Jean

Jean was arrested in 2004 at the age of 45. She is now 64 years old and has been incarcerated for just over 18 years, and is serving a life sentence at SCI. Muncy.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
We'd like to acknowledge for our listenersjust upfront that what you will hear from
individual incarcerated women throughout the episode youmay find to be emotionally charged and even
disturbing. So we just want toacknowledge that and make you aware of that.
Furthermore, something that listeners probably don'trealize is that all of our individual

(00:25):
conversations with each woman was recorded insidea maximum security prison, a state Correctional
institution SCI Munsey in Pennsylvania here inthe United States. So the noise,
if there's any chatter, anything inthe background, for our listeners, just
to understand that we actually recorded insidea prison where the day goes on.

(00:50):
The women, the officers, thestaff, they all have their jobs.
Just because we're there, it doesn'tstop. Well, everything becomes quiet.
So if you do, as listenershere a background noise, please understand that
is part of being inside a prison. Hi. Everyone, thank you for

(01:17):
listening to our podcast series Self IdentitiesConversations with Convicted Women. My name is
doctor Catherine Whiteley. I'm a feministcriminologist and I'm visiting today the State Correctional
Institution SCI Munsey, a state prisonin Pennsylvania for women. So joining me

(01:38):
today is Gene. Welcome Jean.Great to see you again, Thank you,
thank you for invading me. You'remost welcome. Jen. Would you
like to share with our listeners howold were you when you came to sci
Muncy and how long have you beenand what's your age if you wouldn't mind.
I was drested in two thousand andfour. I was forty five years

(02:00):
old. I came up here inthe end of two thousand and five.
I've been here for law over eighteenyears, and I'm now sixty four years
of age sixty four. Thanks forsharing that, because we go back a
long way, don't we. Yes, we've known each other for several years.

(02:21):
And also, Gene for the listeners. You're also in in my book
if you have your own chapter aboutyour life about many issues and some of
those we're going to we're going todiscuss today and touch on that. So
I'm going to get started. AndI think everyone's always curious about who was
Jean growing up? What was shelike or so could you share what do

(02:44):
you think on reflection, who wasthat a young young woman or young girl
growing up? Well, if yousaw me now compared to what I was
then. I was the biggest timeboy that was out there, short on
from head to toe, climbing trees, play games outside because back then we
could play games outside, you know, and with my other three siblings,

(03:06):
it was an all day excursion.Really ever went in except for meals and
get a shower, But it wasWe had a very close knit family and
we were very We did everything together, so it was a very happy childhood
growing up. And where did yougrow up? What area Bucks County?

(03:30):
My family's family is from up here? And where is up here? Because
just for people around the United Statesand maybe even overseas, where's up here?
My dad's family's from Curransville and mymom's family is from Weedsville Lewistown,
and they owned the whole mountain herein Pennsylvania. Yes, wow, yeah,

(03:51):
my grandmom slowly sold portions of itoff because my grandfather died to make
against meet right. And they hada farm and my aunt had a farm,
and the summertimes we would go tomy aunt's farm and my sister had
to write a pig. I don'tknow why write a pig? A pig?
Okay, yeah, so she hadto write a pig. But It

(04:13):
was a lot like we went horsebackriding, we fed the chickens, it
was just anything outdoors outdoors. Wewere cool, yes, and we always
spent the summer up here with them. It was enjoyable. I'm just going
to touch on that when you saidoutdoors, because you love the outdoors now
here today you're in a maximum securityprison. How do you could you share

(04:35):
with everyone a little bit? Likefor someone that's used to be outdoors and
having fun growing up, what isincarceration for you? It's a scary adventure
coming in here because I always hearstories and when I first got here,

(04:56):
I did not leave myself for threeyears. Really scary. And what were
you scared before you go on?What were you scared when you say that,
I'm somebody who never got in trouble, never got a driving ticket,
was very family oriented and took careof my family. We did things together.
So coming to this atmosphere was overwhelming. I got depressed, I got

(05:16):
scared. I didn't go to meals. I just didn't know how to handle
it from my past and how thingswere whilst we're on this. When you
first came in, what did youexpect it to be like? Or maybe
not. Yeah, well, Ikind of like from when I heard like
people were beating everybody up and peoplewere getting raped, and people were territorial

(05:40):
and you had to follow by theimage rules not so much sath. So
it was something I didn't know howto handle. And particularly you say,
and you're how old again, sixtyfour? You just will keep chain I
do, sorry, so sixty four, okay, I had to say it.
I'm sorry. You have a greatsense of human human gene as we

(06:03):
as we've you know, over theyears we've got to know each other and
so forth we write as well.We write to each other absolutely, And
I reflected back on some of theletters, and and I know health was
one of the issues that you wereconcerned about too. Could you share over
the years you've been here, whatwhat with your health being incarcerated, how

(06:24):
has that impacted your health or couldyou just shine a little bit of light
on that please? And I haveCOPD now, I have asthma, had
that all the time. I haveback surgeries before I got here. I
was able to keep that pretty strongby keep them busy. So the medicals
like you don't use it, youdon't use it, keep it strong.
The muscles. I had allergies foreverout there, so it's it's a process

(06:50):
of having them to realize what you'relike. A lot of people take things
so they find out if you're reallyare sick or you really do have issues,
especially with my celiac that took sometime to diagnose. In here Celiac,
I'm allergic to a lot of stuff, right, wow, Okay,

(07:14):
so we're going to go back tothe childhood. You mentioned that you love
the outdoors a bit of a tomboy. Hey, I hear you a bit
of a boy. So through yourteenage years, what was that like?
Did you you know or your educationor your friends? What did you do
and where did you live? Again? Did you stay in the same area
in Pennsylvania? Always say in Sampark'simily like within ten minutes apart. Right.

(07:38):
My mom and my real dad isseparated when I was young, like
seven years old, so my momhad to get a job. So I
kind of I was the most mature, I guess, so I'm the one
I had to take her of thehouse and go shopping and make sure everybody
did your homework and cleaning the houseand cook and that was kind of my

(07:59):
chore, so I really didn't havea lot of things like activities and school
events and concerts, and my familywas more important to make sure that they
would help. And then my nowdad came into the picture. Who has
been my rock really really what Imean about that? Oh my gosh.
He through good and bad. Hewas always there no matter. Like my

(08:26):
very first husband, he was veryabusive, so my dad was the protector.
He would like always try and getme away from the situation so I
wouldn't get hurt. And even thoughhe's not my real dad, just because
you're not blood doesn't make you nota dad because he was there. He's
been through this whole journey with me. And even though they were incarcerated,

(08:48):
to our families, it's not justus. They're going through it too,
not as hard as us, butI mean they're concerned about us. They
want to make sure that we're comfortable, we're getting things that we need.
So he's been everything to me.So yeah, And when you say things

(09:09):
like making things comfortable for you andhere, what what providing? Like?
What? As I said, whatwould it be so we had sneakers or
food like with me and my siliac, I can't eat a lot of stuff.
So I my dad make sure thatthe thing is the storm commersod actually
eat. I got the money forbecause everything's expensive in here, is that

(09:33):
is out there. It's astounding,and we get it. We'll snape into
a pay so and we have thelittle of us have to live on it.
Yes, with the grace of God, I have my dad, I
have my brother until he passed away, so it'll be you in May.
So my family's dwindling quickly. Howdoes that? You know? I hear

(09:56):
from a lot of women that thelonger they're inside incarcerated, that the less
visitation happens over the years. Haveyou experienced that and or do you see
that around you with women saying thatyou know, there's years ago my family
would visit, or you know they'vegot, you know, their own lives
and they've moved on. You know, well, I mean it's a reality.

(10:16):
I mean it's like I said,they're going through our incarceration. And
my dad is eighty years old,so he couldn't handle the cold anymore,
so he went to Florida. Somy visits ceased at that point. But
he and he's don't other than adoor now with electronics so on a video.

(10:37):
So but he sends pictures and Italked to him once a week,
and so unfortunately, the older weare, the older they get. I
would like to stop it in abubble swing and go back to my life
again. Yeah, but reality ismy chances of anybody being out there if
I ever do get out right isno. Let's let's even touch on that

(10:58):
a little bit about aging inside aprison system serving a life sentence, and
then also the possibility and I talkto other women too about the possibility about
maybe dying inside the prison. Canyou just talk this through a little bit
about maybe thoughts that go through yourmind? Or do you do you go
down that path? Do you thinkabout the dying or death and dying in

(11:20):
a prison system and getting old?Everybody, anybody has spent here and had
letters think about that because inevitably areyou going to die? Yeah? I'm
afraid of what's going to happen,and I'm going to be stuck down in
any epromia all the time because Ieither mentally or physically inable tak care of

(11:41):
myself. So it's a big fearof me and I'm kind of independent.
Are you so it may not takeit so well, right, but it's
an inevitable thing that we probably willall have to face it. Yeah.
Yeah, And when we talk aboutalso so the health and the aging process,

(12:05):
when you when you look back whenyou first came into where you are
today, when you look at youknow yourself in a mirror or the reflector
who you are? Can you justshare us a little bit about you know,
have you changed? You know welook at aging, we change on
the outside, but what about internallyas you've aged? What can you see
you were or are you still todaythat same woman? Well, I'm still

(12:26):
the same inside. I just trynot to look in a mirror because I've
changed so much there, so Itry not to do that. But I
still have the heart that I have. I'm still an independent person. I
still want to fight for any kindof injustice that pertains to me. And

(12:48):
I want to say I'm still theinner core is me and that they haven't
taken that away from me yet.And what's the inner core? Can you
describe that to listeners? That II was a nurse, so I am
very caring and helpful and sometimes overtoo much to a vault that I want

(13:09):
to know that my insights are stillthe same in a way. I think
and care about people and want thingsto happen good for everybody. So my
insides haven't changed. I'm not sayingmuch for the outside. We hear you
there, we hear you. Sowhen we also think about work, have
you worked your years here? Haveyou worked in different jobs here? Oh?

(13:31):
My gosh, yes, what haveyou done? I was a unit
of detail for a while. Thenthe library pushed me, so I worked
there for seven years and they actuallywanted me to stay longer, but I
needed to change. And then Iwas on a unit detail from which I
really loved because I got to helpand do things and it made me feel

(13:54):
like I was productive here. Ialready have a degree, so I didn't
want to go to school again,so I just focused on making sure the
unit was running and clean and thetrash was taken out. So that's what
I'm sorry, Jane, But that'swhat I wanted to ask you. When
you say, for people that don'tknow, what is a unit detailed?

(14:15):
You know? And then I wantto also get you to explain a little
bit. As you said, youdo have a degree, just share a
little bit about that with us too. Okay. I always wanted to be
a nurse since a kid. Iwould always ask for the little doctor's little
you know, bag and sess scopeand all that I never had. I

(14:35):
never believed I was smart enough untilI met my husband, and with his
encouragement and knowing that I would beokay, he helped me do it and
I got it my degree and Iwas astatic, and I went for,
of course, a bunch of storiesand stuff. I had to get my
deploy plebotomy and then my ivy andwound care, and so I had to

(14:58):
do all that and I loved it, really yes, And I love keeping
busy. For some people it's notgood, ah, for me, it
was very good. It kept memy time going. I never heard anybody
while I was here. I justwanted to help. Unit details can run
from being a runner to cleaning yourbathroom, sweeping the forwards, cleaning the

(15:22):
phones and stuff like that. Andmost unit details are for people like me,
old nan, he need you cap. Oh, so you still you
know you still get around? Yeah, you're baiting you know you still look
pretty good. You're getting around,Okay, I think, And so when
we moving forward, now, whenyou think of the years that you've been
here. What do you miss themost? What are you missing at this

(15:46):
stage? Maybe you mean other thanfamily. Other than well, you can
include family, you've mentioned that.Absolutely you can go back and and revisit
that if you wish, But yeah, what do you miss? What I
miss the most and think about allthe time is walking barefoot in the grass
eating an age cream cone. It'sbeen a scule to you guys, but

(16:07):
it's a big deal for us,I mean, and to be able to
get hot water when I want togo to get a shower, when I
want you to go outside and justsit and get fresh air, to go
fishing by the pond. Girl,you like to fish shave really but my
dad's the whole time. Yeah,no, don't be It's great, as

(16:33):
you say, that's the outdoor.Girls. I love the outdoors. Loved
it. But as you said,the missing the fresh air and even though
you know you can go outside alittle bit. Can you explain because a
lot of people don't understand when youtalk about just to have the freedom,
the barefoot on the grass. Becauseagain, if you could just share a
visual of the surroundings like you havepiles no doubt. Protocol is that you

(16:59):
walk on piles. Yeah, youhave to wear shoes, so can you
help us out? So this bitabout the feet and the ground under your
feet, it's just a sign offreedom, right, I mean in the
air is different in here than itis upside. I don't care what you
say. It's different. But tobe able to do what I want to
do and not have to ask canI use the shower? Can I go

(17:22):
out here? Can I just gooutside? And say? Everything in here
is regimented by the staff for oursafety, supposedly, but we don't have
any authority about anything. We can'tmake our own decisions about stuff. We
just we can't, which just wehave to get permission to do everything.

(17:44):
Like if I want to give somebodya soup, I have to get permission
too, because even though they're hungry, I still may not be allowed.
But I'm always respectful and I alwaysask, and what will you like say
for the first five to seven yearswhen you came here? You know you
said the first three years you're reallyconcerned. So how did you evolve as

(18:07):
the woman you are today throughout thatperiod of time? Well, once I
started being a chicken, I whatdo you mean by being a chicken?
Heard of everything? Okay, Istarted to realize that, you know,
I'm not going to get beat upin the bathroom. I'm not going to
get raped, as they say,I'm not going to get bullied. Well,
there were some people to call you, but it's just opening your eyes

(18:33):
and being able to see that thingsare not what everybody told you and perceived
it to be. So and thenI started slowly and I used to make
blankets for the children's hospital, andthat kept me busy. But we're not
allowed to do that anymore. Butand then I realized that I need to
do things to get my time togo. And that's when they gave me

(18:56):
a detail. When I finally gotout to ask. You mentioned also regarding
working in the library, So whatdid that involve? And people are always
curious about what books I get this. I'm always asked, well, what
books do they read? You know? Yeah, could you tell us a
little bit about it. A lotof religious books like the Shack mysteries suspense,

(19:22):
not really much into real stuff.Because this is enough real for me,
right, I only hear about yourbiography for real. I helped with
lead your stuff. I took anextra training to be able to do that
and to help them figure out howto get it back into court, because
a lot of girls here don't knoware not even though they've been in here

(19:44):
a couple of times, they're notlegally sappy about what to do and what
not to do. So I feltlike I was getting something good out of
my time by helping other people bygiving giving back. And you mentioned interestingly
like some of the girls or thewomen have been in here before. So
what are your thoughts on that?Because sometimes I hear it's a bit like

(20:06):
a revolving door, particularly for ayounger generation. What are your thoughts on
that with these young girls? Andgive raspberries? You give them raspberries.
Okay, I'm not too really whatthat means, but anyway, you yeah,
there, you got a lot ofthem trying to hide from me because
I usually friends with most of them, but they know I can't go home.

(20:27):
So for them to keep coming back, yes, they feel like they're
disrespecting me by you got your freedom, Why do you keep coming back?
It's place to get worse every year, so why do you keep coming back?
And I understand they all have addictionsand they don't know how to handle
it, or they had a trigger. But I'm jealous as all quap yeah

(20:51):
to go home, yeah and bewith their family and cook what they want,
eat what they want. And I'mstuck. I don't have that honor
and privilege to get out of hereand improve that I'm not the people you
think I am, and so itgets me a little angry and jealous.
For sure. Who is Jeane sittingopposite me today? Because I know we've

(21:14):
worked together another, you know,for the book, and we've talked a
lot there and that, But whois Jeane right at this moment? Can
you describe her to the listeners?I am a caring person. I want
to fight to make things better forpeople here and there. I want people
to know outside that we deserve achance. Sure there's something which scare me

(21:38):
if I saw them out, butthe majority of them, for real,
don't deserve to be in here.They made one mistake, and I will
do anything and wait anybody that willget the senators and anybody to listen to
us, because so many girls workeda buy lots of proof that they're not
the same person and they made amistake and they just want that chance,

(22:00):
and unfortunately the commonwealth is not sowilling to allow us to go home.
And what do you do then,Geene? How do you work through this?
Like preoccupying yourself on different things likework you've mentioned, But when you
get up of the morning or whenyou wake up, may I ask what
goes through your mind? What's thefirst thing that comes to your mind?
Or bloody hack? I'm still here? Maybe I asked for that, listener,

(22:25):
Baby, I did. I askedthat I did. I didn't see
that coming, but yeah, weshould. I should. I should know
you by now, Gene. Sowhat do you think? What what does
go through your mind? Because peopleare wanting to know, Well, when
you wake up, what's going throughyour mind? What is she going to
do that day? Something so simple? Comman a lot to the listener.
I'm just get up and do thenormal rouchine gets on me. I'll make

(22:48):
phone calls, trying to get familyto find somebody new. Have them look
up the internet. Is there anybodythat's like I just found ou about this
lawyer through sources outside that he helpspeople that we're wonmfully connected. So I
have them doing as much as theycan that will help me to go home
and other people to follow my path. But it's mostly trying to get through

(23:11):
the day. And what is hebusy? Get through the day? And
again I'm being you know what isthat when? Because I hear women it
is it's a catchphrase and it's it'sso appropriate, get through the day.
But can you break that down inthe simplest terms, what is get through
the day? It's just to nothave anybody tear you down, to make

(23:33):
you productive, to not go tothe hole, to not get in trouble
for something stupid like giving a soup, for just trying to figure out.
It's just as everything is repetitive inhere, same routine. Every now and
again you get an appointment, butit's always the same thing. Get up,

(23:53):
get a shower, make your bed, eat lunch, eat dinner,
Try and play cards, Try andkeep yourself occupied so you're not in your
head. Twenty four to seven,that's the worst place to be, really,
Gene, what can you share withour listener regarding the choices you've made
throughout your life? You know fromwhere you know when you're a young girl,

(24:15):
what you know if your in hindsight, you could look back and would
you change some things? You didor who you were to where you are
today. What the choices you've made. I like the choices I made when
I was a kid as far asmy family and growing up and always being
there for them because I made moremoney than them, so I was very

(24:37):
protective and taking care of them.I made good choices. Going to become
a nurse. I've learned how inhere to meet good choices so I don't
get in trouble and to follow therules. I'm doing my time. I'm
not at my time doing me becauseif you sit and just pondering and get
yourself upset about doing the time,it's just going to be longer. Keep

(25:00):
yourself busy. We do puzzles,do play games. I mean, I
just wanted to just get through everyday as productive for me and Gene.
When we think about maybe when you'rein your twenties and thirties, because we've

(25:21):
talked about this in the book,what your life was like then, would
you just like to share with thelistener what was like then in your twenties
and thirties. Oh, I wasn'tmarried to my husband. I don't having
a field day? Were you reallysorry? He was like the best he
was the biggest clown and every timeand again when to get your kids called
downstairs, But that's a whole newthing he did. But I enjoyed,

(25:45):
Like I used to sit on thecouch looking out my bay window waiting for
that red truck to come around thecorner, because it just made me so
happy to see him, and itwas everything to me. So I mainly
until I went to nursing school,I was at a home. I never

(26:06):
went to work, or my husbanddidn't want me to. But it was
just seeing him and doing things forhim and just talking to him and choking
around with him and the rest ofmy family. And holidays was always at
my house. Really yeah, Ididn't give him much choice. What would
you do when you say holidays,you know, Christmas, Easter, hit

(26:29):
the eggs for the kids, wentand did all that, and my dad,
because it wasn't my real dad,didn't want to come. So there
I am in my car. Iwent to his house, get in the
car. So I was more keepingthe family together being in here in the
stress of everything has torn my familyapart. They are no longer as close

(26:49):
as I used to be, whichmakes sense. I'm not there, I'm
not making it an issue. SoI had a really good life out there,
right, and I would not changean out of it because it was
everything to me. Sorry, No, you know, you know, Geane,

(27:12):
this is our conversation and we areyou know, we we've known each
other a long time, so we'vewe've laughed, we've talked, we've shed
tears, you and eye you know. I mean this is normal for us,
right, this is normal, Sonot a problem, No, this
is this is the reality of havingthis conversation. And you know, as

(27:32):
a podcast title is self identities andthat's what women you know, like yourself.
That's what we wanted to converse about. That's what we want to talk
about. Is that for the listenerto understand who are you, gene,
you know, and that's what's important. And I think it's it's very interesting
when we talk about certain areas ofwomen's lives and like we touched on something
that's so that's impacted you, hasn'tit. Yeah? Yeah, yeah,

(27:56):
So Jane, something else. Ifyou could we'll see the next twelve months,
two years, what would you likeit to be? What you know
you're here, what could you makea change or what would you like change
for you, you know, yeah, I want what do you want?
The last year and a half hasbeen really stressful for me, has it?

(28:18):
So I would like that to allgo away, right, And maybe
one of the several twenty letters Ijust recently wrote, maybe one of them
will come up and say hey,yeah, we want to help you and
such as these two doctors did onetime. So my hope is that I
can get somebody to see the thingand get me at least in the court,

(28:42):
okay, and just to go backto where my first eighteen were years
were instead of this last year anda half, right, understand. Yeah,
it's it's as I said, sittinghere with you, you know what
I mean, the story that youshare. It's powerful in the same that
you know, sometimes we think aboutwomen that come through through the criminal justice

(29:03):
system. They're younger, but youknow later in life, and that was
yourself. Again, how old wereyou when you were Yeah? Yeah,
a large percentage of your life waslived, wasn't it by then? Absolutely?
And now you're for seeing the lastpiece of your life, which is
really relevant and important to you atthis very moment. You're seeing it through

(29:25):
you know, the institution. That'sright, that's right, What would you
like to you know, I supposethings again, I'm thinking to the questions
that people often ask, you know, other than what is she like and
I or what is the woman like? Or you know, what did they
do? But you know, we'renot talking about what you did, We're
talking about whose gene? Is thereanything else you'd like for people to know

(29:47):
or understand about the woman that's sittingopposite me. You know, I'm looking
at you and I'm thinking. Icould think of a lot of things,
but some I could say, somepossibly I couldn't say on air. But
what would what would you like toshare? I want people to know that
don't always listen to what is beingsaid to take my work for it.

(30:10):
It's distorted in and outside of prison. Maybe one time to what you hear
and see is the truth. Anddon't judge anybody by one instance that they
did in the past, because itdoesn't make me a bad person because I'm
convictive of a crime in here becauseI'm not. And I like being productive

(30:34):
and helpful, and I just wantthat. I want to be able to
walk to that gate with my papersin my hand, looking over my shoulder,
making sure nobodies won't stop me andgo into my family and freedom again,
which I think a lot of usdeserve a second chance. Hopefully someday

(30:56):
we'll all get it. I'm goingto take you back a little bit.
Many women that come through the incarcerationor the system, the criminal justice system,
and are incarcerated, have experienced someform of trauma. Have you,
And if so, without going intodetail, can you share a little bit

(31:18):
of what you've experienced. Maybe itwas prior to coming here out there now.
I didn't do drugs, I didn'tdrink, maybe at a wedding once
in a while, never got adriving, take aut never did a bad
thing, And all of a suddenI wake up and my whole world chrene
yes, and my families And thennext thing I know, I'm in here

(31:41):
for late And that's the most factthat I've lost several people in here,
I mean out there, I'm beingin here. I can't get any of
the back. I can't get theburse the weddings that passings. Yes,
none of that can be replaced onceI get out. But at the same

(32:02):
time, I can't keep harboring itevery day. You know, why me?
Why me? God had a reasonfor this don't know what it was
yet, bloody hack, but I'msure someday I will understand it, maybe
not til I go see him inand I'm going to say what happened.

(32:22):
Then we'll go from there. ButI'm just trying to make the best situation
and for my freedom by writing asmany letters as I can and do your
journal? Do you write your feelingsdown over the years or have you done
anything like that as a form ofnot just getting you through the day,

(32:45):
but maybe a form of therapy likehelping you. Do you reflect? Do
you reflect upon it? I didn'thave to. I was here because I
mean I kept myself active. Butrecently, like within the last year,
I was suggested by the psychologist todo a journal. Okay, So I
have been doing that and keeping atrack of everything in my day, right

(33:08):
every day and what happened today,who I talk to? Who did this?
So then I do it? Right? So just recapping you you see
a psychologist and how often do yousee a psychologist? Only when I need
it? Right? Okay? Okay? Do you so for people that are
listening to this this, they're thinking, well, not just how often,

(33:29):
but how does that happen? Doyou do you seek or do you reach
out to this, to the personhere, the psychologist here for help,
or how does that happen within aprison system? From your experience, like
most of mine, is anxiety.So if I have a situation I can't
control or I can't make it betterfor me or make it all start,

(33:51):
my anxiety gets worse, for myserop goes worst, my asthma gets worse.
So I'll send in what we callrequest, a piece of paper saying
I need to talk to you.I need somebody to listen to me.
And they're agreed about that here.I mean, I've never had a problem
with any of the psychologists as faras trying to help. Wow. And

(34:14):
do you find when you think backfrom the day that you first arrived to
where you are today that you havelearned to forgive, learn to embrace.
What are the things that you findthat you've able you've been able to do
since you've been here. From amore positive, I suppose approach, I

(34:35):
don't think if you're here under mycircumstances, you ever really get rid of
the anger. You just try andkeep waiting, and you don't let it
empower you too much. You don'tlet that be who you are. You
need to just get through it anddeal with it. And you're going to
have stepped back a couple of timesand go forward, and it's a vicious

(34:58):
cycle. But I really try notto allow that to engulf me. And
you mentioned also jeene family and whileyou're not being you know, you seem
to be the core. You woulddescribe yourself as the core of the family
unit. And how you're being insideor incarcerated here and serving the lengthy sentence

(35:19):
that it's impacted How is it inI suppose, just briefly, how has
it impacted different individuals you being here? Could you explain a little bit more
about that. I have a twinsister and we were close like prick and
frack, so she had a hardtime. She came up once and just
couldn't see it anymore because her leavingme here was destroying her and she cried

(35:45):
for days and she couldn't eat.So mentally, it affects my family that
they don't like leaving me. Mydad was upset every time he left here,
but he did it because he knewI needed that. And then you
got too old and then went toFlorida, so it's hard to come in

(36:06):
here and have a meal together andplay games and then walk out that gate,
and it's traumatic for them. That'swhy I said they're doing the time
with us. People don't realize that. I mean, parents, siblings,
grandkids, they're all doing it.And we wish we could separate it and

(36:29):
say you do, but you can't. They're not going to abandon you and
say we're not going to be there. And they are in their own way.
And you mentioned, graciously your sister, and what about other family members
and your father? But what arethe ways that you find that it's impacted
them? More specifically you mentioned yoursister not coming here anymore, because you

(36:53):
know what else can you share alittle bit about when you hear from them,
this is a it is this wayand why you know if you don't
mind. I mean, we werea knit family. We believe we were
told oralies, believe in the copsdo way, don't do anything wrong.
But they realize our judicial system isnot so good and I don't think they

(37:19):
will ever ever be able to trustanybody in our legal system. And they
just sit back and like, whywhat happened? What could they have done
to prevent it, or it's justthe less they actually see me, the
better it is for them psychologically.How do you feel about that? Though

(37:43):
you understand, I'm sure without puttingwoods into your mouth, you understand that
it's hard to watch them leave.Yes, I mean you're exhausted when you
get out of that visiting room,and we cry too, and they still
get to go and do what theywant and eat what they want, and
go shop and whatever they want.So I'm grateful that they don't have to

(38:07):
put themselves through it because they thinkit's the best for me. And at
some point you have to be moreempathetic for them than you do for yourself.
Before we finish up today, Jeane, is there anything that you would
like the listener to learn more aboutyou? Is there anything? Because you've
done quite a lot in the periodof time you've been here, But is

(38:30):
this something that they don't know aboutyou that you'd like to share? And
we've got to watch what we sayhere, mistering we are on here.
Yes, you've got to behave Ijust I worked hard at being a nurse.
I worked hard taking my family anduntil you know the circumstances behind what

(38:50):
anybody is put here, for Idon't think you should judge them. I
don't think you should listen to everynewspaper, every newscast. I think you
should find out for yourself. Comein here and talk to us, talk
to the over it. You'll besurprised, you know, isn't it interesting?
Because that's what we've been doing formany years, haven't we. We've
been doing many talks. As Isaid, you're gracious to participate in the

(39:16):
book that will be out soon,a chapter about your life and touching on
some of the things that we spokeabout today. But I think that's it
understanding. Come and talk to womenlike yourself, and that's exactly what this
podcast series is all about. Andhopefully that will get people to come because
nobody comes here to go to themen's present. What do you hear about

(39:37):
that before we close? Because Ihear that too. What is the feedback
there? Why is the man alwaysget the help? Why can't people like
graceful that you're here for us?But what about you other people? Governors,
senators, attorney generals. You don'tcome and talk to us, but

(39:58):
you're always a greater friend. Whichone is it? Whatever? But you're
always over there because we're women.We don't deserve it. Yeah, it's
annoying, but with this podcast seriesand other things that we've done and other
people, it gives you the opportunitypersonally to share and to have a voice,
doesn't it, Gene. Yeah,finally again absolutely, but no,

(40:22):
it's always Gene. We're going tofinish there. And you know, our
journey hasn't finished, as you know, right, we still hope that a
knowledge seeing you're right, well,it's always wonderful to see you, Gene,
and we still write to each other. We're still in contact and visit.
So as I said, our journeyis not over yet, but we

(40:44):
you know, I'm most grateful foryou being here today and taking time and
I wish you all the very best. Gene. Thank you so much.
Thank you. I appreciate this.Thank you. You have a nice say