"The Revolving Door of Corruption"

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:52):
Okay, it's search warn't and uh we're live. You can
listen to us on kg R A Radio Rumble, Facebook, book, LinkedIn,
and later we'll be on Spotify and Speaker and i
Art and we're broadcasting from Salt Lake City, Utah, and
Hudson Valley, New York. So today's episode is entitled the

(01:16):
Revolving Door of Corruption, and we actually have two special guests,
but our first special guests were waiting for him to.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
Arrive.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
So, but we're going to try to cover the Revolving
Door of Corruption. A medical corruption and the bird flu
science backed long COVID solutions, residual pandemics and drums. Insurance
data that shows mortality crisis persists. Intelligence information reports which

(01:55):
are otherwise known as Irsiladelphia, New York and New York Corruption.
Krasner's head Krasner being the Zorros Instole District Attorney in Philadelphia.
His head, his liebscene endorsements. Uh, Don Caravello murder and

(02:15):
suicide update that investigation, upty justice for every family? Uh
we should have Jennifer Gatz later on in the program,
involving the Indiana State Police and their investigation of her mother.
Tom Dodge continues uncovering fraud, money laundering, and tax evasion.

(02:39):
And Chudge Dugan, who's supposedly going to run against Zero's
installed as a attorney Larry Krasner. So who do we
have today? We've got Detective Jake Jacobs from Philadelphia Homicide
New Yorker Involved shooting unit and investor a reporter Ralph Sapriana,

(03:02):
who is normally with us.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
We got a.

Speaker 1 (03:07):
Note from him that he says George Peshadow, said to
be a candidate for the US attorney in Philadelphia, is
questioning Larry Krasner today in the courtroom of Judge Anne
Marie Coyle, not exactly a fan of Larry's. The subject
matter is homicide files from the Philadelphia District Attorney's office

(03:31):
that former Assistant District Attorney Patricia Cummings we've talked about before,
took with her to New York University and Yu and
Ralph believes that it's a crime. But with everything Krasner,

(03:51):
I mean, you know, I'm sure, you know he'll weasel
out of something. Unfortunately, So and I'm Johnson ned and
a veteran, let's say, specially so. And we have Sandy
Hurricane Magnano with us. He's a New York State Assembly
candidate UH from Tennessee and seem to be a candidate

(04:12):
in Tennessee. And we actually do have our special guest
with us, doctor Peter McCullough. I don't think he needs
any any AH introduction introduction other than what Joe Rogan said,
which is very accurate. He's the most published doctor in humanity, UH,

(04:37):
in human history in his field of study. He's well respected,
he's rock solid, he's credentialed, and we're just happy to
have him join us. Doctor, how you doing. We really
appreciate you taking the time to be with us.

Speaker 3 (04:55):
Well, thank you so much, and your as gracious is
Joe Rogan and Aaron Rodgers and Wody Harrelson. You know
so many people I've met through the course of the
pandemic who are just appreciate getting the scientific truth and
having somebody level with them about what's going on.

Speaker 1 (05:17):
Yes, sir, I wanted to there's a there's a we
have a ton of questions here, but you know, with
your reputation and the UH, and I'm sure everybody, unless
they're under a rock, they have they have heard you
on several programs and it's you know, very important for

(05:39):
people to understand from somebody that has your reputation and
your experience with what the hell is actually going on.
You know, the I wanted to kind of start out
with as a bird flu thing. What can you tell
us about your your thoughts on the bird flu.

Speaker 3 (06:00):
In a review by Licett and colleagues. And you know,
in this interview, like so many out cite the literature
by first author, something that Anthony Fauci all the other
media commentators don't do. I just cite the information so
you could everyone can look at it themselves. Lieset and
colleagues from the UK. I've summarized that we've had known

(06:22):
bird flu for over one hundred years. So bird flu
comes and it is an illness that chickens and other
birds can get and typically very mild and a few
birds will be lost. What we've seen now since the
end of twenty twenty and early twenty twenty one is
something unusual is that bird flu has expanded its host

(06:45):
range into sea mammals, in cattle. It's never happened before.
In fact, there's some events, some sporadic cases in domesticating cats,
and so our research from the McCullough Foundation, which is
a not for profit gateive organization. Published in the journal Wildlife,
Sciences and Poetry by first author Holscher has concluded what

(07:09):
happened was that gain of function serial passage research was
being done at the USDA Poultry Research Laboratory in Athletes, Georgia.
This is now under the purview of Brooke Rowlins, our
new director, so she's going to need to take a
careful look. And yeah, in collaboration with doctor Kirakawa at

(07:29):
the Years of Wisconsin School of Venory Medicine and doctor
Fouchet at Rastmus University in the Netherlands, they were able
to get bird flu to pass from Mallard duck to
Mallard duck. It's very important. The Mallard ducks are migratory.
They do now fly all over Rollins. Today on our
press briefing set, she acknowledges that the migratory ducks are

(07:53):
reinfecting the farms over and over again. So it finally,
you know, after four years of this, we finally have
a government, uh leader telling us how it's spreading. Otherwise presented, yeah,
just we're presented just a mystery that it was just
popping up on farm to farm. But what we know
now is that the migratory waterfowl are spreading this virus,

(08:16):
but it's far more mild. Very few chickens have died
of it, we think, and of course it's it's like
a case of mild pink eye in humans.

Speaker 1 (08:25):
Do you think the calling of all these chickens is like,
you know, crazy? I mean, you know, do we need
to kill that many chickens to handle this type of
outbreak or whatever you want to call it.

Speaker 3 (08:44):
Today under press briefing use the term biosecurity measures biosecurity
that's actually code word for when there's a test positive chicken,
to kill the entire flock. That's what they call biosecurity.
And it's useless, and you know its aim would be
to quote eradicate bird food. But obviously if the mallard

(09:06):
ducks continue just to reinfect the farms as useless to
kill all the healthy chickens, they'll never get natural immunity
because it's so mild. Obviously the mallard ducks must have
natural immunity, saying right, yeah. So anyhow, Rollins fails to
mention this specifically, and so far no government official nor

(09:28):
person in the media has linked the practice of culling
killing large numbers of chickens. We're talking hundreds of millions
of chickens. They haven't linked that to the price of
chicken and the price of eggs.

Speaker 1 (09:43):
Yeah, I saw, I saw. I think you had a
post or you're or a interview where you made that
abundantly clear. So I would hope that somebody would put
two and two together, you know.

Speaker 2 (09:59):
I mean, I oh.

Speaker 4 (10:00):
I've been following you since the COVID thing, as most
of us have, and you was, of course in the
forefront of that.

Speaker 2 (10:07):
And I know we're gonna touch on that.

Speaker 4 (10:09):
But while we touched on this bird flu and I
want to take it back to the COVID in some regards,
you're saying the coloring of the chickens is not doing anything.
But you also had this gain of function which causes
it now to go from species to species for something
that we've had for centuries. Do you think that this
is an intentional act by our government? Because one of

(10:31):
the questions asked to day, just like you said, is
the cost of eggs and things of that nature with
the chickens and all this other kind of nonsense.

Speaker 2 (10:38):
I think coved was something that was done. Is my own.

Speaker 4 (10:40):
Conspiracy theorist part intentional or something, especially at the time
that it was done. And I also heard when you
said the prevention I was one of the original super speres,
if you want to call it, because I had that
in twenty nineteen, and prior to me hearing your thing,
I've always jump in front of it, which is you

(11:01):
said was one of the pre things of getting rid
of it, is to jump in front of the cold
soon when it starts.

Speaker 2 (11:05):
And that was good for survivable. So get back on
this chicken thing. I don't want to get off of it.

Speaker 4 (11:12):
Is that an intentional act? All of a sudden you
have this gain of function in chickens that goes to
the ducks, that goes to the cows, and they have
all these chickens getting killed right at the turn of
a presidenty election. To try to justify the accountmy I
just needs someone with your medical expertise to.

Speaker 2 (11:29):
Swash my conspiracy theorist views.

Speaker 3 (11:33):
But we read the abstracts from the USDA researchers, and
this was occurring towards the end of the Trump administration,
beginning to bide administration and their goal was to get
it to pass from Mallard duck to Mallard duck, because
the Mallard ducks are known to have a very long
gullet and their heads are always going underwater, so they
have a kind of a unique form of immunity to

(11:56):
different viruses. So you know, at the face value of this,
they were simply trying to study what were the resistant
factors to you know, whether or not a duck could
actually carry this virus. But it's very poorly conceived. Obviously,
Maillard ducks escape and you know there's hundreds and hundreds
of lab leagues. This has been summarized in mainscrip. This

(12:17):
is a very dangerous thing to do. Someone at the
us DA should think, hmm, maybe we shouldn't do this
in Mallard ducks because one may get out and spread
it to others. Indeed, that's what happened. Now. You know,
if the major egg manufacturers, there's like four of them,
Jenny Herbrocks and Calmaine and there's another one. They're the

(12:42):
big players. Do you know they get paid hundreds of
millions of dollars by the us FDA to kill the chickens,
and so they have fewer eggs to offer, and so
when they bring the eggs to market, we're at a
forty five year high in egg prices. They make a
bigger profit on the eggs sol So you don't see
any of the executives of the big egg producers out

(13:04):
there complaining at all. And so you know, Brooke Rowlins
at the USDA and other people in the media, they
better get their act together to figure this out quickly
because because you know, us three on this call right
now have already put all the pieces together, yet no
one can articulate this in the mainstream media.

Speaker 1 (13:24):
Yes, sir, I wanted to you know, we cover a crime,
corruption and media bias, and I know that this has
become a interesting circumstances. Just want to show this the
what is Patrizia Zanie, former head of FDA's Drug Center,

(13:44):
has joined Pfizer. Isn't that seems to be a problem there.

Speaker 3 (13:52):
Patresia Cavezioni is a doctor from Canada and she trained
in psychiatry, never saw a US patient at all, joins
Peiser years ago, so she's at Pfizer. Then Peiser is
able to plant her in the FDA and she actually
heads what's called CEDAR, the Center for Drug Evaluation and

(14:15):
Resource that's the most powerful center in all of the FDA.
So she's at CEDAR carrying favor for Pfizer, and then
after several years, Pfiser takes her back from the FDA.
And this all occurs under the watch of now outgoing
Commissioner Robert Califf, somebody I know, a previously well respected

(14:36):
clinical cardiologist, and then above him was HH Secretary Bashia.
But this wide open corruption that none of our officials
has recognized has to stop.

Speaker 1 (14:51):
You know.

Speaker 3 (14:51):
There's been a report on the media now that Cavizioni,
as this doctor, has never seen an American patient. Her
net worth personally is seventeen million dollars.

Speaker 1 (15:03):
Oh my god, this is herget Okay, Pfizer could use
a woman like her from her head of FDA's Drug Center.
Joins Pfizer as chief medical officer. But again, she's never
seen a US citizen in a medical setting, right, Oh god,
uh oh boy? So is that something that has been

(15:26):
going on for a long time where they they insert
their people and then is that what's happening?

Speaker 3 (15:34):
Clearly, this idea of a close hand and glove relationship
with the pharmaceutical industries have been going on for quite
some time, and the main thing to do is look
at the exit. So, you know, going into the pandemic,
the FDA commissioner was Scott Gottlie. What was his exit?

(15:54):
He became a board member for Pfizer and then he
took a contract to go on CNBC and push Ffiser
vaccines to you know, the Wall Street community. After him
was Stephen Hahn. Stephen Hahn was the one who tried
to tried to deep six hydroxicork when ivermectin monoclonal antibodies.

(16:15):
What does he do when he finishes, He joins the
flagship the venture capital firm for Maderna, the top public
health official in the UK and Denmark. They both joined
Maderna as senior executives. Deborah Burks on the White House
Task Force becomes the CEO of a biotech company. So

(16:39):
this wide open corruption. You know, you know, our government
agencies should have non compete and future conflict of interest clauses.
We should clearly have separation agreements that prohibit people from
capitalizing on all the favors they did for pharma while
they were in office.

Speaker 1 (17:00):
So this is exceptionally playton, right, I mean, people.

Speaker 4 (17:05):
Okay, well, lie near this because now with the Trump administration,
every one of his cabinet picks, they were asking for
the same type of noncompete clauses for like the Defense Secretary,
and I think they asked RFK Junior the same thing,
what are you plan on doing when you leave? So

(17:25):
they know the corruption exists because they've all been doing it.

Speaker 3 (17:31):
It's true. You know, I've been on the FDA panels,
I've testified before the Congressional Oversight Panel. I was back
in seven and the Washington testify in the Senate and
the House. You know, the first step in conflict of
interest is just to declare it, you know, like what
are you doing? What are your positions? And then conflict
of interest has to be a triangle where someone has

(17:54):
a relationship to government and industry and then that relationship
can be utilized for personal gain to the person and
it actually harms the public. And that's exactly what like
Scott Lottlieb did, for instance, with COVID nineteen vaccines, and
probably CAVICIONI did with you know, the approval of the

(18:16):
Pfizor vaccines, and certainly of course in other drug dealings. Now,
having said that they can do valuable functions, they get
valuable consultative experience. They're at a very low level of
pay when they work in the US government. But you know,
when individuals do this, they have to have some accountability.

(18:39):
Can you imagine an intelligence officer for the United States
who after they're done, they join you know, they join
the Soviet you know intelligence. Imagine that same thing, or
somebody who has secrets about US military nuclear weaponry they
go to Iran for instance. We have have some safeguards.

Speaker 1 (19:02):
Yes, sir, what are your thoughts in regard to RFK
and RFK Junior and what he wants to do.

Speaker 3 (19:11):
You know, I'm in contact with so many people in
Washington and those you know, in overlapping circles, and I've
come to appreciate everything that's decided in Washington is enormously complex.
It has a calculus that's very difficult for us to see.
You know, in the public, we just want to have
these singular, straightforward actions. Nothing is straightforward in Washington. I

(19:36):
think he is honest about his desire to improve the
health of America, but you know, he is in many
ways boxed in. I mean, look at Brooke, Brooke Wallins.
We just pointed her out. She's boxing him in there.
We have Macari at the FDA who almost certainly will
be boxing him, Batachara at the National Institute's Health, his

(19:58):
under secretaries and assistant secretaries in HHS. So Kennedy, someone
who's not led large organizations, certainly is not a doctor
and so it doesn't have that gravitas. He's going to
have to UH to see to figure out how to
navigate here and get these organizational skills UH together. His predecessors,

(20:22):
alex Azar who was under Obama, carried under Trump, and
then Bishiera under Biden, they were basically administrators. They were
HHS administrators who didn't seem to care anything about the
healthy United the United States. So we entered Kennedy, who's
very different. But let's see how he does. He's no

(20:43):
longer going to be expected to be a content expert.
He has to be an organizational expert and a leader.
And so that's that's very different, right he used to
he used to being a litigator and kind of a
scrappy content expert. No, it's very different.

Speaker 2 (20:58):
Now.

Speaker 3 (20:59):
You know, what what we expect of him is he
should bring in experts and then he needs to be
a leader.

Speaker 1 (21:05):
Yes, well I can think of one expert he needs
to call you like immediately. So the two things that
stick in my mind is one he wants to be
able to remove pharmaceutical commercials from broadcasting. What are your
thoughts on that.

Speaker 3 (21:25):
We have two concerns here. The public health agencies HHS
and the CDC. They directly do vaccine advertisements for the companies,
so actually our taxpayer dollars are advertising advisor vaccines for instance,
to the public. That's completely wrong. The government should not

(21:47):
pick up any advertising load, and these TV commercials are expensive.
That needs to stop immediately. The other problem with that
is because the CDC is not a drug company, it's
not following the the truth and advertising laws. The US
Drug and Cosmetic Act, is not following the Landman Act,
which says that there must be a truth in advertising.

(22:11):
Demonstrating the potential benefits and the observed risks is not
being done by these agencies, so they need to go immediately.
Now the drug companies paying for their own commercials, what
that does is it works to raise the marketing and
development costs of the drugs, and I think it's very

(22:31):
confusing to the public. In general, that they're advertising for
orphan diseases with complicated acronyms. Most of the time people
don't even know what is being advertised, and then they
try to bullet read a disclosure on safety as fast
as they possibly can and kind of a lower volume.
All of that, I think America can see is not helping.
So I'm in favor of the US joining every other

(22:54):
country in the world outside of New Zealand and banning
direct to consumer advertising from the companies and through our
public health agencies.

Speaker 1 (23:03):
Yeah. I mean, I've seen more than enough commercials about
Rick Salty and sky Rizzy. You just can't get rid
of them, and we go v I wanted to. Okay.
So the other thing is he's going to attack the
vaccination schedule right for children. Do you have anything to

(23:24):
say about that?

Speaker 3 (23:25):
You know, we don't know about that. The vaccine schedule.
Of course, some vaccines have been given to children for many,
many decades over time, but the trend has been more
and more vaccines and then combination products. So there are
now some products now that contain, for instance, four vaccines

(23:46):
in a single shot. And the problem with the combination
products is is if there's a reaction. So let's say
measles moms, rubella and polio together. Well, if there's a reaction,
which one of those has caused the problem? How do
we sort this out?

Speaker 1 (24:03):
And so.

Speaker 3 (24:05):
I think we're heading there. I think the first step
in the vaccine schedule would be to de escalate the
pressure and the coercion and the reprisal around vaccines. And
what I'm talking about is removing all mandates to take
a vaccine, all school requirements to have kids vaccinated. You know,

(24:27):
that's crept in over time. It should be a free choice.
And you know, I'm not talking about having a mandate
and then an exemption and have people jump through hoops
for exemptions, but simply dropping the requirements. And you know,
the schools, you know, it's fine for them to suggest
what they want to suggest, and doctors to make their suggestions,
but people need to make their own choices right now.

(24:50):
And if that happened, I think all the tension over
the vaccine schedule would change. Kennedy wants transparency that they
should have merging of the vaccine administration data with complications
out there like sudden infant death syndrome, neuropsychiatric disorders, seizures.
There's ways to integrate those databases. But very importantly, Americans

(25:15):
want freedom of choice. You know, historically about two point
five percent of American families did not vaccinate the kids
at all, and that's gone on for decades and decades
and decades, you know, Amish, Quakers, Mennonites, and others. But
now that number is approaching ten percent since the COVID
nineteen vaccine debacle. So we already have ten percent of

(25:36):
people are saying, listen, you know, we're going to go natural.

Speaker 1 (25:40):
Yeah, so I wanted to you know, we have a
lot of questions about the COVID vaccine, but I wanted to.
I wanted to mention this. I think this is the
right one. Oh no, that's not sorry, But there was
a uh and let me see maybe this.

Speaker 2 (26:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (26:06):
In early on in the twenty nineteen, there was a
Some people in law enforcement and intelligence community are familiar
with an intelligence information Report and IIR. And there was
an IIR that came out from one of our intelligence agencies,
and it may very well be NCIS, I'm not sure,

(26:30):
but there was information about China and it coming from China,
and it was it seems like it was dismissed. It's
the five five Eyes intelligence allegedly indicating the true extent
of the dangerous posed by posed to Canada and the
world by the COVID nineteen virus. But it appears that

(26:54):
they disregarded that.

Speaker 2 (26:55):
You know, this.

Speaker 1 (26:58):
Christie from Canada had disregarded that. But anyway, you know,
had you doctor, had you heard anything early on relative
to COVID coming before it? You know, got here.

Speaker 3 (27:15):
I was caught completely by surprise, and it turns out
it wasn't a surprise at all. I mean, in two
thousand and five, under Bush, we had the his in
Congress write the prep Act which said we're going to
have pandemics. We got to get ready for it. We
had clear gain of function research done by Ralph Barrack

(27:40):
Venit Medicherry, doctor Shingling.

Speaker 1 (27:43):
Lie and Wuhan, China.

Speaker 3 (27:44):
They published their papers in twenty fifteen and twenty sixteen
on the creation of SARSKOV two. They called it a
wu Han Institute of Virology one co virus poised for
human emergents. I mean, this was right in our face.
And then in twenty seven seventeen, JOHNS. Hopkins Bloomberg School
of Health Gates Foundation. They hold a training exercise called

(28:05):
the SPARS Pandemic that says there's going to be a
coronavirus epidemic and there's going to be confusion over treatment,
and then we're going to organize the entire country and
social media in the Office of the President to push
back scenes. That's in twenty seventeen, and then in twenty
nineteen we have Event to A one. And here we
have Avril Haynes, our former Director of National Intelligence. She's

(28:29):
a World Economic Forum trainee. She's participating in Event to
A one in October of twenty nineteen with George Gou,
the Chinese CDC director, and they're saying there's going to
be a coronavirus pandemic, and again we're going to railroad
the population of the mass vaccination. We're actually going to
cover up the origins of the virus. That's all on
Event to A one. And you know what I missed

(28:51):
it all I was taking care of patients. I had
no idea what was going to hit America. And I'm
being honest about it.

Speaker 4 (28:58):
Yeah, well, doctor of twenty nineteen, I got what I
believe to now be COVID.

Speaker 2 (29:05):
Late November twenty nineteen. It was a bad.

Speaker 4 (29:07):
Flu and it lasted for quite some time. As a
matter of fact, the reason I called myself a super
spreader is because in December, I drove down to Disney
World in Orlando, Florida, and I paid for them expensive
tickets and I'm walking around the park. I couldn't stay long,
but I'm coughing over everything and I'm doing everything. And

(29:29):
then later on in twenty twenty, all those symptoms is
now being described as a new virus, which is COVID nineteen.
So my question to you, I know you said even
to one was in October, when do you believe actually
the first case of COVID hit America.

Speaker 3 (29:51):
The best information I've heard on this is from former
CDC director Robert Redfield, who thinks that the virus was
on the move in China through twenty nineteen. Maybe first
or even second quarter of twenty nineteen. They had a
form of Chinese Male Olympic competition in Wuhan, several people
got sick. There was an air conditioning anomaly ventilation anomaly

(30:16):
in the wuhnt En ssuit of virology around that time.
Patient zero, the first one to get sick, is probably
a worker at the Wuhant Institute of Virology. May have
gone to a fish market and spread it from there.
So it was on the move in twenty nineteen, and
it's possible you had it, but you know, so many
of us got ill. I was. I traveled to California

(30:37):
in I want to think February of twenty twenty, and
I became very ill. It may have been the most
ill I've ever been in my life. There's an incredible
chest pain, My chest was on fire, fever, and then
later on it turned out it wasn't COVID. I had
my first episode of COVID in October of twenty twenty.
But as we sit here today, ninety seven percent of

(30:57):
us have had COVID. So think about that. Essentially everybody
has had it in the United States. So do you
remember like wearing masks and trying to pretend that you
could dodge getting the virus or hand sanitizers, or how
about contact tracing. Remember all the money the governments spent
on contract tracing. You're going to see who touched who

(31:18):
and who coughed on who. It was an entire waste
of circles thinking about this. We all got it. So
this idea of the pandemic is it's a pandemic. That
means we're all going to get it. So what we
really should do in a pandemic is try to reduce
the severity of the illness. And what we turned out

(31:39):
is to understand is the best way of reducing severity
and probably getting a mild or a boarded case is
using nasal sprays and gargles, not wearing a mask. If
you wear a mask, even if the virus land in
your nose, what you want to do is you want
to spray a form of a nasal spray up in
the nose and gargle at least twice today, because the

(32:01):
virus is there for five days before you get a
sore throat and a fever and then so you have
five days to do something, So you want to do
it twice a day. You know, a dilute saline iodine,
nasal spray, xylotol, you know vix makes an immune defense.
You know, all of those are perfectly fine scope blistering,

(32:21):
spry gargles. I personally like the xylotol one, so I
use clear nasal spray and spray gargle. But the bottom
line is we should be doing this twice a day.
If we would have done it twice a day, according
to the two dozen randomized prospective, double blind placebo control trials,
we would have reduced the incidence of COVID and certainly
you know, made it much more mild, so it wouldn't

(32:41):
hit in these big waves and we would have gotten
through it much more easily.

Speaker 1 (32:46):
Geez. Now, these we have two questions from from one part,
it's a folks who took the basic JAB and regularly
annually get physicals complete with blood work or blood workups
and everything is looking fine. Should they be taking anything,

(33:08):
you know, vitamins or supplements.

Speaker 3 (33:12):
Well, this whole idea of risk. So eighty percent of
the population took a vaccine. What we know there if
we if we go to the website how bad is
my batch dot com? People can look up their batches
on their vaccine card and it's a solid, reputable site
and you'll find that like twenty five percent of Pfizer
Maderna there were serious side effects including deaths, but seventy

(33:35):
five percent was nothing. There's nothing serious reported seventy five
per So, just to be.

Speaker 1 (33:42):
Just to be clear, all three of us are unvaccinated.
Yes they are.

Speaker 3 (33:48):
Okay, yes, so I want to send chills down your spine.
Now I didn't take it either, but let me say
that this is how bad is my batch? Is a
useful thing to do about twenty five percent worried about Now.
One of the first things you can do if you
took a vaccine is did you have a reaction in
the arm? So those who had no reaction whatsoever? Uh,

(34:10):
and they have a you know, an innocuous badge. You know,
probably nothing needs to be done now anybody else Outside
of this, we have increasing clinical experience with what's called
mccolor protocol based spike protein intoxification. It's fully copyrighted in
my name. And so we use a combination of natokinase, bromlin,
and curcumin. These are over the counter supplements nato kines, bromlin, curcumin.

(34:34):
They're conveniently in a combination capsule now by the Wellness
Company is called the Ultimate Spike Detox. So what a
lot of people do, are you just kind of playing
it safe now? Is they have they're taking Ultimate Spike
Detox about two capsules twice a day and if well tolerated,
at least for a year or indefinitely. We have out

(34:55):
today on focal points substeck. We've just published a peer
review paper on risk gratification and it involves to getting
an antibody test against the spike protein. It's a proxy
for how much vaccine spike protein is built up in
the body, and that's the leadoff in risk ratification.

Speaker 1 (35:13):
The other thing is folks who got four of the jabs.
You know what, can they do the same thing or.

Speaker 3 (35:27):
Yeah, the toxicity is almost certainly dose related. In I practice,
I measure antibodies if they're very high, So the antibody
test is done by lab Corp and the assay manufacturers.
Rocha alexis less than a thousand on this test is
low risk. Over a thousand, progressively higher higher risks find

(35:47):
people at ten, fifteen, twenty five thousand on the spike
antibody test. I'll commonly recommend ultimate spike detox, but I
double the dose to four thousand units twice a day.
We start to worry about blood clots, so aspirin eighty
one milligrams a day, and then additional products can be added,
enicetyl systeine, vitamin C. Almost everybody has their favorite cocktail.

(36:09):
But don't forget Ultimate Spike detox from the Wellness Company
as the base.

Speaker 1 (36:14):
Yes, sir, I wanted to I grabbed this off your site.
It's the McCalla protocol Base Spike Detoxification, right, Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 3 (36:26):
This is an important diagram and this is from US.
Now appears in several peer reviewed publications. The spike protein
attaches the red blood cell shown up in panel A
and causes blood clots, even micro blood clots. They've been
seen behind the eyes, in the calf muscle of the legs,
probably responsible for the chest pain and the fatigue people feel.

(36:48):
The spike protein itself is produced from the vaccine. The
bigger blue dart shown in panel C, that's from the vaccine.
The smaller one is from the natural infection. The NATO
kind in Bromlin actually dissolve these. They're dissolvers, which is
very important. The human body cannot dissolve the spike protein
on it self. It was engineered in the Wuhan Institute

(37:09):
of Virology. It's a very unnatural protein and it's in
our bloodstream after we've had COVID and after COVID nineteen vaccination,
and then lastly kirkcumin, which the Asian Indians that relied
on for years, is an anti arthritic. It turns out
it blocks inflammation from the spike protein beautifully. So here
are three natural products. Buy them separately or buy them

(37:30):
in a combined product. And you know, it's a it's
something that people can do on their own. They don't
need a doctor to do this. And on my show,
The McCullough Report on America a lot news this week
is the podcast about self management, So what people can
do themselves at home without a doctor, and it leverages

(37:52):
you know, these concepts and more.

Speaker 1 (37:55):
Yeah, so I wanted to ask your thoughts on this.
So some people, okay, so you you know, we've we've
had a couple uh medical personnel on that we're talking
about turbo cancer and that they believe that it may

(38:16):
have generated as a result of the vaccine, specifically the boosters. Uh,
you know, whoever wants to you know, believe that that's
good or not, that's fine. But my question would be
some of the medical community are entrenched in the traditional

(38:41):
chemotherapy and radiation, while others that have are not inclined
to do that have have pushed for other medicines. I've
remectin and ben bendizol. Yeah, but what do you have

(39:02):
any recommendations for a for a patient that is running
into a brick wall with you know, physicians that are
only uh, suggesting a traditional approach being chemotherapy and radiation

(39:24):
as opposed to others that have there's evidence there that
they work.

Speaker 3 (39:32):
First of let's just take the issue of cancer rising,
and all cancer registries show cancers, particularly solid organ tumors,
are skyrocketing since the vaccination. And in fact, a recent
abstract by Kevin McKernan presented towards the end of last year,
and you know I attended that meeting showed actually the

(39:55):
vaccine and the s V forty one of the gene
fragments in the vaccine physically in the tumor, in a
colon tumor. So I can tell you it looks like
the COVID nineteen vaccines are going to be the cause
of this rise in cancer. Now, you know, cancer is
an enormously complex area. I'm an internist and cardiologist, so

(40:18):
it's outside the scope of my practice. But you know,
there are conventional approaches that are proven. In general, they
involve surgery, chemotherapy, radiation, now monoclonal antibodies and some other approaches.
What most people are asking is, you know, they're doing
everything they can with conventional cancer care. Can they do

(40:39):
anything else? That's usually the question. There's two centers that
I commonly refer patients to. One is the Brazinski Center
in Katie, Texas, outside Houston, and the other is Brio
Medical Center in Phoenix, Arizona. And on my subtack focal Points,
people listening will want to subscribe to focal points, get
a free email every day, go to substack dot com

(41:03):
focal points, and you know we'll summarize the data. So,
for instance, Kirkcumin has consistently anti cancer properties. So there
are many things, yeah, and so do many things in
the diet. There are what's called culinary and medicinal herbs.
I did a whole review with Michael Gaietta, who I
think is the best metropathic doctor out there. You probably

(41:25):
want to have mine your show at the guy To
Institute in Boulder, Colorado, and we went through all the
fundamentals of what can people can do with both culinary
and medicinal herbs that are anti cancer. In addition, to kurcumin.
So we have that out there. And then we have drugs. Now,
I believe it or not, many drugs have been tried

(41:46):
because of anti cancer properties. Now I recall I used
to be on an introduction review board, and so for instance, statins,
which are used to lower cholesterol, they were tried in
the treatment of cancer. I never forget a protocol that
gave you know, thousands of milligrams of pravistatan for instance,
in a protocol. Many now are focused on anti parasitic
agents because they're well tolerated, and again they have anti

(42:09):
cancer properties. That would be ivermectin, febbenisol, and mebbenisol. So
well as cancer research is going on, let me tell
you what we did in the Wellness Company is we
do have a product that combines ivermectin and membenisol in
a standard dose and it's for patients with parasitic infections

(42:31):
what's called the exposure to parasites for parasite cleans. Many
use that in a sense off label, you know, to
handle other risks, including neoplasms. So if people are running
to a brick wall with their doctors, they can they
can go to the Wellness Company Www. TWC dot Health

(42:52):
Forward slash courage. That's TWC dot Health Forward slash courage.
Get into the system and then look up the iMac
then the Benisoul product.

Speaker 2 (43:03):
Doctor.

Speaker 4 (43:04):
I know you say you in the cardiology field. Another
person we had on and it was with the Buffalo
Bills defensive back and the spike proteins the V drop.
How do you relate the V drop to the vaccine
because it seems like once and the player's name was

(43:25):
Damar Hamblin.

Speaker 2 (43:27):
Yes, things like.

Speaker 4 (43:27):
That was a big cover up, like he played this year,
but it was so much it was a cloud of
I hate to keep using the word conspiracy, but he
dropped and it would have died if he wasn't on
Monday Night football and everyone's saying that was the result
of the vaccine. Being a cardiologist, and like I said,

(43:49):
I've been following you since you know you Senator Johnson
and things of that nature, since the COVID things started.

Speaker 2 (43:56):
Do you think the vaccine had anything.

Speaker 4 (43:57):
To do with the V drop because they call it
the V drop from the COVID vcsin Well.

Speaker 3 (44:02):
You know when that happened, I was watching the game
the Bills were playing the Bengals, as I recall, and
it was a kickoff pretty early in the game, and
Hamlin wasn't a starter then he was just on the
special teams and he made a tackle and I watched
it all, and he tackled him, he stood up and

(44:23):
then he kind of almost clapped his hands or went
to a justice helmet, and then he went down. You know,
that's a classic cardiac arrest. There's nothing else that causes it.
There is a condition called commodio cortis when there's a
severe blow in the chest due to a baseball or
hockey puck, usually over one hundred miles an hour. When
that happens, the player goes down immediately. They don't get up,

(44:45):
they don't pop up and then go down. So Hamlin
making the tackle, getting up and then having a cardiac
arrest is classic for a vaccine cardiac arrest. And we've
published this actually on Twitter today is our peer review
paper concerning this issue in the World Journal of Cardiology.
And they're the surge of adrenaline that Hamlin had in

(45:08):
his body at the beginning of the game, made a
big tackle that triggered this cardiac arrest. You know, Tucker
Carlson got a hold of me right away and had
me on the show within twenty four hours. And you know,
all these media doctors were saying all these ridiculous things like, oh,
it's not the vaccine, or let's raise money for his family.
And I went on and told Tucker Carlson, I said, listen,

(45:29):
the first thing I need to know as a doctor
is did he take the vaccine, because if he did,
it's probably a vaccine cardiac arrest. And the second thing
I told Tucker, and you know, I'm the only doctor
in the world to say this in the media. Within
twenty four hours, I said, he's going to be fine, Tucker,
He's going to walk out of the hospital, be just fine.
And everybody dropped their jobs. Everyone dropped their jobs. He said,

(45:49):
doctor McCullough, how do you know that? How can you
say that? I said, this is because I'm a cardiologist.
I'm one of the best in the world and know
what I'm talking about. And when I say things on
national TV in prime time, I'm right. And I've done
this consistently through the pandemic. And I was right again
with DeMar Hamlin. Thank goodness he survived, and myself and

(46:11):
Michael Goodkin and other cardiologists. We wrote the bills doctors,
and we wrote the Buffet Evening News to put him
on record that he needed treatment. He needed treatment with
mccullor protocol, spike detoxification, get the spike out of the
heart and in critical drug called colchia scene culti. Seine
is a prescription drug, but it prevents the repeat mile
carditis from the vaccine. And what we've learned is that

(46:34):
some players can get away without getting a defibrillator. So
it turns out Hamlin never got a defibrillator. Now, Nick
Ui Chuchu at the USC player who had a vaccine
cardiac arresta on the USC basketball team, He wasn't so lucky.
He ended up getting a defibrillator. So did pilot Snow,
the American Airlines pilot who had a vaccine cardiak arrested
at THEFW airport. And I know Snow, I've actually interviewed

(46:57):
him and examined him. He got a defibrillator. Interestingly, of
all the vaccine cardiac arrests who got defibrillators so far,
to my knowledge, the defibrillator's never gone off again. So
it looks like if they can be saved and get
appropriate treatment again with mcclor protocol, they're going to be fine.

Speaker 4 (47:15):
And that's what I'm thinking is after that, And I
did seed to Chuck Records, so just for the record,
but he's now back playing, and now he's a starter.
And if you had that cardiac condition, it was something severe,
and it was anything other than the vaccine. I'm not
the best cardiologist, were not even the cardiologists. But how
do you get back to playing in a sport that

(47:37):
physical if you have some sort of heart condition other
than the vaccine being the course?

Speaker 3 (47:42):
Oh you know what, Jake, that's a great, great point
of analysis.

Speaker 2 (47:46):
You're right.

Speaker 3 (47:47):
So if he had undetected con general heart disease, hypertrophic cardiomopathy,
you know, co genital heart disease, he wouldn't actually be
able to improve as a player. He probably would have
been taken out. Let me tell you, these players are scrutinized.
They all get ekg's ultrasounds. I guarantee Hamlin went through
all kinds of studies, including an MRI. I bet they

(48:08):
were all normal. I bet his degree of vaccine inflammation
was very minor, And it was just bad luck that
he you know, he made that tackle at that time.
And what he should do is Hamlin should come out
and tell people, listen, I took the vaccine, this is
what happened. He can help so many people. Instead he's
he was, you know, went to the White House. He's
teaching little kids how to operate the fibrillators. And I

(48:31):
think the real moment came when he got interviewed by
Michael Strahan. Remember Michael Strahan used to play on The Giants.
Strahan asks tomorrow, He said, come on tomorrow, what caused
the cardiac arrest? And Damar kind of squirms and he goes, uh,
I don't want to go there. Yes, and I guarantee
right then and there he knew it was the vaccine

(48:53):
that causes Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (48:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (48:56):
Do you think he's being pressure not to mention that
it's the vaccine. That's my whole point. Is someone telling
you can't mention that vaccine is probably being the cause.

Speaker 3 (49:05):
Oh for sure. He was probably told you mentioned the
vaccine as the cause. Your days in the NFL are over.

Speaker 1 (49:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (49:13):
Man, know about methylene blue. You know, methylene blue is
a is an agent we use in patients. You know,
after cardiac transplant when they're in a problem called cardioplegia vasculoplegia.
It's been used by urologists to help dilate the urder

(49:35):
and pass a kidney stone, but I don't think it
has any regular basis in medicine. And people get distracted
with methylene blue and infrared light and all this stuff.
They need to get rid of the spike protein. Methylene
blue doesn't do that. You need to get rid of
it with natokhones, brumlin and curcumin. So mccollor protocol based
spike protein intoxification. You shouldn't get distracted with other things

(49:57):
that are far of foot.

Speaker 1 (50:00):
So we got to we people have to pay attention
to this and study this and then doctor they can
go to wellness The Wellness Company www dot tw w
C health slash courage.

Speaker 2 (50:18):
Right right right. You got to partner with that, don't you? Did?

Speaker 4 (50:21):
I saw what usually see the wellness center stuff with you.
Don't you have a partner with that?

Speaker 2 (50:27):
No? So uh.

Speaker 3 (50:28):
The Wellness Company UH is based out of book of Raton, Florida,
is actually a company that serves the entire country. And
there we have a chief medical board. So you know,
we've brought on doctor Drew Pinsky, he's a TV star doctor,
but also Kelly Victory, who's a former corporate medical officer

(50:49):
for many of the Fortune five hundred companies, Doctor Uh,
James Thorpe Uh a maternal fetal medicine physician, Harvey Risch
cancer epidemiologist, and then recently Alex Diaz. Alex Diaz is
considered the number one immigration doctor in the United States
and he's a pediatric imminologist elogist. So we're the only

(51:12):
company that has a very very highly qualified group of
doctors leading developments of the products, innovative solutions, both for
you know, a cute COVID nineteen bird FLW whatever is
coming next, and then the damage after the vaccine. So
go to the wellness Company, GWC, dot Health and Forward

(51:34):
Slash Courage.

Speaker 1 (51:35):
Yeah, doctor, we really appreciate it. I know you're you've
got things you've got to be doing now, but we
really appreciate you taking the time to be with us
and eye opening to say the least, and you're saving
a lot of lives.

Speaker 2 (51:49):
Thank you. I mean, it's definitely been my pleasure. I
appreciate that.

Speaker 1 (51:53):
There's no doubt in my mind. You're saving an enormous
amount of lives educating people to what the hell are
going on.

Speaker 3 (52:04):
So well, let's hope that that light prevails over darkness.
Our public health officials have to get it together, independent
media and doctors like myself. We've been carrying the load
of the entire nation. Do you know, not a single
chief of medicine in the United States, not a single
public health official has actually told Americans what they can

(52:25):
practically do to manage themselves to think about this. Zero
practical advice, none.

Speaker 4 (52:32):
But there just telling you about the next one, the foregoing.
They give you the foregoing gloom, but they're not telling
you exactly and that's all you hear today. And they
keep you, guys silenced. That's why I don't understand it.

Speaker 3 (52:45):
You know, they well know we can't be silenced if
we're with you, and I can tell you people are
turning to independent media. Right now, visiting my daughter in
San Diego, young people, we haven't turned on the TV
and then we know what Fox News is. The kids nowadays,
they're getting their information through independent media. So you guys

(53:06):
keep it up. You're doing great work.

Speaker 1 (53:08):
Well, Thank you very much, doctor again, thank you very
much for joining us. We'd love to have you back
whenever you have time. Thank you.

Speaker 3 (53:17):
He's great.

Speaker 1 (53:19):
Oh my god, man, that's incredible.

Speaker 3 (53:22):
It is incredible. It's like a lot and have.

Speaker 1 (53:29):
Exactly, yes, exactly, thank you. Yeah, you know, detective and
Middlars from My Buffalo Retired does a lot of the
things from a background for us backstage, and she was
instrumental in having the doctor appear. I've met.

Speaker 5 (53:50):
He's a great guy.

Speaker 3 (53:51):
He's signed a book for me.

Speaker 1 (53:53):
Oh really yeah yeah, Okay, so, uh, we're gonna go
to break but we're gonna we'll be back and we've
got uh Jennifer from last week with us with an
update on the on a murder that ruled suicide. So
stay with us. Okay, we're back. Boy. That was very enlightening.

(54:19):
I would love to know the people got to go
to the Willerness Company. This combination of iramic and a
bend as whole seems very very interesting.

Speaker 2 (54:33):
You know.

Speaker 1 (54:34):
So do you guys have any thoughts?

Speaker 2 (54:37):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (54:38):
And what he said you want to Well.

Speaker 4 (54:40):
He put himself out there on the front line very
early on with this, and you know, yeah, you got
to praise him for that. He He's one of the
few guys who came out to try to say eat
this country. And you know they came after him for it.

Speaker 2 (54:56):
They sure did.

Speaker 1 (54:59):
Yeah. As a as a matter of fact, Joe Rogan
saying that in the very beginning was right on the money.

Speaker 2 (55:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (55:09):
So can you imagine if we would have had him
instead of doctor Fauci leading away and Deborah Burke's you
know who was fraudulent and now look where they're at
and look what doctor McColl's doing. Oh, actually, what this
country would.

Speaker 1 (55:24):
Be absolutely absolutely Hey, have you heard anything from Ralph.

Speaker 2 (55:34):
Not since early I don't know how much he.

Speaker 4 (55:40):
As far as what he's doing today at the court hearing,
with which I've been saying a long time, the craftman
has been withholding exculpatory evidence, tampering with heaviness and everything
else like that.

Speaker 2 (55:53):
Hopefully he's getting caught. Him and Patricia Cummings when they
did that big report at.

Speaker 4 (56:01):
Trying to allege that the prosecutorial misconduct and the lord,
you know, trying to make their claims that the former
das and cops work corrupt. It's actually they are doing
everything that they alleging the police officers and former das
are doing it. That's actually how christ is. And it's
supposed to be a breast conference to see if they

(56:22):
can get all those not a press conference hearing to
see if they could get those documents. And a judge
who I've known for quite some time, you know, not personally,
but I've been been in her company.

Speaker 1 (56:37):
She's not going to blame his underlinks for that. He's
not gonna.

Speaker 4 (56:43):
Eventually see what I'm hoping. And I'm not sure what's
going to happen, but it's like this guy, Jerry Rocks.
They can do all this stuff right now when they
go against someone like me, and it's just like you know,
someone that's famous as doctor mccullor. They can suppress our
speech and keep us in the background and things of
that nature, and and then all their underlings go along

(57:07):
because there's no consequences.

Speaker 2 (57:08):
For their actions.

Speaker 4 (57:09):
But if you start getting if you get a good
US attorney and you get all this political nonsense out
of it, and you get the government criminally, because that's
what that's what they've been running throughout this country, a
bunch of criminal enterprises that's intertwined. If you get them
to struggling after each other, then all of them underlings
you talk about with Krashner, they're gonna protect themselves. You

(57:31):
know what, the first thing a rat do they jump
off the ship when it's going down. They are already
trying to get off Krashners ship. Just with this child
rapists endorse them.

Speaker 2 (57:42):
That was a scam.

Speaker 4 (57:43):
You got a child rapist endorse them. He scheduled the
sentencing two days after he gets elected or or after
the primary, so it has no political consequences to him,
And then it gives this guy a sweetheart deal, maybe
even ard. And I've been a part of these public
officials raping their their their grandchildren and some biological children.

(58:09):
This guy should he should have had his belly vote.
Why didn't the DA argue for his belly vote? Why
is a child rapist allowed to even be anywhere he
should be getting I.

Speaker 2 (58:19):
Can't say that because I'm alleged, I'm promoting criminal activity.
But he should be in jail the bottom line, and
maybe I don't think no one he should be someone's
child right now.

Speaker 1 (58:33):
Yeah, I don't think there's any question about that. But
it really boils down to the fact of getting a
US attorney in Philadelphia that has big balls.

Speaker 2 (58:45):
Yeah, Well, if they get a US attorney, if they
get Booketto, I honestly believe, and I'm not saying I
don't know. If I don't know, I don't know anything
about it.

Speaker 4 (58:55):
I don't want to step on paying Bonnie's or George
or anyone else's tools.

Speaker 2 (59:00):
As far as reather happened.

Speaker 4 (59:01):
Now, Well, one thing I do though, I think I
would have a good chance of being like an Elion Musk,
like the Doge, of getting Krashner in the US Attorney's office.

Speaker 2 (59:11):
If we get someone like a George Boketto, I.

Speaker 1 (59:16):
Feel I'm frustrated for the people that are trying to
you know, you've done a lot, uh You've put a
lot of your time and effort and your life into
you know, attacking the you know, attacking the corruption there
and ralphas and everything he can to document that.

Speaker 4 (59:41):
But now you know what, it's like, we're all part
of the same tree. And it's just like doctor McCulla
just said, you know, I keep going back to him.
You know he's in San Diego right now. You're saying
his kids don't even know Fox News. It's people like
us because they realizing that they've been lied to whether
it's about the Spike h team, whether it's Tomorrow Hambling,

(01:00:02):
whether it's Lad Krasner, whether it's whatever we talked about.
You know, Trump and them just starting to talk about
fitting all and in tariffs on China and can China,
Canada and Mexico. We've been talking about candy fitting all
and how many hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people
that has been killing for three four five years now

(01:00:22):
on this show. So I think we're making progress, no.

Speaker 2 (01:00:27):
Matter how small it is. That's snails pace, but I
think we can get it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
I think definitely making progress. It's just frustrating to see
that blatant corruption happen, I mean medical corruption that we
just had on before, you know, But.

Speaker 4 (01:00:42):
John, that's what they want. They want us to be frustrated,
lose our way, stop fighting. You know, if they can
get through this next four years and we stop fighting,
where are we going. What's gonna happen to doctor mccolor,
what's gonna happen to Derek Jacobs, What's gonna happen to
John Sneddon, What's gonna happen to Sandy mcnannel, What's gonna
happen around Cypriato.

Speaker 2 (01:01:01):
Yeah, okay, fine, So.

Speaker 1 (01:01:04):
Maybe we can revisit this after this, but I wanted
to yes again. I will preface this this interview by this. Imagine.
Imagine waking up to the sound of a gunshot. Imagine
being a child, confused, terrified, and unaware that in a

(01:01:26):
single moment, you're like your entire life had just changed forever.
That was the morning my siblings and I lost our mother,
Don Caravello in nineteen ninety. She was found dead from
a gunshot wound to her abdomen in her bedroom. She
was face down, lying on top of the shotgun, something

(01:01:47):
that defied the laws of physics, and yet within hours
authorities ruled it a suicide. No investigation, no friend is testing,
just a decision to close the case before it even
truly began. Chanel, can you bring Jen? Gets up? Jen?

(01:02:11):
How you doing?

Speaker 5 (01:02:12):
I'm good? How are you?

Speaker 1 (01:02:14):
That's great? Hey? Your eyes side?

Speaker 3 (01:02:15):
What?

Speaker 5 (01:02:17):
I came outside because I was worried that somebody would
come into my office. Oh, okay, seventies, it's pretty nice.

Speaker 1 (01:02:26):
Jen.

Speaker 2 (01:02:26):
Are you.

Speaker 1 (01:02:29):
Comfortable telling us what your profession is now?

Speaker 5 (01:02:31):
By the way, yes, I'm a social worker.

Speaker 1 (01:02:34):
Okay, great, awesome, So we got a lot of people
today that are helping a lot of other people. You know,
absolutely not totally selfless, which is awesome. So uh, you know,
you deserve all the help in the world, and I

(01:02:56):
wanted to I know, we've had some some conversations since
we spoke with you last week in regard to some
information that has come to light since then. Or you know,
if we could, if you could mention your father had

(01:03:18):
was kind enough to relate to you a circumstance, right, yes,
could you tell us what that is? What that was?

Speaker 2 (01:03:27):
Sure?

Speaker 5 (01:03:28):
So in December, when I started looking into everything with
my mom's death, one of the first things I did
was call my dad and asked him some questions about it.
And he acknowledged that I'm an adult now and so
there were some things that I didn't know as a
child because obviously it just wasn't appropriate. But he told

(01:03:51):
me after my mom died that the boyfriend frequented the
bars in Kokomo and was bragging about it and said
that my dad was next on the list.

Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (01:04:07):
And now they were concerned about you, right, your your
your family was concerned about your wellbeing. Right? Did they
have anything, did they do anything? To safeguard you.

Speaker 5 (01:04:22):
So after I moved in with my aunt and uncle,
he would drive back and forth in front of the
house and would walk around the house. So my aunt
and uncle put me and my cousins on the living
room floor to sleep at night time, while my uncle
stayed up holding a gun to make sure that I
was safe.

Speaker 1 (01:04:43):
Oh my god. So the boyfriend's name. I mean, you know,
you're more than our audience is more than welcome to
watch last week's episode, which is very you know, we
go through some of the things. I'm we can reiterate
some of them, but you know at the time, Uh,

(01:05:05):
this is Indian Indiana, Morgantown, Indiana, right, yes, Can I
ask just for a reference like cocoam how far is
a Cocomo away from Morgantown?

Speaker 5 (01:05:19):
I think it's about an hour and a half.

Speaker 1 (01:05:22):
Okay, So your mom, you you know yourself, you're three,
and remind us again how old your siblings were and they.

Speaker 5 (01:05:34):
That were there twelve ten and seven?

Speaker 1 (01:05:39):
Okay, twelve ten, seven and three.

Speaker 2 (01:05:44):
You have this happened.

Speaker 1 (01:05:49):
They and you have it in your We'll have to
show your website then, but let's get get this through
this first. The uh, you hear the shotgun and the
kids go to our bedroom, right, yes, okay, and you
find her with a shotgun under her body, yes, right, okay?

(01:06:11):
And do you remind do you remember how tall your
mom was? I mean, I know we have the autopsy report,
but do you remember how tall your mom was?

Speaker 5 (01:06:20):
Yes, we are the same. So we're both five two.

Speaker 1 (01:06:24):
So she's five to two and she's alleged to have
shot herself with this shotgun. I mean, we'll get into
that in a little bit, but it does defy physics,
you know, unless her arms are you know, six feet

(01:06:48):
you know, and she didn't have super long arms, right,
I'm not sure, No doubt it anyway, so five being
five to two wouldn't be indicative of you having arms
that are a length that's appropriate for five foot two person,

(01:07:08):
which makes it virtually impossible. But I you know, Jake,
when I first heard that, the okay, the boyfriend, and
his last name is Graves. What's his first name? What
was his first name?

Speaker 5 (01:07:25):
Joseph, but he went by Joe.

Speaker 1 (01:07:27):
Okay, Joe Graves, who passed away in twenty thirteen, right, yes, okay,
So he had a truck. I just want to recap
this a little bit. You guys run downstairs or to
her bedroom, you find the shotgun under her body. Joe Graves,

(01:07:50):
the then boyfriend has a pickup truck, and if I
understand it correctly, the shotgun was normally in a pickup truck, Yes,
in a gunwrack uh okay. And the truck was in
a in a.

Speaker 5 (01:08:09):
Car port when he was there. Yes, he would park
in the car port.

Speaker 1 (01:08:14):
Right, And that there was a did you say there
was snowfall?

Speaker 5 (01:08:19):
Yes, it was actively snowing that morning, okay?

Speaker 1 (01:08:23):
And there were no uh footprints with the exception of
your siblings try to reach the neighbor, right, Yes, And
if I understand it correctly, it was relatively moderate to
heavy snow and that there were that were the only

(01:08:45):
foot prints in the snow. But yet you guys heard
a truck leave shortly thereafter after finding your mom, right, Yes,
But they're attributing the suicide. The news reports say that

(01:09:07):
they attribute the suicide to the fact that there were
only one set of footprints.

Speaker 4 (01:09:13):
But I believe that last week that the car the
carport was covered and it wouldn't have been any snow
there anyway.

Speaker 1 (01:09:22):
Right, His footprints from the house to the carport. It
wouldn't be it wouldn't have been in the snow, right, correct. Okay,
So now we've got Jen's father disclosing, and I understand
his concern in regard to your age to release that information.

(01:09:46):
But we have him saying that Joe Graves, the boyfriend
then was in Kokomo at the bars bright about it basically, yes,
and that your father would be next, yes, which is

(01:10:06):
an admission. I mean, they've got to go grab people
that heard that, right.

Speaker 5 (01:10:14):
Yes, That's what I'm hoping they will do.

Speaker 2 (01:10:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:10:18):
Now, we made a call to the commander out there
at Indiana State Police and we haven't heard it back yet,
and we'll follow that up with an email so to
see if we can't. You know, they have a great
reputation out there, and I'm sure it will be uh
you know, it'll it'll increase their reputation if they're able

(01:10:39):
to solve this thing, come to you know, actually based conclusion,
and it will be uh, you know, advantageous to all
law enforcement if they can you know, come to a
conclusion that is uh factor based certainly based on the

(01:11:03):
information that just came to light, right, I mean, Jake,
I tried to chase down everybody that was in those
bars at that time or knew him, see if he
made those comments.

Speaker 2 (01:11:18):
I'm just wondering, Jen, are they saying that the reason?

Speaker 4 (01:11:22):
Did they give you a reason or did we inquire
into why the Indiana State Police never picked up the
investigation in the beginning. I don't know if you have
they spoke with your father, Did they ever interview him?
I mean, I know they You're now well past three
years old, so a lot of those questions you probably

(01:11:43):
couldn't have asked when you were three. But those are
questions we know the relationship possibly between the investigator and
mister Graves. It seems like there were so many conflicts
there that the Indiana State Police should have automatically picked
it up because it seemed like this this was a
known they were known to be acquaintances in some manner.

(01:12:07):
So did they tell you, as they gave you, any
update as far as why they're picking it up now
in this way to.

Speaker 5 (01:12:16):
Just long to do so if you know, my assumption
is originally is that it wasn't picked up by the
State Police because it was closed within hours. So her
estimated time of death was six oh five in the morning.
Her autopsy was done around nine ish, and that that

(01:12:37):
was really it. As far as whether the police talked
to my dad, I did ask my family individually if
they spoke to the police, and nobody in my family
spoke to the police.

Speaker 1 (01:12:50):
Wow. I just first of all, I find it incredible
that the gunshot wound, it took place at six five
in the morning, and they had an auptopsy done at
nine o'clock in the morning. I mean, all the homicides
I've had or death and investigations, you know, we don't

(01:13:10):
have the autopsy done in three hours.

Speaker 2 (01:13:14):
I probably wouldn't be I would have still been in
the scene or somewhere.

Speaker 1 (01:13:16):
I mean, that's insane, or I have been anyway. I mean,
you know, it's just incredible.

Speaker 4 (01:13:24):
So the fact that your uncle was guarding you guys
for a reason, He wasn't guarding you because your mom
committed suicide.

Speaker 2 (01:13:31):
Yes, you know. It's just there's a lot of questions
I have here that should have been answered long before now,
and I wish you would have got closure.

Speaker 4 (01:13:43):
Long before now. And hopefully you can get closure because
evidently the gentleman mister Graves is now no longer with us,
is a cop. Is this cop friend with us?

Speaker 2 (01:13:52):
She's still alive?

Speaker 5 (01:13:53):
Well, he's dead too, No, he died a year later.

Speaker 1 (01:13:55):
Okay, what you know if you didn't watch the O
from last week. Uh, just to give you an idea,
I mean, the boyfriend had a relationship with Jen's mom obviously,
but she also had a relationship with the investigator of

(01:14:18):
the other detective or whatever that showed up, which complicates
the whole the whole landscape. But if you have somebody
running around, did your father did he? You know, obviously
they're protecting you. Do you have any idea how far

(01:14:42):
was that immediate or like within the first within the
week of when when she died?

Speaker 5 (01:14:50):
He didn't give me a time frame. I know that
Joe grew up in Kocomo. I'm not sure what brought
him to Morgantown. He's been to Morgantown a few times
space off of what I found online, but I know
that he went back to Cocomo after mom died.

Speaker 1 (01:15:07):
Okay, so I know we uh, because he must have
been talking in the bars that caused that got back
to your father. They then got back to your relatives
to protect you, right, So I mean this was that

(01:15:27):
wasn't a couple of year difference and time frame, right,
it was, you know, relatively soon. But there's there's a
You got some information relative to the medical examiner, right,
Doesn't he have a checkered history?

Speaker 5 (01:15:46):
Yes? Actually so he He has a malpractice case from
the same year that my mom died in and then
when I looked up his liability insurance, he has six
claims altogether.

Speaker 1 (01:16:03):
Oh my god, And did you say that? Did he
also had several DUIs or something or yes?

Speaker 5 (01:16:10):
So in twenty seventeen he was pulled over for driving
under the influence. He had organs in his cars. So
he definitely made the front page of the newspaper along
with his mug shot.

Speaker 2 (01:16:25):
Man, we got to get that.

Speaker 1 (01:16:27):
Is that in your in the body of your website
or not?

Speaker 5 (01:16:31):
It No, it's not, but I do have it on
my Google drive.

Speaker 1 (01:16:39):
Yeah, okay, And we can't no, we can't bring that upright, Yeah, okay.
So you've got a medical examer that hels it has
a hell of a lot of problems. There's the shotgun,
by the way, So we've got a hell of a
lot of a medical examiner has a hell of a
lot of problems. A boyfriend that has, if I understand

(01:17:04):
it correctly, had drug problems, some.

Speaker 5 (01:17:06):
Drug problems, yes, and I will add in the coroner
he's also he also passed away, but he had a
few d w i's that I found.

Speaker 2 (01:17:21):
Was he selling organs?

Speaker 1 (01:17:22):
I mean, yeah, what kind of organs were in there?

Speaker 2 (01:17:26):
Uh?

Speaker 5 (01:17:26):
So his wife commented on the newspaper article and said
that he was transporting them and that he had a
really bad day. That's all I read.

Speaker 1 (01:17:36):
But we don't know what type of what organs they were? No, wow,
m hum, well they're not Were they in were they
in a refrigerated entity? I mean refrigerated container or something?

Speaker 5 (01:17:59):
I want to say. They did comment on that and
then newspaper, but it's been a couple months since I
read it, so I'm not entirely sure whether it.

Speaker 1 (01:18:08):
Was or was not. I can't even imagine somebody trying
to pass that off as you know, transporting organs to
be transplanted.

Speaker 4 (01:18:26):
Well, the fact that you're right, there's no investigation. The
story is I'm drunk, but I had a really bad day.
So no further questions regarding organs, the hearts, pig.

Speaker 2 (01:18:39):
Feet, I mean, what are they? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:18:43):
Okay, let's it's it's human organs, right, yes, okay, so
we've eliminated that. I mean, why would you be driving
around in your car as a medical examiner drunk with
body parts human body parts in your all right, while
I mean this was a couple of years after it happened, right,

(01:19:06):
So but we've got but we still have the boyfriend
going to bars an hour and a half away approximately
in Cocomo, telling people that you know he he did this,
and that you know your father is next. Did your

(01:19:27):
father have occasion to tell any law enforcement entity there
about that?

Speaker 5 (01:19:33):
He says he did not.

Speaker 1 (01:19:36):
Oh my god, so he didn't police, did anybody? Yeah?

Speaker 5 (01:19:40):
No, the case had already been closed, and my family
just thought that it was there was no use, that
nothing would happen anyway.

Speaker 2 (01:19:49):
And it seems like it's a serious corrupt town.

Speaker 4 (01:19:51):
When when your medical examine his driver driving around with
body parts the investigators related to the drug, the town drug.
It then happens to be on the same investigation. The
autopsy is done in two hours and fifty five minutes. Yeah,
it makes no sense. I mean, you don't get a chance.

(01:20:14):
And it's in a snowstorm. So how did the body
just get there? Did he do an autopsy? You said
it was a moderate too pretty heavy snow day.

Speaker 5 (01:20:24):
You know, I didn't think about that until you just
pointed it out. So it took paramedics forty five minutes
to arrive, It took the investigating officer an hour and
twenty minutes to arrive. Yet her autopsy was fairly quick.
I didn't connect that until just now.

Speaker 1 (01:20:40):
So didn't they.

Speaker 3 (01:20:42):
Her residue gone residue?

Speaker 2 (01:20:44):
No?

Speaker 1 (01:20:46):
Well, I you know we've gone back and you know
we've been running through this thing. I mean, you know,
where the hell's mister Graves truck?

Speaker 2 (01:20:59):
Right? You know?

Speaker 1 (01:21:00):
Did they do any of the did they take fingerprints
off the shotgun? She was shot in the abdomen, which
she you know, with child.

Speaker 4 (01:21:14):
When I didn't see any markers on the photos, so
I'm not even sure if they collected the shotgun in
a manner which would have preserved the integrity you have
the of the shotgun, as far as prints, DNA, whatever
the case may be, from the looks at the photos there.

Speaker 1 (01:21:31):
Yeah, okay, so your father has never been interviewed by
law enforcement out there?

Speaker 2 (01:21:41):
No? Wow?

Speaker 1 (01:21:46):
So okay, now you have you have three siblings right, yes, okay,
and they're all still with us.

Speaker 5 (01:21:56):
My oldest sister passed away in twenty eleven.

Speaker 1 (01:21:59):
I'm sorry to hear that. Okay, so she was twelve
at the time.

Speaker 2 (01:22:03):
Is that the one?

Speaker 1 (01:22:05):
Yes, utual?

Speaker 2 (01:22:06):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (01:22:08):
But the ten seven and yourself three are still with us, yes, okay.
And have they ever been interviewed?

Speaker 4 (01:22:19):
No, Jake, did isp give you any timetable of what
they're going to do, how long they believe it may take.

Speaker 2 (01:22:33):
They probably wouldn't, but I'm just asking the question.

Speaker 5 (01:22:37):
No, I haven't actually spoken to them yet since I've
gotten word that it's been open.

Speaker 2 (01:22:43):
Okay. Do you get the name of an investigator?

Speaker 5 (01:22:45):
I did?

Speaker 1 (01:22:46):
Okay, Yeah. I think at the very least they would
start interviewing everybody. I mean, we've we've said before, you
know that relationships change and some of the grapes is

(01:23:09):
I mean, despite the fact that he made admit an
admission at this at these bars, right, I mean, I'm
sure he had some friends that then that are in
his friends now. So, uh, it would be reasonable to
assume that they would, you know, try to hunt them

(01:23:33):
down and interview them, right, because they haven't come forward
with your with the exception of your father telling you right, correct.
I mean, usually it's a circumstance that people don't rush
themselves to the you know, to the police department, to.

Speaker 2 (01:23:54):
You know, tell something.

Speaker 1 (01:23:55):
But if you show up and ask a question, others.

Speaker 4 (01:23:58):
What I'm hoping they're doing is day rapping their heads
around all the evidence that they have in front of them,
whether it's documents, you know, whatever they got from the
crime scene, the autops and everything else. So at least
they have an ideal of what to ask you about,
maybe what the act your siblings, about your dad, about
the people in the bar. I'm sure most of them

(01:24:19):
probably are not with us either.

Speaker 1 (01:24:24):
Okay, you know, I asked Jen, I asked you earlier
if the if the residence is still standing, and you
said that it was raised.

Speaker 5 (01:24:35):
Right, correct, it was torn down a few years after, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:24:41):
And then when you i mean, you did a little
research and you could find a picture of it on Google, Right,
did you say that?

Speaker 2 (01:24:50):
Yes? Okay? And then.

Speaker 1 (01:24:54):
And you guys rented their property, yes, right, and they're
you were able to get a parcel number. But initially
they told you that the town said that the house
didn't exist or something.

Speaker 5 (01:25:09):
Correct, so I emailed multiple different departments within Morgan County
to see if anybody would have a record of the home.
My intention was is to try and get the floor
plan because I was curious if how I remembered it
was correct. I figured it out that it is correct.
It was just backwards. But all the responses that I

(01:25:32):
received from everybody in the county was that they had
no record of that address ever existing. And so I
pushed back a little.

Speaker 2 (01:25:40):
Bit and.

Speaker 5 (01:25:42):
One of the women that I was speaking with went
above and beyond and found an aerial photo of the
house back in nineteen eighty six, but nothing else showed
that the house was there. And so she showed me
that photo and said, I see the house, but we
just don't have record of that address.

Speaker 1 (01:26:02):
Okay, Jake, I find that weird. I mean, you know,
somebody had to be paying taxes, right, So yeah, Lindy
uh And she's saying, is there a website to see this? Indro?

Speaker 2 (01:26:19):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (01:26:20):
Uh? Jen, what's your what's your website? It's Justice for
Every Family, Justice the number for Everyfamily dot com. Okay,
I mean you can review the documents the uh and
uh Gen's blog there, which is very very well written.

(01:26:47):
I mean, there's there's no doubt about that. So and
it's heartbreaking, Yeah, true to taxes, utilities, and insurance.

Speaker 2 (01:27:03):
I mean, from.

Speaker 1 (01:27:05):
Having an autopsy take place two hours and fifty five
minutes after the event, nobody being interviewed. They now say
that the house didn't exist. They never talked to the apirs,

(01:27:26):
the medical examiner. Is you know Duy with human body
parts in his car?

Speaker 2 (01:27:36):
Yeah? Oh, I mean, I know you said it was
a small town. Jen, how many young people in that
town because it seems like it's a lot of corruption
and everybody might be taking i mean, taking care of
each other.

Speaker 5 (01:27:50):
It's less than five thousand, I want to say it's
like three thousand people back in nineteen ninety, I believe
it was.

Speaker 2 (01:27:58):
Wow, so one thousand people you got, the medical exam
you got, I mean, how large was the police department?
Was it justice one investigator who's always on call?

Speaker 5 (01:28:11):
So I kind of thought so at first, But then
I saw so his shift was nine pm to five am.
It was put in the newspaper. But then there was
a police department outside of him because he was the
town marshal. But it took me some time to find
that out. I just don't know how many they had

(01:28:33):
on staff, so he pretty.

Speaker 2 (01:28:36):
Much probably ran this little corrupt town.

Speaker 1 (01:28:39):
Yes, boy gives you you know, Texas to me and
chainsaw massacre vibes. You know, I mean for somebody to
get away with that, You know.

Speaker 2 (01:28:54):
What I mean?

Speaker 1 (01:28:55):
The uh Okay, the Indiana State Police that that you've
made contact with, indicated to you that they were going
to reopen it. Where are they located, you know the town.

Speaker 5 (01:29:06):
That they're in, Bloomington.

Speaker 2 (01:29:08):
And how far is.

Speaker 1 (01:29:09):
Bloomington from Morgantown?

Speaker 5 (01:29:13):
I think fifteen to twenty minutes.

Speaker 1 (01:29:15):
Oh my god, Yeah, that's pretty close. Have you let
me ask you this? You know, your your website is
very well done. Your blogs are very well written. You know,
you convey the the circumstances very clearly. Have you had

(01:29:40):
anybody reach out to you as.

Speaker 5 (01:29:42):
A result of that yet, like for other podcasts or journalist.

Speaker 1 (01:29:50):
No, no, no, No, for witness uh for witnesses and
things of that nature.

Speaker 2 (01:29:54):
No, because a part of your part of your endeavors
is to keep just from happening to other people. Is
that correct?

Speaker 5 (01:30:02):
Yes, that is the only reason I'm still talking. Because
the case has been open, not much more awareness I
need in that area because the state police has taking
it over. What I would like to do now is
ass laws to prevent this from happening to other families.

Speaker 1 (01:30:19):
Okay, so it hang on a second. It's the uh
was your was your mom uh embalmed? Or was she cremated.

Speaker 5 (01:30:31):
Embalmed?

Speaker 1 (01:30:33):
Do you know where her barrel site is? Yes? Okay,
because we have a couple of other questions here. Is
it possible to do have found raiser to exhume the
body and have an independent autopsy? Would that be feasible
and worth the efforts? Not sure the cost on something
like that. Yes, you can have that done, but I

(01:30:54):
don't know what the condition of the body is. Now,
you know you're you've got thirty years right, so we're yeah,
we are trying to publish or publicize this. You need

(01:31:14):
to start a TikTok and Kane publicity.

Speaker 4 (01:31:16):
Yes, yeah, exactly. You're not the only one in this position.
And and the fact that it seems to me all
you really want, jen because most of the people involved
are no longer with us. But this kind of investigation,
which is terrible, even even if it was the way
that they said it was, the optics of it doesn't

(01:31:40):
look closer to me. And uh, and I've done these investigations,
and you know there's different things in each investigation. It
just seems like everything here and when I say everything,
I mean everything here was done incorrectly. Now wasn't done
incorrectly because they just already had a predetermined result.

Speaker 2 (01:32:02):
Well that's not what we do. Yeah, that's not what
we do.

Speaker 4 (01:32:07):
You know, you never have a predetermined inclusion when you're
going into an investigation. You just don't, because I would
never do it. Can I say investigators across the country
are going to say the same thing or do the
same thing. No, because everything is different. All your well
it's going to be different. All your crime scene is
going to be different. Your GESR may be different, they

(01:32:32):
may be different. You know, you might think one thing's
a suicide and one thing it's a homicide, and everything
lays the same exact way, but it's one thing while
you're doing something. So it just seems to me that
it was already predetermined to say that your mom committed
suicide and no one did anything, No one, I mean

(01:32:55):
no one not. You were three years old, so of
course you had nothing to do with this, But no
one in authority or who had some sort of state
and your mom did anything. And I think that what
you're doing now is admirable because you're trying to weigh
awareness to this type of thing to hope that if
something like this happens in the future, they'll get a

(01:33:19):
lot more effort than was given to your mom.

Speaker 1 (01:33:22):
Yeah, I mean this is this is not a guy
that was our job or a woman that was out
jogging and just collapsed.

Speaker 2 (01:33:29):
Right, you're no.

Speaker 1 (01:33:31):
I mean there's a big difference. There's a hlatious difference.

Speaker 4 (01:33:36):
I mean for them not to even talk to the neighbors.
I mean, you got children here, you got three, seven, ten,
and twelve. Okay, we're not going to them right now.
Their mother just died. But uh, what time did the
kids get over here? It's it's so many damn questions
I have by that. Yeah, I would have never been
able to get you to Ja by nine o'clock.

Speaker 1 (01:33:54):
Jack. It gets worse. It gets worse because the neighbor.

Speaker 2 (01:34:01):
It's not made some.

Speaker 1 (01:34:06):
Questionable comments, right right, jan Yes, what could you tell me?
Tell that again?

Speaker 2 (01:34:13):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (01:34:14):
What the next So I found her in January and
we were talking through text, and so I was asking
her questions. Her responses seemed a little odd. She was
very short, dismissive, and would kind of skirt around some
of my questions. So one of the questions that I
had was did Joe Was Joe friends with Jim, which

(01:34:41):
was the officer, And her response was, well, Joe knew everyone.
That wasn't what I asked. I asked if they were friends?
She I don't know, it just it fell off.

Speaker 2 (01:34:56):
Was she friends with Joe? Didn't Joe?

Speaker 5 (01:34:59):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:35:02):
My money's on yes, probably, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:35:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:35:10):
You know you've got a overhead photograph of the residence
from nineteen ninety is that right? Or nineteen eighty I
think it was nineteen eighty six, nineteen eighty six. Did
anybody live with the neighbor at the time, I mean

(01:35:32):
the closest neighbor, the woman that you talked to. Did
somebody live with her?

Speaker 5 (01:35:36):
I think she was married. And then there is another
neighbor that is an older woman who is the one
who drove us to the domestic violence shelter.

Speaker 1 (01:35:49):
Okay, so, oh god, there was a documented domestic abuse
by Graves against your mind prior to this.

Speaker 5 (01:36:04):
Correct and I was told that there was a history
with first responders going out to the home for frequent fights.

Speaker 1 (01:36:14):
Okay, So you know some people will be taken aback
by the fact that once your mom has suffered this
fatal injury, that they then take you to the domestic
violence center.

Speaker 2 (01:36:35):
Why did they do that?

Speaker 1 (01:36:37):
Why did they take you to a domestic violence center?

Speaker 5 (01:36:41):
That was before my mom died, when she took us
in December. So the intake note that you have that
you briefly reviewed on here that is from December when
we were at the shelter.

Speaker 1 (01:36:56):
Okay, and that's because of the fights between Joe Graves
and your mom.

Speaker 4 (01:37:03):
Yes, but even those things, I mean, I've had things
like when something like that occurs, where I go interview
the medics, the paramedics because PHILDLP is a little bigger,
and you know, try to get a handle on what
type of calls they had to your residence. You know,

(01:37:24):
just because it completes my file, it makes my case stronger,
no matter what the outcome of the investigation.

Speaker 2 (01:37:32):
Comes out to be.

Speaker 4 (01:37:33):
I cover that base because someone's gonna I always look
at someone's gonna ask me that question. Did you talk
to the people, did you go to the domestic abuse
Center from December when the kids in thene went there.
You know, when the little brother said that your mind
possibly gated wrong name whatever. You cover all bases and
it might check out and it might not. If it doesn't,

(01:37:55):
then you got to go check it out some other
kind of way. But you do the check. And none
of the checks was done here. I'll see all these
checks on this paper.

Speaker 1 (01:38:02):
Yes, so witnessed abuse as a child client, yes, abuse her? Yes, okay,
So how can you bring that down a little bit? Oh?
Wait a minute, abuse began? M up, No down, Sorry,

(01:38:26):
I meant down. Okay, so you know, listen, but there
was a section there that abuse began, but I think
it was Oh yeah, it's okay, after first year of relationship,

(01:38:51):
length of relationship one to three years. They this is
filled up by the corner or the medical examiner.

Speaker 5 (01:39:05):
This is filled up from the intake caseworker of the shelter.

Speaker 1 (01:39:08):
Oh yes, sorry, yeah, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:39:15):
How did they know that the abuser was abused as
a child DoD They go to the intake center.

Speaker 5 (01:39:20):
Also, I think that my mom was probably just answering
questions to the best of her knowledge.

Speaker 1 (01:39:28):
The shelter pro Okay, okay, support group in the shortcut.

Speaker 5 (01:39:33):
I do want to go back to your predetermined comment.
So I have the dispatch log, and on the dispatch
log it says attempted suicide. So they knew before they
even got to the house that they were going to
say it was suicide.

Speaker 4 (01:39:49):
Where did they get that from? Your mom never called this?
What do you mean the dispatch log? Dispatch log? Was
your neighbor calling now one one saying they do so?
So how did they know it was attempted suicide?

Speaker 2 (01:40:01):
That she was dead? Not dead? Whatever?

Speaker 5 (01:40:03):
She told them that?

Speaker 2 (01:40:05):
Who told them that? The neighbor?

Speaker 5 (01:40:07):
The neighbor and she called before she even got to
my house, So I'm not entirely sure how.

Speaker 2 (01:40:12):
She That's what I'm saying. All she had was the
fact that you that your siblings ran over to the house.

Speaker 1 (01:40:17):
And you know, yes, doesn't that sound hanked up to you?

Speaker 2 (01:40:23):
I'm just you know, just just question that should have
been asked that night.

Speaker 5 (01:40:28):
At the stage.

Speaker 1 (01:40:29):
Just what I'm thinking, Well, yeah, I mean, if they
have referred to it as a attempted suicide before they
even get.

Speaker 2 (01:40:39):
There, well that's why I'm wondering.

Speaker 4 (01:40:41):
Why wasn't the neighbor interview you know, because if she's
the one who made the nine on one call and
she said that, hey, the kids just ran over here,
their mom just shot herself attempted to commit suicide, and
she shouldn't.

Speaker 1 (01:40:54):
The evasive neighbor is the same one that made the
phone call.

Speaker 5 (01:41:01):
Yes, that's who we ran to for help.

Speaker 2 (01:41:06):
Yeah, boy, oh god.

Speaker 1 (01:41:09):
Well, I'm hoping that we get a response from Indiana
State Police, or at the very least gen gets one.
I mean to give her some idea of where they're headache.

Speaker 2 (01:41:27):
Well, I'm going to be honest.

Speaker 1 (01:41:28):
That's correct. Oh that smells yeah, I'll be.

Speaker 2 (01:41:31):
Honest with you. Not.

Speaker 4 (01:41:32):
What I believe is happening is I think your gender
is is, like I said, is something that should be commended.
Not to knock isp because, like to said, they are
good people. But you're going to look at someone who's
looking at what we just looked at, knowing they're going
to probably head down dead ends depending on whatever else

(01:41:54):
is going on, and then who's the powers that be
over them where they're going to place this in that
stack of files? So I wish that we do get closure.
I don't think it's something that's going to come soon.
But like I said, we can help other people like
you're trying to do, and like lending Luke said, that's probably.

Speaker 2 (01:42:18):
You know that we could save a life. Then that's
a good outcome.

Speaker 1 (01:42:23):
Yeah, I mean it's a it's a situation where you
want to at least let people know that you can't
do this.

Speaker 4 (01:42:36):
And to ask these type of questions when they look
at this show, when they look at jin and everything,
and when something said, then ask the type of questions
that we're asking.

Speaker 2 (01:42:44):
You know that they're basic questions. We're not asked.

Speaker 4 (01:42:46):
You know, we're not walking around the big detective magnifying glass.
You know, like it's like a who done it? It's
who what? When we're how why? And how simple? Ask
those questions and you know, see where they lead you,
you know, but to not ask those questions from the
very beginning, it's perplexing to me.

Speaker 1 (01:43:05):
Yeah, well you've got it. Now, You've got an admission
to a lot of human beings and a threat to
your father and a threat to you guys. You know,
you wouldn't have that on an attempted suicide.

Speaker 4 (01:43:25):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:43:26):
So if you're if you happen to listen to this
on Spotify or you're watching us on Rumble and you're
from Morgantown or from you're from Cocomo, or you were
there in the early nineteen nineties, or you know somebody

(01:43:50):
that was there in the early nineteen nineties. You know,
we would certainly hope that you would reach Jen through
her website of Justice for the Number four Every Family,

(01:44:10):
or you can certainly contact us through search Warrant podcast
dot com. We have a contact page. But it's very
important to try to, you know, get justice out of
this thing. You know, there's a lot more than there's

(01:44:32):
Jen and her siblings and people that were or have
been or are now susceptible the same kind of bizarre
set of circumstances, right, I mean it sticks out like
a sore though.

Speaker 2 (01:44:53):
Absolutely that autopsy was done by nine am iss.

Speaker 4 (01:45:00):
It's like, wow, I've never even on the expedited autopsy
in a high profile case. It's never been done that fast.

Speaker 1 (01:45:10):
I mean, you've got to get first of all, you've
got to get it as a law enforcement So you've
got to get a medical examiner that you feel comfortable
with or you know that has the expertise for what
you think you might be seeing.

Speaker 2 (01:45:25):
Well, even that medical exam. You had to get him sober,
he had to dump off his autopsy. How do you
get that done before nine a m.

Speaker 1 (01:45:35):
Do we know whose body parts he was driving around
with so crazy?

Speaker 5 (01:45:40):
No, it doesn't disclose that, I'm sure it doesn't.

Speaker 2 (01:45:45):
But it's like it was just stage. Everything was.

Speaker 1 (01:45:49):
Yeah, it's not one thing if you had a flow
chart or a timeline, a timeline, I mean, the first
thing is you know that he's there, the truck leaves,
the shotgun used to be in the car in the truck.

(01:46:12):
Then the neighbor calls and says it's attempted suicide. How
how the hell does she know that at six o
five and then you've got an autopsy at nine o'clock
in the morning.

Speaker 4 (01:46:25):
Jen, I'm not sure if they still with us, But
your mom's parents, did you ever have a chance I'm
not sure if they were with us, and what were
they not?

Speaker 2 (01:46:36):
Did you ever get a chance to talk to them about.

Speaker 3 (01:46:40):
So?

Speaker 5 (01:46:40):
My grandfather passed away a couple of years before my
mom did, so I'd never met him. And then my
grandmother had Alzheimer's.

Speaker 1 (01:46:52):
Any other does she have any did she? Did your
mom have any sisters or brothers?

Speaker 5 (01:46:57):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (01:46:58):
Have you talked to them or day round?

Speaker 5 (01:47:01):
Yes, I've talked to them.

Speaker 1 (01:47:03):
Are they from Indiana?

Speaker 5 (01:47:06):
Yes, they're all from Cocomo.

Speaker 2 (01:47:08):
What do they say about that town?

Speaker 1 (01:47:10):
Wow?

Speaker 5 (01:47:12):
I mean none of them actually went to Morgantown. They
just know that he moved her to Morgantown and there
was a cut off in communication, so he isolated her
for several months before she died. I mean that's typical
domestic violence.

Speaker 1 (01:47:28):
Yes, well, she's a very she was a very pretty
young woman. Yes, and so are you. Yeah, and Jen,
you have some serious tenacity.

Speaker 2 (01:47:44):
You know, I don't think. I don't think we heard
the last of Jen.

Speaker 1 (01:47:48):
Now.

Speaker 2 (01:47:48):
I can see that, uh, that website blowing up at
some point, even if.

Speaker 1 (01:47:52):
Yeah, you know, you know, we only have five minutes left,
but you know, uh, shan All, can you bring up
the website address? Please Justice for number four Everything in
case you're listening to us on Spotify, you've got to

(01:48:13):
go to Justify for the number four every family dot com.
I mean, it's it's a very thorough Gen's done a
very thorough job on this, you know, trying to recreate
what exactly happened through the facts that she has so far.

(01:48:36):
But I think you uh, you know, it takes more
than an hour to explain what.

Speaker 2 (01:48:42):
The hell is going on here?

Speaker 1 (01:48:43):
And uh, you know, believe me, you go to that
website Justice for number four every family dot com and
you're going to be shocked by the by the problems
in this case to you know, makes you almost want
to say that it's intentional, but you know it's not.

(01:49:08):
There isn't one problem, there aren't two problems. I mean,
it's like ten problems, right, you know. So again we've
reached out to the Indiana State Police. It's a Commander Stilly,

(01:49:28):
right John, Yes, that as I'm Commander Stilly, and he
was kind enough to reopen it. And you know, from
what I know that they have a great reputation and
you know, being a competent and an awesome law enforcement agency,

(01:49:52):
and we'd like to be able to report success that all,
you know, also add to their uh investigative prowess and
that of overall law enforcement.

Speaker 2 (01:50:09):
Then they do have a good reputation.

Speaker 4 (01:50:10):
They wanted a better state police in the country as
far as reputation goes.

Speaker 2 (01:50:14):
Yeah, that's good.

Speaker 5 (01:50:16):
That makes me feel better anybody in Indiana.

Speaker 4 (01:50:22):
Yeah, I know, but they do have I mean, I
understand you where you're coming from, but they do, and
hopefully they will put some of that investigative aacum into
use in this matter.

Speaker 1 (01:50:32):
Yeah, you know, I there's nothing worse than in law
enforcement you have an investigation when they're they're going to
ask you. You know, you get calls from people that hey,
what are you doing next? Hey, what are you doing?
You know, I have an investigative plan. Let me you know,
let me go with it, right And you know, the

(01:50:56):
reality of the thing is, you're trying to focus on
that case, but you got twenty five other things you
got to respond to at the same time. But to
keep the ball in the air, you know, that's all
we're asking, right, you know, Uh, it's got so many
problems that you can't deny that there are problems in

(01:51:18):
that case, and you know, to bring closer to that
so it won for the family and two so other
people realize that it can be uh, you know, made right.

Speaker 2 (01:51:35):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:51:38):
So okay, we gotta we gotta wrap Jen, thank you
very much again, you got to go to work website
that we mentioned earlier. Jake, thank you very much. And Sandy,
thank you very much. We've had two awesome guests today.
Thank you, Jen will stay in touch, will you?

Speaker 5 (01:51:58):
Yes, thank you, thank you,

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