May 28, 2025 • 43 mins
Welcome back to Scream and Sugar, your true crime coffee hour.
This week, we're diving into the chilling and tragic case of Aileen Wuornos—often labeled as America's first female serial killer. But was she truly a cold-blooded predator, or a deeply damaged woman failed by every system around her? Join us as Candace traces Aileen’s turbulent life—from a childhood filled with abuse and abandonment to the Florida highways where seven men met their end. We’ll explore her controversial trial, the media frenzy that followed, and the psychological complexities that still spark debate today.
Was it self-defense, as she claimed, or something much darker? Brew something strong—this one’s heavy.
And remember to stay spooky, y’all!
Snacks: Ikedas, Auburn, CA https://www.ikedas.com/
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/scream-and-sugar-true-crime-coffee-hour--6015946/support.
This week, we're diving into the chilling and tragic case of Aileen Wuornos—often labeled as America's first female serial killer. But was she truly a cold-blooded predator, or a deeply damaged woman failed by every system around her? Join us as Candace traces Aileen’s turbulent life—from a childhood filled with abuse and abandonment to the Florida highways where seven men met their end. We’ll explore her controversial trial, the media frenzy that followed, and the psychological complexities that still spark debate today.
Was it self-defense, as she claimed, or something much darker? Brew something strong—this one’s heavy.
And remember to stay spooky, y’all!
Snacks: Ikedas, Auburn, CA https://www.ikedas.com/
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/scream-and-sugar-true-crime-coffee-hour--6015946/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back, everyone to another episode of Screaming Sugar, the
Chuck crime podcast that delves into the darker side of
community while savoring a little something sweet on the side.
I am your host, Candace, and I am Sahara, and
today we're going to be taking a look at the
tragic tale of Eileen Warnos. What's up, Saharah? Hello, Candace,
(00:53):
how the fuck have you been?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
I'm just a diargy and it has been a weird
world we get to live in.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Yeah, I fucking hear that. I uh just made the
realization that we're already at quarter of the way through
the fucking year. I'm twenty twenty five. It's been a
fucking roller coaster of a dumpster fire.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
So true, and a quarter of the way through that hurts,
I feel like, And yeah, so.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
It's been weird, Like I feel like the semester's kind
of flown by, just good and bad because I feel
like I'm behind but I'm not, and it's midterms and
it's spring break time, and I don't I don't know,
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Where am I just blinked? And then what time has passed?
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Where the fuck are we?
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Too far?
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Too far Anyway, today we're gonna be reviewing fucking Aikdas
in California. It's like one of my favorite stops in
between driving from Reno to Act Sacramento. And they have
like a whole market side and then they have a
(02:07):
little deli restaurant side. But I brought us some chocolate
chip cookies and some coffee cake and chocolate covered espresso beans. Ye,
and yeah, it's fucking bomb. They're a little old because
I went last week, but they're bomb stiller good.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Super good.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
I needed some hair to help me finish them before
I ate all of it in one sitting by myself
at like midnight. So thank you for your contribute, contribution.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Contribution, yes, but don't ever ever asked me to do
it again.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Okay, my last one time.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
We're hopping back on our bullshit. It's just been a
hard it's been a hard couple of months, but I.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Cope with food, so unfortunately, clearly I scarf down like
almost every single thing she brought in.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
So delicious, so good.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Really helped us with a cookie too, So thanks, will you,
I guess, I guess, But yeah, if you haven't yet
check out Aikda's it's right off the freeway. And they've
got some tasty as motherfucking sandwiches too.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Yeah, they have a Tofu burger there that is just
bomb dot com mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
I had a chicken pesto sandwich last time. It was
really fucking good. And then Alex Scott some sort of
a dipping sandwich situation, but it was really good.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
I love dipping things. I am such a dipper. Any
sort of sauce, any sort of juice. I want to
dip things with.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Some horsepdish sounds fantastic. And they had chimney cherry fries.
Oh my gosh, sounds I'm making myself.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Like popping back on our bullshit. That's tomorrow's problem. Okay,
it's me. I'm going to beat the girl with.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Like the French fry, you smell it, and then you
take a bite of like a piece of fruit or
like a broccoli, you smell the fucking French fry, eat
the broccoli.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
I feel like I eat the broccoli. Kill my love
for fries. I have a little fucking positive reinforcement Sometimes
if I can't have the things that I want to eat,
I just don't eat. Instead. I just have some olives
and then I move on with my life. Because I'm
so mad about it. I feel like I'm just being petty.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
I've been trying to do like adult versions of lunchibles
for lunch. So I'll just bring like a hummus and
then some carrots, some grapes, olives, and then meat and cheese.
Situation that way, I just don't eat a fucking sandwich
for every godamual.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
I love sandwiches so much too. I love sandwiches so.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Much, dude, it's an issue.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
You should just double down and make like double the
amount and I'll pay you to bring me a lunchible.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
I could do that. I'll bring you SIWND and then
some dark chocolate covered almonds on the side. Have a
little bit of a sweet treet but it's technically healthy.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
I love it fish because I love a sweet treat. Yeah,
I think we went over this last episode.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
I also love a sweet treat after every fucking meal.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
I just feel like it rounds it out for me.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
I need that sweetness, just a little sweet treat.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
You treat yourself sometimes sweetness on the side.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Unfortunately, every time I treat myself it's high calorie content.
I have a problem.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
It's called I need dopamine.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Real completely depleted and I need to watch Molly as
a kid or something.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
It's not right, jesues.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
On that note, what's fucking yeah, let's hop in hop
into the childhood of Aileen Mooreos Mahich. She could have
probably also used a sweet treat, a sweet treat because
she went through some ship. So Aileen Mooreos, if you
don't know, you will know a little bit more about
(05:50):
this case. By the end of this episode. She is
considered one of America's first female serial killers, right, And
the FBI was doing like this, trying to come up
with like a profile of what a typical serial killer
would be like in the eighties, and they just kind
(06:12):
of wrote off women because women are usually considered black widows.
They are killing like they typically kill their husbands for
money or no. Like in the case of Dorothea Puente's
we talked about, she is not technically considered a serial killer,
but more of like that black widow figure where.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
She's yes, exactly where in the case of Mailey Moornos,
she's considered a serial killer.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
So anyway, first I'm going to talk about her childhood
and just gonna go ahead and put a big fat
trigger warning at the top of this case. We are
going to talk about rape, incest, and abuse, and so
(07:00):
if that's not really your jam, then maybe set this
one out because there's a lot of this going on. Yeah,
if you just want to skip forward a little bit,
and you could do that too, I would say about
skip forward about a minute and then I'll do another
one for later on in the episode for the second
(07:21):
portion of it.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Anyway, ding Ding.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Aileen Carol Warnos, or Lee as her friends called her,
was born on February twenty ninth, nineteen fifty six, in Rochester, Michigan,
to Leo Dale Lorenos and Diane Morenos. Her father, Leo
was a diagnosed schizophrenic and convicted pedophile who was incarcerated
(07:45):
before she was born.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Oh my god, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
He was sentenced to life in prison at prison for
the kidnapping and rape of a seven year old girl.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Oh my god, how did he get out?
Speaker 1 (07:56):
He did not get out. So while like he had
an pregnated Diane and then got caught for this kidnapping
and rape, was incarcerated and sentenced to life. He commits
suicide in prison by hanging before Eileen like she was
an infant. So she was born and then I want
(08:18):
to say, before she was even a year old, he
ended up killing himself in prison.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Good.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Yeah, pretty much. Her mom ended up leaving her and
her brother, Keith, who was a year older than her,
with Diane's parents. So Keith and Eileen were left with
Diane's parents, and Diane just kind of like dipped, never
(08:44):
to be seen again. Yeah, with her parents moved on and.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
So kendest, do you know how old they were when
she four?
Speaker 1 (08:55):
So she was fourish, She was four and Keith was five,
and this was not a better situation for them.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
No, Bretta and Laurie were finished immigrants. These are her grandparents,
and her upbringing was characterized by severe neglect and abuse.
Her grandfather, Bretta, was reportedly physically and emotionally abusive. He additionally,
Eileen stated that he sexually abused her as well, and
(09:24):
also allowed his friends to sexually abuse her. The grandmother, Laurie,
was an alcoholic and by all accounts from like friends
and other family members, she was just completely emotionally unavailable
and kind of checked out and didn't do anything about
the abuse.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Wow, that's horrible, right, Like guess it kind of makes
sense how Diane ended up being the way she was.
It's so generational that kind of trauma, right, She's just like,
I don't want to deal with this.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
She moved on. There's we'll get into like an interview
of when Aileen gets arrested and like anyway, So this
kind of neglect and violence shaped Aileen's understanding of relationships
and it contributed to her psychological distress later in life.
So it kind of sets the stage for the way
she expects to be treated by men and just gives
(10:19):
her a very low sense of self worth. At age eleven,
Eileen was sectually assaulted by a neighborhood man who they
called the neighborhood pedophile.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Oh guys, if y'all have a neighborhood, it's time probably
move out of that fucking neighborhood. Or killed a man
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
He was also considered to be a friend of her
grandpa and then yeah, so like I said, he was
likely allowing this to happen to her, probably in the house.
She was then raped again at fourteen years old and
became pregnant. Maybe after she became pregnant, she was sent
(10:58):
to a home for unwood mothers, where she was treated
very poorly, and immediately after she gave birth to her
baby boy, who she named Keith, which was her father's name. Yeah,
she had the baby taken from her and was put
up for adoption.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Oh my god. Yeah, that's traumatic.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Very At fourteen, when she came back to her grandparents' home,
they her grandpa kicked her out and oh.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
She was upset with her Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
For being raped by his friend and becoming pregnant.
Speaker 5 (11:28):
Wow, dude.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Yeah, a lot of people think that maybe it was
actually the grandpa that got her pregnant, and so yeah,
that's horrible, man. So she ends up moving into the
woods nearby the house, and she starts engaging in sex
work for an exchange for food and shelter. There's also
(11:50):
like in the documentary that I watched, which i'll put
we'll put in the show notes, but someone said that
they would like allow her to sleep in their car
that was parked in their backyard or something like a
car that wasn't running or whatever when it was really
cold because she was in Michigan. Oh god, so really
fucking cold winter's bad environment.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Yeah, sure, well, and I just like want to point
out for everybody. I think the mor big girls say
this all the time, but like you can feel bad
for the kid who had to go through this trauma
and still not condone, right they did later in life, so.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Right, absolutely, Yeah, I'm just kind of setting the stage
for like, how help explain, yea, how it got to this,
that got to the point where, yeah, go later in life,
let's see. And she had like another friend that was
living in the woods too, and they kind of helped
(12:46):
each other out. He was outcast from society as well
as a gay man. So he remembers building like a
home out of tree stumps and them both just kind
of foraging and like looking out for one of another
out in the woods.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
That's fucking crazy. Yeah, She's just like, Okay, I guess
I'll go live in the.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Woods, right, just fighting nowhere else to go, surviving. Yeah, literally,
just like that was how she survived until she decided
to move from Michigan find somewhere warmer to live. Aileen's
(13:34):
older brother, Keith, died of esophageal cancer at just twenty
one years old, so when she was twenty, leaving her
without a friend or ally really.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
No familiar support. Yeah, and like clearly they were pretty
close because she named her baby after him.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Very yeah, very I mean they went through all of
this kind of trauma together of like being abandoned as
a baby, and I'm sure, like I'm not sure if
Keith how to experience any sexual abuse, but I'm sure
like physical and emotional abuse was on both sides. Yeah,
So I think after Keith dies, it kind of leads
(14:11):
her to want to butter her environment and instead of
having to sleep out in the cold winters in Michigan,
she's like, I want to go somewhere sunny and warm,
somewhere it's a little bit easier for her to survive.
So she starts hitchhiking down to Florida, and along the
way she's performing sex acts for money from these people,
(14:33):
like men that are picking her up. And she makes
it down to Florida and immediately she gets married to
this wealthy yacht club president who is forty nine years
her senior. His name is Lewis Gratsfell. But their relationship
would end before a full year. I think it was
(14:56):
four months after they got there now, and it is
that she actually tried she beat him over the head
with his own cane, and he filed for an annulment
as well as our starning order against her jeez. In
nineteen eighty six, Eileen meets Tyria Moore, who is a
(15:16):
hotel maid, and they both form a very romantic and
emotional relationship.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
So this is with another woman.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Tyria is also said to have like thought that Eileen
wasn't actually gay but was just seeking the approval and
companionship of someone else. And they stay together for about
four years wow, and they live in various locations including
like hotel rooms that Terrio works at and also like
(15:49):
abandoned buildings, cars sometimes.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Okay, so she's also houseless.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Okay from what it sounds like, but their relationship was
also like filled with tension and violence. Eileen supports them
by continuing with sex work and for petty theft, so
Tyria like remains by Eileen's side, even though she has
very turbulent behavior and her mental health is starting to deteriorate.
(16:18):
She allegedly doesn't know about like the darker side of
Aileen's criminal activity. By all accounts, like, Terria wasn't aware
of what ultimately transpires to get her these this money
and different items that they're selling. They end up selling
(16:39):
a lot of stolen goods at pawn chops around Florida,
and Tyria just apparently allegedly has no idea how Eileen
is coming.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
By this stuff.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Yeah, She's like, so she's just stilliing out of cars
or some shit, and you know, she's like, people are
trading yeah, or they're trading them for sex work. Yeah.
So between nineteen eighty nine and nineteen ninety, Aileen goes
on a killing spree. So within the span of a year,
she kills seven different men in the state of Florida.
These victims were typically middle aged men, many of whom
(17:17):
had picked up Eileen with the intent of eliciting her
for sex acts.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
They were all killed.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
With They were all killed in similar circumstances, and Eileen
would later state that she would engage in sexual acts
with them and then at some point during their encounter,
pull out a twenty two caliber pistol and murder them,
dump their body, use their vehicle for a short period
of time, and then abandon it. Wow. Yeah, cold blooded.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
How long was she doing it for? One year?
Speaker 1 (17:51):
So just the one year, the one year from nineteen
eighty nine to nineteen ninety. She had seven victims that
they found. Gotcha, I mean there could have been more.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
So.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
On July fourth, nineteen ninety Warnos and Tyria Moore abandoned
one of their victims vehicles, Peter Simes, after they were
involved in an accident. So they were driving around his car.
They crashed it, oh Man, And there was a witness,
Ronda Bailey, who provided the police with a description of
(18:21):
Tyria and Eileen. I guess they crashed the car, were
able to get it to start, and then they just
fucking like.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Took off, okay, like hit and run style.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
They also were like police. As they were putting together investigation,
they found some of the victims belongings, so Peter Simes
belongings in a pawn chop with Warnos's fingerprint on the
receipt and it matched another print that was left in
Peter simmes car.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Okay, so this.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Is how they link her. She's arrested on January ninth,
nineteen ninety one, at the Last Resort, bar and Lucia County, Florida.
She was apprehended after her involvement and the murders was
confirmed through forensic evidence, including the fingerprints found in stolen vehicles.
Eileen's girlfriend, Tyria, cooperated with the police, and through a
(19:09):
series of recorded phone conversations, Eileen ultimately confessed to the murders.
During the recorded phone calls with Tyria, Eileen also made
to like be very clearer that Tyria was not involved
in the killings of the men. So she took all
of the blame and was like, yeah, you didn't know
anything about it.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
It's like it's all on me. Really, do you believe them?
Speaker 1 (19:35):
I don't know, man, Tyrie's still out there, so hopefully
she's living a better life, but I don't know. I
feel like you're driving around that she had had some
sort of knowledge, And we can kind of get into
that too, because like Eileen kind of tells her two
different things about the first guy. She's like, well, I
came across his body and it was covered up by
(19:57):
this rug and so I like just went through his
pockets and found this money and this stuff. And then
later she tells her no, I killed him, oh man.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
So that her story is kind.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Of very even throughout the time that she's incarcerated, Like
you'll see that she kind of goes back and forth
on what she's saying interesting. So she was linked to
the murders of seven different men, and I'm just going
to go ahead and talk about them really quick. Her
first victim was Richard Mallory. He was a shop owner
(20:31):
fifty one years old, and allegedly he picked her up
on the side of the road of the interstate and
Eileen claimed that he okay trier rewarding. She says that
he attempted to rape her, so she shot him multiple
times in the chest. She went into great detail about
this case, saying that it kind of like kicked off
(20:54):
her whole paranoia, and that he tied her to the
steering wheel, knocked her unconscious, put like rubbing alcohol in
her eyes and like on her private area, and she
was able to get loose and ended up shooting and
killing him.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
So he was like trying to torture her, She's.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
That's what she says. There's no evidence of this. Her
second victim was David Spears, a forty three year old
construction worker who was found June first, nineteen ninety in
Citrus County. His new body was found and he had
been shot six times in torso.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
He was nude when they found him. Interesting.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Charles Carskadon was a forty year old man discovered in
Pasco County. He was a part time rodeo worker and
had been shot nine times in the chest and stomach.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
God feels like overl for like six and nine.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Troy Burris was a fifty year old salesman found August fourth,
nineteen ninety, less than a week after he was reported missing.
Though his body was fairly decomposed, medical examiner was able
to determine and his cause of death was two gunshot
wounds to the torso. Okay. Charles Dick Humphreys was a
retired Air Force major police chief and was also a
(22:09):
Florida Florida child abuse investigator. He his body was fully
clothed when they found him, but he had suffered multiple
gunshot wounds to the head and torso to the head
as well.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
His car was later.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Found in Suwannee County.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
So one of these guys was an ex cop. Do
you think that's what got them to pay closer attention?
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Potentially? I think it probably fueled the investigation. Also was
the one of the reasons why she was able.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
To get the death penalty. Gotcha, did do you know?
Did she ever say that his case was not from
like sex sex work.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
No, she said that they all tried to that's why
she shot them.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
It makes you wonder, like I wonder if he had
because you know, he was retired now, but like he
used to work with like child cases. Yeah, I wonder
if like somehow they had some interactions or something in
her past.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
I'm not sure. Interesting the film, it like portrays him
as having a wife that's disabled and that's why he's
looking for a sex worker. But I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
I'm just speculating over her, and a lot of.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
People say that he wouldn't have been picking up a
sex worker. But it's interesting. I mean, you know, maybe
she was just trying to give him a ride because
other than a lot of these cases she was hitchhiking,
not necessarily her a ride.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
And then she just was so paranoid.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Or she was like, hey, can you help me out?
She would flash this picture of these kids and try
to say that she was trying to get to her
kids and ask them if they could help her out
with some money, and then would like offer her.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
How old was she at this time? She would have
been sorry, no, it's okay, take it down.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Nineteen let's see two thousand and two.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
She was forty six.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
This was nineteen ninety, so she was out twenty.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
She's twenty eight.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Yeah, no, sorry, my mouth is really find twelve years
so she would have been thirty four. She was thirty four.
She was my age.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
So you said her dad was schizophrenic, right, did she
have any schizophrenic tendencies? Okay, because it's pretty credible.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Well, we'll get into that too. Her moods would definitely
shift really quickly, like she would be pissed one second
and then be like oh hey, yeah, no, like great
to see you, thank you. During her case as well,
like she would be screaming, belligerent and then just completely
flipped one to eighty damn. And that's another thing that
(24:40):
a lot of people kind of talk about as well,
like was she given a fair trial because of her
mental state? But I also didn't finish giving you all
of the.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Oh that's okay, victims totally interrupted, you continue, okay.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
So Peter Simes was a sixty five year year old
who was heading to New Jersey in June of nineteen ninety.
His car was found in Orange Springs on July fourth,
nineteen ninety. His body is never found, but they did
have a sighting of Eileen and Tyreea with his car
(25:17):
when they crashed it, So they're ninety nine percent sure
that she killed him and then just didn't remember where
she put the body exactly. Her last victim was Walter Antonio,
who was a sixty two year old male. His body
was found partially disrobed and he had been shot four
(25:38):
times in the back and head. His car was found
five days later in Brevard County, So there was this
kind of So the reason why they're calling her a
serial killer is because it's very much a patterned the
fact that she did seven of these and they're kind
of spaced out every couple months, every couple weeks, not months,
(26:00):
and like the same format. So she like picks up
her John, and the John picks her up, They drive
somewhere remote, they begin to start initiating the sex act,
and then she shoots and kills them, steals their belongings
in their car, and then dumps the car. So it
just because there's a pattern of behavior here, that's why overkill, Yes,
(26:22):
and the overkill indicates that she's it's the.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Height emotional right, exactly, gotcha?
Speaker 6 (26:29):
That's so crazy? It's so crazy.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
So throughout the trial, she maintains that all of the
murders were committed in self defense, claiming the men attempted
to rape her. However, investigators found that several of the
victims did not have a history of my own behavior,
which doesn't mean sh it, just means the didn't get caught,
but still, and that there was no evidence to substantiate
her claims. Additionally, in many of the cases, Eileen had
stolen money and personal belongings from the victims, suggesting that
(27:07):
financial gain might have been her primary motive, at least partially.
I think, and revenge just because of all the horrible
shit that she had to go through as a child.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
And yeah, anyway, it's like anger and like rage, yeah
for sure. Yeah, you don't shoot somebody nine times now
over to get their money. They're long dead, right, You
shoot somebody nine times because you fucking hate them, right exactly.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
That's wild. So now I'm going to get into her
psychological profile, so we'd love touch on this for a minute.
She was diagnosed with several mental health disorders, including borderline
personality disorder, antisocial personality disorder, and post traumatic stress disorder,
which contributed to her emotional instability, impulsivity and violent outbursts,
(27:59):
lack of empathy, and lack of empathy. So, borderline personality
disorder or BPD is characterized by extreme emotional reactions and
stability and relationships, and a persistent fear of abandonment, which
makes sense. Eileen exhibited all of these traits, particularly particularly
in her relationship with Tyria, with whom she became increasingly
(28:23):
emotionally dependent. Antisocial personality disorder which I never understand why
it's called this because.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Because it used to be called sociopathy. Sociopath disorder.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Symptoms that Aileen demonstrated included impulsivity, a lack of empathy,
and a disregard for societal norms. Her repeated engagement, her
repeated engagement in criminal activity, violence, and manipulation of others,
including Tyria, reflects these characteristics as well. And then post
traumatic stress disorder. Her entire life was kind of.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Is one big traumatic experience.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
Between sexual abuse, physical abuse, and neglect. She just likely
all of these things contributed to her PTSD absolutely. So
what a lot of people kind of take away from
this case too, is that this wasn't at all brought
up during her case and the they gave her like
a psychological profile that they went through like the testing
(29:25):
for it or whatever when she was arrested. But they
the court just kind of it was so sensationalized because
she was a female serial killer. Her first interviews, they
had told her her miranda rights, but she just kind
of waved them and just went off and started talking
about all the murders and she's like, I murdered with them. Yeah,
(29:45):
like I deserve to die. And this fucking interview was
leaked to the medium, so like okay, as you can imagine, yeah,
oh my god, not given a very fair trial and
that being so, like, obviously she did kill these men
in cold blood, so she deserved. She definitely deserved to
(30:06):
be present. Whether or not she deserved the death penalty,
maybe ford to be. I don't know how I feel
about the death penalty still, yeah, I'm always like I
can't give you a answer on that, like depending on
the crimes, and I could. I could get into that too,
how Florida determines whether or not an individual gets the
(30:26):
death penalty. So yeah, this case blew up and there
was a lot of media attention and people were just
like they they heard her confession obviously given to the
police without her lawyer present, and which should not have happened.
So you already have like a the jury is already
(30:47):
what's the word for that tainted taint you said, taint?
Speaker 2 (30:53):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
It doesn't give you, like a right to a fair
trial and the jury.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Help anyway.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
So obviously it didn't give her, like the jury went
into this case already knowing that she had pled guilty.
It just definitely prevented her from having fair Yeah, it
had prevented her from having a fair trial. But also
the way that she acted in court was very like Kate,
Like she was just so all over the place, very
(31:22):
like like I said, she would be screaming one minute,
claiming that all of these men attempted to rape her.
And so I don't even if I could find a
clip on this right now, but there's a clip of
her saying, like you're convicting a raped woman. I hope
all of you get raped in the ass and go
to hell. Oh my god, yeah, like very gnarly. I
(31:48):
hope you or your I think she says, your wives
or your children, and just like goes off on this
whole tangent, and then now she's leaving, she's like, okay,
thank you, like pretty narly. She also, uh, yeah, she
has this one man that she does a bunch of
different interviews with. Let me see I can find his stuff,
And in an interview with him, she says that she
(32:09):
didn't actually kill them. She killed them all in self defense,
and she claims that the reason why she pled guilty
is so that the families can rest more easily thinking
that their loved ones weren't pieces of shit, basically, that
their dads or grandpa's or husbands weren't actually attempting to
(32:30):
rape her. But she, yeah, she tries to act like
this saintly figure, acting their identity, but she also murder them.
Ornos is convicted of six of the seven murders. I'm
assuming because they couldn't find the body of the one
victim that she nobody no case. I don't think that's
a thing, really, but.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
But it kind of can be, because it's hard to
say for sure that somebody's dead.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
If there's no right, if she can't find their physical
remis wonder if they ever did find Peter. Her trial
and subsequent conviction attracted significant media attention. We already went
over that, particularly because she was a funeral Saria killer,
which is a rarity just because women are not considered Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Most of the time, Like when you think Sia killer,
are thinking Ted Bundy, right right, not thinking Aleen mooreas.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
I don't know why. I was just thinking al Bundy.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
Al Bundy, like married with children. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Anyway, like I said, throughout the trial, she maintained she
had action and self defense, but Jerry was unconvinced, and
she was sentenced to death on January twenty seventh, nineteen
ninety two.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Did how long did she remain on death row or
has she even been killed?
Speaker 1 (33:42):
She's been killed twenty twelve, I think. Okay, that is
like the end of that two thousand and two is
when she was murdered or not murdered, when she was
given lethal injections. That was only four years four and
a half years later. Yeah, they wanted to do this
really quick. So there's like a transcription of Aleen's interview
(34:04):
from the documentary Life and Death of a Serial Killer,
and this reporter.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Talks to her like the day before she's.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
Going to be hear it.
Speaker 5 (34:14):
Yeah, Okay, I got a message that Eileen wanted me
to come meet her at the local jail.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
She had something to say.
Speaker 7 (34:27):
Okay, I cannot go into execution chamber and die in
the execution chamber as a liar, and I cannot go
into execution chamber and be executed under the devil. I
have to come clean and clean, cleanse my spirit in
the name of Jesus Christ. So I have to come
clean and tell the world the lies that went on
(34:49):
to my mouth.
Speaker 4 (34:50):
I mean, now prosecutors and college.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
Yeah, I got to come claim that I.
Speaker 4 (34:59):
Killed the seven men and first degree murder and robbery.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
As they said, they had it right. It's serial killer,
not so much like thrill kill. I was into the
robin biz.
Speaker 4 (35:12):
I mean, you know serial killers are in this thrill
killing jazz. I was into the robbing just and eliminate
a witness.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
But still then again I got a number. So that's
serial killer.
Speaker 4 (35:23):
But I'm coming clean before I go in that execution
chamber and be executed that I killed him.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
And so when you met.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
Them from the beginning, did you know that you were
going to kill them.
Speaker 4 (35:34):
When they picked you up in the cause, I pretty
much I pretty much had them selected that they were
gonna die.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
But when you're saying that there was no self defense,
so there was no self defense. Yeah, there was no
self defense.
Speaker 4 (35:56):
I'm being really straight up about everything. There's no selfifous,
So I'm really sorry what happened about.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
Everything I was in this.
Speaker 4 (36:04):
To me, this world is nothing but evil, and all
of us are full of evil one way or another.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
And whatever we do, we have evil in us, all
of us do.
Speaker 4 (36:16):
And my evil we just happened to come out because
of the circumstances of what I was doing, hitchhiking hooking.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
On the road.
Speaker 4 (36:28):
I was a homeless person all my life, and then
the hitchhiging hook and I learned.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
Off the homelessness and cruising all of the.
Speaker 4 (36:35):
United States of American stuff, and so learning how to
be a hooker.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
As a hitchhiker eventually got tiring. In the end, I
carried the gun for protection.
Speaker 4 (36:46):
But then I got where I was getting a real problem,
and our rent was due twelve hundred dollars behind the
tirer was.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
Doing a lot of beer, drinking and stuff.
Speaker 4 (36:56):
She wanted to go out all the time, so she
was burning up the money I was making.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
I was making good about two three days sometimes you
know what you were doing. Yeah, I always knew everything
I was doing.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Damn sold her out, sold her out before she went in.
But at the same time, I believed Tyria got a
like plea bargain.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Because she agreed to testify. I agreed to.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
Testify and got I lean to talk, so as you
can say, she she in that interview claims that she
did it in cold blood and that none of them
tried to rape her, and it was not in self defense.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
But and that was the day before she was executing.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
And but then there's another fucking part.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Dude.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Okay, I'm probably not gonna be able to find this one,
but she talks about how after she dies. She's like,
I'm okay, I'm okay. God is going to be there,
Jesus Christ is going to be there, all the angels
and everything, and you know, whatever is on the beyond,
I think it's going to be more like Star Trek
beating me up into a space vehicle, man, and I'll
move on and recolonize another planet or whatever. But whatever
(37:58):
is on the beyond, I know what's gonna be good
because I didn't do anything as wrong as they said.
I did the right thing, and I saved a lot
of people's butts from getting hurt and raped and killed. Two.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
So she goes back and forth about these two. Do
you think that's just her trying to come like deal
with justified in her mind, or do you think that
she's doing it?
Speaker 1 (38:20):
I don't. There's some other like I don't know, Like
a lot of people are like split on this because
of like did she just kill these men for their money?
I don't think that all seven of them would have
attempted to do anything like this. So, like I said,
there was no like history of violent behavior from any
of these guys. But at the same time, it's hard
to say.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
It's really hard to say because especially back then, like
there used to be that phrase, you know, you can't
rape a sex worker.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
Right exactly, So, and that was kind of the other
thing that she brought up to She like, just because
I'm a sex worker doesn't mean that I can't get raped.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
And but I don't.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
I think that maybe the first victim have been something
weird with that one, and it kind of triggered her
PTSD and set her off on this spree of like
seven victims.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
But when it's like you said, it kind of especially
if she had some mental health tendencies associated with schizophrenia.
I know she wasn't diagnosed, but it is huge, it's
very highly hereditable. But it's possible she became super paranoid
after that and that just continued forward. So even if
(39:29):
they didn't do anything, she may have perceived, well, the threat.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
She mentioned with one man that was an ex cop,
a retired cop, that he had his gun in the
car with him and so that immediately like she was like, oh,
he's going to kill me first, So.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
He may have just been given that girl a ride
and yeah exactly, She's, oh, my god, like you're gonna
kill me? Yeah exactly.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
So she also would say that the cops had been
like following her for several months before for she was caught,
which I mean they could have been, but she talked
about there being like helicopters all over the place and
like people fucking following her and she knew it, and uh,
like I thought her phone was being tapped and all
the ship.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
I mean, it's possibles just high on paranoia.
Speaker 1 (40:18):
Yeah, high on paranoia or I mean it.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
Also sounds like she exaggerated things sometimes, So it's yes,
very much that she was just after right exactly.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
So yeah, this case is definitely one that I don't
know that anyone suggested it, but I did get her
card in my little uh set of cards that Meredith
gave us. Yeah, so I thank Meredith kind of flounced
this episode to be covered, and thanks for hanging in
(40:52):
there with us guys, Like there is a ton of
different information out there. So I will definitely send her
all the show notes case notes, and you guys can
take a look at them if you'd like. The documentary
is definitely very very fascinating Life and Death of a
serial killer, so give that a look Sie. And also
(41:15):
the movie Monster starring fucking Charlie Saram was another thing
that I watched because that was just some good fucking
cinema and Charlie Saren is amazing.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
Trued up and Christina Ricci and Christina Ricci.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
That was Christina Ritchie, wasn't it.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
Yeah? Oh my god, dude, it doesn't even look like her,
like they neither of them. I feel like so wild.
I was like, why does she look familiar?
Speaker 1 (41:35):
I was like, she's got the forehead of a Christina,
which so do I.
Speaker 3 (41:39):
But the.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
Got a like adult but anyways, if you guys have
any case corrections, if you have any suggestions, if you
have recipes, if you have copy shops, if you just
want to say fucking hello hello, hit.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
Us up on the Instagram at Scream dot and Dot Sugar,
dot podcast, Facebook, Scream and Sugar, True Crime, Coffee Hour, TikTok,
Scream Dot and Dot Sugar, or on Gmail at Scream
and Sugar Reno at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
Thanks for sticking with us until next time.
Speaker 2 (42:15):
Stay spooky y'all.
Speaker 5 (42:17):
Bye bye, m h squelch.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
Sorry, that's going at the end of the Yeah, which
is a compilation of my verbs for like the hundredth episode.
Speaker 2 (43:20):
I would absolutely do it. You go back and track
all those gone
Welcome back, everyone to another episode of Screaming Sugar, the
Chuck crime podcast that delves into the darker side of
community while savoring a little something sweet on the side.
I am your host, Candace, and I am Sahara, and
today we're going to be taking a look at the
tragic tale of Eileen Warnos. What's up, Saharah? Hello, Candace,
(00:53):
how the fuck have you been?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
I'm just a diargy and it has been a weird
world we get to live in.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Yeah, I fucking hear that. I uh just made the
realization that we're already at quarter of the way through
the fucking year. I'm twenty twenty five. It's been a
fucking roller coaster of a dumpster fire.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
So true, and a quarter of the way through that hurts,
I feel like, And yeah, so.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
It's been weird, Like I feel like the semester's kind
of flown by, just good and bad because I feel
like I'm behind but I'm not, and it's midterms and
it's spring break time, and I don't I don't know,
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Where am I just blinked? And then what time has passed?
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Where the fuck are we?
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Too far?
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Too far Anyway, today we're gonna be reviewing fucking Aikdas
in California. It's like one of my favorite stops in
between driving from Reno to Act Sacramento. And they have
like a whole market side and then they have a
(02:07):
little deli restaurant side. But I brought us some chocolate
chip cookies and some coffee cake and chocolate covered espresso beans. Ye,
and yeah, it's fucking bomb. They're a little old because
I went last week, but they're bomb stiller good.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Super good.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
I needed some hair to help me finish them before
I ate all of it in one sitting by myself
at like midnight. So thank you for your contribute, contribution.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Contribution, yes, but don't ever ever asked me to do
it again.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Okay, my last one time.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
We're hopping back on our bullshit. It's just been a
hard it's been a hard couple of months, but I.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Cope with food, so unfortunately, clearly I scarf down like
almost every single thing she brought in.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
So delicious, so good.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Really helped us with a cookie too, So thanks, will you,
I guess, I guess, But yeah, if you haven't yet
check out Aikda's it's right off the freeway. And they've
got some tasty as motherfucking sandwiches too.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Yeah, they have a Tofu burger there that is just
bomb dot com mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
I had a chicken pesto sandwich last time. It was
really fucking good. And then Alex Scott some sort of
a dipping sandwich situation, but it was really good.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
I love dipping things. I am such a dipper. Any
sort of sauce, any sort of juice. I want to
dip things with.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Some horsepdish sounds fantastic. And they had chimney cherry fries.
Oh my gosh, sounds I'm making myself.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Like popping back on our bullshit. That's tomorrow's problem. Okay,
it's me. I'm going to beat the girl with.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Like the French fry, you smell it, and then you
take a bite of like a piece of fruit or
like a broccoli, you smell the fucking French fry, eat
the broccoli.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
I feel like I eat the broccoli. Kill my love
for fries. I have a little fucking positive reinforcement Sometimes
if I can't have the things that I want to eat,
I just don't eat. Instead. I just have some olives
and then I move on with my life. Because I'm
so mad about it. I feel like I'm just being petty.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
I've been trying to do like adult versions of lunchibles
for lunch. So I'll just bring like a hummus and
then some carrots, some grapes, olives, and then meat and cheese.
Situation that way, I just don't eat a fucking sandwich
for every godamual.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
I love sandwiches so much too. I love sandwiches so.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Much, dude, it's an issue.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
You should just double down and make like double the
amount and I'll pay you to bring me a lunchible.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
I could do that. I'll bring you SIWND and then
some dark chocolate covered almonds on the side. Have a
little bit of a sweet treet but it's technically healthy.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
I love it fish because I love a sweet treat. Yeah,
I think we went over this last episode.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
I also love a sweet treat after every fucking meal.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
I just feel like it rounds it out for me.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
I need that sweetness, just a little sweet treat.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
You treat yourself sometimes sweetness on the side.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Unfortunately, every time I treat myself it's high calorie content.
I have a problem.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
It's called I need dopamine.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Real completely depleted and I need to watch Molly as
a kid or something.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
It's not right, jesues.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
On that note, what's fucking yeah, let's hop in hop
into the childhood of Aileen Mooreos Mahich. She could have
probably also used a sweet treat, a sweet treat because
she went through some ship. So Aileen Mooreos, if you
don't know, you will know a little bit more about
(05:50):
this case. By the end of this episode. She is
considered one of America's first female serial killers, right, And
the FBI was doing like this, trying to come up
with like a profile of what a typical serial killer
would be like in the eighties, and they just kind
(06:12):
of wrote off women because women are usually considered black widows.
They are killing like they typically kill their husbands for
money or no. Like in the case of Dorothea Puente's
we talked about, she is not technically considered a serial killer,
but more of like that black widow figure where.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
She's yes, exactly where in the case of Mailey Moornos,
she's considered a serial killer.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
So anyway, first I'm going to talk about her childhood
and just gonna go ahead and put a big fat
trigger warning at the top of this case. We are
going to talk about rape, incest, and abuse, and so
(07:00):
if that's not really your jam, then maybe set this
one out because there's a lot of this going on. Yeah,
if you just want to skip forward a little bit,
and you could do that too, I would say about
skip forward about a minute and then I'll do another
one for later on in the episode for the second
(07:21):
portion of it.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Anyway, ding Ding.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Aileen Carol Warnos, or Lee as her friends called her,
was born on February twenty ninth, nineteen fifty six, in Rochester, Michigan,
to Leo Dale Lorenos and Diane Morenos. Her father, Leo
was a diagnosed schizophrenic and convicted pedophile who was incarcerated
(07:45):
before she was born.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Oh my god, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
He was sentenced to life in prison at prison for
the kidnapping and rape of a seven year old girl.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Oh my god, how did he get out?
Speaker 1 (07:56):
He did not get out. So while like he had
an pregnated Diane and then got caught for this kidnapping
and rape, was incarcerated and sentenced to life. He commits
suicide in prison by hanging before Eileen like she was
an infant. So she was born and then I want
(08:18):
to say, before she was even a year old, he
ended up killing himself in prison.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Good.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Yeah, pretty much. Her mom ended up leaving her and
her brother, Keith, who was a year older than her,
with Diane's parents. So Keith and Eileen were left with
Diane's parents, and Diane just kind of like dipped, never
(08:44):
to be seen again. Yeah, with her parents moved on and.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
So kendest, do you know how old they were when
she four?
Speaker 1 (08:55):
So she was fourish, She was four and Keith was five,
and this was not a better situation for them.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
No, Bretta and Laurie were finished immigrants. These are her grandparents,
and her upbringing was characterized by severe neglect and abuse.
Her grandfather, Bretta, was reportedly physically and emotionally abusive. He additionally,
Eileen stated that he sexually abused her as well, and
(09:24):
also allowed his friends to sexually abuse her. The grandmother, Laurie,
was an alcoholic and by all accounts from like friends
and other family members, she was just completely emotionally unavailable
and kind of checked out and didn't do anything about
the abuse.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Wow, that's horrible, right, Like guess it kind of makes
sense how Diane ended up being the way she was.
It's so generational that kind of trauma, right, She's just like,
I don't want to deal with this.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
She moved on. There's we'll get into like an interview
of when Aileen gets arrested and like anyway, So this
kind of neglect and violence shaped Aileen's understanding of relationships
and it contributed to her psychological distress later in life.
So it kind of sets the stage for the way
she expects to be treated by men and just gives
(10:19):
her a very low sense of self worth. At age eleven,
Eileen was sectually assaulted by a neighborhood man who they
called the neighborhood pedophile.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Oh guys, if y'all have a neighborhood, it's time probably
move out of that fucking neighborhood. Or killed a man
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
He was also considered to be a friend of her
grandpa and then yeah, so like I said, he was
likely allowing this to happen to her, probably in the house.
She was then raped again at fourteen years old and
became pregnant. Maybe after she became pregnant, she was sent
(10:58):
to a home for unwood mothers, where she was treated
very poorly, and immediately after she gave birth to her
baby boy, who she named Keith, which was her father's name. Yeah,
she had the baby taken from her and was put
up for adoption.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Oh my god. Yeah, that's traumatic.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Very At fourteen, when she came back to her grandparents' home,
they her grandpa kicked her out and oh.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
She was upset with her Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
For being raped by his friend and becoming pregnant.
Speaker 5 (11:28):
Wow, dude.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Yeah, a lot of people think that maybe it was
actually the grandpa that got her pregnant, and so yeah,
that's horrible, man. So she ends up moving into the
woods nearby the house, and she starts engaging in sex
work for an exchange for food and shelter. There's also
(11:50):
like in the documentary that I watched, which i'll put
we'll put in the show notes, but someone said that
they would like allow her to sleep in their car
that was parked in their backyard or something like a
car that wasn't running or whatever when it was really
cold because she was in Michigan. Oh god, so really
fucking cold winter's bad environment.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Yeah, sure, well, and I just like want to point
out for everybody. I think the mor big girls say
this all the time, but like you can feel bad
for the kid who had to go through this trauma
and still not condone, right they did later in life, so.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Right, absolutely, Yeah, I'm just kind of setting the stage
for like, how help explain, yea, how it got to this,
that got to the point where, yeah, go later in life,
let's see. And she had like another friend that was
living in the woods too, and they kind of helped
(12:46):
each other out. He was outcast from society as well
as a gay man. So he remembers building like a
home out of tree stumps and them both just kind
of foraging and like looking out for one of another
out in the woods.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
That's fucking crazy. Yeah, She's just like, Okay, I guess
I'll go live in the.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Woods, right, just fighting nowhere else to go, surviving. Yeah, literally,
just like that was how she survived until she decided
to move from Michigan find somewhere warmer to live. Aileen's
(13:34):
older brother, Keith, died of esophageal cancer at just twenty
one years old, so when she was twenty, leaving her
without a friend or ally really.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
No familiar support. Yeah, and like clearly they were pretty
close because she named her baby after him.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Very yeah, very I mean they went through all of
this kind of trauma together of like being abandoned as
a baby, and I'm sure, like I'm not sure if
Keith how to experience any sexual abuse, but I'm sure
like physical and emotional abuse was on both sides. Yeah,
So I think after Keith dies, it kind of leads
(14:11):
her to want to butter her environment and instead of
having to sleep out in the cold winters in Michigan,
she's like, I want to go somewhere sunny and warm,
somewhere it's a little bit easier for her to survive.
So she starts hitchhiking down to Florida, and along the
way she's performing sex acts for money from these people,
(14:33):
like men that are picking her up. And she makes
it down to Florida and immediately she gets married to
this wealthy yacht club president who is forty nine years
her senior. His name is Lewis Gratsfell. But their relationship
would end before a full year. I think it was
(14:56):
four months after they got there now, and it is
that she actually tried she beat him over the head
with his own cane, and he filed for an annulment
as well as our starning order against her jeez. In
nineteen eighty six, Eileen meets Tyria Moore, who is a
(15:16):
hotel maid, and they both form a very romantic and
emotional relationship.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
So this is with another woman.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Tyria is also said to have like thought that Eileen
wasn't actually gay but was just seeking the approval and
companionship of someone else. And they stay together for about
four years wow, and they live in various locations including
like hotel rooms that Terrio works at and also like
(15:49):
abandoned buildings, cars sometimes.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Okay, so she's also houseless.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Okay from what it sounds like, but their relationship was
also like filled with tension and violence. Eileen supports them
by continuing with sex work and for petty theft, so
Tyria like remains by Eileen's side, even though she has
very turbulent behavior and her mental health is starting to deteriorate.
(16:18):
She allegedly doesn't know about like the darker side of
Aileen's criminal activity. By all accounts, like, Terria wasn't aware
of what ultimately transpires to get her these this money
and different items that they're selling. They end up selling
(16:39):
a lot of stolen goods at pawn chops around Florida,
and Tyria just apparently allegedly has no idea how Eileen
is coming.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
By this stuff.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Yeah, She's like, so she's just stilliing out of cars
or some shit, and you know, she's like, people are
trading yeah, or they're trading them for sex work. Yeah.
So between nineteen eighty nine and nineteen ninety, Aileen goes
on a killing spree. So within the span of a year,
she kills seven different men in the state of Florida.
These victims were typically middle aged men, many of whom
(17:17):
had picked up Eileen with the intent of eliciting her
for sex acts.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
They were all killed.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
With They were all killed in similar circumstances, and Eileen
would later state that she would engage in sexual acts
with them and then at some point during their encounter,
pull out a twenty two caliber pistol and murder them,
dump their body, use their vehicle for a short period
of time, and then abandon it. Wow. Yeah, cold blooded.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
How long was she doing it for? One year?
Speaker 1 (17:51):
So just the one year, the one year from nineteen
eighty nine to nineteen ninety. She had seven victims that
they found. Gotcha, I mean there could have been more.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
So.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
On July fourth, nineteen ninety Warnos and Tyria Moore abandoned
one of their victims vehicles, Peter Simes, after they were
involved in an accident. So they were driving around his car.
They crashed it, oh Man, And there was a witness,
Ronda Bailey, who provided the police with a description of
(18:21):
Tyria and Eileen. I guess they crashed the car, were
able to get it to start, and then they just
fucking like.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Took off, okay, like hit and run style.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
They also were like police. As they were putting together investigation,
they found some of the victims belongings, so Peter Simes
belongings in a pawn chop with Warnos's fingerprint on the
receipt and it matched another print that was left in
Peter simmes car.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Okay, so this.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Is how they link her. She's arrested on January ninth,
nineteen ninety one, at the Last Resort, bar and Lucia County, Florida.
She was apprehended after her involvement and the murders was
confirmed through forensic evidence, including the fingerprints found in stolen vehicles.
Eileen's girlfriend, Tyria, cooperated with the police, and through a
(19:09):
series of recorded phone conversations, Eileen ultimately confessed to the murders.
During the recorded phone calls with Tyria, Eileen also made
to like be very clearer that Tyria was not involved
in the killings of the men. So she took all
of the blame and was like, yeah, you didn't know
anything about it.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
It's like it's all on me. Really, do you believe them?
Speaker 1 (19:35):
I don't know, man, Tyrie's still out there, so hopefully
she's living a better life, but I don't know. I
feel like you're driving around that she had had some
sort of knowledge, And we can kind of get into
that too, because like Eileen kind of tells her two
different things about the first guy. She's like, well, I
came across his body and it was covered up by
(19:57):
this rug and so I like just went through his
pockets and found this money and this stuff. And then
later she tells her no, I killed him, oh man.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
So that her story is kind.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Of very even throughout the time that she's incarcerated, Like
you'll see that she kind of goes back and forth
on what she's saying interesting. So she was linked to
the murders of seven different men, and I'm just going
to go ahead and talk about them really quick. Her
first victim was Richard Mallory. He was a shop owner
(20:31):
fifty one years old, and allegedly he picked her up
on the side of the road of the interstate and
Eileen claimed that he okay trier rewarding. She says that
he attempted to rape her, so she shot him multiple
times in the chest. She went into great detail about
this case, saying that it kind of like kicked off
(20:54):
her whole paranoia, and that he tied her to the
steering wheel, knocked her unconscious, put like rubbing alcohol in
her eyes and like on her private area, and she
was able to get loose and ended up shooting and
killing him.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
So he was like trying to torture her, She's.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
That's what she says. There's no evidence of this. Her
second victim was David Spears, a forty three year old
construction worker who was found June first, nineteen ninety in
Citrus County. His new body was found and he had
been shot six times in torso.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
He was nude when they found him. Interesting.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Charles Carskadon was a forty year old man discovered in
Pasco County. He was a part time rodeo worker and
had been shot nine times in the chest and stomach.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
God feels like overl for like six and nine.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Troy Burris was a fifty year old salesman found August fourth,
nineteen ninety, less than a week after he was reported missing.
Though his body was fairly decomposed, medical examiner was able
to determine and his cause of death was two gunshot
wounds to the torso. Okay. Charles Dick Humphreys was a
retired Air Force major police chief and was also a
(22:09):
Florida Florida child abuse investigator. He his body was fully
clothed when they found him, but he had suffered multiple
gunshot wounds to the head and torso to the head
as well.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
His car was later.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Found in Suwannee County.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
So one of these guys was an ex cop. Do
you think that's what got them to pay closer attention?
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Potentially? I think it probably fueled the investigation. Also was
the one of the reasons why she was able.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
To get the death penalty. Gotcha, did do you know?
Did she ever say that his case was not from
like sex sex work.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
No, she said that they all tried to that's why
she shot them.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
It makes you wonder, like I wonder if he had
because you know, he was retired now, but like he
used to work with like child cases. Yeah, I wonder
if like somehow they had some interactions or something in
her past.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
I'm not sure. Interesting the film, it like portrays him
as having a wife that's disabled and that's why he's
looking for a sex worker. But I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
I'm just speculating over her, and a lot of.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
People say that he wouldn't have been picking up a
sex worker. But it's interesting. I mean, you know, maybe
she was just trying to give him a ride because
other than a lot of these cases she was hitchhiking,
not necessarily her a ride.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
And then she just was so paranoid.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Or she was like, hey, can you help me out?
She would flash this picture of these kids and try
to say that she was trying to get to her
kids and ask them if they could help her out
with some money, and then would like offer her.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
How old was she at this time? She would have
been sorry, no, it's okay, take it down.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Nineteen let's see two thousand and two.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
She was forty six.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
This was nineteen ninety, so she was out twenty.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
She's twenty eight.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Yeah, no, sorry, my mouth is really find twelve years
so she would have been thirty four. She was thirty four.
She was my age.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
So you said her dad was schizophrenic, right, did she
have any schizophrenic tendencies? Okay, because it's pretty credible.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Well, we'll get into that too. Her moods would definitely
shift really quickly, like she would be pissed one second
and then be like oh hey, yeah, no, like great
to see you, thank you. During her case as well,
like she would be screaming, belligerent and then just completely
flipped one to eighty damn. And that's another thing that
(24:40):
a lot of people kind of talk about as well,
like was she given a fair trial because of her
mental state? But I also didn't finish giving you all
of the.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Oh that's okay, victims totally interrupted, you continue, okay.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
So Peter Simes was a sixty five year year old
who was heading to New Jersey in June of nineteen ninety.
His car was found in Orange Springs on July fourth,
nineteen ninety. His body is never found, but they did
have a sighting of Eileen and Tyreea with his car
(25:17):
when they crashed it, So they're ninety nine percent sure
that she killed him and then just didn't remember where
she put the body exactly. Her last victim was Walter Antonio,
who was a sixty two year old male. His body
was found partially disrobed and he had been shot four
(25:38):
times in the back and head. His car was found
five days later in Brevard County, So there was this
kind of So the reason why they're calling her a
serial killer is because it's very much a patterned the
fact that she did seven of these and they're kind
of spaced out every couple months, every couple weeks, not months,
(26:00):
and like the same format. So she like picks up
her John, and the John picks her up, They drive
somewhere remote, they begin to start initiating the sex act,
and then she shoots and kills them, steals their belongings
in their car, and then dumps the car. So it
just because there's a pattern of behavior here, that's why overkill, Yes,
(26:22):
and the overkill indicates that she's it's the.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Height emotional right, exactly, gotcha?
Speaker 6 (26:29):
That's so crazy? It's so crazy.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
So throughout the trial, she maintains that all of the
murders were committed in self defense, claiming the men attempted
to rape her. However, investigators found that several of the
victims did not have a history of my own behavior,
which doesn't mean sh it, just means the didn't get caught,
but still, and that there was no evidence to substantiate
her claims. Additionally, in many of the cases, Eileen had
stolen money and personal belongings from the victims, suggesting that
(27:07):
financial gain might have been her primary motive, at least partially.
I think, and revenge just because of all the horrible
shit that she had to go through as a child.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
And yeah, anyway, it's like anger and like rage, yeah
for sure. Yeah, you don't shoot somebody nine times now
over to get their money. They're long dead, right, You
shoot somebody nine times because you fucking hate them, right exactly.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
That's wild. So now I'm going to get into her
psychological profile, so we'd love touch on this for a minute.
She was diagnosed with several mental health disorders, including borderline
personality disorder, antisocial personality disorder, and post traumatic stress disorder,
which contributed to her emotional instability, impulsivity and violent outbursts,
(27:59):
lack of empathy, and lack of empathy. So, borderline personality
disorder or BPD is characterized by extreme emotional reactions and
stability and relationships, and a persistent fear of abandonment, which
makes sense. Eileen exhibited all of these traits, particularly particularly
in her relationship with Tyria, with whom she became increasingly
(28:23):
emotionally dependent. Antisocial personality disorder which I never understand why
it's called this because.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Because it used to be called sociopathy. Sociopath disorder.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Symptoms that Aileen demonstrated included impulsivity, a lack of empathy,
and a disregard for societal norms. Her repeated engagement, her
repeated engagement in criminal activity, violence, and manipulation of others,
including Tyria, reflects these characteristics as well. And then post
traumatic stress disorder. Her entire life was kind of.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Is one big traumatic experience.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
Between sexual abuse, physical abuse, and neglect. She just likely
all of these things contributed to her PTSD absolutely. So
what a lot of people kind of take away from
this case too, is that this wasn't at all brought
up during her case and the they gave her like
a psychological profile that they went through like the testing
(29:25):
for it or whatever when she was arrested. But they
the court just kind of it was so sensationalized because
she was a female serial killer. Her first interviews, they
had told her her miranda rights, but she just kind
of waved them and just went off and started talking
about all the murders and she's like, I murdered with them. Yeah,
(29:45):
like I deserve to die. And this fucking interview was
leaked to the medium, so like okay, as you can imagine, yeah,
oh my god, not given a very fair trial and
that being so, like, obviously she did kill these men
in cold blood, so she deserved. She definitely deserved to
(30:06):
be present. Whether or not she deserved the death penalty,
maybe ford to be. I don't know how I feel
about the death penalty still, yeah, I'm always like I
can't give you a answer on that, like depending on
the crimes, and I could. I could get into that too,
how Florida determines whether or not an individual gets the
(30:26):
death penalty. So yeah, this case blew up and there
was a lot of media attention and people were just
like they they heard her confession obviously given to the
police without her lawyer present, and which should not have happened.
So you already have like a the jury is already
(30:47):
what's the word for that tainted taint you said, taint?
Speaker 2 (30:53):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
It doesn't give you, like a right to a fair
trial and the jury.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Help anyway.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
So obviously it didn't give her, like the jury went
into this case already knowing that she had pled guilty.
It just definitely prevented her from having fair Yeah, it
had prevented her from having a fair trial. But also
the way that she acted in court was very like Kate,
Like she was just so all over the place, very
(31:22):
like like I said, she would be screaming one minute,
claiming that all of these men attempted to rape her.
And so I don't even if I could find a
clip on this right now, but there's a clip of
her saying, like you're convicting a raped woman. I hope
all of you get raped in the ass and go
to hell. Oh my god, yeah, like very gnarly. I
(31:48):
hope you or your I think she says, your wives
or your children, and just like goes off on this
whole tangent, and then now she's leaving, she's like, okay,
thank you, like pretty narly. She also, uh, yeah, she
has this one man that she does a bunch of
different interviews with. Let me see I can find his stuff,
And in an interview with him, she says that she
(32:09):
didn't actually kill them. She killed them all in self defense,
and she claims that the reason why she pled guilty
is so that the families can rest more easily thinking
that their loved ones weren't pieces of shit, basically, that
their dads or grandpa's or husbands weren't actually attempting to
(32:30):
rape her. But she, yeah, she tries to act like
this saintly figure, acting their identity, but she also murder them.
Ornos is convicted of six of the seven murders. I'm
assuming because they couldn't find the body of the one
victim that she nobody no case. I don't think that's
a thing, really, but.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
But it kind of can be, because it's hard to
say for sure that somebody's dead.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
If there's no right, if she can't find their physical
remis wonder if they ever did find Peter. Her trial
and subsequent conviction attracted significant media attention. We already went
over that, particularly because she was a funeral Saria killer,
which is a rarity just because women are not considered Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Most of the time, Like when you think Sia killer,
are thinking Ted Bundy, right right, not thinking Aleen mooreas.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
I don't know why. I was just thinking al Bundy.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
Al Bundy, like married with children. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Anyway, like I said, throughout the trial, she maintained she
had action and self defense, but Jerry was unconvinced, and
she was sentenced to death on January twenty seventh, nineteen
ninety two.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Did how long did she remain on death row or
has she even been killed?
Speaker 1 (33:42):
She's been killed twenty twelve, I think. Okay, that is
like the end of that two thousand and two is
when she was murdered or not murdered, when she was
given lethal injections. That was only four years four and
a half years later. Yeah, they wanted to do this
really quick. So there's like a transcription of Aleen's interview
(34:04):
from the documentary Life and Death of a Serial Killer,
and this reporter.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Talks to her like the day before she's.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
Going to be hear it.
Speaker 5 (34:14):
Yeah, Okay, I got a message that Eileen wanted me
to come meet her at the local jail.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
She had something to say.
Speaker 7 (34:27):
Okay, I cannot go into execution chamber and die in
the execution chamber as a liar, and I cannot go
into execution chamber and be executed under the devil. I
have to come clean and clean, cleanse my spirit in
the name of Jesus Christ. So I have to come
clean and tell the world the lies that went on
(34:49):
to my mouth.
Speaker 4 (34:50):
I mean, now prosecutors and college.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
Yeah, I got to come claim that I.
Speaker 4 (34:59):
Killed the seven men and first degree murder and robbery.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
As they said, they had it right. It's serial killer,
not so much like thrill kill. I was into the
robin biz.
Speaker 4 (35:12):
I mean, you know serial killers are in this thrill
killing jazz. I was into the robbing just and eliminate
a witness.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
But still then again I got a number. So that's
serial killer.
Speaker 4 (35:23):
But I'm coming clean before I go in that execution
chamber and be executed that I killed him.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
And so when you met.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
Them from the beginning, did you know that you were
going to kill them.
Speaker 4 (35:34):
When they picked you up in the cause, I pretty
much I pretty much had them selected that they were
gonna die.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
But when you're saying that there was no self defense,
so there was no self defense. Yeah, there was no
self defense.
Speaker 4 (35:56):
I'm being really straight up about everything. There's no selfifous,
So I'm really sorry what happened about.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
Everything I was in this.
Speaker 4 (36:04):
To me, this world is nothing but evil, and all
of us are full of evil one way or another.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
And whatever we do, we have evil in us, all
of us do.
Speaker 4 (36:16):
And my evil we just happened to come out because
of the circumstances of what I was doing, hitchhiking hooking.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
On the road.
Speaker 4 (36:28):
I was a homeless person all my life, and then
the hitchhiging hook and I learned.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
Off the homelessness and cruising all of the.
Speaker 4 (36:35):
United States of American stuff, and so learning how to
be a hooker.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
As a hitchhiker eventually got tiring. In the end, I
carried the gun for protection.
Speaker 4 (36:46):
But then I got where I was getting a real problem,
and our rent was due twelve hundred dollars behind the
tirer was.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
Doing a lot of beer, drinking and stuff.
Speaker 4 (36:56):
She wanted to go out all the time, so she
was burning up the money I was making.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
I was making good about two three days sometimes you
know what you were doing. Yeah, I always knew everything
I was doing.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Damn sold her out, sold her out before she went in.
But at the same time, I believed Tyria got a
like plea bargain.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Because she agreed to testify. I agreed to.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
Testify and got I lean to talk, so as you
can say, she she in that interview claims that she
did it in cold blood and that none of them
tried to rape her, and it was not in self defense.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
But and that was the day before she was executing.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
And but then there's another fucking part.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Dude.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Okay, I'm probably not gonna be able to find this one,
but she talks about how after she dies. She's like,
I'm okay, I'm okay. God is going to be there,
Jesus Christ is going to be there, all the angels
and everything, and you know, whatever is on the beyond,
I think it's going to be more like Star Trek
beating me up into a space vehicle, man, and I'll
move on and recolonize another planet or whatever. But whatever
(37:58):
is on the beyond, I know what's gonna be good
because I didn't do anything as wrong as they said.
I did the right thing, and I saved a lot
of people's butts from getting hurt and raped and killed. Two.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
So she goes back and forth about these two. Do
you think that's just her trying to come like deal
with justified in her mind, or do you think that
she's doing it?
Speaker 1 (38:20):
I don't. There's some other like I don't know, Like
a lot of people are like split on this because
of like did she just kill these men for their money?
I don't think that all seven of them would have
attempted to do anything like this. So, like I said,
there was no like history of violent behavior from any
of these guys. But at the same time, it's hard
to say.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
It's really hard to say because especially back then, like
there used to be that phrase, you know, you can't
rape a sex worker.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
Right exactly, So, and that was kind of the other
thing that she brought up to She like, just because
I'm a sex worker doesn't mean that I can't get raped.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
And but I don't.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
I think that maybe the first victim have been something
weird with that one, and it kind of triggered her
PTSD and set her off on this spree of like
seven victims.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
But when it's like you said, it kind of especially
if she had some mental health tendencies associated with schizophrenia.
I know she wasn't diagnosed, but it is huge, it's
very highly hereditable. But it's possible she became super paranoid
after that and that just continued forward. So even if
(39:29):
they didn't do anything, she may have perceived, well, the threat.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
She mentioned with one man that was an ex cop,
a retired cop, that he had his gun in the
car with him and so that immediately like she was like, oh,
he's going to kill me first, So.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
He may have just been given that girl a ride
and yeah exactly, She's, oh, my god, like you're gonna
kill me? Yeah exactly.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
So she also would say that the cops had been
like following her for several months before for she was caught,
which I mean they could have been, but she talked
about there being like helicopters all over the place and
like people fucking following her and she knew it, and uh,
like I thought her phone was being tapped and all
the ship.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
I mean, it's possibles just high on paranoia.
Speaker 1 (40:18):
Yeah, high on paranoia or I mean it.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
Also sounds like she exaggerated things sometimes, So it's yes,
very much that she was just after right exactly.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
So yeah, this case is definitely one that I don't
know that anyone suggested it, but I did get her
card in my little uh set of cards that Meredith
gave us. Yeah, so I thank Meredith kind of flounced
this episode to be covered, and thanks for hanging in
(40:52):
there with us guys, Like there is a ton of
different information out there. So I will definitely send her
all the show notes case notes, and you guys can
take a look at them if you'd like. The documentary
is definitely very very fascinating Life and Death of a
serial killer, so give that a look Sie. And also
(41:15):
the movie Monster starring fucking Charlie Saram was another thing
that I watched because that was just some good fucking
cinema and Charlie Saren is amazing.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
Trued up and Christina Ricci and Christina Ricci.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
That was Christina Ritchie, wasn't it.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
Yeah? Oh my god, dude, it doesn't even look like her,
like they neither of them. I feel like so wild.
I was like, why does she look familiar?
Speaker 1 (41:35):
I was like, she's got the forehead of a Christina,
which so do I.
Speaker 3 (41:39):
But the.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
Got a like adult but anyways, if you guys have
any case corrections, if you have any suggestions, if you
have recipes, if you have copy shops, if you just
want to say fucking hello hello, hit.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
Us up on the Instagram at Scream dot and Dot Sugar,
dot podcast, Facebook, Scream and Sugar, True Crime, Coffee Hour, TikTok,
Scream Dot and Dot Sugar, or on Gmail at Scream
and Sugar Reno at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
Thanks for sticking with us until next time.
Speaker 2 (42:15):
Stay spooky y'all.
Speaker 5 (42:17):
Bye bye, m h squelch.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
Sorry, that's going at the end of the Yeah, which
is a compilation of my verbs for like the hundredth episode.
Speaker 2 (43:20):
I would absolutely do it. You go back and track
all those gone
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