June 14, 2025 • 60 mins
In this episode, John and Rich talked about diabetes and mental health. John is a doctor, they are both diabetics, and they shared their perspectives on living with the condition, as well as John’s perspective on treating diabetics as well. Everything is focused on the impact the condition can have on mental health. This episode is brought to you by www.holvertravel.com
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to Raw and Refine, the Gentleman's Hour, where we're
going to have conversation with middle aged black men about
what's going on. We welcome you to listen, comment and like,
and hopefully encourage others to join for future conversations as well.
We always like to start off with a toast, and
(00:28):
with that toast, it's because we are gentlemen and we
do it.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Raw and Refine.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
So John, talk about our beverage.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Man, oh man, we have got for the getting ready
for summer. We're not quite there yet. Now it's almost
coming though, we're starting to get ready. And for this one,
I went ahead with a strawberry MARGUERITEA nice man and nice.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Yeah, because John put it out there he said that
our mandate was a margarita or some sort of tropical beverage.
So I said, you going with a margarita. I'm rolling
with a margarita as well. Now mine is not strawberry.
I went with a pineapple margarita.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
There you go, there you go, there you go join
that beverage.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
So for today it's just John and I GK. Got
a lot going on at this moment, but we want
to stick to our as close as we can to
our normal cadence. So we had to roll on without
Greg today. So today this one is gonna tie in.
This is June, which is Men's Men's Mental Health Month,
(01:43):
So this particular topic today is not strictly a mental
health one, but it's tied to mental health, and that
what we're talking about today is something that we both
live with every single day, type two diabetes. It's something
that doesn't get talked about enough, and especially it's the
mental health told that diabetes takes on not just those
(02:06):
who deal with it, but their families and friends. And
you know, I know all my friends know all about
me being a diabetic and the things that I deal
with because my real friends we talk and they are
actually interested in me enough to want to hear me
complain about some things. But this is a condition that
is common among black men. It's a condition that's common
among Americans, right, and we're talking about Black American men
(02:29):
predominantly on this show. But if we got listeners anywhere,
that's cool. Then diabetes is common in general, especially in America,
and so therefore its prevalence exists among black men. Their
emotional and psychological burden can be heavy so that's why
we're here talking about it during Men's Mental Health Month.
There are some you know, some of the things that
(02:50):
people deal with shame, isolation, fatigue, denial fatigue meaning mental
fatigue not in addition to physical fatigue. So our goal
for today is to unpack both sides of the challenges
associated with it for both the body and the mind.
Right and this one, you know, like I said, both
(03:12):
John and I are Type two diabetics, but we're also
blessed to have John being an internal medicine doctor, and
so you know, having somebody that I trust and I
have trusted for decades, and knowing that he's got the
technical expertise, the knowledge and the experience. He lives in
another part of the country for me, so we're not
(03:33):
close physically. So I have my own regular doctor who
I deal with, but every conversation I have with my doctor,
almost every conversation, I share it with John because you know,
I'm like, hey, this is what we talked about, this
is what he told me, this is what I told him.
Does that sound right?
Speaker 2 (03:51):
That's it? You know.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
So it's always been that way and always was, like,
you know, as soon as John said he was going
to medical school. I was like, well, cool you our
doctor from now on, you know, just like you know,
it was like, well, I'm gonna be a lawyer, will
cool you my lawyer? Then he went and married once,
so you know, I'm not so he got his own
lawyer in the house.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
But you still my back though, you still got you go.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
So you know, we're bringing today's conversation from that that
dual perspective, the perspective of people dealing with it as
well as the perspective of a of a doctor who's treated,
you know, countless patients and currently treating patients and helping
them navigate the world of diabetes. So let's jump on
into it. John, you got any opening remarks before we
(04:39):
get into what we got planned since I had, you know,
gave that spiel.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Yeah, I think you set the stage excellent, my brother.
So it's a matter of us understanding that we are
to middle aged black man, some genetics that are probably
involved in some of this as well that we're going
to talk about, but also how we you're dealing with it,
and and like you said, us getting into the story
of how me being a physician that's helping them manage
(05:07):
patients with this, but yet I'm living with it along
with them as well. So to shared experiences I think
have become very helpful as it relates to taking care
of people with diabetes and us trying to just understand
how impactful this can be for us, you know, mentally, emotionally,
(05:29):
you know, socially and as well. So I'm excited, excited
about the conversation today.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
That's dope, let's get into it. So I'm going to
start off by sharing some of my personal experience. I'm
gonna let's let's start with the diagnosis story. You know,
that's my origin story, right, I'm a superhero now my
origin story. As far as becoming a diabetic. I'm actually
working on another podcast and John has actually heard this
(05:56):
first episode that I haven't started. I haven't published it yet,
but it's breaking the sugar cycleist so we'll talk, and
that one is focused on diabetes primarily. It's going to
be a year long podcast that's that's following my journey.
And so in that one, I talked a little bit
about how it all began. But for me, basically, one
of the issues that can come about being a diabetic
(06:19):
is that it can cause dry skin, it can cause
extremely dry skin, and so to get a little too personal,
I was having a little problem with the skin on
my manhood, dry skin for all kinds of problems. So
I ended up at the er right went there to
the because I was like, I need somebody to talk
(06:40):
to somebody, doctor, what's going on? Look at this? And
so he, you know, helped me with my immediate concerns
and then said you need to go see your doctor.
I didn't have a doctor. I was an irresponsible young
man at that point. You know, I still believed I
was immortal at that point, like so many young men,
(07:00):
and I think I had good reason to believe I
was immortal. I had been run over by a car before,
I had fallen out of a car doing like thirty
five on the road before. I was in a car
that rolled over, flipped over three times, walked away with
no broken bones. Had never broken a bone in my
body up to this point. So in my mind, some
of my you know, immortality or feelings of immortality were warranted.
(07:23):
But you know, you don't know what's going on on
the inside just because the outside looks good. I went
and made an appointment, went to see a doctor, got
a physical, and he said, if everything is fine, you'll
just get a letter from me in the mail. If
anything's not right, you'll get a call from me. I
got a call the next day say and get your
ass back in my office, now, you know. And it
was pretty much just like that. The doctor was a brother.
(07:45):
So your blood sugar was somewhere, you know, like over
three hundred. You're a diabetic. Okay, well I'm a diabetic.
I don't They don't even know what that meant really,
you know, just it was a diagnosis. You know, home,
I tell my mother, well, not go home. I talked
to my moms. She's like, well, yeah, I'm a diabetic too.
(08:07):
Your and so and so is a diabetic here, cousin,
it's such a such a diabetic. This person's diabetic. I'm like, well, damn,
I didn't know about all of these diabetics all up
and through my family because you know, we weren't talking
about it. But that was the So that was how
I learned that I was a diabetic. So you know,
now it was like, okay, well, what does this mean
(08:28):
and what am I supposed to do? Well, you know,
here's this pill. You know, we're gonna put you on
this pill, see if we can. You don't get this
under control? Okay. So I started taking the pill every
day like I was supposed to. I went to see
a nutritionists and you know, they taught me about portion
sizes and told me, you know, this is the amount
(08:49):
of carbs you should have every day. And so I
had to learn what carbs were. You know, i'd heard
the term carbohydrate before, I didn't have a clue what
it meant prior to this. You know, I was pretty
decent student in terms of chemistry and stuff like that,
so you know, I can understand that stuff once it's
broken down to me. But yeah, I didn't know about
any of that kind of stuff. I didn't know about
tracking my meals. I didn't know anything about, you know,
(09:12):
testing my blood sugar. So that's all of a sudden
that had to something that had to start happening on
a daily basis. You know, prick yourself every day and
test your blood sugar and you do it multiple times
a day and before meals and all of these kind
of things and what's your A one C and you know,
all of these different things that now I had to learn.
But even with all of that you know, frankly, it
(09:35):
really was still not that big a deal to me,
because you know, for me, this was might have been
the slightest chink in the armor. So maybe I'm not
truly immortal, but I'm still might be like a god.
You know, I might not be God, but I might
be like, you know, a Norse god, you know, or
something like that, you know, or you know how certain
movies to guys who over time they lose some of
(09:56):
their power. Right, So I'm a demi god, maybe I
but you know, not feeling truly immortal, but still not
really getting it, not probably taking it as seriously as
I could have or should have at that point in time.
So this was somewhere probably around two thousand, two thousand
and one, somewhere in there. So I've been a diabetic
for about twenty five I've been diagnosed as diabetic for
(10:19):
about twenty five years. Once I learned what I was
really dealing with and the symptomology and all of that
kind of stuff, I can say I was probably a
diabetic for about a year or two before I was diagnosed.
I'm sure that's the case for a lot of people
because it's a slow creeping thing. Right, it's not like
one day you're a diabetic. Not slow creeps and eases
in and it's that it's the frog and the boiling water, right,
(10:41):
you turn it up slow enough, he might not never
know until he's dinner, you know. So it was that
kind of thing, I think. So I didn't emotionally probably
what I didn't Probably I probably didn't really pay attention
to my emotions at the time, you know, I don't
think I was. I think too. As aged, we become
a little better about understanding our emotions, and I look back,
(11:04):
I don't think, you know, I know. And as we
were looking at this, one of the things I was
thinking about touching on was the emotional roller coaster. There
really was no emotional roller coaster in the beginning. It
was this is something that you that it's happened, you're
diagnosed with it. Here are the steps that you need
to take. Okay, Because of my mind, it wasn't gonna
really be a big deal, you know, And I don't
(11:25):
think I really understood the progressive nature of the disease
at the time and how it can even if you're
doing what you're supposed to do, it could still progress, right,
so I think I think that was I didn't really
I didn't notice physical changes to me at that time.
Over time, I've noticed those and accepted those physical changes.
(11:48):
But at the beginning, when I was first diagnosed, didn't
have all of that kind of stuff. So in your experience, John,
how often do black men open up about the emotional
side of diabetes? Because you know, I said, I think
over time that that became real to me, but in
the beginning that that emotional part, and I think part
of that for me was youth. But how long can
(12:08):
you know in your in your world as a as
a doctor, in your clinical world, do black men open
about the emotional side of it?
Speaker 1 (12:15):
That's a great question, rich And I think that with experience,
and this is not not bringing in my personal journey
yet into this, but as I take care of people
for all ages, adults will say that are being diagnosed
with diabetes, each person has their own reaction to it.
Some of them are like, Okay, you know, I get it.
(12:36):
They have knowledge that their family has diabetes, and I
know that this is something that need to be concerned about,
but you know that's not gonna happen to me type deal,
because I'm going to do this, that and the other
and stay fit. I'm gonna eat right, and it's just
not gonna happen. I've had some that are like, oh
my goodness, Doc, you're trying to tell me I have
(12:59):
to get on the shop.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
I'm like, no, we're not at that point. You know.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
We're still just talking about how we can manage this
would just diet and exercise. And that opens their eyes
because they're like, oh, I just thought once you were diabetic,
you were on the shots on insulin for this, and
we have a conversation about what does that mean and
what does that look like as well? And then I
met right exactly exactly.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
I'm not gonna go on to alais.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
And all of that as well, and what's it looked
like as far as checking blood sugars and and oh
my goodness, this is the this is it.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
I'm done.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
And it's like, no, But I have some that are
in denial. You know, I have somewhere I have to
continuously have the conversation that no, you have to understand
you have diabetes and we have to manage this, because
if you keep saying you're in denial of having it,
(13:59):
then you're not actually preparing yourself to be better with
the diagnosis. And that sometimes is where we got to
have multiple conversations and visits to understand that point and
knowing that, hey, and you've got to realize this too,
Rich by being diagnosed with diabetes isn't a death sentence
at all. It's an awareness, you know, it's awareness of
(14:22):
things that we have to do to take care of
our health and wellness.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
To be right, diagnosis is a good thing if you
got it. The diagnosis is a good thing. Right. Sooner,
the sooner you know, the better.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Right, And that's absolutely true from a scientific standpoint, The
sooner you know the better because it still works on
your body even though you may not be feeling the.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Effects of it.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
But if you're aware and you're starting to do the
things that we need to do to take care of ourselves.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Then exactly denying that you know you're feeling it because
some of the changes that are happening to your body
as a result of diabetes, you might not you might
assume that those are regular changes. They're not right, or
they're aging, you know, as you get older. You know,
(15:16):
I'm a firm believer in that saying you're not old.
You just need to stretch right.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
There, you go. Right.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
So, a lot of times things that we are associating
with getting older, that's more of being an American getting older.
You know, when we look at our diet and our
lifestyle and things of that nature. You were talking about
the things you see in your patients to denial, the
fear medication. You know, this notion of I think is
really huge. And just what you see right here, this
lack of education. I think we're you know, we're predisposed
(15:44):
because you know, there's diabetes, and like I said, it's
all over America, it's all over the black communities, and
so we all know people. It's like you know, in
my day job, I deal with crime right all the time.
And and one thing always says that everybody thinks they
know more about the criminal justice system than they do
because everybody, because crime touches everybody in some way directly
(16:05):
and directly, especially in the black community, diabetes touches us
all directly or indirectly. Right, we all get family or
friends or we directly you know, suffer from this ourselves.
And so I think a lot of people think they
know more about it than they do. And so those
opportunities for people like you to make sure we're getting
the right information. You know, it's really huge, you know,
(16:27):
talk about this notion, this cultural stigma. This is really
kind of I think tying into mental health piece about
you know, this notion of just man up or you
know how we always say we don't really want to
talk about mental health stuff in our community. Ain't nothing
wrong with you, man?
Speaker 2 (16:40):
You fine, right right right now.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
So I'm gonna do it this way through a little
bit of a personal reflection on this as well. So
you know, again, I'm an internal medicine physician, right so
I'm taking care of people with diabetes, health issues, mental
health issues on a daily basis. And I go in, I,
you know, see my my physician just for my yearly checkup.
(17:05):
This is probably probably about ten, probably ten to fifteen
years ago, going in and similar having my lab work
done and everything, and got my labs back and it
was like, wait a minute, you know, my A one
C was you know, like six point three. So at
this point I'm like pre diabetes here, I'm like, oh
(17:25):
my goodness, what the heck? You know is this about
type deal? And you know, understanding that it's hard for
a physician to talk to another physician that actually does
this on a day in day in basis. You see
what I'm saying. So now my doc has to try
(17:46):
to talk to me and still remember that I'm his
patient versus Yeah, I know this already, but in essence,
I need you to kind of tell me what's going
on though it is Well if that makes sense, you.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
Yeah, I get you.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
It's it's like I needed to hear from him. Okay, John,
you've got diabetes or you have free diabetes. At this point,
this is what you need to do. You know, you
got to you know, you know you have to work
on this, this and this in order to try to
prevent this from happening. But he also knew my family history,
and my family history was diabetes. So I'm already, you know,
(18:29):
knowing that eventually this is going to hit. You know this,
This is where knowledge comes in and me, you know,
not trying to fool myself saying that, Okay, I know
if I do this, this and the other, I'm not
gonna get diabetes. Well that's not necessarily true. You're going
to help continue to keep yourself healthy and well to
(18:49):
the point that I'm hopefully delaying this process that's going
on with diabetes, but genetically it's going to happen.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Type deal.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
It's just a matter of when, in and and to
what impact is going to have on me at that
point or on our bodies at that point. So I
did this and that and everything else. And then a
few years after that was when my ANC hit the
six point five mark, which is the which is the
diagnosis of diabetes at that point. So I started like wondering,
(19:24):
you know what, almost to the point of disbelief myself.
I'm like, wait a minute again, I'm an internal medicine physician.
I know about this thing. Why is it that I'm
not able to control this better than what I think
I should be able to control it? As knowing that, yes,
(19:46):
working on your diet, exercise and keeping your weight down,
avoiding high carb high sugar content products is a way
to try to help delay this process. Type did, getting
my record to check ups, my eyes examined, and all
that other good stuff as well. But yet here and
still I have diabetes. So it took me a moment
(20:08):
before really sharing that, you know, with people. Yeah, my
wife knew, she knows everything about my health and everything.
But then I have to tell my kids, you know,
this is something that you guys are going to have
to look out for as well, you know, as you're
getting older. But then to share that with my family,
I mean with my with my other family, and I
(20:29):
was considering you guys as my families. I don't even
say friends really all my family, but then my family
my friends, and how does that, you know, how does
that look? I was concerned that are they going to
judge me by having diabetes and my ability to be
a doctor, right, and was I able to to not
(20:52):
do something to stop this from happening, But realizing hey,
I'm human, just like all the rest of us out here, are.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Never crossed my mind because well, you know, being a
diabetic too, and no understanding the reality of that genetic component.
Because for me, you know, at my heaviest weight, I
weighed two hundred and forty pounds sick. I'm six five.
You know, that was that was a nice weight for
being an NBA small forward, right, you know, because at
(21:20):
that point, you know, I was really I was really
active at that heavier. Right now I weigh one eighty five,
same frame, but that's but no, so I never For me,
it was never. I never once you told me, once
you disclosed that to me. I never thought about it
being something that you neglected to do or something like that.
You would never now if you had gotten up to
(21:41):
three hundred pounds, talked about you. But you know, as
a best friend, I would have been like, dude, what's
wrong with you? You know you're a doctor. You know better
than this that you shouldn't be that heavy, right, But
you know that's different from you know, something that where
there's a genetic predisposition. We won't even say that you're
genetically guaranteed to have it, but you're genetically pretty damn
(22:02):
near guaranteed, you know.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Right right right?
Speaker 3 (22:06):
You know you know yeah, because that's that's how it's
for me. Like I said, I've never been I've never even,
like I said, even at that point when I way
two forty, I was, I was in great shape, you know,
and I was my size. That wasn't you know, if
you get on your B and I and do all
of that kind of stuff, I wouldn't have been obese,
you know, right. So it was it's about the genetics,
(22:28):
I think that component. So you know I never judged you.
We never did.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Yeah, no, and I know it.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
And I think that's what helped me even more was,
you know, I started recognizing that because I have a
medical illness does not make me inferior to anybody or
or my ability to still take care.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Of people as well too.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
It makes it do.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
I appreciate you, I appreciate you. So after COVID hit,
that was when I actually started opening up to my
patience that hey, I have diabetes with you, okay, so
you know you're not going through this journey alone type deal.
You have to go through it, and believe me, what
(23:14):
I'm asking you to do, I'm actually asking myself to
do as well too, So.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
I gotta stick myself every day.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
YEA, right, Yeah, it sucks.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
It sucks, right, you do. But now we don't. Right now,
we don't. That's right, you know, that's right. But I'm man, man,
I'm twenty five years into this mess. Man, man, I
pricked my fingers so many. You know, it's the winter
time that's the worst.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
It gets real Carolina.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
You don't know, but in Chicago, you're taking your blood
sugar in February is one of them. Even if you've
been in the house all day, you know, with the
heat on eighty you know, the cold still finds its
way into the crib and it gets to your fingers,
it gets to those fingertips.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
It's just that's right, that's right, oh man.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
So yeah, so the struggles there and knowing that you know,
it's real and and I think it gives me a
perspective to know, Okay, I can imagine this person is
going through something as well. So it helps me with
that personal understanding to now, you know, be able to
help that person try to understand.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
A little bit better what are you going through?
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Not just this physical aspect, but tell me, you know
more about what do you think about now that we've
talked about this diagnosis, and then we can help try to,
you know, erase the myths that are out there and
you know, support some truths you know about things that
can be done as well.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
Let's I'm gonna talk a little bit about emotional low points.
Let me kind of I'm gonna kind of touch because
I mean that is a reality, right we You know,
I don't know that I blamed myself. I think honestly,
I blame mine. I blame my family. I blamed my
parents initially for not talking about it, considering the you know,
(25:07):
the number of family members who have are dealing with
this condition that I didn't know about prior to my diagnosis.
You know, I'm like man I used to be, you know, man,
I would be Max and Snickers on the regular. You know,
for me, I you know, I'm a pretty big guy, right,
not I'm not huge, but you know, in terms of
(25:27):
non NBA people, I'm above average size. I'm about six
y five.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Right.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
For me, the ideal beverage size was a one Leader bottle. Right,
most people hold that sixteen ouns twenty houns bottle. That
one Leader bottle fits my hand perfectly, like that little
sixteen ouse fits most other people. So I could watch
an NBA game and drink two of those you know,
you know, even seven up either seven up of doctor pepper.
(25:53):
Now that's all the sugar you need for a week, right,
and I to max that thing. And you know, during
a game or doing again, I could drink two Leaders
of pop doing a game. You know, that's two and
a half hours right over that time. You know that's
a leader or a half. You know, we're drinking and
talking or whatever. So you know, just all of the
sugar you ever need, right, was just you know, And
(26:13):
I'm like, nobody ever told me that, you know, I think. So,
I'm like, you know, this notion that you're you're coming
from this perspective of knowing better as a doctor, but
me not knowing the family history now, you know. So
prior to that, I had no I had no concept
of too much sugar could hurt anything. Right, my whole life,
I've been doing maxim on sugar. And as I look
(26:35):
back at it, that's like, it makes sense I'm a
diabetic or at that point I was predisposed. Of course
I would love sugar more than everything else in life. Right,
But so, had somebody ever been told me when I
was younger, you need to lay off, that you shouldn't
be doing all of that. Don't you know all of
your family members? You know? So and so that I
did not know that my my cousin had gotten transplants
(26:58):
and then wasted trans plans, you know, before his demidse
May he rest in peace. I love you because but
the things I learned later in life. Had somebody told
me when I was younger, when there was an opportunity
to put me on the path that might have delayed it. Again,
it might not have stopped it, but it might have
delayed it. You know, I might not have become a
diabetic in my early thirties. I might have become one
(27:21):
in my fifties, you know, which might have delayed some
of the physical damage I did to my body. As
you talked about the eye tests and stuff like that. Yeah,
I've had some macular degeneration issues because of not being
responsible about it. So yeah, you know, this notion of
some of the emotional low points, blaming yourself, feeling like
a failure when numbers are high. I don't really struggle
(27:43):
with that, like I used to some of the things
I've never done. I know some people will hide, will
avoid doctor visits because they don't want to hear the truth,
things like that. I know you, I know you and
I we've talked before about the importance of being honest
with your doctor. You know, it's the same thing as
a former trial lord, you knowing all you saw was
say you tell your lawyer everything. That's the one person
(28:04):
who you need to tell the complete whole truth too,
so they can fully leave and they can't tell nobody
they want to still be a lawyer. They can't tell
nobody same thing you doctors. Doctors tell them everything. But
you said one thing to me one day years ago
that that has always stuck with me. And it's and
you said, tell your doctors the truth because they know
when you're lying anyway. Yeah, yeah, don't lie to me.
(28:31):
I'm reading the right.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
I can see it right here.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
I got when you say to me that you haven't
done such and such in years, or when you say,
I'm saying to myself, you a goddamn lie to the public.
John would to say that that's not his that's not
his style. He wouldn't say you a goddamn lie.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
That was me.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
John would say, are you sure I'll tell you because
what I'm saying here is that looking like that? But
it's the same thing. It got damn right, I see
this here. But so you know, don't lie to your doctors.
But I think you know, that's kind of one of
those human nature things, right, that denial. The denial is
so strong, and that that notion that it is not
(29:15):
your fault when you didn't know about your family genetics.
It's not like that's something that happens every day. In America, Right,
we don't hand out twenty three and me cards to everybody,
you know, as soon as you roll up and hear, hey,
welcome to to life. Here's your family history, here's every
disease that you might be predisposed to. Here's the foods
(29:35):
you should be eating based on your genetics. I'm looking
forward to the day that we get there. I want
to I want a script, I want to know them.
These are these are the twenty best foods for you
based on your genetics.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
You know it.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
Is common, so you know with but this, this, this,
these emotional challenges, you know, I think people do. I
think that. Don't blame yourself for not knowing. Just go
learn right, right, don't blame yourself for your failures. Right
on those days when you eat the wrong things, it's
gonna happen. Nobody's purfect all the time. The most the
(30:12):
most disciplined people do a really great job. But even
they have days, right, they might not fall away, they
might not fall way off like you've been falling off lately.
That's a generic you, that's not a John you, that's
a general kid. But I'm saying that those days because
I have those days, right, there areas when I just
(30:33):
say it, I'm about to eat this, you know. Ye
One thing I try to do, even on those days
when I say if it I'm about to eat this,
I try and go for a walk afterwards, you know,
I try and do something else to mitigate it a
little bit. I don't know if it's to help the guilt,
but but what it really is for me is is
(30:53):
to help to push the numbers back now, because I'm
always looking at it like that, and so I'm like, so,
you know, when the numbers go, I'm a dawn effect
guy right every morning, no matter what I eat that night.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
If you look at.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
I'm a dex comm. I'm a dex com where I
have a CGM, so I can see my numbers all
the time, so I see what happens overnight, and I
see right after the alarm goes off when I wake
up in the morning, I go up thirty points. I'll
be around eighty eight ninety somewhere while I'm sleep every night,
(31:28):
even if I do something stupid the night before and
eat something and eat a whole piece of chocolate cake
and send my numbers up over two hundred by the
time about four about two three in the morning's then
went all the way down about four am. I'm an
eighty and then around. I wake up every morning at
six thirty, and my body knows it. At six thirty,
(31:51):
it turns on. It goes up thirty points, and then
it stops. It doesn't matter what if I don't eat,
do eat whatever, it's going up, and so if what
I eat is going to go up on top of that,
you know, if I eat something sugar with something with
sugar in it or something like that. But if I
eat what I normally eat in the morning, I have
some unsweetened yogurt with some chia seeds and some walnuts.
(32:13):
That's pretty much my daily start every day. That doesn't
move me at all, but it's already gone up thirty
points because as soon as I wake up. So I've
learned to accept the reality of what my body does.
I've learned to accept how it moves through that stuff.
And so I don't don't I don't have the guilt,
(32:34):
I don't feel bad, and I know when I eat
what I'm not supposed to. I've gotten my overall metabolism
to a point where I can have the occasional indulgence,
and I go up and I come back down. I
don't go up and stay up like I used to
when I wasn't doing better. I still haven't gotten my
A one to where I want it to be all
(32:54):
the time, but my metabolism is now in a place
where I don't have to feel guilt you about doing stuff.
I go to the doctor, you know I don't. It's
that's the most important thing, is to have those conversations
I think with the doctor.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Well, I'm going to add to that real quick, too, Rich.
Is that something touched on earlier that I wanted to
definitely get back to is that you know, we're in
a generation where we actually are starting to understand the
importance of knowledge. You've been touching on that a lot,
and knowledge is not just personal as to your health,
but us need to understand the health of our parents
(33:36):
and older siblings and things as well, because we live
in that generation where we're taking care of them ourselves
and our kids behind this type dude, So we have
to try to get to or have to start asking
those questions because the generation before us, they didn't share
(33:56):
that information with anybody. They kept that to themselves. If
you had anything going on. It was deemed a weakness
in them type deal. When no, you have the knowledge,
you can get better, which makes you actually stronger than
the person who's not sharing that information in order to
gain a knowledge to be better at it as well.
(34:18):
So we have to encourage our audience. Hey, start asking
the questions. Okay, start asking the questions about what tell
me a little bit about your health, or go to them,
but to go with them to the doctor, find out
and hear for yourself what's going on. And you find
out all kinds of stuff that you didn't know was happening.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
And you like, what way did you say this? You
know what?
Speaker 3 (34:42):
My mother, my mother only goes to the most routine
appointments by herself. You know, she goes, you know, she
does her she goes and does her laps work by herself,
because you know, but anything other than that, either myself
or my wife is going and you know, she might
have questions, but we got questions too, and we're in
the room with her because we're not going to rely
(35:03):
on her to relate that information because it's the same thing,
you know, right, we want the full story, you know,
we want the full facts, and I want my questions
answered directly by the doctor.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
And that's because you love and care for that person.
Are the generation before us didn't understand that though again
there are our Superman and our you know, Storm or
our Wonder Woman or whatever, our black panthers, so we
(35:35):
couldn't see, or they felt like we couldn't see that
they had issues going on, even though we could see
that there's things going on with them. But that's where
we've got to get to the point where no us
having that conversation, as you said, may have helped us
to delay some of this stuff till later in life
(36:00):
versus early in life where things are starting to continue
to work on our body. So you're right, maybe we
wouldn't have had those those those what was it, the
big gulps at the seven eleven's and things like that,
like we used to smash Ideal, you know, theys and
(36:21):
smash that sucker man and all of that stuff if
we had known, because now it's like, okay, now I've
got to make a decision.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
Am I gonna make the decision and I'm gonna still
do this here?
Speaker 1 (36:38):
Or hey, you know, maybe I am not gonna do
that much of that right now? You know, I might
have these French fries, but I ain't gonna have that
shake along with it type.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
And then you see what I'm saying, that's often the
choice I'm making is if I want a little sweet treat,
what am I giving up?
Speaker 2 (36:56):
Right?
Speaker 3 (36:57):
What am I giving up along the way so that
I can have that? And rack in that choice? And then,
you know, because it was, you know, I was really
upset with myself the other day, got caught up. It
was a National Donut Day. Also, I got to have
a donut, right, and I wasted most of the day
didn't get a donut. And so then I'm going and
making a running and erran and doing something. And you know,
McDonald's sells those Krispy Kremes. But you know, the truth
(37:21):
of the matter is Krispy Karan that's having tasted good
for about a decade.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
That's because y'all getting them old used ones. You gotta
come to North Carolina.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
You come to North and they're still like that good
because they changed the formula. It's what I'm saying. It's
not the Krispy Kreme of fifteen years ago. You know,
they've become two mass produced and so it's long story short,
I got a Krispy Kurring donut and was so disappointed. Man, No,
I wasn't disappointed. I was pissed off. I paid two
do fifty for a single donut that that just was
(37:54):
just nasty. And I'm like, Virgina was like, how was it?
I was like, it was disgusting. I took two bites
and threw it away. I said, the only reason I
took the second bible was because I paid for that
thing and I refused to just throw the whole thing away.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
That's right, it was.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
It was flat out disgusting. Oh and I was really
disappointed by the whole thing because I always say, you know,
the bottom line is is make it special. Make it
a tree. If I'm going to eat something a tree,
make it a tree, right, you know, and make it
you know, And so that wasn't that was not worthy
of treat status.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
And make it a reasonable tree. You know, it doesn't
have to You don't have.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
To go glutting us with the tree, and the tree
is still enjoyed the tree.
Speaker 3 (38:33):
See, that's the thing I do.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
Go overboard.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
I've mastered this, dude, I've mastered going. You know, we'll
go out to a restaurant or something, and I'll pick
the most decadent thing dessert on the menu. I'll take
two bites and push it away and walk away, and
people be looking at me like what what was it? Nasty? Like, No,
that thing was delicious and it was like delicious, yeah,
but that's all I can have of that right right?
(38:56):
Looking at it? Right, that thing was like fourteen dollars,
I was like, well, you know, I mean.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
I got my fourteen dollars work, so.
Speaker 3 (39:05):
The last taste tastes the same, so just right exactly,
you know. So we got to do that, man. So
let me ask you a question, because you know, we
I think we kind of had a script for those
of you out there who don't know. But yeah, so
let's we're talking about coping, healing, and redefining strength in
this segment. So what's helped me deal with being a
(39:27):
diabetic over all these years? I'd say, for me, a
couple of things that I lean on, and that's my podcast.
Brothers are my part of my primary support group. I
think education is very important, as John and I've talked
about knowing what's going on, knowing how things work, knowing
what's actually happening. With my body helps in a great way.
(39:49):
I think spiritual grounding is very important that I think
helps with this whole mental health part of it. That
we're talking about the reality of it, right, I do
have I don't have a therapist, that I do have
a spiritual guide. I do journal. So for me, you know,
having and with my spiritual guide that comes with one
on one conversation as well as a small group of
(40:12):
brothers that that we get together we talk about once
a month about our different challenges, so, you know, finding
ways to deal with and getting out. I think part
of it for men, I think is having that place
to be able to get things out and say them
and talk about them.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
Right.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
I think one of the things that men automatically want
to do is we want to fix things right. I
know a lot of times the ladies in our lives say,
I don't need you to fix nothing, just shut up
and listen, don't tell me. Right, but that and so right.
I think we struggle with that for ourselves too. But
having opportunities to share, bounce ideas off of each other
and show up for each other and provide support and
(40:52):
ideas and suggestions and recommendations or sometimes just being able
to say, yeah, you know, uh huh that a well
played just like that. Sometimes a well placed m can
be very effective because I'm hearing that, you hear that,
you're feeling what I'm going through, and you're empathizing with it.
And for me as a black man, sometimes that's all
(41:13):
I need. We're not naturally open to just like all right,
you know, give me all of this, but a little something,
you know, can can be beneficial. You know, so I
think that you know so so from your you know,
from your doctor's perspective, what should we be doing differently
as black men when it comes to managing both the
physical and the mental side of our condition. We've talked
(41:33):
a lot about the physical side, but how black this
is men's health money, how do how do we tie
that in?
Speaker 2 (41:40):
You know?
Speaker 3 (41:40):
What? What should we be doing differently or more of
what do you think?
Speaker 2 (41:45):
Nah?
Speaker 1 (41:45):
I think you've hit on a lot of great opportunities
and options there, rich and and and one of it
is that we've got to understand that when we're having
stressors going on, be it physical, co being mental, be
it emotional, be it psychological, we've grown thinking that we
(42:05):
can do that and take care of that on our own,
and what we've learned is that we really can't, and
we do a bad job if we try to do
it that way. So we've got to get comfortable with
having our network, our village, our family, our folks that
we know we can have safe conversation with and not
(42:27):
feel like I'm being judged because of what I'm saying
or how I'm feeling. And sometimes that takes time, you know,
it takes time to maybe build that kind of network,
but it's necessary. I tell folks, hey, my wife is
you know, she's she's great, she's golden. But some things
I need to share with like you guys, you know,
(42:48):
I need to share with you and Greg.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
I need to share with you.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
Know, Richard Lindsay or you know, my other crew about
some things going on or sometimes I shared.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
We have actually we've helped start.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
A Man Talk to here where I live, and we
meet two times a month to just have men be
able to come out and be able to feel comfortable
sharing what's going on. Try to give them some uplift,
try to give them some advice, try to give them
some recommendations. But like you said, you know, as man,
we typically want to try to fix things, but we
(43:21):
have to present it in a way that no, I'm
not here to fix you, but I'm here to at
least give you my experience and then maybe you can
find something from that that may help you on your
journey now as well, and recognizing that, hey, you not alone.
So like with diabetes, I'm not alone in this thing
(43:41):
having diabetes. You see what I'm saying. You're not alone
in this thing having diabetes. Prostate cancer another affliction that
you know disproportionately affects black men.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
You're not alone.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
But yet we go into that mindset, Oh, man, I
must be the only one dealing with prostate cancer.
Speaker 3 (43:59):
This you know what it is not It's the fingerwave, man,
it's the finger.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
I know.
Speaker 1 (44:07):
That's the other part of that that I got to
get through some folks mentally.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
That's the way.
Speaker 3 (44:12):
That's what. That's what, that's what. That's tripping up a
whole lot of black men. Man.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
We'll talk about that another time.
Speaker 3 (44:23):
That's a whole episode.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
That's a whole other episode. That's right. But but it's uh.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
But I would say doing the things like you said, man,
just being able to reflect, going to therapy, you know, whatever,
that looks like for you, nothing is wrong.
Speaker 3 (44:39):
So back up, hold on, back up, and have it
just for a moment, because you know, as soon as
you say that going to therapy, you know half our
audience just bristled up. So let's just say this, having
a conversation with a professional, right.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
Right, Exactly, that's what we call it, having a conversation
with the professional. Right, go have one and going with
the understanding that they're not there to give you the
answer though, or to judge you or to judge you. Exactly,
it's their profession. They can't go talk to that to nobody,
(45:14):
you know what I'm saying. So, like we talked about
you being an attorneyman being a doctor, they are a professional.
So whatever you're sharing with them, they can't go out
and just have conversation with everybody. Oh you know, Joe
just told me about so and so, so and so
type deal. Heck no, otherwise you own they practice, so
what I'm saying, But that's what that is like.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
So no, so be comfortable.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
And yet you have to be comfortable with whomever you
have in that conversation right as well, right right right,
Or let's be real, you're wasting your time in their time,
you know what I'm saying, and your money.
Speaker 3 (45:51):
So that discovery, so you're so right, that discovery, that
initial discovery piece of it, that initial part of the
conversation figuring out is this the person that I can
feel comfortable with? Because and so that's that's gonna be
a vibe and that might mean that you have to
have more than one conversation with a professional to get
(46:13):
to get to the professional that you feel comfortable with.
And that's that's another you know, topic we're going to
have because we're going to bring in guests to talk
about that, you know, as it relates to that, that
finding that right person to have that conversation with, because
you know, brothers, there's brothers out there that do this,
out there that do this that you can have those
(46:35):
conversations with. You know that that can aid and that
comfort piece to Joms talking about I'm feeling comfortable about
who you're talking to, about what you're talking with, Because
when I did have the need to have a conversation
with a professional, for me, part of that was I
needed to find a brother and I was able to
and then you know, once we started having a conversation,
(46:57):
it became real clear to me that you know it really,
and I guess that gave me the initial comfort I needed.
But our conversations really had nothing to do with that. Ultimately,
I think on some level, with some of what I
was dealing with, there was a cultural component to it
and a family component to it that he better understood
because he was a black man. So that helped.
Speaker 1 (47:20):
Yes, I agree, and that's why it's important for folks
you know, who resemble our culture is whom we need
to get more of as well, because we feel comfortable
with that. Now again I said our culture because not
everybody that looks like us understands that culture as well,
(47:45):
So you can't just say that. But someone who understands
the culture that you share is whom you're looking for
to try to find some understanding with as well.
Speaker 3 (47:59):
So what is this you know you talked about not
being alone. We've talked I think about this notion of
if something's wrong, you know, or we've culturally we see
this idea not wanting to show the vulnerability. But ultimately,
you know, the greater strength is is accepting who you
(48:20):
are or what you're dealing with and then rolling with it. Again,
going back to what we said earlier. I think the
initial diagnosis was the best thing for me. It took
me a while to accept and grow into it. But
knowing that my body is different from the norm, and well,
we're an American, so I guess my body is kind
(48:41):
of the norm. Right, over half of us have diabetes
now or that, well something like you know, right, what,
seventy percent of Americans are overweight and fifty percent or
ob seventy percent or overweight, something like that, and so
most of us have diabetes or are on that path.
Maybe I'm not so different, but I'm different from the
(49:02):
way that the quote unquote normal person's body works in
all of those respects. I look at it as just
that my metabolism is a little different from the norm,
and as a result of it, I have to do
some things a little differently, and that in and of
itself isn't bad. But knowing what it is or how
it is equips me. I think now better than when
(49:25):
I was younger. I think I'm in better, I'm better
in tune with how my body works. I think I'm
better in tune with my body's needs. I think as
a result of knowing that I'm going to have to
do certain things to stay healthy. You know, I do
them now again, Like you were saying, knowledge and choices, right,
I know better and I try to do better. Some
(49:46):
days I fail in that respect, but I don't beat
myself up. I give myself grace for being less than perfect,
and then I try to work on being better at
those things.
Speaker 2 (49:59):
And I say it like it's rich. Don't.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
Don't say it as a failure, my brother. Nothing's a failure,
you know. It's just I wasn't able to do the
best that I would have liked to have done this day,
and therefore I still have another day. Guy willing that
I can do better type deal, because failure has so
much negative connotations to it that it almost make puts
you in a mindset of I'm never going to get
(50:22):
better with this thing, you see what I'm saying. So
if we change our mindset, we change our ability to
to do better, be better.
Speaker 2 (50:31):
Healed from that as well. So that's why I said
it that way.
Speaker 3 (50:36):
Yeah, yeah, no, I agree with you that that makes
good sense. You know, I'm a firm believer in that
that we we speak things into existence, and then you
know there's even scientific proof to support some of those claims,
right have you? Have you read about the water studies
that were done where you know, the things like that
where they you know, people spoke into into into glasses
(50:57):
of water negative and positive. And then when you look
under the microscope you see you know, the changes in
the water when they freeze it, you know, and that
kind of thing. But you know, there are a lot
of different things over time that are suggested. The way
we speak to ourselves, the way we contributes to our
overall package, the way we you know, everything about us.
(51:18):
It starts with how we look at ourselves and how
we speak to ourselves and how we emotionally support ourselves.
So I think that leads right to your point about
not looking at it as a failure, looking at it
maybe as you didn't achieve your best on this particular day.
But and like again, I'm firmly believing and giving myself
grace in those settings. I think we are getting close
(51:41):
to our closing kind of section here.
Speaker 1 (51:44):
So I'm a touch on this real quick before we
get to that point as well, Richard. It's gonna get
us closer to that point as well. And there's some
things that we were preparing ourselves for for our conversation
today is that, yeah, you know, we all have the
ability to to work on things to help us to
be better at whatever that looks like. Okay, now we
(52:06):
make choices, and that that's you know, God gave us
that that opportunity to make choices. It's how we make
the choice and what choice we make that determines what
that potential outcome.
Speaker 2 (52:18):
May look like. Okay, So if.
Speaker 1 (52:20):
You have a condition like diabetes, as we're talking about today,
and you're gonna have the mindset that well, I'm just
gonna let let things be as they be. They just
gonna be as it's gonna be. And if I'm supposed
to have his diabetes, then I'm just gonna have his
diabetes and so be a type deal. Well, that's the
choice you making. That's not the choice that's being made
(52:43):
for you, though you have the ability to do something
about it. So if you want to change your nutrition,
if you want to change your level of activity, if
you want to change your mindset, getting your rest reduced,
that stress, all of that is going to help you
be better with the diabetes. I tell folks, and you've
heard me say it before, that I try to help
(53:06):
us get to a point that, yes, we may have
health issues, we may have mental health issues that we
have to cope with and deal with, but I don't
want but I don't want it to be that that
has stopped you from living life, because that's not what
this whole thing is about. We've got to understand that, Okay,
I may have this now, all right, let me do
(53:27):
some of these things that I know that can help
me later. Type deal, you know, and if we can
get to that point and keep encouraging each other, which
is why the community is so necessary that we surround
ourselves by, because that's your support, you know, that's your accountability,
(53:48):
that's your your folks that are that are cheering you on.
Speaker 2 (53:52):
Type deal.
Speaker 1 (53:53):
If you don't have that and you just allow yourself
to just woe is me type deal, You're right, you're
gonna be a woe over there, laid up layer, cut
off on dialysis, being like, see this is what I
was supposed to be. Like, No, not if you did
the things you needed to do in order to not
(54:15):
get to that point or at least the lay getting
to that point again as well.
Speaker 2 (54:22):
But that was the decision that you made. Type deal.
Speaker 1 (54:26):
So one of the things that we said is that
it's not just about surviving, especially with diabetes, it's about
living and living life to its fullest.
Speaker 3 (54:38):
That's dope, that.
Speaker 1 (54:40):
Said, my brother, that's this give ourselves and I love
how you say it, give ourselves grace. You know, don't
be afraid of what the diagnosis may be, because again,
if we're able to help diagnose things early, that just
(55:01):
means we are now got a fighting chance to take
care of it. If it becomes too late and we've
diagnosed it where we can't do anything more for you,
then it's like, wow, you know, I'm sorry, you know,
but this is what this looks like versus yep, we're here,
but this is just the beginning. We can slow this down,
(55:23):
we can maybe stop this thing. We may be able
to reverse this thing, but now we got to fight
a chance at doing it. So don't be afraid to
go to your doctors, don't be afraid to go talk
to professionals. Don't be afraid to have conversations with your
family about what's going on with them, because potentially what's
going on with them maybe something.
Speaker 2 (55:46):
That goes on with you as well.
Speaker 1 (55:49):
You are a beautiful person and you have to take
care of yourself before you take care of anybody else.
So always remember that that you have strength, you have purpose,
and you have a willingness to be well.
Speaker 2 (56:14):
Mo Man.
Speaker 3 (56:15):
So if you're newly diagnosed and you're being quiet in
the background, not really saying anything, or if you've got
family members or friends you know who are dealing with this,
you're not broken, you're not alone. You just have a
condition that a lot of us have. But there's still
time to get better. I think getting in there and
talking to your doctor. If you don't have a doctor,
(56:36):
get a doctor. If you don't, you know, talk to somebody.
There's all kinds of ways to get connected to the
professionals that can provide you with the information to get
you on a better path. There's always room to get better,
there's always room for improvement. That you are still above
the dirt, and so as long as you are still
above the dirt, you have opportunities to get better. So
(56:56):
check in on each other, check in on loved one,
check in on those you know who are dealing with
this condition. If you're supporting the loving people who have diabetes,
make sure that you're helping to support them in their
journey towards wellness, Invite them to share with you their
challenges and try and figure out ways that you can
help them deal with this a little better, right, because
(57:20):
it impacts everybody, Right, everybody in the household is impacted.
I mean just from I mean a practical matter. Right,
My dietary choices impact my wife. We're eating the same
foods or a lot of the same foods on a
regular basis, and so the way that I'm dealing with
things are going to impact her because you know, we're
not trying to make two separate meals, right. We're not
(57:40):
gonna have two separate dinners all the time, you know.
And it's not like you know, if you go out
to a restaurant, Yeah, we're each kind of order what
we're ordering, and so in those contexts we might be
eating differently. But at home, you know, we're not making
two separate dinners, breakfasts and lunches every day, right or whatever.
So I mean the reality is is you're.
Speaker 1 (57:57):
Not in it the loan and also long remember that
they're also preparing for their children or their family. So
by you sat in the stage, you helped to prepare
them to be better going and going forward as well.
Speaker 3 (58:12):
Talk about that. Man, that's huge, you know, that is
so huge, and actually internally in my family that's been
some of the biggest fights is you know, looking at
and conversations around, you know, the younger people and the
information that's being or not being shared with them, like,
you know, let them know what's going on. I can
remember my one of my really good friends when they
(58:32):
when their sons were young, and with us visiting them,
they they wanted me to they wanted their sons to
watch me take my insulin shut and so they were intrigued,
Well what are you doing and why? So you know,
we got to talk about all of that. You know,
I'm blessed at this point to not want to no
longer be on insulin. You know, we were able to
reverse that, but yeah, at that time, you know that
(58:55):
was something. Let's use this as a moment of education
for them so that they understood what was going on.
So it's important that you know, you don't travel this
road alone, you know, check in, like I said, checking
in on each other, check in on the people. Thank
you all for listening. I've got a very specific request
if you enjoyed this episode, not only you know, we
(59:16):
always say, you know, subscribe, follow us, share this with
your friends, but I want you to. My specific request
is think about somebody who you think could benefit from
hearing this particular episode, and don't just tell them about it.
Share it with them. Say hey, do you listen to podcasts.
If you don't, this is the one you should start
listening to, and go ahead and share with him that way. Not,
(59:38):
you know, not just because selfishly I want our audience
to grow, but I think that you know, you know,
some people that could benefit from what we're talking about too,
So go ahead and share that out with them.
Speaker 2 (59:49):
Thank you, outstanding, my brother. I appreciate you always.
Speaker 3 (59:54):
All right, thank you. Everybody will talk to y'all real,
so take care. The two people are consistedly s intent,
Welcome to Raw and Refine, the Gentleman's Hour, where we're
going to have conversation with middle aged black men about
what's going on. We welcome you to listen, comment and like,
and hopefully encourage others to join for future conversations as well.
We always like to start off with a toast, and
(00:28):
with that toast, it's because we are gentlemen and we
do it.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Raw and Refine.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
So John, talk about our beverage.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Man, oh man, we have got for the getting ready
for summer. We're not quite there yet. Now it's almost
coming though, we're starting to get ready. And for this one,
I went ahead with a strawberry MARGUERITEA nice man and nice.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Yeah, because John put it out there he said that
our mandate was a margarita or some sort of tropical beverage.
So I said, you going with a margarita. I'm rolling
with a margarita as well. Now mine is not strawberry.
I went with a pineapple margarita.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
There you go, there you go, there you go join
that beverage.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
So for today it's just John and I GK. Got
a lot going on at this moment, but we want
to stick to our as close as we can to
our normal cadence. So we had to roll on without
Greg today. So today this one is gonna tie in.
This is June, which is Men's Men's Mental Health Month,
(01:43):
So this particular topic today is not strictly a mental
health one, but it's tied to mental health, and that
what we're talking about today is something that we both
live with every single day, type two diabetes. It's something
that doesn't get talked about enough, and especially it's the
mental health told that diabetes takes on not just those
(02:06):
who deal with it, but their families and friends. And
you know, I know all my friends know all about
me being a diabetic and the things that I deal
with because my real friends we talk and they are
actually interested in me enough to want to hear me
complain about some things. But this is a condition that
is common among black men. It's a condition that's common
among Americans, right, and we're talking about Black American men
(02:29):
predominantly on this show. But if we got listeners anywhere,
that's cool. Then diabetes is common in general, especially in America,
and so therefore its prevalence exists among black men. Their
emotional and psychological burden can be heavy so that's why
we're here talking about it during Men's Mental Health Month.
There are some you know, some of the things that
(02:50):
people deal with shame, isolation, fatigue, denial fatigue meaning mental
fatigue not in addition to physical fatigue. So our goal
for today is to unpack both sides of the challenges
associated with it for both the body and the mind.
Right and this one, you know, like I said, both
(03:12):
John and I are Type two diabetics, but we're also
blessed to have John being an internal medicine doctor, and
so you know, having somebody that I trust and I
have trusted for decades, and knowing that he's got the
technical expertise, the knowledge and the experience. He lives in
another part of the country for me, so we're not
(03:33):
close physically. So I have my own regular doctor who
I deal with, but every conversation I have with my doctor,
almost every conversation, I share it with John because you know,
I'm like, hey, this is what we talked about, this
is what he told me, this is what I told him.
Does that sound right?
Speaker 2 (03:51):
That's it? You know.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
So it's always been that way and always was, like,
you know, as soon as John said he was going
to medical school. I was like, well, cool you our
doctor from now on, you know, just like you know,
it was like, well, I'm gonna be a lawyer, will
cool you my lawyer? Then he went and married once,
so you know, I'm not so he got his own
lawyer in the house.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
But you still my back though, you still got you go.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
So you know, we're bringing today's conversation from that that
dual perspective, the perspective of people dealing with it as
well as the perspective of a of a doctor who's treated,
you know, countless patients and currently treating patients and helping
them navigate the world of diabetes. So let's jump on
into it. John, you got any opening remarks before we
(04:39):
get into what we got planned since I had, you know,
gave that spiel.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Yeah, I think you set the stage excellent, my brother.
So it's a matter of us understanding that we are
to middle aged black man, some genetics that are probably
involved in some of this as well that we're going
to talk about, but also how we you're dealing with it,
and and like you said, us getting into the story
of how me being a physician that's helping them manage
(05:07):
patients with this, but yet I'm living with it along
with them as well. So to shared experiences I think
have become very helpful as it relates to taking care
of people with diabetes and us trying to just understand
how impactful this can be for us, you know, mentally, emotionally,
(05:29):
you know, socially and as well. So I'm excited, excited
about the conversation today.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
That's dope, let's get into it. So I'm going to
start off by sharing some of my personal experience. I'm
gonna let's let's start with the diagnosis story. You know,
that's my origin story, right, I'm a superhero now my
origin story. As far as becoming a diabetic. I'm actually
working on another podcast and John has actually heard this
(05:56):
first episode that I haven't started. I haven't published it yet,
but it's breaking the sugar cycleist so we'll talk, and
that one is focused on diabetes primarily. It's going to
be a year long podcast that's that's following my journey.
And so in that one, I talked a little bit
about how it all began. But for me, basically, one
of the issues that can come about being a diabetic
(06:19):
is that it can cause dry skin, it can cause
extremely dry skin, and so to get a little too personal,
I was having a little problem with the skin on
my manhood, dry skin for all kinds of problems. So
I ended up at the er right went there to
the because I was like, I need somebody to talk
(06:40):
to somebody, doctor, what's going on? Look at this? And
so he, you know, helped me with my immediate concerns
and then said you need to go see your doctor.
I didn't have a doctor. I was an irresponsible young
man at that point. You know, I still believed I
was immortal at that point, like so many young men,
(07:00):
and I think I had good reason to believe I
was immortal. I had been run over by a car before,
I had fallen out of a car doing like thirty
five on the road before. I was in a car
that rolled over, flipped over three times, walked away with
no broken bones. Had never broken a bone in my
body up to this point. So in my mind, some
of my you know, immortality or feelings of immortality were warranted.
(07:23):
But you know, you don't know what's going on on
the inside just because the outside looks good. I went
and made an appointment, went to see a doctor, got
a physical, and he said, if everything is fine, you'll
just get a letter from me in the mail. If
anything's not right, you'll get a call from me. I
got a call the next day say and get your
ass back in my office, now, you know. And it
was pretty much just like that. The doctor was a brother.
(07:45):
So your blood sugar was somewhere, you know, like over
three hundred. You're a diabetic. Okay, well I'm a diabetic.
I don't They don't even know what that meant really,
you know, just it was a diagnosis. You know, home,
I tell my mother, well, not go home. I talked
to my moms. She's like, well, yeah, I'm a diabetic too.
(08:07):
Your and so and so is a diabetic here, cousin,
it's such a such a diabetic. This person's diabetic. I'm like, well, damn,
I didn't know about all of these diabetics all up
and through my family because you know, we weren't talking
about it. But that was the So that was how
I learned that I was a diabetic. So you know,
now it was like, okay, well, what does this mean
(08:28):
and what am I supposed to do? Well, you know,
here's this pill. You know, we're gonna put you on
this pill, see if we can. You don't get this
under control? Okay. So I started taking the pill every
day like I was supposed to. I went to see
a nutritionists and you know, they taught me about portion
sizes and told me, you know, this is the amount
(08:49):
of carbs you should have every day. And so I
had to learn what carbs were. You know, i'd heard
the term carbohydrate before, I didn't have a clue what
it meant prior to this. You know, I was pretty
decent student in terms of chemistry and stuff like that,
so you know, I can understand that stuff once it's
broken down to me. But yeah, I didn't know about
any of that kind of stuff. I didn't know about
tracking my meals. I didn't know anything about, you know,
(09:12):
testing my blood sugar. So that's all of a sudden
that had to something that had to start happening on
a daily basis. You know, prick yourself every day and
test your blood sugar and you do it multiple times
a day and before meals and all of these kind
of things and what's your A one C and you know,
all of these different things that now I had to learn.
But even with all of that you know, frankly, it
(09:35):
really was still not that big a deal to me,
because you know, for me, this was might have been
the slightest chink in the armor. So maybe I'm not
truly immortal, but I'm still might be like a god.
You know, I might not be God, but I might
be like, you know, a Norse god, you know, or
something like that, you know, or you know how certain
movies to guys who over time they lose some of
(09:56):
their power. Right, So I'm a demi god, maybe I
but you know, not feeling truly immortal, but still not
really getting it, not probably taking it as seriously as
I could have or should have at that point in time.
So this was somewhere probably around two thousand, two thousand
and one, somewhere in there. So I've been a diabetic
for about twenty five I've been diagnosed as diabetic for
(10:19):
about twenty five years. Once I learned what I was
really dealing with and the symptomology and all of that
kind of stuff, I can say I was probably a
diabetic for about a year or two before I was diagnosed.
I'm sure that's the case for a lot of people
because it's a slow creeping thing. Right, it's not like
one day you're a diabetic. Not slow creeps and eases
in and it's that it's the frog and the boiling water, right,
(10:41):
you turn it up slow enough, he might not never
know until he's dinner, you know. So it was that
kind of thing, I think. So I didn't emotionally probably
what I didn't Probably I probably didn't really pay attention
to my emotions at the time, you know, I don't
think I was. I think too. As aged, we become
a little better about understanding our emotions, and I look back,
(11:04):
I don't think, you know, I know. And as we
were looking at this, one of the things I was
thinking about touching on was the emotional roller coaster. There
really was no emotional roller coaster in the beginning. It
was this is something that you that it's happened, you're
diagnosed with it. Here are the steps that you need
to take. Okay, Because of my mind, it wasn't gonna
really be a big deal, you know, And I don't
(11:25):
think I really understood the progressive nature of the disease
at the time and how it can even if you're
doing what you're supposed to do, it could still progress, right,
so I think I think that was I didn't really
I didn't notice physical changes to me at that time.
Over time, I've noticed those and accepted those physical changes.
(11:48):
But at the beginning, when I was first diagnosed, didn't
have all of that kind of stuff. So in your experience, John,
how often do black men open up about the emotional
side of diabetes? Because you know, I said, I think
over time that that became real to me, but in
the beginning that that emotional part, and I think part
of that for me was youth. But how long can
(12:08):
you know in your in your world as a as
a doctor, in your clinical world, do black men open
about the emotional side of it?
Speaker 1 (12:15):
That's a great question, rich And I think that with experience,
and this is not not bringing in my personal journey
yet into this, but as I take care of people
for all ages, adults will say that are being diagnosed
with diabetes, each person has their own reaction to it.
Some of them are like, Okay, you know, I get it.
(12:36):
They have knowledge that their family has diabetes, and I
know that this is something that need to be concerned about,
but you know that's not gonna happen to me type deal,
because I'm going to do this, that and the other
and stay fit. I'm gonna eat right, and it's just
not gonna happen. I've had some that are like, oh
my goodness, Doc, you're trying to tell me I have
(12:59):
to get on the shop.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
I'm like, no, we're not at that point. You know.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
We're still just talking about how we can manage this
would just diet and exercise. And that opens their eyes
because they're like, oh, I just thought once you were diabetic,
you were on the shots on insulin for this, and
we have a conversation about what does that mean and
what does that look like as well? And then I
met right exactly exactly.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
I'm not gonna go on to alais.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
And all of that as well, and what's it looked
like as far as checking blood sugars and and oh
my goodness, this is the this is it.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
I'm done.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
And it's like, no, But I have some that are
in denial. You know, I have somewhere I have to
continuously have the conversation that no, you have to understand
you have diabetes and we have to manage this, because
if you keep saying you're in denial of having it,
(13:59):
then you're not actually preparing yourself to be better with
the diagnosis. And that sometimes is where we got to
have multiple conversations and visits to understand that point and
knowing that, hey, and you've got to realize this too,
Rich by being diagnosed with diabetes isn't a death sentence
at all. It's an awareness, you know, it's awareness of
(14:22):
things that we have to do to take care of
our health and wellness.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
To be right, diagnosis is a good thing if you
got it. The diagnosis is a good thing. Right. Sooner,
the sooner you know, the better.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Right, And that's absolutely true from a scientific standpoint, The
sooner you know the better because it still works on
your body even though you may not be feeling the.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Effects of it.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
But if you're aware and you're starting to do the
things that we need to do to take care of ourselves.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Then exactly denying that you know you're feeling it because
some of the changes that are happening to your body
as a result of diabetes, you might not you might
assume that those are regular changes. They're not right, or
they're aging, you know, as you get older. You know,
(15:16):
I'm a firm believer in that saying you're not old.
You just need to stretch right.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
There, you go. Right.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
So, a lot of times things that we are associating
with getting older, that's more of being an American getting older.
You know, when we look at our diet and our
lifestyle and things of that nature. You were talking about
the things you see in your patients to denial, the
fear medication. You know, this notion of I think is
really huge. And just what you see right here, this
lack of education. I think we're you know, we're predisposed
(15:44):
because you know, there's diabetes, and like I said, it's
all over America, it's all over the black communities, and
so we all know people. It's like you know, in
my day job, I deal with crime right all the time.
And and one thing always says that everybody thinks they
know more about the criminal justice system than they do
because everybody, because crime touches everybody in some way directly
(16:05):
and directly, especially in the black community, diabetes touches us
all directly or indirectly. Right, we all get family or
friends or we directly you know, suffer from this ourselves.
And so I think a lot of people think they
know more about it than they do. And so those
opportunities for people like you to make sure we're getting
the right information. You know, it's really huge, you know,
(16:27):
talk about this notion, this cultural stigma. This is really
kind of I think tying into mental health piece about
you know, this notion of just man up or you
know how we always say we don't really want to
talk about mental health stuff in our community. Ain't nothing
wrong with you, man?
Speaker 2 (16:40):
You fine, right right right now.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
So I'm gonna do it this way through a little
bit of a personal reflection on this as well. So
you know, again, I'm an internal medicine physician, right so
I'm taking care of people with diabetes, health issues, mental
health issues on a daily basis. And I go in, I,
you know, see my my physician just for my yearly checkup.
(17:05):
This is probably probably about ten, probably ten to fifteen
years ago, going in and similar having my lab work
done and everything, and got my labs back and it
was like, wait a minute, you know, my A one
C was you know, like six point three. So at
this point I'm like pre diabetes here, I'm like, oh
(17:25):
my goodness, what the heck? You know is this about
type deal? And you know, understanding that it's hard for
a physician to talk to another physician that actually does
this on a day in day in basis. You see
what I'm saying. So now my doc has to try
(17:46):
to talk to me and still remember that I'm his
patient versus Yeah, I know this already, but in essence,
I need you to kind of tell me what's going
on though it is Well if that makes sense, you.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
Yeah, I get you.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
It's it's like I needed to hear from him. Okay, John,
you've got diabetes or you have free diabetes. At this point,
this is what you need to do. You know, you
got to you know, you know you have to work
on this, this and this in order to try to
prevent this from happening. But he also knew my family history,
and my family history was diabetes. So I'm already, you know,
(18:29):
knowing that eventually this is going to hit. You know this,
This is where knowledge comes in and me, you know,
not trying to fool myself saying that, Okay, I know
if I do this, this and the other, I'm not
gonna get diabetes. Well that's not necessarily true. You're going
to help continue to keep yourself healthy and well to
(18:49):
the point that I'm hopefully delaying this process that's going
on with diabetes, but genetically it's going to happen.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Type deal.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
It's just a matter of when, in and and to
what impact is going to have on me at that
point or on our bodies at that point. So I
did this and that and everything else. And then a
few years after that was when my ANC hit the
six point five mark, which is the which is the
diagnosis of diabetes at that point. So I started like wondering,
(19:24):
you know what, almost to the point of disbelief myself.
I'm like, wait a minute again, I'm an internal medicine physician.
I know about this thing. Why is it that I'm
not able to control this better than what I think
I should be able to control it? As knowing that, yes,
(19:46):
working on your diet, exercise and keeping your weight down,
avoiding high carb high sugar content products is a way
to try to help delay this process. Type did, getting
my record to check ups, my eyes examined, and all
that other good stuff as well. But yet here and
still I have diabetes. So it took me a moment
(20:08):
before really sharing that, you know, with people. Yeah, my
wife knew, she knows everything about my health and everything.
But then I have to tell my kids, you know,
this is something that you guys are going to have
to look out for as well, you know, as you're
getting older. But then to share that with my family,
I mean with my with my other family, and I
(20:29):
was considering you guys as my families. I don't even
say friends really all my family, but then my family
my friends, and how does that, you know, how does
that look? I was concerned that are they going to
judge me by having diabetes and my ability to be
a doctor, right, and was I able to to not
(20:52):
do something to stop this from happening, But realizing hey,
I'm human, just like all the rest of us out here, are.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Never crossed my mind because well, you know, being a
diabetic too, and no understanding the reality of that genetic component.
Because for me, you know, at my heaviest weight, I
weighed two hundred and forty pounds sick. I'm six five.
You know, that was that was a nice weight for
being an NBA small forward, right, you know, because at
(21:20):
that point, you know, I was really I was really
active at that heavier. Right now I weigh one eighty five,
same frame, but that's but no, so I never For me,
it was never. I never once you told me, once
you disclosed that to me. I never thought about it
being something that you neglected to do or something like that.
You would never now if you had gotten up to
(21:41):
three hundred pounds, talked about you. But you know, as
a best friend, I would have been like, dude, what's
wrong with you? You know you're a doctor. You know better
than this that you shouldn't be that heavy, right, But
you know that's different from you know, something that where
there's a genetic predisposition. We won't even say that you're
genetically guaranteed to have it, but you're genetically pretty damn
(22:02):
near guaranteed, you know.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Right right right?
Speaker 3 (22:06):
You know you know yeah, because that's that's how it's
for me. Like I said, I've never been I've never even,
like I said, even at that point when I way
two forty, I was, I was in great shape, you know,
and I was my size. That wasn't you know, if
you get on your B and I and do all
of that kind of stuff, I wouldn't have been obese,
you know, right. So it was it's about the genetics,
(22:28):
I think that component. So you know I never judged you.
We never did.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Yeah, no, and I know it.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
And I think that's what helped me even more was,
you know, I started recognizing that because I have a
medical illness does not make me inferior to anybody or
or my ability to still take care.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Of people as well too.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
It makes it do.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
I appreciate you, I appreciate you. So after COVID hit,
that was when I actually started opening up to my
patience that hey, I have diabetes with you, okay, so
you know you're not going through this journey alone type deal.
You have to go through it, and believe me, what
(23:14):
I'm asking you to do, I'm actually asking myself to
do as well too, So.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
I gotta stick myself every day.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
YEA, right, Yeah, it sucks.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
It sucks, right, you do. But now we don't. Right now,
we don't. That's right, you know, that's right. But I'm man, man,
I'm twenty five years into this mess. Man, man, I
pricked my fingers so many. You know, it's the winter
time that's the worst.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
It gets real Carolina.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
You don't know, but in Chicago, you're taking your blood
sugar in February is one of them. Even if you've
been in the house all day, you know, with the
heat on eighty you know, the cold still finds its
way into the crib and it gets to your fingers,
it gets to those fingertips.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
It's just that's right, that's right, oh man.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
So yeah, so the struggles there and knowing that you know,
it's real and and I think it gives me a
perspective to know, Okay, I can imagine this person is
going through something as well. So it helps me with
that personal understanding to now, you know, be able to
help that person try to understand.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
A little bit better what are you going through?
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Not just this physical aspect, but tell me, you know
more about what do you think about now that we've
talked about this diagnosis, and then we can help try to,
you know, erase the myths that are out there and
you know, support some truths you know about things that
can be done as well.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
Let's I'm gonna talk a little bit about emotional low points.
Let me kind of I'm gonna kind of touch because
I mean that is a reality, right we You know,
I don't know that I blamed myself. I think honestly,
I blame mine. I blame my family. I blamed my
parents initially for not talking about it, considering the you know,
(25:07):
the number of family members who have are dealing with
this condition that I didn't know about prior to my diagnosis.
You know, I'm like man I used to be, you know, man,
I would be Max and Snickers on the regular. You know,
for me, I you know, I'm a pretty big guy, right,
not I'm not huge, but you know, in terms of
(25:27):
non NBA people, I'm above average size. I'm about six
y five.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Right.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
For me, the ideal beverage size was a one Leader bottle. Right,
most people hold that sixteen ouns twenty houns bottle. That
one Leader bottle fits my hand perfectly, like that little
sixteen ouse fits most other people. So I could watch
an NBA game and drink two of those you know,
you know, even seven up either seven up of doctor pepper.
(25:53):
Now that's all the sugar you need for a week, right,
and I to max that thing. And you know, during
a game or doing again, I could drink two Leaders
of pop doing a game. You know, that's two and
a half hours right over that time. You know that's
a leader or a half. You know, we're drinking and
talking or whatever. So you know, just all of the
sugar you ever need, right, was just you know, And
(26:13):
I'm like, nobody ever told me that, you know, I think. So,
I'm like, you know, this notion that you're you're coming
from this perspective of knowing better as a doctor, but
me not knowing the family history now, you know. So
prior to that, I had no I had no concept
of too much sugar could hurt anything. Right, my whole life,
I've been doing maxim on sugar. And as I look
(26:35):
back at it, that's like, it makes sense I'm a
diabetic or at that point I was predisposed. Of course
I would love sugar more than everything else in life. Right,
But so, had somebody ever been told me when I
was younger, you need to lay off, that you shouldn't
be doing all of that. Don't you know all of
your family members? You know? So and so that I
did not know that my my cousin had gotten transplants
(26:58):
and then wasted trans plans, you know, before his demidse
May he rest in peace. I love you because but
the things I learned later in life. Had somebody told
me when I was younger, when there was an opportunity
to put me on the path that might have delayed it. Again,
it might not have stopped it, but it might have
delayed it. You know, I might not have become a
diabetic in my early thirties. I might have become one
(27:21):
in my fifties, you know, which might have delayed some
of the physical damage I did to my body. As
you talked about the eye tests and stuff like that. Yeah,
I've had some macular degeneration issues because of not being
responsible about it. So yeah, you know, this notion of
some of the emotional low points, blaming yourself, feeling like
a failure when numbers are high. I don't really struggle
(27:43):
with that, like I used to some of the things
I've never done. I know some people will hide, will
avoid doctor visits because they don't want to hear the truth,
things like that. I know you, I know you and
I we've talked before about the importance of being honest
with your doctor. You know, it's the same thing as
a former trial lord, you knowing all you saw was
say you tell your lawyer everything. That's the one person
(28:04):
who you need to tell the complete whole truth too,
so they can fully leave and they can't tell nobody
they want to still be a lawyer. They can't tell
nobody same thing you doctors. Doctors tell them everything. But
you said one thing to me one day years ago
that that has always stuck with me. And it's and
you said, tell your doctors the truth because they know
when you're lying anyway. Yeah, yeah, don't lie to me.
(28:31):
I'm reading the right.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
I can see it right here.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
I got when you say to me that you haven't
done such and such in years, or when you say,
I'm saying to myself, you a goddamn lie to the public.
John would to say that that's not his that's not
his style. He wouldn't say you a goddamn lie.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
That was me.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
John would say, are you sure I'll tell you because
what I'm saying here is that looking like that? But
it's the same thing. It got damn right, I see
this here. But so you know, don't lie to your doctors.
But I think you know, that's kind of one of
those human nature things, right, that denial. The denial is
so strong, and that that notion that it is not
(29:15):
your fault when you didn't know about your family genetics.
It's not like that's something that happens every day. In America, Right,
we don't hand out twenty three and me cards to everybody,
you know, as soon as you roll up and hear, hey,
welcome to to life. Here's your family history, here's every
disease that you might be predisposed to. Here's the foods
(29:35):
you should be eating based on your genetics. I'm looking
forward to the day that we get there. I want
to I want a script, I want to know them.
These are these are the twenty best foods for you
based on your genetics.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
You know it.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
Is common, so you know with but this, this, this,
these emotional challenges, you know, I think people do. I
think that. Don't blame yourself for not knowing. Just go
learn right, right, don't blame yourself for your failures. Right
on those days when you eat the wrong things, it's
gonna happen. Nobody's purfect all the time. The most the
(30:12):
most disciplined people do a really great job. But even
they have days, right, they might not fall away, they
might not fall way off like you've been falling off lately.
That's a generic you, that's not a John you, that's
a general kid. But I'm saying that those days because
I have those days, right, there areas when I just
(30:33):
say it, I'm about to eat this, you know. Ye
One thing I try to do, even on those days
when I say if it I'm about to eat this,
I try and go for a walk afterwards, you know,
I try and do something else to mitigate it a
little bit. I don't know if it's to help the guilt,
but but what it really is for me is is
(30:53):
to help to push the numbers back now, because I'm
always looking at it like that, and so I'm like, so,
you know, when the numbers go, I'm a dawn effect
guy right every morning, no matter what I eat that night.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
If you look at.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
I'm a dex comm. I'm a dex com where I
have a CGM, so I can see my numbers all
the time, so I see what happens overnight, and I
see right after the alarm goes off when I wake
up in the morning, I go up thirty points. I'll
be around eighty eight ninety somewhere while I'm sleep every night,
(31:28):
even if I do something stupid the night before and
eat something and eat a whole piece of chocolate cake
and send my numbers up over two hundred by the
time about four about two three in the morning's then
went all the way down about four am. I'm an
eighty and then around. I wake up every morning at
six thirty, and my body knows it. At six thirty,
(31:51):
it turns on. It goes up thirty points, and then
it stops. It doesn't matter what if I don't eat,
do eat whatever, it's going up, and so if what
I eat is going to go up on top of that,
you know, if I eat something sugar with something with
sugar in it or something like that. But if I
eat what I normally eat in the morning, I have
some unsweetened yogurt with some chia seeds and some walnuts.
(32:13):
That's pretty much my daily start every day. That doesn't
move me at all, but it's already gone up thirty
points because as soon as I wake up. So I've
learned to accept the reality of what my body does.
I've learned to accept how it moves through that stuff.
And so I don't don't I don't have the guilt,
(32:34):
I don't feel bad, and I know when I eat
what I'm not supposed to. I've gotten my overall metabolism
to a point where I can have the occasional indulgence,
and I go up and I come back down. I
don't go up and stay up like I used to
when I wasn't doing better. I still haven't gotten my
A one to where I want it to be all
(32:54):
the time, but my metabolism is now in a place
where I don't have to feel guilt you about doing stuff.
I go to the doctor, you know I don't. It's
that's the most important thing, is to have those conversations
I think with the doctor.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Well, I'm going to add to that real quick, too, Rich.
Is that something touched on earlier that I wanted to
definitely get back to is that you know, we're in
a generation where we actually are starting to understand the
importance of knowledge. You've been touching on that a lot,
and knowledge is not just personal as to your health,
but us need to understand the health of our parents
(33:36):
and older siblings and things as well, because we live
in that generation where we're taking care of them ourselves
and our kids behind this type dude, So we have
to try to get to or have to start asking
those questions because the generation before us, they didn't share
(33:56):
that information with anybody. They kept that to themselves. If
you had anything going on. It was deemed a weakness
in them type deal. When no, you have the knowledge,
you can get better, which makes you actually stronger than
the person who's not sharing that information in order to
gain a knowledge to be better at it as well.
(34:18):
So we have to encourage our audience. Hey, start asking
the questions. Okay, start asking the questions about what tell
me a little bit about your health, or go to them,
but to go with them to the doctor, find out
and hear for yourself what's going on. And you find
out all kinds of stuff that you didn't know was happening.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
And you like, what way did you say this? You
know what?
Speaker 3 (34:42):
My mother, my mother only goes to the most routine
appointments by herself. You know, she goes, you know, she
does her she goes and does her laps work by herself,
because you know, but anything other than that, either myself
or my wife is going and you know, she might
have questions, but we got questions too, and we're in
the room with her because we're not going to rely
(35:03):
on her to relate that information because it's the same thing,
you know, right, we want the full story, you know,
we want the full facts, and I want my questions
answered directly by the doctor.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
And that's because you love and care for that person.
Are the generation before us didn't understand that though again
there are our Superman and our you know, Storm or
our Wonder Woman or whatever, our black panthers, so we
(35:35):
couldn't see, or they felt like we couldn't see that
they had issues going on, even though we could see
that there's things going on with them. But that's where
we've got to get to the point where no us
having that conversation, as you said, may have helped us
to delay some of this stuff till later in life
(36:00):
versus early in life where things are starting to continue
to work on our body. So you're right, maybe we
wouldn't have had those those those what was it, the
big gulps at the seven eleven's and things like that,
like we used to smash Ideal, you know, theys and
(36:21):
smash that sucker man and all of that stuff if
we had known, because now it's like, okay, now I've
got to make a decision.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
Am I gonna make the decision and I'm gonna still
do this here?
Speaker 1 (36:38):
Or hey, you know, maybe I am not gonna do
that much of that right now? You know, I might
have these French fries, but I ain't gonna have that
shake along with it type.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
And then you see what I'm saying, that's often the
choice I'm making is if I want a little sweet treat,
what am I giving up?
Speaker 2 (36:56):
Right?
Speaker 3 (36:57):
What am I giving up along the way so that
I can have that? And rack in that choice? And then,
you know, because it was, you know, I was really
upset with myself the other day, got caught up. It
was a National Donut Day. Also, I got to have
a donut, right, and I wasted most of the day
didn't get a donut. And so then I'm going and
making a running and erran and doing something. And you know,
McDonald's sells those Krispy Kremes. But you know, the truth
(37:21):
of the matter is Krispy Karan that's having tasted good
for about a decade.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
That's because y'all getting them old used ones. You gotta
come to North Carolina.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
You come to North and they're still like that good
because they changed the formula. It's what I'm saying. It's
not the Krispy Kreme of fifteen years ago. You know,
they've become two mass produced and so it's long story short,
I got a Krispy Kurring donut and was so disappointed. Man, No,
I wasn't disappointed. I was pissed off. I paid two
do fifty for a single donut that that just was
(37:54):
just nasty. And I'm like, Virgina was like, how was it?
I was like, it was disgusting. I took two bites
and threw it away. I said, the only reason I
took the second bible was because I paid for that
thing and I refused to just throw the whole thing away.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
That's right, it was.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
It was flat out disgusting. Oh and I was really
disappointed by the whole thing because I always say, you know,
the bottom line is is make it special. Make it
a tree. If I'm going to eat something a tree,
make it a tree, right, you know, and make it
you know, And so that wasn't that was not worthy
of treat status.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
And make it a reasonable tree. You know, it doesn't
have to You don't have.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
To go glutting us with the tree, and the tree
is still enjoyed the tree.
Speaker 3 (38:33):
See, that's the thing I do.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
Go overboard.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
I've mastered this, dude, I've mastered going. You know, we'll
go out to a restaurant or something, and I'll pick
the most decadent thing dessert on the menu. I'll take
two bites and push it away and walk away, and
people be looking at me like what what was it? Nasty? Like, No,
that thing was delicious and it was like delicious, yeah,
but that's all I can have of that right right?
(38:56):
Looking at it? Right, that thing was like fourteen dollars,
I was like, well, you know, I mean.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
I got my fourteen dollars work, so.
Speaker 3 (39:05):
The last taste tastes the same, so just right exactly,
you know. So we got to do that, man. So
let me ask you a question, because you know, we
I think we kind of had a script for those
of you out there who don't know. But yeah, so
let's we're talking about coping, healing, and redefining strength in
this segment. So what's helped me deal with being a
(39:27):
diabetic over all these years? I'd say, for me, a
couple of things that I lean on, and that's my podcast.
Brothers are my part of my primary support group. I
think education is very important, as John and I've talked
about knowing what's going on, knowing how things work, knowing
what's actually happening. With my body helps in a great way.
(39:49):
I think spiritual grounding is very important that I think
helps with this whole mental health part of it. That
we're talking about the reality of it, right, I do
have I don't have a therapist, that I do have
a spiritual guide. I do journal. So for me, you know,
having and with my spiritual guide that comes with one
on one conversation as well as a small group of
(40:12):
brothers that that we get together we talk about once
a month about our different challenges, so, you know, finding
ways to deal with and getting out. I think part
of it for men, I think is having that place
to be able to get things out and say them
and talk about them.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
Right.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
I think one of the things that men automatically want
to do is we want to fix things right. I
know a lot of times the ladies in our lives say,
I don't need you to fix nothing, just shut up
and listen, don't tell me. Right, but that and so right.
I think we struggle with that for ourselves too. But
having opportunities to share, bounce ideas off of each other
and show up for each other and provide support and
(40:52):
ideas and suggestions and recommendations or sometimes just being able
to say, yeah, you know, uh huh that a well
played just like that. Sometimes a well placed m can
be very effective because I'm hearing that, you hear that,
you're feeling what I'm going through, and you're empathizing with it.
And for me as a black man, sometimes that's all
(41:13):
I need. We're not naturally open to just like all right,
you know, give me all of this, but a little something,
you know, can can be beneficial. You know, so I
think that you know so so from your you know,
from your doctor's perspective, what should we be doing differently
as black men when it comes to managing both the
physical and the mental side of our condition. We've talked
(41:33):
a lot about the physical side, but how black this
is men's health money, how do how do we tie
that in?
Speaker 2 (41:40):
You know?
Speaker 3 (41:40):
What? What should we be doing differently or more of
what do you think?
Speaker 2 (41:45):
Nah?
Speaker 1 (41:45):
I think you've hit on a lot of great opportunities
and options there, rich and and and one of it
is that we've got to understand that when we're having
stressors going on, be it physical, co being mental, be
it emotional, be it psychological, we've grown thinking that we
(42:05):
can do that and take care of that on our own,
and what we've learned is that we really can't, and
we do a bad job if we try to do
it that way. So we've got to get comfortable with
having our network, our village, our family, our folks that
we know we can have safe conversation with and not
(42:27):
feel like I'm being judged because of what I'm saying
or how I'm feeling. And sometimes that takes time, you know,
it takes time to maybe build that kind of network,
but it's necessary. I tell folks, hey, my wife is
you know, she's she's great, she's golden. But some things
I need to share with like you guys, you know,
(42:48):
I need to share with you and Greg.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
I need to share with you.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
Know, Richard Lindsay or you know, my other crew about
some things going on or sometimes I shared.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
We have actually we've helped start.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
A Man Talk to here where I live, and we
meet two times a month to just have men be
able to come out and be able to feel comfortable
sharing what's going on. Try to give them some uplift,
try to give them some advice, try to give them
some recommendations. But like you said, you know, as man,
we typically want to try to fix things, but we
(43:21):
have to present it in a way that no, I'm
not here to fix you, but I'm here to at
least give you my experience and then maybe you can
find something from that that may help you on your
journey now as well, and recognizing that, hey, you not alone.
So like with diabetes, I'm not alone in this thing
(43:41):
having diabetes. You see what I'm saying. You're not alone
in this thing having diabetes. Prostate cancer another affliction that
you know disproportionately affects black men.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
You're not alone.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
But yet we go into that mindset, Oh, man, I
must be the only one dealing with prostate cancer.
Speaker 3 (43:59):
This you know what it is not It's the fingerwave, man,
it's the finger.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
I know.
Speaker 1 (44:07):
That's the other part of that that I got to
get through some folks mentally.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
That's the way.
Speaker 3 (44:12):
That's what. That's what, that's what. That's tripping up a
whole lot of black men. Man.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
We'll talk about that another time.
Speaker 3 (44:23):
That's a whole episode.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
That's a whole other episode. That's right. But but it's uh.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
But I would say doing the things like you said, man,
just being able to reflect, going to therapy, you know, whatever,
that looks like for you, nothing is wrong.
Speaker 3 (44:39):
So back up, hold on, back up, and have it
just for a moment, because you know, as soon as
you say that going to therapy, you know half our
audience just bristled up. So let's just say this, having
a conversation with a professional, right.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
Right, Exactly, that's what we call it, having a conversation
with the professional. Right, go have one and going with
the understanding that they're not there to give you the
answer though, or to judge you or to judge you. Exactly,
it's their profession. They can't go talk to that to nobody,
(45:14):
you know what I'm saying. So, like we talked about
you being an attorneyman being a doctor, they are a professional.
So whatever you're sharing with them, they can't go out
and just have conversation with everybody. Oh you know, Joe
just told me about so and so, so and so
type deal. Heck no, otherwise you own they practice, so
what I'm saying, But that's what that is like.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
So no, so be comfortable.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
And yet you have to be comfortable with whomever you
have in that conversation right as well, right right right,
Or let's be real, you're wasting your time in their time,
you know what I'm saying, and your money.
Speaker 3 (45:51):
So that discovery, so you're so right, that discovery, that
initial discovery piece of it, that initial part of the
conversation figuring out is this the person that I can
feel comfortable with? Because and so that's that's gonna be
a vibe and that might mean that you have to
have more than one conversation with a professional to get
(46:13):
to get to the professional that you feel comfortable with.
And that's that's another you know, topic we're going to
have because we're going to bring in guests to talk
about that, you know, as it relates to that, that
finding that right person to have that conversation with, because
you know, brothers, there's brothers out there that do this,
out there that do this that you can have those
(46:35):
conversations with. You know that that can aid and that
comfort piece to Joms talking about I'm feeling comfortable about
who you're talking to, about what you're talking with, Because
when I did have the need to have a conversation
with a professional, for me, part of that was I
needed to find a brother and I was able to
and then you know, once we started having a conversation,
(46:57):
it became real clear to me that you know it really,
and I guess that gave me the initial comfort I needed.
But our conversations really had nothing to do with that. Ultimately,
I think on some level, with some of what I
was dealing with, there was a cultural component to it
and a family component to it that he better understood
because he was a black man. So that helped.
Speaker 1 (47:20):
Yes, I agree, and that's why it's important for folks
you know, who resemble our culture is whom we need
to get more of as well, because we feel comfortable
with that. Now again I said our culture because not
everybody that looks like us understands that culture as well,
(47:45):
So you can't just say that. But someone who understands
the culture that you share is whom you're looking for
to try to find some understanding with as well.
Speaker 3 (47:59):
So what is this you know you talked about not
being alone. We've talked I think about this notion of
if something's wrong, you know, or we've culturally we see
this idea not wanting to show the vulnerability. But ultimately,
you know, the greater strength is is accepting who you
(48:20):
are or what you're dealing with and then rolling with it. Again,
going back to what we said earlier. I think the
initial diagnosis was the best thing for me. It took
me a while to accept and grow into it. But
knowing that my body is different from the norm, and well,
we're an American, so I guess my body is kind
(48:41):
of the norm. Right, over half of us have diabetes
now or that, well something like you know, right, what,
seventy percent of Americans are overweight and fifty percent or
ob seventy percent or overweight, something like that, and so
most of us have diabetes or are on that path.
Maybe I'm not so different, but I'm different from the
(49:02):
way that the quote unquote normal person's body works in
all of those respects. I look at it as just
that my metabolism is a little different from the norm,
and as a result of it, I have to do
some things a little differently, and that in and of
itself isn't bad. But knowing what it is or how
it is equips me. I think now better than when
(49:25):
I was younger. I think I'm in better, I'm better
in tune with how my body works. I think I'm
better in tune with my body's needs. I think as
a result of knowing that I'm going to have to
do certain things to stay healthy. You know, I do
them now again, Like you were saying, knowledge and choices, right,
I know better and I try to do better. Some
(49:46):
days I fail in that respect, but I don't beat
myself up. I give myself grace for being less than perfect,
and then I try to work on being better at
those things.
Speaker 2 (49:59):
And I say it like it's rich. Don't.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
Don't say it as a failure, my brother. Nothing's a failure,
you know. It's just I wasn't able to do the
best that I would have liked to have done this day,
and therefore I still have another day. Guy willing that
I can do better type deal, because failure has so
much negative connotations to it that it almost make puts
you in a mindset of I'm never going to get
(50:22):
better with this thing, you see what I'm saying. So
if we change our mindset, we change our ability to
to do better, be better.
Speaker 2 (50:31):
Healed from that as well. So that's why I said
it that way.
Speaker 3 (50:36):
Yeah, yeah, no, I agree with you that that makes
good sense. You know, I'm a firm believer in that
that we we speak things into existence, and then you
know there's even scientific proof to support some of those claims,
right have you? Have you read about the water studies
that were done where you know, the things like that
where they you know, people spoke into into into glasses
(50:57):
of water negative and positive. And then when you look
under the microscope you see you know, the changes in
the water when they freeze it, you know, and that
kind of thing. But you know, there are a lot
of different things over time that are suggested. The way
we speak to ourselves, the way we contributes to our
overall package, the way we you know, everything about us.
(51:18):
It starts with how we look at ourselves and how
we speak to ourselves and how we emotionally support ourselves.
So I think that leads right to your point about
not looking at it as a failure, looking at it
maybe as you didn't achieve your best on this particular day.
But and like again, I'm firmly believing and giving myself
grace in those settings. I think we are getting close
(51:41):
to our closing kind of section here.
Speaker 1 (51:44):
So I'm a touch on this real quick before we
get to that point as well, Richard. It's gonna get
us closer to that point as well. And there's some
things that we were preparing ourselves for for our conversation
today is that, yeah, you know, we all have the
ability to to work on things to help us to
be better at whatever that looks like. Okay, now we
(52:06):
make choices, and that that's you know, God gave us
that that opportunity to make choices. It's how we make
the choice and what choice we make that determines what
that potential outcome.
Speaker 2 (52:18):
May look like. Okay, So if.
Speaker 1 (52:20):
You have a condition like diabetes, as we're talking about today,
and you're gonna have the mindset that well, I'm just
gonna let let things be as they be. They just
gonna be as it's gonna be. And if I'm supposed
to have his diabetes, then I'm just gonna have his
diabetes and so be a type deal. Well, that's the
choice you making. That's not the choice that's being made
(52:43):
for you, though you have the ability to do something
about it. So if you want to change your nutrition,
if you want to change your level of activity, if
you want to change your mindset, getting your rest reduced,
that stress, all of that is going to help you
be better with the diabetes. I tell folks, and you've
heard me say it before, that I try to help
(53:06):
us get to a point that, yes, we may have
health issues, we may have mental health issues that we
have to cope with and deal with, but I don't
want but I don't want it to be that that
has stopped you from living life, because that's not what
this whole thing is about. We've got to understand that, Okay,
I may have this now, all right, let me do
(53:27):
some of these things that I know that can help
me later. Type deal, you know, and if we can
get to that point and keep encouraging each other, which
is why the community is so necessary that we surround
ourselves by, because that's your support, you know, that's your accountability,
(53:48):
that's your your folks that are that are cheering you on.
Speaker 2 (53:52):
Type deal.
Speaker 1 (53:53):
If you don't have that and you just allow yourself
to just woe is me type deal, You're right, you're
gonna be a woe over there, laid up layer, cut
off on dialysis, being like, see this is what I
was supposed to be. Like, No, not if you did
the things you needed to do in order to not
(54:15):
get to that point or at least the lay getting
to that point again as well.
Speaker 2 (54:22):
But that was the decision that you made. Type deal.
Speaker 1 (54:26):
So one of the things that we said is that
it's not just about surviving, especially with diabetes, it's about
living and living life to its fullest.
Speaker 3 (54:38):
That's dope, that.
Speaker 1 (54:40):
Said, my brother, that's this give ourselves and I love
how you say it, give ourselves grace. You know, don't
be afraid of what the diagnosis may be, because again,
if we're able to help diagnose things early, that just
(55:01):
means we are now got a fighting chance to take
care of it. If it becomes too late and we've
diagnosed it where we can't do anything more for you,
then it's like, wow, you know, I'm sorry, you know,
but this is what this looks like versus yep, we're here,
but this is just the beginning. We can slow this down,
(55:23):
we can maybe stop this thing. We may be able
to reverse this thing, but now we got to fight
a chance at doing it. So don't be afraid to
go to your doctors, don't be afraid to go talk
to professionals. Don't be afraid to have conversations with your
family about what's going on with them, because potentially what's
going on with them maybe something.
Speaker 2 (55:46):
That goes on with you as well.
Speaker 1 (55:49):
You are a beautiful person and you have to take
care of yourself before you take care of anybody else.
So always remember that that you have strength, you have purpose,
and you have a willingness to be well.
Speaker 2 (56:14):
Mo Man.
Speaker 3 (56:15):
So if you're newly diagnosed and you're being quiet in
the background, not really saying anything, or if you've got
family members or friends you know who are dealing with this,
you're not broken, you're not alone. You just have a
condition that a lot of us have. But there's still
time to get better. I think getting in there and
talking to your doctor. If you don't have a doctor,
(56:36):
get a doctor. If you don't, you know, talk to somebody.
There's all kinds of ways to get connected to the
professionals that can provide you with the information to get
you on a better path. There's always room to get better,
there's always room for improvement. That you are still above
the dirt, and so as long as you are still
above the dirt, you have opportunities to get better. So
(56:56):
check in on each other, check in on loved one,
check in on those you know who are dealing with
this condition. If you're supporting the loving people who have diabetes,
make sure that you're helping to support them in their
journey towards wellness, Invite them to share with you their
challenges and try and figure out ways that you can
help them deal with this a little better, right, because
(57:20):
it impacts everybody, Right, everybody in the household is impacted.
I mean just from I mean a practical matter. Right,
My dietary choices impact my wife. We're eating the same
foods or a lot of the same foods on a
regular basis, and so the way that I'm dealing with
things are going to impact her because you know, we're
not trying to make two separate meals, right. We're not
(57:40):
gonna have two separate dinners all the time, you know.
And it's not like you know, if you go out
to a restaurant, Yeah, we're each kind of order what
we're ordering, and so in those contexts we might be
eating differently. But at home, you know, we're not making
two separate dinners, breakfasts and lunches every day, right or whatever.
So I mean the reality is is you're.
Speaker 1 (57:57):
Not in it the loan and also long remember that
they're also preparing for their children or their family. So
by you sat in the stage, you helped to prepare
them to be better going and going forward as well.
Speaker 3 (58:12):
Talk about that. Man, that's huge, you know, that is
so huge, and actually internally in my family that's been
some of the biggest fights is you know, looking at
and conversations around, you know, the younger people and the
information that's being or not being shared with them, like,
you know, let them know what's going on. I can
remember my one of my really good friends when they
(58:32):
when their sons were young, and with us visiting them,
they they wanted me to they wanted their sons to
watch me take my insulin shut and so they were intrigued,
Well what are you doing and why? So you know,
we got to talk about all of that. You know,
I'm blessed at this point to not want to no
longer be on insulin. You know, we were able to
reverse that, but yeah, at that time, you know that
(58:55):
was something. Let's use this as a moment of education
for them so that they understood what was going on.
So it's important that you know, you don't travel this
road alone, you know, check in, like I said, checking
in on each other, check in on the people. Thank
you all for listening. I've got a very specific request
if you enjoyed this episode, not only you know, we
(59:16):
always say, you know, subscribe, follow us, share this with
your friends, but I want you to. My specific request
is think about somebody who you think could benefit from
hearing this particular episode, and don't just tell them about it.
Share it with them. Say hey, do you listen to podcasts.
If you don't, this is the one you should start
listening to, and go ahead and share with him that way. Not,
(59:38):
you know, not just because selfishly I want our audience
to grow, but I think that you know, you know,
some people that could benefit from what we're talking about too,
So go ahead and share that out with them.
Speaker 2 (59:49):
Thank you, outstanding, my brother. I appreciate you always.
Speaker 3 (59:54):
All right, thank you. Everybody will talk to y'all real,
so take care. The two people are consistedly s intent,
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