SO EP:656 Bigfoot And The Doctor

In this episode of the Bigfoot podcast, the host welcomes Dr. Hogan Sherrow, an evolutionary anthropologist with a profound interest in Sasquatch. They discuss their respective experiences with Bigfoot sightings, ecological overlaps between Sasquatch and black bears, and the challenges of distinguishing between scientific research and personal belief systems in the Bigfoot community.

The episode includes detailed recounts of recent encounters during the filming of the upcoming documentary 'My Bigfoot Life,' highlighting the emotional and physical challenges of documenting such phenomena in remote terrains. They also emphasize the importance of skepticism and scientific inquiry in Bigfoot research.

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00:00 Introduction and Casual Catch-Up 01:07 Upcoming Bigfoot Conference 02:06 Guest Introduction: Dr. Hogan Sherrow 03:58 Bigfoot: The Superhero of Cryptids 06:16 Skepticism and Misidentifications 15:27 Overlap Between Sasquatch and Bear Ecology 24:52 Personal Experiences and Documentary Filming 32:28 Encounter in the Dark 33:26 Regrouping and Planning 34:06 Strange Sounds in the Woods 34:54 Eye Shine and Pursuit 37:50 Emotional Aftermath 38:40 Debrief and Reflection 41:44 Skepticism and Belief 56:00 Scientific Inquiry vs. Belief 59:43 Closing Thoughts and Future Plans

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/sasquatch-odyssey--4839697/support.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Today, I want to tell you about a journey that
I've been on for most of my life. Ever since
I was a kid, I've heard tales of Bigfoot and
wild men while spending time with my friends and family.
As I grew older and read more about the paranormal,
my interest in encryptids and other things strange only deepened.
That's why I'm so excited to share with you what
I've personally become involved with the Untold Radio Network. The

(00:21):
Untold Radio Network is a live streaming podcast network that
airs a new show every day across all podcast platforms, YouTube,
and more. They have eight different shows on all sorts
of exciting topics such as bigfoot, cryptids, UFOs, aliens, and
much more. I even have my own show called Weird Encounters,
where I talk about all things strange. This is more

(00:42):
than just a podcast network. It's a community that allows
me to meet so many amazing people who share their
stories and experiences with strange. If you're interested in hearing
more of these stories and learning more about the paranormal encryptids,
make sure you check out the Untold Radio Network for
all kinds of exciting shows. It's free to subscribe. So
what are you waiting for visit www dot untold radionetwork

(01:05):
dot com today.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
Now, what are your reporting? I got a screen going
on here. Something just kid with my dog, something to
kill your dog? My dog. We're flying through there, over
the tree. I don't know how it did it? Okay, Damn,
I'm really confused. All I saw was my dog coming
over the fence, and name was dead once you hit
the ground. I didn't see any cars. All I saw
was my dog coming over the fence. Sat, what are

(01:45):
you reporting? We got some wonder or something crawling around
out here? Did you see what it was? It was
enough out here. Look, I'm new to one doowing now
and I don't need anything. I don't want to go
out tonight. FA Hello, hit the buddy out here? What

(02:12):
went on out there? I thought of a bit of
about sixty nine. I don't know easy. I'm out there.

Speaker 1 (02:17):
Yeah, I'm walking right, heady, doctor Hogan, chirou, welcome to
my friend. What's going on now?

Speaker 3 (02:24):
Much? Just hanging out in Oregon, hoping that it doesn't
get too hot, being thankful that the forest fires aren't
getting too crazy out here yet. How are you doing?

Speaker 1 (02:33):
I'm hanging in like a hair and a biscuit man.
And it is definitely not hot here in North Carolina.
I've been freaking cold the last couple of days. I
think it dropped down in mid fifties last night overnight,
which is great. I run every day. I ran six
miles yesterday and I probably could have ran another twelve
miles because it was so freaking cool outside. It felt amazing.

(02:54):
But we've had the wettest summer I think we've ever
had in the history of the world that I can remember.
It's rained every freaking day for four months. It's impossible
to do anything outside, and we live outside and do
everything outside. The weather is what it is. We can
get into the conversation maybe someday about climate change and
global warming whatever makes this the wedd Is summer ever

(03:17):
and the coolest it's been in a long time. I
think it's going to be like in the seventies over
the next week or so. I'm definitely looking forward to that.
But I'm leaving town this weekend as we record this.
If you guys are listening to this, on Friday, I
am in Pennsylvania at the Central PA Bigfoot Conference slash Festival.
I'm going to be hanging out with a bunch of
good friends of mine that are coming over from the UK.

(03:38):
I've got Daniel and his father, Craig coming over. The
Barnettes will be in town. Ryan rpgu Go and Beskie
will be there. There's a host of other speakers. If
you're in that area and you just happen to be
listening to us, grab your ticket and stop by and
see us. There's going to be tons of people out
there vending. I think the speaker area is inside, so
I think you actually have to pay to access that part.

(03:59):
But you can't just go shop the vendors and have
a good time. I've never been to that, but I'm
looking forward to hanging out with Gwen from Gotten Knockers,
who is the organizer of that, and Mike, her husband.
Great people up there in Pennsylvania. I'm definitely looking forward
to that. But that's not why we're here. You've been
on the show before, we've had some conversations about Bigfoot.
For posterity sake, and for those who have memories like mine,

(04:21):
I don't remember what had for breakfast, so they may
not remember who you are. Why don't you give us
a little bit of the dime store tour, the elevator
pitch for doctor Hogan chirou Sure.

Speaker 3 (04:32):
So I'm an organ boy, grew up in the woods
with a hunting and fishing guide as a father, former
marine who used to like to take us up, spend
us around ten times and then tell us, okay, tell
me how you get home from here. And I guess
that's kind of where my interest in the woods and
animals started. Went to college, went on and got my

(04:54):
PhD in evolutionary anthropology and studied everything from grizzly bears
and gray wolves here in the Pacific Northwest to chimpanzees
in East Africa. Spent some time with cheetahs in Southern
Africa and gibbons and Asia. So I've been in lots
of forests and lots of areas around the world, but

(05:14):
my specialty is really in the evolution of behavior in humans,
our hominin ancestors, and our closest relatives. My PhD was
focusing on chimpanzee behavioral ecology, and I taught for a
while at a university that have consulted for years. Have
always had an interest in all things squatchy. That's why

(05:38):
I reached out to you originally, and I'm excited to
be here chatting with you today about some of this stuff.

Speaker 1 (05:43):
Yeah, man, I've been looking forward to this. I love
to have conversations with people smarter than I am. That's
how I learned things. And I also like to have
conversations with people that disagree with me. I think that's
where the growth happens. If we constantly have conversations with
everybody who's drinking the big foot kool aid, we never
get anywhere. So I love these of conversations. I'm sure
will agree, probably more than we disagree. But one of

(06:04):
the things that I was fascinated with that you brought up,
I think in one of our first conversations, and I
want to get into it here today to start with,
is a great place. In my opinion, it's a springboard
for a lot of the experiences people have with bigfoot sasquatch,
harry man, bushman, whatever you call them, wherever you happen
to be, whatever the nomenclature for you in your area is.

(06:25):
We're talking about the same thing here, and it's this
super hero thing that accompanies these descriptions of these encounters.
It's one of the things that we talked about before,
is these things seem to be the biggest, the baddest,
the fastest, the strongest, the loudest. They're the everything ist
that has anything to do with the animal kingdom, and

(06:46):
that doesn't make sense in any other capacity. I think
recently I was on another podcast as a guest, and
I was talking about this very thing and how it
baffles me. And I think I compared an elephant and
a cheetah. Right, Cheetah's one of, if not the fastest
animal on Earth. Elephant's one of the biggest animals that's
ever been on the Earth currently on the Earth. I

(07:09):
think the largest elephant that I read something about recently
was back in the early nineties. It was a big
bull elephant. He weighed twenty six thousand pounds. Enormous creature, right,
But you take those two animals and they're amazing in
and of themselves, But if you compare them side by side,
there's nothing there that really overlaps at all. Elephants are big,

(07:33):
they're heavy, they're strong, they're powerful, they're loud. Cheetahs are fleek,
they're built for speed, they're killing machines. And when you
get into the bigfoot sasquatch thing. I've had my own
encounters with these things, and I'm sure we're going to
talk about at some point. When you compare these to
say a sasquatch encounter. Sasquatch are always the fastest, they

(07:55):
move the fastest, they're the biggest, they're the loudest. Their
vocalization you feel them before you hear them. People think
they're able to emit infrasound, very similar to animals like
elephants and big cats. But they're like the superhero of cryptids,
and that never has made sense to me. I tend
to stay in the lane of flesh and blood, the

(08:16):
scientific approach to this research, But I think what that
does the longer I stay in this and I think
this happens with a lot of people in the subject.
Instead of sticking with the science and just saying, Okay,
there's no way this creature could exist, so none of
that makes any sense, it's all bullshit. I don't believe that.
Because I've seen these creatures. I know they exist. So

(08:37):
I have to then evaluate is there something often the
sauce with the person or persons who experience that. Maybe
it was adrenaline, Maybe it was fear. Maybe it was
something else in the encounter. I've said it before. I
think maybe these things might have been six feet tall
and they grew three feet or they became ten feet

(08:58):
tall because of the fear and adrenaline. They disappeared. Maybe
it didn't disappear, Maybe it just blended with its environments.
The list goes on and on. There's a litany of things.
Where are you on this given your background, given your knowledge,
training and experience, your degree in the subject, how do
you reconcile that in your brain as a scientist. Are

(09:21):
you one of these people that dismiss a whole cloth
or do you think there could be something more to
some of these signings.

Speaker 3 (09:27):
I have a saying that I've used for decades showing
my age. I never say never or always in biology.
As soon as you do, then someone goes and catches
a ceilacant off the custom Atagascar, and your whole theory
is screwed. So I always leave the possibility open. I
am definitely a hardcore skeptic based on my education, training,

(09:50):
and understanding about ap coology, et cetera, which we can
get into more detail when it comes to the superhero stuff.
I brought that up originally because as I was getting
more and more in to more recent sasquatch stories and things,
I was noticing just that through line of people talking about, Oh,
it was so powerful, it did things that humans could

(10:12):
never do. A five hundred pound rock came flying past
our truck and it was at least ten feet tall.
We went out to the tree and measured it was
at least that tall. It ran faster than any animal
possibly could. I recently heard someone say there's nothing in
North America that could outrun a sasquatch. Considering pronghorn antelope

(10:33):
can hit about sixty miles an hour, that's an impressive claim.
And I am definitely if sasquatch exists, definitely a flesh
and blood guy. If it exists, in my opinion, it's
an ape of some sort. But we need to figure
that out. But when we look at I love your
example of elephants and cheetahs because what they do have
in common is their mammalian ancestry. They're both mammals, both

(10:56):
give birth to live young, both nurse them, both have
some sort of hair on their bodies. But you're right,
when you just look at them, that's where a lot
of the similarities. And one of the other things with
cheetahs is one of the compromises that's happened in cheetah
evolution to get that fast is that they're incredibly fragile.

(11:19):
So cheetahs don't take any risks when it comes to hunting.
When it comes to defending food, if a larger predator
comes along, a cheetah will just take off because it
can outrun that predator, but it can't outfight it. Its
bones are more fragile, and really all predators are risk
averse that way, but cheetah's more so than most elephants.

(11:39):
On the other hand, I mean, there are certain groups
that traditionally hunted elephants. They would process elephants from the
inside out because it was easier to cut through their
stomach and get the guts out and start working from
the inside that it was cutting through their hide. That's
how tough their height is. And while an elephant can

(12:01):
outrun a human if it wants to for a short distance,
it's pretty much done for the rest of the day.
You said that you're running five or six miles a day.
An elephant's not doing that with you. An elephant's walking
that slowly because their body requires so much food. There
are these kind of principles in evolution, things like niche separation,

(12:21):
which is what gets you from a mammalian ancestor to
eventually cheetahs and elephants, dolphins and otters and everything else.
But there's also life history theory is a pretty powerful
tool in biological studies. It really talks about finite resources.
There are finite resources and whether those are food, water,

(12:45):
or resources for evolution, so ability to develop certain parts
of your body. What happens is this kind of trade off.
There's almost a cost benefit analysis that happens unconsciously organisms
depending on the niche that they've separated, and to use
their resources in different ways. Humans were a great example.

(13:07):
We're sitting here talking to each other from three thousand
miles away on computers that our big gass brains have developed,
but we all know that physically, I don't care if
there's one hundred of us, we're no match for a gorilla.
It's just not happening. Those are trade offs that have
happened over the course of human evolution. Developed that big brain,

(13:29):
we put less investment into our physical abilities. So when
I hear these stories of like you said, the superhero
of cryptids, right, where all of those boxes are checked.
Some of those folks will say, and they're as smart
as humans, or they're close to as smart as humans,
and they're stronger than a gorilla, and they're faster than

(13:50):
a cheetah, and they're that's in there, and that's biologically.
We have just never seen that happen with an organism ever.
Of the million millions of species that have existed, we've
never seen one that checks all the boxes. So for me,
I think you're on the right track. I think that
what happens is people's perception when they're having these experiences,

(14:15):
it gets distorted without them realizing it. I think of
the old fishing stories. How big was the fishit you caught?
Oh yeah, that sucker was at least two feet long.
You caught an eat inch bass. That's a nice bass,
but it wasn't a record center. I have friends who
have been hunting for thirty years who come back talking

(14:35):
about biggest buck I've ever seen. Oh my god, I
thought it was an elk when it came through the woods.
I have been with them. Had it happen where guys
talking about the biggest buck run into the same deer.
Nice four point. It's not the largest deer that's ever lived.
I'm not saying this to disparage anyone. I think that

(14:57):
it's a natural thing that happens in our brains, and
actually I think it may be an adaptation. It may
be something that's evolved that protects us.

Speaker 1 (15:07):
And stay tuned for more sasquat chotasy. We'll be right
back after these messages.

Speaker 3 (15:16):
If you see something you can't explain and your brain
tells you, hey is big and it is dangerous, you're
more likely to survive that encounter than if your brain goes, hey,
go boop it on the nose. It's really cute, go
cuddle with it. You hear stories of the folks who
get into the historical stuff, and you talk about the

(15:39):
old newspaper articles. We ever read some of those same
time period articles about run ins with grizzly bears, and
grizzly bears in North America were if you would just
go by those articles, they were ten feet tall. They
were gigantic. There's no grizzly bear in the world that's
that big. Again, let's not to say that those folks

(16:00):
are lying that those folks are making something up intentionally,
and it may not be an adaptation, may just be
a byproduct of our creative brains.

Speaker 1 (16:09):
I think what happens with a lot of people in
this subject, and it certainly happened to me at least
on some level over the last year or so, is
most of us don't have the understanding of biology, evolution
and all the things that you just talked about. What
happens is and this is what I've heard from so
many people over the years. The longer you stay in

(16:30):
this the more wo or high strangeness you tend to go,
because the flesh and blood thing makes less and less
sense the more encounter stories that you hear. At some point,
it can't be the smartest, the biggest, the fastest, the
everything is on earth. So you start looking at other things.
Could it be interdimensional? Could it be sent here by aliens?

(16:54):
Could it be something that's supernatural? And I think that's
the dangerous slippery slope for a lot of people in
this is they start to abandon science for other explanations
that will fill in the gaps in some of the
things that don't make sense. I think that's one of
the things we have to be very careful of. I too,

(17:16):
am guilty of it at times because I've seen things
in my own experiences that don't make sense to me,
which we'll talk a little bit about here shortly. You
mentioned something that I want to expand on a little bit,
which is the overlap or the alleged overlap in sasquatch
sightings and ecology versus bear ecology and what that means

(17:38):
for some of these sightings in your opinion, do you
think that there could be or is an overlap? And
this is something that's come up multiple times with doctor
Jeff Meldrum. He often compares if there's black bear in
the area, there could be sasquatch in the area in
his opinion, because that ecology and that biology and what

(18:00):
they would need to survive is very similar in his opinion.
What's say you on this alleged overlap or this overlap
of the alleged sasquatch encounters and the bear ecology and
where bears are currently residing. Let's just use the lower
forty eight.

Speaker 3 (18:16):
Yeah, it's absolutely let's be restricted to that, because once
we go north, it's a whole different conversation. What's interesting
to me because most of the ecology that people describe
for sasquatch when they're describing it these days, it's basically
a bear ecology. They describe as large carnivores. Bears are
technically large carnivores. So black bears are definitely straight omnivores

(18:41):
and spend a huge part of their time surviving off
of berries, grubs, or roots, all sorts of things. That's
in late terms how I like to describe omnivores. Just
eat whatever they can, right, They eat whatever will sustain
them that they can digest. I've had sightings myself. I've
seen bear had It happened two years ago while I

(19:04):
was deer hunting. I saw this massive black animal for
about seventy five yards away disappearing into the bush. From
that diston, with the broken foliage that I was looking through,
I could have easily thought, WHOA, I was a huge
sasquatch that ran into the woods. Being the open minded

(19:28):
biologist I am, I was like, all right, walk your
ass over there and check out the tracks and see
see if you can find any side. And so I did,
and sure enough found some really nice black bear tracks
stuffed up a little bit and followed them for a
little bit to see if I could get another view.
It's also bear season here, Walle, it's deer season. I

(19:49):
don't hut bears, but it definitely was that size because
it didn't stick around when humans have rifles. That got
me thinking. First off, we can talk about the sighting stuff,
but kind of overlap. And I know Jeff. I have
great respect for Jeff. I really like it. I think
he's just top notch when it comes to especially to anatomy,

(20:10):
evolution of anatomical structures, things like that. I think, respectfully,
I disagree with him on his assessment day where there
are black bears that are probably sasquatch, because again in biology,
we don't see where large organisms share ecological niches even
if one's active during the day and one's active during

(20:31):
the night. Black bears are active during both the day
and the night, primarily day, but they move around at
night too. Obviously, all the reports from sas fast watches
out there they are primarily active at night, but they
operate during the day too. To me, that just doesn't
match biologically. Ecologically, it doesn't line up. You'd have to
have some sort of real niche separation between the two

(20:55):
for those two speakings to coexist, especially at their body size,
because they're gonna wipe out resources if they're both in
the same areas doing that. But I do think the
bear phenomenon is something that we really should think about
when we're thinking about sightings and things like that, especially
when you hear these kind of fleeting sidings. Because my

(21:16):
anecdotal story is a great example of that. When someone
says I saw some huge black animal move off, let's
not jump to something that we don't know for sure.
If it's out there, we'll talk about your stuff when
you want to. But my opinion is let's stay conservative.
We know black bears are out there, so that's probably
what it was. Again, I think ecologically it just doesn't

(21:38):
work for me. Jeff and I actually a couple of
years ago went around and around respectfully about it, where
I was like, so explain to me this because we
don't see this. You don't see another large carnivore where
there are tigers, and tigers are hunting mostly at night
and there's a daytime large carnivore that's operating filling that
same niche. So, yeah, that's where I stand on it.

Speaker 1 (22:00):
It makes sense I've said, I think that some of
the anecdotal experiences people have our most likely misidentifications. I
certainly don't think that everybody who's ever purported to have
seen a sasquatch actually saw one. I think there are
misidentifications that happen. It's easy to do. It's easy to
get scared startled when you see a big black mass

(22:22):
moving away, and most people don't do what you did,
which was go towards where you saw this thing and
find follow up traces of what it could have been
ie footprints that turned out to be a black bear.
I see a large black mass moving off into the
tree line, I go where said black mass enter the

(22:44):
tree line, and wow, there's black bear. Prance, you put
all the totality of the circumstances together, you saw black bear.
Most people don't do that. They just assume that whatever
that was, whatever their brain immediately goes to, whether it
was a bear or a asquatch. For them, that's what
it is, and that's what the story is for the
remainder of their life. But that's the difference I think

(23:07):
in you and the rest of the world, or me
and the rest of the world, is most people aren't
into those kind of things, so they're not going to
do that, and it just continues to be perpetuated as
a siding of bigfoot or it was just a black bear.
I would imagine that it's probably happened in the past
that somebody might have seen a sasquatch and thought it

(23:28):
was a black bear and just dismissed it as Oh,
I saw this big black bear when I was out there.
I've heard those stories that initially people thought that's what
they saw, and then they investigated and they found different results,
more human like foot prints that were larger, those kind
of things.

Speaker 3 (23:43):
My buddies and I used to talk when we were younger. Hey,
if you ever did run into a bigfoot, if they're
out there, what do you think you'd do. It's one
of those fun thought experiments to ask people to hear
where their mind is and what their personal perception is.
The reality is most of us are gonna stay far
away from that, cause, again, your brain is screaming at you.

(24:06):
You don't know what that thing is, you don't know
how dangerous that thing is, Get the hell away. I
think part of what it may be my training in
being in the field with large animals, having been charged
by elephants more than seven times in my life. It
may also just be a natural fascination by me. We're
having that discussion one time, that theoretical discussion. I said, well,

(24:29):
it's not theoretical for me, and they said what, And
I said. I was hunting one time. I saw this
thing that I couldn't explain what it was. I would
literally have my scope upon it. I was looking at it.
I still couldn't explain what it was. It looked like
a hair covered head in the woods that was maybe
a little taller than I am. I don't know what
that is. I pulled my scope, I cranked it up

(24:49):
high power. It still couldn't get a good view of it.
So I finally went, you know what, forget it and
just walked straight towards it, because I'm like, if it
is a sasquatch and it decided to kill me, here's
a fun way to go. This is gonna be a
great story for my fam I had a hunting buddy,
maybe just like two hundred yards away, so he knew
right where I was. So it's like, I'm not gonna

(25:10):
be one of those who just disappears. I'm gonna be found.
It was a stump squatch. I found the exact stump.
It was one of those where, Okay, I'd answered that
question for myself. It may not benefit me someday, But
when I decided to do that, When I hear a
growl in the African forest and I decide to go
check it out and ends up being a big ass
lion or something, it's something that I think you're right.

(25:31):
I think most people they're not going to be bothered
with going over there. They're not going to go to
the frustration or exhaustion or pain of fighting through the
foliage you may have to, or getting through the brush
to get over there. Whatever the case is. They're driving by,
they got to get home, whatever the situation. I think
they don't take the time those two particular cases, I

(25:52):
had the time I could do it, so I did it.
I think that kind of goes to what I hope
us having these conversations we'll get folks to do a
little bit more. I love the kind of citizen science
approach that's happening, that kind of crowdsourcing that's going on
with ideas and stuff around the sasquatch phenomenon. Part of

(26:12):
the reason I'm interested in getting more involved than this
is because I really want folks to go okay. So
it's one thing to be a bird watcher, it's another
thing to be an ornithologist or a bird scientist, right
you Like, you can go out and bird watch all
day long and you get some great information on western
meadow lark is in this area, or whatever the case is.

(26:34):
But to get deeper into understanding behavioral ecology, the evolution
of organisms, those sort of things, there's some methods that
can be employed that help people get that kind of
more objective and more scientific perspective on things.

Speaker 1 (26:51):
I know you had some questions about my experiences and
my transformation from being very skeptical most of the time.
I was fifty to fifty at best on whether these
things were real or not leading up to some of
the experiences I had in Radium back in twenty twenty
three and then last summer in the Pacific Northwest. Did
you have specific questions or things that you wanted to

(27:15):
get into in relation to those experiences.

Speaker 3 (27:19):
First stuff, I just want to start nuts and both
stuff like you had talked about. There's a documentary that's
coming out. I don't know if it's been released yet.
I just wanted to know that so I know where
we're at talking about these six Yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:32):
So the documentary is not out yet. My understanding is
it should be out by the end of the year.
We're talking the next three to four months. I'm not
sure exactly when that's going to be. But yes, we
were filming that documentary. It started in the United Kingdom
and we ended the filming over in the Pacific Northwest,
specifically in Washington State. We were actually working out of

(27:55):
the Olympic Project Headquarters was our base of operations when
we were in that area filming once we'd moved out
of the Seattle area.

Speaker 3 (28:03):
Cool. Yeah, So I don't know what you can talk
about and what you can talk about at this point.
With all of that, I haven't had a chance to hear.
What was the tipping point for you?

Speaker 1 (28:13):
It started on the first full day we were there
doing some scouting in an area that we wanted to
do night filming. We knew we were going to go
out at least one night, possibly too, but we didn't
want to go in blind. We wanted to go into
an area that we were somewhat familiar with. The terrain
because we had twelve to fifteen people in to was

(28:35):
a huge group of people, including two camera men with
one hundred thousand dollars plus camera rigs that they were
dragging into the woods. We wanted to take them into
an area where we could do serious research and get
some hopefully good footage of what we were doing, but
for everybody to be safe. Obviously, we didn't want to
damage these hundred thousand dollars plus cameras. So we were

(28:58):
doing the first day we went out, we'd separated because
we were behind scheduled. There were some things that happened
early on and when you see the documentary it's called
My Bigfoot Life, you'll see what happened over in the
United Kingdom that set us back multiple days. So everything
was compacted as far as the schedule was concerned, so

(29:18):
we had to split up go our different ways. Part
of the team went one way. I was part of
the team that was doing the scouting that day for
the night shoot, while some of the other team was
doing other things, filming some b roll and other stuff.
So we get out into this area and we started
hearing whistling in the woods.

Speaker 3 (29:35):
I'm not a.

Speaker 1 (29:35):
Whistler, but it was basically, if you just picture up,
you're trying to get your friends attention that little kind
of whistle. Hey, I'm over here. We were hearing that
in the woods. We stopped. We're following it as it's
following us. It's moving, the sounds moving, and we get
to an area where there was a bridge over this
little small creek area upon this embankment was some really

(29:58):
large trees in this area, old growth forest. It's in
a protected area, so nobody's been logging in there for
hundreds of years, so most of the trees are pretty big.
And stay tuned for more sasquatch oat to see. We'll
be right back after these messages. Looking in that area

(30:18):
where we had heard this whistle, and I see something
peak around the side of a tree. It's probably seventy
five eighty yards away. It was a really quick peak.
I'm talking split second, less than a second. Happened three times,
but I saw a face. I saw what looked like
a dark face with eyes just peeking around the tree.

(30:39):
Saw that three times. I drew everybody's attention to that area.
Everybody started looking. We didn't hear the whistling anymore. So
we're now focused on trying to see what was peaking
around this tree. It was in an area where we
weren't comfortable trying to access. It was very inhospitable terrain.
It was not something that we felt at that moment.

(31:00):
As much as I wanted to go investigate, it just
didn't seem safe and a good use of our time.
So we moved on. We went on, finished up our
scouting of the area, found some areas that we knew
we wanted to go into. We had found some I
can't remember what type of nuts they were, but we
found some piles of nuts that looked like something had

(31:21):
sat there and had a snack or a meal. Very interesting.
We didn't find any of the nuts or a tree
that had the nuts anywhere in the area, so they
looked like they had been brought there. I have to
ask Chris. Chris knew exactly what kind of nuts they were.
He actually somehow managed to get them through customs and
back into the United Kingdom, and he still had them
because he was convinced that a sasquatch had been eating them,

(31:44):
so he took some of the husks back with him
as a souvenir. Hopefully he won't get arrested in the
UK for that. We went on and found this area.
We went out that night and did our night shoot
and that's when we had two more encounters with these
things happened very similarly. We were hearing this whistling noise
that was drawing our attention to this area in the woods.

(32:07):
Bobo was there and he had his thermal, and he
and Daniel, this kid who at the time was fourteen
when this happened. They were passing the thermal back and
forth and they're seeing some heat signatures. At first it
was one, then it was a larger heat signature. Bobo
turns around and asks the group me, Ryan, Chris, and

(32:28):
there was a couple of other people and of course
the two cameramen were there. He said, there's a huge
heat signature and he points to this area. We estimated
it was probably thirty to fifty yards into the woods.
He's like, who's going to go out there? Of course
I'm going it's possibly a bigfoot. I'm gonna go. So
I went started walking towards that area. I actually have

(32:49):
the thermal footage. It's about ten or twelve minutes of
thermal I think Obviously it hasn't been released hip because
the documentary's not out. Once the documentary comes out, I
fully intend to release this thermal because we called some
very interesting images. I'll just leave it at that. So
I'm walking to this area where I was hearing this whistling.
Now the whistling stops, but I'm letting them basically guide me.

(33:12):
They're looking through the thermal and they're saying, go this way,
go that way. It's right there, it's about so and
so in front of you. You should be in that area.
And I started hearing some weird sounds. I've described it
as it almost sounded like picking up two or three
large river rocks and like juggling them around in your hand.

(33:34):
You know that noise they make when they hit together, right, Well,
that's what it sounded like. It's weird to describe that.
I don't know what that could be or why I
was hearing this noise, but I was hearing this noise,
and I was hearing faint what sounded like something possibly walking.
I think I heard a snap of a twig, but

(33:55):
not a lot of noise. Right, So I'm walking towards
where the noise is and I get to an area
where this is thick. It's really thick. There's so much deadfall,
it's unbelievable. There was so much deadfall, in fact, that
the guys who were filming us, the two guys on
the camera crew, couldn't make it in with the rigs.
Everything that we filmed from that point forward in the

(34:15):
woods had to be done on GoPros and a handheld
camera that Ryan rpg Gill and Beskie bought back in
like nineteen ninety four, And the only reason he had
it with him is because it was handheld and it
had night vision.

Speaker 3 (34:29):
Right.

Speaker 1 (34:30):
So, I'm walking in this area here in these little noises,
I'm hearing this weird clacking river rock sound. And I
get to an area where there's a little bit of
an opening in front of me. It looks like a
game trail, maybe three four feet wide. And I'm looking
up this area and I hear something walking, so I
fling on my flashlight because I was walking in the

(34:50):
dark up until this point. I threw my flashlight on
and this thing crosses across the trail in front of me,
probably twenty feet in front of him, this big, dark,
hairy figure. I could see from the top of the
head basically to I don't know, maybe midchest. It's got

(35:12):
its arms back like you're making a motion to go
a different direction, and its face is turned away from me.
I'm shining my flashlight on this thing's back, and I'm like,
holy shit, this thing just crossed the trail twenty feet
in front of me. So of course I said something like,
holy shit, this thing just crossed in front of me.
They hear me. Chris is starting to come into the

(35:34):
area at this point, He's a screw it. Brian's been
in there long enough by himself. Chris, he's starting to
come up here now. Chris is I don't know, six'
four two, ten Former queen's, guard big, dude, right he's
coming trapsing up behind, ME i. Hear and we go
back and regroup With bobo and them and, said, look
this is what. Happened this is WHAT i. Saw we're

(35:55):
going to follow this direction because it was headed from
my left to right across this. Trail so everybody goes
into the. Woods and by, EVERYBODY i mean it was, Me, RYAN, Rpg,
daniel his, Dad, craig And. Chris we go into the.
Woods chris AND i are Together daniel And ryan And

(36:15):
craig are in another. Group we get to a certain
point in the woods Where i'm a little bit off
to the. Left ryan is over. Here Then chris AND
i get to an area where we stop and we're,
listening And i've got it on. Audio i've listened back
to the. AUDIO i wasn't miked for this, part BUT
i had my audio going in my pocket AND i
had a little mic that was clipped, on So i'm recording.

(36:37):
THIS i haven't listened to the audio to hear if
this is on the, audio but you can Hear chris
AND i talking about this. Sound it sounded like something
jumped out of a tree and landed on the. Ground
it was like this. Thud And chris is, LIKE i
heard this. THUD i, SAID i heard the same. Thing
it sounded like something jumped out of a. Tree it
was really. Weird we're talking about. That we're hearing some more.

(36:59):
Cracking we're hearing something that sounds like it's moving from
left to right above. US i get to an area
Where i'm by myself and walk off From. Chris chris
goes back and he's With daniel And craig are all
in one, area And ryan is milling around behind us
doing this. THING i Hear daniel SAY i see eye.
SHINE i see eye, shine and he's pointing up this.

(37:22):
Ridge SO i look where he's. POINTING i move almost
even with, them and THEN i walk a few. Steps
i'm probably eight or ten feet in front of. Him
at this POINT i SEE i don't know how to
describe it other than a big set of glowing white
eyes and they're swaying back and. Forth it's almost like
if you listen to enough anecdotal experiences from people seeing,

(37:44):
sasquatch it's almost like. THAT i hate to use the,
term but it's like an autistic person sways back and,
forth that kind of. Movement. Right So i'm watching, this
and then there's another set that's a little bit, smaller
maybe a foot and a half. Below. Oh this set
is a smaller set of what looks like glowing white.
Eyes AND i say glowing because at this point nobody

(38:06):
had any lights. On there was no ambient. Light it
had been, raining it was. OVERCAST i don't think there
was any. MOONLIGHT i couldn't see my hand in front
of my face with our lights. Off we see. This
we're all, like what The and you can see in
the Video i'm in front of. Them you can't really
see my, face but it's Clear i'm trying to figure

(38:27):
out what we're looking. At you can feel the what
the fuck is? That and they. Disappear it's like they drop,
down they just. Go both sets. Gone so at that
point we throw our flashlights. On and when we threw
our flashlights, on almost the exact same thing. Happened that
happens fifteen minutes. BEFORE i see this thing ten feet

(38:51):
now in front of, me cross across the trail and goes.
Up immediately as soon AS i saw, IT i Hear Chris,
Yale oh my, God, oh oh my. GOD i just
saw it move across the. Trail daniel saw, it AND
i take off after. IT i started running full bore
up the side of this, ridge PROBABLY i don't, know
seven to ten percent, grade which doesn't sound like a

(39:13):
lot until you're fifty years old and you're in a
bunch of underbrush and.

Speaker 3 (39:18):
Deadfall, yeah forty five years, old seven to ten percent
is gonna end up being a. Lot, yeah it was a.

Speaker 1 (39:24):
Lot So i'm balls to the wall chasing WHATEVER i
had just. Seen NOW i wasn't seeing it at this.
Point it was. Gone it had crossed the, trail AND
i obviously didn't have my flashlight on. It nobody had
a light on. It i'm chasing this, thing which was.
Dumb in, retrospect it was one of the dumbest Things
i've ever.

Speaker 2 (39:39):
DONE.

Speaker 1 (39:39):
A i'm not going to catch. IT B i could
have been, killed. RIGHT i know that, now but in the,
MOMENT i didn't know what else to. Do it was
fight or, flight AND i was full On i'm gonna
see this thing. Again i'm gonna get as close AS
i can to see this thing one more time and
hopefully get a look at its. Face there was so
much going, on so it's just total. Pandemonium and ka

(40:00):
they start running up behind. Me i'm chasing this. THING
i get to the top of the. Ridge ryan makes
it up. There everybody eventually makes it up. There they start,
filming asking me WHAT i. Saw we start going through
the whole. THING i get super. EMOTIONAL i cried like
a little bitch WHILE i was up, there And i'll
tell you it was. MORE i think it had a
lot to do WITH i had this adrenaline, dump SO

(40:20):
i THINK i had a lot to do with the,
adrenaline BUT i also felt really shitty BECAUSE i doubted
so many people who had explained to me that they
had almost the same thing happened to, them AND i
just rolled my. EYES i was, like these things don't
have glowing. Eyes you weren't ten feet away from a big.
Foot you're full of. Shit and then it happened to,

(40:42):
Me SO i felt like a. DICK i was very
emotional BECAUSE i was, upset adrenaline, pumping AND i had
just seen SOMETHING i didn't think, existed BUT i saw
it with my own, EYES i believe three times in two.
Days that was pretty much the. End after, that we
made our way back down to the rest of the
group that couldn't make it up. There so we're all
standing around doing a. Debrief we get to a point

(41:05):
Where bobo, says in my, experience sometimes when you get
that close to these, things or other people have had
these experiences and they've gotten this close to these, things
sometimes if you'll move, on like the whole group will
move on and somebody hangs, back you'll have an experience
like they'll come back. In AND i was, like that

(41:26):
sounds really. Cool i'd like to have that. Experience i'll
be the one to stay. Back everybody else goes the
two miles back to base camp or. Whatever i'm going
to hang back here by. Myself sounded. Good at the
time we finished the, filming we did a big long
call and some other stuff that you guys can see
in the. Documentary it was really. Cool it was a
really cool moment to have everybody there and just experience

(41:47):
what we had. Experienced so everybody takes off And i'm
standing there And i'm. Fine i'm perfectly fine BECAUSE i
just chase this thing up the hill with no fear at.
ALL i felt zero fear at any point during any
of them UNTIL i was there by, myself AND i
had almost immediate this overwhelming feeling of. Dread you need

(42:10):
to be somewhere, else And i've only felt that a
couple of. Times BUT i knew well enough that it
was time for me to, go SO i started making
my way back. DOWN i was probably ten minutes at
most behind the rest of the, group and WHEN i caught,
Up buba was, like what the hell are you doing down?
HERE i thought you were going to stay, back AND
i was, like your ass can go up. There i'm.

(42:32):
Not he was, like WHAT i told him about the,
Feeling he was, like that's. Weird i've never heard anybody
talking about. THAT i was, like, DUDE i don't know
what it. IS i don't know if it's the post adrenaline.
DUMP i don't know if it's just me psyching myself,
out whatever the case may. Be my gut was telling
me to, go and that's WHAT i. Did buba. Went
he made his way back up. There he stayed up
there for a. While he had no other experiences That

(42:53):
i'm aware. Of he said he didn't hear or see
or feel anything while he was up. There that kind
of drew that to a close to. Me there's no
doubt in my mind WHAT i, saw and it confuses
me to this. Day i'm still trying to process how
all of that. Happened HOW i was so close to
something that. Big we all estimated once we got our

(43:14):
bearings based on the foliage the trees around our. Height
i'm six,' two chris is a little bit taller. Than
me he's about. Six' four this thing had to be
at least seven to seven and a, half feet tall
because that was. Ten feet away ten feet is not,
a great distance and. It was big it was much,
bigger than, me much, bigger much, taller much wider and.

(43:35):
CERTAINLY way hairrier i don't know how to explain. THE
glowing eyes i don't know how to explain being that
close to something that big that didn't make any more noise.
Than it did we heard no vocalizations of any kind
outside of the whistles. That we heard that. Didn't make
sense didn't sound, like a bird didn't sound, like a
cat didn't sound like any Other animal that. I'd ever

(43:55):
heard it sounded like a person whistling to. Get our
attention that's exactly what. It sounded like that's pretty much it. Man,
THE experience again i don't know what else.

Speaker 3 (44:04):
IT could be i gotta SAY that when, i heard
you when you GOT back and i was listening to
this pod With you and wayne and you were, TALKING
about it i gotta say that it's probably the thing
that has shaken my skepticism, more than anything BECAUSE you and.
I have talked, i TRUST you and i, trust YOUR

(44:25):
perception and i know how skeptical you were. In the past,
so for me it's just like even sparked my interest Even,
More of okay now this is a REAL mystery that
i need to help dive into IN whatever. Way i
can because when, You said listen i'm now in, THE
knower camp, i, was like whoa that's, heavy FOR me

(44:49):
and i know it. IS for you i know that's
not a light statement. That you make so thanks for sharing, that,
with ME because, LIKE i said i, was just like,
Wait a second brian knows. What, HE saw man i
got to rethink some. Of this stuff.

Speaker 1 (45:04):
Stay tuned for. More sasquat chotasy we'll be right back.
AFTER these messages.

Speaker 3 (45:12):
I gotta say when it comes to the, GLOWING eyes thing,
i Don't know but i'm not a big believer that
bioluminescence would even be possible. For, a primate honestly there's
nothing like. That in primates, to get eyeshine you got
to go back fifty five million years in primate evolution
to get to. And modern day. We're talking lemurs we're

(45:33):
talking stuff that's separated from our lineage by fifty to fifty.
Five billion years that part. IS really hard i love, when,
people say all we see it in other parts of. The,
animal world yeah we see it with, things like jellyfish
we see it with shit that's so far removed from
human it's almost an alien. SPECIES to us i say
that intentionally because that thing gets people into that jump

(45:56):
off of the woo thing and, all OF that which
i don't. BUY into either i think that there's probably.
Some other explanation either we're dealing with some sort of
ape that we've never seen before again if we're talking
a real species out, in the forest or we're dealing
With something and i'll just leave it at something for

(46:18):
now that can make the appearance that it has glowing
eyes that, can do things because, those are scary. Those
are impactful there's something possibly going on.

Speaker 1 (46:31):
In THAT way and i haven't seen all. Of The
footage and i'm saying that nobody was. Shining a flashlight
i've said that, since DAY one because i don't think
there was anybody shining a flashlight. At that point could
somebody have, Had one on could it have been the
ambient light. FROM a camera. I don't know it's possible
that there was something outside of. Bioluminescence going on i'm.

(46:55):
Open to that i'm not saying that by any means
that's the only explanation for. What we saw when we
saw the eyes clearly. Glowing or reflecting but in the
moment and EVEN now as, i recall IT that's what.
I remember seeing i remember seeing what. Looked like bioluminescence
could it have, Been, something different absolutely because it doesn't compute.

(47:16):
To me either humans, don't have eyeshine we don't have it,
to pay them, loose of them so it wouldn't make
sense that something along the lines of an ape would.
HAVE that ability i am certainly open. To, OTHER things
again i haven't seen all the footage from. All the
cameras it's possible somebody could have had a light on
and maybe not have been. SHINING it directly i don't

(47:36):
know a lot.

Speaker 4 (47:37):
OF possibilities there i think the other thing about the
bioluminescence anglele is that luminescence isn't used so organisms can
see better.

Speaker 3 (47:48):
In their environment it's. Used for display its used so
other organisms can see them of. Their own species so
it's weird that you would talk about Something that look
if this is, a biological species it is. A visual
specie if it has big eyes that, are facing forward

(48:08):
it's relying heavily. On its vision glowing eyes are not
going to increase its, vision at night glowing eyes are
just going to be little beacons. To it's surrounding so
that's the other part is it doesn't make sense logically
that an organism would evolve that unless it's being used

(48:28):
as some, Sort of display unless it's being used as.
Something like that, and the way even in your experience that,
you just described that doesn't sound. Like a display they're
not using it to scare you or to show you.
That they're there so that's what makes. ME just wonder
i really think that's an interesting line OF questioning that

(48:50):
i think there may be some hypotheses you could, come
up with look at it scientifically and get, to a
deduction but it's going to be hard to get the data.
On that one.

Speaker 1 (48:59):
It's so interesting to me because again part of my
emotional response to the, after action report, if You will
was i've heard that from. So many people it's not,
every single encounter but there are quite a few of
anecdotal accounts that people give or have given that say

(49:19):
they saw glowing, eyes, different colors, green. Yellowish white blue
in some cases.

Speaker 3 (49:26):
The long time red was the color that. People, talked about.

Speaker 1 (49:29):
Yeah is it something that people are projecting. Into that
situation did? We project it but then you get. Into
mass hallucination there's what five people in the moment watching,
and SEEING this and i have seen some. Of the
footage there was something glowing. Captured on video, it's not clear,

(49:51):
it's not perfect but it's enough for, me, to go
yes that's exactly where, it was, STANDING and yes i
see that. In the video we. Recorded it happening so
there is some, extra evidence there, if you will although
it's not conclusive by any stretch. Of the imagination we're
not talking about, the money shot but there is some

(50:13):
physical representation of what we saw that Made me go.
I'm NOT crazy when, I saw, It i said i'm
not crazy because. It's clearly there it's, a split second.

Speaker 5 (50:25):
But.

Speaker 1 (50:25):
It's.

Speaker 3 (50:25):
THERE yeah absolutely i do want, To say too please
don't beat yourself up. For questioning people this IS something
that i think is Important with. The sasquatch WORLD you
and i have, talked about ball people, taking it personally
people getting into, these different camps that. SORT of stuff
i think if this line of inquiry and this research,

(50:50):
is gonna mature it has to get past that. A
little bit people are always going to, get hurt feelings that.
Sort of thing but also part of the point of
this scientific method is to take the human reaction. OUT
of it i appreciate, that, YOU'RE like man i felt
like an ass, for doing this for, Doubting these people
but at, the same time your skepticism helps to propel

(51:16):
any kind of research Into this ford and you said
it at the very, beginning, Of this right that's what
needs to happen is we need to, Have, people going,
okay that's great but could it? Have been this could it?
Have been that Because we need the other part is
that emotional. Reaction, you had honestly if you look at

(51:36):
journal entries things like that from soldiers who. Are In
battle and i'm not saying that anything you were in
comes even close to what our veterans and fallen, soldiers
went through but that kind of really intense emotional situation,
in your case something that you've been how long you've

(51:57):
been doing the BIGFOOT thing since I, was issu yeah,
so a lifelong almost forty year fascination knacking you in
the face almost from twenty feet away and then ten
feet away if you hadn't had, AN emotional reaction I
keep like brian maybe you should see someone they talk

(52:19):
is that, with a therapist because that's like the. Most
human reaction and THE journal part i was talking about
is you look at, journals from soldiers a lot of
them who write honestly and who have been able to
talk honestly after their first encounter. With the enemy. Soldiers
are bawling there may not have even, been shots fire it's.

(52:39):
Just That intensity and I'll tell you i've observed more
than thirty what we call battles between chimpanzee communities during
my time, in the field where you have multiple males
from one community multiple males from another community coming. Together
and fighting i've observed more. Than, of those afterward our

(53:03):
closest living relatives have that same kind, of emotional overload
the adrenaline dump that. You're talking, about they're screaming they're,
doing fear grimaces they're. Comforting each other chimps don't really
have saline tears so much, like we do but they

(53:24):
are doing all the chimp. Equivalent AFTER that so i
would say this is a deeply rooted evolutionary behavior that
you experienced after. That intense experience so you're just a
good primate. For doing, that you know a. Really intense
experience it's again that kind of byproduct of those chemicals

(53:45):
and hormones being released. Into your system but getting back
to the nuts and, Bolts, of IT man now i
want to go To Visit. The olympic project i've spent
some Time In The olympia National Forest. AND national park i.
Love THAT area but i know what you're talking about
how intense the deadfall the forest can be, to get
through especially if you're not, on, a nice clean manicured

(54:08):
hiking trail that they've, set for you which in, your
guy's case you Went In. The national park if You're In,
the national park don't go off trail you're. Not supposed
to but in, your, Guys case yeah i've been. IN
that forest i understand what. You're talking about. THAT is
intense i have tried to follow deer and lots of
other animals up slopes like. You're, Talking about, yeah i'm

(54:29):
sorry it's just a hopeless endeavor for a biped to try.
And do that That's a human i'll. Say, that one
yeah it was.

Speaker 1 (54:38):
Definitely something man we went back the next day to
try to see if there was a possibility of seeing
something that might, have been. Evidence I E, Hare foot
prance chris actually dropped one. Of his GoPros he had
one on the front and one. On the back the
one on the back of his head that he had
on there came off. During the kerfuffle were actually. Looking
for it it's, still out there. Ladies and gentlemen we

(54:59):
don't have any idea. What's on it there may be
a picture of a sasquatch picking it up. And sniffing it,
We don't know, probably never know because it's still out.
In the forest but we went back, the, next DAY
man and i can't believe that any of us survived
that without a broken leg or, a broken ankle especially
flat out running the way. That we were, it was
insane the dead fall and the trees and the jagged

(55:22):
sticks and rocks and things that. We went over. But we,
Survived and yeah i've. Said this before it goes back
to your point earlier about being contested and being challenged
when it comes. To your experiences i've always been. Open
to that we run A group on facebook that has
almost thirteen thousand members, At This point Bigfoot Encounters and Field,
research On facebook and i've actually stopped admins in the

(55:45):
group from ejecting people and muting people that were disagreeing
with me about my EVIDENCE or what. I put, forward,
i'm like no you're not going. To do that THAT'S exactly.
WHAT i want i want people, that will say but?
What about this then it makes me THINK and then
i can, answer THE question or, i, can say yeah
it's possible there was ambient light instead of them, being

(56:06):
glowing eyes although it didn't appear that way. At the time. Is,
that possible absolutely it's possible that it, was SOMETHING else
because i think if you get to the point where
you're Constantly drinking the, bigfoot kool aid everything else is just.
A moot point, at this juncture there's nowhere to Go
other than i'm. A diehard believer people still ask me.
To this day i've, gotten messages saying how could you

(56:29):
have an experience like that just last year and still.
BE so skeptical i say it. All the time i'm
Not skeptical. ABOUT bigfoot Anymore i know bigfoot Is real because.
I've seen them i'm, skeptical about people, always have been
always will be because people. Make shit up they want
to be a part. Of the club they, Make up lies,

(56:50):
they fake evidence. They hoax Videos that's what, i'm SKEPTICAL
about and i. Always will be but without those. Kind
OF conversations when i put out the FOOTPRINT cast that
i did a couple of years ago, ON the property
i knew what people were, going to say because they.
Look too good they are too good comparatively speaking to
some of the Other things that i've cast and some

(57:11):
of The other things i've. SEEN people cast i knew
that there was going to, be, people saying oh you.
Just hoaxed that what's the chances of the bigfoot podcaster
who just happens to have bigfoot on his property casting
footprints sixty yards. FROM his house i don't know what.
The odds are i'm just telling. You what happened but
if you want, to examine them sure you. Can examine

(57:32):
them i've Given, Them to cliff i've Given. THEM to
jeff i actually Took them to Jeff up in gatlinburg
just what last weekend because he had, seen the scans.
He'd seen photos he'd just never held. The ACTUAL cast
Because i sent, CLIFF a copy I didn't send. JEFF
a copy i have no, problem BEING challenged and i
think that's part of the problem with This community. That
i've seen it's probably a conversation, for Another day but

(57:55):
i've seen that so much in some of The, groups
on facebook where you can't even challenge a person and
you can't even ask a question about their photos or
their videos or their air quote evidence that they're presenting
because that's just not. What THEY'RE about and. I get
it you can run your group. However you want Just
Know that Bigfoot Encounters and field research. Group my group

(58:15):
you're going to be. CHALLENGED hands down i don't care.
Who you are that's, how, we learn man that's. How
we grow and that's, what pushes this, in my opinion
further down the field is everybody being skeptical about everything
but being able to sit down and drink a beer
and have a.

Speaker 3 (58:29):
Conversation, about IT absolutely and i think in some ways
it's almost a natural progression of this kind of lines
of inquiry fascinations is when they mature into either belief systems.
OR scientific inquiry i think that's the choice that people.
Have to make do you want to be part of

(58:50):
The church of bigfoot or do you want to be
part of The. STUDY of bigfoot i won't even attach science,
there because again observations are really valuable without applying any.
Kind of methodology my, third watching example we get lots of.
Data THAT way but i hear so many people on,
podcasts at CONFERENCES people that i talk to talking about

(59:16):
wait till science, recognizes these things and so many organizations
out there their mission is to get science to. Recognize
these things, FOR those folks, I, would say okay, the
question is it's not science changing to. Recognize these things
it's using scientific methods to show that the data's overwhelming that,

(59:40):
says watch exists and it's not proving anything because science.
Doesn't prove things, mathematics has. Proofs that's geometry it's not getting.
To the truth that's getting.

Speaker 1 (59:51):
To the facts and stay tuned For. More sasquat chodesy
we'll be right back after these messages.

Speaker 3 (01:00:01):
And how people want to. Go about that if you
want to prove things to yourself and get to, your
own truth that's about. Philosophy and religion that's. A belief system.
That's TOTALLY fine but i think folks naturally fall. Into belief.
Systems quite honestly maybe this is, my bias speaking but
it's EASIER to say i believe this rather than methodically

(01:00:23):
collecting data. LIKE you said i love, That, YOU said
hey i haven't seen all. The video yet maybe there
was a light somewhere controlling for all the variables you
can and you just left the door open for let's
control for those variables before we. Make definitive statements that's.
PART of science i love the idea of sasquatch. Being,

(01:00:47):
Out there again, i'll, say it man since you have.
Had Your experience, Now, i'm Like okay now i'm really
QUESTIONING stuff because i JUST feel like i understand where.
You're Coming from and i've Been on With cliff and
bobo a Few times and matt, a FEW times and
i love THOSE guys and i, appreciate THEIR perspective but

(01:01:08):
i don't have the same. Kind of connection and they
have been in the game for so long and they have.
Had THEIR experiences when, i met them, they, Were like no,
i'm telling you these, things Are real, And, i'm like.
Okay we'll see let's talk about what this. DEAL is
again i appreciate. YOU sharing that i really appreciate that
you shared about the EMOTIONAL component because i think that needs, to.

(01:01:29):
BE normalized right i think people. Need, to, realize look
man if you're out on a hike and a mountain
lion is stalking you and you, figure it out and
you see that thing's tail as, it goes off and
you feel yourself not being able to catch your breath
and you feel yourself getting a. Little weld up even
if you, have an outburst don't kick yourself and think

(01:01:50):
that you're somehow weak. Or you're this that's just a
human reaction, and it's, OKAY quite HONESTLY i hope i
get to have. One of THOSE it's something i.

Speaker 1 (01:01:59):
Hope SO too and i had to admit to it because.
THEY filmed it i was crying. In the documentaries it's
going to be out there in perpetuity for everybody to
see from Now on When My big foot life. Does
come out it's. A great documentary i've seen a rough
cut from. SEVERAL months ago i think it's an awesome
documentary and we'll certainly talk more about it on the
show and let you guys know when. It comes out

(01:02:20):
obviously we'll be promoting it so you guys.

Speaker 3 (01:02:22):
Can.

Speaker 1 (01:02:22):
Watch it man there's so MUCH stuff that i had
in the hopper that we didn't get to today that
just means we'll have to have you back and you
have to do. More of these i'll put these back
in the hopper and we'll pull them out on. The
next show if there's something you guys want to hear,
us talk about you want To Get doctor hogan, chiros
opinion on or you just want to hear us chew the,
fat over it send Me an Email brian at. Paranormberworldproductions

(01:02:44):
dot com get edited, to the website leave us. A
voicemail there it comes. Directly to me we get those.
Every single day so if there's something you want us
to talk about on, a future episode. Let us know
hit us up because We will have hogan back on
the show sooner. Rather, Than later man i've had a
good time. Talking to you i'm glad, you Were on
and i'm looking forward to the next conversation so we
can dig into some of these other topics we didn't. Get, to, TODAY.

Speaker 3 (01:03:07):
Absolutely man i appreciate you bringing. Me on that it's
great to chat with you and just shoot things back
and forth to see how. IT turns out i never
know where conversations are, going to lead and that's PART
of what i. LOVE about it i look forward to.

Speaker 6 (01:03:19):
More of, them they say you don't, gotta go home but.

Speaker 5 (01:03:24):
YOU can't stay.

Speaker 6 (01:03:30):
I want To be.

Speaker 5 (01:03:34):
Happened, jo this job. Job every day call, me king back,

(01:04:03):
joy for me, Joy staying right.

Speaker 6 (01:04:09):
You come. It right away, side still sat side still

(01:05:02):
as bass in the state passss STATE as fast us
states instances