June 18, 2025 • 47 mins
Welcome back, spooky squad, to another episode of Scream and Sugar, your true crime coffee hour.
In the quiet town of Acme, Washington, the Thanksgiving weekend of 1989 turned into a nightmare. Mandy Stavik, a bright, athletic 18-year-old college freshman, went out for a routine jog with her dog, Kyra, and never came home. Days later, her body was found in the Nooksack River. The case would haunt the community for decades until a shocking DNA breakthrough revealed her killer. Join us as we unpack the chilling details of Mandy’s life, her disappearance, and the long-delayed justice that finally gave her family some peace.
Come sip along with us as we dive into the details surrounding this case, including the amazing women who came together to finally solve it. And remember, to stay spooky, y'all!
https://www.bellinghamherald.com/news/local/crime/article189667204.htmlhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU7GIDi66xE
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/scream-and-sugar-true-crime-coffee-hour--6015946/support.
In the quiet town of Acme, Washington, the Thanksgiving weekend of 1989 turned into a nightmare. Mandy Stavik, a bright, athletic 18-year-old college freshman, went out for a routine jog with her dog, Kyra, and never came home. Days later, her body was found in the Nooksack River. The case would haunt the community for decades until a shocking DNA breakthrough revealed her killer. Join us as we unpack the chilling details of Mandy’s life, her disappearance, and the long-delayed justice that finally gave her family some peace.
Come sip along with us as we dive into the details surrounding this case, including the amazing women who came together to finally solve it. And remember, to stay spooky, y'all!
https://www.bellinghamherald.com/news/local/crime/article189667204.htmlhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU7GIDi66xE
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/scream-and-sugar-true-crime-coffee-hour--6015946/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome back, everybody to another episode of Scream and Sugar,
your true crime coffee hour, where we dive into the
darker side of humanity while enjoying a little sweetness on
the side. I am your host, Sahara, I'm Candace, and
today we're going to be covering the unusual and twisted
case of Mandy Static. And on that note, Hi everybody, Hey,
(00:52):
how are all of you? We'd love to hear from
you more. Did you know that on Spotify I found
this out you can actually interact with us? Oh shit, yeah,
there's a comment section at the bottom. I didn't know that.
So if you ever just want to get up in
there and comment stuff.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Yeah, and if you still haven't reviewed our shit.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Oh yeah, give us a review. Good on it. Please.
We just want to think all of you who have
done it, Like so many people have come up to
me and just said like, hey, I've shared this with
XX and X, and I show this to my coworkers
and I shows my friends and it just means so
much to us. So thank you so much from the
bottom of our hearts. Absolutely. In fact, didn't we get
a message from a down under listener?
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Yes, yes, there is an episode that I'm going to
be covering from that listener as well. And someone else
approached me and said that their friend has been listening
and they really appreciated all of our D and D references,
our nerdy isms, a nerdisms.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
So fellow nerds unite. Yeah, we're happy to hear there's
a lot of nerds out there with us, because unfortunately
it is who we are to the cool cool to
the cross nailed it all right, Well, guys, today we
(02:06):
are going to be hopping into a pretty tragic case
that we actually have already covered, but you never got
to hear it because it got deleted. Wah wah wam
so sad. Today is a new day where allegedly it
will not get deleted.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Fingers fucking crossed.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Yeah, okay, just keeps like making fucking over this grandpa
anxious eye contact with the screen.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Well, just notice that there's a microphone over there now too, So.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Maybe I'll just sit over there. No, you can just
stare at the back of my head. Did you have
a nice shaped skull? It looks like an egg, like
a small egg, very smooth, smooth like my brain, smooth
and no bridges, just like a tongue in there. When
William really wants to like hype me up, He's like,
(02:53):
oh yeah, babe, you're so smart, like a tongue in
that head, and I'm like, what the fuck does that mean?
It's like your brain, it's got no bridges, so smooth.
It's just the fuck up, dude, fucking William. But this
case you guys may have heard of. Obviously, Candice has
definitely heard of it. So if I forget anything, please
feel free to jump in. But we're actually going to
be talking about this really heartbreaking and for a very
(03:15):
long time unsolved case of Mandy Stavick. This story takes
place in the small town of Acame, Washington, which was,
as we determined in our last session, very small. We're
talking like two hundred and twenty four people small, so
very very small town, and it remained cold for nearly
three decades. So I actually found out about this case
on a one of those recent episodes of forty eight Hours,
(03:38):
So you guys maybe have seen that one, but I
want to warn you if you do watch that, the
interviews with Mandy's parents are extremely emotional and just like
really heartbreaking. Like there was this point where her dad
was talking and I was just like tearing up. So
it's a difficult story, but I also believe it's important
to tal it and keep Mandy, you know, alive. Okay.
(03:58):
So Mandy Stavick was absolutely stunning you guys, like, we'll
obviously we'll post up some pictures and things. But she
was so beautiful. And she grew up in the small
town of obviously Acme, Washington. She was an aspiring airline pilot.
She was a cheerleader, a basketball player, She was a
top academic in her class, like clearly a very go getter,
(04:20):
and she was always interested in trying to do, as
her mom put it, like everything. I feel like Cannice
and I can really relate to that because we also
are always like, yeah, we could do that. Yeah, I'll
do that myrown. Yeah. So she was a college freshman,
so she had actually just started at Central Washington University,
and then she would return home for the holidays, back
(04:40):
to where her high school was and where her parents
were living.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
This is Thanksgiving, yes.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Yes, So she went for a run around three pm
on November twenty fourth, nineteen eighty nine, so it was
the day after Thanksgiving, and she went on a run
with her dog, Kira, who was a big German shepherd.
Her parents were at home, they were preparing dinner when
the German shepherd suddenly just returns back to the house
all alone at four thirty. It's about an hour and
half later. No Mandy, just Kira. So the parents thought,
(05:10):
obviously something was very very wrong with this, and they
waited for a little while, but as night got closer,
they knew something. There was something going on, and so
they called nine one one at seven pm. So the
town immediately goes into search mode. They have a massive
hunt for her. They started that night at nine forty
five pm with everyone who was available looking around for her.
(05:32):
But sadly, it was three days before Ron Peterson, the
detective on her case, found Mandy. The team was actually
piloting a little Zodiac boat along the river. They were
taking these little side channels off, kind of like looking
for signs, and that's when the detective noticed something pink,
and as he got closer he realized that it was
Mandy and she was wearing only her pink socks and
(05:53):
tennis shoes, completely nude. I'm going to go into a
description of body now, so if that's not really your jam.
Let's just skip forward maybe about a minute ding which
is dead. I don't know. That's my that's my skip
(06:14):
forward if you if you're uncomfortable, we need to get
like a chime or something. We do like a little
finger symbol, a little triangle. Oh my god, that's what
we'll do every time we do it. We'll just get
that scene from SNL with a triangle. You're right. An
autopsy done by medical examiner Gary Goldfogel determined that Mandy
(06:36):
had drowned. He also found a blood clot on the
back of her head, which was indicative of potentially like
a blow to the head that could have caused unconsciousness.
He also did note down that Mandy was engaged in
sexual activity either directly before or directly after her death,
and semen was removed from her body and preserved. No
(06:56):
injuries were observed on her body other than the head
owned and a few superficial scratches which were on her
thighs kind of going from her knees all the way
up to her pelvis, then a little bit down towards
her legs towards her feet, and they believe that this
was actually caused by her running through bush in.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Either running or being dragged or carried at least I'm
thinking like, yeah, honestly armpits and then dragged through the
woods at.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
The very laict. Yeah, because it was scratched up, like
really sad. And if you kind of put all that together,
we'll kind of go into what detectives did piece together,
but it tells a very chilling tale. Luckily, the detective
on the case, Peterson, he had just taken a class
taught by the FBI on DNA, so this was the
late eighties, and he was very careful about making sure
(07:50):
that the DNA from the seamen and Maidie's body was
preserved appropriately and stored appropriately, So that obviously is going
to change a lot of things later on. But sadly,
as we know, this was unsulved for decades, way so long. Yeah,
it did take a long time.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
As far as the autopsy by the medical examiner, with
her cause of death being drowning, but also finding you said,
like a hemorrhage or a clot at the back of
her head. Yeah, I would assume that if like blunt
force trauma was involved too. I'm wondering what he used
because you could usually see an impact point. Uh, So
(08:30):
that that makes me curious, Like I'm wondering, like if
there was no other sign of trauma except for a
clot at the back of her head, I don't know,
that's weird or I feel like just punched her.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Oh, I see what you're saying, dude. I wonder if
it was like a stick, like a big heavy log
or something or rock.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Right, but you would you would still see impact on
the skull itself, Like your.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Skull is thick.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
But if you're hit with a blunt force object, there
is gonna be some sort of fracturingturn if enough force
is exerted, and I feel like in order to incapacitate
somebody in that way, like it there would be signs
of that on the skull as well.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
It was so interesting because I definitely took that to
mean like there was blunt what do you say, blunt
force trauma, blunt force trauma. That's I just assumed that
would also include like skull fracture. But if it doesn't,
that is so fascinating.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Or I'm wondering if like maybe she fell and hit
her head the back of her head.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Yeah, that's interesting. I hadn't even considered.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
That well, and then obviously she was still alive when
she was placed in the water.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Yes, so fortunately she was. So detectives obviously were trying
to piece together what possibly could have happened to her
during this run, and unfortunately turned a very little evidence,
considering they were able to find only one witness who
was driving these Washington back roads who saw her heading
home about an eighth the mile from her house, so
(09:56):
she was really close to being home. But because of
the lack of physical evidence, detectives believed that she was
abducted in a vehicle, likely by gunpoint, and they believe
that Kira, her dog, was either kicked by the suspect
into a ditch, which I thought was kind of interesting
because I don't know how they would have confirmed that right,
(10:18):
But in my opinion, I would imagine that whoever was
abducting her told her, you know, shut your dog up
or I'm going to kill your dog, And to me,
I would have been like, go away, yeah, go home,
go on, now get obviously I wasn't there. That's just
like I would have done whatever I could.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
And that's just so scary, like you're running with this
big ass German shepherd thinking that that is going to
be like a source of protection protection, or at least
like the deterrent made.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Yeah, deter people.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
I literally just had a fucking memory pop up on
my Facebook from when I got followed home when I
was walking Rufeo ten years ago and this dude tried
to come into my house and I was walking my
dog and he literally pet Rufeo said hi, and then
still try to like come in after me to my
fucking apartment.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Question did rufe say hell, no, no, he was fine,
and Rufy was like, come on in, bud, Yeah, the
fridge pretty much.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
So that's just such a scary thought to me that
you have this creature with you, this animal that's wanting
probably to protect her.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Right and then and then he's like no, no, no, no.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Probably yeah she was afraid that the dog was going
to get hurt.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Because that's that's exactly what I would have done. I'd
have been like, not my dog, you know, like whatever
you need, I'll get in the car with you, just
don't hurt my dog, Like I Yeah, it's crazy how
the table easily could have turned at that point for her.
They also discovered that Mandy had been taken about three
miles from where she was abducted, like likely in that Okay.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
So she was an eighth of a mile home and
then she was taken three miles okay.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Okay before she was unfortunately sexually assaulted. Based on the
scratches on her arms and legs, they believe those were
from BlackBerry bushes and they were in a pattern that
they believe was from her trying to run. They believed
she was caught, she was hit in the head with
a blunt object, and then she was placed in the
Nuksac River where she droned. So pretty horrible, pretty horrible
(12:14):
last couple hours, right, just awful. Yeah, I can't even imagine.
When the news of the discovery of Mandy's body started
kind of going through the town, tips began just pouring in,
including many tips about a local drifter his name was
David Succi, more tips about Mandy's boyfriend at the time,
and a few other folks in town that were considered
(12:35):
quote unquote off suspects. They were able to get about
thirty DNA samples from local men, especially those who were
kind of outsiders misfits, but they were unable to find
any of that matched the DNA that was found on Mandy.
So get this. Twenty five years is how long her
case was called for. Oh those poor parents. Yeah, I
(12:58):
can't even imagine a community. Yeah, it's such a small community.
I mean, just less than three hundred people. In the meantime,
a new detective has more recently taken over her case.
His name is Detective Kevin Bowie. He actually went to
Mandy's high school and he was a rookie cop when
she first went missing. Obviously, he was deeply impacted by
her case. Like most people in ACME, he was haunted
(13:19):
by the fact that their killer was never caught, that
they never really had a freaking lead, and that she
was kind of taken in such a horrific and tragic
way and there was just no answers, not for anybody,
especially not for her family. So as he's looking through
the case file again, a name catches his eye. This
man was a local drug dealer. His name was John
(13:41):
was in Newski. Nope, his name was sure I had
not Yeah. Fuck, his name was John was Nuski and
he was questioned in the nineteen eighties because he had
been overheard telling other townspeople that he knew who murdered me.
So Bowie was like, maybe there's more to this. I'm
(14:03):
going to go track this guy down. And now that
was Newski's a little bit older, maybe he's more willing
to talk. So Bowie traveled to where Waznowski was living now,
which was guess where Cambodia, bitch. She went all the
way to Cambodia to try to find the Mandy's killer,
and he was met with the same story. Was Newski
was like, I do not know who killed her.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Can you imagine getting the budget passed for that? God,
I just got to go on a trip real quick
to Cambodia.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
I'll be back on the taxpayer's die days, see ya.
So he was like mother fricker and he started going
through her case style again as the lead detective in
two thousand and nine. This time he was playing really
special attention to potential suspects and leads from the past,
so he was following up with multiple people who were
(14:52):
potentially of interest, and he even traveled to multiple states
to try to talk to different leads from file. To
everyone's dismay, all of these efforts were just dead ends,
dead ends one after another. As frustrated as he was.
He was not prepared for the break in the case
that would come just four years later. In twenty thirteen,
(15:13):
some moms in town, so they were locals, They had
taken their children to the local water park and they
were all kind of sitting chatting, gossiping little cheesemay at
the water hole, sneaking in white claws. And I don't
know if they did that, what I would do, bottle, Yeah,
(15:34):
be like, have you heard about Jim. Yeah, So one
of the moms offhandedly mentioned Mandy Stavic, and another mom
spoke up and immediately said, I'm actually pretty sure I
know who killed her. Another mom in the same group
also turned around and said, I think I do too.
It's wild, which is kind of crazy. I mean, I
(15:55):
get it sometimes you're just chatting. But together they decided
to kind of break off and talk about this a
little bit more specifically, Heather Backstrom and Mary Lee Anderson,
who had both gone to high school with Mandy.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Oh, I was just gonna ask, did they go to
high school together?
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Oh, that's definitely something that like left an impact lasting
impact on them, obviously.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Absolutely yeah, And they got together and neither woman. It
turns out had ever mentioned their suspicions out loud before.
They were terrified to know that both women actually suspected
the same man. When they finally said his name, yeah,
during an interview. Because this, to me, I was like, well,
(16:38):
why wouldn't you guys, you know, come to say something
up forward. They said that the small town mentality kept
them from speaking up so they had no evidence against
this man. They didn't want to accuse him of something
horrific over what was basically a hunch.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
But here's the thing for me is that they a
bunch of people came forward and put up other people
asked suspects, and yeah, we go. His family was affluent
and he wasn't an outsider. So that's why they don't
come forward and say something, which is so frustrating because
I'm sure that happens so often.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Absolutely. Well, Brett Masterson, who we had on the pod,
you know, Bret Brett, what did you do? We had
him on the pod. He gave us a story. It
was great, it was fantastic. It was the Ogres of
Indiana and he's from a small town in the middle
of Wyoming. Oh bitch Indiana. Yep, Oh sorry, they're all
(17:33):
the same state. I'm so sorry, you guys are not
all the same state, the same sort of mentality though.
It's like that, yeah, that nice polite mentality. Let that
woman get away with killing people for years, you know what?
See something say something like if somebody's a fucking creeping
call him out.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Yeah, it's not their fault that this went on for
so long.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
No, No, there's one person blame for this, and that
man is Timothy tim Bass Boom. So Timothy Bass had
also gone to school with the girls and with Mandy.
Both of these girls, as it turns out, had incredibly
creepy run ins with him around the time that Mandy
was killed. Fifteen year old Heather in the summer of
(18:31):
nineteen eighty nine, just months before Mandy was murdered, ran
into twenty year old Tim at a softball game. There
was those two and then like a whole group of people,
and so they all decided to go get ice cream
after the game, and Heather ended up getting stuck in
the car like right next to Tim just by happenstance,
and while sitting there, he started to hit on her
very creepily. He then grabbed a pen and started running
(18:55):
it up her legs since she was on shorts.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
I want to fucking slap the shit out of him.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
She said that the feeling that she got from being
around him was so uncomfortable.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
He just probably raised the hair on the back of
her neck.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
She knew something was off with this guy for sure,
then Mary Lee. In July of nineteen ninety one, which
would have been just two years after Mandy was murdered,
she was at home with her son when Tim knocks
on the door. He tells mary Lee that he had
been out hunting the whole day and he just really
needed to use her phone, so she lets him come
(19:29):
in and use the phone, and when she hands on
the phone in the kitchen, he starts dialing someone. But
mary Lee can hear this like beep beep beep, We're
sorry your call cannot be completed as dialed, and instead
of trying it again or anything, he just disconnects. So
he hangs up the phone and just starts walking towards
her bedroom. As he's walking, he says, you know, I
always drive by your house and I've always been in
(19:51):
love with you. Ew yes, He's telling her, like I
want to make love to you right now, Like let's
go in the bedroom and she's like, get the fuck out.
He's like, no, I'm not leaving. Absolutely creepy. She picks
up the phone and she's like, I'm calling the police,
and then that finally spooks him enough that he takes
off Jesus Christ. So to me, what was really interesting
(20:11):
about that story is the fact that he kind of
it sounds like, builds up these like mint these fictitious
relationships with these women by stalking them. So he's like,
I'm always driving by your house. I always drive by
your house, and like, watch you. That's terrifying. Absolutely, And
we're gonna go into why did she call the cops.
I don't think she did. Didn't report him at all.
(20:34):
She didn't want to deal with.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Retaliation because nothing probably would have come of it. It's like, well,
you let him in your house and he left when
you told him to leave, so right, exactly what can
we do.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Exactly? And I mean it's still like that to this day.
So now, Tim was a loner and a little off
when it came to social interactions as a teenager. His
younger brother Tom recalled that once after a girlfriend at
school dumped his ass.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
As you should, as you should when you're dating a
creepy guy.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Tim called her on the phone and he was holding
a pistol. He then told her he was going to
kill himself over and over again because she dumped him,
even though I.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Would have been like, bye, sorry, I have no sympathy
for people who try to manipulate.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
It's really not cool. No. And then he actually fired
the gun into the air, which I assume was to
make her believe like, oh he.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Killed yeah, to traumatize her and manipulate her.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Either way, Tom says that his brother Tim after that
was fucking weird about women, very weird. He appeared to
just truly hate them. He acted like women were inferior
to him. He would talk down to them, and he
would overall just berate them constantly. Sounds like somebody else
that you covered not too long ago. Oh are you
talking about? What do they call him? The Supreme gentleman? Y'all?
(22:03):
If you have not checked out the Elliott Roger two parter,
please do, because.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Yeah, sounds like he's in this band club.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, this is a red pill ass motherfucker
right here. So both Mary Lee and Heather decided that
if nothing else, they needed to at least bring up
this information to law enforcement. They called the police and
they told them that they thought Tim Bass might have
had something to do with Mandy's death because of his
behavior around the time that she was murdered. So the
(22:35):
detectives went ahead and looked it up, and they obviously
recognized the name as Tim Bass, who lived less than
two miles from Mandy's house an Acme and also right
along the route she took when she went running. He
would have been able to see her running by while
she was in high school, so he.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Knew what route she took.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
It's probably just one fucking room. Yeah, I guess she
had a couple, but that was a really common one
for her. They also discovered that he was four ahead
of Mandy in school, but started attending girls basketball games
when she was playing them. Gross Interestingly, detectives today mentioned
that the old guard didn't even think to question that
family since that family was so well liked. They had
(23:13):
originally narrowed their focus onto people who didn't fit into
the norm, which is what Candice was mentioning earlier. Huge mistake,
big mistake.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Huge.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
So because of this, nobody in the house was ever
asked to give a DNA sample. Yeah, that midtown politeness. Baby. Additionally,
I think this leads back to the fact that he
told did you say midtown politeness? I'm so sorry? Did I?
I wrote politeness? Small town lightness. I love that you
(23:48):
We all just let it go for a second, and
you're like, you know what, midtown. That can't be right.
People in midtown aren't polite. Midtown is not. Actually it's
pretty polite.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
No, it's pretty polite.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
A lot of gentrification of the area.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
You know, you're kidding me.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
That was so true, so accurate. But I mean, if
you think about it, if he was stalking some of
these women, it would make sense that he probably had
watched her run by a lot in high school and
then she left for college and had come back and
ran near him. He saw them running, absolutely, so detectives
(24:28):
kind of started looking at him a little bit more.
They really didn't have any other leads at this point.
They found that he was married with children, and he
had been driving a bakery truck for a very long time.
His wife, her name is Gina Malone, married him just
six weeks after Mandy's murder. Their marriage was not great.
Tim was abusive and controlling, and Gina at the time
(24:51):
of their wedding was just really looking for a way
out of her home life, which is how they usually
get them. They get them young, and they get them.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Family.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
I'm wondering if they were wealthy at least something like
if they own a bakery. I don't know if he
owned the bakery. If he's just a delivery driver, he's
just delivery driver. But I do know that the family
was well liked, Okay, so maybe she thought, if I
can get out of my family, maybe I can go
somewhere that seems a little bit more together. And then
(25:21):
unfortunately she got with this man. Once. Gina tried to
leave him, and he convinced her that if she ever
tried to leave him, he would find a way to
get her kids taken away from her and she would
never see them again, and that scared her enough to stay.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Fucking dick, dude, I know what an ass. Never used
your kids as leverage. I'm so sorry, but that is
like the most.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
It's the worst thing. If you do that, you're a
shitty piece of shit.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
It's the trashiest, fucking lowest thing that you could ever
fucking do.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Yeah, anyway, children for leverage is fucking crazy to me.
I don't have any kids. I know we're both not
past you.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
I've seen it happen time and time again, and I
think it's awful.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
My parents did it with you know, me and my sister,
and it it just makes everything so.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Bad, traumatizing and fucking yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
No, yeah, Well, detectives are starting to think that may
might actually be on to someone suspish at this point,
so they go to question him, and Tim first says,
I don't remember Mandy at all. Who Mandy who? Even
though Mandy's case was such a huge part of this community.
(26:32):
That's like fucking crazy that he would even pretend. Then,
as they pressed him, he casually mentions, oh, yeah, wasn't
she that girl you found in the river? Okay, first
red flag, the next red flag. They say, well, you know,
we're just trying to get DNA to make rule people out,
you know, And he says, oh, I've watched the crime shows,
the crime shows, and I know how often people go
(26:54):
to prison for giving their DNA, So I'm not doing it.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Only if you're fucking guiluilty, jackass.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
I'm like it literally says what the fuck? Yes? Because
they're guilty. I feel like that statement alone should just
give you a warrant and burrow. Yeah. So the team
then begins to follow Tim Bass, hoping to see him
like maybe drop something with his DNA, his DNA on it,
like a cigarette butt or something a napkin, but they
are actually unsuccessful. To make sure that they are not
(27:20):
focused inappropriately, this time, they also round up DNA from
thirty six other men in the area over the next
few months. At this time, Tim is still the only
one refusing to cooperate. Red flat bro. Now get this twist,
the case of badass women. That's what this should be called.
So the women in this case get together just to
(27:44):
take down this perv, and I love it so much. Yes,
the police are fed up with Tim's bullshit and they
are now calling his boss, a woman named Kim Wagner
at the bakery. So Tim, I don't no, I don't
think no, you're good. But Tim had actually never called
Kim by her name. He called her woman like woman,
(28:04):
Get me a drink.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
I would have fucking fired his ass, fucking for real
day one.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
First all, Kim, you have the patience of a saint,
because if somebody ever talked to me like that.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
It was probably a favor to his parents or something.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Probably I don't know, because that's crazy. Yeah, he just
called her woman. Woman, I'm gonna take this truck out,
not me.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
But I digress.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
I'm not the one certain she's got me twisted. As
Kim is chatting with the detectives, they're kind of giving
her like clues a little bit as to maybe what
they're fishing for, and she realizes that they are investigating
the Mandy Stabbitt case. She puts two and two together
on her own, and she also realizes that what they
need is probably Tim's DNA. Immediately she says, I'll get
(28:44):
it for you. I love her, We love Kim. Where Kim,
We stay on Kim everything, she says. Working with him
at this point was even more uncomfortable than before, because
now she knew that there was a chance that he
had done this horrible thing. She wanted to either exonerate
him or obviously prove him guilty, so she watched him
(29:06):
diligently waiting for him to drop anything with his saliva.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Well, I'm sure that's fucking nerve wracking for her too,
because if he's capable of such a violent fucking crime.
Who's to say he wouldn't if you found out that
she was trying to absolutely incriminate him, he wouldn't do
the same to.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
Her, exactly one hundred percent. I mean, how scary. So
she's watching him. I mean she would empty the trash
before he came in, just in case he threw something
away so she could snatch it. It actually took three
months for her to get it. This dude was so
careful for three months, and then I think he just
kind of thought it's ober. Yeah. So he finally tossed
(29:41):
a plastic cup and a coke can on the same
day in the trash at work, and she fucking shackpot
snatched it up and gave it to the police. Three
more months later, they finally got a DNA match and
it was a match to Tim Bass. Yah, finally. You know,
I think it's craazy sometimes, like we're all I mean,
(30:02):
I think all of us here anyway, are all such
true crime fans, and we probably all watch so much
Law and Order.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
As for you, did you think that it just happened
so quickly? Yeah, that's not what you're gonna say.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Oh, I was gonna say I was gonna say, like,
we really think about what it takes to make a case,
and I feel like that's what happened here. He thought, as.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Long as I don't have evidence, yeah, as.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Long as I don't drop anything with my DNA on
it for the rest of my life, And then he did.
Three month later, He's.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Like, I'm wondering, didn't he have a brother, hed a brother,
and the brother refused to provide DNA too, because when
they'd be like at least a partial match, special.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Match, yeah, familial match, and we'll kind of go into
that match. Yeah yeah, I mean, y'all are not gonna
leave this motherfucker. Okay, So the police decided to again.
Oh god, this time they take things from another angle.
They start questioning him about his relationship with Mandy. They're like, oh,
did you guys ever hook up or make out or anything?
And Tim's like, no, absolutely not, and we would never
(31:02):
do that day. And so then they finally twisted and
they're like, well, then, how'd your DNA get in her? Then?
And he starts to back pedal, how'd you get my DNA?
What are you talking about? What do you mean? So
on December twelfth, twenty seventeen, after twenty eight years, Tim
was arrested on charges of kidnapping, rape, murder. But of
course it doesn't end there. In fact, the prosecutor on
(31:25):
this case came out of retirement to do this one
pro bono. Hell yeah, he was like, I was there
at the beginning, and I want to fucking finish it. Yeah. So,
if law and order has taught me anything it's that
scumbags be scumming. That should be on a T shirts,
comebacks and backs scumming. This man's march idea, somebody get
your boy. So he decides to try to get in
(31:46):
front of the DNA. Of course, this is what they
always do. He tells the detectives and then his wife
that he and Mandy were having a secret affair at
the time.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Actually, oh, my godness, part wife that's already gone through
so much of your bullshit, bro, I know.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Right, Well, it's like, I don't really think Mandy Stovich
would have even looked at him. No, and y'all we
will post the pictures. But so he starts to claim
that they had consensual sex just hours before her death,
which would also make him the last person to ever
see her, and that the burden of proof is on
the prosecution to show that they weren't having consensual sex.
(32:20):
Good luck. So the prosecution said, motherfucker. And so they
started digging through files and files and files and phone records,
and they were unable to show that they ever had
even talked to one another. No phone calls, no pictures,
any evidence that they were acquainted at all. None. After
Tim's arrest for Mandy's rape and murder, Gina, his wife,
(32:42):
was finally able to leave him woo, and she said
that she knew she had the duty to do the
right thing. In testifying for the prosecution, so she was
shaking on the stand, like shaking visibly and like could
not look.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
At him because I get off. Then oh, she's.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
I'm sure she was terrified, dude, But she fucking did it.
And she said that she saw Tim ask his mother
if they could all say that Tim's dad had done
it instead, since he was already dead Jesus, his father
had passed away. Wow, bro, And he was like, well,
let's just say dad did it. Cool story, fucking bro,
fuck a piece of shit. Can you believe that? And
(33:18):
his mother, she said that his mother was like held
her head in her hands for a second and she
was like no.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
I was like, I'm not going to fucking completely ruin
your father's reputation because you're a piece of shit.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Right, I mean at this point, like mother's I know
you love your kids and I'm not a mom and
I don't understand, but they do some dumb as shit
like this. We got to hold them accountable, right right.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
You would do anything to protect your kids from what
I hear.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
But I asked my mom once if she would help
me high like hide a body, and she said no,
my mom would. I'm coming to your mom because I
was like, what do you mean you wouldn't help me?
And she was like, oh no, I'm turning you in immediately.
It was like a snitch.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
I think I fucking asked her this recently and she
was like, I live buy the Apple atches now, like, yeah,
we could find space, will figure it out. You need
help having a body.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Body, don't even worry. Oh my god, want to see heart.
I don't know. I don't know. I mean, the thing is,
I feel like my mom would know. Your mom would
know that we wouldn't kill somebody unless they deserved it.
I'll have to cut all this out or will you
I mean not, Yeah, you're right.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
We wouldn't like go out of our way to intentionally
harm somebody that didn't deserve it.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
You know what, Actually we do need we do need
to have the the live Okay, where was it? Oh yeah,
So his brother Tom, who we kind of mentioned earlier,
also took the stand.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
I'm sorry, Tim and Tom, I.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
Know, Timothy and Thomas, Timothy and Tomothy, Timothy and Tomothy anyway, sorry,
I hate it, hate it too, and I keep getting
them confused. So they His brother Tom takes the stand
and he says that in twenty fifteen, when Tim was
originally under investigation, he had come to Tom and told
(35:05):
him that he Tim and Mandy had slept together before
she died. So he was trying to plant that seed, like, oh, yeah,
we hooked up just in case. His brother's like I
fucking didn't and his brother's like okay. And I will
say that Tom was like a little hesitant to get
(35:26):
on the stand because it was his brother. He didn't
want to believe that his brother could do something like this,
and he also, you know, knew that his family was
going to really reject him for testifying, but he felt
like he had to do it and just tell the
truth and whatever came out came out, and get that
off his fucking conscience too. Yeah. Absolutely, because Tim also
(35:50):
followed up his admission of the alleged sex with Mandy
with a freaky request of his brother. Tim asked Tom
to tell the detectives that Tom was all so sleeping
with Mandy static before she died. Tom suggests that this
was his brother trying to paint Mandy as someone who
gets around and potentially wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
Discredit the yeah seamen found.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Yeah, yep, potentially wouldn't be as picky about who she
was sleeping with, which is crazy. What a jackass. I'm
sorry this guy. No, it's okay. You can laugh at
him because he sucks, unless you were laughing at me,
which case that's rude. No, I was laughing at you.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
I'm just like, yeah, tell them that she slept with
you too, so it looks like she doesn't. She has
low standards obviously.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
Because if she's sleeping with.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
You, because she's sleeping with me and you, then oh
my god, yeah, shithead, what an absolute countosaurus.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Yeah, nobody would believe that Maddy would woke up with
his dorky ass in high school. Another incident that Tom
brought up was that Tim had asked his mother and
Tom his brother, to alibi him for that night. Allegedly,
Tim had said, Man, I'm going to need a strong
alibi or I'm going to prison. He asked his mother
(37:10):
to tell the police that they were out Christmas shopping
in town that day so that they couldn't put him
at the scene at the scene. So another part of
this trial, which lasted nine days, by the way, with
the DNA at the heart of the case and really
the only physical evidence was the DNA showing that these
two were together, was the semen aspect of it. And
(37:30):
so we are going to talk about semen doctors, or
as we like to call them in the real world.
Was just like, bro, what are you talking about the
semen doctors, semen doctor, androgynists. I think they're called androgynists.
(37:51):
That's right, right, No, that's not right, andro gymnasts, gas
andro God, damn it. I'll have just type in semen
doctor again. Andrologist, the andrologist, andrologist. Okay, So the andrologists
(38:15):
that were hired by both the prosecution and the defense
testified to semen being testable and retrievable up to forty
eight hours after the fact that like after the ejaculation. Yep, bro,
what the hell was that? I did not think? Just
(38:36):
gestured you got it though, didn't you?
Speaker 2 (38:40):
I was ejaculation.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
Ejaculation?
Speaker 1 (38:43):
Yes, So apparently a semen is retrievable and testable up
to forty eight hours after ejaculation has already happened. But
the markers on the semen indicated that this particular set
of semen would have had to have happened much sooner,
likely very very quickly before her death life within the hour, correct.
(39:05):
So because of that, there was a little bit of
controversy I guess between could it have been longer and
could they have slept together days before or did it happen,
you know, right beforehand. But I will say regardless, the
jury came back with a guilty verdict on all counts,
(39:26):
including rape, kidnapping, and second degree murder, which I assume
was because there's no way to prove meditated.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
Well that and she drowned, right, yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
Yeah, twenty nine years after her death, they finally got
justice for many christ To this day, this motherfucker was
still saying that he's innocent. His mother made a statement
at his sentencing saying that her son was innocent and
that he never tried to blame his father. But the
judge sentenced him to the max or near max sentence
of twenty seven years in prison. That's not long, no,
I agree for me, it's all. Was it surprised to
(40:00):
see convictions on such small amounts of physical evidence, but
I think that's because we live in such a physical
evidence based world nowadays. I obviously they could not prove
that this was murder one or anything, but I'm not
actually sure if he meant to kill Mandy or that
maybe he thought he accidentally killed her when he hit
the back of the head put her in the water
(40:22):
to get rid of the evidence. Yeah. Absolutely, But we
talked about this a little bit last time too. But
I wonder if he ever did it again, because I
almost feel like this was an escalation based on the
patterns we were seeing where he was being creepy with girls,
then Mandy dies, then he shows up at that girl's house, Like,
(40:45):
are we to assume that that just went away? Or
did he just start picking let more vulnerable victims perhaps,
or was he so shaken by the outcome of killing
Mandy that he became too afraid to do anything else
the outlet. Yeah, totally potentially. I mean he married her
six weeks six weeks after Yeah, absolutely chilling, chilling case.
(41:11):
But at least Mandy was able to get justice in
the end because some badass bitches finally got together and
were like, you know, we don't like that.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
Guy, you know, who's a fucking creep tim.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
Okay, well, guys, that's all I have on this one.
Thank you all so much for hanging out with us again.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
Thank you for sharing that case.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
Yeah, oh yeah, makeup looks so good. You just look
so cute today. Sorry.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
Thanks, ran out of the house until I looked in
the mirror.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
Like fuck really, oh my god, I wish that was
my fuck, like this is my oh no, like my.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
Full banks across and I just could not get them
to stay. Even with hairspray lately. It's just I need
a haircut real bad.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
I think you're just looking really cute, and I would
wipe you up so up. Sometimes I would get a
little gay on the show with you, and I'm like, Sarah,
I should rain it back.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
It's like we're running away together. We already planned this.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Episode one hundred you and me running away to sad Cobo,
San Lucas or some ship so interested in Cabo. I
feel like we could get away with that for a while.
At least.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
Yeah, they would never know because neither of our it's
gonna be another's listened to.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
This podcast, so true, goddamn it. Alex did say he
listened to your last episode and I was like.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
Did you so, yeah, there's aliens and oh yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
He probably was like he got through my pronunciation of
wanga and he's like, gotta go. He was like, actually
got it through. Cannot He's like, there's two pegg of
heels in that two pegg of heels. No, I feel
like you're a Beggy Hill and I'm I'm worse Homer
Simpson or something, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
Like Ione was watching an episode of Expedition X. I
don't know if you have watched that show at all.
They were talking about the bell Witch last night, and
I want to do that case so bad.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
Who put bell in them?
Speaker 2 (43:19):
No?
Speaker 1 (43:19):
No?
Speaker 3 (43:19):
Oh, the bell Witch?
Speaker 1 (43:20):
The Haunting?
Speaker 2 (43:21):
Yeah, yes, from like eighteenth century.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
I love that one.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
It's fucking crazy. And cattle mutilation actually was the episode
that I started on, and it was fucking crazy because
they actually like caught on camera some weird UFO, like
they didn't know what it was, and it was like
cattle started freaking out where she was at because she
was like staying with the cattle, and he went to
like this abandoned air force base and he was looking around.
(43:50):
And then while the cattle are freaking out, the same time,
signature from like her video footage that she like shows
him has like these weird little orbs or like orange orbs,
but they're decent size, but they're literally like.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
But and then they like do a little turn and
just like is that a satellite. He's like, satellite, don't
move like that.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
It was crazy because they had lost like five calves
in the span of like I.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
Think a week. Oh that's so spooky, dude.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
And then they did a test to like a controlled
test where they got like one of the steered had
died of natural causes, and so they brought it out
on like a forklift and like put it in this
like secluded area and then they put cameras and sensors
all around it and it showed how like natural you
can call.
Speaker 3 (44:39):
It right now.
Speaker 2 (44:40):
Fucking But anyway, they put like they put it out
there and they put all these cameras on it, and
they watched like a time lapse of it fucking decomposing
and being you know, like broken down by insects and
like other fauna, and they're like, Nope, there's nothing that
it's Yes, it looks weird, but it's not the same
as the cattle mutilation ship like.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
Free key though.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
That's what it made me think of your case because
they were like the penis testical scrot them and the
tongue and.
Speaker 1 (45:10):
Heart were all taken. Yeah, sorr to Slews Spooky Squad.
If you guys have any cool alien stuff, we want
to hear about it, because I think we want to
do a case of alien stuff. I'm so down. Have
you ever seen you? No, but I've been you a
(45:30):
full hunting a lot. I've seen them three times. I
guess we don't need you guys, after all. I'm just kidding.
That's so cool.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
I haven't seen an alien obviously, but yet.
Speaker 1 (45:44):
Oh my, I don't want to plait a second. But yeah, anyway,
but anyway, if you guys have any case corrections, any
cases you want us to cover any.
Speaker 2 (45:54):
Coffee shops, snacks, sweet shacks, recipes, good news, that's what's
happening in your lives right now.
Speaker 1 (46:03):
Then you can hit us up on Instagram, I'm at
Scream Dot and Dot Sugar Dot podcast on Facebook, Scream
and Sugar, True Crime Coffee Hour on TikTok, Scream Dot
and Dot Sugar, or hit us up on the Gmail
Scream and Sugar Reno at gmail dot com. Oh and
remember you can now also interact with us on both
our Spreaker platform oh yeah, and Spotify and on Spotify.
So chat with us cap scream on Sugar Baby. We
(46:26):
wanna chat. We want to Hello chat, We want to
Hello chat. All right. In the meantime, remember just stay.
Speaker 3 (46:33):
Suky y'all bye, m.
Speaker 1 (47:09):
Don't feel the reason the prescription has more cow bell that.
Speaker 2 (47:12):
Would be footing for this podcast too.
Speaker 1 (47:15):
Seasons. Okay, we're way off target. That's great, It's I'm
gonna have so much fun editing this one.
Welcome back, everybody to another episode of Scream and Sugar,
your true crime coffee hour, where we dive into the
darker side of humanity while enjoying a little sweetness on
the side. I am your host, Sahara, I'm Candace, and
today we're going to be covering the unusual and twisted
case of Mandy Static. And on that note, Hi everybody, Hey,
(00:52):
how are all of you? We'd love to hear from
you more. Did you know that on Spotify I found
this out you can actually interact with us? Oh shit, yeah,
there's a comment section at the bottom. I didn't know that.
So if you ever just want to get up in
there and comment stuff.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Yeah, and if you still haven't reviewed our shit.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Oh yeah, give us a review. Good on it. Please.
We just want to think all of you who have
done it, Like so many people have come up to
me and just said like, hey, I've shared this with
XX and X, and I show this to my coworkers
and I shows my friends and it just means so
much to us. So thank you so much from the
bottom of our hearts. Absolutely. In fact, didn't we get
a message from a down under listener?
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Yes, yes, there is an episode that I'm going to
be covering from that listener as well. And someone else
approached me and said that their friend has been listening
and they really appreciated all of our D and D references,
our nerdy isms, a nerdisms.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
So fellow nerds unite. Yeah, we're happy to hear there's
a lot of nerds out there with us, because unfortunately
it is who we are to the cool cool to
the cross nailed it all right, Well, guys, today we
(02:06):
are going to be hopping into a pretty tragic case
that we actually have already covered, but you never got
to hear it because it got deleted. Wah wah wam
so sad. Today is a new day where allegedly it
will not get deleted.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Fingers fucking crossed.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Yeah, okay, just keeps like making fucking over this grandpa
anxious eye contact with the screen.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Well, just notice that there's a microphone over there now too, So.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Maybe I'll just sit over there. No, you can just
stare at the back of my head. Did you have
a nice shaped skull? It looks like an egg, like
a small egg, very smooth, smooth like my brain, smooth
and no bridges, just like a tongue in there. When
William really wants to like hype me up, He's like,
(02:53):
oh yeah, babe, you're so smart, like a tongue in
that head, and I'm like, what the fuck does that mean?
It's like your brain, it's got no bridges, so smooth.
It's just the fuck up, dude, fucking William. But this
case you guys may have heard of. Obviously, Candice has
definitely heard of it. So if I forget anything, please
feel free to jump in. But we're actually going to
be talking about this really heartbreaking and for a very
(03:15):
long time unsolved case of Mandy Stavick. This story takes
place in the small town of Acame, Washington, which was,
as we determined in our last session, very small. We're
talking like two hundred and twenty four people small, so
very very small town, and it remained cold for nearly
three decades. So I actually found out about this case
on a one of those recent episodes of forty eight Hours,
(03:38):
So you guys maybe have seen that one, but I
want to warn you if you do watch that, the
interviews with Mandy's parents are extremely emotional and just like
really heartbreaking. Like there was this point where her dad
was talking and I was just like tearing up. So
it's a difficult story, but I also believe it's important
to tal it and keep Mandy, you know, alive. Okay.
(03:58):
So Mandy Stavick was absolutely stunning you guys, like, we'll
obviously we'll post up some pictures and things. But she
was so beautiful. And she grew up in the small
town of obviously Acme, Washington. She was an aspiring airline pilot.
She was a cheerleader, a basketball player, She was a
top academic in her class, like clearly a very go getter,
(04:20):
and she was always interested in trying to do, as
her mom put it, like everything. I feel like Cannice
and I can really relate to that because we also
are always like, yeah, we could do that. Yeah, I'll
do that myrown. Yeah. So she was a college freshman,
so she had actually just started at Central Washington University,
and then she would return home for the holidays, back
(04:40):
to where her high school was and where her parents
were living.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
This is Thanksgiving, yes.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Yes, So she went for a run around three pm
on November twenty fourth, nineteen eighty nine, so it was
the day after Thanksgiving, and she went on a run
with her dog, Kira, who was a big German shepherd.
Her parents were at home, they were preparing dinner when
the German shepherd suddenly just returns back to the house
all alone at four thirty. It's about an hour and
half later. No Mandy, just Kira. So the parents thought,
(05:10):
obviously something was very very wrong with this, and they
waited for a little while, but as night got closer,
they knew something. There was something going on, and so
they called nine one one at seven pm. So the
town immediately goes into search mode. They have a massive
hunt for her. They started that night at nine forty
five pm with everyone who was available looking around for her.
(05:32):
But sadly, it was three days before Ron Peterson, the
detective on her case, found Mandy. The team was actually
piloting a little Zodiac boat along the river. They were
taking these little side channels off, kind of like looking
for signs, and that's when the detective noticed something pink,
and as he got closer he realized that it was
Mandy and she was wearing only her pink socks and
(05:53):
tennis shoes, completely nude. I'm going to go into a
description of body now, so if that's not really your jam.
Let's just skip forward maybe about a minute ding which
is dead. I don't know. That's my that's my skip
(06:14):
forward if you if you're uncomfortable, we need to get
like a chime or something. We do like a little
finger symbol, a little triangle. Oh my god, that's what
we'll do every time we do it. We'll just get
that scene from SNL with a triangle. You're right. An
autopsy done by medical examiner Gary Goldfogel determined that Mandy
(06:36):
had drowned. He also found a blood clot on the
back of her head, which was indicative of potentially like
a blow to the head that could have caused unconsciousness.
He also did note down that Mandy was engaged in
sexual activity either directly before or directly after her death,
and semen was removed from her body and preserved. No
(06:56):
injuries were observed on her body other than the head
owned and a few superficial scratches which were on her
thighs kind of going from her knees all the way
up to her pelvis, then a little bit down towards
her legs towards her feet, and they believe that this
was actually caused by her running through bush in.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Either running or being dragged or carried at least I'm
thinking like, yeah, honestly armpits and then dragged through the
woods at.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
The very laict. Yeah, because it was scratched up, like
really sad. And if you kind of put all that together,
we'll kind of go into what detectives did piece together,
but it tells a very chilling tale. Luckily, the detective
on the case, Peterson, he had just taken a class
taught by the FBI on DNA, so this was the
late eighties, and he was very careful about making sure
(07:50):
that the DNA from the seamen and Maidie's body was
preserved appropriately and stored appropriately, So that obviously is going
to change a lot of things later on. But sadly,
as we know, this was unsulved for decades, way so long. Yeah,
it did take a long time.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
As far as the autopsy by the medical examiner, with
her cause of death being drowning, but also finding you said,
like a hemorrhage or a clot at the back of
her head. Yeah, I would assume that if like blunt
force trauma was involved too. I'm wondering what he used
because you could usually see an impact point. Uh, So
(08:30):
that that makes me curious, Like I'm wondering, like if
there was no other sign of trauma except for a
clot at the back of her head, I don't know,
that's weird or I feel like just punched her.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Oh, I see what you're saying, dude. I wonder if
it was like a stick, like a big heavy log
or something or rock.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Right, but you would you would still see impact on
the skull itself, Like your.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Skull is thick.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
But if you're hit with a blunt force object, there
is gonna be some sort of fracturingturn if enough force
is exerted, and I feel like in order to incapacitate
somebody in that way, like it there would be signs
of that on the skull as well.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
It was so interesting because I definitely took that to
mean like there was blunt what do you say, blunt
force trauma, blunt force trauma. That's I just assumed that
would also include like skull fracture. But if it doesn't,
that is so fascinating.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Or I'm wondering if like maybe she fell and hit
her head the back of her head.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Yeah, that's interesting. I hadn't even considered.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
That well, and then obviously she was still alive when
she was placed in the water.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Yes, so fortunately she was. So detectives obviously were trying
to piece together what possibly could have happened to her
during this run, and unfortunately turned a very little evidence,
considering they were able to find only one witness who
was driving these Washington back roads who saw her heading
home about an eighth the mile from her house, so
(09:56):
she was really close to being home. But because of
the lack of physical evidence, detectives believed that she was
abducted in a vehicle, likely by gunpoint, and they believe
that Kira, her dog, was either kicked by the suspect
into a ditch, which I thought was kind of interesting
because I don't know how they would have confirmed that right,
(10:18):
But in my opinion, I would imagine that whoever was
abducting her told her, you know, shut your dog up
or I'm going to kill your dog, And to me,
I would have been like, go away, yeah, go home,
go on, now get obviously I wasn't there. That's just
like I would have done whatever I could.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
And that's just so scary, like you're running with this
big ass German shepherd thinking that that is going to
be like a source of protection protection, or at least
like the deterrent made.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Yeah, deter people.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
I literally just had a fucking memory pop up on
my Facebook from when I got followed home when I
was walking Rufeo ten years ago and this dude tried
to come into my house and I was walking my
dog and he literally pet Rufeo said hi, and then
still try to like come in after me to my
fucking apartment.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Question did rufe say hell, no, no, he was fine,
and Rufy was like, come on in, bud, Yeah, the
fridge pretty much.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
So that's just such a scary thought to me that
you have this creature with you, this animal that's wanting
probably to protect her.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Right and then and then he's like no, no, no, no.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Probably yeah she was afraid that the dog was going
to get hurt.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Because that's that's exactly what I would have done. I'd
have been like, not my dog, you know, like whatever
you need, I'll get in the car with you, just
don't hurt my dog, Like I Yeah, it's crazy how
the table easily could have turned at that point for her.
They also discovered that Mandy had been taken about three
miles from where she was abducted, like likely in that Okay.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
So she was an eighth of a mile home and
then she was taken three miles okay.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Okay before she was unfortunately sexually assaulted. Based on the
scratches on her arms and legs, they believe those were
from BlackBerry bushes and they were in a pattern that
they believe was from her trying to run. They believed
she was caught, she was hit in the head with
a blunt object, and then she was placed in the
Nuksac River where she droned. So pretty horrible, pretty horrible
(12:14):
last couple hours, right, just awful. Yeah, I can't even imagine.
When the news of the discovery of Mandy's body started
kind of going through the town, tips began just pouring in,
including many tips about a local drifter his name was
David Succi, more tips about Mandy's boyfriend at the time,
and a few other folks in town that were considered
(12:35):
quote unquote off suspects. They were able to get about
thirty DNA samples from local men, especially those who were
kind of outsiders misfits, but they were unable to find
any of that matched the DNA that was found on Mandy.
So get this. Twenty five years is how long her
case was called for. Oh those poor parents. Yeah, I
(12:58):
can't even imagine a community. Yeah, it's such a small community.
I mean, just less than three hundred people. In the meantime,
a new detective has more recently taken over her case.
His name is Detective Kevin Bowie. He actually went to
Mandy's high school and he was a rookie cop when
she first went missing. Obviously, he was deeply impacted by
her case. Like most people in ACME, he was haunted
(13:19):
by the fact that their killer was never caught, that
they never really had a freaking lead, and that she
was kind of taken in such a horrific and tragic
way and there was just no answers, not for anybody,
especially not for her family. So as he's looking through
the case file again, a name catches his eye. This
man was a local drug dealer. His name was John
(13:41):
was in Newski. Nope, his name was sure I had
not Yeah. Fuck, his name was John was Nuski and
he was questioned in the nineteen eighties because he had
been overheard telling other townspeople that he knew who murdered me.
So Bowie was like, maybe there's more to this. I'm
(14:03):
going to go track this guy down. And now that
was Newski's a little bit older, maybe he's more willing
to talk. So Bowie traveled to where Waznowski was living now,
which was guess where Cambodia, bitch. She went all the
way to Cambodia to try to find the Mandy's killer,
and he was met with the same story. Was Newski
was like, I do not know who killed her.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Can you imagine getting the budget passed for that? God,
I just got to go on a trip real quick
to Cambodia.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
I'll be back on the taxpayer's die days, see ya.
So he was like mother fricker and he started going
through her case style again as the lead detective in
two thousand and nine. This time he was playing really
special attention to potential suspects and leads from the past,
so he was following up with multiple people who were
(14:52):
potentially of interest, and he even traveled to multiple states
to try to talk to different leads from file. To
everyone's dismay, all of these efforts were just dead ends,
dead ends one after another. As frustrated as he was.
He was not prepared for the break in the case
that would come just four years later. In twenty thirteen,
(15:13):
some moms in town, so they were locals, They had
taken their children to the local water park and they
were all kind of sitting chatting, gossiping little cheesemay at
the water hole, sneaking in white claws. And I don't
know if they did that, what I would do, bottle, Yeah,
(15:34):
be like, have you heard about Jim. Yeah, So one
of the moms offhandedly mentioned Mandy Stavic, and another mom
spoke up and immediately said, I'm actually pretty sure I
know who killed her. Another mom in the same group
also turned around and said, I think I do too.
It's wild, which is kind of crazy. I mean, I
(15:55):
get it sometimes you're just chatting. But together they decided
to kind of break off and talk about this a
little bit more specifically, Heather Backstrom and Mary Lee Anderson,
who had both gone to high school with Mandy.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Oh, I was just gonna ask, did they go to
high school together?
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Oh, that's definitely something that like left an impact lasting
impact on them, obviously.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Absolutely yeah, And they got together and neither woman. It
turns out had ever mentioned their suspicions out loud before.
They were terrified to know that both women actually suspected
the same man. When they finally said his name, yeah,
during an interview. Because this, to me, I was like, well,
(16:38):
why wouldn't you guys, you know, come to say something
up forward. They said that the small town mentality kept
them from speaking up so they had no evidence against
this man. They didn't want to accuse him of something
horrific over what was basically a hunch.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
But here's the thing for me is that they a
bunch of people came forward and put up other people
asked suspects, and yeah, we go. His family was affluent
and he wasn't an outsider. So that's why they don't
come forward and say something, which is so frustrating because
I'm sure that happens so often.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Absolutely. Well, Brett Masterson, who we had on the pod,
you know, Bret Brett, what did you do? We had
him on the pod. He gave us a story. It
was great, it was fantastic. It was the Ogres of
Indiana and he's from a small town in the middle
of Wyoming. Oh bitch Indiana. Yep, Oh sorry, they're all
(17:33):
the same state. I'm so sorry, you guys are not
all the same state, the same sort of mentality though.
It's like that, yeah, that nice polite mentality. Let that
woman get away with killing people for years, you know what?
See something say something like if somebody's a fucking creeping
call him out.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Yeah, it's not their fault that this went on for
so long.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
No, No, there's one person blame for this, and that
man is Timothy tim Bass Boom. So Timothy Bass had
also gone to school with the girls and with Mandy.
Both of these girls, as it turns out, had incredibly
creepy run ins with him around the time that Mandy
was killed. Fifteen year old Heather in the summer of
(18:31):
nineteen eighty nine, just months before Mandy was murdered, ran
into twenty year old Tim at a softball game. There
was those two and then like a whole group of people,
and so they all decided to go get ice cream
after the game, and Heather ended up getting stuck in
the car like right next to Tim just by happenstance,
and while sitting there, he started to hit on her
very creepily. He then grabbed a pen and started running
(18:55):
it up her legs since she was on shorts.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
I want to fucking slap the shit out of him.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
She said that the feeling that she got from being
around him was so uncomfortable.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
He just probably raised the hair on the back of
her neck.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
She knew something was off with this guy for sure,
then Mary Lee. In July of nineteen ninety one, which
would have been just two years after Mandy was murdered,
she was at home with her son when Tim knocks
on the door. He tells mary Lee that he had
been out hunting the whole day and he just really
needed to use her phone, so she lets him come
(19:29):
in and use the phone, and when she hands on
the phone in the kitchen, he starts dialing someone. But
mary Lee can hear this like beep beep beep, We're
sorry your call cannot be completed as dialed, and instead
of trying it again or anything, he just disconnects. So
he hangs up the phone and just starts walking towards
her bedroom. As he's walking, he says, you know, I
always drive by your house and I've always been in
(19:51):
love with you. Ew yes, He's telling her, like I
want to make love to you right now, Like let's
go in the bedroom and she's like, get the fuck out.
He's like, no, I'm not leaving. Absolutely creepy. She picks
up the phone and she's like, I'm calling the police,
and then that finally spooks him enough that he takes
off Jesus Christ. So to me, what was really interesting
(20:11):
about that story is the fact that he kind of
it sounds like, builds up these like mint these fictitious
relationships with these women by stalking them. So he's like,
I'm always driving by your house. I always drive by
your house, and like, watch you. That's terrifying. Absolutely, And
we're gonna go into why did she call the cops.
I don't think she did. Didn't report him at all.
(20:34):
She didn't want to deal with.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Retaliation because nothing probably would have come of it. It's like, well,
you let him in your house and he left when
you told him to leave, so right, exactly what can
we do.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Exactly? And I mean it's still like that to this day.
So now, Tim was a loner and a little off
when it came to social interactions as a teenager. His
younger brother Tom recalled that once after a girlfriend at
school dumped his ass.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
As you should, as you should when you're dating a
creepy guy.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Tim called her on the phone and he was holding
a pistol. He then told her he was going to
kill himself over and over again because she dumped him,
even though I.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Would have been like, bye, sorry, I have no sympathy
for people who try to manipulate.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
It's really not cool. No. And then he actually fired
the gun into the air, which I assume was to
make her believe like, oh he.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Killed yeah, to traumatize her and manipulate her.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Either way, Tom says that his brother Tim after that
was fucking weird about women, very weird. He appeared to
just truly hate them. He acted like women were inferior
to him. He would talk down to them, and he
would overall just berate them constantly. Sounds like somebody else
that you covered not too long ago. Oh are you
talking about? What do they call him? The Supreme gentleman? Y'all?
(22:03):
If you have not checked out the Elliott Roger two parter,
please do, because.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Yeah, sounds like he's in this band club.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, this is a red pill ass motherfucker
right here. So both Mary Lee and Heather decided that
if nothing else, they needed to at least bring up
this information to law enforcement. They called the police and
they told them that they thought Tim Bass might have
had something to do with Mandy's death because of his
behavior around the time that she was murdered. So the
(22:35):
detectives went ahead and looked it up, and they obviously
recognized the name as Tim Bass, who lived less than
two miles from Mandy's house an Acme and also right
along the route she took when she went running. He
would have been able to see her running by while
she was in high school, so he.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Knew what route she took.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
It's probably just one fucking room. Yeah, I guess she
had a couple, but that was a really common one
for her. They also discovered that he was four ahead
of Mandy in school, but started attending girls basketball games
when she was playing them. Gross Interestingly, detectives today mentioned
that the old guard didn't even think to question that
family since that family was so well liked. They had
(23:13):
originally narrowed their focus onto people who didn't fit into
the norm, which is what Candice was mentioning earlier. Huge mistake,
big mistake.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Huge.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
So because of this, nobody in the house was ever
asked to give a DNA sample. Yeah, that midtown politeness. Baby. Additionally,
I think this leads back to the fact that he
told did you say midtown politeness? I'm so sorry? Did I?
I wrote politeness? Small town lightness. I love that you
(23:48):
We all just let it go for a second, and
you're like, you know what, midtown. That can't be right.
People in midtown aren't polite. Midtown is not. Actually it's
pretty polite.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
No, it's pretty polite.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
A lot of gentrification of the area.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
You know, you're kidding me.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
That was so true, so accurate. But I mean, if
you think about it, if he was stalking some of
these women, it would make sense that he probably had
watched her run by a lot in high school and
then she left for college and had come back and
ran near him. He saw them running, absolutely, so detectives
(24:28):
kind of started looking at him a little bit more.
They really didn't have any other leads at this point.
They found that he was married with children, and he
had been driving a bakery truck for a very long time.
His wife, her name is Gina Malone, married him just
six weeks after Mandy's murder. Their marriage was not great.
Tim was abusive and controlling, and Gina at the time
(24:51):
of their wedding was just really looking for a way
out of her home life, which is how they usually
get them. They get them young, and they get them.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Family.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
I'm wondering if they were wealthy at least something like
if they own a bakery. I don't know if he
owned the bakery. If he's just a delivery driver, he's
just delivery driver. But I do know that the family
was well liked, Okay, so maybe she thought, if I
can get out of my family, maybe I can go
somewhere that seems a little bit more together. And then
(25:21):
unfortunately she got with this man. Once. Gina tried to
leave him, and he convinced her that if she ever
tried to leave him, he would find a way to
get her kids taken away from her and she would
never see them again, and that scared her enough to stay.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Fucking dick, dude, I know what an ass. Never used
your kids as leverage. I'm so sorry, but that is
like the most.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
It's the worst thing. If you do that, you're a
shitty piece of shit.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
It's the trashiest, fucking lowest thing that you could ever
fucking do.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Yeah, anyway, children for leverage is fucking crazy to me.
I don't have any kids. I know we're both not
past you.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
I've seen it happen time and time again, and I
think it's awful.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
My parents did it with you know, me and my sister,
and it it just makes everything so.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Bad, traumatizing and fucking yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
No, yeah, Well, detectives are starting to think that may
might actually be on to someone suspish at this point,
so they go to question him, and Tim first says,
I don't remember Mandy at all. Who Mandy who? Even
though Mandy's case was such a huge part of this community.
(26:32):
That's like fucking crazy that he would even pretend. Then,
as they pressed him, he casually mentions, oh, yeah, wasn't
she that girl you found in the river? Okay, first
red flag, the next red flag. They say, well, you know,
we're just trying to get DNA to make rule people out,
you know, And he says, oh, I've watched the crime shows,
the crime shows, and I know how often people go
(26:54):
to prison for giving their DNA, So I'm not doing it.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Only if you're fucking guiluilty, jackass.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
I'm like it literally says what the fuck? Yes? Because
they're guilty. I feel like that statement alone should just
give you a warrant and burrow. Yeah. So the team
then begins to follow Tim Bass, hoping to see him
like maybe drop something with his DNA, his DNA on it,
like a cigarette butt or something a napkin, but they
are actually unsuccessful. To make sure that they are not
(27:20):
focused inappropriately, this time, they also round up DNA from
thirty six other men in the area over the next
few months. At this time, Tim is still the only
one refusing to cooperate. Red flat bro. Now get this twist,
the case of badass women. That's what this should be called.
So the women in this case get together just to
(27:44):
take down this perv, and I love it so much. Yes,
the police are fed up with Tim's bullshit and they
are now calling his boss, a woman named Kim Wagner
at the bakery. So Tim, I don't no, I don't
think no, you're good. But Tim had actually never called
Kim by her name. He called her woman like woman,
(28:04):
Get me a drink.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
I would have fucking fired his ass, fucking for real
day one.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
First all, Kim, you have the patience of a saint,
because if somebody ever talked to me like that.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
It was probably a favor to his parents or something.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Probably I don't know, because that's crazy. Yeah, he just
called her woman. Woman, I'm gonna take this truck out,
not me.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
But I digress.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
I'm not the one certain she's got me twisted. As
Kim is chatting with the detectives, they're kind of giving
her like clues a little bit as to maybe what
they're fishing for, and she realizes that they are investigating
the Mandy Stabbitt case. She puts two and two together
on her own, and she also realizes that what they
need is probably Tim's DNA. Immediately she says, I'll get
(28:44):
it for you. I love her, We love Kim. Where Kim,
We stay on Kim everything, she says. Working with him
at this point was even more uncomfortable than before, because
now she knew that there was a chance that he
had done this horrible thing. She wanted to either exonerate
him or obviously prove him guilty, so she watched him
(29:06):
diligently waiting for him to drop anything with his saliva.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Well, I'm sure that's fucking nerve wracking for her too,
because if he's capable of such a violent fucking crime.
Who's to say he wouldn't if you found out that
she was trying to absolutely incriminate him, he wouldn't do
the same to.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
Her, exactly one hundred percent. I mean, how scary. So
she's watching him. I mean she would empty the trash
before he came in, just in case he threw something
away so she could snatch it. It actually took three
months for her to get it. This dude was so
careful for three months, and then I think he just
kind of thought it's ober. Yeah. So he finally tossed
(29:41):
a plastic cup and a coke can on the same
day in the trash at work, and she fucking shackpot
snatched it up and gave it to the police. Three
more months later, they finally got a DNA match and
it was a match to Tim Bass. Yah, finally. You know,
I think it's craazy sometimes, like we're all I mean,
(30:02):
I think all of us here anyway, are all such
true crime fans, and we probably all watch so much
Law and Order.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
As for you, did you think that it just happened
so quickly? Yeah, that's not what you're gonna say.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Oh, I was gonna say I was gonna say, like,
we really think about what it takes to make a case,
and I feel like that's what happened here. He thought, as.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Long as I don't have evidence, yeah, as.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Long as I don't drop anything with my DNA on
it for the rest of my life, And then he did.
Three month later, He's.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Like, I'm wondering, didn't he have a brother, hed a brother,
and the brother refused to provide DNA too, because when
they'd be like at least a partial match, special.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Match, yeah, familial match, and we'll kind of go into
that match. Yeah yeah, I mean, y'all are not gonna
leave this motherfucker. Okay, So the police decided to again.
Oh god, this time they take things from another angle.
They start questioning him about his relationship with Mandy. They're like, oh,
did you guys ever hook up or make out or anything?
And Tim's like, no, absolutely not, and we would never
(31:02):
do that day. And so then they finally twisted and
they're like, well, then, how'd your DNA get in her? Then?
And he starts to back pedal, how'd you get my DNA?
What are you talking about? What do you mean? So
on December twelfth, twenty seventeen, after twenty eight years, Tim
was arrested on charges of kidnapping, rape, murder. But of
course it doesn't end there. In fact, the prosecutor on
(31:25):
this case came out of retirement to do this one
pro bono. Hell yeah, he was like, I was there
at the beginning, and I want to fucking finish it. Yeah. So,
if law and order has taught me anything it's that
scumbags be scumming. That should be on a T shirts,
comebacks and backs scumming. This man's march idea, somebody get
your boy. So he decides to try to get in
(31:46):
front of the DNA. Of course, this is what they
always do. He tells the detectives and then his wife
that he and Mandy were having a secret affair at
the time.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Actually, oh, my godness, part wife that's already gone through
so much of your bullshit, bro, I know.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Right, Well, it's like, I don't really think Mandy Stovich
would have even looked at him. No, and y'all we
will post the pictures. But so he starts to claim
that they had consensual sex just hours before her death,
which would also make him the last person to ever
see her, and that the burden of proof is on
the prosecution to show that they weren't having consensual sex.
(32:20):
Good luck. So the prosecution said, motherfucker. And so they
started digging through files and files and files and phone records,
and they were unable to show that they ever had
even talked to one another. No phone calls, no pictures,
any evidence that they were acquainted at all. None. After
Tim's arrest for Mandy's rape and murder, Gina, his wife,
(32:42):
was finally able to leave him woo, and she said
that she knew she had the duty to do the
right thing. In testifying for the prosecution, so she was
shaking on the stand, like shaking visibly and like could
not look.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
At him because I get off. Then oh, she's.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
I'm sure she was terrified, dude, But she fucking did it.
And she said that she saw Tim ask his mother
if they could all say that Tim's dad had done
it instead, since he was already dead Jesus, his father
had passed away. Wow, bro, And he was like, well,
let's just say dad did it. Cool story, fucking bro,
fuck a piece of shit. Can you believe that? And
(33:18):
his mother, she said that his mother was like held
her head in her hands for a second and she
was like no.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
I was like, I'm not going to fucking completely ruin
your father's reputation because you're a piece of shit.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Right, I mean at this point, like mother's I know
you love your kids and I'm not a mom and
I don't understand, but they do some dumb as shit
like this. We got to hold them accountable, right right.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
You would do anything to protect your kids from what
I hear.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
But I asked my mom once if she would help
me high like hide a body, and she said no,
my mom would. I'm coming to your mom because I
was like, what do you mean you wouldn't help me?
And she was like, oh no, I'm turning you in immediately.
It was like a snitch.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
I think I fucking asked her this recently and she
was like, I live buy the Apple atches now, like, yeah,
we could find space, will figure it out. You need
help having a body.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Body, don't even worry. Oh my god, want to see heart.
I don't know. I don't know. I mean, the thing is,
I feel like my mom would know. Your mom would
know that we wouldn't kill somebody unless they deserved it.
I'll have to cut all this out or will you
I mean not, Yeah, you're right.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
We wouldn't like go out of our way to intentionally
harm somebody that didn't deserve it.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
You know what, Actually we do need we do need
to have the the live Okay, where was it? Oh yeah,
So his brother Tom, who we kind of mentioned earlier,
also took the stand.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
I'm sorry, Tim and Tom, I.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
Know, Timothy and Thomas, Timothy and Tomothy, Timothy and Tomothy anyway, sorry,
I hate it, hate it too, and I keep getting
them confused. So they His brother Tom takes the stand
and he says that in twenty fifteen, when Tim was
originally under investigation, he had come to Tom and told
(35:05):
him that he Tim and Mandy had slept together before
she died. So he was trying to plant that seed, like, oh, yeah,
we hooked up just in case. His brother's like I
fucking didn't and his brother's like okay. And I will
say that Tom was like a little hesitant to get
(35:26):
on the stand because it was his brother. He didn't
want to believe that his brother could do something like this,
and he also, you know, knew that his family was
going to really reject him for testifying, but he felt
like he had to do it and just tell the
truth and whatever came out came out, and get that
off his fucking conscience too. Yeah. Absolutely, because Tim also
(35:50):
followed up his admission of the alleged sex with Mandy
with a freaky request of his brother. Tim asked Tom
to tell the detectives that Tom was all so sleeping
with Mandy static before she died. Tom suggests that this
was his brother trying to paint Mandy as someone who
gets around and potentially wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
Discredit the yeah seamen found.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Yeah, yep, potentially wouldn't be as picky about who she
was sleeping with, which is crazy. What a jackass. I'm
sorry this guy. No, it's okay. You can laugh at
him because he sucks, unless you were laughing at me,
which case that's rude. No, I was laughing at you.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
I'm just like, yeah, tell them that she slept with
you too, so it looks like she doesn't. She has
low standards obviously.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
Because if she's sleeping with.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
You, because she's sleeping with me and you, then oh
my god, yeah, shithead, what an absolute countosaurus.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Yeah, nobody would believe that Maddy would woke up with
his dorky ass in high school. Another incident that Tom
brought up was that Tim had asked his mother and
Tom his brother, to alibi him for that night. Allegedly,
Tim had said, Man, I'm going to need a strong
alibi or I'm going to prison. He asked his mother
(37:10):
to tell the police that they were out Christmas shopping
in town that day so that they couldn't put him
at the scene at the scene. So another part of
this trial, which lasted nine days, by the way, with
the DNA at the heart of the case and really
the only physical evidence was the DNA showing that these
two were together, was the semen aspect of it. And
(37:30):
so we are going to talk about semen doctors, or
as we like to call them in the real world.
Was just like, bro, what are you talking about the
semen doctors, semen doctor, androgynists. I think they're called androgynists.
(37:51):
That's right, right, No, that's not right, andro gymnasts, gas
andro God, damn it. I'll have just type in semen
doctor again. Andrologist, the andrologist, andrologist. Okay, So the andrologists
(38:15):
that were hired by both the prosecution and the defense
testified to semen being testable and retrievable up to forty
eight hours after the fact that like after the ejaculation. Yep, bro,
what the hell was that? I did not think? Just
(38:36):
gestured you got it though, didn't you?
Speaker 2 (38:40):
I was ejaculation.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
Ejaculation?
Speaker 1 (38:43):
Yes, So apparently a semen is retrievable and testable up
to forty eight hours after ejaculation has already happened. But
the markers on the semen indicated that this particular set
of semen would have had to have happened much sooner,
likely very very quickly before her death life within the hour, correct.
(39:05):
So because of that, there was a little bit of
controversy I guess between could it have been longer and
could they have slept together days before or did it happen,
you know, right beforehand. But I will say regardless, the
jury came back with a guilty verdict on all counts,
(39:26):
including rape, kidnapping, and second degree murder, which I assume
was because there's no way to prove meditated.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
Well that and she drowned, right, yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
Yeah, twenty nine years after her death, they finally got
justice for many christ To this day, this motherfucker was
still saying that he's innocent. His mother made a statement
at his sentencing saying that her son was innocent and
that he never tried to blame his father. But the
judge sentenced him to the max or near max sentence
of twenty seven years in prison. That's not long, no,
I agree for me, it's all. Was it surprised to
(40:00):
see convictions on such small amounts of physical evidence, but
I think that's because we live in such a physical
evidence based world nowadays. I obviously they could not prove
that this was murder one or anything, but I'm not
actually sure if he meant to kill Mandy or that
maybe he thought he accidentally killed her when he hit
the back of the head put her in the water
(40:22):
to get rid of the evidence. Yeah. Absolutely, But we
talked about this a little bit last time too. But
I wonder if he ever did it again, because I
almost feel like this was an escalation based on the
patterns we were seeing where he was being creepy with girls,
then Mandy dies, then he shows up at that girl's house, Like,
(40:45):
are we to assume that that just went away? Or
did he just start picking let more vulnerable victims perhaps,
or was he so shaken by the outcome of killing
Mandy that he became too afraid to do anything else
the outlet. Yeah, totally potentially. I mean he married her
six weeks six weeks after Yeah, absolutely chilling, chilling case.
(41:11):
But at least Mandy was able to get justice in
the end because some badass bitches finally got together and
were like, you know, we don't like that.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
Guy, you know, who's a fucking creep tim.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
Okay, well, guys, that's all I have on this one.
Thank you all so much for hanging out with us again.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
Thank you for sharing that case.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
Yeah, oh yeah, makeup looks so good. You just look
so cute today. Sorry.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
Thanks, ran out of the house until I looked in
the mirror.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
Like fuck really, oh my god, I wish that was
my fuck, like this is my oh no, like my.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
Full banks across and I just could not get them
to stay. Even with hairspray lately. It's just I need
a haircut real bad.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
I think you're just looking really cute, and I would
wipe you up so up. Sometimes I would get a
little gay on the show with you, and I'm like, Sarah,
I should rain it back.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
It's like we're running away together. We already planned this.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Episode one hundred you and me running away to sad Cobo,
San Lucas or some ship so interested in Cabo. I
feel like we could get away with that for a while.
At least.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
Yeah, they would never know because neither of our it's
gonna be another's listened to.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
This podcast, so true, goddamn it. Alex did say he
listened to your last episode and I was like.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
Did you so, yeah, there's aliens and oh yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
He probably was like he got through my pronunciation of
wanga and he's like, gotta go. He was like, actually
got it through. Cannot He's like, there's two pegg of
heels in that two pegg of heels. No, I feel
like you're a Beggy Hill and I'm I'm worse Homer
Simpson or something, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
Like Ione was watching an episode of Expedition X. I
don't know if you have watched that show at all.
They were talking about the bell Witch last night, and
I want to do that case so bad.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
Who put bell in them?
Speaker 2 (43:19):
No?
Speaker 1 (43:19):
No?
Speaker 3 (43:19):
Oh, the bell Witch?
Speaker 1 (43:20):
The Haunting?
Speaker 2 (43:21):
Yeah, yes, from like eighteenth century.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
I love that one.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
It's fucking crazy. And cattle mutilation actually was the episode
that I started on, and it was fucking crazy because
they actually like caught on camera some weird UFO, like
they didn't know what it was, and it was like
cattle started freaking out where she was at because she
was like staying with the cattle, and he went to
like this abandoned air force base and he was looking around.
(43:50):
And then while the cattle are freaking out, the same time,
signature from like her video footage that she like shows
him has like these weird little orbs or like orange orbs,
but they're decent size, but they're literally like.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
But and then they like do a little turn and
just like is that a satellite. He's like, satellite, don't
move like that.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
It was crazy because they had lost like five calves
in the span of like I.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
Think a week. Oh that's so spooky, dude.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
And then they did a test to like a controlled
test where they got like one of the steered had
died of natural causes, and so they brought it out
on like a forklift and like put it in this
like secluded area and then they put cameras and sensors
all around it and it showed how like natural you
can call.
Speaker 3 (44:39):
It right now.
Speaker 2 (44:40):
Fucking But anyway, they put like they put it out
there and they put all these cameras on it, and
they watched like a time lapse of it fucking decomposing
and being you know, like broken down by insects and
like other fauna, and they're like, Nope, there's nothing that
it's Yes, it looks weird, but it's not the same
as the cattle mutilation ship like.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
Free key though.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
That's what it made me think of your case because
they were like the penis testical scrot them and the
tongue and.
Speaker 1 (45:10):
Heart were all taken. Yeah, sorr to Slews Spooky Squad.
If you guys have any cool alien stuff, we want
to hear about it, because I think we want to
do a case of alien stuff. I'm so down. Have
you ever seen you? No, but I've been you a
(45:30):
full hunting a lot. I've seen them three times. I
guess we don't need you guys, after all. I'm just kidding.
That's so cool.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
I haven't seen an alien obviously, but yet.
Speaker 1 (45:44):
Oh my, I don't want to plait a second. But yeah, anyway,
but anyway, if you guys have any case corrections, any
cases you want us to cover any.
Speaker 2 (45:54):
Coffee shops, snacks, sweet shacks, recipes, good news, that's what's
happening in your lives right now.
Speaker 1 (46:03):
Then you can hit us up on Instagram, I'm at
Scream Dot and Dot Sugar Dot podcast on Facebook, Scream
and Sugar, True Crime Coffee Hour on TikTok, Scream Dot
and Dot Sugar, or hit us up on the Gmail
Scream and Sugar Reno at gmail dot com. Oh and
remember you can now also interact with us on both
our Spreaker platform oh yeah, and Spotify and on Spotify.
So chat with us cap scream on Sugar Baby. We
(46:26):
wanna chat. We want to Hello chat, We want to
Hello chat. All right. In the meantime, remember just stay.
Speaker 3 (46:33):
Suky y'all bye, m.
Speaker 1 (47:09):
Don't feel the reason the prescription has more cow bell that.
Speaker 2 (47:12):
Would be footing for this podcast too.
Speaker 1 (47:15):
Seasons. Okay, we're way off target. That's great, It's I'm
gonna have so much fun editing this one.
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