February 29, 2024 • 24 mins
A new episode of the ALDA Podcast is now available and it starts with a question: How much of a priority are the Western Balkans for the EU?
To answer to this question, the guests of the day will explore and analyse the 'New EU Enlargement Methodology' or 'New Methodology' ✨
So let's leave the floor to Ms. Ana Krstinovska, President of ESTIMA, former State Secretary for EU Affairs in the Government of North Macedonia, First Secretary in the Mission of the Republic of North Macedonia to the EU in Brussels and Advisor for international cooperation to the Prime Minister. Since
2021, also member of the Permanent Strategic Foreign Policy Council in the Ministry for Foreign Affairs of North Macedonia; and Mr. Srdjan Majstorović, Chairman of the Governing Board of the European Policy Centre – CEP, a Belgrade – based think tank. As moderator, we have Sanja Trpkovska from the ALDA Skopje office!
Enjoy! ✨
***
This episode is recorded within the framework of the Media for EU project, a project led by Eurothink – Center for European Strategies from Skopje, conducted in partnership with the Balkan Institute for
Regional Cooperation (BIRC) and the European Association for Local Democracy (ALDA), with support from the European Union.
More about the project here: https://www.alda-europe.eu/media4eu/
To answer to this question, the guests of the day will explore and analyse the 'New EU Enlargement Methodology' or 'New Methodology' ✨
So let's leave the floor to Ms. Ana Krstinovska, President of ESTIMA, former State Secretary for EU Affairs in the Government of North Macedonia, First Secretary in the Mission of the Republic of North Macedonia to the EU in Brussels and Advisor for international cooperation to the Prime Minister. Since
2021, also member of the Permanent Strategic Foreign Policy Council in the Ministry for Foreign Affairs of North Macedonia; and Mr. Srdjan Majstorović, Chairman of the Governing Board of the European Policy Centre – CEP, a Belgrade – based think tank. As moderator, we have Sanja Trpkovska from the ALDA Skopje office!
Enjoy! ✨
***
This episode is recorded within the framework of the Media for EU project, a project led by Eurothink – Center for European Strategies from Skopje, conducted in partnership with the Balkan Institute for
Regional Cooperation (BIRC) and the European Association for Local Democracy (ALDA), with support from the European Union.
More about the project here: https://www.alda-europe.eu/media4eu/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Hello everyone, and welcome to a new episode of the
second season of the ALDA podcast Shades of Democracy. I'm
Sanya Trapkovska from Alda Skokia and I will be the
host of today's episode. Today's podcast is recorded within the
Media for EU project, dedicated to the improvement of media
and journalism standards in the Republic of North Macedonia. The
(00:46):
Media for EU project is led by euro Think Center
for European Strategies from SCOPIA, conducted in partnership with the
Balkan Institute for Regional Cooperation and the European Association for
Local Democracy with support from the European Union. The EU
enlargement remains the hottest topic for the Western Balkans for
(01:07):
many years. But how big of a priority are the
Western Balcons for the EU.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
This question leads us to the topic of the day, the.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
New EU Enlargement Methodology or short the new Methodology, and
we have the most wonderful guest today to discuss it.
Allow me to introduce first Miss Anna Christinovska, President of ESTIMA,
former State Secretary for EU Affairs in the Government of
North Macedonia, First Secretary in the Mission of the Republic
(01:38):
of North Macedonia to the EU in Brussels and Advisor
for International Cooperation to the Prime Minister since twenty twenty one.
She is a member of the Permanent Strategic Foreign Policy
Council in the Ministry for Foreign Affairs of North Macedonia
and Mister Serjean Mastorovitch chairman of the governing board of
(02:00):
the European Policy Center, a Belgrade based think tank. He
served as Deputy director of the Serbian Europeantigration Office and
was member of the negotiating team for accession of the
Republic of Serbia to the European Union in charge of
political criteria and rule of law chapters twenty three and
(02:21):
twenty four. Anna Surgent, Welcome to Alda's podcast and thank
you for accepting our invitation. Can you please tell us
what is the new methodology and what it means for
the Western Balkan countries on their EU path. Anna, can
you please start first?
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Sure.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
First of all, thank you for having me on this podcast.
Since twenty thirteen and since Croatia joined the European Union,
we haven't had any good news regarding in large and policy.
That is, none of the countries that were candidates or
potential candidates managed to join the EU, and that is
for a number of reasons, both on the side of
(03:03):
the candidate countries and on the side of the EU.
We became all the more disappointed when the former President
of the European Commission announced there would be no enlargement
in foreseeable future.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
But then it turned out to be true.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
So in twenty twenty, the European Commission decided to adopt
a new methodology.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
It aimed to improve the predictability.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Of the process and to ensure that it is merit
based that the candidate countries can progress on the path
towards accession by enhancing their reforms, or that the process
is reversible, meaning that if they do not have any
success in implementing those reforms, then they will not be
(03:51):
allowed to move forward.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Thank you, Anna s Jehan, What is your opinion on
this well, first of all, very much for the invitation.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
It's a pleasure to be here with you in Scopia
and to have this opportunity to discuss this important topic.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
As a missus.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
Kristinowska mentioned that the new or so called revised methodology
for the enlargement of.
Speaker 5 (04:16):
The EU is a product of the fact that there
was a need to unlock one of the most successful
EU policies ever.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
Enlargement policy of the EU was always the strongest.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
I would say, form policy tool of the European.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
Union and the way to spread the influence and to
protect the interests of the member states. And it was
obvious that ever since the latest accession of Croatia.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
To the U onwards, we had a crisis of.
Speaker 4 (04:49):
The enlargement policy, so there was a need to revive
the whole concept of the enlargement.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
I would argue that.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
In qual terms, unfortunately, revised methodology did not brought anything
considerably new to the EU integration or rather EU.
Speaker 6 (05:12):
Enlargement process, and the very idea of creating a revised
methodology is a proof that unfortunately we failed on both sides.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
On the side of the EU candidate countries who did
not perform as they should, who did not declare their
commitment in the right way.
Speaker 7 (05:32):
On the side of the EU itself, there was a
problems as well, a permanent internal problem that EU was
experiencing ever since two thousand.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
And eight onwards.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
Contributed to the fact that there was a crisis within
the EU that was stealing the attention from the next.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Enlargement of the EU. I would also argue that the
more important event for the re invention of the enlargement
policy happened two years afterwards, and that was.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
The unfortunate uh uh, and of the tragic aggression of
Russia on the Ukraine. We're going to mark this anniversary
second anniversary in a couple of days, and this was
the event basically that helped you to rediscover the important
strategic importance of the of the enlargement policy, I would say,
(06:34):
and maybe finished by by quoting a very hard but
it's uncharacteristical uh a person, a former heavy heavy heavyweight
box champion of the world, who said, everybody has a plan,
or in this case, everybody can have a method, but
(06:55):
if when you're struck with reality, all methodologists and strategies
the falling part.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
So what is important is that with this unfortunate.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
Invasion in Ukraine, the EU has finally rediscovered its own
interest Indian largement policy, and hopefully this will really be
great the process in the foreseeable future, for the sake
of citizens of Western Balkans, obviously, but for the sake
of the events itself also, And.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Do you have something else to say regarding.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
This, well, it's interesting that certain mentioned Ukraine, and indeed
it was a moment that Restian aggression in Ukraine was
a moment that somehow brought the attention back to enlargenment policy,
but also shifted the focus from the Western Balkans rather
to the countries of Eastern Europe, because several years ago
(07:55):
we were the only aspiring countries, meaning the Western Balkan countries,
to join the EU, and now we have a situation
where we have nine candidate countries plus Turkey that are
on track to join the EU, which means that we
are no longer the focus of the institutions when it
(08:19):
comes to enlargement. And in a way it is good
because it provides an incentive for us as a country
and for our authorities to work hard to demonstrate that
they deserve to join the union because the process is
this should be merit based. We all know that the
EU does not have the capacity to integrate many new
(08:42):
countries all at once, so it is going to be
a process, a gradual process. And in that context we
are facing a rather face with a rather new situation.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
We are we have to deserve our right to be.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
On that EU membership path and we need to work harder.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
To implement the reforms in order.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
To join the Union rather sooner than later.
Speaker 8 (09:10):
You both recently trained the participants in the Annual School
of European Policies in Dallest, focusing on the participation of
the media in the negotiations for membership of North Macedonia
in the EU. Your students were representatives of civil society
and public institutions, as well as journalists and media workers,
(09:31):
university students and young professionals interested in the EU integration process.
How would you assess the understanding of the European integration
process between representatives of civil society organizations, the media and
the other stakeholders.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
How important are they.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
In terms of stakeholders, they are extremely important because they
are supposed to drink the EU accession process closer to
the citizens.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
US is a whole of society process and it does
not concern.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Only the government and the public authorities, but it involves
all societal groups, civil society, journalists and ordinary citizens who
will feel the benefits or will be affected in some
way by the EU accession. And in that respect, I
think that given the fact that we are a veteran
(10:25):
in the process. We have been a candidate country for
almost twenty years. Our civil society and media representatives are
quite well informed about the process, but they are mostly
focused on the destination, meaning that in a way the
process is reduced to opening accession negotiations and the perspective
(10:50):
of joining the EU.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
But my impression, my personal.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Impression is that not enough attention is.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Paid to the.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
Aspect related of the EU accession implications that we live
at the moment, because we have been working on our
process for two decades and during this period we have
made a lot of alignment with the EU that has
(11:20):
had an impact changing and I would say largely.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Improving people's lives.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
So in future, and I hope that that would be
one takeaway from the training for all the participants, I
hope that civil society and media will talk more about
these aspects how the EU changed the lives of ordinary citizens.
That it is not a merely political or geopolitical process.
It is not an end destination, but it is rather
(11:48):
about the journey, about how we are transforming our society
while we are implementing all these accession reforms. And then
also the EU is not about foreign policy. It has
become domestic policy in all the areas, in all the
box of life. Because the connections between the EU and
(12:12):
our society are so tight. The EU is our number
one partner in terms of education, trade, investments, donor funding, etc.
So it is important to be aware about this that
the EU is not something that will happen after we
join the EU, but it is something that is happening
(12:33):
to us in our everyday lives, and that is why
we should be more aware about it and try to
understand it.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Thank you an thank you very much. That leads me
to our next question.
Speaker 8 (12:45):
Given the similar political, economic and social context, Surgeon, what
is the biggest challenge for the Western Balkans countries on
the EU path and how can it be addressed?
Speaker 9 (12:57):
Before I answer, I would call for a cautious as
when it comes to generalization of the six Western Balkan countries,
or rather concerning the six six Western Balkan countries.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
As Tolstoy said in.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
His introduction of Ankarniana, you know all the happy families
that are look alike, and all those said are said
in their particular ways.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
The same applies to the Western Balkan six.
Speaker 4 (13:23):
Obviously, there are some similarities but we are not the same,
We're not facing the same.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Challenges. However, if you want me to give an overall picture.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
I would say there are two groups of issues which
are burning the or which are the biggest challenges for
the Western Balkan countries.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
First, there is.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
A set of internal challenges which are predominantly connected with
the implementation of the major democratic.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Principles and especially the rule of law. Division of power.
Speaker 4 (13:59):
The influence of executive branch on judiciary and the legislature
branch is something that we are still learning how to
dissiminate these three branches of power. So the function of
democratic institutions is an issue in majority of the Western
Balkan Six countries.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
We can see the.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
Crisis that during the electoral times, we can see parliamentarian
crisis classes, lack of culture of dialog. I wouldn't say
which is a burdening already very difficult political agendas of
these countries. I would also like to raise the issue
in one of the internal challenges.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Related to the media.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
Seeing the media freedom not in all the Western Balkan Six,
but in a country that I'm coming from, Serbia, for example,
I would say that this is the major the most
important challenge that Serbia is facing, but as I said,
it's very difficult realized and in different countries the media
seeing is much more diversified in a sense. The next
(15:07):
set of internal challenges is related to the fighting against corruption.
The corruption is killing the institutions within the region. This
is a This is a huge disadvantage with regards to
the efforts in the EU of session process because it
undermines basically your capacities to negotiate.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
With the EU.
Speaker 4 (15:30):
By corruption, I don't refer exclusively to you know, taking
money for services, but also to political appointments at the
level you know, low level in the administration, in the
local self government institutions, where the hiring and the progression
(15:52):
in these work positions should be exclusively based on the
on the merits, on the individual knowledge, not on the
party affiliation and political orientation. Fight against organized crime is
also something which is an internal challenge, but I would
(16:13):
say this is a regional challenge because this is a
very specific group branch of people who are masters. I
would say in the regional corporation. They are cooperating extremely
successful among themselves, but they are creating an internal challenges.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Because of obviously nature of their business.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
And then there is a set the other set of
challenges which are of external nature.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
And I would say that apart.
Speaker 4 (16:38):
From monteneg perhaps all the remaining five West and Okland
countries have serious challenges which are coming from outside this
country where we are currently in knows everything about the
foreign unfortunately, about the foreign challenges, challenges from the neighboring countries,
the challenges from the neighboring EU.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Member state countries as well. The same goals for Serbia
are and non Kosovo. I mean the two.
Speaker 4 (17:07):
Are interconnected in their let would be a bit quietick
in their destiny.
Speaker 10 (17:13):
If they want to move forward, they are bound to
cooperate and they are bound to address the issues which
are currently dividing them both. And hesegoing apart from internal challenges,
has very serious challenges with its neighborhood, not exclusively with Serbia,
but with Croatia as well.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Albania. The latest developments are pointing out that.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
De grease interests are very much influencing its EU integration agenda.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
So, as I said, apart from Montenegro, perhaps all the
remaining five have.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
These external challenges to be addressed and to cope with
in the future if they want to move forward.
Speaker 11 (17:56):
Thank you, Thank you very much for this insightful as
would you say that there is an enlargement fatigue and
reduced public support among U citizens for you enlargement.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Yes, that has been something that we've seen in the
past decade, and it has been worsening to a certain
extent because in the past several years we see political
parties of the far extreme, more nationalists right, that have
(18:31):
come to power in some EU member states, and the
risk is even bigger with the forthcoming EU elections that
these parties will have a more dominant say when it
comes to different policies, including enlargement, and their position on
enlargement does not leave us very optimistic. So there is
(18:53):
a you enlargement fatigue on the side of the member states,
and even more cynical observers in russ tend to say
that we pretend to reform and the EU pretends to
believe us that we reform, which leads me to the
point that there is not only enlargement fatigue on the
side of the EU member states, but there is enlargement
(19:14):
fatigue in our countries as well, and it is a
sort of a vicious circle because we are not delivering
the reforms we should be. Because of that, we are
not making any progress to joining the EU, and that
in turn does not lead to any substantial actions on
the side of the EU, meaning that no countries have
(19:37):
moved closer to joining the EU, which in turn.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
This incentivizes the process of reforms.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
So it is crucial to find a way to get
out of this vicious circle. But it takes a more
credible EU process unless fatigue in order to get that.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Thank you very much, So John, you like something.
Speaker 12 (19:59):
To yes, sure, I don't want to repeat what very
eloquently over the point it out.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
I would just like to stress that the fuel for.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Politicians is the public support, and without public.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
Support, there are no difficult political choices and political decisions.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
So going back to the start of our discussion and
to make a reference.
Speaker 4 (20:31):
To make a reference to the revised methodology for the
enlargement in this part, which says that the new methodology
will pursue a more political approach to the enlargement. This
is exactly what is required from politicians, both in the
candidate countries and the Indian United States. The revised methodology
requires them to invest part of their political legitimate legitimacy
(20:57):
and to speak to the public about importance in our
case in the candidate countries, about the importance of changes,
about the importance of harmonization of our technical rules in
the area of food safety, for example, how important it is,
for example North Macedonia reserve US in Herzegovina to have
(21:18):
the same standards for their citizens to be protected in
the same way with regards to the food standards for example.
At the same time, the revisement Dolargy requires from the
EU politicians to invest their own political legitimacy and to
talk to their own citizens to explain how strategically important
(21:39):
the new enlargement enlargement to the Western Bocals to the
East Europe is for their everyday.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Life and for the future of Europe itself. I think
the only only cure for this fatigue is to get
to know each other much better.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
To inform our ourselves about the EU, to use these podcasts,
use this different platform that we have to explain to
the European citizens, what is behind this desire of the
Western Boltan citizens to join the EU. To show them
on the geographical map that the West im Balkans is
(22:19):
already surrounded by the EU member states, and you know
that we are geographically already part of the of the project.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
These are very important.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
Issues which tend to be forgotten and it is our
duty to speak about it and to get to know
each other much better. This is the only way to
fight prejudices, to fight the lack of information or misinformations, and.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Yeah, to secure this political fuel for.
Speaker 4 (22:53):
Our politicians to communicate with the public in the best way.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
To present all the benefits of.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
This mutually, I would say beneficial and the neutral and
beneficial both for the candidates and.
Speaker 8 (23:08):
The Thank you very much to both of you. On
that note, we will wrap up today's conversation. This was
very insightful discussion. I hope that soon we will.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Have the opportunity to delve deeper into this topic. Stay
tuned for more engaging conversation on the Other podcast, where
we continue to explore the shades of democracy and endeavors.
Speaker 8 (23:31):
That shape our communities. Our heartfelt thanks to our guests.
Thank you for being part of this enlightening journey with
the ALDA Podcast Don't Forget. You can find the Other
podcast on Spotify, Striker, Google podcast, I podcast, and of
course on all the website, Bank
Hello everyone, and welcome to a new episode of the
second season of the ALDA podcast Shades of Democracy. I'm
Sanya Trapkovska from Alda Skokia and I will be the
host of today's episode. Today's podcast is recorded within the
Media for EU project, dedicated to the improvement of media
and journalism standards in the Republic of North Macedonia. The
(00:46):
Media for EU project is led by euro Think Center
for European Strategies from SCOPIA, conducted in partnership with the
Balkan Institute for Regional Cooperation and the European Association for
Local Democracy with support from the European Union. The EU
enlargement remains the hottest topic for the Western Balkans for
(01:07):
many years. But how big of a priority are the
Western Balcons for the EU.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
This question leads us to the topic of the day, the.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
New EU Enlargement Methodology or short the new Methodology, and
we have the most wonderful guest today to discuss it.
Allow me to introduce first Miss Anna Christinovska, President of ESTIMA,
former State Secretary for EU Affairs in the Government of
North Macedonia, First Secretary in the Mission of the Republic
(01:38):
of North Macedonia to the EU in Brussels and Advisor
for International Cooperation to the Prime Minister since twenty twenty one.
She is a member of the Permanent Strategic Foreign Policy
Council in the Ministry for Foreign Affairs of North Macedonia
and Mister Serjean Mastorovitch chairman of the governing board of
(02:00):
the European Policy Center, a Belgrade based think tank. He
served as Deputy director of the Serbian Europeantigration Office and
was member of the negotiating team for accession of the
Republic of Serbia to the European Union in charge of
political criteria and rule of law chapters twenty three and
(02:21):
twenty four. Anna Surgent, Welcome to Alda's podcast and thank
you for accepting our invitation. Can you please tell us
what is the new methodology and what it means for
the Western Balkan countries on their EU path. Anna, can
you please start first?
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Sure.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
First of all, thank you for having me on this podcast.
Since twenty thirteen and since Croatia joined the European Union,
we haven't had any good news regarding in large and policy.
That is, none of the countries that were candidates or
potential candidates managed to join the EU, and that is
for a number of reasons, both on the side of
(03:03):
the candidate countries and on the side of the EU.
We became all the more disappointed when the former President
of the European Commission announced there would be no enlargement
in foreseeable future.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
But then it turned out to be true.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
So in twenty twenty, the European Commission decided to adopt
a new methodology.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
It aimed to improve the predictability.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Of the process and to ensure that it is merit
based that the candidate countries can progress on the path
towards accession by enhancing their reforms, or that the process
is reversible, meaning that if they do not have any
success in implementing those reforms, then they will not be
(03:51):
allowed to move forward.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Thank you, Anna s Jehan, What is your opinion on
this well, first of all, very much for the invitation.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
It's a pleasure to be here with you in Scopia
and to have this opportunity to discuss this important topic.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
As a missus.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
Kristinowska mentioned that the new or so called revised methodology
for the enlargement of.
Speaker 5 (04:16):
The EU is a product of the fact that there
was a need to unlock one of the most successful
EU policies ever.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
Enlargement policy of the EU was always the strongest.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
I would say, form policy tool of the European.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
Union and the way to spread the influence and to
protect the interests of the member states. And it was
obvious that ever since the latest accession of Croatia.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
To the U onwards, we had a crisis of.
Speaker 4 (04:49):
The enlargement policy, so there was a need to revive
the whole concept of the enlargement.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
I would argue that.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
In qual terms, unfortunately, revised methodology did not brought anything
considerably new to the EU integration or rather EU.
Speaker 6 (05:12):
Enlargement process, and the very idea of creating a revised
methodology is a proof that unfortunately we failed on both sides.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
On the side of the EU candidate countries who did
not perform as they should, who did not declare their
commitment in the right way.
Speaker 7 (05:32):
On the side of the EU itself, there was a
problems as well, a permanent internal problem that EU was
experiencing ever since two thousand.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
And eight onwards.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
Contributed to the fact that there was a crisis within
the EU that was stealing the attention from the next.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Enlargement of the EU. I would also argue that the
more important event for the re invention of the enlargement
policy happened two years afterwards, and that was.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
The unfortunate uh uh, and of the tragic aggression of
Russia on the Ukraine. We're going to mark this anniversary
second anniversary in a couple of days, and this was
the event basically that helped you to rediscover the important
strategic importance of the of the enlargement policy, I would say,
(06:34):
and maybe finished by by quoting a very hard but
it's uncharacteristical uh a person, a former heavy heavy heavyweight
box champion of the world, who said, everybody has a plan,
or in this case, everybody can have a method, but
(06:55):
if when you're struck with reality, all methodologists and strategies
the falling part.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
So what is important is that with this unfortunate.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
Invasion in Ukraine, the EU has finally rediscovered its own
interest Indian largement policy, and hopefully this will really be
great the process in the foreseeable future, for the sake
of citizens of Western Balkans, obviously, but for the sake
of the events itself also, And.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Do you have something else to say regarding.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
This, well, it's interesting that certain mentioned Ukraine, and indeed
it was a moment that Restian aggression in Ukraine was
a moment that somehow brought the attention back to enlargenment policy,
but also shifted the focus from the Western Balkans rather
to the countries of Eastern Europe, because several years ago
(07:55):
we were the only aspiring countries, meaning the Western Balkan countries,
to join the EU, and now we have a situation
where we have nine candidate countries plus Turkey that are
on track to join the EU, which means that we
are no longer the focus of the institutions when it
(08:19):
comes to enlargement. And in a way it is good
because it provides an incentive for us as a country
and for our authorities to work hard to demonstrate that
they deserve to join the union because the process is
this should be merit based. We all know that the
EU does not have the capacity to integrate many new
(08:42):
countries all at once, so it is going to be
a process, a gradual process. And in that context we
are facing a rather face with a rather new situation.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
We are we have to deserve our right to be.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
On that EU membership path and we need to work harder.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
To implement the reforms in order.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
To join the Union rather sooner than later.
Speaker 8 (09:10):
You both recently trained the participants in the Annual School
of European Policies in Dallest, focusing on the participation of
the media in the negotiations for membership of North Macedonia
in the EU. Your students were representatives of civil society
and public institutions, as well as journalists and media workers,
(09:31):
university students and young professionals interested in the EU integration process.
How would you assess the understanding of the European integration
process between representatives of civil society organizations, the media and
the other stakeholders.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
How important are they.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
In terms of stakeholders, they are extremely important because they
are supposed to drink the EU accession process closer to
the citizens.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
US is a whole of society process and it does
not concern.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Only the government and the public authorities, but it involves
all societal groups, civil society, journalists and ordinary citizens who
will feel the benefits or will be affected in some
way by the EU accession. And in that respect, I
think that given the fact that we are a veteran
(10:25):
in the process. We have been a candidate country for
almost twenty years. Our civil society and media representatives are
quite well informed about the process, but they are mostly
focused on the destination, meaning that in a way the
process is reduced to opening accession negotiations and the perspective
(10:50):
of joining the EU.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
But my impression, my personal.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Impression is that not enough attention is.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Paid to the.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
Aspect related of the EU accession implications that we live
at the moment, because we have been working on our
process for two decades and during this period we have
made a lot of alignment with the EU that has
(11:20):
had an impact changing and I would say largely.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Improving people's lives.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
So in future, and I hope that that would be
one takeaway from the training for all the participants, I
hope that civil society and media will talk more about
these aspects how the EU changed the lives of ordinary citizens.
That it is not a merely political or geopolitical process.
It is not an end destination, but it is rather
(11:48):
about the journey, about how we are transforming our society
while we are implementing all these accession reforms. And then
also the EU is not about foreign policy. It has
become domestic policy in all the areas, in all the
box of life. Because the connections between the EU and
(12:12):
our society are so tight. The EU is our number
one partner in terms of education, trade, investments, donor funding, etc.
So it is important to be aware about this that
the EU is not something that will happen after we
join the EU, but it is something that is happening
(12:33):
to us in our everyday lives, and that is why
we should be more aware about it and try to
understand it.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Thank you an thank you very much. That leads me
to our next question.
Speaker 8 (12:45):
Given the similar political, economic and social context, Surgeon, what
is the biggest challenge for the Western Balkans countries on
the EU path and how can it be addressed?
Speaker 9 (12:57):
Before I answer, I would call for a cautious as
when it comes to generalization of the six Western Balkan countries,
or rather concerning the six six Western Balkan countries.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
As Tolstoy said in.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
His introduction of Ankarniana, you know all the happy families
that are look alike, and all those said are said
in their particular ways.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
The same applies to the Western Balkan six.
Speaker 4 (13:23):
Obviously, there are some similarities but we are not the same,
We're not facing the same.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Challenges. However, if you want me to give an overall picture.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
I would say there are two groups of issues which
are burning the or which are the biggest challenges for
the Western Balkan countries.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
First, there is.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
A set of internal challenges which are predominantly connected with
the implementation of the major democratic.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Principles and especially the rule of law. Division of power.
Speaker 4 (13:59):
The influence of executive branch on judiciary and the legislature
branch is something that we are still learning how to
dissiminate these three branches of power. So the function of
democratic institutions is an issue in majority of the Western
Balkan Six countries.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
We can see the.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
Crisis that during the electoral times, we can see parliamentarian
crisis classes, lack of culture of dialog. I wouldn't say
which is a burdening already very difficult political agendas of
these countries. I would also like to raise the issue
in one of the internal challenges.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Related to the media.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
Seeing the media freedom not in all the Western Balkan Six,
but in a country that I'm coming from, Serbia, for example,
I would say that this is the major the most
important challenge that Serbia is facing, but as I said,
it's very difficult realized and in different countries the media
seeing is much more diversified in a sense. The next
(15:07):
set of internal challenges is related to the fighting against corruption.
The corruption is killing the institutions within the region. This
is a This is a huge disadvantage with regards to
the efforts in the EU of session process because it
undermines basically your capacities to negotiate.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
With the EU.
Speaker 4 (15:30):
By corruption, I don't refer exclusively to you know, taking
money for services, but also to political appointments at the
level you know, low level in the administration, in the
local self government institutions, where the hiring and the progression
(15:52):
in these work positions should be exclusively based on the
on the merits, on the individual knowledge, not on the
party affiliation and political orientation. Fight against organized crime is
also something which is an internal challenge, but I would
(16:13):
say this is a regional challenge because this is a
very specific group branch of people who are masters. I
would say in the regional corporation. They are cooperating extremely
successful among themselves, but they are creating an internal challenges.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Because of obviously nature of their business.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
And then there is a set the other set of
challenges which are of external nature.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
And I would say that apart.
Speaker 4 (16:38):
From monteneg perhaps all the remaining five West and Okland
countries have serious challenges which are coming from outside this
country where we are currently in knows everything about the
foreign unfortunately, about the foreign challenges, challenges from the neighboring countries,
the challenges from the neighboring EU.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Member state countries as well. The same goals for Serbia
are and non Kosovo. I mean the two.
Speaker 4 (17:07):
Are interconnected in their let would be a bit quietick
in their destiny.
Speaker 10 (17:13):
If they want to move forward, they are bound to
cooperate and they are bound to address the issues which
are currently dividing them both. And hesegoing apart from internal challenges,
has very serious challenges with its neighborhood, not exclusively with Serbia,
but with Croatia as well.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Albania. The latest developments are pointing out that.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
De grease interests are very much influencing its EU integration agenda.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
So, as I said, apart from Montenegro, perhaps all the
remaining five have.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
These external challenges to be addressed and to cope with
in the future if they want to move forward.
Speaker 11 (17:56):
Thank you, Thank you very much for this insightful as
would you say that there is an enlargement fatigue and
reduced public support among U citizens for you enlargement.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Yes, that has been something that we've seen in the
past decade, and it has been worsening to a certain
extent because in the past several years we see political
parties of the far extreme, more nationalists right, that have
(18:31):
come to power in some EU member states, and the
risk is even bigger with the forthcoming EU elections that
these parties will have a more dominant say when it
comes to different policies, including enlargement, and their position on
enlargement does not leave us very optimistic. So there is
(18:53):
a you enlargement fatigue on the side of the member states,
and even more cynical observers in russ tend to say
that we pretend to reform and the EU pretends to
believe us that we reform, which leads me to the
point that there is not only enlargement fatigue on the
side of the EU member states, but there is enlargement
(19:14):
fatigue in our countries as well, and it is a
sort of a vicious circle because we are not delivering
the reforms we should be. Because of that, we are
not making any progress to joining the EU, and that
in turn does not lead to any substantial actions on
the side of the EU, meaning that no countries have
(19:37):
moved closer to joining the EU, which in turn.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
This incentivizes the process of reforms.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
So it is crucial to find a way to get
out of this vicious circle. But it takes a more
credible EU process unless fatigue in order to get that.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Thank you very much, So John, you like something.
Speaker 12 (19:59):
To yes, sure, I don't want to repeat what very
eloquently over the point it out.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
I would just like to stress that the fuel for.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Politicians is the public support, and without public.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
Support, there are no difficult political choices and political decisions.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
So going back to the start of our discussion and
to make a reference.
Speaker 4 (20:31):
To make a reference to the revised methodology for the
enlargement in this part, which says that the new methodology
will pursue a more political approach to the enlargement. This
is exactly what is required from politicians, both in the
candidate countries and the Indian United States. The revised methodology
requires them to invest part of their political legitimate legitimacy
(20:57):
and to speak to the public about importance in our
case in the candidate countries, about the importance of changes,
about the importance of harmonization of our technical rules in
the area of food safety, for example, how important it is,
for example North Macedonia reserve US in Herzegovina to have
(21:18):
the same standards for their citizens to be protected in
the same way with regards to the food standards for example.
At the same time, the revisement Dolargy requires from the
EU politicians to invest their own political legitimacy and to
talk to their own citizens to explain how strategically important
(21:39):
the new enlargement enlargement to the Western Bocals to the
East Europe is for their everyday.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Life and for the future of Europe itself. I think
the only only cure for this fatigue is to get
to know each other much better.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
To inform our ourselves about the EU, to use these podcasts,
use this different platform that we have to explain to
the European citizens, what is behind this desire of the
Western Boltan citizens to join the EU. To show them
on the geographical map that the West im Balkans is
(22:19):
already surrounded by the EU member states, and you know
that we are geographically already part of the of the project.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
These are very important.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
Issues which tend to be forgotten and it is our
duty to speak about it and to get to know
each other much better. This is the only way to
fight prejudices, to fight the lack of information or misinformations, and.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Yeah, to secure this political fuel for.
Speaker 4 (22:53):
Our politicians to communicate with the public in the best way.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
To present all the benefits of.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
This mutually, I would say beneficial and the neutral and
beneficial both for the candidates and.
Speaker 8 (23:08):
The Thank you very much to both of you. On
that note, we will wrap up today's conversation. This was
very insightful discussion. I hope that soon we will.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Have the opportunity to delve deeper into this topic. Stay
tuned for more engaging conversation on the Other podcast, where
we continue to explore the shades of democracy and endeavors.
Speaker 8 (23:31):
That shape our communities. Our heartfelt thanks to our guests.
Thank you for being part of this enlightening journey with
the ALDA Podcast Don't Forget. You can find the Other
podcast on Spotify, Striker, Google podcast, I podcast, and of
course on all the website, Bank
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