January 28, 2025 • 35 mins
62 years old, witnessed and suffered abuse from the age of ten. Incarcerated at 21 in a county jail, and at 23 at SCI-Muncy. She has served 41 years of her life without parole sentence.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
We'd like to acknowledge for our listeners just upfront that
what you will hear from individual incarcerated women throughout the
episode you may find to be emotionally charged and even disturbing,
So we just want to acknowledge that and make you
aware of that. Furthermore, something that listeners probably don't realize
(00:24):
is that all of our individual conversations with each woman
was recorded inside a maximum security prison, the State Correctional
Institution SCI Munsey in Pennsylvania here in the United States.
So the noise, there's any chatter, anything in the background.
(00:46):
For our listeners just to understand that we actually recorded
inside a prison where the day goes on. The women,
the officers, the staff, they all have their jobs. Just
because we're there, it doesn't stop or everything becomes So
if you do, as listeners, hear any background noise, please
understand that is part of being inside a prison. Hello everyone,
(01:20):
and thank you for tuning in to our podcast, Self
Identities Conversations with Convicted Women. My name is doctor Catherine Whiteley.
I'm a feminist criminologist, and today I'm visiting SCI Muncie,
a state correctional facility for women in Pennsylvania in the
(01:42):
United States and joining me today is Evon. Welcome Evon.
Great to see you.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Great to see you too.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Thank you, and thank you for sharing a bit about
your life with us today. So, Yvonne, we have only
met once through a zoom, so we've never sat with
you each other face to face. This is a first
for both of us. So I'm going to learn so
much about you today on our podcast. And maybe we
could start with how old are you today sitting opposite
(02:12):
me here in the facility?
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Sixty two?
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Sixty two? And how old were you, Yvonne when you
first entered sei Munci.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Well, when I was arrested, I was twenty one, but
I came here two years later, so twenty three when
I came to Mondsey.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Twenty three. My goodness, You've got a lot to share
about your experience, haven't you. So when we talk about
life in general, I usually like to take you back
to your childhood. You know, where you grew up, what
was your education like? So would you like to share
with me a little bit about growing up where you
grew up and what was it like for you?
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Well, I grew up in Philadelphia area with my mom.
You know, she was a single parent. You know, I
have two older sisters and one younger brother, and my
mother tried to do the best she could, you know,
what what she had. You know, she didn't really have
a job, you know, so we were on welfare, you know,
so she basically tried to give us what we needed,
(03:09):
more so than what we wanted. You know, I just
grew up, you know, in the loving environment. You know,
my mom did have like different boyfriends, so I had
like different adult figures around me growing up. You know,
even though they weren't married. I witnessed you know, different
types of abuse within the home setting. I remember at
(03:33):
an early age, you know, watching my mom, you know,
be abused, and how it really affected me back then,
even though I was real young, you know, even though
I was at a tender age, I knew it was wrong.
I knew I was watching something that was deadly wrong.
You know, that wasn't the right thing to do, and
it really affected me. You know, I wanted to help
my mom so bad, but I was too young to
(03:53):
do so because I remember really wanting to help her,
but I didn't know how, you know, at that age.
So basically, you know, a little dysfunctional family, you know,
growing up, drugs and alcohol came into play. You know,
as time went by, I started experiencing that myself. Growing up.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
How old were you even when you talk about started
experiencing that the drugs and alcohol? How old were you then?
Speaker 2 (04:18):
I say, about, say about ten years old watching my
mom drink beer, you know, smoke marijuana. Basically I modeled
those behaviors after her. You know, I started sneaking beer
out the refrigerator, you know, drinking it myself, you know,
smoking marijuana myself. But as I got into my preteen years,
(04:40):
I went through a couple traumatic experiences myself as far
as different types of abuse and unhealthy relationships. So in
order to cope and deal with those things I was
going through, I started using drugs.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Now.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
I didn't want to talk about it, and I was
too ashamed and embarrassed. I didn't want to tell anybody,
you know, so I just self medicated. Now. I basically
wanted to cope and deal with it by myself. You know,
I grew up always a quiet child, a type of
child that you know, just laid back in the cut,
you know, coping and deal with everything by myself. I
really didn't want to talk about things. You know, I
(05:16):
didn't want to upset my mom because she was already
going through things herself, you know. So basically all my
life it's like holding everything in, you know, not reaching
out for help, you know. And that pattern stayed with
me all the way till twenty one years of age,
from the time I got locked up.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Right, thank you. Could we go back a little bit too.
You mentioned growing up and the trauma, of course, and
I will touch a little bit on that in a minute.
But education wise, while all this is happening in your
home environment, what was your education? Oh?
Speaker 2 (05:47):
I always loved school, did you I always loved school.
I think sometimes I looked at it like an escape,
you know, a different environment, you know, because, like I said,
my home life was a little functional. So when I
went to school, you know, I have fun playing with
other kids, playing games, you know, run around the playground.
You know, I have fun at school. And I always
(06:09):
knew from a very early age that education is so important,
and that stayed with me throughout time, you know, as
I got older. Now, I always love to learn. You
can always learn something new, you know, something different.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
What is it that you love to learn? Even growing up?
As you said, education wise, what was like your favorite
course topic to study or to learn about.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
I always love math, really and I love math because
I looked at it like a challenge. I know I
could solve this problem. It's a solution to this problem.
I'm going to find it. That's how I looked at it. Then.
I know a lot of women don't like math, but
I'm just the opposite. I love math. Oh wow, that
was one of my favorite subjects.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Yeah, and that was like your safe space when you
think about it.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Yeah. Even could you touch a little bit about the
trauma that occurred? Can you take us through a little
bit so people understand what trauma represents for you? And
I know you mentioned at the very beginning, but again
not to upset you or anything like this, but maybe
you could also be a voice for many that are
going through that and listening to this podcast today and
(07:17):
have been or going through the same situation or a
similar situation to you. That might be a wake up
call for them to do something or change what would
could you just walk us through some things?
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Well, watching the trauma when I grew up, I watched
my mom get physically abused, you know, back then. But
as far as the trauma myself going through my pre
teens and my teen years, basically a lot of unhealthy relationships,
searching for love and all the wrong places, you know,
just hooking up with people that wasn't didn't have my
(07:47):
best interests, you know, basically verbal abuse, you know, trying
to put me down. You know I'll never amount to nothing,
you know, just trying to make my you know, instead
of building myself as teamed up, just breaking me down basically.
So that's why I said verbal abuse, emotional abuse, physical
(08:08):
abuse myself, you know, having like boyfriends hit me, you know,
stuff like that. But all those situations I tried, I
knew it was wrong, and like I said, I always
knew it was wrong when I was younger, watching my
mom go through it, you know. But I always found
a way to get out of those situations, you know,
because I knew it was the right thing to do,
(08:29):
and I also knew I deserve better, you know, I
didn't have to go through that, you know, so I
found a way out, like a safe haven. But unfortunately,
back then I'm still young, so I went through one
help the relationship to the next and to the next.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Basically, thank you, thank you, for sharing that. Even what
about your siblings, the relationship growing up with your siblings.
Can you tell us a little bit about that, please?
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Yees A tight close relationship with my two older sisters
and my younger brother. But I have to say, throughout
the years, I have more. I'm closer to my brother
than I am with my two older sisters because me
and my brother was the only ones in the house
for years by ourselves. My two older sisters, you know,
(09:19):
they left the house when it was like fifteen or
sixteen years old, you know, what to do, what they
want to do, leaving with their boyfriends, so on and
so forth, getting pregnant, you know, just I guess call
themselves having fun. So that left me and my brother
for years and years and years before I got in trouble.
So I'm real close with my brother, but my sisters.
I love my sisters, of course, you know, we have
(09:40):
fun while they were home, you know, when I was
growing up with them.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
And when you look back now on your journey growing
up in your teen years, and you've shared quite a
little bit there. You mentioned like escapism, and you know,
as you said, you suffered the trauma throughout your life
from an early age. What are the things did you
do or was it very focused on a relationship or
having a relationship with others that you possibly didn't receive
(10:06):
whilst you're in the home. What was the focus on
outlet for you in your teen to lighteen years.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Another outlet was going to church. I always loved church. Basically,
I grew up in church. My grandmother used to take
us to church all the time, every Sunday, sometimes on
the weekday. You know, I grew up listening to different sermons,
you know, just the worship experience. You know, the choirs
are singing, you know, the worshiping. You know. I just
(10:33):
grew up in that environment, and it just calmed me down.
It gave me the strength I need. It just strengthened me,
you know, having a higher power. You know, it strengthened
me and helped me to endure the things that I
was going through and helped me cope and deal with
it better. You know. But the thing about it, when
I got my teenagers years, I pushed religion to the
(10:56):
wayside because now I want to do what I want
to do now. I want to go the parties, I
want to play, I want to have fun. Now I
don't want to go to church anymore, and I believe
that's the I regret that so bad now. I should
have held on too, you know, my religion and those
values my grandmother tried to instill in me. Okay, I
(11:17):
believe if I never pushed those values to the wayside,
I would never committed a crime.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Even could you describe yourself from your perspective growing up
as a child, your teenage is who you were prior
to your inconceration and the Eyvon sitting opposite me today,
if you wouldn't mind sharing with us how you would
perceive or how you believe you were and I today.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Well, growing up very quiet, subdued, you know, just basically, uh,
just going with the flow, you know, just taking it
one day at a time. I didn't let anybody in.
Notice I keep saying that, because when I grew up,
(12:05):
it's like I didn't want to upset nobody, you know,
I didn't want to compound their situation, you know, with mine.
You know, even though I'm a child, I just wanted
to deal with everything, I mean everything, all the traumatic experiences,
everything that I went through by myself, and I did.
I didn't say one word to nobody, no matter what
(12:27):
the experience was. Now in my teenage years, as I
mentioned earlier, still going through those traumatic experiences, you know,
and just coping to deal with it the wrong way. No,
not still not allowing nobody in, still coping to deal
(12:48):
with everything by myself, dealing with it the wrong way,
just being determined to go about things alone.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
And then came the time how will you, well, how
do you describe yourself prior to that incarceration. You mentioned
you're in jail for a period of time before coming
here to the state prison. What were you like? What
was going on for you, Yvonne, No doubt lots, but
what was going on? What was happening to you?
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Before my acroceration. I remember feeling real overwhelmed, just trying
to do things the right way, and it's like I
couldn't earn it fast enough. Not using an excuse, you know,
this is really how I felt. And since I couldn't
get what I want fast enough, I just chose the
(13:51):
wrong options. Now I went out of the wrong way
instead of reaching out for help aloud, letting people know
how I was feeling, what I was thinking, in order
for them to give me some suggestions and show me
other options that I had. I did it my way,
which I regret dearly, just feeling that frustration and anger
(14:13):
and desperation. It's like wanting things but just can't get
it fast enough. I remember trying to do it the
right way and that failed. And it's like as soon
as I tried doing it the right way and that felt,
I just turned and started doing it the negative way, automatically,
(14:37):
didn't allow nobody to give me feedback or anything else.
And that's exactly how I felt right before the crime occurred,
just choosing the wrong options. Looking back now, of course
I had a lot of options. Now, I didn't have
to commit a crime. You know, that's the last thing
I should have done, because I knew better. I knew
(14:59):
right from wrong from early age and my grandmother and
is still good values in me. I grew up listening
to my grandmother talk about the Ten Commandments. What do
they say? Dies shall not kill, dies shall not Still?
You know, I just chose the wrong path, and I
regret that dearly.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
And then when you were incarcerated in the jail before
coming to Seomanci, what was your experience like or could
you take us through what you experienced there, well before
I came to Monthy, Yes, before he came to the
state prison. Yeah, you mentioned you're incarcerated in a jail aunt.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Down the county, just blending in with the crowd. It's like,
for instance, I did not smoke on the street at
all down the county. Everybody's smoking, so I started smoking too.
I didn't drink coffee. Everybody drinking coffee. I started drinking
coffee too, Just trying to blend it with my environment,
you know, really don't know how to adjust for real,
you know, just wanted to blend in, act like I
(15:58):
know what's going on, like I'm an expert at something,
but for real, deep down the side, I'm afraid. You know,
I don't know these people from nowhere. I don't know
these women. No, of course most of them are from Philadelphia,
but I don't know them at all, or don't know
what they would do from moment to moment, you know,
just basically trying to adjust and fit in and be popular.
(16:19):
You know, back then, I'm only twenty one years old.
When I got arrested, I was twenty one, just turned
twenty one, So just trying to blend them with the.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Crowd, and then you came to Sei Muncie we are today.
Could you share going back when you first entered the
prison system, who have you become or who are you?
Or what's happened to Evonne?
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Well, when I first entered, when I first came to Monthsies,
I was very overwhelmed, very stressed out. Basically I came
up here, I'm looking around like a big campus to me,
a big college campus. That's basically how it looks back then.
Just trying to again adjust to my environment, adjust to
the women up here. Some of them are new from
the county, so it's so a lot of them wasn't strangers.
(17:05):
I knew them anyway. You know, they talked about Monsie
when I was in the county. I used to listen
all the time what they say about Monsie because I've
never been to Monthly before or this environment before. So
basically trying to adjust, you know, still angry, still bitter,
you know, trying to adjust not just to an environment,
(17:25):
but I'm trying to adjust to my life.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Sentence thank you?
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Could you at the same time thank you?
Speaker 1 (17:31):
And I didn't mean to interrupt, but yeah, that is
that is interesting. Can you share with anyone that's listening.
What does adjustment mean When you said adjusting to the environment,
What did you have to do? What changes did you
have to make?
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Well, basically talking to people, getting to know people, positive people,
you know, and so they can tell me about the environment. Uh,
just involving myself in different activities and things that was
going on around the case campus. You know, I adjusted
it in that way, you know, just sharing with certain people,
(18:06):
you know. But it wasn't an easy role when I
first got here. When I first got here, it's like
kind of negative situations I got myself into while I'm
trying to adjust.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Do you think that was age in experience, of course,
but age could be.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
I'm just twenty three when I, you know, finally came
to Muncie. So basically I'm trying to adjust and do things,
you know, sometimes in a negative way, you know, throughout
that adjustment. But as time go by, and I seen
the older women who are lifers doing things the positive way,
(18:43):
going to school, working, getting the education, you know, holding
their heads up high, you know, and and they guided
me in another direction. You know. Basically there was like
mentors or role models, you know, so I followed their
lead you know, I see them going to school. Oh yeah,
I want to go. I like school anyway, I love education,
(19:03):
you know. So one of the lifers, you know, she
got me and told me about tutoring detail, you know,
the help inmates receive a ged ged you know. So
I was doing that for like seven years, you know,
just helping out, you know, letting people know that it's
not too late to change their lives, it's not too
late to learn. They can always learn something new.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Could you explain what that looks like? So you mentioned
about being a mentor, you know, with education, what does
that look like someone that's listening. We've got a bit
of an understanding, but what what happens? What do you
actually do? Well?
Speaker 2 (19:40):
What I do is basically it was like a school environment.
We're literally sitting at the table with the student, you know,
and basically we're working on wherever they need work on
reading or history or math. You know, I love math.
You're helping them out with math.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
You're too intelligent for me, right.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
You know. Basically we're working one on one with them, and
I've been doing that for many years. Also, back then,
I was involved in a law backed literacy program, you know,
which is a one on one tutoring, you know, program
within itself. And also we had a program called Time
to Read, you know, basically helping the other inmates learn
how to read. You know. So I've been doing that
for many years. But my point is I modeled those
(20:21):
behaviors off from someone else. You know. I wanted to
do good now, even do I start off on the
wrong foot now, I wanted to do things that will
benefit me and benefit others in the long run. Now,
I want people to see that even though they hear
no change is possible, know they can change their lives
for the better.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
How many years into your sentence did this learning or
learn to behavior or realization? When did that change for you?
As you said, you came in at twenty three here
to see I'm unseeing you know what, that rebelliousness and
et cetera. But when did you move through and really
okay making the change on myself, I'm making a difference
(21:01):
for others. How long into your sentence did it take
for you too for that realization?
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Well? Four years later. Yeah, I came here eighty five,
so eighty nine, eighty eight, eighty nine, even though I
was still young then I'm still in my twenties, but
I just wanted to do things differently.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Right, And when you think about what you have done
and mentioned helping others, what would you like to continue doing? Well,
what do you think is needed to be done to
help women like yourself that are serving a life sentence.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Well, right now, I work as a certified peer support
specialist and I work in a mental health unit. It's
called an immediate treatment unit. You know, it's for those
who are you know, just mentally ill. And basically I
helped them, you know along the way, you know, just
go on door to door, you know, trying to inspire
and motivate them, you know, from day to day, you know,
(21:55):
showing them that you know, they can make a difference.
You know it's not too late, you know, so they
can do things they can achieve and succeed. Also within
that program, you know, I facilitate aa NA meetings because
not just mental health issues, some also have a drug
and alcohol you know history, right, So basically I help
(22:16):
them out on that aspect of it.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
And when you say help out, can you just further
explain a little bit more in your particular.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Wrong, Well, basically I chair the meetings, I share my story. Now,
I've been sharing my story for many years because I
used to also used to work in the drug and
acochol department, the therapeutic community for like ten years, you know,
helping those women you know, in that environment, you know,
change their lives for the better. So basically I'm just
(22:42):
sharing my story, listening to them, giving them feedback, you know,
positive feedback, just teaching them the tools they need to
change their lives or at least try to. Because we
have some women that come into the program, you know,
they know they need for parole. Not everybody, but some
people know. So they want to do that and you know,
(23:05):
complete it and get the certificate and make parole. But
the thing is they'll go home and repeat the same behaviors.
Why because they didn't change from within.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Do you find when the women that you help, no doubt,
all ages, is there a focus on the younger women
coming in the essence that you find that it's like
almost a revolving door. Some of the younger women coming
through the door, they're back in, they're out, they're back in.
Do you see that happening because I've heard that from
(23:36):
many women that have been serving the longest sentences that
sometimes it's very frustrating for them for the younger women
seeing the younger women come in, come out, come in,
come out, or what do you feel about them?
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Surprisingly, it's not frustrating for me because I look at
it like they just didn't change. They just didn't change
their lives yet. Know. I used to work also in
the missions watching the women come back and forth, back
and forth, in and out. Sometimes the same people know,
apparently they didn't change yet or don't want to change.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Yeah, that's a great way, a great perspective rather than
seeing they're frustrating, but again acknowledging they didn't change or
wish to change with things yet.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
Absolutely. But then the flip side is we have a
lot of success stories like the drug Alcohol Department. I
know a lot of women that graduated from there and
they never came back. Now, I know a lot of
people that left much superiod and they never came back
it or it took one experience for them to experience
this and that was it, that was their rock bottom
and they never came back, you know, because apparently they
(24:38):
went out there and changed their lives for the better,
you know, and pursue you know, positive things in order
to do so, thank you.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
I'm going to ask about friendships or relationships here in
the prison system itself, and then with your family if
you have visitors, do you see you know? Again? Could
you just maybe start with is it hard to build
friendships here? Or trust? Respect all of those things? What
what could you share about that? Well?
Speaker 2 (25:06):
With some people, this hard to build friendships because it's
the trust factor. You know, some people you just can't trust.
And then the flip side is but some people it's
easy to build friendships. Like me, for instance, I know
people over the campus of course because I've been there
for a long time. People in their unit, you know,
how you vine all day, how you vine no matter
what they're in all day long. Very popular, even some
(25:30):
new people. And even though I don't know them real well,
you know, I still give them that common courtesy, you know,
I still talk to people, you know, still give them advice,
you know, suggestions from day to day. Uh, you know,
I still be there for them, you know. But with
(25:51):
some people it's hard to trust. That goes back to
our experiences. See, some people have a lot of experience
in their background to where which allowed them not to
trust people, right you know, so it's real hard for
some people to do so. But it is possible to
build good friendships in this environment. I've seen it done.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
And what about your family members or who do you
keep in contact with your visitation or writing?
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Okay, Unfortunately, since I've been here, because I've been here
forty one years, Unfortunately, since I've been here, a lot
of my family members passed away. But my son, my
son is right now, my son is. I have the
closer relationship with my son. You know, he visits. You know,
we talk on the phone three times a week. Of
(26:44):
course I write them every week, you know, he writes
me in return, you know, and I just thank God
for that, you know that we have a close relationship,
because years ago we didn't. I wasn't sure what was
going on with him during his teenage year. Right now,
my son is forty two, he'll be forty three. But
when he was younger, I don't know. I believe he
(27:07):
was probably just angry and bitter, you know, as far
as my situation, or sad or depressed. You know, he
probably felt all kinds of things while he was growing up,
you know, wondering why I was here and had to
stay here year after year after year after year. You know,
it's like, where's mom, you know, or some kids blame themselves,
(27:30):
what did I do wrong? You know I must have
done something wrong. You know, Mom's in prison for years
and years. It must be my fault. Some kids blame
themselves or they be very angry at you for being away.
So I just thank god I have this strong supportive
relationship with my son, you know, it's a blessing. It
(27:50):
really is. Also my niece and nephew, you know, they
come up to visit. That's my brother's kids. My brother
passed away like about six years ago m hm, but
his kids that was their first time up here, no,
which was a blessing. I was so happy because I
haven't seen him in person, you know for years. I've
(28:11):
seen pictures of them when I was growing while they
were growing up. Right.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
You know that raises another point like I've experienced, is
the parenting for women inside the challenges. And I appreciate
you sharing that because, as you say, you've been here
for such a long time and there's mixed emotions, no
doubt on both sides. Absolutely, yes, so parenting. It's great
to hear from you about some it's insightful to hear
(28:36):
about that side of things. So thank you for that.
So the ivon that's sitting opposite to me right at
this very minute, what else would you like to share
about who you are and about your life? Something we
haven't touched on because I'm sure there's a lot, But
what would you like to share with.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Our listeners that I'm a very determined person. I can
see that red regardless of situation. Always been the type
of person that will hold my head up high, regardless
of what you know. I went up for commutation one time,
only went up one time. I was denied about three
years ago. But like I told the superintendent, you know,
but continue holding my head up high, continue doing the
(29:15):
positive things I've been doing, Continue being strong every day,
continue giving back to my peers, you know, helping them
along the way, you know, just basically taking it one
day at a time, sometimes one second at a time.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
Yes, even thank you and so important and just you
touched on the word commutation. And for people that don't understand,
because this is going internationally our podcast, there are other
countries that I'm not sure about what commutation means. Are
you able just to explain a little bit about the
(29:49):
process that you had to endure, even though, as you say,
it did not happen for you this time. Could you
talk us through about that process and what you felt
or going through that please.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Well, well, it's a process where well, the first step
we have the institution staffing. Here in the institution, we
have a staffing and we go through that process and
they recommend us or not. The second step is the
Merd review. Basically the Merd review, you have the Lieutenant Governor,
(30:22):
you have the Attorney General, a victim's advocate, corrections expert in,
a psychologist, and it's like all five of them sitting
around the table and they're voting to see wherever your
case has merit. You know, in order to move on
to the public hearing. Now, during this Merd review, we
(30:43):
have to get three votes out of five. If you
don't get three votes out of five, you're denied right there.
And it's basically what happened with me. I didn't go
no further. If I would have went any further, I
would have went to the public hearing. Not the public hearing.
You know, we have your family members of supporters on
one side. Of course, you have the victim's family on
(31:05):
the other side. And then once that hearing is over,
you need all five votes. Now all five members has
to say yes. You know, if they say yes, it
moves on to the governor's death. But throughout the whole process,
it's like real overwhelming, overwhelming feeling. It's like you're reliving.
(31:27):
You know, you're not really reliving, but you're talking about
the crime, which some people it's real stressed out absolutely
to talk about that, you know, with different people overwhelm
just I don't know, sad and just all different types
(31:51):
of films. While you're going through that process.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
It's most interesting hearing you talk about that because you know,
even though you did not receive the commutation here you
are still energetic, vibrant, positive, sitting in front of me. Yes,
And I think that's that's that's that's amazing, that's amazing. Yeah,
thank you. I know we've just got a few minutes left.
(32:18):
Even what else can we learn about you? What would
you like for our listeners to hear?
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Well, if one day, if I do make commutation, you know,
I believe I will be a very positive, productive citizen
in society. You know, basically what I would do is
I would take all that I learned here in essay
on Muncie and apply it to my life out there
(32:47):
and teach others. You know, I would love to be
a motivational speaker, you know, share my experiences. Why because
I won't want nobody else to go through this. No,
I will tell them no to you know, just take
their time and realize all the options they have around
them instead of making rash choices and decisions. You know,
(33:11):
sometimes we make a mistake. It takes one second to
affect the rest of your life, so all it takes
is one second, you know. But I will I would
just be a very productive sentence in society if given
the opportunity. But until then, I will continue to hold
my head up by.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
I think it's wonderful. Well, I think that's all that
we'll talk about today. Even it has been a pleasure
talking to you and getting to know you very much,
appreciate very much. So we're going to wrap it up
now and again, thank our listeners, and thank you Eyvon.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
Thank you, thank you for joining us on another episode
of Self Identities. Conversations with Convicted Women, A Flying Possums
production in association with Nutter Productions. We deeply appreciate the
(34:14):
support of our listeners and the contributions from everyone who
has made this podcast possible. Your engagement and encouragement drive
us to continue these important conversations until next time.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
Take care,
We'd like to acknowledge for our listeners just upfront that
what you will hear from individual incarcerated women throughout the
episode you may find to be emotionally charged and even disturbing,
So we just want to acknowledge that and make you
aware of that. Furthermore, something that listeners probably don't realize
(00:24):
is that all of our individual conversations with each woman
was recorded inside a maximum security prison, the State Correctional
Institution SCI Munsey in Pennsylvania here in the United States.
So the noise, there's any chatter, anything in the background.
(00:46):
For our listeners just to understand that we actually recorded
inside a prison where the day goes on. The women,
the officers, the staff, they all have their jobs. Just
because we're there, it doesn't stop or everything becomes So
if you do, as listeners, hear any background noise, please
understand that is part of being inside a prison. Hello everyone,
(01:20):
and thank you for tuning in to our podcast, Self
Identities Conversations with Convicted Women. My name is doctor Catherine Whiteley.
I'm a feminist criminologist, and today I'm visiting SCI Muncie,
a state correctional facility for women in Pennsylvania in the
(01:42):
United States and joining me today is Evon. Welcome Evon.
Great to see you.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Great to see you too.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Thank you, and thank you for sharing a bit about
your life with us today. So, Yvonne, we have only
met once through a zoom, so we've never sat with
you each other face to face. This is a first
for both of us. So I'm going to learn so
much about you today on our podcast. And maybe we
could start with how old are you today sitting opposite
(02:12):
me here in the facility?
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Sixty two?
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Sixty two? And how old were you, Yvonne when you
first entered sei Munci.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Well, when I was arrested, I was twenty one, but
I came here two years later, so twenty three when
I came to Mondsey.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Twenty three. My goodness, You've got a lot to share
about your experience, haven't you. So when we talk about
life in general, I usually like to take you back
to your childhood. You know, where you grew up, what
was your education like? So would you like to share
with me a little bit about growing up where you
grew up and what was it like for you?
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Well, I grew up in Philadelphia area with my mom.
You know, she was a single parent. You know, I
have two older sisters and one younger brother, and my
mother tried to do the best she could, you know,
what what she had. You know, she didn't really have
a job, you know, so we were on welfare, you know,
so she basically tried to give us what we needed,
(03:09):
more so than what we wanted. You know, I just
grew up, you know, in the loving environment. You know,
my mom did have like different boyfriends, so I had
like different adult figures around me growing up. You know,
even though they weren't married. I witnessed you know, different
types of abuse within the home setting. I remember at
(03:33):
an early age, you know, watching my mom, you know,
be abused, and how it really affected me back then,
even though I was real young, you know, even though
I was at a tender age, I knew it was wrong.
I knew I was watching something that was deadly wrong.
You know, that wasn't the right thing to do, and
it really affected me. You know, I wanted to help
my mom so bad, but I was too young to
(03:53):
do so because I remember really wanting to help her,
but I didn't know how, you know, at that age.
So basically, you know, a little dysfunctional family, you know,
growing up, drugs and alcohol came into play. You know,
as time went by, I started experiencing that myself. Growing up.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
How old were you even when you talk about started
experiencing that the drugs and alcohol? How old were you then?
Speaker 2 (04:18):
I say, about, say about ten years old watching my
mom drink beer, you know, smoke marijuana. Basically I modeled
those behaviors after her. You know, I started sneaking beer
out the refrigerator, you know, drinking it myself, you know,
smoking marijuana myself. But as I got into my preteen years,
(04:40):
I went through a couple traumatic experiences myself as far
as different types of abuse and unhealthy relationships. So in
order to cope and deal with those things I was
going through, I started using drugs.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Now.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
I didn't want to talk about it, and I was
too ashamed and embarrassed. I didn't want to tell anybody,
you know, so I just self medicated. Now. I basically
wanted to cope and deal with it by myself. You know,
I grew up always a quiet child, a type of
child that you know, just laid back in the cut,
you know, coping and deal with everything by myself. I
really didn't want to talk about things. You know, I
(05:16):
didn't want to upset my mom because she was already
going through things herself, you know. So basically all my
life it's like holding everything in, you know, not reaching
out for help, you know. And that pattern stayed with
me all the way till twenty one years of age,
from the time I got locked up.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Right, thank you. Could we go back a little bit too.
You mentioned growing up and the trauma, of course, and
I will touch a little bit on that in a minute.
But education wise, while all this is happening in your
home environment, what was your education? Oh?
Speaker 2 (05:47):
I always loved school, did you I always loved school.
I think sometimes I looked at it like an escape,
you know, a different environment, you know, because, like I said,
my home life was a little functional. So when I
went to school, you know, I have fun playing with
other kids, playing games, you know, run around the playground.
You know, I have fun at school. And I always
(06:09):
knew from a very early age that education is so important,
and that stayed with me throughout time, you know, as
I got older. Now, I always love to learn. You
can always learn something new, you know, something different.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
What is it that you love to learn? Even growing up?
As you said, education wise, what was like your favorite
course topic to study or to learn about.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
I always love math, really and I love math because
I looked at it like a challenge. I know I
could solve this problem. It's a solution to this problem.
I'm going to find it. That's how I looked at it. Then.
I know a lot of women don't like math, but
I'm just the opposite. I love math. Oh wow, that
was one of my favorite subjects.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Yeah, and that was like your safe space when you
think about it.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Yeah. Even could you touch a little bit about the
trauma that occurred? Can you take us through a little
bit so people understand what trauma represents for you? And
I know you mentioned at the very beginning, but again
not to upset you or anything like this, but maybe
you could also be a voice for many that are
going through that and listening to this podcast today and
(07:17):
have been or going through the same situation or a
similar situation to you. That might be a wake up
call for them to do something or change what would
could you just walk us through some things?
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Well, watching the trauma when I grew up, I watched
my mom get physically abused, you know, back then. But
as far as the trauma myself going through my pre
teens and my teen years, basically a lot of unhealthy relationships,
searching for love and all the wrong places, you know,
just hooking up with people that wasn't didn't have my
(07:47):
best interests, you know, basically verbal abuse, you know, trying
to put me down. You know I'll never amount to nothing,
you know, just trying to make my you know, instead
of building myself as teamed up, just breaking me down basically.
So that's why I said verbal abuse, emotional abuse, physical
(08:08):
abuse myself, you know, having like boyfriends hit me, you know,
stuff like that. But all those situations I tried, I
knew it was wrong, and like I said, I always
knew it was wrong when I was younger, watching my
mom go through it, you know. But I always found
a way to get out of those situations, you know,
because I knew it was the right thing to do,
(08:29):
and I also knew I deserve better, you know, I
didn't have to go through that, you know, so I
found a way out, like a safe haven. But unfortunately,
back then I'm still young, so I went through one
help the relationship to the next and to the next.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Basically, thank you, thank you, for sharing that. Even what
about your siblings, the relationship growing up with your siblings.
Can you tell us a little bit about that, please?
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Yees A tight close relationship with my two older sisters
and my younger brother. But I have to say, throughout
the years, I have more. I'm closer to my brother
than I am with my two older sisters because me
and my brother was the only ones in the house
for years by ourselves. My two older sisters, you know,
(09:19):
they left the house when it was like fifteen or
sixteen years old, you know, what to do, what they
want to do, leaving with their boyfriends, so on and
so forth, getting pregnant, you know, just I guess call
themselves having fun. So that left me and my brother
for years and years and years before I got in trouble.
So I'm real close with my brother, but my sisters.
I love my sisters, of course, you know, we have
(09:40):
fun while they were home, you know, when I was
growing up with them.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
And when you look back now on your journey growing
up in your teen years, and you've shared quite a
little bit there. You mentioned like escapism, and you know,
as you said, you suffered the trauma throughout your life
from an early age. What are the things did you
do or was it very focused on a relationship or
having a relationship with others that you possibly didn't receive
(10:06):
whilst you're in the home. What was the focus on
outlet for you in your teen to lighteen years.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Another outlet was going to church. I always loved church. Basically,
I grew up in church. My grandmother used to take
us to church all the time, every Sunday, sometimes on
the weekday. You know, I grew up listening to different sermons,
you know, just the worship experience. You know, the choirs
are singing, you know, the worshiping. You know. I just
(10:33):
grew up in that environment, and it just calmed me down.
It gave me the strength I need. It just strengthened me,
you know, having a higher power. You know, it strengthened
me and helped me to endure the things that I
was going through and helped me cope and deal with
it better. You know. But the thing about it, when
I got my teenagers years, I pushed religion to the
(10:56):
wayside because now I want to do what I want
to do now. I want to go the parties, I
want to play, I want to have fun. Now I
don't want to go to church anymore, and I believe
that's the I regret that so bad now. I should
have held on too, you know, my religion and those
values my grandmother tried to instill in me. Okay, I
(11:17):
believe if I never pushed those values to the wayside,
I would never committed a crime.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Even could you describe yourself from your perspective growing up
as a child, your teenage is who you were prior
to your inconceration and the Eyvon sitting opposite me today,
if you wouldn't mind sharing with us how you would
perceive or how you believe you were and I today.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Well, growing up very quiet, subdued, you know, just basically, uh,
just going with the flow, you know, just taking it
one day at a time. I didn't let anybody in.
Notice I keep saying that, because when I grew up,
(12:05):
it's like I didn't want to upset nobody, you know,
I didn't want to compound their situation, you know, with mine.
You know, even though I'm a child, I just wanted
to deal with everything, I mean everything, all the traumatic experiences,
everything that I went through by myself, and I did.
I didn't say one word to nobody, no matter what
(12:27):
the experience was. Now in my teenage years, as I
mentioned earlier, still going through those traumatic experiences, you know,
and just coping to deal with it the wrong way. No,
not still not allowing nobody in, still coping to deal
(12:48):
with everything by myself, dealing with it the wrong way,
just being determined to go about things alone.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
And then came the time how will you, well, how
do you describe yourself prior to that incarceration. You mentioned
you're in jail for a period of time before coming
here to the state prison. What were you like? What
was going on for you, Yvonne, No doubt lots, but
what was going on? What was happening to you?
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Before my acroceration. I remember feeling real overwhelmed, just trying
to do things the right way, and it's like I
couldn't earn it fast enough. Not using an excuse, you know,
this is really how I felt. And since I couldn't
get what I want fast enough, I just chose the
(13:51):
wrong options. Now I went out of the wrong way
instead of reaching out for help aloud, letting people know
how I was feeling, what I was thinking, in order
for them to give me some suggestions and show me
other options that I had. I did it my way,
which I regret dearly, just feeling that frustration and anger
(14:13):
and desperation. It's like wanting things but just can't get
it fast enough. I remember trying to do it the
right way and that failed. And it's like as soon
as I tried doing it the right way and that felt,
I just turned and started doing it the negative way, automatically,
(14:37):
didn't allow nobody to give me feedback or anything else.
And that's exactly how I felt right before the crime occurred,
just choosing the wrong options. Looking back now, of course
I had a lot of options. Now, I didn't have
to commit a crime. You know, that's the last thing
I should have done, because I knew better. I knew
(14:59):
right from wrong from early age and my grandmother and
is still good values in me. I grew up listening
to my grandmother talk about the Ten Commandments. What do
they say? Dies shall not kill, dies shall not Still?
You know, I just chose the wrong path, and I
regret that dearly.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
And then when you were incarcerated in the jail before
coming to Seomanci, what was your experience like or could
you take us through what you experienced there, well before
I came to Monthy, Yes, before he came to the
state prison. Yeah, you mentioned you're incarcerated in a jail aunt.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Down the county, just blending in with the crowd. It's like,
for instance, I did not smoke on the street at
all down the county. Everybody's smoking, so I started smoking too.
I didn't drink coffee. Everybody drinking coffee. I started drinking
coffee too, Just trying to blend it with my environment,
you know, really don't know how to adjust for real,
you know, just wanted to blend in, act like I
(15:58):
know what's going on, like I'm an expert at something,
but for real, deep down the side, I'm afraid. You know,
I don't know these people from nowhere. I don't know
these women. No, of course most of them are from Philadelphia,
but I don't know them at all, or don't know
what they would do from moment to moment, you know,
just basically trying to adjust and fit in and be popular.
(16:19):
You know, back then, I'm only twenty one years old.
When I got arrested, I was twenty one, just turned
twenty one, So just trying to blend them with the.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Crowd, and then you came to Sei Muncie we are today.
Could you share going back when you first entered the
prison system, who have you become or who are you?
Or what's happened to Evonne?
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Well, when I first entered, when I first came to Monthsies,
I was very overwhelmed, very stressed out. Basically I came
up here, I'm looking around like a big campus to me,
a big college campus. That's basically how it looks back then.
Just trying to again adjust to my environment, adjust to
the women up here. Some of them are new from
the county, so it's so a lot of them wasn't strangers.
(17:05):
I knew them anyway. You know, they talked about Monsie
when I was in the county. I used to listen
all the time what they say about Monsie because I've
never been to Monthly before or this environment before. So
basically trying to adjust, you know, still angry, still bitter,
you know, trying to adjust not just to an environment,
(17:25):
but I'm trying to adjust to my life.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Sentence thank you?
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Could you at the same time thank you?
Speaker 1 (17:31):
And I didn't mean to interrupt, but yeah, that is
that is interesting. Can you share with anyone that's listening.
What does adjustment mean When you said adjusting to the environment,
What did you have to do? What changes did you
have to make?
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Well, basically talking to people, getting to know people, positive people,
you know, and so they can tell me about the environment. Uh,
just involving myself in different activities and things that was
going on around the case campus. You know, I adjusted
it in that way, you know, just sharing with certain people,
(18:06):
you know. But it wasn't an easy role when I
first got here. When I first got here, it's like
kind of negative situations I got myself into while I'm
trying to adjust.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Do you think that was age in experience, of course,
but age could be.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
I'm just twenty three when I, you know, finally came
to Muncie. So basically I'm trying to adjust and do things,
you know, sometimes in a negative way, you know, throughout
that adjustment. But as time go by, and I seen
the older women who are lifers doing things the positive way,
(18:43):
going to school, working, getting the education, you know, holding
their heads up high, you know, and and they guided
me in another direction. You know. Basically there was like
mentors or role models, you know, so I followed their
lead you know, I see them going to school. Oh yeah,
I want to go. I like school anyway, I love education,
(19:03):
you know. So one of the lifers, you know, she
got me and told me about tutoring detail, you know,
the help inmates receive a ged ged you know. So
I was doing that for like seven years, you know,
just helping out, you know, letting people know that it's
not too late to change their lives, it's not too
late to learn. They can always learn something new.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Could you explain what that looks like? So you mentioned
about being a mentor, you know, with education, what does
that look like someone that's listening. We've got a bit
of an understanding, but what what happens? What do you
actually do? Well?
Speaker 2 (19:40):
What I do is basically it was like a school environment.
We're literally sitting at the table with the student, you know,
and basically we're working on wherever they need work on
reading or history or math. You know, I love math.
You're helping them out with math.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
You're too intelligent for me, right.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
You know. Basically we're working one on one with them, and
I've been doing that for many years. Also, back then,
I was involved in a law backed literacy program, you know,
which is a one on one tutoring, you know, program
within itself. And also we had a program called Time
to Read, you know, basically helping the other inmates learn
how to read. You know. So I've been doing that
for many years. But my point is I modeled those
(20:21):
behaviors off from someone else. You know. I wanted to
do good now, even do I start off on the
wrong foot now, I wanted to do things that will
benefit me and benefit others in the long run. Now,
I want people to see that even though they hear
no change is possible, know they can change their lives
for the better.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
How many years into your sentence did this learning or
learn to behavior or realization? When did that change for you?
As you said, you came in at twenty three here
to see I'm unseeing you know what, that rebelliousness and
et cetera. But when did you move through and really
okay making the change on myself, I'm making a difference
(21:01):
for others. How long into your sentence did it take
for you too for that realization?
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Well? Four years later. Yeah, I came here eighty five,
so eighty nine, eighty eight, eighty nine, even though I
was still young then I'm still in my twenties, but
I just wanted to do things differently.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Right, And when you think about what you have done
and mentioned helping others, what would you like to continue doing? Well,
what do you think is needed to be done to
help women like yourself that are serving a life sentence.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Well, right now, I work as a certified peer support
specialist and I work in a mental health unit. It's
called an immediate treatment unit. You know, it's for those
who are you know, just mentally ill. And basically I
helped them, you know along the way, you know, just
go on door to door, you know, trying to inspire
and motivate them, you know, from day to day, you know,
(21:55):
showing them that you know, they can make a difference.
You know it's not too late, you know, so they
can do things they can achieve and succeed. Also within
that program, you know, I facilitate aa NA meetings because
not just mental health issues, some also have a drug
and alcohol you know history, right, So basically I help
(22:16):
them out on that aspect of it.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
And when you say help out, can you just further
explain a little bit more in your particular.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Wrong, Well, basically I chair the meetings, I share my story. Now,
I've been sharing my story for many years because I
used to also used to work in the drug and
acochol department, the therapeutic community for like ten years, you know,
helping those women you know, in that environment, you know,
change their lives for the better. So basically I'm just
(22:42):
sharing my story, listening to them, giving them feedback, you know,
positive feedback, just teaching them the tools they need to
change their lives or at least try to. Because we
have some women that come into the program, you know,
they know they need for parole. Not everybody, but some
people know. So they want to do that and you know,
(23:05):
complete it and get the certificate and make parole. But
the thing is they'll go home and repeat the same behaviors.
Why because they didn't change from within.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Do you find when the women that you help, no doubt,
all ages, is there a focus on the younger women
coming in the essence that you find that it's like
almost a revolving door. Some of the younger women coming
through the door, they're back in, they're out, they're back in.
Do you see that happening because I've heard that from
(23:36):
many women that have been serving the longest sentences that
sometimes it's very frustrating for them for the younger women
seeing the younger women come in, come out, come in,
come out, or what do you feel about them?
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Surprisingly, it's not frustrating for me because I look at
it like they just didn't change. They just didn't change
their lives yet. Know. I used to work also in
the missions watching the women come back and forth, back
and forth, in and out. Sometimes the same people know,
apparently they didn't change yet or don't want to change.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Yeah, that's a great way, a great perspective rather than
seeing they're frustrating, but again acknowledging they didn't change or
wish to change with things yet.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
Absolutely. But then the flip side is we have a
lot of success stories like the drug Alcohol Department. I
know a lot of women that graduated from there and
they never came back. Now, I know a lot of
people that left much superiod and they never came back
it or it took one experience for them to experience
this and that was it, that was their rock bottom
and they never came back, you know, because apparently they
(24:38):
went out there and changed their lives for the better,
you know, and pursue you know, positive things in order
to do so, thank you.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
I'm going to ask about friendships or relationships here in
the prison system itself, and then with your family if
you have visitors, do you see you know? Again? Could
you just maybe start with is it hard to build
friendships here? Or trust? Respect all of those things? What
what could you share about that? Well?
Speaker 2 (25:06):
With some people, this hard to build friendships because it's
the trust factor. You know, some people you just can't trust.
And then the flip side is but some people it's
easy to build friendships. Like me, for instance, I know
people over the campus of course because I've been there
for a long time. People in their unit, you know,
how you vine all day, how you vine no matter
what they're in all day long. Very popular, even some
(25:30):
new people. And even though I don't know them real well,
you know, I still give them that common courtesy, you know,
I still talk to people, you know, still give them advice,
you know, suggestions from day to day. Uh, you know,
I still be there for them, you know. But with
(25:51):
some people it's hard to trust. That goes back to
our experiences. See, some people have a lot of experience
in their background to where which allowed them not to
trust people, right you know, so it's real hard for
some people to do so. But it is possible to
build good friendships in this environment. I've seen it done.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
And what about your family members or who do you
keep in contact with your visitation or writing?
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Okay, Unfortunately, since I've been here, because I've been here
forty one years, Unfortunately, since I've been here, a lot
of my family members passed away. But my son, my
son is right now, my son is. I have the
closer relationship with my son. You know, he visits. You know,
we talk on the phone three times a week. Of
(26:44):
course I write them every week, you know, he writes
me in return, you know, and I just thank God
for that, you know that we have a close relationship,
because years ago we didn't. I wasn't sure what was
going on with him during his teenage year. Right now,
my son is forty two, he'll be forty three. But
when he was younger, I don't know. I believe he
(27:07):
was probably just angry and bitter, you know, as far
as my situation, or sad or depressed. You know, he
probably felt all kinds of things while he was growing up,
you know, wondering why I was here and had to
stay here year after year after year after year. You know,
it's like, where's mom, you know, or some kids blame themselves,
(27:30):
what did I do wrong? You know I must have
done something wrong. You know, Mom's in prison for years
and years. It must be my fault. Some kids blame
themselves or they be very angry at you for being away.
So I just thank god I have this strong supportive
relationship with my son, you know, it's a blessing. It
(27:50):
really is. Also my niece and nephew, you know, they
come up to visit. That's my brother's kids. My brother
passed away like about six years ago m hm, but
his kids that was their first time up here, no,
which was a blessing. I was so happy because I
haven't seen him in person, you know for years. I've
(28:11):
seen pictures of them when I was growing while they
were growing up. Right.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
You know that raises another point like I've experienced, is
the parenting for women inside the challenges. And I appreciate
you sharing that because, as you say, you've been here
for such a long time and there's mixed emotions, no
doubt on both sides. Absolutely, yes, so parenting. It's great
to hear from you about some it's insightful to hear
(28:36):
about that side of things. So thank you for that.
So the ivon that's sitting opposite to me right at
this very minute, what else would you like to share
about who you are and about your life? Something we
haven't touched on because I'm sure there's a lot, But
what would you like to share with.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Our listeners that I'm a very determined person. I can
see that red regardless of situation. Always been the type
of person that will hold my head up high, regardless
of what you know. I went up for commutation one time,
only went up one time. I was denied about three
years ago. But like I told the superintendent, you know,
but continue holding my head up high, continue doing the
(29:15):
positive things I've been doing, Continue being strong every day,
continue giving back to my peers, you know, helping them
along the way, you know, just basically taking it one
day at a time, sometimes one second at a time.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
Yes, even thank you and so important and just you
touched on the word commutation. And for people that don't understand,
because this is going internationally our podcast, there are other
countries that I'm not sure about what commutation means. Are
you able just to explain a little bit about the
(29:49):
process that you had to endure, even though, as you say,
it did not happen for you this time. Could you
talk us through about that process and what you felt
or going through that please.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Well, well, it's a process where well, the first step
we have the institution staffing. Here in the institution, we
have a staffing and we go through that process and
they recommend us or not. The second step is the
Merd review. Basically the Merd review, you have the Lieutenant Governor,
(30:22):
you have the Attorney General, a victim's advocate, corrections expert in,
a psychologist, and it's like all five of them sitting
around the table and they're voting to see wherever your
case has merit. You know, in order to move on
to the public hearing. Now, during this Merd review, we
(30:43):
have to get three votes out of five. If you
don't get three votes out of five, you're denied right there.
And it's basically what happened with me. I didn't go
no further. If I would have went any further, I
would have went to the public hearing. Not the public hearing.
You know, we have your family members of supporters on
one side. Of course, you have the victim's family on
(31:05):
the other side. And then once that hearing is over,
you need all five votes. Now all five members has
to say yes. You know, if they say yes, it
moves on to the governor's death. But throughout the whole process,
it's like real overwhelming, overwhelming feeling. It's like you're reliving.
(31:27):
You know, you're not really reliving, but you're talking about
the crime, which some people it's real stressed out absolutely
to talk about that, you know, with different people overwhelm
just I don't know, sad and just all different types
(31:51):
of films. While you're going through that process.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
It's most interesting hearing you talk about that because you know,
even though you did not receive the commutation here you
are still energetic, vibrant, positive, sitting in front of me. Yes,
And I think that's that's that's that's amazing, that's amazing. Yeah,
thank you. I know we've just got a few minutes left.
(32:18):
Even what else can we learn about you? What would
you like for our listeners to hear?
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Well, if one day, if I do make commutation, you know,
I believe I will be a very positive, productive citizen
in society. You know, basically what I would do is
I would take all that I learned here in essay
on Muncie and apply it to my life out there
(32:47):
and teach others. You know, I would love to be
a motivational speaker, you know, share my experiences. Why because
I won't want nobody else to go through this. No,
I will tell them no to you know, just take
their time and realize all the options they have around
them instead of making rash choices and decisions. You know,
(33:11):
sometimes we make a mistake. It takes one second to
affect the rest of your life, so all it takes
is one second, you know. But I will I would
just be a very productive sentence in society if given
the opportunity. But until then, I will continue to hold
my head up by.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
I think it's wonderful. Well, I think that's all that
we'll talk about today. Even it has been a pleasure
talking to you and getting to know you very much,
appreciate very much. So we're going to wrap it up
now and again, thank our listeners, and thank you Eyvon.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
Thank you, thank you for joining us on another episode
of Self Identities. Conversations with Convicted Women, A Flying Possums
production in association with Nutter Productions. We deeply appreciate the
(34:14):
support of our listeners and the contributions from everyone who
has made this podcast possible. Your engagement and encouragement drive
us to continue these important conversations until next time.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
Take care,
Popular Podcasts
CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist
It’s 1996 in rural North Carolina, and an oddball crew makes history when they pull off America’s third largest cash heist. But it’s all downhill from there. Join host Johnny Knoxville as he unspools a wild and woolly tale about a group of regular ‘ol folks who risked it all for a chance at a better life. CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist answers the question: what would you do with 17.3 million dollars? The answer includes diamond rings, mansions, velvet Elvis paintings, plus a run for the border, murder-for-hire-plots, and FBI busts.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.