November 25, 2025 • 43 mins
John and Rich discuss the importance of shutting it down. They explore what true rest looks like — and how Black men can unlearn the grind mentality. This episode is brought to you by Holver Travel www.holvertravel.com
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to Raw and Refine, the Gentleman's Hour, where we're
going to have conversation with middle aged black men about
what's going on. We welcome you to listen, comment and like,
and hopefully encourage others to join for future conversations as well.
We always like to start off with a toast. And
(00:29):
with that toast, it's because we are gentlemen and we
do it Raw and Refine.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Welcome back to Roy and Refined. This is rich and
I'm here with John today. It's just the two of
us today, and today we're going to be talking about
something we both had to learn, and that's slowing down.
As always, we like to start off with the beverage.
Today I'm still in the midst of the work day technically,
so I'm sipping on my standard homemade gator We've talked
(01:00):
about before. I standdard e lecture like beverage. You know,
some water, a little lemon juice of a dash of salt,
and a little stevia.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
So that's that's that's what I'm doing in the yetti.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
I suppose as well, right, you know, there you go.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
That's right, that's right. I love it.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
That's our stand and brother I'll stad it now today,
at this time, like you said, just kind of still
in the midst of the day. I'm just really drinking
on some nice refreshing ice water, my friend. So that's
that's what I got going on today, keeping me refreshed,
keeping everything moving.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Excellent, excellent. So we're calling this episode the Art of downtime,
because real rest isn't just about sleep. It's about recovery,
it's about peace, it's about balance, it's about feeding the
whole of you and not just Okay, I'm got to
get a little physical rest. Yes, that is an important
(02:02):
part of it, but downtime is more than just that.
So we're going to talk about what it looks like
for us, why it's so hard to take, and what
it means for our health and happiness. Just like so
many things in life fire us to struggle for us
sometimes to figure out how to or when to take
down time, but we're going to dive into just how
(02:24):
important it really is.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
You ready, John, sounds good?
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Rich, I think this is highly important and on time,
especially as we're getting ready for holiday seasons coming up
and active times of the year, spending with work, family
and friends, and just still trying to find that time
for us, you know, and I say us meaning you
as well, and it's a great time for us to
have this conversation.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
That's so true, man, You think because people are taking
time off around this time of year, but so many
people will blast through the holidays and now they're back
to work full time and then just beat down because
they never had a moment during the holidays. They were
ripping and running and seeing these people are doing this
and doing that. And I gained six pounds because I
(03:10):
was eating everything in my face at everybody's house, you know,
all of that kind of stuff. So yeah, listen, let's
jump on in.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Exactly how many times do we say you need a
vacation from the vacation?
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Right? Man? You know.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
I tried to avoid that, man, but that happened so
many times. You know, Well what did you do? You know,
I went here, and I went there this, and I
saw that it was great.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
But now I'm tired, right.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Right, right right, I gotta go to work tomorrow, right,
no more, no more vacation time, right.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Right.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
So I try to manage that a lot better, and
they kind of start off going way back. Let's go back,
but you know that's often the case. Right we think about,
you know, how we're doing things as an adult, and
it always to have to take that look backward to
how we were raised, how we were brought up, how
we were you know, our foundations were put in place,
and so we'll kind of think about our attitudes towards rest,
(04:18):
you know, work first, rest later, kind of mentality we've
talked about and you know, we did a whole episode
on John Henryism and we've talked another context about our
proclivity for making sure that we get it done. We've
got this, at least for our generation that we found,
thankfully that from the young brothers, the sons and nephew
(04:39):
that they don't necessarily put that same pressure on themselves
that we had. We have to be three times better
or fifteen times better, although I think the pedal in
chief is doing everything he can to make us have
to rethink that or to make this next generation have
to pay a little more attention to that. But this
(05:00):
notion of you know how we've got to work hard.
We've got to keep working, we've got to keep going,
we've got to keep driving forward. We can worry about
you know how many times have you heard that that's saying,
you know you can rest.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
When you did, right exactly, just think right, you know.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
That, and that's that's crazy, But I mean, yeah, it's true.
It's a truism, is what it is. You will you
will rest when you did. But you know, there's other
forms of rest that we need to actively incorporate before
you're dead and an effort to maybe stave off the
dead a little bit.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Exactly exactly the things we can do to try to
not be dead too earlier than necessary.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Right right, our last episode we were talking about hypertension,
talking about how stress plays a role in that, and
I think you know this, this episode presents that incredible
opportunity to delve into one of the best ways to
try and deal with, manage and avoid some of that
stress we were talking about in that last episode. You
(06:03):
know the realities of high blood pressure and stress and
all of that kind of stuff. So downtime we're gonna
use that. We're gonna say, that's kind of an anecdote. Well,
that's one of the one of the things to have
in the in the toolbox to help with that overall wellness,
specifically with that stress related hypertension.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Piece.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
But we were talking a little bit about this kind
of cultural proclivity we have for pushing ourselves so much.
What's your take on that, man, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
I mean, I think for us and our generation you
said it earlier. I think it's just that's how we
were brought up and kind of raised that, you know,
if you're just sitting around and you're being lazy. But
and that's I think now that it's a matter of
you just need time. You need mental rest, you know,
physical rest, spiritual rest, but you need a moment where
(06:55):
your body is just not or your mind is just
not on. And I think that's why it's so difficult,
because we always thought of being busy as being productive,
but that productivity or busyness wore you down so much
that then you weren't as effective in your relationships, in
your job, and in your education. You know, remember going
(07:18):
to school and trying to do these all night cram sessions. Well, yeah,
we may have gotten through, but it took a toll
on us later on. And those are the things that
I think we've learned that you know, we try to
let our folks and our kids and people understand that yes,
there's time to be busy time to be productive, but
for you to continue to be efficient, you need to
(07:41):
also make sure you take good quality time for rest
and relaxation.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Yeah, you made me think back to college when you
were talking about the cram and I remember as a
freshman in college being an engineering student and the finals
week being up for something like three days straight studying
and cramming for finals and taking no dose and drinking
(08:06):
joked cola. You know that that's the one that says
something like twice the caffeine and all the sugar you'll
never need on the on the label something to that effect,
stand up for And I ended up sleeping for you know,
something crazy like eighteen hours after it was all over
because our body.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
Was crashed out.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
But just how irresponsible that is health wise, you know,
right to do something like that. And on the flip side,
having counseled people over the years when they're you know,
preparing for the like the Bargainsam or something like that,
I would always tell people they need to stop studying.
(08:43):
A few days before. I was like, don't cram all
the way up to the end, because you're going to
learn everything. You're going to learn if you're doing what
you're supposed to be doing. It's going to be in there,
you know. And what's more important is is to get
you a really great night of sleep.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
You know.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
The advice I would always tell people is wherever the
test is going to be, you need to get you
a hotel the night before. It's close, that's walking distance
to the test. I'm in Chicago Land, so I'm always
referencing downtown Chicago. You know, that's where we would take
the bar exam at. So it's like, Okay, get you
a hotel close by, and stay there the night before,
(09:23):
as opposed to trying to commute down there and creating
these stressors. And stay down there the night before, get
a great night's sleep, and don't study yep, you know,
like the day or two before, just and then just
going there well rested and do the thing. But that's
kind of what you were talking about. I thought also
was just this notion that if we go back and
(09:46):
we look at from a cultural perspective, some of the
things that have been handed down, passed down beat into
us in terms of how we're supposed to behave, whereas
really a result of slavery and Jim grow and white
people kind of impressing upon us this notion that we
can't be sitting around you know, look at that look
(10:06):
at that lazy nigger over there, right kind of. And
so you know, I think we internalize that to a
certain extent. You know, we got to make sure that
we're not one of them, right, right, So I think
there's a space to kind of push back or overreact,
overrespond and the other, you know, to our own detriment
(10:27):
as well, whether there's still that external pressure or if
it's now just an internal pressure that we create as
a pressure nonetheless culturally that we've you.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
Know, kind of always got to be on or something
like that, right, And there's actual science to back that
up too, Rich, I mean, there's studies that do show,
especially when it comes to getting your rest before exams
or a test of that nature, that you know, getting
your you know, seven eight hours of good rest prior
to an exam has shown better outcomes.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
You know, and scores and stuff too. So I know,
we think, you know, some people may have thought in
the past or think now that ooh, now I got
to keep it going, got to keep that mind fresh,
you know, for this exam, But that's actually putting more
stress on you during that exam and you start touesting
yourself right on what that response is type deal. So
(11:20):
there's science to back it up, my brother, mm hmm, I.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Mean it's the brain is a computer. Think about how
often do you have to overtime? If I just let
my computer run for days and days without restarting it,
without letting it sleep, it's still working, but the working
memory is exhausted, you know, if it's not had a
chance to dump all of the old stuff. It's the
(11:44):
resources become limited. Best way to describe it, and that's
the same thing that happens to our mind. Brain fog
is real. We see that as a result of all
kinds of physical conditions, all kinds of infections, you know,
all kinds of things and create brain fog. It's very real.
We've got limits to our cognitive ability when we're fresh
(12:07):
versus when we're tired or whatever. So let's talk about
this cost, the damage or the damages. You know, the
former lawyer in me thinks about costs in terms of damages.
But let's talk about the cost of neglecting ourselves when
we don't slow down. No, I've burned myself out before
to a certain extent working, but mine the time I
(12:29):
go back to most often, it was a combination of
physical and mental because the physical was when I at
the time, I didn't really understand that I had sciatica
and how it was impacted my body. But I was
still young, and I was playing in the basketball league,
and I was still trying to do that while I
was practicing law and not paying attention to how this
(12:52):
condition was getting worse in the short term because I
didn't know what was going on, right, I'm just I'm
just thinking of something simple. I got a little sore back,
not realizing that it's a nerve thing that's happening. Because
a little crooked. You know, we're all a little we're
all a little asymmetric. And now I understand how, and
(13:15):
you know, I got customer orthotics now, brother, But you know,
so it was a combination of the physical and emotional
burnout because I didn't understand the health piece at the time,
and so you know, part of that this this notion
of keep going, keep going. I'm literally out there because
(13:36):
I'm still at an age where I think I'm immortal.
I'm literally out there playing in this basketball league and
I'm like out there on one and a half legs, basically,
you know, not wanting to accept the reality. But I
need to go sit my hands down somewhere.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
That's true, brother, that's true. What I saying that.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
You know, you just we got to rest the rest
of our life away, you know as well, right, but
you gotta have moments to let that body recuperate, let
it heal, let that mind healed, and relax and get
back to it.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Man. I mean that's what you know.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
As they say, you got to listen to your body.
But before you can even listen to your body, is
you have to you have to first you got to
understand how the language your body speaks. You know, you
have to initiate the conversation. Before you can listen to
your body. You gotta first even understand what that means,
how that works. You know what the signs are that
your body is given you telling you so if you
(14:41):
just living life and not really tuned in to you
know who you are, what this this this vehicle is
that you're that you're moving around, then you know you're
just you're just moving, but you're not really conscious on
that level. You're not paying attention to the signs because again,
as we talked about before, you know, a lot of
(15:01):
our life is really easy to be that frog in
the uh, that frog and the boiling all and the
frog in the pot. You know, the water keeps getting
creeped up. You won't notice the things that have changed,
and you won't notice these minute, slow creeps over time
until something goes. And my case, it was literally one
(15:24):
morning I tried to get out the bed and I
and I and I fell to the floor. I couldn't, couldn't,
couldn't stand up, couldn't support myself, my back and my
that that whole sciatica thing said, Nope, we're shutting you down.
You ain't been listening, been telling your ass for the
last three four weeks that you know, you got some
stuff going on here.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
Right, right, don't listen. That's right.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
And so I should have been listening for a long
time earlier than that, and hadn't been. But I don't
think I even understood at that point what I should
have been listening for.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
Right, you know.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
But part of it in my case too, again, like
I said, still those feelings of immortality. You know, I
accept my mortality at this age. Now I'm trying to
extend and prolong and keep it as good as possible.
Back then, I thought, I could, you know, leap tall
buildings in the single round.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
That's true. That's true, until.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
You run into the side of a building and say, oh, dang,
I really can't jump that.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
Far, right, that's true.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Nah.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
And those are signs, man, I mean back aches, headaches,
belly pains, irritability, not feeling rested after resting.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
These are all signs.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
That's a crazy one.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Man.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
Your body is telling you right about that, you know.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
So I was in bed for eight hours and I
woke up and I just feel tired right right to
be hollered at somebody right, exactly, need to get that
check dog, and right start with that person that you
lay next to, if there is by the next time,
because they'll be able to tell you was you was
snoring loud as hell right right those five times when
(17:09):
I kept telling you to roll over.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
That's why, exactly, that's why you used to exactly exactly nah.
And I think for me, Rich, I think I really
noticed the time when I was diagnosed with diabetes and
high blood pressure. You know, they both kind of hit
at the same time, and it was at a time
that I was really pushing it.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Man.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
I was trying to be the be the end all,
you know, as it relates to health and health care
and medicine and all of that, you know, And then
all of a sudden, I get the diagnosis of diabetes
and high blood pressure. Yes, there's family history and all
of that as well, but I still feel like I
probably could have delayed the onset of that developing if
(17:51):
I paid more attention to balancing the needs of my body.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Man. And you know, yes, we get it. You can
be active, be productive.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
Be engaged with things that are going on around you
and your family, but you also have to make sure
you're taking that time for you in order to have
that balance that's needed. And like you said, our body
will tell us. It'll knock us down if it said,
all right, I gave you these warning signs and you
still weren't listening. I'm gonna knock you out with this one.
(18:22):
And now you're gonna hear me, you know, And unfortunately
that may not be a good thing for us when
that happens as well.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Yeah, I told you to sit down. Now you're gonna
have to lay down right right well to sit down right,
It's as simple as that. On some levels, really, it's
making this has to be part of the package. This
has to be part of the plan. This has to
be you know, on the agenda on a regular consistent basis. Right,
(18:53):
this is this is part of the maintenance that's required.
What it really has to be. And so you know,
when you're thinking about how do I balance work and
how do I balance all the other parts of my life?
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Is well, you you.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Prioritize it. And I think that's something that quite often
is not the case when people talk about downtime. You know,
I think it's really interesting you mentioned irritability as one
and I think, you know, we see that a lot,
and I think part of that is just again, we
talked about culture, but I think often we're talking about
black culture. American culture is really a culture of and
(19:31):
we're seeing it even more so today right now. Right,
everything is pointing to the goal is to try and
make Americans work harder and longer. Right, We're seeing things
stripped away, We're seeing all kinds of changes that are happening,
and they're all designed for the average working person to
have to work.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
Longer and harder.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
And you know, retirement is getting pushed out further away,
and if that actually ever happens for a lot of people,
right and so, if you're not going to have the
opportunit unity to spend twenty years fishing and have the
time to catch up on that downtime, you got to
make it a reality. If your life is going to
(20:10):
be one that you don't ever really get to take
off years right right, you know it's going to retire,
you know you're going to always be working in some capacity,
like we see a lot of Americans seniors that don't
ever get to shut it down all the way because
they can't afford to. So if you don't ever get
to shut it all the way down and retire, if
you're always going to be working, you're always going to
(20:31):
have some of those same pressures. Then that has to
be part of the whole package right right now.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
And there are some companies out there that have, you know,
come to understand that and recognize that. I think some
of our tech based companies have understood that rest is important,
that it's not always a go go go, that you
have to take time for you because they see that
the efficiency improves the more you are are able to
(20:59):
balance that output. And then you know, what do we
do rich We schedule busy time, right, we don't schedule
rest time unless we're putting in the vacation.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
But then you referenced it earlier, but.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Then you planing out the whole vacation, you're like, oh,
I got to make sure I hit this place. I
got to make sure I go do this. I got
to make sure I get their type deal. And we're
going to do that during this timeframe and this and
the other. But where's the rest? I mean, isn't that's
the ucation back to places you've been before. I'm sorry
on your job, but that's the beauty of going back
(21:35):
to places you've been before, because then you're not trying
to go see everything you're not safe seeing. You know,
you just like this place because you know, you keep
coming back here because you like the service, or you
like the food, you like the room, you know, the
view or whatever. And it's easier to build in that
downtime because I don't need to go see nothing.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Already been everywhere here that I want to see, and
I'm coming back here because I like these things specific
or whatever, and it's it's it's a little easier. I
think to kind of build in that instead of having
that planned out trip that so many people do.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
I think that's a great suggestion there, Rich And you're
absolutely right, and I guess we do that too. We
like to go to Aruba, so we go back from
time because we know it, we know the places, but
it's a place where we feel we can really relax,
you know what I'm saying, and still enjoy what it
all has to offer. But we've already seen, you know,
(22:31):
a lot of those places. But just sometimes getting away
helps in that rest and relaxation versus.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
And you still go hit that restaurant that you you know,
you won't necessarily stay at the resort exactly. You might
go to that one spot that you've shopped at before.
You'll go to that one to that restaurant you've been
to before. That's part of the downtime because now you're
not you know, yes you're a visitor, but you're not
a spectator. You know you're not that you're not that
(23:00):
walking around, Right, You're still able to keep more of
your brain shut down, keep right, because you're just going
somewhere to have something to eat that you've been before, Right,
that kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
And I think that when it comes to like these staycations,
you know, where we're staying basically at home and just
taking the time off, you know, I think, in my opinion,
I would keep those at a lesser amount of days
versus you know, along and extension being at home, because
when you're at home, you're still in the environment that
(23:34):
causes you to be busy.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
So you know, there's always fix and stuff, right.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
You thinking about it, I can take care of this, right, right, right,
So you just you replaced work tasks for home tasks. Yeah,
you know, that's a good, that's a good. That's a
good point because I haven't have done that in the past,
taking a quote unquote staycation and still was very active.
(24:02):
You know. You know, the goal is to for me,
downtime is it's just that it's my body is down
and my mind is down, or my mind is occupied
by something that's completely and entirely different from the norm,
and so I'm not doing the normal work thinking, life thinking.
(24:25):
You know, if I'm doing something with my mind and
something that's pure enjoyment, either because it's fun or because
it's kind of challenging and new.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
But you know, right, And for me, I can do that.
I can do that better away than I can at
home because I'm still thinking, well, i'm here, I can
get this done.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
You know.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Maybe now I have extra time to get it done,
but it's still getting it done, Whereas when I'm away, No,
I mean, if I'm not there, I try to try
to get it out of get it out of my
mind to have to work owner and get it done
as well.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
So yeah, I think if you're going to do a staycation,
I think you can deal do effective downtime, but I
think it requires a higher level of intention because of
the reality of this. The reality of these like you're
saying this is you know, that's kind of natural, right,
because that's your everyday environment, that's your home. Right, You've
(25:24):
already you're always thinking in general about things that you
need to do, and now you've got to chunk of time.
And then this goes back again to this notion of
am I being lazy because I'm just sitting around And
it's easier away from home to not feel like you're
being lazy when you're lying around. That's why I can here,
That's why I pay this money so that I could
(25:45):
lay around so I could get them massage, and so
I could do this or do that. But if you
can achieve it with intention, you can achieve it. And
that intention really has to be about feeling that that
time with downtime right. So again, it might require some scheduling,
it might, but what you're doing is is your scheduling
(26:06):
the downtime right. A lot of times when I don't
have when I have days at work, when I don't
have a lot of meetings, I will schedule blocks of
time on my calendar one so nobody else can jump
in there, but two so that I'm kind of shaping
what my day is gonna be. And I'll say, well,
I'm going to work on this from this time to
(26:28):
this time or and then from this time. One thing
that I have on my calendar every day is lunch
every day. It's automatically on there. It's a recurring meeting time.
So if you want to meet doing lunchtime, that's cool,
we can meet, But I'm having lunch yep. So I
hope you bringing yours exactly right. Scheduling time, you can
(26:49):
do that. When you're going to be home, you know
I'm gonna I'm going to read a book for the
next three hours, or I'm going to do this something
that's enjoyable. I'm gonna I'm going to listen to some music.
I'm going to catch up this or that, right, this
series that I was going to watch that I wanted
to watch. But you know, so you can fill that
time with these these stressors, with these things that are
(27:13):
going to still give you an opportunity to relax your.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Mind right and your body.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
And that's it, Rich, I mean, that's being intentional, and
that's you know, what we call reclaiming our piece. You know,
we've got to put that downtime routine into it. And
it can look different for everybody. It's a matter of
where you feel that your mind can relax, your body
can relax, and you feel less of the stress.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
That's going on around you.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
I think for you, you've mentioned some things that you
enjoy doing during those times. What are some of those
that you talked about brou Well. You know, I like
to walk. I like to get out in nature and
walk and just you know, be one with with the
nature and what's going on around me and trying. I'm
(28:03):
usually walking with my headphones on, you know, I'm listening.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
I have a specific playlist that I listen to, and
it's something I try to do as much as possible.
I like to cook. Cooking for me, you know, it's both.
It's both about the nourishment and controlling as much as
I can of what I'm eating, but it's also for
me the enjoyment. And it's another one of those things
(28:29):
you can kind of shut down parts of your brain
while you're doing it, because anything else you got muscle memories,
all right. I can chop and do all that kind
of stuff that doesn't require me to pay the high
level of attention, and even if I'm working with a
newer recipe, but it's still kind of all phase into
the background to a certain degree, and it just lets
me have some of that good downtime. So those are
(28:50):
some things that I like to do. I love music.
I can spend hours doing that. I am an author
and I've got three or four different books that I'm
writing on right now. Some I may never finish, some
I do actually plan to finish. But part of it
is I just like to write, and so it's it
has that again, that opportunity for me to get some
(29:15):
downtime sometimes, but it depends on what I'm writing. Sometimes
that writing can require me to really be engaged and thinking,
and so that's not relaxing to the same level. So
but you know, what I'm journaling, that is definitely, but
other writing might not be. I think something also to
think about is being is the actual practice of again,
(29:38):
of being conscious about about resting. I think again tied
to what we were saying earlier. This this notion of
laziness or you know, you're not doing enough if you're
sitting around. So for some people, I think there's a
guilt in sitting still or resting.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
You know.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
I've seen people who just, you know, I feel like
I should be doing something.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
Right.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
My wife has said that before when she's been off
and and she said she's been sitting there. She's like,
I feel like I should be doing something. And my
question is why, right? Why why do you feel like
you should be doing something? What's wrong with you? Just
what's wrong with you? Just relaxing for a minute, that's
actually cool, you know.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
Well, and that's doing something. So that's that's how you
feel that you say, well, they're doing something that you're
taking time for you and allowing yourself to rest and
relax so that when the next day comes to be
busy and doing busy work, you're going to be more
energized in order to be able to do it and
get it done as well.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
So I think you're not doing nothing. You're not doing nothing,
you are doing something. You are doing something. You're recharging
your batteries.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
That is something right, exactly exactly, And I think you know,
it's something that we learn, but I think it definitely
is health, you know, from my health and wellness to
be able to figure that piece of it out. And yeah,
and there's still times where it's hard and difficult for
me to just quote sit around, but I can. I
can either read. And I'm one of those folks rich
(31:14):
you know, I don't mind like washing dishes or folding
clothes and stuff like that, because to me, I do
consider that relaxing. And I think you mentioned it is
that I don't have to think much about what I'm doing,
but I'm doing and it gives me my time and
space that I need. So I'm one that sometimes I
need my loan time, you know what I mean. I
(31:37):
just needed me time and I'm cool with it, you know,
I'm saying as well.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Yeah, it's for me, and I think that's that's for
me is a lot of that is my walking time,
and so you know, I try and do it as
much of the year round as possible. Obviously, when it
gets cold, I'm movingside and so I'm on the treadmill
as supposed to being out on the road, but out
on the street, well actually out in the park. But
(32:03):
the same thing can happen. I can still in either place.
I can pretty much shut my mind down other than
you know, the parts that need to be paying attention
to my surroundings and all of that. But I'm free
to think. I'm free to not think, so my brain
will wander, you know, ideas can pop in and out.
(32:24):
Sometimes sometimes something pops in out and I'm like, WHOA,
I need to actually take a note about this before
I forget it, because it's going to keep moving.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
Stuff is just.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
Going by and doing what it is doing. A lot
of that for me is during that walking time, and
so I try and do it as often as I can.
So speaking of that, I'm probably have to go to
the gym today because it's temperature. You know, We've stretched
it out as far as we can into November. These
pleasant days, but they're fading fast.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
Brother.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Now with daylight savings time, we just switched that flip
that switch. So now you know, it's getting dark at
five o'clock and as soon as the sun is gone
a little bit of warmth we had holding on for
the day, let's go so right, And so I've been
moving in so if I can get out there now
your middle of the afternoon, then it's still decent. I
(33:17):
can put on some clothes and still be all right.
But as soon as that sign goes, you know, now
it's you Neque loves you need head. It's becoming November
for really right in Chicago Land, it's it's you know,
we're doing dealing with that.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
You know.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
One of the things that I remember seeing us as
we were kind of putting this together was this notion
of using downtime to reconnect with purpose and creativity. What
do you do that's creative in terms of downtown man,
br I'd.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
Like to for me, and you've heard me say it,
heard me.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
On the on the podcast talk about it, but it's
really you know, getting back into my martial arts, my
tight cheek, my comfort food.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
That for me is.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Actually very relaxing and truly takes my mind away from
the the activities and stressors that are going on throughout
the day.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Man.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
I like to also go for walks. I like to
I do like that as well.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
I put my headphones on, I got my music that
I'm listening to, and I'll just go for walks. I
love nature. I love being out and just feeling the
elements as well. I don't like it when it's too cold,
and I don't like it when it's too hot either,
But you know, that nice balance out there can really
be relaxing and it lets me know that, you know,
at those moments, I can let my mind just kind
(34:39):
of wander, and like you said, I may have to
catch a moment where I'm like, ooh, that's a great idea.
Let me write that down or get that down requit
real quick before I let that go. And then in
the mornings, man, I take a moment for meditation and prayer.
I mean, I think that helps to get be started,
you know, for the day as well. And I think
(34:59):
that that's you know, very relaxing to be able to
have that and have that moment even though it may
be about five minutes, but hey, that five minutes can
really do a lot to recharge and clear things up
for how the rest of the day could go as well.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Yeah, my current practice is to do to do that
very thing, and that's five minutes when I first wake up,
before I get out of the bed, well, I first
wake up first five minutes while I'm still in the bed,
I focus on one thought, when memory whatever, that just
(35:38):
that makes me happy, yep, so that I can so
I start to day with a happy thought, a happy idea,
a happy memory, something like that. So that's that's interesting
that you said that, But yeah, that's my my current practice.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
And as our listeners are hopefully figuring this out too,
is that you know, you got to find your way
to define what that looks like for you, you know
as well. And it can't be or you know, it
shouldn't be. Well, this is what so and so is doing,
So I'm gonna do that. Well that that may not
work for you, you know, So you have to find
what is that that you find peace, you find relaxing,
(36:18):
and you find that afterwards you really do feel that
sense of energy you know, come up from that as well, too,
So that's important.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
Yeah, I think about because I've done meditation, breathing practice,
done all kinds of different things. The notion around so
much of that is to get your mind into a
different state whereas you're not in that that that traditional
conscious state, so that your your mind is free to
kind of do its intuitive things. And so this notion
(36:54):
of the things that you are that you know intuitively
or innately without you having to consciously focus on it.
And so the basic idea behind so much of that,
I think comes it all comes down to this idea
of shutting down parts of our conscious brain to let
the unconscious parts do get a little more of those resources,
(37:18):
do a little more of these things that they do
in the background. And so what that ultimately does is
it means that downtime can help create or bring more clarity.
It's where clarity can show up. It's because we're slowing things.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
Down, right.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
And you know, you're the doctor. You know what parts
of the brain, but you know the parts of the
brain that are actively working. You know, when we're awake
and doing and living and all of that, we're shutting
them down, even if it's just for a moment or
like you said, for five minutes or for thirty seconds
as part of some sort of breathing practice, or you know,
(37:54):
people practice mindfulness where you know, okay, sit there and
close your eyes and breathe deeply and let's now you know,
blah blah blah. All of these different things are our
ways to let's let's shut down some of our normal
brain processes and conserve or shift resources for a few minutes,
(38:17):
right and ways, and that those things impact not just
our waking state, but they impact our physical being overall health.
If we practice and do these things on the regular,
by building in downtime on the regular, you're making yourself better,
You're making yourself stronger, You're making yourself healthier, you know,
(38:41):
making it part of the normal package, making it part
of the routine.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Exactly, Rich, exactly, brother, And I think, as we probably
getting ready to wrap the session up, you know what
surprised you most about rest as you've gotten older. We've
given some examples and things like that, but what would
you kind of bring that down to.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
I think the easiest way for me to see the
benefits of rest is because of my my normal exercise regimen.
My normal exercise regimen requires me to focus on recovery,
because I you know I do. I waight train too.
(39:27):
Do you know every week I go I push day,
a pool day, in a cardio day. So each after
each of those days, I need to recover. So I
go every other day to the gym. But like I
told you, I'll walk every day. So recovery is very
important because otherwise you feel it. You feel it in soreness,
you feel it and less ability. Right, you feel you've
(39:51):
got extended fatigue, right, you don't have as much strength
and until you fully recover. And so I out of
what I'm doing is as I'm training is work. It's
training to recover effectively. And one of the most important
pieces of recovery is sleep. Not just for not just
(40:13):
for rebuilding physical components, you know, not just for muscle growth,
not just to make sure your joints are good and
all of that, but for your brain, right brain, especially
as we get older. And I was talking about the
walking backwards the other day in the last episode, things
like that, because these things we do to challenge our
brain when we rest, that's what our brain grows. Right
(40:36):
when you sleep is when your brain when you learn
something new. The best thing you can do is go
to bed, because when you go to sleep the things
that you learned and new, that's when your brain builds
new networks, it builds new neurons. It says, Okay, we've
got to master this new thing that we've learned, and
so now we need to build another circuit. And essentially
(40:59):
is what you're does. Is my understanding why when you sleep,
when you're getting the good sleep, when you're getting enough sleep,
and you're getting the restorative sleep, right, you got the
different parts of sleep, right, you got your deep sleep,
your light sleep, your rim sleep, and then each of
those parts of sleep, your body does different things related
(41:21):
to your health. So you've got to get all all
of the sleep to get all of the sleep things right.
So it's kind of a long winded way around answering
your question, but ultimately I say that's where and how
as you know, I've been focusing more on the physical
health in the last several years and recovery and the
(41:42):
benefits of sleep to recovery. Right, is the short answer
to your question.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Now, And I think that you know what hopefully we've
learned and hopefully I've gotten some information on through this episode,
is that you know rest is important. We have to
be in about it. It is not a weakness for us.
It actually can bring about wisdom. As Rich just mentioned
about how when we rest, our brain can develop these
(42:11):
new connections that helps us be better and be more
effective in our lives. So I think we've both learned
that's slowing down, relaxing, resting lets us show up as
better men, as better fathers, as better husbands, and as
better friends. So on, behalf of Rich and myself. We
(42:35):
want to thank you. GK is still out there with us.
I know he wants to thank you as well for
joining us for this the art of downtime, and we
hope our brother is getting his downtime as well. So
until next time, take a breath, make sure you take
care of you. Appreciate you, remember, Leave us a comment,
(42:56):
leave us a like, and share it if you think
it'll help somebody else.
Speaker 3 (43:00):
Preciate you, pea sa m h m hm
Welcome to Raw and Refine, the Gentleman's Hour, where we're
going to have conversation with middle aged black men about
what's going on. We welcome you to listen, comment and like,
and hopefully encourage others to join for future conversations as well.
We always like to start off with a toast. And
(00:29):
with that toast, it's because we are gentlemen and we
do it Raw and Refine.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Welcome back to Roy and Refined. This is rich and
I'm here with John today. It's just the two of
us today, and today we're going to be talking about
something we both had to learn, and that's slowing down.
As always, we like to start off with the beverage.
Today I'm still in the midst of the work day technically,
so I'm sipping on my standard homemade gator We've talked
(01:00):
about before. I standdard e lecture like beverage. You know,
some water, a little lemon juice of a dash of salt,
and a little stevia.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
So that's that's that's what I'm doing in the yetti.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
I suppose as well, right, you know, there you go.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
That's right, that's right. I love it.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
That's our stand and brother I'll stad it now today,
at this time, like you said, just kind of still
in the midst of the day. I'm just really drinking
on some nice refreshing ice water, my friend. So that's
that's what I got going on today, keeping me refreshed,
keeping everything moving.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Excellent, excellent. So we're calling this episode the Art of downtime,
because real rest isn't just about sleep. It's about recovery,
it's about peace, it's about balance, it's about feeding the
whole of you and not just Okay, I'm got to
get a little physical rest. Yes, that is an important
(02:02):
part of it, but downtime is more than just that.
So we're going to talk about what it looks like
for us, why it's so hard to take, and what
it means for our health and happiness. Just like so
many things in life fire us to struggle for us
sometimes to figure out how to or when to take
down time, but we're going to dive into just how
(02:24):
important it really is.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
You ready, John, sounds good?
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Rich, I think this is highly important and on time,
especially as we're getting ready for holiday seasons coming up
and active times of the year, spending with work, family
and friends, and just still trying to find that time
for us, you know, and I say us meaning you
as well, and it's a great time for us to
have this conversation.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
That's so true, man, You think because people are taking
time off around this time of year, but so many
people will blast through the holidays and now they're back
to work full time and then just beat down because
they never had a moment during the holidays. They were
ripping and running and seeing these people are doing this
and doing that. And I gained six pounds because I
(03:10):
was eating everything in my face at everybody's house, you know,
all of that kind of stuff. So yeah, listen, let's
jump on in.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Exactly how many times do we say you need a
vacation from the vacation?
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Right? Man? You know.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
I tried to avoid that, man, but that happened so
many times. You know, Well what did you do? You know,
I went here, and I went there this, and I
saw that it was great.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
But now I'm tired, right.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Right, right right, I gotta go to work tomorrow, right,
no more, no more vacation time, right.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Right.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
So I try to manage that a lot better, and
they kind of start off going way back. Let's go back,
but you know that's often the case. Right we think about,
you know, how we're doing things as an adult, and
it always to have to take that look backward to
how we were raised, how we were brought up, how
we were you know, our foundations were put in place,
and so we'll kind of think about our attitudes towards rest,
(04:18):
you know, work first, rest later, kind of mentality we've
talked about and you know, we did a whole episode
on John Henryism and we've talked another context about our
proclivity for making sure that we get it done. We've
got this, at least for our generation that we found,
thankfully that from the young brothers, the sons and nephew
(04:39):
that they don't necessarily put that same pressure on themselves
that we had. We have to be three times better
or fifteen times better, although I think the pedal in
chief is doing everything he can to make us have
to rethink that or to make this next generation have
to pay a little more attention to that. But this
(05:00):
notion of you know how we've got to work hard.
We've got to keep working, we've got to keep going,
we've got to keep driving forward. We can worry about
you know how many times have you heard that that's saying,
you know you can rest.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
When you did, right exactly, just think right, you know.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
That, and that's that's crazy, But I mean, yeah, it's true.
It's a truism, is what it is. You will you
will rest when you did. But you know, there's other
forms of rest that we need to actively incorporate before
you're dead and an effort to maybe stave off the
dead a little bit.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Exactly exactly the things we can do to try to
not be dead too earlier than necessary.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Right right, our last episode we were talking about hypertension,
talking about how stress plays a role in that, and
I think you know this, this episode presents that incredible
opportunity to delve into one of the best ways to
try and deal with, manage and avoid some of that
stress we were talking about in that last episode. You
(06:03):
know the realities of high blood pressure and stress and
all of that kind of stuff. So downtime we're gonna
use that. We're gonna say, that's kind of an anecdote. Well,
that's one of the one of the things to have
in the in the toolbox to help with that overall wellness,
specifically with that stress related hypertension.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Piece.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
But we were talking a little bit about this kind
of cultural proclivity we have for pushing ourselves so much.
What's your take on that, man, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
I mean, I think for us and our generation you
said it earlier. I think it's just that's how we
were brought up and kind of raised that, you know,
if you're just sitting around and you're being lazy. But
and that's I think now that it's a matter of
you just need time. You need mental rest, you know,
physical rest, spiritual rest, but you need a moment where
(06:55):
your body is just not or your mind is just
not on. And I think that's why it's so difficult,
because we always thought of being busy as being productive,
but that productivity or busyness wore you down so much
that then you weren't as effective in your relationships, in
your job, and in your education. You know, remember going
(07:18):
to school and trying to do these all night cram sessions. Well, yeah,
we may have gotten through, but it took a toll
on us later on. And those are the things that
I think we've learned that you know, we try to
let our folks and our kids and people understand that yes,
there's time to be busy time to be productive, but
for you to continue to be efficient, you need to
(07:41):
also make sure you take good quality time for rest
and relaxation.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Yeah, you made me think back to college when you
were talking about the cram and I remember as a
freshman in college being an engineering student and the finals
week being up for something like three days straight studying
and cramming for finals and taking no dose and drinking
(08:06):
joked cola. You know that that's the one that says
something like twice the caffeine and all the sugar you'll
never need on the on the label something to that effect,
stand up for And I ended up sleeping for you know,
something crazy like eighteen hours after it was all over
because our body.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
Was crashed out.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
But just how irresponsible that is health wise, you know,
right to do something like that. And on the flip side,
having counseled people over the years when they're you know,
preparing for the like the Bargainsam or something like that,
I would always tell people they need to stop studying.
(08:43):
A few days before. I was like, don't cram all
the way up to the end, because you're going to
learn everything. You're going to learn if you're doing what
you're supposed to be doing. It's going to be in there,
you know. And what's more important is is to get
you a really great night of sleep.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
You know.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
The advice I would always tell people is wherever the
test is going to be, you need to get you
a hotel the night before. It's close, that's walking distance
to the test. I'm in Chicago Land, so I'm always
referencing downtown Chicago. You know, that's where we would take
the bar exam at. So it's like, Okay, get you
a hotel close by, and stay there the night before,
(09:23):
as opposed to trying to commute down there and creating
these stressors. And stay down there the night before, get
a great night's sleep, and don't study yep, you know,
like the day or two before, just and then just
going there well rested and do the thing. But that's
kind of what you were talking about. I thought also
was just this notion that if we go back and
(09:46):
we look at from a cultural perspective, some of the
things that have been handed down, passed down beat into
us in terms of how we're supposed to behave, whereas
really a result of slavery and Jim grow and white
people kind of impressing upon us this notion that we
can't be sitting around you know, look at that look
(10:06):
at that lazy nigger over there, right kind of. And
so you know, I think we internalize that to a
certain extent. You know, we got to make sure that
we're not one of them, right, right, So I think
there's a space to kind of push back or overreact,
overrespond and the other, you know, to our own detriment
(10:27):
as well, whether there's still that external pressure or if
it's now just an internal pressure that we create as
a pressure nonetheless culturally that we've you.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
Know, kind of always got to be on or something
like that, right, And there's actual science to back that
up too, Rich, I mean, there's studies that do show,
especially when it comes to getting your rest before exams
or a test of that nature, that you know, getting
your you know, seven eight hours of good rest prior
to an exam has shown better outcomes.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
You know, and scores and stuff too. So I know,
we think, you know, some people may have thought in
the past or think now that ooh, now I got
to keep it going, got to keep that mind fresh,
you know, for this exam, But that's actually putting more
stress on you during that exam and you start touesting
yourself right on what that response is type deal. So
(11:20):
there's science to back it up, my brother, mm hmm, I.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Mean it's the brain is a computer. Think about how
often do you have to overtime? If I just let
my computer run for days and days without restarting it,
without letting it sleep, it's still working, but the working
memory is exhausted, you know, if it's not had a
chance to dump all of the old stuff. It's the
(11:44):
resources become limited. Best way to describe it, and that's
the same thing that happens to our mind. Brain fog
is real. We see that as a result of all
kinds of physical conditions, all kinds of infections, you know,
all kinds of things and create brain fog. It's very real.
We've got limits to our cognitive ability when we're fresh
(12:07):
versus when we're tired or whatever. So let's talk about
this cost, the damage or the damages. You know, the
former lawyer in me thinks about costs in terms of damages.
But let's talk about the cost of neglecting ourselves when
we don't slow down. No, I've burned myself out before
to a certain extent working, but mine the time I
(12:29):
go back to most often, it was a combination of
physical and mental because the physical was when I at
the time, I didn't really understand that I had sciatica
and how it was impacted my body. But I was
still young, and I was playing in the basketball league,
and I was still trying to do that while I
was practicing law and not paying attention to how this
(12:52):
condition was getting worse in the short term because I
didn't know what was going on, right, I'm just I'm
just thinking of something simple. I got a little sore back,
not realizing that it's a nerve thing that's happening. Because
a little crooked. You know, we're all a little we're
all a little asymmetric. And now I understand how, and
(13:15):
you know, I got customer orthotics now, brother, But you know,
so it was a combination of the physical and emotional
burnout because I didn't understand the health piece at the time,
and so you know, part of that this this notion
of keep going, keep going. I'm literally out there because
(13:36):
I'm still at an age where I think I'm immortal.
I'm literally out there playing in this basketball league and
I'm like out there on one and a half legs, basically,
you know, not wanting to accept the reality. But I
need to go sit my hands down somewhere.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
That's true, brother, that's true. What I saying that.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
You know, you just we got to rest the rest
of our life away, you know as well, right, but
you gotta have moments to let that body recuperate, let
it heal, let that mind healed, and relax and get
back to it.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Man. I mean that's what you know.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
As they say, you got to listen to your body.
But before you can even listen to your body, is
you have to you have to first you got to
understand how the language your body speaks. You know, you
have to initiate the conversation. Before you can listen to
your body. You gotta first even understand what that means,
how that works. You know what the signs are that
your body is given you telling you so if you
(14:41):
just living life and not really tuned in to you
know who you are, what this this this vehicle is
that you're that you're moving around, then you know you're
just you're just moving, but you're not really conscious on
that level. You're not paying attention to the signs because again,
as we talked about before, you know, a lot of
(15:01):
our life is really easy to be that frog in
the uh, that frog and the boiling all and the
frog in the pot. You know, the water keeps getting
creeped up. You won't notice the things that have changed,
and you won't notice these minute, slow creeps over time
until something goes. And my case, it was literally one
(15:24):
morning I tried to get out the bed and I
and I and I fell to the floor. I couldn't, couldn't,
couldn't stand up, couldn't support myself, my back and my
that that whole sciatica thing said, Nope, we're shutting you down.
You ain't been listening, been telling your ass for the
last three four weeks that you know, you got some
stuff going on here.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
Right, right, don't listen. That's right.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
And so I should have been listening for a long
time earlier than that, and hadn't been. But I don't
think I even understood at that point what I should
have been listening for.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
Right, you know.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
But part of it in my case too, again, like
I said, still those feelings of immortality. You know, I
accept my mortality at this age. Now I'm trying to
extend and prolong and keep it as good as possible.
Back then, I thought, I could, you know, leap tall
buildings in the single round.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
That's true. That's true, until.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
You run into the side of a building and say, oh, dang,
I really can't jump that.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
Far, right, that's true.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Nah.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
And those are signs, man, I mean back aches, headaches,
belly pains, irritability, not feeling rested after resting.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
These are all signs.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
That's a crazy one.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Man.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
Your body is telling you right about that, you know.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
So I was in bed for eight hours and I
woke up and I just feel tired right right to
be hollered at somebody right, exactly, need to get that
check dog, and right start with that person that you
lay next to, if there is by the next time,
because they'll be able to tell you was you was
snoring loud as hell right right those five times when
(17:09):
I kept telling you to roll over.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
That's why, exactly, that's why you used to exactly exactly nah.
And I think for me, Rich, I think I really
noticed the time when I was diagnosed with diabetes and
high blood pressure. You know, they both kind of hit
at the same time, and it was at a time
that I was really pushing it.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Man.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
I was trying to be the be the end all,
you know, as it relates to health and health care
and medicine and all of that, you know, And then
all of a sudden, I get the diagnosis of diabetes
and high blood pressure. Yes, there's family history and all
of that as well, but I still feel like I
probably could have delayed the onset of that developing if
(17:51):
I paid more attention to balancing the needs of my body.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Man. And you know, yes, we get it. You can
be active, be productive.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
Be engaged with things that are going on around you
and your family, but you also have to make sure
you're taking that time for you in order to have
that balance that's needed. And like you said, our body
will tell us. It'll knock us down if it said,
all right, I gave you these warning signs and you
still weren't listening. I'm gonna knock you out with this one.
(18:22):
And now you're gonna hear me, you know, And unfortunately
that may not be a good thing for us when
that happens as well.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Yeah, I told you to sit down. Now you're gonna
have to lay down right right well to sit down right,
It's as simple as that. On some levels, really, it's
making this has to be part of the package. This
has to be part of the plan. This has to
be you know, on the agenda on a regular consistent basis. Right,
(18:53):
this is this is part of the maintenance that's required.
What it really has to be. And so you know,
when you're thinking about how do I balance work and
how do I balance all the other parts of my life?
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Is well, you you.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Prioritize it. And I think that's something that quite often
is not the case when people talk about downtime. You know,
I think it's really interesting you mentioned irritability as one
and I think, you know, we see that a lot,
and I think part of that is just again, we
talked about culture, but I think often we're talking about
black culture. American culture is really a culture of and
(19:31):
we're seeing it even more so today right now. Right,
everything is pointing to the goal is to try and
make Americans work harder and longer. Right, We're seeing things
stripped away, We're seeing all kinds of changes that are happening,
and they're all designed for the average working person to
have to work.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
Longer and harder.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
And you know, retirement is getting pushed out further away,
and if that actually ever happens for a lot of people,
right and so, if you're not going to have the
opportunit unity to spend twenty years fishing and have the
time to catch up on that downtime, you got to
make it a reality. If your life is going to
(20:10):
be one that you don't ever really get to take
off years right right, you know it's going to retire,
you know you're going to always be working in some capacity,
like we see a lot of Americans seniors that don't
ever get to shut it down all the way because
they can't afford to. So if you don't ever get
to shut it all the way down and retire, if
you're always going to be working, you're always going to
(20:31):
have some of those same pressures. Then that has to
be part of the whole package right right now.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
And there are some companies out there that have, you know,
come to understand that and recognize that. I think some
of our tech based companies have understood that rest is important,
that it's not always a go go go, that you
have to take time for you because they see that
the efficiency improves the more you are are able to
(20:59):
balance that output. And then you know, what do we
do rich We schedule busy time, right, we don't schedule
rest time unless we're putting in the vacation.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
But then you referenced it earlier, but.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Then you planing out the whole vacation, you're like, oh,
I got to make sure I hit this place. I
got to make sure I go do this. I got
to make sure I get their type deal. And we're
going to do that during this timeframe and this and
the other. But where's the rest? I mean, isn't that's
the ucation back to places you've been before. I'm sorry
on your job, but that's the beauty of going back
(21:35):
to places you've been before, because then you're not trying
to go see everything you're not safe seeing. You know,
you just like this place because you know, you keep
coming back here because you like the service, or you
like the food, you like the room, you know, the
view or whatever. And it's easier to build in that
downtime because I don't need to go see nothing.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Already been everywhere here that I want to see, and
I'm coming back here because I like these things specific
or whatever, and it's it's it's a little easier. I
think to kind of build in that instead of having
that planned out trip that so many people do.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
I think that's a great suggestion there, Rich And you're
absolutely right, and I guess we do that too. We
like to go to Aruba, so we go back from
time because we know it, we know the places, but
it's a place where we feel we can really relax,
you know what I'm saying, and still enjoy what it
all has to offer. But we've already seen, you know,
(22:31):
a lot of those places. But just sometimes getting away
helps in that rest and relaxation versus.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
And you still go hit that restaurant that you you know,
you won't necessarily stay at the resort exactly. You might
go to that one spot that you've shopped at before.
You'll go to that one to that restaurant you've been
to before. That's part of the downtime because now you're
not you know, yes you're a visitor, but you're not
a spectator. You know you're not that you're not that
(23:00):
walking around, Right, You're still able to keep more of
your brain shut down, keep right, because you're just going
somewhere to have something to eat that you've been before, Right,
that kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
And I think that when it comes to like these staycations,
you know, where we're staying basically at home and just
taking the time off, you know, I think, in my opinion,
I would keep those at a lesser amount of days
versus you know, along and extension being at home, because
when you're at home, you're still in the environment that
(23:34):
causes you to be busy.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
So you know, there's always fix and stuff, right.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
You thinking about it, I can take care of this, right, right, right,
So you just you replaced work tasks for home tasks. Yeah,
you know, that's a good, that's a good. That's a
good point because I haven't have done that in the past,
taking a quote unquote staycation and still was very active.
(24:02):
You know. You know, the goal is to for me,
downtime is it's just that it's my body is down
and my mind is down, or my mind is occupied
by something that's completely and entirely different from the norm,
and so I'm not doing the normal work thinking, life thinking.
(24:25):
You know, if I'm doing something with my mind and
something that's pure enjoyment, either because it's fun or because
it's kind of challenging and new.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
But you know, right, And for me, I can do that.
I can do that better away than I can at
home because I'm still thinking, well, i'm here, I can
get this done.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
You know.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Maybe now I have extra time to get it done,
but it's still getting it done, Whereas when I'm away, No,
I mean, if I'm not there, I try to try
to get it out of get it out of my
mind to have to work owner and get it done
as well.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
So yeah, I think if you're going to do a staycation,
I think you can deal do effective downtime, but I
think it requires a higher level of intention because of
the reality of this. The reality of these like you're
saying this is you know, that's kind of natural, right,
because that's your everyday environment, that's your home. Right, You've
(25:24):
already you're always thinking in general about things that you
need to do, and now you've got to chunk of time.
And then this goes back again to this notion of
am I being lazy because I'm just sitting around And
it's easier away from home to not feel like you're
being lazy when you're lying around. That's why I can here,
That's why I pay this money so that I could
(25:45):
lay around so I could get them massage, and so
I could do this or do that. But if you
can achieve it with intention, you can achieve it. And
that intention really has to be about feeling that that
time with downtime right. So again, it might require some scheduling,
it might, but what you're doing is is your scheduling
(26:06):
the downtime right. A lot of times when I don't
have when I have days at work, when I don't
have a lot of meetings, I will schedule blocks of
time on my calendar one so nobody else can jump
in there, but two so that I'm kind of shaping
what my day is gonna be. And I'll say, well,
I'm going to work on this from this time to
(26:28):
this time or and then from this time. One thing
that I have on my calendar every day is lunch
every day. It's automatically on there. It's a recurring meeting time.
So if you want to meet doing lunchtime, that's cool,
we can meet, But I'm having lunch yep. So I
hope you bringing yours exactly right. Scheduling time, you can
(26:49):
do that. When you're going to be home, you know
I'm gonna I'm going to read a book for the
next three hours, or I'm going to do this something
that's enjoyable. I'm gonna I'm going to listen to some music.
I'm going to catch up this or that, right, this
series that I was going to watch that I wanted
to watch. But you know, so you can fill that
time with these these stressors, with these things that are
(27:13):
going to still give you an opportunity to relax your.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Mind right and your body.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
And that's it, Rich, I mean, that's being intentional, and
that's you know, what we call reclaiming our piece. You know,
we've got to put that downtime routine into it. And
it can look different for everybody. It's a matter of
where you feel that your mind can relax, your body
can relax, and you feel less of the stress.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
That's going on around you.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
I think for you, you've mentioned some things that you
enjoy doing during those times. What are some of those
that you talked about brou Well. You know, I like
to walk. I like to get out in nature and
walk and just you know, be one with with the
nature and what's going on around me and trying. I'm
(28:03):
usually walking with my headphones on, you know, I'm listening.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
I have a specific playlist that I listen to, and
it's something I try to do as much as possible.
I like to cook. Cooking for me, you know, it's both.
It's both about the nourishment and controlling as much as
I can of what I'm eating, but it's also for
me the enjoyment. And it's another one of those things
(28:29):
you can kind of shut down parts of your brain
while you're doing it, because anything else you got muscle memories,
all right. I can chop and do all that kind
of stuff that doesn't require me to pay the high
level of attention, and even if I'm working with a
newer recipe, but it's still kind of all phase into
the background to a certain degree, and it just lets
me have some of that good downtime. So those are
(28:50):
some things that I like to do. I love music.
I can spend hours doing that. I am an author
and I've got three or four different books that I'm
writing on right now. Some I may never finish, some
I do actually plan to finish. But part of it
is I just like to write, and so it's it
has that again, that opportunity for me to get some
(29:15):
downtime sometimes, but it depends on what I'm writing. Sometimes
that writing can require me to really be engaged and thinking,
and so that's not relaxing to the same level. So
but you know, what I'm journaling, that is definitely, but
other writing might not be. I think something also to
think about is being is the actual practice of again,
(29:38):
of being conscious about about resting. I think again tied
to what we were saying earlier. This this notion of
laziness or you know, you're not doing enough if you're
sitting around. So for some people, I think there's a
guilt in sitting still or resting.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
You know.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
I've seen people who just, you know, I feel like
I should be doing something.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
Right.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
My wife has said that before when she's been off
and and she said she's been sitting there. She's like,
I feel like I should be doing something. And my
question is why, right? Why why do you feel like
you should be doing something? What's wrong with you? Just
what's wrong with you? Just relaxing for a minute, that's
actually cool, you know.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
Well, and that's doing something. So that's that's how you
feel that you say, well, they're doing something that you're
taking time for you and allowing yourself to rest and
relax so that when the next day comes to be
busy and doing busy work, you're going to be more
energized in order to be able to do it and
get it done as well.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
So I think you're not doing nothing. You're not doing nothing,
you are doing something. You are doing something. You're recharging
your batteries.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
That is something right, exactly exactly, And I think you know,
it's something that we learn, but I think it definitely
is health, you know, from my health and wellness to
be able to figure that piece of it out. And yeah,
and there's still times where it's hard and difficult for
me to just quote sit around, but I can. I
can either read. And I'm one of those folks rich
(31:14):
you know, I don't mind like washing dishes or folding
clothes and stuff like that, because to me, I do
consider that relaxing. And I think you mentioned it is
that I don't have to think much about what I'm doing,
but I'm doing and it gives me my time and
space that I need. So I'm one that sometimes I
need my loan time, you know what I mean. I
(31:37):
just needed me time and I'm cool with it, you know,
I'm saying as well.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Yeah, it's for me, and I think that's that's for
me is a lot of that is my walking time,
and so you know, I try and do it as
much of the year round as possible. Obviously, when it
gets cold, I'm movingside and so I'm on the treadmill
as supposed to being out on the road, but out
on the street, well actually out in the park. But
(32:03):
the same thing can happen. I can still in either place.
I can pretty much shut my mind down other than
you know, the parts that need to be paying attention
to my surroundings and all of that. But I'm free
to think. I'm free to not think, so my brain
will wander, you know, ideas can pop in and out.
(32:24):
Sometimes sometimes something pops in out and I'm like, WHOA,
I need to actually take a note about this before
I forget it, because it's going to keep moving.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
Stuff is just.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
Going by and doing what it is doing. A lot
of that for me is during that walking time, and
so I try and do it as often as I can.
So speaking of that, I'm probably have to go to
the gym today because it's temperature. You know, We've stretched
it out as far as we can into November. These
pleasant days, but they're fading fast.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
Brother.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Now with daylight savings time, we just switched that flip
that switch. So now you know, it's getting dark at
five o'clock and as soon as the sun is gone
a little bit of warmth we had holding on for
the day, let's go so right, And so I've been
moving in so if I can get out there now
your middle of the afternoon, then it's still decent. I
(33:17):
can put on some clothes and still be all right.
But as soon as that sign goes, you know, now
it's you Neque loves you need head. It's becoming November
for really right in Chicago Land, it's it's you know,
we're doing dealing with that.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
You know.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
One of the things that I remember seeing us as
we were kind of putting this together was this notion
of using downtime to reconnect with purpose and creativity. What
do you do that's creative in terms of downtown man,
br I'd.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
Like to for me, and you've heard me say it,
heard me.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
On the on the podcast talk about it, but it's
really you know, getting back into my martial arts, my
tight cheek, my comfort food.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
That for me is.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Actually very relaxing and truly takes my mind away from
the the activities and stressors that are going on throughout
the day.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Man.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
I like to also go for walks. I like to
I do like that as well.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
I put my headphones on, I got my music that
I'm listening to, and I'll just go for walks. I
love nature. I love being out and just feeling the
elements as well. I don't like it when it's too cold,
and I don't like it when it's too hot either,
But you know, that nice balance out there can really
be relaxing and it lets me know that, you know,
at those moments, I can let my mind just kind
(34:39):
of wander, and like you said, I may have to
catch a moment where I'm like, ooh, that's a great idea.
Let me write that down or get that down requit
real quick before I let that go. And then in
the mornings, man, I take a moment for meditation and prayer.
I mean, I think that helps to get be started,
you know, for the day as well. And I think
(34:59):
that that's you know, very relaxing to be able to
have that and have that moment even though it may
be about five minutes, but hey, that five minutes can
really do a lot to recharge and clear things up
for how the rest of the day could go as well.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Yeah, my current practice is to do to do that
very thing, and that's five minutes when I first wake up,
before I get out of the bed, well, I first
wake up first five minutes while I'm still in the bed,
I focus on one thought, when memory whatever, that just
(35:38):
that makes me happy, yep, so that I can so
I start to day with a happy thought, a happy idea,
a happy memory, something like that. So that's that's interesting
that you said that, But yeah, that's my my current practice.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
And as our listeners are hopefully figuring this out too,
is that you know, you got to find your way
to define what that looks like for you, you know
as well. And it can't be or you know, it
shouldn't be. Well, this is what so and so is doing,
So I'm gonna do that. Well that that may not
work for you, you know, So you have to find
what is that that you find peace, you find relaxing,
(36:18):
and you find that afterwards you really do feel that
sense of energy you know, come up from that as well, too,
So that's important.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
Yeah, I think about because I've done meditation, breathing practice,
done all kinds of different things. The notion around so
much of that is to get your mind into a
different state whereas you're not in that that that traditional
conscious state, so that your your mind is free to
kind of do its intuitive things. And so this notion
(36:54):
of the things that you are that you know intuitively
or innately without you having to consciously focus on it.
And so the basic idea behind so much of that,
I think comes it all comes down to this idea
of shutting down parts of our conscious brain to let
the unconscious parts do get a little more of those resources,
(37:18):
do a little more of these things that they do
in the background. And so what that ultimately does is
it means that downtime can help create or bring more clarity.
It's where clarity can show up. It's because we're slowing things.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
Down, right.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
And you know, you're the doctor. You know what parts
of the brain, but you know the parts of the
brain that are actively working. You know, when we're awake
and doing and living and all of that, we're shutting
them down, even if it's just for a moment or
like you said, for five minutes or for thirty seconds
as part of some sort of breathing practice, or you know,
(37:54):
people practice mindfulness where you know, okay, sit there and
close your eyes and breathe deeply and let's now you know,
blah blah blah. All of these different things are our
ways to let's let's shut down some of our normal
brain processes and conserve or shift resources for a few minutes,
(38:17):
right and ways, and that those things impact not just
our waking state, but they impact our physical being overall health.
If we practice and do these things on the regular,
by building in downtime on the regular, you're making yourself better,
You're making yourself stronger, You're making yourself healthier, you know,
(38:41):
making it part of the normal package, making it part
of the routine.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Exactly, Rich, exactly, brother, And I think, as we probably
getting ready to wrap the session up, you know what
surprised you most about rest as you've gotten older. We've
given some examples and things like that, but what would
you kind of bring that down to.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
I think the easiest way for me to see the
benefits of rest is because of my my normal exercise regimen.
My normal exercise regimen requires me to focus on recovery,
because I you know I do. I waight train too.
(39:27):
Do you know every week I go I push day,
a pool day, in a cardio day. So each after
each of those days, I need to recover. So I
go every other day to the gym. But like I
told you, I'll walk every day. So recovery is very
important because otherwise you feel it. You feel it in soreness,
you feel it and less ability. Right, you feel you've
(39:51):
got extended fatigue, right, you don't have as much strength
and until you fully recover. And so I out of
what I'm doing is as I'm training is work. It's
training to recover effectively. And one of the most important
pieces of recovery is sleep. Not just for not just
(40:13):
for rebuilding physical components, you know, not just for muscle growth,
not just to make sure your joints are good and
all of that, but for your brain, right brain, especially
as we get older. And I was talking about the
walking backwards the other day in the last episode, things
like that, because these things we do to challenge our
brain when we rest, that's what our brain grows. Right
(40:36):
when you sleep is when your brain when you learn
something new. The best thing you can do is go
to bed, because when you go to sleep the things
that you learned and new, that's when your brain builds
new networks, it builds new neurons. It says, Okay, we've
got to master this new thing that we've learned, and
so now we need to build another circuit. And essentially
(40:59):
is what you're does. Is my understanding why when you sleep,
when you're getting the good sleep, when you're getting enough sleep,
and you're getting the restorative sleep, right, you got the
different parts of sleep, right, you got your deep sleep,
your light sleep, your rim sleep, and then each of
those parts of sleep, your body does different things related
(41:21):
to your health. So you've got to get all all
of the sleep to get all of the sleep things right.
So it's kind of a long winded way around answering
your question, but ultimately I say that's where and how
as you know, I've been focusing more on the physical
health in the last several years and recovery and the
(41:42):
benefits of sleep to recovery. Right, is the short answer
to your question.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Now, And I think that you know what hopefully we've
learned and hopefully I've gotten some information on through this episode,
is that you know rest is important. We have to
be in about it. It is not a weakness for us.
It actually can bring about wisdom. As Rich just mentioned
about how when we rest, our brain can develop these
(42:11):
new connections that helps us be better and be more
effective in our lives. So I think we've both learned
that's slowing down, relaxing, resting lets us show up as
better men, as better fathers, as better husbands, and as
better friends. So on, behalf of Rich and myself. We
(42:35):
want to thank you. GK is still out there with us.
I know he wants to thank you as well for
joining us for this the art of downtime, and we
hope our brother is getting his downtime as well. So
until next time, take a breath, make sure you take
care of you. Appreciate you, remember, Leave us a comment,
(42:56):
leave us a like, and share it if you think
it'll help somebody else.
Speaker 3 (43:00):
Preciate you, pea sa m h m hm
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