December 25, 2024 • 55 mins
Welcome back, Spooky Squad, to another episode of Scream and Sugar, your true crime coffee hour. Today we unravel the chilling mystery of Pam Jackson and Sherri Miller, two teenage friends who vanished without a trace in South Dakota in 1971. The case baffled investigators for decades as the girls’ last known moments on a quiet road trip turned into an unsolved enigma.
What happened on that fateful day? With no evidence or leads, families were left searching for answers, while theories ranged from tragic accidents to foul play. Join us as we follow the decades-long investigation that finally uncovered the truth hidden in a creek bed, bringing closure to one of South Dakota’s most haunting mysteries. We’ll dive into the painstaking recovery of their car, how advanced forensic technology pieced together their story, and the emotional impact on their loved ones.
Grab your coffee and settle in for a heartbreaking journey into a case that underscores the power of persistence in uncovering the truth. We will be sipping on Main Vein Coffee Company, the cutest little shop in town! And remember, to stay spooky, and have a great holiday!
Resources:
http://mainveincoffee.com/
https://www.yankton.net/news/article_d14e280d-410e-5d69-a619-cc5f0d0f3bfc.htmlhttps://www.argusleader.com/story/news/2014/06/20/documents-missing-girls-case-released/11061399/https://books.google.com/books/about/Vanished_in_Vermillion.html?id=4QCmEAAAQBAJhttps://vanishedinvermillion.com/https://lasvegassun.com/news/2014/apr/17/teens-missing-1971-found-old-wrecked-car/
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/scream-and-sugar-true-crime-coffee-hour--6015946/support.
What happened on that fateful day? With no evidence or leads, families were left searching for answers, while theories ranged from tragic accidents to foul play. Join us as we follow the decades-long investigation that finally uncovered the truth hidden in a creek bed, bringing closure to one of South Dakota’s most haunting mysteries. We’ll dive into the painstaking recovery of their car, how advanced forensic technology pieced together their story, and the emotional impact on their loved ones.
Grab your coffee and settle in for a heartbreaking journey into a case that underscores the power of persistence in uncovering the truth. We will be sipping on Main Vein Coffee Company, the cutest little shop in town! And remember, to stay spooky, and have a great holiday!
Resources:
http://mainveincoffee.com/
https://www.yankton.net/news/article_d14e280d-410e-5d69-a619-cc5f0d0f3bfc.htmlhttps://www.argusleader.com/story/news/2014/06/20/documents-missing-girls-case-released/11061399/https://books.google.com/books/about/Vanished_in_Vermillion.html?id=4QCmEAAAQBAJhttps://vanishedinvermillion.com/https://lasvegassun.com/news/2014/apr/17/teens-missing-1971-found-old-wrecked-car/
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/scream-and-sugar-true-crime-coffee-hour--6015946/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome back, everyone to another episode of Scream and Sugar,
your true crime coffee Hour, the podcast where we dive
into darker side of history while enjoying a little something
sweet on the side. I am your host, Sahara, I'm Candace,
and today we're going to talk about the disappearance of
Pam Jackson and Cherry Miller.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Okayness, tip up the tongue, teepen the lips, Unique New York,
Unique own now brown cow.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Nasty water because our college everyone can just drinks tap water.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
It's just fucking tap water.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
The fucking your damn turtle, your turtle tap water drinking.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Turtle drinking ass bitch. I got from our fucking water
bottle filling stations here at the Lovely U n R.
And I used it actually in you're building the agriculture.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
That's the one you should never use.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
And it had the yellow.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Yeah, the filters are always bad, alter and they taste
like tap water.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
That's what it fucking is. Then it's their fault, not mine.
I'm just trying to hydrate my life right now. And
because you forgot.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Your water bottle, I forgot my water today.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Beggars can't be choosers.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
My mouth is dry, my lips are dry.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Fill it with the other water real quick.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
That's okay, We're going to get through this all right. Everybody,
welcome back in. It's so nice to hang with you again.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Today I wanted to cover a little cute coffee shop
that I found next to Beloved Bakery because Bakery was
closed on my ass. Oh, it's actually so cute. It's
called main Vein Coffee Company and it is in the
what's that called the public market?
Speaker 2 (02:24):
In a public market?
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Yeah on plum about a cute bot, a cute, very
witchy vibes. So I think there used to be a
food truck if I remember correctly. I think we I've
had their coffee before at punk correct flea nice if
I remember right. But they have like a little tiny
booth in there. It's super super cute. I don't know
(02:47):
if you've seen their logo.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
But it is very precious. And I remember talking about
wanting to go in there at one point and we
got something else, yes.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Yes, yes, yes, So I did end up going there
and everything was delicious. I did not get a waffle,
but they do have things called bubble waffles there.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
I'm not sure what that is like a waffle.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
I'm not sure. It just says bubble waffle. It sounds amazing.
I should have probably eaten.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
It, but waffles heavy.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
You know me, Mammy, I would just be getting the
most basic.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
So I got an Americano I did.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
I didn't get, but I was with William and he
got an iced Italian soda.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Ooh, Italian sodas a bomb.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Yeah, it was really good. It was like strawberry vanilla
or raspberry vanilla, and it was like top notch. But
they have like so many cute, like witchy drinks. So
they have one called catharsis transcend Hypnosis.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Well clips his white chocolate and lavender, which I thought
you would appreciate.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Yes, those are my flavors.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
So and then Catharus is like French toast. And then
they have like extra special ones that are like specials
on the board, so not just shnaggy stuff.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Check it out.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Yeah, super cute, super good. In the Breeza was so sweet.
So yeah, give that a little checkout if you are
in the area, if you're dying for a caffeine like I.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Was, dude, and if you're not in a caffeine vibe,
if that meat a lot of stand is still there.
It's just so freaking good. If you're in a oh.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
My god, there's no meat, a lot of stand in there.
If there's a lot of stand.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
There should be still there because that's a little corner.
Fucking If you walk past Mainvein on the left hand side,
there's like a little cabana thing that is literally just
then maybe they moved out meats a lot of stand.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
God, damn, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Damn, it's so good because.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
I was trying to think on the left right past
Main Vein, was there's a little place to take pictures.
Oh yeah, it was if they put up some balloons
for like a backdrop or something.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
I haven't been there in a couple of months, so.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
A lot of place I feel like we should go
just double check, you know, just to be safe.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
You like, if it's there's the Haara met a lot
of If.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
It's there, I will buy so many a lot of
a really my favorite things.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
It was really good, like the one so bad choose
your own beer and then they had their own like
jamoy and like the taen stuff that they put on it,
like that makes it so.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
I know, I'm like truly, just thinking about it can cut.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Anyway.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Well wait, yes, break my heart. We know things here,
we know things big brains today, big brains. I am
pretty tired. Okay, this is pretty tired. So I'm just
going to hop on right, and I don't know how
long this one's going to be. Hopefully it's not crazy.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Okay, Okay, what that sounds your energemon coming out.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
I don't want to do this episode, but so I
think I'll just give you, like start off by giving
you a little top line. So, in May of nineteen
seventy one, Pam Jackson and Sherry Miller were too high
school girls seventeen years old. They were driving to a
party like a keg party in a Studi Baker Lark
(06:10):
when they seemingly disappeared just off the face of the earth.
Police back then didn't do enough to try to find them.
Investigators thirty years later did way too much. Two families
and theired decades of pain as they await answers of
what happened to their children. And then a third family
is pulled into the mystery, and the nightmare just gets worse.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
What done, dune, dum done dun, don't get sued by.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Did I tell you I bought a T shirt with them?
I don't know what came over me. I bought a
T shirt with Elliott Stabler and Olivia Benson on it,
and it's just her going like this, and then Elliot
Stabler going behind her and were like kind of gram
and he was going and I don't know.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
What came over me when I bought it, but like,
this sick shirt needs to be mine.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
It's like I have to have this. And then I
bought it and I was like it will be mine?
Is I get to wear this? Is like nobody's going
to know who these people are. Yes, it looks bonkers.
I love it so much.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
That's amazing. Picture. Yeah, your picture of you wearing it
doing the same the same pose, the same pose.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
What's her name?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Mariska Mariska.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
I don't know the actress. I know she's like a
fantastic actress. I don't know about it. She's just Olivia
Benson to me.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Her mother was a very beautiful and famous actress as well.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Really, yes, Mariska Haggartyargate Arkite Haggarty, Jesus Christ Mariska Hargeta.
And now I need to know mom. Jane Mansfield is her.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Mother, John Mansfield bombacious if you've ever seen that, there's
the picture that flies around with the bombshell blonde and
she's got like a burnette checking out her boobies. That's yes,
Jane Mansfield. Oh, a very very famous photo. Yeah, I
know that is Mariska's mama.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
They do kind of have somewhat similar features, doesn't it.
Huh wow, Well, the more you know, I'm all right,
you're right, am I right?
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Right, well, yes, so I guess I digress Back to
the case. High school junior Sharry Miller wakes up and
works a housekeeping shift at the hospital in a place
called Vermillion, South Dakota. You can imagine this is a
pretty teeny tiny town in South Dakota. The day is
May twenty ninth, nineteen seventy one, and she is actually
(08:57):
really excited because she and her friend Pam Jackson, normally
very responsible and quiet girls, have decided they're going to
go to a rural keg party that is being held
in a gravel pit in the nearby woods, as.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
You do when you're teenagers.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Absolutely, around six pm, Sherry calls Pam and asks to
pick her up to go driving around eight and she's
going to be in her grandpa's nineteen sixty nineteen sixty
Studebaker Lark type, Yes, this is important because this car, like,
we'll get into it, he'd shout it. As she picks
(09:36):
Pam up and they start driving. They start heading out
driving Before they head to the Keg party, they actually
stop and visit Sherry's grandmother, Pearl, who is dying of
cancer sadly, at the hospital, and they're there from nine
to nine thirty pm, which I was like, that's crazy time.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
That's not that's past visiting, you think. But she works,
she works close fathers like, hey, let me.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
And I guess Cherry was feeling super worried about her grandmak.
She just was not doing well. And this is all
I confirmed that they were there. They started driving to
the party after this, and other kids later on told
investigators that the girls had stopped and tried to get
them to go with them out to this party and
(10:17):
they didn't end up going. Another girl also heading to
the same party, her name was Mary Kay Larson, sees
Sherry's car make a wrong turn in these kind of
in the gravel Pay area on the way to the
party at about ten o'clock. Fifteen minutes later, the girls
are lost. They're driving around. They're trying to figure out
where the fuck they're going. It's dark out, and they
(10:39):
run into some boys in another car that are also
heading to this party. Okay, so the boys say, well,
why don't you guys just follow us and we'll take
you there. So they're driving and driving. At about a
couple miles down the road, the boys look up and
they're reary mirror and they notice the girls are gone,
so they're no longer following stop following them. They thought, well,
(11:00):
because these girls weren't normally like wants to go out
to the keg party, they thought, well, but they probably
changed their minds and decided to go home, So the
boys just continue on. They get to the party. At
the party all night, that's the last time I see them. Yeah, okay,
I was wondering if they got lost, maybe they were
out of cast. Maybe, well you think.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
So, But they were going the wrong way and the
guys were like like they got nervous or something and stopped.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Well, my understanding was the boys really knew the area. Okay,
so I think they were just like they really know
the girls, okay, No, not really. So the next morning, Sunday,
May thirtieth, Pam's mother realizes that Pam just never came
home and she calls Sherry's grandpa, Nick Jensen. She finds
out Sherry also never made it home, neither did the
studi bigger. So Sherry's grandpa, Nick Jensen, finds out that
(11:51):
Cherry has also now missed her shift at the hospital,
which she.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Never would have bet normal, okay.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
So the adults here are all like, something's fucking wrong.
Something happened. Sherry would never miss a shift, and Pam
was always like she always came home or at least
contacted her family to let them know she was okay.
So the parents call the Clay County sheriff Sheriff's department,
and they talked to the sheriff, Arnie Nelson, and they're like, hey,
we want to report our girls missing. Something's going on,
(12:16):
and Arnie tells them that surprise, the girls run away.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
And they can be home soon, right, you need to
wait for seventy two hours or some bullshit like that.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Yeah. Well, and it's it's crazy like how this ends
up changing, because we'll get into it in a bit here,
but I feel like the police didn't drop the yep,
they dropped the ball. They didn't give a fuck. So
(12:57):
not to be deterred by their shitty county police, Pam's
parents start taking to the news outlets, so they get
their story published in the Vermilion Plane Talk first, and
then it's picked up by other news outlets a couple
of days later. So these articles, of course are mentioning
things like what the girls were wearing, the car, and
their belongings. But for decades this case remained unsolved, and
(13:20):
we are going to go into why that is, okay,
after I have some water.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Water, delicious tap water from the agriculture building, when.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
You're dying, when you're dying, anything we're gonna take.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
So this case that I'm covering right now obviously is
gonna talk about Pam Jackson and Cherry Miller. But I'm
also gonna talk a little bit about this book that
I read that kind of goes into this case. It's
called Vanished in Vermilion, The Real Story of South Dakota's
most infamous cold case. It's by a man named lou Ragoose.
I don't think that's his real name. It's r A.
(14:00):
G Us.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
That's not a real name. I don't know that name.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
It's probably like Regaze or something like a super fancy.
Ragos is an award winning journalist. He's based out of Minnesota,
and he focuses mostly on crime cases and like court
cases and things. So when he wrote the story, he
actually spent a ton of time getting some details, baby
from details. So I will link this for you if
(14:27):
it's something that you're interested in reading up on on
your own. He has his own website called Vanished inmfromillion
dot com and on that site you can find like
a ton of crime scene photos. So if that's your gama, LAMB, give.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
It a look. See check it out.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
So back to our case, Ernie Nelson are fun. Sheriff
Man then issues a warrant for the girls as retinoways
so that if other authorities find them, they legally can
bring the girls home.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
I was like, yeah, I know, I said the same thing.
I was like, what the fun But kind of, like
I said, the police at this point, we're not taking
any of this seriously. No, So they assume these girls
were runaways. It really wasn't that important to them to
really go look for them. When the parents kept coming
back and saying that our kids wouldn't do this, they
were like, well they did, so they did though. Yeah
(15:20):
there was this, say, there was this rumor that they
had run off to a hippie commune in Canada. Yeah,
like just like weird shit like that wild. But the
family was like, this is not happening. Pam. When Sherry
called her, was actually working on address for some school
dance and she had been like working on it diligently, so.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
She had something to look forward to, and she was
spending a lot of time and effort in something she
wouldn't just she.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Wouldn't just up and leave.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Yeah, she didn't have her medications either. I think she
had like an inhaler or something and didn't have that. Like,
so her family was like, something's wrong, sadly. Grandma Pearl
ends up dying January uh Saturday, June twelfth, only fourteen
days after Sherry goes missing. Oh my god, and her
parents were like, if she really did run away, she
would come back. She would come back, because so they
(16:10):
posted up an obituary of her grandmother to try to
get her home.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Well, I would say too, if Grandma Pearl was dying
of cancer, and Cherry was very into and very close
with her grandmother. She wouldn't have left her while she
was on her deathbed, essentially.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
One hundred percent. No, yeah, yeah, It's just crazy to
me that these police were, like, no, run away.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
He ran away to join a hippie commune in Canada.
In Canada, Yes, those damn Canadians that.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Damn care Knightley so hot. I just love it so
much because I'm like, clear with your mom's a looking.
So meanwhile, County police are doing their quote unquote best
to investigate while still believing, of course girls ran off.
So nineteen seventies for you. A dispatcher taking tips on
the girls actually ends up writing a report at this
(16:56):
time from a caller who I d'd himself as Victor Hansen,
and Victor said that he shared a party line with
the Jackson family. So if you don't know what that is,
back in the day, people would all share the same
phone line, and I'm assuming it was just really cheap
to do it that way, but basically you could pick
up your house phone and you could hear other people
(17:17):
having conversations if they were using that line at that time.
So this person Victor Hansen, that I don't believe they
ever figured out who he was later on, which is
kind of weird, but he says he overheard Pam talking
about a boy named David and how David had slammed
her hand in a car door and had she had
said to him, Hey, well that wasn't very nice, and
(17:39):
he sort of like laughed it off and then said,
I wish I could photograph you. Oo. Yeah, And Victor
says that he believed this David kid was a student
at the University of South Dakota, so he thought he
was a college student. So the tip was filed away,
but remember it because it does open up a whole
another can of worms later on. So the parents are
(18:00):
are still getting this feeling that the police aren't taking
any of this seriously, and they keep trying to find
different ways to get people to help them find their girls.
They actually send a letter to the Attorney General and
in this letter they detail all the reasons why their
girls wouldn't run away. The Attorney General then sends the
case to the Division of Criminal Investigation at the state
(18:23):
who sends an investigator, Agent Patterson, to Vermilion to look
into the case in August of nineteen seventy one.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Okay, so that's two months later after their disappearance.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Okay, yeah, so two and a half months later, they
finally get somebody who's hopefully going to do something about this.
So Patterson gets there and he finds no leads at first,
but he receives a photograph from some people attending a
Luther Leech convention concert. I don't know if you've ever
heard of this, but apparently thousands of teens attended this concert.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
I have no idea who that is.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Neither. I hadn't never heard of it in my life.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
I'm not that old Toyarah.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Damn. I guess if you know who that is, then
you're a bitch accring to canvas here. But yes, thousands
of teens attended this fancy concert. And in their background
of this photo there is someone who looks a little
like Pam. So she is brushing her hair. It looks
like out of her face, so her hand is covering
(19:22):
part of her face, and it's like from the side,
and she's wearing glasses, but she's covered up mostly by
somebody standing in front of her.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Okay, so it's not a very reliable.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
No sour, not at all.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
And also why would they run away to go to
a concert?
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Yeah, and for months and months unless they're like following
them I guess, yeah, that's true the Deadheads back in
the day.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
But basically Patterson decides that this is probably Pam and
he closes the case. Yes, bastard, and I'm like, okay, well,
if that's Pam, we're sherry, like the hell. So at
this point, Sheriff Arnie Nelson is pissed off at the
family because they feel he feels like they went over
(20:11):
his head to get the state involved, and he was
uncooperative with the Patterson investigator, Agent Patterson, and he resists
Agent Patterson's input, so he kind of shuts down the
investigation on his end as well. Isn't that fucked up?
Speaker 2 (20:26):
What a piece of ship?
Speaker 1 (20:27):
I know. So the case goes cold, decades go by,
no leads, nada. This family's just both these families are
just like what the fuck?
Speaker 2 (20:38):
No remains, no side of the car, no.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Nothing, nothingsane. Occasionally my understanding is people would I would
say like, oh I think I saw her and such
and such, Yeah, exactly, yeah, but no real things happen leads,
No real leads were found, So a local news reporter
publishes a twenty year anniversary story about the girl's disappearance.
(21:03):
And he's the first person to interview three of the
classmates who saw the girls when they were out driving.
So before this, nobody had interviewed these kids. What the
it's that wild? So he gets information from the girl
who' saw him going down the wrong road and the
boys who met them on the way there. And when
he puts this out, he puts out a second publication
after that, and this renews curiosity throughout the region. It
(21:26):
also renews curiosity within the newly elected county police force. Okay,
so the old guys now have retired. There's a whole
new set of police force members in here. Kind of
any better, but we can't find it out girl. So
one of the newer officers, his name was Ray Hoffman,
teams up with the University of South Dakota and from
nineteen ninety one to nineteen ninety seven they tried to
(21:48):
determine if the girls even ended up at the gravel
pits that they were trying to get to and maybe
accidentally drove through the pits and into the creek that
is next.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
To christ It's just a creek, not a river, not
a I know.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Are you also thinking of Kylie Radney? Yep, I thought
about her too, So yeah, he wanted to know if
the girls maybe had ended up with the gravel pits
and drove through them into the Brule Creek, real Creek,
Rule Creek. So while investigating the area for all six
(22:20):
of those years, they found nothing at all in regards
to physical evidence, but they do realize that the gravel
pit location is awfully close to a nearby farm. On
this farm resides a man named David Lichen. So we
(22:41):
actually don't much.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Like David like, and I don't be liking David liking
at all.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
We don't like David liking. It's more like David Hayden.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Disliking David disliking.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
So David Lichen was in the same class as a
high school junior with Pam and Cherry, so they were
on the same.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Bus to school each other, so they.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Didn't know each other. David like it is not a
good dude. Okay, I want to make this clear as
a bell. They dislike him, Okay, we David dislike it. Okay.
In nineteen ninety two, he was sentenced to two hundred
and twenty five years in prison for the kidnapping, first
degree rape, and first degree burglary of an ex girlfriend.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
This was one hundred and twenty five years, two hundred
twenty five, two hundred and twenty five years.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
And it was because an additional five ex partners who
showed up to testify against him at the same.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Time, so it was twenty five years.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
He was an habitual offender.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Wow, Okay, yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
So not a very good guy. I'm just going to
go over the case a little bit between him and
the victim that finally got him put behind bars. So
her name, we're gonna call her d h because that's
what she's labeled as in the in the court case notes.
But she says that she was a vulnerable, struggling and
(24:04):
lonely student at the university and she had recently applied
for divorce from her husband after many many years. She
met David in a computer class and they hit it off,
and he had acted very kind and compassionate and comforting
to her, and he showered her with attention, like so
much attention, and they dated intimately for four months. Okay,
(24:28):
Apparently as her divorce trial came closer, so the date
of her divorce trial came closer, she started focusing on
it more and more and giving less attention to David,
which he did not like. He became incredibly possessive, controlling,
and his behavior was just super abnormal. He was obsessed
(24:50):
with her court case, and when she got the decree
saying that she was divorced, like, he was really upse
by it. And I'm not really sure why she was
like going after custody for her kids, and he was pissed.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
Off because he wanted attention to all be on him,
and if she got her kids, then obviously she wouldn't
have one hundred percent of her time to dedicate to.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Him, yeah, which is crazy.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
So he starts acting like just fucking nuts, and so
she tries to dump him and she's like, Okay, I'm
done with you. Like, and she's, from what I've gathered
at least by these notes, like she was really just
a very nice person. She was not confrontational. She was
trying really hard to get her life together, and so
she kept saying like, listen, I don't want to be
with you romantically anymore. I just want to be friends,
(25:40):
and he would say like, okay, I understand, but then
he would not behave like he understood, So he would
show up at her house at all hours of the day,
calling her constantly. If she went to somebody else's house,
he would show up at their house and he would
cry and yell at her and tell her he was
(26:00):
like going to commit suicide and all these things to
try to keep her under his control. Finally, one day
in July of nineteen ninety, she woke up at one
am to see David at the end of her bed.
Oh fuck me, And he said, Dottie, why don't you
love me? And she said, you need to get out
(26:23):
of here, and he and I'm going to put in
a trigger warning hair, so bing gone go. He said
he wanted to make love to her one more time
before he died, and then he physically assaulted her as
(26:43):
she tried to push him away, and he slammed her
heart into the bed multiple times and started pulling off
her clothes. He also began to strangle her Jesus her
kids were in the apartment, so that scared her a lot,
and he had shut and locked her door behind him
when he came in, and she started asking him, you know,
to stop doing what he was doing and telling him
(27:06):
that she didn't want to do this, and he said,
and it really, she said, was like a very frightening
tone that didn't sound like his normal voice. He said,
don't piss me off. Oh no, and then he forced
her to look at him while he raped her multiple
times during which he would talk to her. So he
said that before she called the police, she should give
(27:27):
him a few minutes to escape so he could kill
himself before the police got there.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Good lord.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
At one point he was unable to perform, and he said,
I can't even do it. I can't do anything right.
I can't even leave a good DNA sample for the police. Oh,
I know, what the fuck?
Speaker 2 (27:43):
What a bastard.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
So this poor woman, she finally after he leaves, she
gets up, she locks the doors, she lays in her bed,
and she finally calls her friend, who calls their pastor,
and the pastor and the friend take her to the
police department to do a kit and like get a
report filed and everything. So get this. Detective Hoffman was
(28:08):
the reporting policeman, so he saw the injuries that were
on this woman. Which is probably why he thought of
David when he was digging through those gravel pits so
close to his house.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Right, He's like, this guy is already a violent man
and obviously sick and twisted in the head and violent
towards women especially, So yeah, and multiple partners coming forward,
six women all together, You're saying that came forward. Who
(28:40):
knows how many other women didn't.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Come forward, And he read he heard all their testimonies.
One of them even wrote like this essay about like
how it affected her life, Like he saw what kind
of guy this guy was. So yeah, he went to
prison two hundred twenty five years, which is honestly unheard
of and wonderful to see.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Right.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
So, Huffman says, I think that this David fellow has
something to do with this, and he tries to tie
it back to him, but he doesn't have any evidence
at all showing that David's involved. So in May of
two thousand and four, so long long time from nineteen
seventy one, no real leads or evidence, the South Dakota
Attorney General's Office creates a cold case program of which
(29:22):
Pam Jackson, the Pam Jackson and Sherry Miller's case is
one of the first two cases that they work on.
The lead detective is Agent Mike Brayley, and he's already
got David Liken on his mind as a suspect. So
word of David's actions had gotten around this small town,
so everybody was kind of talking, and his family even
(29:43):
was kind of like people were a little like they
felt bad for his mom, but they were also kind
of like stand offish towards his family. And the retired
Officer Hoffman from earlier, he's now retired. He wasn't before
he is now. So this is third generation police basically,
is where we're at.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
So there was the first detective that didn't give a shit,
there's the second detective that's trying to get back into
the case, and now there's a third detective on the case.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Is that what you're saying, Yeah, exactly. So we have
the first set of detectives, which was Sheriff Nelson who
did not give a fuck. There's the second set, which
was Officer Hoffman who worked with the university to try
to prove that they were out in those glravel pits.
And then Officer Hoffman also he's retired now, but he
was also there as part of David Liken's case, so
(30:29):
he had him as a suspect on the brain. And
then now Officer Hoffman, who's retired, is working a little
bit with Agent Brayley to try to get him up
to speed on where the case was the last time
he worked on it. And now it's May of two
thousand and four.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
So Hoffman does tell them about David's crimes and he
links them up with the women who came forward to
testify against David. So the team starts by interviewing all
of those women over again, and they start taking a
little bit of a closer look at the like in farm.
So his family lived on a large farm with lots
(31:08):
of property and lots of space, multiple houses. David is
still in prison, obviously, but his mother and his brother
are still living at the farm. He also had a
sister that Hoffmann tells Agent Brayley that he believed was
sexually assaulted by her brother David. So his sister, I'm
(31:28):
gonna call her Nancy, she's also called sometimes. I want
to protect her identity. I think this is the fake identity,
but I also saw that the other one was the
fake identity. So honestly, I have no idea, so I'm
gonna call her Nancy. So at first, Nancy says that
the two girls, Sherry and Pam, had never been to
(31:49):
their farm and that David had probably nothing to do
with it. She didn't think they ever interacted. And then
as she's talking to Agent Brayley, she starts feeling really
anxious and like she's having a hard time breathing, and
she almost has like a panic attack. Okay, and she's like,
I don't know why I'm feeling this way. I don't
know what's going on. So they end the interview a
(32:12):
little early, and they promised to meet back up with
her later to finish it later on. So the following month,
Nancy again talks to the investigators, but she is starting
to remember things that she had previously forgotten, like suppressed
it maybe or she thinks these are suppressed memories. I
(32:32):
will point out that she's no longer in contact with
her family at this point. Like repressed or suppressed, repressed, suppressed, oppressed.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Depressed, depressed, God damn it, dude, suppressed suppression, Okay.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Suppressed memories are memories that are deliberately pushed out of
conscious awareness because they're not because they are associated was
the traumatic. Yeah, However, repressed are memories that are unconsciously blocked. Okay, repressed, repressed, Okay,
both these oppressed memories. The following month that Nancy toks
(33:21):
the investigators again, saying that she started to remember new things,
new memories.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
That's interesting.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Yeah, like they were repressed, like.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
She had been repressing them all along.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Perhaps. Nancy says that she knows that her brothers were
both involved, not just David. She thinks both brothers are involved,
both them. For instance, she started to remember seeing large
pits being dug on the farm around nineteen seventy one.
She was she would have been a teenager at this point,
by the way, so it's like fifteen.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
She says.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
In nineteen seventy one, they were starting to dig all
over the farm, her family was.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
All over.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
And she also remembers seeing lots of large fires because
they would have burning pits where they would put sick
animals that had been put down. They would burn them
out and these burning pits, trash would be burned here.
That's where they would dispose of their trash and things.
And she says they would have all these big fires
going on on the farm. As she continued to meet
with them, she started saying even weirder things. She said
(34:29):
that her parents they would always cover up for her
brothers when her brothers would do bad things, and that
David had definitely had something to do with these girls
disappearance the fuck allegedly. At this point, I will point
out Agent Brayley hadn't told her that he was looking
into the girl's disappearance, Okay, He just told her he
was interviewing her her brother.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
So she didn't know that he was looking into Sherry
and Pam's cold case that have been closed.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Basically exactly. He didn't tell me, so she just pressed
on her own, so this made him believe that he
was on the right track.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Soon she called and told Brayley that her brother was
very capable of violence and killing and that her family
would have covered it up for him. She mentioned that
she had five locks on her door when she lived
with with David, and that he loved guns and liked
having guns around and he would point them at her
(35:26):
if he wanted her to do something. She mentioned like,
if he wanted you to do something, he would pull
out a gun. He would point it at you until
you did it.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
She also mentioned that her brother would sometimes have her
drive the family car so that he could go after
or get on top of a girl from school when
the I know. When the investigator asked her to elaborate
a little bit, she said he would fondle them in
the backseat, and I'm like, hopefully consensually. I don't know.
(35:57):
It didn't sound like it sound like yeah. So this
was enough for the investigators to start interrogating David Liking
in the South Dakota State Penitentiary about Pam and Cherry's disappearance.
(36:23):
So they go in and they start asking David like, Hey,
do you know these girls? And he said, oh, I
know who they are. You know, casually, I remember them disappearing,
but I don't really know anything more than that. We
were never friends. We never really hung out. David mentions
that his brother Merle, said that he had gone up
to New York City in the nineteen eighties and spoken
to Pam Jackson. Merle told David that Pam recognized him
(36:47):
and talked to him, and that she still had her
dark hair and glasses, and that Merle thought she was
working as a sex worker. Okay, kind of convenient in
my opinion, right, So the police don't believe him, like
at all, and they start interrogating him further, and at
this point, David realizes that they're there because they think
he did it, and he says, no, no, that couldn't
(37:08):
have been me. Back then, I was only one hundred
and ten pounds. I was just a little guy. I
couldn't have done it. It wasn't me. And the police
are like.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
All right, I couldn't have done what? All right?
Speaker 1 (37:17):
Yeah, exactly right. So they start snooping around the farm.
Their first rate on the farm occurs on Tuesday, August
twenty fourth, and they start by focusing on the areas
that Nancy said were being dug up around that time.
They actually brought her a map and she like pointed
him out. So dozens of agents come to this farm
and they start digging. They are a diggin. David's brother,
Kerwin and his eighty four year old mother Esther still
(37:40):
live on the property in separate houses, so they're also interrogated.
Kerwin even takes a polygraph, which he fails on the spot.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
Not liable anyway, but okay.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
Good point, can't. So they dig up the areas where
the families used to burn and bury their trash, and
they take a lot of items from there. However, there
is still nothing that implicates his family and the disappearance
of the girls. Okay, so this search was clear to everybody,
like everybody in the town could see this happening, and
(38:17):
they started to whisper even more, like, oh, this family,
the evil family. Exactly.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
They already know that David's a piece of a piece
of trash.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
So one of the nineteen seventy one secretaries from the
Clay County Sheriff's Department calls and tells the investigators that
she remembers Union County Sheriff Ed Ekren going to the
like and farm and interviewing David, his father, his brothers
and saying that they were very nervous and that they
were hiding something. She said that Ekron even came back
convinced that they had done something, but he knew he
(38:48):
couldn't prove it, and he was afraid of them. None
of this was in the notes, none of it, motherfucker. Like,
as far as the investigators could tell, ed Ekren wasn't
even a part of this investigation. So they were like why, Like,
what is going on here is like some sort of
weird town conspiracy. So, after finding nothing on the farm,
they spoke with Nancy's doctor. Her psychiatrist told the investigators
(39:11):
that the trauma of her past was keeping her memories
hidden and that hypnosis might be able to uncover the truth.
Oh yes, speech nineteen.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
Laurens Everything polygraph fucking.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Hypnosis, County Police, County County.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
So Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
During her videotaped hypnotherapy session with doctor Fred mag Navido,
I know fancy name, Nancy finally dropped a huge bomb.
She said that she was in the machine shed in
nineteen seventy one and she saw Sherry and Pam in
the Studebaker Lark with her brothers. She said that Sherry
(39:52):
was lying over the steering wheel and Pam had her
head on the passenger window. She went on to say
that she heard something like a gunshot and when she
went to run, she ran into David and he started
to choke her until she became unconscious. She recalled hearing
her brother say something like we got to take care
of this over the next few days, and started suddenly
seeing a wheelbarrow covered with a tarp on the property.
(40:15):
After that, she ended up, of course, getting curious, going
over and looking under the tarp, where she saw the
bodies of Sherry and Pam, which she believed were then
fed to their animals. Yes, pigs, cows cows and.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Pigs cows cows don't eat meat.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
I don't know, that's what she said. She said the
cows food was looking a little bit different than it
used to. She used the meat grinders.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Leave the cows alone.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
I know the car she believed was buried on the farm, And.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
Interesting that they buried it and didn't try to like
burn it right.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
Well, I guess the idea was that that's why they
were digging those big gas pits.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
Push a whole loss car. How deep you have to
dig to fucking bear?
Speaker 1 (41:11):
Who last car? No?
Speaker 2 (41:12):
What do you do with the display soil? That's a lot.
I mean they're on a farm. I'm sure they could
figure it out that well.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
And it's interesting to say that because one of the
investigators from nineteen seventy one said that there were certain
parts of the farm where if a coward to walk
out there, it would sink up to its knees.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
It's great dirt, a great feature to have on your
farm if you got it was.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
Like recently disturbed. But the family said, well, yeah, it
would have been because we were installing a septic tank,
a sewer ditch, a burn pit, and a silo all
around that timeframe. Okay, so they were like, yeah, we
were digging out there. So with these new details, the
investigators obtained a new warrant. They searched the farm for
a second time.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
I would have fucking looked in to see if they
had a fucking receipt for the fucking silo, for the
fucking septic tank, for the and whatever the fuck else like.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
So they did build them, but according to Nancy, they preferred, well,
they preferred to do all the work themselves. So they
were out there building everything themselves. A septic tank, like
they bought the subject tanks, like they have their seats
for that, but they put it out in the yard themselves,
like instead of hiring people to come to it. That's fair, man,
(42:23):
if you're watching any money, and you can makes sense. So, yes,
they searched the farm a second time. But now they're
looking for the student of Baker, and they're looking for
a wheelbear, and they're looking for a feed grinder and
They're like, it's got to be out here somewhere, right,
she saw I get buried unless they like unburied it
and moved it. Later on and they find jackshit on
(42:46):
the farm property nada. The investigators decide to try and
trick David into confessing because they're like, Hey, how the
fuck else are we going to do this?
Speaker 2 (42:54):
You're in fucking prison for life anyway, So.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
They attach a listening device to an inmate named Aloysius
black Crow, who told prison staff that David had told
him about disposing of the girl's bodies. So black Crow
brings back four tapes of him talking with David, where
David is confessing to raping and killing the girls. He's
(43:17):
also reminiscing and laughing and implicates his brother Kerwin in
the tapes as well. So in the tapes he says
that he kept trophies from the girls hair, specifically that
was kept in a book in the house. So they
investigators think, we've got him. We've got him, So they
complete a third search of the farm, but this time
(43:38):
they include the house. They find some very interesting things,
including pornography and photographs that appear to be of a
deceased woman and hair tucked into.
Speaker 2 (43:47):
A bible and to the bible. Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
They bring in Kerwin and his lawyer and they play
the recordings for him, and Kerwin says, point blank, that's
not my brother's voice that you have recorded here. So
they're like, okay, buddy, mm sure thing. So the lawyer says, well,
let's get copies of the tapes. We'll have them reviewed,
and we'll have your brother's lawyer take a look at them.
(44:12):
In the meantime, investigators are looking at their evidence and
they can't prove that the hair in the bible came
from Pam or Sherry, and they can't prove that the
photograph has anyone who's deceased in it at all. But regardless,
the grand jury indicts David for the murder of the girls,
(44:32):
premeditated murder, felony murder, and murder.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
One based on the tapes. Okay, so they're admissible in
a court of law.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
Yeah, based on the tapes. So after hearing the tapes,
David's legal team are like, dude, that's not you. You're
not on these tapes, and he's like, that's not me.
And so they don't tell the prosecution that that's not
David on the tapes.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
What the fucks someone was So.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
They go around to try to figure out what the
fuck is going on, and they discovered that black Crow
had used a friend named Billy Youtzi to pretend to
be David so he'd get time off his sentence in
items from the prison guarden.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
What a butt, And.
Speaker 1 (45:10):
He had done this with another inmate as well.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
Well then how would he be reliable?
Speaker 1 (45:14):
Well, they so it happens afterwards. Yeah, he got caught
after he had already started this process. I know, noth insane.
So David's legal team was able to get the tapes
removed and thus the prosecution had no evidence, and the
Attorney General drops the murder charges against David in two
thousand and eight, once again this poor families are left
(45:34):
no answer for what happened to their girls. The case
goes cold. Now fucking get this, This is gonna blow
your mind because a blue mine. September of twenty thirteen,
Pam's father, Oscar Jackson passes away and as people are
getting prepared for his funeral, a local man named Jim
Sorenson leaves his house, let's meet and closing the door.
(45:56):
So he had just read a newspaper article about a
similar case in Oklahoma that turned up two cars with
three bodies in a nearby lake. He remembered that in
nineteen seventy one, they had just built a new bridge
over the Brulay Creek leading into the area where the
girls went missing. The water that season was really high,
(46:16):
and here in September of twenty thirteen, it was barely
a trickle. It was low, very very low water. So
he drove up to the bridge and simply looked over
the edge, and he saw what appeared to be the
bumper of a nineteen sixty Studa Baker Lark. Fuck up, yep,
guess what, bitch.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
They just drove off the road.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
They just drove off the road. So investigators pulled up
the car, and they found the skeletal remains of Pam
and Sherry, alongside some of their items in Sherry's purse,
with her driver's license, notes from classmates, and photographs.
Speaker 2 (46:51):
Still don't they fucking.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
Find this earlier? It was in the car was still
in third gear, the headlights were on, and the keys
were still in the ignition.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
Holy shit.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
There was also damage to one tire, which could be
just from forty years of being in the water.
Speaker 2 (47:12):
Or it could have caused them to go off drive
off the road.
Speaker 1 (47:15):
They could have gone out.
Speaker 2 (47:17):
Oh I'm so sad that her dad didn't get to,
i know, finally get some closure of what happened to
his baby girl and know that it wasn't something so heinous.
Speaker 1 (47:28):
Nefarious, Yeah, nefarious.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
Yeah, that she didn't she.
Speaker 1 (47:31):
Didn't suffer necessarily, right, So Yeah, the conclusion was that
it was likely an accident, since that season was exceptionally
wet and the bridge was new for forty two years.
It had just rusted off the road near a bridge
half a mile from the girl's destination. Half a mile.
Speaker 2 (47:49):
How flipped did they not? Okay, I'm sorry someone I
just didn't understand.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
Yeah, I and normally, I guess because when people were
out looking, the water was always higher, because it always
they were always out looking when it just happened to
be spring.
Speaker 2 (48:05):
Wouldn't you see some sort of like tire tracks leading
off the road into the creek.
Speaker 1 (48:10):
Well, and that's the thing is, they said, we had
always focused on the gravel pits half a mile up,
so they have searched all the gravel pits. They had
never even considered looking back by this bridge. One of
the sheriff's department members who was around in nineteen seventy
three said, well, we'd occasionally go back and research the
area of the gravel pits and hope we'd find just
in hopes we'd find the car. But I can honestly
(48:31):
say I never looked over that bridge. Never. I just
like couldn't believe it. Meanwhile, Kerwin and Esther were a
town prize. They lost a fuck ton of money. His
mother ended up, Esther ended up with a ton of
health issues because of this, and they attempted to sue
the cold case investigators, but the state said, nah, yeah
(48:52):
it was I mean, they had reason to believe that
something horrible had happened to these girls, and David was
a piece of fucking human garbage. But I do think
they focused on him way, way too much. They wanted
it to be him so much, right, they lost sight
of any other possibility, right, which is crazy.
Speaker 2 (49:11):
Exactly they wanted like the worst case scenario or like
the easiest, simplest, fucking like explanation didn't really pop into
their heads for whatever reason, like that it was an
accident that they had driven off the road. Yeah, one
minute they're behind these boys, and then the next minute
they're not.
Speaker 1 (49:29):
Like exactly beyond crazy to me. So as I was
listening to this book, I kept saying to myself, Number one,
the fact that the grand jury indicted on that evidence
was heinous to me. I was horrified, right, like there
was no physical evidence whatsoever. But also David's MO was
(49:50):
that he would become so obsessive with his partners that
he would do horrible things to them.
Speaker 2 (49:57):
Right, it wasn't just a random it was a very like,
very personal.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
Delusional, psychotic way of processing those relationships. Like Pam and
Cherry would not have been because typical, and more importantly,
he would have gone started with murder and then worked
his way backwards. So he would have started with murder
and then left his victims alive after that, which also
(50:24):
is super the man. And then when like, for instance,
that that secretary calls up and says, oh, well, like
this sheriff believed that the boys were involved, the sheriffs
back then did not believe that they literally.
Speaker 2 (50:39):
They got away to Canada to join a Hippi commune.
Speaker 1 (50:41):
Yeah, exactly, So it just became this weird.
Speaker 2 (50:44):
Obviously, it's the seventies crazy.
Speaker 1 (50:46):
Witch hunt that just made no sense. I mean, and
that's why I really wanted to point out what a
piece of shit David was, because he is not a
fucking victim. He's not. I think his poor mother was
more of a him than he ever was, because what
the fuck? And his poor sister, like, clearly she has
(51:07):
some unresolved, unresolved mental things going on. Yeah, and she
may have been led I think by.
Speaker 2 (51:13):
Her doctor same hypnosis.
Speaker 1 (51:18):
But all overall, that is the fucking nuts o guts
o case of Sherry and Pam, who forty two years
to get justice right literally just sitting off a bridge,
like what half a mile away from where they were
supposed to be going, Like I just yeah, blew my mind, dude.
Speaker 2 (51:39):
That's just wow to me, Like I feel like, I
don't know, that's a big ass creak.
Speaker 1 (51:44):
You should see a picture. I can cheke a picture
because it's like nuts anyway, that's that's the case.
Speaker 2 (51:51):
Thanks for sharing that, once a hair. That what a
fucking twist at the end, Like I wasn't expecting them
to have just no, but yeah, especially it reminds me
of the Kylie.
Speaker 1 (52:00):
Yeah, the Kylie Rodney Kesklie Rodney case, Yeah, that poor girl,
And that's apparently exactly what happened in Oklahoma too, Like
that guy he had read in the paper because the
water levels were so low that year that he was
that people were finding these cars.
Speaker 2 (52:14):
And he was like, I'm gonna go fucking check this
out right now, Like wait.
Speaker 1 (52:17):
A second, we built that bridge right before these girls
went missing. And he went out and looked in there.
Speaker 2 (52:23):
It was fucking nuts that he just put two and
two together and like had the gumption to go be like,
I'm gonna go fucking go look, I'm gonna go check. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (52:30):
I think he like even rode his bike or some
shit down there, and then he had to like he
was like what the.
Speaker 2 (52:35):
Fuck and he ride his bike back all fast and
ship like I just found Yeah, beyond nuts.
Speaker 1 (52:43):
I'm like, I'm glad her family, like both their families
that were left after forty something years, we're able to
kind of get some closure and then right, hopefully his
brother and mother.
Speaker 2 (52:54):
Weren't completely traumatized from him. Yeah, and his sister too
hopefully forgot Yeah, because some psychiatric care and what is
she actually repressing.
Speaker 1 (53:05):
Well, it sounds like her life there probably wasn't.
Speaker 2 (53:08):
She was probably abused too.
Speaker 1 (53:10):
Yeah, it sounds like just based on the mental state
of David, I can't imagine what that was like.
Speaker 2 (53:20):
Yeah, growing up, whether.
Speaker 1 (53:22):
Or not that was how to do with his parents
or just the time or just him or what. But yeah,
kind of crazy. Well, guys, thank you so much for
hanging out with us today.
Speaker 2 (53:35):
Yeah. We always love it when you listen to our stuff. Yeah,
or you share videos of you listening to our stuff
while you're driving through the fog.
Speaker 1 (53:43):
Electro, We love you, Electrak, It's so funny.
Speaker 2 (53:49):
Yeah, if you have any case corrections, suggestions, if you
got those recipes laying around, I know I have some
that I still need to make, and I'm sorry. I
told Sara that was a maker some pumpkin bed and
I never did that.
Speaker 1 (54:00):
Stomach is goraling.
Speaker 2 (54:01):
I'm sorry, but we'll get around to them. And Yeah,
in the meantime, hit us up on the old Instagram a.
Speaker 1 (54:13):
Scream Dot and Dot Sugar dot.
Speaker 2 (54:15):
Podcast or on the old Facebook.
Speaker 1 (54:17):
A't Scream and Sugar, True Crime Coffee Hour, tick a Talk,
Scream Dot and Dot Sugar, or you can shoot us
an email that's Scream and Sugar Reno at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2 (54:28):
Thanks for listening and until next time, stay spooky, y'all.
Speaker 3 (54:34):
Bye bye bye.
Speaker 2 (54:39):
I'm just gonna stick with the y'all. I'm not doing
babies anymore.
Speaker 3 (54:43):
I'm just a little baby.
Speaker 4 (55:00):
Mmmmm.
Speaker 1 (55:14):
Rule Creek bruel or Browley Creek.
Speaker 2 (55:18):
Brule b r U l E Brule, Brule, Brules, rules, rules,
Rulesno Christy rule.
Speaker 1 (55:26):
Bill Bill
Welcome back, everyone to another episode of Scream and Sugar,
your true crime coffee Hour, the podcast where we dive
into darker side of history while enjoying a little something
sweet on the side. I am your host, Sahara, I'm Candace,
and today we're going to talk about the disappearance of
Pam Jackson and Cherry Miller.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Okayness, tip up the tongue, teepen the lips, Unique New York,
Unique own now brown cow.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Nasty water because our college everyone can just drinks tap water.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
It's just fucking tap water.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
The fucking your damn turtle, your turtle tap water drinking.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Turtle drinking ass bitch. I got from our fucking water
bottle filling stations here at the Lovely U n R.
And I used it actually in you're building the agriculture.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
That's the one you should never use.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
And it had the yellow.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Yeah, the filters are always bad, alter and they taste
like tap water.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
That's what it fucking is. Then it's their fault, not mine.
I'm just trying to hydrate my life right now. And
because you forgot.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Your water bottle, I forgot my water today.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Beggars can't be choosers.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
My mouth is dry, my lips are dry.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Fill it with the other water real quick.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
That's okay, We're going to get through this all right. Everybody,
welcome back in. It's so nice to hang with you again.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Today I wanted to cover a little cute coffee shop
that I found next to Beloved Bakery because Bakery was
closed on my ass. Oh, it's actually so cute. It's
called main Vein Coffee Company and it is in the
what's that called the public market?
Speaker 2 (02:24):
In a public market?
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Yeah on plum about a cute bot, a cute, very
witchy vibes. So I think there used to be a
food truck if I remember correctly. I think we I've
had their coffee before at punk correct flea nice if
I remember right. But they have like a little tiny
booth in there. It's super super cute. I don't know
(02:47):
if you've seen their logo.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
But it is very precious. And I remember talking about
wanting to go in there at one point and we
got something else, yes.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Yes, yes, yes, So I did end up going there
and everything was delicious. I did not get a waffle,
but they do have things called bubble waffles there.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
I'm not sure what that is like a waffle.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
I'm not sure. It just says bubble waffle. It sounds amazing.
I should have probably eaten.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
It, but waffles heavy.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
You know me, Mammy, I would just be getting the
most basic.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
So I got an Americano I did.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
I didn't get, but I was with William and he
got an iced Italian soda.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Ooh, Italian sodas a bomb.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Yeah, it was really good. It was like strawberry vanilla
or raspberry vanilla, and it was like top notch. But
they have like so many cute, like witchy drinks. So
they have one called catharsis transcend Hypnosis.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Well clips his white chocolate and lavender, which I thought
you would appreciate.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Yes, those are my flavors.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
So and then Catharus is like French toast. And then
they have like extra special ones that are like specials
on the board, so not just shnaggy stuff.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Check it out.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Yeah, super cute, super good. In the Breeza was so sweet.
So yeah, give that a little checkout if you are
in the area, if you're dying for a caffeine like I.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Was, dude, and if you're not in a caffeine vibe,
if that meat a lot of stand is still there.
It's just so freaking good. If you're in a oh.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
My god, there's no meat, a lot of stand in there.
If there's a lot of stand.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
There should be still there because that's a little corner.
Fucking If you walk past Mainvein on the left hand side,
there's like a little cabana thing that is literally just
then maybe they moved out meats a lot of stand.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
God, damn, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Damn, it's so good because.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
I was trying to think on the left right past
Main Vein, was there's a little place to take pictures.
Oh yeah, it was if they put up some balloons
for like a backdrop or something.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
I haven't been there in a couple of months, so.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
A lot of place I feel like we should go
just double check, you know, just to be safe.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
You like, if it's there's the Haara met a lot
of If.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
It's there, I will buy so many a lot of
a really my favorite things.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
It was really good, like the one so bad choose
your own beer and then they had their own like
jamoy and like the taen stuff that they put on it,
like that makes it so.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
I know, I'm like truly, just thinking about it can cut.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Anyway.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Well wait, yes, break my heart. We know things here,
we know things big brains today, big brains. I am
pretty tired. Okay, this is pretty tired. So I'm just
going to hop on right, and I don't know how
long this one's going to be. Hopefully it's not crazy.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Okay, Okay, what that sounds your energemon coming out.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
I don't want to do this episode, but so I
think I'll just give you, like start off by giving
you a little top line. So, in May of nineteen
seventy one, Pam Jackson and Sherry Miller were too high
school girls seventeen years old. They were driving to a
party like a keg party in a Studi Baker Lark
(06:10):
when they seemingly disappeared just off the face of the earth.
Police back then didn't do enough to try to find them.
Investigators thirty years later did way too much. Two families
and theired decades of pain as they await answers of
what happened to their children. And then a third family
is pulled into the mystery, and the nightmare just gets worse.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
What done, dune, dum done dun, don't get sued by.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Did I tell you I bought a T shirt with them?
I don't know what came over me. I bought a
T shirt with Elliott Stabler and Olivia Benson on it,
and it's just her going like this, and then Elliot
Stabler going behind her and were like kind of gram
and he was going and I don't know.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
What came over me when I bought it, but like,
this sick shirt needs to be mine.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
It's like I have to have this. And then I
bought it and I was like it will be mine?
Is I get to wear this? Is like nobody's going
to know who these people are. Yes, it looks bonkers.
I love it so much.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
That's amazing. Picture. Yeah, your picture of you wearing it
doing the same the same pose, the same pose.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
What's her name?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Mariska Mariska.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
I don't know the actress. I know she's like a
fantastic actress. I don't know about it. She's just Olivia
Benson to me.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Her mother was a very beautiful and famous actress as well.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Really, yes, Mariska Haggartyargate Arkite Haggarty, Jesus Christ Mariska Hargeta.
And now I need to know mom. Jane Mansfield is her.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Mother, John Mansfield bombacious if you've ever seen that, there's
the picture that flies around with the bombshell blonde and
she's got like a burnette checking out her boobies. That's yes,
Jane Mansfield. Oh, a very very famous photo. Yeah, I
know that is Mariska's mama.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
They do kind of have somewhat similar features, doesn't it.
Huh wow, Well, the more you know, I'm all right,
you're right, am I right?
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Right, well, yes, so I guess I digress Back to
the case. High school junior Sharry Miller wakes up and
works a housekeeping shift at the hospital in a place
called Vermillion, South Dakota. You can imagine this is a
pretty teeny tiny town in South Dakota. The day is
May twenty ninth, nineteen seventy one, and she is actually
(08:57):
really excited because she and her friend Pam Jackson, normally
very responsible and quiet girls, have decided they're going to
go to a rural keg party that is being held
in a gravel pit in the nearby woods, as.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
You do when you're teenagers.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Absolutely, around six pm, Sherry calls Pam and asks to
pick her up to go driving around eight and she's
going to be in her grandpa's nineteen sixty nineteen sixty
Studebaker Lark type, Yes, this is important because this car, like,
we'll get into it, he'd shout it. As she picks
(09:36):
Pam up and they start driving. They start heading out
driving Before they head to the Keg party, they actually
stop and visit Sherry's grandmother, Pearl, who is dying of
cancer sadly, at the hospital, and they're there from nine
to nine thirty pm, which I was like, that's crazy time.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
That's not that's past visiting, you think. But she works,
she works close fathers like, hey, let me.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
And I guess Cherry was feeling super worried about her grandmak.
She just was not doing well. And this is all
I confirmed that they were there. They started driving to
the party after this, and other kids later on told
investigators that the girls had stopped and tried to get
them to go with them out to this party and
(10:17):
they didn't end up going. Another girl also heading to
the same party, her name was Mary Kay Larson, sees
Sherry's car make a wrong turn in these kind of
in the gravel Pay area on the way to the
party at about ten o'clock. Fifteen minutes later, the girls
are lost. They're driving around. They're trying to figure out
where the fuck they're going. It's dark out, and they
(10:39):
run into some boys in another car that are also
heading to this party. Okay, so the boys say, well,
why don't you guys just follow us and we'll take
you there. So they're driving and driving. At about a
couple miles down the road, the boys look up and
they're reary mirror and they notice the girls are gone,
so they're no longer following stop following them. They thought, well,
(11:00):
because these girls weren't normally like wants to go out
to the keg party, they thought, well, but they probably
changed their minds and decided to go home, So the
boys just continue on. They get to the party. At
the party all night, that's the last time I see them. Yeah, okay,
I was wondering if they got lost, maybe they were
out of cast. Maybe, well you think.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
So, But they were going the wrong way and the
guys were like like they got nervous or something and stopped.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Well, my understanding was the boys really knew the area. Okay,
so I think they were just like they really know
the girls, okay, No, not really. So the next morning, Sunday,
May thirtieth, Pam's mother realizes that Pam just never came
home and she calls Sherry's grandpa, Nick Jensen. She finds
out Sherry also never made it home, neither did the
studi bigger. So Sherry's grandpa, Nick Jensen, finds out that
(11:51):
Cherry has also now missed her shift at the hospital,
which she.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Never would have bet normal, okay.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
So the adults here are all like, something's fucking wrong.
Something happened. Sherry would never miss a shift, and Pam
was always like she always came home or at least
contacted her family to let them know she was okay.
So the parents call the Clay County sheriff Sheriff's department,
and they talked to the sheriff, Arnie Nelson, and they're like, hey,
we want to report our girls missing. Something's going on,
(12:16):
and Arnie tells them that surprise, the girls run away.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
And they can be home soon, right, you need to
wait for seventy two hours or some bullshit like that.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Yeah. Well, and it's it's crazy like how this ends
up changing, because we'll get into it in a bit here,
but I feel like the police didn't drop the yep,
they dropped the ball. They didn't give a fuck. So
(12:57):
not to be deterred by their shitty county police, Pam's
parents start taking to the news outlets, so they get
their story published in the Vermilion Plane Talk first, and
then it's picked up by other news outlets a couple
of days later. So these articles, of course are mentioning
things like what the girls were wearing, the car, and
their belongings. But for decades this case remained unsolved, and
(13:20):
we are going to go into why that is, okay,
after I have some water.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Water, delicious tap water from the agriculture building, when.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
You're dying, when you're dying, anything we're gonna take.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
So this case that I'm covering right now obviously is
gonna talk about Pam Jackson and Cherry Miller. But I'm
also gonna talk a little bit about this book that
I read that kind of goes into this case. It's
called Vanished in Vermilion, The Real Story of South Dakota's
most infamous cold case. It's by a man named lou Ragoose.
I don't think that's his real name. It's r A.
(14:00):
G Us.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
That's not a real name. I don't know that name.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
It's probably like Regaze or something like a super fancy.
Ragos is an award winning journalist. He's based out of Minnesota,
and he focuses mostly on crime cases and like court
cases and things. So when he wrote the story, he
actually spent a ton of time getting some details, baby
from details. So I will link this for you if
(14:27):
it's something that you're interested in reading up on on
your own. He has his own website called Vanished inmfromillion
dot com and on that site you can find like
a ton of crime scene photos. So if that's your gama, LAMB, give.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
It a look. See check it out.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
So back to our case, Ernie Nelson are fun. Sheriff
Man then issues a warrant for the girls as retinoways
so that if other authorities find them, they legally can
bring the girls home.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
I was like, yeah, I know, I said the same thing.
I was like, what the fun But kind of, like
I said, the police at this point, we're not taking
any of this seriously. No, So they assume these girls
were runaways. It really wasn't that important to them to
really go look for them. When the parents kept coming
back and saying that our kids wouldn't do this, they
were like, well they did, so they did though. Yeah
(15:20):
there was this, say, there was this rumor that they
had run off to a hippie commune in Canada. Yeah,
like just like weird shit like that wild. But the
family was like, this is not happening. Pam. When Sherry
called her, was actually working on address for some school
dance and she had been like working on it diligently, so.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
She had something to look forward to, and she was
spending a lot of time and effort in something she
wouldn't just she.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Wouldn't just up and leave.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Yeah, she didn't have her medications either. I think she
had like an inhaler or something and didn't have that. Like,
so her family was like, something's wrong, sadly. Grandma Pearl
ends up dying January uh Saturday, June twelfth, only fourteen
days after Sherry goes missing. Oh my god, and her
parents were like, if she really did run away, she
would come back. She would come back, because so they
(16:10):
posted up an obituary of her grandmother to try to
get her home.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Well, I would say too, if Grandma Pearl was dying
of cancer, and Cherry was very into and very close
with her grandmother. She wouldn't have left her while she
was on her deathbed, essentially.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
One hundred percent. No, yeah, yeah, It's just crazy to
me that these police were, like, no, run away.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
He ran away to join a hippie commune in Canada.
In Canada, Yes, those damn Canadians that.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Damn care Knightley so hot. I just love it so
much because I'm like, clear with your mom's a looking.
So meanwhile, County police are doing their quote unquote best
to investigate while still believing, of course girls ran off.
So nineteen seventies for you. A dispatcher taking tips on
the girls actually ends up writing a report at this
(16:56):
time from a caller who I d'd himself as Victor Hansen,
and Victor said that he shared a party line with
the Jackson family. So if you don't know what that is,
back in the day, people would all share the same
phone line, and I'm assuming it was just really cheap
to do it that way, but basically you could pick
up your house phone and you could hear other people
(17:17):
having conversations if they were using that line at that time.
So this person Victor Hansen, that I don't believe they
ever figured out who he was later on, which is
kind of weird, but he says he overheard Pam talking
about a boy named David and how David had slammed
her hand in a car door and had she had
said to him, Hey, well that wasn't very nice, and
(17:39):
he sort of like laughed it off and then said,
I wish I could photograph you. Oo. Yeah, And Victor
says that he believed this David kid was a student
at the University of South Dakota, so he thought he
was a college student. So the tip was filed away,
but remember it because it does open up a whole
another can of worms later on. So the parents are
(18:00):
are still getting this feeling that the police aren't taking
any of this seriously, and they keep trying to find
different ways to get people to help them find their girls.
They actually send a letter to the Attorney General and
in this letter they detail all the reasons why their
girls wouldn't run away. The Attorney General then sends the
case to the Division of Criminal Investigation at the state
(18:23):
who sends an investigator, Agent Patterson, to Vermilion to look
into the case in August of nineteen seventy one.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Okay, so that's two months later after their disappearance.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Okay, yeah, so two and a half months later, they
finally get somebody who's hopefully going to do something about this.
So Patterson gets there and he finds no leads at first,
but he receives a photograph from some people attending a
Luther Leech convention concert. I don't know if you've ever
heard of this, but apparently thousands of teens attended this concert.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
I have no idea who that is.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Neither. I hadn't never heard of it in my life.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
I'm not that old Toyarah.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Damn. I guess if you know who that is, then
you're a bitch accring to canvas here. But yes, thousands
of teens attended this fancy concert. And in their background
of this photo there is someone who looks a little
like Pam. So she is brushing her hair. It looks
like out of her face, so her hand is covering
(19:22):
part of her face, and it's like from the side,
and she's wearing glasses, but she's covered up mostly by
somebody standing in front of her.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Okay, so it's not a very reliable.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
No sour, not at all.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
And also why would they run away to go to
a concert?
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Yeah, and for months and months unless they're like following
them I guess, yeah, that's true the Deadheads back in
the day.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
But basically Patterson decides that this is probably Pam and
he closes the case. Yes, bastard, and I'm like, okay, well,
if that's Pam, we're sherry, like the hell. So at
this point, Sheriff Arnie Nelson is pissed off at the
family because they feel he feels like they went over
(20:11):
his head to get the state involved, and he was
uncooperative with the Patterson investigator, Agent Patterson, and he resists
Agent Patterson's input, so he kind of shuts down the
investigation on his end as well. Isn't that fucked up?
Speaker 2 (20:26):
What a piece of ship?
Speaker 1 (20:27):
I know. So the case goes cold, decades go by,
no leads, nada. This family's just both these families are
just like what the fuck?
Speaker 2 (20:38):
No remains, no side of the car, no.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Nothing, nothingsane. Occasionally my understanding is people would I would
say like, oh I think I saw her and such
and such, Yeah, exactly, yeah, but no real things happen leads,
No real leads were found, So a local news reporter
publishes a twenty year anniversary story about the girl's disappearance.
(21:03):
And he's the first person to interview three of the
classmates who saw the girls when they were out driving.
So before this, nobody had interviewed these kids. What the
it's that wild? So he gets information from the girl
who' saw him going down the wrong road and the
boys who met them on the way there. And when
he puts this out, he puts out a second publication
after that, and this renews curiosity throughout the region. It
(21:26):
also renews curiosity within the newly elected county police force. Okay,
so the old guys now have retired. There's a whole
new set of police force members in here. Kind of
any better, but we can't find it out girl. So
one of the newer officers, his name was Ray Hoffman,
teams up with the University of South Dakota and from
nineteen ninety one to nineteen ninety seven they tried to
(21:48):
determine if the girls even ended up at the gravel
pits that they were trying to get to and maybe
accidentally drove through the pits and into the creek that
is next.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
To christ It's just a creek, not a river, not
a I know.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Are you also thinking of Kylie Radney? Yep, I thought
about her too, So yeah, he wanted to know if
the girls maybe had ended up with the gravel pits
and drove through them into the Brule Creek, real Creek,
Rule Creek. So while investigating the area for all six
(22:20):
of those years, they found nothing at all in regards
to physical evidence, but they do realize that the gravel
pit location is awfully close to a nearby farm. On
this farm resides a man named David Lichen. So we
(22:41):
actually don't much.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Like David like, and I don't be liking David liking
at all.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
We don't like David liking. It's more like David Hayden.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Disliking David disliking.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
So David Lichen was in the same class as a
high school junior with Pam and Cherry, so they were
on the same.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Bus to school each other, so they.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Didn't know each other. David like it is not a
good dude. Okay, I want to make this clear as
a bell. They dislike him, Okay, we David dislike it. Okay.
In nineteen ninety two, he was sentenced to two hundred
and twenty five years in prison for the kidnapping, first
degree rape, and first degree burglary of an ex girlfriend.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
This was one hundred and twenty five years, two hundred
twenty five, two hundred and twenty five years.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
And it was because an additional five ex partners who
showed up to testify against him at the same.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Time, so it was twenty five years.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
He was an habitual offender.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Wow, Okay, yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
So not a very good guy. I'm just going to
go over the case a little bit between him and
the victim that finally got him put behind bars. So
her name, we're gonna call her d h because that's
what she's labeled as in the in the court case notes.
But she says that she was a vulnerable, struggling and
(24:04):
lonely student at the university and she had recently applied
for divorce from her husband after many many years. She
met David in a computer class and they hit it off,
and he had acted very kind and compassionate and comforting
to her, and he showered her with attention, like so
much attention, and they dated intimately for four months. Okay,
(24:28):
Apparently as her divorce trial came closer, so the date
of her divorce trial came closer, she started focusing on
it more and more and giving less attention to David,
which he did not like. He became incredibly possessive, controlling,
and his behavior was just super abnormal. He was obsessed
(24:50):
with her court case, and when she got the decree
saying that she was divorced, like, he was really upse
by it. And I'm not really sure why she was
like going after custody for her kids, and he was pissed.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
Off because he wanted attention to all be on him,
and if she got her kids, then obviously she wouldn't
have one hundred percent of her time to dedicate to.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Him, yeah, which is crazy.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
So he starts acting like just fucking nuts, and so
she tries to dump him and she's like, Okay, I'm
done with you. Like, and she's, from what I've gathered
at least by these notes, like she was really just
a very nice person. She was not confrontational. She was
trying really hard to get her life together, and so
she kept saying like, listen, I don't want to be
with you romantically anymore. I just want to be friends,
(25:40):
and he would say like, okay, I understand, but then
he would not behave like he understood, So he would
show up at her house at all hours of the day,
calling her constantly. If she went to somebody else's house,
he would show up at their house and he would
cry and yell at her and tell her he was
(26:00):
like going to commit suicide and all these things to
try to keep her under his control. Finally, one day
in July of nineteen ninety, she woke up at one
am to see David at the end of her bed.
Oh fuck me, And he said, Dottie, why don't you
love me? And she said, you need to get out
(26:23):
of here, and he and I'm going to put in
a trigger warning hair, so bing gone go. He said
he wanted to make love to her one more time
before he died, and then he physically assaulted her as
(26:43):
she tried to push him away, and he slammed her
heart into the bed multiple times and started pulling off
her clothes. He also began to strangle her Jesus her
kids were in the apartment, so that scared her a lot,
and he had shut and locked her door behind him
when he came in, and she started asking him, you know,
to stop doing what he was doing and telling him
(27:06):
that she didn't want to do this, and he said,
and it really, she said, was like a very frightening
tone that didn't sound like his normal voice. He said,
don't piss me off. Oh no, and then he forced
her to look at him while he raped her multiple
times during which he would talk to her. So he
said that before she called the police, she should give
(27:27):
him a few minutes to escape so he could kill
himself before the police got there.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Good lord.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
At one point he was unable to perform, and he said,
I can't even do it. I can't do anything right.
I can't even leave a good DNA sample for the police. Oh,
I know, what the fuck?
Speaker 2 (27:43):
What a bastard.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
So this poor woman, she finally after he leaves, she
gets up, she locks the doors, she lays in her bed,
and she finally calls her friend, who calls their pastor,
and the pastor and the friend take her to the
police department to do a kit and like get a
report filed and everything. So get this. Detective Hoffman was
(28:08):
the reporting policeman, so he saw the injuries that were
on this woman. Which is probably why he thought of
David when he was digging through those gravel pits so
close to his house.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Right, He's like, this guy is already a violent man
and obviously sick and twisted in the head and violent
towards women especially, So yeah, and multiple partners coming forward,
six women all together, You're saying that came forward. Who
(28:40):
knows how many other women didn't.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Come forward, And he read he heard all their testimonies.
One of them even wrote like this essay about like
how it affected her life, Like he saw what kind
of guy this guy was. So yeah, he went to
prison two hundred twenty five years, which is honestly unheard
of and wonderful to see.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Right.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
So, Huffman says, I think that this David fellow has
something to do with this, and he tries to tie
it back to him, but he doesn't have any evidence
at all showing that David's involved. So in May of
two thousand and four, so long long time from nineteen
seventy one, no real leads or evidence, the South Dakota
Attorney General's Office creates a cold case program of which
(29:22):
Pam Jackson, the Pam Jackson and Sherry Miller's case is
one of the first two cases that they work on.
The lead detective is Agent Mike Brayley, and he's already
got David Liken on his mind as a suspect. So
word of David's actions had gotten around this small town,
so everybody was kind of talking, and his family even
(29:43):
was kind of like people were a little like they
felt bad for his mom, but they were also kind
of like stand offish towards his family. And the retired
Officer Hoffman from earlier, he's now retired. He wasn't before
he is now. So this is third generation police basically,
is where we're at.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
So there was the first detective that didn't give a shit,
there's the second detective that's trying to get back into
the case, and now there's a third detective on the case.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Is that what you're saying, Yeah, exactly. So we have
the first set of detectives, which was Sheriff Nelson who
did not give a fuck. There's the second set, which
was Officer Hoffman who worked with the university to try
to prove that they were out in those glravel pits.
And then Officer Hoffman also he's retired now, but he
was also there as part of David Liken's case, so
(30:29):
he had him as a suspect on the brain. And
then now Officer Hoffman, who's retired, is working a little
bit with Agent Brayley to try to get him up
to speed on where the case was the last time
he worked on it. And now it's May of two
thousand and four.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
So Hoffman does tell them about David's crimes and he
links them up with the women who came forward to
testify against David. So the team starts by interviewing all
of those women over again, and they start taking a
little bit of a closer look at the like in farm.
So his family lived on a large farm with lots
(31:08):
of property and lots of space, multiple houses. David is
still in prison, obviously, but his mother and his brother
are still living at the farm. He also had a
sister that Hoffmann tells Agent Brayley that he believed was
sexually assaulted by her brother David. So his sister, I'm
(31:28):
gonna call her Nancy, she's also called sometimes. I want
to protect her identity. I think this is the fake identity,
but I also saw that the other one was the
fake identity. So honestly, I have no idea, so I'm
gonna call her Nancy. So at first, Nancy says that
the two girls, Sherry and Pam, had never been to
(31:49):
their farm and that David had probably nothing to do
with it. She didn't think they ever interacted. And then
as she's talking to Agent Brayley, she starts feeling really
anxious and like she's having a hard time breathing, and
she almost has like a panic attack. Okay, and she's like,
I don't know why I'm feeling this way. I don't
know what's going on. So they end the interview a
(32:12):
little early, and they promised to meet back up with
her later to finish it later on. So the following month,
Nancy again talks to the investigators, but she is starting
to remember things that she had previously forgotten, like suppressed
it maybe or she thinks these are suppressed memories. I
(32:32):
will point out that she's no longer in contact with
her family at this point. Like repressed or suppressed, repressed, suppressed, oppressed.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Depressed, depressed, God damn it, dude, suppressed suppression, Okay.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Suppressed memories are memories that are deliberately pushed out of
conscious awareness because they're not because they are associated was
the traumatic. Yeah, However, repressed are memories that are unconsciously blocked. Okay, repressed, repressed, Okay,
both these oppressed memories. The following month that Nancy toks
(33:21):
the investigators again, saying that she started to remember new things,
new memories.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
That's interesting.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Yeah, like they were repressed, like.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
She had been repressing them all along.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Perhaps. Nancy says that she knows that her brothers were
both involved, not just David. She thinks both brothers are involved,
both them. For instance, she started to remember seeing large
pits being dug on the farm around nineteen seventy one.
She was she would have been a teenager at this point,
by the way, so it's like fifteen.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
She says.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
In nineteen seventy one, they were starting to dig all
over the farm, her family was.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
All over.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
And she also remembers seeing lots of large fires because
they would have burning pits where they would put sick
animals that had been put down. They would burn them
out and these burning pits, trash would be burned here.
That's where they would dispose of their trash and things.
And she says they would have all these big fires
going on on the farm. As she continued to meet
with them, she started saying even weirder things. She said
(34:29):
that her parents they would always cover up for her
brothers when her brothers would do bad things, and that
David had definitely had something to do with these girls
disappearance the fuck allegedly. At this point, I will point
out Agent Brayley hadn't told her that he was looking
into the girl's disappearance, Okay, He just told her he
was interviewing her her brother.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
So she didn't know that he was looking into Sherry
and Pam's cold case that have been closed.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Basically exactly. He didn't tell me, so she just pressed
on her own, so this made him believe that he
was on the right track.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Soon she called and told Brayley that her brother was
very capable of violence and killing and that her family
would have covered it up for him. She mentioned that
she had five locks on her door when she lived
with with David, and that he loved guns and liked
having guns around and he would point them at her
(35:26):
if he wanted her to do something. She mentioned like,
if he wanted you to do something, he would pull
out a gun. He would point it at you until
you did it.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
She also mentioned that her brother would sometimes have her
drive the family car so that he could go after
or get on top of a girl from school when
the I know. When the investigator asked her to elaborate
a little bit, she said he would fondle them in
the backseat, and I'm like, hopefully consensually. I don't know.
(35:57):
It didn't sound like it sound like yeah. So this
was enough for the investigators to start interrogating David Liking
in the South Dakota State Penitentiary about Pam and Cherry's disappearance.
(36:23):
So they go in and they start asking David like, Hey,
do you know these girls? And he said, oh, I
know who they are. You know, casually, I remember them disappearing,
but I don't really know anything more than that. We
were never friends. We never really hung out. David mentions
that his brother Merle, said that he had gone up
to New York City in the nineteen eighties and spoken
to Pam Jackson. Merle told David that Pam recognized him
(36:47):
and talked to him, and that she still had her
dark hair and glasses, and that Merle thought she was
working as a sex worker. Okay, kind of convenient in
my opinion, right, So the police don't believe him, like
at all, and they start interrogating him further, and at
this point, David realizes that they're there because they think
he did it, and he says, no, no, that couldn't
(37:08):
have been me. Back then, I was only one hundred
and ten pounds. I was just a little guy. I
couldn't have done it. It wasn't me. And the police
are like.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
All right, I couldn't have done what? All right?
Speaker 1 (37:17):
Yeah, exactly right. So they start snooping around the farm.
Their first rate on the farm occurs on Tuesday, August
twenty fourth, and they start by focusing on the areas
that Nancy said were being dug up around that time.
They actually brought her a map and she like pointed
him out. So dozens of agents come to this farm
and they start digging. They are a diggin. David's brother,
Kerwin and his eighty four year old mother Esther still
(37:40):
live on the property in separate houses, so they're also interrogated.
Kerwin even takes a polygraph, which he fails on the spot.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
Not liable anyway, but okay.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
Good point, can't. So they dig up the areas where
the families used to burn and bury their trash, and
they take a lot of items from there. However, there
is still nothing that implicates his family and the disappearance
of the girls. Okay, so this search was clear to everybody,
like everybody in the town could see this happening, and
(38:17):
they started to whisper even more, like, oh, this family,
the evil family. Exactly.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
They already know that David's a piece of a piece
of trash.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
So one of the nineteen seventy one secretaries from the
Clay County Sheriff's Department calls and tells the investigators that
she remembers Union County Sheriff Ed Ekren going to the
like and farm and interviewing David, his father, his brothers
and saying that they were very nervous and that they
were hiding something. She said that Ekron even came back
convinced that they had done something, but he knew he
(38:48):
couldn't prove it, and he was afraid of them. None
of this was in the notes, none of it, motherfucker. Like,
as far as the investigators could tell, ed Ekren wasn't
even a part of this investigation. So they were like why, Like,
what is going on here is like some sort of
weird town conspiracy. So, after finding nothing on the farm,
they spoke with Nancy's doctor. Her psychiatrist told the investigators
(39:11):
that the trauma of her past was keeping her memories
hidden and that hypnosis might be able to uncover the truth.
Oh yes, speech nineteen.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
Laurens Everything polygraph fucking.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Hypnosis, County Police, County County.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
So Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
During her videotaped hypnotherapy session with doctor Fred mag Navido,
I know fancy name, Nancy finally dropped a huge bomb.
She said that she was in the machine shed in
nineteen seventy one and she saw Sherry and Pam in
the Studebaker Lark with her brothers. She said that Sherry
(39:52):
was lying over the steering wheel and Pam had her
head on the passenger window. She went on to say
that she heard something like a gunshot and when she
went to run, she ran into David and he started
to choke her until she became unconscious. She recalled hearing
her brother say something like we got to take care
of this over the next few days, and started suddenly
seeing a wheelbarrow covered with a tarp on the property.
(40:15):
After that, she ended up, of course, getting curious, going
over and looking under the tarp, where she saw the
bodies of Sherry and Pam, which she believed were then
fed to their animals. Yes, pigs, cows cows and.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Pigs cows cows don't eat meat.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
I don't know, that's what she said. She said the
cows food was looking a little bit different than it
used to. She used the meat grinders.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Leave the cows alone.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
I know the car she believed was buried on the farm, And.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
Interesting that they buried it and didn't try to like
burn it right.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
Well, I guess the idea was that that's why they
were digging those big gas pits.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
Push a whole loss car. How deep you have to
dig to fucking bear?
Speaker 1 (41:11):
Who last car? No?
Speaker 2 (41:12):
What do you do with the display soil? That's a lot.
I mean they're on a farm. I'm sure they could
figure it out that well.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
And it's interesting to say that because one of the
investigators from nineteen seventy one said that there were certain
parts of the farm where if a coward to walk
out there, it would sink up to its knees.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
It's great dirt, a great feature to have on your
farm if you got it was.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
Like recently disturbed. But the family said, well, yeah, it
would have been because we were installing a septic tank,
a sewer ditch, a burn pit, and a silo all
around that timeframe. Okay, so they were like, yeah, we
were digging out there. So with these new details, the
investigators obtained a new warrant. They searched the farm for
a second time.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
I would have fucking looked in to see if they
had a fucking receipt for the fucking silo, for the
fucking septic tank, for the and whatever the fuck else like.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
So they did build them, but according to Nancy, they preferred, well,
they preferred to do all the work themselves. So they
were out there building everything themselves. A septic tank, like
they bought the subject tanks, like they have their seats
for that, but they put it out in the yard themselves,
like instead of hiring people to come to it. That's fair, man,
(42:23):
if you're watching any money, and you can makes sense. So, yes,
they searched the farm a second time. But now they're
looking for the student of Baker, and they're looking for
a wheelbear, and they're looking for a feed grinder and
They're like, it's got to be out here somewhere, right,
she saw I get buried unless they like unburied it
and moved it. Later on and they find jackshit on
(42:46):
the farm property nada. The investigators decide to try and
trick David into confessing because they're like, Hey, how the
fuck else are we going to do this?
Speaker 2 (42:54):
You're in fucking prison for life anyway, So.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
They attach a listening device to an inmate named Aloysius
black Crow, who told prison staff that David had told
him about disposing of the girl's bodies. So black Crow
brings back four tapes of him talking with David, where
David is confessing to raping and killing the girls. He's
(43:17):
also reminiscing and laughing and implicates his brother Kerwin in
the tapes as well. So in the tapes he says
that he kept trophies from the girls hair, specifically that
was kept in a book in the house. So they
investigators think, we've got him. We've got him, So they
complete a third search of the farm, but this time
(43:38):
they include the house. They find some very interesting things,
including pornography and photographs that appear to be of a
deceased woman and hair tucked into.
Speaker 2 (43:47):
A bible and to the bible. Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
They bring in Kerwin and his lawyer and they play
the recordings for him, and Kerwin says, point blank, that's
not my brother's voice that you have recorded here. So
they're like, okay, buddy, mm sure thing. So the lawyer says, well,
let's get copies of the tapes. We'll have them reviewed,
and we'll have your brother's lawyer take a look at them.
(44:12):
In the meantime, investigators are looking at their evidence and
they can't prove that the hair in the bible came
from Pam or Sherry, and they can't prove that the
photograph has anyone who's deceased in it at all. But regardless,
the grand jury indicts David for the murder of the girls,
(44:32):
premeditated murder, felony murder, and murder.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
One based on the tapes. Okay, so they're admissible in
a court of law.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
Yeah, based on the tapes. So after hearing the tapes,
David's legal team are like, dude, that's not you. You're
not on these tapes, and he's like, that's not me.
And so they don't tell the prosecution that that's not
David on the tapes.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
What the fucks someone was So.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
They go around to try to figure out what the
fuck is going on, and they discovered that black Crow
had used a friend named Billy Youtzi to pretend to
be David so he'd get time off his sentence in
items from the prison guarden.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
What a butt, And.
Speaker 1 (45:10):
He had done this with another inmate as well.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
Well then how would he be reliable?
Speaker 1 (45:14):
Well, they so it happens afterwards. Yeah, he got caught
after he had already started this process. I know, noth insane.
So David's legal team was able to get the tapes
removed and thus the prosecution had no evidence, and the
Attorney General drops the murder charges against David in two
thousand and eight, once again this poor families are left
(45:34):
no answer for what happened to their girls. The case
goes cold. Now fucking get this, This is gonna blow
your mind because a blue mine. September of twenty thirteen,
Pam's father, Oscar Jackson passes away and as people are
getting prepared for his funeral, a local man named Jim
Sorenson leaves his house, let's meet and closing the door.
(45:56):
So he had just read a newspaper article about a
similar case in Oklahoma that turned up two cars with
three bodies in a nearby lake. He remembered that in
nineteen seventy one, they had just built a new bridge
over the Brulay Creek leading into the area where the
girls went missing. The water that season was really high,
(46:16):
and here in September of twenty thirteen, it was barely
a trickle. It was low, very very low water. So
he drove up to the bridge and simply looked over
the edge, and he saw what appeared to be the
bumper of a nineteen sixty Studa Baker Lark. Fuck up, yep,
guess what, bitch.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
They just drove off the road.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
They just drove off the road. So investigators pulled up
the car, and they found the skeletal remains of Pam
and Sherry, alongside some of their items in Sherry's purse,
with her driver's license, notes from classmates, and photographs.
Speaker 2 (46:51):
Still don't they fucking.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
Find this earlier? It was in the car was still
in third gear, the headlights were on, and the keys
were still in the ignition.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
Holy shit.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
There was also damage to one tire, which could be
just from forty years of being in the water.
Speaker 2 (47:12):
Or it could have caused them to go off drive
off the road.
Speaker 1 (47:15):
They could have gone out.
Speaker 2 (47:17):
Oh I'm so sad that her dad didn't get to,
i know, finally get some closure of what happened to
his baby girl and know that it wasn't something so heinous.
Speaker 1 (47:28):
Nefarious, Yeah, nefarious.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
Yeah, that she didn't she.
Speaker 1 (47:31):
Didn't suffer necessarily, right, So Yeah, the conclusion was that
it was likely an accident, since that season was exceptionally
wet and the bridge was new for forty two years.
It had just rusted off the road near a bridge
half a mile from the girl's destination. Half a mile.
Speaker 2 (47:49):
How flipped did they not? Okay, I'm sorry someone I
just didn't understand.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
Yeah, I and normally, I guess because when people were
out looking, the water was always higher, because it always
they were always out looking when it just happened to
be spring.
Speaker 2 (48:05):
Wouldn't you see some sort of like tire tracks leading
off the road into the creek.
Speaker 1 (48:10):
Well, and that's the thing is, they said, we had
always focused on the gravel pits half a mile up,
so they have searched all the gravel pits. They had
never even considered looking back by this bridge. One of
the sheriff's department members who was around in nineteen seventy
three said, well, we'd occasionally go back and research the
area of the gravel pits and hope we'd find just
in hopes we'd find the car. But I can honestly
(48:31):
say I never looked over that bridge. Never. I just
like couldn't believe it. Meanwhile, Kerwin and Esther were a
town prize. They lost a fuck ton of money. His
mother ended up, Esther ended up with a ton of
health issues because of this, and they attempted to sue
the cold case investigators, but the state said, nah, yeah
(48:52):
it was I mean, they had reason to believe that
something horrible had happened to these girls, and David was
a piece of fucking human garbage. But I do think
they focused on him way, way too much. They wanted
it to be him so much, right, they lost sight
of any other possibility, right, which is crazy.
Speaker 2 (49:11):
Exactly they wanted like the worst case scenario or like
the easiest, simplest, fucking like explanation didn't really pop into
their heads for whatever reason, like that it was an
accident that they had driven off the road. Yeah, one
minute they're behind these boys, and then the next minute
they're not.
Speaker 1 (49:29):
Like exactly beyond crazy to me. So as I was
listening to this book, I kept saying to myself, Number one,
the fact that the grand jury indicted on that evidence
was heinous to me. I was horrified, right, like there
was no physical evidence whatsoever. But also David's MO was
(49:50):
that he would become so obsessive with his partners that
he would do horrible things to them.
Speaker 2 (49:57):
Right, it wasn't just a random it was a very like,
very personal.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
Delusional, psychotic way of processing those relationships. Like Pam and
Cherry would not have been because typical, and more importantly,
he would have gone started with murder and then worked
his way backwards. So he would have started with murder
and then left his victims alive after that, which also
(50:24):
is super the man. And then when like, for instance,
that that secretary calls up and says, oh, well, like
this sheriff believed that the boys were involved, the sheriffs
back then did not believe that they literally.
Speaker 2 (50:39):
They got away to Canada to join a Hippi commune.
Speaker 1 (50:41):
Yeah, exactly, So it just became this weird.
Speaker 2 (50:44):
Obviously, it's the seventies crazy.
Speaker 1 (50:46):
Witch hunt that just made no sense. I mean, and
that's why I really wanted to point out what a
piece of shit David was, because he is not a
fucking victim. He's not. I think his poor mother was
more of a him than he ever was, because what
the fuck? And his poor sister, like, clearly she has
(51:07):
some unresolved, unresolved mental things going on. Yeah, and she
may have been led I think by.
Speaker 2 (51:13):
Her doctor same hypnosis.
Speaker 1 (51:18):
But all overall, that is the fucking nuts o guts
o case of Sherry and Pam, who forty two years
to get justice right literally just sitting off a bridge,
like what half a mile away from where they were
supposed to be going, Like I just yeah, blew my mind, dude.
Speaker 2 (51:39):
That's just wow to me, Like I feel like, I
don't know, that's a big ass creak.
Speaker 1 (51:44):
You should see a picture. I can cheke a picture
because it's like nuts anyway, that's that's the case.
Speaker 2 (51:51):
Thanks for sharing that, once a hair. That what a
fucking twist at the end, Like I wasn't expecting them
to have just no, but yeah, especially it reminds me
of the Kylie.
Speaker 1 (52:00):
Yeah, the Kylie Rodney Kesklie Rodney case, Yeah, that poor girl,
And that's apparently exactly what happened in Oklahoma too, Like
that guy he had read in the paper because the
water levels were so low that year that he was
that people were finding these cars.
Speaker 2 (52:14):
And he was like, I'm gonna go fucking check this
out right now, Like wait.
Speaker 1 (52:17):
A second, we built that bridge right before these girls
went missing. And he went out and looked in there.
Speaker 2 (52:23):
It was fucking nuts that he just put two and
two together and like had the gumption to go be like,
I'm gonna go fucking go look, I'm gonna go check. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (52:30):
I think he like even rode his bike or some
shit down there, and then he had to like he
was like what the.
Speaker 2 (52:35):
Fuck and he ride his bike back all fast and
ship like I just found Yeah, beyond nuts.
Speaker 1 (52:43):
I'm like, I'm glad her family, like both their families
that were left after forty something years, we're able to
kind of get some closure and then right, hopefully his
brother and mother.
Speaker 2 (52:54):
Weren't completely traumatized from him. Yeah, and his sister too
hopefully forgot Yeah, because some psychiatric care and what is
she actually repressing.
Speaker 1 (53:05):
Well, it sounds like her life there probably wasn't.
Speaker 2 (53:08):
She was probably abused too.
Speaker 1 (53:10):
Yeah, it sounds like just based on the mental state
of David, I can't imagine what that was like.
Speaker 2 (53:20):
Yeah, growing up, whether.
Speaker 1 (53:22):
Or not that was how to do with his parents
or just the time or just him or what. But yeah,
kind of crazy. Well, guys, thank you so much for
hanging out with us today.
Speaker 2 (53:35):
Yeah. We always love it when you listen to our stuff. Yeah,
or you share videos of you listening to our stuff
while you're driving through the fog.
Speaker 1 (53:43):
Electro, We love you, Electrak, It's so funny.
Speaker 2 (53:49):
Yeah, if you have any case corrections, suggestions, if you
got those recipes laying around, I know I have some
that I still need to make, and I'm sorry. I
told Sara that was a maker some pumpkin bed and
I never did that.
Speaker 1 (54:00):
Stomach is goraling.
Speaker 2 (54:01):
I'm sorry, but we'll get around to them. And Yeah,
in the meantime, hit us up on the old Instagram a.
Speaker 1 (54:13):
Scream Dot and Dot Sugar dot.
Speaker 2 (54:15):
Podcast or on the old Facebook.
Speaker 1 (54:17):
A't Scream and Sugar, True Crime Coffee Hour, tick a Talk,
Scream Dot and Dot Sugar, or you can shoot us
an email that's Scream and Sugar Reno at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2 (54:28):
Thanks for listening and until next time, stay spooky, y'all.
Speaker 3 (54:34):
Bye bye bye.
Speaker 2 (54:39):
I'm just gonna stick with the y'all. I'm not doing
babies anymore.
Speaker 3 (54:43):
I'm just a little baby.
Speaker 4 (55:00):
Mmmmm.
Speaker 1 (55:14):
Rule Creek bruel or Browley Creek.
Speaker 2 (55:18):
Brule b r U l E Brule, Brule, Brules, rules, rules,
Rulesno Christy rule.
Speaker 1 (55:26):
Bill Bill
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