E18 - Interview w/ Jennifer

In this episode, Melissa interviews Jennifer. Jennifer gives us insight to the Billy/Mitchell aspect of the case when it comes to people of interest. This is an interview you don't want to miss.

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
Here on the safe Haven Podcast.Any names mentioned should not be considered as
suspects unless officially stated as such bylaw enforcement. Any opinions during interviews on
this podcast or the opinions of theinterviewee and don't reflect the opinions of the
safe Haven Podcast or the AMU ColdCase team. Everyone is innocent until proven

(00:21):
guilty in a court of law.Hi, everyone, and welcome back to
another episode of safe Haven The UnsoldMurder for Judith Petty. We are coming
back to you today to kind ofgive you updates on what's been going on
in Judy's case. There's been alot of movements happening and we wanted to
come back on and record a specialepisode for you today. But first I

(00:45):
want to talk about how Missus Pettyis doing. So. Missus Petty,
as everyone knows, has been inthe hospital for the last three or four
weeks. She's finally out. We'resuper excited she's home. She looks gorgeous,
and so thank you to everyone whohas been amazing and sending your thoughts
and prayers to missus Petty. Youknow she was in the ICU. She

(01:08):
had ball obstruction and so many otherthings going on. And had to undergo
a very risky surgery, but sheis one tough cookie and she has come
through that and she is now homeand doing some rehab with her daughters there
and all of that. So thankyou, thank you, thank you for
everybody for your support for the Pettyfamily as always. And with that being

(01:33):
said, I wanted to introduce ourguest today on safe Haven, so I
put out a teaser earlier in theweek letting you know that we are having
a special guest on safe Haven andthat guest her name is Jennifer. Jennifer
is a relative of the Billy's familyand the Right family. So we'll talk

(01:55):
to her, and she's been atremendous help. She had reached out to
me a while ago, just kindof asking some information, and since that
point we're in constant conversation with her. She has been a tremendous help for
Judy Petty and the fight for justice. So I'm so happy to have you
here. Jennifer. How are youdoing. I'm doing really good. Thanks,

(02:17):
good good, It's glad to behere. Yeah, she's a little
nervous. I was like, listen, let's just have a drink. We'll
figure this out, no problem,it's just her and I talking right,
Yes, yes, So tell ushow you and I got connected. How
did you find out about this?It's maybe three or four weeks ago.
My husband had to pick me upfrom work. I was sick, and

(02:38):
on the way home, he hadtold me that his mother, Lisa,
Shrek and Goss, had called himthat morning and told him that you all
had reached out to her at somepoint about this investigation about the Petty family
and Judith and how they were wantingto know more about the rights and her

(03:00):
brother, Billy and that sort ofthing. I think she was, you
know, just generally telling him.She had told my husband that there was
a podcast out there, and herand her husband, Mickey, had listened
to the entire thing. And that'skind of how I first found out.
So when I went home that day, I looked up the podcast, I
started listening a little bit, andthen I found the Facebook group page,

(03:21):
and I read some comments on thereand was actually pretty shocked to see the
comments about Bob and Kim. Right, So I saw some things that your
investigation team had asked about who currentlylives up here at the house that Billy
had lived in, and nobody wouldgive you any information. So at that
point I reached out to you tojust kind of let you know, Hey,

(03:43):
we're the ones that live up here. I think it's important that you
know that and who we were.Yep, exactly, And so you and
your husband, Brandon right live upat Billy's house, Billy, Shrek and
Goss. And for anyone who obviouslyis familiar with our investigation, Billy,
Shrek and Goss's name has been broughtup as a person of interest in this

(04:04):
case because of multiple red flags thatwe've talked about in other episodes, but
also Billy himself mentioning to a sourceabout the involvement of Mitchell and Kim and
Bob and himself. So we weretrying to figure out who lived at Billy's
house, and that is Jennifer andBrandon. So when you became familiar with

(04:26):
the case and you started taking alook at it and you reached out,
and you were so great and justreally wanting to be as helpful as possible.
Did you know Billy or Mitchell oranyone prior to No, I never
met either of them. I starteddating Brandon at the end of twenty twelve,
and that was in North Carolina.We moved to West Virginia the end

(04:49):
of twenty thirteen. Beginning of fourteen. I met Kim, Bob and Kansas,
and Billy actually died before I hadthe chance to meet him, and
I never did meet Mitchell. Soyou came into the family, you lived
in another state. Brandon, also, for listeners to know, did not
live in the area in two thousandand eight when Judy was murdered. And

(05:12):
I'm going to stay murdered because untilwe can prove otherwise, you have to
treat it as a murder. Andeverything that we've shown so far shows that
she was killed and set on fire. So and Brandon wasn't in that area
as well, So he was notaround Billy, Mitchell, any of these
key people that were looking at No. As far as I know, I
don't think Brandon saw Billy. Ithink the last time he may have saw

(05:35):
Billy was when his ex girlfriend waspregnant with their daughter, I believe,
and that was in two thousand.She was born in June of two thousand
and eight, and I think theycame up here for some family thing.
I'm not really sure, but itwas a visit. I'm not positive on
that though. Yeah, So whendid you all move into Billy's house?

(05:55):
What year was that Billy died?I think, Oh, I'm so bad
with date? Was it? Yeah? Right, So we moved in.
We came in and started cleaning upvery shortly after that, maybe weeks after
that, and then we over acouple of months, we were here cleaning
the house, making it livable,and we moved in during that transition,

(06:17):
So maybe within a couple of months, because at that point Lisa and Kim
obtained the property and there were legallegalities they had to go through, you
know, to divide things up right, right, And we're going to talk
about that, you know, laterin the episode as to how you so
for listeners after your Billy died.As we know the letter that was written,

(06:40):
you know, I'm going to sayby Kim and not Billy. I
don't have proof of that, buteverything is telling me that Kim actually wrote
that letter, not Billy. Youknow, the property was given to Kim
and to Lisa, and Lisa wasgiven Billy's house and properties that right,
Yes, So from there Lisa waslike, sure, I'll have my son
and his wife move in there.Yes, okay, So I think the

(07:01):
reason for that too, is becauseit was she wanted somebody in here that
she could trust, because she obtainedthe property, and you know, everybody
knows that house that doesn't have peoplein it kind of falls apart, and
I don't think she wanted that,So she wanted us here, which is
understandable, right, And that's exactlykind of how the Petty's house was,
right, So nobody was living upthere, but yet they still tried to

(07:25):
maintain it as much as possible.But I believe that's where activity was happening
on their property without them knowing itbecause no one was actually living up there,
right, So that's a sidebar.So you and I have talked a
lot through these weeks and have reallyhad some great conversation and discussions, and

(07:46):
so that's what I kind of wantto bring out today, and we've talked
a lot about this, is thatwe're looking at the right family specifically,
right, we're looking at the rightfamily having knowledge about what happened to Judy.
And I know, because I've talkedto you a lot, that this
is not easy for you to comeout right because this is your family.
You're related by marriage, right,You're married to somebody who is part of

(08:09):
this family that we're investigating. Yes, so what made you decide to get
involved as much as you have andtry to help what? I don't know,
really, I kind of just started. My main goal at first was
just to let you know that weare the ones that live here, because
I don't have to hide that.I mean, I don't know why people

(08:31):
cans this or whoever wouldn't tell youwho lived here, because it's pretty common
knowledge that we live here. Imean, I work in the community.
So I didn't want to appear tobe part of that hidden whatever. I
just didn't want to be a partof that. I don't have anything.
I don't have a reason for peoplenot to know that we don't live here
exactly. And so and then youjust by talking. I told you when

(08:54):
I first moved into this house,I had seen the one poster of Judy
across from the gate of their property. I got out one day, I
read it. I saw it.It was very haunting to me. So
I did a little Internet research andfound out basically what all they knew happened,
and it did haunt me because we'reliterally two farms over from there.

(09:16):
It just kind of always stuck inmy brain, you know, like what
happened to her? You know,it's so close to where we live now,
and I've always had that in theback of my mind. And you
have you ever been on the pettyproperty? No, Like I told you
we were last Thanksgiving. We werechasing the stray dog and he kept going
up there, and I wanted sobad to go up there try to find

(09:37):
him, but it's private property andI wasn't going to do that. But
you know, that's one thing Ijust wanted to bring up is you got
you rescued a dog that was downat the bottom of their driveway, right
and it's the cutest dog. Heis. We talked about like there's this
like spirit kind of intuition. Telleveryone the dog's name Finn Fin Finn,

(09:58):
you sign me a pitch e FinAnd I was like, oh my goodness,
so adorable. And you know,I think that's kind of like if
you believe in intuition and things happeningfor a reason, right, I do.
That is so interesting to me thatthere was a dog right on the
property. He was actually on ourproperty the very first time we saw him.

(10:20):
My mother in law Lisa, andher husband and my niece and nephew
came up for Thanksgiving, and theday that they left, he was on
the property, our property, andat first, you know, they thought
he was kind of a threat,and so my husband chased him off.
And then I kept seeing him aroundour property. And then I would drive
to work and I would see himat the bottom of the petty's driveway and
he would try to catch him.He'd go up there, and you know,

(10:43):
it took a month we found him, we caught him, but now
he's ours. So yeah, he'sadorable everyone. He's adorable. And you
know, for me and then foryou to be for us to get connected
this way, you know as well. I think it's a higher power,
right, I think that I thinkJudy's like, come together, come together.
I do feel that I do too. And you have been amazing.

(11:05):
You and your husband have been amazingand really kind of open to anything that
I throw at you, you know, just as ideas. And you and
your husband took a four wheeler outfor me trying to do the different trails
that we've shown on the Facebook.As we're trying to you know, obviously,
the train is very different from twothousand and eight until now and things

(11:28):
have changed, but you and yourhusband have been more than willing to help
us out because we're not on theground there. So I really wanted to
thank you both for doing that,and really you all have an interest in
helping figure out what happened to Judy, so that you all know if your
family right, regardless of who itis, it's somehow in this group and

(11:50):
we just need to figure out thepieces of it to that, it means
why are we not helping right?Why are we not talking? Why aren't
we doing that? So I wantto kind of talk about your relationship with
Kim and Kansas. So prior tonow, how was your relationship with them?
Did you see them, did yougo visit them? What was was

(12:13):
it cordial? What was your relationshipwith Kim and Kansas prior to our investigation?
It was always very cordial, ifyou want to use that. I
mean our Brandon's daughter. Prior tous gaining custody in August twenty nineteen,
she would come up for visits.We would let her go, you know,
play with Kansas as kids and thatsort of thing, and occasionally we

(12:33):
would go down to Kim's house occasionallywe would go to Kansas house. It
was never, you know, anythinghostile at all. I mean, it
was very you know, it wasfine. They always said, you know,
they were always nice and always gaveour daughter Sarah, you know,
things like clothing and things like that. So you know, they were always

(12:54):
nice and everything. And so whenyou reached out to me and we started
talking and you said, listen,you know me and Brandon live up here,
and again I reassured them, like, nobody from our safe Haven crew
right is going to go to Billy'sproperty or do anything in regards to Billy's
property. You know, we're justlooking to figure out what happened to Judy.

(13:15):
And the fact that Jennifer and Brandonare willing to help us is so
crucial to the Petty family, right, They're so appreciative. As everybody knows.
When I was in town investigating andKansas and I got into a disagreement
and we showed up our house andshe refused to talk. You know,
we found out that Kim was actuallyin the hospital. She had a stroke

(13:37):
and then she was getting some rehab. And so when I was talking to
you, Jennifer, you were like, you know what I'm going to go
visit her because Lisa's trying to geta hold of her. We can't reach
her. We want to make sureshe's okay. So you picked up flowers,
which was so sweet, Right,you pick up flowers. You go
like to visit her because you havesome a core relationship. So no one's

(14:01):
heard from her, so everyone's gettingworried. So you show up at the
hospital right to visit her and tellme how initially when you saw her what
happened? I went, you know, like you just said, we didn't
even know she had been in thehospital for as long I had. We
had just found that out by Lisaletting us know, and Lisa had been

(14:22):
trying to get ahold of her.So I figured, hey, she's she's
here. I'm gonna go see her. I was going to bring up the
investigation to her. That was anotherthing I wanted to ask. I did
kind of struggle with how I wasgoing to do that. So I showed
up and I went into the roomand she was there with a nurse I
think, and she was extremely surprisedto see me, and it was emotional.

(14:45):
I mean, I'm not close tohim, but it was emotional.
We both teared a little bit,and I gave her a hug, and
I mean she seemed genuinely happy tohave a visitor. I mean that's the
way she appeared, you know.So initially it was good. She just
kind of took off talking. Iasked her, you know, why she
had not been in contact with anybodyin the family, that her sister had
been worried about her, and we'reright here, you know, why not

(15:09):
reach out to us if she neededsomething. The first thing she kind of
said was, and it did ittook me aback, was that she kind
of went, well, oh,you know, I don't know, I've
just been so stressed out with thisbillion Mitchell bullshit, and I just kind
of stopped and my brain just kindof, you know, turned, and

(15:30):
I thought, oh my god,I was supposed to lead with that,
and here she did. She ledwith it. And I didn't really know
where to go from that point onas far as conversation went, because it
did kind of stop my brain alittle bit. So you show up and
you're there to hey, Flowers,check on you, but you're also going
to ask about, you know,this investigation because we've reached out to you.

(15:50):
Lisa's talked about it, right,so you were going to ask her,
but before you can even get thereand you're just kind of normal conversation,
she brings it, uh yeah,right yeah, and then you're kind
of like, okay, like itwas on a left field for you.
It was okay, it was sowhat what did she say after she you

(16:11):
know, said about this Billie andMitchell bullshit? What was what was she
going with that? You know,she said that and I kind of just
went, well, you know aboutthat. You know, also, that's
the other thing I wanted to bringup to you. You know, these
investigators have been kind of been reachingout to everybody, and you know,
what is all of that about,Like what's going on? Kim? And

(16:33):
she said I don't remember exactly thewording she said, but she just said
something like, why have you beentalking to them? And I said,
well, yeah, you know,we've talked to them. They're wanting to
bring out cadaver dogs to the propertyand maybe take a look into the pond.
And when I said that, sheleaned forward a little bit and just
went what why cadaver dogs? Whatare they looking for? And I said,

(16:56):
I don't know anything they could find, you know, they're there investigating
Judy Petty's death and they're wanting tofind out who did it, and so
they're you know, they're looking atthe family and people that live that have
lived out there. And again Idon't remember exactly what I said, but
it was toward that, and shejust told me that. She said,

(17:17):
don't tell them anything, don't letthem bring cadaver dogs, don't cooperate,
no comment, you don't tell themanything. And at that point, I'm
thinking, like, what's the bigdeal? And tell the listeners to her
physical reaction to that. So yousat there and you said, listen,
you know they're talking about bringing outcadaver dogs. What we are looking at.

(17:37):
You know, the reason why we'relooking at cadaver dogs is really for
Billy's house, right, because ifsomething happened in Billy's house, cadaver dogs
can pick up since these sixteen yearslater, even if there's been cleaning down,
floor changes, it's in the cement. Yeah, cadaver dogs can pick
all of that up. So again, the team is thinking outside the box,

(17:59):
right. This is a cold piecefor a reason, so we have
to be creative. So I wantyou to mention like she was just what.
She was sitting in bed and thenwhat happened. She was in a
chair, actually she had a gatebelt on, and she just like kind
of tried to lean forward and hereyes got really big, and she wanted
to know why the cadaver dogs,and I said I don't. I was

(18:19):
trying to be as general as Icould without right making. I wanted to
continue to talk to her, soI didn't want her to like throw me
out. So I was just like, I don't know. You know,
they're looking for maybe did Billy diein the house. Do you know somebody
die in the house? And shesaid, Billy died outside the auction house.
I have the pictures if they wantto see them. And I was

(18:41):
like, okay, show them.I guess you know, then there wouldn't
be an issue with any blood inthe house, right right, But we're
looking at was Judy in the house? Something happened in there? You know.
I remember talking to you afterwards,and it was like a noticeable,
noticeable difference in her her voice andher whole demeanor. Yeah, like sad

(19:04):
up right, I remember you sayingsat up. I find it so interesting
that she was telling you don't cooperatedon't she no comment, don't have them?
Why do you do you think aboutthat? I thought it was strange
because, I mean, again,at this point, I'm not even fully
sure of everything that's going on,and I just thought it was a strange

(19:30):
reaction because I mean, what's thebig deal again, what's the big deal?
Like, if there's there's apparently thatI feel. I felt like there
was something inside of her mind thatwas a big deal enough where she kind
of just got scared and defensive.And not only that, she even made
a comment about I mean, shewent back and forth talking about her health

(19:52):
problems that she's been having and thestroke and all of that. She showed
me some pictures and then she madea comment about how you guys were trying
to kill her. And I'm sorry, I got a drink on that one,
Jennifer, It's not funny, butyeah, no, I'm laughing that
she thinks that we're trying to killher, and that's it was so bizarre
to me. I mean, Iunderstand she's been sick and everything, but

(20:15):
then I start thinking backward, she'sbeen sick for a year. She's telling
me she's been sick, that shehad to go to Morgantown, and I'm
pre easing this timeline back to whenI believe you guys first came out here
and started the investigation. Yes,and that's about when she started getting sick.
And I'm thinking too, I mean, my mind is spinning at that

(20:37):
point in that hospital room, andI'm thinking, did it stress her out?
Did it? Yeah? You guysbeing up here, is that what's
really going on? Is that whyshe's sick? I don't know. And
I think you nailed it on thehead, Jennifer, And yes, I
mean, I don't anything to happento Kim. I'm not trying to kill
Kim. But I find it interestingthat that is what in her mind she

(21:00):
thinks we're doing. And you know, when I heard that, I laughed
as well. Because the thing isis that Lisa isn't in the hospital sick.
Her brother Stephen is not in thehospital sick. So the two other
siblings who have talked to us andhave answered questions are not saying we're trying

(21:21):
to kill them by looking at aninvestigation that supposedly quote they know nothing about.
On that note too, I'm goingto quickly add Lisa, my mother
in law, she's like doing theopposite. She's going out there and she's
taking like motorcycle lessons. I mean, she's just living her life and she's
not. I mean she's concerned obviouslythat you know, Billy is right now
in the spotlight, and I understandthat that's her brother. I understand it

(21:44):
completely, but she's not stressed outabout it, like where she's in fear
for herself or anything. You know, this isn't causing that level of stress,
right, And so yes, it'sstressful of course when your family members
being looked at, right, it'snot easy, but the best thing you
can do is to cooperate. Andyou know, the thing for Kim is,

(22:07):
yes, we started this a yearago and that is when everything came
out that we were looking at thatand if you back it up to what
Kim is saying, that's when allof her health started to decline. So
for me, if you put twoand two together, like you just said,
there's a correlation. Yeah, andthere should not be a correlation if
you know nothing, which they're claimingthey know nothing. So yeah, so

(22:32):
she she threw that out there thatyou know, we're trying to kill her
and we are not there was somethingelse that I wanted to mention real quick.
She had mentioned about Judy being slow. Did she say that to you
somebody else? Yes? I thinkKim had mentioned to somebody that Judy Again,

(22:55):
she brought this up to somebody elseand she said, well, you
know that Judy was slow, right, that wasn't I don't think that was
me. I don't think it wasyou either. I think it might have
been Lisa. I find that interestingbecause Judy did not have any cognitive issues,
like she wasn't slow right. Soagain I don't know where that's coming
from. Yeah, I wouldn't knoweither. So does that mean that that's

(23:18):
why she was killed? She slow? I mean, I guess again,
I don't understand where Kim goes withsome of our comments. But right,
you know, okay, so we'regoing back. You're sitting there, she
tells you not to talk, notto cooperate, to say no comment.
And what I found interesting, andyou can tell me if this is how
you felt, Jennifer or not,was that it seemed to me like her

(23:40):
reasoning for saying that was to protectyou and Brandon, Like she played the
I'm so worried about you all.You all have nothing to do with Yes,
she did say that, yeah,tell me about that, she said,
again, I don't remember. Ihave a terrible memory. I will
say that. But your pa forshe said something like, I think I

(24:03):
said, well, we didn't livehere. I said, obviously I have.
We have nothing to worry about,you know, because we weren't here
during that time. And she said, you're right, you guys are innocent
in all this. And I'm like, yeah, I know, we are,
I mean, and I'm like,and it's you know, I told
her that. I think I toldher that we had gone and did the
four wheel rides. I think Itold her that. Maybe I didn't,

(24:25):
but she just was just so likejust I don't know. It just didn't
feel normal to me, the wholeof conversation. It just didn't feel right.
It wasn't the I mean, Ihad listened to the podcast, I
listened to Kansas and Bob already.I did not understand why at that point.
I think when I talked to her, I just it was so kind

(24:47):
of unbelievable to me that it was. It was such it was like everybody's
going at great lengths not to talkand making people not talk and then it
just seemed so strange to me.It fel it's strange to me, just
her whole reaction and just how shejust kept saying, don't say anything,
no comment, you know, justyou don't have to talk to them.

(25:10):
They don't have to come out toyour property. You know, you don't
have to let them do anything.Don't let them do anything. And I
just was like, but what doesit matter? You know, it doesn't
It doesn't matter. They can dowhat they want, you know. And
and the reason is, and that'swhat I don't understand is why would you
not want to clear your brother andson? Yes, And that's saying exactly

(25:30):
to say no comment, right,to put up these defenses to get this
reaction. If you know nothing anddo nothing, say go ahead and go
for it, right, Like yeah, Like when she said that she had
photos to prove to you that Billycommitted suicide and the way he died,
and I don't think I said itout loud, but I definitely know I
was thinking it. I've like,why don't you show them then? You

(25:53):
know, why don't you come forwardand just talk to them and show them
matter? If you have something thatyou want to show them how did it
all kind of wrap up? Itwrapped up because I felt like I wasn't
getting anywhere, and she kind ofkept going back to her health. And
then we were showing pictures of thekids. You know, she was showing
me pictures of her grandkids, andI was showing her pictures of Sarah,
our daughter, and and just kindof she was like just saying things like

(26:18):
God, time goes by so fastand they grow up so fast. And
it was getting kind of late.It was a weeknight, and I just,
you know, I told her thatI was going to come back.
I think this was on a Wednesday. And I told her I was going
to come back Friday and see herif she was okay with that, because
I had asked her if anybody hadbeen visiting her and she told me no,
and I did feel bad for herbecause of that. So I told

(26:41):
her I would come back and visitFriday when I got off work, because
I get off at three on Fridaysand I could have stayed longer. And
she said okay, yeah, andthen I went home, and I think
before I even got home, ormaybe right as I got home, I
had this long ass text message fromKansas well, we'll definitely talk about about
that in a second. But Ialso want to kind of just circle back

(27:03):
before we close up on Kim.Did you not let her know, Like,
didn't she ask why are they doingthis? It's been sixteen years?
And you were, yeah, shedid her parents tell us a little bit
about that. What did she sayand what was your response? She did
say that, like, it's beenall these years, why are they still
digging it up? And I said, well, I said her parents are
very elderly, and I said,they're not doing so well, you know,

(27:27):
physically, they're elderly, they're sick, you know, and they want
some closure to this before they die. And did she seem to get that
or did she just have a reaction. I don't think she got it.
She just kind of was like,not really. I don't even think she
was really listening to me. Idon't she was just kind of looking off
to the side. Yeah, Idon't think that she was thinking about that

(27:49):
or them, right, because it'sself protection going on it, Yeah,
exactly. And that's a point I'vebrought up to several people even that I've
to at my work and even Brandon, my husband. You know, it's
like, you got to really thinkabout these people and what they're going through.
Wouldn't you want the same kind ofclosure? And I think that bothers

(28:10):
me a lot, and I've heardit quite a bit in the years.
I've had people say, why don'tthey just let this go? It's been
sixteen years. Why are they draggingthis up? That boils my blood.
That's very frustrating for the Petty familyto hear that that is their daughter,
that is their sister who was seton fire right now sixteen years If that
happened to your daughter or your lovedone, is there any amount of time

(28:33):
that would make it not the righttime? No, it would never go
away. No, never, Andthey deserve this. And even if they
when they do find out, ifthey do find out, it's still not
going to make the pain go away. But at least they'll know what happened.
They don't have any idea what wasgoing on in her mind when this

(28:53):
was happening to her, And thatis a devastating feeling. It is what
ifs. Yeah, I've never gonethrough it as a parent, and I
hope I never have to, butI cannot imagine it because when you become
a parent. That's the first thingyou think about is protecting your children,
no matter how old they get.And when something like that happens, I

(29:14):
just cannot I can't imagine it.And that's where I think my kudos and
hats off to you for stepping upand being willing to have these conversations with
us and being willing to help us, because you know, we are trying
to find justice for Judy and herparents and the whole family. Because it
doesn't matter how long it's been.To me, that's a that's a cop

(29:36):
out, like what, what doesthat even matter? Right? It doesn't
matter. It doesn't matter at all. When you can sit across from mister
and missus Petty and try to explainthis and try to tell them, well
it's been sixteen years. Sorry,I welcome anyone to try to do that.
Yeah, but anyway, yeah,okay, So you were wrapping it

(29:57):
up with Kim. I thought therewas something else that I wanted to touch
on, but I'll probably remember itlater. That's normally what goes on.
So you are almost home, Youget home and I kind of said,
do you hey, you're probably gonnaget a message from Kansas, right you
did? You did, and youwere right. I'm like this, Kans

(30:18):
is gonna blow you up. Andso you get home and you all of
a sudden get what from Kansas atext message? Okay and tell us what
would that was all about. Itwent on for like two days, actually
it was I haven't pulled up actuallyright now, she said, my mom's
not in the best health. Yousaw that day. I don't know why

(30:41):
I made a point to try togo see her. And then this Judy
petty bullshit. She actually said,she said that her mom isn't going to
talk to anyone, and all youdid was upset her first of all,
about that we're family. Why isit so hard to comprehend that family member
would go visit a family member inthe hospital. I don't understand that.

(31:02):
Like I didn't bring up Judy,she brought it up. I didn't have
a chance to so. And Iwas going there to check on her and
to see if she needed anything,and I offered to help her when she
got home if she needed anything.I was there. I told her that.
So my intentions were not like Kansasis making it sound. Whatever.
She said that whatever we choose todo to leave her mom and herself out

(31:23):
of it. We're not talking tothese safe haven people. They're just civil
investigators, not real cops. Youdon't have to talk to them. My
mom doesn't want the drama or tohave anything to do with Lisa. This
is crap. She doesn't need todeal with. Her health is most important
to me. And what can theydo to Uncle Bill or Mitchell for that
matter, They are both gone.Yeah, so that is a lot to

(31:47):
break down because in her text,so first of all, you go and
visit, you don't bring up Judykimdoms then and I don't know if we've
gotten to this part yet, butthis visit that you have, Kim was
excited to see you. It endedwell, she didn't kick you out.
No, she hugged me and kissedme. It was all fine, right,
Yeah, How would you describe thatvisit a standard hospital visit? Yeah,

(32:12):
it was just it wasn't even thatit was a standard hospital visit,
based on the fact I haven't seenKim in probably two years. So it
was not only that. It wasa let's come together and you know,
like reunite and try to become afamily, or that's how I felt.
And it was a very non aggressive, non kind of visit where you know

(32:35):
Kim was visibly upset during your visit. No, not at all. She
was very happy to have a visitor. Even the nurse when I first got
there was I think she was takingher food tray away, you know,
even said that you know she wasgoing to start crying because it was just
such a nice moment between us,which is I mean, which is so
great, right, but then tellus what happened? So you leave,

(32:58):
you think everything's fine. Kansas calland she's referring to Judy Petty as bullshit.
I'll just put that out there thatshe said this Judy Petty bullshit.
Yeah, that's something that really bothersme. She also made a comment in
this text message that said it's asentence it says they don't even truly know

(33:19):
how Judy died. I don't knowwhat that means, but it's kind of
stuck out. So Kim calls herKansas probably two seconds after you leave that
room. What happens. She saidthat her mom called her crying upset that
I came to visit her and Iwas talking about the Judy Petty stuff and

(33:43):
she was very upset. I'm justlike what, Yeah, she was not
upset when I left there. Sofor me, looking at this, you
have a very normal conversation in ahospital with somebody who there was nothing that
would indicate that she was upset,distress, nothing, You leave, and

(34:04):
the first thing Kim does is callher daughter Kansas, and is hysterical.
Hysterical, She's crying. She's soupset about this visit about Judy Petty that
Kansas herself said she needed to calmher mother down for an hour. An
hour as an hour, So Ididn't even it didn't even take me an

(34:25):
hour to get home, first ofall. No, but why does it
take you an hour to calm downyour mother who knows nothing about this case?
Right, this is what I'm talkingabout. This that makes zero sense
to me. None of it makessense to me. No, So that
just proves that they're hiding something.If you know nothing and you know your

(34:50):
family didn't do anything, a normalstandard hospital visit that there was no aggression,
no questioning, no, nothing upsetsyou to the point you have to
call your daughter and your daughter needsto calm you down for an hour.
Yeah, what is that about?I think it's bullshit because I think honestly,

(35:10):
this is just what I think.Maybe I think maybe Kim did call.
Obviously Kim call her, but maybeit wasn't that she called upset.
Maybe she just called and said,hey, you'll never believe who just came
to visit me, and Kansas gotupset. Maybe maybe maybe I don't know.
It's hard till it's hard to tellbecause also Kim won't talk right,

(35:31):
and she's telling you not to talk. So I can see her getting very
emotional about this because I think she'shiding yeah, and Kansas is trying to
hide her. Yes, so we'lltalk about that. She's definitely yeah.
Yeah, So she dies, SoKansas goes off on this tangent about you.
And the other thing I just thoughtof two is during your conversation with

(35:52):
Kim, Kim had mentioned that welied on her right, that she really
wasn't at Kansas's house that day,that we yes, Yeah, she said
that. Okay, So out ofall the things that we've reported on and
have talked about, that's the onething that bothers her. Yes, wasn't
that weird? Yeah? It wasI'm like, okay, that's not a

(36:13):
big deal, right, And Ithink Kansas brought it up as well,
So of you know, my momreally wasn't there and Kim isn't there.
So I'm saying all the other stuffthat we've talked about, your brother and
your son and you and your exhusband, you're not concerned or worried that
we lied about that, But you'resaying you're calling us out because you weren't
there that day. Yeah, anyway, Yeah, no, I get it.

(36:37):
Yeah. So so she says,you know, we're only civil investigators.
I think she continues to miss thepoint that we're working with dog from
the past name. The other thingI found interesting in her in her text
Jennifer was that she said that whatare we going to do anyways? Right
because Billy and Mitchell are both deadthe gist of it, Yeah, yes,

(37:02):
she said that it does that matterif they didn't do anything. Yeah.
I mean that's the thing is thatthat shouldn't even be a topic or
that shouldn't even have been brought uplike that. If you if you know
that, you know, I mean, it's like it's almost like it's just
like, well, I don't knowwhat I'm trying to say, but I
know what I'm trying to say.I get that all the time. I

(37:24):
mean what it sounds like is like, oh, well, they can't do
anything anyway, so why does itmatter? Yeah, it sounds like something
a kid would say to get outof trouble, like why does it matter
now they're dead? Yeah, nothingbad happened. I mean, I don't
know, it's just it's just remindsme of something a kid would say.
Right, But it does matter toJudy and her family. Yes, absolutely

(37:45):
does, So it does matter.It's a great way to try to be
like, well, what's the pointanyway? Right? I look at it
as someone who says that, wellit's been sixteen year comment, same thing.
It doesn't matter. We can stillclose this case, right with enough
evidence of circumstantial evidence is just asstrong as physical so we can build the

(38:07):
case and put enough together where theDA can go the press. King Attorney's
office could say it is most likelya and close it. And the other
thing is if they are so sure, I mean, if they really don't
know anything, and if they trulydon't know anything and they know that their
family member members did not have anythingto do with this, wouldn't as a

(38:31):
person that lives in the community wantto cooperate to clear that so they could
go out and find the actual personthat did it so that it won't happen
again. That'd be logical, Jennifer, that'd be logical. I mean,
I live in this community. Iwould hate for that to happen again.
But then you have to wonder whydon't they And we talked about this so
many times, you and I too, is if you're so confident that they

(38:52):
didn't do it. And again,let me say this, unless you know
who did it or you were there, you cannot say you know for sure
somebody didn't do it. Yeah,you can't. You can believe that all
you want, but until we canprove it, you can't say that that.
You can't say for a fact Iknow right which we're going to talk

(39:13):
about that text that she said.But you can't say that and then think
that's good enough. No, Imean it wouldn't be. No, it's
not. Even if it's no differentthan if those two individuals were still alive
and well today right and they werepeople were pointing at them, they would

(39:34):
still have to be interviewed. Imean, yeah, and they can't be
so you have to go to thenext best thing and if the next best
thing isn't willing to talk at all, that's just not what I don't know.
It's just not what somebody innocent woulddo. And that's where it comes
down to, and you're looking atis it personality? Is it because this
family again has been involved in manydifferent things. Again, I'm not saying

(40:00):
that without facts. I've talked toso many people from Parkersburg are very familiar
with the Right family. So theyhave done things that are illegal. Yeah,
that's what it is. So I'mnot trying to sugarcoat it or make
it sound, you know, worsethan it is. But is it because
that's why they don't want to talk. Well, that has nothing to do

(40:20):
with what we're asking. Yeah,right, I'm not asking, oh,
you sell you know, marijuana backand that I don't care no one.
It doesn't matter. No, Imean, that's been already dealt with and
punished, so it doesn't matter anymore. So they're refusal. They're going to
such links. And the other thingthat I found interesting in her text is

(40:42):
that we don't even know how shedied. Again, that goes back to
my why does that matter? Yeah? Because the whole that's what this whole
thing is about finding out how,why, and who. And we do
know she died before the fire.We know, yeah, yeah, so
you can't die and set the fireyourself, no, and not inhale that

(41:07):
smoke. No. So again wedon't need to know how she died to
be able to prove that this oneperson is you're most likely the killer or
killers, you know. And that'sreally I'm thankful for is that we do
have her liver and that we dohave those levels to show that she was
dead before the fire. And again, Judy hated the seller hated that sticks

(41:32):
out when I heard that, whenI heard that on the podcast, that
stuck out to me, like theone place that she did not want to
go ever as a kid, sheended up there. And how horrible is
that to die in the one placeand set on fire that you were afraid
of. I know, I thinkabout that all the time actually, and
it just sends chills on my Ohgod, I hate that. It's horrible,

(41:55):
and this is why we need tofigure out what happened to her.
She did mention in here that youguys are just trying to find a scapegoat
and follow the case. I don'teven understand that because what is it?
I mean, why what are yougoing to gain from that? Yeah,
so let's talk about that. Soyeah, so what do you think about
that, Jennifer, Given you're apart of this family too, in the

(42:16):
sense of related you're married into,do you think we're trying to find a
scapegoat? No, not at all. There's no point in it. There's
no I mean, you don't wantto accuse somebody that is innocent. I
mean because again, if you accusesomebody that is innocent and alive, the
real person that actually did it couldeither still be out there or dead,

(42:38):
and then it never gets the truthnever comes out. And I would say
in response to that is we haveshown that we're not interested in scapegoating,
because if we were, we wouldstill be looking at Chriscott right right,
Chris Catt right was the number oneguy going into this for fifteen years.

(42:58):
We have moved him down, we'vecleared him, he's cooperated, he's been
in the he sat with us forover two hours. Yeah, it took
us out where. That's cooperation,Kim and Kansas right there. Yeah,
yep. So if we wanted todo a scapegoat, we would still be
focused on Chris Scott, right,and missus Petty has said to us numerous
times, I don't want the wrongperson. Yeah, I want the right

(43:22):
person. I don't ever want toaccuse somebody who didn't do it right.
So interesting Kansas again, and we'rejust trying to figure it out. But
apparently, you know, they're tryingto go to all links to try to
discredit us and what we're doing.I think it's funny that she said,
I don't care what you guys dowith those people. We are having nothing

(43:45):
to do with them. I knowfor a fact my brother did not have
anything to do with it, andI don't believe Bill did either, So
that is just I don't know.I look at a lot. I'm not
good at like reading text or anythingand taking the emotional part of it.
But that just seems to be anodd statement to me. It does,

(44:07):
And I'm so glad you just mentionedthat because if you if you break down
what she said, she is confidentthat Mitchell did not do it, but
not so much. But not somuch, Billy, she says, I
believe right. H So why areyou so confident that Mitchell didn't do it?
But you're not as confident that Billydidn't do it. That's like,

(44:29):
yeah, it's kind of like asa form of admittance to something, yeah
to me, but not going allthe way. But again, she can't
be confident that Mitchell didn't do itunless she knows who did exactly. So
that really stood out to me too, her language, and that shows me
that she knows, she knows something. And I'm gonna just say I don't

(44:53):
I truly don't believe that Kansas hadanything to do with you know, like
actually think she knows what happened andshe is doing the best she can to
protect her family. And I thinkthere's a reason for that. And if
I'm going to just kind of speculate, again, this is just Melissa's thoughts,
nobody else's. I think that Kansasis protecting Kim because she knows exactly

(45:16):
what happened. Kim's using Kansas forher defense, right. But Kansas has
mentioned that, you know, whenKim dies or whatnot, she's going to
get whatever Kim has, whatever thatis. I think that Kansas is well
aware that if Kim goes to jailor gets in trouble or something like that,
that all of Kansas's stuff gets takenaway. And I think that this

(45:40):
family is very greedy. When I'mtalking family, I mean him, Bob,
they are. I've seen it withmy own eyes. Yes, okay,
so I'm not lying on that,I know. Okay. So I
think this is all about what's init for me, what I can gain
and what I don't want to lose. And I think that we're hitting it

(46:01):
on the head. When Kansas isprotecting Kim, it's because she's protecting what
she is going to get. Yeah, because everything I've heard from Kansas or
from about Kim, she was notmother of the Year. Yeah, I
don't. Yeah, I don't know. Kids like shit. According to multiple
people, for Kansas to be goingis protective and as fierce and loving her

(46:23):
mom. I don't think it's becauseshe's mother of the year. Yeah,
I don't know. I don't Andthat's my own opinion. I mean,
that's one thing I can't give anopinion on because I didn't come into the
picture until Kansas was at an adult, So I don't know. They always
seemed there was all every time I'vebeen around them. Like I said,

(46:45):
they were always very friendly, theywere always nice, they were always giving.
It just always seemed an odd,like a just odd element there,
like, especially when Bob was around. There's just something very strange about their
family interaction. And then they're likeweird. I don't know, just some
of the strange stuff that they've said. Yeah, so but anyway, yeah,

(47:07):
and I agree. And when I'vetalked to people, again, this
isn't you know me just kind ofgoing off a women. I've talked to
people who witness firsthand how Kim parented, right, So yeah, I mean,
of course Jennifer can't talk to it. She wasn't around. She doesn't
know that. I can say thatbecause I've talked to many people who witnessed
it and saw it. I meanI had people telling me that Kim had
Mitchell selling weed and middle school whenBob was in prison. Yeah, I've

(47:30):
heard similar things actually, yeah,yeah, So what parent is like,
hey, go do my drug moneyfor me, right while your dad's in
I mean, anyways, so Ithink the relationship is all this whole relationship
between them all is protect your ass, right, and what am I going
to get out of it? Yep, Yeah, that's very typical with some

(47:51):
families. I actually come from afamily that's a lot like that. So
yeah, but I do believe thateven at some level, if they really
didn't know anything, I think thatI have to believe that this particular family
that we're talking about, Bob,Kim, Kansas would actually talk because they
really don't know anything, and theyreally would be like, screw you,

(48:15):
let's answer your questions, you know, right, Like I feel like they
would talk because they talk, theyjust don't want to talk about this,
right, I mean, it wouldbe so much easier just to talk if
there's nothing happening, if nothing's happened, just to talk, get it done,
move on with your life instead ofkeeping it going the way it has.
It just doesn't make it just doesn'tmake sense. No, you know,

(48:37):
Kansas had said, too, right, we're civil investigator. She doesn't
trust us. She thinks I'm arude person. She won't let Kim talk
to me. And so we said, okay, great, we'll have you
talked to Doug, because then what'syour reason then? And so what we
ended up doing was I talked toDoug and I said, listen, Kansas

(49:00):
doesn't think that we're anything. We'recivil investigators, and really there isn't much
we you know we can do becausewe're not cops. And she continues to,
I guess miss the point where we'reworking with you, So can you
swing by her house and talk toher? So Dog was like yeah,
sure, So Dog swings by kansashouse. He goes there twice, leaves
a card, He calls her.Kansas calls back, and she goes on

(49:24):
a long rant about how much shedoesn't like me and like us and the
whole recording that we released and YadA, YadA, YadA, and so he's
just listening, like okay, okay, okay. So he's like, listen,
why don't you just come in andtalk right, Let me talk to
you, Let me talk to yourmom. All of that, and Kansas

(49:45):
kept, you know, waghing backand forth, waghing back and forth.
But what I found really interesting isthat she wouldn't commit to talking to Dog
without talking to Kim first. Soshe said to him, well, maybe
I can talk tonight or the nextday, but I have to talk to
my mom first. Again, right, everyone falling along, Why do you

(50:08):
need to talk to your mom ifyou absolutely know nothing, your family wasn't
involved. Why do we have totalk to mom first? Right, exactly
no reason you like not go tothe bathroom without talking to your mom first.
I mean, what is that about. I think I know what that's
about. But you know, well, I think you can put two and

(50:31):
two together. Yeah, yeah,I mean it's so stupid. I would
not be like, oh, Mom, I need to talk to you before
I can talk to this person aboutsomething that we know nothing about or were
involved. Is that okay with you? That's so silly to me, which
just shows that they know something.Yeah, and have they has Kansas talked

(50:53):
yet? Great question to my knowledge, No, okay. So what she
did was she said, well,I'll call you back, you know,
tonight to talk or tomorrow and talk. And Dog said okay, great,
and then She's like, well youfinally then you know, leave my f
and family alone or whatever. AndDoug's like, if you talk and you
answer questions to you know, ourliking, meaning we don't have any other

(51:16):
follow up questions or avenues, thenyes, we move on. And she
said okay, And then she mentionedabout Kim and said that she was still
in the hospital, she didn't knowwhen she was going to get out,
that it was going to be awhile, and all of that So when
I talked to Dog, I waslike, Okay, that's weird because I

(51:38):
thought she was supposed to get outSeptember first. She was that's what she
told me, right, And he'slike, I don't know, that's you
know, kind of what Kansas said. So of course I reached out to
all the safe Haven crew that Iknow, who then found out, no,
she was released when she was atKansas House. Of course she was.

(51:59):
Of course, what do you thinkabout Jennifer? I mean, Kansas
House is pretty big and old,and it's got a lot of hidden spots
in there, so she's probably hidingI don't know, yeah, or she
doesn't know her mom's there right right? Like can you not find your mom
in your own house that you needto talk to? So I called Dog

(52:19):
back, I you know, senthim attacks. I'm like, listen,
you got she laed you. Kansassays our Kim is there. So again,
why are you lying to a detective, right, a cop who works
with the pros King Attorney's office aboutyour mom still being in the hospital when
she's sitting right there. And Iactually did I mention this to you?

(52:44):
I think I did. Maybe Iactually called the hospital, Yes, and
verified that she was not there,just because I'm a nosy person and I
decided to do that. This iswhy I love you with Jennifer. Listen.
No, So right, So Jennifer'slike, you know, I'll call,
and I'm like great, you know, and I have all these other
people reaching out to their contacts andthey're all writing back, you know,

(53:07):
Nope, she's at Kims. She'sat Kim's. And Jennifer's like, she's
not at the hospital. And I'mlike, my god, why are we
going through these freaking lengths to nothingstuck? And the thing that gets me
about this is the little lies andstuff about that kind of stuff. I
live here. It is very easyto find out, you know, if

(53:30):
somebody's in the hospital or not,especially Shelby. It's a tiny hospital,
I mean tiny. So but doesshe not think like, Okay, well
let me lie to dog about somethingso stupid and minor. That's going to
start out your relationship with him verygood. I mean again, you're claiming
you know nothing about nothing, andyet you're making up these stupid lives?

(53:52):
Are you that? Like? Anyways? I can go on and on about
that. So where we're at rightnow? Where we go from here.
We are pressing on. I mean, missus Petty is out of the hospital.
I will post photos later. Shelooks adorable. I cannot get her
cuteness. Thank you for everyone orderingshirts. Our reward fund is going up

(54:16):
again. This is tax free everyone. So if you can help us bring
some information to us that will helpus, you know, tie this up
with a bow. You know,we can look at you know, getting
you the reward one. I meanI would take seventy five hundred dollars cash,
tax free. I mean Christmas iscommon. I've pays for a cruise.

(54:37):
I don't know, but do theright thing right. I know it's
not about the money, but forsome people it is, and for this
particular family it's money is a bigfactor. So when I say this family,
I'm not talking about Jennifer and Brandon, but I'm talking about the right
family because that's who I'm talking about. I should make that clear. I'm

(54:57):
not talking about it Jennifer. She'sbeen amazing. So you know, we
had the reward and fund. Butagain, I want people to know that
we don't need this murder weapon,or we don't need this physical evidence.
What we can do is we canput enough circumstantial evidence together that would point
to this one person being the mostlikely killer. In my words, if

(55:22):
it's solid enough, we can makeget a conviction on that. So when
I counted up a while ago,I'll have to recount. And I'm just
saying this, Billy had twenty threecircumstantial evidence that puts him in this.
Okay, twenty three. And rememberthe example I gave with all of the
pencils. If you have one pencil, right, and you break it a

(55:45):
circumstantial evidence, it doesn't weigh verymuch in court. One pencil you can
break in half. When I puttwenty three pencils together and tried to break
it, you can't break it.It's a solid it's a solid thing.
So again, and not saying Billydid it, but I do believe that
Billy was either involved right in somelength, or he was the person who

(56:07):
did it. But I know fora fact that him and Bob know exactly
what happened. I do believe thatwith all my heart. And if Mitchell
was involved or not, I thinkit's very likely. So what else,
Jennifer, What else am I forgetting? I don't think anything. That's pretty

(56:27):
much what we're what we've been talkingabout, right, you know, that
was the goal of this today.I mean, I have other things I've
been thinking about, but it's notlike you know about today, so stuff
that's already been talked about. ButI think that's really about it. So
we wanted Jennifer to come on.I you know, the team really appreciates
Jennifer coming on. And again,I thought it was so important for y'all

(56:50):
to hear somebody from within this family, married into this family, who is
doing what she can to help,and all she wants to do is to
figure out what happened to Judy andfor her and Brandon and Lisa and Steve
and should be for Kim. It'slet's figure out who's involved or who's not.
I mean, if Billy didn't doit, great, move them down

(57:10):
the list. But the only waywe can do that is if people cooperate.
So that's really what it comes downto. So yeah, so from
here we'll continue trucking on. Sopeople continue to reach out to me via
Facebook with messages, questions, anythingfrom anything Jennifer and I have talked about
that spark something or you remember something. Please feel free to reach out and

(57:37):
and I guess that's about it.Jennifer, thank you so much. We
appreciate you coming on and for allof you've done, You've been amazing.
And how bad was this, Jennifer? Was it good? It was?
It was fine. I was nervous, but I kind of like started melting
a little bit. So it it'slike a meeting at work when we do

(58:00):
our teams meetings, so it's notmuch different than that. I've gotten a
lot of my coworkers interested in thiscase that they're following now, so that's
very helpful, I think. Andgood. Yeah, the more we share
Judy's case via Facebook, our shirts, anything we can do flyers. I
know that Petty sisters have been outand about Oh I will mention this too

(58:21):
real quick. I always say something, so that the Petty family have been
out and about putting up flyers everywhere. And what's interesting is the flyer that
they keep putting out at Piggy Wiggly, which is one of the stories that
Judy went to that morning, keepsgetting ripped down. M's odd. It
is very odd who rips down aflyer. That's something that might want to

(58:44):
be Heck, I might just postmyself there for a week to see that
happen, right right, like,well, all of a sudden it's being
gone. So that's weird. Itis so like who takes the time to
do that? And the other thingthat was really odd back in two thousand
and eight, when the Petty familywere putting flyers all out by the farm

(59:04):
on the posts everywhere. Someone wouldgo by and not ripped on the flyer,
they would take the bottom number whereit's the phone number to call.
What. I haven't even heard ofthat really, So somebody took the time
to rip the bottom of the flyerwith the phone number that you could call
instead of tearing down the full flyer. M And I'm like, okay to

(59:30):
me, that says that somebody obviouslyisn't a rush, but they kept the
photo up. Why but they justdon't want somebody to call. You took
the time just to take off thephone number. I would be more than
happy to put flyers out at thebottom of our driveway. Yeah, load
them up, Load them up.So we're gonna be hopefully back in Parkersburg,

(59:52):
you know soon. I'm glad thatwe didn't have to make a trip
with missus Patty. She's doing well, but we are looking at wanting to
come back, of course, becausewhen we're there we always learn more,
we meet more people, and there'smore avenues for us to explore. So
more to come on that, butJennifer, I thank you for taking your
Saturday so you'll walk talk with me, and I guess that's it for now.

(01:00:15):
Okay, all right, well,thank you for having me. I
really appreciate it. Okay, takecare, okay, bye bye U