ICP vs. Target Audience: Stop Pushing the Rock Uphill (with Jeff Hardison) | Ep. 207

On Scrappy ABM, host Mason Cosby sits down with Jeff Hardison, CRO at CaseMark, to cut through tool-first thinking and get back to the fundamentals: pick the ideal customer profile that buys, retains, and expands—then run ABM to get more of your best. Jeff draws a sharp line between ICP and a target audience (the hunch you’re “pushing up a hill”) and shows why alignment breaks when leadership confuses the two.

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They map old-school account-based playbooks to today’s stack, using intent, tasteful personalization by industry or growth stage, and PLG motions that convert free usage into organization-wide adoption—the classic “come over the top” expansion. From Calendly’s surprising webinar signal (“please self-promote the product more”) to building lists with AI agents and wiring product + checkout data to measure PLG ABM, this conversation stays grounded in experiments, feedback, and outcomes.

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If you’re testing a new segment, scaling a hybrid PLG + sales motion, or correcting an over-automated program, this is a practical blueprint to run scrappy without breaking the bank.

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👤 Guest Bio

Jeff Hardison is the CRO at CaseMark and previously served as VP of Product Marketing at Calendly. He’s also worked at Clear Bet and led programs that connect old-school account-based fundamentals with modern platforms, PLG activation, and expansion motions.

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📌 What We Cover

• The ICP vs. target audience distinction—and why confusing them derails ABM
• Using AI agents to scrape “top 10 / top 100” lists, pair domains, and enrich before outreach
• Old-school ABM tactics (direct mail, events, coordinated sales air cover) mapped to modern platforms
• Tasteful personalization: segment by industry or growth stage instead of risky person-level guesses
• Why PLG content can lean product-tutorial, while sales-led needs more category/problem education
• The hybrid PLG + sales content path: awareness → sign-up → self-pay → sales expansion → CS enablement
• Measuring PLG ABM: wiring product data and checkout to prove sign-up, activation, upgrade, and spread
• The Dropbox method: free “viral” adoption, then one org, one invoice, and IT alignment (SSO, SCIM)
• Running manual ABM to expose solvable problems (tracking, enrichment, MQA signals) before scaling tools
• User interviews that reveal unexpected edge use cases—and reshape ICP, content, and product priorities

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🔗 Resources Mentioned

• Calendly
• HubSpot
• CaseMark
• ZoomInfo
• Clay
• Apollo
• ChatGPT
• Manus (for building AI agents)
• Clear Bet
• Dropbox (“Dropbox method” reference)
• US Banker Magazine (example within trade publications)
• Scrappy ABM: Visit for more ABM tips and strategies.
• Connect with Mason Cosby for a conversation about ABM.

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If you enjoyed today’s episode and found valuable insights for your business, be sure to subscribe to the Scrappy ABM podcast for more expert discussions. Don’t forget to leave a review and share this episode with your team or fellow ma