Life after Rei Gurren: The Rae Catron interview

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well, hey, what's up right there?

Speaker 2 (00:04):
Hey?

Speaker 1 (00:04):
What's going on? The tostito?

Speaker 2 (00:07):
Thanks? You hear me?

Speaker 1 (00:08):
All right? You sound like you're maybe.

Speaker 3 (00:10):
On the speakerphone or way you're taking a ship and
talking to me across the room.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hold on, hold on, hold on? Is that better?

Speaker 1 (00:26):
A little better? Are you in speakerphone?

Speaker 2 (00:29):
No, dude, these these sell one phones aren't that great? Man?

Speaker 3 (00:34):
Oh yeah, that sounds really one.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
Yeah, everybody says that. Man. I was trying to Uh,
I was trying to do something worrying like your phone. Yeah,
but I don't know. I guess didn't improve it anyway,
so uh no, worries will make it worse. Paid automney
for this phone. And I don't sit here clearly.

Speaker 3 (00:58):
Yeah and snow worried about it. I'll just make some
adjustments right here. We should be good and i'll touch
it up after in post. So what's up, man?

Speaker 2 (01:08):
Nothing else here at home? Chilling IM. I was kind
of bored, so uh uh I was gonna watch watch
some retro TV, but they took my show off.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
Were watching What's.

Speaker 2 (01:24):
For some reason. I was on a I was on
a supermarket sleep chick for a couple of days on
the what that old that nineties show Supermarket Sweep.

Speaker 3 (01:37):
I don't think I've ever seen.

Speaker 2 (01:39):
Yeah, yeah, anyway, Yeah, they took it off there, so
I went on TV. I went on TV and like,
I started watching that reds Mental documentary and I never
I seen him once I started watching it again, so
I don't unders. Yeah, but now I'm just like, oh, well,
I'll just watch that.

Speaker 1 (01:55):
Is it any good?

Speaker 3 (01:56):
I uh, I see, like the intro part of it,
like the first five ten minutes or something like that,
I just didn't.

Speaker 1 (02:04):
I couldn't get into it.

Speaker 2 (02:07):
It's okay, I mean, yeah, he kind of the stomach
through it because the very first part, like it was
a little off putting out first, because like I I'm
not really big on native rap. It's it's okay, but
I don't really don't like might go to you, but
you know, it's start off with a Red rapper, and
I'm like, oh, okay, you know the Red Metal documentary

(02:28):
starts off with a Red rapper. Yeah, and what I
don't I don't dismiss it. I don't dislike it, but
you know, some rappers are okay. But anyway, anyway, yeah, no,
that's why we're just doing it with you.

Speaker 3 (02:45):
We're haters. Anybody listening that there, We're just talking. We're
just two guys shooting the ship about something we saw.
This is the thing. There always has to be a
fucking disclaimer because anytime any natives, especially if they're in
the arts in world, and they critique somebody else or
something else that somebody else has done for some reason,

(03:05):
the only go to label that they can be labeled
with is a hater. Oh, you're being a fucking hater. Hater, hater?
Why can't I be Why can't I be given a
good critique of something like you're given an honest review
of of the documentary of what you saw. I love documentaries,
so when I watch a documentary, I don't I don't
want it to be arty. I don't want it to

(03:25):
be trying to lead me to a thought that I
should that they want me to have, and I can.
I can sniff it out usually pretty pretty easily. Like
That's why I don't watch state media because I'm like,
these guys want me to think something, and I don't
want to think that way.

Speaker 1 (03:38):
I'd rather have information so I can formulate my own,
my own ideas. So yeah, yeah, have you seen it?

Speaker 2 (03:47):
That's pretty good.

Speaker 3 (03:48):
Have you seen Dirt theah, the one the other res
metal documentary?

Speaker 2 (03:53):
Oh, Metal, Metal from the.

Speaker 1 (03:54):
Dirt, Metal from the Dirt.

Speaker 2 (03:55):
Yeah, yes, I've seen. I thought I watched it when
I first came out, and it was a it was
pretty good. I actually know those guys middle Aighted Tyrant.
We we played with him on their very first show ever,
over and A and uh, it's kind of crazy how
big they got in these days, and like, you know,
it's like watching a toddler grow up. Yeah, yeah, it was.

(04:19):
It was pretty good. And we were just a couple
of years ago. We were walking around there and see, uh,
some magazine about all that was featuring you know, and
it was pretty cool. It was pretty good.

Speaker 1 (04:31):
You guys got featured what was amazing called.

Speaker 2 (04:34):
The magazine's revolver has dans like on the cover.

Speaker 1 (04:39):
Oh no ship, you guys were featured.

Speaker 2 (04:42):
Uh no we're not. We're not. You know, we were punky.
They didn't want them to do with us. But actually, uh, Gerald,
my friend Jerald, he found the magazine and he was
gonna buy it, but I guess he had he had
second thoughts and yeah, I don't know, he just gave
it to me. He was like, here you can have
I'm like, oh, okay, cool, and so yeah I have it.

(05:03):
It's packed away and everything, but yeah, I have it.
A little piece of a little piece of a Navoto
music history. You know.

Speaker 1 (05:11):
That's that's due. That's the way I see it.

Speaker 3 (05:12):
Like, even if I don't even like somebody or whatever,
and I'm like, eh, because there's a lot of people.

Speaker 1 (05:17):
That have rubbed me the wrong ways or whatever else,
and you know, we're human sometimes sometimes we just.

Speaker 2 (05:23):
Do things like that. I hold onto you, man, like
I even still have I even still have the magazines
that you you gave me like ten years ago, the
rat First Metal and like the CD that came along
with I still have them, dude, they're packed away.

Speaker 1 (05:39):
I am talking about that.

Speaker 2 (05:42):
I am looking at.

Speaker 1 (05:45):
I pull it up right. It says, let's take.

Speaker 3 (05:51):
Ray yarn any m wants to tea knocks Pinnacles in
in the pages of time will last forever, Saber, it's
uh from the drunk kit you guys came to me. Yeah,
but the I think it's the cover that goes on
the drum. I don't know too much about drums.

Speaker 2 (06:10):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (06:13):
Skin, So I still have that and the drumsticks that
you guys gave and yeah, like all of this stuff,
Like I've always had this dream. I don't know if
you remember, like when we got Chuck Billy inducted into
the hard rock When when when hard rock? What the

(06:37):
fuck's that name that casino called out there now where
like no, no, out out there in Albuquerque, outside of Albuquerque,
that that big old casino that used to be hard rock.
It used to be something, then it was hard rock,
and then it was no, no.

Speaker 1 (06:54):
No, not that one, the other one.

Speaker 2 (06:56):
Uh no, it's just right outside. Yeah, anyway, that's oh
let is Leta.

Speaker 1 (07:08):
So is Leta you be hard rock?

Speaker 2 (07:12):
And okay, So.

Speaker 3 (07:14):
We got Chuck Billy inducted in over there with his
memorabilia and stuff. And I remember that, I uh, issue
number four and so they they sent down his pants, microphone, vest,
stuff like that, right, and uh yeah, there's a fucking giant.
I was like, see if I can put this on

(07:35):
nothing but leg nothing, but like yeah, I couldn't fit
in that fucking thing. I was like, god, damns is tall.
And uh but we got we got it inducted over there.
And I remember talking to the CEO at the time,
and uh, I said.

Speaker 1 (07:49):
Look, I have this crazy idea.

Speaker 3 (07:50):
Bear with me. And I said, I would like to
have a whole wing dedicated to native entertainment, like specifically
from this magazine, from this company. Will go out, we'll
get the talent, we'll put them on the cover of
the magazine, and we'll get the merch and bring it in.
You guys just install it, and you guys, you guys

(08:12):
put this big old show on for them, like, you know,
like because the our people always get forgotten about. The
guy was a thousand percent down with it. He's like, fuck, yeah,
let's do it. And uh so, he said, all right,
let's show me your idea. So we went walking around.

Speaker 1 (08:25):
He goes, I think I got I think I got
a wing that you guys could probably end up using.
I went in there with the.

Speaker 3 (08:30):
Idea of just taking one magazine, seeing if we can
get Chuck Bailey's stuff and installed in the thing, and
you know, and uh turned into the conversation about having
a whole entire wing dedicated to native entertainment. But the
way haters are in our community, that was that was
quickly thwarted. And uh so, but yeah, I keep stuff

(08:51):
because I've always had this this idea that this all
of this is memorabilia and one of these days these
could these things could end up in a you know,
can never see you never know you could have seen
Ray in his own installation at hard Rock and then
you know what I mean. Yeah, yeah, well dude, I
haven't I haven't talked to you in we haven't spoken in.

Speaker 2 (09:15):
Ten years, about eleven years.

Speaker 1 (09:16):
Eleven years, yeah, eleven years. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:19):
Yeah, last last interaction wasn't great because of some dude
in Shane.

Speaker 1 (09:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:24):
I think that was. I think that was a misunderstanding
on both parts by that dude. Yeah, he was. He
ended up turning his back on us later on. I'm like, whatever, man, you.

Speaker 1 (09:32):
Know, this is the guy that you got signed with.
You signed with him right or something?

Speaker 2 (09:35):
Right, Well, we'll see. The thing was, he wasn't anything
or anybody.

Speaker 3 (09:41):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (09:42):
I don't mean to sound mean, but he was just
like a little white dude in his room. He wasn't.
I don't. I told him, uh that he probably shouldn't
call himself records quote unquote records. I forgot. His whole
thing was called but he was a record company or

(10:05):
anything by any means man he was. He was more
of a promotion, like, oh, send your bed and your
music to my page and so everyone can find you,
know what I mean. And and he got he got
our permission to share our music and all that, and
I don't know why he said he signed us. I'm like,

(10:27):
what are you talking about. You're just some dude in
your in your bedroom sharing music. That's all he's doing.
He's not he's not anything like he was like nothing.
He wasn't even in a band. Nothing he was. He
was just like some white aide sharing other people's music
in his bedroom. I'm not hating on him or anything,
but that's really all he was. And and then that
whole thing with you guys happened, and I'm like, man,

(10:48):
we just kind of we just kind of shot ourselves
on the foot on this one. And we're like, no,
you know, maybe it was for the best. I don't
know what's what happened. When the time will tell, who knows.
And I ended up stalking excuse me. I ended up
like not talking to him anymore because he was he
was all my friends list on Facebook for a while,

(11:10):
and he started trash talking my aunt and I told
him that was a cool man. I'm motto, I'm not
okay with that. And and then he's just he was
like whever he blocked me. And I haven't talked to
that deep since, and I really don't know what he's
been up to these days. I have to talk to
him about nine years man, and he's kind of I

(11:31):
don't know. He was he was, he was. He definitely
was a worse decision for you know, And I don't know, like,
I don't know why he called himselves this. I don't
know why he called himself a label or a record
label or anything. He was just a gage sharing people
music and room. That's all he was. And like like

(11:51):
I knew that. I knew that. I knew that to
begin with. And I know we were doing we're trying
to do this thing with you, but for some reason
I knew I knew that would be like album him like, dude,
I don't think you should call yourself like a record
label or a label me coming. They're just beating room
sharing music.

Speaker 3 (12:06):
That's it.

Speaker 2 (12:08):
And that all came to a head and everything came
crashing down. I'm like, okay, well back to square one.
I guess I don't know, and we're just contange on.
I don't know, it just that's just kind of like,
let's just let's just put this behind us, move on.
Just we kind of we kind of screwed up and

(12:28):
just be changed and to help whatever, and we just
went go on and that was that was it. That
was really you know, it's not like it's not that
we chose that dude over you because it was a
record label or anything. We're just we were just trying
to help him out. You know, we were just trying
to help him out by adding our music to his
his his cue of other music and sharing. And you know,

(12:53):
we were fairly new at the time, so we're trying
to get you know, we're just trying to as well.
And he wasn't. He wasn't anything. So I don't know,
I think it was just all misunderstanding of this communication.
And you know, I was was also not trying to
like Rubin. Rubin was he how to play guitar. He

(13:13):
knew how to play bass, but he was still in
the infancy of being in a band. He was probably
like in a band maybe more or less the year
at that point. And I don't want to throw a
whole lot on him. I don't want to throw a
whole lot on him because, you know, because this is
a lot you know, in contracts and all this stuff,
all this talking about all this stuff, and and we

(13:36):
were at that time, at that point that that week
that rager and played over at the Native Entertainment Studio.
The day before, we got screwed over by a promoter
and Pinion and I almost got into a fight with
that one ninety one band or their roady or whoever
he was. Looked at him and fight you, like like

(13:59):
ready to throw hands kind of fight. Yeah and yeah, yeah,
and like that too. There was a lot of miscommunication
because they didn't tell us that we had to bring
our own sound system. One night, one was there and
stas are there. Everybody had their own sound system. But
the manager of one ninety one kept coming up to

(14:19):
us and he was like, you guys need to turn
down your stuff. You're way too loud. I'm like, you
guys are the one with the giant sound systems man,
and and then like I think they're roady or something.
He kept coming up to us and he kept saying
stuff to us, and he was like you, He's like,
what's your problem, and why why are you doing this?
I'm like, dude, go back to your stuff, mind your

(14:40):
own business. We have a lig one on right here.
We're under a large stretch. We're out like two hundred
dollars because because the promoter ditched their own their own event,
and they said that we're going to pay us like
two or three hundred, and the promoter builds we're the
worst win.

Speaker 1 (15:00):
He or she I think she, Well, what who is
the promoter?

Speaker 2 (15:08):
I have no idea. I think they just worked at
the school that we were supposed to play at. I
have no idea the world. We only we only saw
them once. We only saw them once, so we're like,
you guys can go into the gym set up. That's
all they said. Then that's all we saw her. It
wasn't her, Okay, it wasn't her, and she disappeared. We
never saw her again. We tried looking for her. We tried.

(15:29):
We needed we needed answers because we had like a
ton of questions. We didn't know when to start nothing. Dude,
like like and like one n one was sitting up
on one side of the gym, and the potos were
sitting up on one side on the other side of
the gym, people are being in this stuff. There's nobody
there like audience, and nobody goes there. But the lady
gave us a spot on the stage, of which I

(15:50):
think made those other guys kind of sour. And that's
why they were saying stuff to us. And and they're like,
what do we what are we supposed to do? Man? Like,
all we have is our jump kit and our amps,
Like we don't we don't have we don't have a
sound system. And then thankfully there was a dude there.
I think he was a janitor or something. He might
just sub like two ideas, like real generic speakers, I

(16:14):
don't want to say generic, but these like, well they're
not meant to be U show speakers, you know, they're
like small meeting room kind of speakers. And we rigged, yeah,
and we we rigged. We rigged a microphone stand out
of the milk carton, like a like a milk carton
crank and a broom and a broom handle and tape

(16:37):
and it was all funky looking and we're like, dude,
the thing, well it's working, but it just looks like
this is embarrassing, you know, And and uh, we had enough, dude,
Like they were talking crap to us, and we were like,
the thing is going to go right, And we couldn't
find that that promoter anywhere. Math think they bailed or something.
And we we were out like two three hundred dollars

(16:59):
and and we made the long drive back to Window
Rocks because you know, from Fort to Pinion is long, dude,
It's a long drive and.

Speaker 1 (17:11):
A long road.

Speaker 2 (17:13):
And and the next day, prankfully, Ruben's mom she she
helped us out with gas mind to get to your
event over at the studio and that which really helped
us out. That you know that that really helped out.
She was like, she was like, here's some money, guys,

(17:33):
go go to Albuquerque and go through your thing. We're like, yes,
you know, and uh we shout out to Ruben's bomb
because she was awesome for doing that. And yeah, but
uh yeah, like I said, you know, me and Ruben
were going through some stuff at the time, band wise,
because you know, like I said, he was still fairly
new to being in a band. And I don't want

(17:56):
to I don't want to throw a whole lot on
him because he was already providing the ride. His mom
just gave us a bunch of money and and all
this other stuff, and I think she was still she
was still nervous about being on stage. And I'm not
really sure. I mean, like him being like a rookie
then going to like a professional stetup like you guys had,
was like I think it was like I think it

(18:17):
was like a little nerve wracking to him. It was
like a crap, you know. And uh so, yeah, a
little bit. I was trying to balance everything out. I
was trying to make everybody happy at that time, and unfortunately,
sadly he didn't work out that way. And yeah, long, well,
short story long, that's that's what happened.

Speaker 3 (18:40):
That's crazy. I never I never knew that. I never
knew that the day before you guys get screwed over
like that, because we did. I'll tell you this much.
We I really appreciate the fact that you mentioned that
we had a professional studio and it because we worked
their fucking answers off on it.

Speaker 1 (18:58):
There was we were this is crazy. So we were.

Speaker 3 (19:06):
Not only uh let's let's call it day jobs and
all that ship and stretching a penny. We we were
traveling from at this point in time we were traveling
from Edgewood, where we lived, to Albuquerque. We were we
couldn't afford to get the insurance on a place. We
couldn't afford to get the We could barely afford to

(19:29):
get to have the electricity on, but we had to
have electricity.

Speaker 1 (19:33):
We couldn't afford to get the gas turned on.

Speaker 3 (19:35):
Legally, you're supposed to have gas on, like and and
so because when we signed a contract.

Speaker 1 (19:40):
There, I just kept prolonging it out. So that's why
in the summer it was fucking hot and in the
winter time it was cold. We just we just told people,
oh yeah, we like it like this. We just.

Speaker 2 (19:53):
Yeah, that was that was that whole sailp was pretty
cool man.

Speaker 1 (19:56):
I was.

Speaker 2 (19:57):
I was like, wow, you know, like for you cool man,
and like only or for a moment there I felt
like I made it. But I was like, I'm.

Speaker 1 (20:06):
Oh, man, yeah.

Speaker 3 (20:10):
And then and see, that was the whole point of
doing all of that stuff was we we did want
people to because I had been to a ton of
shows throughout my life, like red shows and stuff, right,
and not just sound like a dick, but I understand
how they go. For the most part, there's a band
on some kind of stage or just ground level with
with the with the audience, and there's normally a bunch

(20:30):
of people, Like if you're jamming at the Natives, there's
normally a bunch of people just standing around bobbing their heads.
You got a couple of people kind of close and
throwing their fists in the air, and then you you
normally have one or two fucking drunk people who are
fucking really into your fucking music and they're like mashing
or trying to mash or whatever.

Speaker 1 (20:49):
Right, and yes.

Speaker 3 (20:52):
Exactly, and and so a lot of times, like when
I would talk to people, they would be talking about.

Speaker 1 (20:56):
How frustrating it frustrating it is, right, And I've always
want my people on a pedestal.

Speaker 3 (21:02):
That's best I could. And I remember that when I
was telling Sabrina was like, I'm gonna build a stage
in here.

Speaker 1 (21:09):
And we were talking about how how we have no money.

Speaker 3 (21:11):
We were barely getting we were we were only surviving
on food that we could buy from dollar dollar tree
that was right across them, the thing there, and we
were barely pinching, like we barely had new money. And
I don't know if you knew this or that, but
we were living in the by so around this time.
So just before that show started, we had moved out

(21:31):
of our house. We were putting everything into into what
we were doing at Native Entertainment.

Speaker 1 (21:36):
And so then we moved.

Speaker 3 (21:38):
Out of that house and we moved into the back room,
that backroom that's in the back and we lived back
there for a few months.

Speaker 1 (21:45):
And dude, I'll tell you it sucked.

Speaker 3 (21:47):
It sucked.

Speaker 1 (21:48):
But we never we never told anybody that we lived there.
We never said anything.

Speaker 3 (21:51):
We just said, fuck it, We're just gonna just keep pushing,
keep grinding. And uh.

Speaker 1 (21:57):
The so we didn't have any money. If I if I.

Speaker 3 (22:00):
If I kneed, like if we had money and I
knew you guys got screwed over, I would of you know,
like here's here's some cash.

Speaker 1 (22:06):
But like we could barely feed ourselves and all that
that stage was made with pallets.

Speaker 3 (22:15):
We drove and we had a little Mazda, a little
blue Masa at the time, and uh we still got it,
but that's all we had at the time. And uh,
there was a hotel a few blocks down that was
remodeling some some hobbijee hotel that was getting rid of
all their furniture and they had a bunch of pallettes
out there.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
Oh no no.

Speaker 3 (22:34):
We went down the street another direction to get pallets.
So I would stick like I mean, Serena would stick
like three or four pallets into whatever we could fit
into the Masda. Drive it a few a couple of
miles back to the to the studio, unloaded, drive back
to the place again, and then.

Speaker 1 (22:48):
When they ran out, we would have to drive. And
we just did this.

Speaker 3 (22:51):
Were days on it. And then we took all the pallettes.
We stacked them up on top of each other and
we screwed them into each other. And then.

Speaker 1 (23:02):
We uh that the.

Speaker 3 (23:03):
Hotel, motel, whatever it was they they had, they were
throwing out all this carpet and cabinets and all kinds
of stuff. So I went over there and I asked
if we could have the carpet, and they were like,
what do you want the carpet for it? It's all darty,
And I said, no, no, no, we need it for
for something, okay, but New York gets shick from it.
Go ahead, ticket, So went over there and got all

(23:25):
the carpet. We're driving down the down the street with
this big ass carpet sitting on top of the on
top of the MAS got back to the think, oh man,
it's stunk, stunk like pists and beer and cigarettes, and
we fucking we just said fuck it and we put
it on the thing, nailed it up and got it
all looking cool. Think thankfully it matched to the core
because it was dark colored, right, and so all of

(23:47):
that that whole thing, like even the paint that we
got for the walls, most of that paint was just
like a resalvage paint that we got from like ship
that people were throwing away. So holy fuck. So at
that time, we were all going through something, and it
seems like there was a lot of high stress going
on because because.

Speaker 1 (24:06):
We're all these get people who are dreaming.

Speaker 3 (24:09):
Struggling and pushing and grinding, trying to get to the
next level, trying to get to the next spot, and
it always seems like there's something getting in our way.
So I'm glad that I'm here talking to you, bro,
I'm glad that you're still pushing and you know that.

Speaker 1 (24:22):
And I'm glad that rag Hearon is still you know,
still around.

Speaker 2 (24:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Unfortunately I'm not with.

Speaker 1 (24:31):
Him, So yeah, tell me about that.

Speaker 3 (24:34):
So let me I assume that's why you hit me up,
because you hit me up out of the blue, out
of the blue today and you said I didn't leave
rag Hearon, I temporarily moved because I got married, moved
to Alabama for a while. Congrats on then, and came back.
So what you obviously heard the interview I did with

(24:59):
Brian and yes, so give me give me your side
because I'm I'm really just barely playing catch up here.

Speaker 2 (25:07):
Okay, so uh let me let me uh scroll back
a little bit. So, well, you know, after the the
whole debacle later and came to happen, we were.

Speaker 3 (25:18):
Just kind of, oh you're talking about between what what
you're talking about? What happened between like when we had
you and I had the conversation.

Speaker 2 (25:25):
Yeah, but you know the hopefully it's misunderstanding about signing
with the differentness. Yeah, yeah, it wasn't anything.

Speaker 1 (25:32):
Yes, yes, and that's what I'm saying, like anyway, Yeah,
there was a that was a huge misunderstanding.

Speaker 3 (25:37):
I concur with that, and I also apologize for my
en two because the the I should have handled that
whole thing better, but I was, I was, I.

Speaker 1 (25:44):
Was really stressed out about that time, and I haven't
really super I was super pissed.

Speaker 3 (25:50):
I gotta tell you, I was super pissed. I was
fucking I was I was kicking around, I was like,
fuck these guys, and and uh, because I was like
not no home or anything, but I was like, oh,
I was in love with rig Here, and I was like, fuck,
I love these dudes.

Speaker 1 (26:02):
I want to I want to make the music videos.
I want to Holy fuck, I want to see these
guys get big and blow up.

Speaker 3 (26:09):
And then and then all of that other stuff happened,
and and uh, yeah, all the misunderstanding, all the water
under the bridge.

Speaker 1 (26:17):
Let's just try to figure out where we're at now.

Speaker 2 (26:20):
Okay. So I'm glad we cleared that up because it
was it was something that kind of bothered me for
a while. Yeah, but here, I'm a little bit of
a people pleaser because mom just just means my personality anyway.
So uh, that's what I happened. We're just kind of,
you know, just being a band, living our life, doing
whatever it is we do. And uh, I'm me and

(26:44):
my wife, well, of course she's my girlfriend at the time,
and I went to I left Rigord for a little
bit for about two three months, I went to Alabama
temporarily came back and.

Speaker 3 (26:59):
What you.

Speaker 2 (27:02):
I'm sorry, what what year was that. Let's say about
twenty fifteen, okay, no, fourteen A well fourteen okay. We
left like during one We left like like during the
music the Resi Music Festival Wonder Rock when Doyle was
there the first time, the game going frank.

Speaker 1 (27:22):
And oh yeah, yea yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:24):
I really wanted to stay and watch that, but we
had to hit the road. We had to keep going
because we were kind of on a times the string.
So we we got into our vand and we drove
all the Alabama. I was gone for about three months,
just took the Greyhound back, never doing that again. Greyhound
is horrible.

Speaker 1 (27:44):
It's like the city bus, but you're stuck with them. Yeah,
all the worst people for longer.

Speaker 2 (27:50):
Yeah yeah, and uh me and my wife broke him
for a while or you know o the time she
was we broke it for a while, go back together
and decided to get married because I don't know, it
was just I felt right and there was something I
wanted to do and I was here, she was still
in Alabama. So and then later that you got married

(28:14):
and I moved with her to Alabama, and I was
therefore about fourteen fifteen months, and I told the guys,
I'm like, look, I'm I don't know how long I'm.

Speaker 3 (28:27):
Going to be there.

Speaker 2 (28:28):
Guys want to continue to band about me, go for it.
I was like, don't stop. I think the actually did
play one or two shows without me. I'm not really sure.
And then some stuff happened in Alabama with my job
at the time, and I felt way behind on bills
and like rent everything, and I just got real bad,

(28:54):
and of course impersonal stuff happened between my wife and
my family. So we were like, we're going back to Arizona.
Let's do it. And thankfully I got I got our
taxi turned and my paycheck like practically in the same day,
which gave us like a lot of money. We got
this really big We were out of that place and

(29:16):
like a day, like we packed up and we left
and came back and like, hey, guys, I'm home, and
uh we picked up Rigor and well we left off.
And I want to say that was about seventeen twenty seventeen,
and everything's been normal since then. From seventeen to last year,

(29:37):
everything is normal. Except that Jeff left well I gave
him a choice, really, he chose to leave, and and
that we were looking for a drummer. We had some
mishap stand there and like Brian said, uh, our friend

(30:03):
Germaine got a hold of me. He was like, hey,
and a little guy, and I'll set you up with him.
And Brian wrote to me and I was like, yeah, dude,
whenever you're back from al Mar Gordon, let's do it.
And I sent him some songs and I'm like, I'm
still like surprised that he remembers those songs because I
totally forgot and Daddy like the whole of him being

(30:25):
blind and it didn't bother me at all because I
was a caregiver for special needs and him being blind
and phasing and ah, it just fased me. I was like, Okay,
well that's that's cool.

Speaker 1 (30:43):
You know.

Speaker 3 (30:44):
I was liked.

Speaker 2 (30:45):
He was like, dude, I have a I have to
tell you something. I was like, okay, like what is that?
And I thought he was going to be like I'm
on hard drug orsell and or I drink hil or
something like that. I thought I was doing something really
bad like that, and you like he's like I'm blying, like, oh,
is that is? That was like cool? I was like,
I mean, I mean it's not cool, but you know

(31:07):
what I mean. Yeah, And I was like, yeah, dude,
Like I'm not going to like dismissed you because you're blind.
That's stupid. I was like, dude, this man, that's cool,
Like you've been probably about cool, but you know what
I mean, this game do it? And yeah, and so
again we're just continuing being a band. Everything went really good. Uh,

(31:31):
Steve from h from Uh Poison Insanity and Boy in
Winter was jumping on and off as a guitar player
and uh. But last year, the thing's kind of that's
to talk about things a weird turn. It was really

(31:57):
it was very stressful last year because August August twenty
August twenty twenty two, I lost my older brother and
that was something that really it still bothers me to

(32:20):
this day. Of course, you know, she was my oldly brother.
She was my only brother. And I'm the youngest of four.
He was the oldest, and the two middle are are
both my older sisters. So I'm the youngest of the four.
And so at the beginning of the beginning of last year.

(32:40):
It was really you know, things are really weighing on me.
And also, you know, now that I hit my mid thirties,
I developed somewhere along the way. I developed them on
set asthma and or asthma or at least that's what they.

Speaker 3 (32:59):
Say, And.

Speaker 2 (33:02):
Where's going on?

Speaker 3 (33:05):
Sorry?

Speaker 2 (33:07):
Yeah, And so I had some breathing issues going on,
and a lot of that happening in and man, I'm
trying to remember. Okay, So last March, just over a
year ago March, we met, well not met, but encountered

(33:28):
on that band, a band I don't know if I
want a name job or not. But they kind of
uh Brian's mentioned them, uh, they they kind of poached
my members. So they made it really they made it

(33:50):
really difficult for Agurn too to breathe. I guess, you know, like, hey,
we got this show and they're like, oh, I already
booked a show with this band, and they're like okay.
And it was interviewing, it was interfering with a lot
of records plans, and I was like, Okay, that sucked,
you know. And and at the same time, Levi, I

(34:12):
don't know if you remember him, the bays start he
he came back around, and I don't I don't want
to mention kind of personal all that, But he came
back around and he was like, hey, do you want
to do you want to get fight stars going again.
I'm like, I'm like, I don't know, ideal, Like I'll

(34:33):
think about it, Like I'm not really I'm not really
into the whole horror aspect anymore. You know, I'm not
really into the whole horror one thing anymore. Like I'll
still listenally like horror music every now and again, like
I also listening to him, but I'm not like, I'm
not really that into it where I want to dress
up and do all that anymore, you know, because I

(34:56):
don't want to do like I guess you could say
I let go of that part of me a long
time ago, you know, the whole dressing up, putting on
makeup and you know, singing about universal horror monsters and
all that.

Speaker 1 (35:14):
And.

Speaker 2 (35:16):
There were just wasn't me anymore. Like like okay, like
you know, there's people out there that want to write
horror punks and they're really good at it. They can
do that, you know, that's that's their thing. And I
think he's probably still thinking that's what we're going to do.
But I told him straight up that I don't want
to do it anymore. Dressing that's not who I am anymore.

(35:39):
And I am not going to fill on makeup. I'm
not going to sing about that kind of stuff anymore
because you know, like Jared Jerry, ironically Jerry Only from Misfits,
he was like, I'm not going to write about things
that I don't want my kids to hear, you know,
So I kind of I kind of played that to myself,
like I don't really write about things that I don't
my here, you know, And I mean, I don't have

(36:00):
kids if I can't say that. But that I kind
of picked that motto onto myself about what Jerry Only said.
And yeah, and you know, I think I feel like
there's just enough negative, Like the world's just already dark enough.
You that's like enough negativity everybody, like especially at RESI

(36:21):
metal shows and stuff like, I'm like, I don't want
to add to it, man, Like this is not part
of me anymore, This is not who I am. You know,
you gotta show you gotta let a little light shine
through in the dark times, man, And you know you
got to show people that not everything's gone to crap
and you know, and that that mindset has kind of

(36:42):
paid off. And that's kind of the mindset we had
in the beginning with Ray Yurn. We were not because
we wrote we wrote that song Lost Woods, and that
song is basically it's about you know, just just living, dude,

(37:02):
getting getting through you know, getting through, getting through dark times.
The song is based off the legend of Zelda octuring
at a time when you're when you're lost in the
lost woods, place called the Lost Woods, you got to
listen to the music and wherever the music's loudys you
follow it and it leads you out of that place.
And that was kind of the kind of the thing
what I was kind of going for. And I think

(37:25):
it paid off because it was like this one guy,
he came up to me into a sainte. He was like, dude,
I really liked I really liked that song you wrote,
you know, the Lost Wood song, and he was like,
it really it really it really pumped, not pump, but
it really pushed me through something that I was going through.
And I was like, that was a song that it
really helped me. And I was like, all right, you

(37:45):
know cool man, I'm glad you're I'm glad you're still
I don't know what your situation was, but I'm glad
you're here telling me. Dude, like, I hope you know.
Whatever you're going through, I hope I hope you keep going. Man,
it's like that stop whatever it.

Speaker 1 (37:57):
Is, you know.

Speaker 2 (37:59):
And I still have that mindset to this day, because
like I'm a I'm a Christian and I try to
like I know a lot of people both like that
are not going to agree with it, but I like,
you know, you know, that would make sense about why
I don't want to do the whole horror thing and
thinking about that kind of stuff, but you know, like no,

(38:22):
just just try to just try to write better stuff,
you know, for for a nerdy, darkened world. And you know,
like I don't know, I don't know how to explain it.
You just let the life of God's shied through your know,
That's just how it is. And you know that's kind

(38:46):
of the mindset I had from coming into Rigor. And
I guess it's pretty complicated anyway. I gotta, I gotta,
I gotta, I gotta. I'm sorry, Matt, I I bunny
shacked a little bit. Okay, So last year I lost
my brother and about that time we were we were

(39:06):
going through a lot again. So I have my members
coached or as stollen, or they joined off, they ran
off and joined another band while still being in our band, which.

Speaker 3 (39:17):
Is not a problem.

Speaker 2 (39:18):
I don't have a problem with that. But when you
have you know, you know, if you're a band, if
you're in a band, in that band has a priority
over a band that you just joined. I think, you know,
you should stick to the band that you prioritize, you know,
like like like like hey, we have a show this day,

(39:40):
you know, and then that person should be like, oh,
I don't know if his band is my priority band.
Let me check with them first. If you have a
show that day, then yours is just kind of takes
the backseat, you know. And and but just like they
were prioritizing their bands over a urin was really hard

(40:00):
for us to move forward and we really know to
do some me and RUP and just kind of like
we're just like uh okay, and we just kind of
well we didn't say we were going to take a
break or anything like that. We're just kind of, you know,
we're pumping the Brakes a little bit, and we're like, okay,
let's just wait till everybody gets their shows out of
the way and we'll start rolling again. And and so

(40:26):
Steve So the band that Steve and Briant joined didn't
quit that band because they said a bad taste in
their mouth.

Speaker 1 (40:37):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (40:38):
I don't want to bad amount those guys, but this
is just what I was hearing. And and they left
and I kind of burnt out Steve. Steve was like,
you know what after that, I kind of don't want
to do anything anymore. So I'm just gonna focus on
my band. And in Winter were like that's fine, dude,

(40:59):
Like and I was like me, me, Reuben and Brian
got this thing. We can we can carry this, like,
don't worry. You want to go before it, do what
you need to do. And then Brian was like, hey,
I uh, I know somebody that can fill in for
a while. And I was like, okay, because we had
we had, we had uh d r I is that

(41:22):
what they're called.

Speaker 1 (41:25):
The punk then?

Speaker 3 (41:27):
Yeah, they're just celebrating I think the thirty nice year
of the initial release of the first album.

Speaker 1 (41:35):
This year.

Speaker 2 (41:35):
Yeah, yeah, so we had, we had, we had at
the beginning of the week, we had that show, we
had dr I. Then two days later, literally two days later,
we had a band called uh Faya Sea it's like

(41:55):
all chick fans in Texas. And two days later so
it was like Monday, Wednesday and Fridays. On Friday, we
had Doyle with kaeon Frankenstein. So we had like this
crazy week. It was crazy week. It was coming up.
And on top of that, we had h We did

(42:17):
an interview with Rachel Basto with I think It's the
Gallup Independent or Now with Times one of the things.
Sorry man, if you're listening, one of the two we
had interviewed. We did an interview with him, and then
we did an interview with Red Metal Podcast, like all
in the same week. Dude, that was just going on.

(42:41):
That It was just that that going on, and we
had like stuff going on in our personal lives. And
you know, like I said earlier, I'm like a like
a people pleaser. I'm trying to like I want to
make everybody happy, Like I want everyone to be happy.
I want everyone to just jam out and mights all
be cool, you know, And and I guess you know,

(43:05):
Steve was leaving and I was like, okay, so we're good,
and but Brian was like, yeah, I have I know
somebody that we can uh like, she's fill in keyword,
there is fill in And I was like, okay, bring
him over. And then and then he brought He brought

(43:25):
in another dude that was in the band that he
just left. So I was like, okay, so he was
he's pretty good. He's really good, and and I was
like and then we auditioned him to fill in, and
I'm like, yeah, dude, you're feeling pretty good. I think
he'll be ready by I think he'll be ready by

(43:48):
the time these these three shows come along, and I
think we'll be okay. Then all of a sudden, Steve
changed his mind and he wanted to he wanted to
jump back on one of the shows was a Doyle one,
and things got complicated from there. I was like, this
is how it is. I'm not trying to trash talk anybody,

(44:09):
but things got complicated and I'm like, okay, so how
do I do this? Like do we have three guitars
on stage? So what are we gonna do?

Speaker 4 (44:18):
And and I was like I don't, like, like we
were all just stressed out and like and I was like,
you know what, let's let's all of us go on stage.

Speaker 2 (44:30):
Oh well whatever.

Speaker 3 (44:31):
It was just have fun.

Speaker 2 (44:32):
And then and then all three of us we were
set to get on stage. That was just like a
concept idea, like they the dude, the other dames spives
could play like leads and like stuff like that. Well,
I just do rhythm and have a lot of whole
parts that pause parts. And and I got like I

(44:56):
woke up one day. I not woke up, but like
I checked my phone one day and I was like Rubens,
he was like really pissed off about us being about
us started having three guitars, and he gave me yeah,
he uh, he gave me a fearful about having three guitars.
And I'm like, I'm trying to figure this out, dude,
Like I don't know what to do. And and that

(45:21):
whole week was just it was really bad, Like like
the show was like really good, but the whole like
behind the scenes was like it was not that great.
You know everyone's I don't know and and and I
don't know, I see Ray Gerns just kind of it

(45:45):
changed somehow. It wasn't fun anymore for me, Like too
many people were getting involved, and like there was no
new music coming out. I mean we had like were
two of these songs, and I was I was getting

(46:06):
tired of playing the same place as man like with
Ray gurn we We I'm okay. I just wanted to
say real quick that Flagstaff, Albuquerque, Bloomfield, Farmton, Shiprock. I
love those places. I'm not not talking about about him.
I love those places, but those are the only places
we were playing games, Like like every other week we're

(46:28):
back in Flagstaff, and like this week we're an Albuquerque
given and we're back in Flagstaff, and then we're in
Gallop a lot. Every now and again we're in Bloomfield,
and it was just those places. Man. I'm like, I
was starting to like have some kind of show fatigue,
that makes sense. And I was like, okay, you know, okay,

(46:56):
that's cool. You know yeah Flagstaff, yeah, uh school And
I think for me the tipping point was I've known
Reuben since two thousand and three or four. I've known

(47:17):
him a very long time.

Speaker 5 (47:19):
I've known him when he was a roadie for six
ninety nine and before that, like I went to high
school with him, and he has not changed the whole
lot since high school.

Speaker 2 (47:34):
And from that time to about this time last year.
I don't know the exact date last year, but for
the first time and both are alive, he got into
a fight.

Speaker 1 (47:49):
Like an argument or like a physical sight not a.

Speaker 2 (47:52):
Physical it's probably thankfully it wasn't a physical fight. It
wasn't you know, fish weren't flying or anything, but like
like we were like heated, kind of like raising our
voices at each other. We've never done that before ever
in our lives. Not one. I mean, we've had like

(48:13):
small arguments and like like disagreements, you know, like we
go out into this nerve, but we've never.

Speaker 3 (48:21):
Had like.

Speaker 2 (48:24):
An arguments fight, like like we were heated, like yelling
at each other. We've never done that ever in our life.

Speaker 1 (48:33):
Was What was it all about? What led to it?

Speaker 3 (48:42):
Like like it.

Speaker 2 (48:44):
It's really hard to pinpoint for me because I felt
like I was the one screwing up a lot. I
felt like I wasn't really who I was supposed to
be because people are leaving my band and joining other bands.
I felt like I felt like I wasn't good enough

(49:06):
in a way, and like and like I said, it
was just getting crowded man like people were there that
didn't need to be there. And the dude, the dude

(49:27):
that I was just talking about, I don't want to
drum because I don't want to get an ankut in trouble.
But he was a minor. He's seventeen, and I did
not I was one against the idea of a minor joint.
Too many restrictions, yeah, too many red flags, if you will,

(49:51):
too many. It's just not a good idea. No, especially
if everybody's in their thirties, mid thirties one up and
he's like seventeen. It's just not good idea. You know,
I can't play, you can't play of certain venues, can't
do a whole lot. You know. His parents follow him

(50:12):
around and things like that. But they're good people. They're
great people. I love talking to them of joking with them.
But it was just something that we didn't need at
the time, you know. And and somewhere along the way, somehow,

(50:35):
apparently I hired him. I auditioned him to join the
band full time. Somewhere along the way I did that.
I don't remember. Everyone swears that I did that. I
was the one that said, okay, you can jump on

(50:58):
full time you're in the band. Now know I'm not
trying to be a jerk, but I don't remember at
any point ever saying that ever, because, like I said,
dude was a minor. I was percent against him joining.
I was auditioning him to fill in for those three

(51:19):
shows because we needed somebody, and apparently he was going
to leave, and so I felt like people were just
putting words in my mouth and in a way underminding me,
which made me feel like crap, And I'm like, Okay,
I'm not really needed. This is getting ridiculous and it's sucky,

(51:45):
like this is uh, I'm not saying this is really
their fault that I left. It was just like how, like, oh,
you're the one that said he could join. I was like, no,
I didn't say you can join. I just think he
could fill in. And then somewhere along the way it
was just like, you know what, I feel like I'm

(52:08):
not wanted here in a way sort.

Speaker 1 (52:10):
Of in your own day, and yeah, and.

Speaker 2 (52:17):
He does, like, honestly, there's some things that have been
said to me privately that was kind of really hurtful.
I don't know if he remembers it, but you know,
there's some things that were said to me that were
a little hurtful, but no, I let it go because
you all that our friends do and and I think

(52:44):
the the tipping point was just you know, that fight
that me and Rubin had, that that is what really
pushed me. I'm not I'm not. I'm not ashamed to
say that. I cried, dude. I got in my vehicle,
I drove to my breath was grave. I parked there,
and I cried, man, because that was the first time
we've ever gotten to in that kind of fighting or heard.

(53:06):
I heard so bad that I called my wife and
I told her everything, and she was like, take your time,
I mean home, don't rush like you're a little distress.
And She's like, just just be careful. And I was like, yeah,
I'm here, I'm here, you know, my brother's grave and
I'm just kind of venting to him and and it

(53:28):
sucked even like that was a really low point for me,
and I didn't really see it changing in time, and
I was like, okay, no. And there's some things I
apologized for, like I kind of craft on Reuben's music,

(53:48):
like the stuff he wrote, kind of craft on it
in front of like to him. But you know that
apologize to that for that. And you know, we during
one of the shows, we hugged it out a little bit.
I broke down, I started crying again, and I we
hugged it out. I said, I'm sorry, I'm going through

(54:08):
a lot and the things here are just weird.

Speaker 3 (54:12):
Man.

Speaker 2 (54:12):
I'm like, I still at that point, it's just and
we'll see. It was about some months still lost my brother,
and it was still still thankful and and just that
that January, just a couple of months before, we lost
a friend who was a friend of all of us.

(54:33):
It was actually a very big supporter of ray gear
and you lived literally right down the street from me
and we've been in friendship with him for a very
long time and he just he just passed. So that
was kind of, you know, that kind of feeled a
little bit. So it's kind of hard to say why

(54:53):
I left. It was like the fight was definitely that
fight we had was definitely one of them. Because I
don't want I left because I don't want to do
that with him anymore. I don't want to get into
a fight with him again because that reminded me of
getting into a fight with my own brother. You know,
the only brother I had, and Rubens older than me,

(55:14):
and it was like getting into a fight with your
older brother all over again, and it hurt. And that's
why I left. One of the reasons why I left.
The next one was like everyone was like, Okay, you're
the one that booked this, You're the one that hired
this guy. He's in the band.

Speaker 3 (55:32):
You said so.

Speaker 2 (55:34):
So that was kind of like a screw you a
moment and everyone just kind of shoved their words into
my mouth and I'm like, I didn't. I didn't say
he could join. I just said he could still include
these two shows.

Speaker 3 (55:44):
That's it.

Speaker 2 (55:45):
But apparently I hired the dude and his family follows
him everywhere he goes, and I'm like, well, there's nothing
wrong with that. But again, like I said, I was
against against hiring a minor because his family has all
him and all this a lot of restrictions and I
don't want to do that, and it's just it was

(56:06):
it was literally crowded, and they're great people. They're good people.
I'm sorry it's coming hop away it sounds, but that's
just that's just an ugly truth. That's true. And another
another reason why I left. I was like I was,

(56:28):
I wasn't really using my own stuff. I mean, like
I wrote the music. A lot of the music came
from me, I want to say about eighty percent of
the tame for me, more or less, you know. And
I was using I was using their guitars at their gear,
I was catching a ride with them all the time.
And and then you know, some things are said to

(56:55):
me about that, and it made me feel horrible.

Speaker 1 (56:59):
Me feel like.

Speaker 2 (57:02):
Like again, I wasn't enough, I wasn't doing enough, and
it just it made me feel like not a great person. Well,
and I'm like, okay, so apparently I'm a really big
scrip and and I'm not. I'm not trying to I'm

(57:23):
not trying to write a sob story here. I'm not
trying to make anybody feel sorry for me. This is
just how it happened, and that's hopefully to the best
of my knowledge, and it's just how things are. Yeah,
And I was like, well, for my mental health sake

(57:44):
and for my physical health because you know, like I said,
the whole asthma thing. And I was like, well, I
have five sellers to fall back on. We're gonna take
it slow, of course, because we by losing Phoenis and
me and Jeff are are still here on the Reds
and that's just fine. No, that's cool because I think

(58:05):
I could use the brake a little bit. And the
I think I think these guys can carry on without me.
I think they'll be okay to them. I think Reuben's
a good leader. I think over the past twelve years,
I've built him up to that point where he can
leave the band himself, and I think he'll he'll be okay.
And and the thing that hurt the most is like,

(58:29):
I think, you know, I'm not missed, man, I'm not
missed because the band blew up in popularity. That's where
I left, and that hurt.

Speaker 3 (58:42):
Dude.

Speaker 2 (58:43):
I was like, man, I guess I was the problem.
And I was like, I guess, so it was just
those all I guess it was. Yeah, I was I
was one holding them back. I guess it was me.
You know that they're blowing up these they're like they're
like eating shows here and there. They're gaining all kinds

(59:03):
of new fans and they you know, they've seen some
things really quick that I couldn't really do. And they're
having the time of their lives. From videos that I see,
and I'm like, you know, and I tried to touch
Ruben over the past few months, but to Noville, haven't
heard anything back, and part of me wants to go

(59:28):
back to that band. But at the same time, I'm like,
you know, I think maybe this is for the best.
You know, I did my part. My era is gone,
you know, my story is done with that band. If not,
then that was just a chapter of the new ones coming.
Who knows, and so, yeah, you know, me leaving Grey Gerne,

(59:51):
it wasn't It wasn't that. It's split of the split,
split decision. It wasn't a spur of the moment kind
of thing. It was. It was some pretty crappy events.
I led it to it, and I really really do.
That's just hopefully that's the truth and that's what really happened.
People will probably we'll come back and say, oh, no,

(01:00:14):
this is how it happened, or no, this is what
he did and this is what he said. I'm like
that that's just how I feel. That's just how I felt,
you know, That's just how I felt, and that that
was that was it, Like I guess, I guess the
takeaway was that I was I.

Speaker 1 (01:00:34):
Was the issue.

Speaker 2 (01:00:35):
I was a problem. But hey, I'm not perfect. So
I'm glad, you know they're I'm glad, they continued. I'm
glad they're still going. No, they're they're playing some really
good shows, tack. They even got onto that four corners
four corners mouth and yeah, you know, it's apparent they

(01:00:58):
don't need me. So that's that, I guess.

Speaker 1 (01:01:06):
Yeah, do you have any idea of what you're gonna
do next?

Speaker 2 (01:01:10):
I mean, right now, I'm just taking care of my
mental health, taking care of my sugical wealth, because I
was the heaviest that I've ever been and thankfully I
dropped some weight and uh uh, my mental health is

(01:01:33):
not the best right now, but I'm still working on it.
But honestly, honestly is like, I really don't know, like
I might just we might. Like My My musical upbringing
is uh. We started out in a church Sato with

(01:01:59):
Levi and Jeff and our friends. Phil Phill was a
white boy from uh is a white boy from a uh, Michigan.
He was our business management teacher in high school. He
taught us how to be a band. He taught us
how to carry ourselves. He taught us how to act
on stage, how to interact with the crowd, stuff like that.

(01:02:20):
And you know, he's the one that kind of pulled
us out of that whole regimental mentality. Not that not
that there's anything wrong with that, but he was like,
because that's what that's all we were back then, like
me and Jeff, like all we were just all about
Maid and Talca Slayer, you know, all that stuff, like
starter packed stuff. And I still love it. I'm no

(01:02:44):
friends to anybody, but but he was like, hey, guess what,
that stuff's all cool and all, but you guys want
to try some ramones or like who We're just like
kids at the time, and he's like, want to try
some ramones? You know the Pixies, white stripes, stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (01:03:02):
But I just do it.

Speaker 2 (01:03:02):
And then yeah, and he taught us a lot that
he taught us. He taught us how to structure, he
taught us, you know, counting, he taught us. He taught
us off easy, like one of the very first songs
we've ever learned with like Fwitz Creek Bob with him.
And he taught us a lot. And he he unfortunately moved,
he moved to Pasadena for a while then he went

(01:03:24):
back to uh, he went back to Michigan. Eventually he
moved back, he moved to Chicago, and he opened up
his own coffee shop. That's just going on to this day.
And so what I might do is, you know, talk
to Jeff and Levi and take our time. Just go slow.

(01:03:48):
We're we're not we're gonna we're not going to return
to the five stars name because we're not going to
return to the five sellar's name because, uh, there's like
two bands out there that are signed with that name.
And although the band yeah yeah, yeah, we're so five

(01:04:10):
sellars five dollars below a coach from a band called
foots Kid Boots Kid is highly highly highly influential to us,
Like they're one of our top tens fight like top five,
you know, highly highly influential, And we got their blessing
and their permission to use that name when we open
to them in the flag staff that we're like, that's cool,

(01:04:31):
that's fine, muse it. We got you know, word of mouth.
That was in two thousand and nine. But now we're
like times have changed, we're older, Like we don't want
to I don't want to get into any legal trouble
using them, like like, I think we should move on
and use something else. And if I was against the

(01:04:53):
idea for a while, he was like, I don't. I
don't see why. We're like that's how people know it.
And I'm like, yeah, but it's not really. I know,
like what she said in the interview with Bryant, there
was some kind of identity crisis going on, and I'm like,

(01:05:15):
we got to find something that'll define who we are.
If somebody looks us up five dollars below, it's going
to take him to blitz Kid's album by Stars. I'm
not going to come back to us, but we gotta
find something unique to us. And like, I just like

(01:05:37):
when it comes to music writing, like I said before,
I don't want to do the whole horse, and I
just I just want to be a band, man. I
just want to write music and jam out and have
fun and travel. That's really all I want to do.
But these days it's too much to ask for. And
but I think I just want to keep it simple, man.

(01:05:59):
I just want to go back to my root, so
to my closest friends, and just write what we came
out was in the beginning, you know, and just stay
that way till we all expire or something. I don't know,

(01:06:19):
And that's probably more more realistic than anything right now, honestly,
And it might happen, it might not happen. I'm gonna
push for it, but maybe not as much as I
did before because I'm getting old and I don't feel
as good as I used to. But but that's that's

(01:06:39):
kind of what's an future. You know. I'm gonna take
the slow we're gonna write. I'm gonna try to write
the best of my ability music I have or what
I can. If if everyone wants to talk to me again,
he hasn't talked to me in a long time. Cool,
you know, if he he says, if he offers, gives
me the offer to come back, mhm, I don't know. Uh,

(01:07:04):
I mean, I may not take it, you know what
the circumstances are or you know whether what are the
conditions it is, But I hope they don't stop because
I worked. I worked much too hard for than just
to quit. Yeah, I worked like I pushed my product
for our music to get played another country and we

(01:07:26):
did it, and yeah, you have.

Speaker 1 (01:07:33):
That's just like what what's the following like in other
countries what countries are you talking about?

Speaker 3 (01:07:38):
Are you talking about streaming or are you talking about like,
like what are you talking h This was this was
a while back.

Speaker 2 (01:07:46):
It was a while back, but we were we were
This was also about the time we were working with you.
It was a while back. We were working with not working,
but we're submitting our music to a British a British teament.
Diz was his name, HRP Radio. He has like a

(01:08:10):
podcast thing going on. A lot of people cam do
and a lot of people.

Speaker 1 (01:08:16):
I didn't even know what the fuck a podcast was
back then.

Speaker 2 (01:08:21):
Me neither. I thought it was just like an app
and download and listen to the radio. Well that's basically
what it is. I didn't even know what it was.

Speaker 3 (01:08:27):
Yeah, I mean when people tell me like you should
start an app, you should do this, and like, what
the fuck what are you talking about?

Speaker 2 (01:08:35):
Yeah? I thought I thought podcast was all just like
political stuff, you know, like political talk shows.

Speaker 1 (01:08:41):
Yeah, yeah, like like.

Speaker 3 (01:08:42):
AM radio the ship you listened to when you're driving
eight hours in its night or something like fifteen hours and.

Speaker 2 (01:08:48):
Yeah, yeah, I thought that's really what it was. But
apparently has a wide variety of different things.

Speaker 3 (01:08:53):
Yeah, you know, because I didn't really I didn't discover
like when Joe Rogan maybe like right just before the
pandemic happened, maybe like a year before or something. I
didn't even know that was a podcast. And I, because
I was his intro came on jo real good podcast.
I was like, podcast, but he's just talking to people.
I do that all the time, like you know, like

(01:09:15):
like this ship, and I was like, oh.

Speaker 1 (01:09:17):
I should have been I could have been doing a
podcast this whole fucking time. That ship would have been
way cheaper.

Speaker 2 (01:09:24):
Yeah. I actually listened to all of your episodes. Yeah.
The last time I listened to it was with Stewart.
Oh yeah, yeah, and I think that's the last one.
I think.

Speaker 1 (01:09:39):
Well, see, here's the thing.

Speaker 3 (01:09:40):
The I've been trying to figure out what the fuck
I'm gonna do next, like like how I'm gonna do
it right? And yeah, because I'm at that point in
my life where I'm just I'd like to turn a
profit doing this ship, to be honest, right, I'd like
to turn a profit down this.

Speaker 1 (01:09:59):
I'd like to make it a p offerable careers. So
I but you know, because there comes.

Speaker 3 (01:10:03):
A point when you have to you're either gonna do
this as an expensive hobby, or you're gonna do this
and it's gonna put money in your pocket so you
can continue to do this, right, And so I was
experimenting with stuff, and so the Gooder Kind podcast, I
was like, all right, you know what, I'm just gonna
focus on my Gooder Kind stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:10:22):
So good Er Kind is like my air Quotes band,
you know, my my music stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:10:27):
And I was like, oh, I love drawing, I love animation,
I love making music, and I just I'm I'm a
studio artist. So I just kind of fucking out with
all kinds of music from country, death metal, musicals, whatever
the fuck right, And I can, I can put all
that into this, but I still want to talk to artists,
and I still want to talk to people who who
have figured out how to crack the code. And because

(01:10:50):
I think I'm I'm like a lot of other people
out there, probably you included, can't crack the fucking code.
How do I like that thing that says, why do
I fuck still got to get a day job? Why
do I still gotta do this other bullshit? Why can't
I fucking be a millionaire?

Speaker 1 (01:11:05):
Yet? You know what I mean? And you know right.

Speaker 2 (01:11:09):
I'm like, there's like there's like there's like sixteen year
old kids millions.

Speaker 3 (01:11:14):
Yeah, it's it's really, it's really, it's really frustrating because
and when I when I look at all this, when
I look at RES bands throughout the years, right through
the decades, and I see these I see these bands,
they come up, they blow up, you know, get res famous,
and then they disappear.

Speaker 1 (01:11:32):
Sometime down the road.

Speaker 3 (01:11:33):
You might meet one or two of them and and
they're they're working on an oil field, or they just
gave up on life and they're drinking, they're doing drugs
or some bullshit or something, and you're like, God, damn,
your your fucking band.

Speaker 1 (01:11:43):
As bad as fuck? What happened? Oh man?

Speaker 3 (01:11:45):
And have some excuse of what happened? And and then
you see that over and over and over rints and repeat,
rints and repeat. You see these cool ass fucking bands
that once were fucking cool and and they made they
made music, and you're like, oh, fucking yeah, but something happened.

Speaker 1 (01:12:01):
I don't know what the fuck it is.

Speaker 3 (01:12:02):
I don't know if they just fucking got too much
into the drinking and the drugs and the pussy and whatever.
Else I don't know what it is, or maybe maybe.

Speaker 1 (01:12:11):
Because because honestly, all of that, like if we're gonna
speak honestly, all.

Speaker 3 (01:12:15):
Of that gets in the way. And because pussy can
lead am In down the wrong path fast. And and
when when a female, when a female sees that a
guy is getting a lot of tension, especially somebody in
the band, right, she's gonna be jealous of that guy
going out and doing his shows. So because she already
knows she met him at the show and she sucked

(01:12:36):
his dick at the show. And now there's gonna be
other bitches gonna be out there who want to do
the same thing and steal her man from him.

Speaker 1 (01:12:42):
Now she's not gonna have this cool rocker guy anymore.

Speaker 3 (01:12:44):
And then it just goes downhill. And I've seen it
too many times, and I just, uh, when I look
at that, I'm like, dang, they didn't crack the code.
They were close, maybe they were close, but they didn't
crack the code. And then I see other people doing
things like that over the years, and even myself, I've
done some cool ass fucking shit. One offset will never
be replicated again, like just you know, like the magazine

(01:13:08):
nobody ever did shit like that before, and nobody's done
it since.

Speaker 1 (01:13:11):
I don't know why. I don't know why.

Speaker 2 (01:13:12):
I wish I wish that would have kept going.

Speaker 1 (01:13:15):
Man, that was really yeah, I really like that thing.

Speaker 2 (01:13:18):
Man, that was cool.

Speaker 1 (01:13:20):
Dude. I fucking enjoyed doing that ship.

Speaker 3 (01:13:22):
But I reached a point where you got to where
you where you're saying, I didn't enjoy this shit anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:13:28):
This this stuff is just it doesn't feel like.

Speaker 3 (01:13:32):
It doesn't feel like home anymore, doesn't feel like the
thing you love, the thing that used to get you
out of bed, Like if you got up at three
in the morning, it didn't matter because you're gonna get
up and go do the thing you love.

Speaker 1 (01:13:41):
And you know that kind of thing.

Speaker 3 (01:13:44):
And I i too, I wish that it would have
blown up the way it did. But there's so many
fucking haters in our community, so many backstabbing bitches, so
many fucking treacherous, poisonous people. And then I'm also gonna
reflect the mirror. I always try to look in the
mirror my ego. I'm a fucking asshole. I have a
fucking ego, and I've been trying to kill that motherfucker
for the last decade, and I'm doing better. I feel

(01:14:07):
better with myself, I feel better being around people. I
still have social anxiety. I've always been this anti social
kind of guy. I've always been the kind of guy
that doesn't like being in crowds. I don't like I'm
great with interactions. I can fucking getting any crowd, talk
to anybody from any race, ethnicity, country. I don't give
a shit. I'm gonna fucking be in there and I
will crack some jokes when we're gonna fucking you know what,

(01:14:30):
You'll think, Oh, there's nothing wrong with this guy. But
in the back of my mind, I'm gonna I'm gonna
have this anxiety, like wondering who's gonna try to stab me,
who's gonna try to back stab me, who's here the
fucking like, I'm always just fucking I always gotta have
my back to the wall, and I want to see
where the exits are at, where the fuck, what the
fuck's everybody doing? And I have to be away from people.
That's why I don't go to these crowds and these
shows and all of this a sudden the bullshit, But

(01:14:52):
I I wish I could crack the code. I wish
you could crack the code. Fuck I wish I wish
I could build something where everybody could crack the code.
And I've always wanted that to be the native entertainment thing,
you know, where native entertainment is this thing where people
can come here, they get on the cover of the
magazine or featured in a magazine, and then they blow
up right. And don't get me wrong, there's a lot

(01:15:12):
of people who came into the magazine and they they
they got opportunities, like countless people have come through and
they got these like, oh man, I was a struggling
model and wander about it. And then they get in
the magazine and all of a sudden they're getting offers.
They call us, Oh my god, I got so many
offers to do acting and modeling. And then like when

(01:15:35):
you ask them for like, oh, can you give us
a testimonial fuck that this wasn't because of you, It's
because of me. And the same thing with a lot
of bands and rappers and fucking just and it's just
like what the fuck, why can't why can't our people
We always have all this bullshit where we're talking about
let's rise up together, let's let's do this, and YadA YadA,
But it's not really like that. I've discovered over the

(01:15:56):
course of my tenure of over twenty five years in
a music underground the our people are selfish as fuck
and and they're poisonous. But I wish I could even
even beyond that. I still wish I could create something
like this Native Tanton bullsheit. I'm so fucking with that
where somebody like whether it's from Yggear and Sacred Blood,

(01:16:20):
whoever the fuck is out there, signal night and I
to come here put their music and maybe they get
discovered by somebody and they get the BILLI million dollars
that they deserve, or or they get the views that
they're looking for or the fuck you know. But more
than likely this is this is my prediction based on history.
This whole thing is gonna fucking tank again, and I'm
gonna walk away from it, and I'm gonna bury it,
and I'm gonna give it a ceremony and I'm gonna

(01:16:42):
be all right, cool, I've done that, and now I
got to move on with the with the with the
rest of my life, because you can't carry that cross forever.
Fuck lest somebody else I've done old. I kick down
all the doors that can kick and there's only so
many times you can do that. And I don't know,
but I wish I could crack the code and become
a fucking millionaire.

Speaker 1 (01:17:00):
But I will tell you this. Also, I think I've
also had my ego too much.

Speaker 3 (01:17:04):
In a way that I've missed out on opportunities where
where there was opportunities.

Speaker 1 (01:17:09):
But damn, I don't know. Dude, no good. I'm here
to talk to you. I'm not here to hear myself.
Go ahead. Oh.

Speaker 2 (01:17:19):
I was just like, yeah, that's that's things I'm gonna say.

Speaker 3 (01:17:27):
But I mean, no matter what happens, even if you
got to take a break from from music, I don't know.
I'm not siding with anybody. So if anybody else is
listening to this, I'm not siding with anybody.

Speaker 1 (01:17:36):
I'm just I'm listening talking conversing.

Speaker 3 (01:17:41):
Because I think that a lot of times as artists,
we we think too much with with their with their emotions,
and I think that's why a lot of times artists
starve right because we think too much with our emotions
and we don't think enough with the logical. The logical

(01:18:05):
part of our brain that says, Okay, I'm gonna make
some music, but I'm also gonna secure it. I'm going
to create a publishing company. So that's maybe sometime done
in the future. I can't or do not want to
make music anymore. Maybe I've worked my ass off and
my music is getting played wherever the fuck is getting

(01:18:25):
played at.

Speaker 1 (01:18:26):
Sorry I'm burping, and I'm I just.

Speaker 3 (01:18:30):
Want to sit back one of these days and collect
royalties off my music. So I'm going to create a
publishing company and I'm going to create a trust, and
that way I can pass down the money the revenue
that I make from.

Speaker 1 (01:18:45):
From all of this.

Speaker 3 (01:18:45):
We're hard work that I put into it. Or even
in the situation that you're in, you were in a band,
you formed the band, people have come and gone from
the band, and maybe that's one of the things there
is that people aren't feeling appreciated financially, like you know,
because I know that money is one.

Speaker 1 (01:19:01):
Of the biggest things people said. People, we've been taught
this lie.

Speaker 3 (01:19:04):
That money is evil. Money's not fucking evil, Money's fucking awesome.
Money is great, right, And and uh, I'm no, I'm
no Christian, I'm not a Muslim. I'm not anything, right,
I'm just some guy who tries to study all this stuff.
But I know that when people tell me all my
life that money is evil, you know, and and as
natives especially, we're always told like a white man's wanting

(01:19:27):
to billigan, Sana Biligan, all that bullshit, right, all this
all this subtle racist bullshit that we're taught. And there's
nothing wrong with money. I fucking love money. But that
has everything to do with cracking the code. That has
everything to do with Ray being frustrated because money, money,

(01:19:52):
I think, is the root of probably what what you
guys are going through. Because if if we're financially set,
we're not gonna be as stressed out as we as
we probably are. So guys in the band who want
to leave and go this other way and have other
opportunities probably would say, you know what, I'll stick around

(01:20:14):
more if if if I get paid more, you know,
something like that, right, And that's how we all are
at a job because you're running a business. There's guys
in the company what's called ray geeren that company is
either gonna make money or gonna bleed money. It's gonna
hemorrhage money or it's gonna make money, right, And so
I would say to anybody listening, that's your your band,

(01:20:37):
is your business. Metallica. It's a fucking I know it's
an old guys go to to talk about Metallica, but
the that band, that's a company, that's a business.

Speaker 1 (01:20:48):
Those motherfuckers have figured.

Speaker 3 (01:20:49):
Out somehow either surrounding themselves with the right people that
are motivated, or or they themselves have done something.

Speaker 1 (01:20:57):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:20:57):
I've been trying to figure this out for for decades.
But their logo is all they gotta do is have
one of those swishes, right. You can anybody, somebody can
take a magic marker and squish it on and instantly
you can be like, oh, that's Metallica. There's only several
band logos like that company logos.

Speaker 1 (01:21:17):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:21:17):
You can see Mercedes, you can see Apple, like, there's
only a handful of them in the world.

Speaker 1 (01:21:22):
Metallica is one of them.

Speaker 3 (01:21:23):
Most bands, especially like if you go to death metal
or anything like that, it looks like somebody fucking just
I don't know, fucking threw up on the floor and
said that's my logo. It's most death metal logos look
like shit Hey, if I can't read it, you're you're
fucking killing me as a as a customer, right And
I think that I think that maybe this might be

(01:21:46):
a good time. I don't know what you guys have
done in regards to creating a publishing company and and
monetizing your your your your music, like actually monetizing it
through a publishing company.

Speaker 1 (01:21:58):
Have you guys have you guys do you guys have
a publishing company?

Speaker 2 (01:22:03):
Uh? Reagan, No, Well, obviously I'm not in the band,
but I don't know what they've been up here in
the past years.

Speaker 3 (01:22:10):
So but I can't so all this time, this whole
time that you've been doing music, you don't have a
publishing company.

Speaker 1 (01:22:16):
You don't have anything to set up.

Speaker 2 (01:22:19):
No, we really done. That is kind of like just
jam in and playing show. That's about it.

Speaker 1 (01:22:24):
I think that's just my advice.

Speaker 3 (01:22:26):
I think this would be a point in time where,
since you're stepping away from things and and you're trying
to reorganize, I wouldn't even focus on the music right now.

Speaker 1 (01:22:35):
I would just say, you know what, that music is
going to come back to me.

Speaker 3 (01:22:38):
It's it's always gonna come back because it's part of
our lives right, Hidding a string on the guitar can
feel like like life to some some person. Another person
can touch that string and just be like, h it's
a weird metal that's I don't know, you know what
I mean. I love the guitar, I love music, I
love singing, I love playing ship and and I do
it all the time. And so I would recommend that

(01:23:00):
you take this time and one, obviously we gotta pray
right and two think about like pray about creating a
publishing company. I would definitely create a publishing company if
I was you, and then go back and then be
able to sit down with these guys and say, look,
we don't have to play together, but we should do the.

Speaker 1 (01:23:21):
Legal thing properly.

Speaker 3 (01:23:23):
That way, we start getting paid from the music that
we busted our ass working for, because no matter what
how we feel about each other or who we're jamming
with next, we're still here and our music is still
out there.

Speaker 1 (01:23:35):
So let's let's take care of this. And I think
that would be a real smart move on you guys,
on your behalf to to do something like that.

Speaker 3 (01:23:42):
But I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:23:44):
I'm just some guy who hasn't cracked the code. So
I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about.

Speaker 2 (01:23:50):
Yeah, yeah, I mean don Jerry only Fin the Missus
cracked that code as well, because he went like when
they played here in Wonder Rock like this, like I
don't want to call him I grannie. I say a
panhandler he like bought his panhandler did like a grocery,
grocery basketball food and it was like nothing to him.

(01:24:12):
He'd like, yeah, you know, that's that's that's what a rand.
And you know when you're talking about, you know, having money.

Speaker 1 (01:24:22):
Yeah, and that and that's the thing we we should.
We should.

Speaker 3 (01:24:25):
We should yearn for money. We should we should pray
for the money. We should strive, we should fucking focus
on the money. We should be able to We should
want to be able to wake up and feel like
what I'm doing today has value, has value to me,
and somebody else has it has value to somebody else.
So now I need to see how I can get
them to pay for it, right, and if somebody doesn't

(01:24:46):
want to pay for it, which I know in this
day and age, just fucking nobody wants to pay for ship.

Speaker 1 (01:24:51):
But you know, we have to try to figure that out.

Speaker 3 (01:24:54):
And I'm telling you if you can figure out some
way to to move something forward, or if you want
to put some something together, I'm always here. I'm always
open to doing shit because I would still love to
abolish the Bureau of Indian Interfairs and creep businesses all
over the Navajorez. I want to see my people rich.
I want to see them fed, I want to see
them happy. I would I would love to see native

(01:25:18):
people the increase in the population. I would love for
us to be less dependent on the government and to
be able to say, you know what, there's so many
fucking potholes. That's okay, you know what. You know what
we're gonna do. We're gonna fucking pay for this our sales,
fuck the government, and we're gonna get it done. So
instead of waiting years for this to get done, we're
gonna get it done this month sometime, you know what

(01:25:40):
I mean. And that's the power of money. We got
off the rails here. But I know that that the
music businesses is supremely important. But I want to catch
up with you again one of these days and maybe
we can have a conversation that doesn't even have nothing
to do with all of it.

Speaker 1 (01:26:00):
Is I'm glad that that you got to to get
stuff off your chest.

Speaker 3 (01:26:05):
And I don't know, just stay in contact and and
maybe next time we'll just fucking talk conspiracy theories or
some bullshit.

Speaker 2 (01:26:15):
Yeah yeah, well, no time time flu. I don't even
know how long. I don't even know how long we've
been on the phone.

Speaker 1 (01:26:22):
But that's what happens. We have a good when you
have a good conversation. Yeah, by quick, very all right.

Speaker 3 (01:26:35):
I mean, if there's anything else you want to get
off your chest, like, that's what we're here for, right,
I mean, I just yeah, And I hope you get
to to get making music similar music pretty soon because
fucking dude, you.

Speaker 1 (01:26:47):
Have a badass voice.

Speaker 3 (01:26:48):
And I I personally, I don't think that you're the
problem with whatever. I actually think it goes back down
to the dollar bill.

Speaker 1 (01:26:55):
But that's just me.

Speaker 3 (01:26:56):
I don't know nothing about what's going on with the
band other than what I've heard, but I can I
can say this, most of my problems in life have
been caused because of a dollar.

Speaker 1 (01:27:03):
Bill or the lack thereof, or or you know, the ego,
because of your ego getting in their way. So those
two things right there are the biggest things. I think
there are stumbling that that cause us to stumble.

Speaker 2 (01:27:18):
So yeah, yeah, well they all figure it out someday.
I don't know, could it could be maybe not, you know,
you know, yeah, I just I just want to focus on,
you know, working by myself and personal issues and personal

(01:27:39):
goals and they get we're starting to get back out
of there because I want to. I want to be
back who I was like ten years ago mentally. Yeah,
I just I feel like I've taken a beating wi.

Speaker 1 (01:27:58):
Yeah, yeah, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:28:02):
That's just me though, that's that's just me. I don't
know money is the issue, but I feel like I
don't like it. Maybe we'll figure it out later on
down the road, who knows what it is, but right
now it's just you know, I mean, I don't really
enough that there should be a leader sort of.

Speaker 1 (01:28:24):
What to do.

Speaker 2 (01:28:25):
But that is you know, it was fun. That was good.
Uh yeah, And I just remembered something. Uh I was
talking I was talking to her and this is a

(01:28:47):
while back. You related you related to uh bass player
to Mami Milkiers, aren't you. Oh yeah yeah, it was
like because they were last name. I was like, I know, good, Yeah,
I was like your uncle. She was like, yeah, okay,

(01:29:10):
makes sense.

Speaker 1 (01:29:11):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (01:29:12):
See yuh Macara, you're talking about Makara Karen from Mommy Milkers.

Speaker 2 (01:29:18):
Yeah, yeah, because.

Speaker 1 (01:29:21):
I was later.

Speaker 2 (01:29:25):
Yeah, we worked some way back then. Yeah, all right.

Speaker 3 (01:29:29):
I we we don't have very much of a good
relationship anymore either. We used to be super close. Oh
that's my little buddy, like you know, like there, I
have pictures of her when she was just a little, tiny,
tiny little chimpanzee. And I put my guitar in her hand,
this big old hollow body, and and she was just

(01:29:52):
so massive like this, she's so tiny she's holding it.
And I remember over the years we would I would
teacher how to sing, like how to how to carry
her voice and like how to project the voice, because
I would tell her like, well, there's a there's a
difference between yelling and and projecting your voice and uh.
And so I would tell her like they just pretend

(01:30:13):
like when she was a little kid, right, just pretend
there's little mouse in the ceiling way in the corner,
and you need to you don't want to scare the mouse,
but you want to you want to sing to the mouse. Right,
And so I would go through these these uh these
vocal techniques that I just made up for myself. And
and uh so I would do these things where I'm
because you gotta warm up your throat, right, and because

(01:30:34):
I'm a vocalist.

Speaker 1 (01:30:35):
You're a vocalist.

Speaker 3 (01:30:36):
And if you don't warm up your throat, your your
you're that's just gonna hurt, right, and ye dude, and
it lasts sometimes for days when when you write. So
I would I would teach her about how to project
her voice, how to use her diaphragm, like when you
hold in your air and things like that, right, and

(01:30:56):
then also like using her hands, because they said sometimes
using your hands it doesn't it doesn't do anything for
your singing, but it's it's more of a mental thing
where you like, if you move your hands around or
even your body right, then it helps you mentally to
to curate the sound that's coming out of your out
of your body.

Speaker 1 (01:31:13):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:31:14):
And so we would we would do singing lessons and
then uh playing guitar. I remember teaching her playing guitar.
I murder we better real cute little guitar, a little
like a Barbie or something on it, real cheap little
guitar from Walmart, but she would jam on it and
now a teacher like the three chords junk. And then

(01:31:36):
she said, I don't, I don't want to play this anymore.
I want to play the one you have, the bigger guitar.
And so I would, Yeah, and I would, and so
that one had, so I would play that with her,
and I'll teach you abou muffling her hand, you know,
the palm muting and stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:31:54):
And so you can.

Speaker 3 (01:31:55):
You can make all kinds of music, just these three
simple chords, right these and and sure enough years later
she uh has a band.

Speaker 1 (01:32:06):
She's a badass musician. Woo about it than me. I'm
a three chord guy, right and and she I've seen
her perform down here at.

Speaker 3 (01:32:17):
Uh lock Street, and damn she has great uh stage
presence for somebody who's brand new doing this.

Speaker 1 (01:32:25):
She interacts with the crowd. I love it.

Speaker 3 (01:32:28):
I don't care for the logo. I don't like that logo,
the fat chick with the you know, the whole logo
thing there, don't.

Speaker 1 (01:32:34):
I don't care for that. It just it just looks
ridiculous to me. And yeah, I just don't care for it.

Speaker 3 (01:32:41):
Yeah, but hey, it's not it's not my band.

Speaker 2 (01:32:46):
Yeah, yeah, I only I only seen them. Mind, I mean,
I've seen him one time. I've seen him multiple times,
but the last time I seen him was the last
time I seen him. I really, I really really seem
to get after that. I only seen him like last time.
I was like, almost just over two years ago, because

(01:33:08):
you guys, oh the least why I've seen him after that,
I was like, okay, so yeah, I don't even know
where they are these they haven't seen anything new or
or anything.

Speaker 1 (01:33:21):
Yeah, neither neither of Ice.

Speaker 2 (01:33:24):
H Oh what happened there?

Speaker 1 (01:33:51):
They just cut out.

Speaker 2 (01:33:52):
I was like, oh, okay, but yeah, yeah, that's I
don't know. I just brought the well. I just remember.
I randomly remember that because I asked her about time.
I was like, are you related to you? She was
like yeah, yeah, okay, that's bestball.

Speaker 3 (01:34:09):
Yeah, I'm super proud of her. It's it's weird how
like people in the music scene, like especially like the
red metal scene, like there's always somebody related to somebody
else or someone who knows somebody like I didn't know,
like I know, you know Rippy right from Sacred and

(01:34:31):
I didn't know I didn't know Rippy was related to
the Cillyettes. And I remember my wife, she's so she's
a teacher, and I remember her coming back one day saying, hey,
I got some students in my class that are these
girls that are in a band called the Cillyettes.

Speaker 1 (01:34:48):
And I was like, Sillyettes.

Speaker 3 (01:34:51):
And I remember listening to their music and I was like, oh,
that's sounds so cute, Like they just sound really cute.
And he was telling me that they that they u
they created a doom death metal band, and I was like, wow,
that's sway different than.

Speaker 2 (01:35:10):
Yeah, dude, I just uh. I just had lunch with
him a couple of weeks ago, Brian Rippy and his girls.
It was Brian's son's birthday and we all met up
at a place in Galt and we just hung out
and talked for like a long time.

Speaker 3 (01:35:23):
And yeah, and uh.

Speaker 2 (01:35:27):
That you said the whole doom metal thing, because I
was like, I was like, yeah, man, you know those
long nights, you know, those long drives home from a show,
Ruben would play like doom metal or sludge metal or
whatever they call it. It's like really slow. It was
like this the most boring thing to listen to it.
I was like, I was just like kind of ragging
on it, and then like he was like, oh yeah,

(01:35:47):
my daughters are starting doom metal thing. I was like, god, dang,
I know, like that's just my opinion, because I was like,
he does listen to it, that's you. You know, I'm
personally I'm going to.

Speaker 1 (01:36:01):
I like I like some I like some doom, sludge death.

Speaker 3 (01:36:05):
You know, it just depends, but there's not much variance
that you'd have in slum and death, slum sludge and
doom and you know that kind of stuff, because it's
basically it's basically this, that's basically and you might put

(01:36:28):
some harmonics behind it.

Speaker 2 (01:36:29):
Woo why why why?

Speaker 3 (01:36:30):
Why? Why?

Speaker 2 (01:36:30):
Why?

Speaker 3 (01:36:30):
Why? Whoa right? And then like five minutes later, after
all of that shit, you got somebody coming in and
you're like, fuck, I took it long enough. It's kind
of like black metal. I'm not a big fan of
black metal, but there are some some black metal bands
that I'm like, oh, that was pretty cool, but it's
mostly because I've seen their videos.

Speaker 1 (01:36:49):
Like Behemoth.

Speaker 3 (01:36:51):
I think I wasn't really impressed with behemoths music and
until I saw the videos and I was like fuck, yeah,
I'm into this band.

Speaker 1 (01:37:00):
Ghost.

Speaker 3 (01:37:01):
I saw Ghost's imagery and I thought, that's gotta be
a band I'm gonna be into. And then I played
their music and I was like, Nope, that's not for me.
It just sounds stupid. It just sounds stupid. But I
love I love their whole their whole marketing thing, and
that's I wish.

Speaker 1 (01:37:19):
I want more of that. And in the res medal scene,
I want more imagery.

Speaker 3 (01:37:23):
I'm tired of seeing people who look like they just
came from chopping wood and they jumped on stage to
to to play, to play some music. I'm tired of
seeing jeans regular like regular ship. If you're gonna wear jeans, great,
But I want to see more. I want, I want,
I want. That's one thing our scene is missing, not
even our scenes, it's not even my scene, but the
dust scene is missing. Is is imagery ship that makes

(01:37:47):
you dream, ship that makes you want to say, I
want to put that fucking band on my wall.

Speaker 2 (01:37:52):
See, that's that's I don't I don't know if you
notice that. That's what we were going for way back
in the day, like five cellars. Yeah, that's what we
were going for. That's where like, we gotta have everything, man,
we gotta differentiate ourselves. We gotta have we gotta paint
our faces, we gotta wear these like like like Skelton
hand gloves, we gotta have fog machine strove like fla

(01:38:16):
everything everything. And we did for a while. We got
a little following because of that, but but it was
at the time it was just meet Jeff Levi and
Levi's uncle and all that. It just it just got
too much to just like you know, setting up all
that and then setting up our equipment and taking it
all down, and and like the makeup, it was just

(01:38:39):
getting messy and like fake blood everywhere or.

Speaker 1 (01:38:43):
Oh the makeup.

Speaker 3 (01:38:43):
I think the makeup is always ridiculous. I don't care
who the fuck where is it? I don't care. I mean,
I think kiss is the only people that I kissed,
and maybe Alison Chains I'm going to ask him change
Alice Cooper, and.

Speaker 1 (01:38:57):
Maybe maybe King Diamond.

Speaker 3 (01:39:01):
But even his it's only because he has the whole
wardrobe to go with it, you know what I mean.
But good Missmits, Yeah, yeah, but I mean, but that
also was just a very limited time thing, like even
with the Misfits.

Speaker 2 (01:39:15):
So you're talking about like Twisted Sister or something.

Speaker 3 (01:39:18):
Oh, Twisted Sisters just always retarded looking. I just I
did not know that they were fucking men when I
first heard them. I've always loved Twisted Sister, but the
first time I heard him, I was like, these ladies
look like clowns and they look big.

Speaker 1 (01:39:34):
And I come find out years later. D Snyder's like
an eight foot tall giant.

Speaker 3 (01:39:38):
He's a man.

Speaker 1 (01:39:39):
That's a man.

Speaker 3 (01:39:41):
I had no fucking idea, But the dude's one of
my favorite vocalist of all time because he just has
like this cool, unusual You hear D Snyder's voice or
his vocals, and I think it's that big Jewish nose.
That big Jewish nose, I think is what helps him
his sound different differentiate. And and that's the thing I
like about people's flaws. People can say, oh, this guy
looks this way, he sounds that ways. But look at

(01:40:03):
Corey Taylor. Big fucking neck. That big fucking neck would
look ridiculous in everyday life, but but you know his
singing and you're like, oh, yeah, the neck, right, It's
the fucking neck. That's how he gets those fucking those ranges.
Because because I've I've practiced singing some of Corey Taylor's
stuff and like that, like like his like his singing
stuff right and the like stop from Stone Sour, and

(01:40:27):
the dude is a fucking phenomenal singer.

Speaker 1 (01:40:30):
I think I'm pretty good, but but the range she
has and the way he can pull stuff off that
just is is flawless and it's so hard to do.

Speaker 3 (01:40:40):
I've blown out my my my throat before doing trying
to get some of the ranges that he has, and
like two three days, I'm walking around just because he's
so good at it. Yeah, yeah, but maybe that's your thing.
But maybe that's your thing right there. Maybe maybe you
said you wanted to tap into the mentality that you

(01:41:01):
had like ten years ago, and maybe that's part of
the thing, right they're experimenting. Maybe you don't have to
do the makeup, maybe you don't have to do all
that kind of shit.

Speaker 1 (01:41:10):
But maybe I just.

Speaker 2 (01:41:13):
Like, I know, I don't want to dude, Like I
mean like like you like like like you said in
the interview with Bryant, like it looks like a person
that's in a band, you know, not like not like
I just got back from hauling waters. Yeah you know,
I've always thought about that too, because that goes back
to what I told you earlier about our friends feel

(01:41:35):
like teaching us how to present ourselves age and how
to you know that stuff. You know, he would, you know,
I'm grateful that that. I'm not trying to sound any
kind of way towards anybody, but like, I'm so glad
that we started out with a white boy, you know,
because he has a little more little a lot more ideas,
and he taught us how to do things. You know.

(01:41:57):
That probably sounds a little wrongs than people that are
probably gonna list this, but it's true, you know, like
like I don't know, like negatives are just negative, good bite.
I'm just I'm just happy about white dude, Like it
showed me where to go.

Speaker 1 (01:42:14):
I guess, no, no, I totally get. I totally get
what you're saying. I get what you're saying because the.

Speaker 3 (01:42:21):
The men, if somebody comes from outside, right and they
they have a different perspective, they have the view from outside.
But if you only talk to people in your echo chamber,
right the res, then people from the reds are only
gonna want res type things, and those red type of
things may or may not have worked in the past,
and so you keep going to circles and then somebody

(01:42:43):
comes from outside with a different point of view. It's
gonna repel some people, but it's gonna attract other people.
And so that's what you're talking about. You're talking about
you you saw something, heard something from this guy, and
you didn't look at it in a in a really
fucked up manner because it's practiced you no homo, but
just attracted you in this in the sense of like magnetism.

(01:43:04):
And so from that you took that and you and
you start running with it, and it did something for you, guys.
You guys are it launched you guys on the path
that you're on. And now you're here, and.

Speaker 1 (01:43:15):
It's how long you get? How long? How long ago
did five cellars start?

Speaker 2 (01:43:23):
I wouldn't think, well, we wouldn't just say five sellers
is mainly just me jeffinitely by me, definite LYVI have
been playing some together since U two thousand and four.

Speaker 1 (01:43:36):
Okay, so that's what eighteen years eighteen seventeen years.

Speaker 2 (01:43:42):
Uh more or less? I mean, we took a really
long break because I want to see when we broke up.

Speaker 1 (01:43:48):
Oh wait, no, my math, My math is all fucked up.
Sorry about that.

Speaker 3 (01:43:51):
Everybody listening right now is like this, dude, cannot fucking
count that's twenty years ago, because it's I mean, because
it's twenty twenty four right now.

Speaker 1 (01:44:00):
I've been a wrong year.

Speaker 2 (01:44:01):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, it's kind of scary that
it's been that long, you know. Yeah, but you know
we're veterans and out of the RESI music team, so
it's kind of scary. Oh no, yeah, we yeah, I
mean Jeff Levi have been playing playing since then under
various names, and we stopped probably about twenty sixteen, and

(01:44:26):
we we all well know Jeff Lef focused on Now
or Never their band, and I was all riggering, and
we didn't get back together until last year, about a
year ago more or less, probably only say February last year,
and we took it really really slow.

Speaker 1 (01:44:43):
And.

Speaker 2 (01:44:45):
We've only played like three shows since about I want
to say, it's hard for me to keep track of shows.
I get it. I don't know, Like, we opened up
for like Traps. I don't know if you remember them,
oh t R A P T Right yeah yeah, Headstrong

(01:45:08):
yeah yeah yeah, yeah yeah, we opened up for them
and Uh, some of the bands, some way less known bands.

Speaker 1 (01:45:18):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:45:19):
Yeah, we've played less than We've probably played about six
shows so far. That's about it. Where you know, we're
not we're not pushing it hard enough and yeah, I
don't know, I don't know. We're just taking all. That's all.
I can think. There's a lot that goes on that,
but we're just taking as well.

Speaker 1 (01:45:36):
Well.

Speaker 3 (01:45:36):
Cool, if you want to come down with these days
and just jam out at my at my pad over
here my Cata in Farmington, hit me up.

Speaker 1 (01:45:43):
Let me know.

Speaker 3 (01:45:43):
I'm always looking to jam out. I actually been wanting
to find somebody to jam with and remake some of
the older music. I have like turning some of my
old music because I have a ton of music and
I've been wanted to like turn it from what I
have it, which I created mostly with loops and beats
and whatever, or or if I have if I didn't

(01:46:05):
get it from loops and beats, I either played it
on the guitar or something, you know, banged something or
made some sounds or some ship. But I would like
to like remake a lot of my music, and because
I got some really cool music and I'm like, dang,
that would sound cool as a as a metal jam. Oh,
that would sound cool as a metal jam, because like
some of my hip hop stuff and then even some
of my metal stuff, I'm like, I really wish I

(01:46:26):
could redo that with a live.

Speaker 1 (01:46:28):
Band, because I got some Like I got some cool, cool.

Speaker 3 (01:46:31):
Jams that I find I find that I want a
jam on, but I would love to have them fine tuned.
There's like, like a s O. D.

Speaker 1 (01:46:40):
Has always been like one of my my favorite bands
of all time.

Speaker 3 (01:46:45):
And so when I was making when I was making
The Reservation, I made this album called Reservation Overthrow and
as a sheep holding a gun and uh yeah, and
so the have some songs on there, and I just
wanted them simple and stuff you can mosh to, right,
and so like there's a song called and Yet, Oh

(01:47:07):
my Motherfucker and you and it's it's it's made with
the intent of like washing like you know, like a
circle pitmash and like having people just chant.

Speaker 1 (01:47:17):
And like that, like just like just marsh music.

Speaker 3 (01:47:20):
Like because sometimes music people, I'm guilty of it. I
think too much about what I'm making the lyrics.

Speaker 1 (01:47:27):
What do I mean, what am I saying?

Speaker 6 (01:47:29):
What can message am I conveying, and sometimes I just
want to fucking say, fuck it, let's crack open the
cannonbeer and get fucked up, hang out by the windmill,
you know, just have fun, Just have fun music, the
kind the kind I remember listening to when I was young,
and I just want to go wild out right.

Speaker 2 (01:47:46):
Yeah, yeah, dude, heard them and fresh song? Have you
heard that?

Speaker 1 (01:47:54):
No, dude, can you can? You? Can? You upload it
to native entertainment? This is the whole point of native
Entertainment's a good thing. You brought that up. It's so
fucking hard to hear it. I can try, Yeah, I'll try.

Speaker 2 (01:48:06):
I was had the screen report to do that because
I don't I don't have that footage. I'm sure whoever
it is will mind.

Speaker 1 (01:48:16):
Yeah, this is right there.

Speaker 3 (01:48:18):
That's the importance of having a publishing company, because if
you have a publishing company, then you you you each
own the rights of it, and you can be able
to say, and I wanna I want to get this
uploaded to hear right, because yeah, at that point everybody
benefits from it, right, So yeah, I upload that ship man,
I want to hear it.

Speaker 1 (01:48:35):
Were you singing on it? You were singing thrash.

Speaker 2 (01:48:38):
Yeah, I was just doing my normal voice. No, that's
what Metalica did back then, So yeah, why not you
dave that Joey Beldana, Well, no.

Speaker 3 (01:48:54):
Don't, don't talk about Anthrax, dude, the fucking I don't
know how they pull that ship off with Joey's voice.
Joey's a badass singer, but the music was always way
heavier than his voice. But somehow they fucking made magic happen.
I'm I'm a huge Anthrax man, and I fucking love
the way. I don't like any of the other singers
that came into Anthrax, don't care for them, but I

(01:49:15):
want Joey Billadonna because Anthrax is not Anthrax without Joey Biladonna.
The guy just knows how to fucking sing. And I
don't know how he fucking mixed his voice with it,
because I don't know. It baffles me and my son
is like a stupid comment to say, but like it,
just I don't those two don't mix, but they mix perfectly.

Speaker 2 (01:49:36):
Yeady's Yeah, that's it's a pretty good song. And uh,
I don't I guess you know the guys still playing
through the day. I guess it's it's a permanent part
of the set list. I think. Yeah, it was crazy.

Speaker 3 (01:49:58):
Hey, if you want to make some more flukes, I'm here.
I want to join up, all right, brother, but I'm
gonna let you go.

Speaker 2 (01:50:05):
Yeah it's tire peerader Man.

Speaker 1 (01:50:06):
You take care, you too, going to