November 7, 2023 • 46 mins
In this second episode; Justin and Melissa discuss the call that the team has had for six months. After this, it'll help you understand why the team went the route they did, when it comes to people of interest.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome back to this latest episode.It's safe Haven. I'm one of your
hosts, Justin, and I justwanted to say a few words before we
get started with this episode. So, after the part one of this episode,
we did get information and evidence thatproves LN Right was not involved with
(00:23):
Judy's murder, and I just wantedto take the time to point that out.
And the reason I do is becauseinstead of clipping out the parts where
this person mentions LN being involved,we wanted to play the call in its
entirety, so that information was leftin there, but we wanted to put
(00:45):
out something before the episode that kindof says, hey, after that first
part one, we did get informationand evidence that says LN is not involved.
Thank you for joining us. Thisis the call Part two here on
the safe Haven Podcast. Any namesmentioned should not be considered as suspects unless
(01:08):
officially stated as such by law enforcement. Any opinions during interviews on this podcast
are the opinions of the interviewee anddon't reflect the opinions of the safe Haven
Podcast or the AMU Cold Case Team. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty in
a court of law. When Billymentioned that they took the tractor up there?
(01:45):
How did they get up there?Fridwayau they left prodway from where from
one? That's pretty bad. Andthe tractor, do you mean like an
actual tractor or an ATV or thatcould have been just about that could have
been an ATV or anything to thateffect, because I don't know how the
(02:06):
road would have been up there.I don't have no idea. I know
what's back when I was in highschool and stuff, and they always parked
at the bottom of the hill andwalked up their packed her groceries and everything
up up to hill. I don'tknow. It's almost a three quarters a
mile up that mountain. It's prettygood distant m there. So one of
(02:27):
the great things about this clip thatI liked is really talking about how they
got Judy up to the farm,because we've always kind of wondered. Chris
draps her off, he says,and his repildit is that she was fine.
Dropped her off. She was fine, this person says. Billy says
that they brought her up off ofRoute thirty one, which is right out
(02:50):
by the driveway. What do youthink about that? We look back at
this phone call and it's just thespecifics of the information that it to me
every single time, like this personwas not there. This person has no
idea who Judy even is, butstill is able to corroborate specific information.
(03:15):
That's personally. A lot of whatI take from it was just the detail
of what he's saying, and Ioften, you know, the one thing
that I took from that clip aswell, is that this person asked,
Billy, were you there? Wereyou involved? Billy didn't deny it,
and he didn't, you know,say yeah, So so I feel like
(03:38):
he was not comfortable. He wenthalfway. So I do believe that he
was present. I do believe heObviously this caller as well, this person
believes he knew a lot more,and he says that that Billy was not
telling him everything. And I thinkthat has to do with comfort. You
know that you're ashamed or Billy knewJudy. She you know, they grew
(04:00):
up together. So whatever happened,well we know what happened, but it
weighs on Billy, and so Idon't think he wanted to talk about the
specific details. But Billy himself didsay, hell no, I wasn't there.
This is just what I heard.Again, Billy brought this conversation up
to this person. Yes, absolutely, Billy knows and this Billy knows what
(04:27):
happened. Yeah, he knew whathappened. Yeah, And that was a
good point that you brought up,is the fact that I think Billy didn't
want to be the bad guy,but he still wanted to say what was
going on, whether a wait onhim, whatever the reasons might be.
(04:47):
Again, you pointed out that Billybrought up the conversation. He started just
going and when we talked to thisperson initially, I mean we he even
asked this person, Hey, whydidn't you tell somebody about this? What
they said made perfect sense after wegot in depth, especially with Doug on
(05:14):
the phone call. But it's justa very revealing part of the phone call.
I think it is personally because youget a little bit of insight from
the person who got the information andthey're they're questioning it too. Yeah,
they're like, why you know,why were you there? Like what did
you do? And Billy never deniesit, but he never says that he
was involved. But you know thathe knows what happened. Yes, yes,
(05:40):
And that's that's the part that getsto me. The most Yeah,
and that's why I think that thisinformation of why this why our team has
gone in this direction is you cannothave all of these things and not have
it be true. Absolutely. Thisjust again shows that Billy himself doesn't say
I wasn't there, I wasn't involved, right, He doesn't say that,
(06:01):
and I think he would say that. I think that he was getting so
nervous and this was stressing him out, and there was a lot of things
going on. He was about tocome into a lot of money. Who
knows if this isn't being held overhis head. You give so much money.
And based on what we know aboutKim and this clip, this person
also mentions Kim again and talks abouthow she is in charge right and she's
(06:28):
calling the shots, and so thisgoes back to again Kim not wanting to
talk Kim Y, you know,telling other people not to talk to us,
being protected by Kansas. This personsix months ago was and the way
she acted is talking to Jennifer notto interrupt them. But yeah, when
Jennifer was talking about her mannerisms andthe way she acted. After I re
(06:50):
listened to this phone call, relistened to that, I was like,
man, like if people only understoodwhere we were coming from, and now
we have an opportunity to let peopleknow where we were coming from. Now
you guys see what's going on andwhy we went the direction we went with
(07:15):
the tractor? Whose tractor or aTV? Would that have been? Well,
Billy had a TV and Billy hada tractor. Billy had both,
he had ATV or he had fourwillers and he had a tractor. I
don't you know. And he didn'tsay when talking if she was alive when
they took her up there. Yeah, I think Billy said was he went
(07:38):
to the bar and went in thebar, took her there. That was
always it. That was it.They went up there with the tractor and
they killed her and burned her upin the corner. He kept calling to
the corner when he's saying they whodo you think he's referring to Mitchell and
Johnny and whoever was up there doingwhatever it is they were doing. And
(08:01):
they had to you know, theyburned her up inside and they added to
it had covered up somehow, andthat would have been Lawn and john and
Bob because Mitchell, I don't thinkyou know, it would have the sense
of doing stuffing. I mean,he might have the sense that he might
have not the sense, but hemight have the encouragement to, you know,
(08:22):
to get violent and kill her.But then, oh, now what
do I do? That's my opinion, Well, now what do I do?
And the job that you're talking aboutis John Bright? Correct from Lawn's
brother Lawn and then John. Ithink they're real close to the They're real
close to the same age, liketwo or few years apart or whatever.
(08:43):
Then you got another one, andthen you got Bob, which is the
baby. I think the one thingabout that clip that I don't fully agree
with, and I understand, youknow, we put a lot of steak
in this in this phone call,actually both phone calls. Don't I just
don't see Judy going into that bar. I really don't. I mean,
(09:07):
I could see her getting picked upin a situation where she's in a vehicle
where people are at that bar,or had to stop at that bar while
she's in the vehicle. By justI have a hard time seeing her walking
into a bar. Yeah, yeah, And you know, and I think
later on I do ask that question. Two is we've talked to so many
(09:31):
people and she was never in thebar, and what was specified was Billy
said, Well, she wasn't inthe bar. Whoever she came with was
in the bar. But even thatI can't wrap my head around because when
we look at the timeline and welook at everything, how does Chris pick
her up walking towards the farm whichis opposite of the bar. Yeah,
(09:58):
she was picked up and taken tothe bar. So how does that all
come together? And the only thingI can think of, again, if
anybody was there, if anybody knowsanything, let us know. But the
only we have that gap of time, right, and the gap is kind
of closed, yes, because Chris, I think, is off honest time.
(10:18):
But even so, I don't seeJudy getting in the car with somebody.
Well I can't say that anymore becauseshe got in the car with Chris,
who she didn't know. But Icould see Judy get in the car
with Billy if Billy was going tothe bar. But I don't even know
if I believe that, because Billywas different a little bit, didn't have
(10:41):
the best hygien But maybe they maybethat was the the familiarity, you know,
like they knew each other. Shemight have felt, you know,
somewhat relaxed or safe or whatever thecase might be. Maybe it was that,
But then how do you get herthen leaving the bar and Chris picks
her up. The only situation thatI could think of personally is if that
(11:07):
person she was with or supposedly with, went into the bar and they were
in there for an extended period oftime to where she got tired of waiting
and she decided to walk, Yeah, and just say screw, I'm going
to get out. I'm going towalk the rest of the way home.
They can sit in there for howeverlong they want. Yeah, but that's
(11:28):
that's just my personal speculation. Yeah, And that's the thing I we're kind
of going back and forth on,right because we I do believe there's a
lot of details in this call.I do believe what this person is saying
that Billy said, this is onething I cannot figure out or section And
there's always something right that doesn't makesense in any case that you're just like,
(11:48):
I don't know if that fits anything. And well, I remember at
the beginning it was Chris and histime, Yes, that timeline and it
and but as soon as we gotthat case while and saw that there were
witness statements that corroborated her path oftravel in the timeframe. We're like,
all right, good, Like thisdoes make sense now she did it?
(12:11):
Yeah, and I do think that. Christopher de said, yeah, I
are at the bar if she camein. I do believe that. But
then then when I asked that question, this person was like, no,
Billy says she wasn't in the bar. She was outside with whoever she came
with. Why is she outside?So then into my head, I'm thinking,
Okay, did she walk get aride, go to the bar and
(12:35):
be like I don't want to goin. Yeah, I'm leaving. I'm
going to go walk to the farm. And then they're realizing, shit,
she's going up to the farm.Chris picks her up. I mean he
had he was at the bar.No, that's kind of where I'm at.
Thought, Yeah, I'd be curiousif anyone has any thoughts on this,
(12:58):
because yeah, I can't put ittogether yet, and we know Billy
was at the bar. He wasat the bar all the time. We
do know, And I've talked topeople who said, yeah, there was
drugs moving out of Reese's store andthe bar from the Right family so is
this all connected. I don't know, but clearly Judy crossed the paths with
(13:22):
these individuals, and Billy obviously saidthat this is what happened. So I
just can't wrap my head around it. No, I agree, And I
just asked people to keep in mind, you know, we're not saying Billy
is innocent in this, because hecould have been putting himself outside of the
(13:43):
situation as an outsider who just knewinformation. But and in reality, he
just didn't want to be the badguy to have any fault on his shoulders
while he's saying everything. So justkeep that in the back of your mind
into Yeah, it's always like youknow, when people go halfway with professions,
they want to put a lot ofdistance between themselves in the crime,
(14:07):
right, But as you continue toquestion, they continue to put themselves closer.
And it could be And I knowwe've talked about this as a team
before. Did Judy get in thecar with Billy because she was exhausted,
she was tired, and he cameupon her first. She knows him,
even given all the charistics, right, she was like, okay, He's
(14:28):
like, well, I'm going togo to the bar. Maybe she has
to go to the bathroom. She'sdiabetic, so we're thinking, well,
that kind of makes sense, right, But she didn't go into the bar.
Maybe she got there and was likethis doesn't feel right, I'm just
gonna go walk. But again,I think Chris would have said, well,
maybe christ and theer because she didn'tgo in the bar. That's but
(14:50):
I could go round and round onthis. I just don't know, oh,
sure of information as to why Billysaid this. Better know why.
I'm right on board with you forthe listeners. We are commentating as we
go. We have certain time stampsand we're reviewing them and going over them,
so it's hard to remember, youknow the specific details of each time
(15:11):
stamp, but it just goes backto our previous conversation a few minutes ago.
One of the specific things in thatconversation is this person doesn't deny that
Billy didn't know Judy. This personvery familiar, like, yeah, Billy
knew everybody. I mean, that'sjust kind of his personality. So it
(15:31):
wasn't discounting that Judy wouldn't get inthe car with Billy. So again,
it's just kind of wondering where thisbar comes into play, and I'm just
it's frustrating. I just don't understandit. It is and you can we
can sit here and go rounds andspend an hour speculating on that whole specific
(15:56):
scenario. But I think at theend of the day, what it comes
down to, like the brass tacksof the specific information that's being provided that
correlates with information that we have thatis not public, along with you know,
some of our certain theories and stufflike that. In the end result,
(16:17):
unfortunately, is the same. Itis. It's just those little details
that sometimes you just never get andwe just may never know. And Billy
didn't elaborate unfortunately, So it makesyou again wonder did he just make that
up? Did he not know?Why wouldn't he go into more detail about
that, and you know, sayingthey they so yeah, and you can
(16:41):
tell this person was trying to askmore information, definitely, but Billy was
just kind of going around it andjust trying to tell the full story.
So yeah, you know, myhat's off to this to this caller and
the person who provided us with thisinfo, because like, we get it,
you know, we were asking thesame things. But you know,
(17:06):
it is what it is. Goon to what we got. Kimberly is
here. We played if you need, if you you know, but I
you can you right now you haveto point of Howard to Howard for her
in order to talk to those things. He pam just for the listeners,
Melissa snipped out this ten second clip, like fifteen seconds. She's like,
(17:30):
I can't remember exactly why this wassuper important, but it's only ten seconds
or fifteen seconds. And we justplayed it because, like I said,
there's a lot of time stamps,a lot to keep, a lot to
keep track of. And as soonas I heard that, I remember listening
to this just reviewing it a coupleof weeks ago, and when I heard
(17:52):
that, that's when I texted Melissaand was like, oh shit, this
is where he straight up corroborated whatwe've experienced for the last six months.
And it was total foreshadowing on thisperson's part. That one gets me because
it was complete that you got.He's got to remember this call was before
(18:15):
Bill Mitchell and to our radar,before we even started doing episodes about Billy
and Mitchell and the information that wereceived from these calls. Yes, yes,
So it was so funny because becauseI really was like, I know
what this was justin it's like tenseconds. I'm like, because he's telling
me, oh, it's ten seconds, I'm like, I don't do math,
(18:36):
but okay, and so I'm like, I don't remember what it is
because I listened to this like lastweekend or something and put all these times
to SAMs down. So I takea drink as we're listening, and then
I almost spit it out because Iwas like, that's the clip. I
mean, holy shit for us,because if everyone's been following along, Kim
has been everything buck cooperative. Buthe also saying she's the weakest link,
(19:02):
which I find so interesting because who'sprotecting Kim from talking? Yeah, anybody?
And this person even says you're gonnahave to point out how Witzer at
her to get her to talk.Yes, just the accuracy of it all.
I mean it's spot on, becausenobody will let us get to camp
(19:22):
or to get to Kim. Imean, Kansas like blocked Jennifer right away,
Like how dare you right? Everyoneis like shielding Kim and this person's
like, she's your weakest link.She will talk, she will talk,
So people aren't going to allow youto talk to her and what are here?
We are I was a best car? Yes, it was, it
(19:48):
was. That was one of theone of the ones that text to you
about. It was like, oh, there's golden here that we totally forgot
about. That actually played out,yes the way the caller said. It
was yes, yes, months ago, yes, before we even yeah.
And that shows this person has informationand knows that is already saying listen,
(20:10):
Kim ain't going to talk to you. She's the weakest link. But other
people are going to protect her sothat she doesn't talk to you, because
she will talk if she feels likeshe's cornered. Absolutely, okay, Kim
and Bob and Mitchell. Bob firstof all is affiliated with all of the
little Right Family Dinner with Lawn andJohn and Rich which died. But they
(20:33):
all were affiliated with a thing calledmethanphetamine, and they all do their own
little and they have her own littlegang of stuff that goes on into little
bar up Street by the Rusia's storeand long Wright runs it, and they
all do all this stuff. Andthey were involved somehow, I don't know
(20:56):
how. Billy and Mitchell emberly Sonand the Johnny which was a relative of
Mitchell whereas they were doing the methamphetaminething in the that had a auction house.
Well well yeah, yeah, Andfor the listeners, that was from
(21:19):
the original phone call with just thisperson and Melissa. Again you heard it
corroborated earlier on which was in thesecond phone call. But yeah, they
laid it out. Yeah. Andwhat was interesting about this this first call
with this person was that he didspecifically mention Reese store and also the bar.
(21:41):
So we just kind of are goingback again. Like I said,
this person the multiple times I talkedto this person was saying the same information.
Anytime you get close to anybody downthere, you will be putting your
life a danger. And the sheriff, which was the sheriff that looked up
the street, well he's a watchdogfor them all, any of them getting
(22:06):
any trouble with their first person theycalled. He's the first person that covers
up stuff and things like this.The reason I noticed information was because Billy
told me all about the situation infifteen and a week later he was dead.
That clip when I first heard it, because again this is the first
phone call we got. It struckme because I know how these situations work,
(22:36):
we're and we're always cautious. We'realways cautious. And what made me
worry when we heard that was thefact that we were planning a trip going
back out there. And I wasmore concerned for your safety above anybody else's
because between me, Jen and Allenand even George for that matter, I
(22:59):
feel comfortable in a situation like that. And that's no offense to you,
Melissa, Please don't take it asthat. But I was more concerned,
like when I heard that, becauseI was like, man, Melissa's gonna
Melissa is gonna freak out. ButI mean, when we go out there,
we do have enough support. Wedon't really have to concern ourselves with
(23:22):
any any of this type of stuff. Like everybody in law enforcement knows where
we're going, where we're gonna be, So it's it's just a matter of
are you going to be dumb enoughto try to do something to us?
Yeah, exactly, Well that wasmy whole thing. Yeah, And it
was a little again because we againhave not investigated the rights, We didn't
have much information on them. Weare already planning a trip and if you
(23:45):
remember, for our listeners, weactually delayed our trip due to this phone
call because we actually wanted to getmore information before we showed up, So
we actually delayed our trip to alater time period so that we could have
the support because Doug was actually notgoing to be in town. So due
to that as well, we didn'twant to go without Doug. I obviously
(24:08):
shared this information with Doug and hegot very concerned for me because I'm very
much a pitbull, if you will, and I like continue to go after
and talk to people and like I'lldo it on my own or whatever,
and then then you know, Doug'slike, you know, and so when
we heard this call, I waslike, I got worried, and Doug's
like, hold on a minute,Hold on a minute, you know.
(24:30):
So he wanted to be there becausehe wanted to ensure that the team was
safe. Because of course when youhear anything like this, this person was
warning us that you don't want tomess with the right family. So then
of course I'm talking with Doug sharingthis information. Are you familiar with this
family? Who are they? What'sgoing on? Doug was the Drug Force
(24:52):
go to person back in two thousandand eight. He didn't know this family,
He didn't know their name. Andthat could because it was small time
stuff, right or not on hislevel of what he was working on.
But that was obviously an initial concernfor us when we heard this information.
And why this person did not contactlaw enforcement when he heard this information from
(25:15):
Judy was the fear of the RightsAnd I've heard that many times. I
want to stay anonymous. I don'twant my information out there because I don't
trust them. They are vindictive,YadA YadA, YadA. Well, I'll
be honest. They can come outto my neck in the woods anytime they
want. So, yeah, Imean when we got that kind of I
(25:37):
took it as obviously very seriously atfirst. This is the first time I'm
hearing like, who, how arethese people of? Why is someone so
afraid of them? So we haveher walking on Old Saint Mary's Pike and
Littell Creek. I wondered if shedidn't show up at the sundown to like
take a break, she was diabetic? Was she tired to ship to go
to the bathroom? But we youknow, can't anybody to confirm she was
(26:00):
in the bar. But of courseas she was, they're not going to
say yes, did you say thatthe Rights owned the sundown bar. No,
oh no, they run all thedrug in and out of like two
or three bars. Now there's there'stwo or three bars that they did that
in. And also the auction house. They would sell the methamphetamine and stolden
(26:22):
property at the auction house, andBilly wanted to stop it, and two
weeks later he did through the concessionstand. They were sewing it through the
concession stand. Okay, so that'swhere I'm wondering. Okay, anything else
that like Billy could tell you about. Was he with Mitchell when this happened
(26:44):
to Judy? He didn't say hewas there, And I asked him several
times, did you do this?Was you there? He did not confirm
that he was there, but hedidn't say no. He didn't say yes,
and he didn't say no. SoI have to say that maybe he
was affiliated somehow. I don't know. Maybe the rights took him up there
later on, because that's where youknow, he knew more about the farm
(27:07):
than most people because he was upthere several times. From my understand but
I really don't know that for afact. But he did confirm that Mitchell
and john and Bob Wright and JohnnyWright was all there. Did Billy say
how they got up the driveway?He said, they took a tractor up
(27:30):
there. They said they took atractor up there. That's what he said.
He didn't say what kind of hedidn't, you know he was he
was not real loucid with me.He just said they took it. We
took a tractor up there, sohe might have been there. Did he
say how she, how Judy was, or what was going on or anything?
Did he hear any details about it? No? No, I did
(27:52):
not, No, I did not. I just heard that, you know
all. He told me that theythey they did it and they killed her
and a cooked her in the corntrip that's what he said, okay,
And no reason for why they killedher, just they had her. And
he told me that she knew informationabout what they were doing from intown from
apparently there was something went on intown, he told me, And she
(28:15):
found out that who and who andwhat was doing want and they found out
about it and that's why they killedher. That they were making math maybe
on their property. I do notknow that that was not told to me.
But I wouldn't put her to passthem. I would not put her
to pass them because a lot ofempty places out there, they could do
cook whatever they wanted to do atany place, right and that and that's
(28:36):
what you know, I'm wondering isif did she come upon you know,
that happening. But from what Billy'saccount was that she was out at the
Sundowners and then they went from there. Correct, That's what I was told,
because something went on in town andshe found out maybe they she found
out in town that they were cookingit out there. And I don't know.
I don't know that well. Andso you know, the other possibility
(29:00):
we're looking at, is it possiblethat when they dropped her off, Chris
Cutwright, who did work out atSundowners and part of that whole scene,
you know, maybe he called somebodywho said, hey, she's up there.
I don't really know that because Idon't know any of that. That
part of that. I just knowedwhat I was told. As Ally also
(29:21):
got to understand that the Rights havea little funny scheme goes on what they
don't keep anything in the house.They keep it in their so called let's
see a chicken cooper whatever it isoutside, it's an outbuilding outside they keep
everything in the outbuildings so that wayif they do get That's what the sheriff
told them that if it's not inthe house, then we can't seize your
(29:44):
property. But if it's outside,then you can claim that somebody else's.
And that's what they do. Theystore the stuff outside, all the stolen
property and the maths and the drugsand all the guns and all the other
guardians and their little chicken coops outsideand the outbuildings outside of their property,
outside of the main living house,main living, main dwelling. And that's
what they were told by the sheriff. If you keep it out there,
(30:10):
then we don't have to seize yourproperty or your house. Your house is
not in danger because if it's beenit's where you can say somebody else put
it there and you didn't know anythingabout it. Just don't lock the building.
That makes sense. We're planning atrip trip back to Parkersburg to relook
at everything again. Did Billy sayhow they killed her? Uh no,
(30:33):
he just said that she did.She was dead and they burned her in
the corn prip That's all she said. He didn't say nothing else about what,
how, what's going on? Hejust said, who was there and
they cooked her in the corn prop? Is that do you mean by that?
Do you mean the seller? Well, they had they had outbuildings,
There was places where they would keepdifferent things, and you know he called
(30:56):
he called things different stuff and Idon't know, but wherever it was was
an underground facility where they course shewas found. It was down underground and
he called it the cornprip. WhatI find interesting is this person goes into
a little bit more information that accordingto this person, Billy had said that
the Rights were dealing method but Imean different drugs through different bars and the
(31:19):
auction house. So again it seemslike the Resa store, the Sundonners is
a location where this was going on. And we do know that Chris Cuttwright
was a frequent flyer at the SundoonnerBar. We know that Billy was there
a lot. I have heard thatMitchell and John would show up from time
(31:40):
to time. So it just showsthat there's this inner circle of things going
on and it's struggle related. Wasthere anything else in that clip that you
wanted to talk about? Not really, just the fact that, again when
we asked questions that were not trueor not right this person corrected us.
(32:02):
Yes, Like when you went andasked, okay, so the rights own
that bar, this person was like, no, No, they didn't own
the bar. They just ran drugsout of it, and they ran drugs
out of the other ones. Andit's little things like that that people,
I think need to recognize. Yeah, and this person too would say I
(32:23):
don't know that Billy did say thatand over and over again, which helps
me believe, like we talked about, this person isn't adding anything more to
what Billy said or didn't say.If Billy didn't specify. This person saying
I don't know. So I thinkthat really again helps show that this is
(32:44):
really what Billy had said to thisperson. Correct all right, So I
think that's it. Well, Melissa, what do you think about all that?
I think this is great. I'mactually really excited for the listeners to
hear this episode so that they canbe caught up or know what we have
been looking at for the last fewmonths and understanding the strategies, what we've
(33:08):
been going through, why we've beenfocusing on the rights, why we've been
wanting to talk to Kim, whywe've been doing the things that we've been
doing is when you hear this,there's a lot of specific details that were
provided by Billy to this person thathe trusted. I could not agree more.
It's the one thing that got mein the group. Somebody said,
(33:32):
oh, this is just a witchhunt, It's like, you know what,
you might want to look up thedefinition, because this is not a
witch hunt at all. We havereasons for what we do and who we
want to talk to and why,and just because we don't disclose those reasons
doesn't mean we're just throwing out baselessaccusations or speculations. These two phone calls
(33:59):
right here are why we went thedirection we did. And I'll be honest
with you, Melissa, you knowas well as I do. Billy was
at the top of the list fromday one, and we moved him down
the list after, you know,we found out about Chris and we started
getting into things more. You guyshave to realize, as listeners, this
person has never heard this podcast.They have no idea what's going on with
(34:22):
this now. As soon as thisperson picked up the phone or answered the
call, they just started going intoit. Yes, and it was like,
holy shit, Okay, we haveto go in this direction. Now,
So for those of you who areyou know, trying to accuse us
(34:44):
of this and that and throw aroundaccusations about us harassing you and you're gonna
sue us and all this dumb shit. We have reasons for what we do,
and I'm glad that the listeners havean ey opportunity to listen to some
of the information that we have hadand we've been sitting on for like six
(35:06):
months, and why we went thedirection we went right, and like we
said before, it gives Billy avoice and a lot of people have said,
well, Billy's escapegoat. And Imentioned this with Jennifer in our last
episode, is if we were interestedin scapegoating, we would have still been
on Chris cut right, But we'renot, oh for sure, And he's
(35:28):
the easiest one and the rights tome, given what Billy himself has said
very specific information, have been justfine with Cris being this scapegoat for fifteen
years. Oh, they're fine,of course now that we're looking and saying,
listen, this is what Billy's saying, that Mitchell killed Judy and you're
all involved. Now it's an issue, so it's just part of the investigation
(35:52):
process. But I am so gladto be at this point. I think
we've made a tremendous on a progressin the year and a half almost that
we've been on Judy's case and bringingnames that have never been mentioned in details
that have never been mentioned before.And it makes sense if you're dealing with
(36:13):
a cop who was familiar with thefamily, Absolutely, and that cop was
the first one to divert attention whenwe originally talked to him. And that's
again another thing with this phone call, when that got brought up, it
goes back to, oh shit,that makes sense. You know. It's
(36:35):
with unsolved cases, it's like puttingpuzzle pieces together. It is, you
have certain sections that are whole,and you have all those missing parts,
and as you go along, aftermonths or weeks, whatever the case might
be, you start filling in thosesections with information and then hopefully one day
you get a complete picture. Andthat's what we all strive for. Absolutely.
(36:59):
I can almost guarantee the intelligent onesare going to be right on board
with us, because I can almostguarantee. This is why I don't comment
very much in the group, becauseI'm a very brash individual, so I'm
sure the dumb ones will we'll swoopin there and like, oh, this
(37:19):
person's full of shit or blah blahblah. And it's what you have to
realize is this person provided us withthis information that is not public before we
made some of this information public toyou the listeners. Yeah, and what's
interesting is this person had no ideaabout Judy's investigation, no idea, don't
(37:42):
live in the area, has noidea, has no stake in the game,
if you will. Again, it'snot Billy's ex, you know,
it wasn't anybody with that, butthis is a trusted person in Billy's life
and so they had no reason tolie. And it just it just goes
to show that this is what Billyhas said to this person again putting himself
(38:05):
there having knowledge of the information,and it's it's super important that we put
this out to everybody so you canunderstand our methods and why we do what
we do. So I'm happy withwhere we're at. It's ultimately at this
point up to the investigative authorities toget him to talk. And you know,
(38:28):
she's obviously not going to talk tous. It's a sad reality of
the situation. We our job isto exhaust every resource that we have to
find out the truth, whether thattruth. And we all know I love
the Petty family. You love thePetty family, but we told them from
(38:50):
day one our job is to findthe truth, whether you know it's what
you want to hear or not.I think that we've come a long way
in the fact that you know,we keep it real with them, Marvin
and Kelly. I talked to Kellymore than anybody. Obviously, she's the
one who submitted the case to us. She's very, very involved. But
(39:14):
when we actually go there, Italked to Marvin more than anybody. No,
you get you well, I do. I do love me some joan
time. I'm not gonna lie.And they're just the side by side comparisons
between them and my grandparents who arestill alive. We all have an amazing
(39:37):
relationship with the Petties. And Iknow that many people have commented a sudden
message of they have without getting emotional. They have touched the lives of so
many listeners that when Mom Patty wassick and going under very risky surgery,
(39:57):
I had so many message of Iwoke up and I was like, of
her, did she is everything Okay, Like, she's the first thing I
thought of. I'm so invested inthis family. I love them, and
I'm from a different state, andthat just goes to show the reach that
this family has. And so atsome point, you know, we do
recognize that we're not law enforcement.We can't go arrest him. We can't
(40:21):
bring her in to question her.As much as we'd love to, we
can't, and that's that's up tothe authorities. And so that's, you
know, a topic for another day. But we do love the Patties and
I hope to see them soon.And Mom Patty's doing amazing. She commented
on my Facebook yesterday and I waslike, I mean she mentioned me.
(40:45):
She put up posted of me andmy daughter at the Taylor Swift concert last
night. Hey, everyone goes tosee Taylor starting the concert. It was
amazing the movie theater for us poorfolk who can't go. And she's like,
oh, is this a sweet picture? And I was like, anyway,
So that's our episode for this week. We've been super excited about this
(41:06):
one and we hope you all enjoyedit, and we'll be back with another
episode coming soon. Anything else,trusted, No, just I encourage people
to still join the Facebook group ifyou're I would assume you're not a newer
listener by now if you've gotten thisfar in the podcast. But just know,
(41:27):
stay subscribed. If you do likethe podcast, rate and review it.
That helps us get found by otherpeople, and that helps Judy get
found by other people who might notbe listening. And just share it.
And it's never been about us.It's always been about Judy. And the
more people that know about Judy's case, the better. And I stress that
(41:49):
enough. Yes, yeah, justhelp us get the word out. And
like I said, I know alot of you are coming from my podcast,
my other podcast that have been followedthis case, and I can't stress
enough, like share it, youknow, people who are into true crime,
long form investigative podcasts share the podcast. But other than that, no,
(42:12):
I just like to thank everybody forsticking in with us. And we're
not done yet, so don't beunsubscribing or anything. Never never more stuff
coming. So yeah, and I'vehad so many people message me from Hey,
my true crime loves that I metin the line. They have binge
our whole season. Are they good? Yes? Good? And people are
(42:32):
like I'm off the wine line.Yes, hey, wine line line,
and so they have blessed me,like I'm all kind up. We had
a couple of people order shorts fromCrime come out. Yeah I saw that.
Yeah, so hey my wine lineand it was so much fun.
But all right, well Melissa,it's been a good time, and all
you listeners out there, thank youfor following along. Again. I imagine
(42:58):
a lit'll see you on the nextone. La Na
Welcome back to this latest episode.It's safe Haven. I'm one of your
hosts, Justin, and I justwanted to say a few words before we
get started with this episode. So, after the part one of this episode,
we did get information and evidence thatproves LN Right was not involved with
(00:23):
Judy's murder, and I just wantedto take the time to point that out.
And the reason I do is becauseinstead of clipping out the parts where
this person mentions LN being involved,we wanted to play the call in its
entirety, so that information was leftin there, but we wanted to put
(00:45):
out something before the episode that kindof says, hey, after that first
part one, we did get informationand evidence that says LN is not involved.
Thank you for joining us. Thisis the call Part two here on
the safe Haven Podcast. Any namesmentioned should not be considered as suspects unless
(01:08):
officially stated as such by law enforcement. Any opinions during interviews on this podcast
are the opinions of the interviewee anddon't reflect the opinions of the safe Haven
Podcast or the AMU Cold Case Team. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty in
a court of law. When Billymentioned that they took the tractor up there?
(01:45):
How did they get up there?Fridwayau they left prodway from where from
one? That's pretty bad. Andthe tractor, do you mean like an
actual tractor or an ATV or thatcould have been just about that could have
been an ATV or anything to thateffect, because I don't know how the
(02:06):
road would have been up there.I don't have no idea. I know
what's back when I was in highschool and stuff, and they always parked
at the bottom of the hill andwalked up their packed her groceries and everything
up up to hill. I don'tknow. It's almost a three quarters a
mile up that mountain. It's prettygood distant m there. So one of
(02:27):
the great things about this clip thatI liked is really talking about how they
got Judy up to the farm,because we've always kind of wondered. Chris
draps her off, he says,and his repildit is that she was fine.
Dropped her off. She was fine, this person says. Billy says
that they brought her up off ofRoute thirty one, which is right out
(02:50):
by the driveway. What do youthink about that? We look back at
this phone call and it's just thespecifics of the information that it to me
every single time, like this personwas not there. This person has no
idea who Judy even is, butstill is able to corroborate specific information.
(03:15):
That's personally. A lot of whatI take from it was just the detail
of what he's saying, and Ioften, you know, the one thing
that I took from that clip aswell, is that this person asked,
Billy, were you there? Wereyou involved? Billy didn't deny it,
and he didn't, you know,say yeah, So so I feel like
(03:38):
he was not comfortable. He wenthalfway. So I do believe that he
was present. I do believe heObviously this caller as well, this person
believes he knew a lot more,and he says that that Billy was not
telling him everything. And I thinkthat has to do with comfort. You
know that you're ashamed or Billy knewJudy. She you know, they grew
(04:00):
up together. So whatever happened,well we know what happened, but it
weighs on Billy, and so Idon't think he wanted to talk about the
specific details. But Billy himself didsay, hell no, I wasn't there.
This is just what I heard.Again, Billy brought this conversation up
to this person. Yes, absolutely, Billy knows and this Billy knows what
(04:27):
happened. Yeah, he knew whathappened. Yeah, And that was a
good point that you brought up,is the fact that I think Billy didn't
want to be the bad guy,but he still wanted to say what was
going on, whether a wait onhim, whatever the reasons might be.
(04:47):
Again, you pointed out that Billybrought up the conversation. He started just
going and when we talked to thisperson initially, I mean we he even
asked this person, Hey, whydidn't you tell somebody about this? What
they said made perfect sense after wegot in depth, especially with Doug on
(05:14):
the phone call. But it's justa very revealing part of the phone call.
I think it is personally because youget a little bit of insight from
the person who got the information andthey're they're questioning it too. Yeah,
they're like, why you know,why were you there? Like what did
you do? And Billy never deniesit, but he never says that he
was involved. But you know thathe knows what happened. Yes, yes,
(05:40):
And that's that's the part that getsto me. The most Yeah,
and that's why I think that thisinformation of why this why our team has
gone in this direction is you cannothave all of these things and not have
it be true. Absolutely. Thisjust again shows that Billy himself doesn't say
I wasn't there, I wasn't involved, right, He doesn't say that,
(06:01):
and I think he would say that. I think that he was getting so
nervous and this was stressing him out, and there was a lot of things
going on. He was about tocome into a lot of money. Who
knows if this isn't being held overhis head. You give so much money.
And based on what we know aboutKim and this clip, this person
also mentions Kim again and talks abouthow she is in charge right and she's
(06:28):
calling the shots, and so thisgoes back to again Kim not wanting to
talk Kim Y, you know,telling other people not to talk to us,
being protected by Kansas. This personsix months ago was and the way
she acted is talking to Jennifer notto interrupt them. But yeah, when
Jennifer was talking about her mannerisms andthe way she acted. After I re
(06:50):
listened to this phone call, relistened to that, I was like,
man, like if people only understoodwhere we were coming from, and now
we have an opportunity to let peopleknow where we were coming from. Now
you guys see what's going on andwhy we went the direction we went with
(07:15):
the tractor? Whose tractor or aTV? Would that have been? Well,
Billy had a TV and Billy hada tractor. Billy had both,
he had ATV or he had fourwillers and he had a tractor. I
don't you know. And he didn'tsay when talking if she was alive when
they took her up there. Yeah, I think Billy said was he went
(07:38):
to the bar and went in thebar, took her there. That was
always it. That was it.They went up there with the tractor and
they killed her and burned her upin the corner. He kept calling to
the corner when he's saying they whodo you think he's referring to Mitchell and
Johnny and whoever was up there doingwhatever it is they were doing. And
(08:01):
they had to you know, theyburned her up inside and they added to
it had covered up somehow, andthat would have been Lawn and john and
Bob because Mitchell, I don't thinkyou know, it would have the sense
of doing stuffing. I mean,he might have the sense that he might
have not the sense, but hemight have the encouragement to, you know,
(08:22):
to get violent and kill her.But then, oh, now what
do I do? That's my opinion, Well, now what do I do?
And the job that you're talking aboutis John Bright? Correct from Lawn's
brother Lawn and then John. Ithink they're real close to the They're real
close to the same age, liketwo or few years apart or whatever.
(08:43):
Then you got another one, andthen you got Bob, which is the
baby. I think the one thingabout that clip that I don't fully agree
with, and I understand, youknow, we put a lot of steak
in this in this phone call,actually both phone calls. Don't I just
don't see Judy going into that bar. I really don't. I mean,
(09:07):
I could see her getting picked upin a situation where she's in a vehicle
where people are at that bar,or had to stop at that bar while
she's in the vehicle. By justI have a hard time seeing her walking
into a bar. Yeah, yeah, And you know, and I think
later on I do ask that question. Two is we've talked to so many
(09:31):
people and she was never in thebar, and what was specified was Billy
said, Well, she wasn't inthe bar. Whoever she came with was
in the bar. But even thatI can't wrap my head around because when
we look at the timeline and welook at everything, how does Chris pick
her up walking towards the farm whichis opposite of the bar. Yeah,
(09:58):
she was picked up and taken tothe bar. So how does that all
come together? And the only thingI can think of, again, if
anybody was there, if anybody knowsanything, let us know. But the
only we have that gap of time, right, and the gap is kind
of closed, yes, because Chris, I think, is off honest time.
(10:18):
But even so, I don't seeJudy getting in the car with somebody.
Well I can't say that anymore becauseshe got in the car with Chris,
who she didn't know. But Icould see Judy get in the car
with Billy if Billy was going tothe bar. But I don't even know
if I believe that, because Billywas different a little bit, didn't have
(10:41):
the best hygien But maybe they maybethat was the the familiarity, you know,
like they knew each other. Shemight have felt, you know,
somewhat relaxed or safe or whatever thecase might be. Maybe it was that,
But then how do you get herthen leaving the bar and Chris picks
her up. The only situation thatI could think of personally is if that
(11:07):
person she was with or supposedly with, went into the bar and they were
in there for an extended period oftime to where she got tired of waiting
and she decided to walk, Yeah, and just say screw, I'm going
to get out. I'm going towalk the rest of the way home.
They can sit in there for howeverlong they want. Yeah, but that's
(11:28):
that's just my personal speculation. Yeah, And that's the thing I we're kind
of going back and forth on,right because we I do believe there's a
lot of details in this call.I do believe what this person is saying
that Billy said, this is onething I cannot figure out or section And
there's always something right that doesn't makesense in any case that you're just like,
(11:48):
I don't know if that fits anything. And well, I remember at
the beginning it was Chris and histime, Yes, that timeline and it
and but as soon as we gotthat case while and saw that there were
witness statements that corroborated her path oftravel in the timeframe. We're like,
all right, good, Like thisdoes make sense now she did it?
(12:11):
Yeah, and I do think that. Christopher de said, yeah, I
are at the bar if she camein. I do believe that. But
then then when I asked that question, this person was like, no,
Billy says she wasn't in the bar. She was outside with whoever she came
with. Why is she outside?So then into my head, I'm thinking,
Okay, did she walk get aride, go to the bar and
(12:35):
be like I don't want to goin. Yeah, I'm leaving. I'm
going to go walk to the farm. And then they're realizing, shit,
she's going up to the farm.Chris picks her up. I mean he
had he was at the bar.No, that's kind of where I'm at.
Thought, Yeah, I'd be curiousif anyone has any thoughts on this,
(12:58):
because yeah, I can't put ittogether yet, and we know Billy
was at the bar. He wasat the bar all the time. We
do know, And I've talked topeople who said, yeah, there was
drugs moving out of Reese's store andthe bar from the Right family so is
this all connected. I don't know, but clearly Judy crossed the paths with
(13:22):
these individuals, and Billy obviously saidthat this is what happened. So I
just can't wrap my head around it. No, I agree, And I
just asked people to keep in mind, you know, we're not saying Billy
is innocent in this, because hecould have been putting himself outside of the
(13:43):
situation as an outsider who just knewinformation. But and in reality, he
just didn't want to be the badguy to have any fault on his shoulders
while he's saying everything. So justkeep that in the back of your mind
into Yeah, it's always like youknow, when people go halfway with professions,
they want to put a lot ofdistance between themselves in the crime,
(14:07):
right, But as you continue toquestion, they continue to put themselves closer.
And it could be And I knowwe've talked about this as a team
before. Did Judy get in thecar with Billy because she was exhausted,
she was tired, and he cameupon her first. She knows him,
even given all the charistics, right, she was like, okay, He's
(14:28):
like, well, I'm going togo to the bar. Maybe she has
to go to the bathroom. She'sdiabetic, so we're thinking, well,
that kind of makes sense, right, But she didn't go into the bar.
Maybe she got there and was likethis doesn't feel right, I'm just
gonna go walk. But again,I think Chris would have said, well,
maybe christ and theer because she didn'tgo in the bar. That's but
(14:50):
I could go round and round onthis. I just don't know, oh,
sure of information as to why Billysaid this. Better know why.
I'm right on board with you forthe listeners. We are commentating as we
go. We have certain time stampsand we're reviewing them and going over them,
so it's hard to remember, youknow the specific details of each time
(15:11):
stamp, but it just goes backto our previous conversation a few minutes ago.
One of the specific things in thatconversation is this person doesn't deny that
Billy didn't know Judy. This personvery familiar, like, yeah, Billy
knew everybody. I mean, that'sjust kind of his personality. So it
(15:31):
wasn't discounting that Judy wouldn't get inthe car with Billy. So again,
it's just kind of wondering where thisbar comes into play, and I'm just
it's frustrating. I just don't understandit. It is and you can we
can sit here and go rounds andspend an hour speculating on that whole specific
(15:56):
scenario. But I think at theend of the day, what it comes
down to, like the brass tacksof the specific information that's being provided that
correlates with information that we have thatis not public, along with you know,
some of our certain theories and stufflike that. In the end result,
(16:17):
unfortunately, is the same. Itis. It's just those little details
that sometimes you just never get andwe just may never know. And Billy
didn't elaborate unfortunately, So it makesyou again wonder did he just make that
up? Did he not know?Why wouldn't he go into more detail about
that, and you know, sayingthey they so yeah, and you can
(16:41):
tell this person was trying to askmore information, definitely, but Billy was
just kind of going around it andjust trying to tell the full story.
So yeah, you know, myhat's off to this to this caller and
the person who provided us with thisinfo, because like, we get it,
you know, we were asking thesame things. But you know,
(17:06):
it is what it is. Goon to what we got. Kimberly is
here. We played if you need, if you you know, but I
you can you right now you haveto point of Howard to Howard for her
in order to talk to those things. He pam just for the listeners,
Melissa snipped out this ten second clip, like fifteen seconds. She's like,
(17:30):
I can't remember exactly why this wassuper important, but it's only ten seconds
or fifteen seconds. And we justplayed it because, like I said,
there's a lot of time stamps,a lot to keep, a lot to
keep track of. And as soonas I heard that, I remember listening
to this just reviewing it a coupleof weeks ago, and when I heard
(17:52):
that, that's when I texted Melissaand was like, oh shit, this
is where he straight up corroborated whatwe've experienced for the last six months.
And it was total foreshadowing on thisperson's part. That one gets me because
it was complete that you got.He's got to remember this call was before
(18:15):
Bill Mitchell and to our radar,before we even started doing episodes about Billy
and Mitchell and the information that wereceived from these calls. Yes, yes,
So it was so funny because becauseI really was like, I know
what this was justin it's like tenseconds. I'm like, because he's telling
me, oh, it's ten seconds, I'm like, I don't do math,
(18:36):
but okay, and so I'm like, I don't remember what it is
because I listened to this like lastweekend or something and put all these times
to SAMs down. So I takea drink as we're listening, and then
I almost spit it out because Iwas like, that's the clip. I
mean, holy shit for us,because if everyone's been following along, Kim
has been everything buck cooperative. Buthe also saying she's the weakest link,
(19:02):
which I find so interesting because who'sprotecting Kim from talking? Yeah, anybody?
And this person even says you're gonnahave to point out how Witzer at
her to get her to talk.Yes, just the accuracy of it all.
I mean it's spot on, becausenobody will let us get to camp
(19:22):
or to get to Kim. Imean, Kansas like blocked Jennifer right away,
Like how dare you right? Everyoneis like shielding Kim and this person's
like, she's your weakest link.She will talk, she will talk,
So people aren't going to allow youto talk to her and what are here?
We are I was a best car? Yes, it was, it
(19:48):
was. That was one of theone of the ones that text to you
about. It was like, oh, there's golden here that we totally forgot
about. That actually played out,yes the way the caller said. It
was yes, yes, months ago, yes, before we even yeah.
And that shows this person has informationand knows that is already saying listen,
(20:10):
Kim ain't going to talk to you. She's the weakest link. But other
people are going to protect her sothat she doesn't talk to you, because
she will talk if she feels likeshe's cornered. Absolutely, okay, Kim
and Bob and Mitchell. Bob firstof all is affiliated with all of the
little Right Family Dinner with Lawn andJohn and Rich which died. But they
(20:33):
all were affiliated with a thing calledmethanphetamine, and they all do their own
little and they have her own littlegang of stuff that goes on into little
bar up Street by the Rusia's storeand long Wright runs it, and they
all do all this stuff. Andthey were involved somehow, I don't know
(20:56):
how. Billy and Mitchell emberly Sonand the Johnny which was a relative of
Mitchell whereas they were doing the methamphetaminething in the that had a auction house.
Well well yeah, yeah, Andfor the listeners, that was from
(21:19):
the original phone call with just thisperson and Melissa. Again you heard it
corroborated earlier on which was in thesecond phone call. But yeah, they
laid it out. Yeah. Andwhat was interesting about this this first call
with this person was that he didspecifically mention Reese store and also the bar.
(21:41):
So we just kind of are goingback again. Like I said,
this person the multiple times I talkedto this person was saying the same information.
Anytime you get close to anybody downthere, you will be putting your
life a danger. And the sheriff, which was the sheriff that looked up
the street, well he's a watchdogfor them all, any of them getting
(22:06):
any trouble with their first person theycalled. He's the first person that covers
up stuff and things like this.The reason I noticed information was because Billy
told me all about the situation infifteen and a week later he was dead.
That clip when I first heard it, because again this is the first
phone call we got. It struckme because I know how these situations work,
(22:36):
we're and we're always cautious. We'realways cautious. And what made me
worry when we heard that was thefact that we were planning a trip going
back out there. And I wasmore concerned for your safety above anybody else's
because between me, Jen and Allenand even George for that matter, I
(22:59):
feel comfortable in a situation like that. And that's no offense to you,
Melissa, Please don't take it asthat. But I was more concerned,
like when I heard that, becauseI was like, man, Melissa's gonna
Melissa is gonna freak out. ButI mean, when we go out there,
we do have enough support. Wedon't really have to concern ourselves with
(23:22):
any any of this type of stuff. Like everybody in law enforcement knows where
we're going, where we're gonna be, So it's it's just a matter of
are you going to be dumb enoughto try to do something to us?
Yeah, exactly, Well that wasmy whole thing. Yeah, And it
was a little again because we againhave not investigated the rights, We didn't
have much information on them. Weare already planning a trip and if you
(23:45):
remember, for our listeners, weactually delayed our trip due to this phone
call because we actually wanted to getmore information before we showed up, So
we actually delayed our trip to alater time period so that we could have
the support because Doug was actually notgoing to be in town. So due
to that as well, we didn'twant to go without Doug. I obviously
(24:08):
shared this information with Doug and hegot very concerned for me because I'm very
much a pitbull, if you will, and I like continue to go after
and talk to people and like I'lldo it on my own or whatever,
and then then you know, Doug'slike, you know, and so when
we heard this call, I waslike, I got worried, and Doug's
like, hold on a minute,Hold on a minute, you know.
(24:30):
So he wanted to be there becausehe wanted to ensure that the team was
safe. Because of course when youhear anything like this, this person was
warning us that you don't want tomess with the right family. So then
of course I'm talking with Doug sharingthis information. Are you familiar with this
family? Who are they? What'sgoing on? Doug was the Drug Force
(24:52):
go to person back in two thousandand eight. He didn't know this family,
He didn't know their name. Andthat could because it was small time
stuff, right or not on hislevel of what he was working on.
But that was obviously an initial concernfor us when we heard this information.
And why this person did not contactlaw enforcement when he heard this information from
(25:15):
Judy was the fear of the RightsAnd I've heard that many times. I
want to stay anonymous. I don'twant my information out there because I don't
trust them. They are vindictive,YadA YadA, YadA. Well, I'll
be honest. They can come outto my neck in the woods anytime they
want. So, yeah, Imean when we got that kind of I
(25:37):
took it as obviously very seriously atfirst. This is the first time I'm
hearing like, who, how arethese people of? Why is someone so
afraid of them? So we haveher walking on Old Saint Mary's Pike and
Littell Creek. I wondered if shedidn't show up at the sundown to like
take a break, she was diabetic? Was she tired to ship to go
to the bathroom? But we youknow, can't anybody to confirm she was
(26:00):
in the bar. But of courseas she was, they're not going to
say yes, did you say thatthe Rights owned the sundown bar. No,
oh no, they run all thedrug in and out of like two
or three bars. Now there's there'stwo or three bars that they did that
in. And also the auction house. They would sell the methamphetamine and stolden
(26:22):
property at the auction house, andBilly wanted to stop it, and two
weeks later he did through the concessionstand. They were sewing it through the
concession stand. Okay, so that'swhere I'm wondering. Okay, anything else
that like Billy could tell you about. Was he with Mitchell when this happened
(26:44):
to Judy? He didn't say hewas there, And I asked him several
times, did you do this?Was you there? He did not confirm
that he was there, but hedidn't say no. He didn't say yes,
and he didn't say no. SoI have to say that maybe he
was affiliated somehow. I don't know. Maybe the rights took him up there
later on, because that's where youknow, he knew more about the farm
(27:07):
than most people because he was upthere several times. From my understand but
I really don't know that for afact. But he did confirm that Mitchell
and john and Bob Wright and JohnnyWright was all there. Did Billy say
how they got up the driveway?He said, they took a tractor up
(27:30):
there. They said they took atractor up there. That's what he said.
He didn't say what kind of hedidn't, you know he was he
was not real loucid with me.He just said they took it. We
took a tractor up there, sohe might have been there. Did he
say how she, how Judy was, or what was going on or anything?
Did he hear any details about it? No? No, I did
(27:52):
not, No, I did not. I just heard that, you know
all. He told me that theythey they did it and they killed her
and a cooked her in the corntrip that's what he said, okay,
And no reason for why they killedher, just they had her. And
he told me that she knew informationabout what they were doing from intown from
apparently there was something went on intown, he told me, And she
(28:15):
found out that who and who andwhat was doing want and they found out
about it and that's why they killedher. That they were making math maybe
on their property. I do notknow that that was not told to me.
But I wouldn't put her to passthem. I would not put her
to pass them because a lot ofempty places out there, they could do
cook whatever they wanted to do atany place, right and that and that's
(28:36):
what you know, I'm wondering isif did she come upon you know,
that happening. But from what Billy'saccount was that she was out at the
Sundowners and then they went from there. Correct, That's what I was told,
because something went on in town andshe found out maybe they she found
out in town that they were cookingit out there. And I don't know.
I don't know that well. Andso you know, the other possibility
(29:00):
we're looking at, is it possiblethat when they dropped her off, Chris
Cutwright, who did work out atSundowners and part of that whole scene,
you know, maybe he called somebodywho said, hey, she's up there.
I don't really know that because Idon't know any of that. That
part of that. I just knowedwhat I was told. As Ally also
(29:21):
got to understand that the Rights havea little funny scheme goes on what they
don't keep anything in the house.They keep it in their so called let's
see a chicken cooper whatever it isoutside, it's an outbuilding outside they keep
everything in the outbuildings so that wayif they do get That's what the sheriff
told them that if it's not inthe house, then we can't seize your
(29:44):
property. But if it's outside,then you can claim that somebody else's.
And that's what they do. Theystore the stuff outside, all the stolen
property and the maths and the drugsand all the guns and all the other
guardians and their little chicken coops outsideand the outbuildings outside of their property,
outside of the main living house,main living, main dwelling. And that's
what they were told by the sheriff. If you keep it out there,
(30:10):
then we don't have to seize yourproperty or your house. Your house is
not in danger because if it's beenit's where you can say somebody else put
it there and you didn't know anythingabout it. Just don't lock the building.
That makes sense. We're planning atrip trip back to Parkersburg to relook
at everything again. Did Billy sayhow they killed her? Uh no,
(30:33):
he just said that she did.She was dead and they burned her in
the corn prip That's all she said. He didn't say nothing else about what,
how, what's going on? Hejust said, who was there and
they cooked her in the corn prop? Is that do you mean by that?
Do you mean the seller? Well, they had they had outbuildings,
There was places where they would keepdifferent things, and you know he called
(30:56):
he called things different stuff and Idon't know, but wherever it was was
an underground facility where they course shewas found. It was down underground and
he called it the cornprip. WhatI find interesting is this person goes into
a little bit more information that accordingto this person, Billy had said that
the Rights were dealing method but Imean different drugs through different bars and the
(31:19):
auction house. So again it seemslike the Resa store, the Sundonners is
a location where this was going on. And we do know that Chris Cuttwright
was a frequent flyer at the SundoonnerBar. We know that Billy was there
a lot. I have heard thatMitchell and John would show up from time
(31:40):
to time. So it just showsthat there's this inner circle of things going
on and it's struggle related. Wasthere anything else in that clip that you
wanted to talk about? Not really, just the fact that, again when
we asked questions that were not trueor not right this person corrected us.
(32:02):
Yes, Like when you went andasked, okay, so the rights own
that bar, this person was like, no, No, they didn't own
the bar. They just ran drugsout of it, and they ran drugs
out of the other ones. Andit's little things like that that people,
I think need to recognize. Yeah, and this person too would say I
(32:23):
don't know that Billy did say thatand over and over again, which helps
me believe, like we talked about, this person isn't adding anything more to
what Billy said or didn't say.If Billy didn't specify. This person saying
I don't know. So I thinkthat really again helps show that this is
(32:44):
really what Billy had said to thisperson. Correct all right, So I
think that's it. Well, Melissa, what do you think about all that?
I think this is great. I'mactually really excited for the listeners to
hear this episode so that they canbe caught up or know what we have
been looking at for the last fewmonths and understanding the strategies, what we've
(33:08):
been going through, why we've beenfocusing on the rights, why we've been
wanting to talk to Kim, whywe've been doing the things that we've been
doing is when you hear this,there's a lot of specific details that were
provided by Billy to this person thathe trusted. I could not agree more.
It's the one thing that got mein the group. Somebody said,
(33:32):
oh, this is just a witchhunt, It's like, you know what,
you might want to look up thedefinition, because this is not a
witch hunt at all. We havereasons for what we do and who we
want to talk to and why,and just because we don't disclose those reasons
doesn't mean we're just throwing out baselessaccusations or speculations. These two phone calls
(33:59):
right here are why we went thedirection we did. And I'll be honest
with you, Melissa, you knowas well as I do. Billy was
at the top of the list fromday one, and we moved him down
the list after, you know,we found out about Chris and we started
getting into things more. You guyshave to realize, as listeners, this
person has never heard this podcast.They have no idea what's going on with
(34:22):
this now. As soon as thisperson picked up the phone or answered the
call, they just started going intoit. Yes, and it was like,
holy shit, Okay, we haveto go in this direction. Now,
So for those of you who areyou know, trying to accuse us
(34:44):
of this and that and throw aroundaccusations about us harassing you and you're gonna
sue us and all this dumb shit. We have reasons for what we do,
and I'm glad that the listeners havean ey opportunity to listen to some
of the information that we have hadand we've been sitting on for like six
(35:06):
months, and why we went thedirection we went right, and like we
said before, it gives Billy avoice and a lot of people have said,
well, Billy's escapegoat. And Imentioned this with Jennifer in our last
episode, is if we were interestedin scapegoating, we would have still been
on Chris cut right, But we'renot, oh for sure, And he's
(35:28):
the easiest one and the rights tome, given what Billy himself has said
very specific information, have been justfine with Cris being this scapegoat for fifteen
years. Oh, they're fine,of course now that we're looking and saying,
listen, this is what Billy's saying, that Mitchell killed Judy and you're
all involved. Now it's an issue, so it's just part of the investigation
(35:52):
process. But I am so gladto be at this point. I think
we've made a tremendous on a progressin the year and a half almost that
we've been on Judy's case and bringingnames that have never been mentioned in details
that have never been mentioned before.And it makes sense if you're dealing with
(36:13):
a cop who was familiar with thefamily, Absolutely, and that cop was
the first one to divert attention whenwe originally talked to him. And that's
again another thing with this phone call, when that got brought up, it
goes back to, oh shit,that makes sense. You know. It's
(36:35):
with unsolved cases, it's like puttingpuzzle pieces together. It is, you
have certain sections that are whole,and you have all those missing parts,
and as you go along, aftermonths or weeks, whatever the case might
be, you start filling in thosesections with information and then hopefully one day
you get a complete picture. Andthat's what we all strive for. Absolutely.
(36:59):
I can almost guarantee the intelligent onesare going to be right on board
with us, because I can almostguarantee. This is why I don't comment
very much in the group, becauseI'm a very brash individual, so I'm
sure the dumb ones will we'll swoopin there and like, oh, this
(37:19):
person's full of shit or blah blahblah. And it's what you have to
realize is this person provided us withthis information that is not public before we
made some of this information public toyou the listeners. Yeah, and what's
interesting is this person had no ideaabout Judy's investigation, no idea, don't
(37:42):
live in the area, has noidea, has no stake in the game,
if you will. Again, it'snot Billy's ex, you know,
it wasn't anybody with that, butthis is a trusted person in Billy's life
and so they had no reason tolie. And it just it just goes
to show that this is what Billyhas said to this person again putting himself
(38:05):
there having knowledge of the information,and it's it's super important that we put
this out to everybody so you canunderstand our methods and why we do what
we do. So I'm happy withwhere we're at. It's ultimately at this
point up to the investigative authorities toget him to talk. And you know,
(38:28):
she's obviously not going to talk tous. It's a sad reality of
the situation. We our job isto exhaust every resource that we have to
find out the truth, whether thattruth. And we all know I love
the Petty family. You love thePetty family, but we told them from
(38:50):
day one our job is to findthe truth, whether you know it's what
you want to hear or not.I think that we've come a long way
in the fact that you know,we keep it real with them, Marvin
and Kelly. I talked to Kellymore than anybody. Obviously, she's the
one who submitted the case to us. She's very, very involved. But
(39:14):
when we actually go there, Italked to Marvin more than anybody. No,
you get you well, I do. I do love me some joan
time. I'm not gonna lie.And they're just the side by side comparisons
between them and my grandparents who arestill alive. We all have an amazing
(39:37):
relationship with the Petties. And Iknow that many people have commented a sudden
message of they have without getting emotional. They have touched the lives of so
many listeners that when Mom Patty wassick and going under very risky surgery,
(39:57):
I had so many message of Iwoke up and I was like, of
her, did she is everything Okay, Like, she's the first thing I
thought of. I'm so invested inthis family. I love them, and
I'm from a different state, andthat just goes to show the reach that
this family has. And so atsome point, you know, we do
recognize that we're not law enforcement.We can't go arrest him. We can't
(40:21):
bring her in to question her.As much as we'd love to, we
can't, and that's that's up tothe authorities. And so that's, you
know, a topic for another day. But we do love the Patties and
I hope to see them soon.And Mom Patty's doing amazing. She commented
on my Facebook yesterday and I waslike, I mean she mentioned me.
(40:45):
She put up posted of me andmy daughter at the Taylor Swift concert last
night. Hey, everyone goes tosee Taylor starting the concert. It was
amazing the movie theater for us poorfolk who can't go. And she's like,
oh, is this a sweet picture? And I was like, anyway,
So that's our episode for this week. We've been super excited about this
(41:06):
one and we hope you all enjoyedit, and we'll be back with another
episode coming soon. Anything else,trusted, No, just I encourage people
to still join the Facebook group ifyou're I would assume you're not a newer
listener by now if you've gotten thisfar in the podcast. But just know,
(41:27):
stay subscribed. If you do likethe podcast, rate and review it.
That helps us get found by otherpeople, and that helps Judy get
found by other people who might notbe listening. And just share it.
And it's never been about us.It's always been about Judy. And the
more people that know about Judy's case, the better. And I stress that
(41:49):
enough. Yes, yeah, justhelp us get the word out. And
like I said, I know alot of you are coming from my podcast,
my other podcast that have been followedthis case, and I can't stress
enough, like share it, youknow, people who are into true crime,
long form investigative podcasts share the podcast. But other than that, no,
(42:12):
I just like to thank everybody forsticking in with us. And we're
not done yet, so don't beunsubscribing or anything. Never never more stuff
coming. So yeah, and I'vehad so many people message me from Hey,
my true crime loves that I metin the line. They have binge
our whole season. Are they good? Yes? Good? And people are
(42:32):
like I'm off the wine line.Yes, hey, wine line line,
and so they have blessed me,like I'm all kind up. We had
a couple of people order shorts fromCrime come out. Yeah I saw that.
Yeah, so hey my wine lineand it was so much fun.
But all right, well Melissa,it's been a good time, and all
you listeners out there, thank youfor following along. Again. I imagine
(42:58):
a lit'll see you on the nextone. La Na
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist
It’s 1996 in rural North Carolina, and an oddball crew makes history when they pull off America’s third largest cash heist. But it’s all downhill from there. Join host Johnny Knoxville as he unspools a wild and woolly tale about a group of regular ‘ol folks who risked it all for a chance at a better life. CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist answers the question: what would you do with 17.3 million dollars? The answer includes diamond rings, mansions, velvet Elvis paintings, plus a run for the border, murder-for-hire-plots, and FBI busts.