Rick Warren - What It Really Means to Be a Disciple of Jesus - Part 2

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Have you ever heard anybody say this. You know, I
love Jesus, I just don't like the church. I love Jesus,
I just can't stand the church. Then let me tell
you something. You're not a disciple because with all of
its imperfections, all of its faults, all of its faux
paus and failures, because it's made up of normal, ordinary,
imperfect people, Jesus says, the church matters. Christ died for

(00:26):
the Church. In fact, it's the only thing that's going
to last on this planet. Microsoft isn't going to last.
The Democratic and Republican parties aren't going to last. The
United States of America isn't going to last. No empire
lasts forever. There's only one thing that's going to last
for eternity. That is God's family. The Church. You're in it.
It's the only thing that's going to last. It's more

(00:46):
important than everything else put together, because God created the
universe because he wanted a family. And so if you
don't love the church, you're not going to like heaven
because that's all who's going to be there. So you
better figure out how to learn to love other disciples. Now,
Jesus died for the church. The Bible calls the church

(01:07):
the bride of Christ. How about if I said to you,
I like you, I just can't stand your wife, You'd
be You'd be irritated, you'd be offended. You'd have a
right to be. Or the Bible says, the church is
the body of Christ. If I said I like you,
but your body's not too hot, well, you'd be offended.
When you say I don't like the Church, you're saying

(01:28):
I don't like the body of Christ that Jesus died for. Now.
This is absolutely ridiculous. People think that they can follow
Christ and not love the Church. They're wrong. In fact,
here's what Jesus what the Bible says. First John chapter four.
Someone says I love God but hates a Christian brother

(01:51):
or sister. That person is a liar. That's pretty clear.
God says, I'm a liar if I say I love
God and don't other Christians. For if we don't love
people we can see, how can we love God when
we have not seen? Well? Duh? He says, this is obvious,

(02:13):
and so to be my disciple, you must love other
people in the family of God. This is called fellowship.
I want you to write this down. Spiritual growth happens
in community. It doesn't happen on your own. It doesn't.
You cannot be a disciple by yourself. You cannot be
a disciple in isolation. You cannot follow Christ as an individual.

(02:36):
Me and Jesus we got a good thing going. We
don't need anybody else. We can attain maturity on your own. No,
you will never grow to spiritual maturity without a church family.
The Bible teaches that. In fact, notice that verse he says,
if you have love for one another, circle the phrase
one another. That phrase is used fifty eight times in

(02:58):
the Bible. We are to love one another, care for
one another, help one another, serve one another, encourage one another,
pray for one another. We are to support one another,
where to greet one another. We are to encourage one another.
The Bible says, we were put on this planet to
help each other out in the family of God. And

(03:19):
you have to have a Christian church family and be
in relationship with people because life is all about love. Now,
you may be listening to ten radio preachers a day,
and there are a lot of good ones out there.
Some of them are my friends actually. But if you're
listening to all those guys, you're not growing. You're getting
more knowledge, but you're not growing. Because life is all

(03:41):
about love. It's all about love. It's learning to love
God and learning to love your neighbors, yourself. Life is
all about learning to love God. This is what makes
it different. What makes having a relationship with Jesus different
than religion, that every single religion. The more you isolate

(04:04):
yourself from humanity, the more holy you're considered to be,
whether it's Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, or anything else. The holiest
people are those who go off into the monks and
the monasteries, or the gurus who hide in the caves
in the mountain, who separate themselves from sinful humanity so
they can't become impure by all of us who are evil, wicked, mean,

(04:28):
bad and nasty. And so the more holy you are,
the more you separate yourself from earth and from other people.
That is the exact opposite of what Jesus taught. Jesus
didn't do that. Jesus was in the marketplace, Jesus went
to the parties. Jesus was at the wedding, turning water

(04:48):
to wine. In fact, Jesus went to so many parties.
The legalistic religious leaders of the day said he is
a quote glutton and a drunk. Today they would say, hey,
Jesus is a party animal. That's what they'd say, because
Jesus taught you can't learn to love unless you're around people. Now,

(05:11):
you could go and hide in a monastery and read
prayer books all day, and you could quote scripture, and
you can pray, and you can study till your brain
is so packed with theology, but you're not spiritually mature.
Because Jesus said, it's all about love, loving God and
loving your neighbor, and you can't do that unless you
get around some unlovely people. I don't look at him

(05:34):
right now, but God says, I measure maturity by how
much you love, not by knowledge, but how much you love.
And this is called radical fellowship. And Jesus expects us
to have a very radical kind of love, more than
the world. In fact, look at the next verse one

(05:56):
John three point sixteen. This is how we know what
love is, what real love is. Jesus Christ laid down
his life for us, and we ought to lay down
our lives for the brothers. Talking about brothers and sisters
in the family of God, other Christians. Jesus laid down
his life for us, and God says, I measure your

(06:17):
love by how much you're willing to sacrifice for other Christians,
for other believers, for other people in the family. This
is radical fellowship. The word in Greek is the word
koynania fellowship, and fellowship is being as committed to each
other as we are to Jesus Christ. That's what it
means to be a disciple. Not that, Oh I love
God and I couldn't care less about the church. No.

(06:39):
God says, if you love me, you love my family.
I tell you that. I say, you can't love me
and not love my family because my family represents me,
and we only grow in community being as committed to
each other as we are to Jesus. This is why
being in a small group is absolutely essential to your
spiritual growth. Number four, Jesus says, if I want to

(07:02):
be a disciple, I must always do what Jesus tells me.
That's the mark of a disciple. I must always do
what Jesus tells me. It may not make sense, it
may not be popular, it may cost me something, but
it's always the right thing because God's not going to
steal you in the wrong direction. God tells you to

(07:24):
do something, it's always the right thing to do. And
he's saying that one of the marks of discipleship is
I must obey him continually. I must always do what
he tells me to do. John chapter eight. Let's read
this verse aloud together. Okay, if you continue to obey
my teaching, you are truly my disciples, then you will

(07:46):
know the truth, and the truth will set you free.
Now everybody in America knows this phrase, the truth will
set you free. Most Americans don't know the first part
of the verse. He says, if you continue to obey
my teaching, then you're truly my disciple. And I notice he's
saying here three or four things about spiritual growth that

(08:08):
are very important. You might write these down. The first
thing I want you to notice is spiritual growth is
an ongoing process. It is an ongoing process. It's going
to take the rest of your life. And that's why
you got your whole life to grow up spiritually. But
you're never going to stop learning, he says. If you
continue circle the word continue. He says, it's a process,

(08:33):
it's ongoing. Spiritual growth is not well, I go to
class and then now I'm spiritually mature. No, it's a process,
it's a development, it's incremental, it's gradual, and it's going
to take the rest of your life. The rest of
your life if we go through a step by step
process and it's one step at a time. You know.

(08:54):
I learned this growing up. My dad was a pastor,
and so I knew my dad. He was a great teacher.
But I noticed that people could go to church for
twenty years or thirty years, of forty years and still
be spiritually immature. And I thought, how can that be?
I mean, they're hearing all this good teaching, and yet

(09:15):
they're not growing up. They're still cranky, they're still self centered,
there's still gossips, they're still resentful and bitter, and they
worry and they feel guilty and they're insecure, and they
still got all their hang ups and they don't seem
to be growing up and spiritually maturing. Why is that?
And the reason why is because we forget what we learn.

(09:38):
Studies have shown over and over the first one was
the US Air Force that discovered is we forget ninety
to ninety five percent of everything we hear within seventy
two hours, and if you had heard me teach for
thirty years at saddleback, you have forgotten ninety five percent
of it. It takes more than sermons to grow. Sermons

(10:00):
are not enough to grow because we forget, which, by
the way, is why we pass out these little things.
Because the shortest pencil is longer than the longest memory.
And if you take notes, you're at least gonna have
something you can go home and you can review it again.
You see, if you don't take notes, you don't remember
what I taught on last week. Shoot, I don't remember

(10:21):
what I taught on last week, and I taught it
six times. You had to listen to it once, okay,
and I've already forgotten what I taught on. So it's
not like it's not normal. If you don't take notes,
if you don't care enough to learn what God wants
you to learn to write it down, then you're not
going to grow. And at the end of this year,

(10:43):
of all of teaching you'll hear at Saddleback, you'll only
remember maybe five percent of it. And that's why we
don't grow up. So we have to continue. We have
to have ways of remembering it now. The Bible teaches
that it is an ongoing process spiritual growth. Second thing, Notice,
it's measured by obedience. He says, if you continue to

(11:06):
obey my teaching, then your my disciple. It's not based
on how much you know, It's on how much you practice,
how much you obey. There are a lot of people
who know the Bible, but they don't live it. Sometimes
you can meet people who are veritable storehouses of Bible knowledge,
and they can quote Bible verses and they're the most cranky, cantankers,

(11:29):
arguing people, judgmental of every other Christian. Because the Bible
says knowledge puffs up love builds up. The more knowledge
you have, the more arrogant you tend to become if
you don't have love to match it and keep it
in a humble attitude. Knowledge without love leads to arrogance.
So God says, I don't measure your growth by how

(11:50):
much you know. I measure your growth by how much
you love, how much you love others, how much you
love me. And he says, you've got to have it's
how much you obey. In fact, would you write this
sentence down? I only believe the part of the Bible
I do. I only believe the part of the Bible
I actually practice. Now you may say you believe it,

(12:11):
but if you don't do it, you don't really believe it.
Do you believe that you should forgive the people who
hurt you? Yes? Do you do it? No? Then I
don't believe it. Do you believe that you should always
return good for evil? Yes? Do you do it? No?
Then you don't believe it. Do you believe you should tithe? Yes?
Do you do it? No? Then you don't believe it.
You believe you should share your faith with other people? Yes?

(12:33):
Do you do it?

Speaker 2 (12:33):
No?

Speaker 1 (12:34):
Then you don't believe it. You only believe the part
that you actually do.

Speaker 2 (12:46):
Do you want to be happier, healthier, and more resistant
to stress, then you need to develop an attitude of gratitude.
In fact, the Bible says we're to rejoice, always, pray continually,
and give thanks in all circumstances. But it can be
difficult to feel grateful. So to help you, Pastor Rick

(13:08):
hand selected fifty two verses to bolster your sense of
gratitude and increase your happiness. This set of beautifully designed
cards will help you memorize scripture so you can recall
God's word when you need it most.

Speaker 1 (13:23):
You can also use them to minister to others. Give
one to a.

Speaker 2 (13:27):
Friend and write a personalized note of encouragement on the back.
If a scripture really speaks to you, frame it, put
them in places where you can read them during the
day for encouragement. And today, when you give a gift
to help daily hope, take the hope of Jesus to
a world in need, will send you the gratitude scripture

(13:47):
card set to say thanks.

Speaker 1 (13:53):
Now, spiritual growth is an ongoing process. It's measured by obedience.
It's based on God's word. That's the third thing this
verse teaches. If you continue to obey my teaching. Now,
there are a lot of books out there you can
read that are good, and they may be positive, motivational.
They maybe, you know, teach you management skills. But it's

(14:15):
not human ideas. It's going to help you grow spiritually.
It's not philosophy or man's philosophy or pop psychology that's
going to teach you to grow spiritually. It is the truth.
We must feed on the truth. It's soul food. It's
the truth. Now, the fourth thing that verse teaches is
that it sets me free, that spiritual growth sets me free.

(14:35):
The truth will set me free. But what does that
mean set me free? The more you grow spiritually, the
freer you're going to be in life. You're going to
be set free from the expectations of others. You're going
to be set free from past memories that bother you. You're
set free from guilt. You're set free from resentment. You're
set free from bad habits. You're set free from shame.

(15:00):
You're set free from the pressures and stresses that other
people try to put on you. Because the more you
mature spiritually, the freer you are. The more you grow spiritually,
you don't become more religious fanatic, you become more natural.
The glory of God is a human being fully alive.
And the people who are most fully alive in life

(15:22):
are those who love Jesus the most, love other people
the most, and are growing in the Word of God.
The more mature you come, you're free from fear. You're
free from anxiety, You're free from insecurity. The truth sets
you free. Now it doesn't happen overnight. Look at this
verse on the screen. Our lives are gradually becoming brighter.

(15:45):
Notice it's gradually. It's a process, step by step more
and more beautiful as God enters our lives and we
become more like him. That's called radical discipleship, becoming like Jesus.
And that's the third goal of life. To love God,
to love other people, to become like Jesus. That's the
third goal, the third purpose of life. Now, how do

(16:08):
you do that? How do I grow gradually? Well, look
at the next verse. Here's what Jesus says. If you
continue to live in me circle the word continue. It's
an ongoing process. If you continue to live in me,
and what I say lives in you continues in you,

(16:29):
then you can ask anything you want and it'll be yours.
That's quite a promise. In prayer said, if you're living
in me and my words living in you, you can
ask for whatever you want. It'll be yours. You give
glory to my Father when you produce a lot of fruit,
and therefore show that you're my disciples. Now, he says,
you got to continue. It's a process, it's a strategy,

(16:52):
it's a journey. If you're going to continue to grow
the rest of your life, and that's what I'm trying
to help you do. You're going to need a couple
of things. First, you need a plan. You need a
track to run on. You need a pathway. You need
some guidelines, You need a trail, You need a process.
Jesus had a plan for helping his disciples grow from

(17:15):
immaturity to spiritual maturity. And he starts off where they were,
not where they ought to be. He starts off where
they are. He loves them, and he takes them through
each step to grow. Now, when they're growing, he loves
them at every stage. Listen to this. Jesus loves you.
God loves you at every stage of your maturity. He's

(17:36):
not waiting for you to become mature before he starts
loving you. He loves you where you are right now.
When my kids were little, Amy, Josh Matthew, they'd bring
me pictures when they're three, four years old, and I'd
look at that picture and that say, Amy, that picture
is perfect. Now what am I saying that she's better
than Picasso? No, that it's mature. No, I'm saying that's

(17:59):
perfect for that stage of her development. And I'm not
waiting for her to become a great painter before I
start loving her. I love her at every stage of
her growth with my children. And that's the way God
loves you. He's not waiting for you to get mature
before he loves you. He loves you unconditionally right now.
But he does want you to grow, and you need

(18:21):
a pathway. Jesus had a plan, and that pathway was
teaching his disciples first to know him and then to
love him, and then to grow in him, and then
to serve him and then to share him. Now, what
I just shared with you, that one sentence is the
whole philosophy behind Saddleback Church. Everything in this church helps

(18:46):
people move through those five stages, those five purposes. First
to know Christ. Then we want you to want you
to know him. Then you can love him because you
can't love him till you know him. And then you
learn to love his family, and then you start growing
in Christ. And then you start serving Christ, and then
you start sharing Christ. It's like a baby. A baby

(19:08):
has to learn to breathe, then it learns to eat,
then it learns to walk, and then it learns to talk.
We all grow at different stages and greats, but every
one of us went through those exact same physical stages,
and there are spiritual stages in spiritual growth too. And

(19:31):
it's why we have a spiritual mature church because we're
intentional about it. We've fought it through. And where did
we learn it. We learned it from Jesus and we
just copied his plans gradual, systematic, sequential. Now, to help
you visualize this, we use a baseball diamond. If you've
been in class one oh one, you remember the baseball diamond.

(19:52):
And each base represents a different stage of growth. First
base knowing Christ and love in Christ, being committed to
Him and his family. Second base, growing in Christ, third
base serving Christ. Home plate sharing Christ. And we say
we want you to cover all the bases. We want

(20:14):
you to be a Grand Slam disciple. You don't get
credit for runners left on base. Some of you went
to class one oh one. You got stuck at first base.
You need to go to class two oh one second
base and learn the habits for spiritual growth. Then some
of you got stuck at second base. You need to
go to third base and learn how to discover your
shape for serving God. Once you finish third base, you

(20:37):
need to go on to home plate and learn how
to live out your life mission in the world, and
that's what God wants us to do. By the way,
those classes were offering him today. Class one oh one
to four oh one are being offered this afternoon. Now
that's really funny because as we've taught the Saddlebacks purpose
driven system all around the world, four hundred thousand pastors

(20:59):
have been trained in this. It's all around the world.
It's funny because they don't play baseball in a lot
of countries, so they have to have different diagrams. So,
for instance, in Brazil, they don't use a baseball diamond
to represent spiritual growth. They use a soccer field and
you go down the field to the ten yard line,
the twenty yard line or the fifty to forty thirty
t and then you score and you hit a goal

(21:21):
when you've gone around all of the basis. In Russia
they use a ladder step one and step two and
step three. Knowing Christ, loving Christ, sharing Christ, you know,
up the steps. In Australia they don't play baseball, but
they play cricket. And I don't know if you know this,
but they use a diamond there too, but you run
it the opposite way. You run it clockwise, which makes sense.

(21:44):
They do it backwards because they're down under, you know,
so it's it's reversed in what we do in the
northern hemphosphere. And so they use a cricket to represent
the purposes. In China, where there's a lot of religious
persecution from the Communist Party, the Chinese Church owes the
Chinese flag because there's five stars on it to represent
the five purposes of God for our lives. So some

(22:07):
Communist leader comes in says, oh, I see, you're very patriotic. Yeah. Well,
what they're doing is they saying that's the symbol for
the five purposes of the five stars. Now, this idea
that I'm sharing with you, helping people grow systematically is
not new. For two thousand years, churches have been doing this.
It's called a catechism. Anybody heard of that one? You

(22:28):
know what a catechism is, it's then catechism, And just
in Catholic Church, all churches have used catechisms. You learn this,
then you learn this, then you learn this, then you
learn this, and for two thousand years people have been
going through a growing process. You need a pathway to grow,
but there's something else you need, and this is really
important if you're going to continue growing the rest of

(22:50):
your life. If you don't get anything else, I say,
I want you to get this. If you want to grow,
you must develop good habits. Would you write that down?
Spiritual growth is a matter of good habits. Every area
of your life is determined, controlled by the habits, the

(23:12):
difference between successful and unsuccessful people. Successful people have habits
that unsuccessful people are afraid to develop, are too lazy
to develop. And in the Christian life, you are the
sum total of your habits. You see, Character is a
matter of habit. It's something that you do habitually. For instance,
you can't say you have the character quality of honesty

(23:36):
unless it's your habit to always tell the truth. If
you tell the truth seventy percent of the time, you're
not honest. It's not a habit. It's not a character.
You got to be honest. It has to be a
habit in your life. If I say to my wife, honey,
I have the character quality of faithfulness to you, and
I will be faithful to you twenty eight days a month,

(24:00):
well that doesn't work. Partial faithfulness is unfaithfulness, right? Does
that make sense? You're not being faithful at all if
you're faithful ninety percent of the time. No, I'm not
faithful to my wife unless I am one hundred percent
faithful to her all the time. Now that's true in
every area. It's developing good habits. We have a class

(24:23):
called Class two one where we teach the basic habits
of the Christian life. Now, throughout the centuries, for two
thousand years of the church, Christians have used these habits.
Sometimes they're called spiritual disciplines. Sometimes they're called devotional practices.
I don't care what you call them. We call them
habits At saddleback. It's stuff that you learn, like how

(24:47):
to have a daily time with God, a quiet time.
How to pray that's a habit. How to read the Bible,
that's a habit. How to be in a small group fellowship,
that's a habit. How to tithe your money that's a habit.
Habit of solitude, silence, being quiet before God, the habit
of fasting, the habit of journaling. There are hundreds of
good habits. Some are more important than others, but they

(25:09):
are the building blocks for growing the spiritual maturity. And
notice the results of spiritual maturity. It says that when
you have these habits and when you grow and you
do what Jesus tells you to do, it says you
will produce fruit.

Speaker 2 (25:34):
Do you want to be happier, healthier, and more resistant
to stress, then you need to develop an attitude of gratitude.
In fact, the Bible says we're to rejoice, always, pray continually,
and give thanks in all circumstances. But it can be
difficult to feel grateful. So to help you, Pastor Rick

(25:55):
hand selected fifty two verses to bolster your sense of
gratitude and increase your happiness. This set of beautifully designed
cards will help you memorize scripture so you can recall
God's word when you need it most.

Speaker 1 (26:10):
You can also use them to minister to others. Give
one to.

Speaker 2 (26:14):
A friend and write a personalized note of encouragement on
the back. If a scripture really speaks to you, frame it,
put them in places where you can read them during
the day for encouragement. And today, when you give a
gift to help daily hope, take the hope of Jesus
to a world in need, will send you the Gratitude
Scripture card set to say thanks