Gaslit with Special Guests Jennifer Gatz and Jennifer Finnerty

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Hey, good afternoon. It's search weren't and we're alive. So
what's the title of this episode. It's entitled gas Lit
like as in gas lighting, and we have two special guests.
We have Jennifer Finnerty from Boston and we have Jennifer

(01:14):
Gets Guts from Georgia. So let me just tell you
we've got so far. We've got Detective Jake Jacobs from
Philadelphia amaside and the officer involves shooting unit. And we
usually have investigative reporter Rob Cipriano, who's a former staff
writer for the Los Angeles Times and they now defunct

(01:37):
Philadelphia Inquirer. He also writes for a newsweek. But he's
got a medical emergency, not it's not super significant, but
he's got a medical emergencies he's tending to so it's
not likely we'll have him today. Okay, So UH on

(02:00):
the on in regard to gas lit, we're gonna be
talking about gas lighting, a corruption, fraud, wrongful prosecutions. UH
in Philadelphia, Boston and Indiana.

Speaker 2 (02:16):
UH.

Speaker 1 (02:16):
Los Angeles, California, harrisburg Zorros, the Soros District Attorney Larry Krasner.
A couple of updates on that and Shapiro Josh Shapiro,
the governor of Pennsylvania, and his affiliations with p l

(02:36):
M and ATA are Antifa and de I and Dodge.
So that's what we're going to talk about first. There's
a couple other updates though, and we have our producer
is Bill from Hudson Valley and he's kind enough to
help us out today. So thank you Bill if we could. Uh.

(03:02):
First of all, we have an additional team member with
us today, our correspondent from Tennessee veteran ncis specially as Greg. Hi,
how you doing good? How are you doing good? What's
happening down there? Weather?

Speaker 3 (03:18):
It's beautiful? Unfortunately that means I got to mow.

Speaker 1 (03:22):
So yeah, I woke up this morning and there was snow.
That is amazing. Uh uh, Jake, we don't want to
say who you're where you're at, but what's the weather there?

Speaker 4 (03:38):
It's uh, it's okay. I was actually worried about Greg
last week. I had a a lot of storms down.

Speaker 5 (03:44):
It, didn't you.

Speaker 3 (03:45):
Yeah, I actually got trapped. I was on my way
to Texas and got trapped over in uh near Memphis
with all the tornadoes and stuff, and I had to
turn around and come back because uh I continued on
for several days.

Speaker 1 (03:58):
Yes, that line was unbelievable.

Speaker 3 (04:03):
It seemed like it was. It was a gnomen not
to go to Texas because it just covered up all
the highways I had to go. Unfortunately, it's a lot
of people, had a lot of destruction, and Little Rock
and Memphis and Jackson, Tennessee, and uh a place called Whiteville, Tennessee.
They got hammered, multiple.

Speaker 1 (04:23):
Brutal, brutal, especially if you're if you have to travel
through that to get where you're going.

Speaker 6 (04:29):
You know.

Speaker 3 (04:29):
Yeah, being in the mountains, were lucky because you know
that water runoff, It runs off because of the mountains
well over there, it's really flat, so it pulls up
and then it washes out the highways and the bridges
and the streams get they swell really fast.

Speaker 1 (04:46):
Yeah, well, at least you're safe, you know.

Speaker 3 (04:50):
I am sore.

Speaker 1 (04:52):
Greg had been on his way to a competition, right, Greg,
can you tell us what that competition is? Right?

Speaker 3 (05:00):
Going to Calabash twenty twenty five, which is I think
it's the biggest AK competition in the US. I think
there were like five hundred and seventy participants Yeah, they
went ahead and had it. They had a great time. Fortunately,
there's quite a few of us that didn't make it

(05:21):
for that, you know, for the weather. I guess next
year I needed to leave a week early.

Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah, exactly, exactly. Well, it's just is it held the
same time every year?

Speaker 3 (05:34):
I believe it's it's held at the same place every year.
It's Eagle Lake, Texas. It's a ranch, and they had
that one every spring. It's usually I believe in April,
and then the one that I was in January. They
hold that one twice a year. That's called Kalishnkon. That's
usually in Missouri.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
Yeah, okay, So there's an update on the Aubrey Wu case.
You remember we had her parents on from Pennsylvania and
the girl was missing, Aubrey Wo. She's been missing for
three months. Then they found her. So, Bill, can you
bring up Aubrey who? Number one, it says missing Palmer

(06:17):
Township girl and see Aubrey Wou found safe. Authorities say so.
And then number two, Bill, our nightmare is over. Missing
fourteen year old n See Aubrey Wu found safe eight
hundred miles away in Georgia. And then the third one

(06:43):
Aubrey Wu fifteen year old girl found safe three months
after disappearance. Investigation underway, and I know that it mentions
an investigation in regard to the parents, so we'll have to,
you know, watch closely what they're doing with that. And

(07:03):
then apparently there was a fire at the Pennsylvania Governor's house,
right what we know about the suspect and Eric Ourson
at Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro's residence on Front Street in Harrisburg.

(07:24):
So apparently they made an arrest. But you may also
want to review a Josh Shapiro fraud dot com so
you can put everything into perspective. I know a lot
of people were saying something about initially it looked a

(07:46):
little bit like a Gretchen Whitmer situation. But Jake, do
you know anything about this guy that they picked up
for torching the mansion.

Speaker 4 (08:01):
Well, what they're saying is, uh, he's mad at Josh
for Palestine, So you know, it's kind of weird. Though
I don't know, I don't know who's going to get fired.
But for you to for you to be able to
get into the Governor's mansion and do what he did,
I mean, who was sleep.

Speaker 5 (08:23):
I mean.

Speaker 4 (08:25):
My understanding is not only did he get in torched
the police, he also got out and called NWEM on one,
So that's how they caught him.

Speaker 5 (08:36):
So I don't know who needs.

Speaker 4 (08:39):
More training, Greg, I mean, who's who was?

Speaker 3 (08:46):
But just doesn't Pennsylvania. Doesn't Harrisburg have their own version
of the Capitol Police.

Speaker 1 (08:54):
Yes, yes, yes, they just And I'm not.

Speaker 3 (08:57):
Sure if it's their jurisdiction to cover that or not.

Speaker 1 (09:00):
I think the state police, the state police are.

Speaker 3 (09:03):
Covering because security detail.

Speaker 1 (09:08):
Okay, listen, uh you know, just see that.

Speaker 5 (09:12):
The house, Shohn? Did you how did you see inside
the mansion?

Speaker 1 (09:16):
Yeah? Well, we have a video, a brief video of it,
so I don't know whether it shows that, but keep
in mind, uh again, you want to check out jos
shapiro fraud dot com and that Josh Shapiro is five
foot three tall three five foot three inches tall. Okay,
so I'll run this video of him talking.

Speaker 7 (09:39):
But we do know that this attack was targeted. We
don't know the person's specific motive yet, but we do
know a few truths. First, this type of violence is
not okay. This kind of violence is becoming far too

(10:02):
common in our society, and I don't give a damn.
If it's coming from one particular side or the other,
directed at one particular party or another, or one particular
person or another, it is.

Speaker 5 (10:17):
Not okay.

Speaker 1 (10:20):
And it has to stop.

Speaker 7 (10:23):
We have to be better than this, and we have
a responsibility to all be better. Second, if this individual
was trying to deter me from doing my job as
your governor, rest assured, I will find a way to

(10:46):
work even harder than I was just yesterday for the
good people of Pennsylvania. Here's a third truth. If he
was trying to terrorize our family, our friends, the Jewish

(11:08):
community who joined us for a Passover Satyr in that
room last night, hear me on this. We celebrated our
faith last night proudly, and in a few hours we
will celebrate our second Satyr of Passover again proudly. No

(11:29):
one will deter me, or my family, or any Pennsylvania
from celebrating their faith openly and proudly.

Speaker 1 (11:45):
Oh the irony of him saying truths.

Speaker 4 (11:49):
You know, John, i'm him and his family is okay.
But I didn't see him around when they were burning
town down, when Pennsylvania was getting burned to the ground.
You had state trooper cars getting burned on seventy six,
you had neighborshoods getting burned down also by Arsenal. It's

(12:10):
the same thing happened to him. Then you had Larry
krastn are paying them millions of dollars, and he was
the attorney general at the time. He could have prosecuted
those people and he didn't.

Speaker 5 (12:21):
So when these people start talking about.

Speaker 4 (12:25):
Violence and it's not acceptable, is it not acceptable to
the governor and it's only acceptable to the citizens.

Speaker 5 (12:33):
I mean, it's still right now.

Speaker 4 (12:34):
This hasn't been five years since twenty twenty, at least
July twenty twenty, so he still has time to order
Dave Sunday or at least have a conversation with Dave
Sunday to prosecute these people. We know who they are
because Larry Krastna paid them or had them paid over
nine million.

Speaker 5 (12:51):
Dollars while he locked up.

Speaker 4 (12:52):
The police officer on the press got arrested during all
those protests was Swade officer Richard Nicoletti.

Speaker 1 (13:00):
So what do I think, who do you think Shorty
Shapiro called first after this, Wow, Greg his attorney. My
money's on Alex Zorros Alex, you ask him, hey, you know,
call off the dogs.

Speaker 4 (13:20):
I mean, that guy got it in and really torched that place,
and everybody was upstairs.

Speaker 5 (13:25):
This amazing. You know, they banged on the door and
got him out.

Speaker 4 (13:28):
But like I said, I think somebody's getting fired or
reassigned or something.

Speaker 5 (13:33):
Who's taller John Alex or.

Speaker 1 (13:35):
Josh they're equally. Uh, I don't I can't tell.

Speaker 4 (13:40):
If Shapiro's le sours you got on platform sneakers?

Speaker 1 (13:45):
Yeah? Are they related? They might as well be. I mean,
you know, money wise, they're related. They should be doing that.
And uh, Josh, worry about this more, will you?

Speaker 8 (14:02):
You know?

Speaker 1 (14:03):
Okay, anyway, he's an appauling governor and you go to
Josh Shapiro fraud dot com to learn more. When you've
got a governor that's up to his proverbial ass and
fraud and uh has a has a press conference wherein

(14:27):
he says truths unquote. I mean, it's really what ironny?
So anyway, Josh Shapiro fraud dot com. Okay, Bill, can
you bring that up Josh Shapiro fraud dot com please? Okay, yeah,

(14:49):
you can scroll. That's Leah Hoops by the way, in
the middle of that. We've had on uh, several occasions.
But if you go to Josh Shapiro fraud dot com
and you peruse that, and you can click on each
and every each and every entry there and it'll give

(15:13):
you something on Josh Shapiro and his reported involvement in fraud.
We've asked him repeatedly to come on the show. And
it's cricket. But anyway, okay, so okay, So we covered
Aubrey Wu. Yeah, guys have anything to say about.

Speaker 3 (15:35):
That, they and they haven't put out a whole lot yet.
I mean, I read the article that you sent me
this morning that said that the parents in the case,
the parents were under some kind of investigation, But I
haven't seen any any I did some other research. I
haven't seen any elaboration of what that means.

Speaker 1 (15:56):
Yeah, it'll be interesting to see if we can get
them back to tell us what hell's going on. But
she was in.

Speaker 3 (16:01):
Georgia, started up in Jasper, Georgia, which Jasper is about
an hour from Fletsey. I think, oh, really, it's the
middle of nowhere. I think it's out there as a
federal prison.

Speaker 1 (16:13):
So christ okay, let's quickly go through a couple of
these mind numbing things. This is a kidnap and torture
case recently. It's kind of interesting.

Speaker 9 (16:27):
Two men are facing charges and the disturbing kidnapping and
torture of a Bury And woman. Thanks for joining us
here at six. I'm Preston Phillips and I'm Mary No'm.

Speaker 2 (16:35):
The victim told police she was forced into a car
as she was arriving home from work and what happened
next nearly killed her. It's a case investigators have been
trying to solve for months.

Speaker 9 (16:43):
Go bos Jeremy Harris Live Tonight with the story in
Burien and Jeremy, the allegations here are just.

Speaker 10 (16:48):
Shocking, Preston, and they came to light today and charging
documents that were just filed here in King County that
alleged two men came up with a plan to kidnap
a women, steal her car and jewelry, and then kill.

Speaker 5 (17:02):
Her, but she survived.

Speaker 10 (17:05):
This is the Bury And apartment complex where police say
two men kidnapped the woman as she was getting home
from work From here. Investigators say the men used a
power drill on the woman's hands, threatened her, and eventually
drove her here to the mountains near Snowqualmie Pass, where
they forced her over a jersey barrier and then shot her.
She told police she played dead and waited for the

(17:28):
men to leave before flagging down help. After months of
work from the King County Sheriff's Office and the FBI,
two men, Alexander Arnaez and Kevin Sanabria, are now in
custody charged with kidnapping, robbery, and attempted murder.

Speaker 8 (17:42):
Well used powers drill.

Speaker 11 (17:45):
To drill into cand to get access to her cell
phone as well as bank accounts. They were threats major
this time as well to hill to kill her family.

Speaker 10 (17:58):
Investigators noted in their report word that the victim and
witnesses had extreme fear of retaliation, noting one of the
men has possible ties to a Venezuelan gang.

Speaker 1 (18:11):
Well that, you know, power drills to the hand. That's awesome. Okay,
what the hell is this? Okay? All right? So anyway,
we're trying to get the show distribution out a little bit,
so experiencing minor problems relative to that. Also, I wanted

(18:35):
to Okay, so what do you think about this? Jacob
shopping and ship look out A lot of pleasure up

(19:00):
your head walk that person sad voice.

Speaker 4 (19:03):
Good, now, put your hands up, what's.

Speaker 9 (19:11):
Up to talk to you?

Speaker 1 (19:26):
He should at least wait for the sunder go down
before he starts splashing it money and guns, right right, Okay,
So I just want to mention the deportation issue here.

Speaker 12 (19:38):
Democrat and media outrage over the deportation of Abrigo Garcia
in MS thirteen El Salvadorian, a legal alien criminal who
is hiding in Maryland, has been nothing short of despicable.
Based on the sensationalism of many of the people in
this room, you would think we deported a candidate for
Father of the Year.

Speaker 13 (19:57):
That's because unfortunately many.

Speaker 12 (19:59):
In this care more about this quote unquote Maryland father,
a legal alien MS thirteen gang member, than a Maryland
mother and an American citizen who was brutally murdered at
the hands of a different illegal alien. Of course, I
am referring to Rachel Morin. And if you didn't see, yesterday,
a Maryland jury found a legal alien, victor Antonio Martinez Hernandez,

(20:22):
guilty of murdering Rachel Moren in August of twenty twenty three.

Speaker 8 (20:26):
She was a thirty seven year.

Speaker 12 (20:28):
Old mother of five who was jogging in an otherwise
safe community northeast of Baltimore when this monster ambushed, strangled,
and beat her to death before stuffing her brutalized body
in a tunnel drain. The more infant family finally got
justice yesterday, but they will never get Rachel back. Our
hearts go out to Rachel's family, her five children, and

(20:48):
her mother Patty, who has suffered the unimaginable loss of
her daughter.

Speaker 1 (20:54):
Yeah, brutal.

Speaker 4 (20:56):
You know that's the line with the Josh Apperil stuff.
I mean, on the same day that they had fighting,
all the media questions about this guy from El Salvador.

Speaker 5 (21:08):
This guy was convicted of killing Rachel Moore.

Speaker 4 (21:11):
And now you got a senator on a junket over
to El Salvador to try to get him back. And
the senator is Rachel Moren's senator, who's not even mentioning
Rachel Moren. And if you NMS thirteen, I don't care.
If they're chargeting you and you rose through the ranks,
whether you're still in it or not, that means you

(21:32):
were involved in violence.

Speaker 5 (21:33):
More than likely you don't.

Speaker 4 (21:35):
Just you don't just get to the second level without
doing violence at the first level.

Speaker 5 (21:40):
And this guy was relatively at the top.

Speaker 4 (21:42):
So the fact that you have United States senators going
over to El Salvador and judges telling planes to turn
around to bring criminals back, I mean, the best person
was the president of El Salvador. He says, We're not
going to start releasing terrorists. I made the place safe.
I'm not going to let people out to make it

(22:03):
dangerous again. These people are just sick, like Trump said.

Speaker 1 (22:08):
Yeah, okay, so listen listen to this said guy on
the all new Monday Countdown podcast.

Speaker 14 (22:16):
Christy Noam, the head of the Department of Homeland Security,
and Tom Homan, the head of ICE, must be arrested
immediately for contempt of court. They are defying court orders
to return mister Abrego Garcia from captivity and torture in
El Salvador, and they and Trump are on the verge
of being in contemptive court of the Supreme Court. As

(22:39):
Trump begins to indicate he will not abide by its
rulings about returning Abrego to this country, it is time
to teach the Trump administration a lesson.

Speaker 1 (22:51):
Okay, So he's irrelevant and full of shit.

Speaker 5 (22:55):
Well, you got a guy who looks like he's in
a straight jacket. Yeah, they look like either them straight.

Speaker 1 (23:02):
You got red shoes on too, so Jesus, wow, he
should be in a jumpsuit. Okay, what's happening in California
with their freaking medical shit?

Speaker 6 (23:13):
Butter?

Speaker 2 (23:14):
Gavin Newsom says the state short on funds for its
medicaid program known as Medical The state expanded the program
to cover undocumented immigrants. Governor asked lawmakers to approve another
two point eight billion dollars in loans on top of
a three point four billion dollar loan issued last week.
So California now making up a six point two billion

(23:35):
dollar shortfall in medical funds. The money meant to keep
the program properly funded through June.

Speaker 15 (23:42):
The realities are the realities. You have to balance budgets.
We balance our budget revenues holding up. I don't see
anything significant along the lines of what some have asserted,
but I do see the need to make adjustments and
changes broadly in the Medicaid system.

Speaker 2 (23:58):
Meantime, Republicans blame me Democrats for creating financial insecurity with
the medical program. They say undocumented people should not be covered.

Speaker 1 (24:10):
Okay, so that guy's full of shit. So I got
I gotta tell you. When I was in Sacramento a
little while back, the people were telling me that if
the youngsters don't have one hundred thousand dollars cash, they
can't buy even think about buying a house. I mean,
it's it's insane. It's probably more so. Now, Hey, so Shapiro,

(24:34):
you know, to you check his Instagram, it's a disaster here.
I just want to show you this more importantly, go
to Josh Shapiro fraud dot gum. But this is him
on Instagram. What am I doing.

Speaker 5 (24:51):
Anymore?

Speaker 7 (24:51):
He could have been in the Goo Goo dolls, but
he chose public service as a state representative.

Speaker 1 (24:57):
But in the club we all fam And then again
could I say that?

Speaker 5 (25:02):
So?

Speaker 1 (25:10):
Yeah? So take I mean, you know, this guy's a disaster. Wow?
All right, so I want to go, I mean, this
is great. Yeah, nobody, nobody voted for him, but Alex
Zorros voted for him. Right with there's money? Okay? So, uh, Greg,

(25:33):
I wanted to ask you about this gun porn. You're
cutting trees down in Tennessee, right, aren't you?

Speaker 3 (25:39):
Yeah, at least once a week.

Speaker 1 (25:41):
Okay, So do you do you use an axe or saw?

Speaker 3 (25:45):
I use a chainsaw.

Speaker 1 (25:47):
Okay, so why don't you try this?

Speaker 16 (25:50):
Okay, how that transit? I don't think every time he

(26:45):
squeeze the triggers fifty cents right there?

Speaker 3 (26:49):
Come on, I mean you could do that though, right,
you could do that. But like I said, I mean,
ammunition is expensive now.

Speaker 1 (26:59):
Yeah, you, yes, exactly, especially especially that amis Yeah, I'd
be happy to use the twelve gate slugs.

Speaker 3 (27:08):
It's a big hunk of lead.

Speaker 1 (27:10):
Yeah. Okay, So let me just run this Epstein victim
thing because I'd like to see the freaking list, you know. Anyway,
we know one person that's on it.

Speaker 6 (27:26):
I was so young, giland woke me up in the
morning and said, you're going to meet a prince today.
I didn't know at that point that I was going
to be trafficked to that prince. And then that night
Prince Andrew came to her house in London and we
went out. It's a club tramp. Prince Andrew got me alcohol.

(27:47):
It was in the VIP section. It was I'm pretty
sure it was vodka. Prince Andrew's like, let's dance together,
and I was like okay.

Speaker 17 (27:54):
And and we leave club tramp and I hop in
the car with Gilan and Jeffrey and giland said he's
coming back to the house.

Speaker 6 (28:07):
And I want you to do for him what you
do for Epstein. I just couldn't believe it. I couldn't
believe that even Royalty were involved.

Speaker 1 (28:17):
Okay, let's see the list, right, Club Tramp, Jake.

Speaker 5 (28:26):
Club Tramp. The club was called Cramp.

Speaker 18 (28:30):
Yeah, oh man, Okay, So when is that list coming out?

Speaker 1 (28:36):
I mean, I don't know. I want to see it, though,
I think we might know some people that are on
the list. Anyway, So I had a rant about the
New York State Bar Association and I just want to,
you know, address it again because okay, we got a

(28:58):
complaint from a listener. The complaint was to the New
York State Bar Association, wherein it's alleged that a member
of the New York Bar Association was involved in the
following gregious activities, inadequate investigation, misrepresentation of allegations, negative representations

(29:25):
in case notes, inappropriate conduct and pressure, impact on visitation,
concerns for child's wellbeing, lack of follow up on, lack
of support, a variety of things, in addition to what
I read off three weeks ago. So you know, If

(29:49):
the attorney is involved in that kind of stuff, you know,
what is the New York State Bar Association going to
do about it?

Speaker 5 (29:57):
Look at the New York Attorney General.

Speaker 1 (30:01):
Yeah, speaking of that of attorney generals. What's the story
with Letitia James.

Speaker 4 (30:11):
While she's out going after Trump for miss what was
that that that he evaluated his property incorrectly even though
the bank said it was Well, she's worse.

Speaker 5 (30:22):
Than ilhin Omar.

Speaker 1 (30:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (30:25):
She has her dad as her husband allegedly on a
mortgage application, so she's committee mortgage fraud, you know, to
do something with her income. And she's making a house
in Virginia allegedly her personal residence while she's the.

Speaker 5 (30:44):
Attorney General of New York.

Speaker 4 (30:47):
So if the documents are correct, and they should be
easily to obtain, she should be prosecuted.

Speaker 1 (30:56):
Yes, Greg got wrong.

Speaker 4 (31:01):
Wire fraud, mortgage fraud. She's a fraud. And she said
no one's above the law. Didn't she didn't she say that, No,
no one's above the law.

Speaker 1 (31:10):
Yeah, it's totally appalling. The whole thing is appalling anyway.
So hey, Bill, can you check to see if we're
on on up live on LinkedIn because I'm getting a
bunch of messages relative to that. So but if you're

(31:30):
able to hear us, uh, we're just we're back up
on Twitter. There was some kind of bizarre glitch on
the stream yard. Okay, so all all destinations have been added. Okay, great,
all right, So remember we had Jennifer Finnerty Infinity on

(31:52):
her husband is wrongfully is being wrongfully prosecuted in Boston
by a disgraced US attorney for political points. So, h Bill,
can you bring up the Yeah, Jennifer, how you doing?

(32:16):
You're muted?

Speaker 13 (32:24):
Sorry about that?

Speaker 1 (32:28):
All right, great to see you again. That's great. Hey,
So you know this is in a long line of
hideous prosecutions that are you know, appalling political points, and
you've been kind enough to be with us before and
explain that. But for those that are listening to us

(32:51):
on Abu Dhabi, can you please reiterate what the hell
excuse my friends is going on with his case because
it's hidious.

Speaker 13 (33:02):
It is hidious.

Speaker 19 (33:03):
So on July twenty seventh of twenty eighteen, my husband
went in for a normal shift. He was the overnight
officer in charge called the OC Officer in charge, which
is usually maranned by two lieutenants, but that night lieutenants
called in, so my husband was the one in that position.

Speaker 13 (33:25):
An officer in.

Speaker 19 (33:29):
That was out on patrol had used force on a
homeless gentleman on a train and asked the guy to
leave and he wouldn't, and use force to try to
get him out of the station. Once out of the station,
I believe the homeless man got loose from the MBTA
Massachusetts Transit Authority police officer who had used the force

(33:52):
and ran to some civilian and told him, can you
please call Boston PD. I was just assaulted by this
police officer. So then Boston is called and was taking
the report from the homeless gentleman, and then over the radio,
the MBTA police.

Speaker 13 (34:12):
Officer heard that they had this guy, so he readed it.

Speaker 19 (34:15):
So oh, I was looking for him and came back
and the Boston police officer took the other the MBTA's
officer's story instead of believing the homeless gentleman, and so
handed off the man too. The MBTA officer they come
to the station and he is writing the report for

(34:37):
the force that he used, and my husband had seen
a short clip maybe a minute tops of the video
and saw that the force was not justified and said,
if you're using force, you need to have a good
detailed report kind of.

Speaker 13 (34:55):
Gave him a guidelines.

Speaker 11 (34:57):
The t has.

Speaker 19 (35:00):
A guideline for what should be in a report if
you're using force, and the patrolman's report did not have that.

Speaker 13 (35:08):
So my husband told him, you need to add that.

Speaker 19 (35:10):
And my husband wasn't even the direct supervisor of this patrolman.
The direct supervisor said, oh, nope, I'm going back out
on the road. You take care of it. And so
my husband was left to help.

Speaker 13 (35:26):
And when the community came in in.

Speaker 19 (35:29):
The morning, my husband was the first one to alert
them that there was unjustified use to force and that
this was not a good arrest. But instead of going
into the room where at this point that other sergeant
had come back and was working with the patrolman on
the report, instead of going into that room where they
were writing the report to talk.

Speaker 13 (35:50):
With them, he went into his office where he could see.

Speaker 19 (35:53):
A live time the police report being written on the
computer and just watched it be written there and not
you know, didn't intervene at all. The homeless gentleman was
really concerned about, you know, losing evidence video that would
be in the t station. My husband treated him very kindly,

(36:13):
with dignity in respect and told him no, not to worry,
this is what you need to do. So after that,
you know, my husband came home and to shift, thought
everything would be okay. He works for forty five days
about he was went in like.

Speaker 13 (36:32):
Normal for his shifts on day forty five.

Speaker 19 (36:36):
The videos of that are the recordings of the booking
area and self erase, so on day forty five there
are no longer any videos, and then my husband is
put out onto paid leave. He had actually worked. September
seventh was his last day in and there was a

(36:58):
train versus Pedestra an accident and the deputy not actually
the superintendent was actually at the scene and never talked
to my husband, didn't.

Speaker 13 (37:10):
Like mention anything. And then on the night of the.

Speaker 19 (37:13):
Tenth, which would have been my husband's day to go
back in for his shift, four hours before a shift,
they told him not to come back in and to
return to work on the eleventh with all of your
stuff to were handed in.

Speaker 13 (37:27):
So then we had a three year, ten month battle
with court.

Speaker 19 (37:34):
The seros back DA at the time was Rachel Rollins,
and on the eve of trial. The report that my
husband's lawyer had been asking for for almost four years
and we were told it didn't exist, suddenly appears and
exonerates my husband and they told him it was a

(37:55):
software update, and that's how we found the.

Speaker 13 (37:59):
Original report, although in another case.

Speaker 19 (38:02):
They had said, oh, we can go back and look
at all of old police reports, so like you know,
their stories are never street.

Speaker 13 (38:10):
So my husband was cleared of all wrongdoing. They did
what was called the nol Pross and we thought, okay,
we can go on with our lives. Finally close this chapter.

Speaker 19 (38:23):
And at this point they should have them put my
husband onto back onto paid.

Speaker 13 (38:31):
You know, paid there, because then they were trying to
fire him.

Speaker 19 (38:35):
After this they said, okay, well you know, yes you
were cleared here, but they were going through their kangaroo
court as we call it, to fire him, and they
should have started to pay him immediately after.

Speaker 13 (38:50):
I think our no Pross hearing.

Speaker 19 (38:53):
Was on October like fourteenth, and the seventeenth is when
he should have been starting to be paid again, but
they didn't pay him until the end of November.

Speaker 13 (39:02):
So for a year they paid him and then.

Speaker 19 (39:07):
We find that there's a grand jury at the federal
level taking place. We thought that it was on command
staff because they are corrupt and dirty, and so we thought, okay,
well we find out it's on us. So in July
we found out that my husband was the target of

(39:29):
the federal investigation that was going on, and we had
at that point asked for self surrender so that the
arrest did not happen in front of my young children
there were five and eight at the time. The prosecutor said, no,
we arrest everybody, and the command staff likes to have
a show and embarrass you. So on August thirty, first

(39:53):
of twenty three, on the first day of kindergarten for
my daughter, the FBI was out front.

Speaker 13 (39:59):
Of my house. It was like something out of a movie.
I am a teacher myself.

Speaker 19 (40:02):
It's making my coffee, you know, first surprising, the third
day of school, and I'm making my coffee and I
hear John, what is that? I look outside and these
all these cars flying down our street, and so I
yelled up to my husband.

Speaker 13 (40:18):
He hadn't know if it ready.

Speaker 19 (40:19):
He knew that they were coming because they wouldn't allow
a self surrender. So I yelled up to him, they're here.
So he said, go out and let them know that
I will be right out. I went out, but the
FEDS would not allow me back in to be with.

Speaker 13 (40:32):
My young girl.

Speaker 19 (40:33):
So my girls are inside crying and screaming because they're scared.
My husband is trying to get ready to get outside,
while they actually have him on the phone as well,
so they knew he was coming out. They had Feds
in my neighbor's backyard and in their driveway and my
driveway in case my husband wanted to jump the four
foot fence that we.

Speaker 13 (40:50):
Have in our backyard. The front of my house was
all police cars.

Speaker 19 (40:56):
Our town police were there as well, with rifles were out.
My daughter, who was eight at the time, looked out
the window and saw this. My younger one only saw
a little bit of it, but my oldest one saw everything.
And I had asked I please go inside. My babies
are inside like not until he comes out. And so

(41:21):
my husband comes out, and once he was in cuffs,
I was allowed to go back inside, and my daughters
were like complete shock. They're crying, like yelling for me,
even though I'm standing right in front of them. The
FBI they're also supposed to have I believe body cameras.
They were not wearing body cameras that day. They had
a meeting the night before at our police station to

(41:43):
let them know that they were I think it was
called a.

Speaker 13 (41:48):
High level warrant.

Speaker 19 (41:51):
And they didn't tell the chief who they were coming
for and how they told the chief. The chief is
very supportive of our family and would now never have
allowed what had happened. And they were casing our neighborhood
the day before. There was a car seven in the
morning watching us, and we have a neighborhood Facebook page.

(42:11):
So one of the neighbors said, I called the police
on this strange car in the neighborhood. I was told
it was someone working for a realtor, but it was
seven in the morning. No one is working for a
realtor seven in the morning. So my husband said, I
bet you it was the Feds. And sure enough, that
car was out front of our house that day, and
it was something like you'll never forget that, you know,

(42:35):
just the amount of police presence, for you would have
thought that some of my neighbors actually thought that my
husband had murdered me, because we live in a pretty
large neighborhood and only our direct neighbors knew what was
going on, but some of the other neighbors they were
texting me like a U okay because they didn't. That's

(42:56):
how ridiculous the amount of police presence was.

Speaker 13 (43:00):
And it's all basically.

Speaker 19 (43:02):
Rachel Rollins, who was the Suffolk County DA at the
time of my husband's first trial through the state, then
became the US Attorney under Biden for the state of Massachusetts,
and she then had to resign in disgrace because she
was caught interfering in the political campaign of the Suffolk

(43:24):
County DA that was taking over for her. So there
was Royo and Hayden. Kevin Hayden was the one that won,
but Al Royo was in the Tea's pocket and Rachel
Rollin's pocket, so they were upset that Kevin Hayden won.

Speaker 13 (43:38):
And after.

Speaker 19 (43:42):
My husband was cleared, they actually the superintendent I believe
to the news that I had released and said that
they don't agree with it. That they basically they felt
that Kevin Hayden only cleared my husband to get back
at the tea because of reached Rollins and not because
of all of the evidence that we've mounds of evidence

(44:04):
that showed that my husband is innocent. So for seven
years we have been Friday this. My youngest was eight
months old when this started to just just turned seven.

Speaker 1 (44:14):
That's brutal. I mean we had a detective on from
jaquer Was that somewhere in Arizona, right, wasn't a Luna
detective Luna where the bureau knuckleheads conducted a search warrant?

(44:36):
I think at five in the morning and we had
remember we had the video. Now when they came to
get your husband.

Speaker 5 (44:47):
What time was that?

Speaker 13 (44:48):
Six am? Six oh five? I think I went out
and I always like, thank goodness, I didn't hit the
snooze by. You know, it's early in the year, trying
to get to work early, because.

Speaker 19 (44:59):
Had I had said, had we not answered the door,
they would have broken the door down, gone walk to
talkie come out and.

Speaker 13 (45:09):
Broken down our door. So then I have to call
my mom just exactly yeah, and my mom had to
come and help me get my daughters ready for school.
We try to keep their lives as normal as possible
through all of this.

Speaker 1 (45:25):
So then I kids to get on the bus to
go to school.

Speaker 13 (45:29):
My mom put them on and I so my mom came,
we helped, we calm them down. The bus comes at
eight thirties.

Speaker 19 (45:35):
We had a little bit of time to get them settled,
and then I had to go to each school. I
went to my kindergartener school and let them know that
she is on the bus. But there wasn't a rest
in our house this morning, and then I had to call.
I called my other daughter's school on my way into

(45:56):
Boston to the courthouse to.

Speaker 13 (46:00):
Meet up with my husband and let them know what happened.

Speaker 1 (46:03):
Just I mean, these yourros, check, these yourros.

Speaker 18 (46:08):
Uh, they don't realize how they miss that their their
reports are missing, and then they're they're found, or if
somebody goes to the bathroom and suddenly they find a
report laying on the ground, you know, I.

Speaker 5 (46:24):
Mean, you know what what pisses me off.

Speaker 4 (46:28):
You know, we always talk about the lower level guys
and how it's only the command staff, and we should
say the people at the lower level they are only
following orders. I totally disagree with all of that nonsense.
Here you have a young lady and a family with children.
The husband is offering to even though there's I don't

(46:50):
want to curse, even though this is bogus bs. He's
offering a self surrender and we know where they're going
to come. At six am, they break that door down.
Something goes wrong, anything can go wrong. Now you got
someone who's hurt your daughter, you, your husband, when you could
have just walked in and turned themselves in. This is
ridiculous that that they wanted to have this quote unquote

(47:13):
show where you got your neighbors worried about are you
hurt and.

Speaker 5 (47:18):
All this other kind of this is this is what
Lendy follow those orders because it's illegal.

Speaker 1 (47:24):
Yeah, so Lendy LUSA is just curious. Did they remove
all firearms from your house during this nightmare?

Speaker 19 (47:31):
They did not that day, but we did have to
bring them. We transferred them over to my parents. And
I have a license to carry as well and had
one a firearm in the house.

Speaker 13 (47:46):
So it's like God forbid, I needed, you know, if
my husband wasn't Mark.

Speaker 1 (47:50):
So let me understand this correctly. They had a meeting
the night prior at your at your husband's police department, course.

Speaker 13 (48:01):
At the police department in our town.

Speaker 1 (48:04):
What is the name of that town, Rutland.

Speaker 13 (48:06):
It's right outside of Wistern, Massachusetsa.

Speaker 1 (48:08):
It's a Rutland Police department. Yep, they had the meeting.
They had the meeting, and nobody said shit, excuse my French. Okay,
nobody said shit about traumatizing the children at the house Nicholas.
So they might have done this. They could have done
this way after eight thirty.

Speaker 19 (48:29):
Correct, and that they knew that because they were watching
the neighborhood, so they know what time I left for work.
And in our town, kindergarten starts the day after everybody else.

Speaker 13 (48:43):
So my daughter was in third grade at a new
school at the time, so her first day was on
the thirtieth, and then kindergarten would start on the thirty first.

Speaker 19 (48:54):
But our chief is awesome, super supportive, and his wife
is actually a kindergarten teacher at the school that my
daughter is in, and she had messg She's like, I
will keep an eye on your daughter, don't worry. I
am in the classroom next door. So we have the
support of our town officers.

Speaker 13 (49:13):
And I believe.

Speaker 19 (49:14):
They were even telling the Feds to allow me back
inside to be with the girls, and the Feds would
not do it.

Speaker 13 (49:21):
And holiway, oh sorry, go ahead, this is.

Speaker 1 (49:27):
Your husband, right, yes, okay, and you're two little girls yep, okay.
And then he has an older daughter.

Speaker 13 (49:36):
Correct, she'll be twenty this month.

Speaker 4 (49:39):
Oh okay, she had surrender. This was all unnecessary. It's
a waste money. It's more dangerous. You know what do
you hear Tom Holman always saying, hey, let us pick
him up in your jails. We don't go in your neighborhood.
Anybody can get hurt. This is crazy. They could be fine,
and it scared.

Speaker 5 (49:59):
The little old lady. Have they got their lights and ceremonies.

Speaker 4 (50:01):
This is just If I have somebody who wants to
turn himself in and I let him know they got
the war that turn themselves in. And if they don't,
if your husband didn't didn't go through all this, be it.

Speaker 3 (50:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 19 (50:18):
I see the comment unnecessary drama, absolutely, and our command
staff will the coming stuff with. My husband's former department
loves the media. They would feed stories to the news.
And actually that's how we found out my husband was
indicted the first time in the state case.

Speaker 13 (50:35):
I was coming home after school. I had a staff meeting,
and my mom calls me and she said, Dave is
on the news, And I said, and he's been indicted.

Speaker 19 (50:44):
His department never even told him that he was being indicted,
so that I had to call my husband, who was
home making dinner, and so I'm like, you're on the news.
He's like, am I being an indicted? I said, you are?
And on the way into Boston. It takes like about
an hour to get to Boston from our house. So
my husband was talking to the Feds in the car.

(51:06):
We find out the Feds didn't even investigate this.

Speaker 13 (51:09):
They just took the.

Speaker 19 (51:11):
Investigation that the superintendent did, who was trying to cover,
you know, things up, They took their investigation.

Speaker 13 (51:19):
They didn't even invest investigate this.

Speaker 1 (51:23):
Jesus, what an exercise in show voting. I mean, the
same thing applies to the whole thing is appalling. I
mean Detective Luna, who is you know, the subject of
a search, warn't an arrest at five point thirty in

(51:44):
the morning, that's on his ring camera that we showed before.
And then you've got Brad Luncer, who he's been subject
to the same bullshit you know Zorro's playbook.

Speaker 4 (51:59):
Well, John, I don't know if you saw speaking of
Lady Lunchford, did you see the recent video of the
guy being tased and stealing the police car and all
that other kind of stuffy you know, you know they
put you through this kind of not I'm sorry, Jennifer,
this is this really gets me going because so many
things can go wrong when you do this kind of stuff.

(52:21):
And obviously I wouldn't be able to call your husband
and say, hey, we're serving this warning at this time,
because then I would be arrested because I can't do that. Yeah,
and the fact that we knew that he was going
to be charged and he's saying, hey, guys, can I
just turn myself in because I got two young ladies
in the house and a wife, and we don't want
them traumatized the eyes of me saying hey, no, we

(52:43):
want to kick your darn door in and traumatize your family.
You know, there's a time and the place to do
those type of wars, because I have done those type
of wars, depend on who I'm going after you, but
this was not that time.

Speaker 1 (52:55):
Yeah, So, Lindy lud they can't figure out why recruitment
is at an all time Well, yeah, no, ship, you
wonder why we are all retired? You know what I'm saying,
because yeah, exactly exactly. So, Jennifer, I've talked to a
lot of Boston cops that I trust, and without saying

(53:21):
the name of your attorneys, they are the tip top
of attorneys for this kind of case.

Speaker 13 (53:29):
And that's why we went with them.

Speaker 19 (53:31):
And lawyers are very expensive, so we are, you know,
scraping by. You know, a couple of months ago, I
got paid and went on a big grocery shopping.

Speaker 13 (53:44):
A trip, and my daughter came home. She's like the
food in the fridge.

Speaker 1 (53:48):
And oh my god, yeah.

Speaker 19 (53:50):
Food refrigerated, but like not an abundance of it usually
and uh so, like you know, they had a lot
of choices that day. They just you know, we try
to make our their lives as normal as possible, but
you know, little things like that saying, okay, well we
can't get today because you know, we've we've had to
take my husband's retirement out just so we could pay
our house so we didn't lose our house, our cars.

(54:13):
Like I said, I'm a teacher. I've gone through four
principles through all of this. Why I've had to tell
each principle our story.

Speaker 1 (54:22):
Yeah, okay, So you guys have a gift send go
for your legal defense fund. So if you're listening to
this and you realize that it's an appalling miscarriage of justice.
There's no question about it. You know, you really need
to go to that gifsend go uh if you type

(54:46):
in if you just google gifsend go Dave finnerty Ye,
We'll come to this. So, I mean, those little girls
and the older U young lady and Jennifer and Dave
are all suffering as a result of some kind of

(55:08):
bullshit political you know, to make a political point, which
is ridiculous. So you know, if you realize that that's wrong,
you've got to you know, you've got to go to
that gift send.

Speaker 19 (55:24):
God couldn't bring the college because he can't leave the country.
She goes to college in England, so you know, your
kids go to college, and he wasn't able.

Speaker 13 (55:35):
To take her because he can't leave the country.

Speaker 1 (55:40):
Unbelievable, just unbelievable. I mean, you know, and they didn't
investigate the there was no federal investigation. They only took
what the superintendent told them. And the superintendent is he
one of the guys pictured with the UH.

Speaker 19 (55:58):
But the original wrong all the chief and actually no,
they were the only police department in the state of
Massachusetts that supported Rachel Rollins.

Speaker 13 (56:10):
And no other police department did, and that just shows
you how terrible she is.

Speaker 19 (56:19):
But the transit police, they were feeding Rachel Rollins police
things to kind of boost her up. And there have
been other police activity from transit police and nothing happens.
Someone who had hit a cruiser while driving drunk from

(56:40):
another department, but nothing happened to them.

Speaker 1 (56:43):
Jeez, you know, it's an exercise in the superintendent telling
the US attorney, I got a case for you that
will be good. Yep, two leftists. All right, Hey, look
we have to take a break, but Jennifer, if you
can come right back, definitely. We have a couple things,
and I know that you're going to try to get
a little bit for information from your husband. And also

(57:06):
we have another special guest, Jennifer Gattz after the break,
so stick with us. Okay, Okay, Hey, so during break,
we showed a burner commercial, right so there tomorrow more

(57:29):
tomorrow is big news from Berna. They came out with
a compound, so you might want to look for that anyway. Okay,
So there's a couple more articles I wanted to show
Bill I'd like to show. Okay, we showed the gifts

(57:52):
and go but I'd also like to there's a rodful
prosecution one number six. Can we show that? Okay? Yeah,
Former Transit Police sergeant David Finnerty accused of filing false
assault reports in twenty eighteen. Jesus, yeah, nothing to do

(58:16):
with it. What the hell are you doing, Jennifer Finnerty again?
Can you put the case one up? Okay? Former Transit
police sergeant accused of falsifying report to cover up assault.
That's bullshit. Cop still faces trial despite hypocrisy of disgraced

(58:37):
Zorro's backed prosecutor. Now that is the headline. You want
to pay attention to Bill Show that again, will you okay,
listen to me. Cop still faces trial despite hypocrisy of
disgraced Zorro's backed prosecutor. And you know that where that's from,

(59:00):
It's from Alpha News is calling on quite a few times.
And she's very familiar with this pattern, right take.

Speaker 5 (59:13):
Well, she knows they're lying just to get a book plug.
They're lying.

Speaker 1 (59:18):
Oh my god? What uh? As it pertains to Liz
calling uh you know she was sued by that uh
uh the training officer at Minneapolio. What is the Minneapolis
Police Department? And it turns out that the training officer
is also full of shit. So you know, truth detection

(59:40):
at Alpha News. So again, you know, this is an
exercise in a zorro's installed uh prosecutor attempting to make
political appoints. So you know, and the the little girls

(01:00:01):
and the family and the younger daughter are suffering as
a result of that, and that's bullshit.

Speaker 5 (01:00:15):
So that's their point.

Speaker 4 (01:00:17):
It look like I said, though, John, we got a
case in Philadelphia with Crasner did the exact same thing
to a company's still going through it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:23):
Jesus, can't you people wake up and realize that they
have the same playbook and they're doing the same damn
thing to law enforcement across the country.

Speaker 4 (01:00:31):
Well, you look at you got Tomorrow, you got don't
you got the Melindazer it's tomorrow.

Speaker 5 (01:00:35):
Yeah, they're a new thing.

Speaker 4 (01:00:36):
And Larry went out there with gas go on to
get that story straight right before Gas gone got kicked
out office. It's the same playbook. They're all doing the
same thing. It's a racketeering outfit. They are nationwide. They
need to be they need to be prosecuted federally, and
they all need to get marched. They need to get
that perk walk that they wanted your husband to go through, Jennifer, and.

Speaker 19 (01:01:00):
Then the disciplinary hearing through his department after he was cleared.
The hearing officer that heard the the case was actually
different than the one that was originally supposed to hear it.

Speaker 13 (01:01:16):
The one that ended up being the hearing officer was.

Speaker 19 (01:01:20):
The deputy General counsel for Actually, that's right, the campaign
treasure for Rachel Rollins.

Speaker 13 (01:01:30):
So it's all connected. Did they all uh.

Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
Oh my god, Well let me ask you this. We
should complete the circle, Jake. I mean, did she do
any fund raising at you know, African American.

Speaker 5 (01:01:50):
I guarantee you she did.

Speaker 1 (01:01:52):
Oh you know it, guarantee you know it. Oh my god.

Speaker 5 (01:01:57):
That's part.

Speaker 1 (01:02:00):
But it's it's it's not just a playbook. It's a
blatant attack.

Speaker 4 (01:02:07):
Yes, what are we gonna do about it? I mean,
they ruining people lives intentionally. We know what they're doing,
we know how we put it. You know, you got
these judges like Bolsburg. Now, I mean, and I just
noticed when I saw your gifts and go Jen, I'm
thinking about this guy who stabbed and greg Us on

(01:02:29):
your way to Texas. The murderer in Texas who stabs
the other guy he has a half a million dollars
and go fund me that they go for a new
car in a house.

Speaker 13 (01:02:42):
Were just talking about actually, like.

Speaker 1 (01:02:46):
Yep, oh my god. So you know you're this uh miscarriage,
significant miscarriage of justice is being overshadowed by this Karen case,
right it is.

Speaker 13 (01:03:00):
And read murder case.

Speaker 1 (01:03:01):
Yes, she is.

Speaker 19 (01:03:03):
She's accused of killing her police officer boyfriend by backing
up into him.

Speaker 13 (01:03:10):
On a snowy day, but.

Speaker 19 (01:03:14):
She says she didn't do it, and there was a
whole bunch of people in the house, police officers from Canton,
and so they it was a hung jury in her
first trial. They finished jury selection yesterday and they'll start
the second trial Tuesday for her. But everybody is and

(01:03:34):
we support her as well, but it's you know, we're
all like playing the same game. We're all trying to
save our own lives and we should work together. But
no one around here is interested in any other case, unfortunately.
But the Karen Karen Reid case has been one local

(01:03:55):
channel that I've gone on as well that has gotten
our story out there.

Speaker 13 (01:04:00):
But other than that, I've reached out to people and.

Speaker 19 (01:04:02):
Nobody replies back or they're just interested in that case.

Speaker 1 (01:04:07):
Is crazy, that's ridiculous. I mean, you're putting the problem is,
you know, your exposure as a federal law enforcement agent
or a state officer or a local officer as a
result of this dragging on. Everybody knows it's bullshit. Your

(01:04:28):
exposure is significant. You're not going to take action that
you would normally take because you're second guessing the district
attorney or the federal presky. It just bullshit.

Speaker 13 (01:04:41):
And we've won all of the cases you on.

Speaker 19 (01:04:44):
The state case, there was a civil lawsuit with the
homeless gentleman. He sued the MBTA and the officers involved.
My husband was the only one that didn't have to
pay this gentleman.

Speaker 13 (01:05:00):
Then we had our back pay hearing.

Speaker 19 (01:05:02):
They owe my husband forty four months of back pay
because he was put out on the Perry law, which
means that if you are not found guilty or you.

Speaker 13 (01:05:14):
Are convicted of a crime, you get your back pay.
And we won that.

Speaker 19 (01:05:20):
We found out the day after Thanksgiving, and then two
days before Christmas we found out that Tea is appealing it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:27):
Oh my god, I mean it just I mean, you know,
just wake up. I mean, you know, if you're in Boston,
you got to wake up to this. This is bullshit.
This is a complete miscarriage of justice, you know. And
Gen's been kind enough to be with us repeatedly to explain.

(01:05:50):
And it's awesome that you were on Liz Calling.

Speaker 19 (01:05:56):
I've actually was able to get in touch with it.
I've reached out to Lacy Lansford.

Speaker 13 (01:06:01):
Through all of this.

Speaker 19 (01:06:02):
It's been a lonely thing. We feel like we've been
fighting this by ourselves. You know, people that you thought
were your friends, especially my husband. You thought you got
all these friends on the department, and there's maybe five
that he talks to all the time.

Speaker 13 (01:06:15):
People are afraid.

Speaker 19 (01:06:16):
They don't want the target on their back if command
staff knows that they're talking to my husband, because there
is a clause in their I guess contract that you
cannot talk with support anybody that has been charged with
a crime. The union doesn't back us because they're afraid

(01:06:38):
because the command staff can do whatever they want and
nothing happens to them, so that they don't want the
targets on their back.

Speaker 1 (01:06:44):
What's the story with the Legal Defense Fund?

Speaker 19 (01:06:51):
They actually had reached out to my husband I've been
going back and forth and he actually got an email today.

Speaker 1 (01:06:56):
From them, Thank god. Man. I mean, they've been blessed
in Brad Luncher's case out they need to get on yours.
I mean, and I know they're awesome, and I'm sure
they're up to their ass and both shit prosecutions of law,

(01:07:17):
but you know it's coming to an head ahead here
and they need to you know. I think Greg had
a really good summation of what this case is a
I don't know whether Greg, if you want to if
you want to mention that or touch on it at all,
but I think you're right on the money.

Speaker 3 (01:07:41):
Yeah, I don't think they know what to do with it.
I think it's just in a limbo. I mean, it's
a big shit sandwich, is what we would call it.
I sit here, listen to you. I'm not saying a
whole lot, because it's it's just mind boggling to me
how a police department can fucking divorce itself from its
police officers. And this guy's a mid level manager. You

(01:08:02):
have layers of management above him who are also culpable,
and this should have all been taken care of in house.
I mean, I don't know that Jake's been internal affairs.
I've done internal affairs investigations myself. This doesn't even doesn't
make any sense. And then for this former DA to
become a US attorney and you just I heard you

(01:08:25):
say that they just gave the old investigation to the FBI.
I've never even heard of that happening. I mean, that's
a travesty. And as far as the warrants go, I
mean I ran warrants. I did search in the restaurants
for five years in the District of Columbia, a national
capital region. For a federal warrant, a federal judge actually

(01:08:46):
says what he'll allow to be served. So you told me,
which the word that you were saying was high risk,
they were going to serve a high risk warrant on
your husband. There would have been a criteria to establish
that he's high risk. We're talking about fraudulent documents. We're
not about anything high risk here. And if I was

(01:09:10):
going to serve that warrant myself, I would have actually
called your husband, say hey, can you show up at
the Boston Metro Friends at police UH station somewhere, and
then we would have did it there and have never
been around the family. Yeah, I don't mean this is
just all like in a bizarre world. But but in

(01:09:31):
our time, it wouldn't have happened this way for sure.

Speaker 4 (01:09:34):
Yeah, and me and me and Greg didn't research our answer.
This common sense we scenes make our answer sounds similar.

Speaker 3 (01:09:45):
It sounds like you're talking about a police blotter or
a blog. The of it's like a a significant activities
report for the night.

Speaker 5 (01:09:55):
Is that?

Speaker 3 (01:09:56):
Is that what we're talking about?

Speaker 19 (01:09:57):
It was, well, the his federal charges are filing a
false report and aiding and a betting filing a false report.
But the report that they're using is just the overnight
summary report, which is not a police report. So at
the end of a shift instead of looking through all
of the police reports, but then I think there's a

(01:10:18):
summary that the officer in charge has to do. So
that is what they're using as the police report, which
is never a police report for anything else, but for
this case, they're making it a police report.

Speaker 1 (01:10:33):
You know, you know, unless it's you know, some giant thing,
usually you try to write the report as soon as
your shift is over. Almost of course it's ongoing investigation
or whatever. I mean, this thing it should have. You know,

(01:10:53):
you're saying that it was written the following morning, right.

Speaker 13 (01:11:00):
The well's it was an overnight shift, so before.

Speaker 19 (01:11:03):
He leaves they have to write like their summary report.

Speaker 13 (01:11:09):
But my husband told the deputy chief in charge of.

Speaker 19 (01:11:12):
Eternal affairs about the arrest, and they actually had said
had my husband not told them.

Speaker 13 (01:11:18):
They never would have known of this.

Speaker 19 (01:11:22):
And they're using they're saying that my husband violated the
civil rights because he should have released the guy that
was in the homeless gentleman. But the command staff actually
held the homeless gentleman.

Speaker 13 (01:11:37):
Longer than my husband did. No, husband was like research,
making making sure he was.

Speaker 19 (01:11:44):
Right, you know, as you should, you do your due
diligence to make sure that you are reporting correctly. And
he was the one that told them and he's the
only one. And then the other two officers of patrolman
and the sergeant were given given immunity for uh speaking

(01:12:09):
against my husband.

Speaker 1 (01:12:11):
Yeah, so we have another comment, but uh, okay, but
they can offer a celebrity like O. J. Simpson, suspect
in a murder case to turn himself in. This is
a disgraceful period what they did to you, your husband
and the kids, it's appalling.

Speaker 13 (01:12:32):
It is.

Speaker 19 (01:12:35):
To like the like, why are you in the situation?
I'm like, you know, no one understands why. It goes
to show you that it's bs.

Speaker 1 (01:12:45):
Yeah. So, just to recap what Greg had communicated earlier,
you know, it's pretty obvious that the district attorney was
going to use this as a test case to see
if she could not only go after the the corporate
but to get those in charge as well. Although it

(01:13:06):
is a huge stretch from Greg's understanding of the facts
based on whatever the case seems to just to be
in limbo land would seems no one in prosecution is
the stomach to prosecute, and maybe that's what that's exactly
what you know your attorneys, like I mentioned before with

(01:13:31):
the Boston cops that I trust, that's the that's the deal.

Speaker 13 (01:13:38):
And everyone asks, you know, we get the question a lot,
do you think this is even going to go to trial?

Speaker 19 (01:13:43):
And my answer usually is unfortunately it is. We thought
with Trump taking office that there might have been a
chance that it wasn't going to go because he is,
you know, trying he has his executive Order against the
weaponization of the law enforcement, and we thought that maybe
we would not have to go through this.

Speaker 13 (01:14:03):
But it looks like we're moving forward.

Speaker 1 (01:14:06):
On May nineteenth, Okay, we just drew the charge.

Speaker 4 (01:14:13):
Just why to read stuff was going on and pay
and no one knows, you know, it just goes away, you.

Speaker 1 (01:14:23):
Know, Yeah, what do you know? I'm semi confused about
the back pay. I mean, did he he did get
paid back pay or he did not?

Speaker 13 (01:14:33):
He did not get paid back pay. He won.

Speaker 19 (01:14:36):
We had a back pay hearing and the judge decided
that my husband is entitled to his back pay. They
owe him forty four months. So on the day after
Thanksgiving we found out that he won that. And then
the tea waited till their last possible day too that

(01:14:57):
they had to appeal, and so they appear the two
days before Christmas, and their only argument is that my
husband could be convicted federally and so they so see
we were right not to pay him.

Speaker 13 (01:15:10):
Oh that's their only argument.

Speaker 1 (01:15:14):
Okay, So, Jenna, Jennifer, we really appreciate you taking the
time to be with us. You're in Boston or anywhere
in the country or on the planet for that matter,
and you know anything about this case. You know it's
bullshit and that you know they were trying to uh

(01:15:36):
have a prosecution for political purposes. So you know you
need to tell uh the entity in Boston, entities in
Boston that this is uh, you're not buying this, You're
not going for this. And the other thing is, I

(01:15:57):
don't understand why Dave's not. You know, Dave should be
back working. I know that the people that he's working
for was were after him, but they should be gone, right,
they should be. I mean, you know, if you can't
when you're on the street, you expected to just attorney
to cover for you, or the federal the assistant US

(01:16:20):
attorney or ever maybe and your bosses. But if they
don't have your back, how can you how can you
even operate? Right? And it's appalling any of those guys
on that it's the MBTA, right, correct, Yeah, any of

(01:16:42):
those guys, how can they feel feel comfortable about anything?

Speaker 19 (01:16:45):
Well, then my husband says like this, if my husband
is convicted, it changes policing, like you can. My husband
wasn't even he was miles away from the scene, wasn't there,
And he said, no, this can change police seeing not
for the better if he is convicted.

Speaker 1 (01:17:06):
Yeah, I mean the other thing is is that, you know,
the people making the decisions here allegedly they don't know
what the hell they're talking about. I mean if they
ever have they ever been in that position? Probably not,
probably not.

Speaker 3 (01:17:25):
Never over top of over top of your husband. Your
husband was a sergeant. There's a lieutenant. But who's above
the lieutenant.

Speaker 19 (01:17:33):
You have a captain, we have a deputy chief superintendent.
I don't know if there's captains on that department.

Speaker 13 (01:17:41):
There may be.

Speaker 3 (01:17:43):
There's a whole there's a whole layer up there, right,
I mean, you know, somebody's got to have enough.

Speaker 1 (01:17:51):
Excuse my French, but somebody's going to have the balls.
Like Jake, he's an example to say, hey, this is God.

Speaker 3 (01:18:00):
They in an accent mine though, I would imagine they
have their own legal representatives as well. They do NB
I T their bubble was it Metro Boston Transit Authority.
They probably have their own in house attorney as well
to review.

Speaker 1 (01:18:20):
Right, yep, what the hell is going on with the
FOP in Boston, the Fraternal Order of Police. What are
they doing?

Speaker 13 (01:18:31):
No, they have like nobody wants to do anything with that.

Speaker 19 (01:18:35):
They're just taking the superintendent's words that my husband has
committed this crime that he didn't commit.

Speaker 5 (01:18:43):
Well, it's like Greg said, what you have here.

Speaker 4 (01:18:46):
Your husband is working inside that night, and you got
this summary sheet, which is a list of everything that
went on during the course and last out your time.

Speaker 5 (01:18:55):
It might have been six things, maybe eight, and you.

Speaker 4 (01:18:58):
Got a little three lines four line summary sheet of
what happened. And they're using that document for someone to
go inside, and they made a federal case out of it,
just unheard of.

Speaker 19 (01:19:13):
Well's amazing too that they knew, Like on day forty five,
the videos erase, So there is no video of my
husband talking to the deputy chief and he came in
in the morning, So they wait till day forty five.

Speaker 13 (01:19:25):
Oh the video is not.

Speaker 4 (01:19:27):
There, which he's happening with evidence because they knew that
they couldn't do it beforehand, and they didn't have any
due diligence to try to save the evidence or to
make a copy of the recording because they knew it
was going to self delete.

Speaker 5 (01:19:43):
It was premeditated.

Speaker 1 (01:19:45):
Yeah, exactly, Jesus, these guys, I don't know, somebody's got
to get you know, comes their way exactly, the big way.

Speaker 5 (01:19:59):
Yeah, it usually does. The law works some mysterious ways
you know.

Speaker 1 (01:20:03):
Yeah exactly. So Hey, our other guest is, you know,
trying to resolve some audio issues. So we'll have her
on here as soon as you can go. Those audioish
just resolved. But you know, you have to be as
a normal regular citizen. You've got to be taken aback

(01:20:29):
by what the hell this case is about. I mean
the same thing with the Lunsford case. I mean, you know,
and then there have been cases just as an example,
I'm sure it's happened everywhere there's a Zoros, it's talled prosecutor.
But you know in Philadelphia, you know they remove certain

(01:20:52):
parts of the body.

Speaker 4 (01:20:53):
Gam yes, well, I mean George Sorels and his sons
would have they're running a criminal in the parts.

Speaker 5 (01:21:01):
They're running a racket.

Speaker 4 (01:21:02):
They got all these district attorneys and attorney generals and
whoever they got, and they are screwing with the law.
And the reason you can't go after because they on
this side of the law. Anybody else would be prosecuted
for what they're doing. I mean they just they literally
they kidnapped your.

Speaker 1 (01:21:19):
Husbands, Yeah exactly. You know, in addition to kidnapping him, uh,
traumatizing to children. Uh, it's a landmine for them.

Speaker 4 (01:21:37):
Who knows what kind of long lasting effect is going
to have little girls.

Speaker 5 (01:21:41):
We don't know.

Speaker 19 (01:21:44):
They know that we're going to trial. And my youngest,
who is I say, like the stronger one to all
of this. My oldest, she's afraid of police now. She
is only likes our chief because she knows him and
one other officer who worked in our town who was wonderful.

(01:22:06):
She's still friends with us. And besides that, she's afraid
anytime the sirens or cars go by slow on our street,
she's just afraid someone is coming back again. And then
my youngest now says, now that she knows that trial
is coming, are the police going to come to our

(01:22:27):
house again? Said, oh no, like we go to court
and no one's coming back to our house. But that's
the fear that the girls are going through now, is
that people are going to come back to our house.

Speaker 1 (01:22:40):
I mean, you know, you know Zora's installed prosecutors don't
give a ship, but it's a political point. They don't
give ah how many people they hurt. You know, it's appalling.

Speaker 5 (01:22:53):
They're evil.

Speaker 4 (01:22:54):
They're really evil people, and that means the or are
evil people because they had He's evil people to do
these evil things to families.

Speaker 1 (01:23:06):
Yeah, okay, so you're the weapons your husband allegedly had
to not have anymore. We're signed over to his father.

Speaker 13 (01:23:18):
To my dad.

Speaker 19 (01:23:20):
My parents lived not too far from us, so we
sign them over to my dad and he has them.

Speaker 13 (01:23:30):
Hopefully someday we can get them back.

Speaker 1 (01:23:32):
Yeah. Well, tragically, you know, Jake, myself and Greig lost
our weapons during a tragic boating accident, so we don't
have any weapons.

Speaker 4 (01:23:45):
I'm out my stuff to Greg and they they all
got washed away with.

Speaker 5 (01:23:49):
The web last week.

Speaker 19 (01:23:54):
Another amazing thing with this is the patrolman who has
created this mess.

Speaker 13 (01:23:59):
He was allowed to collect his retirement and he actually
there was a.

Speaker 19 (01:24:09):
It's like a lawsuit that about black officers were suing
because they weren't being promoted.

Speaker 13 (01:24:18):
So there was a a.

Speaker 19 (01:24:20):
Case where I fete what you call it a type
of case, A whole bunch of people go in on
class action. So the patrol man also, I believe he
got like thirty thousand dollars from that class action suit
as well as collecting his retirement his pension.

Speaker 1 (01:24:41):
You know, it's interesting because okay, in the LUNs for kids,
just as example, in the lunch work case. The chief
and the police department are behind correct, so you know
they're not publicizing that even though they had. I mean,

(01:25:06):
there's a lot of similarities here because they cleared Brad
for that officer invulsion on two different agencies. Did that
your case with Dave? It was no prost correct? And
then we discussed that because because it's a no prosse

(01:25:27):
they could take it federally correct. Yep, because it was,
it wouldn't be a double jeopardy deal correct. I wonder
what kind of conversations took place about that no pross.

Speaker 19 (01:25:43):
There is a mighty large document, I like many pages
that the DA wrote on why he could not move
forward with proscuting my husband for the no prosse. And
our lawyer said that that is the most detailed report
for no proces he's ever seen. I guess das don't

(01:26:06):
even need to give a report on why they're choosing
to no pross. And the DA in the staycase wrote
a very lengthy one and it said that it has
reached out to our lawyer as well as the Kevin Hayden,
the DA saying like, whatever you need, so they're on

(01:26:28):
our side. The Kevin Hayden, the Suffer County d A
does not agree with this federal case.

Speaker 1 (01:26:36):
Yeah, Jesus, if this case doesn't stink to high heaven,
I don't know what does you know? What I mean? Yeah,
it's got to be uh, you know, if you have
any common sense, you know it's full of shit. So

(01:26:59):
if you're in just in or again in the country
and can you know, lend support to this family that's
suffering from a miscarriage of justice, go to the gifts end,
go and just google. Can we Bill? Can we show
that one more time? The gifts end go for Davefinity

(01:27:23):
seven years. Yeah, for Foster reports Oh man, Okay, if
you can go to Dayfinity's legal defense fund via gives end,
go do it. Uh, you know, because they're suffering from
a miscarriage of justice. Absolutely, So okay, Jennifer, we really

(01:27:47):
appreciate you taking the time to be with us. You
can we have another Jennifer, Jennifer Dad, which is fire
being another big battle they have to pay attention to
in regard to a murder that was ruled a suicide.

(01:28:10):
So Bill, can we bring Jen Jennifer gets up?

Speaker 5 (01:28:15):
Jen?

Speaker 1 (01:28:16):
How are you doing good?

Speaker 13 (01:28:17):
How are you good?

Speaker 1 (01:28:18):
Good? So the audio is working for your computer.

Speaker 8 (01:28:23):
It's not on my computer. I had to use my phone.

Speaker 1 (01:28:27):
Okay, so we can still hear you though. You've been
very busy. You've been very busy. So you recently were
at a conference in Atlanta? Is that right? Was it Atlanta?

Speaker 8 (01:28:39):
It was in Indianapolis?

Speaker 1 (01:28:40):
Oh? Sorry, So can you give us an idea of
what that. It's an advocacy conference, wasn't it.

Speaker 8 (01:28:49):
Yes, it was called Advocacy con and it was a
conference for the missing and murdered. So there were other
podcasters there, there were journalists there. There was other families,
victim advocates. I mean, anything that you can really think
of that's needed in situations like mine and other families

(01:29:10):
they were there. It was a great experience.

Speaker 1 (01:29:15):
Well, you know, both of you, both Jennifers. Your ability
to communicate not only in writing but in person is awesome.
So you guys have done a driven job, and you know,
to advocate for both of these cases is incredible. I mean,

(01:29:39):
on one hand, you've got a miscarriage of justice for
a law enforcement officer and you've got another one miscarriage
of justice in regard to what the hell happened. So, Jen,
can you give us a recap of how we got here?
In your case in case somebody isn't familiar with it.

(01:30:00):
It's a murder that was ruled a suicide and Indiana,
can you give us a little background in case somebody.
I know we've gone through it before, but if somebody's
just watching this from Germany or something, what the hell
can you tell us?

Speaker 8 (01:30:19):
So, my mother died when I was a child. Her
death was ruled a suicide, but there's a history of
domestic violence there. I got copies of the crime scene photos,
which definitely tell a very different story than what a
suicide would look like. And since I got those crime

(01:30:41):
scene photos, I've just gone public and been speaking very
loudly and talking to many people trying to get her
death ruled appropriately.

Speaker 1 (01:30:53):
Right. Okay, So, and you have a website, right, And
the title of that website is Justice.

Speaker 8 (01:31:00):
For Every Family dot org right, and it's number four, right.

Speaker 1 (01:31:05):
Yeah, I learned that justice number four for every Justice
number four every Family dot com right org.

Speaker 8 (01:31:18):
It was dot com at first, but I've actually transitioned
into a whole nonprofit. There's a whole backstory to that.
I won't take up too much.

Speaker 1 (01:31:27):
Time with that, though, I have to I perused that
this morning, and uh again, you've done a hell of
a job, you know, putting that together and being able
to communicate it. So the bottom line is that there
was an event that took your mother's life. That the

(01:31:55):
the individuals that investigated the case, it's a questionable circumstances,
what their what their motivation was in regard to coming
to the conclusion that it was a suicide. And the
physical evidence doesn't seem to uh support a suicide unless unless,

(01:32:21):
of course, our arms were five feet long, right. So,
and then you presented the information to the UH Indiana
State Police and requested that they take a look at it, right, yes,
And you subsequently got a first response from then, which

(01:32:45):
is which was what.

Speaker 8 (01:32:48):
Well, it's very conflicting. I was actually contacted by the
district investigative commander who told me that the case had
been opened and that there were to other ISP detectives
that were assigned to it. I actually got to meet
them while I was in Indianapolis a couple of weeks back.

(01:33:10):
But ultimately it's not officially reopened. I just have two
people that are looking at it. And then Once they
get all of the evidence together, they're going to present
it to the board, who can either deny my request
to reopen the case or approve it. But I have
also learned that this SEA one seven seven process for Indiana,

(01:33:32):
which is a law that was passed in twenty twenty
one for families of unconvicted deaths to be able to
request for a new investigation. I learned that absolutely zero
of those families have been approved for a new investigation.
And this bill was passed in twenty twenty one.

Speaker 1 (01:33:50):
Oh my god, four years. The law has been in
force for four years and nobody has been no investigation
as a reopened been reopened none. Jake greg what are
your thoughts on that? I mean, that's crazy. You'd at

(01:34:12):
least think you'd have at least single digit numbers opened, right,
you would think, so wow. So why is it that
they're communicating to you through the Morgan County Sheriff's office.

(01:34:35):
I mean that document is from Morgan County Sheriff's Department, right, correct.

Speaker 8 (01:34:39):
So in December, when I asked questions about the crime
scene photos and the captain said yes, I acknowledged that
there are discrepancies within the photos I'm going to or
he said, I've already assigned somebody from investigations to review
the case. And that person emailed me and introduced themselves

(01:35:00):
to me, but I told them that I would be
more comfortable with speaking through email only, given that this
had also happened in two thousand and three with my
sister and they kind of failed then too, And so
I just have a lot of trust issues with that
sheriff's office. And he didn't respond to that email. And
he is the one who wrote that report in January

(01:35:24):
about his review of my mother's case, and it I
would be embarrassed if I was him that the report
is one of the worst reports I think I have
ever seen. And I'm not biased because it's my mother.
It's literally one of the worst reports I've ever seen.

Speaker 1 (01:35:43):
Yeah, yeah, that's I mean, Greg, you've had occasion to
read that. I did. Yeah, you know, I mean, And
you had some incredibly justified question, which way do you
remember do you remember?

Speaker 5 (01:36:04):
I do?

Speaker 3 (01:36:05):
I mean, there was one. I want you to know
there's a lot of questions. I'm not going to ask
who on the air, because one, it's your mom, and
two I don't want to take away from your story
because your story is very important. So I throw those
story of those questions that John after the show. You know,
the murder took place or the suicide murder took place

(01:36:26):
documented in nineteen ninety back back when a time that
they didn't do a whole lot and the parameters of
law enforcement saying like you had to have like a
checklist of you have to do these things for like
a death view board or anything like that. So the

(01:36:48):
timeframe of that really is really one of the worst.
One of your worst non advocates of what you're trying
to do is that time and history. And then it
is kind of confusing. I know that you had the
Indiana State Police did a query for you as well.

(01:37:08):
I'm asking you a question.

Speaker 8 (01:37:10):
I don't know what query means.

Speaker 3 (01:37:13):
An inquiry, yeah, inquiry. So they didn't call their Indiana
State Police. Uh, they didn't call their their what they
did an investigation. They called it an inquiry. Okay, I
read that in one of your one of your documents.
They they called it an inquiry too.

Speaker 8 (01:37:34):
Oh, a review, a review. They're referring to it as
a review and not investigation an investigation.

Speaker 3 (01:37:43):
So I did this review to determine whether or not
the case should be reopened as a homicide. Is that
is that correct? Yes, that's what I read, so and
and and they're basing it off of initially off of
in nation that you thought didn't exist, because that's what

(01:38:03):
they had told you in the past.

Speaker 8 (01:38:07):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (01:38:11):
Wow. So when you now you were Indie indian Okay,
you attended this conference in Indianapolis, right, yes, okay? And
you were able to were able to publicize this at
all while you were there?

Speaker 8 (01:38:32):
Yes, I did an interview with one of the best
investigative reporters in Indiana. It hasn't aired yet, It will
air either at the end of this week or next week.

Speaker 5 (01:38:43):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:38:45):
Was that right after your in person meeting with Indiana
State Police?

Speaker 8 (01:38:50):
Yep, only a few hours after.

Speaker 1 (01:38:53):
Yeah, so you must have been fired up. I would
have been fired up, right, yes, yes, okay?

Speaker 5 (01:38:59):
So that real quick? Is that lady still around the neighbor?

Speaker 8 (01:39:04):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (01:39:06):
And did that investigative reporter contact her? Because that's because
it was still Something that boggles my mind is that. Yeah,
you know the nine one one call or the original call.
You know, how do we get the suicide when on
the original nine one call she's the one who made it.
I'm still rattling that around in my head. So have

(01:39:29):
we gotten to the bottom of that yet.

Speaker 8 (01:39:32):
No. And that's actually one of the things that I
brought up with State Police is that I felt normal
people when they call nine on one and they haven't
seen anything and they just say someone's been shot, they
don't assume murder or they don't assume homicide or suicide.
It's just someone's been shot. For her to call and
say attempted suicide or suicide, it just seems or feels

(01:39:55):
as if she's setting the scene. So it's easy to
shift you move forward with suicide being the assumption.

Speaker 1 (01:40:02):
Yeah, you know, I don't want to get off track,
but I want to illustrate that that is true because
a variety of different cases we've all had. But just
as an example, like the Ellen Greenberg case, the subject
calls to the police. Ellen Greenberg is a she reportedly

(01:40:27):
killed herself, but there were twenty post mortem back stab wounds, unbelievable.
So the subject calls and says, I believe my girlfriend
committed suicide. You know, instantaneously identified.

Speaker 5 (01:40:54):
Well, the reason not why why she's around? Why this lady?
Because I don't know her age.

Speaker 4 (01:40:58):
We notice happened several couple decades ago, and I would
love to have her on paper sooner than.

Speaker 5 (01:41:04):
Later, you know, I want that.

Speaker 4 (01:41:06):
You know that Morgan State or whoever the investigating for
someone needs to interview this lady and she can probably
give you a bunch of I don't recalls at this
point in time, which I think that's going to be
a lot of her answers. But that question really needs
to be answered. How is an on one tape still available?

Speaker 8 (01:41:28):
I don't know if they recorded it in nineteen ninety,
I'm not sure, but if if they did, and then no,
it's probably not going to be available because the police
lost their own police report. They were able to hand
over the entire file for my mom to say the police,
but the police report, like the dispatch log for the

(01:41:48):
entire month, the dispatch log for the entire day. They
have this on my mother's file, but not the police report.
So it's just odd that they can save that but
not the other.

Speaker 1 (01:42:00):
Odd beyond it reaches heights beyond odd Yes.

Speaker 4 (01:42:09):
Well yeah, Jake, that's well, it gets back to what
Greg said, you know, whatever the investigative acumen would have
been back in nineteen ninety and what the checklist you
had to go down. These are just basic questions that
should have happened on the.

Speaker 3 (01:42:24):
Day of I think we talked about this the very
first day. The department that actually did the investigation was
a local department, correct, And they only had like maybe
like one or two officers on the force, right.

Speaker 8 (01:42:43):
I'm unsure of that. I don't know how many they
had on the force, but it is a small town,
so it wouldn't surprise me if they had five or less.

Speaker 3 (01:42:50):
So it's uh, yeah, I mean I can't imagine. I mean,
like we were required to keep evidence for so many years,
oh my god. Yeah, and John and I know that
our agency was really they were real paying the ass
about it. I mean, I can tell you that we
have evidence in some of our lockers to go back
like thirty years, but I'm sure a local police department

(01:43:14):
wouldn't do that.

Speaker 1 (01:43:16):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:43:16):
My question was with the shotgun itself. It was a
breech loading shotgun. Your mother was kind of a small woman,
if I remember correctly, and so I don't I don't
know how you would discharge that without you know, uh, you.

Speaker 1 (01:43:34):
Know, a broomstick and older.

Speaker 3 (01:43:36):
Yeah, something crazy with a long stick, and I don't
know how that would happen. These are just kind of,
you know, common sense things. And then the roald that
was used was a bird shot round. And the question
I didn't want to ask you the here a few
weeks back, was in a shotgun round, there's watting, And

(01:43:58):
so I wanted to know where the wadding was found.
And I read that in one of your one of
the reports you provided John, that they did talk about
that so it was a contact it was a contact shot,
and that there was burd marks in certain areas. But
that still doesn't address the length of your mom's arms
because she was a small lady. Yeah, and the fact

(01:44:22):
that the boyfriend being present and all the other facts
that you have I think to be completely open about.
I mean, is this time that the time that you
would have now to look at it with twenty twenty
five lenses to nineteen ninety's that's the difficult.

Speaker 8 (01:44:43):
Part, I think.

Speaker 1 (01:44:47):
So.

Speaker 8 (01:44:47):
My only theory that I had before I saw the
photos was that the only logical way my mother could
have shot herself was to sit in the chair and
use her foot. When I saw the photos, I didn't
notice she didn't have her shoes on, so it still
made it possible. However, the way she was laying in
front of the chair was an impossible angel that would

(01:45:09):
have happened if she had shot herself in the chair.
And then she was also laying on top of her
purse with it on her shoulder, so either way, either
she stood up or sat down, she had to have
successfully balanced her purse on her shoulder while either leaning
over the shotgun, sitting or standing up. And it's possible.

Speaker 1 (01:45:30):
To say nothing of the fact that the boyfriend your
siblings heard the truck leave immediately subsequent to that, so
you know he didn't stick around to render assistance. He
fled the scene.

Speaker 4 (01:45:52):
Yes, well, isn't that That's another part that wasn't really clear.

Speaker 5 (01:45:58):
We hear a car leaving. What they say that he
wasn't there or wasn't any footprints or something of that nature.

Speaker 8 (01:46:04):
Yes, they said that they ruled it suicide due to
nobody's footprints but our own, since we ran for help
in the snow, but we had a carboard, so his
footprints were it wouldn't have been in the snow either way, because.

Speaker 1 (01:46:18):
There's blood in the carpoard. Right, didn't I see a
photograph for that.

Speaker 8 (01:46:22):
It's on the porch, Yes, it's on the like the
cements slab.

Speaker 1 (01:46:30):
How did that get there? I'd like to know that exactly.
I would like to Okay, So the neighbor lady who
identified the whole fiasco as a suicide immediately, she's still alive, yes,
and she lives across the street.

Speaker 8 (01:46:52):
Not anymore, but she still lives in the county.

Speaker 1 (01:46:54):
Okay. Chances are that her relationships have changed since then.

Speaker 8 (01:46:59):
I've already sken to her. She's very guarded, is she
she is? She was like the hero in our family
growing up because she tried to help my mom. That's
what she said. The photos definitely say something else. But
when I reached out to her and said, hey, my
sister and I would love to see you while we're here,

(01:47:20):
because my sister always spoke kindly of and she came
up with the oh, I'm helping my mom today. I'm unable.
I'm taking care of my mom. I'm unable to meet
with you. I said, that's okay, we're at a conference
right now, I'm talking about tomorrow. No response, so that
spoke volumes to me. She doesn't want to meet me
because she knows that I'm suspicious, very suspicious.

Speaker 1 (01:47:43):
Of where as you should be. This is insane. It's
just it's it's unfortunate that. Okay. So what's the status
of what the Indiana State Police and the Sheriff's Department

(01:48:06):
are going to do now anything.

Speaker 8 (01:48:10):
The Sheriff's office wrote their report in January, didn't tell
me about it. I only knew about it and got
a copy of it from my meeting with state police
a few weeks ago. I tried to go to the
Sheriff's office to meet with a detective that did that report,
but they refused to speak with me and dismissed me
very quickly.

Speaker 1 (01:48:32):
Okay, so there's something wrong there. Yes, yes, you know,
something very wrong there.

Speaker 8 (01:48:43):
State police. I met with for almost two hours. It
was really just kind of a Q and A. I
didn't really gain any information from it. I don't know
how seriously they will take the review. They said out
that because there's no suspect, they don't know that the
review will be my request will be approved, because what's

(01:49:07):
the point I guess what?

Speaker 1 (01:49:09):
Wait, wait a minute, because there's no suspects.

Speaker 8 (01:49:13):
Because he died in twenty thirteen, they're saying it's.

Speaker 1 (01:49:15):
Not Yeah, no, yeah, I know what you mean. Yeah,
talking about that for us, I mean, I can understand
to some degree that they don't want to invest great
amount of time because they get a lot of other
shit going on. But I mean, it's super important to

(01:49:39):
resolve this for the family who you're working for, you know,
I mean if you have because I'm sure all of
us have had cases where, you know, an individual passes
under whatever circumstances and suddenly the parents want to give

(01:50:03):
you their theory and you have to answer their theory,
or you end up with a twenty page series in
the Philadelphia Choir, which I had. So you know, you
better answer the questions, you know, to their satisfaction. Yeah,

(01:50:26):
maybe not to their satisfaction, but to speak to the facts,
you know what I mean. Yes, I mean it's a
so as far as we know, they're still looking at
it too.

Speaker 8 (01:50:43):
They are still looking at it. They have the negatives
for the photos that I was provided copies of, so
they're going to develop those negatives to see if there's
any more photos than what we were able to see.
Hopefully there is Outside of that, I think that's all
they're waiting on to present it to the board. Boy,

(01:51:09):
my hope is to find somebody who can do a
blood spatter analysis of the photos that I have. I
don't know how realistic that is. I don't know if
anybody would even be willing to do that, because for
the officer at or corporal in Morgan County to say

(01:51:29):
that it's transferred just blows my mind because I don't
know where he can assume that transferred from.

Speaker 1 (01:51:36):
How would he know that?

Speaker 8 (01:51:38):
And I can look at those photos as a non
law enforcement officer and no training in blood spatter analysis,
and see that they are ninety degree angle drops. It's
the round, the droplets of blood. It's not transfers you.
There's no direction in it. And for him to say
that's what it.

Speaker 1 (01:51:55):
Is just wow. Okay, Jen, we've got two minutes left.
I just want to, you know, make sure you understand
what we you know. Did you get closure on this
thing based on facts, not on somebody's interpretation, right? I

(01:52:26):
would certainly hope. I'm sure Jake and Greg both and
I would hope that they would at least attempt to
interview the woman across the street that made the determination
that it was a suicide.

Speaker 5 (01:52:44):
How about his friend? Is his friend still around? Didn't
he have like a friend.

Speaker 8 (01:52:51):
The officer?

Speaker 5 (01:52:52):
Yeah, the officer. Is he still around?

Speaker 8 (01:52:55):
No, he died in twenty fourteen.

Speaker 1 (01:52:57):
Okay, oh boy, so do yeah? Okay, so quickly we
you know, it would be nice to know if the
alleged suspect has any friends that are still living. I mean,

(01:53:18):
we talked about this before. There was some communication at
a bar, right so you'd have to chase those people down,
but they didn't chase them down yet right now. Wow, Jen,
we will continue to follow this with you, and we're
but we're running out of time. We're going to wrap, yes, so,
but we'd love to have you back as this goes

(01:53:42):
forward hopefully. Okay, thank you, Jen, thank you very much.
Thank you, Jake, thank you, Greg. Thank you

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