January 16, 2025 • 54 mins
This week on Scream and Sugar, we’re exploring the shocking case of Darren Mack, a prominent Reno businessman whose seemingly perfect life unraveled in a spiral of violence and betrayal. In 2006, amidst a bitter divorce and custody battle, Darren brutally murdered his estranged wife, Charla Mack, in their home. He then attempted to assassinate the family court judge overseeing their case, unleashing chaos and fear throughout the Reno community.
We’ll take you through the events leading up to this tragic day, the international manhunt that ended with Darren’s arrest in Mexico, and the twists and turns of the trial that followed. How did a successful and respected man reach such a breaking point?
Grab your favorite mug and join us as we sip on tasty beverages from Chrome Coffee Works Reno and dissect this chilling story. Don't forget to stay spooky, ya'll!
Notes:
Chrome Coffee Works Reno: https://www.instagram.com/chromecoffeeworks/
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/scream-and-sugar-true-crime-coffee-hour--6015946/support.
We’ll take you through the events leading up to this tragic day, the international manhunt that ended with Darren’s arrest in Mexico, and the twists and turns of the trial that followed. How did a successful and respected man reach such a breaking point?
Grab your favorite mug and join us as we sip on tasty beverages from Chrome Coffee Works Reno and dissect this chilling story. Don't forget to stay spooky, ya'll!
Notes:
Chrome Coffee Works Reno: https://www.instagram.com/chromecoffeeworks/
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/scream-and-sugar-true-crime-coffee-hour--6015946/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back, everyone to another episode of Scream and Sugar,
the podcast that delves into the darker set of humanity
while savoring a little sweetness on the side. I'm your host, Candace,
and I am Sahara, and today we're going to be
talking about the murder of Charla mac Hey. Sarah, Hey,
(00:54):
Candace starting things off right right in the news.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
I guess it's not really the new year for them.
They got an episode.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Before they did. They just got an episode yesterday. So anyway, hey, guys,
welcome to twenty twenty five. Mothers is kicking off and
being real weird already. I wish we had exact the sound.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
If I can find one, I will put with it.
Hell yeah, it'll be like.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
A yeah, that's already so crazy. And it's only what
the first, second, third week, I don't know, technically the
second week now, because it's the tenth. I just want
to send all of our love to La right now.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
It was horrendous fires that are just raging out of control,
absolutely devastating and so so so.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Sad, horrible. So all our love with our elly listeners
and anybody you know with family down there.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
It's exactly I hope you all got out safe and
just know we're thinking of you. And yeah, today, just
to segue into the episode, we went to Chrome Coffee.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Chrome Coffee which is where.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
The old CEC Coffee was, So it's on Pine Street
next to Pine State Biscuits and where the old Sizzle
Pie was. It's a really cute building. They readd it
really really well, all hand painted signs, which I love.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Their whole things like vintage right, yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Super super cute. So I'm gonna post up some pictures
of that. I of course got a Chai latte because
that's my shit. That's and it's it's yummy. I like it.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
It's very creamy Krema chat. We also got I got
an Americana what no, not that crazy, but and it's
mid it's mid you know, but I mean it's Americano guys.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Like sometimes it's hard to I don't know. As a
former Brista for like a short period of time, I
feel like it's very easy to bring in the espresso.
And unfortunately that happened today. That's okay, no shade because
what they had there, yeah, yeah, they we had already
(03:20):
covered this place. But Beloved Bakery has some pastries there
for your eating pleasure.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
And let me tell you my pleasure of eating beloved, based, beloved, basted, beloved, pasted,
My beloved bakery pastries is very high.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, got like a Danish with some cheese
and blue bars and that.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
And it's laminated.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Sahara says, it's very nicely laminated, a term that we've
learned from the Great British Bakeoff, yes, or the Great
British Baking Competition.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
The British.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
I always have it on in the background and I'm
like doing ship and it's just my favorite.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
I was never I'm not a good cook, let's just
put it that way. Not a good cook, not a
good baker. Damn. I learned a lot of terms watching
that show. I'll I'll put a don't play games with me, Candice.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
We also got this lovely little fluffy ass cinnamon sugar
and it's really dummy. So Harry doesn't tried it yet,
but I already took a bite out of it, and damn, girl,
I should probably take pictures of these.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
She pulled these motherfuckers out and I'm all, wow, those
look incredible. I'm taking bites. I'm like why are they
so good? She's like, they're from Beloved. I'm like, oh, okay,
we we love you, guys. I'm chrome about once a
week I wake up and ask Will to go get
me Beloved bakery pastries.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
What a man?
Speaker 2 (04:45):
He doesn't do it.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
I asked him, Hey, baby, you pick me up some
Beloved bakery.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Uh. Yeah, we'd be like, no.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
We need to lose weight the same boy.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
So it's super fucking cute in there. Check it out,
you guys and tell us what you think. Yeah, go
krumb and if you got any more, suggest Jolones. As
far as coffee shops go or little hole in the
wall pastry shops, let us know because there are so
many in Reno, I'm realizing. Yeah, and it's kind of
the best. It's love that the city is just like coffee. Please. Yes.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
That's the weirdest thing, too, is I feel like I
never really noticed before we started doing this, and now
I'm like all the time, I'm making like little mental lists.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Oh we've only like gone to the same coffee shop
like once or twice.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Yeah, and we could keep going back on Poppy because
I get Poppy.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
I'm my first love anyway.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
So today, Candice is taking us through a fantastic case
that is apparently local.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
It is, and it was also recommended by one of
our listeners. I at your show on your's eve. Sal
approached me and here was I love South too, Hi.
So he approached me and was like, my friend hit
me up and was like, when are those damn girls
going to do the case that I suggested? I suggested it,
he suggested it back in July fifteenth. July fifteenth, Oh,
(06:13):
but I was still in Europe at that point. So
blame it on me. Blame it on me, me, blame
on me. So, Jeff, thank you for being an earwig
in Sal's ear, and thank you Sal for being like, hey, bitch,
you guys still haven't covered this case. Today we're going
to be talking about the brutal murder of Charlotte Mack
(06:36):
by her estranged husband Darren Mack.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Oh okay, I've never even heard of this one.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Yeah, this is a Reno case, and so I'll probably
just start with giving some backstory about motherfuckering Darren. Darren
Roy Mack, who was born January thirty first, nineteen sixty
one in Rino, Nevada, grew up in a wealthy family.
So his parents owned Palace Jewelry and Loan. The pawn
(07:03):
shop that's on Virginia Street that I literally just drove by.
It is still open. I don't know if it's still
ran by the macfamily, but it's a pretty gigantic pawn
shop and they were extremely profitable, so they were like multimillionaires.
And so this is the kind of lifestyle that Darren
was born into. He graduated from Reno High School and
(07:26):
from what Andy and Jessica were saying, he was like
this preppy jock dude. He was on the baseball team,
very great athlete, but kind of ran with this crowd
that were like those fucking what did we called him
for the Amarillo, Texas case, the white hats. Yeah, so
they were the jockey group that could pretty much get
away with murder. Yep, rich boy, I know, rich boy jocks.
(07:50):
He drove nice cars. He attended Reno High School. He
would get in trouble, he had an and this group
that he would was hanging out with, they could chime
their way out of any situation. So he really had never.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Felt like repercussion exact thing.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
He'd always gotten away with whatever he was doing. He
graduates from Reno High School and goes on to attend
the University of Nevada Reno on a baseball scholarship and
starts to take part in working for the Mac family business,
so Palace Jewelry and Loan. So he becomes a part
(08:29):
owner of Palace Jewelry and Loan. He's like him and
one other person are the sole owners. His parents retire,
moved to Pensacle of Florida, and they would fly back periodically.
His dad had his own private little plane. They would
fly back periodically to check on the business and visit
with the family. And unfortunately, on one of these trips,
(08:50):
his dad is flying his plane by himself and his
mom Joan and her parents decide to drive back up
instead of flying. I don't think it could fit for
people or something like to that, okay degree, And so
unfortunately his dad gets caught in like the a turbulence
(09:11):
wave behind another commercial jet liner and crashes his plane
and dies on impact. Oh my god, making Darren one
of the soul owners of Palace Jewelry alone. He has
another brother, there's not much that about him. His name
is Landon Mac. He's a younger brother and I think
(09:32):
he kind of separated from the family early on, so
he's not involved.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
You know, my friend Brittany has a dog named land and.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
I have a brother named Landon.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Do you it's the cutest name ever? Face not your
brother's the dogs.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
So Darren it takes over this company and he goes
in and he's this pompous prick is what it sounds
like to me. He takes every employee into his office
and like he takes them in individually, one at a time,
and tells them, I'm the new owner. Blah, you're not
(10:15):
going to go buy what my dad and not how
my dad was running the business. You're going to go
buy how I'm running the business now. He does this,
and then he says he's gonna he fires all of
them essentially and says, I'm just going to hire my
own staff. I don't think it's going to work out
with you guys, and some of them have been there
for over a decade. As they're getting to the door
to leave all of these employees that he had just fired,
(10:38):
he stops them and says, Okay, now I'm going to
hire you all back on as my staff. So it's
like this big power play exactly.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
So he starts going to these business meetings like success
workshops basically these business looks, the business success workshops, and
he has all of his employees attend them as well,
and by all intents and purposes, he does start becoming
like a lucrative member of the community. And he is
(11:10):
basically has an annual income of five hundred thousand dollars
a year and a networth of nine point four million
dollars while the mid two thousands.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
That's quite a bit of money.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Yes, he was also involved in business politically as well,
and he founded the Nevada Ponbreaker Association as well as
he engaged in other local civic activities.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Oh, I didn't realize I needed an association.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Everything needs an association. They helped him meet together and
discuss the pricing and all that too, to make sure
that it's fair across the board. In nineteen eighty six,
Darren Mack had married Deborah Ashlock. She was eighteen when
they met and he was twenty four, so there was
six age age graps. She was fresh out of high
school and they end up having a son and daughter together. Okay,
(12:04):
this was already his second marriage. I don't know what
his first marriage is like because they don't have any
information on it, but apparently he had married someone and
then quickly divorced them, and then he married Deborah Ashlock
like very quickly. After this, their relationship was very tumultuous,
and apparently Debbie was having an affair with her professor.
(12:27):
She was attending the community college here. I don't know
if it was Tucky Medicsman community College, but she was
getting into psychology and her and her psychology professor ended
up having an affair, and she filed for divorce in
nineteen ninety one and then went on to marry this
professor within the year of her being divorced from Darren.
(12:50):
Debbie Debbie, Deborah, I'm gonna call her Debbie, Okay.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
So Darren has a first wife, divorces her Mary's Debbie
has two children, has two children, and then in ninety one,
Debbie divorces Darren.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Leaves him for her professors, her psychology professor.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Oh scandalous.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
And during this whole time, he's still he's running the
Palace Jewelry alone and he's becoming a very successful businessman.
She ends up filing for divorce and getting child support
obviously for her two kids. And they keep going, they
keep having this very rocky these divorce proceedings, trying to
(13:27):
get custody of the kids. She wants full custody of
both of their kids and only for Darren to have
like supervised visits or only have them on like the weekends.
And Darren's not fucking cool with this.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Okay, he wants his kids.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
He wants his kids. Is it a control a play
for control? Does he love his kids?
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Does he not want to pay child support or not?
Speaker 1 (13:48):
He doesn't want to pay child support, And this is
the big thing. He then goes down to La and
attends the Landmark Association. And so what this association is
is that they'd taken the brightest and most beautiful people
and hold these workshops to butter themselves to become like
(14:09):
the elite few. And this is where he meets Charla Samsel.
And now I'm gonna give a little bit of backsworm Charla.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Okay, yeah, let's go.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
So Charlotte was born and raised in California. Her parents
had divorced by the time she was about eight. She
lived with her mom and her brother, mostly in LA
Her dad moved to Reno. I guess her like upbringing
was very rocky, so she was moving around place to
place and at Eventually she did move to Reno for
(14:46):
a little bit and stayed with her dad, but she
hated it here. She she was running with the at crowd,
and so she was sent back to California, where she
ends up in La And she is an aspiring actor,
absolutely gorgeous. I'll post pictures. Obviously, she doesn't land on
(15:06):
a lot of roles though. She gets up bright and
early to go to these casting calls and isn't making
any headway with it. So she gets a job like
you do, as a waitress. So she's waiting tables and
one of these days that she's waiting tables lo and
behold sitting at one of her booths is Arnold Schwarzenegger.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
What Arnold get.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
To the job? Get down? So it's said that they
dated casually for about two years at the same time
he was engaged.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
And married, allegedly supposedly.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
After the fact, like they were still seeing each other casually,
and he had set to her well, allegedly supposedly, this
is what her family set to reporters. He had said that, well,
it's a very European thing to be kind of casual
about these things, like, of course you have your wife
at home, but you can have your mistresses on the side, supposedly,
and would throw that out there, please don't assume me arms.
(16:04):
Oh my god. And what kind of ended their relationship is.
Charlotte asked Arnold if he could potentially give give her
an end in the acting community, like if he could
get her role on one of these films that he
was working on. He's a nope, girl by and he left,
(16:26):
and he left and basically ghosted her.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Holy shit, Charla, that's terrible, I.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Know, poor baby. She does land a role in the
nineteen ninety two film Poison IVY starring Drew Barbymon. She has,
I believe, like a couple of wines. She's supposed to
be an orderly in the hospital, but she gets so
nervous when it comes time to say her lines that
they just end up cutting her from the movie, like
(16:53):
I think you see her for a second, but she
doesn't have any speaking lines. She was also in the
nineteen eighty seven film Heaven. It's like a documentary and
it asks people about their beliefs concerning the apter life, which.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Is okay of excuse me, but have you seen the
cover of it?
Speaker 1 (17:09):
I loves I you know that?
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Yeah, oh my god, it's so cool. Please post a
picture of this just separately that just says heaven a film,
I love it? Holy shit? All right, cool?
Speaker 1 (17:23):
And she has an interview on that. But other than that,
she's not doing well as financially, she's just she's struggling, struggling,
and this is not the life she wants for herself.
(17:48):
In walks Darren Mack at one of these Landmark Association
meetings and they hit it off immediately. Darren's kind of
beefy jockey dude. Obviously he's not bad looking. He's not cute,
but he's not bad looking. Well, and he's rich and
(18:08):
he's filthy rich, like at this point, yes, filthy rich.
And he's also dealing with the divorce and like custody
issues with his kids, and she like they get to
talking and getting to know, like start getting to know
each other and start dating, and from what she sees,
he's this loyal man that just wants, you know, wants
(18:31):
to be in his kids lives. Yeah, and he right
away starts telling her like he wants to get married,
and that is like one of his big goals because
this Landmark association, they you have to set out these
goals for yourself. And her whole thing is like she's
there to teach people how to count calories and how
(18:51):
to like basically be skinny, because you can't be in
the elite if you're a fat hoe.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Oh no, I guess I'm out.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
I'm out too. So they start dating and then she
moves to Reno to be with him, to be with him. Yes,
they get married in nineteen ninety five, but before all this,
he puts up this prenuptial agreement and basically excludes her
(19:18):
from having any steak in the palm chop, any steak
in their future businesses, any steak in like the houses
that they buy together. So if they do get divorced,
she gets nothing.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Oh man, what this He really traps her there.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Yeah, and so she's like, well, fuck no, and they
start fighting like NonStop.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
She said no, good for her, she said, fuck.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
You no, like that is a big red flag for me.
I'm sorry, but I don't have anything. Why would I
know You've already been divorced twice.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Yeah, that's crazy.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
And so she ends up getting pregnant before they get married,
and this kind of he he rips up the prenuptial
agreement very dramatically, and it's like, oh, fine, we don't
have to have the prenup I love you that much.
And he's very excited about her having the baby. After
they get married, everything seems like it's going pretty well,
(20:16):
except by the time she's like eight and a half
months pregnant, he proposes that they start swinging after she
has the baby.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
What the fuck?
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Yeah, in a monogamous relationship, and why the fuck do
you get married? I don't want to be in a
monograms pregnant's pregnant and has nowhere to go weird.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Oh my god, can you imagine you're eight and a
half months pregnant and this guy says that to you.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
And he's basically like, either that or we're gonna get
a divorce. Like, if you're not cool with it and
we're getting a divorce, ain't half months pregnant? It's O great,
damn sorry. Charlotte's just like fuck. But she's also very open.
She's very actually like liberal liberal okay, So she's like okay,
(21:04):
like all right, cool, I don't want to raise this
baby upy myself. And he had actually slipped in the
prenup into the paperwork for when they got married.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
So done, Yeah, that sneaky little fuck.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
She was just like, it was just like some other
paperwork captive signed for the like for our marriage license.
Read don't sign anything before you read it.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Don't trust your partner.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Ill just like read he tries at least fucking scan
over it and make sure it's like, you know, what
you're signing is what they say you're signing, because he
probably was like, oh, yeah, it's not a big deal, baby,
just like it is the final She did not know
about the prenup. Her signature was on it. She did
not know about it.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
That poor thing.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Dude, do do do do do what a fucker?
Speaker 2 (21:53):
No kidding.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
So they start going off on these lavish swinging excursions
to where they will go to like resorts. They keep
their daughter Erica stays with the grandma Joan back in Reno,
and then they'll go to like these fucking thousand dollars
a night swinger resorts holy shit, for like a week.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
And there was one time where they were down in
Las Vegas and he told Charlie that he had to
have a meeting with somebody, and she confided in one
of her friends that she thinks that maybe he was
trying to hire a hitman to murdered.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Shut the fuck up.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
Yeah, but that's all inconclusive, like, there's no proof of that.
But that's what supposedly he was trying to do at
this casino in Las Vegas.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
What the fuck, dude.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Yeah, because he didn't want to pay child support. He
wanted full custody of the kids. He didn't want to
pay child support, and he wanted to have sex with
anyone he wanted to.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
That's crazy.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Yeah, So they're swinging. They're swinging there, having a good
old time party, but Charlotte's kind of over it. They
start taking well, okay, we'll back that up a little bit.
They get to this resort and are at their first
swingers event called The Hedonist Too.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
The Hedonist Too. Yeah, Okay, why does this sound like
a gdlawnwar.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
I'm so sorry he's talking about the nineties, right, Oh
my god. Yeah, and he starts taking well, I'm assuming
they both start taking ecstasy because that helps you loose
enough a little shit. I'm went in ecstasy one time,
so his he starts taking ecstasy though more than just recreationally.
And he's also seeing these people that have like Greek
(23:51):
god status bodies, and he's feeling a little self conscious
about himself. So he gets real big into bodybuilding, okay,
and so he's he buys all this gym equipment to
put into their fucking multimillion dollar home, and they start
like eating really healthily. But he's also doing steroids and
he's still doing ecstasy. I think someone said he did
(24:12):
ecstasy over one hundred times, which is fucking not great
for your brain.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Oh, it is so bad for your brain.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
He's just burnt a hole straight through his dome.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Oh no.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
And he's doing steroids and he's doing steroids, and then
he starts having performance issues because he's also taking GHB,
the date rape jeb drug to help him loosen up
at these parties, which doesn't make any sense to me.
I don't know if there's a small enough dose that
you can take where there's gotta be right. Yeah, So
he starts having performance issues as.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Well, which I'm sure adds to the insecurity.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
And get it up. So he starts taking fucking viagra
on top of all of this. Oh my god, it's
gotta who knows what. He'll probably cocaine because it's the
fucking nineties, right, wow, and he's rich.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
That's quite the cocktail.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
That's quite a fucking cocktail. And get it at one
of these cock Sorry sorry, sorry sorry, one of these
visits to Las Vegas. They're leaving one of these sex
clubs and Darren starts having like slurred speech and he's
(25:17):
acting really off and Charlotte's like, oh fuck, something's wrong.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
A little too much GHB and his X.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
So they get into a cab and she takes them
to an emergency room where he is diagnosed with spinal meningitis.
Oh fuck, and he goes into a coma for three days.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Holy shit, meningitis and his spinal column vinyl.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
Oh what is that?
Speaker 2 (25:42):
That's scariest fuck. Meningitis So it's an Meningitis is the
inflammation of tissues surrounding the brain and spinal cord. So
it's inflammation.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Would this be caused by his drug use?
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Let's google, because I don't want to give therng of information,
but I feel like I think it could be caused
from any sort of open wound, like a bacteria getting
in there, or my first thought was actually that maybe
something he was snorting.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Oh yeah, yeah, go straight into your brain. Several drugs
can induce men ningitas. Oh it's interesting, great, I know me.
I'm like, well, if he's taking steroids, you have to
shoot him up exactly. So it's probably from an infected
wound with that or like you said, something that he's
taking nasally. And it can also happen from taking antibiotics.
(26:28):
Did you know that, like certain antibiotics can cause spidal meningitis.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
What the fuck? Yeah, that's fucking crazy. So he ended
up with spidal min ningitis.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Spider man angitis. He's in a coma for three days
before he comes out of it, and he's still he's
there for several more days until they clear him to
be safe to travel back to Reno Holy shit, where
then he is put into intensive care until he's able
to leave. Basically, so a couple of weeks with his illness,
and he says, because of this near death experience, he's
(27:04):
had the epiphany that he wants to start swinging more.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Like before he does, he wants to sleep with like
a thousand people or something.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Something to that degree. But he wants to move in
sexual partners to their mansion with their kid.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Okay, so to him, it's more like a polly ish,
polish thing.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Maybe he just wants people to be honest. He wants
to be basically the fucking he wants a harem.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Yes, oh okay, I see he.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Was like a playboy bunny Ranch essentially is what? Because
I'm sure he doesn't want to move in sex partners
from Keefner exactly. And he talks about moving her out
into her own apartment and having like they they he
goes back and forth about it because she's like, absolutely
fucking not. And then he's like, well, you can leave
and you can go, and I'll pay for this apartment,
(27:56):
but you have to be at my beck and call
for when I want sex, and you can't have sex
with anyone else. But I'm going to have all these
people at the house and I won't do it in
front of Erica.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
But well, Erica, he wants Erica to stay at the house.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
No he doesn't.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Oh okay, I was like Jesus Christ.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
He's like, if when they're over, that's not gonna happen
in front of their kid. But this is like his thing.
He wants to be Hugh Heffner, he wants the girls
next door thing he wants Yep, he wants it all.
I think he's something in his brain sounds like insecurity
to me. Yeah, something, I don't know. Wow, it got
a complex maybe yeh, thinking that you know, he should
(28:34):
have all of these women well and just there to
have sex with whenever he wants, right, But he's also
having I don't know the cocktail that he's taking because
he can't get it up. I'm just like, bro, you
need to fucking reevaluate your priorities, right. And Charlotte says
that his personality kind of changed after this spinal meningitis,
(28:58):
and they had had instances, but they would get into
big bites and they were both physically abusive towards each
other and verbally abusive towards each other. Not saying that
she deserved what happened to her, but it just seemed
like it was a very very toxic relationship. I was
getting more and more toxic. And they end up going
to marriage counseling and the counselor kind of works it
(29:22):
out to where she's like, Darren, wouldn't it make more sense?
For you to get your own apartment and for Charlotte
to stay at the house because at this point, Charlotte's
mom is living in their guest house and her dad
is helping run the pawn shops eBay business, so he's
entangled both of her parents in this. Oh my god,
(29:42):
they're all reliant on him financially and for housing. So
it's just Charlotte can't leave, like, she feels very trapped,
and she finally like it just gets so bad that
they both agree that they should just separate. Oh and
(30:05):
so they start going to the courthouse to work with
family Court Judge Weller Chuck Weller. Basically he wants to
settle it outside of court. Chuck Judge Chuck Weller is like,
can you just come to like an agreement between the
two of you to keep it out of like the
courthouse and to like, you know, make it not so
difficult on your children, like like a mediator kind of Yeah, exactly,
(30:28):
And he's done this successfully with a lot of other cases,
so he's just like hoping that this will be a
good solution for them, but it's not because Darren doesn't
want to fucking pay child's apart. He doesn't want to
have to pay any type of alimony. Alimony to Charla.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
He also snuck in a freaking prenup.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
He's snuck in the prenup. And so he's just like,
he's making forty thousand dollars a month.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
And that's double my annual pay.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
I know, fucking same.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
He's like, what a life. Maybe should get into the
palm drop business.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
What the fuck?
Speaker 4 (31:02):
Fuck.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Charlotte and Erica are living at the mansion and Darren
is living in his apartment. Charlotte doesn't make any money, right,
so he's not paying the bills, mortgage or utilities. One Christmas,
I guess the power had just gotten shut off and
Charlotte and Erica Christmas. Yes, what a douche they Charlotte
(31:25):
makes it out, so they're pretending they're camping, so she's
trying to make it fun and still a good experience
for her daughter, which I'm like, oh, what a mom.
So they have sleeping bags, they're in front of a
fireplace with a fire going, and they're roasting marshmallows and
just trying to get through it. They go back into court.
Judge Weller is pissed that he would do this to
(31:47):
his daughter daughter, Yeah, and Sharla, And he says, you
know what, dude, you need to pay ten thousand dollars
a month, so a quarter of your monthly income as
well as eight hundred dollars a month for child support.
To Charlot is a lot. Yeah, but I assume, like
with the utilities and the mortgage and like having to
(32:09):
have a gardener and all this other shit that you
have to have with a big ass house like that,
hundred probably it was probably more like two thousand dollars.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
One hundred and twenty thousand dollars a year. Yeah, I
mean he has He's worth a lot.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
He has the money. Yeah, he instead of paying this
money to Sharla, he steps down as the owner from
Palace Jewelry and Loan, and in Staid says that he's
only a sales associate, so he's only making five thousand
a month, which I'm so like, fuck, that's a lot
of money. Maybe she like damn okay, And I mean
(32:46):
he's so slippery, so he's dodging his fucking payments. Yep, clearly,
and he still has all this fucking money. Charlotte and
Darren both request restraining orders. Against each other. Bitch, you
have a kid together, both of you, not her specifically.
I'm not saying bitch to just bitch general bitch. Bitches,
(33:09):
you have a child like you should be trying to
be amicable and civil about this, right right. So the
(33:31):
judge has already had cases like this before where the
parents are so wrapped up in their own shit that
they don't take this into consideration. So what the deal
is is that one of them, on the day that
they're supposed to switch off with Erica, one of them
will drop her off at school in the morning, and
then the other one's supposed to go and pick her
up at night to do the arrangement. That way, they
(33:54):
don't see each other at all. Right, But I'm like
that's pretty smart. Unfortunately, on June twelfth, two thousand and six,
Charla school is out, so it's summer break. Charlotta is
set to drop off Erica with Darren at his apartment.
(34:15):
Darren has a roommate at this point. His name is Dan.
Dan for all of this, from what I can tell,
was a pretty good, pretty good guy and helped take
care of Erica okay, and was kind of a mediator
between Charla and Darren they were ever in the same
room type thing, which they weren't supposed to be anyway.
Charlotte's just supposed to drop off Erica. She's just like
(34:38):
basically waves from the window to say like, Okay, she's here,
she's got her stuff. Bye, I see you next week.
Darren says, oh wait, no, I have something for you
in the garage that that is either Erica's or Charlotte's.
I don't know which one it was, they don't say.
He kind of lures her into the garage though, with
the premise of I have something for you to pick
(34:59):
up and I need you to come into the garage
to grab it kind of thing. So he's like, hey,
you take Erica upstairs. So he lures her into the garage,
and so what Darren tells prosecutors later is that they
got into an argument and Charlotte pushes Darren over, which
(35:23):
remember he's bodybuilding, buff dude, and I don't think she's
more than a buck thirty soak, and we pushes him
to the ground. The gun that he was carrying on
his person falls out of his pocket, which I'm like,
what do you have it in your sweat your park pocket?
You fucking jackass anyway, falls to the ground. They struggle
for it. Charlotte grabs the gun, points it out Darren
(35:44):
and pulls the trigger and it misfires.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
Yeah, very sounds sounds plausible and sounds likely self defense.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
Darren says he then used the knife to slash and
stab her multiple times.
Speaker 4 (36:00):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
He cuts his hand somehow. Dan sees him his like,
Dan has a big like fucking pyrenees. I don't know
if it's like a pipull or some some sort of
fucking big dog. And he hears the dog like going loco,
and I there's probably I think there's a doggy door
in the garage or something. So the dog gets into
the garage is freaking out. So Dan lets him into
(36:21):
the house and he's covered in blood. Oh god, Darren
has his hand wrapped at the rag that he's using
is covered in blood. The dog is covered in blood.
And Dan's like, Okay, I need to get Erica the
fuck out of here. He's like, He's like, I'm going
to take her to Jones her Grandma's what the fuck?
And Darren's like, oh yeah, don't worry about it, like whatever,
(36:44):
and he leaves Dan. They both leave. They all leave
except for Charlotte.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
Yeah, well clearly, and Charlotte's not going anywhere.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
He fucking Darren. He has a he has rented a
silver Floord Explorer, and he drives to a parking garage
that's near the downtown courthouse Okay, where Judge Weller is at.
He has just gotten done with one of his proceedings,
so he's disturbing. He's taking off his robe, he's in
front of one of the windows. He's straightening his bookshelf,
and his secretary is there like talking with him casually,
(37:13):
and all of a sudden they hear this loud pop
and see a flash of light. Glass shatters, another pop,
and Judge Weeller has been shot in the chest twice.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
Yeah, and he doesn't realize that it's happened to him
at first. He's kind of just like, what the fuck
was that? And the secretary thinks a light bulb had
like exploded, so she's like, oh, he's being fucking dramatic.
He's like, no, I need you to call my family
right now and tell them to get out of the
house and get themselves somewhere safe because he thinks someone
might be coming after him as well.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
So he's been shot in the chest twice. Is he's
but he's still like cognizant, like functioning. He is conscious.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
Barely, Yeah, he is teetering on the edge of unconsciousness.
He's able to stay awake until the paramedics arrive. And
then the swat team kind of shuts down that whole
block and tries to figure out who the fuck did
this because Chuck Weller obviously Judge Weller is a family
court judge, so he's probably proceeded a lot over a
lot of these cases and probably had a lot of
(38:11):
guys pissed off at him for how much alimony they
have to pay their ex wives. But they ask him,
is there anyone in particular that you've had a case
with recently that you think would attempt your like put
an attempt on your life, And he says Darryl Mack
so remembers the mac part, but he gets the first
name wrong at the same time. So Darren leaves, he
(38:34):
flees the area. He goes to a Starbucks, which I
wander hips the one down down its Ray goes to Starbucks,
calls his buddy Dan and he's like, I want you
to bring Erica down here. I want to see her
one more time. Oh god, And Darren does d D
fucking texts her down. Man. Darren buys Erica a lemon
bar and gets himself a coffee, and it's basically like,
(38:55):
I have to go away for a while. Just know
that I love you and don't forget me. And then
he fucking takes off. I think it's by like two
thirty in the afternoon. He is out of Remow and
driving to Mexico.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
Of course he is.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
He gets across the border.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
Fine, Wow, Oh he made it.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
Yes, he made it across the border by midnight. I
want to say, which is It's a long house drive,
so he was booking it.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
Two to midnight is like ten hours. So in ten
hours he's crossing the border.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
Wow, ten hours, he's crossing the border. And Dan had
called the He had called nine one one and been like, Hey,
I'm seeing all this shit happening on the news. I'm
pretty sure it was my buddy Darren, and I'm pretty
sure something happened to his wife. Here's our address. They
didn't take it seriously. They thought it was like a
false tip.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
He calls them back again.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
And Reno didn't take it seriously. So surprised, he calls.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
Them back again and they're like, hey, Darren Mack and
they're like, oh, they put it two or two together,
Daryl Mac Darren Mack and they're like, oh shit, okay,
So they rush over to his apartment. They pry open
the garage door and they find the deceased body of Charla.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
Charla, poor thing, dude.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
She'd been Okay, I'm gonna go ahead and give a
trigger warning, which I probably should have already done, dun
because it's a little gory. But she had been slashed
and stabbed, and her throat had been slit so deeply
that her head was almost decapitated. Right, So self defense, yeah,
I'm sure, very fucking unlikely.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
Seems seems pretty passionate to me.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
Very fucking passionate, almost addicted to capitting ahead. I don't
know how hard that is, but it can't be easy.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
That's a lot of slashes with a knife. Well, and
you do imagine that if he stabbed her a bunch
of times, it'd probably be pretty dull by then.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
Right, right, I don't know if he slashed her, like
we don't know if he cut her throat first and
then stabbed her in a fit of passionate rage. But wow,
his daughter's upstairs. That's what pisses me off the most.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
Yeah, that's crazy.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
Yeah. Anyway, he evades capture for over eleven days. He
ends up in Porta Viada, which I love Portata me too,
at a swingers resort.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
Oh my god, this guy he.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
Has forty thousand dollars in cash on him. He ditches
the silver Ford Escort and yeah he's just like still
just doing his thing live and launch. Wow, dude, but
he can't speak Spanish, so he sticks out like a
sore thumb, like he's trying. Like if he even were
to try to go more into the interior, like that
(41:36):
was my rural areas to kind of evade capture, probably
would have been more smart, but smarter.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Yeah, say, Porta Verta is pretty touristy.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
It's very touristy. I stuck love it there.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
Yeah, the resorts are freaking amazing.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Let's go. Uh So, spoiler alert, Judge Weller does not die.
He survives two guns shot wounds. So, Darren, there's like
a full scale investigation launched by the FBI. They kind
of have the inkling that he's down in Mexico. So
the Mexican government as well as the FBI are working
(42:12):
to find him, and they do. They extra died him
back to the United States and back to Reno. His
sentencing starts a year later. He tries to plead insanity.
And the reason why he tries to plead insanity is
because he was on this TV or was it like
a radio talk show or some shit with this like
super libertarian dude that they have been talking about kind
(42:37):
of his lifestyle and like his business and how he's
very like very wealthy, and how he got to where
he was basically, and they're having like a sidebar conversation afterwards,
but they're still rolling the tape, so it's still caught
on tape. The radio host is basically like, oh, yeah,
you know, like it's kind of crazy. You can probably
(42:57):
murder your wife and plead insanity and get out and
seven and not have to pay that child support or
that alimony.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
And so you kind of see where it he got
his idea. And then immediately after this show, after recording's done,
he goes and he starts writing basically his manifesto and
it's like he's getting all of these guns, and he's like,
these are the steps that I need to take. And
at the very end it says end to problem, oh much,
(43:26):
we as referring to Charlote, what a douche. At a
preliminary hearing on August thirty, two thousand and six, Max
was held over for a trial. His defense attorneys tried
to seek a mental competency evaluation for him, and on
September eleventh, the prosecutor announced they were not going to
seek a death penalty in this case.
Speaker 2 (43:47):
Interesting.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
He pleaded not guilty at an arraignment on September thirteenth,
and then on the fourth, attorney Scott Freeman tried to
get Max's attempted murder of the judge charge dropped, which
boy no, not happening any His trial was then set
for a year later, on October first, two thousand and seven. So,
(44:10):
following a discussion about these criminal cases, on October thirteenth,
Judge J. Charles Thompson disqualified the entire Washer County bench
from all civil cases against mac Charlotte, Max's estate and
attorneys on behalf of Erica filed civil cases for damages
in the wrongful death of Charlotte. So they're like, you
are going to fucking pay for what you did to
(44:31):
this girl's fucking mother.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
Yeah, and her like main caregiver.
Speaker 1 (44:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
Doe.
Speaker 1 (44:36):
Trials then moved to Las Vegas, where Clark County District
Judge Douglas Herndon was appointed to the case. In fifth
two thousand and seven, Mac pleaded a guilty to the
first degree murder of his ex wife and entered an
Alfred plea to the attempted murder charge of Judge Weller.
Speaker 2 (44:52):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
An alford plea basically is a guilty plea in a
criminal court where the defendant in a criminal case does
not admit to the criminal act and asserts his innocence,
but still accepts the imposition of the sentence because they're
likely to be found guilty.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
Right, It's like a new contest almost right right.
Speaker 1 (45:12):
Just before the trial was to begin, in exchange for
a recommendation by the prosecutor for life in prison and
with pearl after twenty years, so he had the possibility
of parole in twenty years.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
What the fuck?
Speaker 1 (45:22):
Judge was not bound by the sentencing recommendation, and Max
said during the plea, I do understand right now in
my state of mind that shooting at the judiciary is
not a proper form of political redress.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
What the fuck, sir?
Speaker 1 (45:38):
He later fired that defense attorney, his set of attorneys,
he had a couple of them, and hired a new
defense attorney, William Rutsis, and he tried to withdraw those
pleas of guilty for the offered plea and for the
killing of his wife because he goes with that story
that I had told you initially where they had struggled,
(46:00):
Charlotte has slushed him and it was in self defense
because she had grabbed the gun and pulled the trigger.
He says that the reason why they're not able to
find the gun with fingerprint evidence from Charlotte is because
he disposed of it on his way to the courthouse
to shoot Judge Weller, and the gun has never been
found because it doesn't exist, because it doesn't exist all
(46:23):
allegedly Supposedly there was probably from the pawn shop, and
then he probably probably just gave it to someone because
we don't, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
Do you we know what he shot at the judge
with I can look that up for you. I assuming
it's a type of it, it was a sniper rifle. Yeah,
and because I mean to get him from outside a window.
Speaker 1 (46:42):
Right and twice in the chest.
Speaker 2 (46:43):
I mean also pretty good aim, right, crazy.
Speaker 1 (46:46):
And that this is like something that gets brought up
later when his oldest son is trying to believe his
name is Corey is trying to back his father and
say that this was in self defense and that his
father was an expert marksman. He was just trying to
make a point and he could have killed Judge Weller
if he wanted to. I'm just like, that doesn't make
(47:08):
it okay.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
Right, I'll be honest. I think he used all of
his in the test.
Speaker 1 (47:15):
Yeah, twice. That is where all of your like, that's
where your heart is, That's where a lot of your
main art like organs are. But clearly he was trying
to kill this an attempted murders I think so it
was too like I think so too. Under the terms
of the plea agreement, Herndon sentenced Mack to life in
prison for murdering his wife, so the first degree murder
(47:35):
of Charlotte, and for the attempted murder of Judge Weller
with a deadly weapon and handsoment. So he had a
scope on that bad boy. She's sentenced Mac to the
maximum of forty years, which I think is crazy, with
a parole eligibility after sixteen years. So those two combound
twenty with sixteen.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
So there were to be served consecutively.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
Consecutively, well until he's able to apply.
Speaker 2 (47:58):
For parole consecutively means one after the other.
Speaker 1 (48:02):
Yeah, so thirty six years. He was sentenced to life
and sentenced to forty years, but he was also eligible
for parole after twenty years in the case of Charlotte
Mack and sixteen years for the attempted murder of.
Speaker 2 (48:15):
That's still wild that he was ever given.
Speaker 1 (48:17):
So thirty six years. On March eighteenth, two thousand and eight,
the Washa County Juror delivered a five hundred and ninety
million dollar settlement against Mac and the wrongful death's lawsuit
of his wife, Charlotte. Five hundred and sixty million dollars
was awarded to the couple's young daughter, Erica, with the
remainder to go to his wife's estate. I believe he's
(48:41):
still fucking alive.
Speaker 2 (48:43):
I'm still in prison. I would hope.
Speaker 1 (48:45):
Well, yeah, because he's eligible those twenty eight so twenty
six years. That would be twenty forty four, so he
still got another twenty years without the possibility of parole.
Speaker 2 (48:55):
He is in Lovelock Correctional Center, still alive, still kicking.
Speaker 1 (49:00):
Still trying to appeal this case and say that it
was in self defense.
Speaker 2 (49:04):
So it turned. It looks like according to this he
will be up for parole in when he's eighty two.
So maybe he'll be dead by then.
Speaker 1 (49:12):
Probably not. I feel like he's I don't know, you
living out of spite right now.
Speaker 2 (49:16):
I know, I feel like you can't really like fuck
with your body like that and expect to live a
long time.
Speaker 1 (49:21):
Well, he was not able to do it. Now, maybe
it's true, maybe all of this got him out of
doing all the all the bad shit. Yeah, the excess
of drugging. Didn't say anything about him drinking a lot,
so it was mostly just drugs.
Speaker 2 (49:33):
Well, it makes you wonder like if he hadn't started
like obviously he's always had that, you know, there's no
real consequences for me attitude. But it makes you wonder
like if he hadn't started mixing all that stuff and
fucking with his brain as bad as he did.
Speaker 1 (49:47):
It hadn't gotten the spinal man ningitis.
Speaker 2 (49:50):
Yeah, and all obviously completely depleted all of his dopamine
reserves and burned a hole in his brain. Like, would
this have happened? Because at what point do you say
to yourself, you know what, I'm going to viciously murder
the mother of my child.
Speaker 1 (50:04):
Lure her into the garage while my daughter is home.
I am viciously murdered her.
Speaker 2 (50:08):
Yeah, and then go shoot a federal court.
Speaker 1 (50:10):
Yeah, so there's planning involved.
Speaker 2 (50:13):
Or a state court judge.
Speaker 1 (50:14):
Yeah, yeah, there was planning involved. So his plea for
insanity was thrown out the window.
Speaker 2 (50:18):
Oh yeah, absolutely, I mean, he was clearly a sound mind.
He knew what he did was wrong. He met with
his daughter, he knew he was going down, and he
fled to Mexico and he fled, absolutely so, And that
whole fucking self defense thing.
Speaker 1 (50:30):
Just pushed me and trying to shoot me, and the
gun didn't go off, so Ice almost decapitated her.
Speaker 2 (50:38):
Right, And like if the gun didn't go off, then
how is it self defense at that point? King? You
just if the gun's not working.
Speaker 1 (50:45):
Well, he felt like she was still trying, that she
was still try to continue shooting. Maybe Okay, I don't know,
but Anywayen, you got rid of the gun too, so
you got rid of any of your evidence for a case.
Speaker 2 (50:54):
I'm not sure if this is true, but my understanding
is if you try to pull the trigger in it
and it misfires, you still have gun residue on your hands.
Speaker 1 (51:00):
Interesting. I don't know that.
Speaker 2 (51:01):
I don't I better double before the public. Man, I'm
probably on some sort of watch list for these questions. Okay, Yes,
even if a gun misfires will leave a small amount
of residue on the shooter's hands, potentially on the gun.
Speaker 1 (51:15):
Yeah, so they could have totally.
Speaker 2 (51:18):
But I mean, Na Nevada and.
Speaker 1 (51:22):
Not much going on there, and don't trust him.
Speaker 2 (51:27):
Right, Well, that was a fucking crazy episode, Candice.
Speaker 1 (51:29):
Right right here in Reno, Nevadie Powerace, Jewelry and Alone
is still open. I've been there before. It's pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (51:35):
I almost feel like we should go there now, let's
take a picture.
Speaker 1 (51:38):
We can totally go. But yeah, that's a crazy case.
Thank you again Jeff for recommending that. He also sent
to over a picture of like where Darren Mack shot
at the courthouse, so.
Speaker 2 (51:50):
Yeah, we'll include that. If there he circled the areas
for us. So thank you, Jeff, We appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (51:55):
Thanks for waiting an entire happy year to have your
case heard. I'll try to go back and if you
guys want to resend them to me, please do. But
I'll try to go back through our social media and
start checking those ones off because you guys have great cases.
I think the person that recommended the Zach and Addy
case just messaged me again today too, and I was like,
(52:17):
I have some more crazy stories for you. Oh love it.
So thank you guys so much for sticking with us.
Hope that your twenty twenty five is going okay.
Speaker 2 (52:29):
Okay, okay, I hope it's going really good.
Speaker 1 (52:33):
I'm just with the current state of things and kind
of yeah, just trying.
Speaker 2 (52:37):
To be as positive she can be as positive as.
Speaker 1 (52:40):
I can't be. I mean, my twenty twenty five has
been pretty good so far.
Speaker 2 (52:44):
Yeah, I'm surprised it's already twenty twenty five. I never
got used to writing twenty twenty four as the date.
Speaker 1 (52:49):
Twenty three years.
Speaker 2 (52:50):
Yeah, somebody told me that it's been half a decade
since COVID and I almost pissed my pants, like exc crazy.
Speaker 1 (52:57):
Yeah, I mean Alice and I started dating right for
like a couple of months before COVID started.
Speaker 2 (53:03):
Me and well, yeah, and now we're married. We've been
married for like two years, two and a half years.
I'm like, what the front door is happening to? Time?
Speaker 1 (53:11):
Just fucking speeding on.
Speaker 2 (53:12):
Ba, speeding on BA. Well, y'all, if you have any
case corrections, cases you want us to do recipes for
Candice to maybe one day make for met them on
the spot, You're welcome. Go ahead and hit us up
on Instagram. I'm at Scream dot and Dot Sugar dot
podcast on Facebook, Scream and Sugar True Creme Coffee Hour
on TikTok, Scream Dot and Dot Sugar, or hit us
(53:33):
up on the Gmail Scream and Sugar Reno at gmail
dot com. Anyway, we hope to catch y'all in the
next one and remember stay spooky, y'all.
Speaker 4 (53:42):
Bye.
Speaker 2 (54:21):
I don't know if you've noticed about him, but he
always unbuttons the top two buttons, like off his shirt
with three buttons. So and he calls it his lunch meat.
He's like, this is my lunch meat, and it's just
chest hair, hefty amount of chest hair.
Speaker 1 (54:36):
I've noticed. I'm like, sir, when I have him, I'm
about chest get all of them that.
Speaker 2 (54:42):
I'm always like, Babe, we're going to a family function.
You want to like cover that up. And he's like
what I was looking, Oh my god, baby, my lunch meat.
It's my lunch meat.
Welcome back, everyone to another episode of Scream and Sugar,
the podcast that delves into the darker set of humanity
while savoring a little sweetness on the side. I'm your host, Candace,
and I am Sahara, and today we're going to be
talking about the murder of Charla mac Hey. Sarah, Hey,
(00:54):
Candace starting things off right right in the news.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
I guess it's not really the new year for them.
They got an episode.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Before they did. They just got an episode yesterday. So anyway, hey, guys,
welcome to twenty twenty five. Mothers is kicking off and
being real weird already. I wish we had exact the sound.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
If I can find one, I will put with it.
Hell yeah, it'll be like.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
A yeah, that's already so crazy. And it's only what
the first, second, third week, I don't know, technically the
second week now, because it's the tenth. I just want
to send all of our love to La right now.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
It was horrendous fires that are just raging out of control,
absolutely devastating and so so so.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Sad, horrible. So all our love with our elly listeners
and anybody you know with family down there.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
It's exactly I hope you all got out safe and
just know we're thinking of you. And yeah, today, just
to segue into the episode, we went to Chrome Coffee.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Chrome Coffee which is where.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
The old CEC Coffee was, So it's on Pine Street
next to Pine State Biscuits and where the old Sizzle
Pie was. It's a really cute building. They readd it
really really well, all hand painted signs, which I love.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Their whole things like vintage right, yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Super super cute. So I'm gonna post up some pictures
of that. I of course got a Chai latte because
that's my shit. That's and it's it's yummy. I like it.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
It's very creamy Krema chat. We also got I got
an Americana what no, not that crazy, but and it's
mid it's mid you know, but I mean it's Americano guys.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Like sometimes it's hard to I don't know. As a
former Brista for like a short period of time, I
feel like it's very easy to bring in the espresso.
And unfortunately that happened today. That's okay, no shade because
what they had there, yeah, yeah, they we had already
(03:20):
covered this place. But Beloved Bakery has some pastries there
for your eating pleasure.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
And let me tell you my pleasure of eating beloved, based, beloved, basted, beloved, pasted,
My beloved bakery pastries is very high.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, got like a Danish with some cheese
and blue bars and that.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
And it's laminated.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Sahara says, it's very nicely laminated, a term that we've
learned from the Great British Bakeoff, yes, or the Great
British Baking Competition.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
The British.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
I always have it on in the background and I'm
like doing ship and it's just my favorite.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
I was never I'm not a good cook, let's just
put it that way. Not a good cook, not a
good baker. Damn. I learned a lot of terms watching
that show. I'll I'll put a don't play games with me, Candice.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
We also got this lovely little fluffy ass cinnamon sugar
and it's really dummy. So Harry doesn't tried it yet,
but I already took a bite out of it, and damn, girl,
I should probably take pictures of these.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
She pulled these motherfuckers out and I'm all, wow, those
look incredible. I'm taking bites. I'm like why are they
so good? She's like, they're from Beloved. I'm like, oh, okay,
we we love you, guys. I'm chrome about once a
week I wake up and ask Will to go get
me Beloved bakery pastries.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
What a man?
Speaker 2 (04:45):
He doesn't do it.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
I asked him, Hey, baby, you pick me up some
Beloved bakery.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Uh. Yeah, we'd be like, no.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
We need to lose weight the same boy.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
So it's super fucking cute in there. Check it out,
you guys and tell us what you think. Yeah, go
krumb and if you got any more, suggest Jolones. As
far as coffee shops go or little hole in the
wall pastry shops, let us know because there are so
many in Reno, I'm realizing. Yeah, and it's kind of
the best. It's love that the city is just like coffee. Please. Yes.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
That's the weirdest thing, too, is I feel like I
never really noticed before we started doing this, and now
I'm like all the time, I'm making like little mental lists.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Oh we've only like gone to the same coffee shop
like once or twice.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Yeah, and we could keep going back on Poppy because
I get Poppy.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
I'm my first love anyway.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
So today, Candice is taking us through a fantastic case
that is apparently local.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
It is, and it was also recommended by one of
our listeners. I at your show on your's eve. Sal
approached me and here was I love South too, Hi.
So he approached me and was like, my friend hit
me up and was like, when are those damn girls
going to do the case that I suggested? I suggested it,
he suggested it back in July fifteenth. July fifteenth, Oh,
(06:13):
but I was still in Europe at that point. So
blame it on me. Blame it on me, me, blame
on me. So, Jeff, thank you for being an earwig
in Sal's ear, and thank you Sal for being like, hey, bitch,
you guys still haven't covered this case. Today we're going
to be talking about the brutal murder of Charlotte Mack
(06:36):
by her estranged husband Darren Mack.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Oh okay, I've never even heard of this one.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Yeah, this is a Reno case, and so I'll probably
just start with giving some backstory about motherfuckering Darren. Darren
Roy Mack, who was born January thirty first, nineteen sixty
one in Rino, Nevada, grew up in a wealthy family.
So his parents owned Palace Jewelry and Loan. The pawn
(07:03):
shop that's on Virginia Street that I literally just drove by.
It is still open. I don't know if it's still
ran by the macfamily, but it's a pretty gigantic pawn
shop and they were extremely profitable, so they were like multimillionaires.
And so this is the kind of lifestyle that Darren
was born into. He graduated from Reno High School and
(07:26):
from what Andy and Jessica were saying, he was like
this preppy jock dude. He was on the baseball team,
very great athlete, but kind of ran with this crowd
that were like those fucking what did we called him
for the Amarillo, Texas case, the white hats. Yeah, so
they were the jockey group that could pretty much get
away with murder. Yep, rich boy, I know, rich boy jocks.
(07:50):
He drove nice cars. He attended Reno High School. He
would get in trouble, he had an and this group
that he would was hanging out with, they could chime
their way out of any situation. So he really had never.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Felt like repercussion exact thing.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
He'd always gotten away with whatever he was doing. He
graduates from Reno High School and goes on to attend
the University of Nevada Reno on a baseball scholarship and
starts to take part in working for the Mac family business,
so Palace Jewelry and Loan. So he becomes a part
(08:29):
owner of Palace Jewelry and Loan. He's like him and
one other person are the sole owners. His parents retire,
moved to Pensacle of Florida, and they would fly back periodically.
His dad had his own private little plane. They would
fly back periodically to check on the business and visit
with the family. And unfortunately, on one of these trips,
(08:50):
his dad is flying his plane by himself and his
mom Joan and her parents decide to drive back up
instead of flying. I don't think it could fit for
people or something like to that, okay degree, And so
unfortunately his dad gets caught in like the a turbulence
(09:11):
wave behind another commercial jet liner and crashes his plane
and dies on impact. Oh my god, making Darren one
of the soul owners of Palace Jewelry alone. He has
another brother, there's not much that about him. His name
is Landon Mac. He's a younger brother and I think
(09:32):
he kind of separated from the family early on, so
he's not involved.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
You know, my friend Brittany has a dog named land and.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
I have a brother named Landon.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Do you it's the cutest name ever? Face not your
brother's the dogs.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
So Darren it takes over this company and he goes
in and he's this pompous prick is what it sounds
like to me. He takes every employee into his office
and like he takes them in individually, one at a time,
and tells them, I'm the new owner. Blah, you're not
(10:15):
going to go buy what my dad and not how
my dad was running the business. You're going to go
buy how I'm running the business now. He does this,
and then he says he's gonna he fires all of
them essentially and says, I'm just going to hire my
own staff. I don't think it's going to work out
with you guys, and some of them have been there
for over a decade. As they're getting to the door
to leave all of these employees that he had just fired,
(10:38):
he stops them and says, Okay, now I'm going to
hire you all back on as my staff. So it's
like this big power play exactly.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
So he starts going to these business meetings like success
workshops basically these business looks, the business success workshops, and
he has all of his employees attend them as well,
and by all intents and purposes, he does start becoming
like a lucrative member of the community. And he is
(11:10):
basically has an annual income of five hundred thousand dollars
a year and a networth of nine point four million
dollars while the mid two thousands.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
That's quite a bit of money.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Yes, he was also involved in business politically as well,
and he founded the Nevada Ponbreaker Association as well as
he engaged in other local civic activities.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Oh, I didn't realize I needed an association.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Everything needs an association. They helped him meet together and
discuss the pricing and all that too, to make sure
that it's fair across the board. In nineteen eighty six,
Darren Mack had married Deborah Ashlock. She was eighteen when
they met and he was twenty four, so there was
six age age graps. She was fresh out of high
school and they end up having a son and daughter together. Okay,
(12:04):
this was already his second marriage. I don't know what
his first marriage is like because they don't have any
information on it, but apparently he had married someone and
then quickly divorced them, and then he married Deborah Ashlock
like very quickly. After this, their relationship was very tumultuous,
and apparently Debbie was having an affair with her professor.
(12:27):
She was attending the community college here. I don't know
if it was Tucky Medicsman community College, but she was
getting into psychology and her and her psychology professor ended
up having an affair, and she filed for divorce in
nineteen ninety one and then went on to marry this
professor within the year of her being divorced from Darren.
(12:50):
Debbie Debbie, Deborah, I'm gonna call her Debbie, Okay.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
So Darren has a first wife, divorces her Mary's Debbie
has two children, has two children, and then in ninety one,
Debbie divorces Darren.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Leaves him for her professors, her psychology professor.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Oh scandalous.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
And during this whole time, he's still he's running the
Palace Jewelry alone and he's becoming a very successful businessman.
She ends up filing for divorce and getting child support
obviously for her two kids. And they keep going, they
keep having this very rocky these divorce proceedings, trying to
(13:27):
get custody of the kids. She wants full custody of
both of their kids and only for Darren to have
like supervised visits or only have them on like the weekends.
And Darren's not fucking cool with this.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Okay, he wants his kids.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
He wants his kids. Is it a control a play
for control? Does he love his kids?
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Does he not want to pay child support or not?
Speaker 1 (13:48):
He doesn't want to pay child support, And this is
the big thing. He then goes down to La and
attends the Landmark Association. And so what this association is
is that they'd taken the brightest and most beautiful people
and hold these workshops to butter themselves to become like
(14:09):
the elite few. And this is where he meets Charla Samsel.
And now I'm gonna give a little bit of backsworm Charla.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Okay, yeah, let's go.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
So Charlotte was born and raised in California. Her parents
had divorced by the time she was about eight. She
lived with her mom and her brother, mostly in LA
Her dad moved to Reno. I guess her like upbringing
was very rocky, so she was moving around place to
place and at Eventually she did move to Reno for
(14:46):
a little bit and stayed with her dad, but she
hated it here. She she was running with the at crowd,
and so she was sent back to California, where she
ends up in La And she is an aspiring actor,
absolutely gorgeous. I'll post pictures. Obviously, she doesn't land on
(15:06):
a lot of roles though. She gets up bright and
early to go to these casting calls and isn't making
any headway with it. So she gets a job like
you do, as a waitress. So she's waiting tables and
one of these days that she's waiting tables lo and
behold sitting at one of her booths is Arnold Schwarzenegger.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
What Arnold get.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
To the job? Get down? So it's said that they
dated casually for about two years at the same time
he was engaged.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
And married, allegedly supposedly.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
After the fact, like they were still seeing each other casually,
and he had set to her well, allegedly supposedly, this
is what her family set to reporters. He had said that, well,
it's a very European thing to be kind of casual
about these things, like, of course you have your wife
at home, but you can have your mistresses on the side, supposedly,
and would throw that out there, please don't assume me arms.
(16:04):
Oh my god. And what kind of ended their relationship is.
Charlotte asked Arnold if he could potentially give give her
an end in the acting community, like if he could
get her role on one of these films that he
was working on. He's a nope, girl by and he left,
(16:26):
and he left and basically ghosted her.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Holy shit, Charla, that's terrible, I.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Know, poor baby. She does land a role in the
nineteen ninety two film Poison IVY starring Drew Barbymon. She has,
I believe, like a couple of wines. She's supposed to
be an orderly in the hospital, but she gets so
nervous when it comes time to say her lines that
they just end up cutting her from the movie, like
(16:53):
I think you see her for a second, but she
doesn't have any speaking lines. She was also in the
nineteen eighty seven film Heaven. It's like a documentary and
it asks people about their beliefs concerning the apter life, which.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Is okay of excuse me, but have you seen the
cover of it?
Speaker 1 (17:09):
I loves I you know that?
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Yeah, oh my god, it's so cool. Please post a
picture of this just separately that just says heaven a film,
I love it? Holy shit? All right, cool?
Speaker 1 (17:23):
And she has an interview on that. But other than that,
she's not doing well as financially, she's just she's struggling, struggling,
and this is not the life she wants for herself.
(17:48):
In walks Darren Mack at one of these Landmark Association
meetings and they hit it off immediately. Darren's kind of
beefy jockey dude. Obviously he's not bad looking. He's not cute,
but he's not bad looking. Well, and he's rich and
(18:08):
he's filthy rich, like at this point, yes, filthy rich.
And he's also dealing with the divorce and like custody
issues with his kids, and she like they get to
talking and getting to know, like start getting to know
each other and start dating, and from what she sees,
he's this loyal man that just wants, you know, wants
(18:31):
to be in his kids lives. Yeah, and he right
away starts telling her like he wants to get married,
and that is like one of his big goals because
this Landmark association, they you have to set out these
goals for yourself. And her whole thing is like she's
there to teach people how to count calories and how
(18:51):
to like basically be skinny, because you can't be in
the elite if you're a fat hoe.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Oh no, I guess I'm out.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
I'm out too. So they start dating and then she
moves to Reno to be with him, to be with him. Yes,
they get married in nineteen ninety five, but before all this,
he puts up this prenuptial agreement and basically excludes her
(19:18):
from having any steak in the palm chop, any steak
in their future businesses, any steak in like the houses
that they buy together. So if they do get divorced,
she gets nothing.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Oh man, what this He really traps her there.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Yeah, and so she's like, well, fuck no, and they
start fighting like NonStop.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
She said no, good for her, she said, fuck.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
You no, like that is a big red flag for me.
I'm sorry, but I don't have anything. Why would I
know You've already been divorced twice.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Yeah, that's crazy.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
And so she ends up getting pregnant before they get married,
and this kind of he he rips up the prenuptial
agreement very dramatically, and it's like, oh, fine, we don't
have to have the prenup I love you that much.
And he's very excited about her having the baby. After
they get married, everything seems like it's going pretty well,
(20:16):
except by the time she's like eight and a half
months pregnant, he proposes that they start swinging after she
has the baby.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
What the fuck?
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Yeah, in a monogamous relationship, and why the fuck do
you get married? I don't want to be in a
monograms pregnant's pregnant and has nowhere to go weird.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Oh my god, can you imagine you're eight and a
half months pregnant and this guy says that to you.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
And he's basically like, either that or we're gonna get
a divorce. Like, if you're not cool with it and
we're getting a divorce, ain't half months pregnant? It's O great,
damn sorry. Charlotte's just like fuck. But she's also very open.
She's very actually like liberal liberal okay, So she's like okay,
(21:04):
like all right, cool, I don't want to raise this
baby upy myself. And he had actually slipped in the
prenup into the paperwork for when they got married.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
So done, Yeah, that sneaky little fuck.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
She was just like, it was just like some other
paperwork captive signed for the like for our marriage license.
Read don't sign anything before you read it.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Don't trust your partner.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Ill just like read he tries at least fucking scan
over it and make sure it's like, you know, what
you're signing is what they say you're signing, because he
probably was like, oh, yeah, it's not a big deal, baby,
just like it is the final She did not know
about the prenup. Her signature was on it. She did
not know about it.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
That poor thing.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Dude, do do do do do what a fucker?
Speaker 2 (21:53):
No kidding.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
So they start going off on these lavish swinging excursions
to where they will go to like resorts. They keep
their daughter Erica stays with the grandma Joan back in Reno,
and then they'll go to like these fucking thousand dollars
a night swinger resorts holy shit, for like a week.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
And there was one time where they were down in
Las Vegas and he told Charlie that he had to
have a meeting with somebody, and she confided in one
of her friends that she thinks that maybe he was
trying to hire a hitman to murdered.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Shut the fuck up.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
Yeah, but that's all inconclusive, like, there's no proof of that.
But that's what supposedly he was trying to do at
this casino in Las Vegas.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
What the fuck, dude.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Yeah, because he didn't want to pay child support. He
wanted full custody of the kids. He didn't want to
pay child support, and he wanted to have sex with
anyone he wanted to.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
That's crazy.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Yeah, So they're swinging. They're swinging there, having a good
old time party, but Charlotte's kind of over it. They
start taking well, okay, we'll back that up a little bit.
They get to this resort and are at their first
swingers event called The Hedonist Too.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
The Hedonist Too. Yeah, Okay, why does this sound like
a gdlawnwar.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
I'm so sorry he's talking about the nineties, right, Oh
my god. Yeah, and he starts taking well, I'm assuming
they both start taking ecstasy because that helps you loose
enough a little shit. I'm went in ecstasy one time,
so his he starts taking ecstasy though more than just recreationally.
And he's also seeing these people that have like Greek
(23:51):
god status bodies, and he's feeling a little self conscious
about himself. So he gets real big into bodybuilding, okay,
and so he's he buys all this gym equipment to
put into their fucking multimillion dollar home, and they start
like eating really healthily. But he's also doing steroids and
he's still doing ecstasy. I think someone said he did
(24:12):
ecstasy over one hundred times, which is fucking not great
for your brain.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Oh, it is so bad for your brain.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
He's just burnt a hole straight through his dome.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Oh no.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
And he's doing steroids and he's doing steroids, and then
he starts having performance issues because he's also taking GHB,
the date rape jeb drug to help him loosen up
at these parties, which doesn't make any sense to me.
I don't know if there's a small enough dose that
you can take where there's gotta be right. Yeah, So
he starts having performance issues as.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Well, which I'm sure adds to the insecurity.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
And get it up. So he starts taking fucking viagra
on top of all of this. Oh my god, it's
gotta who knows what. He'll probably cocaine because it's the
fucking nineties, right, wow, and he's rich.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
That's quite the cocktail.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
That's quite a fucking cocktail. And get it at one
of these cock Sorry sorry, sorry sorry, one of these
visits to Las Vegas. They're leaving one of these sex
clubs and Darren starts having like slurred speech and he's
(25:17):
acting really off and Charlotte's like, oh fuck, something's wrong.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
A little too much GHB and his X.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
So they get into a cab and she takes them
to an emergency room where he is diagnosed with spinal meningitis.
Oh fuck, and he goes into a coma for three days.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Holy shit, meningitis and his spinal column vinyl.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
Oh what is that?
Speaker 2 (25:42):
That's scariest fuck. Meningitis So it's an Meningitis is the
inflammation of tissues surrounding the brain and spinal cord. So
it's inflammation.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Would this be caused by his drug use?
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Let's google, because I don't want to give therng of information,
but I feel like I think it could be caused
from any sort of open wound, like a bacteria getting
in there, or my first thought was actually that maybe
something he was snorting.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Oh yeah, yeah, go straight into your brain. Several drugs
can induce men ningitas. Oh it's interesting, great, I know me.
I'm like, well, if he's taking steroids, you have to
shoot him up exactly. So it's probably from an infected
wound with that or like you said, something that he's
taking nasally. And it can also happen from taking antibiotics.
(26:28):
Did you know that, like certain antibiotics can cause spidal meningitis.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
What the fuck? Yeah, that's fucking crazy. So he ended
up with spidal min ningitis.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Spider man angitis. He's in a coma for three days
before he comes out of it, and he's still he's
there for several more days until they clear him to
be safe to travel back to Reno Holy shit, where
then he is put into intensive care until he's able
to leave. Basically, so a couple of weeks with his illness,
and he says, because of this near death experience, he's
(27:04):
had the epiphany that he wants to start swinging more.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Like before he does, he wants to sleep with like
a thousand people or something.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Something to that degree. But he wants to move in
sexual partners to their mansion with their kid.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Okay, so to him, it's more like a polly ish,
polish thing.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Maybe he just wants people to be honest. He wants
to be basically the fucking he wants a harem.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Yes, oh okay, I see he.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Was like a playboy bunny Ranch essentially is what? Because
I'm sure he doesn't want to move in sex partners
from Keefner exactly. And he talks about moving her out
into her own apartment and having like they they he
goes back and forth about it because she's like, absolutely
fucking not. And then he's like, well, you can leave
and you can go, and I'll pay for this apartment,
(27:56):
but you have to be at my beck and call
for when I want sex, and you can't have sex
with anyone else. But I'm going to have all these
people at the house and I won't do it in
front of Erica.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
But well, Erica, he wants Erica to stay at the house.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
No he doesn't.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Oh okay, I was like Jesus Christ.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
He's like, if when they're over, that's not gonna happen
in front of their kid. But this is like his thing.
He wants to be Hugh Heffner, he wants the girls
next door thing he wants Yep, he wants it all.
I think he's something in his brain sounds like insecurity
to me. Yeah, something, I don't know. Wow, it got
a complex maybe yeh, thinking that you know, he should
(28:34):
have all of these women well and just there to
have sex with whenever he wants, right, But he's also
having I don't know the cocktail that he's taking because
he can't get it up. I'm just like, bro, you
need to fucking reevaluate your priorities, right. And Charlotte says
that his personality kind of changed after this spinal meningitis,
(28:58):
and they had had instances, but they would get into
big bites and they were both physically abusive towards each
other and verbally abusive towards each other. Not saying that
she deserved what happened to her, but it just seemed
like it was a very very toxic relationship. I was
getting more and more toxic. And they end up going
to marriage counseling and the counselor kind of works it
(29:22):
out to where she's like, Darren, wouldn't it make more sense?
For you to get your own apartment and for Charlotte
to stay at the house because at this point, Charlotte's
mom is living in their guest house and her dad
is helping run the pawn shops eBay business, so he's
entangled both of her parents in this. Oh my god,
(29:42):
they're all reliant on him financially and for housing. So
it's just Charlotte can't leave, like, she feels very trapped,
and she finally like it just gets so bad that
they both agree that they should just separate. Oh and
(30:05):
so they start going to the courthouse to work with
family Court Judge Weller Chuck Weller. Basically he wants to
settle it outside of court. Chuck Judge Chuck Weller is like,
can you just come to like an agreement between the
two of you to keep it out of like the
courthouse and to like, you know, make it not so
difficult on your children, like like a mediator kind of Yeah, exactly,
(30:28):
And he's done this successfully with a lot of other cases,
so he's just like hoping that this will be a
good solution for them, but it's not because Darren doesn't
want to fucking pay child's apart. He doesn't want to
have to pay any type of alimony. Alimony to Charla.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
He also snuck in a freaking prenup.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
He's snuck in the prenup. And so he's just like,
he's making forty thousand dollars a month.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
And that's double my annual pay.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
I know, fucking same.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
He's like, what a life. Maybe should get into the
palm drop business.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
What the fuck?
Speaker 4 (31:02):
Fuck.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Charlotte and Erica are living at the mansion and Darren
is living in his apartment. Charlotte doesn't make any money, right,
so he's not paying the bills, mortgage or utilities. One Christmas,
I guess the power had just gotten shut off and
Charlotte and Erica Christmas. Yes, what a douche they Charlotte
(31:25):
makes it out, so they're pretending they're camping, so she's
trying to make it fun and still a good experience
for her daughter, which I'm like, oh, what a mom.
So they have sleeping bags, they're in front of a
fireplace with a fire going, and they're roasting marshmallows and
just trying to get through it. They go back into court.
Judge Weller is pissed that he would do this to
(31:47):
his daughter daughter, Yeah, and Sharla, And he says, you
know what, dude, you need to pay ten thousand dollars
a month, so a quarter of your monthly income as
well as eight hundred dollars a month for child support.
To Charlot is a lot. Yeah, but I assume, like
with the utilities and the mortgage and like having to
(32:09):
have a gardener and all this other shit that you
have to have with a big ass house like that,
hundred probably it was probably more like two thousand dollars.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
One hundred and twenty thousand dollars a year. Yeah, I
mean he has He's worth a lot.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
He has the money. Yeah, he instead of paying this
money to Sharla, he steps down as the owner from
Palace Jewelry and Loan, and in Staid says that he's
only a sales associate, so he's only making five thousand
a month, which I'm so like, fuck, that's a lot
of money. Maybe she like damn okay, And I mean
(32:46):
he's so slippery, so he's dodging his fucking payments. Yep, clearly,
and he still has all this fucking money. Charlotte and
Darren both request restraining orders. Against each other. Bitch, you
have a kid together, both of you, not her specifically.
I'm not saying bitch to just bitch general bitch. Bitches,
(33:09):
you have a child like you should be trying to
be amicable and civil about this, right right. So the
(33:31):
judge has already had cases like this before where the
parents are so wrapped up in their own shit that
they don't take this into consideration. So what the deal
is is that one of them, on the day that
they're supposed to switch off with Erica, one of them
will drop her off at school in the morning, and
then the other one's supposed to go and pick her
up at night to do the arrangement. That way, they
(33:54):
don't see each other at all. Right, But I'm like
that's pretty smart. Unfortunately, on June twelfth, two thousand and six,
Charla school is out, so it's summer break. Charlotta is
set to drop off Erica with Darren at his apartment.
(34:15):
Darren has a roommate at this point. His name is Dan.
Dan for all of this, from what I can tell,
was a pretty good, pretty good guy and helped take
care of Erica okay, and was kind of a mediator
between Charla and Darren they were ever in the same
room type thing, which they weren't supposed to be anyway.
Charlotte's just supposed to drop off Erica. She's just like
(34:38):
basically waves from the window to say like, Okay, she's here,
she's got her stuff. Bye, I see you next week.
Darren says, oh wait, no, I have something for you
in the garage that that is either Erica's or Charlotte's.
I don't know which one it was, they don't say.
He kind of lures her into the garage though, with
the premise of I have something for you to pick
(34:59):
up and I need you to come into the garage
to grab it kind of thing. So he's like, hey,
you take Erica upstairs. So he lures her into the garage,
and so what Darren tells prosecutors later is that they
got into an argument and Charlotte pushes Darren over, which
(35:23):
remember he's bodybuilding, buff dude, and I don't think she's
more than a buck thirty soak, and we pushes him
to the ground. The gun that he was carrying on
his person falls out of his pocket, which I'm like,
what do you have it in your sweat your park pocket?
You fucking jackass anyway, falls to the ground. They struggle
for it. Charlotte grabs the gun, points it out Darren
(35:44):
and pulls the trigger and it misfires.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
Yeah, very sounds sounds plausible and sounds likely self defense.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
Darren says he then used the knife to slash and
stab her multiple times.
Speaker 4 (36:00):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
He cuts his hand somehow. Dan sees him his like,
Dan has a big like fucking pyrenees. I don't know
if it's like a pipull or some some sort of
fucking big dog. And he hears the dog like going loco,
and I there's probably I think there's a doggy door
in the garage or something. So the dog gets into
the garage is freaking out. So Dan lets him into
(36:21):
the house and he's covered in blood. Oh god, Darren
has his hand wrapped at the rag that he's using
is covered in blood. The dog is covered in blood.
And Dan's like, Okay, I need to get Erica the
fuck out of here. He's like, He's like, I'm going
to take her to Jones her Grandma's what the fuck?
And Darren's like, oh yeah, don't worry about it, like whatever,
(36:44):
and he leaves Dan. They both leave. They all leave
except for Charlotte.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
Yeah, well clearly, and Charlotte's not going anywhere.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
He fucking Darren. He has a he has rented a
silver Floord Explorer, and he drives to a parking garage
that's near the downtown courthouse Okay, where Judge Weller is at.
He has just gotten done with one of his proceedings,
so he's disturbing. He's taking off his robe, he's in
front of one of the windows. He's straightening his bookshelf,
and his secretary is there like talking with him casually,
(37:13):
and all of a sudden they hear this loud pop
and see a flash of light. Glass shatters, another pop,
and Judge Weeller has been shot in the chest twice.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
Yeah, and he doesn't realize that it's happened to him
at first. He's kind of just like, what the fuck
was that? And the secretary thinks a light bulb had
like exploded, so she's like, oh, he's being fucking dramatic.
He's like, no, I need you to call my family
right now and tell them to get out of the
house and get themselves somewhere safe because he thinks someone
might be coming after him as well.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
So he's been shot in the chest twice. Is he's
but he's still like cognizant, like functioning. He is conscious.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
Barely, Yeah, he is teetering on the edge of unconsciousness.
He's able to stay awake until the paramedics arrive. And
then the swat team kind of shuts down that whole
block and tries to figure out who the fuck did
this because Chuck Weller obviously Judge Weller is a family
court judge, so he's probably proceeded a lot over a
lot of these cases and probably had a lot of
(38:11):
guys pissed off at him for how much alimony they
have to pay their ex wives. But they ask him,
is there anyone in particular that you've had a case
with recently that you think would attempt your like put
an attempt on your life, And he says Darryl Mack
so remembers the mac part, but he gets the first
name wrong at the same time. So Darren leaves, he
(38:34):
flees the area. He goes to a Starbucks, which I
wander hips the one down down its Ray goes to Starbucks,
calls his buddy Dan and he's like, I want you
to bring Erica down here. I want to see her
one more time. Oh god, And Darren does d D
fucking texts her down. Man. Darren buys Erica a lemon
bar and gets himself a coffee, and it's basically like,
(38:55):
I have to go away for a while. Just know
that I love you and don't forget me. And then
he fucking takes off. I think it's by like two
thirty in the afternoon. He is out of Remow and
driving to Mexico.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
Of course he is.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
He gets across the border.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
Fine, Wow, Oh he made it.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
Yes, he made it across the border by midnight. I
want to say, which is It's a long house drive,
so he was booking it.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
Two to midnight is like ten hours. So in ten
hours he's crossing the border.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
Wow, ten hours, he's crossing the border. And Dan had
called the He had called nine one one and been like, Hey,
I'm seeing all this shit happening on the news. I'm
pretty sure it was my buddy Darren, and I'm pretty
sure something happened to his wife. Here's our address. They
didn't take it seriously. They thought it was like a
false tip.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
He calls them back again.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
And Reno didn't take it seriously. So surprised, he calls.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
Them back again and they're like, hey, Darren Mack and
they're like, oh, they put it two or two together,
Daryl Mac Darren Mack and they're like, oh shit, okay,
So they rush over to his apartment. They pry open
the garage door and they find the deceased body of Charla.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
Charla, poor thing, dude.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
She'd been Okay, I'm gonna go ahead and give a
trigger warning, which I probably should have already done, dun
because it's a little gory. But she had been slashed
and stabbed, and her throat had been slit so deeply
that her head was almost decapitated. Right, So self defense, yeah,
I'm sure, very fucking unlikely.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
Seems seems pretty passionate to me.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
Very fucking passionate, almost addicted to capitting ahead. I don't
know how hard that is, but it can't be easy.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
That's a lot of slashes with a knife. Well, and
you do imagine that if he stabbed her a bunch
of times, it'd probably be pretty dull by then.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
Right, right, I don't know if he slashed her, like
we don't know if he cut her throat first and
then stabbed her in a fit of passionate rage. But wow,
his daughter's upstairs. That's what pisses me off the most.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
Yeah, that's crazy.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
Yeah. Anyway, he evades capture for over eleven days. He
ends up in Porta Viada, which I love Portata me too,
at a swingers resort.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
Oh my god, this guy he.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
Has forty thousand dollars in cash on him. He ditches
the silver Ford Escort and yeah he's just like still
just doing his thing live and launch. Wow, dude, but
he can't speak Spanish, so he sticks out like a
sore thumb, like he's trying. Like if he even were
to try to go more into the interior, like that
(41:36):
was my rural areas to kind of evade capture, probably
would have been more smart, but smarter.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Yeah, say, Porta Verta is pretty touristy.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
It's very touristy. I stuck love it there.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
Yeah, the resorts are freaking amazing.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Let's go. Uh So, spoiler alert, Judge Weller does not die.
He survives two guns shot wounds. So, Darren, there's like
a full scale investigation launched by the FBI. They kind
of have the inkling that he's down in Mexico. So
the Mexican government as well as the FBI are working
(42:12):
to find him, and they do. They extra died him
back to the United States and back to Reno. His
sentencing starts a year later. He tries to plead insanity.
And the reason why he tries to plead insanity is
because he was on this TV or was it like
a radio talk show or some shit with this like
super libertarian dude that they have been talking about kind
(42:37):
of his lifestyle and like his business and how he's
very like very wealthy, and how he got to where
he was basically, and they're having like a sidebar conversation afterwards,
but they're still rolling the tape, so it's still caught
on tape. The radio host is basically like, oh, yeah,
you know, like it's kind of crazy. You can probably
(42:57):
murder your wife and plead insanity and get out and
seven and not have to pay that child support or
that alimony.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
And so you kind of see where it he got
his idea. And then immediately after this show, after recording's done,
he goes and he starts writing basically his manifesto and
it's like he's getting all of these guns, and he's like,
these are the steps that I need to take. And
at the very end it says end to problem, oh much,
(43:26):
we as referring to Charlote, what a douche. At a
preliminary hearing on August thirty, two thousand and six, Max
was held over for a trial. His defense attorneys tried
to seek a mental competency evaluation for him, and on
September eleventh, the prosecutor announced they were not going to
seek a death penalty in this case.
Speaker 2 (43:47):
Interesting.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
He pleaded not guilty at an arraignment on September thirteenth,
and then on the fourth, attorney Scott Freeman tried to
get Max's attempted murder of the judge charge dropped, which
boy no, not happening any His trial was then set
for a year later, on October first, two thousand and seven. So,
(44:10):
following a discussion about these criminal cases, on October thirteenth,
Judge J. Charles Thompson disqualified the entire Washer County bench
from all civil cases against mac Charlotte, Max's estate and
attorneys on behalf of Erica filed civil cases for damages
in the wrongful death of Charlotte. So they're like, you
are going to fucking pay for what you did to
(44:31):
this girl's fucking mother.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
Yeah, and her like main caregiver.
Speaker 1 (44:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
Doe.
Speaker 1 (44:36):
Trials then moved to Las Vegas, where Clark County District
Judge Douglas Herndon was appointed to the case. In fifth
two thousand and seven, Mac pleaded a guilty to the
first degree murder of his ex wife and entered an
Alfred plea to the attempted murder charge of Judge Weller.
Speaker 2 (44:52):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
An alford plea basically is a guilty plea in a
criminal court where the defendant in a criminal case does
not admit to the criminal act and asserts his innocence,
but still accepts the imposition of the sentence because they're
likely to be found guilty.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
Right, It's like a new contest almost right right.
Speaker 1 (45:12):
Just before the trial was to begin, in exchange for
a recommendation by the prosecutor for life in prison and
with pearl after twenty years, so he had the possibility
of parole in twenty years.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
What the fuck?
Speaker 1 (45:22):
Judge was not bound by the sentencing recommendation, and Max
said during the plea, I do understand right now in
my state of mind that shooting at the judiciary is
not a proper form of political redress.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
What the fuck, sir?
Speaker 1 (45:38):
He later fired that defense attorney, his set of attorneys,
he had a couple of them, and hired a new
defense attorney, William Rutsis, and he tried to withdraw those
pleas of guilty for the offered plea and for the
killing of his wife because he goes with that story
that I had told you initially where they had struggled,
(46:00):
Charlotte has slushed him and it was in self defense
because she had grabbed the gun and pulled the trigger.
He says that the reason why they're not able to
find the gun with fingerprint evidence from Charlotte is because
he disposed of it on his way to the courthouse
to shoot Judge Weller, and the gun has never been
found because it doesn't exist, because it doesn't exist all
(46:23):
allegedly Supposedly there was probably from the pawn shop, and
then he probably probably just gave it to someone because
we don't, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
Do you we know what he shot at the judge
with I can look that up for you. I assuming
it's a type of it, it was a sniper rifle. Yeah,
and because I mean to get him from outside a window.
Speaker 1 (46:42):
Right and twice in the chest.
Speaker 2 (46:43):
I mean also pretty good aim, right, crazy.
Speaker 1 (46:46):
And that this is like something that gets brought up
later when his oldest son is trying to believe his
name is Corey is trying to back his father and
say that this was in self defense and that his
father was an expert marksman. He was just trying to
make a point and he could have killed Judge Weller
if he wanted to. I'm just like, that doesn't make
(47:08):
it okay.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
Right, I'll be honest. I think he used all of
his in the test.
Speaker 1 (47:15):
Yeah, twice. That is where all of your like, that's
where your heart is, That's where a lot of your
main art like organs are. But clearly he was trying
to kill this an attempted murders I think so it
was too like I think so too. Under the terms
of the plea agreement, Herndon sentenced Mack to life in
prison for murdering his wife, so the first degree murder
(47:35):
of Charlotte, and for the attempted murder of Judge Weller
with a deadly weapon and handsoment. So he had a
scope on that bad boy. She's sentenced Mac to the
maximum of forty years, which I think is crazy, with
a parole eligibility after sixteen years. So those two combound
twenty with sixteen.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
So there were to be served consecutively.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
Consecutively, well until he's able to apply.
Speaker 2 (47:58):
For parole consecutively means one after the other.
Speaker 1 (48:02):
Yeah, so thirty six years. He was sentenced to life
and sentenced to forty years, but he was also eligible
for parole after twenty years in the case of Charlotte
Mack and sixteen years for the attempted murder of.
Speaker 2 (48:15):
That's still wild that he was ever given.
Speaker 1 (48:17):
So thirty six years. On March eighteenth, two thousand and eight,
the Washa County Juror delivered a five hundred and ninety
million dollar settlement against Mac and the wrongful death's lawsuit
of his wife, Charlotte. Five hundred and sixty million dollars
was awarded to the couple's young daughter, Erica, with the
remainder to go to his wife's estate. I believe he's
(48:41):
still fucking alive.
Speaker 2 (48:43):
I'm still in prison. I would hope.
Speaker 1 (48:45):
Well, yeah, because he's eligible those twenty eight so twenty
six years. That would be twenty forty four, so he
still got another twenty years without the possibility of parole.
Speaker 2 (48:55):
He is in Lovelock Correctional Center, still alive, still kicking.
Speaker 1 (49:00):
Still trying to appeal this case and say that it
was in self defense.
Speaker 2 (49:04):
So it turned. It looks like according to this he
will be up for parole in when he's eighty two.
So maybe he'll be dead by then.
Speaker 1 (49:12):
Probably not. I feel like he's I don't know, you
living out of spite right now.
Speaker 2 (49:16):
I know, I feel like you can't really like fuck
with your body like that and expect to live a
long time.
Speaker 1 (49:21):
Well, he was not able to do it. Now, maybe
it's true, maybe all of this got him out of
doing all the all the bad shit. Yeah, the excess
of drugging. Didn't say anything about him drinking a lot,
so it was mostly just drugs.
Speaker 2 (49:33):
Well, it makes you wonder like if he hadn't started
like obviously he's always had that, you know, there's no
real consequences for me attitude. But it makes you wonder
like if he hadn't started mixing all that stuff and
fucking with his brain as bad as he did.
Speaker 1 (49:47):
It hadn't gotten the spinal man ningitis.
Speaker 2 (49:50):
Yeah, and all obviously completely depleted all of his dopamine
reserves and burned a hole in his brain. Like, would
this have happened? Because at what point do you say
to yourself, you know what, I'm going to viciously murder
the mother of my child.
Speaker 1 (50:04):
Lure her into the garage while my daughter is home.
I am viciously murdered her.
Speaker 2 (50:08):
Yeah, and then go shoot a federal court.
Speaker 1 (50:10):
Yeah, so there's planning involved.
Speaker 2 (50:13):
Or a state court judge.
Speaker 1 (50:14):
Yeah, yeah, there was planning involved. So his plea for
insanity was thrown out the window.
Speaker 2 (50:18):
Oh yeah, absolutely, I mean, he was clearly a sound mind.
He knew what he did was wrong. He met with
his daughter, he knew he was going down, and he
fled to Mexico and he fled, absolutely so, And that
whole fucking self defense thing.
Speaker 1 (50:30):
Just pushed me and trying to shoot me, and the
gun didn't go off, so Ice almost decapitated her.
Speaker 2 (50:38):
Right, And like if the gun didn't go off, then
how is it self defense at that point? King? You
just if the gun's not working.
Speaker 1 (50:45):
Well, he felt like she was still trying, that she
was still try to continue shooting. Maybe Okay, I don't know,
but Anywayen, you got rid of the gun too, so
you got rid of any of your evidence for a case.
Speaker 2 (50:54):
I'm not sure if this is true, but my understanding
is if you try to pull the trigger in it
and it misfires, you still have gun residue on your hands.
Speaker 1 (51:00):
Interesting. I don't know that.
Speaker 2 (51:01):
I don't I better double before the public. Man, I'm
probably on some sort of watch list for these questions. Okay, Yes,
even if a gun misfires will leave a small amount
of residue on the shooter's hands, potentially on the gun.
Speaker 1 (51:15):
Yeah, so they could have totally.
Speaker 2 (51:18):
But I mean, Na Nevada and.
Speaker 1 (51:22):
Not much going on there, and don't trust him.
Speaker 2 (51:27):
Right, Well, that was a fucking crazy episode, Candice.
Speaker 1 (51:29):
Right right here in Reno, Nevadie Powerace, Jewelry and Alone
is still open. I've been there before. It's pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (51:35):
I almost feel like we should go there now, let's
take a picture.
Speaker 1 (51:38):
We can totally go. But yeah, that's a crazy case.
Thank you again Jeff for recommending that. He also sent
to over a picture of like where Darren Mack shot
at the courthouse, so.
Speaker 2 (51:50):
Yeah, we'll include that. If there he circled the areas
for us. So thank you, Jeff, We appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (51:55):
Thanks for waiting an entire happy year to have your
case heard. I'll try to go back and if you
guys want to resend them to me, please do. But
I'll try to go back through our social media and
start checking those ones off because you guys have great cases.
I think the person that recommended the Zach and Addy
case just messaged me again today too, and I was like,
(52:17):
I have some more crazy stories for you. Oh love it.
So thank you guys so much for sticking with us.
Hope that your twenty twenty five is going okay.
Speaker 2 (52:29):
Okay, okay, I hope it's going really good.
Speaker 1 (52:33):
I'm just with the current state of things and kind
of yeah, just trying.
Speaker 2 (52:37):
To be as positive she can be as positive as.
Speaker 1 (52:40):
I can't be. I mean, my twenty twenty five has
been pretty good so far.
Speaker 2 (52:44):
Yeah, I'm surprised it's already twenty twenty five. I never
got used to writing twenty twenty four as the date.
Speaker 1 (52:49):
Twenty three years.
Speaker 2 (52:50):
Yeah, somebody told me that it's been half a decade
since COVID and I almost pissed my pants, like exc crazy.
Speaker 1 (52:57):
Yeah, I mean Alice and I started dating right for
like a couple of months before COVID started.
Speaker 2 (53:03):
Me and well, yeah, and now we're married. We've been
married for like two years, two and a half years.
I'm like, what the front door is happening to? Time?
Speaker 1 (53:11):
Just fucking speeding on.
Speaker 2 (53:12):
Ba, speeding on BA. Well, y'all, if you have any
case corrections, cases you want us to do recipes for
Candice to maybe one day make for met them on
the spot, You're welcome. Go ahead and hit us up
on Instagram. I'm at Scream dot and Dot Sugar dot
podcast on Facebook, Scream and Sugar True Creme Coffee Hour
on TikTok, Scream Dot and Dot Sugar, or hit us
(53:33):
up on the Gmail Scream and Sugar Reno at gmail
dot com. Anyway, we hope to catch y'all in the
next one and remember stay spooky, y'all.
Speaker 4 (53:42):
Bye.
Speaker 2 (54:21):
I don't know if you've noticed about him, but he
always unbuttons the top two buttons, like off his shirt
with three buttons. So and he calls it his lunch meat.
He's like, this is my lunch meat, and it's just
chest hair, hefty amount of chest hair.
Speaker 1 (54:36):
I've noticed. I'm like, sir, when I have him, I'm
about chest get all of them that.
Speaker 2 (54:42):
I'm always like, Babe, we're going to a family function.
You want to like cover that up. And he's like
what I was looking, Oh my god, baby, my lunch meat.
It's my lunch meat.
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