February 6, 2025 • 49 mins
John LeMay is our guest on ScaryCast with Dr. John Stamey. He discusserss his new book Cowboys and Zombies!
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/scarycast--6041822/support.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/scarycast--6041822/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Good evening in Live from Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, a
very special episode of Scary Cast. I am doctor John Stamy.
We're so glad to be with you tonight to announce
a very special event with very special guests. So it's
a lot of fun. First of all, I would like
to introduce my best co host in the world, Doctor
(00:26):
Trey Dunaway, the Leprecaun. How are you doing tonight, doctor Trey?
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Good John doing fine, happy to be well.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Good. We'll tell us a little bit about why I
called you the Leprechaun. Give a shame an unshameless plug
to the great event coming up in Camden. Well.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
We have the largest family friendly Saint Patrick's Day celebration
in Camden, South Carolina on March first, and if you
come to that event, you'll see why I grow this
beard starting between Thanksgiving and Christmas, and it will and
(01:07):
it will be orange when you see it on the
big stage. I am the Jumbo Leprecaun. Leprechauns coming to
different sizes small, medium, in large, and I'm the jumbo version.
So that is Camden, Irish Irish Fast Camden, which is
on March first. You can buy your tickets online at
(01:28):
cam Camden Irish Fest.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
And also you better be careful because Carolina Caricatures will
be back there. Tony and I will be there and
you can get you can get a picture drawn of you,
whoever you are, and the jumbo Leprecaun. That's gonna be
so awesome, and thank you for hooking us up with that.
(01:52):
And we can't wait to hang out with you all
day that Saturday, March the first, So.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
It's gonna be a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
It's gonna be a veryvery special day. So thanks a
lot for hooking us up. And I'm just going to
be so good to be in one of my favorite
towns in the world, Camden, South Carolina, the home of
one of the greatest golf courses in the United States.
And we we love, we just love Camden. So thanks
a lot.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Just go to Irishfestcamden dot com and you can see
all the Irish Fest information you care to see.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
That's right, and buy a ticket. Everybody, We command you
to buy tickets. It will be fun, all right. Tonight
we have a very special scary cast because today is
the world premiere of a new book by John LeMay,
(02:46):
one of our favorite authors and who an author that
I am now working with for a for a special.
We'll be talking about that as it gets going and everything.
But tonight we are going to talk about his brand
new book. It's called Cowboys and Zombies. Welcome John LeMay.
(03:06):
How are you doing tonight.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
I'm always happy to see doctor John and Tray. So
I'm doing good.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Well, that's good. We're glad to see you. It's gonna
be a lot of fun talking about one of my
couple of my favorite topics. I love cowboys, I love
the Southwest. You're from Roswell. There's a plug for Roswell.
What a great town. Great, what a great flying saucer
town that is. And of course we're going to talk
about cowboys and zombies. So I'm really excited about this,
(03:35):
all right, And so first of all, where do we
buy the book? And then I'm gonna start the questioning.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Just Amazon dot Com for everything. I like Amazon, they
pay me my money. So just search my name on
Amazon or search Cowboys and Zombies and you'll find it
pretty easy.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Well, that's great, I will be doing that soon.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Right.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
First question, and this is perhaps one of the most
important questions. I am very close friends with Kevin Holland
and with Sonia Thompson, and they played zombies on The
Walking Dead. So John tell us the difference between a
zombie and another paranormal entity, such as a ghost. That's
(04:26):
something that I know people would really like to hear.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Well. First, I think I'll start with the difference between
a real life zombie and a movie zombie, and then
I'll talk about differences with ghosts. So, in a movie,
a zombie is a reanimated corpse, you know, that's kind
of like an animal that you know, the soul of
the person that's gone, it's just their body and it,
(04:51):
you know, wants to devour human flesh. And real life
a zombie, you know, according to like voodoo, they're not
really in a lot of cases dead. It's it's a
live person who has been like bewitched or drugged into
being kind of this slave that's very susceptible to persuasion
(05:13):
and instruction. So I think that's you know, a real
zombie is if somebody's been drugged or hypnotized and then
they you know, you can tell them to do whatever
you want them to do. Now, a ghost, though, that's
just the spirit of a deported person, you know, showing
up and you know, doing whatever it's gonna do, whether
(05:33):
it's throwing rocks at the house or knocking on doors
or materializing, you know, in front of somebody. So yeah, zombies,
I guess are physical and ghosts are just spiritual.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Okay. Now, one of the things that I would like
to say is that we associate zombies with the Nation
of Haiti, correct.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Yeah, and that is really where it the idea originated
more than anywhere else. The word zombie comes from Brazil actually,
But the real concept of a zombie though, yeah, it's
all voodoo stuff.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Right, And that's very interesting. I know. We have White Zombie,
the great movie starring Bella Legosi from nineteen thirty nineteen thirty.
It was actually made after Dracula, but was released before
Dracula nineteen thirty one. One of the great horror films
(06:33):
of all time. And you know, it's a scary movie
because it talked. It shows that zombies can be coerced
into doing most anything. Is that right, John?
Speaker 3 (06:46):
Well, I didn't really have those types of zombies in
this book. And to be honest, so what this book
stemmed from, you know, we've talked before how Noe Taurus
and I do those Cowboys and Aliens books, which is
about UFO sidings in the Old West, And from that
I started doing books about cowboys and dinosaur sidings called
(07:06):
Cowboys and Saurians, you know. And when I say dinosaurs,
I mean, you know, like the Luckness Monster variety, where
you know, supposedly it's a dinosaur that made it into
the modern day. And that series did really well. There
was lots of material, and so I wanted to do
something similar and I was like, wow, I wonder if
(07:27):
it's like stories about cowboys and vampires and werewolves, and
there were. So I did a book called Cowboys and
Monsters and it was a big book, but inevitably there's
always stories I overlook and I missed the first time,
so I kind of just tucked them away until I
had enough, you know, material to make another book. And
(07:47):
initially I was going to call this one Cowboys and
Monsters the Lost Cases, but as I kind of sorted
through them, I had enough material that could be considered
zombie zombie adjacent. That is such a more marketable title
Cowboys and Zombies, and that's why I give it the
subtitle The Subtitle's subtitle is Vampires werewolves and revenants of
(08:12):
the Range and revenants were like an antiquated term for
the undead.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Wow, I was actually, I mean I do. I'm such
a vampire geek. I love you know, I love them,
I'll and I'll say that I was fortunate enough for
six months to have one of the greatest roommates of
all time. It was Bela Lugosi, the fourth And I
(08:39):
think probably the high point of my life was a
Saturday afternoon that I written. Now, this is just tells
you how old it was. I went and rented a
film called Plan nine from Outer Space, and he told
me why the Lagosi family did not like ed Wood.
And I still remember that. I've got the notes written down.
(09:00):
Maybe John, we can put that in a book sometime.
But I just really, I really enjoy vampires. I do.
And I'll say that I've got a brand new favorite
vampire film. And I don't know if you've seen it,
or Doctor Trey you have, but it is the BBC's
three part series called Dracula, and it is terrifying. I mean,
(09:25):
this is like, oh my god, I can't believe that
they really took Dracula and updated it and scarified it
to twenty twenty three. It was scary as all get
out and I loved it. I loved so John, did
you see that?
Speaker 3 (09:44):
I did? I? Yeah, maybe we could do a whole
episode on that sometime if you wanted, because yeah, I
it's still fresh in my mind. And I liked the
homage they did to Dracula AD nineteen seventy two where
they put Dracula in modern times. It was pretty unexpected.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Twist, right, And I'll tell you another Drakia. I'll just
and then we're gonna get on to to cowboys and vampires.
But I want to say congratulations to the great film Blacula.
That was a black version of Dracula and that was scary.
(10:21):
We'll we'll even add blackett Blacula to our list of
films that we will talk about. We will do that
soon enough, is that okay, John?
Speaker 3 (10:31):
Yeah? Yeah, because like I said, it's sooner's better than later,
because I'll forget the whole thing before long.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Okay, all right, So now it's story time with John LeMay.
You told me that you've got one of the most
incredible and frightening stories in the whole zombie literature, and
it took place in all places Texas. Tell us about it,
(11:00):
and Doctor Trey when he finishes, you might have a
corresponding story from Camden. I'll bet you have a little
bit about that. So listen carefully. And it's storytime first
of all, John LeMay our guest, and cowboys and zombies.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
So whenever I do these books, I always have to
decide what's gonna be the cover story, what's the most captivating,
what's a good chapter to kick the book off? And
so I'll hold it up for anybody that's watching it
on YouTube. You know, it's a headless horseman from Texas.
He's called El Muerto the Dead One. And the cool
thing about that story, it's a zombie story and a
(11:44):
ghost story, and it has historical pedigree that's like true
apparently because the people that are initially told the story,
their descendants say it's all true. So we'll get a
history lesson too. In eighteen forty eight, you know, they
had the Mexican American War where they were disputing the
(12:05):
border between Texas and Mexico, and that they had a
particular area called No Man's Land which was in between
the two disputed borders, which I think were like the
Rio Grande and the Nusis River, and that was a
particularly lawless area. But it's a cool story because it's
(12:28):
again it's about a headless horseman and the man who
was going to be the headless horseman. He was actually
a defector from the Mexican Army. He defected to the army,
you know whatever the Army of the Republic of Texas
was called. I forgot, he surrendered, He informed on his
general and so that's part of his background. His name
(12:51):
was Vidal. That's the only name ever been given to him,
and Vidal after becoming a after he was a defector,
he became a cattle wrestler and a horse thief. And
you know, cattle wrestling and horse wrestling was really really
bad along the border back around eighteen fifty and uh
(13:14):
you know, people were getting tired of it. And uh
so there was a Texas ranger named Creed Taylor and
he teamed up with big Foot Wallace to go on
track on this wrestler named yet All.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
So he so he teamed up with Bigfoot.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Huh yeah, big Foot Wallace. Yeah yeah to are they
no this big Foot was human? Yeah, unfortunately. Yeah, he's
just a human being. But uh so, this general Bigfoot Wallace,
he was successful in tracking down this horse wrestler named
(13:54):
by dal He killed him and all of his men,
and he wanted to make an example out of him,
you know, he wanted to really strike fear into the rustlers.
So he decided to decapitate his dead body, and then
he put the headless corpse on top of a wild mustang.
They you know, they basically lassoed this horse and then
somehow they actually you know, very tightly tied the body
(14:17):
to the horse, and then they also took the severed
head and put it in his sombrero and like latched
it in there, and they swung that from the saddle
of the horse, and they just set it off to
go run wild. And according to the story, you know,
people would see this headless rider and it would freak
him out and they'd shoot at it. And you know,
(14:38):
when they shot it, because it was tied upright to
this horse that wouldn't fall over, so they to them,
it looked like this unkillable headless being. So in that sense,
you know, it was a zombie. I mean, it wasn't really,
but it was a real corpse, you know, strap to
a horse. And eventually these ranch captured the horse when
(15:01):
it was at a watering hole and they managed to
get the body off of it, and I'm sure the
horse was thrilled to be shed of it, and they
gave the body a proper burial. But of course after
they buried the body, you know, they would still then
they would see the ghost of the Headless Horseman riding
the horse and striking terror into people. But Creed Taylor
(15:24):
his descendants say that's a true story, and yeah, that
really happened. And you know, can't prove that the ghost
is real, but that they decapitated this rustler and strapped
him to the back of his horse. That apparently is
true according to them, And it was a pretty sensational
story for a while. You know, we think of Washington
(15:44):
Irving's Ichobod Crane and the Headless Horseman as being the
most famous headless horseman story, and I guess it is.
But actually there's this huge, like I think, like one
hundred and fifty thousand word novel called The Headless Horseman,
A Strange Tale of Texas by Maine Reid, published in
(16:05):
eighteen sixty five, and we don't really remember it today,
but back in the old days that was a popular novel.
And I mean now the ich Ichabod Crane story has
really outlived it. But I think in you know, the
past two centuries, Maine Reads book was pretty well read.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
On John, Is that something that I could buy on Amazon?
Maine Reads Book?
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Yes? And I'll just say too, John, it's a public
domain book, so if nobody beats me to it, I'm
gonna do my own annotated edition of that.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Now.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Is this Headless Horseman the same headless horseman in your story?
Is it the same entity?
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Yeah, of course yes, hell yeah. And this this nonfiction
book Cowboys and Zombies. Yeah, elmoreto the Headless Horseman of Texas.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
Yeah. But and there's other Headless Horseman in the Southwest.
I've gotten the book too. And then there's you know,
you guys have your own headless.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
Horseman over in the south huh several, Doctor Trey, Do
you know enough about the Headless Horsemen of Camden to
give us a quick rundown of it?
Speaker 2 (17:23):
John, I've never heard of the Headless Horseman of Camden.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
That came from Rusty. What's the Rusty's last.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Name Rusty Major.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Rusty Major, that's right. So we got to get Rusty
Major on here to talk about the headless horsemen of Camden.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Although I think I know where Texas zombies or a
zombie influencer is that has come from Texas.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Okay, right, because from what I know, Rusty Major told
me a story and it's in the ghost Book of
Camden that I have over there that he sought me.
It talks about a headless horseman that romped around Camden,
South Carolina, which is, if I'm not mistaken, full of ghosts?
(18:12):
Is that correct, Doctor Trey.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
I don't know any of them personally, but I do
know about zombies.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
I want I want to hear about the Texas zombies.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Texas zombies, I believe they originate from BUCkies gas stations.
You know, BUCkies is now spread to it's in it's
near Myrtle Beach. And yes, you see people staggering out
of BUCkies and they've got they've got the brisket sandwiches,
(18:43):
they've got uh a great jerky, they've got fudge, they've
got roasted nuts. And when they stagger out of BUCkies,
they are full of this and they look like zombies.
Is they egg and that that's a origin I understand.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Okay, well, thank you, we will we will check we
will check that out and I'll take some pictures the
next time I'm I'm I'm at the intersection of Highway
three seventy eight and Interstate No Interstate ninety five. That's
where That's where BUCkies was in Florence.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
BUCkies is just a great place.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Oh it is. I love the love the food, and John,
when you get to come over here, I'll have to
take you to BUCkies and we'll meet doctor Trey there
and we'll we'll there lots of brisket. That'll be that'll
be an incredible amount of fun. But yeah, you know, John,
zombie stories are very interesting because they're they're a missmash
(19:47):
of both supernatural zombies and of course real zombies. People
who have been enchanted were disenchanted with spells, and they're
they're kind of scary. Do you agree with.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
That, John, Yes? And then there's one other I guess
you'd call it a scientific zombie. There are people who
have died but their corpses like have some electrical impulses
that made them move after they should have been dead
and I've got a couple of stories like that in
the book as well.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Okay, well that's great.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Now.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
You said you told me in the green room that
you had a very interesting story at the end of
the book. You just told us about the first story,
which is the Texas Headless Horseman, and you said that
you had a really interesting zombie story at the end
of the book. Is that correct? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (20:42):
I mean, I think you could call it a zombie
story because it wasn't about ghosts, you know, because there's
a difference between spirits and dead bodies. So in New
Mexico we have ship Rock Peak, which is you know,
sacred to the Navajo nation, and in the eighteen nineties
there was there were some gold finds on the Navajo
(21:02):
reservation and they really got scared that, you know, the
US government might relocate some of their lands so that
it could be mined for gold. And it brought up
an old legend that back in the days of the
Spanish conquistadors, that they had had a mine near a
Shiprock Peak and that they had enslaved the Navajo to
(21:25):
mine it, but that eventually the dead Navajo who were
slain like rose back up and like drove away the
Spanish kind of like, you know, an undead army from
one of those Brendan Fraser mummy movies.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Oh those were I love those movies.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
In a cautionary tale for anybody who comes to Shiprock
to making a fortune.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Yeah, yeah, there's lots of cool legends about Shiprock. There's
some ancient aliens type stuff with that place, because the
Navajos said that it was an ancient ship with wings
that brought them to that area and then it landed
there and settled.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Wow, now where is that is that? Is that a
story that we can read somewhere?
Speaker 3 (22:15):
Yeah, it's a pretty common legend. Any book of Novljo mythology,
creation myths all that should have it. And yeah, ship
Rock peaks in like northeastern New Mexico or no, wait,
north northwestern New Mexico.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
I'm writing this down because whenever I, whenever I have
you on as a guest, I get some of the
best ideas and references for stories that that I could
ever get, and we normally talk about them at some point.
And I had gone back, I had gone over there.
That's why I disappeared. I came back with a book
(22:55):
that you Attitude. Yeah, magazine, and it has a story
that I wrote called The Problem in Entering a Cave.
And you know, John May, there is more to that
story than appears in your book. So we need to
talk about this. I mean, I just I love Ambrose Bierce.
(23:19):
Ambrose Bierce was one of the greatest American authors in history.
He was a great fiction writer, he was a great reporter.
He also did The Devil's Dictionary. And we need to
talk about Ambrose Biers sometime because he's just he just
looms large as a great intellect, and he wrote a
(23:40):
lot of fun things that we need to talk about.
So I May note I have all these notes in
the book. So yeah, it's absolutely grand. So you talk
about cowboys and zombies. What are some more interesting stories
that you can tell us about the cowboys and the zombies.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
Some of the most interesting stuff I find is just
in going through old issues of True West and Frontier Times.
So something you know today we have this term of
the skin walker, which is like Native American or Novajo
werewolf shape shifter. So they didn't have that word. It
(24:24):
wasn't a word in the public consciousness back in the
nineteen forties and the nineteen sixties. But I found this
story in an old Frontier Times called Cash of Skulls,
and it was about this grave robber who was exhuming
recently deceased graves and cutting off the heads and stealing them.
(24:48):
And what was freaky is and it was a true story,
you know, told by the son of somebody who experienced
at firsthand back in the late eighteen hundreds. He took
place in eighteen ninety nine, and there was an Indian
trader that was a part of the story who got
all of it firsthand from people on the reservations in
(25:10):
the area where he lived and operated. But whatever, these
graves would be desecrated. The thing is, they would never
ever find human footprints. They would find the footprints of
a coyote. And one of the guys is his baby's sister.
Her grave got desecrated, so he, you know, he was
(25:31):
understandably very angry. So he started doing stakeouts at the
graves to watch for, you know, the perpetrator. And he
did see a man crawling up to the grave wearing
a coyote pelt, and he shot at him and he
hit him, and the guy ran off on foot into
the darkness. And the younger guy got on his horse
(25:55):
and chased him, and this guy actually out ran him
on his horse on foot, which you know, seems kind
of supernatural, and he did eventually catch the guy and
kill him. And I mean, at the end of the story,
he was just a normal human being, but he did
wear animal skins, and he was very fleet footed, and
he could always outrun him no matter what it seemed like.
(26:18):
So that's an interesting story. I've gotten the book. I
titled it The skull Snatching skin Walker. I did another
chapter just on vampires of the Southwest and how different
they are. And I think one thing that's interesting to
talk about is movies have really defined what we consider
(26:41):
a vampire, a werewolf, a witch, a zombie. But back
in the old days, everything was basically just a witch,
you know, male or female. You know, it was a
witch because witches were thought to drink blood like vampires.
Witches were thought to turn into animals like wolves. There's
the lore that if you killed a were wolf, it
(27:04):
would then rise again as a vampire. So all this
stuff in the old days was very linked. You know.
It's only really due to our films that we've you know,
started to define a vampire and say what it is.
But back in old folklore, they're all very very interchangeable.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Really, well, that's that is that is kind of interesting
because you're right, back in the sixteen hundreds were talking
about vampires, talking about wolf witches. Yeah, then that could
have spawned specialized witches, the variety were wolf, variety of witch.
(27:44):
So it's it's like the overall is a witch, and
then as time progressed, they became specialized into different, different
specific creatures manifesting certain characteristics of the original witch. The
witches were like piece of their day, and then they
get specialists spinning off from that.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Yeah, you know, it's it's really interesting that when you
look at the Dracula legend by Bram Stoker, you see
a lot of werewolf and traditional witch behaviors in the vampire.
And I mean just that was, like, you know, truly
(28:27):
one of the greatest Gothic horror mood of movies, one
of the greatest Gothic horror books of all time. He
combined a number of things, and what most people don't
know is his brothers helped him create the mythos of
the vampire. And it's just it's it's just an incredible
(28:51):
and I think the most unbelievable scene in the Dracula
book is towards the very end where it's snowing and
there there are wolves all around the stage coach, and
it's just that is a terrifying scene if you read
it just you know, kind of you know whatever, if
(29:13):
you just read it and think about it, and then
of course there is and a lot of people don't
know this. The short story Dracula's Guest, which was taken
out of the book Dracula, was the first chapter, and
that is really really a frightening It's a frightening little
(29:34):
chapter about a woman, you know, Jonathan Harker walks into
the crypt and sees a woman who looks voluptuous and
very well preserved, and she sets up scares the fool
out of it. It's just there are some great elements
of Dracula that have to do with witches, wear wolves
(29:57):
and things like that, and I think they did they
did an incredible job and in creating this mythos of
the vampire. So so you have a chapter on vampires
in your book Cowboys and Zombies, right.
Speaker 3 (30:19):
Yeah, And with the very Southwestern flair and Uh, you
brought up something that I meant to include in this
book and I didn't do it. So in reading Dracula,
I always wondered why, uh Stoker wanted to include this
character of the Texas cowboy Quincy. I can't remember his name.
It's it's Quincy something, Quincy Morris. I don't know Quincy.
(30:42):
He's he's a six shooter cowboy Texan. And it turns
out that Bram Stoker, back when he was working with
a touring theater company, had come to America and toured
the American Southwest and that's where he got his inspiration
to include the Quincy character. So I'm meant to do
a little chapter on that in the book, and I
(31:02):
just ran out of time and I forgot. So everything
is connected.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
For the next edition, you can add it.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
Well, I don't know if I'm going to do another
like Cowboy and Monster book. I really want this to
be the last one, so I don't know. We'll see.
But back to like vampires in the Southwest, you guys
probably remember, I don't worry. I don't mean firsthand, I
just mean in general. You guys, remember the scare of
(31:32):
World War of the world's broadcast in nineteen thirty eight.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Yes, yeah, like.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
The big uproar that caused that people thought it was real. Well,
they had that same year in nineteen thirty eight, they
broadcast a play about a vampire on the radio, and
people also thought it was real, specifically in the ol
Paso region, they really I guess kids were actually terrified
to go outside and go to school, and there were
(32:00):
so many complaints about it they had to do a
follow up broadcast, you know, explaining that it was just
a play and it wasn't real. So I thought that
was interesting, and I've got that in the book.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
Really tell us a little bit about that story. That's interesting,
and I have never heard of it.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
Yeah, that's really all there is to it. It's just
interesting that people still believed in vampires then. But there
were a lot of Hispanic Southwest Native American type vampire stories.
And you know, I think we've talked about this before,
but in nineteen fifties Mexico they actually received so many
(32:43):
death certificates for infants that listed the cause of death
as and I quote sucked by the witch, is then
drained of blood by the witch, that the Mexican government
actually sent out like investigators to go see what was
up with it, and the people would all claim that
(33:03):
this vampire witch would come into their houses at night
and kill their babies, and you know, as far as
they were concerned, that's what was happening.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Was there any any type of conclusion, drang.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
No, because I don't think they ever actually did autopsy.
Autopsies on the babies is the odd thing. From what
I understood, they they might have done one autopsy, but
they didn't really do very many. I think they just
kind of brushed it off, as you know, the baby's
getting cold in the night or something like that. But
(33:41):
they would some of them would claim that they saw
like a vampire enter the house in the form of
like some sort of bird, and they would claim that
it would emit a type of miss that caused paralysis
to where they were helpless. But you know, anything, Yeah,
from that long ago, it's it's hard to know what's
(34:02):
true and what's not.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Doctor Trey. Do you know any stories like that in
the United.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
States about vampire activities? Yeah, people dry of blood, yeah,
called insurance companies.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
Yeah, okay, that's the that's the modern vampire, I think.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Yeah, right, there were there were there were a lot
of great stories and that that's an interesting one that John.
So that's in your book Cowboys and Cowboys and Zombies,
And we've all got to get a copy of that
book so that we can see these stories and and
and learn about these myths, because the myths are part
(34:49):
of what created us, don't you thank John?
Speaker 3 (34:53):
Absolutely? And it's you know, it's a fun way to
learn your history. You know, folklore has a lot of
real history in it. Like got a chapter on a
zombie cow or a zombie steer, Texas longhorn steer that
belonged to Billy the Kids' boss, John Chisholm and all
the cowboys started branding it with these nefarias brands like
(35:14):
snakes and scorpions and skulls and crossbones, and one of
them even put a hex on it. And from that
day forward, this steer was allegedly cursed. And when they
loaded it up on a train in Amarillo, Texas to
ship it to the Eastern markets, the train it was
on crashed and I actually researched that. You know, most
(35:37):
people just took it at face value, like, oh, the
train crashed, and yeada, YadA, YadA, but I went through
the newspapers of the time. The year was eighteen eighty eight,
and I found two train crashes outside of Amarillo, Texas
in late eighteen eighty eight, which is when this happened.
So you know, I think I found the real train crash.
(35:58):
Doesn't mean the was actually cursed or that it was
a zombie cow or anything like that, but you know,
it all adds up. But yeah, after the train crash, though,
they would still see this cursed cow with all these
weird brands on it roaming the ranges, and wherever they
saw it there would be this horrible look. So that's
(36:18):
you know, I think I've got a good variety in
this book if I can work in like a zombie cow.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
I you know, John, let me let me back up
a second, back to that concept where the witches started
and then branches. I get the image like a tree
and the base of that tree is a witch, and
then but has a branch off and that becomes a vampire.
And all that has ever tracked back to the first reference,
(36:52):
documented reference of which which I would imagine would be
pretty old because I think witches have been with a
long time. But when the first mention of zombie or
vampire or shape shifter or is there is there any
I wonder what the sequence would look like to go
(37:13):
back to UH to try to figure out the first
time a recorded statement about one of these different versions
was was printed, and then to look at the timeline
from the time which is developed, and then when these
other characteristics evolved with their own separate names. What do
(37:33):
you have any idea what how how that spread over
time would have evolved the evolution of those subsets of witches.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
Yes, So going back to like ancient Sumeria or Summer,
they had blood drinking bird women they called the Stricts
I think, and and also the stricks were related to
the she demon called Lilith or do and they're all
they're super similar to these supposed vampire witches of the
(38:06):
nineteen fifties Mexico because they, you know, they weren't like
vampire bats. They were birds. Very specifically, they were blood
drinking birds, which is also what they were in Sumeria.
And Lilith had a lot of bird like traits and
some of her depictions. And I would bet a lot
of our listeners know what Lilith is, but she's she's
(38:30):
like I don't know what you'd call it, Jewish folklore
or apocryphia. She's not in the Genesis story, but according
to folklore, before Eve, there was Lilith, and Lilith was
created out of the dust of the earth, just like Adam,
and therefore if she was equal to him, because she
wasn't like created from his rib And the story was
(38:51):
that Lilith didn't really want to submit to Adam, you know,
she she wanted an equal type of partnership, and then
she was basically like cursed for that and she became
a she demon who her main purpose was to kill
the offspring of Adam and Eves. So that might be
kind of the origin of like a female witch. I guess,
(39:14):
m hmm.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
That's very interesting, John, because we have little Lilith is
a character that always appears throughout television. Yeah, I mean,
I think Lilith appeared in Seinfeld. She was in Cheers.
She cheers Cheers, Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
Wasn't she Niles his wife?
Speaker 3 (39:40):
No, she was Fraser's wife. Yeah, And and they chose
that name to make her, you know, cold and all
the things that she is.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
Right.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
Wow, I tell you, mythology really permeates our yes, culture
and yeah comes off often today it's in a humorous
way like Lilith, but still the origins of that if
that's I mean, obviously the writers chose the name Lilith
is in a real common name, so they specifically. So
(40:17):
I'm sure the person that chose that used that name
specifically because of the Lilith legends.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
Yeah, I guess it goes to show you be careful
about using names Lilith and Damien for your kids. Yeah,
they might mean something that you don't really want to
attach to them.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
After watching the movie, I don't think I could ever
name my child Damien.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
You my goodness, I know that's yeah, it's amazing.
Speaker 3 (40:50):
And look after my book, I feel like people want
to hear about zombies and I found a good one.
He's from South America and he's the Whistling Zombie. His
name's Elsie sytle Bone, and he looks like a zombie.
Again for the YouTube, people all hold up the picture,
you know that looks like a zombie and he's one
(41:11):
of the few that actually eats human flesh. So the
story of el Bone, it's kind of like Laierona, except
for he's he's the kid instead of the parents. So
he was the spoiled little boy who was just wicked,
and he got everything he wanted whenever he wanted it.
And he had asked his dad to go out and
(41:32):
kill a deer for dinner because he wanted deer that night,
and the dad failed to get a deer, and like
in his rage, he kills his own dad and he
chops him up to little pieces and takes him back
to his mother to cook for dinner. I mean, obviously
it's a folk tale, but still so because of his
horrible act, he's committed. His grandfather curses him to become
(41:56):
this sittle bone and he walks around parts of South
America and he looks like a corpse and he whistles,
and he will eat you, like he'll specifically he'll jab
like a needle into your stomach and then suck out
all your blood and then testines, and then what remains
of you he'll stuff in his knapsack on his back,
(42:17):
and then like your soul can never go to heaven
or hell. It's trapped on earth to wander because it's
like they're like anchored to him. So he's kind of
like a ghost slash zombie in my opinion, that's very scary,
very scary.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
Stay away, stay away from that.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
I think he could, he could go on to the
next level or.
Speaker 3 (42:41):
I don't know. I'm not too worried about him. I
think he's just made up.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
But I think so too.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
That's that's pretty frightening. Well, John, you know, it has
been very interesting to hear these stories about it, you know,
from your brand new book Cowboys and Zombies, with a
few other monsters like vampires and things like that. I
grew up in the era where we had Shock Theater
every Saturday afternoon, and I watched all these great vampire films,
(43:14):
all these great zombie films, and they really captured my imagination.
And I remember when professional wrestling used to characterize a
lot of their performers as zombies or vampires, and that
was always fun to me. That was something that I
really enjoyed. So, John, we really appreciate you taking your
(43:37):
time to talk about these monsters and how you assembled them,
and they're very very interesting. Do you have one final
short story that you'd like to share with us? And
then Doctor Trey, I'm going to give you the last
word tonight after John gives us one more story.
Speaker 3 (43:57):
All right, well it's not a short story, but I'll
make it short again. You know, I like to find
true stories that have supernatural elements to him, so that way,
you know, you can learn some real history along with
like the exciting stuff. So back in the eighteen eighties,
they had an Apache rebellion in Arizona, and I think
(44:20):
it was called the Battle of Sibeq Creek, and it's
in a you know, you can read all about the
real historic incident, but part of the hidden history of
that is there was a medicine man who wanted to
resurrect the deceased Chief Diablo. That was really his name
as far as the Anglos were concerned. I don't think
(44:40):
that was his Apache name, but the Anglos called him
Chief Diablo or Chief Devil, and this medicine man wanted
to resurrect him, like not as a ghost, but like
as an undead warrior to drive off the you know,
the Anglos and the new settlers. And it's just an
interesting hidden history. And I managed to add some stuff
(45:04):
in there that other authors haven't really ever connected to
that because I have some books about the Apache from
New Mexico and I was reading about how these Apache
from New Mexico went to visit this medicine man when
he was trying to resurrect Chief Diablo, and they really
claim that they saw this medicine man pull the spirits
(45:27):
of Chief Victorio and Mangus Colorados and a couple of
other Apache chiefs. I can't remember which ones. They claim
he really pulled him up out of the ground and
they saw him for a while like his ghosts, and
you know, that's their gospel, honest truth. So he didn't
resurrect Chief Diablo, but apparently he really did call forth
(45:48):
Chief Victorio or something for a while, which is interesting.
Speaker 1 (45:53):
Absolutely, that's quite frightening.
Speaker 3 (45:57):
I have a really short one, John that I think
people will find interesting. Just to please, I also did
two chapters on the legend of the little people. I mean,
we were talking about leprechauns earlier, so yeah, sure, right,
but we have Southwestern little people. They're like the leprechauns.
(46:17):
But to the Native Americans, they can be good or bad.
It just depends whether or not they like you. But
they're they're just magical little people. And they really believed
that these magical little people built mas Verde and Montezuma's castle,
and I've got chapters on that. And they did find
(46:38):
uh pigmy pigmy mummies in both of those locations. They
weren't fetuses or little children, they were adult pigmy little
people mummies. So there might have been some truth to
those stories too. So that's in the book too.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
Wow, that that is really interesting. That sounds a lot
like the Kelly little Green men from con Yeah, that too,
which which are you know far as I'm concerned. They're
very real and they're very frightening. Yes, I would invite
you to have the last word.
Speaker 2 (47:11):
I don't I don't know how much of the zombies
we covered, but we did cover lots of lots of different,
uh mysterious and uh different life forms that have that
are charged with all these uncanny abilities to suck people's
blood into into shape shift and all this. But when
you look back at those ancient texts, John LeMay, and
(47:33):
you know, I know you've got an extensive collection of
books you've written, but do you have you written one
on the ancients and their mythologicals like you talked about
the Samerians for instance. That I don't know what your
next book plans are, but if you're wrapping up with Cowboys,
(47:54):
maybe uh, maybe a delve into the ancient world's ancient
civilization and see what creatures bubble out of that cauldron.
Speaker 3 (48:04):
Well, the only reason I wouldn't do that is other
people have already done it, and they did it very well.
And I always try to do books that don't exist yet,
and there was nothing like Cowboys and Zombies. So that's
why I went for that one.
Speaker 2 (48:18):
I got you, I got you.
Speaker 1 (48:20):
That's a great reason to write what you do.
Speaker 2 (48:23):
Yeah, when you come on, it's always enjoyable, and we
always get into interesting tangents and yeah, things we never
suspected we talked about before.
Speaker 3 (48:31):
Yeah, I enjoy it too.
Speaker 1 (48:33):
Thank you well, John, thank you. Everybody go out and
buy a copy of Cowboys and Zombies. Just go to
Amazon type in John LeMay or type in Cowboys and
Zombies and Doctor Trey Dunaway. It's always great to have
you on here. You got some really interesting insights, and
I just love listening to you guys because it's a
lot of fun. In John LeMay, I've gotten some really
(48:58):
great ideas for things that could be written from our
discussions tonight, so that will be food for our thought
and thank you very much. This has been a number
another great scary cast. Thank you both of you for
being on here, and we'll be back next time, which
will be next week. And thanks a lot from the
(49:20):
one the only scary cast.
Speaker 2 (49:21):
Good night all, good night night,
Good evening in Live from Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, a
very special episode of Scary Cast. I am doctor John Stamy.
We're so glad to be with you tonight to announce
a very special event with very special guests. So it's
a lot of fun. First of all, I would like
to introduce my best co host in the world, Doctor
(00:26):
Trey Dunaway, the Leprecaun. How are you doing tonight, doctor Trey?
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Good John doing fine, happy to be well.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Good. We'll tell us a little bit about why I
called you the Leprechaun. Give a shame an unshameless plug
to the great event coming up in Camden. Well.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
We have the largest family friendly Saint Patrick's Day celebration
in Camden, South Carolina on March first, and if you
come to that event, you'll see why I grow this
beard starting between Thanksgiving and Christmas, and it will and
(01:07):
it will be orange when you see it on the
big stage. I am the Jumbo Leprecaun. Leprechauns coming to
different sizes small, medium, in large, and I'm the jumbo version.
So that is Camden, Irish Irish Fast Camden, which is
on March first. You can buy your tickets online at
(01:28):
cam Camden Irish Fest.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
And also you better be careful because Carolina Caricatures will
be back there. Tony and I will be there and
you can get you can get a picture drawn of you,
whoever you are, and the jumbo Leprecaun. That's gonna be
so awesome, and thank you for hooking us up with that.
(01:52):
And we can't wait to hang out with you all
day that Saturday, March the first, So.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
It's gonna be a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
It's gonna be a veryvery special day. So thanks a
lot for hooking us up. And I'm just going to
be so good to be in one of my favorite
towns in the world, Camden, South Carolina, the home of
one of the greatest golf courses in the United States.
And we we love, we just love Camden. So thanks
a lot.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Just go to Irishfestcamden dot com and you can see
all the Irish Fest information you care to see.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
That's right, and buy a ticket. Everybody, We command you
to buy tickets. It will be fun, all right. Tonight
we have a very special scary cast because today is
the world premiere of a new book by John LeMay,
(02:46):
one of our favorite authors and who an author that
I am now working with for a for a special.
We'll be talking about that as it gets going and everything.
But tonight we are going to talk about his brand
new book. It's called Cowboys and Zombies. Welcome John LeMay.
(03:06):
How are you doing tonight.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
I'm always happy to see doctor John and Tray. So
I'm doing good.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Well, that's good. We're glad to see you. It's gonna
be a lot of fun talking about one of my
couple of my favorite topics. I love cowboys, I love
the Southwest. You're from Roswell. There's a plug for Roswell.
What a great town. Great, what a great flying saucer
town that is. And of course we're going to talk
about cowboys and zombies. So I'm really excited about this,
(03:35):
all right, And so first of all, where do we
buy the book? And then I'm gonna start the questioning.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Just Amazon dot Com for everything. I like Amazon, they
pay me my money. So just search my name on
Amazon or search Cowboys and Zombies and you'll find it
pretty easy.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Well, that's great, I will be doing that soon.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Right.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
First question, and this is perhaps one of the most
important questions. I am very close friends with Kevin Holland
and with Sonia Thompson, and they played zombies on The
Walking Dead. So John tell us the difference between a
zombie and another paranormal entity, such as a ghost. That's
(04:26):
something that I know people would really like to hear.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Well. First, I think I'll start with the difference between
a real life zombie and a movie zombie, and then
I'll talk about differences with ghosts. So, in a movie,
a zombie is a reanimated corpse, you know, that's kind
of like an animal that you know, the soul of
the person that's gone, it's just their body and it,
(04:51):
you know, wants to devour human flesh. And real life
a zombie, you know, according to like voodoo, they're not
really in a lot of cases dead. It's it's a
live person who has been like bewitched or drugged into
being kind of this slave that's very susceptible to persuasion
(05:13):
and instruction. So I think that's you know, a real
zombie is if somebody's been drugged or hypnotized and then
they you know, you can tell them to do whatever
you want them to do. Now, a ghost, though, that's
just the spirit of a deported person, you know, showing
up and you know, doing whatever it's gonna do, whether
(05:33):
it's throwing rocks at the house or knocking on doors
or materializing, you know, in front of somebody. So yeah, zombies,
I guess are physical and ghosts are just spiritual.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Okay. Now, one of the things that I would like
to say is that we associate zombies with the Nation
of Haiti, correct.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Yeah, and that is really where it the idea originated
more than anywhere else. The word zombie comes from Brazil actually,
But the real concept of a zombie though, yeah, it's
all voodoo stuff.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Right, And that's very interesting. I know. We have White Zombie,
the great movie starring Bella Legosi from nineteen thirty nineteen thirty.
It was actually made after Dracula, but was released before
Dracula nineteen thirty one. One of the great horror films
(06:33):
of all time. And you know, it's a scary movie
because it talked. It shows that zombies can be coerced
into doing most anything. Is that right, John?
Speaker 3 (06:46):
Well, I didn't really have those types of zombies in
this book. And to be honest, so what this book
stemmed from, you know, we've talked before how Noe Taurus
and I do those Cowboys and Aliens books, which is
about UFO sidings in the Old West, And from that
I started doing books about cowboys and dinosaur sidings called
(07:06):
Cowboys and Saurians, you know. And when I say dinosaurs,
I mean, you know, like the Luckness Monster variety, where
you know, supposedly it's a dinosaur that made it into
the modern day. And that series did really well. There
was lots of material, and so I wanted to do
something similar and I was like, wow, I wonder if
(07:27):
it's like stories about cowboys and vampires and werewolves, and
there were. So I did a book called Cowboys and
Monsters and it was a big book, but inevitably there's
always stories I overlook and I missed the first time,
so I kind of just tucked them away until I
had enough, you know, material to make another book. And
(07:47):
initially I was going to call this one Cowboys and
Monsters the Lost Cases, but as I kind of sorted
through them, I had enough material that could be considered
zombie zombie adjacent. That is such a more marketable title
Cowboys and Zombies, and that's why I give it the
subtitle The Subtitle's subtitle is Vampires werewolves and revenants of
(08:12):
the Range and revenants were like an antiquated term for
the undead.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Wow, I was actually, I mean I do. I'm such
a vampire geek. I love you know, I love them,
I'll and I'll say that I was fortunate enough for
six months to have one of the greatest roommates of
all time. It was Bela Lugosi, the fourth And I
(08:39):
think probably the high point of my life was a
Saturday afternoon that I written. Now, this is just tells
you how old it was. I went and rented a
film called Plan nine from Outer Space, and he told
me why the Lagosi family did not like ed Wood.
And I still remember that. I've got the notes written down.
(09:00):
Maybe John, we can put that in a book sometime.
But I just really, I really enjoy vampires. I do.
And I'll say that I've got a brand new favorite
vampire film. And I don't know if you've seen it,
or Doctor Trey you have, but it is the BBC's
three part series called Dracula, and it is terrifying. I mean,
(09:25):
this is like, oh my god, I can't believe that
they really took Dracula and updated it and scarified it
to twenty twenty three. It was scary as all get
out and I loved it. I loved so John, did
you see that?
Speaker 3 (09:44):
I did? I? Yeah, maybe we could do a whole
episode on that sometime if you wanted, because yeah, I
it's still fresh in my mind. And I liked the
homage they did to Dracula AD nineteen seventy two where
they put Dracula in modern times. It was pretty unexpected.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Twist, right, And I'll tell you another Drakia. I'll just
and then we're gonna get on to to cowboys and vampires.
But I want to say congratulations to the great film Blacula.
That was a black version of Dracula and that was scary.
(10:21):
We'll we'll even add blackett Blacula to our list of
films that we will talk about. We will do that
soon enough, is that okay, John?
Speaker 3 (10:31):
Yeah? Yeah, because like I said, it's sooner's better than later,
because I'll forget the whole thing before long.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Okay, all right, So now it's story time with John LeMay.
You told me that you've got one of the most
incredible and frightening stories in the whole zombie literature, and
it took place in all places Texas. Tell us about it,
(11:00):
and Doctor Trey when he finishes, you might have a
corresponding story from Camden. I'll bet you have a little
bit about that. So listen carefully. And it's storytime first
of all, John LeMay our guest, and cowboys and zombies.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
So whenever I do these books, I always have to
decide what's gonna be the cover story, what's the most captivating,
what's a good chapter to kick the book off? And
so I'll hold it up for anybody that's watching it
on YouTube. You know, it's a headless horseman from Texas.
He's called El Muerto the Dead One. And the cool
thing about that story, it's a zombie story and a
(11:44):
ghost story, and it has historical pedigree that's like true
apparently because the people that are initially told the story,
their descendants say it's all true. So we'll get a
history lesson too. In eighteen forty eight, you know, they
had the Mexican American War where they were disputing the
(12:05):
border between Texas and Mexico, and that they had a
particular area called No Man's Land which was in between
the two disputed borders, which I think were like the
Rio Grande and the Nusis River, and that was a
particularly lawless area. But it's a cool story because it's
(12:28):
again it's about a headless horseman and the man who
was going to be the headless horseman. He was actually
a defector from the Mexican Army. He defected to the army,
you know whatever the Army of the Republic of Texas
was called. I forgot, he surrendered, He informed on his
general and so that's part of his background. His name
(12:51):
was Vidal. That's the only name ever been given to him,
and Vidal after becoming a after he was a defector,
he became a cattle wrestler and a horse thief. And
you know, cattle wrestling and horse wrestling was really really
bad along the border back around eighteen fifty and uh
(13:14):
you know, people were getting tired of it. And uh
so there was a Texas ranger named Creed Taylor and
he teamed up with big Foot Wallace to go on
track on this wrestler named yet All.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
So he so he teamed up with Bigfoot.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Huh yeah, big Foot Wallace. Yeah yeah to are they
no this big Foot was human? Yeah, unfortunately. Yeah, he's
just a human being. But uh so, this general Bigfoot Wallace,
he was successful in tracking down this horse wrestler named
(13:54):
by dal He killed him and all of his men,
and he wanted to make an example out of him,
you know, he wanted to really strike fear into the rustlers.
So he decided to decapitate his dead body, and then
he put the headless corpse on top of a wild mustang.
They you know, they basically lassoed this horse and then
somehow they actually you know, very tightly tied the body
(14:17):
to the horse, and then they also took the severed
head and put it in his sombrero and like latched
it in there, and they swung that from the saddle
of the horse, and they just set it off to
go run wild. And according to the story, you know,
people would see this headless rider and it would freak
him out and they'd shoot at it. And you know,
(14:38):
when they shot it, because it was tied upright to
this horse that wouldn't fall over, so they to them,
it looked like this unkillable headless being. So in that sense,
you know, it was a zombie. I mean, it wasn't really,
but it was a real corpse, you know, strap to
a horse. And eventually these ranch captured the horse when
(15:01):
it was at a watering hole and they managed to
get the body off of it, and I'm sure the
horse was thrilled to be shed of it, and they
gave the body a proper burial. But of course after
they buried the body, you know, they would still then
they would see the ghost of the Headless Horseman riding
the horse and striking terror into people. But Creed Taylor
(15:24):
his descendants say that's a true story, and yeah, that
really happened. And you know, can't prove that the ghost
is real, but that they decapitated this rustler and strapped
him to the back of his horse. That apparently is
true according to them, And it was a pretty sensational
story for a while. You know, we think of Washington
(15:44):
Irving's Ichobod Crane and the Headless Horseman as being the
most famous headless horseman story, and I guess it is.
But actually there's this huge, like I think, like one
hundred and fifty thousand word novel called The Headless Horseman,
A Strange Tale of Texas by Maine Reid, published in
(16:05):
eighteen sixty five, and we don't really remember it today,
but back in the old days that was a popular novel.
And I mean now the ich Ichabod Crane story has
really outlived it. But I think in you know, the
past two centuries, Maine Reads book was pretty well read.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
On John, Is that something that I could buy on Amazon?
Maine Reads Book?
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Yes? And I'll just say too, John, it's a public
domain book, so if nobody beats me to it, I'm
gonna do my own annotated edition of that.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Now.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Is this Headless Horseman the same headless horseman in your story?
Is it the same entity?
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Yeah, of course yes, hell yeah. And this this nonfiction
book Cowboys and Zombies. Yeah, elmoreto the Headless Horseman of Texas.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
Yeah. But and there's other Headless Horseman in the Southwest.
I've gotten the book too. And then there's you know,
you guys have your own headless.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
Horseman over in the south huh several, Doctor Trey, Do
you know enough about the Headless Horsemen of Camden to
give us a quick rundown of it?
Speaker 2 (17:23):
John, I've never heard of the Headless Horseman of Camden.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
That came from Rusty. What's the Rusty's last.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Name Rusty Major.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Rusty Major, that's right. So we got to get Rusty
Major on here to talk about the headless horsemen of Camden.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Although I think I know where Texas zombies or a
zombie influencer is that has come from Texas.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Okay, right, because from what I know, Rusty Major told
me a story and it's in the ghost Book of
Camden that I have over there that he sought me.
It talks about a headless horseman that romped around Camden,
South Carolina, which is, if I'm not mistaken, full of ghosts?
(18:12):
Is that correct, Doctor Trey.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
I don't know any of them personally, but I do
know about zombies.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
I want I want to hear about the Texas zombies.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Texas zombies, I believe they originate from BUCkies gas stations.
You know, BUCkies is now spread to it's in it's
near Myrtle Beach. And yes, you see people staggering out
of BUCkies and they've got they've got the brisket sandwiches,
(18:43):
they've got uh a great jerky, they've got fudge, they've
got roasted nuts. And when they stagger out of BUCkies,
they are full of this and they look like zombies.
Is they egg and that that's a origin I understand.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Okay, well, thank you, we will we will check we
will check that out and I'll take some pictures the
next time I'm I'm I'm at the intersection of Highway
three seventy eight and Interstate No Interstate ninety five. That's
where That's where BUCkies was in Florence.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
BUCkies is just a great place.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Oh it is. I love the love the food, and John,
when you get to come over here, I'll have to
take you to BUCkies and we'll meet doctor Trey there
and we'll we'll there lots of brisket. That'll be that'll
be an incredible amount of fun. But yeah, you know, John,
zombie stories are very interesting because they're they're a missmash
(19:47):
of both supernatural zombies and of course real zombies. People
who have been enchanted were disenchanted with spells, and they're
they're kind of scary. Do you agree with.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
That, John, Yes? And then there's one other I guess
you'd call it a scientific zombie. There are people who
have died but their corpses like have some electrical impulses
that made them move after they should have been dead
and I've got a couple of stories like that in
the book as well.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Okay, well that's great.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Now.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
You said you told me in the green room that
you had a very interesting story at the end of
the book. You just told us about the first story,
which is the Texas Headless Horseman, and you said that
you had a really interesting zombie story at the end
of the book. Is that correct? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (20:42):
I mean, I think you could call it a zombie
story because it wasn't about ghosts, you know, because there's
a difference between spirits and dead bodies. So in New
Mexico we have ship Rock Peak, which is you know,
sacred to the Navajo nation, and in the eighteen nineties
there was there were some gold finds on the Navajo
(21:02):
reservation and they really got scared that, you know, the
US government might relocate some of their lands so that
it could be mined for gold. And it brought up
an old legend that back in the days of the
Spanish conquistadors, that they had had a mine near a
Shiprock Peak and that they had enslaved the Navajo to
(21:25):
mine it, but that eventually the dead Navajo who were
slain like rose back up and like drove away the
Spanish kind of like, you know, an undead army from
one of those Brendan Fraser mummy movies.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Oh those were I love those movies.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
In a cautionary tale for anybody who comes to Shiprock
to making a fortune.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Yeah, yeah, there's lots of cool legends about Shiprock. There's
some ancient aliens type stuff with that place, because the
Navajos said that it was an ancient ship with wings
that brought them to that area and then it landed
there and settled.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Wow, now where is that is that? Is that a
story that we can read somewhere?
Speaker 3 (22:15):
Yeah, it's a pretty common legend. Any book of Novljo mythology,
creation myths all that should have it. And yeah, ship
Rock peaks in like northeastern New Mexico or no, wait,
north northwestern New Mexico.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
I'm writing this down because whenever I, whenever I have
you on as a guest, I get some of the
best ideas and references for stories that that I could
ever get, and we normally talk about them at some point.
And I had gone back, I had gone over there.
That's why I disappeared. I came back with a book
(22:55):
that you Attitude. Yeah, magazine, and it has a story
that I wrote called The Problem in Entering a Cave.
And you know, John May, there is more to that
story than appears in your book. So we need to
talk about this. I mean, I just I love Ambrose Bierce.
(23:19):
Ambrose Bierce was one of the greatest American authors in history.
He was a great fiction writer, he was a great reporter.
He also did The Devil's Dictionary. And we need to
talk about Ambrose Biers sometime because he's just he just
looms large as a great intellect, and he wrote a
(23:40):
lot of fun things that we need to talk about.
So I May note I have all these notes in
the book. So yeah, it's absolutely grand. So you talk
about cowboys and zombies. What are some more interesting stories
that you can tell us about the cowboys and the zombies.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
Some of the most interesting stuff I find is just
in going through old issues of True West and Frontier Times.
So something you know today we have this term of
the skin walker, which is like Native American or Novajo
werewolf shape shifter. So they didn't have that word. It
(24:24):
wasn't a word in the public consciousness back in the
nineteen forties and the nineteen sixties. But I found this
story in an old Frontier Times called Cash of Skulls,
and it was about this grave robber who was exhuming
recently deceased graves and cutting off the heads and stealing them.
(24:48):
And what was freaky is and it was a true story,
you know, told by the son of somebody who experienced
at firsthand back in the late eighteen hundreds. He took
place in eighteen ninety nine, and there was an Indian
trader that was a part of the story who got
all of it firsthand from people on the reservations in
(25:10):
the area where he lived and operated. But whatever, these
graves would be desecrated. The thing is, they would never
ever find human footprints. They would find the footprints of
a coyote. And one of the guys is his baby's sister.
Her grave got desecrated, so he, you know, he was
(25:31):
understandably very angry. So he started doing stakeouts at the
graves to watch for, you know, the perpetrator. And he
did see a man crawling up to the grave wearing
a coyote pelt, and he shot at him and he
hit him, and the guy ran off on foot into
the darkness. And the younger guy got on his horse
(25:55):
and chased him, and this guy actually out ran him
on his horse on foot, which you know, seems kind
of supernatural, and he did eventually catch the guy and
kill him. And I mean, at the end of the story,
he was just a normal human being, but he did
wear animal skins, and he was very fleet footed, and
he could always outrun him no matter what it seemed like.
(26:18):
So that's an interesting story. I've gotten the book. I
titled it The skull Snatching skin Walker. I did another
chapter just on vampires of the Southwest and how different
they are. And I think one thing that's interesting to
talk about is movies have really defined what we consider
(26:41):
a vampire, a werewolf, a witch, a zombie. But back
in the old days, everything was basically just a witch,
you know, male or female. You know, it was a
witch because witches were thought to drink blood like vampires.
Witches were thought to turn into animals like wolves. There's
the lore that if you killed a were wolf, it
(27:04):
would then rise again as a vampire. So all this
stuff in the old days was very linked. You know.
It's only really due to our films that we've you know,
started to define a vampire and say what it is.
But back in old folklore, they're all very very interchangeable.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Really, well, that's that is that is kind of interesting
because you're right, back in the sixteen hundreds were talking
about vampires, talking about wolf witches. Yeah, then that could
have spawned specialized witches, the variety were wolf, variety of witch.
(27:44):
So it's it's like the overall is a witch, and
then as time progressed, they became specialized into different, different
specific creatures manifesting certain characteristics of the original witch. The
witches were like piece of their day, and then they
get specialists spinning off from that.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Yeah, you know, it's it's really interesting that when you
look at the Dracula legend by Bram Stoker, you see
a lot of werewolf and traditional witch behaviors in the vampire.
And I mean just that was, like, you know, truly
(28:27):
one of the greatest Gothic horror mood of movies, one
of the greatest Gothic horror books of all time. He
combined a number of things, and what most people don't
know is his brothers helped him create the mythos of
the vampire. And it's just it's it's just an incredible
(28:51):
and I think the most unbelievable scene in the Dracula
book is towards the very end where it's snowing and
there there are wolves all around the stage coach, and
it's just that is a terrifying scene if you read
it just you know, kind of you know whatever, if
(29:13):
you just read it and think about it, and then
of course there is and a lot of people don't
know this. The short story Dracula's Guest, which was taken
out of the book Dracula, was the first chapter, and
that is really really a frightening It's a frightening little
(29:34):
chapter about a woman, you know, Jonathan Harker walks into
the crypt and sees a woman who looks voluptuous and
very well preserved, and she sets up scares the fool
out of it. It's just there are some great elements
of Dracula that have to do with witches, wear wolves
(29:57):
and things like that, and I think they did they
did an incredible job and in creating this mythos of
the vampire. So so you have a chapter on vampires
in your book Cowboys and Zombies, right.
Speaker 3 (30:19):
Yeah, And with the very Southwestern flair and Uh, you
brought up something that I meant to include in this
book and I didn't do it. So in reading Dracula,
I always wondered why, uh Stoker wanted to include this
character of the Texas cowboy Quincy. I can't remember his name.
It's it's Quincy something, Quincy Morris. I don't know Quincy.
(30:42):
He's he's a six shooter cowboy Texan. And it turns
out that Bram Stoker, back when he was working with
a touring theater company, had come to America and toured
the American Southwest and that's where he got his inspiration
to include the Quincy character. So I'm meant to do
a little chapter on that in the book, and I
(31:02):
just ran out of time and I forgot. So everything
is connected.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
For the next edition, you can add it.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
Well, I don't know if I'm going to do another
like Cowboy and Monster book. I really want this to
be the last one, so I don't know. We'll see.
But back to like vampires in the Southwest, you guys
probably remember, I don't worry. I don't mean firsthand, I
just mean in general. You guys, remember the scare of
(31:32):
World War of the world's broadcast in nineteen thirty eight.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Yes, yeah, like.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
The big uproar that caused that people thought it was real. Well,
they had that same year in nineteen thirty eight, they
broadcast a play about a vampire on the radio, and
people also thought it was real, specifically in the ol
Paso region, they really I guess kids were actually terrified
to go outside and go to school, and there were
(32:00):
so many complaints about it they had to do a
follow up broadcast, you know, explaining that it was just
a play and it wasn't real. So I thought that
was interesting, and I've got that in the book.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
Really tell us a little bit about that story. That's interesting,
and I have never heard of it.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
Yeah, that's really all there is to it. It's just
interesting that people still believed in vampires then. But there
were a lot of Hispanic Southwest Native American type vampire stories.
And you know, I think we've talked about this before,
but in nineteen fifties Mexico they actually received so many
(32:43):
death certificates for infants that listed the cause of death
as and I quote sucked by the witch, is then
drained of blood by the witch, that the Mexican government
actually sent out like investigators to go see what was
up with it, and the people would all claim that
(33:03):
this vampire witch would come into their houses at night
and kill their babies, and you know, as far as
they were concerned, that's what was happening.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Was there any any type of conclusion, drang.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
No, because I don't think they ever actually did autopsy.
Autopsies on the babies is the odd thing. From what
I understood, they they might have done one autopsy, but
they didn't really do very many. I think they just
kind of brushed it off, as you know, the baby's
getting cold in the night or something like that. But
(33:41):
they would some of them would claim that they saw
like a vampire enter the house in the form of
like some sort of bird, and they would claim that
it would emit a type of miss that caused paralysis
to where they were helpless. But you know, anything, Yeah,
from that long ago, it's it's hard to know what's
(34:02):
true and what's not.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Doctor Trey. Do you know any stories like that in
the United.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
States about vampire activities? Yeah, people dry of blood, yeah,
called insurance companies.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
Yeah, okay, that's the that's the modern vampire, I think.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Yeah, right, there were there were there were a lot
of great stories and that that's an interesting one that John.
So that's in your book Cowboys and Cowboys and Zombies,
And we've all got to get a copy of that
book so that we can see these stories and and
and learn about these myths, because the myths are part
(34:49):
of what created us, don't you thank John?
Speaker 3 (34:53):
Absolutely? And it's you know, it's a fun way to
learn your history. You know, folklore has a lot of
real history in it. Like got a chapter on a
zombie cow or a zombie steer, Texas longhorn steer that
belonged to Billy the Kids' boss, John Chisholm and all
the cowboys started branding it with these nefarias brands like
(35:14):
snakes and scorpions and skulls and crossbones, and one of
them even put a hex on it. And from that
day forward, this steer was allegedly cursed. And when they
loaded it up on a train in Amarillo, Texas to
ship it to the Eastern markets, the train it was
on crashed and I actually researched that. You know, most
(35:37):
people just took it at face value, like, oh, the
train crashed, and yeada, YadA, YadA, but I went through
the newspapers of the time. The year was eighteen eighty eight,
and I found two train crashes outside of Amarillo, Texas
in late eighteen eighty eight, which is when this happened.
So you know, I think I found the real train crash.
(35:58):
Doesn't mean the was actually cursed or that it was
a zombie cow or anything like that, but you know,
it all adds up. But yeah, after the train crash, though,
they would still see this cursed cow with all these
weird brands on it roaming the ranges, and wherever they
saw it there would be this horrible look. So that's
(36:18):
you know, I think I've got a good variety in
this book if I can work in like a zombie cow.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
I you know, John, let me let me back up
a second, back to that concept where the witches started
and then branches. I get the image like a tree
and the base of that tree is a witch, and
then but has a branch off and that becomes a vampire.
And all that has ever tracked back to the first reference,
(36:52):
documented reference of which which I would imagine would be
pretty old because I think witches have been with a
long time. But when the first mention of zombie or
vampire or shape shifter or is there is there any
I wonder what the sequence would look like to go
(37:13):
back to UH to try to figure out the first
time a recorded statement about one of these different versions
was was printed, and then to look at the timeline
from the time which is developed, and then when these
other characteristics evolved with their own separate names. What do
(37:33):
you have any idea what how how that spread over
time would have evolved the evolution of those subsets of witches.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
Yes, So going back to like ancient Sumeria or Summer,
they had blood drinking bird women they called the Stricts
I think, and and also the stricks were related to
the she demon called Lilith or do and they're all
they're super similar to these supposed vampire witches of the
(38:06):
nineteen fifties Mexico because they, you know, they weren't like
vampire bats. They were birds. Very specifically, they were blood
drinking birds, which is also what they were in Sumeria.
And Lilith had a lot of bird like traits and
some of her depictions. And I would bet a lot
of our listeners know what Lilith is, but she's she's
(38:30):
like I don't know what you'd call it, Jewish folklore
or apocryphia. She's not in the Genesis story, but according
to folklore, before Eve, there was Lilith, and Lilith was
created out of the dust of the earth, just like Adam,
and therefore if she was equal to him, because she
wasn't like created from his rib And the story was
(38:51):
that Lilith didn't really want to submit to Adam, you know,
she she wanted an equal type of partnership, and then
she was basically like cursed for that and she became
a she demon who her main purpose was to kill
the offspring of Adam and Eves. So that might be
kind of the origin of like a female witch. I guess,
(39:14):
m hmm.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
That's very interesting, John, because we have little Lilith is
a character that always appears throughout television. Yeah, I mean,
I think Lilith appeared in Seinfeld. She was in Cheers.
She cheers Cheers, Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
Wasn't she Niles his wife?
Speaker 3 (39:40):
No, she was Fraser's wife. Yeah, And and they chose
that name to make her, you know, cold and all
the things that she is.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
Right.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
Wow, I tell you, mythology really permeates our yes, culture
and yeah comes off often today it's in a humorous
way like Lilith, but still the origins of that if
that's I mean, obviously the writers chose the name Lilith
is in a real common name, so they specifically. So
(40:17):
I'm sure the person that chose that used that name
specifically because of the Lilith legends.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
Yeah, I guess it goes to show you be careful
about using names Lilith and Damien for your kids. Yeah,
they might mean something that you don't really want to
attach to them.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
After watching the movie, I don't think I could ever
name my child Damien.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
You my goodness, I know that's yeah, it's amazing.
Speaker 3 (40:50):
And look after my book, I feel like people want
to hear about zombies and I found a good one.
He's from South America and he's the Whistling Zombie. His
name's Elsie sytle Bone, and he looks like a zombie.
Again for the YouTube, people all hold up the picture,
you know that looks like a zombie and he's one
(41:11):
of the few that actually eats human flesh. So the
story of el Bone, it's kind of like Laierona, except
for he's he's the kid instead of the parents. So
he was the spoiled little boy who was just wicked,
and he got everything he wanted whenever he wanted it.
And he had asked his dad to go out and
(41:32):
kill a deer for dinner because he wanted deer that night,
and the dad failed to get a deer, and like
in his rage, he kills his own dad and he
chops him up to little pieces and takes him back
to his mother to cook for dinner. I mean, obviously
it's a folk tale, but still so because of his
horrible act, he's committed. His grandfather curses him to become
(41:56):
this sittle bone and he walks around parts of South
America and he looks like a corpse and he whistles,
and he will eat you, like he'll specifically he'll jab
like a needle into your stomach and then suck out
all your blood and then testines, and then what remains
of you he'll stuff in his knapsack on his back,
(42:17):
and then like your soul can never go to heaven
or hell. It's trapped on earth to wander because it's
like they're like anchored to him. So he's kind of
like a ghost slash zombie in my opinion, that's very scary,
very scary.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
Stay away, stay away from that.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
I think he could, he could go on to the
next level or.
Speaker 3 (42:41):
I don't know. I'm not too worried about him. I
think he's just made up.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
But I think so too.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
That's that's pretty frightening. Well, John, you know, it has
been very interesting to hear these stories about it, you know,
from your brand new book Cowboys and Zombies, with a
few other monsters like vampires and things like that. I
grew up in the era where we had Shock Theater
every Saturday afternoon, and I watched all these great vampire films,
(43:14):
all these great zombie films, and they really captured my imagination.
And I remember when professional wrestling used to characterize a
lot of their performers as zombies or vampires, and that
was always fun to me. That was something that I
really enjoyed. So, John, we really appreciate you taking your
(43:37):
time to talk about these monsters and how you assembled them,
and they're very very interesting. Do you have one final
short story that you'd like to share with us? And
then Doctor Trey, I'm going to give you the last
word tonight after John gives us one more story.
Speaker 3 (43:57):
All right, well it's not a short story, but I'll
make it short again. You know, I like to find
true stories that have supernatural elements to him, so that way,
you know, you can learn some real history along with
like the exciting stuff. So back in the eighteen eighties,
they had an Apache rebellion in Arizona, and I think
(44:20):
it was called the Battle of Sibeq Creek, and it's
in a you know, you can read all about the
real historic incident, but part of the hidden history of
that is there was a medicine man who wanted to
resurrect the deceased Chief Diablo. That was really his name
as far as the Anglos were concerned. I don't think
(44:40):
that was his Apache name, but the Anglos called him
Chief Diablo or Chief Devil, and this medicine man wanted
to resurrect him, like not as a ghost, but like
as an undead warrior to drive off the you know,
the Anglos and the new settlers. And it's just an
interesting hidden history. And I managed to add some stuff
(45:04):
in there that other authors haven't really ever connected to
that because I have some books about the Apache from
New Mexico and I was reading about how these Apache
from New Mexico went to visit this medicine man when
he was trying to resurrect Chief Diablo, and they really
claim that they saw this medicine man pull the spirits
(45:27):
of Chief Victorio and Mangus Colorados and a couple of
other Apache chiefs. I can't remember which ones. They claim
he really pulled him up out of the ground and
they saw him for a while like his ghosts, and
you know, that's their gospel, honest truth. So he didn't
resurrect Chief Diablo, but apparently he really did call forth
(45:48):
Chief Victorio or something for a while, which is interesting.
Speaker 1 (45:53):
Absolutely, that's quite frightening.
Speaker 3 (45:57):
I have a really short one, John that I think
people will find interesting. Just to please, I also did
two chapters on the legend of the little people. I mean,
we were talking about leprechauns earlier, so yeah, sure, right,
but we have Southwestern little people. They're like the leprechauns.
(46:17):
But to the Native Americans, they can be good or bad.
It just depends whether or not they like you. But
they're they're just magical little people. And they really believed
that these magical little people built mas Verde and Montezuma's castle,
and I've got chapters on that. And they did find
(46:38):
uh pigmy pigmy mummies in both of those locations. They
weren't fetuses or little children, they were adult pigmy little
people mummies. So there might have been some truth to
those stories too. So that's in the book too.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
Wow, that that is really interesting. That sounds a lot
like the Kelly little Green men from con Yeah, that too,
which which are you know far as I'm concerned. They're
very real and they're very frightening. Yes, I would invite
you to have the last word.
Speaker 2 (47:11):
I don't I don't know how much of the zombies
we covered, but we did cover lots of lots of different,
uh mysterious and uh different life forms that have that
are charged with all these uncanny abilities to suck people's
blood into into shape shift and all this. But when
you look back at those ancient texts, John LeMay, and
(47:33):
you know, I know you've got an extensive collection of
books you've written, but do you have you written one
on the ancients and their mythologicals like you talked about
the Samerians for instance. That I don't know what your
next book plans are, but if you're wrapping up with Cowboys,
(47:54):
maybe uh, maybe a delve into the ancient world's ancient
civilization and see what creatures bubble out of that cauldron.
Speaker 3 (48:04):
Well, the only reason I wouldn't do that is other
people have already done it, and they did it very well.
And I always try to do books that don't exist yet,
and there was nothing like Cowboys and Zombies. So that's
why I went for that one.
Speaker 2 (48:18):
I got you, I got you.
Speaker 1 (48:20):
That's a great reason to write what you do.
Speaker 2 (48:23):
Yeah, when you come on, it's always enjoyable, and we
always get into interesting tangents and yeah, things we never
suspected we talked about before.
Speaker 3 (48:31):
Yeah, I enjoy it too.
Speaker 1 (48:33):
Thank you well, John, thank you. Everybody go out and
buy a copy of Cowboys and Zombies. Just go to
Amazon type in John LeMay or type in Cowboys and
Zombies and Doctor Trey Dunaway. It's always great to have
you on here. You got some really interesting insights, and
I just love listening to you guys because it's a
lot of fun. In John LeMay, I've gotten some really
(48:58):
great ideas for things that could be written from our
discussions tonight, so that will be food for our thought
and thank you very much. This has been a number
another great scary cast. Thank you both of you for
being on here, and we'll be back next time, which
will be next week. And thanks a lot from the
(49:20):
one the only scary cast.
Speaker 2 (49:21):
Good night all, good night night,
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com