December 26, 2025 • 11 mins
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Summit by Mack Reynolds. Almost anything, if it goes on
long enough, can be reduced to first a routine and
then to a tradition. At that point it is obviously necessary.
Two king sized bands blared martial music, the Internacional and
(00:22):
the star spangled banner, each seemingly trying to drown the
other in a guttr dahmerung of acoustics. Two lines of troops,
surfacely differing in uniforms and in weapons, but basically so
very much the same, so evenly matched, came to attention.
(00:43):
A thousand hands slapped a thousand submachine gun stocks. Marshal
Vladimir Ignatov strode stiff kneed down the long march, the
stride of a man for years used to calvalry boots.
He was flanked by rosen visaged subordinates, but none so
(01:03):
cold a face as he himself. At the entrance to
the conference hall, he stopped, turned and waited. At the
end of the corridor of troops, a car stopped and
several figures emerged, most of them in civilian dress, several
bearing briefcases. They in their turn ran the gauntlet. At
(01:25):
therefore walked James Warren Don Levy sprightly, his eyes darting
here and there, Politician like a half smile on his face,
as though afraid he might forget to greet a voter
he knew, or was supposed to know. His hand was
out before that of Vladimir Ignatov's, your excellency, he said.
(01:46):
Ignatov shook hands stiffly dropped that of the others as
soon as protocol would permit. The Field Marshal indicated the
door of the conference room. There is little reason to
waste time, mister president exactly. Don Leavy snapped. The door
closed behind them, and the two men, one uniformed and
(02:06):
be meddled, the other, Natalie, attired in his business suit,
turned to each other. Nice to see you again, Vovo.
How's Olga and the baby? The soldier grinned back in response,
two babies, Now, you don't keep up on the real news, Jim,
how's Martha? They shook hands. Not so good, Jim said, scowling.
(02:26):
I'm worried it's that new cancer. As soon as we
conquer one type two more rear up. How are you
people doing on cancer research? Vovo was stripping off his tunic.
He hung it over the back of one of the chairs,
began to unbutton his high tight military collar. I'm really
not up on a Jim, but I think that's one
field where you can trust anything we know to be
(02:49):
in the regular scientific journals. Are people exchanged with yours.
I'll make some inquiries when I get back home, though
you never know this new strain I guess you'd call
it might be one that we're up on and you're not. Yeah,
said Jim. Thanks a lot. He crossed to the small
portable bar. How about a drink, whiskey, vodka, rum, there's ice.
(03:12):
Vovo slumped into one of the heavy chairs that were
arranged around the table. He grimaced, No vodka, I don't
feel patriotic today. How about one of those long cold
drinks with the cool of stuff cubilibra. Jim said, coming up, Look,
would you rather speak Russian? No? Vovo said, My English
(03:33):
is getting rusty. I need the practice. Jim brought the
glasses over and put them on the table. He began
stripping off his own coat and loosening his tie. God,
I'm tired, he said. This sort of thing wears me down.
Vovos sipped his drink. Now there's as good a thing
to discuss as any in the way of killing time.
The truth. Now, Jim, do you really believe in a god?
(03:56):
After all that's happened to this human race of ours?
Do you really believe in defining guidance? He twisted his
mouth sarcastically. The other relaxed. I don't know, he said.
I suppose so I was raised in a family that
believed in God, just as I suppose you were raised
in one that didn't. He lifted his shoulders slightly in
(04:18):
a shrug. Neither of us seems to be particularly brilliant
in establishing a position of our own, Vovo snorted. Never
thought of it that way, he admitted. We're usually contemptuous
of anyone still holding to the old beliefs. There aren't
many left more the new people admit, I understand. Voval
(04:39):
shook his heavy head. No, not really, mostly crackpots. Have
you ever noticed how it is the non conformists in
any society that are usually crackpots. The people on your
side that admit belonging to our organizations are usually on
the wild eyed and uncombed hair side admit it. On
(05:00):
the other hand, the people in our citizenry who subscribe
to your system, your religion. That sort of thing are
crackpots too. Applies to religion as well as politics. An
atheist in your country is a nonconformist in mind, A
Christian is both crackpots. Jim laughed and took a sip
of his drink. Vovo yawned and said, how long are
(05:23):
we going to be in here? I don't know, Jim
said up to us, I suppose, yes, how about another drink,
I'll make it. How much of that coal of stuff
do you put in? Jim tolding, and while the other
was on his feet mixing the drinks, said you figure
on sticking to the same line this year? Have to?
Vovo said over his shoulder, what's the alternative? I don't know.
(05:47):
We're building up to a whale of a depression as
it is, even with half the economy running full blast
producing defense materials. Vovo chuckled, defense materials. I wonder if ever,
in the history of a human race anyone ever admitted
to producing offense materials. Well, you call it the same thing.
(06:08):
All your military equipment is for defense, and of course,
according to your press, all of ours is for offense.
Of course, Bobo said. He brought the glasses back and
handed one to the other. He slopped back into his
chair again, loosened two buttons of his trousers. Jim Bobo said,
why don't you divert more of your economy to public works,
(06:30):
better roads, reforestation, dams, that sort of thing. Jim said wearily,
you're a better economist than that. Didn't your boy Marx
or was it Ingles write a small book on the subject.
We're already overproducing, turning out more products than we can sell.
I wasn't talking about your government building new steel mills,
(06:52):
but dams, roads, that sort of thing. You could plow
billions into such items and get some real use out
of them. We both know that our weapons will never
be used. They can't be Jim ticked them off on
his fingers. We're already producing more farm products than we
know what to do with. If we build more dams,
(07:12):
it'll open up new farm lands and increase the glut.
If we build more and better roads, it'll improve transportation,
which will mean fewer men will be able to move
greater tonnage and throw transportation employees into the unemployed. If
we go all out on reforestation, it'll eventually bring down
the price of lumber, and the lumber people are howling
(07:34):
already now, he shook his head. There's just one really
fool proof way of disposing of surpluses and using up
labor power, and that's war, hot or cold. Vovo shrugged.
I suppose, so it amounts to building pyramids, of course,
(07:55):
Jim twisted his mouth sourly. And since we're asking questions
about each other's way alive, when is your state going
to begin to wither away? How was that? Vovo asked,
According to your sainted founder, once you people came to power,
the state was going to wither away. Class rule would
(08:16):
be over and utopia would be on hand. That was
a long time ago, and your state is stronger than ours,
Vovo snorted. How can we wither away the state as
long as we're threatened by capitalist aggression, Jim said, Havovo
went on, you know better than that, Jim. The only
(08:40):
way my organization can keep in power is by continually
beating the drums, keeping our people stirred up to greater
and greater sacrifices, by using you as a threat. Then
the old Romans have some sort of maxim to the
effect that when you're threatened with unease at home stir
(09:00):
up trouble abroad. You're being even more frank than usual,
Jim said, But that's one of the pleasures of these
get togethers. Neither of us resorts to hypocrisy. But you
can't keep up these tensions forever. You mean, we can't
keep up these tensions forever, Jim. And when they end, well, personally,
(09:24):
I can't see my organization going out without a bloodbath,
he grimaced sourly. And since I'd probably be one of
the first to be bathed, I'd like to postpone the time.
It's like having a tiger by the tail, Jim. We
can't let go happily. I don't feel in the same spot,
(09:45):
Jim said. He got up and went to the picture
window that took up one entire wall. It faced out
over a mountain vista. He looked soberly into the sky.
Vovo joined him, glass in hand. Possibly your position isn't
exactly the same as ours, but there'll be some awfully
(10:05):
great changes. If that military based economy of yours suddenly
had peace thrust upon it, you'd have a depression such
as you've never dreamed of. Let's face reality, Jim, neither
of us can afford peace. Well, we've both known that
for a long time. They both considered somberly, the planet
(10:29):
Earth blazing away, a small sun there in the sky.
Jim said, I sometimes think that the race would have
been better off when Man was colonizing Venus and Mars,
if it had been a joint enterprise, rather than you
people doing one and we doing the other. If it
(10:51):
had all been in the hands of that organization, the
United Nations. Vovo supplied. Then when bomb they hit, perhaps
these new worlds could have gone on to well better things. Perhaps,
Vovo shrugged. I've often wondered how bom Day started. Who
(11:12):
struck the spark? Happily there were enough colonists on both
planets to start the race all over again. Jim said,
what difference does it make who struck the spark? None?
I suppose Vovo began to button his collar, readjust his clothes. Well,
shall we emerge and let the quaking multitudes know that
(11:35):
once again we've made a shaky agreement, one that will
last until the next summit meeting. End of summit, my
mac Reynolds
Summit by Mack Reynolds. Almost anything, if it goes on
long enough, can be reduced to first a routine and
then to a tradition. At that point it is obviously necessary.
Two king sized bands blared martial music, the Internacional and
(00:22):
the star spangled banner, each seemingly trying to drown the
other in a guttr dahmerung of acoustics. Two lines of troops,
surfacely differing in uniforms and in weapons, but basically so
very much the same, so evenly matched, came to attention.
(00:43):
A thousand hands slapped a thousand submachine gun stocks. Marshal
Vladimir Ignatov strode stiff kneed down the long march, the
stride of a man for years used to calvalry boots.
He was flanked by rosen visaged subordinates, but none so
(01:03):
cold a face as he himself. At the entrance to
the conference hall, he stopped, turned and waited. At the
end of the corridor of troops, a car stopped and
several figures emerged, most of them in civilian dress, several
bearing briefcases. They in their turn ran the gauntlet. At
(01:25):
therefore walked James Warren Don Levy sprightly, his eyes darting
here and there, Politician like a half smile on his face,
as though afraid he might forget to greet a voter
he knew, or was supposed to know. His hand was
out before that of Vladimir Ignatov's, your excellency, he said.
(01:46):
Ignatov shook hands stiffly dropped that of the others as
soon as protocol would permit. The Field Marshal indicated the
door of the conference room. There is little reason to
waste time, mister president exactly. Don Leavy snapped. The door
closed behind them, and the two men, one uniformed and
(02:06):
be meddled, the other, Natalie, attired in his business suit,
turned to each other. Nice to see you again, Vovo.
How's Olga and the baby? The soldier grinned back in response,
two babies, Now, you don't keep up on the real news, Jim,
how's Martha? They shook hands. Not so good, Jim said, scowling.
(02:26):
I'm worried it's that new cancer. As soon as we
conquer one type two more rear up. How are you
people doing on cancer research? Vovo was stripping off his tunic.
He hung it over the back of one of the chairs,
began to unbutton his high tight military collar. I'm really
not up on a Jim, but I think that's one
field where you can trust anything we know to be
(02:49):
in the regular scientific journals. Are people exchanged with yours.
I'll make some inquiries when I get back home, though
you never know this new strain I guess you'd call
it might be one that we're up on and you're not. Yeah,
said Jim. Thanks a lot. He crossed to the small
portable bar. How about a drink, whiskey, vodka, rum, there's ice.
(03:12):
Vovo slumped into one of the heavy chairs that were
arranged around the table. He grimaced, No vodka, I don't
feel patriotic today. How about one of those long cold
drinks with the cool of stuff cubilibra. Jim said, coming up, Look,
would you rather speak Russian? No? Vovo said, My English
(03:33):
is getting rusty. I need the practice. Jim brought the
glasses over and put them on the table. He began
stripping off his own coat and loosening his tie. God,
I'm tired, he said. This sort of thing wears me down.
Vovos sipped his drink. Now there's as good a thing
to discuss as any in the way of killing time.
The truth. Now, Jim, do you really believe in a god?
(03:56):
After all that's happened to this human race of ours?
Do you really believe in defining guidance? He twisted his
mouth sarcastically. The other relaxed. I don't know, he said.
I suppose so I was raised in a family that
believed in God, just as I suppose you were raised
in one that didn't. He lifted his shoulders slightly in
(04:18):
a shrug. Neither of us seems to be particularly brilliant
in establishing a position of our own, Vovo snorted. Never
thought of it that way, he admitted. We're usually contemptuous
of anyone still holding to the old beliefs. There aren't
many left more the new people admit, I understand. Voval
(04:39):
shook his heavy head. No, not really, mostly crackpots. Have
you ever noticed how it is the non conformists in
any society that are usually crackpots. The people on your
side that admit belonging to our organizations are usually on
the wild eyed and uncombed hair side admit it. On
(05:00):
the other hand, the people in our citizenry who subscribe
to your system, your religion. That sort of thing are
crackpots too. Applies to religion as well as politics. An
atheist in your country is a nonconformist in mind, A
Christian is both crackpots. Jim laughed and took a sip
of his drink. Vovo yawned and said, how long are
(05:23):
we going to be in here? I don't know, Jim
said up to us, I suppose, yes, how about another drink,
I'll make it. How much of that coal of stuff
do you put in? Jim tolding, and while the other
was on his feet mixing the drinks, said you figure
on sticking to the same line this year? Have to?
Vovo said over his shoulder, what's the alternative? I don't know.
(05:47):
We're building up to a whale of a depression as
it is, even with half the economy running full blast
producing defense materials. Vovo chuckled, defense materials. I wonder if ever,
in the history of a human race anyone ever admitted
to producing offense materials. Well, you call it the same thing.
(06:08):
All your military equipment is for defense, and of course,
according to your press, all of ours is for offense.
Of course, Bobo said. He brought the glasses back and
handed one to the other. He slopped back into his
chair again, loosened two buttons of his trousers. Jim Bobo said,
why don't you divert more of your economy to public works,
(06:30):
better roads, reforestation, dams, that sort of thing. Jim said wearily,
you're a better economist than that. Didn't your boy Marx
or was it Ingles write a small book on the subject.
We're already overproducing, turning out more products than we can sell.
I wasn't talking about your government building new steel mills,
(06:52):
but dams, roads, that sort of thing. You could plow
billions into such items and get some real use out
of them. We both know that our weapons will never
be used. They can't be Jim ticked them off on
his fingers. We're already producing more farm products than we
know what to do with. If we build more dams,
(07:12):
it'll open up new farm lands and increase the glut.
If we build more and better roads, it'll improve transportation,
which will mean fewer men will be able to move
greater tonnage and throw transportation employees into the unemployed. If
we go all out on reforestation, it'll eventually bring down
the price of lumber, and the lumber people are howling
(07:34):
already now, he shook his head. There's just one really
fool proof way of disposing of surpluses and using up
labor power, and that's war, hot or cold. Vovo shrugged.
I suppose, so it amounts to building pyramids, of course,
(07:55):
Jim twisted his mouth sourly. And since we're asking questions
about each other's way alive, when is your state going
to begin to wither away? How was that? Vovo asked,
According to your sainted founder, once you people came to power,
the state was going to wither away. Class rule would
(08:16):
be over and utopia would be on hand. That was
a long time ago, and your state is stronger than ours,
Vovo snorted. How can we wither away the state as
long as we're threatened by capitalist aggression, Jim said, Havovo
went on, you know better than that, Jim. The only
(08:40):
way my organization can keep in power is by continually
beating the drums, keeping our people stirred up to greater
and greater sacrifices, by using you as a threat. Then
the old Romans have some sort of maxim to the
effect that when you're threatened with unease at home stir
(09:00):
up trouble abroad. You're being even more frank than usual,
Jim said, But that's one of the pleasures of these
get togethers. Neither of us resorts to hypocrisy. But you
can't keep up these tensions forever. You mean, we can't
keep up these tensions forever, Jim. And when they end, well, personally,
(09:24):
I can't see my organization going out without a bloodbath,
he grimaced sourly. And since I'd probably be one of
the first to be bathed, I'd like to postpone the time.
It's like having a tiger by the tail, Jim. We
can't let go happily. I don't feel in the same spot,
(09:45):
Jim said. He got up and went to the picture
window that took up one entire wall. It faced out
over a mountain vista. He looked soberly into the sky.
Vovo joined him, glass in hand. Possibly your position isn't
exactly the same as ours, but there'll be some awfully
(10:05):
great changes. If that military based economy of yours suddenly
had peace thrust upon it, you'd have a depression such
as you've never dreamed of. Let's face reality, Jim, neither
of us can afford peace. Well, we've both known that
for a long time. They both considered somberly, the planet
(10:29):
Earth blazing away, a small sun there in the sky.
Jim said, I sometimes think that the race would have
been better off when Man was colonizing Venus and Mars,
if it had been a joint enterprise, rather than you
people doing one and we doing the other. If it
(10:51):
had all been in the hands of that organization, the
United Nations. Vovo supplied. Then when bomb they hit, perhaps
these new worlds could have gone on to well better things. Perhaps,
Vovo shrugged. I've often wondered how bom Day started. Who
(11:12):
struck the spark? Happily there were enough colonists on both
planets to start the race all over again. Jim said,
what difference does it make who struck the spark? None?
I suppose Vovo began to button his collar, readjust his clothes. Well,
shall we emerge and let the quaking multitudes know that
(11:35):
once again we've made a shaky agreement, one that will
last until the next summit meeting. End of summit, my
mac Reynolds
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