Elena

Incarcerated at 21, Elena has served approximately 6 years of her 20 to 40 year sentence at SCI.
Muncy.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
We'd like to acknowledge for our listenersjust upfront that what you will hear from
individual incarcerated women throughout the episode youmay find to be emotionally charged and even
disturbing. So we just want toacknowledge that and make you aware of that.
Furthermore, something that listeners probably don'trealize is that all of our individual

(00:25):
conversations with each woman was recorded insidea maximum security prison, a State Correctional
Institution SCI Munsey in Pennsylvania here inthe United States. So the noise,
there's any chatter, anything in thebackground. For our listeners just to understand
that we actually recorded inside a prisonwhere the day goes on. The women,

(00:50):
the officers, the staff, theyall have their jobs. Just because
we're there, it doesn't stop.Well, everything becomes quiet. So if
you do, as listeners here anybackground noise, please understand that is part
of being inside a prison. Thankyou for listening to our podcast Self Identities

(01:19):
Conversations with Convicted Women. My nameis doctor Catherine Whiteley. I'm a feminist
criminologist and I'm visiting today the StateCorrectional Institution SCI Muncy. It's a state
prison in Pennsylvania for women and joiningme today is Elena. Welcome Elena.

(01:41):
How are you. I'm doing goodtoday, Yeah, doing well. Well.
I'd like you to share with theaudience. How long have you been
incarcerated? Sure? So, I'mElena. I came in to prison when
i was twenty one years old,a little bit shy, have my twenty
second birthday. And I've been incharsread for about sex years now, six
years and your sentence, my sons, is a twenty to forty year sentence.

(02:05):
Okay. So I'm going to askyou where were you born. I
was born in Somerville, New Jersey, New Jersey. Okay, okay,
So would you like to share withthe listeners a little bit about growing up?
What was it like for you?Sure? So. In kind of
growing up, it was actually kindof a bit of a mudel because we
moved around quite a lot until Iwas about in middle school. So from

(02:30):
New Jersey, moved to Texas untilabout the year two thousand and then we
actually moved to Switzerland for a yearwith my dad's job. So that that
was really beautiful place, very justshining and clean and just pristine. It's
just one of the best places inthe world. After that, my parents
were divorced, so we moved arounda little bit, shuffled between family,

(02:52):
and wound up in Pennsylvania for themost part. So growing up was I
guess it was a lot of contrast. There are some really really great moments
that I just loved. You know, Traveling a lot was one of the
best parts of it. We wereexposed to so many wonderful things. You
know, all over Europe and evenall over the United States are all our

(03:15):
various family members came from so manydifferent places, so we got a lot
of experiences from just all over theworld and all over the country. What
do you like about the traveling andthe learning of other cultures? What did
you enjoy the most? I think, of course, the food comes to
mind, and also just a senseof possibility that these things. It's like

(03:37):
no way of life is the onlyway of life, and there's so many
different perspectives that can inform how youview the world. So it's kind of
gives you more compassion. I thinkto think of, Okay, this is
how this person lives, but someoneelse lives a different way and loves it
just as much. So it's alsogood for you because if you don't like
one way that you're living, youcan see that there's so many different other

(03:59):
ops and you know this is notthe only existence that you have. You
know, there's so many different beautifulthings that you could be doing. Wow.
And what about education? Growing up? What was your education? Mostly
public schools. I went to avery good high school, and I had
a lot of really good advanced classes, and I think that was like a
really good experience for me, justknowing that there's ways to expand your mind

(04:24):
and also that there's lots of teacherswho would like to help you. So
I'd always had a very positive experience. And once I graduated from high school
and moved on to a private university, which was you know, I'm pretty
good standing, and that was justlike coming home for me, just to
all the different people there who understoodme on levels that hadn't been necessarily the

(04:45):
case before. So maybe people weremore like me who had seen more and
who are open to more things.What did you study? I studied Earth
and planetary sciences. Can you shareus a little bit about that? What's
the interest there? And your degree? So that was going to be a
bachelor's degree. The draw for meis I always wanted to be in space.

(05:05):
Space was something that I just loved, you know, just the possibility
and just all the different sciences thatwent into it. It was almost like
a like a feast where you couldbe into biology, you could be into
astrophysics, you could do all thesethings, and all that played a part
into what projects you would like tobe on. So I was focusing on
research, Mars research, and Iwas hopefully going to go into maybe some

(05:29):
of the Icy Moon research's research areaswhen I graduated and perhaps went to grad
school. So that was always alot of fun for me to seeing there's
just so many things that have tocome together, even to make something like
a lander or a rover. There'sjust so many different departments that have to
come together and work together. Andsome of the science is just unbelievable.
I believe that. And what aboutnow you incarcerated? How is the education

(05:54):
I suppose for you? Now?What are you doing now? I'm sure
you're studying and doing something like this, But could you share with the show
you've because why the sounds of youhave continued? Yes? So I completely
did a one eighty. So fromscience, I went to English and sociology
and that's kind of always been somethingthat I've had in the background. I've

(06:15):
always loved to write, I've lovedto create stories and any type of videos
or art or anything. I'm reallyinto just so many different types of art.
There's there's not a kit or sometype of skill that I haven't come
across that i haven't loved, soI've been focusing more on that. So
it's a correspondence school, which isvery different from what I was doing.
Instead of going into classes, youget coursework in. You read, you

(06:41):
do essays, and you take Proctertests and you kind of send that back
and forth through the mail. It'snot as robust. It's a lot slower,
you know, depending on stale mail. So it's it's very very slow,
but it's also something that's like avery positive way for me to focus
in here. Right, And couldyou just go back a little bit too,
just the few years ago when you'refirst incarcerated. Can you just share

(07:04):
with the listeners what was going throughyour mind when when you were sentenced,
Like, you know, was thereany what were the thoughts possibly you know,
prior to coming here, knowing thatyou would be sentenced for a long
period of time no I would besentenced. It was I was kind of
in a daze, but also somethingthat I went through very early on.
It was a lot of grief.It's hard to know that everything that you

(07:28):
had been working for is not necessarilyviable anymore, and kind of the identity
that you've built for yourself is goingto have to change. And the thing
is is that you very much donot want it to change. But you
have a choice. You know,you can start looking at the things that
you can do in a new environment, or you can just kind of deflate
and not do anything of your life. And looking at the sentence that I

(07:51):
had, it's just I almost imaginemyself, you know, maybe walking out
twenty years later and having done nothingof my life. And I knew that
that was just unacceptable. So Ihad to do something. And as painful
as it was, was also veryhumbling experience. I had to form a
new identity and learn to be allright with it. And you know,
I have thank you. And whatabout support from people on the outside or

(08:18):
you know, family friends, Canyou share a little bit about that and
the impact on you. Sure,my family has been very supportive, especially
my father, my brother, andone of my uncles, and I have
a lot of also very wonderful friendswho have been so supportive, you know,
even from the beginning, and I'mvery lucky to have had that,

(08:39):
because it's very hard to do anythinghere without support. You know, I
do a lot of art, butthat wouldn't be possible really if I didn't
have the resources to buy these thingsfrom the outside and be able to use
them in my cell and you know, and then also send them out to
my family, Say if I finisha painting, and the same thing of
college. I know pilgrims are recentlyreapproved, but prior to that you almost

(09:05):
have to have private means in orderto pay for some of these correspondence degrees.
So you know, I'm hoping thateverything will expand you know, not
that there's more funding, but it'sMy family is just been wonderful in terms
of how they've been willing to accept, you know, this new life that
I really have no choice but tolive so and they've just been so supportive

(09:28):
in that, just financially and alsojust emotionally. They they do their best
and it is a lot, yes, thank you of a morning when you
wake up, what goes through yourmind. Do what do you is the
things you look forward to? Youknow, would you like to share what
is like with you? It kindof like comes and goes. But one

(09:48):
of my favorite things to do isexercise, so you know, I have
a lot of focus on that earlyin the morning, just to kind of
get that done and then kind ofstart the rest of my day. But
if it's not that, then sometimesit's either it's either writing or school work.
If I'm doing a writing project,it kind of absorbs all of my
energy and all my attention, allof my motivation, and I just I
can't think of anything else. Sosometimes waking up to just write is one

(10:15):
of the things that I cherish most. You know. It's almost like sleep
just kind of gets in the way. I just want to get the sleep
over with so I can get backto, you know, what I was
doing right, And when you firstwere incarcerated, the first even going back
the first twelve months or so,how did you negotiate or navigate your way
you know here in the prison?Could you share that with everyone? Sure?
So, for the first six monthsof my incarceration, I was waiting

(10:39):
in county jail in the United States. If the listeners not familiar. You
go to county jail until you've beensentenced, and if your sentence is a
certain length, in this case,if it was over two years, you'd
go to state prison. So forthe first six months before I was sentenced,
I was in county jail and thatwas just the very fusing time.

(11:00):
I was not well mentally when Icame in, and it was a few
months of just very much confusion anddepression and just kind of darkness before I
came out of that and was ableto kind of start thinking again. It's
it's like my brain had to restart, and you know, after a couple

(11:22):
of months it did. And onceit did, I then had to try
to reconcile myself to this new realityto I've created, and you know,
there's no more denial, there's nomore I lost a lot of hope at
that point as well, So thenI had to find other things to live
for, other just see if there'sanything left the salvage, and so that

(11:43):
was kind of the first years ofmy incarceration was just like what can I
salvage? Is there something I wantto salvage? You know, Do I
care about anything anymore? And youjust touched briefly on about mental illness or
are you able to kind of sharewith us a little bit about that or
the traum if there was trauma.Sure, I think that I felt a

(12:09):
lot of pressure growing up, andI'm not sure if it was anyone in
particular, maybe just me trying toget control of the situations that I was
under. You know, everything feltvery out of control all the time,
and I formed some unhealthy cope mechanismsin order to deal with that. Mend

(12:30):
illness has just been a very difficultthing. I was put on medication at
an early age, and it waskind of on and off medications for a
while. I've been through multiple hospitalizationsthat didn't help very much. You know,
there's being hospitalized and then the followup is then just not very helpful.
You know, It's very hard tofind a bounce of medications, a

(12:52):
good psychologists that you can talk to, and I kind of got lost in
that model, I think, youknow, which is kind of going from
medication from medication, you know,therapist to therapists and never finding anything that
quite worked. And I think atthe bottom of all that is if you
aren't ready to fix yourself, ifyou don't see the value in yourself,
if you don't see the necessity inbecoming better, then nothing's going to work.

(13:16):
And nothing was working right and nowhere in Sei Monci, what care
do you have for Early on,when I came to Monthsie, there was
a very talented and compassionate psychologist whoI saw, and he started to help
me see kind of the acceptance necessaryin coming here and also kind of the

(13:43):
more positive aspects of things that Icould focus on, because I was very
negative and very much focus on whatI didn't have and the things that were
wrong instead of maybe the things thatwere right. So he started to shift
my view that I could get better, that things could change, that kind
of the place I was in wasn'tthe place I would stay. And then

(14:05):
after that different units, so welive on different units here, and you
know, each has a psychologist,so it's kind of lucky the drawl who
you get depending on where you are, And some of them have been absolutely
very helpful to me and just havehelped me kind of get through some of
the things I've been struggling with.And I also recently completed a trauma program.

(14:28):
Could you explain if you wouldn't mindfor endless. So most women women
have had some experience of domestic violence, whether that be through childhood or whether
it be through intimate partners later intheir lives, and it's very difficult to
deal with that because it leaves you, you know, sometimes post prost traumatic
stress disorder, sometimes with just reallybad feelings about yourself. So this program

(14:54):
called the House of Hope was veryinstrumental kind of helping me see the different
skills that maybe I needed to brushup on and also gave me a better
understanding of who I was. Andthey also provide more intensive like therapy and
things like that so that they couldkind of pick on some of the things
that maybe you're not doing so wellwith. Like for me, I was
not so good of change and notso good with kind of opening up to

(15:18):
new people and just being very kindof afraid of what would happen when I
did. And they kind of reallyhelped me along with that. They they
kind of showed me, like,you know, this is what you need
to do. You need to getbetter of change, you need to be
more open, you need to trustpeople, and you're not entirely you know,
not all at once, but youknow, give them a chance at
least, and could I ask wasthe trust based on past experience or is

(15:43):
it to do with the incarceration experienceitself? Who do you trust who not?
It's a little bit of both.There's definitely been some learning experiences here
where maybe people I thought, maybeI give them a cup of coffee and
expect them not to then turn aroundand say awful things about me, but
you know they do anyways. Soit's almost like you have to protect yourself
to some degree and decide what youwant to share and what you don't want

(16:04):
to share. But it's also justprior to me coming here, there's just
been times where I think I justlet people and who weren't necessarily good people,
and I assumed that they were goodpeople, but they kept doing these
hurtful things, and I didn't seeenough strengthened myself to stop that. I

(16:29):
just kind of thought it would change, and I just kept putting up with
just really bad behavior, just thinkingthat if I were better, maybe that
they would treat me better, orif I got them to treat me better,
that must mean that I'm wonterful enoughto deserve it. So would you
like to share with the listeners whenyou first came in, Who was Alana?

(16:51):
Who were you? I have tosay, I don't think I liked
myself very much. At that point, I had given up. I had
to take leave medical leave from school, and that just about did it for
me. I thought that there's noway i'd ever get back to school.
I thought there's no way that Iwould ever really be functional again, because

(17:14):
I was heavily medicated at the timeand also had a problem with alcohol.
So every day it was just kindof very bleak. I think it is
how I describe it, and Ididn't think. I mean, it was
hard for me to get out ofbed and function for a couple hours at
a given time without having to fallback asleep or take some other emergency medication

(17:37):
to kind of numb it all backout. So I mean, if you
can't even make it through an entireday, it just really complete who you
are as a person and doesn't reallyfeel like there's much left. There wasn't
many things I enjoyed doing anymore.Everything just seemed like a burden, or
it seemed impossible. Sometimes showering seemedpossible, sometimes, you know, just

(18:03):
figuring out how to get your laundrydone. Feel yeah, it's just too
much right. Thank you and thewoman that's sitting opposite me today in our
podcast series, And as I said, it's a pleasure to have you here.
Who are you today? I'm verydifferent. I've stopped making excuses for
why I can't do things, andI've actually just started doing them. I

(18:26):
don't procrastinate much anymore. I don'twake up thinking that this day is just
another day to get through. Youknow that I have hope again, and
also things that I really enjoy aboutmyself and know, you know, I
used to take certain things for granted. I used to take it for granted
that I could draw and right welland do all these things. And I've
realized that those are kind of thethings that I want to wake up to

(18:48):
in the morning. So there's thingsI've figured out how to appreciate more.
And just my focus in the daysis very much different most days anyways,
there's still some bad days in there. But and what about support, like
a support network here? Had youor do you find it challenging to build

(19:12):
friendships or could you share a littlebit about you know? Sure, so,
I guess kind of the way I'veapproached friendships and support And here is
if someone appears that they would liketo be supportive, that's you know,
one point in their favor, thenit's kind of watching to see how they
support other people, to see ifit's something that's genuine or something where they're

(19:33):
maybe not so don't have as goodintentions. But I've met plenty of people
who have really great intentions who havehelped me here, who have been examples,
and I'm sure some of them willbe coming in for feature interviews as
well. You know, they're justthe more positive people, the people who
have chosen to make something of themselves. Yes, what do you miss the

(19:55):
most from the outside? I thinkwhat I miss most is the access to
the people that I love and alsoto the activities that I love as well.
It's difficult sometimes to catch someone atthe right time for a phone call,
or it's difficult to set up enoughvisits to make someone feel like,

(20:15):
you know, they're still in touchwith few and it's some of the systems
aren't necessarily optimal in terms of communications. So sometimes maybe someone can't log onto
the messaging system because there's some sortof technical issue, or they can't answer
the phone because for some reason thephone system isn't accepting their input. So
there's just kind of like difficulties incommunicating difficulties and how people can reach out

(20:41):
to you and how I can reachout to them, and what times and
in what ways. So I thinkthat's kind of the most difficult thing.
You know, you can't just pickup the phone and text somebody. You
know, if you do want tosend an electronic message, you have to
either type it into a handheld tabletor you have to go to kind of
a wall mounted kiosk and type itin that way, and then it has
to be approved. It's only acertain number of characters, and when it

(21:04):
gets delivered as kind of a mystery, so you know, and then through
all that, the other person hasa lot into a system that's a little
bit complicated to use, and youknow, so that that's kind of the
it contacts exactly. Yeah, it'sit's a long way to get to yes,
yeah, that process. And youmentioned again your father and you have

(21:26):
a brother and visitation. I knowwe touched on that, so again the
visitation, when you could you sharewith the listeners, like when you do
see your father and your brother,what goes through your mind or having to
say goodbye. Having to say goodbyeis always the hardest part, but I'm
always just so grateful that they've chosento travel. Neither of them lives particularly

(21:49):
close. Both of them are youknow, at least a few hours away.
My brother has been you know,moving around a lot, so sometimes
it's been overseas that he's that he'slived, so sometimes it's difficult for them
to come here. This is alsoa more remote location, so it's kind
of like it's always kind of aneffort to have anyone come and visit.
But I'm overcome with gratitude that theydo, and sometimes i feel like I

(22:14):
don't deserve it, but I'm verygrateful that I have it anyways. But
it's also sad seeing them going andknowing that they're going to go back to
their lives and I'll still be here, and it's hard for both of us
on both ends of that. Butwith the new video visits that were implemented
during COVID, it's been nice tosee like where they live and kind of
see the things again that we're justkind of pictures in my head. So

(22:37):
on one hand, it's kind ofhard to see that because you want to
be there, so you remember beingthere and you'd like to be right and
back in the mix of it.But it's also nice to see that they're
happy. Yes, yeah, Andeven though you're early into your sentence,
do you ever think about what isit going to be like aging in here?

(23:00):
You know? Yeah, sure,aging is difficult. I do not
have children. And when I leavemy minimum, if I left on my
minimum, I would be forty one, about to turn forty two. Of
course it's still possible to have childrenat that age, but it's also very
different experience, and then perhaps Iwould appreciate and I was never dead set

(23:22):
on having kids, but it's almostlike, you know, will I ever
have them? And you know,how will I handle that? And you
know, if I were to getout, I don't almost immediately have to
start, you know, making babies, and that's kind of a lot a
big task, you know, onhand after I Dustin's you know, twenty
years of being incarcerated. So there'snot a huge likelihood that I that I
will have children. I'm hoping eventuallymaybe have nieces and nephews or friends who

(23:47):
include me as extended family. Soin terms of chiep the next generation.
Yeah, And I mentioned that becausemany women that I speak to off the
course of the year is when theyhave been in common righted so young,
and that it's one of the impactand on them of not having or not
being able to if and when theyare released it's a loss. They deem

(24:11):
it as a loss or they grieve. Do you agree with that or what
are your thoughts there. I've agrieveda lot since I came here. I
mean, luckily, it really wasn'tone of my, I guess prime goals
to have children, because I thinkthat that would be a very hard loss
if that's something I was very muchattached to. But I almost think that

(24:33):
any time that I have outside ofhere is going to be a blessing.
It's going to be something, youknow, wonderful. And I've almost kind
of become more accepting of whatever fatethere was in me at this point.
It's kind of like, Okay,so I'm alive, and this life is
not what I would expect it tohave been at all. So it's almost

(24:56):
like I'm willing to accept anything thathappens because you know, I know that
I found a way in here tomake sure that I'm okay, and anywhere
I go, I feel that Iwill be okay, So depending no matter
what happens, I think that,you know, it's it's important just to

(25:17):
find the good parts of it.Could you share with the listener something that
we haven't spoken about, but you'dlove them to know about you? Hmm,
I'm sure there's lots a lot.It's like way do I begin,
no doubt. I think one ofthe major things that I discovered about myself

(25:40):
in here is one of the firstthings that came back to me when I
kind of started coming back into myselfwas writing. There are a lot of
times in my life where I've wishedthat I wasn't here anymore, that I
that I hadn't ever been here,and how maybe that would be easier on
people. But I've come to exceptthat I am here, and one of
the things that I feel is mypoint and purpose in life is writing.

(26:03):
There's there's nothing that has made mefeel as as alive, as useful,
as present as writing has. So, you know, I thought for most
of my life i'd be a scientist, you know, or an engineer,
you know, some combination of thetwo. And I realized that I'm a
writer, so there's a bit ofa shock, you know, why can't
have been something else, you know, But it is what it is.

(26:26):
And since I've been here, I'vewritten many short stories, many I says
in two books actually, which areboth part of a different series, and
trying to get those published eventually.But it's that's also a difficult process in
here, trying to trying to figureout how to navigate that. But it's
something that will always be a partof me. There's so many books that

(26:47):
I just love to write, andthey're all just kind of in there,
just waiting, waiting. On thatnote, do you journal like you've mentioned
about trauma, you've mentioned about mentalillness. Do you find or have you
been journaling information just to help youwalk through that process? I don't journal

(27:07):
too much. I started journaling morewhen I first got here, then after
that, I think finding supportive peoplehas actually been kind of a way to
express myself that without a journal,because some of themes journals aren't the safest
thing to keep in here, justbecause it says you have a cellmate who's
not so scrupulous, you know,they can go through your things and find
out that is what so right,well, before we finish up. If

(27:33):
you were to leave tomorrow, whatwould that look like for me? I
think it would look like my family. It would look like just happiness and
just kind of wonderful continuation of thesecond chance that I've already gotten. I

(27:55):
don't think your second chance starts whenyou leave. I think it starts the
day that you realize your life andfunctioning and able to do things. So
it would just be a realization ofeverything that I've been working for since I've
been here. It would be writing, it would be being more present of
my family. It would be moreforgiving and more compassionate. Yes, yes,

(28:15):
wow, Well I'm just going tosay our journey is just beginning,
okay, because this is the wellwe've met a couple of times previous to
this podcast. Correct, Yes,but as I said, our journey is
just beginning, and I want tothank you so much. Thank you again.
It's been wonderful talking to you,and this is just the beginning,

(28:37):
isn't it. And keep up thegreat work with you writing. Thank you
Okay, thank you, Thank youfor very much for having me, and
thank you for all your listeners.Really appreciate the opportunity to bring more humanity
back into prisons. Thank you,