August 25, 2025 • 46 mins
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So my boy, David Shabbaz, what's up, man?
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Hey, what's going on? Jeral good to be on here
with you.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
He's the the author of Black Gold. What's up? What's
up about that?
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Well, that was actually just a that was actually just
one of the headlines. The actual title of the book
is Pro Wrestling's Black World Champions write.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Down Pro Wrestling Black World Champions, Got You, Got You?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Got You?
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Yeah, like I saw, I'm saying, it's such a people
like to you know, get into a gain to them,
like this specific topic about black So yeah, I thought
(00:51):
it's very cool. I saw your press release for the book,
so yeah, not that right.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
This is the third edition. Yes, yes, the original came
out in two thousand and nine, and it was a
small publication. As you can probably imagine, there were very
few Black World Champions at that time, and so it's
it's it's it's grown over the years, which is good
for our people.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Okay, okay, yeah, like how many? How many? Like on
top of your head, do you think Black World Champions
were back in two nine? You had because this before this,
before Mark Henry Watch, you know, I guess it become
the ECW championed count that one W championship.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
That was kind of a like an asterisk because it
wasn't the true e c W.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
I mean, that's that's it's debatable. It's depatabule.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
At that time, it wasn't. It wasn't. Well, I understand
what you're saying, and that's why it was kind of
included because but it wasn't the independent e c W
federation at that time. It was owned by w w E.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Yeah, but I mean, so would it count if let's
let's say it's that e c W. Let's say it
was the w c W championship that Mark Honey one, right, well,
it's still count or.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
You're talking about under w W E. Yah, under Night War.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Yeah, if Mark any won that championship, it.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Still would have it still would have carried what we
considered an asterisk. I mean, but yes, he was listed
in that in that publication.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Okay, okay, all right, cool, cool, cool. So so we'll
get more to that. So just real quick, tell you
about yourself or who you are.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Uh, David Shabaz, I'm a uh scholar, I'm a college professor.
I'm a scholar of sports and sports communication. So I'm
not you know, some people say I'm a historian. I'm
not really a historian. I'm a scholar. They're there are
people out there who know much more uh, statistics and
(03:09):
all about you know, professional wrestling than I do. I'm
not particularly a fan in the true sense of the word,
because fan is short for fanatic. Yes, not a fanatic.
I don't dress up in costumes. I don't watch every
episode of professional wrestling. I've been watching professional wrestling throughout
(03:31):
my life, but I don't watch the Independence. I don't
watch every episode of NXT. I don't watch that. Yeah,
that's what that's the difference with me. That's why I say, well,
I'm not a fan per se, because I don't watch
just to watch. If it doesn't entertain me, if it
doesn't have somebody that I like, I'm gonna flip the
(03:53):
channel and watch something else.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Okay, Okay, that's crazy. I was gonna actally later on,
like you watch the local in the pen and stuff.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Man.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
I got well real quick. I got a text for
my boy Russ saw to him the mand Space podcast.
He told me something about what you talked me about.
It's a pc W show in Canada, South Carolina. And
then he has his on his eyes, very cooped potential.
But yeah, okay, so I guess we won't get too
(04:22):
independent stuff cool. What's it called? Real quick? But you
said you said you're two things. You said that you're
professor at the college. We call it just that.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Uh well, it's a it's a midwestern university. I'd rather
not say the name of the school.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Okay, okay, And and uh you're a live from Kentucky, right, yes,
I bet bet. I just want to get that clear
right now, all right, huh.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Clues, but I just don't want to say the name
of the university, right.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Got you? Got you? I respect that, respect that, okay, okay?
But uh so, so you said that you're not a
historic You're not You're not uh was not a history
(05:18):
you're Scott yes, mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Well, this, this particular publication goes back to my brother.
My brother Julian was the one who was this publication
and and those of you maybe familiar with him. He
(06:02):
was basically the scholar historian of black professional wrestlers. He
wrote Black Stars of Professional Wrestling back in nineteen ninety nine.
This was before there was all of these podcasts and
all of this focusing on black professional wrestlers. He was
the one that was doing that, and this was his
(06:23):
publication originally, and when he passed in twenty twenty, I
updated his book back in twenty twenty two, which was
the second edition, and the industry of course has grown
(06:44):
and has recognized the talents and the marketability, I should say,
of more black wrestlers. And so this one is the
third edition and it's really more a mind which has
uh some scholarship in it as well.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Got you, got you?
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Got you?
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Okay, okay, what got you into wrestling in the first place?
Like how not not a fan, but what got you
interrestling in the first place? And not a fanatic? But
like what got you interrestling?
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Well, like I said, I've watched what watch professional wrestling
my entire life. My family grew up watching professional wrestling,
So that's something that's always been a part of me.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
So pretty much by by relation, right by by through
your family. I mean that's kind of how I got
thro rustling too, Like my sisters like low key force
it on me. But yeah, well I got two older sisters,
so yeah, and so yeah that's how I got into rustling. Okay, okay,
uh so let's just to start with your brother. He
(07:54):
started this and he took up from there. So why
is it so important the catalog? Not only well, I'll
say you, why is it so important to the catalog,
especially black world champions.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Well, because there's so few. And the whole thing about
being a champion itself, and a black champion, it goes
back to it's a reflection of all of the struggles
that black people have had to go through, especially we
talk about African Americans in this particular, in this society,
(08:39):
we have always had the struggle and always had to
fight harder and always had to prove ourselves. Because professional wrestling,
which is different from amateur or Olympic wrestling. If you're
pure wrestling, will it's not just about your or talent
(09:02):
because it's not competition based. People are looking at other
aspects like your character and your presentation and your marketability.
Can you put butts in the seats? You know, there's
so many different factors that they look at before they
put the belt on you, because there was so many
(09:23):
people before that they considered but never got the actual belt.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Mm hmmm. And what yeah, what it means to be
the world champion?
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Right?
Speaker 1 (09:34):
It means like especially because you know, like no, like
the modern wrestling is no scripted, right, what it means
to be the world champion, It means that that there
that that that the company as a whole. They want
you to be the face of it. They want you
(09:54):
they want to market the company after you know what
I'm saying, that's what it is.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
So, uh you are you are the face of the company.
The frantic.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
They they are very selective about anybody who they put own,
but definitely when it comes to being uh you know,
somebody black, it's it's all. It's very tough.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Mm hmm okay, okay, so real quick right before a
gain more into that. Uh so, so what other like
books of projects have worked for written?
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Oh? Well, this is the fourth. I wrote Public Enemy
number one back in which was actually it started off
as my master's thesis, which was looking at public Enemy
at the time. This was like in the early nineteen nineties.
(10:58):
And uh, Dolomite the Story of Rudy Ray Moore. My
brother and I wrote that publication back around nineteen ninety six,
and that was the very first book and probably the
only book that has been written on Rudy Ray Moore.
(11:19):
So at the time. We got a lot of publicity
from that one in twenty nineteen. It was a very
slow start in the beginning because everybody, everybody knew Dolomite,
and they knew the especially him from the hip hop community.
Everybody in rap was sampling him, so everybody knew about him,
(11:43):
and people culturally in the black culture know about him,
but it was kind of like taboo to talk about
him because he had not transitioned at that time, like
Red Fox, Richard Pryor, and even Eddie Murphy himself, so
(12:08):
you know, him still being he had not made these
g rated television shows and other things where people saw
him in a different light. So it came, you know,
nobody really wanted to touch it and deal with it
until Eddie put out the twenty nineteen mainstream movie on Netflix. Okay,
now he's got this legitimacy and everybody's talking about it now,
(12:32):
and we being the only ones who had wrote the
book on him. CNN USA Today, other major media outlets
had contacted us for interviews because they wanted to know
if the story was real, and yes it was, that
was a true biography.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Okay, okay, real quick, right, what can we find can
we find your own writing?
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Everything is on my website, uh, davids dot com. Uh,
certainly through webs Amazon and all of those places.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
All right, so just type of your name right on Amazon,
So David L. Shabban's D A B I D of
course L A B A z z type of Amazon
what I'm saying? Or just go to w W David L.
Shabaz dot com.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Right, you know, Uh, let's correct you though, brother, it's
pronounced your bars. But because it's recorded, when people keep
hearing it wrong, I have to correct it.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
No harm, got you got well in my defense, right,
jazz is still pronounced jazz, but.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
It's not an American. So that's what is that?
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Was that your what was that your birth name? What
do you take?
Speaker 2 (13:55):
What like a like a that's that's my name?
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Okay? Okay, like is it like tything, muslim thing? Or
just got you got you? Got you? Got you? Okay?
All right, Salama like them my brother got you got
you okay? Uh, but everybody, well quick write this quick
plug touch my boy David on Amazon. Also going to
(14:24):
David dot com. Besides your books, wells Creed, besides your writing,
well S Creed fin on the website.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Well, that website is just about books. So that's that's it.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Okay, okay, uh, But but but you have anything, you
have any other parties coming up in their future?
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Well, right now, my hands are full with this one.
And like I said, I'm a I'm a full time
college professor, so I don't really have you know, a
lot of time. I'm just on the circuit right now
with this book.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Okay, okay, so we just find it real quick, forgive me.
Everybody has a lot of material to them through. But
you were talking about, especially back in the day, Well
we were talking about, especially back in the day, what
it would have meant to be, like you know what
like a black world champion or a champion in general, right,
but especially a black world champion. That means like the
(15:20):
companies will make you, will make you the face of
their company and so like, especially for you know, African Americans, right,
Like you know, it's very challenging to even get that,
to get that far right. So, like I'm trying to
find the email you sent the press release, because you
do a credit like you know, people like I don't
(15:41):
want I don't want to misquote you find the actual
information that you uh that I've read. Yeah yeah, yeah,
you right here, right here, yeah you I'm trying to
find oh yeah yeah, because you right here your credit
(16:01):
people like Buddy Rogers, the Rock and Roll Express who
supported the rights of black wrestlers. So I guess I
guess what I'm trying to get to is like, so
like like who you like? Who you are credit for?
No helping you know, the rise and successful You know
African Americans come up in wrestling.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Well, I mean that's and those are through different periods.
Nature Boy, Buddy Rogers, he had several matches with Sailor R. Thomas,
one of the Four Runners. He held a world title
in the World Wrestling Alliance and the w w A,
(16:48):
which had broken away from the n w A. At
the time, the n w A was the you know,
the big major corporation, and they had broken away and
had their own what they call the world title, but
it wasn't really truly a world title. But Nature Boy, Buddy,
(17:10):
why why not?
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Why not?
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Because when you talk world, you're talking about you. You're
traveling and defending the title throughout the world, not just
the United States.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Okay, I mean, well, fair point, but okay, yeah, yeah,
you were saying.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Though Buddy Rogers had matches with Sailor or Thomas, several matches.
At the time, white wrestlers were, especially in the South,
were banned from wrestling against blacks. So that's why you
(17:51):
credit somebody like Buddy Rogers because he wasn't afraid to
go into the ring. Uh, he was taking the risk himself.
But it was making big money.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
But if he was, if he was banned, how was
he able to wrestle in anyways? It was a banned.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
They didn't wrestle in the South, Okay, Okay, Yeah, that's
that's the Deep South where only black wrestlers could could
wrestle against each other. But other about the country, like Wood,
he strolled one of the very first people wrestling. They
were out in California and other places, just not the
(18:30):
Deep South.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Got you, got you, got you okay, okay. And this
would have been like the like mid like ur mid nineties.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Right, yeah, we're talking nineteen forties, nineteen fifties.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Okay, yeah, so wild so even I mean, yeah, I
know we have so brights still back in the sixties seventies,
but to think that, you know, there's still like element
of racism even like in the nineteen hundreds in the
wrestling industry is still kind of that's kind of crazy.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
So yeah, okay, that's what makes that's what makes the
publication so significant.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Yeah, okay, okay, who else you have here? Uh? You
have here the rock and Roll Express? How did they
support the rising and stuff like that?
Speaker 2 (19:15):
For black wrestlers, The Rock and Roll Express were really
significant in helping the gangsters. Have you heard of the Gangster?
I have, Yes, I have in Smoky Mountain Wrestling. That's
where they were really significant in helping them out.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Mm hmmm. The only reason why because I'm a huge
Fansion Cornett and so yes, so so yeah, shoutut to
he real quick. Okay, but yeah, but going going about
that a little bit more, how did so so? Yeah,
So you're saying the Rock and Roll Express worked a
lot with the with the gangsters.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Yeah, they helped really get over And I mean if
people you know, all of that is detailed in the book,
how they really helped Nu Jack and Mustafa or get
over and.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Learn rest in peace. New Jackie died like the last
a year or two ago.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Yeah, people have heard of recently the Nation of Domination.
That's an offshoot of the Gangsters.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Oh really, mm hmmm, I did not see it that way.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Nothing. That's that's they copied everybody. The people copied other groups.
And Delo Brown was once a member of the Gangsters.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Okay, okay, okay, I mean you know more than me.
I'm like, we're like, I'm from a different generation. So yeah,
well that's fine.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
That's that's that's that's the purpose of the book. All
of that is detailed in that.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
And I appreciate it. I appreci your school and me
I appreciate this, Like, don't teach me.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Some sa So yeah, we each other.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Real quick, give us a give us, give us like
a like a preview of the book, you know, like
what we expect, you know what mission it's different to
to learn stuff like that. Look like like a little
snap pre of the book.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Well you've got you've got several of the black wrestlers
who won the title. And there have been a lot
these days, and this is the singles titles. There are
a lot more black females who have the title. And
(21:48):
one thing that's really different about this particular addition, because
they are more females in there as well. The black
tag teams are also also profile in this particular edition,
going back to the Soul Patrol, which is Tony Atlas
and Rocky Johnson the rocks Father.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Okay, okay, so what could before I get in to
listen to a question? Another question myself? Real quick pop quiz.
Do you know how many Black World Champions there are
in history?
Speaker 2 (22:28):
How many Black World Champions there are in history?
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Well that's that's that's in the book.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
Oh okay, So I might read the book to find out.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
We're Yeah, I can't give away everything.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Brother, you got the ol G. You got it all right?
Bet so? So so okay, bet bet bet okay, bet so.
I guess that's a nice secret to listen to a
listen of questions. So for those who are from the
show right now, I have a hotline nine one seven
(23:00):
two eight three ninety five six. You can text little
voicemail or calling live to give your comments or questions.
I have quite a few right here. I even have
some even now as recording. People still texting me stuff
like that. So they want to ask you this. One
person asks, do you follow the current wrestling product if
(23:21):
Soler promotions?
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Well, I watch a E W and w.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
W E okay, and I assume that's pretty much it, right,
No New Japan, no chiple A. That's just those two writers.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Well only the ones that are that are showcased on
those particular shows, the ones that they have partnerships because
New Japan has partnership with A.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
Yeah, okay, so you want to watch it by extension
if it's like you know, okay, okay, oh it's crazy.
I didn't, I keep it getting he's holding that. Speaking
of black champions, what'st of the name of the NX champion?
That was the name again? I forgot, I lost, I
(24:09):
want oh no, no, I was saying, I forgot. It's
actually a NXT so on tonight heat wave. I think
it's tonight going on right now. Iron enough, he's a
black champ. He's a black champion. I forgot. His name
is African guy with his name over fed me? Yes? Yes,
so south of them watching that, I'm done with you
(24:33):
watch that check real quick. Also had let's have the
ABU show on today, which I didn't see either, but
I get a chance of looking at that look kind
of good. Okay, okay, uh, this person acts, hold on this,
this person acts, what about M M A or other
(24:55):
or other combat sports.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Uh do you like? I guess yeah, uh not really
really not really Again, I'm in I'm an old school guy,
and things really have to I have to like the
person that has to really be attractive to me. I
hadn't watched it since Ken Shamrock and Dan to b
(25:21):
Severn and those guys. Yeah, no offense guys, long time.
But I'm saying, and if you and if you don't
have the charisma that those guys had, I'm not watching
dang man. I'm just not a fan. Like fans watch
everything and everybody that's not me.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
I hear you, I hear you, I hear you. This
One person asks, w W E or a.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
W uh w w E has a better overall product,
but ae W is is gaining some ground. I like
some of the things that ae W does, but a
E W still still is kind of in the minor
(26:15):
leagues in my opinion.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Mm hmm okay, okay, okay, bring good question. This person asks,
how do you feel about the current wrestling product?
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Well, it's uh, it has some bright spots. I mean
I certainly, I certainly follow it, I certainly keep up
with it. I think a E W is bringing a
lot of competition, and that's what w w E really needed.
They needed that competition. I just want I want ae
(26:55):
W to raise their profile a little bit more or
they seem to be kind of taking on the slot
that w c W had to a certain extent, and
I think there's a lot more character to them that
they can uh bring out without necessarily copying the w
(27:19):
w E per se. But I do kind of think
you you need to follow what the big juggernaut is doing.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Okay, Okay, I'll get I'll ask more questions from the
audience later on. But I've been thinking about something you
said earlier, which has to be thinking. So I'm trying
to see how to phrase this. So I guess so
you said earlier. You said earlier, Right, it has to
(27:49):
be depended across the world to be considered a world champion,
a world championship. Right. I was gonna mentioned like Sasha Bangs,
but I lost track of how many she has right now,
something will like mentioned her. But I'll give I'll give
(28:09):
you an example. This example represents pretty much like my
entire point that I'm trying to act the NXT Championship, right,
that's this example of my overall point. Do you consider
that world championship? No, because it's not dependent across the world.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Right, No, n w w E does not consider that
a world championship. N NEXT is still that developmental territory.
It just happens to be televised, but that's the developmental territory.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
But okay, but see now it's televised, right, so it
has a world ride reach, so it doesn't count. No, okay,
all right, okay, w w.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
E does not consider that a world titled.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
I mean w w E like they consider stuff. They say,
what is it, what isn't? Based on what's convenient at
that time, so you know, yeah, but okay, that's.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
A good point by that.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
So so so so sometimes the NXT Championship counts, right,
Sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes sometimes it's developmental, sometimes it's.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
Third brand, you know, when does it count?
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Well? So okay, so you know how, I'll give you example, right,
uh uh Well recently, right, Charlotte Flair was and Lex
were listening. We're listening their accomplishments, right, and she brought
up that she's a certain how many time champions and
she counted the nc NT championships, right, But at the
(29:58):
same time, Right, you have Sammy's a former NXT champion,
right and up until up until La Russelmena thirty which
one was it thirty thirty nine, he never won a
championship on the main roster. And they've been saying that, oh,
he's been champion, but I saw much champion in twenty fourteen,
so he's sold. I'm saying he counts.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
When counts, I think I know what you're saying.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Counts.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
It does count when it comes to the titles that
you have when you talk about being a triple crown
champion or a Grand Slam champion, but not a though
it's not a world title. Because when you talk about
who's a triple crown, if they won the Intercontinental Championship,
a Tag Team Championship, and the world title, then that's
(30:48):
a triple crown. And the NXT was one of those,
then that can be a Grand Slam because they won
four and they'll count the NNT as a championship, but
it's not a world champion.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
But they've been to other countries, they've been next they
they've been like, they've been to Canada, they've been to Japan,
they've been there. No, we still know they've been to Austria,
they've been, they've been around the world.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
That what you're saying. But it's not a world title.
It's a championship, but it's not a world title.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
Okay, I know, I know you don't really follow in these, right,
but no I do, especially right here in New York City. Right,
you have One Division Pro, you have LPW and all
kinds of places, and real quick shout to Jared Diaz.
He's the current one Division Pro champion. And myself right
and the people on One Division Pro, we we not
(31:43):
only try to market him as a world champion, but
we demonstrate that by having him go to Mexico and
go to Europe and all the world. And so would
you count and so this is the truth? Think we
because I work I keep seeing we because I worked
with them for a little bit. So we would send
(32:06):
we would send jaredy not only over the country, but
we sent to We sent them to Europe, and we
sent them to Japan, and we send them to them
whoever else around the world. Right, would you count that
as a world champion because we're sending all the world
to defend it. Would you count championship?
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Well, it's it's not up to me. It's what the
promotion considers a world title. Okay, okay, that's that's not
up to Okay.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Well all right, right, Well I consider the One Division
Pro Championship World Championship. I also consider the LPW Championship
world Championship because only King, the former champion, was depending
in Japan an overplaced, so shouting him for that, Okay, okay.
So it's like so based on we're just saying, right,
(32:57):
it's not only like where they defend it or where
they will feature it, but also if the company treats
it like a world championship.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
I don't understand your point. I'm just what you're saying,
but I don't.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
No, I'm asking I'm asking you like the world I'm
I'm asking you so so we can agree on so
according to you what you're saying, right, it depends on
the cow the champion, and I'm not promotion how treats
it right, how they treat it, That's that's what you're saying.
Mm hmm. Would I be wrong? When I be like wrong?
(33:37):
Is saying that? Okay? It's uh, let's say the intercon champion, right,
the inter icy champion right, Well, I thought that's the
bad example. That's a bad example. So of course you
(34:00):
the criteria is that the company has to technowledge it
as the world championship. Mm hmm okay, and they also
have and also they have to defend it across the world.
That's what you're saying too, right, yes, so those are
two criterias, okay for to be that you consider for
the world chap to be a world championship, got you? Okay,
(34:22):
all right, so I guess okay, so cool, cool, cool.
I guess that's just trying to clear up. Let's give
us some mister questions. I got some from my boy
Chris Fleming shot at him regular to call him. He
asks here at the hotline, what or how has the
wrestling business changed from the old to the new?
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Cool? You guys have some have some nice broad questions there,
because that's that's wide open. It's it's I wish it
was a little more specific there, but I mean it's
it's it's changed. And uh, I mean how far back
(35:09):
in the day from the territories. Certainly television change wrestling itself.
When you look at the popularity of the sport, it's
it's it's it's got a major following now. I mean
(35:30):
we're talking we're talking billions of dollars. W W is
like eight billion dollars in a W is like like
two billions something like that. I mean, so it's, uh,
it's it's huge these days.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
Okay, Okay, I guess this last question. I could ask,
and by ways Closten, he acts or he or she
don't know who this is, but this person acts. What
the differences or what transitions do you foresee with today's talent?
Speaker 2 (36:10):
What ask that again? What transitions do I see with
today's talent?
Speaker 1 (36:16):
What differences or what transitions do you foresee with today's talent?
Speaker 2 (36:26):
Okay, that's that's kind of that's kind of predictive. It
will put me into more of a wizard's kind of position.
I mean, I don't I can't really foresee where the
talent is going. I like educated guests, old school talent.
(36:47):
I would like for them to be I would like
for the new people to be more like the old
school talent. And by that that's what I mean by
I don't just watch the show just to watch it.
People could back in the day, they could cut promos
and you enjoyed it, not even wrestling in the ring.
(37:08):
They knew how to build a feud with another person
promoted in the ring against each other. And that's what
I'm seeing. I want people to understand the Rock was
an old school artist. He knew that gift of the gap.
He knew how to talk and how to build a
(37:29):
feud before he got into the fight with the person.
That's what I want to see. I can't say I
foresee that happening. I would love for that to happen.
I would love for those the new talent to study
the older talent and be able to draw people in
just by what you're saying. That is something that Dusty
(37:52):
Rhodes was good about. That's something that Air was good about.
You know, they could talk and that's what made the difference.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Okay, okay, all right, I think that's everything we got
for now. Real quick, plugs your website w w w
W dot w w W dot David dot com. Also
just search also just search David la on uh what's
(38:22):
it called? Uh? What was it? Amazon?
Speaker 2 (38:27):
Yeah? Bookstores?
Speaker 1 (38:28):
Yeah, right, well, real quick, like with all the bookstores
we found that like virtually or like or like in real.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Life worldwide, every bookstore.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
Books, so Borns and Nobles, uh borders what every book
still everybody? Okay? And online and in real life right yes, yes, okay, okay,
bet but social media.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
All of that is still run through my website, but
essentially at David Elschabas.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Okay, uh so Twitter, Facebook, Instagram LinkedIn for him just
in few okay, everybody, real quick check out, not just
well check it out, like like literally check it out,
check out. Get it from the store, however how you
get it from? Right? What's in the book? What's in
(39:26):
the book? Tell us tell you tell us Black Gold
Discovering Pro Wrestling's Black World Champions, Volume three or through
the dish has.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
To say what what's in the book?
Speaker 1 (39:39):
No, no, I'm saying, plug the book, Come on the book.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Yeah. I mean, if you want to learn about the
history of the black professional wrestling champions who were world champions,
it's all detailed in this book. The female chamampions are there,
the tag team champions are there. That's what especially in
this one unique. I also have a for the scholars
(40:11):
out there. There's a rhetorical analysis that starts off with
WrestleMania nineteen, the match between Triple H and Booker T
and that particular promo was very controversial. Oh yeah, I
think that that kind of sets the stage for what
we're talking about and gives people an idea of what
(40:35):
the black people have to go through to be a champion.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
So, so yeah, you cover people like bear Cat right,
both Brazil, Ron Simmons, Mercedes, Monet Blanca, Bellaire, Jay Cargill.
Who else you got? Naomi? He just gave it up.
This snout recently quest lass her for her pregnancy. But
(41:00):
real quick, right, you said that you that you only
follow like w W A W Right. So so Mercedes especially, right,
she has like multiple titles concurrently, right, So the New Japan, well,
well I don't really know which ones they are, so dang,
(41:21):
I gott look them up because all right, so do
you count? So do you count? Not? I'm not talking
about what she has right now, I'm talking saying in general,
So do you count, for example, the New Japan Championship,
World Championship? Do you count like the Triple A Championship?
You count like atheists, not w W or A W.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
Yes, New Japan is definitely a world time.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
Okay, okay, okay, okay, Yeah, But the thing is right.
You don't really follow. You don't really follow anything other
than those A W W W, so like you could
be missing. I mean, I'm not saying that. I don't
know if they do or don't because I'm not super young,
not as deep in the history as you are, but
like seeing as we follow.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
When you when you say follow, I can follow them online.
Now if you're talking about do I watch those shows? No,
because I don't have access to watch those shows on TV,
so I can't follow them like that when you say follow.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
But you still got you still got to be still
do your still you do your due diligence, you still
do your research, right, Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, cool, cool, cool, Okay.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
What they don't show in your area?
Speaker 1 (42:38):
I mean, well, well as far as New Japan goals, right,
New Japan World, it's like ten dollars a month.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
That's for fans.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
Okay, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha, got you, got you, got you?
Got you? Do you did you ever watch? Did you
ever like like watch or follow TEENA? Yes, I'm just curious. Okay, okay, okay,
I haven't watched ten years because they stopped showing it
on my cable provider, they stop carrying on the right verizon.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
That's what I'm saying, brother, I was saying earlier. I mean,
you can't really watch what they don't what they don't show.
They did have a YouTube, a presence on YouTube at
one time, but that's.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
I gotta get the Somebody tell me how to watch
t X look good stuff, the whole NXT partnership. I'm
how to watch how to watch TEENA? Does like get
the app or something?
Speaker 2 (43:42):
Now? No?
Speaker 1 (43:43):
Yeah, okay, I think that's everything. And last words we
signed off.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
Again. I mean, if you want to know about the
history of the Black Professional Rats, there's Champions World Champions,
go out and get the book. It tells you everything
about the singles champions as well as the tag team champions.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
Okay, okay, I get that book with quicks up playing,
get that book. I'm I'm I'm gonna read it. I
definitely want interested. I like, I like to read personally.
I played like a little about history and a lot
of stuff. So I'm getting the book too. That's Black
Gold Discovered Pro Wrestlings Black Champions, third Edition. It's everywhere, man,
(44:32):
It's on Amazon. It's like it's like in little bookstores
like Barnes and Nobles wherever you can go. Well, David L.
Shabaz all right, checked out take out the website David
Olshabas dot com. Thank you for the questions. I got
a lot of them this time, so I appreciate you
all listening Highlight now on seven five six W dot com.
(44:55):
I think we're out of here by way right for
if you were curious, right the reason why I'm not
my dad, I'm on my bed because I have.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
A leg cramps.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
I'm trying to stretch my leg. I'll be alright. That's
why I don't want to think I was like being
like disrespectful whatever.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
Yeah, you didn't get a herd in the ring? Did you?
Speaker 1 (45:13):
Oh? Nah? Nah. It's funny too because I was just
talking about that before before he came on. I was
on the phone with a friend of mine and I
was telling how I'm trying to get I'm trying to
get mentically cleared, not not to rustle, but to be
like a a what do you call it? Be featured
on a on a promotion look look promotion in New
(45:36):
York City. So yeah, ah, so they say too bad
if you if you know more about me? What's going
on for me? Social media? You already know what it is.
It's not about me, thought my boy David Shabaz Instagram, uh, Twitter, Facebook,
LinkedIn and it was just website again, David boss dot com.
(45:56):
And get his book. Stop playing, get his book. It's
good stuff, good stuff, a lot of a lot of now,
a lot of knowledge could be dropped on you. So
tat out real quick. All right man, I'm gonna go
take some leave, get something to eat and just relax
and uh yeah man, I'm holler do good stuff. Right, yeah,
(46:17):
come on again some time.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
Love to love too. Thank you your your listeners as well.
Speaker 1 (46:24):
Yes, all right man, all right see
So my boy, David Shabbaz, what's up, man?
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Hey, what's going on? Jeral good to be on here
with you.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
He's the the author of Black Gold. What's up? What's
up about that?
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Well, that was actually just a that was actually just
one of the headlines. The actual title of the book
is Pro Wrestling's Black World Champions write.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Down Pro Wrestling Black World Champions, Got You, Got You?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Got You?
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Yeah, like I saw, I'm saying, it's such a people
like to you know, get into a gain to them,
like this specific topic about black So yeah, I thought
(00:51):
it's very cool. I saw your press release for the book,
so yeah, not that right.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
This is the third edition. Yes, yes, the original came
out in two thousand and nine, and it was a
small publication. As you can probably imagine, there were very
few Black World Champions at that time, and so it's
it's it's it's grown over the years, which is good
for our people.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Okay, okay, yeah, like how many? How many? Like on
top of your head, do you think Black World Champions
were back in two nine? You had because this before this,
before Mark Henry Watch, you know, I guess it become
the ECW championed count that one W championship.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
That was kind of a like an asterisk because it
wasn't the true e c W.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
I mean, that's that's it's debatable. It's depatabule.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
At that time, it wasn't. It wasn't. Well, I understand
what you're saying, and that's why it was kind of
included because but it wasn't the independent e c W
federation at that time. It was owned by w w E.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Yeah, but I mean, so would it count if let's
let's say it's that e c W. Let's say it
was the w c W championship that Mark Honey one, right, well,
it's still count or.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
You're talking about under w W E. Yah, under Night War.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Yeah, if Mark any won that championship, it.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Still would have it still would have carried what we
considered an asterisk. I mean, but yes, he was listed
in that in that publication.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Okay, okay, all right, cool, cool, cool. So so we'll
get more to that. So just real quick, tell you
about yourself or who you are.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Uh, David Shabaz, I'm a uh scholar, I'm a college professor.
I'm a scholar of sports and sports communication. So I'm
not you know, some people say I'm a historian. I'm
not really a historian. I'm a scholar. They're there are
people out there who know much more uh, statistics and
(03:09):
all about you know, professional wrestling than I do. I'm
not particularly a fan in the true sense of the word,
because fan is short for fanatic. Yes, not a fanatic.
I don't dress up in costumes. I don't watch every
episode of professional wrestling. I've been watching professional wrestling throughout
(03:31):
my life, but I don't watch the Independence. I don't
watch every episode of NXT. I don't watch that. Yeah,
that's what that's the difference with me. That's why I say, well,
I'm not a fan per se, because I don't watch
just to watch. If it doesn't entertain me, if it
doesn't have somebody that I like, I'm gonna flip the
(03:53):
channel and watch something else.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Okay, Okay, that's crazy. I was gonna actally later on,
like you watch the local in the pen and stuff.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Man.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
I got well real quick. I got a text for
my boy Russ saw to him the mand Space podcast.
He told me something about what you talked me about.
It's a pc W show in Canada, South Carolina. And
then he has his on his eyes, very cooped potential.
But yeah, okay, so I guess we won't get too
(04:22):
independent stuff cool. What's it called? Real quick? But you
said you said you're two things. You said that you're
professor at the college. We call it just that.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Uh well, it's a it's a midwestern university. I'd rather
not say the name of the school.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Okay, okay, And and uh you're a live from Kentucky, right, yes,
I bet bet. I just want to get that clear
right now, all right, huh.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Clues, but I just don't want to say the name
of the university, right.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Got you? Got you? I respect that, respect that, okay, okay?
But uh so, so you said that you're not a
historic You're not You're not uh was not a history
(05:18):
you're Scott yes, mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Well, this, this particular publication goes back to my brother.
My brother Julian was the one who was this publication
and and those of you maybe familiar with him. He
(06:02):
was basically the scholar historian of black professional wrestlers. He
wrote Black Stars of Professional Wrestling back in nineteen ninety nine.
This was before there was all of these podcasts and
all of this focusing on black professional wrestlers. He was
the one that was doing that, and this was his
(06:23):
publication originally, and when he passed in twenty twenty, I
updated his book back in twenty twenty two, which was
the second edition, and the industry of course has grown
(06:44):
and has recognized the talents and the marketability, I should say,
of more black wrestlers. And so this one is the
third edition and it's really more a mind which has
uh some scholarship in it as well.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Got you, got you?
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Got you?
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Okay, okay, what got you into wrestling in the first place?
Like how not not a fan, but what got you
interrestling in the first place? And not a fanatic? But
like what got you interrestling?
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Well, like I said, I've watched what watch professional wrestling
my entire life. My family grew up watching professional wrestling,
So that's something that's always been a part of me.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
So pretty much by by relation, right by by through
your family. I mean that's kind of how I got
thro rustling too, Like my sisters like low key force
it on me. But yeah, well I got two older sisters,
so yeah, and so yeah that's how I got into rustling. Okay, okay,
uh so let's just to start with your brother. He
(07:54):
started this and he took up from there. So why
is it so important the catalog? Not only well, I'll
say you, why is it so important to the catalog,
especially black world champions.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Well, because there's so few. And the whole thing about
being a champion itself, and a black champion, it goes
back to it's a reflection of all of the struggles
that black people have had to go through, especially we
talk about African Americans in this particular, in this society,
(08:39):
we have always had the struggle and always had to
fight harder and always had to prove ourselves. Because professional wrestling,
which is different from amateur or Olympic wrestling. If you're
pure wrestling, will it's not just about your or talent
(09:02):
because it's not competition based. People are looking at other
aspects like your character and your presentation and your marketability.
Can you put butts in the seats? You know, there's
so many different factors that they look at before they
put the belt on you, because there was so many
(09:23):
people before that they considered but never got the actual belt.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Mm hmmm. And what yeah, what it means to be
the world champion?
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Right?
Speaker 1 (09:34):
It means like especially because you know, like no, like
the modern wrestling is no scripted, right, what it means
to be the world champion, It means that that there
that that that the company as a whole. They want
you to be the face of it. They want you
(09:54):
they want to market the company after you know what
I'm saying, that's what it is.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
So, uh you are you are the face of the company.
The frantic.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
They they are very selective about anybody who they put own,
but definitely when it comes to being uh you know,
somebody black, it's it's all. It's very tough.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Mm hmm okay, okay, so real quick right before a
gain more into that. Uh so, so what other like
books of projects have worked for written?
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Oh? Well, this is the fourth. I wrote Public Enemy
number one back in which was actually it started off
as my master's thesis, which was looking at public Enemy
at the time. This was like in the early nineteen nineties.
(10:58):
And uh, Dolomite the Story of Rudy Ray Moore. My
brother and I wrote that publication back around nineteen ninety six,
and that was the very first book and probably the
only book that has been written on Rudy Ray Moore.
(11:19):
So at the time. We got a lot of publicity
from that one in twenty nineteen. It was a very
slow start in the beginning because everybody, everybody knew Dolomite,
and they knew the especially him from the hip hop community.
Everybody in rap was sampling him, so everybody knew about him,
(11:43):
and people culturally in the black culture know about him,
but it was kind of like taboo to talk about
him because he had not transitioned at that time, like
Red Fox, Richard Pryor, and even Eddie Murphy himself, so
(12:08):
you know, him still being he had not made these
g rated television shows and other things where people saw
him in a different light. So it came, you know,
nobody really wanted to touch it and deal with it
until Eddie put out the twenty nineteen mainstream movie on Netflix. Okay,
now he's got this legitimacy and everybody's talking about it now,
(12:32):
and we being the only ones who had wrote the
book on him. CNN USA Today, other major media outlets
had contacted us for interviews because they wanted to know
if the story was real, and yes it was, that
was a true biography.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Okay, okay, real quick, right, what can we find can
we find your own writing?
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Everything is on my website, uh, davids dot com. Uh,
certainly through webs Amazon and all of those places.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
All right, so just type of your name right on Amazon,
So David L. Shabban's D A B I D of
course L A B A z z type of Amazon
what I'm saying? Or just go to w W David L.
Shabaz dot com.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Right, you know, Uh, let's correct you though, brother, it's
pronounced your bars. But because it's recorded, when people keep
hearing it wrong, I have to correct it.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
No harm, got you got well in my defense, right,
jazz is still pronounced jazz, but.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
It's not an American. So that's what is that?
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Was that your what was that your birth name? What
do you take?
Speaker 2 (13:55):
What like a like a that's that's my name?
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Okay? Okay, like is it like tything, muslim thing? Or
just got you got you? Got you? Got you? Okay?
All right, Salama like them my brother got you got
you okay? Uh, but everybody, well quick write this quick
plug touch my boy David on Amazon. Also going to
(14:24):
David dot com. Besides your books, wells Creed, besides your writing,
well S Creed fin on the website.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Well, that website is just about books. So that's that's it.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Okay, okay, uh, But but but you have anything, you
have any other parties coming up in their future?
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Well, right now, my hands are full with this one.
And like I said, I'm a I'm a full time
college professor, so I don't really have you know, a
lot of time. I'm just on the circuit right now
with this book.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Okay, okay, so we just find it real quick, forgive me.
Everybody has a lot of material to them through. But
you were talking about, especially back in the day, Well
we were talking about, especially back in the day, what
it would have meant to be, like you know what
like a black world champion or a champion in general, right,
but especially a black world champion. That means like the
(15:20):
companies will make you, will make you the face of
their company and so like, especially for you know, African Americans, right,
Like you know, it's very challenging to even get that,
to get that far right. So, like I'm trying to
find the email you sent the press release, because you
do a credit like you know, people like I don't
(15:41):
want I don't want to misquote you find the actual
information that you uh that I've read. Yeah yeah, yeah,
you right here, right here, yeah you I'm trying to
find oh yeah yeah, because you right here your credit
(16:01):
people like Buddy Rogers, the Rock and Roll Express who
supported the rights of black wrestlers. So I guess I
guess what I'm trying to get to is like, so
like like who you like? Who you are credit for?
No helping you know, the rise and successful You know
African Americans come up in wrestling.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Well, I mean that's and those are through different periods.
Nature Boy, Buddy Rogers, he had several matches with Sailor R. Thomas,
one of the Four Runners. He held a world title
in the World Wrestling Alliance and the w w A,
(16:48):
which had broken away from the n w A. At
the time, the n w A was the you know,
the big major corporation, and they had broken away and
had their own what they call the world title, but
it wasn't really truly a world title. But Nature Boy, Buddy,
(17:10):
why why not?
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Why not?
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Because when you talk world, you're talking about you. You're
traveling and defending the title throughout the world, not just
the United States.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Okay, I mean, well, fair point, but okay, yeah, yeah,
you were saying.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Though Buddy Rogers had matches with Sailor or Thomas, several matches.
At the time, white wrestlers were, especially in the South,
were banned from wrestling against blacks. So that's why you
(17:51):
credit somebody like Buddy Rogers because he wasn't afraid to
go into the ring. Uh, he was taking the risk himself.
But it was making big money.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
But if he was, if he was banned, how was
he able to wrestle in anyways? It was a banned.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
They didn't wrestle in the South, Okay, Okay, Yeah, that's
that's the Deep South where only black wrestlers could could
wrestle against each other. But other about the country, like Wood,
he strolled one of the very first people wrestling. They
were out in California and other places, just not the
(18:30):
Deep South.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Got you, got you, got you okay, okay. And this
would have been like the like mid like ur mid nineties.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Right, yeah, we're talking nineteen forties, nineteen fifties.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Okay, yeah, so wild so even I mean, yeah, I
know we have so brights still back in the sixties seventies,
but to think that, you know, there's still like element
of racism even like in the nineteen hundreds in the
wrestling industry is still kind of that's kind of crazy.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
So yeah, okay, that's what makes that's what makes the
publication so significant.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Yeah, okay, okay, who else you have here? Uh? You
have here the rock and Roll Express? How did they
support the rising and stuff like that?
Speaker 2 (19:15):
For black wrestlers, The Rock and Roll Express were really
significant in helping the gangsters. Have you heard of the Gangster?
I have, Yes, I have in Smoky Mountain Wrestling. That's
where they were really significant in helping them out.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Mm hmmm. The only reason why because I'm a huge
Fansion Cornett and so yes, so so yeah, shoutut to
he real quick. Okay, but yeah, but going going about
that a little bit more, how did so so? Yeah,
So you're saying the Rock and Roll Express worked a
lot with the with the gangsters.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Yeah, they helped really get over And I mean if
people you know, all of that is detailed in the book,
how they really helped Nu Jack and Mustafa or get
over and.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Learn rest in peace. New Jackie died like the last
a year or two ago.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Yeah, people have heard of recently the Nation of Domination.
That's an offshoot of the Gangsters.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Oh really, mm hmmm, I did not see it that way.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Nothing. That's that's they copied everybody. The people copied other groups.
And Delo Brown was once a member of the Gangsters.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Okay, okay, okay, I mean you know more than me.
I'm like, we're like, I'm from a different generation. So yeah,
well that's fine.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
That's that's that's that's the purpose of the book. All
of that is detailed in that.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
And I appreciate it. I appreci your school and me
I appreciate this, Like, don't teach me.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Some sa So yeah, we each other.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Real quick, give us a give us, give us like
a like a preview of the book, you know, like
what we expect, you know what mission it's different to
to learn stuff like that. Look like like a little
snap pre of the book.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Well you've got you've got several of the black wrestlers
who won the title. And there have been a lot
these days, and this is the singles titles. There are
a lot more black females who have the title. And
(21:48):
one thing that's really different about this particular addition, because
they are more females in there as well. The black
tag teams are also also profile in this particular edition,
going back to the Soul Patrol, which is Tony Atlas
and Rocky Johnson the rocks Father.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Okay, okay, so what could before I get in to
listen to a question? Another question myself? Real quick pop quiz.
Do you know how many Black World Champions there are
in history?
Speaker 2 (22:28):
How many Black World Champions there are in history?
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Well that's that's that's in the book.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
Oh okay, So I might read the book to find out.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
We're Yeah, I can't give away everything.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Brother, you got the ol G. You got it all right?
Bet so? So so okay, bet bet bet okay, bet so.
I guess that's a nice secret to listen to a
listen of questions. So for those who are from the
show right now, I have a hotline nine one seven
(23:00):
two eight three ninety five six. You can text little
voicemail or calling live to give your comments or questions.
I have quite a few right here. I even have
some even now as recording. People still texting me stuff
like that. So they want to ask you this. One
person asks, do you follow the current wrestling product if
(23:21):
Soler promotions?
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Well, I watch a E W and w.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
W E okay, and I assume that's pretty much it, right,
No New Japan, no chiple A. That's just those two writers.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Well only the ones that are that are showcased on
those particular shows, the ones that they have partnerships because
New Japan has partnership with A.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
Yeah, okay, so you want to watch it by extension
if it's like you know, okay, okay, oh it's crazy.
I didn't, I keep it getting he's holding that. Speaking
of black champions, what'st of the name of the NX champion?
That was the name again? I forgot, I lost, I
(24:09):
want oh no, no, I was saying, I forgot. It's
actually a NXT so on tonight heat wave. I think
it's tonight going on right now. Iron enough, he's a
black champ. He's a black champion. I forgot. His name
is African guy with his name over fed me? Yes? Yes,
so south of them watching that, I'm done with you
(24:33):
watch that check real quick. Also had let's have the
ABU show on today, which I didn't see either, but
I get a chance of looking at that look kind
of good. Okay, okay, uh, this person acts, hold on this,
this person acts, what about M M A or other
(24:55):
or other combat sports.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Uh do you like? I guess yeah, uh not really
really not really Again, I'm in I'm an old school guy,
and things really have to I have to like the
person that has to really be attractive to me. I
hadn't watched it since Ken Shamrock and Dan to b
(25:21):
Severn and those guys. Yeah, no offense guys, long time.
But I'm saying, and if you and if you don't
have the charisma that those guys had, I'm not watching
dang man. I'm just not a fan. Like fans watch
everything and everybody that's not me.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
I hear you, I hear you, I hear you. This
One person asks, w W E or a.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
W uh w w E has a better overall product,
but ae W is is gaining some ground. I like
some of the things that ae W does, but a
E W still still is kind of in the minor
(26:15):
leagues in my opinion.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Mm hmm okay, okay, okay, bring good question. This person asks,
how do you feel about the current wrestling product?
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Well, it's uh, it has some bright spots. I mean
I certainly, I certainly follow it, I certainly keep up
with it. I think a E W is bringing a
lot of competition, and that's what w w E really needed.
They needed that competition. I just want I want ae
(26:55):
W to raise their profile a little bit more or
they seem to be kind of taking on the slot
that w c W had to a certain extent, and
I think there's a lot more character to them that
they can uh bring out without necessarily copying the w
(27:19):
w E per se. But I do kind of think
you you need to follow what the big juggernaut is doing.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Okay, Okay, I'll get I'll ask more questions from the
audience later on. But I've been thinking about something you
said earlier, which has to be thinking. So I'm trying
to see how to phrase this. So I guess so
you said earlier. You said earlier, Right, it has to
(27:49):
be depended across the world to be considered a world champion,
a world championship. Right. I was gonna mentioned like Sasha Bangs,
but I lost track of how many she has right now,
something will like mentioned her. But I'll give I'll give
(28:09):
you an example. This example represents pretty much like my
entire point that I'm trying to act the NXT Championship, right,
that's this example of my overall point. Do you consider
that world championship? No, because it's not dependent across the world.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Right, No, n w w E does not consider that
a world championship. N NEXT is still that developmental territory.
It just happens to be televised, but that's the developmental territory.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
But okay, but see now it's televised, right, so it
has a world ride reach, so it doesn't count. No, okay,
all right, okay, w w.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
E does not consider that a world titled.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
I mean w w E like they consider stuff. They say,
what is it, what isn't? Based on what's convenient at
that time, so you know, yeah, but okay, that's.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
A good point by that.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
So so so so sometimes the NXT Championship counts, right,
Sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes sometimes it's developmental, sometimes it's.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
Third brand, you know, when does it count?
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Well? So okay, so you know how, I'll give you example, right,
uh uh Well recently, right, Charlotte Flair was and Lex
were listening. We're listening their accomplishments, right, and she brought
up that she's a certain how many time champions and
she counted the nc NT championships, right, But at the
(29:58):
same time, Right, you have Sammy's a former NXT champion,
right and up until up until La Russelmena thirty which
one was it thirty thirty nine, he never won a
championship on the main roster. And they've been saying that, oh,
he's been champion, but I saw much champion in twenty fourteen,
so he's sold. I'm saying he counts.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
When counts, I think I know what you're saying.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Counts.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
It does count when it comes to the titles that
you have when you talk about being a triple crown
champion or a Grand Slam champion, but not a though
it's not a world title. Because when you talk about
who's a triple crown, if they won the Intercontinental Championship,
a Tag Team Championship, and the world title, then that's
(30:48):
a triple crown. And the NXT was one of those,
then that can be a Grand Slam because they won
four and they'll count the NNT as a championship, but
it's not a world champion.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
But they've been to other countries, they've been next they
they've been like, they've been to Canada, they've been to Japan,
they've been there. No, we still know they've been to Austria,
they've been, they've been around the world.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
That what you're saying. But it's not a world title.
It's a championship, but it's not a world title.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
Okay, I know, I know you don't really follow in these, right,
but no I do, especially right here in New York City. Right,
you have One Division Pro, you have LPW and all
kinds of places, and real quick shout to Jared Diaz.
He's the current one Division Pro champion. And myself right
and the people on One Division Pro, we we not
(31:43):
only try to market him as a world champion, but
we demonstrate that by having him go to Mexico and
go to Europe and all the world. And so would
you count and so this is the truth? Think we
because I work I keep seeing we because I worked
with them for a little bit. So we would send
(32:06):
we would send jaredy not only over the country, but
we sent to We sent them to Europe, and we
sent them to Japan, and we send them to them
whoever else around the world. Right, would you count that
as a world champion because we're sending all the world
to defend it. Would you count championship?
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Well, it's it's not up to me. It's what the
promotion considers a world title. Okay, okay, that's that's not
up to Okay.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Well all right, right, Well I consider the One Division
Pro Championship World Championship. I also consider the LPW Championship
world Championship because only King, the former champion, was depending
in Japan an overplaced, so shouting him for that, Okay, okay.
So it's like so based on we're just saying, right,
(32:57):
it's not only like where they defend it or where
they will feature it, but also if the company treats
it like a world championship.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
I don't understand your point. I'm just what you're saying,
but I don't.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
No, I'm asking I'm asking you like the world I'm
I'm asking you so so we can agree on so
according to you what you're saying, right, it depends on
the cow the champion, and I'm not promotion how treats
it right, how they treat it, That's that's what you're saying.
Mm hmm. Would I be wrong? When I be like wrong?
(33:37):
Is saying that? Okay? It's uh, let's say the intercon champion, right,
the inter icy champion right, Well, I thought that's the
bad example. That's a bad example. So of course you
(34:00):
the criteria is that the company has to technowledge it
as the world championship. Mm hmm okay, and they also
have and also they have to defend it across the world.
That's what you're saying too, right, yes, so those are
two criterias, okay for to be that you consider for
the world chap to be a world championship, got you? Okay,
(34:22):
all right, so I guess okay, so cool, cool, cool.
I guess that's just trying to clear up. Let's give
us some mister questions. I got some from my boy
Chris Fleming shot at him regular to call him. He
asks here at the hotline, what or how has the
wrestling business changed from the old to the new?
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Cool? You guys have some have some nice broad questions there,
because that's that's wide open. It's it's I wish it
was a little more specific there, but I mean it's
it's it's changed. And uh, I mean how far back
(35:09):
in the day from the territories. Certainly television change wrestling itself.
When you look at the popularity of the sport, it's
it's it's it's got a major following now. I mean
(35:30):
we're talking we're talking billions of dollars. W W is
like eight billion dollars in a W is like like
two billions something like that. I mean, so it's, uh,
it's it's huge these days.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
Okay, Okay, I guess this last question. I could ask,
and by ways Closten, he acts or he or she
don't know who this is, but this person acts. What
the differences or what transitions do you foresee with today's talent?
Speaker 2 (36:10):
What ask that again? What transitions do I see with
today's talent?
Speaker 1 (36:16):
What differences or what transitions do you foresee with today's talent?
Speaker 2 (36:26):
Okay, that's that's kind of that's kind of predictive. It
will put me into more of a wizard's kind of position.
I mean, I don't I can't really foresee where the
talent is going. I like educated guests, old school talent.
(36:47):
I would like for them to be I would like
for the new people to be more like the old
school talent. And by that that's what I mean by
I don't just watch the show just to watch it.
People could back in the day, they could cut promos
and you enjoyed it, not even wrestling in the ring.
(37:08):
They knew how to build a feud with another person
promoted in the ring against each other. And that's what
I'm seeing. I want people to understand the Rock was
an old school artist. He knew that gift of the gap.
He knew how to talk and how to build a
(37:29):
feud before he got into the fight with the person.
That's what I want to see. I can't say I
foresee that happening. I would love for that to happen.
I would love for those the new talent to study
the older talent and be able to draw people in
just by what you're saying. That is something that Dusty
(37:52):
Rhodes was good about. That's something that Air was good about.
You know, they could talk and that's what made the difference.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Okay, okay, all right, I think that's everything we got
for now. Real quick, plugs your website w w w
W dot w w W dot David dot com. Also
just search also just search David la on uh what's
(38:22):
it called? Uh? What was it? Amazon?
Speaker 2 (38:27):
Yeah? Bookstores?
Speaker 1 (38:28):
Yeah, right, well, real quick, like with all the bookstores
we found that like virtually or like or like in real.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Life worldwide, every bookstore.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
Books, so Borns and Nobles, uh borders what every book
still everybody? Okay? And online and in real life right yes, yes, okay, okay,
bet but social media.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
All of that is still run through my website, but
essentially at David Elschabas.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Okay, uh so Twitter, Facebook, Instagram LinkedIn for him just
in few okay, everybody, real quick check out, not just
well check it out, like like literally check it out,
check out. Get it from the store, however how you
get it from? Right? What's in the book? What's in
(39:26):
the book? Tell us tell you tell us Black Gold
Discovering Pro Wrestling's Black World Champions, Volume three or through
the dish has.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
To say what what's in the book?
Speaker 1 (39:39):
No, no, I'm saying, plug the book, Come on the book.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Yeah. I mean, if you want to learn about the
history of the black professional wrestling champions who were world champions,
it's all detailed in this book. The female chamampions are there,
the tag team champions are there. That's what especially in
this one unique. I also have a for the scholars
(40:11):
out there. There's a rhetorical analysis that starts off with
WrestleMania nineteen, the match between Triple H and Booker T
and that particular promo was very controversial. Oh yeah, I
think that that kind of sets the stage for what
we're talking about and gives people an idea of what
(40:35):
the black people have to go through to be a champion.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
So, so yeah, you cover people like bear Cat right,
both Brazil, Ron Simmons, Mercedes, Monet Blanca, Bellaire, Jay Cargill.
Who else you got? Naomi? He just gave it up.
This snout recently quest lass her for her pregnancy. But
(41:00):
real quick, right, you said that you that you only
follow like w W A W Right. So so Mercedes especially, right,
she has like multiple titles concurrently, right, So the New Japan, well,
well I don't really know which ones they are, so dang,
(41:21):
I gott look them up because all right, so do
you count? So do you count? Not? I'm not talking
about what she has right now, I'm talking saying in general,
So do you count, for example, the New Japan Championship,
World Championship? Do you count like the Triple A Championship?
You count like atheists, not w W or A W.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
Yes, New Japan is definitely a world time.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
Okay, okay, okay, okay, Yeah, But the thing is right.
You don't really follow. You don't really follow anything other
than those A W W W, so like you could
be missing. I mean, I'm not saying that. I don't
know if they do or don't because I'm not super young,
not as deep in the history as you are, but
like seeing as we follow.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
When you when you say follow, I can follow them online.
Now if you're talking about do I watch those shows? No,
because I don't have access to watch those shows on TV,
so I can't follow them like that when you say follow.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
But you still got you still got to be still
do your still you do your due diligence, you still
do your research, right, Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, cool, cool, cool, Okay.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
What they don't show in your area?
Speaker 1 (42:38):
I mean, well, well as far as New Japan goals, right,
New Japan World, it's like ten dollars a month.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
That's for fans.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
Okay, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha, got you, got you, got you?
Got you? Do you did you ever watch? Did you
ever like like watch or follow TEENA? Yes, I'm just curious. Okay, okay, okay,
I haven't watched ten years because they stopped showing it
on my cable provider, they stop carrying on the right verizon.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
That's what I'm saying, brother, I was saying earlier. I mean,
you can't really watch what they don't what they don't show.
They did have a YouTube, a presence on YouTube at
one time, but that's.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
I gotta get the Somebody tell me how to watch
t X look good stuff, the whole NXT partnership. I'm
how to watch how to watch TEENA? Does like get
the app or something?
Speaker 2 (43:42):
Now? No?
Speaker 1 (43:43):
Yeah, okay, I think that's everything. And last words we
signed off.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
Again. I mean, if you want to know about the
history of the Black Professional Rats, there's Champions World Champions,
go out and get the book. It tells you everything
about the singles champions as well as the tag team champions.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
Okay, okay, I get that book with quicks up playing,
get that book. I'm I'm I'm gonna read it. I
definitely want interested. I like, I like to read personally.
I played like a little about history and a lot
of stuff. So I'm getting the book too. That's Black
Gold Discovered Pro Wrestlings Black Champions, third Edition. It's everywhere, man,
(44:32):
It's on Amazon. It's like it's like in little bookstores
like Barnes and Nobles wherever you can go. Well, David L.
Shabaz all right, checked out take out the website David
Olshabas dot com. Thank you for the questions. I got
a lot of them this time, so I appreciate you
all listening Highlight now on seven five six W dot com.
(44:55):
I think we're out of here by way right for
if you were curious, right the reason why I'm not
my dad, I'm on my bed because I have.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
A leg cramps.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
I'm trying to stretch my leg. I'll be alright. That's
why I don't want to think I was like being
like disrespectful whatever.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
Yeah, you didn't get a herd in the ring? Did you?
Speaker 1 (45:13):
Oh? Nah? Nah. It's funny too because I was just
talking about that before before he came on. I was
on the phone with a friend of mine and I
was telling how I'm trying to get I'm trying to
get mentically cleared, not not to rustle, but to be
like a a what do you call it? Be featured
on a on a promotion look look promotion in New
(45:36):
York City. So yeah, ah, so they say too bad
if you if you know more about me? What's going
on for me? Social media? You already know what it is.
It's not about me, thought my boy David Shabaz Instagram, uh, Twitter, Facebook,
LinkedIn and it was just website again, David boss dot com.
(45:56):
And get his book. Stop playing, get his book. It's
good stuff, good stuff, a lot of a lot of now,
a lot of knowledge could be dropped on you. So
tat out real quick. All right man, I'm gonna go
take some leave, get something to eat and just relax
and uh yeah man, I'm holler do good stuff. Right, yeah,
(46:17):
come on again some time.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
Love to love too. Thank you your your listeners as well.
Speaker 1 (46:24):
Yes, all right man, all right see
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