E9 - 1 of 2 - Live Update Episode

In this live episode, Melissa and Justin give updates and discuss the case over a Zoom call with guests. Joined with them are members of the Petty family, Alan Haskins, and others.

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
Here on the safe Haven Podcast.Any names mentioned should not be considered as
suspects unless officially stated as such bylaw enforcement. Any opinions during interviews on
this podcast or the opinions of theinterviewee and don't reflect the opinions of the
safe Haven Podcast or the AMU ColdCase Team. Everyone is innocent until proven

(00:21):
guilty in a court of law.Welcome to this episode a safe Haven.
This is a very special one.We are doing a live zoom call right
now with a bunch of participants andyeah, we're doing like an update case
discussion because we got a part ofthe case file. And then we're going

(00:43):
to take questions or comments or concernsfrom our guests today. And this is
a first for us. We wantedto basically invite people to participate with us
and see how well that went.That way, we can answer a lot
of questions in real time as we'regoing through some of the dates. I
am joined as always by my esteemedco host. How are you doing today?

(01:04):
Oh good? How are you?I'm not too bad? Yes,
I am so excited about this newepisode. And I'm looking at all our
like awesome members and we have momand dad Pettian, and we have Kelly
on, we have Alan on,and then we have some members in our
group as well. So I'm soexcited to try this out. Should be

(01:26):
pretty interesting. And we talked toeverybody beforehands so we're all on the same
page. And the case file wedid to find some interesting information. Some
new names popped up that we hadn'tseen before. We also had nailed down
sometimes and some of her sightings onold Saint Mary's bike and stuff like that,

(01:46):
So that is always a good thingto either confirm or question additional information.
Yeah, I don't know, whatdo you think. I thought it
was really good. I mean,I think we basically have two episodes here
because there's so much information in thiscase file, and you know, I
will say that it is a littlebit larger than I anticipated, and we

(02:08):
don't have all of it yet,but from what we do have, you
know, there's some great information inhere and some definite things that we can
follow up on and things that don'tmake a lot of sense. Right.
We notice some inconsistencies throughout the fileand that we're going to talk about those.
Yeah, and the case file stretchesover a period of time as well.

(02:29):
Because we have different ones from differentagencies. We have the canine reports
from when the dogs were taken outto the property and stuff stuff like that.
So yeah, I was. Iwas fairly happy with the information.
I hope we get the rest ofit here soon. Yes, I hope
so too. I talked to Dogand actually invited him on this episode.

(02:49):
But unfortunately, you know, there'sthings going on in Parkersburg that we know
of, and they're preparing for ourgrand jury and some other things. And
so he was thank well we invitedhim, but he was not able to
join. But hopefully he will listento this episode and we'll be able to
meet with him soon. Absolutely.All right, Well let's get into it.

(03:10):
Sounds good to me. So wehave the Parkersburg report and this states
that Judy left her home around fivepm. And this is further report.
The report also states the books werereturned, but at an unknown time.
We have a report of one personwho observed a female walking on Old Saint
Mary's Pike at seven pm. Wehave another statement from someone seeing Judy on

(03:37):
Old Saint Mary's Pike at approximately eightpm. Now, the person asked Judy
if she was okay, and thefemale said yes, she said she was
just out walking. We then haveanother individual who observed a female on Laurel
Creek Road around eight thirty pm.And these sightings, per Doug, are

(03:58):
ninety nine percent confirmed, he said, ninety nine point nine percent. They
are positive it was Judy. Sowould it take from eight thirty pm to
midnight for Judy to get from LaurelCreek Road to where Chris said he picked
her up? Based on reaching LaurelCreek to Jericho Road and then to the
spot where he picked her up,Melissa is thinking another two hours would be

(04:25):
about ten thirty ish, not midnight. And this is why I love it.
We have people on now that canhelp us here on this discussion point.
So when I was researching this,I had found when we were trying
to map it out, depending onwhere she was seen on Laurel Creek,
it might have just been the beginningbecause when you have you know, when

(04:46):
you're looking at what was the timehere at eight o'clock she was seen on
Old Saint Mary's Pike, and thenyou have another individual seeing her at eight
thirty She's only made it a halfan hour from Old Saint Mary's Pike.
To Laurel Creek, right, SoI'm wondering, and from that point on
Loyal Creek, I don't think thatit would have taken her like four hours

(05:09):
to get to where Chris said hewould have picked her up at midnight.
So I don't think that time framemakes any sense. And Ellen, you
are looking at it as well,right, Yeah, I pulled it up
and been kind of go through allthat in my head. I don't see
it. I don't think it wouldtake that long even for her to walk

(05:29):
from there all the way out tothe farm. Game well, with that
gap in time too, wouldn't Isit possible there's just that gap in time
where she's missing again or something happens. I mean, that's and that's that's
what he's going through my mind,is yeah, what happened in that time
front? Yes, And that's justa long stretch, you know, from

(05:51):
the last time she was seen untilhe says he picked her up. You
know, there's a long stretcher outthere, right, And that's where I'm
wondering. That doesn't make sense,right, And we'll get into this later
as to his statements, But sheshould have already been to the farm by
the time he says in OH eightthat he left the bart midnight. Right.
So again, based on the casefile that we have now, these

(06:15):
times don't match up. There's athere's a wide gap. I mean,
would she sit down on the sideof the road for like two hours and
take a break? Maybe that possibility, I mean, but she also could
have gotten a hit by a carthen disoriented or wandering or maybe even passed
out for a little bit. Well, we talked about last time too.

(06:36):
According to you all, I haven'tworn them, but those hiking boots are
uncomfortable. So is it possible thatshe was walking and just took a break.
But I don't see you taking likea two hour break sitting on the
side of the road in the woodsand then I don't know. To me,
that seems off. If you're wearingthose kinds of boots and you take

(06:56):
a break, when you start walkingagain, your feet are gonna hurt worse
than they did before you stopped.Really, Oh yeah, absolutely interesting.
I gotta get me some of theseI don't I don't understand them, but
now I'll get them for our uncomfortablefor her walking, you know, that
was one of the discussions we wantedto bring up and talk with the group
who is from Parkersburg. You know, we had a comment in our Facebook

(07:19):
group that it would be great tohave, you know, people from the
area who might have something to youknow, contribute to that. So you
know, feel free to let usknow if your thoughts on that. I
just think that we have a largegap now in time from the last time
she was seen to when Chris saidin oh eight that he picked her up.
Yeah, most definitely. Now let'sgo into the Wood County Sheriff because

(07:41):
that information about the time that shewas seeing and all of that came from
Parkersburg. So I wanted to startout with that just to show or actually
have a discussion with everyone that thosewere the times that she was seeing and
confirmed Doug did go back out andfollow up with these individuals, and like
Justin said, they were confident itwas he out there walking. So now

(08:03):
we do have those timestamps. Sonow if we go over to the Wood
County Sheriff's report, which really waslonger than I anticipated based on what Westfall
told me, it sounded like therewasn't much done, but they actually had
a lot in their file that wehave gotten. So far in the Wood
County Sheriff's report some interesting things.So on February seventh, Westfall got a

(08:26):
call from the firefighters. They're actuallyrequesting a canine search of the area.
So on the seventh he received acall from the firefighters asking for a canine
search. Westfall wrote in the reportthat just too many people had searched the
area prior to the canine which wouldmake it a lot harder for them to
search. So it looks like thedogs were requested on the seventh but declined,

(08:50):
and then so on the eighth,Westpall got contacted by mister Petty by
phone, who was then again askingfor a canine search. So he you
know, mister Petty had followed backup and said, hey, you know,
I really think we should bring thedogs out here. So Westfall then
went ahead and called the King ninesearch because mister Petty provided him with the

(09:11):
contact information. So mister Petty atthat point told west Fall that he had
heard Judy was dropped off around midnighton Friday at the drive in the driveway,
so Westfall made an interesting note atthat He said that there were no
fresh new footprints in the mud nearthe bottom of the driveway. So basically

(09:35):
what he's saying is, you know, the one footprint that they found,
there was no other fresh footprints inthe area. So I find that interesting
because I don't know how you canjust have one and then nothing else.
And then he goes on to saythat Chief Hefner of the Waverley Fire Department
informed Westfall that the King Nines hadfound a strong track and asked for a

(09:56):
helicopter to be brought into search.Westfall and Woodyard, who was the chief
at the time, they had outin a helicopter. And what I found
interesting in this was that it saysupon their arrival, so they had just
from how I understood this report,they had just arrived and then they were

(10:18):
notified to come back to land becausesome items had been found. So Westfall
comes back, they land the helicopter, and then he also agreed that it
appeared to be home in human bones, and that's when they called Mike Saint
Clair. So some things I wantto talk to, you know, talk
through on this information was that itsounds like they had just gotten there to

(10:39):
search the area. So to me, this is important because we were told
that there was possible four wheel tracksthat we're seeing right, because there's lots
of wooded area and trails to thepetty property. So Westwall told me that
they didn't really see anything when theywere up in the helicopter. But now
I'm really wondering, like, well, how long were you actually up there

(11:01):
searching? Because it sounds like uponarrival like they had just gotten there and
then they were notified to land.I don't know, what do you think
about that? Justin nor the group, anybody have any thoughts on that.
I don't know, it's peculiar.I'm wondering the time frame again, like
I'm trying to work it all outin my head. And I guess the
patties were there. If you rememberwhen they went up in the helicopter,

(11:24):
you know how long they were upthere? What you think? But you
know, to me, it soundsupon arrival, doesn't sound like they were
up circling or searching the area asmuch as maybe I thought that had happened.
So is it possible that they didn'tsee any kind of tracks? Yeah,
it's very possible. And I knowyou had some questions about that,
you know, when you were mentioningabout the tracks and could a truck get

(11:46):
through there and not leave any tracksor anything. What's your thoughts on this?
I was kind of wondering about that. You know, how accessible the
backside is to where the house andthe shed and where she was around at
you know, how accessible is thatby foil drive by, you know,
atv by, you know whatever,from some of the neighboring properties. If

(12:09):
the foliage was on, could theysee tracks you know, through the woods
or could they see you know,when you're I mean, if they weren't
there for very long, if theyjust you know, flew in and then
landed and then found what they foundand then got in a helicopter and left,
which is what it sounds like happened. Like you said, maybe they
didn't see anything. Maybe they juststay over they missed something, you know,

(12:30):
great, And that's what I'm wonderingtoo. And you know, Mom
and Dad puttier you know, Kelly, if you have any information on that,
please join in and let us know. But you know, one of
the things too, Jed Jed mentionedin our chat right now. She just
said to me, if there's noshoeprints or tracks on the driveway, then
no way she walked up it.So that's you know true as well,

(12:54):
and there is you know report laterfrom woodyard on the reef I guess of
the driveway, and that there wouldn'thave been any real prints left to get
the size of the shoe, well, Melissa, Dad did find a footprint
and it was almost up getting closerto the house, and he said it

(13:15):
could be more like a size tento twelve. He even took a piece
of stick and put it by thefootprint. And the other question you also
had was could you get access tothe house from the back I would say
a four wheeler could have at thetime. I'm not sure about a truck,
but I think coming from the backfieldto a different property, definitely,

(13:37):
a four wheeler could have came throughthere easily easily because I did it.
I did it myself and that doesn'ttake very long to go from one property
to the next property. And fourwheelers after I was riding all one of
them checking other properties around us,so I know there's four wheeler tracks because

(13:58):
of two different four wheelers out wewent from there to the neighbors properties in
different directions. There was more printsaround for someone had been up there.
Besides the pictures that I took thefootprints, they weren't as plain as the
ones I took. There's had beena lot of tracking in the area,

(14:24):
so it was hard to determine whatPrince was early and what Prince was later
on. I was on one ofthe four wheelers, like I said,
with another implument, another person neighborlooking for other properties around us to where
that was before we found her body. Okay, so that's what my question

(14:48):
was going to be, mister Petty. Was that so this was out the
time that she was still missing.You were out and you actually saw four
wheeler tracks. Yes, we was. There was two different or winners being
used. How do you know that? Because I was a moment Okay,
I mean so you saw one track, right, yeah, different over in

(15:13):
the wooded area beside the farm overLoud there's property, and back over towards
Packers property there was Prince and there'sfour wheeler tracks because there was being used,
but not by you, right daddy, No, right, but that's
what Yeah, you were on him, but you've seen tracks back there before

(15:35):
you even got back there. Yeahyeah, okay, I'm wondering if that's
what they didn't see, you know, up in the helicopter if they weren't
up there searching, So that makessense. Now I have another question in
the group real quick, mister Petty. Do you think that a four wheel
drive truck could make it back throughthere through that terrain if there's a big

(16:00):
drop though, wasn't there right?I've had mine back there many a time.
Your truck in it did fine.Yeah, So that was one of
the things that I know we've alldiscussed. Is it likely that someone accessed
the property from the back gate?And given that Westfall and them were up
in the helicopter and they didn't seeanything, to me, it sounds from

(16:22):
the report they weren't up there longenough to even really investigate that much of
that area. So I found that, you know interesting as well. My
whole thing with the helicopter too iswere they even concentrating on that area,
you know, because they're en route, because there's remains found, whether they
had time or not, I wouldn'teven be probably have been paying attention to

(16:45):
the back area of the property.I think a lot of the focuses on
the driveway and at the bottom ofthe driveway at that point. Yeah,
that's just just me. It's justthought so on February eleventh, Cutwright came
to the station and spoke to Westfall. Chris's statement is he picked up a
female on Friday night Saturday morning,a few minutes after midnight. The female

(17:07):
was walking on Jericho Road heading towardRoute thirty one. He goes on to
say the female had dark hair andhe thought it was a different female that
he knew who lived out that way. In his statement on September second,
Chris says he picked her up onJericho Road, past Ralston Road and the

(17:29):
next y intersection right there. Ireviewed the video and he did not stop
there as the place he picked herup. Chris stated the entire trip took
approximately five to ten minutes. Solet's talk about based on Chris's statement he
said this took five to ten minutesto drive, what would that be walking

(17:52):
depending on the speed limit. Andthen based on this statement, she had
even less distance to go before beingat the farm technically, so what would
make her agree to get in atruck with a stranger at midnight when she
is so close to the farm already. We also have inconsistencies and time frames

(18:14):
as well. Chris told Melissa itwas early that he left the bar,
but could not give her any kindof time frame to when that was.
I think we all can agree midnight'snot that early, right, I mean
technically for a bar, yeah,I mean if you're used to closing at
three o'clock in the morning, yeah, I guess midnight would be early.

(18:37):
But on a random weekday in yourguys' general location, I doubt you know
a bar is going to stay opentil three am or midnight. A lot
of bars will close early through theweek. They they just don't have a
business, you know. And Ithink two we have statements that the bar
did close at midnight, but youknow, I want to hear too from
the group. Don't be shy,but I don't know this Ralston Road is

(19:00):
that's new for me that I sawthis in the case file so in the
next y intersection. So to me, when I read this, it's like
even closer to the farm that hepicked dropped in what he did in the
video. And I don't know ifthat's if I had that right in my
head. But well, actually Jem'sin the chat right now and she just

(19:21):
pointed something out. He has tobe referring to Wednesday night, not Friday,
which, yeah, that is correct. I just I guess that's my
question. Where is Ralston Road?For for you who I'll live in Parkersburg?
Is that? Where's that near?Is that on jarre Offen Jericho,
mister Putty? Where is Ralston Road? It's all full of him that comes

(19:42):
down to JAREDO. Is it closerto the intersection of Deer Walk Highway?
No? Is it closer to thirtyone, closer to going towards the farm.
It's large. Explain just where itis. Just have to to look.
Okay, we'll look and see.But from what when he took Hollie

(20:04):
and wanted to where he said hepicked her up? I don't remember that
being a wy intersection or close toit. I'll have to look at it
again. But it's it's mess rightup on top of the hill. It
just roads come together, different nameson him. Okay, to explain just

(20:29):
where the situation now, would yousay that that that literally is about a
five to ten minute drive from thatinner from there to your farm something something
near there, probably ten minutes orwhoever lasts So that just even confuses me
more because if it's a ten minuteor less, drive, why is she

(20:52):
getting in a truck with Chris whenshe's clearly almost there. That makes zero
sense to me, what anyone elseconfused? Very confused, because Judy never
We don't feel she would have evergotten a vehicle on her own, because,
like I said, her being soshy and making it that far,
why would you stop? Why wouldyou ask her a ride? Then,

(21:12):
you know, there's too many thingsChris said that is completely off. He
told us he the bar closed early, he went to bed early, and
now it's midnight when he picked Judyup. So there's a lot of different
things that was said there. Wejust don't feel Judy would have gotten a
vehicle, not on our own,not on our own free will. I

(21:33):
agree. I don't know that shedid either. Same place, same brant
where he said he picked her up. Originally, I think she was forced
him to his automobile, his trust. Yeah, that area. But you
know, going through these statements now, it's interesting that looking at what you

(21:56):
know, he's saying if it tookfive ten minutes, I don't see that
logical of getting in a car whenyou're so close. I could see back
at eight thirty right when she wasseeing and she's so far away, and
the person asked her if she neededto ride, and she said no,
but five to ten minute walk,she's already there. So I found that

(22:18):
very interesting in the statement the timesare not seeming to match up or just
logic doesn't make sense to me.So if we go on to the next
reports here, on February fourteenth,the remains were positively identified as Judy.
So before February fourteenth, you know, they were trying to get an identification.

(22:41):
So on the fourteenth, the remainswere identified by Mike Sinclair. On
the same date, Chris took apolygraph and per the examiner who issued the
polygraph, he wrote that he believedthat Chris was being truthful and had nothing
to do with the five or thedisappearance of Judy Petty. So one of

(23:03):
the questions I have in here,justin two and Elan or anyone who wants
to chime in, is you know, I really and maybe this is coming,
so we'll wait, but I reallywant to see the result and not
what this person believes, right,because I can believe something, but what
does the test show? And weall know that polygraphs are one hundred percent
accurate or you know, they're notadmissible in court for a reason. But

(23:26):
you know, it's interesting that thisperson believes. But when was this report
or when was this test given.Let's say this test was given to Chris
in the morning, and they haven'tidentified that it's Judy's remains, so she's
still based on this, She's stillmissing, right, So my question is

(23:47):
after that it becomes no longer i'mmissing person's case, but a possible homicide.
So I'm just, you know,interested in the timeframe of both of
these things. So, you know, what does anyone think about that?
I find that interesting? I mean, I'll just say I'm not polygraph is
like a stress test, and dependingon the wording of the questions and the

(24:08):
way that you word your answers,you know, you have to take that
into consideration because, like we havediscussed a couple of times, me and
Melissa have talked about and Jen aswell, the wording that he used,
yeah, I picked her up.That could mean five different things. That
could mean I picked her up ina vehicle, that could mean I picked
her body up, that could meananything. So in his mind, his

(24:33):
stress level isn't going up because technically, in his mind, he's also telling
the truth, but he's not givenany you know, specific answers. And
Jen is in the chat and shesaid, what questions were asked on the
polygraph? I think we went throughthat in like the second episode, because
we do have them. I can'tremember right off hand, Melissa, I'll

(24:57):
be honest with you, but Iactually just looked up a map as well
while we're on this here and RalstonRoad is like an alternate route between Jericho
Road and do your Walk Highway.It's a kind of connects both the two
and like a different in a differentfashion. Is that anywhere near justin know
where he said he picked her upwas, which is by the Chester House

(25:21):
Chichester's House, Kelly? Is thatNo? I was just gonna ask Daddy
on that one, because I knowwhere Chichesters are. I'm just not sure
where this road is if you're onfifty okay, and you hit where that
Jericho Road is if you go northa little bit, which I wish I

(25:42):
had some kind of reference point hereRalston Road. If you're heading north on
Jericho, it's right there. Idon't know. It says eighteen eleven,
but it's before Jericho Road splits off. To the right. So if you're
heading north on Jericho Road, there'sa fork where Jericho Road goes off to

(26:04):
the right. It's before that,yeah, Rawlston Hill Road, and then
that goes for a while and itconnects to narrow Gage Road. It connects
to it looks like another little backroad right over here as well. It
kind of forks off into why thatcould be somebody's driveway because there's no road

(26:26):
label on it. And then itgoes on and it kind of twists up
like Ralston kind of starts going towardsthe northeast and more north once it gets
towards the top. Yeah, Imean it's very windy, very very windy
road, especially right before it connectsto deer Walk Highway. Yeah, I
mean, it just does a hugeS shape. And then there's also another

(26:52):
little side road there off of thirtyone, which is deer Walk Highway.
Yeah. Yeah, it's kind oflike a little ultra route and it's way
more secluded. It looks like there'ssome houses and stuff back there, but
it does also connect with narrow GageRoad. Well. One of the things
that if that's closer to the deerWalk intersection, just in that road that's

(27:17):
not where he pulled over. Therewas a lot more distance to go,
and he didn't really know where hepicked her up. He just kind of
stopped on the side of the road. So to me back in O.
Eight when he gives this description,it's very specific. Usually get well,
if you're going to the family farmfrom Jericho Road Ralston Road is in the

(27:37):
complete opposite direction as it is.Yes, yeah, it's in the complete
opposite direction of the family Like ifyou're heading north on Jericho Road to hit
thirty one, which is Deer WalkHighway to head to the family farm from
the highway right there from fifty HillRoad breaks off to the east, right,

(28:00):
Okay, So if you're on Jerichoand you're heading towards the family farm,
you're gonna want to stay on Jerichobecause otherwise it's going to take you
a couple hours longer, whor youknow, whatever the case might be.
But yeah, it's it's in theheads towards the opposite directions. That just
makes the point even clear. Likeif he knew in O. Eighth that

(28:22):
that's a landmark of where he pickedher up, is that road on the
intersection, why do you still notremember that today. I mean, that's
a pretty good landmark. I pickedher up at this road right the street,
and that's not where he stopped.So I find that interesting because he
didn't know where he picked her upin the video, he just kind of

(28:42):
stopped. I justin what map areyou looking at? Are you on Google
Earth? Google Maps? Okay,yeah, I'm looking at it on Google
Earth. If you go over toOld Saint Mary's Pod, if that's the
route she came and came around thatway, followed it all the way on

(29:03):
eighteen. Yeah, way around RostonRoad would have been south to where she
would have come into the Jericho Roadat Yeah, you're right, Yeah,
he comes into Jericho, so shewould have had to have gone down to
Roston Road and then turn around andstarted coming back. Yeah, you're absolutely
right, which you don't make anysense. That makes zero sense. He

(29:27):
might have been talking about if hepicked her up. If you go up
Jericho towards the farm, there's aDice Dice Road or Drave and he talks
about two wives. Both of thoseare wives right there. Yes, there
are even where he picked her upat was right in there instead of down
on Roster. Yeah, I meanthat's just I mean, I like to

(29:49):
look at this as to what makessense. Dad. Don't make sense that
she would have come all the waydown to Roston Road and then come all
the way back up. Yeah no, but she would see on Little Creek
Road though, don't figut that?So I think he's using that as his
like mark, Like here's where Ipicked her off this road near this road

(30:10):
in this intersection like a landmark,but that's not where he stopped. And
to me, if that's where youpicked is your landmark, why wouldn't that
just stay your landmark? I meana road is a pretty good landmark.
Yeah. Does that make sense whatI'm saying? Or no action? For
sure? I mean that's an intersection. I don't know if it'd be a
landmark. But you got to lookat Derricho Road. There's so many whys.

(30:33):
And when you get up towards DiceDrive and there's another why that kind
of spits off to the left therebefore you get to deer Walk Highway,
and then you you get even furtherup deer Walk Highway and there's one,
two, three, like four moreintersections right there as well that kind of
why off. Yeah, so pink, yes, yeah, it's way north

(31:00):
to where kind of north north,kind of northwest of where where that's at.
Yeah, Ralston is completely in theopposite direction of Old Saint Mary's Pike.
Or if I'm right, if shetook the path that I'm guessing here
she took Old Mary's Pipe and thenturned right on Raw Creek Road. Yes,

(31:26):
and then followed it all the waydown, because it goes on around,
goes on around, following I'm followingon Google Earth flaw. She goes
by Shallow Cemetery, around the LawCreek Road, on around by Mad Sporting
Goods and Outdoors. Is that stillthere? And then she got on Loomis
Road or Loomis Ridge Road and keepscoming on around to Rising sun Ridge Road

(31:52):
and follows it on around and comesdown eighteen. Because she gets to the
intersection of eighteen and three six exchange, which is Jericho Road, and then
she would have turned left. ThatRalston Road is about it's about a half
a mile or a little more alittle further south of where she come to

(32:13):
that intersection at, so she wouldbe further out of her way. Yeah,
it would have been out of herway. It would have been south
of where she was at, shewould have had to turn right or keep
following unless she got confused for somereason. I'm not gonna say that she
didn't and went on around and infact, well I'm going the wrong direction,
and then pron started going back.Why would Chris say this? I

(32:35):
mean, this is a pretty specificspot that he said he picked her up
at. But are you saying becauseI'm not looking at the maps, are
you saying that that doesn't make anysense what he's saying of where she would
be. That's what I'm saying.Yeah, that's kind of That's what I
was getting at too, Like,unless she was disoriented or got lost in
the dark, which her being bornand raised around this area, I don't
think she's getting lost out there,you know, unless she's disoriented or something.

(32:59):
But I agree with Alan, Likethat's what I was getting to is
that's completely that would make no sensefor her to take that if she's heading
to the family farm and she ranthat road a lot in the car,
so I don't think she'd be lost. Okay, Okay, So that's interesting
because I'm wondering why he was sospecific back then as to at this why

(33:21):
intersection and near this road? Ifthat's not even near the road she'd be
on, but he says it wason Jericho Road. So you can get
to this road from Jericho right,Yeah, branches off to the east,
okay, if you're heading north onJericho, Ralston Hill Road goes off to
the right, which would be towardsthe east, and then it kind of

(33:43):
swoops up and connects to deer WalkHighway, which is thirty one. Okay,
So it branches off to the eaststreet and then kind of goes up
to the northeast and then north andconnects with deer Walk. So is it
possible that he said he was drivingon Jericho Road and that's where he picked
her. So is he saying thatI was driving on Jericho and I picked
her up near Ralston Road where itcurves off. Is that likely? Yeah?

(34:07):
I don't say that she could beanywhere. Okay, thank you,
Okay, yeah, that's what justinthank too. Yeah, Hi, Melissa,
I'll take a screenshot of all thisis kind to map it out and
spend it take you here in aminute. And so yeah, because it's
because like Laurel Creek is like northwestyea, and Ralston is southeast of road

(34:30):
Okay, So then that clearly doesn'tmake any sense. It makes absolutely no
sense. Well, this is whywe do this, right, So that
doesn't make any sense. Interesting,Okay, yeah, send it to me.
I'm directionally challenged everyone. So whereverI face this north, I could
be looking north here, north here, So I don't know. I wonder

(34:50):
why he picked that as the waythat he picked her out. Interesting,
Well, the real question would beto map it out from whatever bar he
was at and see if that makessense for him as a route to where
he was going, because if he'sheading north on Jericho, there's no reason
to go. You're gonna have tobe heading in the opposite direction of the
family farm. If you're gonna hitRolston, and she's seen on Laurel Creek

(35:14):
or right there on the fourth theLaurel Fork, he's heading in the opposite
direction of home. Yeah. Whenhe took us, when he took coloring
of them, he was from thebar. He took Jericho Road, right
how Yeah? Yeah, but whereis the bar located on fifty l on
fifty, then that would make sensehe's gonna pass Roston then, Okay,

(35:38):
That's what I was saying, ishe probably come from that bar off of
fifty, and he got off onJericho, Yes, out there, and
he followed Jericho back to where hewas going. Yeah. Yes, Raston
may have been the only road thatpopped in his head and that's the one
he used. Yeah, and itwould be it would be a good back
way to take to where he wasgoing to if the bar was on fifty.

(36:02):
That's what he done. He comeback, he got off on a
Jericho exit or whatever, and ittook Jericho Road, ye, that direction.
But in the part that we're talkingabout, me and Alan are both
on the same page with us,Like he would have passed Rolston Road for
sure. But if she's seen onLaurel Creek or you know that Laurel Fork

(36:25):
that is in the complete opposite directionin relation to Jericho Road in the family
farm, that's like he would havepassed Rolston most definitely if he's ding,
if he's heading home, to behonest, like he even if he took
Rolston, it would make more sensebecause it looks like a smaller road probably
acquired or especially if he's drinking andit's going to lead him to the same

(36:46):
place. But if Judy is seenon Laurel Canyon or Laurel Creek. Keeps
saying Laurel Canyon. Um, ifshe's seen on Laurel Canyon, like she
would have had to backtrack walked pastthe arm down to Jericho and Ralston where
he supposedly saw her, and shewould have already been at the farm,

(37:07):
like she would have damn near walkedright by it. Okay, interesting,
yeah on the messengers. All right, great, I'll definitely to post that
in our Facebook group, so peoplewhoever is not you know, on here
when the episode drops can look atit too. So yeah, thank you.
I'm so actually challenged. It's interestingthough, once you see it,

(37:30):
you'll get exactly what we're saying.Yeah, yeah, because I had the
route that she took in my head. So now I'm trying to figure out
where is Ralston in comparison to Isthat the place he just pinpointed? But
you think that today he would takeus to the same spot, right,
it's a road, yeah yeah,but he didn't. Okay, all right,

(37:55):
well we'll start popping on that.See, everyone is in this spot.
This is what we do. Wejust go around and round and round.
Welcome to our episode.