Fatherhood: Different Roads, Same Weight

This episode was envisioned before the Special Father’s Day message, but we didn’t have the time to do it justice before Father’s Day! Join the three Brothers as they discuss their experiences growing up with or without a father, and the different paths to fatherhood they’ve experienced. The chat is a juxtaposition of the different experiences they’ve had despite being so close to each other. They walked parallel paths but ended up in the same place. This episode is brought to you by Holver Travel. Get that concierge level service from www.holvertravel.com

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
All right, well, welcome again to our raw and Refine,
the Gentleman's Hour, where we always like to start off
with our beverage as a toast to each other and
to our crowd that's listening as well. Today's topic is fatherhood,
and we thought, what about what's a good drink to
go along with that. So we're going to toast each

(00:28):
other today with the classic the Manhattan, and I'm using
a Maker's mark as my whiskey or bourbon of choice
of course, with the sweet vermouth and bidders to go
along with it. So to my brothers and to our audience,

(00:48):
toast of the Manhattan.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
Yes, I heard the Manhattan with Woodford.

Speaker 3 (00:57):
Ah, there you go, there you go.

Speaker 4 (01:00):
Well, making mine, I'm making mine John with the with
the Jay Henry and sons. This is a Wisconsin straight
bourbon that I'm using with mine.

Speaker 3 (01:10):
Ah.

Speaker 4 (01:11):
It's a five year age bourbon, small batch, quite tasty
brother that also glows. Yeah, it also goes really nicely.
Uh in the honeybourbon bacon salad I get from Jewels,
you know, a slow splash of real bourbon and the
honey bacon bourbon. Her honeybourbon bacon salad brother, I like that.

Speaker 3 (01:36):
I like that. All right, great choice, Great choice, brothers sir.

Speaker 4 (01:40):
So welcome listeners, Thanks again for joining us. We appreciate
y'all listening in. We appreciate y'all telling your people about
the podcast and passing it along. Just last weekend, we
celebrated Father's Day. We put out a special message to
father's on Father's Day because we had you know, we

(02:02):
knew we wanted to have this conversation, but we weren't
going to be able to get it done before Father's Day,
and we didn't want to rush it. You know, it
deserved the time and the consideration and the quality. So
we said, we'll get that message out and then we'll
come back around and have this conversation. So we wanted

(02:23):
to reflect on what fatherhood means. We were looking at
the reality of our friendship, our brotherhood, and how different
really our own paths, our own fatherhood relationships were growing up,
how we are now, how kind of different they are
but still similar in many respects. So we just wanted

(02:47):
to kind of explore that and see how these different
paths that we've all taken parallel in time and parallel
in geography as well as interconnected in terms of the relationship,
but still three individual paths. So where we all kind
of came from and where we're at now. So the

(03:07):
idea was was kind of a It was built on
this juxtaposition of our very different journeys, all still leading
to growth, love and evolving understandings of manhood again because
of that kind of interconnectedness of the three of us.
So we're going to kind of touch on a few

(03:28):
different things. Growing up with a father, growing up without
a father, becoming fathers ourselves or not, and still having fatherhood,
find us what we've learned, what we'd like to pass on,
those kind of things. So that's what we're going to
talk about today. So I think this will be a

(03:48):
pretty interesting conversation. I've been looking forward to it and
knowing these cats for decades, knowing their families, being involved
in their lives, and the interesting kind of realities of
how different our paths are even though they're so connected
to each other.

Speaker 5 (04:07):
Yep, our standing, Yep, let's get this thing rocking. I
think that go ahead, Kay, No, go ahead, go ahead.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
No, I'm just saying that I think this is one
timely because of us hitting it around father's day as well.
But also this is men's health months, so all of
that can play into the conversation. As we discussed this,
and as you said, Rich, it's not just about genetically
who we're associated with, but we also father figures to

(04:41):
others that may not have our same genetic line as well.
So mentoring and just guiding and being present think will
be all part of our conversation today as well. So
I'm like you man, I've been excited about this conversation
as well.

Speaker 4 (04:59):
Awesome.

Speaker 6 (05:00):
Well, you know, for me, I think about, you know,
the fathers that I've had. You know, I think I've
had an embarrassment of riches as it relates to fathers.
I had my stepfather May Rest in Peace, whose home
I grew up in with my mother, and then I
had my biological father who's still here, both with different

(05:24):
kinds of impacts on me, and so having both of
them today and you know, in retrospect, really feels like
I was blessed two totally different personalities, two totally different
perspectives on the world, and I think it helped make
me appreciate just my own lived experience. And so, you know,

(05:48):
my step father from the South, hardworking, took on, you know,
the leadership of a house for me and my brother,
and just really his strength of purpose and willingness to
take on raising us.

Speaker 2 (06:06):
Truly.

Speaker 6 (06:06):
You know, at the time, I didn't fully appreciate it
as a youngster, just was like, who is this guy
marrying my mom?

Speaker 3 (06:13):
Right?

Speaker 6 (06:15):
But he kept us in check and made sure that
despite all of the things that we could have gotten
in trouble for, he helped us steer clear of it.
And so his toughness, his gruffness back then, while they
bothered me, you know, as an adult, I fully understand

(06:36):
it and appreciated. And then on the other hand, my
biological dad, who always thought was the smartest guy in
the room, and you know, he was, you know, sworn
law enforcement officer, so you know, when he'd come pick
me up from work, he'd have on his crisp, you know,
white shirt, and he just cut this image of like

(06:59):
this really smart, sort of urbane man. And so I
found myself sort of wanting to copy him. But also
every day experiencing my stepfather, who you know, just truly
together gave me a really broad perspective on black man,
a broader perspective on what fatherhood could be. And so yeah,

(07:24):
it just you know, it was an interesting time, you know,
as a youngster because my stepfather was kind of tough.
You know, there were times he made me mad, right,
and then you know, my biological father could kind of
be this mythological figure who really was a strong Like
they were just polar opposites in terms of personality. But

(07:48):
I've come to learn and appreciate that it is those
two different types of outlooks and personalities that made having
a step father and a father such a powerful thing
and helpful for me growing up.

Speaker 3 (08:03):
So, yeah, you.

Speaker 4 (08:04):
Had two grown men built in that were in your
corner the whole way. That is exceptional, even though you're
probably in certain moments, mister Robinson wasn't the nicest guy,
but I never saw that side of him. Luckily, he
was always super cool to me, you know, and hey, Richard,
I was like, how you doing? So he was always

(08:25):
super cool, you know, I did get a touch of that.

Speaker 6 (08:28):
No, he just challenged, you know again, and retrospect really
was just challenging us to be disciplined and responsible, and
you know, and you're telling that to a preteen, trying
to teach that to a right regardless, it is a
hard thing to do, right. It made us work. He

(08:49):
made sure that the house was in order before he
got home from work, and man would cook after work
before my mom that like had so wild Again, as
a as a youngster, you didn't fully appreciate those things.
But as I got older, I really began to appreciate
just how extraordinary he was as a father, as a

(09:10):
human being, you know.

Speaker 4 (09:11):
And he had already programmed you at that point. Ye,
so you didn't even use automatic you didn't even think
about it. Now, it's all built in at this point,
outstanding man.

Speaker 1 (09:24):
Yeah, So you know, for me, my journey is a
little bit different. I really didn't grow up with a
father figure in my world. I had my mom and
my grandmother, who of course instilled you know, my values, love, discipline, support,
you know, needs and everything from that standpoint. But you know,

(09:48):
as you grow as a male, you don't you know,
if you don't have that representation or example to try
to help you navigate what it means to be a
male or a man, it's still something that's missing. So
I paid attention a lot to when I was with

(10:09):
you guys and with your families, which you know, is
my family as well, but it helped me to have
some death as to what that means to grow as
a man. And so my biological father is still living,
but I still don't know him very well, and through

(10:30):
the years, I will say that there may have been
circumstances as to why that didn't occur as I became
an adult, I will have to accept some of that
responsibility myself as to why some of that still has
not occurred. But when I turned fifty something came about
that I wanted to try to reconnect with this male

(10:53):
who we share genetics with. And the funny part about
it is that I don't know what to call him
when I'm with him. So I've shared this with you
guys that you know, I don't call him dad. I
don't call them father, I don't call them john.

Speaker 3 (11:12):
You know, it's weird.

Speaker 1 (11:13):
We just have conversation and I don't have quote, a
title or whatever for him as of yet. He has
other children as well and different relationships throughout the way.
As it relates to that, I'm the oldest of the tribe.
So when I had the opportunity to meet him when

(11:34):
I was fifty, and they all knew of me, but
I didn't know of them. After I turned fifty, I
had the opportunity to go see my dad, see my father,
see the man who gave life to me in his hometown.
Decided to visit, and it was there that was able
to connect with some of my siblings that I have,

(11:56):
realizing that I'm the oldest out of the tribe and
they all knew of me, but I didn't know of them,
and that was disturbing, and you know, it's like wow.
But also I knew earlier in life that he did
have another son after me when I was younger, and

(12:21):
he named his son John. So this was something that
I think has probably affected me throughout the years to
know that there's another son with my name, like the
George's and George Foreman's.

Speaker 3 (12:38):
And all of them.

Speaker 1 (12:40):
But for me, I couldn't quite grasp my head around
that and said that, well, I guess I was just
forgotten or let go of or whatever and been replaced
with the new giants. So i've, you know, since, of course,
moved on. And we'll get into a little more about
being fathers or father figure as we continue the conversation,

(13:04):
but to give a little background, Yeah, that's where didn't
quite grow up with a father figure, and it did,
in my mind, affect how I felt I was as
a father.

Speaker 4 (13:18):
Well from the outside looking in, I think, however, it
shaped you. I think you turned out as a great father.
So you took what life gave you, and you learned
some good lessons from it, and you picked up stuff
along the way. And you know, and I'm sure that
a lot of the good stuff did come from your
mom and grandmom too. So put it all together into

(13:39):
a nice package.

Speaker 3 (13:41):
I'll set.

Speaker 4 (13:44):
Got great kids that are doing great things. It's clear
you and Alison did a great job. And see I
threw in Alice in that time too, not like last time. Okay,
you know we had to give the shout outs to
the wives, you know, and and whatnot. Now, But I
guess I had probably the most like what the quote

(14:06):
unquote traditional family setting a mother or father, two point
old kids, right, so that my brother and I we
grew up in a single family home for most of
my childhood. We moved from the West side of Chicago
to Maywood when I was probably five something like that.
Was in that house until I went till I came

(14:28):
home from college. So yeah, two working parents. That whole thing.
My old man has always called him. And interestingly, John,
of course you all know this because you know you
were always there. But I didn't call my father dad
or father. Growing up. His name was Raymond, right, Everybody
called him ray, and so that's what I always heard

(14:50):
people call him. So that's what I called him, you know, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (14:54):
That's true. It used to amaze me.

Speaker 4 (15:00):
My brother and I always called him Ray and never
thought anything about it. He never he you know, he
never corrected us. He never said to call me this
or call me that. I didn't call other people's fathers
by their first name, you know, down the street Mark
his father was mister Taggart or you know, at first
I used to call mister Robinson mister Kelly, you know.

Speaker 3 (15:22):
And he was he was.

Speaker 4 (15:24):
He was super smooth with it.

Speaker 3 (15:25):
Man.

Speaker 4 (15:25):
He did the phase again, you know, we again saying
I never saw the gruff that you experienced. GK, that
was for you. It was necessary. My father in terms
of what kind of father he was, he was a
megalithic superhuman giant in stature. As a child growing up,
I mean, see the effect that I have. I'm about

(15:48):
the same sizees as him. As he was about six
or five, you know, and I see the impact that
I have on little kids. You know, sometimes they're how
big their eyes get when I get close, and they're like, whoa,
look at this giant. So you know, that was the
house I grew up in. Greg You know, your your
biological father, big guy.

Speaker 3 (16:06):
You know when you were.

Speaker 4 (16:06):
Little, that's this big giant dude is you know, picking
you up and carrying you around and teaching you and
doing stuff and all of that kind of stuff. So
he was one difference I think growing up as a shorty.

Speaker 3 (16:19):
He drove.

Speaker 4 (16:20):
He drove trucks. He was a truck driver. He drove
trucks in the Marine. When he was in Vietnam, he
was he drove the big people movers and equipment movers
and all of that kind of stuff. But he loved driving,
and so when we were young, he drove over the road,
so he would be gone for several days in a
row kind of thing. And so he ended up eventually

(16:41):
driving local so that he would be home every night.
And so I know that that probably made life a
little better on moms. She had two boys that were
eleven months apart. I was the younger. There was always
you know, yeah, yeah right, it was always there, you know.
So it was always NonStop energy, you know, pretty much

(17:03):
the same mind growing up, especially getting into stuff. So
you know, there was often that conversation when when my
father first got home from being on the road, you know,
him and the moms would be in the kitchen. She
would be I don't know, fixing them some food or whatever,
or it might be having him a drink, but we
would be eavesdropping in another room because there was that

(17:25):
point where, you know, the conversation shifted to let me
tell you about what they did, you know, and then
there was an old take off. But then a couple
minute later you'd hear ay yo, and that's all he
was saying then, and we'd come scuttle into that room.
You know, we were highly disciplined. And when I say that,

(17:47):
I don't mean that he beat us. I mean that
we were highly disciplined little children. I used to get
teased as a shorty because I didn't slouch, you know,
I basically stood at attention as a shorty because veteran marine.
That's how we that's how we stood, you know, we
stood at pretty much add attention just naturally and grammar

(18:07):
school kids us to teach me, why did you why
do you stand like that? And I'm like, what, that's
just how you stand, you know, right, yeah all the time.
That was just the world that we grew up in.
And it's very disciplined. I mean, when we were out
in public, I've said this story a million times, we
healed like dogs. I'm on one side, my brother's on

(18:28):
the other side. He could have walked around in a
little circle. We'd have been running around him, trying to
stay on that stay on his six You know, just
just how we behaved in public wasn't none of that.
You know, you see how kids act nowadays, you know,
I know, tantrums. I remember, you know, I asked when
I was a teenager, asking my mother did I ever
do something like that? And she was like, you knew better,

(18:49):
you know, No, we didn't. That was it was just
very disciplined, especially in public, but very loving, very emotional dude.
At the career. You got the full spectrum with him
as a surety. So, you know, I think that's something
that's always stuck with me. My view of fatherhood is

(19:10):
definitely built on the foundation that he provided. When I
look at and maybe rightly or wrongly judge other fathers
for how they're doing. He's, for me, the standard. I
think he got it right in many respects. I by
no stretch think of him as perfect. There, of course,
are a number of things that I think he could
have done better or whatever, but when you look at

(19:34):
the full package, he is a standard by which I
measure people's performance as a father. Definitely.

Speaker 2 (19:41):
Well, I'm with you on that.

Speaker 6 (19:43):
Like again, a lot of this is thinking about it
like as an adult at this stage of my life.
But I realize having had you know, my dad and
my stepfather kind of influencing me in different ways at
the same time, sort of gave me, i think, an
appreciation for just how hard it is to raise kids,

(20:06):
for one thing, but also the important.

Speaker 2 (20:09):
Role that moms play. Right.

Speaker 6 (20:13):
And see this notion of you know, not being perfect,
right and understanding that you've got someone there who's sort
of helping you appreciate these people in different ways, right though.
I've found that to be true even in my own

(20:33):
fatherhood journey. Right y'all know, I've been married and you
have kids out of wedlocked separately, but they all kind.

Speaker 2 (20:42):
Of like mesh very well.

Speaker 6 (20:46):
And I think that is a testament to mom right,
whether it's my ex wife or my kids moms right.
It was the courage that they exhibited to say, you know,
we're gonna create. It's not a sort of traditional situation,
traditional family, but it's important that these kids love each other.

(21:11):
It's important that they have some relationship to each other.
And you know, even though I know that wasn't always
the easiest thing for them, much like my mom right,
or much like my father, but it was this blending
thing that while I know it was challenging for people,
it was because of the leadership you know of moms

(21:33):
that made it work, that's making it work, even for
me as a father today. I can only imagine if
it was like mom being like your dad ain't nothing,
or moms being like your daddy ain't nothing right.

Speaker 2 (21:49):
Or just like creating conflict amongst them.

Speaker 6 (21:54):
And I just feel really blessed that I didn't have
that experience, either as a kid or as an adult.
And so the leadership and keeping focused on what matters most,
I think has has made what I think for a
lot of people is challenging, you know, blending families challenging.

Speaker 4 (22:18):
Yeah, you guys, have done a great job of that
seeing it up close in personal all these years, you know,
and it used to amaze me. It stopped amazing me
a while ago. It became you know, just kind of
it's like, okay, but you uh, yeah, it was. It
was really really well executed. But again, you know, having
come from a life of being a family law lawyer

(22:42):
at one point, you know, I did a lot of divorces,
I did a lot of child support, seeing a lot
of baby mama drama up close and seeing how selfish
parents can wreck a kid because of their own using
the child as a pawn, using a child as a
way to get back at the other parent, versus actually

(23:04):
making decisions in the best interest of the children. And
so yeah, definitely you all have done an incredible job
of creating this multi layered, blended family. Being at Morgan's
graduation what about a month or so ago, was just
an incredible example of that. To see that in action.

(23:26):
We took a lot of great pictures and seeing how
all of For me, the coolest part was watching Miles
dote on all of his sisters. You know, Miles is
the oldest, the only boy, and he's got this group
of beautiful sisters of all ages, and they just love

(23:47):
him so much. It's just so cool to see. And
you you know, somebody that if somebody you know, walking
up and just not knowing, would just be like, Okay,
well this is just a really cool family. You know,
you might think this is just the way the siblings
love each other. You might just walk up and think
it's a traditional family, not knowing that there's more than

(24:10):
one mom involved here. The way that they interact with
each other is just such a just so cool you know.

Speaker 6 (24:17):
And I think again, the key for all of it
is the mom. As much as we talk about fatherhood,
we have our roles and and all that, I don't
think you can talk about fatherhood without talking about motherhood.

Speaker 4 (24:32):
Right, Well, it's supposed to be two halves, right, it's
supposed to it's supposed to be. It's supposed to be
two halves operating together in whatever form that turns out
to be, you know, using you as that example, but
still so it's those those two halves working together as
opposed to, you know, work against each other that creates that.

Speaker 1 (24:53):
So part of our continuation of this conversation is how
do we feel, well, we've become as fathers in our
current situations. And Greg, you already kind of touched a
little bit on it, but I know you probably have
more on it as well.

Speaker 3 (25:09):
For us.

Speaker 1 (25:10):
Allison is an attorney and she is currently sociadean of Diversity,
equity and Inclusion at a law school in North Carolina.

Speaker 3 (25:20):
And I agree with the Greg.

Speaker 1 (25:22):
You know, it's the moms have a tremendous impact on
how we do, even as fathers, how we raise our
children as well. I mean, I definitely feel they're.

Speaker 3 (25:37):
The soul of the family in my opinion.

Speaker 1 (25:40):
You know, we may be the backbone of that, but
I think that the soul of it comes through them
as well. And you know, part of it, and I
want to touch on this a little bit, brus is
that you know, there's no innate understanding of being a father.

(26:02):
You know, it's I think that there has to be
some what's the term I'm looking for, some some education,
some guidance. I'm losing the term that I think I
want to say, but there has to be something there
to help have an understanding of how to approach fatherhood

(26:25):
with Allison.

Speaker 4 (26:26):
You know, society, you know, there should be some some socialization,
maybe write some tradition, some some sort of basic indoctrination
that should be getting passed along, you know, right right,
because like you said, it's not automatic, it's not built
in and instinct around parenting. You know, women got ninety

(26:48):
eight percent of the whatever was in the bucket, ninety
eight percent of it went to women, in two percent
of the instinct went to men, right right.

Speaker 3 (26:57):
Right right. I agree with that.

Speaker 1 (27:00):
And so with me being a physician, of course, as
folks kind of look at the outside of our of
our family dynamics. You know, we've been referred to as
the Huxtables, you know, given the reference of the Cosmy
Days type deal, and it's.

Speaker 3 (27:22):
Yeah, we got we got our dynamics.

Speaker 1 (27:25):
So that so it's interesting, it's wonderful. I mean, you know,
I've got two amazing kids and they're adults, their adult team,
they're doing absolutely great. But coming up, it was hard
to understand how to be effective in their lives for me,

(27:49):
so because I just didn't have that understanding of what
is my role as dad, you know, social socially, it
would be the disciplinarian, the provider, you know, type of situation.
But I felt there was more to that. You know,
I thought there was more to you know, playing the

(28:09):
games and teaching my kids' sports or you know, sitting
at the tea party set with with my daughter, you know,
and things of that nature. But I always felt like
I wasn't the best father that I probably in my
mind thought I should have been. And I don't know
what that is except probably putting my own perception of

(28:33):
what I wanted to have as a father growing up
and if I was providing that for my children. And
I think Allison has always been an amazing support of
me and saying you know that, yes, you've done You've
done great, you know, as father to them and my
children as well. But I don't know what that is

(28:53):
about me and why I keep having this gap or
hole or just just still not feeling like, you know,
did I did I do a good job? But you know, again,
they're grown, they're they're doing fine, and I think that's
all that I can, you know, at least say, you know,
thank you Lord for is that you know that Guidens

(29:14):
helped me to help instilling them values and love and
support and being independent and you know, but knowing that
they still have us as their safety debt, so to speak,
you know, if they ever need us as well. So
you know this thing called father, it is amazing man.
That's you know, you have lives that you're taking care
of throughout and then you got to let them go.

Speaker 3 (29:36):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (29:38):
They become your focus, they become your responsibility. Don't let
anybody you know hurt them or do anything against them,
because then you know that enter rage or spirit or
whatever comes out that you may not even known you had.
You know, So if something affects your children, that that
that takes on a whole nother level with you as

(30:00):
well as a father. And then when it's time to
be a disciplinarian again, I didn't my disciplinarian was was
I'll say my grandmother. My mom did, okay, but really
I think it was my grandmother that I was my disciplinarian.
So I was taken from what she provided to me

(30:21):
as to how do you discipline kids?

Speaker 3 (30:23):
You know, And yet.

Speaker 1 (30:25):
Again societal impression may have been, well, maybe I'm not
quite doing that the way a father is supposed to
do it, but that's that's the only way I know
how to do.

Speaker 3 (30:37):
It, type deal.

Speaker 1 (30:38):
So, but a lot to that, yeah, a lot of
that brother's a lot to that.

Speaker 6 (30:42):
So, yeah, that's an interesting way you've framed this question
of you, did you do a good job or not?
And I don't I don't have an answer, Like there's
a way in which I said I focused a lot
on what the my fathers were, Like, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (31:02):
If I've done a good job or not.

Speaker 6 (31:05):
You know, I don't know, and I don't even know
if I'm the person to even make that judgment, right.
I know there are a lot of ways that I
know I could have done better. I can continue to
do better, right, But you know, when people say you've
done it good and I'm like, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (31:22):
We'll see.

Speaker 6 (31:23):
That's kind of like we'll see how things turn out.
And you know, get there are things that you just
don't control. You get really lucky sometimes, you get really
blessed sometimes, and so this notion of feeling whether you
were whether you did a good job or not, it's
something that I know that I wrestle with even now,

(31:45):
even as my kids are you know, they all are
doing really well and so forth. So it's an ongoing
challenge to think through and worry about.

Speaker 2 (31:55):
And you know, I will.

Speaker 4 (31:56):
Say, let me close this up for you both, all right, right,
so you can get over this mess, all right, But
I say this, no, no, no, seriously, just quickly, there's
objective given subjective perspectives right on just about everything. And
so even me saying this is right because it's going
to be clear that I'm just you know, there's some

(32:18):
subjectivity because of our relationship, right, but looking at things objectively,
No serial killer children, No, no, seriously, You've got you know,
you've got well educated, well adjusted, good people, right when
you look at your when you look at your children. Yea,
even even in the case of you, Greg, you're your

(32:40):
youngest is just she has the ability to melt hearts instantaneously, right,
but she doesn't use her powers for evil, right, you know,
she's she's a very cool, cool person too as a
little kid, So you know, I mean that's you know,
like again, part of that definitely goes to the moms.

(33:01):
But you are the You are the father for all
of them, and all of them you can see you
in right, same with you, John, not just in both
cases for both of you. Not just because physically it's
clearly genetically that these are your your spawn, right, No, seriously,
they look like you in some way, they act like

(33:21):
you in some way. But all of that, we know
that part of our personality is genetic. So that part
of it is, you know, you're because of you, and
then the part that's not genetic is also in part
because of you, because of what you've been doing, right,
and in both cases, what you're still doing. It's not
like they became adults and you might have shipped them

(33:43):
out of your house physically, but that's the only part
that's changed. And even then they still come back, right,
They're always there. They just have more places to go now,
you know, because they've got your place in their place.

Speaker 3 (33:57):
Right, you know.

Speaker 4 (33:58):
But you and so, But objectively you're doing a great job.
So you say that, I'll say that, and y'all use
it for whatever, or you might just say okay, thanks,
and still I reread about it.

Speaker 6 (34:10):
You know, I appreciate that, I think partly because it's
a job never done.

Speaker 2 (34:15):
You don't know, it's an ongoing thing.

Speaker 3 (34:18):
Well.

Speaker 6 (34:18):
One of the funny things that I've observed about myself
in parenthood is that growing up, I always wanted to
make my mom proud. I wanted to make my parents
proud of me. But there was a moment in which
I realized that I also wanted my kids to be

(34:41):
proud of me. And it's like this, this funny thing
that happened once for Miles set something and he was like, man,
I didn't know this about you, and and it makes
me proud of you.

Speaker 1 (34:54):
Man.

Speaker 3 (34:54):
That was like that.

Speaker 6 (34:56):
That was fairly within the last few years or so.
And so that transition from being a son who wants
to make his parents proud to being a father where
he wants your kids to be proud of you. Man.

Speaker 4 (35:11):
Wow, I've got to jump in on that, because that
made me think about something, Greg. That made me think
about my father's funeral and me being proud of him,
I guess much in the way that you're talking about,
but the level of pride I felt for him on
that day because on that day, learning about all of

(35:32):
the other people's lives that he touched that I knew
nothing about. You know, there's this guy he's been My
father's been gone since twenty ten now, so fifteen years.
There's this guy out here that this white man that
I see on occasion because he's still My father was
the village clerk out here. So this guy is still

(35:53):
in government. Fifteen years later, whenever I see him, because
it's only maybe once a year where I see him,
he breaks down in tears because you know, I'll still
because I look like my father, So you know, I
remind him of my father whenever I see him. And
fifteen years later, he just tears up every time he

(36:14):
sees me.

Speaker 3 (36:15):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (36:16):
Yeah, Wow, it's powerful.

Speaker 2 (36:20):
Impact impact.

Speaker 4 (36:24):
So GK, what did you learn from navigating blended family life?

Speaker 3 (36:28):
Yeah?

Speaker 6 (36:29):
I think, as I mentioned earlier, I think leadership is
really important, right, And it doesn't matter if if it's
dad or my like, you've got to have people who
are committed to the broader project of raising you know, healthy,
happy kids, right, redefining what even family means, right, That

(36:55):
kind of leadership is really important. None of us are
perfect's parents, and so having this understanding that you know,
dude ain't perfect. I'm not perfect, but we still have
this project that we have to complete together and if
we can do it with as little acrimony as possible,

(37:17):
and even when dad ain't being the best dad, you know,
give them a pass here and there. I just think
all of that is important and recognizing that it really
is a team effort that includes you know, grandparents, you
know that includes friends. You know, this whole notion of

(37:38):
you know, taking a village to raise a child is
critical to all of it. None of us do it
by ourselves. Those are the kinds of things that.

Speaker 3 (37:47):
I that I have learned.

Speaker 6 (37:49):
It might not look like one family's sort of understanding
traditional family, but you can create a reality that hopefully
kids will benefit from when they see the love that
everyone has with them.

Speaker 2 (38:06):
So, you know, those are the kinds of lessons that
I've learned.

Speaker 6 (38:10):
And ultimately it's about the grown ups involved sort of
keeping their eyes on the prize and the type of
leadership that they would provide, you know, for their family
and the kids.

Speaker 3 (38:22):
Yeah, I agree with you on that one too. GK.

Speaker 1 (38:25):
I think that it's Yeah, we may be quoting our
feelings as to what that is, but I think that
you said something about how your kids respond to you,
I think is truly powerful and that I think that's
the marker of how you've done, you know what I'm saying,
or how we've done. We may still have our feelings

(38:48):
about what that look like or whatever, but seeing them,
seeing how they've become, how they love, respect, honor, appreciate
all that we've done in their lives as well, and
you know, in some way even how others have perceived that.
You know, I'll come up across people they're the old teachers,

(39:08):
some whatever, and they would just speak to how, you know,
how well they were and how they did when you're
not around, And I think that that just speaks to, hey,
I guess we are doing something right, you know what
I'm saying. It may be a little different in the
home that we may see, but you know, outside of that,
they're they're growing and grown to be amazing individuals, man,

(39:32):
And I'm just so proud of them. And like you said,
to hear that they're proud of you, it is it
does hit a.

Speaker 3 (39:39):
Little different, and I totally agree with you on that.

Speaker 4 (39:43):
So, you know, this notion of traditional, I think that term,
you know, I brought it up about myself being the
one that probably had the quote unquote most traditional family
setting growing up. But this word tradition, I think is
probably that root part of it is is really important
irrespective of the type of household you create or you

(40:05):
create your own traditions, you create your own ways of
looking at things, right, Because like you were, saying earlier, John,
there really is no user's guide, no manual on fatherhood
or parenthood. Everybody's making it up a little bit and
might be talking to other people. They might, but a
lot of it is fortunately, unfortunately this notion of you know,
this is what was done to me, this is how

(40:27):
I was raised. So I'm won't take that and do
that or take parts of it, or sometimes the way
I was raised really really was I'm going to do
the exact opposite because I didn't like that at all
or whatever.

Speaker 3 (40:39):
You know.

Speaker 4 (40:40):
So but it still means that that way impacted you
in some way. It's still shaped you one way or another.
So I'm on and obviously you all know this. This
is my I'm currently on my second marriage. Both of
my marriages were without children. Later on in life, I
was adopted by one of my students or one of
my students, so she adopted me, she claimed me, And

(41:05):
we were texting about it the other day and she
laughed because she said, yeah, I didn't even give you
a choice in the matter, you know.

Speaker 3 (41:16):
Right now.

Speaker 4 (41:16):
It wasn't like she asked me, did I want to be?
You know, it just you know, she just claimed me.
One day you know, she just started calling me daddy.
And this was while she was still a student, and
she would tell other students that I was her father
and just be ca't it just stuck? So and so
I became an instant grandfather as a result of that,

(41:38):
because she had her first child very young, and then
she had her second child while she was a student
in college.

Speaker 3 (41:45):
That was me.

Speaker 4 (41:45):
So I became an instant grandfather. So I'm a grandfather
of four as a result of that. Now, you know,
she had three girls, an ace most recently her youngest boy.
So that different obviously different experience there, you know, wasn't
my biological child. I guess I've been a father figure
to quite a number. You know, I've got a lot

(42:07):
of former students that I call nephew that called me
uncle because of that. I guess that father figure role
that I took on as a result of connecting with
my students. I think though, in terms of what I
learned as a result of that, I think, I don't know.
I think that you know, it didn't change me as
a person. That was just opportunities for me to share

(42:31):
what was already in me with more people or with
other people. So we've kind of been talking about unconditional love,
this notion of legacy, of acceptance. I think all of
those things were already baked in there because of the
setting in which I was raised, the example that my
father said, I think in terms of what it means

(42:51):
to be a father, to be a dad, I'm experiencing
now the part that you guys are experiencing in that
it's an ongoing thing, a forever thing. You know, it's
a it's an evolving relationship, I think because now you're
dealing with the adult children versus well John and I are.

(43:12):
You know, Greg's got the full spectrum, right right. You know,
Greg got Greg got two adults, a teen and and
what is it it's toddler or though I mean shorty

(43:34):
two adults a tea that it's shorty there that we
will say, So, you know, you got that full spectrum.
But no, I remember and enjoy and obviously still I'm
blessed to now still have the relationship with my mom.
She's still here, she's you know, all the three of
us got moms in the seventies. The adult relationship that
we have with our parents, I think it's cool. I

(43:55):
really enjoyed the adult relationship I had with my father
before where he passed. That was the coolest part obviously
of our relationship, you know, Yet there were a lot
of days that I didn't like him growing up, you know,
especially from a disciplinarian standpoint. You know, dude had big hands,
you know, you see, I mean, my hands look exactly

(44:16):
like my father's hands, except for his were a whole
lot bigger. Those teenage years were challenging, but you know,
looking back in retrospect, I appreciate everything that he did.
You know, we had those conversations as adults. He would
talk about how my neighbor would say to him, you know,
why are you so hard on those boys? And his
response was because life is gonna be even harder. He

(44:38):
was creating men, he was building me in. We didn't
know that. We didn't have conversations. There was enough just
so you understand why I'm doing this. That conversation never happened.
But as you get old, you come to understand why
that happened, as life starts to happen and you and
then you realize, just like you know, if you're thinking
those in terms of sports adage, right, muscle memory, right,

(45:01):
this stuff automatically kicks in. I haven't done this for
a while, but my body still remembers how to do it,
and in some respects that's how I've responded in life
because of the training that he embedded in us. As
short as you don't things like perseverance and whatnot, the
ability to continue through some of life's challenges is second nature,

(45:22):
right because the examples he said, the way he pushed
us coming up, and then frankly, the fact that I
have never feared another man a day on this earth
because of the training that he instilled in us from
early one. The only man I ever feared at any
point was him. Yeah you know, so you know, go ahead.

Speaker 6 (45:45):
Things To me is just all of the sort of
obstruct by what you were saying. Like I sat down
and had like specific conversations with like either my stepfather
or my dad about things, but it was like these
unspoken sort of rules and ways in which I operate

(46:06):
and operate.

Speaker 4 (46:07):
They was missed. They were missing Miyagi and us, and
we had for real, like wax found wax Off. You
had no idea.

Speaker 2 (46:15):
I didn't see him every day, like I didn't see
him about it.

Speaker 6 (46:18):
But just so many things everything from like, you know,
I love cars, right, that's my dad. I love certain
kinds of music, my dad like it just it became
there's like a programming that happened.

Speaker 2 (46:33):
That's wild.

Speaker 6 (46:34):
That didn't It wasn't like you sat down and had
conversations about it. You just it just somehow, through osmosis
or something, just became who you are, you know.

Speaker 3 (46:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:44):
To add to that that that brings up something kind
of interesting. So when I've reconnected with my father, you know,
we're talking about some things, and one of the things
he brought up was you remember going to the to
the movies and seeing the martial arts, the kung fu movies,
and you guys know, you know I love kung fu.

(47:06):
I love martial arts. I practice it as well. And
you know, just never I think ever put that into
a perspective as to where did that kind of really
come from.

Speaker 3 (47:18):
And when he mentioned that, he's like.

Speaker 1 (47:20):
Yeah, I used to sit up there and I drive
you over to the movie theaters. We got to see
a kung fu flick and stuff like that. Be like,
oh my gosh, okay, then that's where you know, I
guess holding on to something that I didn't realize I
was holding on to as well, so that that's some
truth right there, though, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (47:41):
How stuff gets instilled in it.

Speaker 1 (47:43):
And then Richard, you were bringing on something that I
think I wanted to touch on a little bit as well,
and that is you have been truly a guiding force
to a lot of folks. And you know, for some
that'll be you know, considered father like activities. For others,
it's mentoring, you know, and things of that nature. Being
the uncle, all of those are impactfully impacting our youth.

Speaker 2 (48:08):
You know.

Speaker 1 (48:09):
One of the things I mentioned was that, you know,
it's just how much impact we're able to provide, hopefully
in a positive manner versus you know, a negative manner
to those that are younger than us in most cases
as well. Say that for me, because of my perception
of fatherhood, you know, coming up, I never felt like

(48:29):
I could be a mentor to anybody because I'm still
trying to figure out how do I father my kids,
you know, before I try to mentor somebody, you know,
somebody else. And as I've grown and matured or whatever,
I've had a few mentors mentees rather that you know, again,
they're doing, they're doing amazing ones of interventional cardiologists. The

(48:53):
other one is a hospitalist, you know. And I was
taking care of them grade school and high school and
stuff coming up and not to see you know, what
they've done as well. So, you know, we just never
know how much we can truly have influence, how we
could impact others in their journey and whatever that is
that they needed that we were able to.

Speaker 3 (49:15):
Provide for them.

Speaker 1 (49:17):
And I think that fatherhood is is it helped me
to understand that fatherhood is more than just a genetic connection,
you know as well. And I think from UGK having
the influence of mister Robertson and and your dad just
shows that as well, that it doesn't have to be
that genetic connection in your life, that that gives you

(49:38):
those guiding principles, you know, that that we grow with
and needs.

Speaker 3 (49:42):
So you.

Speaker 4 (49:45):
Idiots who are genetic fathers, right, biological fathers, right, it's
that you so truth you.

Speaker 3 (49:57):
Yeah, it's gonna be you're that is for sure.

Speaker 4 (50:09):
So I'm gonna you know, I'm gonna hit you. I'm
gonna hit you guys with some questions here, the big questions.
All right, Greg, how do you show up for people
in your life who need you to be steady, strong
and soft at the same time.

Speaker 6 (50:23):
Wow, I think I think that the big questions. I
think that's one of the things I wrestle with all
the time. Even beyond sort of being a father, there's
a there's a way in which I'm my mom's son,
and that's that impath, right, the person who takes on

(50:45):
people's stuff, and it's it's very challenging, but it does
require you to be strong. It requires you to be steady,
a bit sometimes a bit more self assured than you
really are yourself. You have to at least appear to
have a sense of what you're doing, even if you're
questioning yourself, which I do all the time. And so

(51:08):
you know, I think there's a way in which how
that is very much how fatherhood is. Like I don't
pretend to have all the answers to things, and I
like to get lots of information, lots of opinions from other.

Speaker 2 (51:22):
People, but a lot of it is just flat out.

Speaker 6 (51:25):
Instinct and you know what you think is right in
a particular moment, but also trying to be empathetic and
you know, slow down. That's the other thing I do
is I try to slow down and try not to
rush when it's a complicated situation, take my time, but
also get as much feedback from others as I can.

(51:48):
And then once I've got the information that I think
I need and you just gotta just got to move
and make make decisions, make calls.

Speaker 4 (51:55):
You know. Cool, good answer? All right, John, I'm gona
hit you with a different one, I think like this one.
It's another one of the big questions. You know, you've
talked a little bit about this already, but what does
fatherhood mean to you today? But specifically not just the
role of fatherhood, because you've talked about that a bit already,
but in the energy of it, the energy of fatherhood.

(52:17):
What does that mean to you today? What's the energy?

Speaker 1 (52:19):
Like, Yeah, that's a great question, Rich. I think the
energy comes in different forms.

Speaker 3 (52:27):
It can be.

Speaker 1 (52:27):
Exciting, it could be draining, it can be uplifting. It's
just a matter of being present, and it's that presence
at the time of when it's needed.

Speaker 3 (52:44):
So some of the.

Speaker 1 (52:45):
Excitement is of course, you know, I've got my daughter
who's completed her chief residency year and get ready to
start her fellowship coming up, and you know, just so
excited and proud about all that that's happening. The draining
is both my daughter and my son have recently moved
from their locations to new locations, and it's that takes

(53:08):
a lot of energy to you know, to try to
help them, but you're also trying not to tell them
how to do it, and you're trying to let them
make some of those decisions on their own. But yet
and still they do, you know, kind of want some
of your input on some things as well. So how
do you know navigating that part of it and then

(53:29):
just just seeing how both of them are accomplished you know,
adulting as we put it, and life is lifing type deal,
and that's that's the uplift you know that I get
get from that as well too. So I think just
to say, you know, the energy of it is all
about the presence that we're you know, that we have

(53:51):
with that and and again I talk about my children specifically,
but even with those that that you you know, are
mentoring or have tivity in their lives with us about presence.
It's about how we show up and you know how
they are receiving that as well.

Speaker 4 (54:06):
Excellent. Okay, one more question, GK, and this one actually
we're all it's for all of us. But GK is
going to start us off. What do you hope your
kids or you know, in my case grandkids too, and
you all eventually will get there. But what what do
you hope your kids or grandkids will remember most about
how you loved them? Wow? What what do you hope

(54:32):
that your kids will remember most about how you loved them?

Speaker 2 (54:37):
I hope it's somewhat.

Speaker 6 (54:38):
I think John got at it a little bit, and
it's this notion that he let us make our decisions.
He didn't try to micromanage or dictate, but was able
to put us in position to succeed. And when needed,
he was there right when doing too much, trying to

(55:01):
do too much, but he did enough to where when needed,
I knew he'd be there. I knew he loved me.
He didn't make sort of unilateral decisions for me unless
he saw me going down the wrong path. And you know, yeah,
that freedom, right, He gave me the freedom to be
who I am. And I'm hoping I'm hoping that they

(55:23):
come away, come away with that, you know, and then
and that that was really how he demonstrated love.

Speaker 4 (55:33):
You know, that's cool.

Speaker 1 (55:36):
Well, put gk well put brother well put yep. I
would say pretty pretty similar as a matter of that,
they know not that I just love them, support them
and whatever you know they're doing in life, but we
meaning Alison myself, will always be there for them yet

(55:56):
they need but they understand that this is now their
life that they have to live it.

Speaker 3 (56:02):
They're going to have the falls, they're going to have
the highs, but they have to navigate through it.

Speaker 1 (56:07):
But I hope that through what we've been able to
instill in them, that they'll be able to get through
that and know that all that we've done was for
them to be successful, to know that they have been
nothing but love through this process. But we're always going
to be there for them as well. And I think

(56:29):
that if they grow old and God will and they
will and can look back at, you know, how we
were impact in their lives and how they became.

Speaker 3 (56:40):
You know.

Speaker 1 (56:40):
That's all I can ask is that they always knew
that they were loved, respected, encouraged and supported.

Speaker 6 (56:48):
Man.

Speaker 1 (56:49):
I try to tell them that all the time and
appreciate them. I've tell them how much I appreciate them
so much as well, and I just hope that that's
something that they will always you know, know and feel.

Speaker 4 (57:01):
You can start off by saying that I think, you know,
that's one of the things that I appreciated most about
my parents looking back on it is what you were
talking about, is this notion of raising whole people that
you're looking at them and saying, this is your life
and you need to make these decisions. And for most
of my life, I've felt like my parents have allowed

(57:25):
me to navigate the path. It's my path for so
many things, and I think that's important and not really
Germaine as much to my circumstance because my daughter I
got her as an adult, so a lot of that
foundational stuff I had nothing to do with. But in
terms of what I hope she remembers most about how

(57:47):
I love her is the right now to being present,
like you said, John, helping as much as I can,
to not really guide her, because like I said, her
path has already been well established that she's putting it along.
But you know, I want her always to know that
she's got one hundred percent support, unconditional love and support
over here. And you know, I'll run through a brick

(58:09):
wall for her or my grandbabies in a heartbeat, but
just that as much support that I can come up
with however they needed, in whatever form of fashion. That
is just helping them navigate this world. Because I think
she's a great mother and I'm so proud of what
she's been doing as a single mom. What is probably
for you to the most hard one lesson you wish

(58:32):
you had learned earlier about fatherhood. You all can't see
them out there, but both of them sat back. They
both sat back and with the ponder pos you know,
they both did.

Speaker 3 (58:50):
Oh bad.

Speaker 1 (58:51):
I think it's knowing that there's no right answer to
being a father. I think that recognize that you're not
gonna be perfect with it all the time. I think
knowing that they're gonna be challenges, there's gonna be some hardships,
there's gonna be some I don't like you, you.

Speaker 3 (59:11):
Know, why are you in my life type deal? But
you know, being.

Speaker 1 (59:16):
Able to say, hey, that's okay, but I am and
I'm here for a reason, and i'd love you regardless
of what you may be feeling at this moment as well.
And I'm still going to love you regardless of that
as well, and I'm still going to help guide you

(59:36):
and support you. So I think just being okay with
Greg said earlier, not being you know, top dad, you
know all the time. I mean, just we can't be
sometimes we have to be that person that they don't
want to hear.

Speaker 5 (59:52):
Or that.

Speaker 3 (59:54):
Yeah, exactly exactly showing up.

Speaker 4 (59:58):
They're not supposed to be be with you all the time,
right and if they're happy with you all the time.

Speaker 1 (01:00:05):
As a father, and I think that's it right there,
you know, showing up at the dates that they weren't
expecting to see you at, you know, type D but
you showed up. And that's the lasting effect that I
think that they'll have is that, hey, I may have
been doing some things and maybe I wasn't right, but

(01:00:27):
he was always there, you know, regardless of that as well.

Speaker 6 (01:00:31):
So I could listen a whole bunch of things. But
the broader thing I would say is not always being
like aware of impact and you know, you know, obviously
getting a divorce for Miles, you know, Miles, he was

(01:00:51):
the oldest, right, and not really being aware of how
that impacted him, right, like, seriously I did. Wasn't something
that you thought much about, you knew sort of you
know intellectually, you know, dad's no longer with mom. That's
an impact, right when not fully understanding the impact of

(01:01:16):
something like that, particularly as he was growing up, and
just sort of being surprised that it because you know,
he's always been the.

Speaker 2 (01:01:24):
Most resilient kid. You didn't seem like it. But I'll never.

Speaker 6 (01:01:28):
Forget, he wrote, you know, he's all as to always write,
and he wrote some paper in school talking about what
it felt like for him, you know, dealing with a divorce,
and you know, to have read that was a big
eye opener for me. I would have never thought it

(01:01:50):
impacted him like it did. Right, So you know, there
are things like that that you know when you're going
through it, you don't necessarily know or aren't necessarily aware
of the impact. But if I was more conscious and
aware of the impact, perhaps things would have There are
things that might have been done differently.

Speaker 2 (01:02:10):
But it was the knowledge of understanding that impact. I
think that made.

Speaker 6 (01:02:15):
Us all closer in the long long run, because there
were some missteps and then but then I think it
was like the call go out, everybody shows up, and
but again you don't necessarily know. Oh, you're not always
aware of the impact of the decisions that that you
were making with your kids, but it shows up eventually,

(01:02:36):
you know.

Speaker 4 (01:02:37):
Right right, Wow, Okay, last thing I'm saying. Hand this
off to John real quick.

Speaker 7 (01:02:44):
Actually go ahead, John. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:02:51):
I was like, all right, well.

Speaker 1 (01:02:59):
This is It's definitely been a great conversation as to
our perspective on fatherhood. We understand that everybody's experience is
going to be their experience, and we just hope that
our willingness to share our experience hopefully helped you you

(01:03:20):
listen to this podcast as well. I will say for
me and each one please say for you as well,
but I am blessed to have the opportunity to be
a father and to be a father figure to people. Again,
I think for me not feeling like I had that

(01:03:41):
experience growing up, I do, however, feel that I've had
an impact for those that are come behind me, and
I'm thankful for that.

Speaker 3 (01:03:52):
I give God thanks for that every day. And I think.

Speaker 1 (01:03:57):
Alison, my mom, grandmother, for all being there with me
as we continue through this journey.

Speaker 3 (01:04:05):
As well, I'll jump in.

Speaker 4 (01:04:07):
I'll say that the example that my father said for
me is probably what has made me want to be
that role, to play that role, that father role, that
father figure role, that mentor that uncle, because I feel
like I was blessed with someone who gave me a lot,

(01:04:28):
and you know, so I want to give in that
in that same manner. I guess it's so for me,
having the opportunity to do this in this way now
just really fortunate, Just so proud of again of her
and the person that that she is and having the
opportunity to somehow contribute to what she's doing and becoming

(01:04:52):
in the world, is you know, a blessing for me.
It doesn't always show up in the same way like
you said, it's it's always a very individual thing. But
however it shows up, it's an opportunity for us to
do something great beyond ourselves, you know, so I appreciate

(01:05:12):
the fact that I get to Did I get to
do this now?

Speaker 6 (01:05:17):
Well, for me, it is keeping in mind that it's
an ongoing process, and not just because I have younger ones,
but even with my older ones, it's always like what
what could I do better? What should I be doing better?
How can how can I be helpful? What do I
need to be doing? And that's you know, it's always

(01:05:42):
in your mind. Am I doing the best I can do?
And what what actually would be being my best actually
be and so so it's again it's a constant challenging
of oneself. It's become so much more emotional, cotton hold
turner like everything. Which, by the way, I have to

(01:06:04):
say about my stepfather that that gruff man back in
the day, by the time he was older, little things
would would make him emotional, right, Like to see I
think us, my siblings and I sort of develop and
grow and progress made him emotional, right.

Speaker 4 (01:06:26):
That's that's funny, man. I was talking to my wife
the other day about the fact that one of the
things I miss about my father from our adult relationship,
this former Vietnam veteran marine, this big dude. Whenever I
would see him, you know later in life, he would
always hug me and kiss me. And so you know,
I used to always say, you know, I always I
encourage fathers to kiss their sons. It's it just, you know,

(01:06:50):
that was it just it was a great moment every
time that it happened, just because you know, as this
was when I'm you know, I'm thirty five, you know,
not when I'm eighteen, when I.

Speaker 6 (01:07:07):
I don't know what, like my dad to this day,
like I see him and it's like you can feel
the emotion just when just like just a hug get,
like your dad. My dad's a Vietnam veteran, right, My
mom's the impath. My dad, you know, not so much
an impath, right, but.

Speaker 3 (01:07:26):
Was he was mom.

Speaker 4 (01:07:29):
Stoic Yeah mm hmmm.

Speaker 2 (01:07:33):
See that plan out.

Speaker 6 (01:07:35):
And nowadays it's just been been really fascinating because I
find myself being even more emotional with my kids.

Speaker 4 (01:07:46):
Do it whether they seem like they wanted in that
moment or not.

Speaker 3 (01:07:49):
Do it, Yeah, appreciated later and I do. Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:07:56):
I want to give a little shout out to my
father in law though I've been you know, knowing him
for thirty five years and yes, yes, yes, so he
you know, he has been impactful for me as well
when it comes to, you know, seeing how he's done
with his kids and our and his grandkids, you know,

(01:08:18):
and and just using that has been an example for me,
you know as well. So I didn't want to go
through without acknowledging that, Yes, he has been an impact
and I love him for it.

Speaker 3 (01:08:34):
And his dad to me is you.

Speaker 1 (01:08:37):
Know now as well and always there, always shows up
for everybody, and it gives me that perspective.

Speaker 3 (01:08:45):
And I'm thankful for that as well.

Speaker 1 (01:08:47):
So given that, I will say, as we can see,
there is some complexity to this.

Speaker 3 (01:08:53):
Thing we call fatherhood.

Speaker 1 (01:08:55):
Okay, it does not always arrive the way we affected too,
and that's okay. That's what makes life interesting, that is
what makes it fun and enjoyable and spontaneous all as one.
But when it does show up, you know, either in
a child, in a relationship, or even within our communities,

(01:09:18):
it asks us to grow in ways we could never
imagine and embrace it, be gracious in it, give yourself
space in that, and let us make sure that we
are presentented. So, with that again being said, we want
to thank our listeners for being a part of this

(01:09:39):
with us. Please reflect on what has been said and
reflect on your own thoughts and feelings as relates to
fatherhood as well, and have that conversation. Have that conversation
with those that you feel you've been a father figure
two in your lives and just get their impression of
how that is that just showing up. We'd love to

(01:09:59):
hear your we'd love to hear what you were able
to learn from that as well. And as always, please
like please, subscribe, and please share with those that you
think could benefit from this as well. And we again
we appreciate you, and we thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:10:18):
Take care, everybody, Thanks everybody,