June 5, 2025 • 44 mins
Welcome back, Spooky Squad, to Scream and Sugar - your true crime coffee hour. This week, we’re heading to Houston, Texas, to uncover the chilling mystery of the Icebox Murders—a gruesome 1965 double homicide that left investigators reeling.
When police forced entry into the home of elderly couple Fred and Edwina Rogers, what they found inside the refrigerator shocked even seasoned detectives. But the most haunting part? Their reclusive son, Charles, had vanished, leaving behind a house full of clues, cryptic diary entries, and conspiracy theories that converge on the JFK assassination (!). Join us as we untangle the twisted tale of paranoia, espionage, and family secrets. Was Charles Rogers a cold-blooded killer, or was he running from something even darker? Grab your coffee and hang with us as we munch on snacks from Ikeda's in Auburn, CA—this one’s a doozy.
And remember to stay spooky, y'all!!
Case Notes:
https://www.ikedas.com/
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/scream-and-sugar-true-crime-coffee-hour--6015946/support.
When police forced entry into the home of elderly couple Fred and Edwina Rogers, what they found inside the refrigerator shocked even seasoned detectives. But the most haunting part? Their reclusive son, Charles, had vanished, leaving behind a house full of clues, cryptic diary entries, and conspiracy theories that converge on the JFK assassination (!). Join us as we untangle the twisted tale of paranoia, espionage, and family secrets. Was Charles Rogers a cold-blooded killer, or was he running from something even darker? Grab your coffee and hang with us as we munch on snacks from Ikeda's in Auburn, CA—this one’s a doozy.
And remember to stay spooky, y'all!!
Case Notes:
https://www.ikedas.com/
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/scream-and-sugar-true-crime-coffee-hour--6015946/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome back, everyone to another episode of Scream and Sugar,
the podcast that dives into the darker side of humanity
while savoring a little sweetness on the side. I'm Candace,
I'm Sahara, and today we're going to be talking about
the ice box murders.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Oh you're ready for this, I felink you should know
(00:53):
that today is National Puffin Day.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
I love puffins. Oh yeah, State Bird of Alaska it is. Yeah.
I would see them all the time when I would
drive into town an Anchorage.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Wait, you're not from Anchorage. Why do I always say
that to you?
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Because it's a big city and Kodiak's not.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
I just think like, puffins are cool.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Puffins are hell cool and they're cute and I want
to make friends with them all. But they're so cute.
You'd see them like hopping around on the rocks by
the canneries to try and get some fish. I don't
have never had a negative experience with the puffin but.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
They just feel like I feel like animals actually to
be kind of sassy.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Yeah, because they know they I see. I can catch
my reflection in the water. I'm kiss fuck, I'm kiss fuck.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Chickies like cheeseburger birds burger. Yeah, they are like the
cutest animals. I have every love that you said that.
That's Alex the other day and he just kind of
looked at me weird, and I was like, it sounds
like they're saying cheeseburger. There's one outside my back door
right now. Due that's that's a mountain Chickaye babe, cheese.
And they are fucking vicious. They're Hell Territory, so cute.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
I just want a fucking cheeseburger the same. I'm so stupid.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
I don't know why I thought you were doing the
toy box murders.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
No, not yet. I would have to focus one.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
No, this one's still pretty nearly but not nearly as
narly as the toy box.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Why does the icebox sounds the icebox killer sounds so
familiar to me? I don't know. I guess we'll find
out when.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
I You know what's crazy is I used to watch
watch Dexter a lot, and there was the ice Truck Killer.
That fucking shit stuck with me because gnarly not that case.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
So got really into that show, like in two thousand
and eight.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Yeah, summer, yeah, exactly, summer around there not maybe a
little bit later. For me. I feel like it was
like twenty ten, but I liked it. Dexter Morgan so hot.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Right now they're like redoing it or something.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
They so they re they made a new it's like
a prequel, but it's him like growing up.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Oh interesting, Actually, you know I would watch that probably right.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Same tell us about where the new Radical Cat location
is at.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Yeah, oh my gosh, you guys. So you guys may recall, yes,
update update, you guys may recall. Back when we covered
Magpie Coffee Roasters, we also stopped in that the Radical
Cat because we thought the Radical Cat was the coffee shop,
but it wasn't. So the Radical Cat, which is a
local bookstore. They do books, art and then they have
(03:41):
cats that you can come in and like read with
and potentially adopt. But they moved so now they are
located actually really close to where they were before, but
now they're at fifteen hundred South Virginia Street, so it's
actually on Virginia And their new location is absolutely beautiful.
It's even bigger than it was before. And they are
(04:04):
sharing their space now with Fine Tooth Records, so it's
a new record stop. So I thought that was really cool.
Huge shout out to the Radical Cat. They hooked us
up with some like a book and a little gift
card for my university raffle that we're doing for grad students.
(04:24):
So I went down there to pick it up and
I was like, oh my god, this new location is amazing.
So I wanted to let you guys know also, so
you can go down and look at some records and
potentially get a good book and hang out with some cats.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Yeah, support that business because that's such a great business model.
Cats and records and books. Oh my, that sounds amazing.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
And they're just so so nice, such nice people in
there too, so huge shadow helly. Other than that, well,
I guess.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
You're going to get into it. I feel like this
is one might be a half calf, so just put
a pin in that because uh spoil.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
It's unsolved, unsolved.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
In the primary suspect vanished without a trace, So suspicious,
very suspicious. I don't remember where I heard this case room.
I feel like it was probably from the Morbid Girlies,
but a bunch of smaller podcasts I was listening to
like episodes today trying to put together the pieces of
(05:27):
this case, because I procrastinated and have been going through
a lot, and so I just was not looking to
look at something so dismal at the moment. But anyway,
but she's here for us. But I'm here, and we're
gonna fucking get through this together, y'all. So let's just
fucking jump on in do it. June twenty third, nineteen
(05:49):
sixty five, the police were called to do a wellness
check on Fred and Edwina Rogers. They hadn't been heard
from in a couple of days. Edwina Rogers was working
as a cleaning supply salesperson and her one of her
co workers had to realize that she hadn't been shown
(06:11):
up for work, she hadn't called in. It's very unlike her.
And so this coworker ends up reaching out to her nephew, Marvin.
His name is Marvin, and I said Marvin Martin, and
I was like, that's a little bit close to Marvin Marshaan.
So I've heard it was Marvin Martin, and I've heard
Marvin Mattlin, So we're just gonna call him Martin, Marvin.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Marvin, Marvin Martin Martin.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
And Marvin was really close with his aunt and uncle.
He went and visited Fred and Edwina like almost weekly.
He talked to his aunt three times a week about
and when he wasn't hearing back from her, he also
grew concerned, so he reached out to the Houston Police
Department and them to go over and do a welfare
(07:01):
check on his aunt and uncle. He called them from
a payphone, which I thought was kind of weird, But anyway,
the police head over to the house and they go
knock on the door. They don't receive any answer. They
notice that all the blinds are drawn, and there's some
(07:22):
newspapers that have been in mail that have been stacking
up outside. They're not immediately alarmed by this. They think
that maybe Fred and Edwena Rodgers had gone for a
vacation last minute and just hadn't noticed, like notified anyone,
which is weird because they're old and I feel like
they would be more responsible than that. But anyway, I
(07:46):
don't know either way. So they look around, they try
to see if they can like peek into the windows.
They noticed that in the driveway their car is up
on blocks, so it's not going anywhere, and they're not
going anywhere, not going anyway fast, not going anyway fast.
They go around back. There is a back door that
(08:07):
leads into the house, and they can kind of see it.
It doesn't look like anything's out of the out of
the norm. There's not like no one's ransacked the house.
Nothing is like really sticking out to them. Still, at
this point, the back door is a little bit of jar,
and when they try to open it, it's not moving
(08:30):
oh easily, So there's something blocking it. This, for some
reason makes them want to inch of the house. I
don't know, like what the procedure is for a wellness check,
Like if it's no one's responding, I think they're able
to actually then push it open.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Still, I think if the door's open, they can let
themselves let them. I think it's if the door's locked,
then they have to get a warrant.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Okay, so the door is not locked, it is a jar,
but there's also a bunch of heavy flower pots on
the inside that are preventing them from going in.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Oh that's kind of weird. Yeah, okay, any lawyer listeners.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
But I'm also like, yeah, yeah, so if it's not
like easily, you're not easily able to open the door.
They still able to force their entry.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
So weird, yeah, without probable cause.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Nineteen sixty five. I don't know, maybe a lots of
different now. Anyway, one officer goes upstairs, the other one
stays on the main floor, and they're just kind of
snooping around to see what they can find. Both of
them don't see, like I said, anything out of the ordinary,
Like it just looks like it's been lived in. It's
not exactly like pristinely clean. There's a little bit of
(09:44):
clutter here and there, okay, but nothing like overwhelmingly pointing
towards a struggle. They don't find Fred and Edwena. So
the officer on the ground floor, for some reason, he
goes into the kitchen. There's like an overwhelming smell of
bleach and there's a bleaked bleach jug and other cleaning products.
(10:05):
But remember Edwin knows a cleaning supply salesperson.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
You said that the rest of the house was like
average clean, in the kitchen was just bleach smell.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Well, then apparently they also had a housekeeper too, so like,
how often is the housekeeper coming over? But if they're
not answering the door, does she have a keel herself?
And I don't know. These are all the questions that
I would ask, But it's an old ass case fair
enough anyway, So what the officers notices that there's a
(10:34):
plate of beans sitting on the table that had been
there for a little bit, maybe like a day though,
so he's not thinking like it's not rotting or anything,
and he's like, Okay, that's kind of weird. Why would
you to leave a plate of beans on the on
the table?
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Man? Would they be surprised?
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Beside?
Speaker 2 (10:53):
After a long weekend.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
I had a roommate that used to keep like pizza
boxes underneath her bed, and I she like, I think
she had to go to rehab or some shit, and
I was cleaning her room out and it was just
fucking so much weird mold going on under that bed.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Well she probably had mold disease in her brain.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Possibly, I don't know. Anyway, so wild Apparently a plate
of beans on the table wasn't enough to raise a larm.
But anyway, the officer is like still thinking like nothing.
He's like, I don't know, like there's nothing to be found.
There's the other officer comes down and I guess there's
a door upstairs that is locked from the inside that
they can't get into. And uh, for whatever reason, this
(11:40):
officer pulls open the fridge. He was looking for a beer, dude, Yeah,
that's what someone says. He was probably looking for a
cold drink. It was in the middle of summer. I
mean it's June and fucking Houston, Texas probably hot as balls, probably,
you know. So he just like, without really like expecting anything,
he opens up the fridge and he kinda is taken
(12:04):
back because there's all of these neatly cleaned segments of
what he believes to be hog and he's like, oh, man, like, well,
if they did leave for a vacation, that's a shame
because all of this fresh meat is gonna spoil soon.
Oh my god. And that's what he thinks. He's just
like that's his first thought. It's like, oh man, this
(12:25):
looks like hog meat. He goes to close the door
and his eyes kind of drift downwards to where the
vegetable crisper drawer is and he sees two fucking human
eyes looking up.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
My fucking god. Oh my goosies are crazy.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
So he sees his pear of brown eyes looking up
at him, and.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Through the Crisp.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Marvin apparently is still outside waiting to hear about his
aunt and uncle, and they ask him to come inside.
What to identify a body?
Speaker 2 (13:03):
What in the hell, Houston?
Speaker 1 (13:05):
And it's just one body so far, they think.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
So I'm sorry. They call the drawer. They pulled the
head on there, like.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
They don't pull the head out. They go out to
their car and they call for backup. They're like, we
need back up on the scene. There is a dismembered
body in the ice box.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Oh my, I cannot believe they did that to him.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
But yeah, they asked Marvin to identify his aunt and
he says, that's my They want to rule him out
as a suspect, is what the cop says. They want
to rule him out as a suspect because remember he
called from a pay phone. They just want to make
sure that there's no foul play on his end, which
I think is so fucked.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
And so they do that by forcing him to look
at that.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
They let him know that there's a body and we
just need you to identify it.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
But wasn't there another case that we looked at where
they did something similar. They had somebody come in and
identify on site, like, yeah, I can't.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
I think it's totally inappropriate and inappropriate, but they just
wanted to see how he would react, and he like
freaked out. Obviously, that's very fucking traumatic, very fucking traumatic. Like,
don't do that. That poor any cops if you're listening,
don't fucking do that.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
It's so ungalled for it.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
But yeah, they're they're all fucking freaked out. They bring
in a medical examiner and are working to locate any
evidence of like where the Edwina was murdered, and they're
looking for Fred still. Oh, so they find Fred. He's
(14:58):
in the next box underneath Edwina and his head is
wrapped in a plastic bag, but his eyes have been
gouged out.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Oh god, the eyes.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Yeah, okay, I don't know if they find the eyes either.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
God Texans, goddamn Texans and their goddamn eyeballs.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
So they're tasked with kind of figuring out what part
of the body goes to what person. Their torsos are there,
their thighs are there, so they'd been sectioned off, but
like pretty clean cuts, and they'd also been like the
skin had been removed, so all the organs had been
(15:40):
removed they can't find the organs im.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
In the house.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Yes, so they they look. There is like a small
amount of blood that goes into the bathroom, like a
little bit of like blood drippage, but not someone tried
to say it was like a trail of blood. But
there's like literally hardly any fucking evidence in the house
(16:07):
as far as like where exactly they were murdered. The
autopsy finds that Edwina had actually been shot in the
head execution style, but that she didn't die right away.
It was like twenty minutes later that she died, and
she also sustained some uh like she fought back basically
(16:28):
as I was saying, she had like some self defense wounds.
Fred on the other hand, had blunt force trauma to
his head and didn't show signs of a struggle, but
had severe like trauma to his body, and his genitalia
had also been removed, so his eyes are garaged out
(16:51):
as danitalia was removed, blunt force trauma to the head, and.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
That he was beating the time.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Yes, it was it was postmortem that hist and italia
was removed, yes, and then then they were just remembered.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
And his wife, Edwina Edwena. She was shot execution style
front or back of the head or whatever, the head,
back of the head, but.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
She did not kill her. Yeah, that was not what
killed her. Blood loss, I don't know, that's a good question.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Okay, interesting. No, I'm just like so curious because what the.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Fuck I know. So we'll kind of get into that
a little bit later on in the case. But uh so, Yeah,
they find like trace amounts of blood on the lock
door that's upstairs. So they get in there and they
find that the couple's son, Charles Rogers, who was forty
(17:53):
three at the time. So Edwina was seventy two and
Fred was eighty one and at the time of death,
and their son Charles is forty three. No one in
the neighborhood knew that Charles lived with them, and he
was kind of this reclusive figure to those that did
know him, Like apparently he would get up at dawn,
(18:17):
leave the house and wouldn't come back until dusk, so
he was out of the house pretty much the entire time,
the waking hours of Adwena and Fred. He was not there.
And we'll get into why that is the thing as well.
But a lot of the neighbors did not realize that
they had a son, did not realize that he was
living with them, and Edwina and Fred never mentioned him
(18:38):
to anyone.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Did he have a car? Yes, so like was the
car there?
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Yeah, I guess I might have been the one of
bomb blocks. I don't know, or maybe he would get
a taxi. I'm not sure about the weird I mean
that's important and I shouldn't say yes to the car.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
I'll just cut that question. And I was just curious, like,
so do you not know?
Speaker 3 (18:57):
Right?
Speaker 1 (18:57):
There was like one neighbor that had said that you
had seen a man that had the same uh profile
as him walking the neighborhood at night sometimes, but didn't
know that that was Ed, Edwina and Fred's son.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
So he maybe like got up a dawn, walked off
into the fucking.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
When he caught a bus or a cab and then
that's how he came back in potentially catching a bus.
Uh yeah, very interesting. They get into the room and
they find a keyhole drill and a gun with one
round missing from the chamber, and they also see that
(19:37):
there's a hot plate and it there's dishes, so it
looks like Charles was kind of like keeping to himself,
didn't really interact with his family members, his mother and
his dad, and from what another relative had said is
that they hadn't spoken face to face in five years.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
What the fuck?
Speaker 1 (19:57):
And apparently Charles when they did want to communicate with him,
they would slip him a note underneath his door and
sometimes he would respond.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
He seems problematic.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Girl. There's some weird theories that surround fucking old chuck here,
and we'll get into him, okay. Anyway, so the neighbors,
about a week after they find Edwina and Fred, some
neighbors are complaining about sewage issues, and so they go
(20:29):
and they look, uh, and the drainage pipes, not the
drainage pipes, the drainage ditch basically like the sewer, and
they find the Organs, a friend and Edwena. But they
speculated that whoever did this, I'm not saying that Charles
did this, yet, whoever did this had decapitated and god
(20:54):
damn it, dude, why can I fucking think of the
words right now? Dismembered that what it capitated and dismembered
Edwina and Fred had done it in the bathroom, in
the tub and then they had flushed chopped up segments
of their organs down the toilet. But this couple that
(21:15):
wrote a book called the Ice Box Murders and it's
basically like this couple from Texas, they went down this
fucking rabbit trail linking all of these different like accounting reports,
like all this money back to this case, and they
were like, no, no, it wasn't connected to their sewage,
(21:37):
so it wasn't flushed, it was dumped. Like not that
he was whoever did this, he or she they whoever
was doing this was trying to get rid of the
evidence piece by piece and maybe just ran out of
time because when they found the bodies, they had been
dead for three days, and they found that the murders
(21:58):
had taken place on Fathers Day in nineteen sixty five.
Oh and the reasoning behind their time of death was
that they had found a bloody newspaper with that date
on which like, okay, evidence isn't great, but.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
I mean the paper had to have been there when
the blood was there.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
And all the other papers were stacked up outside. So yeah,
like the next three next two to.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Three days, Okay, I can get behind them.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
So also Father's Day.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
You say, Father's Day?
Speaker 2 (22:30):
What an interesting date, right for this to go down?
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Daddy issues much Jesus?
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Okay, okay, but this guy, Charles, he's nowhere to be found.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
He's nowhere to be found. Do they know?
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Like the stupid question, like the door was locked from
the inside, but was it like one of those ones
where you can just like flip the lock and close
it as you leave.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Yeah? Probably, Okay, I assume that.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Do you like sneak out the window?
Speaker 1 (22:54):
I don't know. I think I don't like the beans
are on the table. Maybe he was sitting there eating
fucking beans. They also had speculated, because it was so
neatly caught up like the and there were portions of
it missing, that cannibalism could have been involved, but that
was never confirmed.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
I have a weird question, do you think Charles was
a butcher?
Speaker 1 (23:15):
No? Okay, okay, so we can get into his backstory now.
So Charles Frederick Rogers was born in the early nineteen
twenties in Houston, Texas. He did have a younger sister
who ended up dying in a car accident. She was
ten years old when she died, and after he I
(23:36):
think blamed.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
His parents for her death sad well, I mean, or they.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
May have blamed him like for surviving. So Charles was
a fucking smart cookie. He goes on to graduate from
the University of Houston with a bachelor's degree in nuclear physics.
Wow and yeah, was also noted to be a polyglot.
He spoke seven different languages fluently, including Spanish, French, Russian,
(24:08):
and Mandarin.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Okay, he is a smart cookie.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
He also had his pilot's license and served in the
US Navy during World War Two, where he received flight training.
And then after this he continued like renting planes and
he ended up having his own private plane at one
point two. So we'll keep that in mind because we're
going to go back to that book that I talked
(24:33):
about of County. He made a great amount of money.
So after he was honorably honorably discharged from the US Navy,
he went to work for Shell, the oil company, as
a seismologist and was like very very good at finding
(24:54):
different resources like gold and oil. And this would kind
of of like lead him to become very wealthy.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Okay, he's rich, He's got a pilot's license, he's crazy smart,
and you know, seven languages. This man is a spy.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Yeah, that's why a lot of people think that he
was Hea. But we'll get into that in a second.
So he abruptly leaves Shell after working for them for
about nine years. He moves back in with his parents.
But here's the weird part. He actually owned the house
on Driscoll. He bought it from them, and he had
several other properties that he owned.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Like they lived in his house.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
They lived with him, and a lot of people try
to say that he lived with them as like their
forty three year old son. But from all other like
other accounts that were finding like receipts and like documentation
that like follows the money he was taking care of them.
And what comes out when these forensic fucking accountants go
(25:59):
back into like the records, is that Fred and Ed
we know, were fucking con artists what And so I
don't know exactly what happened with the house, but it
sounds like they were using his name and social Security
number to put out leans on the house and a
lot of these they obviously weren't paying back, and they
(26:22):
fucking ruined him financially and his credit and like his credibility.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Oh my god, motive baby motive. So wow, there's that.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
There's also so there's all this with this weird hobby
that he has where he's really into ham radios.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Carl, I thought you were about to say taxidermy. I
was gonna pass away fucking wild though, eyeball killer.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
He was really fixated on the eyes.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Ham radio like.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
So, yeah, it's basically a service that allows users to
communicate without cell phones on the Internet. So this came
back way back in the day. Obviously it's the sixties,
but you can use it to no so you can
actually talk on it. So it uses wave frequencies and
then you can tac to different people like around the world,
(27:36):
and it's all like based on power good independence, so
you don't have to worry about fucking being on the pagod.
It can fucking still work when all other communications fail
because of this. And so we should get into hand radio.
We should get back into fucking hand radio radios. Here
we comes so down. That's crazy, but also kind kind
(28:00):
of adding to that speculation of him being part of
the CIA, and maybe it wasn't necessarily because of the
money that he killed them, but because his mom overheard him.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Oh interesting take I don't know how much I get
behind it.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
But I know I overheard him with some correspondence and
then try to blackmail him for it.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Geez, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
That's what people speculate.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
That's an interesting speculation.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
I guess he also had like a long term girlfriend,
and this doesn't get brought up in a lot of
the different recordings of podcast recordings that I've heard, but
apparently he had a long term girlfriend and had a
bunch of friends all over the world, different connections. While
he was working for Shell. He was traveling by private
plane down to these places to kind of be there
(28:53):
consultant to where they should drill and all this other shit.
So he was allegedly talked and all of these different
people and what people saw on the outside as far
as his neighbors, maybe he just didn't fuck with them
because he was a fucking it.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Was a big bala Yeah, damn dude.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Big dig ballin and didn't want to be fucking traveled with. Uh. Wow,
there is like this really weird conspiracy that he was
on the Grassy Knoll the day that JFK was fucking assassinated,
and that he was part of the three Tramps that
(29:33):
were there. So there was three houseless individuals that there
are pictures of, like significant, like there's a bunch of
pictures of them for some reason on the day that
JFK was assassinated, and one of them bears a striking
resemblance to Charles Rogers. He only has one other picture
of him taken and it's for his fucking us Navy.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
I d what, dude, this like so deep.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
So there's a book written which I haven't read it,
but we should look into it. It's basically called The
Man on the Grassy Knoll, and it goes into the
fact that Charles Rogers had traveled down to Mexico and
had essentially framed Lee Harvey Olswe So apparently he looked
(30:23):
fairly similar totallye Harvey Oswald. But also it's a white
guy in Mexico and he's posing as him down there,
and people are saying that they saw Lee Harvey Oswall
down in Mexico, when some other people are thinking that
actually it was Charles Rogers. He also was in cahoots
or he knew CIA agents. I confirmed that they knew him,
(30:46):
or that they worked with him. But one of them
was fucking Woody Harrelson's dad. Oh did you know about that?
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Nope? So wait, wait wa woo. Where do you think
he got the butcher skills?
Speaker 1 (30:59):
Butcher? I don't no, because like one of the detectives
was like, well, he would have had to have whoever
it was, had to have some idea of like the
human anatomy. But it's like they were they looked like
they were fucking pork, basically pork product, and so it
was like the fucking information behind it too is kind
(31:22):
of I've heard that the meat was wrapped neatly like
it had come from a butcher, and then another side
of it, it was like Noah was just cleaned and neatly
stacked unwrapped in the ice box.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
It makes more sense to me that it would be unwrapped, yeah,
because of the guy being like, oh, that looks like pig, right,
like specifically right, yeah, unless it was.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
In saran wrap, which I don't think in nineteen sixty
five they were using a lot of saran wrap. I'm
not sure.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
I don't know either, but that's so fascinating, right, Okay,
so he allegedly butcher's his parents. Yeah, excuse me, that's standard.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Damn it.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
But you his parents, then puts the tools he used
to butcher his parents in his room, locks the door
takes off.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
I think that maybe he heard on the ham radio
that they were going to go do a wellness check
on the house. He probably heard, like maybe he overheard it.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Did they like, I don't know if you know, but
did they have any indication that he took stuff with
him when he left?
Speaker 1 (32:28):
His diary was left behind that also had some notes
on the jfk assassination. Oh my god, allegedly supposedly conspiracy or.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
Factor fiction. Mine note it was like a wild bro
Lieutenant Ker, like a little show from the Factor fiction.
Speaker 4 (32:49):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
So he had like a connection to Charles Harrelson, who
was a contract killer. So he was literally a hit
man and was father of fucking Woody Harrelson and potentially
Matthew McConaughey. He says they might be half brothers. I'm sorry,
which is so wild to me because I'm like, no,
they're not.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
I feel like this case is taking such a turn.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
I just love Forty Harrelson a lot, so.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Wow, dude.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Anyway, so he was involved with allegedly supposedly involved with
CIA and was said to be which I think they've disproven,
is said to be one of the three tramps on
the grassy Hole. The forensic accountants that I mentioned before
I wrote a book on the Icebox murders. They were
(33:36):
able to track Charles slightly after he just seemed to
vanish off the face of the ears. But this didn't
happen until like twenty years later. Wow. Of course, So
allegedly supposedly he flew this plane down to Honduras, he
started working for this man at a mine down there,
(33:59):
and sold his plane to this man that owned the mine.
There is like a bill of sailor receipt that has
been found by the forensic accountants that I'd mentioned before,
Now that they've been going deeper into and finding this
paper trail. His last known whereabouts we think are in Honduras.
(34:20):
And from what has been speculated, there was an American
man that was murdered by miners in Honduras at this mine,
and so he was this man was murdered with the
pickaxe and then thrown into the river. And when questioned
about it, the owner of the mine said he had
(34:41):
no idea who this man was. And I'm sure as
fuck wasn't Charles Rogers. What but they've never found his
body and there's like no evidence other than this bill
of sale that has been allegedly supposedly found of this plane.
So do with that what you will.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
So wait, these who told them that this guy was
murdered with a pick axe, they just said the way
they murdered some random white guy.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
Yeah. Basically, they just said that there was a man
that was working in the mine that was American and
they fought, there was a wage dispute, and the miners
ended up killing him with a pick axe.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
That is so interesting. Do you know, so this guy
who's working the men's American? Was he a manager or
was he just like a worker?
Speaker 1 (35:32):
I assume he was a consultant. I don't think there
was no like inform I didn't find any information on that.
But so maybe a seismologist or maybe like you know,
a consultant that would know where to find gold.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Gold that is so.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Wild cannot be confirmed to deny. They never find found
his body.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Well, I mean they tossed him in a river, carried
him out with stream upstream to the ocean somewhere.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
So that's a fucking crazy story, right.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
So still unsolved to this day. There was no other suspects.
Speaker 4 (36:11):
I feel pretty confident, Yeah, I mean, all science point
to Charles fucking was enraged by the fact that his
parents canned him and fucking destroyed his credit and credibility
and were essentially apparent allegedly super abusive towards him in
(36:32):
all kinds of ways from his adolescence to his adulthood.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
And it's so weird to me that he would move
in with them.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
I know, That's what I was thinking too, Like, why
wouldn't you just cut them off entirely unless they were
blackmailing him.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Yeah, at the very least, like or he had multiple
properties guilty, right, I can move them into one property
you live somewhere else.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
Or maybe he was watching them to make sure that
they didn't do anything s us Yeah, but okay, So
the other thing was that his dad, they were we'll
just look at look into fret a little bit. And
so his dad was a real estate agent retired, but
was also a bookie for what they said was the mob,
allegedly supposedly. So they were also thinking that potentially, this
(37:15):
is another theory that maybe his dad was trying to
con Or. He was trying to con the mob, and
then the mom fucking went looking for or Charles, and
then Charles just his body was somewhere else.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
That almost feels more legit to me.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
Well, it's just a little personal the genitals and the
fucking eyes, garage goug job. But that does fucking Maybe mob.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
Hit because Or like caught up put in the fridge.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
Neatly packaged in the fridge, and then they were going
to probably dispose of the body parts in different areas
of town. Well, it just didn't get to it.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Maybe somebody cued old Charles off. He like, hey, your
parents have finally fucking stuck their foot in it, and
he took off. You just go out, And they were like,
but I didn't say nothing. Didn't he have me like, hey, hey.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Look I can't I say you better go home now
and get I don't know, dude.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
That's a better case, better scat.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
So yeah, wow, dude, I don't know. They try to
say that he was literally planning this out for fucking years.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
But it does strike me as planned right at the
very least, Like it doesn't strike me as like he
came home one day found.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
Out what they did on Father's Day.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
On Father's Day, shot his father in the head and
shot his mom in the head, claw hammered his papa spent.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
Oh, they never found the fucking murder weapon.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Found the gun and a gun.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
The drill was used to dismember them. But I remember,
this is a keyhole drill. It's very small, which I
had been in a pain in the ass. And from
what it looked like, they said it looked like it
was cuts from a butcher.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
A keyhole drill. Yeah, cut up two people.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
I know, unless you're changed out that blade regularly, it's
going to be real hard. But also you had to
course of three days if I can do this, That's
the thing is Sorry, it doesn't look like whoever was
doing it wasn't a rush.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
Also, was that meat spoiled because after three days, I
mean that's a while.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
Meat keeps in the fridge for at least three days.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
That's what I'm saying. Like he would have had to
have butchered them that day, got him in there to
keep it from spoiling.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
On Father's Day, and then found three days later.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
And then yeah, that he would have had to be
taken off at that point.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
But everything was someone to ghostly clean, like they barely
found any blood, that's.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
The weird part.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
And USA, which is a violent bleach, right, which was
a violent crime.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
Obviously to me, that screams team Yeah, multiple people, right.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
Because there's two different murder weapons. Why wouldn't he just
have shot Fred in the head.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
Could he keep one of them incapacitated? Well, I mean
unless he shot the mom and then immediately tried to
bludgeon that. Yeah, I don't know, dude. To me, that
seems more accurate and that I don't know. He probably
wasn't home, or if he had heard about it, maybe
he had made plans to get the fuck out of there.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
M m.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
But I'm assuming the forensic accountants never saw him touch
any of his.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Nope, his Social Security card was never used again, none
of his money or like his bank accounts were never
accessed again.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Freaking crazy. So what a wild case.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
I love and I hate these fucking unsolved cases so
much because it's like there's so much speculation around it
because they can't prove shit. Like the accountants can go
as far as to say that he went to Hondurasm
possibly potentially murdered, but.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
I know and what an odd like if he did
kill his parents, what a crazy turn of events getting
killed by ironic. I guess right if you believe atlanis Morset, but.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
Don't you think God damn it?
Speaker 2 (41:02):
Well, thank you for bringing this case up, like this
is one that I will be speculating on my sleep.
I can tell already.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
I feel like I could go down a hole more
of a rabbit hole. And this was kind of halphaszardly
thrown together today, so I apologized, though it was fantastic.
Can't this and things?
Speaker 2 (41:20):
If you ever want to do another deep dive, you know,
fifty episodes from now, let's oh yeah, this is cool.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
Man, it is. Yeah, we can look back into it
and I'll potentially read both books. I don't know. I
don't have time to read a book for fucking pleasure
right now.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
I'm so sorry that audiobook life.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
I can't even do that right now. Like I tried
to find a fucking app that I can use to
like transcribe my articles for classes. I started fucking reading
the side margin and it would like just go zero
one five six zero fibe, and then I would try
to skip overd like fifteen seconds one five dot slash,
(42:01):
and I'm just like, what is fucking happening? And I
looked and I saw what it was highlighting, and I
was like, stupid, dumb bitch, like I don't need to
read that, please stop.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
I also tried to use one of those things.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
To read articles so obnoxious. I just can't, like, not accessible.
We need a more accessible thing for people that need
that more than media. If you guys have any very
useful yeah, I just know if you have it in
an app to use, Yeah, any sugestion love of God.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
And also tell me what you think. Do you think
this man was killed by H or this man's parents
were killed by him or.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
By by the mom.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
The mom because CIA by the CIA like.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
Were trying to keep him quiet because they found out
that he had actually helped in the assassination of JFK.
And so the CIA told him that he needed to
kill his parents or did the CI come in and
fucking cover up and then fucking swoop on fucking child
because he was still valuable because he could still find
all these resources, yeah, like gold and oil and fucking
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Dude, you guys, I feel like this case went in
so many directions I did not expect, so I'd love
to hear your opinions.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
That's really wrong, Like, yeah, also, were are the eyes?
And I was kidding, where are the eyes?
Speaker 2 (43:03):
Goddamn it, goddamned Texas. All right, Well, if you have
any case corrections, if you want to just chat with
us about the craziness of this case, or have some
coffee shops recipes you want us to look into, go
ahead and hit us up on Instagram.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
At Scream Dot and Dot Sugar Dot podcast on Facebook,
Scream and Sugar True Crap Coffee Hour on TikTok Scream
Dot and Dot Sugar, or hit us up on the
Gmail Scream and Sugar renail at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
Anyway, thanks for keeping it real weird.
Speaker 3 (43:33):
Until next time, Stay spooky bye.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
I could eat.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
National Puffin Day, everybody. Happy National Puffin Day, Happy National
pump Day.
Welcome back, everyone to another episode of Scream and Sugar,
the podcast that dives into the darker side of humanity
while savoring a little sweetness on the side. I'm Candace,
I'm Sahara, and today we're going to be talking about
the ice box murders.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Oh you're ready for this, I felink you should know
(00:53):
that today is National Puffin Day.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
I love puffins. Oh yeah, State Bird of Alaska it is. Yeah.
I would see them all the time when I would
drive into town an Anchorage.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Wait, you're not from Anchorage. Why do I always say
that to you?
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Because it's a big city and Kodiak's not.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
I just think like, puffins are cool.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Puffins are hell cool and they're cute and I want
to make friends with them all. But they're so cute.
You'd see them like hopping around on the rocks by
the canneries to try and get some fish. I don't
have never had a negative experience with the puffin but.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
They just feel like I feel like animals actually to
be kind of sassy.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Yeah, because they know they I see. I can catch
my reflection in the water. I'm kiss fuck, I'm kiss fuck.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Chickies like cheeseburger birds burger. Yeah, they are like the
cutest animals. I have every love that you said that.
That's Alex the other day and he just kind of
looked at me weird, and I was like, it sounds
like they're saying cheeseburger. There's one outside my back door
right now. Due that's that's a mountain Chickaye babe, cheese.
And they are fucking vicious. They're Hell Territory, so cute.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
I just want a fucking cheeseburger the same. I'm so stupid.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
I don't know why I thought you were doing the
toy box murders.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
No, not yet. I would have to focus one.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
No, this one's still pretty nearly but not nearly as
narly as the toy box.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Why does the icebox sounds the icebox killer sounds so
familiar to me? I don't know. I guess we'll find
out when.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
I You know what's crazy is I used to watch
watch Dexter a lot, and there was the ice Truck Killer.
That fucking shit stuck with me because gnarly not that case.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
So got really into that show, like in two thousand
and eight.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Yeah, summer, yeah, exactly, summer around there not maybe a
little bit later. For me. I feel like it was
like twenty ten, but I liked it. Dexter Morgan so hot.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Right now they're like redoing it or something.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
They so they re they made a new it's like
a prequel, but it's him like growing up.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Oh interesting, Actually, you know I would watch that probably right.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Same tell us about where the new Radical Cat location
is at.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Yeah, oh my gosh, you guys. So you guys may recall, yes,
update update, you guys may recall. Back when we covered
Magpie Coffee Roasters, we also stopped in that the Radical
Cat because we thought the Radical Cat was the coffee shop,
but it wasn't. So the Radical Cat, which is a
local bookstore. They do books, art and then they have
(03:41):
cats that you can come in and like read with
and potentially adopt. But they moved so now they are
located actually really close to where they were before, but
now they're at fifteen hundred South Virginia Street, so it's
actually on Virginia And their new location is absolutely beautiful.
It's even bigger than it was before. And they are
(04:04):
sharing their space now with Fine Tooth Records, so it's
a new record stop. So I thought that was really cool.
Huge shout out to the Radical Cat. They hooked us
up with some like a book and a little gift
card for my university raffle that we're doing for grad students.
(04:24):
So I went down there to pick it up and
I was like, oh my god, this new location is amazing.
So I wanted to let you guys know also, so
you can go down and look at some records and
potentially get a good book and hang out with some cats.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Yeah, support that business because that's such a great business model.
Cats and records and books. Oh my, that sounds amazing.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
And they're just so so nice, such nice people in
there too, so huge shadow helly. Other than that, well,
I guess.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
You're going to get into it. I feel like this
is one might be a half calf, so just put
a pin in that because uh spoil.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
It's unsolved, unsolved.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
In the primary suspect vanished without a trace, So suspicious,
very suspicious. I don't remember where I heard this case room.
I feel like it was probably from the Morbid Girlies,
but a bunch of smaller podcasts I was listening to
like episodes today trying to put together the pieces of
(05:27):
this case, because I procrastinated and have been going through
a lot, and so I just was not looking to
look at something so dismal at the moment. But anyway,
but she's here for us. But I'm here, and we're
gonna fucking get through this together, y'all. So let's just
fucking jump on in do it. June twenty third, nineteen
(05:49):
sixty five, the police were called to do a wellness
check on Fred and Edwina Rogers. They hadn't been heard
from in a couple of days. Edwina Rogers was working
as a cleaning supply salesperson and her one of her
co workers had to realize that she hadn't been shown
(06:11):
up for work, she hadn't called in. It's very unlike her.
And so this coworker ends up reaching out to her nephew, Marvin.
His name is Marvin, and I said Marvin Martin, and
I was like, that's a little bit close to Marvin Marshaan.
So I've heard it was Marvin Martin, and I've heard
Marvin Mattlin, So we're just gonna call him Martin, Marvin.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Marvin, Marvin Martin Martin.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
And Marvin was really close with his aunt and uncle.
He went and visited Fred and Edwina like almost weekly.
He talked to his aunt three times a week about
and when he wasn't hearing back from her, he also
grew concerned, so he reached out to the Houston Police
Department and them to go over and do a welfare
(07:01):
check on his aunt and uncle. He called them from
a payphone, which I thought was kind of weird, But anyway,
the police head over to the house and they go
knock on the door. They don't receive any answer. They
notice that all the blinds are drawn, and there's some
(07:22):
newspapers that have been in mail that have been stacking
up outside. They're not immediately alarmed by this. They think
that maybe Fred and Edwena Rodgers had gone for a
vacation last minute and just hadn't noticed, like notified anyone,
which is weird because they're old and I feel like
they would be more responsible than that. But anyway, I
(07:46):
don't know either way. So they look around, they try
to see if they can like peek into the windows.
They noticed that in the driveway their car is up
on blocks, so it's not going anywhere, and they're not
going anywhere, not going anyway fast, not going anyway fast.
They go around back. There is a back door that
(08:07):
leads into the house, and they can kind of see it.
It doesn't look like anything's out of the out of
the norm. There's not like no one's ransacked the house.
Nothing is like really sticking out to them. Still, at
this point, the back door is a little bit of jar,
and when they try to open it, it's not moving
(08:30):
oh easily, So there's something blocking it. This, for some
reason makes them want to inch of the house. I
don't know, like what the procedure is for a wellness check,
Like if it's no one's responding, I think they're able
to actually then push it open.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Still, I think if the door's open, they can let
themselves let them. I think it's if the door's locked,
then they have to get a warrant.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Okay, so the door is not locked, it is a jar,
but there's also a bunch of heavy flower pots on
the inside that are preventing them from going in.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Oh that's kind of weird. Yeah, okay, any lawyer listeners.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
But I'm also like, yeah, yeah, so if it's not
like easily, you're not easily able to open the door.
They still able to force their entry.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
So weird, yeah, without probable cause.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Nineteen sixty five. I don't know, maybe a lots of
different now. Anyway, one officer goes upstairs, the other one
stays on the main floor, and they're just kind of
snooping around to see what they can find. Both of
them don't see, like I said, anything out of the ordinary,
Like it just looks like it's been lived in. It's
not exactly like pristinely clean. There's a little bit of
(09:44):
clutter here and there, okay, but nothing like overwhelmingly pointing
towards a struggle. They don't find Fred and Edwena. So
the officer on the ground floor, for some reason, he
goes into the kitchen. There's like an overwhelming smell of
bleach and there's a bleaked bleach jug and other cleaning products.
(10:05):
But remember Edwin knows a cleaning supply salesperson.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
You said that the rest of the house was like
average clean, in the kitchen was just bleach smell.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Well, then apparently they also had a housekeeper too, so like,
how often is the housekeeper coming over? But if they're
not answering the door, does she have a keel herself?
And I don't know. These are all the questions that
I would ask, But it's an old ass case fair
enough anyway, So what the officers notices that there's a
(10:34):
plate of beans sitting on the table that had been
there for a little bit, maybe like a day though,
so he's not thinking like it's not rotting or anything,
and he's like, Okay, that's kind of weird. Why would
you to leave a plate of beans on the on
the table?
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Man? Would they be surprised?
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Beside?
Speaker 2 (10:53):
After a long weekend.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
I had a roommate that used to keep like pizza
boxes underneath her bed, and I she like, I think
she had to go to rehab or some shit, and
I was cleaning her room out and it was just
fucking so much weird mold going on under that bed.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Well she probably had mold disease in her brain.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Possibly, I don't know. Anyway, so wild Apparently a plate
of beans on the table wasn't enough to raise a larm.
But anyway, the officer is like still thinking like nothing.
He's like, I don't know, like there's nothing to be found.
There's the other officer comes down and I guess there's
a door upstairs that is locked from the inside that
they can't get into. And uh, for whatever reason, this
(11:40):
officer pulls open the fridge. He was looking for a beer, dude, Yeah,
that's what someone says. He was probably looking for a
cold drink. It was in the middle of summer. I
mean it's June and fucking Houston, Texas probably hot as balls, probably,
you know. So he just like, without really like expecting anything,
he opens up the fridge and he kinda is taken
(12:04):
back because there's all of these neatly cleaned segments of
what he believes to be hog and he's like, oh, man, like, well,
if they did leave for a vacation, that's a shame
because all of this fresh meat is gonna spoil soon.
Oh my god. And that's what he thinks. He's just
like that's his first thought. It's like, oh man, this
(12:25):
looks like hog meat. He goes to close the door
and his eyes kind of drift downwards to where the
vegetable crisper drawer is and he sees two fucking human
eyes looking up.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
My fucking god. Oh my goosies are crazy.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
So he sees his pear of brown eyes looking up
at him, and.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Through the Crisp.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Marvin apparently is still outside waiting to hear about his
aunt and uncle, and they ask him to come inside.
What to identify a body?
Speaker 2 (13:03):
What in the hell, Houston?
Speaker 1 (13:05):
And it's just one body so far, they think.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
So I'm sorry. They call the drawer. They pulled the
head on there, like.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
They don't pull the head out. They go out to
their car and they call for backup. They're like, we
need back up on the scene. There is a dismembered
body in the ice box.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Oh my, I cannot believe they did that to him.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
But yeah, they asked Marvin to identify his aunt and
he says, that's my They want to rule him out
as a suspect, is what the cop says. They want
to rule him out as a suspect because remember he
called from a pay phone. They just want to make
sure that there's no foul play on his end, which
I think is so fucked.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
And so they do that by forcing him to look
at that.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
They let him know that there's a body and we
just need you to identify it.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
But wasn't there another case that we looked at where
they did something similar. They had somebody come in and
identify on site, like, yeah, I can't.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
I think it's totally inappropriate and inappropriate, but they just
wanted to see how he would react, and he like
freaked out. Obviously, that's very fucking traumatic, very fucking traumatic. Like,
don't do that. That poor any cops if you're listening,
don't fucking do that.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
It's so ungalled for it.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
But yeah, they're they're all fucking freaked out. They bring
in a medical examiner and are working to locate any
evidence of like where the Edwina was murdered, and they're
looking for Fred still. Oh, so they find Fred. He's
(14:58):
in the next box underneath Edwina and his head is
wrapped in a plastic bag, but his eyes have been
gouged out.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Oh god, the eyes.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Yeah, okay, I don't know if they find the eyes either.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
God Texans, goddamn Texans and their goddamn eyeballs.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
So they're tasked with kind of figuring out what part
of the body goes to what person. Their torsos are there,
their thighs are there, so they'd been sectioned off, but
like pretty clean cuts, and they'd also been like the
skin had been removed, so all the organs had been
(15:40):
removed they can't find the organs im.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
In the house.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Yes, so they they look. There is like a small
amount of blood that goes into the bathroom, like a
little bit of like blood drippage, but not someone tried
to say it was like a trail of blood. But
there's like literally hardly any fucking evidence in the house
(16:07):
as far as like where exactly they were murdered. The
autopsy finds that Edwina had actually been shot in the
head execution style, but that she didn't die right away.
It was like twenty minutes later that she died, and
she also sustained some uh like she fought back basically
(16:28):
as I was saying, she had like some self defense wounds.
Fred on the other hand, had blunt force trauma to
his head and didn't show signs of a struggle, but
had severe like trauma to his body, and his genitalia
had also been removed, so his eyes are garaged out
(16:51):
as danitalia was removed, blunt force trauma to the head, and.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
That he was beating the time.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Yes, it was it was postmortem that hist and italia
was removed, yes, and then then they were just remembered.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
And his wife, Edwina Edwena. She was shot execution style
front or back of the head or whatever, the head,
back of the head, but.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
She did not kill her. Yeah, that was not what
killed her. Blood loss, I don't know, that's a good question.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Okay, interesting. No, I'm just like so curious because what the.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Fuck I know. So we'll kind of get into that
a little bit later on in the case. But uh so, Yeah,
they find like trace amounts of blood on the lock
door that's upstairs. So they get in there and they
find that the couple's son, Charles Rogers, who was forty
(17:53):
three at the time. So Edwina was seventy two and
Fred was eighty one and at the time of death,
and their son Charles is forty three. No one in
the neighborhood knew that Charles lived with them, and he
was kind of this reclusive figure to those that did
know him, Like apparently he would get up at dawn,
(18:17):
leave the house and wouldn't come back until dusk, so
he was out of the house pretty much the entire time,
the waking hours of Adwena and Fred. He was not there.
And we'll get into why that is the thing as well.
But a lot of the neighbors did not realize that
they had a son, did not realize that he was
living with them, and Edwina and Fred never mentioned him
(18:38):
to anyone.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Did he have a car? Yes, so like was the
car there?
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Yeah, I guess I might have been the one of
bomb blocks. I don't know, or maybe he would get
a taxi. I'm not sure about the weird I mean
that's important and I shouldn't say yes to the car.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
I'll just cut that question. And I was just curious, like,
so do you not know?
Speaker 3 (18:57):
Right?
Speaker 1 (18:57):
There was like one neighbor that had said that you
had seen a man that had the same uh profile
as him walking the neighborhood at night sometimes, but didn't
know that that was Ed, Edwina and Fred's son.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
So he maybe like got up a dawn, walked off
into the fucking.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
When he caught a bus or a cab and then
that's how he came back in potentially catching a bus.
Uh yeah, very interesting. They get into the room and
they find a keyhole drill and a gun with one
round missing from the chamber, and they also see that
(19:37):
there's a hot plate and it there's dishes, so it
looks like Charles was kind of like keeping to himself,
didn't really interact with his family members, his mother and
his dad, and from what another relative had said is
that they hadn't spoken face to face in five years.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
What the fuck?
Speaker 1 (19:57):
And apparently Charles when they did want to communicate with him,
they would slip him a note underneath his door and
sometimes he would respond.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
He seems problematic.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Girl. There's some weird theories that surround fucking old chuck here,
and we'll get into him, okay. Anyway, so the neighbors,
about a week after they find Edwina and Fred, some
neighbors are complaining about sewage issues, and so they go
(20:29):
and they look, uh, and the drainage pipes, not the
drainage pipes, the drainage ditch basically like the sewer, and
they find the Organs, a friend and Edwena. But they
speculated that whoever did this, I'm not saying that Charles
did this, yet, whoever did this had decapitated and god
(20:54):
damn it, dude, why can I fucking think of the
words right now? Dismembered that what it capitated and dismembered
Edwina and Fred had done it in the bathroom, in
the tub and then they had flushed chopped up segments
of their organs down the toilet. But this couple that
(21:15):
wrote a book called the Ice Box Murders and it's
basically like this couple from Texas, they went down this
fucking rabbit trail linking all of these different like accounting reports,
like all this money back to this case, and they
were like, no, no, it wasn't connected to their sewage,
(21:37):
so it wasn't flushed, it was dumped. Like not that
he was whoever did this, he or she they whoever
was doing this was trying to get rid of the
evidence piece by piece and maybe just ran out of
time because when they found the bodies, they had been
dead for three days, and they found that the murders
(21:58):
had taken place on Fathers Day in nineteen sixty five.
Oh and the reasoning behind their time of death was
that they had found a bloody newspaper with that date
on which like, okay, evidence isn't great, but.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
I mean the paper had to have been there when
the blood was there.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
And all the other papers were stacked up outside. So yeah,
like the next three next two to.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Three days, Okay, I can get behind them.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
So also Father's Day.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
You say, Father's Day?
Speaker 2 (22:30):
What an interesting date, right for this to go down?
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Daddy issues much Jesus?
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Okay, okay, but this guy, Charles, he's nowhere to be found.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
He's nowhere to be found. Do they know?
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Like the stupid question, like the door was locked from
the inside, but was it like one of those ones
where you can just like flip the lock and close
it as you leave.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Yeah? Probably, Okay, I assume that.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Do you like sneak out the window?
Speaker 1 (22:54):
I don't know. I think I don't like the beans
are on the table. Maybe he was sitting there eating
fucking beans. They also had speculated, because it was so
neatly caught up like the and there were portions of
it missing, that cannibalism could have been involved, but that
was never confirmed.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
I have a weird question, do you think Charles was
a butcher?
Speaker 1 (23:15):
No? Okay, okay, so we can get into his backstory now.
So Charles Frederick Rogers was born in the early nineteen
twenties in Houston, Texas. He did have a younger sister
who ended up dying in a car accident. She was
ten years old when she died, and after he I
(23:36):
think blamed.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
His parents for her death sad well, I mean, or they.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
May have blamed him like for surviving. So Charles was
a fucking smart cookie. He goes on to graduate from
the University of Houston with a bachelor's degree in nuclear physics.
Wow and yeah, was also noted to be a polyglot.
He spoke seven different languages fluently, including Spanish, French, Russian,
(24:08):
and Mandarin.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Okay, he is a smart cookie.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
He also had his pilot's license and served in the
US Navy during World War Two, where he received flight training.
And then after this he continued like renting planes and
he ended up having his own private plane at one
point two. So we'll keep that in mind because we're
going to go back to that book that I talked
(24:33):
about of County. He made a great amount of money.
So after he was honorably honorably discharged from the US Navy,
he went to work for Shell, the oil company, as
a seismologist and was like very very good at finding
(24:54):
different resources like gold and oil. And this would kind
of of like lead him to become very wealthy.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Okay, he's rich, He's got a pilot's license, he's crazy smart,
and you know, seven languages. This man is a spy.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Yeah, that's why a lot of people think that he
was Hea. But we'll get into that in a second.
So he abruptly leaves Shell after working for them for
about nine years. He moves back in with his parents.
But here's the weird part. He actually owned the house
on Driscoll. He bought it from them, and he had
several other properties that he owned.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Like they lived in his house.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
They lived with him, and a lot of people try
to say that he lived with them as like their
forty three year old son. But from all other like
other accounts that were finding like receipts and like documentation
that like follows the money he was taking care of them.
And what comes out when these forensic fucking accountants go
(25:59):
back into like the records, is that Fred and Ed
we know, were fucking con artists what And so I
don't know exactly what happened with the house, but it
sounds like they were using his name and social Security
number to put out leans on the house and a
lot of these they obviously weren't paying back, and they
(26:22):
fucking ruined him financially and his credit and like his credibility.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Oh my god, motive baby motive. So wow, there's that.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
There's also so there's all this with this weird hobby
that he has where he's really into ham radios.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Carl, I thought you were about to say taxidermy. I
was gonna pass away fucking wild though, eyeball killer.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
He was really fixated on the eyes.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Ham radio like.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
So, yeah, it's basically a service that allows users to
communicate without cell phones on the Internet. So this came
back way back in the day. Obviously it's the sixties,
but you can use it to no so you can
actually talk on it. So it uses wave frequencies and
then you can tac to different people like around the world,
(27:36):
and it's all like based on power good independence, so
you don't have to worry about fucking being on the pagod.
It can fucking still work when all other communications fail
because of this. And so we should get into hand radio.
We should get back into fucking hand radio radios. Here
we comes so down. That's crazy, but also kind kind
(28:00):
of adding to that speculation of him being part of
the CIA, and maybe it wasn't necessarily because of the
money that he killed them, but because his mom overheard him.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Oh interesting take I don't know how much I get
behind it.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
But I know I overheard him with some correspondence and
then try to blackmail him for it.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Geez, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
That's what people speculate.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
That's an interesting speculation.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
I guess he also had like a long term girlfriend,
and this doesn't get brought up in a lot of
the different recordings of podcast recordings that I've heard, but
apparently he had a long term girlfriend and had a
bunch of friends all over the world, different connections. While
he was working for Shell. He was traveling by private
plane down to these places to kind of be there
(28:53):
consultant to where they should drill and all this other shit.
So he was allegedly talked and all of these different
people and what people saw on the outside as far
as his neighbors, maybe he just didn't fuck with them
because he was a fucking it.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Was a big bala Yeah, damn dude.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Big dig ballin and didn't want to be fucking traveled with. Uh. Wow,
there is like this really weird conspiracy that he was
on the Grassy Knoll the day that JFK was fucking assassinated,
and that he was part of the three Tramps that
(29:33):
were there. So there was three houseless individuals that there
are pictures of, like significant, like there's a bunch of
pictures of them for some reason on the day that
JFK was assassinated, and one of them bears a striking
resemblance to Charles Rogers. He only has one other picture
of him taken and it's for his fucking us Navy.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
I d what, dude, this like so deep.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
So there's a book written which I haven't read it,
but we should look into it. It's basically called The
Man on the Grassy Knoll, and it goes into the
fact that Charles Rogers had traveled down to Mexico and
had essentially framed Lee Harvey Olswe So apparently he looked
(30:23):
fairly similar totallye Harvey Oswald. But also it's a white
guy in Mexico and he's posing as him down there,
and people are saying that they saw Lee Harvey Oswall
down in Mexico, when some other people are thinking that
actually it was Charles Rogers. He also was in cahoots
or he knew CIA agents. I confirmed that they knew him,
(30:46):
or that they worked with him. But one of them
was fucking Woody Harrelson's dad. Oh did you know about that?
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Nope? So wait, wait wa woo. Where do you think
he got the butcher skills?
Speaker 1 (30:59):
Butcher? I don't no, because like one of the detectives
was like, well, he would have had to have whoever
it was, had to have some idea of like the
human anatomy. But it's like they were they looked like
they were fucking pork, basically pork product, and so it
was like the fucking information behind it too is kind
(31:22):
of I've heard that the meat was wrapped neatly like
it had come from a butcher, and then another side
of it, it was like Noah was just cleaned and neatly
stacked unwrapped in the ice box.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
It makes more sense to me that it would be unwrapped, yeah,
because of the guy being like, oh, that looks like pig, right,
like specifically right, yeah, unless it was.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
In saran wrap, which I don't think in nineteen sixty
five they were using a lot of saran wrap. I'm
not sure.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
I don't know either, but that's so fascinating, right, Okay,
so he allegedly butcher's his parents. Yeah, excuse me, that's standard.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Damn it.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
But you his parents, then puts the tools he used
to butcher his parents in his room, locks the door
takes off.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
I think that maybe he heard on the ham radio
that they were going to go do a wellness check
on the house. He probably heard, like maybe he overheard it.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Did they like, I don't know if you know, but
did they have any indication that he took stuff with
him when he left?
Speaker 1 (32:28):
His diary was left behind that also had some notes
on the jfk assassination. Oh my god, allegedly supposedly conspiracy or.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
Factor fiction. Mine note it was like a wild bro
Lieutenant Ker, like a little show from the Factor fiction.
Speaker 4 (32:49):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
So he had like a connection to Charles Harrelson, who
was a contract killer. So he was literally a hit
man and was father of fucking Woody Harrelson and potentially
Matthew McConaughey. He says they might be half brothers. I'm sorry,
which is so wild to me because I'm like, no,
they're not.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
I feel like this case is taking such a turn.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
I just love Forty Harrelson a lot, so.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Wow, dude.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Anyway, so he was involved with allegedly supposedly involved with
CIA and was said to be which I think they've disproven,
is said to be one of the three tramps on
the grassy Hole. The forensic accountants that I mentioned before
I wrote a book on the Icebox murders. They were
(33:36):
able to track Charles slightly after he just seemed to
vanish off the face of the ears. But this didn't
happen until like twenty years later. Wow. Of course, So
allegedly supposedly he flew this plane down to Honduras, he
started working for this man at a mine down there,
(33:59):
and sold his plane to this man that owned the mine.
There is like a bill of sailor receipt that has
been found by the forensic accountants that I'd mentioned before,
Now that they've been going deeper into and finding this
paper trail. His last known whereabouts we think are in Honduras.
(34:20):
And from what has been speculated, there was an American
man that was murdered by miners in Honduras at this mine,
and so he was this man was murdered with the
pickaxe and then thrown into the river. And when questioned
about it, the owner of the mine said he had
(34:41):
no idea who this man was. And I'm sure as
fuck wasn't Charles Rogers. What but they've never found his
body and there's like no evidence other than this bill
of sale that has been allegedly supposedly found of this plane.
So do with that what you will.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
So wait, these who told them that this guy was
murdered with a pick axe, they just said the way
they murdered some random white guy.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
Yeah. Basically, they just said that there was a man
that was working in the mine that was American and
they fought, there was a wage dispute, and the miners
ended up killing him with a pick axe.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
That is so interesting. Do you know, so this guy
who's working the men's American? Was he a manager or
was he just like a worker?
Speaker 1 (35:32):
I assume he was a consultant. I don't think there
was no like inform I didn't find any information on that.
But so maybe a seismologist or maybe like you know,
a consultant that would know where to find gold.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Gold that is so.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Wild cannot be confirmed to deny. They never find found
his body.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Well, I mean they tossed him in a river, carried
him out with stream upstream to the ocean somewhere.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
So that's a fucking crazy story, right.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
So still unsolved to this day. There was no other suspects.
Speaker 4 (36:11):
I feel pretty confident, Yeah, I mean, all science point
to Charles fucking was enraged by the fact that his
parents canned him and fucking destroyed his credit and credibility
and were essentially apparent allegedly super abusive towards him in
(36:32):
all kinds of ways from his adolescence to his adulthood.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
And it's so weird to me that he would move
in with them.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
I know, That's what I was thinking too, Like, why
wouldn't you just cut them off entirely unless they were
blackmailing him.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Yeah, at the very least, like or he had multiple
properties guilty, right, I can move them into one property
you live somewhere else.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
Or maybe he was watching them to make sure that
they didn't do anything s us Yeah, but okay, So
the other thing was that his dad, they were we'll
just look at look into fret a little bit. And
so his dad was a real estate agent retired, but
was also a bookie for what they said was the mob,
allegedly supposedly. So they were also thinking that potentially, this
(37:15):
is another theory that maybe his dad was trying to
con Or. He was trying to con the mob, and
then the mom fucking went looking for or Charles, and
then Charles just his body was somewhere else.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
That almost feels more legit to me.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
Well, it's just a little personal the genitals and the
fucking eyes, garage goug job. But that does fucking Maybe mob.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
Hit because Or like caught up put in the fridge.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
Neatly packaged in the fridge, and then they were going
to probably dispose of the body parts in different areas
of town. Well, it just didn't get to it.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Maybe somebody cued old Charles off. He like, hey, your
parents have finally fucking stuck their foot in it, and
he took off. You just go out, And they were like,
but I didn't say nothing. Didn't he have me like, hey, hey.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Look I can't I say you better go home now
and get I don't know, dude.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
That's a better case, better scat.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
So yeah, wow, dude, I don't know. They try to
say that he was literally planning this out for fucking years.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
But it does strike me as planned right at the
very least, Like it doesn't strike me as like he
came home one day found.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
Out what they did on Father's Day.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
On Father's Day, shot his father in the head and
shot his mom in the head, claw hammered his papa spent.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
Oh, they never found the fucking murder weapon.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Found the gun and a gun.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
The drill was used to dismember them. But I remember,
this is a keyhole drill. It's very small, which I
had been in a pain in the ass. And from
what it looked like, they said it looked like it
was cuts from a butcher.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
A keyhole drill. Yeah, cut up two people.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
I know, unless you're changed out that blade regularly, it's
going to be real hard. But also you had to
course of three days if I can do this, That's
the thing is Sorry, it doesn't look like whoever was
doing it wasn't a rush.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
Also, was that meat spoiled because after three days, I
mean that's a while.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
Meat keeps in the fridge for at least three days.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
That's what I'm saying. Like he would have had to
have butchered them that day, got him in there to
keep it from spoiling.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
On Father's Day, and then found three days later.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
And then yeah, that he would have had to be
taken off at that point.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
But everything was someone to ghostly clean, like they barely
found any blood, that's.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
The weird part.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
And USA, which is a violent bleach, right, which was
a violent crime.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
Obviously to me, that screams team Yeah, multiple people, right.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
Because there's two different murder weapons. Why wouldn't he just
have shot Fred in the head.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
Could he keep one of them incapacitated? Well, I mean
unless he shot the mom and then immediately tried to
bludgeon that. Yeah, I don't know, dude. To me, that
seems more accurate and that I don't know. He probably
wasn't home, or if he had heard about it, maybe
he had made plans to get the fuck out of there.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
M m.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
But I'm assuming the forensic accountants never saw him touch
any of his.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Nope, his Social Security card was never used again, none
of his money or like his bank accounts were never
accessed again.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Freaking crazy. So what a wild case.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
I love and I hate these fucking unsolved cases so
much because it's like there's so much speculation around it
because they can't prove shit. Like the accountants can go
as far as to say that he went to Hondurasm
possibly potentially murdered, but.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
I know and what an odd like if he did
kill his parents, what a crazy turn of events getting
killed by ironic. I guess right if you believe atlanis Morset, but.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
Don't you think God damn it?
Speaker 2 (41:02):
Well, thank you for bringing this case up, like this
is one that I will be speculating on my sleep.
I can tell already.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
I feel like I could go down a hole more
of a rabbit hole. And this was kind of halphaszardly
thrown together today, so I apologized, though it was fantastic.
Can't this and things?
Speaker 2 (41:20):
If you ever want to do another deep dive, you know,
fifty episodes from now, let's oh yeah, this is cool.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
Man, it is. Yeah, we can look back into it
and I'll potentially read both books. I don't know. I
don't have time to read a book for fucking pleasure
right now.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
I'm so sorry that audiobook life.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
I can't even do that right now. Like I tried
to find a fucking app that I can use to
like transcribe my articles for classes. I started fucking reading
the side margin and it would like just go zero
one five six zero fibe, and then I would try
to skip overd like fifteen seconds one five dot slash,
(42:01):
and I'm just like, what is fucking happening? And I
looked and I saw what it was highlighting, and I
was like, stupid, dumb bitch, like I don't need to
read that, please stop.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
I also tried to use one of those things.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
To read articles so obnoxious. I just can't, like, not accessible.
We need a more accessible thing for people that need
that more than media. If you guys have any very
useful yeah, I just know if you have it in
an app to use, Yeah, any sugestion love of God.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
And also tell me what you think. Do you think
this man was killed by H or this man's parents
were killed by him or.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
By by the mom.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
The mom because CIA by the CIA like.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
Were trying to keep him quiet because they found out
that he had actually helped in the assassination of JFK.
And so the CIA told him that he needed to
kill his parents or did the CI come in and
fucking cover up and then fucking swoop on fucking child
because he was still valuable because he could still find
all these resources, yeah, like gold and oil and fucking
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Dude, you guys, I feel like this case went in
so many directions I did not expect, so I'd love
to hear your opinions.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
That's really wrong, Like, yeah, also, were are the eyes?
And I was kidding, where are the eyes?
Speaker 2 (43:03):
Goddamn it, goddamned Texas. All right, Well, if you have
any case corrections, if you want to just chat with
us about the craziness of this case, or have some
coffee shops recipes you want us to look into, go
ahead and hit us up on Instagram.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
At Scream Dot and Dot Sugar Dot podcast on Facebook,
Scream and Sugar True Crap Coffee Hour on TikTok Scream
Dot and Dot Sugar, or hit us up on the
Gmail Scream and Sugar renail at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
Anyway, thanks for keeping it real weird.
Speaker 3 (43:33):
Until next time, Stay spooky bye.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
I could eat.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
National Puffin Day, everybody. Happy National Puffin Day, Happy National
pump Day.
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