A Travesty in Michigan - Special Guest Paula Kensu

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:55):
It's a search warrant and we're alive. You can listen
to us on cage are kg R a radio. You
can watch us on Rumble, LinkedIn and Facebook, and then
later we'll be on i art spak Speaker and Spotify.
The title of this episode is a Travesty in Michigan

(01:19):
and our special guest is Paula Kenshu and we'll get
to her. We've got UH We're going to try to
cover a couple of different things, UH, politically motivated wrongful prosecutions, UH,
compromised prosecutors, compromised public defenders, a failed governor, we have

(01:40):
several of those. Actually, a progressive attorney general, we have
several of those. By the way, A bad combination and
connections with this case UH that we're going to talk about,
UH to Pennsylvania, which is a Pennsylvania cases which is
really weird. So but they're connected in some fashion. But

(02:05):
I'll tell you who we have right now. So far,
we've got Detective Jake Jacobs from Philadelphia Homicide and the
Officer involved Shooting unit. And we've got or correspondent from Tennessee,
UH veteran NCI especially agent Greg Highlands. And I'm Johnson Needden,
a veteran special agent. So, uh, I take it to

(02:29):
the tsunami hasn't reached you. Jake, you're on the wrong coast, right.

Speaker 2 (02:33):
You can't tell where I'm talking him underwater.

Speaker 1 (02:37):
Craig, you're inland, so you're you're okay.

Speaker 3 (02:39):
Right, I'm pretty far yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 (02:42):
We got a call from our science correspondent, Professor Michael
Mitchell this morning. He wants to tell us about the tsunami. Uh, professor,
how you doing.

Speaker 4 (02:54):
Good morning everybody, Good morning.

Speaker 1 (02:56):
You're joint ads from the Atironics, right.

Speaker 4 (03:00):
Yes, sir, I'm in high ground on purpose, very high
ground ar way.

Speaker 1 (03:05):
Are you from Lake Placid?

Speaker 4 (03:08):
This Saraanhac Lake is maybe fifteen miles, but this whole
region you're elevated two thousand to three thousand feet above sea.

Speaker 1 (03:16):
Level, so it's water come in.

Speaker 4 (03:19):
That's the best thing. If there's a tsunami in the
Atlantic for any reason, you need to head to high
ground and anybody out Peahi, you have nothing to worry about.
I can't say the same for if you're in some
of the other areas that we just heard about, and
the situation from a fault that caused this tsunami has

(03:40):
occurred off of some of the Far East and fringes
of the Russian Empire. I wanted to relate something about
that that if we think back a moment in the
year two thousand and four, we had something similar in origin,
different location, but similar in origin. And basically this sort
of earthquake tsunami combination is an undersea event. It's a

(04:05):
massive event. And it's as if you take square miles
of say, sea floor bed, and would suddenly shove it
up three four five hundred feet into the sea itself.
So basically call that a fault. And it happens along
these tectonic plates in this case. I don't know if
you can see the image I also have here I'm
trying to hold up. Can we capture that at all?

(04:29):
Or I don't know if it's reflecting? Yeah, unfortunately it
shows the plate's teutonic area, all right, Anyway, too much
glare the part I'm trying to make. Those When you
have a sudden uplift of this magnitude, the water has
to go somewhere, right, So the water has to move.
You can't compress it. It's gonna mediate rady out and
take all that energy with it and go in all directions,

(04:51):
in this case across everywhere in the Pacific, So any
land mass in that body of water will be susceptible
to something. So I'd have to mention about two thousand
and four when we had something similar, a massive uplift
under sea uplift. The problem was it was very close
to extremely highly inhabited areas, so it immediately slammed into
the coastlines of Indonesia, Sumatra, parts of Thailand, everything over there,

(05:17):
which are extremely highly populated, densely populated coastlines, fishing villages, towns, resorts.
The death toll was almost a quarter of a million
people drowned because this thing came in so fast and unexpected.
Here in this case, though, we're so far north into
I won't say it's uninhabited, but the nearest land masks

(05:39):
on the edge of Russia there that Kmaksha, however we
pronounced it, that land mass. There's nothing about a little
bit of fishing. Some light industry, and they're quite familiar
with this up there, ready to have their shares of
earthquakes volcanoes in that region of the world, so they
were able to put out early along to get their
people out of that area. I don't seem to be
locating any information of any fatalities. So in one case,

(06:02):
you you have a tsunami scenario similar to what happened
in two thousand and four with is zero fatality versus
almost a quarter of a million. So it's a dramatic.

Speaker 1 (06:12):
Well, if I understand correctly, there are some dead whales, uh.

Speaker 4 (06:19):
And not well, anything possible I don't have. You'd hope
they could swim away, but you never know. I think
what could happen if a large body of what is
coming in you're a well, a sea lion and you're
trapped in more shallow waters, you could shove you up
into the land. You could shove you on land and
you become a beached Well, now you have a problem, yes,

(06:40):
don't Perhaps perhaps something like that's ongoing. Also, if you're
boating out there, which you shouldn't be. You know is
a boat captains and sailing, you should be aware at
all times, keep you updated whether so. I'm sure I'm
sure no one would be out in that crazily, but
you never know, and they can get caught up in
the waves that could flip their boats, throw them into
the showline. All records reading now showing any warnings are off.

(07:03):
Tsunami warnings have been recalled even in Hawaii, of all
places where they've had great experience in this area. Don't
need to mention the town of Hilu, formerly the city
of Hilu, is located on the main island of Hawaii,
the large Island, not a Wahu, not Wakiki Beach or
like Wakiki Beach. I don't think that anything happened, but

(07:25):
the main island, the big Island, Hawaii, has some vulnerable shoreline,
and the reason is it's the way the seafloor is
designed around it, where water has a tendency to pick
up and focus. So in a tsunami comes roaring in,
say in this case to helu Ilo. I believe it
was in nineteen sixty two sixty five somewhere there that
town was little. The city was wiped down, literally, a

(07:48):
lot of people drown, devastation. It just seems to be.
You know, some areas are channeled for water, so Helo
has never really recovered from this still tourist gull but
it's never ever really recovered. Owever, whoever lives there, they
do have emergency warning systems, and in this case for
all of Hawaii, the greater threat of any area was

(08:09):
that it was he a little They were warning he
Love the most, saying you might get several feet of water.
Other than that, I heard nothing for Kawhi Molokai, Wikiki
Beach a little bit. There's just about nothing. So all
the one things have been withdrawn.

Speaker 1 (08:23):
Okay, So but this was a top ten, right.

Speaker 4 (08:28):
They gave it a technically an eight point eight. And
this once again is confusing because there's really two kinds
of scales.

Speaker 2 (08:34):
Now.

Speaker 4 (08:35):
The eight point eight out of ten is massively powerful,
and it's based on the mass and energy released and
when it begins. So how much energy can they measure
was released in the movement of the mass and what
they could equate it to. So this saying if it's
an eight point eight, uh, there's only been several quakes
in history that are bigger than that in power. But

(08:57):
this is the irony. You see once again the other
scale called the Mercalli scale, that will measure say damage
and death. So in this case effer mcali, there might
be zero to one, whereas in two thousand and four
you Mecallay would be a ten. So this is this
is the trade off. But yes, very powerful. It was
a very powerful energy, but with the waves was so
dissipated and hitting in areas thus far that it just

(09:19):
didn't have really any impact.

Speaker 5 (09:21):
Two thousand and four, Professor, that's the one that damaged.

Speaker 4 (09:24):
The California also was spared maybe a foot. Crescent City
was considered to be the most vulnerable area, the northernmost
tip of California, Creston City, I think maybe two feet
three feet max. And a lot of their shorelines were
already way high. The coastline of California is extensive, including
big sur in north of San Francisco, Mendocino County. Going north,

(09:45):
it's a very high elevation land mass, so they may
not even notice it.

Speaker 1 (09:50):
So greg was mentioned in the two thousand and four
one that hit their reactor, right and.

Speaker 4 (09:58):
Yeah, Japan, all right, so once again the reactors were
built right on the water. They are right there. I
haven't heard much about that at this point in that
particular region what's hit in Japan, but that, yes, that's
very true. The Fukushima, the water literally just came over
the walls, salt water went in, started corroding everything caused

(10:19):
them to shut down their reactors, but they couldn't cool
off properly, so you had the heating taking place. The
radio activity has to go somewhere, so it's sort of
melting things, you know. It's so that was that was
a major, major, major problem. It's still being researched exactly
what happened. Yes, you can't have when you have that
amount of water flushing in and coming over natural barricades.

(10:40):
They just didn't, I guess, prepare for something that large.
They weren't. They weren't never expecting it.

Speaker 1 (10:46):
Yeah, oh boy. Yes, at least they had early warning
systems where they could get people, you know.

Speaker 6 (10:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:56):
My concern is, you know when they have the martiall
ships evacuate the ports. Do they just ride it out? Then? Right,
they just ride it out.

Speaker 4 (11:08):
Their best bet is to get out of port and
the further out from the land, they'll just ride over
any disturbance. The problem with tsunamis is if you were literally,
say a ship passing that area in northern Russia, you
might not even notice it. You'll hear it, you'll feel something.
It's when the waves, the tsunami waves build all their
energies they approach land and coastline, and depending on how

(11:31):
the seafloor is designed, the depth of it and how
rapid it rises to the coastline that'll often determine. And
also the shape whether it's entering a horseshoe shaped in
lit or if it's a flat coastline, that'll definitely affect
how that water is going to behave. So we had
the case in the nineteen sixties I believe it was
Alaska called Valdez. The town the town of Valdez both

(11:53):
was completely wiped out. Today there's lots of oil activity
in that area and interestingly have oil tank storage. It
was also the site of the excell on Valdis if
we remember many years ago, the ship that went down
uh Or a village, but that town happens to be
inlet of the long winding valley.

Speaker 7 (12:14):
Through high rock, high valley walk coming in and when
a North coast earthquake similar sunami came roaring in, you
didn't really hear about anyone else, but when it came
into that valley, it had the water had nowhere to
go but up as high as sixty feet smacked the town,
drowning hundreds of people destroying everything in its path.

Speaker 4 (12:34):
So they have really Yeah, well that energy has to dissipate,
it can't go anywhere. It's dislike the beach day. A
big wave comes at you and you either dive under
it or you ride it in. But if you fall
under it, that energy is going to smack you into
the receip onto the ground. What happened to all that?
You're gonna feel all that energy that wave is being released.
It's going to hit you and push you into the

(12:56):
sand bit. So it's a good idea to get out
of the way of you know, waved down smaller than
you at the beach, not a hippot, but one that's
toilet in you coming. Either ride it in or go
under it. The tsunamis, though interestingly, they never appear as
a curling wave, contrary to the movies in Hollywood. They
don't appear like some ninety foot waves just cruising along
and it's coming. There are rogue waves like we saw

(13:18):
in the movie. It was the movie with the Fisherman
Mark Whlberg and Perfect Storm. Oh yeah, every wave in
that was a was a rolling high wave with Dirk
was called rollers And it's possible but tsunami has come
and rolling. It's all the energy is tumbling and the
water just tumbles in waves of it, one on top

(13:38):
of the other, and eventually it starts to smack. And
it's not just once. It continues the energy reverberates and
ricochets as well. So what happened in two thousand and
four is an example of that. And it just leveled everything,
and you could and ground everything and rip boats apart
and houses, and you happen to be in the way,
even within a mile of it. You had a big problem.

(13:59):
So we're very blessed that this as powerful as it is,
we don't have much in the way of fatality and
damage to a report, it's not even close. Very lucky.

Speaker 1 (14:09):
Yeah, that early warning system again, you know that's.

Speaker 4 (14:13):
Yeah, they exist, but sometimes just not. This was what
can we call it, I mean what happened to Japan
and that focusing. I mean this never expected that they
had warning, but that size that fast, not prepared. It
hadn't happened before, not in the modern era.

Speaker 1 (14:29):
Yeah, you can't sit on the beach and just watch
it coming.

Speaker 4 (14:32):
That's not gonna happen. No, we swept out.

Speaker 1 (14:35):
So so we're okay for now right.

Speaker 4 (14:38):
Yeah, only you know, all the potential warnings have concluded.
They call back the people most concerns, such as Hawaiian,
what's a Japan They've recalled Eving's back in all San Francisco.
Even the ferries back online. You know, they did certain
precautions in the area for ferry travel and boats and
so on. Yeah, is wisely done.

Speaker 1 (14:56):
But I think maybe I wonder what's happening in the
the huge it sound. I wonder if that affects, you know.

Speaker 4 (15:03):
In Washington, Baba Seattle area, some water. I'm sure some
water would go in every day. I heard nothing to
really be concerned about it, just it dissipated. The areas
that were most thought likely to be hit barely got anything.
And I think it's just because the size ggantulan size
of the Pacific, it evens out the spread of the energy.

(15:24):
But it does, it's going to hit things. It would
be affected. And like I say, the worst thing is
if this happens a lot close to the highly populated regions,
you got a problem. So Russia was kind of lucky.
It hit the most further distant with the grid areas.

Speaker 1 (15:39):
Yeah, less populated, so so the bottom line, professors were
okay for now, absolutely.

Speaker 8 (15:47):
Absolutely, professor, I mean, you had this eight point eight.
What's the closest next big tsunami after a big tsunami
in history?

Speaker 4 (15:56):
If you know, well, I know there was what was
called crack Atola, which was somewhere over near the island
of javit it I was a volcanic but did create tsunami.
There was one in Chile also, but many many years
ago there were on about three or four of them
if you go by that number. So let's say this
is an eight point eight and ten is a max.
Is there an eleven? You never know, but this is

(16:18):
the scale it came up with many many decades ago. Well,
like I say, the situation is, how do we see
that energy release? How do we know a nine from
a two? How do we know? And the only thing
we have is reports and media, And if it tells
us someone gets killed or doesn't get killed, it tells
us if buildings toppled over in one city or didn't.

(16:39):
And that's how that's how we see it and judge it.
Science has their way of measuring the energy that we's
Jays Jake, we see like what happens. Say San Francisco's
the Marina many years ago, didn't really take eleven. It
brought some things down Mexico City nineteen eighties, I believe
brought down skyscrapers. Earthquakes, Tami, you know, two thousand and

(17:01):
four is the is the record, I think in amount
of damage from a tsunami. I mean, don't forget. We
have hurricanes. We have hurricanes that are capable of taking
out ten twenty thousand people. That's happened in Galveston, Texas, right,
But that was no earthquake. So it really boils down
how it's perceived as the damage it causes. And you

(17:21):
could have in the middle of the Gobi Desert a ten.
You could have an earthquake of a ten. It'll shake
the desert up one hundred miles around, but because you
won't hear anything about it, it might it might swallow
up some wild yact and antelope and the stray village,
but you won't even know about it. And that's the
irony of how they do this measuring system, these numbers.

Speaker 1 (17:39):
Yeah, okay, so, professor, the bottom line is we're okay now,
and you're at a at elevation that has no problems
or whatsoever.

Speaker 4 (17:49):
Right, Yeah, I'm surrounded right near me a mountains that
average three thousand feet and close to the down the
road to go to four thousand feet or Mount Marshatting's
five thousand feet do I don't mean if there was
a m I think usually if you're up several hundred feet,
you have no worry. So this is overkill. But I'm
up here in case there is just and there is
one particular thing they're watching. The geologists heard their geologistic

(18:12):
by the second homes here have a home. And the
reason is, I think there's a great ancient volcanic crater.
I forget the exact name, but it's off the coast
of Africa, North Africa. And they say, if that was
a collapse, which you could, which it could. It's a
massive ancient volcanic crater. It's a great land mass as well.
It remains above the sea. If that were to fall

(18:34):
down into the water, it would create a super tsunami
wave that would race across the Atlantic.

Speaker 1 (18:38):
Shit, and it hit.

Speaker 4 (18:39):
Into the it was hit him to the crust. So
the East coast comes up and then it kind of
makes a turn to New England, like this right so
this way New York City right there, Long Island right here,
and it would hit right into that into that angle
that I'm two sangle right here, and it would pile
up and gain significant height of probably maybe forty fifty
feet I don't know, but you want to be higher up,

(19:01):
especially if for giant meteor hits like in that movie
they show the wave was about six hundred feet high,
so everybody was racing for the mountains. This would be
a place to be, right.

Speaker 1 (19:11):
So get your tents ready, you know, for the next one. Yeah,
I professor, We really appreciate you giving us, h you know,
an understanding of what the hell happen?

Speaker 4 (19:24):
So yeah, any other question, anybody anything?

Speaker 2 (19:28):
Gay?

Speaker 4 (19:30):
No, that's hope. Those whales Okay.

Speaker 2 (19:36):
The producer had a question.

Speaker 8 (19:38):
He said, what about to talk about Canary Island the
landslide create any tsunami towards the east coast in.

Speaker 4 (19:45):
The future, that that could be the name It was
either Canary Islands was something, so I forget the exact
can you hear me?

Speaker 9 (19:51):
Guys?

Speaker 4 (19:52):
Yes, yeah, okay, sorry, That's what I'm trying to relate to.
There's some islands off the coast west coast, that he'd
be up North Africa, be it the Canary are similar,
forget this one in particular, but it's very, very large.
It's an ancient volcanic crater of some kind of above water.
It's a tourist site and everything. But that's the one
I heard about from geologists. The concern if that should
ever subside an app and fall all at once into

(20:15):
the Atlantic. It could. It definitely would create a tsunomi
at race right across towards us here. And the questions
would there be time, So let's say you have, you know,
five hours, just speculating six hours, it's not gonna be
a real evacuation, and there's just no way. They had
images of Honolulu because they received some evacuation order as
well when it hit in the evening, of course, so

(20:37):
even though they rarely got anything in Honolulu, they had
sort of images of traffic like nothing was moving. They're
on one of Honolulu Boulevard with Kiki Boulevard. This caused
from an aerial shot. They look like the road park
right in the middle of the road. They're going nowhere.
So I think Long Island, New York City, Westchester County,
or the Connecticut. Doing through all of that would be
a mess and subject to inundated and a lot of problems, right,

(21:02):
so we can't have that happen, Jake, can't have it happen.

Speaker 1 (21:05):
Yeah, professor, we appreciate your insight to that, and we'll
I look forward to the thank you crisis related you know,
geographic crisis when we can have you on.

Speaker 4 (21:23):
There was one right around the corner, so I know.

Speaker 1 (21:27):
That's horrible, professor, Thank you very much, appreciate it.

Speaker 4 (21:30):
Thank you, gentlemen, thank you.

Speaker 1 (21:32):
Take care by bye, body take care. So our special guest,
we have a special guest coming up, but I wanted
to uh set that up. You know, just recently we've
had very strong women on. We've had Lacey Lanceford, We've

(21:54):
had Jen Finnerty, and we've had Meg and Heaton. What
your the epitome of strong women. But uh, our guest
is also very strong. But I wanted to I'm not
focusing on the on this video. I'm not focusing on
the alleged crime. I'm focusing on the fact that, you know,

(22:19):
you find yourself a very strong female companion. You're in
good shape. So, uh, but the the event described does
not you know, it's only the uh, the relationship, not
the event. If I killed somebody, would you turn me in? Well,

(22:43):
what's wrong? If I killed somebody?

Speaker 9 (22:46):
Would you turn me in?

Speaker 1 (22:51):
Well? What's wrong?

Speaker 6 (22:51):
Let's go for a drive. Okay, what's going on? You
smoke somebody?

Speaker 4 (22:57):
Where's the body? There is nobody?

Speaker 6 (23:00):
Did you take it to the city down for the
storm by the train tracks?

Speaker 2 (23:03):
Neither?

Speaker 8 (23:03):
Oh?

Speaker 6 (23:04):
Please don't tell me you buried the damn sign.

Speaker 4 (23:06):
You didn't kill anybody. And it's very disturbing that you
know where to hide bodies.

Speaker 8 (23:10):
I was just asking a general questions, joking.

Speaker 1 (23:16):
Did I answer your question?

Speaker 2 (23:17):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (23:20):
Okay, you have to find yourself a female companion that's
you know, has your back. And as we've seen before,
we've got we had Lacey Lunz for Jen Vinnerdy and
h Megan Heaton that but of that same vein. Our
our special guest, Paula Canzu is of that.

Speaker 2 (23:46):
Vein.

Speaker 1 (23:47):
So paul can Bill? Can you bring Paula up? Paula?
How you doing? Nice to see you? Can you on
mute yoursel? There you go, listen. This is ah a
travesty in Michigan for a variety of different reasons. But
I want to kind of set this up with a

(24:07):
couple videos that kind of bring you up to date
as to what is going on. So if you'll bear
with us, you'll understand what's happening.

Speaker 10 (24:20):
This is the true story of a guy who was
sentenced to life in prison for a murder that happened
four hundred miles away.

Speaker 1 (24:25):
The boy son, I'm not a man, Jeryman, I not
a killed.

Speaker 10 (24:27):
In nineteen eighty six, a twenty year old named Scott
Macklum was shot and killed in a college parking lot
in part here on Michigan. No one was around to
witness the shooting, and there was no evidence at the scene.
The only suspect was Frederick Freeman. Now this is where
it gets weird. There were at least nine people who
placed then twenty three year old Freeman a whopping four
hundred miles away at the time of the murder.

Speaker 11 (24:45):
I think from the very beginning they said, listen, we've
got nothing in the sky. We need to frame in.
How are we going to do this? And I think
this laid out a plot.

Speaker 10 (24:52):
So how did prosecutors claim Freeman committed the crimes? They
said he chartered a jet across the State of Michigan
murdered Scott Macklam, then took the plane back with nobody.
To make things worse, they painted Freeman as a martial
arts maniac and womanizer who turned dangerous.

Speaker 11 (25:05):
I'm a twenty three year old punk kid living in
a farmhouse at Michigan's Upper Peninsula with a girlfriend on welfare,
and this guy is trying to tie me to the
Keldyan drug Roanni Fascia. I mean it was insane.

Speaker 10 (25:15):
Prosecutors offered testimony from a bribe, jail house informant, and
even from a hypnotized witness. Mind you, Multiple states have
outlawed this practice.

Speaker 12 (25:23):
The timeline doesn't really fit because he was seen in
the Upper Peninsula. I think it was eleven thirty in
the karate studio in Escanaba by multiple people.

Speaker 11 (25:34):
This was an actual conspiracy to frame somebody for murder.

Speaker 10 (25:37):
Freeman, who now goes by Temogen Kensu, has been imprisoned
in Michigan for more than thirty five years, fighting each
day for his freedom.

Speaker 12 (25:43):
Over the years, Tamilgon has seen more and more taken
from them.

Speaker 6 (25:48):
He's had so much stolen from them in his life.

Speaker 10 (25:51):
His legal team sent his case to Michigan's Attorney General
for the Conviction Integrity Unit to review his case was
declined due to a lack of evidence proving his innocence.

Speaker 11 (25:58):
I always try to tell people, you need to understand
how bad our appellate system is. Every single innocent person
lost his appeals. Before he went home.

Speaker 10 (26:07):
Kenser does have a large group of supporters standing behind him,
with one being Herbert Welser, a former detective in the
police department that arrested kenshim.

Speaker 1 (26:14):
There's just so much you're involved in the things wrong.

Speaker 10 (26:18):
Since retiring, Welser has been working pro bono is Kenser's
private investigator and has even uncovered new evidence in his case.
So where are we now, Well, Kenser's team has now
filed a clemency application with Michigan's Governor, Gretchen Witmer.

Speaker 1 (26:30):
And now we wait, boy, makes you want to know more?
Right here, let's look at this.

Speaker 6 (26:38):
I never knew it was going to be this frustrating.

Speaker 12 (26:41):
I really thought that because I'm so tenacious and vocal,
and I like it was such an obvious case. I mean,
I really thought that he was going to be home
soon soon, meaning with a year or two of us

(27:01):
being there, Like I did not think it was going
to take this long. I mean, I would do it
all over again in a heartbeat. I love my husband.
He's totally worth it. He's worth the fight, and he's
an incredible person, and I can't wait to just have
him home. I would do it all over again. But
I didn't know it was going to be this hard.

(27:23):
I did not know it was going to be this hard.

Speaker 1 (27:28):
So hang on, we want to know more.

Speaker 12 (27:33):
Prison is a business, and they do everything. Prison is
a business, and they do everything that they can to
try and interfere with the relationships. I mean from visiting,
you know, being harassed by officers being you know, our

(27:54):
video visits being cut off all of a sudden or
you know terminated, or just the petty games, you know,
and it's really really frustrating.

Speaker 6 (28:04):
In addition to that, they have vendors that are just
just horrible vendors.

Speaker 12 (28:11):
They have the you know, the phone calls, you know,
you press zero to receive the call and it just
hangs up.

Speaker 4 (28:19):
You know.

Speaker 12 (28:19):
We try and communicate the best that we can, but
it's always impeded by these outside things that are completely
out of our control. And it really it impacts him severely.
And especially because he lost his wife of twenty two
years behind prison walls. So he worries about me. And
I mean, I could be on my way to the prison.

(28:39):
He'll call, he knows that I'm coming for a visit,
and then you know, I'll get there, and you know,
the people checking you in for the visit will just
play games and not let you in because of for
whatever manufactured reason they come up with.

Speaker 1 (28:57):
Boy, And that's not the first time I've heard that.
So but let's put an excelamation point on this before
we start.

Speaker 9 (29:04):
Shit's Getting Weird, Part infinity.

Speaker 13 (29:07):
So today we're going to talk about Timogen Kinsu, formerly
known as Frederick Freeman. So the story starts back in
nineteen eighty six, there was a young man named Scott
Macklum who was murdered in the parking lot of a
community college. Within a very short amount of time, Temigen
Kinsu was accused of his murder. Now, from the beginning,
this whole case reaked of corruption. Even though he was
being accused of this murder, nine witnesses came out and

(29:27):
stated that he couldn't have done it, including his ex
fiancee who stated that he was with her at the
time of the murders four hundred miles away, but that
didn't stop Michigan prosecutors from pushing to convict mister Kensu.
And these are some of the reasons why number one
prosecutors pointed the finger at mister Kensu because of the
ties of his ex lover dating the man that was murdered.

Speaker 2 (29:45):
But I reiterate again.

Speaker 13 (29:48):
Mister Kensu was four hundred miles away with a locktight alibi.
There was no way, as they proved in court, that
he would have been able to drive six hours down
from where he was commit the crime and drive six
hours back.

Speaker 9 (29:57):
It wouldn't have worked.

Speaker 13 (29:59):
When that was shot down, prosecutors came up with a
bogus fictional theory stating that mister Kensu, who had no money,
took a private charter plane down to where the crime
was committed, committed the crime, got back on the charter plane,
went back up to where he was, got off the plane,
took a car, went back to his ex fiancee's house
to make it back in time to have his alibi.
But that still didn't even work, and on top of that,

(30:20):
there was zero evidence of that. Prosecutors also painted mister
Kensu as a bad person because he was from Flint, Michigan,
and was into martial arts and had swords and nunchucks.
This was all pre Ninja Turtle time in nineteen eighty six.
Those things were in common, so they tried to paint
him as a bad person for being involved in martial arts.
And besides, the murder was committed with a shotgun, So

(30:41):
unless mister Kensu committed the murder with a Toori hansoswar
from kill Bill, none of that should have been admissible
in the court. But because mister Kensu's defense attorney get
the time of straight cow dung, he never objected to
those accusations. On top of that, never called key witnesses
to the stand that would help his case. On top
of that, come to find out, his defense attorney had
a rut problem. He was convicted solely on something called

(31:03):
other acts evidence. There was no motive, there was no evidence,
there was nothing. The prosecutors convicted solely on storytelling. Mister
Kensu has been in prison now for thirty plus years
for a crime he did not commit and.

Speaker 9 (31:16):
Maintains his innocence.

Speaker 13 (31:17):
Now, in twenty ten, a judge overturned the conviction stating
prosecution misconduct. For example, on the documents had stated that
the prosecution used a perjured witness, even though that that
witness came out and said that he lied on the stand.
But even though the conviction was overturned, it was later
on reverse because of a scheduling technicality.

Speaker 9 (31:39):
This whole case is crazy.

Speaker 13 (31:40):
But what we can do to help mister Timogen Kensu
is contact Gretchen Whitmer, who's the Michigan governor, to look
into this case and do the right thing and free
this innocent man. Here's all the contact info for her office.
If we can blow her up, I think it'll help
this situation very much.

Speaker 9 (31:54):
Stay walk.

Speaker 2 (31:56):
Gretchen Whitmer led him free so he could be with
his family.

Speaker 9 (31:59):
That this innocent man Freeland, free and free.

Speaker 1 (32:05):
Yeah, Grutchen Whitmer kidnap victim. Right. So let's uh identify
the players here. We got a lot of questions, so,
but let's identify some of the players in this before
we get going. One of them is Robert Cleveland. Why

(32:28):
does that last name sound familiar because there's a significant
case in Pennsylvania where a judge his last name is Cleveland.
He's same pretty much. It's the same thing. Robert Cleveland
is original trial prosecutor who went to went on to
become a federal judge, put his own friend and personal

(32:52):
pilot on the stand. Personal friend, own friend and personal
pilot on stand to swear the jury that Tummagen could
have chartered a private airplane to fly over four hundred
and fifty miles to commit this murder and be back

(33:13):
in as Scanbia, Michigan, to be seen by his nearly
a dozen witnesses. And that's a line in a report
by the private investigator Apaula. Is that the private investigator
that we saw in the first video.

Speaker 6 (33:32):
It is Herbert Welser.

Speaker 1 (33:33):
Yes, okay, And then check this out. It gets worse.
David Dean, who's now deceased at Temisen's original court appointed
trial attorney who was disbarred from practicing law due to
drug abuse. Jake, We've seen that, haven't we, And I'm

(33:59):
sure has too. He had just completed probation in March
of nineteen eighty six for a cocaine conviction in Ohio.
Kensu's troll was in April or May of nineteen eighty seven. David, Okay,
and we'll show a timeline. A twenty ten Habeas Corpus

(34:25):
opinion by Honorable Judge Denise paige Hood cited prostratorial misconduct.
So I mean he was he completed the defense attorney,
completed probation in March of nineteen eighty six, and then
represented a KENSU in April or May of nineteen eighty seven. Insane. Okay,

(34:56):
how about another player. How about Gretchen Whitner, Michigan's current
a governor, who incidentally has been in the company of
Josh Shapiro, the Pennsylvania governor. Corrupt Pennsylvania governor repeatedly peace
in a pod. Michigan's current governor has had Temigen's clemency

(35:21):
application on her desk since May of twenty twenty, denied
his clemency application twice, has until end of her term
twenty twenty seven to respond, and obviously they're seeking a
full exoneration pardon. Oh and then to add to the disaster.

(35:49):
To add to the disaster, there's Dana Nessel. She's a
Democrat and she's a Michigan's current attorney general. Kind of
reminds you of Raoul torra Is, the new Mexico Zero's
installed attorney General in New Mexico. Uh, Dana Nessel, Michigan's

(36:14):
current attorney general is she's a liberal married to Lynn
Elena and created a conviction integrity unit and said that
nobody should serve time uh for a crime they didn't commit. Really,

(36:35):
And then we've got Michael Wendling. Am I saying that right? Paul? Yes,
he's the current Saint Claric County prosecutor, former president of
the Prosecuting Attorney's Association of Michigan, and current board member
of the National District Attorneys Association. And we'll show the

(36:55):
photos then, just so you know what we're who, we're
talking about them, we'll identify them. But he and his
mistress now wife, Uh oh, that's a right, Okay. So
he's flipping the bird. So I have a we have

(37:16):
a photograph of that, which are that He continuously defend
uh this conviction by saying that this case has been
reviewed by many courts and they all uphold the original conviction.
Mike Wellde Wendling is also quoted in an article that

(37:39):
will show You saying he doesn't.

Speaker 14 (37:41):
Believe a man who spent time in prison on a
false rape charge deserves an apology for more enforcement. Wow, okay,
so and Michael West.

Speaker 4 (37:56):
Right.

Speaker 1 (37:57):
Michael West, he's the current chief judge in Saint Clair
County who denied against whose abeus denying relief on November
tenth of twenty fourteen, mainly on procedural grounds. Where have
we seen that before? Right, guys, on procedural grounds. Let's

(38:19):
see here, and noted that relief was not warranted under
Brady Strickland or a freestanding actual innocence claim. Judge West's
best friend and campaign manager, Mark Olson was accused and

(38:39):
convicted and in a twist of irony, is currently in
prison with Paula's husband at the same prison. Of twenty
seven accounts of criminal sexual assault against young girls who
he was drugging and raving. Yeah wow, there are police

(39:04):
reports naming Michael West and victim police reports against and
where These young girls were on Judge West's sailboat, on
the sailboat, on the judge's sailboat with Olson at the
same time they were raped and encouraged to go topless.

(39:24):
Mike West also jokes about taking painkillers to drowned out sorrows.

Speaker 6 (39:30):
On his Facebook page. Yeah there's a picture of that.

Speaker 1 (39:33):
Oh my god. Man so let's paint a picture of
these people. Okay, so you can. I think these are
semi in order. Okay, so not really, but here okay, okay.

(40:00):
This is yourself and telling Jen right.

Speaker 6 (40:03):
That is correct, that was on a visit. That's our
fighting pose.

Speaker 1 (40:09):
Yeah okay. And this is uh, the just honorable Governor
Gretchen Widmer.

Speaker 6 (40:17):
Right, that would be her, yes, yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:20):
Okay, And this is her again.

Speaker 6 (40:24):
It is her again kind of went down in Detroit.

Speaker 1 (40:28):
Oh great, okay, and these are you guys.

Speaker 12 (40:33):
This is you in their wedding photo. Yes, a couple
of wedding photos. And we were married in the prison.

Speaker 1 (40:42):
Okay. And then okay, so oh so this one.

Speaker 12 (40:51):
This is Prosecutor Michael Wendling and his now wife is
his mistress at the time the photo was taken.

Speaker 1 (40:59):
What's your name again?

Speaker 12 (41:00):
I'm sorry, Michael Wendling. He is the Saint Clair County prosecutor.
He's the current prosecutor.

Speaker 1 (41:06):
Okay, and this is you two. And then we've got
do we who is this?

Speaker 12 (41:13):
So we have Bill Practor, who is a Channel seven
news reporter from back in the day. He was originally
covering this case in a five part series called The
Ninja murder right Channel seven I think is Eyewitness News
in Detroit. And then next to him is Khalia Ali,

(41:34):
who is Mohammed Ali's daughter. One of them, wow, along
with my husband and the short girl there on the corner.
Cut off a little bit as Maggie Freeling, who did
a podcast called Unjustin Unsolved covering the case. She works
now with Jason Flome of the Innocence Project, the Rofel

(41:55):
Conviction Podcast.

Speaker 1 (41:57):
Okay, and then we've got you and Temigen and then
can you tell us more about this person?

Speaker 12 (42:10):
So that would be Dana Nessel. She is the current
Attorney General of Michigan. She created a conviction Integrity Unit
in twenty nineteen and since that time, since the creation
of that unit, they have released a total of five
individuals exonerated five individuals. I was doing some research here

(42:31):
right before the call, and most of these cius exonerate
around thirty people a year, and she's released only five
people in five years.

Speaker 3 (42:41):
So, oh boy, he is raceful. She's not.

Speaker 12 (42:46):
That unit is not functioning effectively at all, and they're
either not happy with the number of lawsuits that are
coming out after these exonerations, and the prosecutors are pushing back,
or cities and are pushing back due to high litigation costs,
or she just never planned on really exonerating anybody to

(43:06):
begin with. They've accepted over one million, two hundred and
fifty thousand dollars in federal funds for these conviction integrity units.

Speaker 1 (43:15):
How much is that? How much do you say? Oh?

Speaker 12 (43:18):
It was just over one million, two hundred and fifty
thousand in wow.

Speaker 1 (43:23):
Wow. Okay, So uh let's see. Okay, So Dana Nessel,
the Attorney General, jokingly calls for drag Queen for every school.
Oh my god. That gives you an idea of what's
what's happening there? Okay, So this, uh, it kind of

(43:47):
gives you a geographical idea of what the hell they're alleging, right, right.

Speaker 12 (43:53):
And I have to say that we did open with
a perfect first person on this podcast, since we kind of.

Speaker 6 (43:59):
Delved in another perfect storm.

Speaker 1 (44:01):
Right.

Speaker 6 (44:03):
So we've got here just as.

Speaker 12 (44:05):
The map, the timeline and the kind of where Temiogen,
my husband was up in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan
during you know, the commission of this crime.

Speaker 6 (44:17):
He had moved there months before.

Speaker 12 (44:20):
The crime and the murder occurred down in the Lower
Peninsula down in the Thumb area of by Port in
Port here on Michigan. So it was over you know,
four hundred miles away. When you look at the time
there that it took to drive.

Speaker 3 (44:37):
That's good looking.

Speaker 1 (44:39):
Yet, oh my god.

Speaker 12 (44:41):
Of nineteen eighty six, you know, fifty five miles an
hour snowy conditions, this was in November. It was just
it was impossible to make the timeline work. So the
prosecutor had to come up with an alternate theory, and
he came up with, you know, chartering an airplane.

Speaker 1 (45:02):
Oh my god, so was he in a position to
charter an airplane?

Speaker 6 (45:10):
No?

Speaker 12 (45:10):
So again, this is nineteen eighty six when this happened.
My husband was twenty three years old and he served,
you know, thirty eight plus years in prison for this crime.
And there was zero forensic, zero physical evidence tying my
husband to this crime. There was a shotgun shell found
in the parking lot, however, there and there was a

(45:34):
fingerprint on that shotgun shell box. However it did not
match my husband's. So no physical, no forensic evidence tying
my husband, and there were no witnesses to the crime.
No shotgun was ever found. They did come out with
a hypnotized witness.

Speaker 3 (45:53):
Yeah, it's the craziest.

Speaker 12 (45:54):
Like I said, it's a perfect It was a perfect
storm for my husband. Everything that could have went wrong
went wrong. Was you know, a jailhouse snitch who supposedly,
you know, he was placed in the holding cell with
my husband in jail. He later recanted with Bill Procter

(46:16):
on one of those Channel seven news reports on camera.
He recanted and said that never happened. He never admitted
that he killed somebody. He received that man actually received
favors for in exchange for his testimony. Instead of going
back to Jackson prison, he was released. We have the
handwritten note saying that there was a strong recommendation from

(46:39):
the prosecutor and the judge to release him into community placement,
which later the records later confirmed that that's what happened.

Speaker 1 (46:50):
Okay, So let's go back to David Dean. Sure cocaine
fueled a point defense attorney? Oh my god? So this
let's see oh m.

Speaker 12 (47:11):
Okay, So that would be the State Bar of Michigan's
records showing that he was stranded suspended.

Speaker 1 (47:22):
Okay, and then do we have a bill We have
an article, don't we Yeah, cocaine. Can we make that bigger? Please?
Is there some way to make it bigger? We're getting there,

(47:43):
stolen a high test addiction put out. Okay, ex deputy
prosecutors suspended for cocaine. Jeezuz, why did he come back?
Why was he even able to come back?

Speaker 3 (48:00):
I guess I mean.

Speaker 8 (48:03):
It.

Speaker 3 (48:04):
You know.

Speaker 12 (48:04):
There was a later article saying that the port here
on police and community.

Speaker 6 (48:09):
They had a.

Speaker 12 (48:10):
Responsibility and they failed in allowing David Dean to represent.

Speaker 6 (48:16):
Cases such as this.

Speaker 1 (48:17):
You're seeming to be a lot of problems with this, right, guys,
what do you think?

Speaker 3 (48:24):
Definitely?

Speaker 1 (48:25):
How about this thing? The alibi was too air tight? Yeah, wow,
my god, oh my god. They got the wrong man.
As he walked out, Okay, Freeman, I first smiled when
Jerry Foreman Ernest Sands read the guilty verdict at three pm,

(48:50):
you sugus had and said no, no, Freeman was a
uh Temagen was handcuffed and led from the court room
by eight officers and formed a s around him. They
got the wrong man, he said, as he walked out
into the hallway. I'll beat it on an appeal. Just wait,
I'll beat it. Some of the evidence they used they

(49:12):
won't be able to use the next time. Dean said
he was surprised by the verdict. Well appeal a decision.
Dean said, there are some constitutional questions here. I don't
know how the jury figured it figured he did it,
if indeed he did do it. I thought the alibi

(49:33):
defense was solid. The jury didn't. Prosecutor Cleland again a
familiar name, said it was a difficult case for Emily
because they had to come up with shit. No, because
there was little physical evidence, such as a murder weapon
or fingerprints. Freeman said, did they, Paula? Did they have

(49:58):
a witness there that kind of witness the.

Speaker 12 (50:00):
So there were no witnesses to the actual crime itself.
There were some students in the parking lot during the
time that heard the shot. They thought that it was
a car backfiring.

Speaker 6 (50:11):
There was one.

Speaker 12 (50:12):
Student who was standing with a couple other students there
and they saw a car back out of the parking
space and drive out at a reasonable rate of speed.
The supposed witness of that car driving by Gobian said
that he wrote down a license plate number, but he

(50:36):
never wrote down a license plate number. He was later
hypnotized by one of the teachers at the college, and
during trial he gave like twelve wildly varying license plate combinations,
none of which those combinations apver tied to my husband
or to a car.

Speaker 1 (50:58):
Oh my god. So it smacks of repressed, alleged repressed memories, right, right,
I mean from other cases that we've looked at, questionable
or repressed memories allegedly brought up by you know, brought

(51:20):
back supposedly by hypnosis. Right. Freeman temmu Chin said he
was in scan Bey about Okay Escanaba the day Macklin
was killed. He told police he had an alibi when
he was arrested on November thirteenth. But Gobin, the guy

(51:42):
that you talked about, and two other witnesses placed Freeman
near the college the morning Macklin was killed. The jury
took its time, and I'm sure they were as impressed
as I was with the eyewitness testimony we had. Cleveland
said this was a difficult case, made more difficult by
alibi witnesses. It was extra hard for the jurors. I'm

(52:05):
happy they listened to the conflicting testimony, but it all
pointed to a Freeman allegedly, Even their best alibi witness
couldn't establish an alibi for him. James Larson, forty seven,
of Croswell, a friend of the Macklums, sat through the
entire trial. I didn't know what the jury would do.

(52:27):
I believed Freeman was guilty. I heard everything Cleveland and
Dean said in their final arguments to the jury. Mister
Cleveland certainly convinced MEBE had a reasonable doubt that Freeman
killed him. His alibi was too air tight. Larson believes

(52:48):
it was more than the witnesses testimony that convicted Freeman.
He says his arrogance and cockiness did it too. The
juris saw right through him.

Speaker 12 (52:58):
Supposedly, Well, when you're innocent, I think you and you're
twenty four years old, and you believe in the system,
you're gonna have an air about you. You're gonna think, gosh,
you know they're gonna have to see through this. I've
got all these witnesses. I mean I would I would
be a little bit confident, you know.

Speaker 1 (53:17):
Right exactly, Okay, So yeah, I mean the whole thing
is appalling from the beginning to the end. You've got
an significant alibi, You've got a defense attorney that's a coke.

Speaker 8 (53:33):
D well the process. You don't supposed to prove your
innocence in this country. It's my job to develop evidence
so that the prosecute to can present it to convince
them beyond reasonable doubt that you're guilty. So it's not
the other way around. Like that article said, off it

(53:54):
alibi is too air tight. It's not my job to
come up with that alibi. Now, if I'm inside a
hotel room somewhere and I tell the police I'm sitting
inside the hotel room, that's one thing I don't have
to prove. It's my job to prove that you was
not sitting inside that hotel room. You were out doing
something that you had no business doing. So there's too

(54:17):
many holes in this thing. As far as whether he's
twenty three and before a charted plane or not. Was
there a charted plane back and forth to establish your
story for anyone?

Speaker 1 (54:31):
What about that.

Speaker 2 (54:33):
For anyone? You know what I mean?

Speaker 8 (54:36):
If you wrote the license plate number down, where's okay?
Police came to the murgenccene soon after you're a witness
on the scene. Hey, I wrote this license number down, off,
so where's that paper?

Speaker 1 (54:47):
Ack?

Speaker 8 (54:48):
I should have to be hypnotized to you to figure
out what number I wrote down. Third, did you describe
the vehicle? Was it like Freeman's vehicle at the time.
So there's too many questions, and I'll tell you right now,
and I'm against full disclosed. I'm not too enthralled with

(55:11):
these conviction tegrity units, especially the way it's going now.

Speaker 2 (55:15):
If you got an innocent man in jail, I don't
have a problem with that.

Speaker 8 (55:18):
I never tried to put on another investigation to put
an innocent man in jail. So I don't worry about
my convictions. I believe that people who I said did
it did it. And a lot of these conviction tegrity
units is out there now are fraudulent, especially with people
like your Dana Nessel.

Speaker 2 (55:35):
She can release the other people, but she can't those
just a few questions.

Speaker 8 (55:39):
I mean, I got a hundred more, because that's what
I would do. I would ask one hundred questions and
then this to one hundred answers. But those questions right
there wasn't asking answer in my opinion, not a trial
and definitely not by the investigators.

Speaker 1 (55:53):
Okay, so we've got to go to break. But I'm
very interested in who who finance Dana Nestles many things
I'm interested, but I'm also interested in who financed Dana
Nestles campaign to become district attorney. Right, So anyway, so

(56:18):
we got to take a break, but we'll be right
back and we'll delve into this more. I mean, this
cast of characters is unbelievable. Hey, let me reintroduce you,
you too, who we have. We've got the detective Jake
Jacobs from Philadelphia homicide announcer involved shooting Unit. We've got
our correspondent from Tennessee, veteran n ci A special Agent,

(56:40):
Greg Islands. We've got our special guest Paula Kens who
joining us from Michigan. And I'm John Stedden, a veteran
NCIS Special Religion. So excuse my French. But what the
fuck I mean? This this thing is the cast of
are on its own. It leaves a lot to be desired.

Speaker 2 (57:04):
Well, John, one more.

Speaker 8 (57:05):
Thing, or if I may you know that other I'm
confused with this other acts evidence as the gentleman talked about.
I mean, when I'm and honestly I could know a
guy is be two murders, did twelve robberies.

Speaker 2 (57:21):
If I'm on to stand if I even give the
jury a.

Speaker 8 (57:24):
Hint that this guy did something in the past and
he's on trial for murder.

Speaker 2 (57:30):
Then they turned into the judge.

Speaker 8 (57:31):
The defense attorney's turning to the judge and saying he
wants a mistrial because the detective knows how to testify,
and he said that by client was a bank robbing murderer,
that it had nothing to do with this particular murder.
So I don't know if they do it in the
federal realm, but I know in Pennsylvania where I testify
that I'm not allowed to call John Sntton a murderer

(57:55):
for the murder that I'm not that he's not on
trial for. So I don't know what that other acts
evidence was. What, Greg, have you ever heard of that?
I mean, have you no?

Speaker 1 (58:10):
Oh my god, man, I mean you know.

Speaker 4 (58:13):
Ah.

Speaker 12 (58:15):
So federal judge not one that we've talked about here,
but his name was Shapiro, who mentioned in one of
the appeals that it was the twenty ten federal habeas
appeal that my husband actually won that was taken back
in reverse the original the original habeas so that he

(58:37):
should be given a new trial or released from prison.
That judge did write a a oh gosh, i'm the
words escaping me. But he wrote something stating that basically
that other acts evidence should have never been allowed, and
it was basically just.

Speaker 6 (58:57):
People beating up on him. It was the.

Speaker 12 (59:01):
Victim's fiance, who my husband had previously dated, who was
just you know, saying that he was a dangerous ninja
and he had you know, poisoned darts in his shoes,
and he could jump out of trees and all of
these different then he raped me and all of these
you know, allegations that she didn't provide any any proof of,
and it had nothing to do with the actual murder.

Speaker 1 (59:24):
Okay, so let's try to connect a couple of dots
here that.

Speaker 8 (59:28):
Alone would have gave what have presented a mistrial and
the fact that you had a drug using Now, listen,
I've been around them all the time.

Speaker 2 (59:36):
I've been around.

Speaker 8 (59:38):
Lawyers, defense lawyers going in who's representing drug dealers that
the drug deal just paid them all and they went
in the bathroom, the snare the Koch before the guard up.

Speaker 2 (59:45):
You haven't.

Speaker 8 (59:46):
I mean, I don't want anybody to think this this
newly white two sides of the table when you're dealing
with prosecutions.

Speaker 2 (59:53):
But the fact that your lawyer just got.

Speaker 8 (59:56):
Off of.

Speaker 12 (01:00:00):
He actually owned and lived in a murder trial a
couple of months later.

Speaker 8 (01:00:06):
Yeah, with the I mean, it's just I wonder in
the back of my mind, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:12):
What reason.

Speaker 8 (01:00:13):
I mean, I know Flint, Michigan had a water problem,
you know, but I'm not sure.

Speaker 2 (01:00:18):
If it was like next to or something in water.
Why did they.

Speaker 12 (01:00:21):
Target They had nobody else. So it was an ambitious prosecutor.
He had to solve this case. And the reason was
part of the reason was that he had just lost
run for the Attorney General of Michigan, Robert Clean.

Speaker 1 (01:00:38):
Wait a minute, plus plus the fact that the victim
is a sign of a mayor.

Speaker 12 (01:00:47):
Of a small town. He was the son of the
mayor of Coswell, Michigan. So there was enormous pressure to
find somebody and to close out this case.

Speaker 6 (01:00:56):
Uh.

Speaker 12 (01:00:56):
And since you know, the prosecutor had just lost that
attorney general race, he felt a lot of pressure to
find somebody. And there were no other They didn't do
any investigation. There were other suspects that they didn't look
into them.

Speaker 8 (01:01:12):
Unfortunately, like I said, I'm not a conviction integrity Unit person.
But this should have never made it to the conviction
integrity unit because what you have is you have the
son of a former mayor who's dating the defendant's ex
girlfriend and they used it. They used prior bad acts
to get a conviction that the federal judge said should

(01:01:36):
have never been used in the first place, which shouldn't
even man it to the federal judge. It should have
been the Michigan you know, the Michigan and Pitals Court
should have said it, or the Michigan Supremes. It should
have made it to the level, but it did. So
that's one need to bridge. And your husband. You answered
my question of heis been in jail for thirty eight
years and you've been married twenty two You already answered

(01:01:57):
with the with the wedding.

Speaker 12 (01:01:59):
Well i've actually I was only married with him for
five years.

Speaker 6 (01:02:05):
Well it's going to be five years this year.

Speaker 12 (01:02:06):
But he he was married previous to that to a
woman named Amico for twenty two years and she passed
while he was incarcerated.

Speaker 6 (01:02:14):
Because he's been in thirty eight years. Wow, so he
lost her.

Speaker 12 (01:02:18):
She was an incredible advocate and fought for you know,
decades and he lost her to ovarian cancer.

Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
So yeah, well an incredible advocate. Bill. Do we have
the the link tree that I sent you earlier? Can
you bring that up please? Web You have you reached
out to that lady?

Speaker 8 (01:02:47):
What's the nady who Trump let out of jail.

Speaker 3 (01:02:50):
Alice Johnson?

Speaker 12 (01:02:52):
Yes, So the issue with reaching out to her or
you know, this is a state case, it's not it's
not a federal case.

Speaker 6 (01:03:01):
He's you know, even the DOJ.

Speaker 12 (01:03:05):
Technically wouldn't have Trump wouldn't have ability to free my husband.

Speaker 6 (01:03:12):
It has to go to the governor of Michigan.

Speaker 3 (01:03:14):
Unfortunately, Well, it's not a part and there's.

Speaker 8 (01:03:18):
Meetings that can be had with the state. We know
Gretchen Whitmer was at the White House with her face covered.
We showed the photo. Yeah, well he could have spoke
to it in and she could have did something as
the governor of Michigan.

Speaker 1 (01:03:30):
Well, yeah, Paula, Now you have had communication right with
the father of Gretchen Winmer, right, haven't you I have?

Speaker 4 (01:03:44):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (01:03:44):
What has he said?

Speaker 3 (01:03:46):
So?

Speaker 12 (01:03:46):
First off, he does believe in my husband's innocence. I
reached out to him early on when I first learned
about this case, and I just remember thinking, you know,
what is going on with our governor? Who is advising her?
You know, why is she not doing something here? And
I thought, you know, who are her parents? And I
looked into it. Her mom was had passed away. And

(01:04:07):
I wrote a letter to her father, not expecting any response,
and he did call me back a couple of days later,
and he spoke with Carl Levin, who was a senator
here in Michigan who.

Speaker 6 (01:04:20):
Fought for my husband.

Speaker 12 (01:04:21):
And he also spoke with or knew Thomas Brennan, who
was a former Michigan Supreme Court justice, who is also
on one of the videos. It's a link in the
link tree here, the Justice Incarcerated video, and that justice said,
you know, if this case would have come across my desk,
I wish I would have had the guts to throw

(01:04:42):
the whole damn thing out. There's no evidence here. He
read every page of the trial transcript.

Speaker 1 (01:04:48):
It's a mind numbing did it?

Speaker 3 (01:04:51):
Yeah, that's happening.

Speaker 6 (01:04:53):
Yeah, I mean he won.

Speaker 12 (01:04:54):
In what's mind boggling is he's one two federal habeas
appeals vote. One her photographs that were different than were
provided to during trial.

Speaker 6 (01:05:07):
There was actually on my LinkedIn. There's a report.

Speaker 12 (01:05:11):
By an eyewitness expert, Jennifer Desert who, interestingly enough, the
CiU accepted her advice on a different case and helped
overturn a conviction. But in my husband's case who she
also said, this is one of the worst eyewitness identifications
that I've ever seen. Yes, they didn't take her advice,

(01:05:33):
you know in our case.

Speaker 1 (01:05:36):
Uh okay, shure a. Paul up. First of all, I mean,
I'm sure people's interest is peaked. How do they.

Speaker 2 (01:05:47):
J I didn't realize there was any witness. Maybe I'm
missing something.

Speaker 12 (01:05:51):
It was supposedly the guy was hypnotized.

Speaker 8 (01:05:55):
Oh, the hypnotized guy. We didn't have what the police
department got there. We didn't know what the car looked like.
They drove away, but he was able to make out.

Speaker 5 (01:06:03):
Okay, yeah, Jesus God, Paul, I have a question. So
the the Attorney General uh Dana and Nessel. She created
the CiU, the Conviction Integrity Unit, and they did an
assessment on comudgeon. Thank you, But that that report was suppressed.

(01:06:26):
It actually was never released anybody.

Speaker 4 (01:06:29):
It is correct.

Speaker 6 (01:06:30):
That is correct.

Speaker 12 (01:06:31):
And that's another very problematic thing is that they in
some of these videos. They're saying that you know that
that the case was closed. What happened was they investigated,
they did come to the conclusion that my husband was
absolutely innocent. A recommendation was written, they took it to

(01:06:52):
the prosecutor, the prosecutor didn't want to admit any wrongdoing,
and they're now acting like that report was never written.
There not releasing it. We've actually went to Proving Innocence,
a nonprofit organization here in Michigan, tried suing Dana Ussel
for the report and she claimed, you know, privilege and

(01:07:13):
you know, you know, didn't want to release release the report.
But it absolutely exists. If I mean they wrote a report,
they didn't write a report saying he was guilty.

Speaker 3 (01:07:26):
So yeah, I mean, what about.

Speaker 5 (01:07:31):
Other cases that the CiU UH looked at that have
they been released or is this a special case that
they didn't release the specific one?

Speaker 12 (01:07:42):
As far as we know, I mean, there were seventeen
hundred cases originally submitted to the Conviction Integrity Unit. A
lot of them were you know, dismissed or not considered
for various reasons. We don't know really the the whole
rundown of what they what they determined there. But as
far as we know, this is the worst case of

(01:08:03):
actual obvious innocence that it went through the whole CiU
and was denied.

Speaker 1 (01:08:10):
They I mean, did they give you a definitive reason
why I was denied.

Speaker 12 (01:08:16):
So what they wrote was they wrote a letter saying
that the new alibi witness, which was a Brady violation.
By the way, so the beginning, we talked about nine
alibi witnesses that saw my husband in the Upper Peninsula
at the time of the crime. There was the tenth
one that was identified through a foyer request that was
hidden by, you know, the prosecution. The prosecution never informed

(01:08:40):
the defense that they actually interviewed this woman. My husband
was on a date with a girl in the Upper
Peninsula the night before the murder. His car had actually
broken down and he had to call a friend to
get the car jumped, and he was a big boy
in Escanaba having soup, and they they had interviewed this witness,

(01:09:03):
never disclosed it to the defense, so they couldn't interview her.
But she also would have been able to testify to
my husband's frame of mind the night before the murder.
There was mere hours before the murder technically, because he
was with her until it was like three a m.
The crime occurred at nine am downstate. And you know,

(01:09:26):
my husband wasn't in some hurry to get away from
this girl. He was on a date, you know, eating
soup and having conversation and trying to play kissy face
with her at the end of the date. You know,
like he wasn't trying to you know, rush down state
and commit some clandestine murder.

Speaker 6 (01:09:45):
Yeah, I mean, it's just it's morticrous. Oh you're on
mute cheek.

Speaker 2 (01:09:50):
Did she drive into the private airport? I mean, what
the hell?

Speaker 3 (01:09:54):
What date there was?

Speaker 12 (01:09:57):
You know, no pilot ever identified, no flight plans, there
was no Ghettowa, there was never anybody, never anything.

Speaker 6 (01:10:06):
In fact, we had three.

Speaker 12 (01:10:09):
Pilots that worked at those airports, both in the Upper
Peninsula and in Saint Clair County during the time of
the murder, some of them which knew the pilot that
testified that said that my husband could have chartered a flight,
and they all called him basically a liar, saying that
that didn't happen. Somebody didn't just waltz into one of

(01:10:29):
these airports in the middle of the night and say, hey,
can I catch a flight downstate that never happened, and.

Speaker 2 (01:10:37):
The Concord de France back then and back.

Speaker 12 (01:10:41):
There was an excellent article by Hannah Rappoley of CBS
News and she quotes these three pilots in her article
saying that you know that this person that testified for
Robert Cleland was not trustworthy, that they him, that what
he was saying was absolutely absurd.

Speaker 6 (01:11:05):
And those letters went to our governor as well.

Speaker 1 (01:11:08):
And so what do we know if there's any kind
of association between and any of these individuals, you know,
Robert Cleveland or Danna Nessel, Gretchen Whimmer and the victims

(01:11:30):
mayor father. Do we know if there's any kind of connection.

Speaker 6 (01:11:35):
So, I mean.

Speaker 12 (01:11:39):
Cleveland was a Republican, Dana Nessel, Gretchen Wimmer Democrats. We
don't know if you know there was a connection. There
were some some allegations. I don't I didn't see anything,
but there were some allegations that potentially the victim's father
contributed to the.

Speaker 6 (01:12:00):
Judge. Well he's what went on to be a judge.

Speaker 12 (01:12:02):
It would have been the prosecutor at the time his
campaign for ag race. However, I didn't find those records
when I looked for them.

Speaker 1 (01:12:15):
So yeah, this guy gets uh oh right.

Speaker 6 (01:12:20):
Is this a different case.

Speaker 1 (01:12:22):
No, no, no, this is one of the Okay. Detroit
a judge granted a prosecutor's request to drop a rape
case Monday against the Michigan man who was immediately released
from custody after nearly a decade in prison.

Speaker 12 (01:12:36):
That's the one where Mike Wendling is quoted down at
the bottom of the article saying that the police should not,
you know, don't owe him an apology.

Speaker 1 (01:12:47):
Okay, oh yeah, he said his office turned over the
California information as soon as it was discovered in two
thousand and five. Wendelin said Grissom doesn't deserve an apology
from law enforcement for his years in prison. Yeah, well
your husband is has been in prison for thirty eight years. Yes, yes, okay,

(01:13:12):
so he was he was twenty three years old when
this thing happened and he's now sixty one.

Speaker 6 (01:13:19):
Right, that's correct, Yes, whole life in prison.

Speaker 1 (01:13:25):
Yeah. So now he's the town that he is, the
prison that he's in. What's the name of the town.

Speaker 12 (01:13:34):
In Lenox Township, Michigan. It's called the McComb Correctional Facility.
It's off of I ninety four in just south of
Port here on north of Detroit, Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:13:47):
So is that a maximum minimum medium.

Speaker 12 (01:13:51):
No, it's a it's just one of our regular prisons.
He's a Level two prisoner. Lifers are not allowed to
be class or Level one, which would be the lowest level.
It does have up to five in that prison. He
has the lowest security points of any that you can
have as a prisoner. He doesn't have any major misconducts

(01:14:12):
or anything that you know that he had on his
record from you know, right when he came down in
Jackson when he was very young. He there were a
few fights. There were murders right in front of him.
I mean, everybody wanted a piece of him because he
was a ninja killer. So there were some you know,
there were some scuffles when he first went down. But
he hasn't had anything major in in many years. So

(01:14:34):
he doesn't have any major misconducts or you know, which
would be considered like trying to escape or stabbing somebody
or killing somebody or you know, any.

Speaker 1 (01:14:45):
You'd think that a guy that is allegedly a ninja
and is able to, you know, at a notice moments notice,
get a chartered flight you know, and it's not documented
at all that he could, uh commenteer some kind of
l chop oh you know, uh get out of prison thing, right.

Speaker 6 (01:15:09):
I think.

Speaker 8 (01:15:11):
Was supposed to be stuff. I thought he was supposed
to get in and get out. And you know, why
would he use a shotgun blast? Well, speaking of the shotgun,
did he own did he own a shotgun?

Speaker 3 (01:15:24):
He did not know.

Speaker 4 (01:15:25):
And he what type of car.

Speaker 1 (01:15:26):
Was seen at the at the crime scene muffled and
Ninja had a car with a bat muffled.

Speaker 12 (01:15:34):
So my husband drove a Mercury Marquis. It was actually
broken down the night before the murder. Again, when he
was on that date, he had to get it jumped.

Speaker 6 (01:15:43):
It wasn't starting. He had car parts, he had.

Speaker 1 (01:15:47):
Where was the car located?

Speaker 12 (01:15:50):
So the car there was, I mean there was never
a car identified to my husband that was tied to
this time.

Speaker 1 (01:15:56):
No, I mean your your husband's car. Where is that
broke down?

Speaker 4 (01:16:00):
Oh?

Speaker 12 (01:16:00):
That was up in the Escanaba way up in the
Upper Peninsula. He had broken down. Yeah, yeah, I mean
he wasn't. I mean, it was just the again, it
was just a perfect storm. It was just a ludicrous thing.
The original description of the car in the parking lot
at the college. It started out as a maz dot

(01:16:21):
RX something or other like, which is like a something
like that. Yeah, and and then it later changed to
like like a station wagon type. I mean this, he
changed the description of the car, he changed the plates.
He was just they were just grasping at straws, trying
to you know, trying to fit my husband, you know,

(01:16:44):
to peg him for this crime, which you know, there
was just a zero evidence of. It was just all
you know, it was prosecutor misconduct. It was a failing
attorney who didn't object to all of these ridiculous, ridiculous claim.

Speaker 1 (01:17:02):
What you've got prosecutor al mist conduct. You've got a
defense attorney that's a cokehead. People that are recan't you know,
been hypnotized and then they're recanting. What the what?

Speaker 12 (01:17:18):
There's actually even more I mean that I didn't even
send John. But there was the original judge on this case.
His name was Judge Cordon. He was There's a report
by Herbert Welser who interviewed a couple of Michigan State
Police officers that judge.

Speaker 6 (01:17:38):
During the time frame.

Speaker 12 (01:17:39):
Now we don't know if it was exactly during the trial,
or if it was right before the trial but was
in the timeframe of the trial, had been pulled over
by some Michigan State Police officers and was drunk driving
and the proceed there was calls made. There was no
police report written, but they these officers had busted the

(01:18:00):
judge for drunk driving and the prosecutor got the judge off.
And this is in a report and there's multiple officers
named in that report by former detective Herbert Welser.

Speaker 3 (01:18:15):
Wow, there was a.

Speaker 6 (01:18:15):
Lot going on.

Speaker 12 (01:18:16):
I mean, there was prosecutors and the judge and it
was just absurd. It was just cleep, god absurdity.

Speaker 1 (01:18:27):
From other cases we've examined. I mean, I'm surprised that
the case didn't happen in Indiana anyway.

Speaker 12 (01:18:35):
And I know polygraphs are not admissible in court, but
my husband and his primary alibi witness, Michelle Woodworth, who
he was with, by the way, in north of Escanaba,
twenty miles north of Escanaba where they had a farmhouse
in Rock, Michigan, they both passed polygraph tests saying that
you know, he had nothing to do with us, that
he was not downstate during that murder at all.

Speaker 8 (01:18:58):
Well, I was saying normally as they're not admissible, but
when you're letting other bad accent, I mean prior bad accent,
and I guess you know, everything is all's fair.

Speaker 1 (01:19:10):
So this occurred November fifth, nineteen eighty six.

Speaker 6 (01:19:13):
Right, that's correct, November okay.

Speaker 1 (01:19:15):
So Greg was kind of enough to dig up the
fact that the low temperature was zero degrees.

Speaker 6 (01:19:21):
Yeah, it was freezing.

Speaker 12 (01:19:23):
I mean, you know you're not going to be driving
back then the speed limit was fifty five in Michigan.
You know you're not going to be driving and flying
down those icy roads. To try and make that timeline
again for the murder happened at nine am, and he
was seen in the karate studio in Upper Michigan at

(01:19:45):
eleven thirty so by multiple witnesses. And these witnesses, the
one guy owned the karate studio. He's in one of
the videos saying, you know, this guy was totally railroaded.
Another guy, Mark Sherman, was certain that it was the date.
He was a new student at that karate studio. He
had only been to that karate studio like twice before,

(01:20:06):
so there was no confusing the date, and he had
a parent teacher conference that day, and he remembered specifically
that they they that it was the day that he
had that parent teacher conference that he saw my husband
in the in the karate studio.

Speaker 6 (01:20:22):
There were other students, you know, that saw.

Speaker 12 (01:20:24):
Him in downtown Escanaba walking to a store called the
Treasure Chest, and they they they were actually skipping school,
and the records reflected that they were skipping school. They
knew that they saw him right, you know, around two thirty.
So there were multiple multiple instances of him being seen

(01:20:48):
in Escanaba the day of the crime, and and none
of those and the prosecutor just fueled this, you know,
this theory that he could have They just planted this doubt.
But even in the documentary, you've got Richard Pelgram, one
of the jurors, saying, you know, we have no evidence

(01:21:10):
in this case. It was all circumstantial. We have no evidence,
we have no pilot, we have no airplane we have
it was all circumstantial.

Speaker 6 (01:21:17):
We don't have an answer.

Speaker 1 (01:21:18):
Stretch. That's a stretch.

Speaker 2 (01:21:21):
J did you have the whole plane thing?

Speaker 3 (01:21:26):
I mean, who made that up?

Speaker 2 (01:21:28):
Who brought that in?

Speaker 5 (01:21:28):
I mean, that doesn't even make any sense.

Speaker 12 (01:21:31):
They couldn't make the they couldn't make the drive work,
so he had to bring in something.

Speaker 3 (01:21:35):
And how did they introduce.

Speaker 5 (01:21:37):
I mean, I'm sorry if I I mean, I don't
know how they would introduce that. How would you use
that as evidence in the court.

Speaker 12 (01:21:44):
So it was at the end of the trial after
I think it was like called rebuttals or whatever. It
was like the one of the last things that they
could bring in. It was one of the he just
brought brought in this expert you know, expert person never
just close to the jury of course, that this was
his friend in personal pilot.

Speaker 1 (01:22:04):
And yeah, that's really I mean, there's got to be
there has got to be a connection between the victim's father,
mayor and one of these players. In my view, I mean,
i mean, are they gonna make up all this shit,

(01:22:27):
you know, and jeopardize themselves, you know they were paying
somebody back or or doing something.

Speaker 8 (01:22:34):
Did you ever have a relationship wolf deceit it. Did
they have get into any altercation or anything?

Speaker 3 (01:22:42):
No?

Speaker 12 (01:22:43):
No, So my so what's interesting is this woman in Crystal,
who was the woman that my husband dated and who
was the fiance of the deceased. She had actually had
been my husband before before that she had dated.

Speaker 6 (01:23:05):
The victim, Scott macklum.

Speaker 12 (01:23:07):
But between my husband and Scott Macklum, there was even
another guy that she had dated, So it wasn't you know,
you would think that they would pin it on the
last guy like that guy would be you know if no,
not at the time, and he had he's passed away
now he was he passed away in a motorcycle or
a snowbollill accident.

Speaker 6 (01:23:26):
But the interesting thing is, you.

Speaker 12 (01:23:28):
Know, if my husband was so jealous, why wouldn't he
have gone off after the previous the most recent guy
that she dated, not the guy before that, you know
what I mean, It just it just doesn't make any sense.
My husband said that he never met Scott macklum. He
thinks he might have seen him at a video store
where Crystal worked at a video store and.

Speaker 6 (01:23:52):
Across the parking lot.

Speaker 12 (01:23:53):
He might have, you know, seen him through a window,
you know, in the distance, but as far as face
to face meeting, no, never.

Speaker 2 (01:24:02):
What did Crystal say about all this when when he
was charged and.

Speaker 12 (01:24:08):
So originally Crystal, you know, the original, the original rate
when they first asked, you know, Crystal, what happened, and who,
you know who was mad at Scott. The answer was, oh, nobody.
He doesn't have any any any enemies. We don't know
who did it. You know, he's, you know, this really
great guy there. You know, nobody was mad at him.

Speaker 6 (01:24:32):
And then later on.

Speaker 12 (01:24:35):
Crystal's actually it was Crystal's little sister Tracy who was
talking to the detectives and they said, who else could
it be? You know, who else you know could this
have been that could have been upset with him? And
Crystal's sister Tracy mentioned my husband and said, well, there
was that one guy that you dated and he, you know,
he rode a motorcycle and he had a leather jacket

(01:24:55):
and he was ino ninja. And the detective said, oh,
tell me about him. And so they laser focused on
my husband and they never really looked anywhere else.

Speaker 6 (01:25:06):
They did a search of his property.

Speaker 12 (01:25:07):
They never found any any ballistics, any fire, aren't you know,
any fire, nothing on his clothes, nothing, There was no
shotgun ever, you know, no residue, no.

Speaker 1 (01:25:24):
No, well it sounds like they're profiling ninjas.

Speaker 6 (01:25:29):
That pretty much what they did.

Speaker 1 (01:25:30):
Yeah, yeah, just unbelievable.

Speaker 6 (01:25:36):
Yeah, I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:25:42):
That the hypnotized person. Just so I could make it
clear the hypnotized person, what was their testimony?

Speaker 12 (01:25:52):
What's interesting about that hypnotized hypnotized witness, if you want
to call him this. He went on to be a
police officer, and he actually we literally thought, okay, now,
was he just trying to impress himself against, you know,
to the police officers, because that's what he wanted to be.
He wanted this is his career. So it was like, oh, yeah, yeah,

(01:26:12):
I can help, I can help solve this case. I'm
gonna go get hypnotized.

Speaker 8 (01:26:18):
It.

Speaker 12 (01:26:21):
I don't even know what else to say about that.
It was just there was actually there was back to
the trial. After the conviction, there was an article in
the newspaper, and I can send it to you, but
it basically said that without that hypnotized witnessess, we had
no we had no case at all. That was a
quote by the assistant prosecutor, not the original prosecutor, not

(01:26:44):
Robert Cleland. It was by Thomas Kulhand, an assistant prosecutor,
who said, without the testimony of that hypnotized witness, we
had no case at all.

Speaker 6 (01:26:52):
There is.

Speaker 1 (01:26:55):
Oh my god, without the testimony. This is the highlighted version.
If you can't read, it's kind of an eye test.
Without that testimony, we could not have retried this case.
Without this testimony, we had no case at all.

Speaker 8 (01:27:15):
So they're saying testimentic testimony is not admissible, but they
used it even though it was inadmissible.

Speaker 2 (01:27:26):
So this is the second child. Just say a retrial.

Speaker 6 (01:27:29):
No, that was the original trial. There was no retrial.

Speaker 4 (01:27:32):
He wasn't.

Speaker 6 (01:27:33):
I mean, they wouldn't they, you know, I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:27:37):
There's there's a million appeal things here, right.

Speaker 12 (01:27:40):
Yeah, yeah, and most of them were just immediately shot down.

Speaker 6 (01:27:44):
Rubber stamp denied.

Speaker 12 (01:27:46):
I think it's very first appeal, This very first appeal
was denied by Saint Clair County and it actually said
that these things have already been brought up on appeal,
which is a total lie. It was his very first
appeal and they said these things have already been brought up,
and he's like, what they brought up?

Speaker 5 (01:28:05):
The private investigator working for mister Kensu, has he done
any has he looked into Scott mclum's background at all,
like who was running with and what he was into?

Speaker 12 (01:28:21):
And you know, there's a Oh, it's really frustrating because
you know the original.

Speaker 6 (01:28:30):
There was no original. Looking into into Scott.

Speaker 12 (01:28:34):
Mclum, I found out in May of twenty twenty three,
twenty three or twenty twenty four. I was digging through
newspaper dot com, the archives, and I actually came across
of one of the very first articles that the port
here On Times Herald, the local newspaper, put out about

(01:28:56):
the shooting. It was actually the day of the shooting.
It must have been later in that afternoon, the day
of the shooting, on November fifth. There was an article
and it mentioned an address in that article of a
port here On address which was where the crime occurred.
We always thought that the victim lived in Croswell, Michigan

(01:29:18):
with his parents, and so all these years later, I mean,
I feel like we were so far behind the eight ball.

Speaker 6 (01:29:24):
I sent it to the original.

Speaker 12 (01:29:26):
I sent it to Herb Welser, our investigator, and said
her where's this address coming from? Was this from his
school records or was this from his driver's license?

Speaker 1 (01:29:35):
Like?

Speaker 6 (01:29:35):
Where did this address come from?

Speaker 12 (01:29:36):
Because I thought he lived in Croswell with his parents,
and this is saying that he lived in here On
where the crime occurred. And Herb said, oh my god, Paula,
I have never noticed that address before. And you know,
we go to dig and look at this address and
we find out that this address was tied to his father.
It would have been his aunt, it was his father's sister.

(01:29:59):
And so we don't know who was in that house
at that time, was he living with others, Where was
he the night before the murder. We don't know if
he was with Crystal. We don't know if he was
with you know, there were some allegations about him potentially
selling drugs. There's always the possibility that there was just

(01:30:19):
a road rage incident, that this was a random thing.
We actually had the FBI profilers five four FBI profilers
from the Consult podcast, Julia Cowley and team actually looked
into this everything that they could. They read all of
the trial transcripts, all of the subsequent hearing information.

Speaker 6 (01:30:41):
And they looked at this and they said they never
do this, but.

Speaker 12 (01:30:43):
They looked at this case and they said that there's
absolutely was a wrongful conviction here that my husband doesn't
even fit the profile of the person that killed Scott Becklam.

Speaker 1 (01:30:53):
Sure, so the victim is alleged to have had some
kind of.

Speaker 3 (01:31:00):
History, was well.

Speaker 12 (01:31:03):
He had he had acquaintances and it was tied to
many in the drug trade there. And originally, I mean,
you know, and and it sounds far fetched, but originally,
after Timogen had been sentenced, and he originally didn't understand
or know when he when David Dean was appointed to
him as his counsel, he didn't know that David Dean

(01:31:24):
had all of the issues with drugs in a habit.

Speaker 6 (01:31:26):
Yeah, I was thinking maybe maybe Scott, I would like
to know.

Speaker 1 (01:31:32):
I would like to know if what David Dean's alibi
was nodding Vinnie's attorney.

Speaker 6 (01:31:42):
It's just absurd. It's ludicrous.

Speaker 12 (01:31:46):
That this case, there's just every single thing that could
have gone wrong in this case happened.

Speaker 8 (01:31:51):
And you could check and I'm not sure if it
was done. You could check the neighborhood and see what
the crying pattern in the honest last doc fathers whatever house, yes,
and see if there was drug activity or what type
of activity there was around here. I mean, it's still

(01:32:11):
thirty eight years later, he still lost thirty eight years
of his life.

Speaker 2 (01:32:14):
And you said, you just came across this two years ago.

Speaker 12 (01:32:17):
So yeah, we're looking into all of that. We're trying
to find out where that address came from. The news
reporter that published that was not he's not He's deceased now,
so we don't know where he got that address from.
I wanted to find out if it was from his
driver's license or if it was from like an emergency
contact at the school. Was it the like the college records?

(01:32:40):
Would you know, We're trying to obtain where that address?

Speaker 1 (01:32:43):
So did they Where did Cantu live then.

Speaker 12 (01:32:48):
So during the actual crime when November, he was living
in Rock, Michigan, about twenty twenty miles north of Escanaba
in the Upper.

Speaker 3 (01:33:01):
Peninsula, which is even further away.

Speaker 6 (01:33:03):
Even further away than the Karate studio.

Speaker 3 (01:33:05):
Wherever they do.

Speaker 1 (01:33:06):
A search warrant of is a residence.

Speaker 6 (01:33:08):
They did and they found nothing.

Speaker 1 (01:33:10):
And they found nothing. So we've got a ninja that
has an airplane and a shotgun, but they never found
the shotgun and the car. He's got a You have
a ninja that has a Mazda airplane and a shotgun.
They didn't find any of that shit of it.

Speaker 12 (01:33:33):
No driver that I mean this, where did this airplane
land in some field in Saint Clair County? And then
how did he get from the airplane to the college.
You know, there was no nobody ever came forward and
said I included with this guy.

Speaker 6 (01:33:47):
Nobody.

Speaker 12 (01:33:48):
There's nothing, There is absolutely nothing. My husband did not
commit this crime, and he served thirty eight years for
somebody else's crime.

Speaker 6 (01:33:54):
There's a murderer on the loose, and nobody.

Speaker 12 (01:33:58):
Seems to care even it's what's sad is that the
victim's family refuses to look anywhere else. They're not upset
about this at all. They're perfectly fine with my husband
being in prison for this time.

Speaker 6 (01:34:11):
They think he did it well.

Speaker 8 (01:34:12):
If you was orchestrating, and then you think you got
your man, if possible. I'm not saying that dad was
orchestrating this whole thing. No, but someone orchestrated. Now you're
saying he leaped over the current boyfriend to go to
the past boyfriend.

Speaker 2 (01:34:30):
He's miles away. Listen.

Speaker 8 (01:34:35):
I've had, honestly, I've had at least I think at
least two jobs where the guy put himself in another state,
but I knew he was in Philadelphia because of the
way they manufactured the evidence. So it can be done.
But what you're explaining here is entirely different than that

(01:34:56):
you know.

Speaker 6 (01:34:56):
It was nineteen eighty six.

Speaker 12 (01:34:58):
It was before the internet, it was right, No, exactly
how would my husband have known that this guy was
in a college parking lot? Really, this guy, he was
in the college parking lot, but he wasn't even parking
in the spot where he normally parked. He was parking
in a different lot that he didn't even have a
permit for. So it's nineteen eighty six. My husband's been

(01:35:20):
up north for months, living with his pregnant girlfriend, starting
his new life, way far away from everything in Santa
alanke or in Saint Clair County. And I mean, what,
you can't stalk somebody from four hundred miles away.

Speaker 6 (01:35:33):
You can't jet down to port here.

Speaker 1 (01:35:37):
Nineteen eighty six is nationals from media.

Speaker 2 (01:35:40):
Those witnesses know your husband?

Speaker 6 (01:35:43):
What's that?

Speaker 2 (01:35:43):
Did they know your husband? And three witnesses at the
school at the.

Speaker 12 (01:35:47):
School, no, my husband, no, no, no.

Speaker 8 (01:35:53):
So they saw me there, And that's another thing. They
said they saw me earlier and in the morning, went.

Speaker 12 (01:35:57):
Clearly approximately an hour before four I think it was eight,
around eight am in a different lot. Wow, they saw
a guy in an army coat that you know.

Speaker 2 (01:36:10):
Looked like nineteen eighty six. That's all. We wore.

Speaker 1 (01:36:16):
A guy and.

Speaker 2 (01:36:19):
What done it?

Speaker 1 (01:36:20):
Just got out of just got off an airplane. Oh
my god, no, no, no.

Speaker 2 (01:36:29):
Tail number.

Speaker 5 (01:36:30):
And then they got So if you're if you're hypnotized
and give evidence.

Speaker 3 (01:36:33):
So how did you know that you knew it?

Speaker 2 (01:36:35):
I mean, I can't right, how did they know?

Speaker 1 (01:36:40):
Oh my god? So Paula, what's the story with this
Judge West. Judge West is the guy that denied relief
on November tenth or twenty fourteen, Mary on procedural grounds
where we've heard that before in cases that we know
that you knew it.

Speaker 12 (01:37:01):
A lot of stuff going on with him. So Judge
West is the current chief judge. Chief judge in Saint
Clair County denied my husband's appeal. His best friend there
in the jumper suit is serving prison time there in
Saint exact prison is my husband. He was Judge West's

(01:37:22):
campaign manager. You can see he's down there in the
bottom left hand corner. That was during Judge West's campaign
to run. He was on his sailboat often they used
to sail all over again. This Mark Olson guy was convicted.
He was charged of twenty seven counts of criminal sexual
misconduct reduced down to six counts. He was drugging and

(01:37:46):
raping young girls, taking photos of them while they were unconscious.
And the troubling slide there in the middle of the picture.
There in the middle is.

Speaker 6 (01:37:56):
Judge.

Speaker 12 (01:37:57):
It would be Mark Olsen's wife who was tagging Michael
West the judge in this post, and Michael West. It's
a little blurry there, but he basically says, might need
a pain killer to drown our sorrow.

Speaker 3 (01:38:10):
Sorrow, yeah, about.

Speaker 12 (01:38:13):
Pain killers when his best friend and campaign manager was
drugging and raping young girls.

Speaker 6 (01:38:20):
And we know that that happened, you know, on on some.

Speaker 12 (01:38:24):
Sailboats or that you know, there is a police report
down there at the bottom. There's a it's a little
bit cut off because I've got a little scrolling bar
here on the bottom, but basically that is a snippet
of a redacted police report talking about sailing with this pedophile.

Speaker 6 (01:38:43):
Uh.

Speaker 12 (01:38:43):
And she stated that you know they would go on
on Michael West's sailboat and that in pool parties that
he had as well.

Speaker 2 (01:38:53):
You gotta judge say you might need painkillers.

Speaker 12 (01:38:56):
That's what you have from a pedophile, That's right. Wow,
And I've been calling this judge out. You know, I've
been calling all of them out and none of them.
I mean, you know, I waited. I tried to be patient.
I waited for the Conviction Integrity Unit to go through
their thing, and when they decided to not release the

(01:39:17):
report and they're leaving my husband in prison, this is
war for me.

Speaker 6 (01:39:22):
I'm not playing around. I'm I'm gonna call you out.

Speaker 12 (01:39:25):
I'm gonna i'm pictures, I'm going to show what you're doing,
and I'm I'm just.

Speaker 1 (01:39:31):
This is Paul, You're an incredible advocate for this.

Speaker 2 (01:39:36):
Well, I know exactly what you mean.

Speaker 8 (01:39:38):
I mean, I've had the utmost respect for the judicial
system my whole career, judges and everything. I just natural,
you know, but what I've seen over the past several years,
the level of corruption in our justice system is enough

(01:40:00):
is enough with this? And you have to call them
out because it's been going on for so long. You know,
I can't say the judge Wes wasn't out there on
the sailboat with these and he's already talking about drugging someone,
even if it's himself.

Speaker 2 (01:40:12):
Was he a part of this?

Speaker 1 (01:40:14):
You know?

Speaker 2 (01:40:15):
It's it's some there's something with these powers.

Speaker 8 (01:40:18):
You know, you know Epstein Allen is all in the
news with all this other nonsense right now. But you
got all these powerful people doing these things. And then
when you get someone caught up in the net, you
get the dolphin caught up in the net. I your husband.
You know, they all get together, they circle the wagons
and say, Freeman's going down, Tonsu's going down. Yeah, there's
nothing like a little person like you can do, because

(01:40:41):
the King say everyone is immune from everything.

Speaker 1 (01:40:44):
Some to get okay, So two things we kind of
want to cover. One, there's a book that obviously this
has peauked the interest of a lot of people. Yes,
a book on Timmy's life is available now. Our friend

(01:41:04):
tell Vision The Wrongful Conviction of tele Vision Cansu by
A joy Marie Man. Paula. Could you is there anything
you want to say about that book?

Speaker 6 (01:41:19):
Yes, so I got it. Actually, it's a very nice,
thick book book. It is a very actually we.

Speaker 12 (01:41:27):
Have a lot of pictures, exhibits, court trial transcripts. There
is a lot of information in this book talking about
the wrongful conviction, a lot of detail in here. And
the wonderful woman, the author of this book is incredibly
ninety percent blind.

Speaker 6 (01:41:47):
She is just a little powerhouse.

Speaker 12 (01:41:50):
She was one of the first people who interviewed my
husband from prison on her podcast.

Speaker 6 (01:41:54):
And she was so.

Speaker 12 (01:41:57):
Upset and frustrated with the fact that my been was
wrongfully convicted. She's become just an incredible friend. And all
of the proceeds for this book go to her. So
I'm very proud of it. I hope that people read
it just because it will enlighten you to the misconduct
and too, you know, the additional things. And it's also

(01:42:17):
there's a ladding here regarding letters of support from many
many people, judges, teachers. The spectrum is really really big.
So it's it's a great read. It's well worth the money,
and it's just it's on Amazon and it's on.

Speaker 6 (01:42:35):
Barns and Noble.

Speaker 1 (01:42:36):
So okay, So Paul, the name of the book again is.

Speaker 6 (01:42:40):
Wrongful is our Friend temujin.

Speaker 1 (01:42:44):
Okay, And it's available on.

Speaker 6 (01:42:47):
Amazon, Amazon and Bardens and Noble.

Speaker 1 (01:42:49):
It looks very thorough.

Speaker 6 (01:42:51):
It is it's a great book.

Speaker 12 (01:42:53):
I mean, she's spent over a year working through pulling
together documents and it interviews and it was it was great.
It's just an incredible I'm very proud of.

Speaker 1 (01:43:04):
It, as you should be. Uh, you should be very
proud of your advocacy for him. Incredible, incredible, Paula, are
you at liberty? I know we talked on the phone
yesterday last night and there is someone in your corner. Now,
are you at liberty to tell us who that is?

Speaker 12 (01:43:25):
We're holding off just a little bit longer, but we
do have a major, major celebrity who's on board to
start coming out and calling out our governor to release
my husband. So we're very excited about that, and I
hope that that provides.

Speaker 1 (01:43:43):
The can we can we have you back when absolutely,
when that's public, because it's awesome, it's incredible.

Speaker 8 (01:43:54):
Now you got my head twirling, trying to think automatically.
I'm going to Michigan.

Speaker 2 (01:43:58):
I'm trying to.

Speaker 1 (01:43:59):
Yet, Oh my god. Yeah, Well, we're not celebrities, you
know myself, Jake and Greg are not celebrities. Although Creig
is one in Tennessee, right, So Jake's one in uh
you know, on the East coast. He's in a just
undisclosed on I'm a target.

Speaker 2 (01:44:20):
I'm a target, Paul at home.

Speaker 1 (01:44:22):
Yeah, Paul, I just to give you an idea, it's
an inside joke, but not really. Jake has done a
hellow job, you know, calling our corruption in Philadelphia, which
seems to be uh yeah, you know, it's it's crazy,
but it sounds like the Pennsylvania Justice system and the

(01:44:44):
Michigan justice system attended the same corruption courses online.

Speaker 3 (01:44:49):
Yeah, right, you know, I.

Speaker 12 (01:44:52):
Don't know why we can't get to the point where
we just plug all the data into a computer. Plug
the constitution, the rules of professional conduct, Plug in the MCLs,
the MCRs, whatever your state initials are, the you know,
the the sentencing guidelines, the previous the past convictions, the evidence,
the testimony. Plug everything in, and let's just get rid

(01:45:13):
of the appellate courts. We'll have a jury, like, do
an audit of the data and see if the computers
can do any better, because right now, judges and attorneys
and prosecutors are all getting paid off, and it's just
nobody has any confidence in our court system. And how
can we when things like this are happening all over
the place?

Speaker 1 (01:45:31):
Right? Okay, So right, as I mentioned before, neither Jake,
greg Rye or you know, celebrities, but we would like
to call these people up. So we'd like to have
an Robert Cleveland is still.

Speaker 6 (01:45:50):
Alive, right, he is and keeps retired.

Speaker 1 (01:45:54):
Okay, great, So, Robert Cleveland, you know, uh, contact us.
We'd love to speak to you. You were the original
prosecutor and became a federal judge, and we'd like to
ask you about your friend and personal pilot. Understand to
us where the jury. So you know, you're more than

(01:46:17):
welcome to Kamon and we're fair and balanced and we'd
be happy to talk to you. So, mister Robert Cleveland police,
contact us. We'd love to talk to you. Okay. David
Dean Cocad he's dead, right, Okay. So, Gretchen Wigmer, Uh,
you know, governor of Michigan, you denied the clemency application twice.

Speaker 12 (01:46:45):
She's let about forty forty guilty people go since she's
been governor.

Speaker 1 (01:46:51):
Interesting, I wonder if there were some kind of payoffs
involved in that. Yeah, let's see, Gretchen. Can you tell
us the difference between the ones that you've pardoned and
provided cleminency to the payoffs that were attached to that,
and why you're not doing that for uh tem usion?

(01:47:12):
Can sue? I've been interested in doing that, and again,
we're fair and balanced, and you know, we just asked
you some questions. So Gretchen gives us a call. Gretchen Whitmer,
give us a call, you know, and you can have
your friend Joshapiro show up to because we have some
questions for him. And Dana Nessel, the current attorney general

(01:47:40):
and a Democrat attorney general in Michigan, UH who created
a conviction integrity unit that sounds like it should be
in Philadelphia, right because they've done the same work. Pathetically, Dana,

(01:48:01):
we'd like to talk to you. Dana Nessel, Democrat Attorney
General of Michigan. We'd like to talk to you, and
again we're fair and balanced. We'd love to talk to you, okay.
And Michael Wendling is the what's his what's his deal now?

Speaker 6 (01:48:20):
Current prosecutor in Saint Clair County.

Speaker 1 (01:48:23):
Okay, we'd love to talk to you as well. And
Michael West so just find that just just you know,
go to our website, UH search Warrant podcast dot com
and ed us on the contact page and we'd love
to have you on. We're fair and balanced, and we
got a lot of questions, okay, but we've got to wrap. Hey, Paula,

(01:48:46):
you are an awesome advocate.

Speaker 6 (01:48:49):
Thank you absolutely, I really appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (01:48:53):
Yeah, Paula, we would love to have you one. When
you want to announce who is you know in your.

Speaker 12 (01:49:03):
Corner, everybody will be contacting me and you guys will
be on my list.

Speaker 3 (01:49:08):
I will.

Speaker 1 (01:49:08):
Yeah, well I'm sure, Oh.

Speaker 3 (01:49:10):
My god, it'll be very exciting.

Speaker 1 (01:49:13):
Yeah, yes, Paula. Thank you very much. We got to wrap.

Speaker 2 (01:49:16):
Thank you, thank.

Speaker 1 (01:49:18):
You, thank you, Paula. We'd love to have you back,
so thank you very much. Thank you,