November 28, 2013 • 27 mins
Embark on a breathtaking adventure with the revamped Liquid Gamer Podcast! In this episode, we glide into the ethereal world of Journey, a game that redefined storytelling through its stunning visuals and emotional depth. Join us as we explore the mysterious deserts, share the magic of wordless multiplayer, and discuss why this indie gem still resonates. Whether you’re a seasoned traveler or new to the sands, this episode is packed with heartfelt insights and awe-inspiring moments.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Have you been.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
I've been good.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
You I'm okay.
Speaker 3 (00:03):
I'm trying honestly. Before he came over, I was looking
for jobs and I'm just not finding anything that I
want to do. You know, I had you know, I
got laid off, right.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Oh yeah, did you?
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Five months ago I got laid off. I had a
job for like a month, and then i had another
job for like a week. And I've had a few interviews,
and a lot of those interviews made me decide not
to go forward. It's just been a really stressful five
months since the layoff. I've had two kickstarters, right, they
(00:42):
got funded, which is great, having some trouble with fulfillment
to the last game because the printing company keeps changing,
like they keep putting back the date. So originally it
was September twenty ninth, now it's like, oh, October thirty first,
and I'm like, what what, I'm having issues there. I
(01:02):
got the new kickstarter that launches next week, my last
one of the year, maybe my last one of all time.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
I don't really know, because you know, I'd like to
get a.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Real job, but in the back of my mind, I
want this to be a million dollar kickstarter and just
continue making games.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
I'm going to stop.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
If I'm going to stop, Okay, it's not I put
a lot of time into this stuff, you know, like
I have. You know, I've been doing draft emails and
like sending out letters and I don't know, but once
the game releases, I I won't talk about it anymore. Okay, Well, no,
(01:42):
the new game, that's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
No, no, there won't be a new one. No no, no,
there won't be another one.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
So next week I'm doing an episode with Owen, and
it's gonna be my Kickstarter story. So that episode comes
out the day of the campaign launches, and that'll be
the last time us they bring it up last time
because it's the last one of the year, maybe of
all time.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
Maybe that's one of the year. But next year is
a maybe. So I will be expecting one next year.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Why don't we move into video games? Why don't you
and me help create a video game? We do a
video game podcast. I'm making card games, but I'm in
my head, I'm Nintendo.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
You know what I mean. I'm doing Nintendo. Yeah, Nintendo started.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Out making card games and then they transition once the
technology became available. I would like to do the same thing.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
My programming skills are not quite what they should be,
so I don't know where you're going to get that from.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
You can outsource. We just need a basic concept. We'll talk, Okay,
if anything, we'll talk on the This Fanday special. Let's
give us something to talk about games that we would
like to create, because.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Can I make Mega Man eleven?
Speaker 3 (03:00):
No, but I can look into licensing for you if
you'd like. But anyway, that's so. Yeah, this week we're
gonna be talking about Journey. Next week is the Kickstarter story,
and then after that we're gonna jump into Tropico because
I've been playing it a lot lately.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
It's easy to play casually.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Then I'd like to do another indie title, kind of
leaning towards Limbo, and then after that I'm gonna do Infamous.
I feel like it's important. We did have somebody on
Facebook recommend Infamous, and I think that's a great idea.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
But today it's Journey and you didn't play it.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
I did not play it.
Speaker 4 (03:40):
I thought I had it on my in my library
from Plus, but I did not.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Apparently, so I need to download it. I need to
play it.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Well, I mean it's only like an hour or two hours.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
Man, I'm well overdue, Like I should have played it
on PS three. I should have played it by now,
But same story.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
So it was prop.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
My second favorite PS three game. Wow, my number one
Indy okay for PS three by far.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
I'm glad you didn't say Flower.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
No.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
No.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Flower is definitely my top ten for Indy, but not
for ten for all. Same with Flow. I think it's good,
maybe top twenty for dying, but not for all.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
So alright, well, trivia, because you like to pick indie games.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Well, no, I said in the beginning of the season.
I don't like to go back on my word. Yeah,
it's just so I was gonna be five.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
They're not very rich in trivia. But I think I
do have five goods for you.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Okay, So starting with one five good ones.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Number one, the development of Journey started out.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
This is the true and false Okay.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
The development of Journey started out with a group of
six members. True false.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
Ah, six actually seems high, but I'll say true.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
It's true. Is very true. Number two.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
Initially Sony gave Journey excuse me, huh. Initially Sony gave
Journey blank amount of months as a deadline for the
development of Journey.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Ah, Uh is it single digits? Can I ask?
Speaker 2 (05:19):
It's not single digits?
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Okay, we'll say eighteen twelve. Ooh, okay, one year.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
Initially they did extend it out to eighteen Ah initially.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
I feel like there should be some kind of That's
why I ordered it that way. I'll take my loss.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
So you're at a twenty percent right now, that's right.
Speaker 4 (05:43):
Number three, Name the person who composed the music for Journey,
who also happened to do the music for.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Flow, the.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Like musician. Do you need the full name.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
I'll take any part of the name you can give me,
cause I feel like this is a hard question.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
What about first name, last initial?
Speaker 2 (06:06):
I'll take that.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Austin W.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Yes, Austin wenty win.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
See like a lot of his uh inspiration came from
a lot of previous games, uh like, not like just
weird things like sound effects from other games. And it
actually won, well it wasn't. It didn't win, but it
was nominated for a Grammy. Yes, so that's my reason.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
I know.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
I'm Austin blah blah blah blah. I don't really know
what is it?
Speaker 3 (06:32):
What is Wintery when Tory Wintry Winter Wentory alright?
Speaker 4 (06:38):
Two out of three so far, number four. The mechanic
of communicating through chirping was partially inspired by what other
Sony first party game? It's a cult classic.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
I don't really get it, but so there's a Sony
game where they communicate with chirping, which.
Speaker 4 (07:02):
Is where they got the inspiration to make Journey this way. Hum,
I can tell you it's a PS two classic.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
PS two Yes, hmmm, I'm gonna have to conceive Yeah,
Shadow Clossus.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Oh, and that's one of his favorite games.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Did you know that? The director? Oh, okay, you were
doing well? Yeah, I'm all right.
Speaker 4 (07:36):
You might get a d in grade school level number five.
In the desert area, there's a flower growing out of
the sand. This is an Easter Egg reference to what
earlier game released by this company.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Flower.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Yeah, it's easy one. So I got three?
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Yes, you got three out of five?
Speaker 1 (07:58):
So six out of ten?
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Sure?
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Yes, well no, that is what it is.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
If you want to, yeah, make it better.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Yeah that makes me feel good. Six out of ten
is good. The game is amazing. So I wish that
I was a ash. I should have known shadow classes
because like there's certain games that Genova Chen you know,
considers inspirational games for this, and Shadow Classes was actually
(08:28):
number one.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
Actually never played it. I told you way overdo when
it comes like, I'm a Nintendo guy, but.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
I like, it's just you would love that game.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Shadow Class, Yes, I wish. Would I love more Journey Shadow.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Classes very different.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
Okay, so there will be some spoilers obviously, And okay, okay,
I mean it's only an hour game. I don't know
why you couldn't have played it. It's an hour if
you want, if you don't, if you don't take in everything,
it's an hour.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
But it's time I forget whatever you have told me.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
So the game is obviously praised for its visual and
auditory arts. There's this whole sense of companionship and life
and death and rebirth. Even deals with a lot of
complex feelings. I feel the game is actually extremely emotional
(09:28):
if you.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Let it.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
I've read people say that interesting.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
I was released in March thirteen of twenty twelve on
the PlayStation Network. You control a route figure in a
vast desert, traveling towards a mountain with no real communication
as to why, how you're going to get there, or
what your purpose is overall, So each level was actually
an interpretation of your life is are as when you're
(10:01):
first born into the world, you don't really know what
you're doing here, or why you're here, what your purpose is.
So that's your first level. As you grow as a
person in real life, you actually grow in the game
where you start to become more adventurous like people often
do in life, and eventually die and become reborn as
(10:27):
kind of a powerhouse figure. And it's really speaks to
what is the meaning of life, and that's really what
the store, like the game is truly all about. Hence
the title, because it's really not. There is no necessary,
(10:48):
you know, real end game for life. It's about the
journey leading up to the end.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
I would not have guessed that game was that deep,
especially in our experience.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
Yeah, yeah, I mean it's extremely moving in a way.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
There's definitely moments where.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
You're just really upset, not only for yourself but the
paper creatures that live throughout the world. I mean there's
certain like when they get injured, like the noises they
make is actually extremely sad, and you get really really.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Sad, and like screaming bunnies.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
Yeah, I mean it's watership down screaming bunnies. I mean
it's pretty, it's it's very moving.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
And I'm so you watch gameplay, right, watch a little bit.
Did you watch my upload?
Speaker 2 (11:38):
I didn't know you did it.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Well, we're going to start a new thing coming fan day, right,
fan Day twenty sixteen. So I'm uploading a bunch of
videos of gameplay to YouTube. Okay, then I'm pulling them
off of YouTube and we're gonna do audio commentary over
them and then put them back on YouTube for fan Day.
And the gameplay that I let me see if I
(12:02):
can pull it up, because it's released now, but it's
gonna be gone by the time you hear me talk
about it, you know, like it's listed as private until
we do the commentary, So don't go to YouTube looking
for it because it's not there. And I haven't decided
what I should title them really liquid gameplay, liquid gameplay,
(12:25):
liquid gameplay? Okay, maybe liquid no, no, all right, So
my gameplay for Journey. I'm gonna try to make them
all fifteen minutes, just because that's the maximum upload for
PS four share. And you know that that sphere that's chirping, okay,
(12:46):
And you have a companion throughout the game who you know.
I mean, it's really up to you how you work
with them or heal them or just assist them.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
They assist you.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
And one thing that's amazing about Journey that not a
lot of people realize till the credits is that this
is a real person you're playing with, and it doesn't
tell you that. It doesn't come off as a real person.
It kind of comes off as a pretty good AI.
And then at the very end of the game it
(13:19):
tells you who you've been playing with the whole time,
their their gamer tag.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Really yeah wow, And it's just I'm the one that well, okay,
he helped me.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
And it's just kind of I don't know, it's just
kind of the weirdest thing. The companion doesn't isn't there
at the very beginning That actually is supposed to symbolize
how in life, you know, it's pretty common to have
a companion with you throughout your journey, until, of course
the end. The two characters actually you know that they
(13:54):
go in the journey together, they die together, and they're
born again together.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
So is your CampaignOn forced on you? Well?
Speaker 3 (14:03):
I mean, you don't even I mean they just like
are there, Okay, you know what I mean, Like if
you're doing your own thing, you wouldn't even know that
they were there. And this is actually obviously the later levels,
and you're just like fighting to walk against the wind
from the snow because you start down in the desert
and you get to some very beautiful ruins and you're
(14:27):
surfing along the sand, and then it just kind of
gets darker, colder, a little bit more.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Less life.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
A lot of the paper creatures throughout these levels you
can't even bring back because they are frozen. They're frozen solid.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
So well, I'm a treat.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Yeah, it's weird that you you don't have it downloaded.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
No I don't.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
So while this plays, I want to talk about the scores.
Not my score six out of ten, but we'll talk
about the Metacritic score, which was ninety two out of
one hundred, which is great. A lot of other companies
such as IGN and everything else, they're all around the
nines and rightfully so, I mean, it's a very you know,
(15:12):
it's a great game, especially be taken to account everything
that I've talked about, where it's not just a game.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
So this is definitely one of your top five overall
PS three games.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Yeah, yep.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Now PS four, even though they did ramp it up
right as far as visually, even just kind of an
HD mix. There's a lot of good games on PS four,
So I know it would probably be in the top ten,
but I'm not gonna say now that it's in the
top five. Replay value I think is pretty high, especially
(15:54):
when you play again knowing that it's a real person.
So when you play the first time, you don't know, right,
you know, and you're just kind of like, yeah, whatever,
why has this guy taking all the magic? Why is
this AI doing this to me? But I mean it's
a real person trying to survive just as much as
you are. You can see the scarfs of the characters,
which symbolizes how much I guess we'll say magic or
(16:17):
life you have.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
You use it up.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
The length of your scarf is like your life, how
much you can fill it. In these later levels, especially
right here where we're all about to die, you see
the scarf just like ripping into shreds in the wind.
Neither of us have any scarf at this point, and
that's where you're trying to get you're trying to.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Get to the mountain.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
I mean, it's it isn't one hundred percent clear why.
There's been a lot of people that have interpretations.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
That's a little best.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
I like game one thing. I like in movies at
the end where.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
It's clear that the director had a direction, but it
is up to everybody on what that is was.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
I think that's really good at video games, so.
Speaker 4 (17:04):
Especially like when you've been playing with somebody the whole
time and it's like, I don't know what I'm doing.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
I like what I'm doing. Here's what I think this
was about.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Yeah, there's also a lot of other interpretations. You'll see
these almost tombstone like hexagon structures. Players have thought that
those are actual players that have passed at that position.
One one form I read said I saw this ball
(17:35):
fall from the sky and create a tombstone like the
little hexagons, And I was like, I don't know if
they went that far, because in the beginning you do
go through like this like field of I think of
them as tombstones, but I'm sure everybody else just looks
(17:55):
at me of his metal shards. Really, they don't really
clearly state I'm a Tombstone. Here lies whoever here lies
gamer tag?
Speaker 4 (18:05):
So well, see, now you gotta be interested. And now
I kind of don't want to see any more spoilers.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Okay, are you sure?
Speaker 3 (18:12):
Can I just get to the exciting stuff just for
a little bit, just so I can see some cool visuals.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Now you don't want to see anka Heaven? Okay, all right.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
I'm trying to get through it now.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Okay, well you kind of have to get through it
before we record the commentary for.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
This, because now I'm interested.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
So yeah, right now, it's just great. Huh.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
I just need oh, I really want to show you gorgeous,
but the game is really great. Yeah, that's your drink.
You can ask. I got you a drink out. People
are people are here too. It's like they're in the
room with us. Okay, we're not trying to put on
some facade where there's a drink here.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Well, radio adequacy, I guess.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Yeah, this isn't radio, this is podcasting.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
Watch I'm just sticking a drink. I'm not gonna press
mute and take a drink. Well, it's too bad you
wanted me watch this.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
I just want to click right here, don't you do it? Okay,
I won't.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
Actually, well, now we can't really purposely play together because
I would totally play with you.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
I wonder if it would Paris on purpose?
Speaker 2 (19:27):
All right, I wonder. Okay, I'm not gonna ask me
more questions.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
I'm sure we could time it, but I think it
purposely tries to make sure it's random, you know what
I mean, Like, it's not gonna pull somebody for your friends.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Let's yeah, but I'm.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Like, hey, I'm chirping. I'm chirping a lot right now.
It's mine your screen. I guess there's not a real
purpose way to do that, So that's stupid. You mentioned
earlier the music, and I mentioned earlier that it was
nominated for the Grammy Awards in twenty thirteen. Obviously, it
sparked a huge in my opinion back then, sparked a
(20:05):
huge independent renaissance, even though Flower and Flow were prior.
I did not know really about Flower until you know,
Journey became like a name.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Yeah, and I bought Flower. Have you played it? You did?
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Okay, it's not for everybody. You played The Wind, you
know what I mean? Really uses the six acts as well,
but it's definitely not as dynamic as Journey, and when
you look at that game company, all one word that
game company. What are they doing next?
Speaker 4 (20:45):
I don't know what That was kind of interesting, like
they weren't a contract to do those three games, so
I don't know what they've been doing.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
But I mean, I didn't see anything on their wikis
for upcoming projects. It's just odd.
Speaker 4 (21:03):
But you know, if you if you look into some
of the stories between them and Sony, it doesn't sound
like they had a very good relationship. Almost like Sony
was like, hey, like, get to work, make us our game,
and there's just like a lot of back and forth
from like hey, can we get more help, can we
get more time?
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Like no, they want you to change this and that.
So I don't know that.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
For all we know, they could have gone under some
you know, like maybe the original team has gone to
like Xbox.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
I don't know. I have to look into that, but well,
a very favorable relationship.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
I tried to look as far as like what Genova
Chen has been up to, and I didn't really see anything.
Speaker 4 (21:43):
M Yeah, because the last Journey was their last game
and that was in twenty twelve.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Right, right, so yeah, in four years.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Yeah, I mean I don't know it is that.
Speaker 4 (21:57):
It is kind of the Sony way though, get something
of somebody.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
I'm just saying they do that a lot.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
So when you go to games on that game company
under development. Our next game, after Journey, is currently developed,
currently in development, and will be self published, released in
and platforms to be announced. In the meantime, we're hiring, hey,
and I'm i complain about not having a job.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
I never played Cloud, I was a PC only game.
I did play Flow on PS three, I did play
Flower on PS three, and I played Journey on PS
three and PS four. So I'm a huge fan of
their games, you know. I've played all of them except
for the PC Cloud, which is actually pretty close to Flower,
(22:52):
I think.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
But you just are up higher. But I mean the
TVA thing. I don't know how long this TBA has
been on there, but there's.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Probably some speculation out there.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
I'm sure there is. And Geneva Chan is on the
development team. It looks like a lot of familiar names,
so I don't know, but.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
Well, I'm sure to be on so many platforms, but
the fact that it's self published tells.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Me a lot.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
About the relationship.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
Yeah, which is which which is good for all indodevelopers
to self publish.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
Their own work, I agree. If not, you know, through crowdfunding, yeah,
I actually miss it. There are there are crowdfunding platforms
that are strictly video games. Right outside of Kickstarter. There's
I forget what it's called, but there's been some excellent games,
but they only really do like one or two a year,
and they only approve one or two a year, it
(23:57):
seems because they they don't come out. You know, the
Kickstarter there's seven hundred card games going on the same time.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
I am.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
So I'm lucky enough to get funded when I do,
so I shouldn't complain about it.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
But I don't know. Maybe they'll go that route we
saw it with Mighty Number nine.
Speaker 4 (24:17):
Yeah, it's like the the dark side of crowdfunding, right.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Well, I mean it makes me feel better because I
think my game is going to be late. Now you
know it's not going to be that late, that bad,
So I.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Guess I don't feel as bad thinking of projects like that.
But you know, it's good to it's good to see
that everybody's human, you know. So if you haven't played Journey,
don't be silly. Just go play it. It's not it's
not going to take a lot of time out of
your day. I feel like there's a lot of replayability.
I'm willing to play with, but there's no guarantee that
(25:03):
we'll play together, so we don't have to.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
What do you mean, I don't.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Feel like you're probably a good co op partner.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
I am an excellent co op party.
Speaker 4 (25:12):
I've seen some of the things that you've done in
games where you have choices, right, and I don't like
any of them.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Yeah, we'll just have to. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
I don't think I get ever played like a was
it perm MMO or coop with you?
Speaker 1 (25:31):
That'd be a bad idea yea, if maybe that's a
game we should design.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
So make sure to follow me on Twitter at Liquid
Podcast that's for the show. You can follow me personally
at west Ares, which is the producer of this program,
which is also me. You know, I'm I'm all things.
So next week we have the Kickstarter you know, my
Kickstarter story episode that's gonna be with Owen. Then we'll
(26:00):
come back with Dante and do Tropico primarily Tropico five,
just because it's the one I played, it's the most
recent and the one I played most recently, even though
I do have four on my Mac. If you want
to have both going on, Yeah, it's up to you.
Speaker 4 (26:14):
It's a really good trivia there too.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
Oh okay, looking forward to that, and actual, you did
your job. You did your job, so make sure two
weeks from now we'll have Tropico next week. Of course
the kickstarted thing because my campaign launches. It is a
comic book game, so if you are a little bit
nerdy or geeky, I think it might be the one
(26:41):
you should check out. And if you've never checked them out,
I mean, this is the time because this is maybe
my last one.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Don't do that. Don't roll your eyes.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
Anything else you want to add since you didn't even play, No.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
I'm interested. Okay, you've done your job. You've made me
want to play a game.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
Well, I will consider this a win. Yes, kind of
like my six out of ten.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Sure d's half in college.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
DS are better than than anything really anymore. All right, cool?
Until next time. My name is Ryan. Good name
Have you been.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
I've been good.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
You I'm okay.
Speaker 3 (00:03):
I'm trying honestly. Before he came over, I was looking
for jobs and I'm just not finding anything that I
want to do. You know, I had you know, I
got laid off, right.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Oh yeah, did you?
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Five months ago I got laid off. I had a
job for like a month, and then i had another
job for like a week. And I've had a few interviews,
and a lot of those interviews made me decide not
to go forward. It's just been a really stressful five
months since the layoff. I've had two kickstarters, right, they
(00:42):
got funded, which is great, having some trouble with fulfillment
to the last game because the printing company keeps changing,
like they keep putting back the date. So originally it
was September twenty ninth, now it's like, oh, October thirty first,
and I'm like, what what, I'm having issues there. I
(01:02):
got the new kickstarter that launches next week, my last
one of the year, maybe my last one of all time.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
I don't really know, because you know, I'd like to
get a.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Real job, but in the back of my mind, I
want this to be a million dollar kickstarter and just
continue making games.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
I'm going to stop.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
If I'm going to stop, Okay, it's not I put
a lot of time into this stuff, you know, like
I have. You know, I've been doing draft emails and
like sending out letters and I don't know, but once
the game releases, I I won't talk about it anymore. Okay, Well, no,
(01:42):
the new game, that's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
No, no, there won't be a new one. No no, no,
there won't be another one.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
So next week I'm doing an episode with Owen, and
it's gonna be my Kickstarter story. So that episode comes
out the day of the campaign launches, and that'll be
the last time us they bring it up last time
because it's the last one of the year, maybe of
all time.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
Maybe that's one of the year. But next year is
a maybe. So I will be expecting one next year.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Why don't we move into video games? Why don't you
and me help create a video game? We do a
video game podcast. I'm making card games, but I'm in
my head, I'm Nintendo.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
You know what I mean. I'm doing Nintendo. Yeah, Nintendo started.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Out making card games and then they transition once the
technology became available. I would like to do the same thing.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
My programming skills are not quite what they should be,
so I don't know where you're going to get that from.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
You can outsource. We just need a basic concept. We'll talk, Okay,
if anything, we'll talk on the This Fanday special. Let's
give us something to talk about games that we would
like to create, because.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Can I make Mega Man eleven?
Speaker 3 (03:00):
No, but I can look into licensing for you if
you'd like. But anyway, that's so. Yeah, this week we're
gonna be talking about Journey. Next week is the Kickstarter story,
and then after that we're gonna jump into Tropico because
I've been playing it a lot lately.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
It's easy to play casually.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Then I'd like to do another indie title, kind of
leaning towards Limbo, and then after that I'm gonna do Infamous.
I feel like it's important. We did have somebody on
Facebook recommend Infamous, and I think that's a great idea.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
But today it's Journey and you didn't play it.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
I did not play it.
Speaker 4 (03:40):
I thought I had it on my in my library
from Plus, but I did not.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Apparently, so I need to download it. I need to
play it.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Well, I mean it's only like an hour or two hours.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
Man, I'm well overdue, Like I should have played it
on PS three. I should have played it by now,
But same story.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
So it was prop.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
My second favorite PS three game. Wow, my number one
Indy okay for PS three by far.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
I'm glad you didn't say Flower.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
No.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
No.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Flower is definitely my top ten for Indy, but not
for ten for all. Same with Flow. I think it's good,
maybe top twenty for dying, but not for all.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
So alright, well, trivia, because you like to pick indie games.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Well, no, I said in the beginning of the season.
I don't like to go back on my word. Yeah,
it's just so I was gonna be five.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
They're not very rich in trivia. But I think I
do have five goods for you.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Okay, So starting with one five good ones.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Number one, the development of Journey started out.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
This is the true and false Okay.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
The development of Journey started out with a group of
six members. True false.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
Ah, six actually seems high, but I'll say true.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
It's true. Is very true. Number two.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
Initially Sony gave Journey excuse me, huh. Initially Sony gave
Journey blank amount of months as a deadline for the
development of Journey.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Ah, Uh is it single digits? Can I ask?
Speaker 2 (05:19):
It's not single digits?
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Okay, we'll say eighteen twelve. Ooh, okay, one year.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
Initially they did extend it out to eighteen Ah initially.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
I feel like there should be some kind of That's
why I ordered it that way. I'll take my loss.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
So you're at a twenty percent right now, that's right.
Speaker 4 (05:43):
Number three, Name the person who composed the music for Journey,
who also happened to do the music for.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Flow, the.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Like musician. Do you need the full name.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
I'll take any part of the name you can give me,
cause I feel like this is a hard question.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
What about first name, last initial?
Speaker 2 (06:06):
I'll take that.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Austin W.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Yes, Austin wenty win.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
See like a lot of his uh inspiration came from
a lot of previous games, uh like, not like just
weird things like sound effects from other games. And it
actually won, well it wasn't. It didn't win, but it
was nominated for a Grammy. Yes, so that's my reason.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
I know.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
I'm Austin blah blah blah blah. I don't really know
what is it?
Speaker 3 (06:32):
What is Wintery when Tory Wintry Winter Wentory alright?
Speaker 4 (06:38):
Two out of three so far, number four. The mechanic
of communicating through chirping was partially inspired by what other
Sony first party game? It's a cult classic.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
I don't really get it, but so there's a Sony
game where they communicate with chirping, which.
Speaker 4 (07:02):
Is where they got the inspiration to make Journey this way. Hum,
I can tell you it's a PS two classic.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
PS two Yes, hmmm, I'm gonna have to conceive Yeah,
Shadow Clossus.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Oh, and that's one of his favorite games.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Did you know that? The director? Oh, okay, you were
doing well? Yeah, I'm all right.
Speaker 4 (07:36):
You might get a d in grade school level number five.
In the desert area, there's a flower growing out of
the sand. This is an Easter Egg reference to what
earlier game released by this company.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Flower.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Yeah, it's easy one. So I got three?
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Yes, you got three out of five?
Speaker 1 (07:58):
So six out of ten?
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Sure?
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Yes, well no, that is what it is.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
If you want to, yeah, make it better.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Yeah that makes me feel good. Six out of ten
is good. The game is amazing. So I wish that
I was a ash. I should have known shadow classes
because like there's certain games that Genova Chen you know,
considers inspirational games for this, and Shadow Classes was actually
(08:28):
number one.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
Actually never played it. I told you way overdo when
it comes like, I'm a Nintendo guy, but.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
I like, it's just you would love that game.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Shadow Class, Yes, I wish. Would I love more Journey Shadow.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Classes very different.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
Okay, so there will be some spoilers obviously, And okay, okay,
I mean it's only an hour game. I don't know
why you couldn't have played it. It's an hour if
you want, if you don't, if you don't take in everything,
it's an hour.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
But it's time I forget whatever you have told me.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
So the game is obviously praised for its visual and
auditory arts. There's this whole sense of companionship and life
and death and rebirth. Even deals with a lot of
complex feelings. I feel the game is actually extremely emotional
(09:28):
if you.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Let it.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
I've read people say that interesting.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
I was released in March thirteen of twenty twelve on
the PlayStation Network. You control a route figure in a
vast desert, traveling towards a mountain with no real communication
as to why, how you're going to get there, or
what your purpose is overall, So each level was actually
an interpretation of your life is are as when you're
(10:01):
first born into the world, you don't really know what
you're doing here, or why you're here, what your purpose is.
So that's your first level. As you grow as a
person in real life, you actually grow in the game
where you start to become more adventurous like people often
do in life, and eventually die and become reborn as
(10:27):
kind of a powerhouse figure. And it's really speaks to
what is the meaning of life, and that's really what
the store, like the game is truly all about. Hence
the title, because it's really not. There is no necessary,
(10:48):
you know, real end game for life. It's about the
journey leading up to the end.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
I would not have guessed that game was that deep,
especially in our experience.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
Yeah, yeah, I mean it's extremely moving in a way.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
There's definitely moments where.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
You're just really upset, not only for yourself but the
paper creatures that live throughout the world. I mean there's
certain like when they get injured, like the noises they
make is actually extremely sad, and you get really really.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Sad, and like screaming bunnies.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
Yeah, I mean it's watership down screaming bunnies. I mean
it's pretty, it's it's very moving.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
And I'm so you watch gameplay, right, watch a little bit.
Did you watch my upload?
Speaker 2 (11:38):
I didn't know you did it.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Well, we're going to start a new thing coming fan day, right,
fan Day twenty sixteen. So I'm uploading a bunch of
videos of gameplay to YouTube. Okay, then I'm pulling them
off of YouTube and we're gonna do audio commentary over
them and then put them back on YouTube for fan Day.
And the gameplay that I let me see if I
(12:02):
can pull it up, because it's released now, but it's
gonna be gone by the time you hear me talk
about it, you know, like it's listed as private until
we do the commentary, So don't go to YouTube looking
for it because it's not there. And I haven't decided
what I should title them really liquid gameplay, liquid gameplay,
(12:25):
liquid gameplay? Okay, maybe liquid no, no, all right, So
my gameplay for Journey. I'm gonna try to make them
all fifteen minutes, just because that's the maximum upload for
PS four share. And you know that that sphere that's chirping, okay,
(12:46):
And you have a companion throughout the game who you know.
I mean, it's really up to you how you work
with them or heal them or just assist them.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
They assist you.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
And one thing that's amazing about Journey that not a
lot of people realize till the credits is that this
is a real person you're playing with, and it doesn't
tell you that. It doesn't come off as a real person.
It kind of comes off as a pretty good AI.
And then at the very end of the game it
(13:19):
tells you who you've been playing with the whole time,
their their gamer tag.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Really yeah wow, And it's just I'm the one that well, okay,
he helped me.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
And it's just kind of I don't know, it's just
kind of the weirdest thing. The companion doesn't isn't there
at the very beginning That actually is supposed to symbolize
how in life, you know, it's pretty common to have
a companion with you throughout your journey, until, of course
the end. The two characters actually you know that they
(13:54):
go in the journey together, they die together, and they're
born again together.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
So is your CampaignOn forced on you? Well?
Speaker 3 (14:03):
I mean, you don't even I mean they just like
are there, Okay, you know what I mean, Like if
you're doing your own thing, you wouldn't even know that
they were there. And this is actually obviously the later levels,
and you're just like fighting to walk against the wind
from the snow because you start down in the desert
and you get to some very beautiful ruins and you're
(14:27):
surfing along the sand, and then it just kind of
gets darker, colder, a little bit more.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Less life.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
A lot of the paper creatures throughout these levels you
can't even bring back because they are frozen. They're frozen solid.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
So well, I'm a treat.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Yeah, it's weird that you you don't have it downloaded.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
No I don't.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
So while this plays, I want to talk about the scores.
Not my score six out of ten, but we'll talk
about the Metacritic score, which was ninety two out of
one hundred, which is great. A lot of other companies
such as IGN and everything else, they're all around the
nines and rightfully so, I mean, it's a very you know,
(15:12):
it's a great game, especially be taken to account everything
that I've talked about, where it's not just a game.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
So this is definitely one of your top five overall
PS three games.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Yeah, yep.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Now PS four, even though they did ramp it up
right as far as visually, even just kind of an
HD mix. There's a lot of good games on PS four,
So I know it would probably be in the top ten,
but I'm not gonna say now that it's in the
top five. Replay value I think is pretty high, especially
(15:54):
when you play again knowing that it's a real person.
So when you play the first time, you don't know, right,
you know, and you're just kind of like, yeah, whatever,
why has this guy taking all the magic? Why is
this AI doing this to me? But I mean it's
a real person trying to survive just as much as
you are. You can see the scarfs of the characters,
which symbolizes how much I guess we'll say magic or
(16:17):
life you have.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
You use it up.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
The length of your scarf is like your life, how
much you can fill it. In these later levels, especially
right here where we're all about to die, you see
the scarf just like ripping into shreds in the wind.
Neither of us have any scarf at this point, and
that's where you're trying to get you're trying to.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Get to the mountain.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
I mean, it's it isn't one hundred percent clear why.
There's been a lot of people that have interpretations.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
That's a little best.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
I like game one thing. I like in movies at
the end where.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
It's clear that the director had a direction, but it
is up to everybody on what that is was.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
I think that's really good at video games, so.
Speaker 4 (17:04):
Especially like when you've been playing with somebody the whole
time and it's like, I don't know what I'm doing.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
I like what I'm doing. Here's what I think this
was about.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Yeah, there's also a lot of other interpretations. You'll see
these almost tombstone like hexagon structures. Players have thought that
those are actual players that have passed at that position.
One one form I read said I saw this ball
(17:35):
fall from the sky and create a tombstone like the
little hexagons, And I was like, I don't know if
they went that far, because in the beginning you do
go through like this like field of I think of
them as tombstones, but I'm sure everybody else just looks
(17:55):
at me of his metal shards. Really, they don't really
clearly state I'm a Tombstone. Here lies whoever here lies
gamer tag?
Speaker 4 (18:05):
So well, see, now you gotta be interested. And now
I kind of don't want to see any more spoilers.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Okay, are you sure?
Speaker 3 (18:12):
Can I just get to the exciting stuff just for
a little bit, just so I can see some cool visuals.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Now you don't want to see anka Heaven? Okay, all right.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
I'm trying to get through it now.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Okay, well you kind of have to get through it
before we record the commentary for.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
This, because now I'm interested.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
So yeah, right now, it's just great. Huh.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
I just need oh, I really want to show you gorgeous,
but the game is really great. Yeah, that's your drink.
You can ask. I got you a drink out. People
are people are here too. It's like they're in the
room with us. Okay, we're not trying to put on
some facade where there's a drink here.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Well, radio adequacy, I guess.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Yeah, this isn't radio, this is podcasting.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
Watch I'm just sticking a drink. I'm not gonna press
mute and take a drink. Well, it's too bad you
wanted me watch this.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
I just want to click right here, don't you do it? Okay,
I won't.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
Actually, well, now we can't really purposely play together because
I would totally play with you.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
I wonder if it would Paris on purpose?
Speaker 2 (19:27):
All right, I wonder. Okay, I'm not gonna ask me
more questions.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
I'm sure we could time it, but I think it
purposely tries to make sure it's random, you know what
I mean, Like, it's not gonna pull somebody for your friends.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Let's yeah, but I'm.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Like, hey, I'm chirping. I'm chirping a lot right now.
It's mine your screen. I guess there's not a real
purpose way to do that, So that's stupid. You mentioned
earlier the music, and I mentioned earlier that it was
nominated for the Grammy Awards in twenty thirteen. Obviously, it
sparked a huge in my opinion back then, sparked a
(20:05):
huge independent renaissance, even though Flower and Flow were prior.
I did not know really about Flower until you know,
Journey became like a name.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Yeah, and I bought Flower. Have you played it? You did?
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Okay, it's not for everybody. You played The Wind, you
know what I mean? Really uses the six acts as well,
but it's definitely not as dynamic as Journey, and when
you look at that game company, all one word that
game company. What are they doing next?
Speaker 4 (20:45):
I don't know what That was kind of interesting, like
they weren't a contract to do those three games, so
I don't know what they've been doing.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
But I mean, I didn't see anything on their wikis
for upcoming projects. It's just odd.
Speaker 4 (21:03):
But you know, if you if you look into some
of the stories between them and Sony, it doesn't sound
like they had a very good relationship. Almost like Sony
was like, hey, like, get to work, make us our game,
and there's just like a lot of back and forth
from like hey, can we get more help, can we
get more time?
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Like no, they want you to change this and that.
So I don't know that.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
For all we know, they could have gone under some
you know, like maybe the original team has gone to
like Xbox.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
I don't know. I have to look into that, but well,
a very favorable relationship.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
I tried to look as far as like what Genova
Chen has been up to, and I didn't really see anything.
Speaker 4 (21:43):
M Yeah, because the last Journey was their last game
and that was in twenty twelve.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Right, right, so yeah, in four years.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Yeah, I mean I don't know it is that.
Speaker 4 (21:57):
It is kind of the Sony way though, get something
of somebody.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
I'm just saying they do that a lot.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
So when you go to games on that game company
under development. Our next game, after Journey, is currently developed,
currently in development, and will be self published, released in
and platforms to be announced. In the meantime, we're hiring, hey,
and I'm i complain about not having a job.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
I never played Cloud, I was a PC only game.
I did play Flow on PS three, I did play
Flower on PS three, and I played Journey on PS
three and PS four. So I'm a huge fan of
their games, you know. I've played all of them except
for the PC Cloud, which is actually pretty close to Flower,
(22:52):
I think.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
But you just are up higher. But I mean the
TVA thing. I don't know how long this TBA has
been on there, but there's.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Probably some speculation out there.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
I'm sure there is. And Geneva Chan is on the
development team. It looks like a lot of familiar names,
so I don't know, but.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
Well, I'm sure to be on so many platforms, but
the fact that it's self published tells.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Me a lot.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
About the relationship.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
Yeah, which is which which is good for all indodevelopers
to self publish.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
Their own work, I agree. If not, you know, through crowdfunding, yeah,
I actually miss it. There are there are crowdfunding platforms
that are strictly video games. Right outside of Kickstarter. There's
I forget what it's called, but there's been some excellent games,
but they only really do like one or two a year,
and they only approve one or two a year, it
(23:57):
seems because they they don't come out. You know, the
Kickstarter there's seven hundred card games going on the same time.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
I am.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
So I'm lucky enough to get funded when I do,
so I shouldn't complain about it.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
But I don't know. Maybe they'll go that route we
saw it with Mighty Number nine.
Speaker 4 (24:17):
Yeah, it's like the the dark side of crowdfunding, right.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Well, I mean it makes me feel better because I
think my game is going to be late. Now you
know it's not going to be that late, that bad,
So I.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Guess I don't feel as bad thinking of projects like that.
But you know, it's good to it's good to see
that everybody's human, you know. So if you haven't played Journey,
don't be silly. Just go play it. It's not it's
not going to take a lot of time out of
your day. I feel like there's a lot of replayability.
I'm willing to play with, but there's no guarantee that
(25:03):
we'll play together, so we don't have to.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
What do you mean, I don't.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Feel like you're probably a good co op partner.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
I am an excellent co op party.
Speaker 4 (25:12):
I've seen some of the things that you've done in
games where you have choices, right, and I don't like
any of them.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Yeah, we'll just have to. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
I don't think I get ever played like a was
it perm MMO or coop with you?
Speaker 1 (25:31):
That'd be a bad idea yea, if maybe that's a
game we should design.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
So make sure to follow me on Twitter at Liquid
Podcast that's for the show. You can follow me personally
at west Ares, which is the producer of this program,
which is also me. You know, I'm I'm all things.
So next week we have the Kickstarter you know, my
Kickstarter story episode that's gonna be with Owen. Then we'll
(26:00):
come back with Dante and do Tropico primarily Tropico five,
just because it's the one I played, it's the most
recent and the one I played most recently, even though
I do have four on my Mac. If you want
to have both going on, Yeah, it's up to you.
Speaker 4 (26:14):
It's a really good trivia there too.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
Oh okay, looking forward to that, and actual, you did
your job. You did your job, so make sure two
weeks from now we'll have Tropico next week. Of course
the kickstarted thing because my campaign launches. It is a
comic book game, so if you are a little bit
nerdy or geeky, I think it might be the one
(26:41):
you should check out. And if you've never checked them out,
I mean, this is the time because this is maybe
my last one.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Don't do that. Don't roll your eyes.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
Anything else you want to add since you didn't even play, No.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
I'm interested. Okay, you've done your job. You've made me
want to play a game.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
Well, I will consider this a win. Yes, kind of
like my six out of ten.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Sure d's half in college.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
DS are better than than anything really anymore. All right, cool?
Until next time. My name is Ryan. Good name
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