February 22, 2024 • 23 mins
Erica was 29 when she was arrested, and she is now 43 years old. She has been incarcerated for approximately 14 years. She is serving a life sentence in SCI. Muncy.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
We'd like to acknowledge for our listenersjust upfront that what you will hear from
individual incarcerated women throughout the episode youmay find to be emotionally charged and even
disturbing. So we just want toacknowledge that and make you aware of that.
Furthermore, something that listeners probably don'trealize is that all of our individual
(00:25):
conversations with each woman was recorded insidea maximum security prison, the State Correctional
Institution SCI Munsey in Pennsylvania here inthe United States. So the noise,
if there's any chatter, anything inthe background, for our listeners, just
to understand that we actually recorded insidea prison where the day goes on.
(00:50):
The women, the officers, thestaff, they all have their jobs.
Just because we're there, it doesn'tstop. Well, everything becomes quiet.
So if you do, as listenershere any background noise, please understand that
is part of being inside a prison. Thank you for listening to our podcast,
(01:19):
Self Identities Conversations with Convicted Women.My name is doctor Catherine Whiteley.
I'm a feminist criminologist and I'm visitingtoday the State Correctional Institution SCI Muncy.
It's a state prison in Pennsylvania forwomen and joining me today is Erica.
(01:41):
Great to see you, Erica,Hello, welcome, thanks for having me.
This is great Erica, because we'veknown each other for almost what a
decade? Yes, when we wasworking on the book. Absolutely, we've
talked, we've conversed, we've writtenletters to each other. Yeah, it's
been phenomenal. But today you're goingto share a little bit about who you
(02:01):
are for our listeners. Okay,it's going to come from you, not
me, right, all right?Okay, So Erica, could you share
with the listeners how old were youwhen you incarcerated and how long have you
been incarcerated and how old are youtoday? Twenty nine when I got arrested.
(02:22):
Okay, so I went down likefourteen years. I'm forty three now.
So I'm going to take you backto when you were first arrested all
those years ago. Could you justshare what was going through your mind?
What was happening to you at thattime when you were first sentenced if you
don't mind angry? How so?Because I was in jail and I'm like,
(02:50):
and I just knowing what was goingto happen with me? Was there
fear? Yeah? Yeah? Yeah, yeah? Yeah? What did that
look? Like, well, Iwas just like I was really scared in
blaming everybody else and stuff. Butthen when I was in the county and
my pastor came to see me,he said, I need to let go
(03:13):
and accept responsibility and things will geteasier. Just to accept the fact that
you did this. God forgive youjust got to forgive yourself. And when
I did that, it stuff gota little easier. But I still wasn't
ready to change yet, but Iwanted change at the flip of a switch.
Really, yeah, So could youshare with the listeners where were you
(03:37):
born area, Pennsylvania and a littlebit about your childhood growing up? What
was it like? It was good. I had a mom who worked at
the post office, so I didn'tgrow up a product of my environment.
But I still was in the streets, like smoking weed and selling drugs and
(04:00):
things of that nature. And thiswas your my choice, your choice,
and this was in your teenage,yeah, my teenagers. Can you share
a little bit about that, becausesome people don't understand what it was like,
as you say, in the streetsor living in the streets or no
living like necessarily a bit on thestreets, not being in the streets and
selling drugs and not doing what I'msupposed to be doing, going to school
(04:23):
and raising my sons. I hada son at fourteen, did you?
Yeah? Yeah? Are you ableto speak about that? Going through that
at a young age, having achild. I didn't really want a child,
but my mom don't support abortion,so she said, you're going to
have this child, but then I'llhave her raising my child. When I
turned eighteen, out left her housebecause she was like, if you don't
(04:45):
go to school, you got tomove out. So when I turned eighteen,
I moved out. Then I startedselling drugs to take care of myself.
Really yes, yeah, And howdo you describe those times? Tough?
No, they were easy because sellingdrugs is easy money, quick,
easy money. I made more moneythan my mom deliver deliver milk because she
(05:08):
succeeded in working at the post office. Soul. Yeah, I made more
money than her taking care of myselfand still my son. But my son
was staying with her. Right Andhow old again? Will you? When
you entered the prison here thirty?I had my thirtieth birthday was Sabruary twentieth,
and I came here June of twentyten. So in your twenties,
(05:31):
What was life like then? SoI was eighteen when I started selling crack
cocaine to take care of myself.And I would you know, buy like
a ounce and cut it in twentydollars rocks and stand where you know,
you can sell the drugs on thecorner and people come up and buy a
(05:56):
rock twenty dollars. Brought twenty dollarsfor each crack raw and it progressed from
there. Erica, how could youjust explain how did you access like you
said when you around about eighteen,how did you access the drugs to sell?
I mean you go on buy itfrom someone else, it will be
a connect. But they were likenearby where you would be at And was
(06:19):
it nighttime, daytime when you wereday day and night all day? Really?
Yeah? Yeah yeah, make money, make money. Did you take
the drugs other than no? No, no, no no, no no
no. This is interesting because andErica, I want to share because some
people don't differentiate that you may selldrugs, but it doesn't mean that you
actually take drugs. You know,you don't take the drugs. Tell us
(06:42):
why not? Because in crack isaddictive. We don't know the way I
wanted to be not cracke. Butmaking the money is an addiction in itself
because then as you start selling andyou start making money and more money and
more money, but then you ruina bunch of lives. That's what I
thought about when I when I hadthe day of responsibility here and I thought,
(07:03):
like all the drugs I saw it. I made a lot of money,
but like, you run a bunchof lives? How many people lights
it is getting cut off? Howmany kids ain't eating because their mom then
sold their food stamps or sold theirshoes or show their like that takes a
toll when you realize what you're doingafter like I did it for the eighteen
(07:24):
so I went to jail. Sothat was eleven years and I probably runed
a lot of lives. Wow,eleven years, that's how long that you
were selling? Yes, right,that's so I don't now that I'm older,
I don't condone that because that's justlike man. But then again,
(07:44):
that's how I took care of myself, not thinking the lives that I was
running and that. Yeah, sothat's one thing I don't everyone do again
in life, even though it's quickmoney, Like it's not worth it because
you do ruin a lot of wives. People home was so hungry and it's
(08:05):
just bad. Was it ever questionby your mother the way you Yeah,
she knew. Like I said,my mom didn't condone what I do,
but she didn't stop it. That'sthat's how our relationship was. She didn't
condone nothing, but she didn't stopit. She didn't force nothing on me.
If I didn't want to do something, she would just say okay,
and that was the end of it. And I kind of wish she would
(08:28):
have then maybe I would have beena different person, but then we never
know. That's right, But yeah, that's it. And I got the
idea of like selling dress because mystepfather and I was growing up, he
sold drugs and when the way wewere living was good in the eighties and
(08:50):
then in the early nineties, hesold drugs. My mom worked, and
it was like me and my sisterwanted for nothing really because he made that's
I grew up in that life too. I'm selling sea and drugs bean,
so so that's what turned me ontoo. With the money, I can
get all this money and not dotoo much or nothing, just stay in
(09:11):
here and sell these rocks. Anywords of advice, don't sell drugs.
It's it's addict that you can getaddicted to the money and keep selling or
some people. I seen a lotof people that I sold drugs and started
end up using drugs. This realthis guy I was real cool with and
we hustled, and then like yearssome years later, down online, I
(09:33):
see him coming to buy some crackout of one of these crack houses I
was selling out of, and I'mlike, oh, what happened to you?
Man? I started smoking Lacey's,which is weed with crack mixed in
with He started smoking laces with somelady and then ended up getting hooked and
start smoking crack and self. AndI'm like, that's like, wow,
(09:56):
never think of that, But it'sI've seen it happen to a lot of
people, either addict to the moneyor get addicted to the drugs. Sitting
here today and thinking about that,what choices, What choices would you have
made maybe differently, or would youhave done the same thing. I would
have went to school. Like mymom didn't condone what I did, but
(10:18):
at the same time she didn't stopme. But then again, it's not
her fault because it was my choice. And that's what I quickly eat something
out a flip of a switch easy. That was easy for me. And
then what about when when you thinkabout it coming into the prison system here,
what has your experience been like?So then I had time to sit
(10:43):
still and just think and work onme. And what does that look like?
Work on like a change? Takeingtime to think before I act,
because everything has Every action has areaction. And I don't want to just
be And aren't you doing nothing orjust looked at as a bad person when
(11:03):
you see me, clut your pearlsbecause here comes a problem. Like I
had to change that about me.So the first few years when you entered
I was bad. When you saybad, I had a bad attitude.
I feel like I had a lifesentence. What more can they do to
me? I had that type ofattitude. But then I surrounded myself with
friends. Did be like just becauseyou serve in that time, you don't
(11:26):
have to have that type of attitude. You know, get a detail,
start going to school and just bea responsible person. And that's when the
changer for me came. And we'rekind to speak more about that a little
bit later on. But you saidget a job detail. What did you
do then? What do you donow? When it comes to from my
first detail, I was pushing laundrycarts. Really, yes, that was
(11:50):
my first detail, pushing laundry carts, and now I work at the second
infirmary for them from housing pizzo,Okay, can you explain what that is
and what you're wrong at the school? Done and really clean up and hang
out with the ladies and stuff.Do you enjoy that? Yes? I
(12:13):
do? Yes? What do youget from that when you say you enjoy
hanging out with the ladies conversation andknow someone's there just to help them,
Because I feel if I was inthat situation, I would want someone to
just say how am I doing?Or do you need me to do anything
for you? Or things of thatnature. And when you look at some
of the women there and work withsome of the women there, do you
(12:33):
ever like you've just mentioned, youknow, you don't want that to be
here? Yeah? If I wasme, I would want someone to look
out be nice for me. Yeah. Do you think about growing old in
the prison system, maybe dying inthe prison system. I said, it's
scary to if I just kill over, who's going to care. Do you
(12:54):
have an outside support network? Ohyeah, my mom. Can you a
bit of my family? My mom, my sister, my son, his
kids, my niece, her kidswill tell us a little bit more like
do they come to visit or howdo you engage? Or we I talk
on the phone every day. Ilike the phone and video visits a lot.
(13:16):
Yeah, what about your son?And you said a little bit about
him. He's working on himself andgotta get hisself together stuff. He's like,
he's a good father. I willsay that that's one thing I can
really say good about him. Andhe's working, but they're not working.
But how does it feel to bea grandmother? It feels good. I
(13:37):
just haven't met him yet. Youknow. One just turned nine, my
other want to be five in August. I see him, want to scream,
but I have yet to see them. And then my mom really can't
drive is like five hours from Eriethat much stuff because she just don't like
(13:58):
being in the car. That sowe radio visit a lot and I see
someone the screen a lot. SoErica, what does a daily routine look
like for you? So I geta get in a shower, have my
graphics, which is coffee, andgona borrow, listen to the news,
read books I like to read.Do you really what type of books better?
(14:22):
Romance? I'm in a romance kick, Are you really? I didn't
yet, but yeah, I haveto expand my horizons. Yeah, yeah,
she's like, yeah, romance itis, isn't it? And get
I use the phone and that's byit. That's my day. So I
got to work at two fifteen.And when you say, as you said,
you go to work, that isworking in the infirmary. And again
(14:46):
you mentioned that you enjoy helping orbeing there with other women. So what's
something specifically about that you that youreally look forward to within your job?
What is something the role something specific? Helping this one lady who hasn't talked
to her son since she's been herebecause she has dementia. But she didn't
(15:07):
been hurt that long, but she'sbeen her long enough. But I helped
her get ahold of him and thatwas like a good moment for her.
Wow. And that's so that mademe feel good. Yes, And I
know that situation because I had afamily member I was close with that had
Alzheimer's and dementia, So like Ireally connected with her because I went through
(15:28):
it with my with my grandma forlike ten years. How did that impact
you my grandma happened dementia was badbecause like I was real close with my
grandma and then her not really knowingwho I am. It was like bad.
And I see that she hasn't andthat's I'm like, she reminds me
(15:50):
of my grandma so much, Likeshe's nice to talk too, easier to
get along with, and she justwants someone to talk to. So like
she's someone like I try to sayhi to every day and just ask her
she need any help with anything?Yeah. Yeah, And I had another
other good friend down that just passedaway, and yeah, it impacts,
(16:15):
Yeah, yeah it does, Yeah, it impacts. And what about Erica,
You've been here for a little while, what about you know friendships?
I have some good friends. Wellone my old friend Dank, she just
passed away to Can you just sharea little bit about the feeling or the
impact for someone like yourself and otherwomen surrounding that surround a woman that passes,
(16:40):
like that knows a woman that passes, and how does that you know,
as a care as a group ofwomen, how does that impact each
one of you when when someone closeinside passes, it's like a good friend,
good family members. It's tough.How do you how do you work
through that? I just that's agood question. But I like go because
(17:03):
I feel like they're in a betterplace now. And then they were both
like roll six so they're not inno more pain. You don't have to
do no more of that. Andthen they're freaks. They're both were doing
time, so they're free, sopain free and literally free. That's how
I really see it, Erica,if you were released tomorrow, if you,
(17:25):
you know, left tomorrow, whatwould it look like? How would
you feel? Maybe it will lookgood because I have with support system my
home, like so I'll be ableto get a job, and I probably
my mom because she has I likeher. But it wouldn't last forever.
But I just could get it.I could get a job because when I
(17:47):
worked maintenance, I had have aMacEnery paper that they said I can take
and go get a job. Yes, and I like to see that house
slipping content track work. So I'mgoing to go to school to what is
it when you go through building tradesto get the paperwork to be a contract.
But I don't want to be acontract. I want to run the
(18:08):
show. Everybody. Everyone's working forme, like I know how to do
it. So I see when Iwork maintenance, I know how, but
they're working for me. You mentionedmasonry a certificate in that. Is that
correct? What what was that like? I mean when I say that's our
work, could you explain what didyou actually have to do? Because you
(18:29):
know people are listening to this andthinking, how does that look like inside
a prison environment? You know what? What? We made forms of poor
concrete and we did a lot ofthat work when it was concrete to be
poor, but then we did alot of other little work too. But
you can be a amazing right,and this is something that you enjoyed and
(18:52):
as you said, you became certified. Yeah, wonderful. And what other
things do you do that you'd liketo share whilst you're here inside with our
listeners to get to know you betternot know as much to do. I
don't go outside much. I justwork. And when you say you don't
go outside much, what does thatmean for people that don't understand to the
(19:14):
art to the young Okay, yeah, so you're pretty sort of devoted,
as you say, to your thehospice, working in the infirmary yeah yeah,
yeah, and then connecting with yourfamily, new relatives. Yeah yeah.
So what do you miss the most? Mama? Can you share a
(19:36):
little bit about how you shine lighton your mum lighting up? Yes,
because she's always been there for mein right, wrong or and different.
She yes, always is out ofmy back. Yes, that's what I
can say. On reflection the choicesyou've made, Erica, would there be
you know when you think back allthose years ago, would you change?
(19:59):
Would there be things you would change? What I would change? I would
change not I would have finished school. Yes, that's right because you mentioned
that earlier on actually then graduate highschool. I would finished school and made
something of myself. And it wasall my choices. I made it that
I've made, can't blame no onewith me, and I own it today
(20:22):
like yeah I did that. Thoseare my choices. And moving forward,
where do you see Erica in thenext few years? What was she?
What will she look like? Justa better friend, about a person,
a better daughter, mother, Granma, I'm just going to ask about,
uh, mothering from behind bars?Being a mother from behind bars? Can
(20:45):
you share with listeners what is whatdoes that entail, the challenges, the
impact on you. That was toughbecause then my son was a teenager,
and then my mom lived in thesuburbs and my son lived in the city.
So then he went from stann withmy mom with my sister, and
then he didn't have no guidance,even though my sister had a daughter,
(21:10):
but he was doing what he wantedto do. How did it knowing that
you could not be there, youknow, years later, to guide or
be the mother. How has thatimpacted you? That's apected me a lot,
(21:33):
because I feel like if I hadbeen able to be there, he
wouldn't just did some of the things. He'd die. Yeah, yeah,
because we you know, when Italk with women that have been carcerated for
many years, it does impact them. Not be enough to touch or hold
or yeah, what do you think? Yeah, because I couldn't call home
(21:56):
as much as I can now becausephone calls then were way more then then
what there are now. I waslike five dollars a call when I first
got here, so I couldn't geton the phone all day if I wanted,
If I could, you can't becauseyou don't have the money. Yes,
then money was like tight then yes, so that it's like and then
you write letters but no one's writingback and you're not hearing it from no
(22:19):
way. So that was like justyeah, real bad and real like real
bad. Like the first five yearswas it really? Yes, because he
was thirteen and the eighteenth like thefirst five years was tough. Were the
things that he would say, ifyou don't mind sharing, if possible,
but you know, he would sayto you, you know, like Mum
(22:41):
when you're coming home, or withthe conversations, like the magnitude of my
sentence, like he was old enoughto understand what a life sentence meant.
So thank you, yeah, thankyou. So the woman sitting in front
of me today, Erica, asI said, a decade or so late,
we're back again talking and discussing oryou discussing your life. How would
(23:04):
you summarize Erica that's sitting right oppositeme today doing this wonderful podcast. Who
is she just then? Easy goingone person? That's it? An easy
going person. Well, I'm goingto say, Erica, it is so
great to see you. Well,I'm discussing great. Absolutely, it's been
(23:29):
wonderful talking to you, Erica,and thank you for being part of our
podcast series and great to reunite.Absolutely, thank you, Thanks Erica,
You're welcome.
We'd like to acknowledge for our listenersjust upfront that what you will hear from
individual incarcerated women throughout the episode youmay find to be emotionally charged and even
disturbing. So we just want toacknowledge that and make you aware of that.
Furthermore, something that listeners probably don'trealize is that all of our individual
(00:25):
conversations with each woman was recorded insidea maximum security prison, the State Correctional
Institution SCI Munsey in Pennsylvania here inthe United States. So the noise,
if there's any chatter, anything inthe background, for our listeners, just
to understand that we actually recorded insidea prison where the day goes on.
(00:50):
The women, the officers, thestaff, they all have their jobs.
Just because we're there, it doesn'tstop. Well, everything becomes quiet.
So if you do, as listenershere any background noise, please understand that
is part of being inside a prison. Thank you for listening to our podcast,
(01:19):
Self Identities Conversations with Convicted Women.My name is doctor Catherine Whiteley.
I'm a feminist criminologist and I'm visitingtoday the State Correctional Institution SCI Muncy.
It's a state prison in Pennsylvania forwomen and joining me today is Erica.
(01:41):
Great to see you, Erica,Hello, welcome, thanks for having me.
This is great Erica, because we'veknown each other for almost what a
decade? Yes, when we wasworking on the book. Absolutely, we've
talked, we've conversed, we've writtenletters to each other. Yeah, it's
been phenomenal. But today you're goingto share a little bit about who you
(02:01):
are for our listeners. Okay,it's going to come from you, not
me, right, all right?Okay, So Erica, could you share
with the listeners how old were youwhen you incarcerated and how long have you
been incarcerated and how old are youtoday? Twenty nine when I got arrested.
(02:22):
Okay, so I went down likefourteen years. I'm forty three now.
So I'm going to take you backto when you were first arrested all
those years ago. Could you justshare what was going through your mind?
What was happening to you at thattime when you were first sentenced if you
don't mind angry? How so?Because I was in jail and I'm like,
(02:50):
and I just knowing what was goingto happen with me? Was there
fear? Yeah? Yeah? Yeah, yeah? Yeah? What did that
look? Like, well, Iwas just like I was really scared in
blaming everybody else and stuff. Butthen when I was in the county and
my pastor came to see me,he said, I need to let go
(03:13):
and accept responsibility and things will geteasier. Just to accept the fact that
you did this. God forgive youjust got to forgive yourself. And when
I did that, it stuff gota little easier. But I still wasn't
ready to change yet, but Iwanted change at the flip of a switch.
Really, yeah, So could youshare with the listeners where were you
(03:37):
born area, Pennsylvania and a littlebit about your childhood growing up? What
was it like? It was good. I had a mom who worked at
the post office, so I didn'tgrow up a product of my environment.
But I still was in the streets, like smoking weed and selling drugs and
(04:00):
things of that nature. And thiswas your my choice, your choice,
and this was in your teenage,yeah, my teenagers. Can you share
a little bit about that, becausesome people don't understand what it was like,
as you say, in the streetsor living in the streets or no
living like necessarily a bit on thestreets, not being in the streets and
selling drugs and not doing what I'msupposed to be doing, going to school
(04:23):
and raising my sons. I hada son at fourteen, did you?
Yeah? Yeah? Are you ableto speak about that? Going through that
at a young age, having achild. I didn't really want a child,
but my mom don't support abortion,so she said, you're going to
have this child, but then I'llhave her raising my child. When I
turned eighteen, out left her housebecause she was like, if you don't
(04:45):
go to school, you got tomove out. So when I turned eighteen,
I moved out. Then I startedselling drugs to take care of myself.
Really yes, yeah, And howdo you describe those times? Tough?
No, they were easy because sellingdrugs is easy money, quick,
easy money. I made more moneythan my mom deliver deliver milk because she
(05:08):
succeeded in working at the post office. Soul. Yeah, I made more
money than her taking care of myselfand still my son. But my son
was staying with her. Right Andhow old again? Will you? When
you entered the prison here thirty?I had my thirtieth birthday was Sabruary twentieth,
and I came here June of twentyten. So in your twenties,
(05:31):
What was life like then? SoI was eighteen when I started selling crack
cocaine to take care of myself.And I would you know, buy like
a ounce and cut it in twentydollars rocks and stand where you know,
you can sell the drugs on thecorner and people come up and buy a
(05:56):
rock twenty dollars. Brought twenty dollarsfor each crack raw and it progressed from
there. Erica, how could youjust explain how did you access like you
said when you around about eighteen,how did you access the drugs to sell?
I mean you go on buy itfrom someone else, it will be
a connect. But they were likenearby where you would be at And was
(06:19):
it nighttime, daytime when you wereday day and night all day? Really?
Yeah? Yeah yeah, make money, make money. Did you take
the drugs other than no? No, no, no no, no no
no. This is interesting because andErica, I want to share because some
people don't differentiate that you may selldrugs, but it doesn't mean that you
actually take drugs. You know,you don't take the drugs. Tell us
(06:42):
why not? Because in crack isaddictive. We don't know the way I
wanted to be not cracke. Butmaking the money is an addiction in itself
because then as you start selling andyou start making money and more money and
more money, but then you ruina bunch of lives. That's what I
thought about when I when I hadthe day of responsibility here and I thought,
(07:03):
like all the drugs I saw it. I made a lot of money,
but like, you run a bunchof lives? How many people lights
it is getting cut off? Howmany kids ain't eating because their mom then
sold their food stamps or sold theirshoes or show their like that takes a
toll when you realize what you're doingafter like I did it for the eighteen
(07:24):
so I went to jail. Sothat was eleven years and I probably runed
a lot of lives. Wow,eleven years, that's how long that you
were selling? Yes, right,that's so I don't now that I'm older,
I don't condone that because that's justlike man. But then again,
(07:44):
that's how I took care of myself, not thinking the lives that I was
running and that. Yeah, sothat's one thing I don't everyone do again
in life, even though it's quickmoney, Like it's not worth it because
you do ruin a lot of wives. People home was so hungry and it's
(08:05):
just bad. Was it ever questionby your mother the way you Yeah,
she knew. Like I said,my mom didn't condone what I do,
but she didn't stop it. That'sthat's how our relationship was. She didn't
condone nothing, but she didn't stopit. She didn't force nothing on me.
If I didn't want to do something, she would just say okay,
and that was the end of it. And I kind of wish she would
(08:28):
have then maybe I would have beena different person, but then we never
know. That's right, But yeah, that's it. And I got the
idea of like selling dress because mystepfather and I was growing up, he
sold drugs and when the way wewere living was good in the eighties and
(08:50):
then in the early nineties, hesold drugs. My mom worked, and
it was like me and my sisterwanted for nothing really because he made that's
I grew up in that life too. I'm selling sea and drugs bean,
so so that's what turned me ontoo. With the money, I can
get all this money and not dotoo much or nothing, just stay in
(09:11):
here and sell these rocks. Anywords of advice, don't sell drugs.
It's it's addict that you can getaddicted to the money and keep selling or
some people. I seen a lotof people that I sold drugs and started
end up using drugs. This realthis guy I was real cool with and
we hustled, and then like yearssome years later, down online, I
(09:33):
see him coming to buy some crackout of one of these crack houses I
was selling out of, and I'mlike, oh, what happened to you?
Man? I started smoking Lacey's,which is weed with crack mixed in
with He started smoking laces with somelady and then ended up getting hooked and
start smoking crack and self. AndI'm like, that's like, wow,
(09:56):
never think of that, But it'sI've seen it happen to a lot of
people, either addict to the moneyor get addicted to the drugs. Sitting
here today and thinking about that,what choices, What choices would you have
made maybe differently, or would youhave done the same thing. I would
have went to school. Like mymom didn't condone what I did, but
(10:18):
at the same time she didn't stopme. But then again, it's not
her fault because it was my choice. And that's what I quickly eat something
out a flip of a switch easy. That was easy for me. And
then what about when when you thinkabout it coming into the prison system here,
what has your experience been like?So then I had time to sit
(10:43):
still and just think and work onme. And what does that look like?
Work on like a change? Takeingtime to think before I act,
because everything has Every action has areaction. And I don't want to just
be And aren't you doing nothing orjust looked at as a bad person when
(11:03):
you see me, clut your pearlsbecause here comes a problem. Like I
had to change that about me.So the first few years when you entered
I was bad. When you saybad, I had a bad attitude.
I feel like I had a lifesentence. What more can they do to
me? I had that type ofattitude. But then I surrounded myself with
friends. Did be like just becauseyou serve in that time, you don't
(11:26):
have to have that type of attitude. You know, get a detail,
start going to school and just bea responsible person. And that's when the
changer for me came. And we'rekind to speak more about that a little
bit later on. But you saidget a job detail. What did you
do then? What do you donow? When it comes to from my
first detail, I was pushing laundrycarts. Really, yes, that was
(11:50):
my first detail, pushing laundry carts, and now I work at the second
infirmary for them from housing pizzo,Okay, can you explain what that is
and what you're wrong at the school? Done and really clean up and hang
out with the ladies and stuff.Do you enjoy that? Yes? I
(12:13):
do? Yes? What do youget from that when you say you enjoy
hanging out with the ladies conversation andknow someone's there just to help them,
Because I feel if I was inthat situation, I would want someone to
just say how am I doing?Or do you need me to do anything
for you? Or things of thatnature. And when you look at some
of the women there and work withsome of the women there, do you
(12:33):
ever like you've just mentioned, youknow, you don't want that to be
here? Yeah? If I wasme, I would want someone to look
out be nice for me. Yeah. Do you think about growing old in
the prison system, maybe dying inthe prison system. I said, it's
scary to if I just kill over, who's going to care. Do you
(12:54):
have an outside support network? Ohyeah, my mom. Can you a
bit of my family? My mom, my sister, my son, his
kids, my niece, her kidswill tell us a little bit more like
do they come to visit or howdo you engage? Or we I talk
on the phone every day. Ilike the phone and video visits a lot.
(13:16):
Yeah, what about your son?And you said a little bit about
him. He's working on himself andgotta get hisself together stuff. He's like,
he's a good father. I willsay that that's one thing I can
really say good about him. Andhe's working, but they're not working.
But how does it feel to bea grandmother? It feels good. I
(13:37):
just haven't met him yet. Youknow. One just turned nine, my
other want to be five in August. I see him, want to scream,
but I have yet to see them. And then my mom really can't
drive is like five hours from Eriethat much stuff because she just don't like
(13:58):
being in the car. That sowe radio visit a lot and I see
someone the screen a lot. SoErica, what does a daily routine look
like for you? So I geta get in a shower, have my
graphics, which is coffee, andgona borrow, listen to the news,
read books I like to read.Do you really what type of books better?
(14:22):
Romance? I'm in a romance kick, Are you really? I didn't
yet, but yeah, I haveto expand my horizons. Yeah, yeah,
she's like, yeah, romance itis, isn't it? And get
I use the phone and that's byit. That's my day. So I
got to work at two fifteen.And when you say, as you said,
you go to work, that isworking in the infirmary. And again
(14:46):
you mentioned that you enjoy helping orbeing there with other women. So what's
something specifically about that you that youreally look forward to within your job?
What is something the role something specific? Helping this one lady who hasn't talked
to her son since she's been herebecause she has dementia. But she didn't
(15:07):
been hurt that long, but she'sbeen her long enough. But I helped
her get ahold of him and thatwas like a good moment for her.
Wow. And that's so that mademe feel good. Yes, And I
know that situation because I had afamily member I was close with that had
Alzheimer's and dementia, So like Ireally connected with her because I went through
(15:28):
it with my with my grandma forlike ten years. How did that impact
you my grandma happened dementia was badbecause like I was real close with my
grandma and then her not really knowingwho I am. It was like bad.
And I see that she hasn't andthat's I'm like, she reminds me
(15:50):
of my grandma so much, Likeshe's nice to talk too, easier to
get along with, and she justwants someone to talk to. So like
she's someone like I try to sayhi to every day and just ask her
she need any help with anything?Yeah. Yeah, And I had another
other good friend down that just passedaway, and yeah, it impacts,
(16:15):
Yeah, yeah it does, Yeah, it impacts. And what about Erica,
You've been here for a little while, what about you know friendships?
I have some good friends. Wellone my old friend Dank, she just
passed away to Can you just sharea little bit about the feeling or the
impact for someone like yourself and otherwomen surrounding that surround a woman that passes,
(16:40):
like that knows a woman that passes, and how does that you know,
as a care as a group ofwomen, how does that impact each
one of you when when someone closeinside passes, it's like a good friend,
good family members. It's tough.How do you how do you work
through that? I just that's agood question. But I like go because
(17:03):
I feel like they're in a betterplace now. And then they were both
like roll six so they're not inno more pain. You don't have to
do no more of that. Andthen they're freaks. They're both were doing
time, so they're free, sopain free and literally free. That's how
I really see it, Erica,if you were released tomorrow, if you,
(17:25):
you know, left tomorrow, whatwould it look like? How would
you feel? Maybe it will lookgood because I have with support system my
home, like so I'll be ableto get a job, and I probably
my mom because she has I likeher. But it wouldn't last forever.
But I just could get it.I could get a job because when I
(17:47):
worked maintenance, I had have aMacEnery paper that they said I can take
and go get a job. Yes, and I like to see that house
slipping content track work. So I'mgoing to go to school to what is
it when you go through building tradesto get the paperwork to be a contract.
But I don't want to be acontract. I want to run the
(18:08):
show. Everybody. Everyone's working forme, like I know how to do
it. So I see when Iwork maintenance, I know how, but
they're working for me. You mentionedmasonry a certificate in that. Is that
correct? What what was that like? I mean when I say that's our
work, could you explain what didyou actually have to do? Because you
(18:29):
know people are listening to this andthinking, how does that look like inside
a prison environment? You know what? What? We made forms of poor
concrete and we did a lot ofthat work when it was concrete to be
poor, but then we did alot of other little work too. But
you can be a amazing right,and this is something that you enjoyed and
(18:52):
as you said, you became certified. Yeah, wonderful. And what other
things do you do that you'd liketo share whilst you're here inside with our
listeners to get to know you betternot know as much to do. I
don't go outside much. I justwork. And when you say you don't
go outside much, what does thatmean for people that don't understand to the
(19:14):
art to the young Okay, yeah, so you're pretty sort of devoted,
as you say, to your thehospice, working in the infirmary yeah yeah,
yeah, and then connecting with yourfamily, new relatives. Yeah yeah.
So what do you miss the most? Mama? Can you share a
(19:36):
little bit about how you shine lighton your mum lighting up? Yes,
because she's always been there for mein right, wrong or and different.
She yes, always is out ofmy back. Yes, that's what I
can say. On reflection the choicesyou've made, Erica, would there be
you know when you think back allthose years ago, would you change?
(19:59):
Would there be things you would change? What I would change? I would
change not I would have finished school. Yes, that's right because you mentioned
that earlier on actually then graduate highschool. I would finished school and made
something of myself. And it wasall my choices. I made it that
I've made, can't blame no onewith me, and I own it today
(20:22):
like yeah I did that. Thoseare my choices. And moving forward,
where do you see Erica in thenext few years? What was she?
What will she look like? Justa better friend, about a person,
a better daughter, mother, Granma, I'm just going to ask about,
uh, mothering from behind bars?Being a mother from behind bars? Can
(20:45):
you share with listeners what is whatdoes that entail, the challenges, the
impact on you. That was toughbecause then my son was a teenager,
and then my mom lived in thesuburbs and my son lived in the city.
So then he went from stann withmy mom with my sister, and
then he didn't have no guidance,even though my sister had a daughter,
(21:10):
but he was doing what he wantedto do. How did it knowing that
you could not be there, youknow, years later, to guide or
be the mother. How has thatimpacted you? That's apected me a lot,
(21:33):
because I feel like if I hadbeen able to be there, he
wouldn't just did some of the things. He'd die. Yeah, yeah,
because we you know, when Italk with women that have been carcerated for
many years, it does impact them. Not be enough to touch or hold
or yeah, what do you think? Yeah, because I couldn't call home
(21:56):
as much as I can now becausephone calls then were way more then then
what there are now. I waslike five dollars a call when I first
got here, so I couldn't geton the phone all day if I wanted,
If I could, you can't becauseyou don't have the money. Yes,
then money was like tight then yes, so that it's like and then
you write letters but no one's writingback and you're not hearing it from no
(22:19):
way. So that was like justyeah, real bad and real like real
bad. Like the first five yearswas it really? Yes, because he
was thirteen and the eighteenth like thefirst five years was tough. Were the
things that he would say, ifyou don't mind sharing, if possible,
but you know, he would sayto you, you know, like Mum
(22:41):
when you're coming home, or withthe conversations, like the magnitude of my
sentence, like he was old enoughto understand what a life sentence meant.
So thank you, yeah, thankyou. So the woman sitting in front
of me today, Erica, asI said, a decade or so late,
we're back again talking and discussing oryou discussing your life. How would
(23:04):
you summarize Erica that's sitting right oppositeme today doing this wonderful podcast. Who
is she just then? Easy goingone person? That's it? An easy
going person. Well, I'm goingto say, Erica, it is so
great to see you. Well,I'm discussing great. Absolutely, it's been
(23:29):
wonderful talking to you, Erica,and thank you for being part of our
podcast series and great to reunite.Absolutely, thank you, Thanks Erica,
You're welcome.
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