Nacola

Nacola was 32 when convicted and she has served approximately 11 years of her life sentence. She is incarcerated at SCI Muncy.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
We'd like to acknowledge for our listenersjust upfront that what you will hear from
individual incarcerated women throughout the episode youmay find to be emotionally charged and even
disturbing. So we just want toacknowledge that and make you aware of that.
Furthermore, something that listeners probably don'trealize is that all of our individual

(00:25):
conversations with each woman was recorded insidea maximum security prison, the State Correctional
Institution SCI Munsey in Pennsylvania here inthe United States. So the noise,
there's any chatter, anything in thebackground. For our listeners just to understand
that we actually recorded inside a prisonwhere the day goes on. The women,

(00:51):
the officers, the staff, theyall have their jobs. Just because
we're there, it doesn't stop.Well, everything becomes quiet. So if
you do as listeners here background noise, please understand that is part of being
inside a prison. Thank you forlistening to our podcast Self Identities Conversation with

(01:21):
Convicted Women. My name is doctorCatherine Whiteley, a feminist criminologist, and
I'm visiting today the State Correctional InstitutionSCI Muncy. It's a state prison in
Pennsylvania for women and joining me todayis Nicola. Hi Nicola, it is
so great to have you talk inour podcast. Thank you for having most

(01:45):
welcome. Now, Nicola, wehave not well, we've met once,
very briefly, and you decided yes, you're going to join us because we're
wanting to understand a little bit aboutwho you are, and so would you
mind sharing going back to how oldyou were when you first incarcerated? How

(02:06):
long have you been here? Andwhat was your sentence? And if you
don't mind, how old are youtoday? Could you share that with us?
I've been incarcerated for eleven and ahalf years and your sentence is a
life sentence, a life sentence.And how old were you when you were
incarcerated? And how old are youtoday? If you don't mind, I
was thirty two and today I'm fortytwo, and forty one to forty one,

(02:30):
I'll be forty two anticipating it,anticipate, aren't we all? Okay?
Nicola? Would you be able toshare with our listeners a little bit
about yourself, but looking at moregrowing up? Where were you born and
you know, what did you doas a child and what was your family
environment like? Could you share thatwith our listeners? Sure? I grew

(02:52):
up in Los Angeles, California,South Central. I don't know if you've
ever heard of it. It's likeone of the roughest parts of it the
country. Actually, my family situationwas fairly normal, poor neighborhood, but
I never knew I was poor reallysurprisingly, Yeah, because we had everything

(03:15):
we needed. My mom worked twojobs, single parent. They got a
divorce when I was three, whenmy mom and dad divorced. So for
the most part, my growing upwas normal to me. And what about
educational schooling. As far as schooling, I went to Again School in the

(03:38):
poorest neighborhood in Los Angeles, butwe had great teachers, which inspired me
to want to be a teacher.Yeah, our teachers, they really pushed
for us to be at the samelevel as our counterparts. So yeah,

(03:58):
it was okay. So when youtalk a little bit about or share moving
forward about your childhood, what werethe things that you really loved to do
as far as I love reading doyeah, then and now, then and
now I've always loved reading, skating, anything outside outside girl crafts are hair.

(04:25):
I love doing hair. Yeah.And so when we think about,
as I said, just touching onyour childhood, with the things that you
know, the choices that you madegoing back as a young woman, would
you have changed anything or you know, what was your life? I mean
beyond having that good childhood, Iwould have changed some things as far as

(04:49):
uh. In my community, wehad a this kind of stigma where you
you just don't talk about everything thathappens in your house. So old,
there was a lot of things Iwould have changed. I would have shared
things that happened to me with myparents. I would have shared. I

(05:10):
would have called the police. That'ssomething we didn't do either in my community.
That's something we were taught you donot call the police. But certain
situations, I would have called andasked for help. That's something I learned
here. It's okay to ask forhelp. Could you just briefly share a
glimpse of and what you are talkingabout or meaning there? Could you just

(05:35):
share a glimpse of what that thathappened? Well, I was severely molested
as a child by a family member, a very close family member, and
I never shared it. So thatcarried on with me to adulthood. And
it really I didn't notice it untilI did the House of Hope here,

(05:56):
a program It really affected the wayI raised my children, a lot of
things. It affected in my lifejust the way I am today. And
I thank God for that program,and I thank God for this opportunity to
learn the things that I did learnabout myself. I don't want to be
in jail, believe me, butit took that to get me to really

(06:20):
dig deep inside and know who Iam, learn who I am and who
I want to be as a woman, as a mother, as a friend,
just as a human being. Thankyou. I'd love you to share
what the House of Hope is andthen maybe we could talk about you became
you know how old you were whenyou became a mother, and if you

(06:40):
could share that, Okay, soyeah, if you wouldn't mind. So
it's a domestic abuse program actually foror any kind of trauma. Well yeah,
domestical abuse, but not just relationshipbut family trauma. And it was
just awesome. It forced me todeal with a lot of the things that
were shameful to me that I neverwanted to bring up as a child,

(07:04):
and that actually affected me coming here. I never really related the two because
there were two different situations. Butthe abuse that I took from my significant
other. It just was a shadowof what happened to me as a child.

(07:25):
I just thought it was I knewit wasn't okay, but I just
went along with it because it's whatwas normal to me. And may ask
how old were you when you hadyour children? Can you share a little
bit about that, yes, andwhere they are today? I was twenty
one when I had my first son, and I was thirty one when I

(07:47):
had my second son. There inCalifornia, they were with my mom.
She passed away sadlyas so now wellthen they went with my sister. But
my oldest son has grown now hehas a wife, so he's with his
wife, and the baby's still withmy sister in California. And being so

(08:09):
far away geographically, how does thatimpact you when it comes to visitational or
how do you you know, howdo you stay in contact? It's very
hard. I know that COVID wasa horrible thing, but it really brought
things good things for me. Thatsounds weird to say, but as far

(08:31):
as like the visit Kiosk, Iwasn't able to see them, but I
can see them often now because ofthat. My baby he comes every summer
to Pennsylvania. So hopefully his grandmotherwill bring him to see me this right
summer. But I without the kios, I would have never been able to

(08:52):
see them anymore. For the listeners, can you explain what is the chaos?
Oh? Yeah, it's the it'szoom. It's a form of zoom
for the DC. And what theydo is they schedule visits and reconnect and
we're able to just sit and lookat each other and talk for forty five

(09:13):
minutes twice a week I believe itis, and once on a weekend.
So it's awesome. It's amazing whatcan be done now. But I want
to share. So when you feelthat you can't reach out and touch your
hold, can you just and again, you know, if you don't feel
like talking about it, but it'dbe we'd like to hear how it impacts

(09:35):
you, you know what I mean. You may have the visit from your
son or when you do, butwhat does a woman like yourself, young
woman go through when you can't havethat intimate relationship, you can't be there
to hug or could you share withanyone? For people that are listening,
how do you cope with that andthe impact on that on you. It's
very hard. It's extremely difficult tohave that fifteen minute call in your trying

(10:00):
to explain to your children things thatare important. But it's a lot to
deal with. I try not tofocus on that. I try to focus
on positive that I'm able to stillsee them on the zoom visits and call
every day, because some people aren'teven able to have contact with their children.

(10:22):
So I'm just grateful for that.But it's very hard because I've never
been separated for them. I wasactually still nursing my baby when I came
to jail, so that was reallyhard. How old was your baby?
He was eight months eight months Andyou mentioned that keeping busy to not think

(10:43):
too much about that education you mentioned, And we're going to talk a little
bit about that because I believe you'vegot a degree or working on a second
degree, et cetera. So couldyou share that with our listeners and share
how that impacts you. As yousaid, to keep you busy and appreciate
the time you have, no doubtwith your children. So when I first

(11:03):
got to Muncie, I was soldthat lifers were not allowed to go to
college. We were not allowed.I guess the grants or whatever they were
offering. And thank God for myaunt, she decided to pay for me
to get my college degree. Reallyyes, so I have my bachelor's in

(11:26):
business and now I'm working on mymasters. Congratulations, thank you so much.
When do you anticipate finishing your mastersnext year? Wow? And so
the business is the area that you'repassionate no doubt about or yes, yes,
yeah? Yeah? So how whenyou think about the education? So

(11:46):
that is something because that is somethingthat's kept probably very much going, preoccupied,
You're invested in that. It isa career future, no doubt too.
Could you just share for the listeners? What else is it that that
you feel has impacted you personally whilstyou're here or enabled you to if it's

(12:07):
to better yourself, what could that? What other things happen to you here
or what is positive for you?God Jesus, Yeah, that's my main
thing that keeps me going. Iam in love with That's that's all.

(12:30):
My faith in God and trusting thatthis isn't the end. This is not
the end. And I've been latelypeople have been getting out on commutation and
things are happening, laws are beingchanged. So I have faith. So
I don't feel like I will behere for the rest of my life.

(12:50):
So you don't feel, as yousaid, here for the rest of your
life. But what does outside looklook like for you? If you were
to leave tomorrow? What would thatlook like for you? When you say
I'm here? But yeah, whatwould that look like? If I were
to leave tomorrow, I'd have tobe in the center because that's how we
get out on connotation for a year. I have it all planned out,
do you? So what else itlook like? Well, while I'm in

(13:15):
the center, I plan on working. I've been looking at certain jobs in
area as much as possible, safesafe, saved, and buy a car
here because it's cheaper here than California, and have that shipt home. I've
already got the price of that.I've really been looking into things. And
then once I get home business thatwill be set aside for a moment.

(13:39):
First thing, First, kids knowmy kids and my grandchildren. That's a
void in my life, like Ireally need to I need physical touch with
them. I need to hug themand kiss them because I see them on
a bit of visit, but it'snot the same. I can't wait to
see my granddaughters. Oh. Absolutely. What do they say to you if

(14:01):
you don't mind sharing? How dothey end a conversation with you? I
know it must tug at your heart, it must, I'm assuming, But
what's the conversations if you don't mindsharing a little bit? What is it
like when you say goodbye, hhello to your children? It's really hard.
Yes. Yeah, my oldest son, he've come to We just kind

(14:22):
of deal with it. But withthe baby, he doesn't really understand that.
Well. I can share one conversationthat we just had. He said,
Mom, it's almost time for youto come home. Oh, And
I said, well, why doyou say that? He said, it's
almost fifteen years. And I hadto explain to him that in Pennsylvania,

(14:43):
life means life, but in California, I guess he had been researching on
the internet. He thought I'd behome in fifteen years. So that was
a hard conversation to explain to himthat. And Toby is the breath it
is and thank you, thank youso much. And NICOLEA, we do

(15:07):
appreciate you sharing that and it's noteasy. Thank you. So I'm going
to just move it forward a littlebit about as I said, your academic
work. Tell me a little bitabout how did you get involved or evolved
to know. Well, firstly,you love to study, love to read.
But how did this all come about? Because people sort of sometimes find

(15:28):
it interesting that you know, youcan be educated in a prison facility and
actually do so well. And whenyou've shared that, you've not just got
one degree, but you're going frommaster's or to shall we say, receive
a master's degree. But many couldn'teven imagine that. But the opportunity was

(15:48):
here, No doubt you sees that. But can you just how did that
come about? Other than you know, as you mentioned your aunt helping you
there, but for you personally,how did that come about? Well?
I was in the culinary class hereand I enjoyed it so much. I
learned a lot. I actually thoughtI knew how to cook until I took
that class and I realized I don'tknow anything. So it just got my

(16:15):
juice is blowing. I just wantedto keep going with some kind of education.
So and I got a list ofschools, and this one was close
to my aunt's house. So thisis the one I chose, and I
just been going every since. Ilove it. I love learning. It's
just it keeps me going to callit. So you've been here for several

(16:38):
years. Now, what work jobshave you held in that period of time?
The most the longest job I've hadwas in the kitchen in the officer's
dining room. I worked there foreight years. And what did that entil?
What did you do? I preparedI served them lunch, and I

(17:00):
just kind of prepared certain meals forthem when they needed it. And yeah,
did you have to learn how Imean the preparation, what actually goes
behind the scenes, Because I haveto say this. We hear about prison
food and preparation, but if I'mlistening to this, I'm thinking, well,
what's a day look like when you'redoing that? You know, this
was your job for eight years?Yes, eight years, So what does

(17:23):
that look like? Day in dayout? You go, you, I've
got no idea except I just wouldturn up for the food and eat it.
Ye, what was your experience there? Well? I love to cook
so and I'm very organized, sothat was perfect for me, A perfect
job for me. So I goin, I work one to eight because
we did extra cleaning. Afterwards,we went in and just prepared the salad

(17:48):
bar and the hot meal line forthe officers, and it was kind of
like working fast food, but notso much because they were really specific as
what they want. You learn whatthey want and then have it set aside
for them when they came in andkeep the line moving. And when you

(18:11):
talk about the job itself, whatabout did you get paid? It is
a paid job that you for eightyears, right and that then I'm assuming
that helps with and forgive me ifI'm wrong, but like commissary or to
buy things beyond, is that correctwhat you earn or Honestly, for those
eight years, I did not lookat the pay that they gave me.

(18:36):
I never paid attention. I rememberI started at I think twenty four sent
at the dishwasher, and then Iwent straight back to staff, which was
still twenty four cents. I neverreally paid attention to it because I had
a lot of family support back thenbefore my mom passed away, and after
that happened, then I started reallypaying attention to the money I was counting

(18:59):
any ever since then because I knewthat things would change. And that was
a great experience because we never sortof hear too much about what happens behind
the scenes. But that was agreat experience for you. It was awesome.
I got to interact with the officersand it was just a good experience.
It was a light environment, itwas away from the unit, so

(19:23):
it was just different. Thank you, Nicole. Some women share that they
since they've even been incarcerated, oneway to help them get through the incarceration
experience, and some even say trauma. Is they journal or they journal about
the daily activities or how they're feeling. Do you do any of that since

(19:45):
you've been here. I do.I journal every day. I actually have
journals filled up. There was aspecific journal I have for my son,
for the baby I made for him, where I just wrote them letters every
day, really just saying how Ifelt and how my day was going,
and just general questions I wanted toknow about him, and I'm planning on

(20:08):
giving him that when I am released. Also for my granddaughter, I just
started one. I did, yes, So that journal was just about my
mom, just things that I rememberand I wanted to share with her.
I have a prayer journal, yes, yes, where that's the most important

(20:33):
journal. I've had that since thecounty, since I first was incarcerated,
and I just write out my prayersand just speak to God and just pour
out my heart to him and tellhim what I need, as if he
doesn't already know, but I justtell him, and sometimes I just tell
him I love him on the pages, just pour out my heart and I

(20:55):
say I love you and thank youfor everything, because even though I'm in
a situation, there's still so manyblessings around me. Just the job that
I have, being able to goto school, being able to see my
family on the zoom. It's justit's a lot of blessings. I'm just
grateful. Thank you, NICOLEA thankyou. And when you think about when

(21:22):
you first came in here, Nicola, as you mentioned it horrific and leaving
your beautiful children, where did youenvisage your life to be so many years
later, like here we are sittingopposite each other talking about you or you
talking about yourself. Did you haveany ideal thoughts of what lay ahead for
you, what it would be likehere here in monthy. I didn't.

(21:48):
I didn't know. I had noidea what it would be like. I
didn't think it would be like this. I thought it would be more like
California presence as far as them beingso rough with gangs, and they're very
segregated, so to see like thegirls saying I love you, and it's

(22:11):
just a different it's a different environmentand I like it as much as I
want to go home. And I'vebeen thinking about transferring to a prison in
California. I don't think it's goingto be this atmosphere, and I actually
I'm okay with this. It's alearning environment. Some of the staff here
are awesome. They really fight forus, like doctor Ryder, She's helped

(22:33):
me so much, and I'm notsure if I will have that same support
in California. I don't know.So that's a scary thing. And found
like you, how old again wereyou when you first heard thirty two?
Thirty two? When you look aroundand other young women coming through similar ages,

(22:53):
do you have a rapport with someof the women of a similar age
or you know what friendships like herefor you? How has that been?
I kind of live my life herelike I did it in South Central,
Like just keep your head down anddo what you're supposed to do. But
sometimes relationships just form without you evenknowing it. So I have a group

(23:18):
of girls that my prayer group,I call them. We get together and
we pray and we have Bible studyand they're just awesome. Yeah. And
as you said, prayer, faithGod, that helps you absolutely. Yeah.
And what about when you talk aboutfamily, friends and visitation? Are

(23:40):
there anyone? Is there anyone elsethat you know has just said that you
have because you're so far away fromwhere home literally is. Is there anyone
else locally or someone that else supportsyou other than from inside the prison.
No, it's just me. Idon't have anyone on the East coast.
My aunt Doris was in New Jersey, but she moved to Los Angeles to

(24:04):
be closer to my mom before shepassed away. But now it's just me.
Yeah. But you seem to havemade the best you can or working
here and immersing yourself in the education. Is this something you'd like to share?
You know about yourself because there's somuch to learn about you, But
it is this something you'd like ourlisteners to know? Who you really are?

(24:27):
You know who you were who youreally are today that we certainly haven't
touched on, because there's so muchmore about you if we don't know the
main thing I'd like them to knowis I'm a human being. I made
a mistake. I am immensely remorseful. If I could go back at things

(24:56):
would totally be different. But I'mhere, and we serve a second chance.
We deserve a second chance. Thankyou. I'm just I'm just going
to go back to something and again, not wanting to end our conversation on

(25:18):
something on trauma, but is thissomething you could share with anyone that's listening
today that had been shall we say, victimized through the form of some form
of abuse, psychological, emotional,sexual Is there some words of you know,
not advice, but just something youcould share to help someone else that
may be listening and that's going throughthat now, or something that you've enjoyed.

(25:41):
Could you share some words of wisdom? The best wisdom I could give
is seek help. It's okay toseek help. Had I really known that,
then I don't think i'd be herenow. It's okay to ask for
help. You don't have to beembarrassed, you don't have to be ashamed.

(26:07):
Just that's for help. And beforewe close today, anything else you'd
like to share? Because I seea really incredibly intelligent young woman sitting in
front of me. Yeah, yeah, God is good. Yes, that's
the main thing. God is good. Yes, yes, I can't do

(26:30):
anything. I couldn't have done anyof this without him. He's sustaining me.
He's helping me with his degree.Is because my old brain was pretty
rusty after all that time being outof school. He's getting me through this.
Trust God, Trust God. OhNicola, it has been wonderful talking

(26:52):
to you and today you know,you were so kind to share and introduce
a little bit about the demisation.But who you've become, you know and
who you are and and so muchstronger educated and faith in God. So
we thank you Nicola for being withus today in our podcast. Thank you,

(27:15):
thank you,