June 16, 2025 • 44 mins
Listen in as host Steve Kuker, President of Senior Care Consulting, reviews a little bit of everything including how the waiting list works at a senior care community and what happens if you decline an available space. He also explains what a Care Contract is, why you need one, and what could happen if you don’t have one. Spoiler alert: not having one could cause a major Medicaid penalty! If you do encounter a Medicaid penalty, Steve discusses the Medicaid Penalty Divisor and how to calculate your penalty. Can you transfer your house to your adult child? Learn about the Caretaker Child Exemption. And, Steve wishes all the great Dads out there a Happy Father’s Day! #SeniorCare #SeniorCareLive #SeniorCareConsulting #SeniorLiving #KansasCitySeniorCare #SeniorCarePlacement #SeniorCareAdvisor #Franchise #SeniorCareFranchise (800) 331-6445
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Are you caring for an aging loved one? Are you
a senior searching for answers? Welcome to Senior Care Live,
a program dedicated to you, providing information, education and resources
for seniors and their caregivers. And now America's Senior Care consultant,
Steve Keicker.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Hello, and welcome to Senior Care Live. I'm Steve Keeker.
You're Senior Care Consultant, and I really appreciate you tuning
in today and I have a little bit of everything
for you today on tap. And it's just I'm going
to be talking about several different things that I think
a lot of people just they just don't know, They
(00:46):
just don't know about this stuff. And if you've listened
for any time at all, you know the mission of
Senior Care Live is to provide information, education and resources
for seniors and their caregivers. And a a large number
of people working in the business of senior care also
listen to this program, and I'm very honored by that
(01:08):
as well. So let's jump into this and I'm just
going to touch on on literally a little a little
bit of everything today. So let's let's talk about right
out of the gate. Here a waiting list and we're
talking about a waiting list to get into a senior
care community. So, you know, last week I talked about
(01:29):
what to determine before beginning your search. But let's say
you're past that, you've chosen a place, but there's a
waiting list. And you know, when I'm working with my
clients at with Senior Care Consulting, we have this discussion
pretty much every time, and we talk about the timing
of when are you needing to move from your home
to a senior care community? Now? Sometimes guess what stuff
(01:53):
happens right, and so we have to move quickly and
we have we're reactive. We're reacting to a crisis or
a situation that may have been unexpected, but more often
than not, we see the need coming. And most of
my clients have listened to me preach about proactive, proactive, proactive,
(02:16):
don't wait until the last second, and they think that's
pretty good advice, and so they'll call me on those
a Steve, we're getting pretty close. We don't need a
place yet, but we can see this coming in the
next three months, six months, twelve months, whatever it might be.
And so we talk about waiting lists, and I get
the question all the time to most of these places
(02:37):
have a waiting list, and I would say, well, it
depends on the place. So what is a waiting list.
We have a couple of different types of waiting lists.
You have an internal waiting list, and then you have
an external waiting list. So let's say you are a community,
and let's say you're a continuing care retirement community. This
(02:58):
is a pretty common example where you have independent living,
assisted living, and long term care. If you're an independent
living and you can see the need for assisted living
coming sooner than later, then you would be placed on
an internal waiting list, meaning you would have first right
of refusal because you already live there. You're already a
(03:19):
part of the community. So what is an external waiting
list relative to a continuing care retirement community. All right,
so you're independent living, I'm going to move to assisted living.
You're on that n acc RC, you're on that internal
wait list. But they also have an external waiting list,
meaning maybe you don't live there yet. Maybe you're you're
(03:42):
waiting to move from home to the senior care community,
but you're coming straight into assisted living. Well, you would
not have that first ride of refusal if you will
on that assisted living apartment, you would, but if no
one internally speaks up for that apartment, or maybe that's
not needed at this time, then they will fill that
apartment with someone outside of their community from that external
(04:04):
waiting list. So hopefully, hopefully that makes sense. So what
if you're moving into just like a freestanding assisted living community. Okay,
it's all an external waitlist because it's all assisted living
and they don't have the different levels of care. So
the waiting list is you speak up, you raise your hand,
(04:26):
I want to be on the wait list. Some places
would charge a weightless deposit fee of maybe say five
hundred dollars, which is fully refundable if you should change
your mind, no worries at all, but it would secure
your place on the wait list. A lot of places
don't charge that. They just keep a waiting list. And
(04:47):
it is very common to encounter a waiting list during
certain times of the year where the peak demand is
a lot higher. Actually, and I'll talk about that in
just a second. And if you are one of the
better performing or one of the top performing senior care communities,
(05:08):
guess what, everyone wants to go there and receive their care.
So the demand, maybe for a particular place, is higher
than maybe another place, and so you raise your hand,
you put your name on the weight list. You may
or may not have a deposit for that weight list,
and again, it's pretty common to encounter that waiting list,
(05:28):
depending on the place and the time of year. So
how does a waiting list work? So let's say you're
down on the weight list, and then you're rising, and
you're rising, and a few months down the road, your
name climbs up to the top of the list, and
now you're first on the list. And then a week
(05:49):
or two later, they give you a call. Are you
ready to move yet? We have an apartment available, or
we have a bed available, we have a spot available,
space available for you. Nope, we're not quite ready to move.
So call me the next time you have a space available.
So the question is, are you going to get bumped
(06:10):
down to the bottom of the list. How dare you
turn down our opening? No, the vast majority of places
do not work that way, and your name stays at
number one. And then what they're going to do is
they're going to call number two, number three, number four,
number five until someone takes the space. And here's a
(06:32):
really common. Example, they'll call number two. Number two says, hey,
we couldn't wait any longer. We really needed to move.
We chose another place, so go ahead and take us
off the list. Okay, all right, thank you, thanks for
letting us know. They'll call number three. Number three says, hey, Steve,
my dad passed away kind of unexpectedly. We'll no longer
need your services. We're sorry to hear about that, and
(06:56):
we'll take your name off of the list, and then
they'll call the next person down the call number four.
Number four said, hey, you know, we needed to move.
We made some decisions and we moved mom to the Phoenix,
Arizona area where I've got a couple of brothers and
family members there, and Mom ended up moving there, So
(07:18):
we'll no longer need your services. Okay, sure, thanks thanks
for letting us know. And then number five says, we'll
take it. We will take it. We're ready to move.
So then number six moves up to number two. Number
seven moves up to number three, Number eight moves up
to number four. You see how this goes. But you
(07:38):
remain at number one, and then they'll just keep calling
you over and over and over again until the timing
is right. So I work with again with my firm
Senior Care consulting, with so many clients. I'm working with
clients today who are in this exact situation. We know
we're going to need to move. A couple of my
(08:00):
clients right now are wanting to move by the end
of the year and so, but we also have them
on waiting lists because the place, the places that they're
interested in, they do have a wait list, and what
if they call them here in the middle of the summer,
they're not ready to move yet, and we're going to
do the same thing. But what we've done, the point
(08:21):
is is that we've gotten out ahead of the need.
We're being proactive. We've done our market research, we've done
our homework, we've made some decisions, and we have our
name on a waiting list or two. And then we're
now we've already done that. We're past that, and that's
that's a there's a lot of peace of mind knowing
(08:41):
where your next home is. Now. We're just managing the
timing and managing the wait list and hopefully that makes sense.
So that is how a waiting list works, and you know,
that's how the majority of people or or communities work
a waiting list. There are only maybe a place or two,
(09:04):
maybe a couple places that actually do move you to
the bottom of the list. But that is not that
kind of drives me crazy. That is not the normal
standard industry way to work a waiting list. And then
I mentioned the seasonal demand. So in January, February, and March,
you have the highest level of demand. There's always a
(09:27):
demand for senior care senior care communities, but is the
highest during the first quarter of the month. And then
it will begin to kind of tail off into the
lowest part of the demand, which we're in right now,
in the summer months, and then it will start to
slowly kind of tick up, kind of increase toward the
end of the year, and then boom, it pops up
(09:48):
in January, February, March. And so it's a little bit
like a crooked cereal bowl, if you will, with the
left side being a little bit higher than the right side,
if you will. So that is a waiting list. That's
what it is. That's how it works, and that's how
your name will be treated. They'll call you over now,
they're not going to do this for the next ten years. Okay,
(10:11):
but they'll do this for the next six, twelve, eighteen months,
no worries at oh all right now, the Senior Care
Live Question of the Week. While on a waiting list,
if I decline and open space at my chosen senior
care community, I will be a moved to the bottom
of the list. B remain in the top position on
(10:32):
the list. See I'll be skipped over if they don't
like me or d It depends on the policy of
that particular senior care community. What do you think?
Speaker 1 (10:43):
You're listening to Senior Care Live on the Senior Care
Broadcasting Network. For more information, visit seniorcare live dot com.
We'll have more with Steve coming up next. A recent
Internet search for nursing homes in Kansas City provided thirty
(11:06):
two million results. It's daunting to think that there are
over three hundred and fifty senior care communities to choose
from in the Kansas City metro and on average, you'll
spend fifty to one hundred hours trying to find a
place for your loved one. If this sounds overwhelming, that's
because it is. I invite you to reach out to
Senior Care Consulting. We've been serving Family since two thousand
(11:28):
and two. With our premium service, we do most of
the work for you. You'll spend just a few hours of
your time finding the best place available, and you can
trust us to be objective because we don't receive reimbursement
from any provider we work for you. To learn more,
call Senior Care Consulting at nine three nine four five
(11:49):
twenty eight hundred nine nine four five twenty eight hundred,
a placement service with integrity at Seniorcare Consulting dot.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Com and welcome back. You're listening to Senior Care Live
on the Senior Care Broadcasting Network. For more information, go
to seniorcare Live dot com. All right, back to the
Senior Care Live question of the week. We'll see if
(12:18):
you're paying attention while on a waiting list. If I
decline an open space available at my chosen senior care community,
I will be a moved to the bottom of the list.
B remain at the top position on the list. C
(12:41):
I'll be skipped over if they don't like me or D.
It depends on the policy of that particular senior care community,
and the answer is.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
D.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
The answer is D. It's a little bit of a
trick question. It does depend on the policy of that
particular senior care community, but I can tell you the vast,
vast majority of senior care communities operate as a as
(13:16):
the answer B remain in the top position on the list,
and again, if you decline it, you stay at number one,
and they'll just again, they'll call two, three, four to
five to go down the list until someone takes the space.
And that's how the vast majority of senior care communities
work their waiting list. All right, So this is another
(13:39):
This is another area that can really haunt you. It
can bite you and you're not even aware of it.
And it is something called a care contract. So I'm
going to talk about what is a care contract when
you need one? And we're going to get into that
(14:00):
a little bit. So, what if you're living at home
and you need care, but you don't you're not ready
to move to senior care community and you don't want
to hire a home care company that would come in
and provide, you know, an outside person you know, to
come into your home and help you with care. Can
the question is, I guess, can you pay a family
(14:22):
member to provide your care? And of course the answer
is yes. But now we have some potential issues down
the road if you don't do this properly and if
you don't plan it outright right now today. So let's
(14:42):
say you hire your daughter to be your caregiver. This
is really common. It could be your son. But in
this example, let's say you hire your daughter to be
your caregiver, and then instead of paying a home care company,
you want to pay your daughter, and you're going to
pay her for her time and assent instance, because after all,
she quit her job to be your caregiver. And then
(15:08):
let's say, and this is a very common example or
situation if you will then later on down the road
you need more help than she can provide. And now
at that point you need to move to long term care.
You need a nursing home level of care. And oh,
(15:31):
by the way, you've outlived your assets, you've spent all
your money, and you're going to need to qualify for
Medicaid to help pay for your state in a nursing home.
What you would need to do right up front on
the front end is you need to have a care contract.
(15:58):
Trust me on this one, Oh, Steve, I'll never need
a nursing helplet you don't know that. You don't know that, Oh,
my daughter's fine, I mean she You don't know that
her husband could get transferred to another state, and all
of a sudden, you know, she and the family have
to move, and then you're you're stuck, and all of
a sudden, you just don't know. You don't know what
you don't know. So let's be prepared for all of
(16:19):
our possibilities. So, a care contract is essentially an employment
agreement between you and your daughter, and you would the
care contract would spell out the caregiving responsibilities that she
would be providing and the hours worked, and then the
(16:40):
dollar you know, at the cost per per hour, the
pay per what you're going to pay her per hour, okay,
and what you pay for per hour. You're not going
to pay her two hundred dollars an hour because you're
trying to siphon off a bunch of money to your daughter.
That's going most of that's going to be a gift.
(17:00):
You're going to want to pay her the average market
price that would be paid to a home care provider,
and that is what should be in that care contract. Now, again,
you're going to need a care contract because it documents
who provided your care, when they provided your care, what
(17:20):
kind of care and how much care, and the details
of the care provided that will be all documented there,
and how much you're paying for that, and when it
started and the different days worked, et cetera, et cetera.
You have everything documented, everything is outlined. All of that
would line up to the checks that you're writing or
the expenses that hit your bank account. Now you would
(17:44):
need one if you're hiring a family member to come
into your home and provide your care, and then you're
paying that family member, because again, what happens if you're
paying a family member to be your caregiver and you
(18:06):
don't have a care contract, and you know what, you
might be just fine. But what happens if you don't
have that care contract and again you need to qualify
from Medicaid to move to long term care in the
next five years. Well, I'm going to tell you what happens,
(18:27):
and it's bad. Your daughter quits her job, she comes
into your house and she's just helping her mom. She's
providing care, she's taking care of her mom like we
all would, or maybe most of us would, Okay, I would.
I think most reasonable people who love their parents they
would do that. So you go in, you're providing the care,
(18:52):
and then if you need to move again to a
nursing home a couple of years, two, three years down
the road, and now you're qualifying for Medicaid, and then
you have a lot of questionnaires and then it comes up, well,
what is this forty or fifty thousand dollars that you've
paid to and who is this lady that's my daughter?
(19:14):
What is all this money that you paid her? Well,
she quit her job and she came over and she
took care of me. Instead of paying a home care provider,
I paid my daughter. Oh okay, well that's great. Well
where's your care contract? Where is my what your care contract?
What is a care contract? So it's explained to you.
You're like, oh no, I didn't I didn't realize that
(19:35):
I had to have one of those. And they're like, okay,
well that's fine. So every without a care contract, this
is the key point. Without a care contract, every dollar
that you paid your daughter to provide your care is
considered a gift. And I know that's not right. I
know that's not right, but there's been so much abuse
(19:58):
of the Medicaid system that you have to document yourself
and you have to prove what you're doing here. Otherwise
you're assumed guilty until proven innocent, basically. Okay. So if
they consider all of that a gift and you need
to move into long term care, that's going to then
cause a Medicaid penalty, which is going to be very painful.
(20:23):
You won't be able to qualify for Medicaid right away
until you take care of this Medicaid penalty, right So,
do yourself a giant favor and get a care contract
in place immediately, and you'll thank me later for that one.
Coming up next, I'm going to talk about that Medicaid
penalty and exactly how it works.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
You're listening to Senior Care Live on the Senior Care
Broadcasting Network. Have a question, visit seniorcare live dot com.
Stick around. We'll have more with Steve coming up next.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Hello, this is Steve Keeker, President of Senior Care Consulting.
I'm so excited to announce that we are expanding nationwide
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(21:23):
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(21:46):
owning a senior care consulting franchise, call eight three three
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seven two two three seven two six or visit Senior
Care Consulting Welcome back. You're listening to Senior Care Live
(22:10):
on a senior care broadcasting network. For podcasts of the program,
visit seniorcare live dot com or wherever you get your podcasts,
and I'll tell you what this program is. All over
the place's nationally syndicated radio program. It's broadcast all around
the country, and then after the weekend broadcasts, then it's
(22:34):
turned into a podcast and then distributed to all of
the major platforms. So just do a quick search. You
could subscribe, you could go to seniorcare live dot com.
Whatever it is that works best for you, but check
it out. Share it with your friends. I do appreciate it,
all right. So we're talking about a little bit of
everything today, and I mentioned that if you don't have
(22:57):
a care contract pay a family member all this money
over this period of time, then in the next few
years you have to move to a nursing home qualify
for Medicaid. Without the care contract, you will be hit
with a large Medicaid penalty. If you have a care contract,
every single dollar paid to that family member is an
(23:19):
allowable expense because you documented it and you're paying them
the average market rate in your market. Okay, trust me
on this. And where do you get one of these things?
You need to contact a local elder law attorney so
that they can draft the contract per the Medicaid laws
(23:40):
and requirements of your state. And here in a little bit,
I'll tell you the best way to find a local
elder law attorney. Stay tuned for that, Okay. So the
Medicaid penalty divisor gets in a little bit in the
weeds here. So I'm broadcasting from Kansas City. I happen
to live on the Kansas side, but we we straddle
(24:02):
a state line, so we have Kansas rules in numbers.
And then Missouri rules in numbers, So the Medicaid penalty
divisor in Kansas is seven thousand, five hundred and thirty
six dollars. These are twenty twenty five numbers. In Missouri,
they have a daily divisor which is two hundred and
(24:24):
sixty four dollars and forty one cents. So for a
thirty day month in Missouri, it ends up being seven
nine hundred and thirty two dollars and thirty cents. Okay,
what does that mean? So now I'm just going to
use Kansas as an example for some really easy math.
(24:45):
I'm going to give you an example here of how
this thing works. So let's say you made a gift.
According to Medicaid, you made a gift that could be
giving someone money. Well, I just paid for my grandson's
first year in college. It was only twenty five thousand. Well,
that's a gift. I paid my daughter one hundred dollars
(25:09):
an hour to provide care when I should have been
paying twenty five. Well, seventy five dollars an hour is
a gift. Well, I didn't want my house anymore. It's
worth two hundred thousand, so I sold it to my
son for a dollar. That's one hundred and ninety nine thousand,
nine hundred ninety nine dollars gift. Right, So that's it's
(25:29):
a it's a you get the idea. So you made
a gift, and you made that gift in the last
five years, and again, for super easy math, that gift
totaled seventy five thousand, three hundred and sixty dollars. Just
gon do some super easy math. Now you need to
move into a nursing home and you apply for Medicaid
(25:52):
so that Medicaid could help with that monthly cost. So
Medicaid will do these to do a three year look back.
Now it's a five year look back because there's so
much abuse of this system. This is for people who
really need it and qualify for it, but unfortunately, like
(26:13):
everything else, you have people testing the limits and the
boundaries and trying to abuse things, and that makes it
harder on everyone else. Now it's a five year look back,
and this is to see if you made any gifts
or transferred assets which would be a gift that would
count as a Medicaid penalty. So you made a gift
(26:34):
of seventy five, three hundred and sixty dollars so they
don't want you to pay it back. Well, in order
to get Medicaid you have to write a check. Nope,
that money's gone. So what they'll do is they will
penalize you for this. And here's how it works. They'll
take the amount of the gift seventy five three h
(26:59):
six and divide it by the penalty divisor of your
state in this case in Kansas seven and thirty six dollars.
Simple math, the result is ten. That means that you
would otherwise qualify from Medicaid, but now we have a penalty,
(27:23):
and for the next ten months, Medicaid will not pay
for your care. And then at the end of that
ten months, the gift is considered and I'm putting up
my air quotes here. Cured, that gift has been cured.
It's been paid back essentially by the lack of paying
(27:45):
your for your for your care in a nursing home.
And then Medicaid will start paying for your care after that,
so month eleven moving forward. So you see how that works.
So you can give money away, you just have to
(28:08):
understand that in the next five years, if you need
to qualify for Medicaid to move to long term care
to receive the care that gift is going to result
in a penalty. Let's say you gave your money to
your son, and your son or whoever will pick on
(28:28):
your son, and he used a big chunk, you know,
one hundred and twenty thousand dollars to add on to
his house or buy a boat or whatever, and then
you come up on this penalty. You're like, son, I
need that money back. I don't have it anymore. I
added onto my house or it's floating out in the
(28:49):
lake or or whatever the case, or it's gone. Who's
going to pay for your care in my example, for
the next ten months? Who's going to do it? That's
a tough question, isn't it. And then there's even another
penalty that's somewhat hidden. So in Kansas, the penalty is
(29:17):
seven thousand, five hundred and thirty six dollars, but the
average cost to move into a nursing home is nine
thousand to ten thousand dollars a month. So in that
ten year penalty, their calculation is seventy five thousand, three
hundred and sixty dollars. But if your loved one moves
(29:40):
into a nursing home, that costs ten thousand dollars a month,
which is very easy to do. By the way, take
that times ten. You're actually paying one hundred thousand dollars,
when if you wouldn't have made the gift at all,
you would have paid that seventy five thousand, three hundred
and sixty dollars for their and they were to qualified.
(30:02):
So this is in the weeds quite a bit. I
will admit that hopefully I didn't lose anybody out there,
but it is really really important to understand that you
can't mess around with this stuff. Gosh, I've met with
thousands of people at this point over my career with
Senior care consulting, and once in a while I'll have
(30:26):
I'll have someone who's a little uh, a little spunky, Well, Steve,
what if that money just and they'll put up their
quotes disappears. I'm like, what do you mean? I know
what they mean, but I have them explain that, well,
what if that money just leaves the account and poof,
(30:48):
it shows up in a different account. I'm like, well,
it's steal their money. Well, but I would put it
in you know my name or you know my daughter's
name or something like that. And then they'll never find it. Well, yeah,
they will find it. And then they start to go
into all these exotic ways that they're going to hide
their assets so that they can have Medicaid pay for
the nursing home from mom and on. A couple of
(31:08):
guys that they're getting pretty exotic, and I said, sir,
how do you look in orange? Our producer just chuckled
he got lost it over there, but I said, how
do you look in orange? He kind of looks a
me funny. I'm like, how do you look in all orange?
(31:29):
Like from your head to your toe? I said, Because
if you get caught doing that, that's a federal that's
fraud at a federal level. That's a felony. You'll go
to prison. Don't do it. Do not mess around with
this stuff. And again, if you need help trying to
do asset protection properly and the right way, do it legally, right,
(31:54):
get your care contract taken care of in any other
elder law and that you may have, you will go
to NALA dot org and find a local elderlaw attorney
to help you do all of this stuff properly. Na
ELA dot org that stands for the National Academy of
elder law attorneys. You can do a search in your area,
(32:17):
find a list of local attorneys and do this stuff properly.
Don't get funny with this stuff. It's going to come
back to bite you. Okay. And coming up next, I'll
have another another exemption that I don't think anyone has
ever even heard of outside of my industry. Don't go,
I'll be back.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
You're listening to Senior Care Live on the Senior Care
Broadcasting Network. To contact Steve or a guest of his show,
this is Seniorcare Live dot com.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
We'll have more coming up. So you've been living intopend
at home, but now it's not working out. It's time
to begin searching for a senior care community. But with
hundreds of independent living, assisted living, long term care, and
(33:10):
memory care options, how are you supposed to determine the
best place for you? Hello? I'm Steve Keeker, and this
is exactly why I created my firm, Senior Care Consulting.
I help my own grandparents through this difficult process, so
I know how overwhelming this can be. Our business model
ensures credibility and objectivity. We work directly for you, and
(33:33):
we never receive reimbursement from any provider. We've helped hundreds
of family since two thousand and two, and we can
help you and your family as well. Call today for
a free consultation at nine one three nine four five
twenty eight hundred nine one three nine four five twenty
eight hundred, a placement service with integrity at Seniorcareconsulting dot com.
(34:06):
Welcome back. You're listening to Senior Care Live on the
Senior Care Broadcasting Network. Have a question, visit Seniorcare Live
dot com. All right, so we're calling this show a
little bit of everything. So I've talked about a waiting list,
as far as getting on a waiting list at a
senior care community, what it is, how it works, the
(34:26):
seasonal demand, and all of those sort of things around
surrounding a waiting list. Talked about care contract, what it is,
how it works, why you need one, why it's really
important to get that done in certain situations. And then
we talked about the Medicaid penalty divisor every So I
talked about Kansas and thirty six dollars. In Missouri, a
(34:47):
thirty day month would be seventy nine hundred and thirty
two dollars and thirty cents. And every state has a
different penalty divisor, but they're all going to be kind
of similar to that. Okay, so state's a little bit different,
but if you make a gift, there is a penalty
in every state. That's just how this medicaid program works.
(35:10):
Medicaid is a national benefit, but it's administered at the
state level, So each state could have some slight differences,
and most states do, but they're all similar, but each
state's a little bit different. Check with your local elder
law attorney to get that dialed in and make sure
(35:31):
that you're doing these things right. Let's talk about an
exemption that I don't think anyone knows about unless you're
an elder law attorney or your trustee senior care consultant
Steve Keeker. It's called the caretaker child exemption. Now, I
think a lot of people might qualify for this and
(35:54):
they literally don't even know it. If an adult child,
one of your adult children, moves in with the parent,
moves into the parents' home and provides twenty four hour care,
they literally they move in, they take care of them,
(36:15):
and they provide this care for whether they're being paid
or not, Okay, and they provide this care for at
least two years. Okay, So you have an adult child,
they move in with their parent or parents, they provide
twenty four hour care for at least two years. And
(36:36):
let me tell you that's easy to do. Right there,
I don't untold number of people have done this or
are doing this right now. Medicaid allows for the transfer
of the house to the care's what's called the caretaker
child without penalty. That is an allowable transfer of a
(37:02):
major asset. It's an exemption. It's a thank you for
saving Medicaid two years of care expenses. That's what it is.
Let me say that again. That got some attention. I
felt it all the way through the radio here. That
got some attention. If the adult child moves in with
(37:27):
the parent or parents, moves into their home, that doesn't
mean bringing your parent to your house. You move into
their home. You've provided twenty you move in. You you
are their caregiver. You've provided twenty four hour care for
at least two years. And they could be living in
(37:48):
a four hundred thousand I mean a nice house, or
it can be you know, a basic home. It can
you're moving into the house. Okay. Medicaid allows for the
transfer of these. You can sign that house over to
that caretaker child without any penalty. Well, Steve, they come
(38:10):
over once in a while, they've done that for several years.
Can I just give the house to them. Nope, that
would be a penalty, that would cause a giant penalty. Okay,
but if they move in with you, they've been providing
your care for at least two years. And trust me,
there are thousands and thousands of people who are doing
that right now today. They already qualify for this. And
(38:32):
then let's say that your parent at some point needs
to move to a nursing home and qualify for Medicaid,
super common situation, that house can be transferred to that
caretaker child without penalty. Again, don't just do this on
your own. Don't just draw up a care contract on
(38:54):
your own, because highly likely that care contract is not
going to meet the your state's met care laws and language. Right,
and don't mess around with trying to transfer assets or
make gifts trying to get around you know some of
these gifting laws and penalties. Do it properly. Reach out
(39:16):
to a local elder law attorney in your area. Go
to NYALA dot org, n A E la dot org
and you can do a search in your town, your city.
You know your city, you're throughout your state. You want
it more local than that. Put in your zip code
and it'll go out for you know, ten or twenty
(39:37):
miles and give you a list. And you want you
want an elder law attorney that's been in business for
a while and and does one hundred percent elder law work. Okay,
that at least that that's my opinion. Search your area,
have them help you do this. This will be some
of the best money that you've ever spent. This last week,
(40:00):
I went to a really cool networking event. There are
probably probably over two hundred people at this thing. It
was I had a great time, and I ran into
some old friends and old old colleagues, and in one
particular fella, he is an attorney and he has sent
(40:21):
a number of referrals number of his clients to Senior
Care Consulting over the years for placement assistants. And he
didn't even know it, but he gave me one of
the nicest compliments. He turned over around to his colleague
and he said, this is Steve Keeker, and he is
the pioneer in his business of helping families find the
right place in that search and selection process and that
(40:43):
placement process. He is the pioneer of that business. He's
a good man, and you need to get to know him.
I thought that was one that was such a nice compliment,
that made my day, that made my whole week. I'm
still I'm still glowing with that. It was just a really,
really nice, nice thing to say. I've had a lot
(41:03):
of people ask me about how I'm doing after my
brain surgery that I discussed a few weeks ago. We
are about six and a half weeks post op brain surgery,
and I am doing so well. All of the prayers
of a speedy and full recovery have been answered. And
(41:26):
it's been my recovery, I'll tell you, has been nothing
short of miraculous. I would say, just unbelievable. People cannot
believe I have done so well so soon after a
four hour long brain surgery, right, and praise God, I'm
telling you, all the prayers have been answered. I feel
(41:49):
very very blessed, very very fortunate. And then, last but
not least, let's not forget about all the dads out there.
This is Father's Day weekend and Darren's over here raising
the roof, so Happy Father's Day to all the dads
out there. Fire up that barbecue, io. Maybe you get
to take a nap or go out and watch your
(42:10):
favorite baseball team, the Kansas City Royals play, play a
game and hopefully your team wins. But just want to
say Happy Father's Day to all the great guys out there.
Take a rest today, you deserve it. Happy Father's Day
to you all right. I'm Steve Keeker and I wish
you grace and peace. May God bless you and your
(42:32):
family on this day and always join me next week
right here on Senior Care Live.
Speaker 3 (42:48):
Does your business serve the elderly and their caregivers in
our area? There are hundreds of thousands of people either
receiving or providing senior care and they need to know
about you. A unique and successful radio program called Senior
Care Live is the perfect opportunity to let your target
audience know about your amazing products and services. Senior Care
(43:08):
Live is currently adding a limited number of partner sponsors,
and if you're aligned with their mission, they want to
talk to you. They're interested in partnering with hospital organizations,
physician groups, home care providers. A state planning and older
law practices, financial advisors, insurance companies, real estate brokers, home
health agencies, and other providers serving the elderly and their caregivers.
(43:32):
Senior Care Live has a limited number of partner sponsor opportunities,
so call now at nine one three nine four five
twenty eight hundred nine one three nine four five twenty
eight hundred or visit seniorcare live dot com seniorcare live
dot com.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
Quid pro quo a Latin phrase that means an exchange
of goods or services where one transfer is contingent upon
the other. Here's an example. I'll recommend your senior care
community if you'll pay me a huge kickback from my referral.
The free referral services have a vested interest in you
choosing one of their business partners. That's how they make
(44:10):
their money. Does this paid recommendation sound objective or credible?
Of course not. I'm Steve Keeker with Senior Care Consulting.
I'm so proud to say we have never received a
single penny from any provider ever. We offer a placement
service with integrity for help finding the right senior care community,
without conflict of interest and without the quid pro quo
(44:34):
called nine one three nine four five twenty eight hundred
nine one three nine four five twenty eight hundred replacement
service with integrity at Seniorcare Consulting dot com
Are you caring for an aging loved one? Are you
a senior searching for answers? Welcome to Senior Care Live,
a program dedicated to you, providing information, education and resources
for seniors and their caregivers. And now America's Senior Care consultant,
Steve Keicker.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Hello, and welcome to Senior Care Live. I'm Steve Keeker.
You're Senior Care Consultant, and I really appreciate you tuning
in today and I have a little bit of everything
for you today on tap. And it's just I'm going
to be talking about several different things that I think
a lot of people just they just don't know, They
(00:46):
just don't know about this stuff. And if you've listened
for any time at all, you know the mission of
Senior Care Live is to provide information, education and resources
for seniors and their caregivers. And a a large number
of people working in the business of senior care also
listen to this program, and I'm very honored by that
(01:08):
as well. So let's jump into this and I'm just
going to touch on on literally a little a little
bit of everything today. So let's let's talk about right
out of the gate. Here a waiting list and we're
talking about a waiting list to get into a senior
care community. So, you know, last week I talked about
(01:29):
what to determine before beginning your search. But let's say
you're past that, you've chosen a place, but there's a
waiting list. And you know, when I'm working with my
clients at with Senior Care Consulting, we have this discussion
pretty much every time, and we talk about the timing
of when are you needing to move from your home
to a senior care community? Now? Sometimes guess what stuff
(01:53):
happens right, and so we have to move quickly and
we have we're reactive. We're reacting to a crisis or
a situation that may have been unexpected, but more often
than not, we see the need coming. And most of
my clients have listened to me preach about proactive, proactive, proactive,
(02:16):
don't wait until the last second, and they think that's
pretty good advice, and so they'll call me on those
a Steve, we're getting pretty close. We don't need a
place yet, but we can see this coming in the
next three months, six months, twelve months, whatever it might be.
And so we talk about waiting lists, and I get
the question all the time to most of these places
(02:37):
have a waiting list, and I would say, well, it
depends on the place. So what is a waiting list.
We have a couple of different types of waiting lists.
You have an internal waiting list, and then you have
an external waiting list. So let's say you are a community,
and let's say you're a continuing care retirement community. This
(02:58):
is a pretty common example where you have independent living,
assisted living, and long term care. If you're an independent
living and you can see the need for assisted living
coming sooner than later, then you would be placed on
an internal waiting list, meaning you would have first right
of refusal because you already live there. You're already a
(03:19):
part of the community. So what is an external waiting
list relative to a continuing care retirement community. All right,
so you're independent living, I'm going to move to assisted living.
You're on that n acc RC, you're on that internal
wait list. But they also have an external waiting list,
meaning maybe you don't live there yet. Maybe you're you're
(03:42):
waiting to move from home to the senior care community,
but you're coming straight into assisted living. Well, you would
not have that first ride of refusal if you will
on that assisted living apartment, you would, but if no
one internally speaks up for that apartment, or maybe that's
not needed at this time, then they will fill that
apartment with someone outside of their community from that external
(04:04):
waiting list. So hopefully, hopefully that makes sense. So what
if you're moving into just like a freestanding assisted living community. Okay,
it's all an external waitlist because it's all assisted living
and they don't have the different levels of care. So
the waiting list is you speak up, you raise your hand,
(04:26):
I want to be on the wait list. Some places
would charge a weightless deposit fee of maybe say five
hundred dollars, which is fully refundable if you should change
your mind, no worries at all, but it would secure
your place on the wait list. A lot of places
don't charge that. They just keep a waiting list. And
(04:47):
it is very common to encounter a waiting list during
certain times of the year where the peak demand is
a lot higher. Actually, and I'll talk about that in
just a second. And if you are one of the
better performing or one of the top performing senior care communities,
(05:08):
guess what, everyone wants to go there and receive their care.
So the demand, maybe for a particular place, is higher
than maybe another place, and so you raise your hand,
you put your name on the weight list. You may
or may not have a deposit for that weight list,
and again, it's pretty common to encounter that waiting list,
(05:28):
depending on the place and the time of year. So
how does a waiting list work? So let's say you're
down on the weight list, and then you're rising, and
you're rising, and a few months down the road, your
name climbs up to the top of the list, and
now you're first on the list. And then a week
(05:49):
or two later, they give you a call. Are you
ready to move yet? We have an apartment available, or
we have a bed available, we have a spot available,
space available for you. Nope, we're not quite ready to move.
So call me the next time you have a space available.
So the question is, are you going to get bumped
(06:10):
down to the bottom of the list. How dare you
turn down our opening? No, the vast majority of places
do not work that way, and your name stays at
number one. And then what they're going to do is
they're going to call number two, number three, number four,
number five until someone takes the space. And here's a
(06:32):
really common. Example, they'll call number two. Number two says, hey,
we couldn't wait any longer. We really needed to move.
We chose another place, so go ahead and take us
off the list. Okay, all right, thank you, thanks for
letting us know. They'll call number three. Number three says, hey, Steve,
my dad passed away kind of unexpectedly. We'll no longer
need your services. We're sorry to hear about that, and
(06:56):
we'll take your name off of the list, and then
they'll call the next person down the call number four.
Number four said, hey, you know, we needed to move.
We made some decisions and we moved mom to the Phoenix,
Arizona area where I've got a couple of brothers and
family members there, and Mom ended up moving there, So
(07:18):
we'll no longer need your services. Okay, sure, thanks thanks
for letting us know. And then number five says, we'll
take it. We will take it. We're ready to move.
So then number six moves up to number two. Number
seven moves up to number three, Number eight moves up
to number four. You see how this goes. But you
(07:38):
remain at number one, and then they'll just keep calling
you over and over and over again until the timing
is right. So I work with again with my firm
Senior Care consulting, with so many clients. I'm working with
clients today who are in this exact situation. We know
we're going to need to move. A couple of my
(08:00):
clients right now are wanting to move by the end
of the year and so, but we also have them
on waiting lists because the place, the places that they're
interested in, they do have a wait list, and what
if they call them here in the middle of the summer,
they're not ready to move yet, and we're going to
do the same thing. But what we've done, the point
(08:21):
is is that we've gotten out ahead of the need.
We're being proactive. We've done our market research, we've done
our homework, we've made some decisions, and we have our
name on a waiting list or two. And then we're
now we've already done that. We're past that, and that's
that's a there's a lot of peace of mind knowing
(08:41):
where your next home is. Now. We're just managing the
timing and managing the wait list and hopefully that makes sense.
So that is how a waiting list works, and you know,
that's how the majority of people or or communities work
a waiting list. There are only maybe a place or two,
(09:04):
maybe a couple places that actually do move you to
the bottom of the list. But that is not that
kind of drives me crazy. That is not the normal
standard industry way to work a waiting list. And then
I mentioned the seasonal demand. So in January, February, and March,
you have the highest level of demand. There's always a
(09:27):
demand for senior care senior care communities, but is the
highest during the first quarter of the month. And then
it will begin to kind of tail off into the
lowest part of the demand, which we're in right now,
in the summer months, and then it will start to
slowly kind of tick up, kind of increase toward the
end of the year, and then boom, it pops up
(09:48):
in January, February, March. And so it's a little bit
like a crooked cereal bowl, if you will, with the
left side being a little bit higher than the right side,
if you will. So that is a waiting list. That's
what it is. That's how it works, and that's how
your name will be treated. They'll call you over now,
they're not going to do this for the next ten years. Okay,
(10:11):
but they'll do this for the next six, twelve, eighteen months,
no worries at oh all right now, the Senior Care
Live Question of the Week. While on a waiting list,
if I decline and open space at my chosen senior
care community, I will be a moved to the bottom
of the list. B remain in the top position on
(10:32):
the list. See I'll be skipped over if they don't
like me or d It depends on the policy of
that particular senior care community. What do you think?
Speaker 1 (10:43):
You're listening to Senior Care Live on the Senior Care
Broadcasting Network. For more information, visit seniorcare live dot com.
We'll have more with Steve coming up next. A recent
Internet search for nursing homes in Kansas City provided thirty
(11:06):
two million results. It's daunting to think that there are
over three hundred and fifty senior care communities to choose
from in the Kansas City metro and on average, you'll
spend fifty to one hundred hours trying to find a
place for your loved one. If this sounds overwhelming, that's
because it is. I invite you to reach out to
Senior Care Consulting. We've been serving Family since two thousand
(11:28):
and two. With our premium service, we do most of
the work for you. You'll spend just a few hours of
your time finding the best place available, and you can
trust us to be objective because we don't receive reimbursement
from any provider we work for you. To learn more,
call Senior Care Consulting at nine three nine four five
(11:49):
twenty eight hundred nine nine four five twenty eight hundred,
a placement service with integrity at Seniorcare Consulting dot.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Com and welcome back. You're listening to Senior Care Live
on the Senior Care Broadcasting Network. For more information, go
to seniorcare Live dot com. All right, back to the
Senior Care Live question of the week. We'll see if
(12:18):
you're paying attention while on a waiting list. If I
decline an open space available at my chosen senior care community,
I will be a moved to the bottom of the list.
B remain at the top position on the list. C
(12:41):
I'll be skipped over if they don't like me or D.
It depends on the policy of that particular senior care community,
and the answer is.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
D.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
The answer is D. It's a little bit of a
trick question. It does depend on the policy of that
particular senior care community, but I can tell you the vast,
vast majority of senior care communities operate as a as
(13:16):
the answer B remain in the top position on the list,
and again, if you decline it, you stay at number one,
and they'll just again, they'll call two, three, four to
five to go down the list until someone takes the space.
And that's how the vast majority of senior care communities
work their waiting list. All right, So this is another
(13:39):
This is another area that can really haunt you. It
can bite you and you're not even aware of it.
And it is something called a care contract. So I'm
going to talk about what is a care contract when
you need one? And we're going to get into that
(14:00):
a little bit. So, what if you're living at home
and you need care, but you don't you're not ready
to move to senior care community and you don't want
to hire a home care company that would come in
and provide, you know, an outside person you know, to
come into your home and help you with care. Can
the question is, I guess, can you pay a family
(14:22):
member to provide your care? And of course the answer
is yes. But now we have some potential issues down
the road if you don't do this properly and if
you don't plan it outright right now today. So let's
(14:42):
say you hire your daughter to be your caregiver. This
is really common. It could be your son. But in
this example, let's say you hire your daughter to be
your caregiver, and then instead of paying a home care company,
you want to pay your daughter, and you're going to
pay her for her time and assent instance, because after all,
she quit her job to be your caregiver. And then
(15:08):
let's say, and this is a very common example or
situation if you will then later on down the road
you need more help than she can provide. And now
at that point you need to move to long term care.
You need a nursing home level of care. And oh,
(15:31):
by the way, you've outlived your assets, you've spent all
your money, and you're going to need to qualify for
Medicaid to help pay for your state in a nursing home.
What you would need to do right up front on
the front end is you need to have a care contract.
(15:58):
Trust me on this one, Oh, Steve, I'll never need
a nursing helplet you don't know that. You don't know that, Oh,
my daughter's fine, I mean she You don't know that
her husband could get transferred to another state, and all
of a sudden, you know, she and the family have
to move, and then you're you're stuck, and all of
a sudden, you just don't know. You don't know what
you don't know. So let's be prepared for all of
(16:19):
our possibilities. So, a care contract is essentially an employment
agreement between you and your daughter, and you would the
care contract would spell out the caregiving responsibilities that she
would be providing and the hours worked, and then the
(16:40):
dollar you know, at the cost per per hour, the
pay per what you're going to pay her per hour, okay,
and what you pay for per hour. You're not going
to pay her two hundred dollars an hour because you're
trying to siphon off a bunch of money to your daughter.
That's going most of that's going to be a gift.
(17:00):
You're going to want to pay her the average market
price that would be paid to a home care provider,
and that is what should be in that care contract. Now, again,
you're going to need a care contract because it documents
who provided your care, when they provided your care, what
(17:20):
kind of care and how much care, and the details
of the care provided that will be all documented there,
and how much you're paying for that, and when it
started and the different days worked, et cetera, et cetera.
You have everything documented, everything is outlined. All of that
would line up to the checks that you're writing or
the expenses that hit your bank account. Now you would
(17:44):
need one if you're hiring a family member to come
into your home and provide your care, and then you're
paying that family member, because again, what happens if you're
paying a family member to be your caregiver and you
(18:06):
don't have a care contract, and you know what, you
might be just fine. But what happens if you don't
have that care contract and again you need to qualify
from Medicaid to move to long term care in the
next five years. Well, I'm going to tell you what happens,
(18:27):
and it's bad. Your daughter quits her job, she comes
into your house and she's just helping her mom. She's
providing care, she's taking care of her mom like we
all would, or maybe most of us would, Okay, I would.
I think most reasonable people who love their parents they
would do that. So you go in, you're providing the care,
(18:52):
and then if you need to move again to a
nursing home a couple of years, two, three years down
the road, and now you're qualifying for Medicaid, and then
you have a lot of questionnaires and then it comes up, well,
what is this forty or fifty thousand dollars that you've
paid to and who is this lady that's my daughter?
(19:14):
What is all this money that you paid her? Well,
she quit her job and she came over and she
took care of me. Instead of paying a home care provider,
I paid my daughter. Oh okay, well that's great. Well
where's your care contract? Where is my what your care contract?
What is a care contract? So it's explained to you.
You're like, oh no, I didn't I didn't realize that
(19:35):
I had to have one of those. And they're like, okay,
well that's fine. So every without a care contract, this
is the key point. Without a care contract, every dollar
that you paid your daughter to provide your care is
considered a gift. And I know that's not right. I
know that's not right, but there's been so much abuse
(19:58):
of the Medicaid system that you have to document yourself
and you have to prove what you're doing here. Otherwise
you're assumed guilty until proven innocent, basically. Okay. So if
they consider all of that a gift and you need
to move into long term care, that's going to then
cause a Medicaid penalty, which is going to be very painful.
(20:23):
You won't be able to qualify for Medicaid right away
until you take care of this Medicaid penalty, right So,
do yourself a giant favor and get a care contract
in place immediately, and you'll thank me later for that one.
Coming up next, I'm going to talk about that Medicaid
penalty and exactly how it works.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
You're listening to Senior Care Live on the Senior Care
Broadcasting Network. Have a question, visit seniorcare live dot com.
Stick around. We'll have more with Steve coming up next.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Hello, this is Steve Keeker, President of Senior Care Consulting.
I'm so excited to announce that we are expanding nationwide
by awarding Senior Care Consulting franchises. We help our clients
find the right senior care community, including assistant living, memory care,
long term care, and continuing care retirement communities. We are
(21:23):
not another run of the mill free referral service. We're
very different. We offer replacement service with integrity. Owning a
senior care consulting franchise offers many benefits. Our market is
not affected by the economy. Operate from your home office
and enjoy work life balance. Pour your passion into a
business you can be proud of. For more information about
(21:46):
owning a senior care consulting franchise, call eight three three
seven two two three seven two six eight three three
seven two two three seven two six or visit Senior
Care Consulting Welcome back. You're listening to Senior Care Live
(22:10):
on a senior care broadcasting network. For podcasts of the program,
visit seniorcare live dot com or wherever you get your podcasts,
and I'll tell you what this program is. All over
the place's nationally syndicated radio program. It's broadcast all around
the country, and then after the weekend broadcasts, then it's
(22:34):
turned into a podcast and then distributed to all of
the major platforms. So just do a quick search. You
could subscribe, you could go to seniorcare live dot com.
Whatever it is that works best for you, but check
it out. Share it with your friends. I do appreciate it,
all right. So we're talking about a little bit of
everything today, and I mentioned that if you don't have
(22:57):
a care contract pay a family member all this money
over this period of time, then in the next few
years you have to move to a nursing home qualify
for Medicaid. Without the care contract, you will be hit
with a large Medicaid penalty. If you have a care contract,
every single dollar paid to that family member is an
(23:19):
allowable expense because you documented it and you're paying them
the average market rate in your market. Okay, trust me
on this. And where do you get one of these things?
You need to contact a local elder law attorney so
that they can draft the contract per the Medicaid laws
(23:40):
and requirements of your state. And here in a little bit,
I'll tell you the best way to find a local
elder law attorney. Stay tuned for that, Okay. So the
Medicaid penalty divisor gets in a little bit in the
weeds here. So I'm broadcasting from Kansas City. I happen
to live on the Kansas side, but we we straddle
(24:02):
a state line, so we have Kansas rules in numbers.
And then Missouri rules in numbers, So the Medicaid penalty
divisor in Kansas is seven thousand, five hundred and thirty
six dollars. These are twenty twenty five numbers. In Missouri,
they have a daily divisor which is two hundred and
(24:24):
sixty four dollars and forty one cents. So for a
thirty day month in Missouri, it ends up being seven
nine hundred and thirty two dollars and thirty cents. Okay,
what does that mean? So now I'm just going to
use Kansas as an example for some really easy math.
(24:45):
I'm going to give you an example here of how
this thing works. So let's say you made a gift.
According to Medicaid, you made a gift that could be
giving someone money. Well, I just paid for my grandson's
first year in college. It was only twenty five thousand. Well,
that's a gift. I paid my daughter one hundred dollars
(25:09):
an hour to provide care when I should have been
paying twenty five. Well, seventy five dollars an hour is
a gift. Well, I didn't want my house anymore. It's
worth two hundred thousand, so I sold it to my
son for a dollar. That's one hundred and ninety nine thousand,
nine hundred ninety nine dollars gift. Right, So that's it's
(25:29):
a it's a you get the idea. So you made
a gift, and you made that gift in the last
five years, and again, for super easy math, that gift
totaled seventy five thousand, three hundred and sixty dollars. Just
gon do some super easy math. Now you need to
move into a nursing home and you apply for Medicaid
(25:52):
so that Medicaid could help with that monthly cost. So
Medicaid will do these to do a three year look back.
Now it's a five year look back because there's so
much abuse of this system. This is for people who
really need it and qualify for it, but unfortunately, like
(26:13):
everything else, you have people testing the limits and the
boundaries and trying to abuse things, and that makes it
harder on everyone else. Now it's a five year look back,
and this is to see if you made any gifts
or transferred assets which would be a gift that would
count as a Medicaid penalty. So you made a gift
(26:34):
of seventy five, three hundred and sixty dollars so they
don't want you to pay it back. Well, in order
to get Medicaid you have to write a check. Nope,
that money's gone. So what they'll do is they will
penalize you for this. And here's how it works. They'll
take the amount of the gift seventy five three h
(26:59):
six and divide it by the penalty divisor of your
state in this case in Kansas seven and thirty six dollars.
Simple math, the result is ten. That means that you
would otherwise qualify from Medicaid, but now we have a penalty,
(27:23):
and for the next ten months, Medicaid will not pay
for your care. And then at the end of that
ten months, the gift is considered and I'm putting up
my air quotes here. Cured, that gift has been cured.
It's been paid back essentially by the lack of paying
(27:45):
your for your for your care in a nursing home.
And then Medicaid will start paying for your care after that,
so month eleven moving forward. So you see how that works.
So you can give money away, you just have to
(28:08):
understand that in the next five years, if you need
to qualify for Medicaid to move to long term care
to receive the care that gift is going to result
in a penalty. Let's say you gave your money to
your son, and your son or whoever will pick on
(28:28):
your son, and he used a big chunk, you know,
one hundred and twenty thousand dollars to add on to
his house or buy a boat or whatever, and then
you come up on this penalty. You're like, son, I
need that money back. I don't have it anymore. I
added onto my house or it's floating out in the
(28:49):
lake or or whatever the case, or it's gone. Who's
going to pay for your care in my example, for
the next ten months? Who's going to do it? That's
a tough question, isn't it. And then there's even another
penalty that's somewhat hidden. So in Kansas, the penalty is
(29:17):
seven thousand, five hundred and thirty six dollars, but the
average cost to move into a nursing home is nine
thousand to ten thousand dollars a month. So in that
ten year penalty, their calculation is seventy five thousand, three
hundred and sixty dollars. But if your loved one moves
(29:40):
into a nursing home, that costs ten thousand dollars a month,
which is very easy to do. By the way, take
that times ten. You're actually paying one hundred thousand dollars,
when if you wouldn't have made the gift at all,
you would have paid that seventy five thousand, three hundred
and sixty dollars for their and they were to qualified.
(30:02):
So this is in the weeds quite a bit. I
will admit that hopefully I didn't lose anybody out there,
but it is really really important to understand that you
can't mess around with this stuff. Gosh, I've met with
thousands of people at this point over my career with
Senior care consulting, and once in a while I'll have
(30:26):
I'll have someone who's a little uh, a little spunky, Well, Steve,
what if that money just and they'll put up their
quotes disappears. I'm like, what do you mean? I know
what they mean, but I have them explain that, well,
what if that money just leaves the account and poof,
(30:48):
it shows up in a different account. I'm like, well,
it's steal their money. Well, but I would put it
in you know my name or you know my daughter's
name or something like that. And then they'll never find it. Well, yeah,
they will find it. And then they start to go
into all these exotic ways that they're going to hide
their assets so that they can have Medicaid pay for
the nursing home from mom and on. A couple of
(31:08):
guys that they're getting pretty exotic, and I said, sir,
how do you look in orange? Our producer just chuckled
he got lost it over there, but I said, how
do you look in orange? He kind of looks a
me funny. I'm like, how do you look in all orange?
(31:29):
Like from your head to your toe? I said, Because
if you get caught doing that, that's a federal that's
fraud at a federal level. That's a felony. You'll go
to prison. Don't do it. Do not mess around with
this stuff. And again, if you need help trying to
do asset protection properly and the right way, do it legally, right,
(31:54):
get your care contract taken care of in any other
elder law and that you may have, you will go
to NALA dot org and find a local elderlaw attorney
to help you do all of this stuff properly. Na
ELA dot org that stands for the National Academy of
elder law attorneys. You can do a search in your area,
(32:17):
find a list of local attorneys and do this stuff properly.
Don't get funny with this stuff. It's going to come
back to bite you. Okay. And coming up next, I'll
have another another exemption that I don't think anyone has
ever even heard of outside of my industry. Don't go,
I'll be back.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
You're listening to Senior Care Live on the Senior Care
Broadcasting Network. To contact Steve or a guest of his show,
this is Seniorcare Live dot com.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
We'll have more coming up. So you've been living intopend
at home, but now it's not working out. It's time
to begin searching for a senior care community. But with
hundreds of independent living, assisted living, long term care, and
(33:10):
memory care options, how are you supposed to determine the
best place for you? Hello? I'm Steve Keeker, and this
is exactly why I created my firm, Senior Care Consulting.
I help my own grandparents through this difficult process, so
I know how overwhelming this can be. Our business model
ensures credibility and objectivity. We work directly for you, and
(33:33):
we never receive reimbursement from any provider. We've helped hundreds
of family since two thousand and two, and we can
help you and your family as well. Call today for
a free consultation at nine one three nine four five
twenty eight hundred nine one three nine four five twenty
eight hundred, a placement service with integrity at Seniorcareconsulting dot com.
(34:06):
Welcome back. You're listening to Senior Care Live on the
Senior Care Broadcasting Network. Have a question, visit Seniorcare Live
dot com. All right, so we're calling this show a
little bit of everything. So I've talked about a waiting list,
as far as getting on a waiting list at a
senior care community, what it is, how it works, the
(34:26):
seasonal demand, and all of those sort of things around
surrounding a waiting list. Talked about care contract, what it is,
how it works, why you need one, why it's really
important to get that done in certain situations. And then
we talked about the Medicaid penalty divisor every So I
talked about Kansas and thirty six dollars. In Missouri, a
(34:47):
thirty day month would be seventy nine hundred and thirty
two dollars and thirty cents. And every state has a
different penalty divisor, but they're all going to be kind
of similar to that. Okay, so state's a little bit different,
but if you make a gift, there is a penalty
in every state. That's just how this medicaid program works.
(35:10):
Medicaid is a national benefit, but it's administered at the
state level, So each state could have some slight differences,
and most states do, but they're all similar, but each
state's a little bit different. Check with your local elder
law attorney to get that dialed in and make sure
(35:31):
that you're doing these things right. Let's talk about an
exemption that I don't think anyone knows about unless you're
an elder law attorney or your trustee senior care consultant
Steve Keeker. It's called the caretaker child exemption. Now, I
think a lot of people might qualify for this and
(35:54):
they literally don't even know it. If an adult child,
one of your adult children, moves in with the parent,
moves into the parents' home and provides twenty four hour care,
they literally they move in, they take care of them,
(36:15):
and they provide this care for whether they're being paid
or not, Okay, and they provide this care for at
least two years. Okay, So you have an adult child,
they move in with their parent or parents, they provide
twenty four hour care for at least two years. And
(36:36):
let me tell you that's easy to do. Right there,
I don't untold number of people have done this or
are doing this right now. Medicaid allows for the transfer
of the house to the care's what's called the caretaker
child without penalty. That is an allowable transfer of a
(37:02):
major asset. It's an exemption. It's a thank you for
saving Medicaid two years of care expenses. That's what it is.
Let me say that again. That got some attention. I
felt it all the way through the radio here. That
got some attention. If the adult child moves in with
(37:27):
the parent or parents, moves into their home, that doesn't
mean bringing your parent to your house. You move into
their home. You've provided twenty you move in. You you
are their caregiver. You've provided twenty four hour care for
at least two years. And they could be living in
(37:48):
a four hundred thousand I mean a nice house, or
it can be you know, a basic home. It can
you're moving into the house. Okay. Medicaid allows for the
transfer of these. You can sign that house over to
that caretaker child without any penalty. Well, Steve, they come
(38:10):
over once in a while, they've done that for several years.
Can I just give the house to them. Nope, that
would be a penalty, that would cause a giant penalty. Okay,
but if they move in with you, they've been providing
your care for at least two years. And trust me,
there are thousands and thousands of people who are doing
that right now today. They already qualify for this. And
(38:32):
then let's say that your parent at some point needs
to move to a nursing home and qualify for Medicaid,
super common situation, that house can be transferred to that
caretaker child without penalty. Again, don't just do this on
your own. Don't just draw up a care contract on
(38:54):
your own, because highly likely that care contract is not
going to meet the your state's met care laws and language. Right,
and don't mess around with trying to transfer assets or
make gifts trying to get around you know some of
these gifting laws and penalties. Do it properly. Reach out
(39:16):
to a local elder law attorney in your area. Go
to NYALA dot org, n A E la dot org
and you can do a search in your town, your city.
You know your city, you're throughout your state. You want
it more local than that. Put in your zip code
and it'll go out for you know, ten or twenty
(39:37):
miles and give you a list. And you want you
want an elder law attorney that's been in business for
a while and and does one hundred percent elder law work. Okay,
that at least that that's my opinion. Search your area,
have them help you do this. This will be some
of the best money that you've ever spent. This last week,
(40:00):
I went to a really cool networking event. There are
probably probably over two hundred people at this thing. It
was I had a great time, and I ran into
some old friends and old old colleagues, and in one
particular fella, he is an attorney and he has sent
(40:21):
a number of referrals number of his clients to Senior
Care Consulting over the years for placement assistants. And he
didn't even know it, but he gave me one of
the nicest compliments. He turned over around to his colleague
and he said, this is Steve Keeker, and he is
the pioneer in his business of helping families find the
right place in that search and selection process and that
(40:43):
placement process. He is the pioneer of that business. He's
a good man, and you need to get to know him.
I thought that was one that was such a nice compliment,
that made my day, that made my whole week. I'm
still I'm still glowing with that. It was just a really,
really nice, nice thing to say. I've had a lot
(41:03):
of people ask me about how I'm doing after my
brain surgery that I discussed a few weeks ago. We
are about six and a half weeks post op brain surgery,
and I am doing so well. All of the prayers
of a speedy and full recovery have been answered. And
(41:26):
it's been my recovery, I'll tell you, has been nothing
short of miraculous. I would say, just unbelievable. People cannot
believe I have done so well so soon after a
four hour long brain surgery, right, and praise God, I'm
telling you, all the prayers have been answered. I feel
(41:49):
very very blessed, very very fortunate. And then, last but
not least, let's not forget about all the dads out there.
This is Father's Day weekend and Darren's over here raising
the roof, so Happy Father's Day to all the dads
out there. Fire up that barbecue, io. Maybe you get
to take a nap or go out and watch your
(42:10):
favorite baseball team, the Kansas City Royals play, play a
game and hopefully your team wins. But just want to
say Happy Father's Day to all the great guys out there.
Take a rest today, you deserve it. Happy Father's Day
to you all right. I'm Steve Keeker and I wish
you grace and peace. May God bless you and your
(42:32):
family on this day and always join me next week
right here on Senior Care Live.
Speaker 3 (42:48):
Does your business serve the elderly and their caregivers in
our area? There are hundreds of thousands of people either
receiving or providing senior care and they need to know
about you. A unique and successful radio program called Senior
Care Live is the perfect opportunity to let your target
audience know about your amazing products and services. Senior Care
(43:08):
Live is currently adding a limited number of partner sponsors,
and if you're aligned with their mission, they want to
talk to you. They're interested in partnering with hospital organizations,
physician groups, home care providers. A state planning and older
law practices, financial advisors, insurance companies, real estate brokers, home
health agencies, and other providers serving the elderly and their caregivers.
(43:32):
Senior Care Live has a limited number of partner sponsor opportunities,
so call now at nine one three nine four five
twenty eight hundred nine one three nine four five twenty
eight hundred or visit seniorcare live dot com seniorcare live
dot com.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
Quid pro quo a Latin phrase that means an exchange
of goods or services where one transfer is contingent upon
the other. Here's an example. I'll recommend your senior care
community if you'll pay me a huge kickback from my referral.
The free referral services have a vested interest in you
choosing one of their business partners. That's how they make
(44:10):
their money. Does this paid recommendation sound objective or credible?
Of course not. I'm Steve Keeker with Senior Care Consulting.
I'm so proud to say we have never received a
single penny from any provider ever. We offer a placement
service with integrity for help finding the right senior care community,
without conflict of interest and without the quid pro quo
(44:34):
called nine one three nine four five twenty eight hundred
nine one three nine four five twenty eight hundred replacement
service with integrity at Seniorcare Consulting dot com
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