May 28, 2024 • 36 mins
Join us in this episode of ALDA Podcast "Shades of Democracy" as we discuss EU enlargement, and developments in Ukraine.
Our distinguished guests, Antonella Valmorbida, ALDA Secretary General and Marta Barandiy, founder of Promote Ukraine, share their perspectives on the situation in Ukraine, its links with the EU, and ALDA's role in supporting democratic values in the region.Tune in to gain more knowledge on the topic!
Useful links:
ALDA Flagship Initiative in Ukraine ➡️ https://bit.ly/4aQo94l
Promote Ukraine website ➡️ https://bit.ly/4bXDssi
Our distinguished guests, Antonella Valmorbida, ALDA Secretary General and Marta Barandiy, founder of Promote Ukraine, share their perspectives on the situation in Ukraine, its links with the EU, and ALDA's role in supporting democratic values in the region.Tune in to gain more knowledge on the topic!
Useful links:
ALDA Flagship Initiative in Ukraine ➡️ https://bit.ly/4aQo94l
Promote Ukraine website ➡️ https://bit.ly/4bXDssi
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Hello everyone, and welcome to a new insightful episode of
ALDA podcast Shades of Democracy. I'm an als Needi from
the communications team of ALDA and I will be your
host today. We have a very interesting episode ahead discussing
European Union enlargement and developments in Ukraine. With recent milestones
in new Ukraine relations and ongoing efforts to expand the
(00:42):
European community, there's much to explore and understand. Joining us
today are esteem guests who bring valuable insights into these topics.
Antonella Almarbida, ALDA Secretary General, will provide experts, analysis and
shed light on Alda's role in supporting democratic values in
the region. We're also joined by Marta Barandi, founder of
(01:05):
Promote Ukraine and a prominent figure in Belgian politics, who
will share her perspectives on the situation in Ukraine and
its links with the EU. So without lingering more, let's
get into the discussion itself and gain valuable knowledge from
our guests. Thank you both of you for being with
me today and it's really a pleasure to have you
with us today. Dear Martha, I will start with you. You've
(01:28):
founded some ten years ago Promote Ukraine a prominent ango
which received the European Citizens Price twenty twenty two from
the European Parliament, and it received it for its massive
support of Ukraine. Tell us more about you, your background,
how you came to become a candidate for the elections.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Thank you, thank you for inviting for this podcast. I
started in the promote Ukraine ten years ago when Russia
occupied Krainia. When Yuromelan started, I wanted to give more
information to people about what's happening in Ukraine because the
information that people were receiving here was given to them
through the filter.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Of Russian news.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
So I wanted to make sure that people get the
Ukrainian perspective of let's say, perspective of Ukrainian people. I
wanted this, I felt it was my passion a all
dissertation basically on the interest of people. I wanted the
interest of people to be in the core of any
politics or geopolitics. And it goes back to actually to
(02:32):
two thousand or two thousand and four. I started my
studies in two thousands in Viv in Ukraine, and in
two thousand and four the revolution Orange Revolution happened in Ukraine,
and that is when I felt that democracy was under
threat and I went with my father to the Maidan.
It was also this revolution was done in Madwan and
(02:52):
we were fighting for the correct results of the election,
and actually the people of Ukraine won back then, not Yanokovich,
but Yushchenkov was elected as a president. Luckily that revolution
was done without any bullet, without any any any blood shed.
(03:13):
But I remember when I exited the door of my house,
I was twenty years old back then. My mom told me,
I know that anything can happen, but I understand that
he must go. And I went from relief to Kiev,
not knowing whether Yanakovich was going to use bullet bullets
(03:35):
to shoot people during that time. So that was my
passion for interests of the people, interests of the country
of Ukraine to become democratic. But all my professional background
goes back also to Austria and Germany where I studied
(03:55):
European law, human rights law and international law. So that's
all in connected my passion and my studies professional life.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Thank you very much for your answer. Very interesting. You
need to know how all of this started and where
it came from. Antonella, You, as I said, are Secretary
General of ALDA, the European Association for Local Democracy, which
has been working for more than ten years in Ukraine
on good governance and citizen participation. Can you tell us
(04:25):
a bit more about what the full scale invasion has
changed for ALDA and for all ALDER members.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Yes, so hello everyone, I'm very pleased to be here
also with Martha, very honored by her presence in our podcast. Yes,
ALDA started to work in twenty twelve because we were
part of the development of local democracy in Eastern partnership
(04:55):
countries and ALDA started working also with the Council Europe
where when these countries from Eastern Europe joined the Council
of Europe and they had to promote local democracy. So
it was in this path of strengthening local governments, new mayors,
new elections. So of course we worked in all the countries,
(05:18):
and not only in Ukraine. We started also in thousand
Caucuses and then also as I said in twenty twelve
in Ukraine, we established many programs so with CSOs with
local governments to a company somehow the strengthening of local communities.
And in this path we used our instruments, which are
(05:42):
the local democracy agencies. Those are platforms of local authorities,
regional authorities and civil society working together in a certain place,
engaging also European partners. So we were approached by Lower
Silesia Poland to open local Democracy Agency at that time
(06:02):
in Nipropetrovsk which now is Nepro as a city, and
we started our work in twenty twelve, twenty and thirteen,
and then we had to stop the process because of
the development unfortunate in Ukraine and in Eastern Ukraine, and
we opened the Local Democracy Agency one year later in
(06:25):
twenty fifteen. And then in Nepro with our European partners,
we developed some projects for civil society and with local governments,
and we worked with Nipropetrovsk region. We started also to
investigate other ways and other places in this big country,
because something that the European side, the eoside does not
(06:47):
entirely visualize is our Ukraine is big, this is out
of our European scale. We investigated to open an a
DA in Odessa, and then Odessa was not successful at
that time, and the mayor of Gdansk asked us to
consider either Mikolaiv or Mariopol. So the Gdansk asked us
(07:13):
to accompany their international corporation in Ukraine and the mayor
of Gdance, who unfortunately was assassinated in two thousand and seventeen,
Pavel Adamovich. He called me, he said, what do you
think if we try something in Mariopol. I look at
the map and I said, oh my god, over there,
(07:37):
and he said, look, yes, there is a brilliant mayor,
absolutely interesting people. So we went down to Mariopol and
started working there. It was a brilliant initiative, absolutely European oriented,
absolutely modern an interesting stivities, and we started there in
(08:01):
twenty seventeen. Of course, the full scale invasion changed everything
for our work in Ukraine, but I would say for
our organization as a whole. In twenty twenty two, we
tried to first to take care of our colleagues. They
(08:23):
were both in Nepro and did Mariopol, so we tried
to put them in safe places and to accompany them.
The LDA survived twenty twenty two. We continue to support
our colleagues from Mariopol while they were living. The place
and where they were located in Ukraine further each changed.
(08:47):
Because of course we have reoriented our work. We also
have provided humanitarian helps through our members, so basically since
twenty twenty two who we oriented our initiative in Ukraine
in three ways. One was humanitarian support, even though ALDA
(09:08):
is not a humanitarian organization, but we brought the support
of our members through our LDAs and our contacts, and
we brought roughly one hundred and fifty thousand euro to
Ukraine and more to help sanitary hittings and all what
they needed in Odessa, in hepro and for our colleagues
(09:30):
in the Yama organization. Then we did also true communication
because we also advocate, We also informed. We also took
part in many organizations and events telling the people what
is happening and why it's important to support Ukraine and
why No, we didn't do anything to provoke Russia, and
(09:56):
no it's not the fault of NATO, and no it's
not this you know. So we took a stand both
politically and as an organization to support Ukraine. And the
third one was to start a flagship initiative to support
the opening of new LDAs. So now we have opened
an DA you know Dessa in twenty twenty three. We
(10:16):
are in the past of opening new offices, so it
means engaging more European partners and we want to continue
in this and we have now a team in Ukraine
and we are really putting a flagship on the opening
of the LDAs. So I think it's changed a lot.
It strengthened our motivation to help Ukrainians and to raise
(10:41):
the importance of their fights for their countries and for
whole Europe.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Actually, this gives a very clear timeline of all Alda's
work in Ukraine since day one. Mart The next question
is for you, Promote Ukraine has been actively involved in
various initiatives to support Ukraine during this challenge in times,
can you share some of the key initiatives or projects
that Promote Ukraine has undertaken to promote democracy, humor, rights
(11:10):
and freedom in Ukraine and maybe also tell us about
a little bit more about who the members, volunteers supporters
of Promote Ukraine do, how do they contribute to your activities? Indeed, yes,
so we have.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Now when the Full Skill Envisions started, we immediately grew
from five people to one hundred fifty people. We had
one hundred fifty volu tiers overnight. I remember we didn't
have office before. And on the twenty fifth of February
twenty twenty two, I wrote to many, many politicians, business
(11:49):
owners a letter of requests to provide us at a space,
because on twenty four to February that on twenty third,
let's say, we were still five people, but in twenty
fifth I saw one hundred fifty and I realized that
we have to coordinate it somehow with people, but also
with journalists, because I started receiving thousands of calls a weekly,
if not daily, and.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
We didn't sleep. All our people didn't sleep.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
We had to organize demonstrations, We had to talk to journalists,
We had to talk to politicians, to municipalities who didn't
know what to do. They started all calling us and
asking how do we receive Ukrainian refugees? Do you already
have contacts with the Ukrainian refugees and so on? So
we had to have a space, and I remember I
wrote a letter also Trobarta Matzla, the President of European Parliament,
(12:33):
asking for a space somewhere near European Parliament that could
be opened twenty four to seven, and she provided us
at Station Europe. So after two weeks she gave Station
Europe to promote Ukraine. For the purposes of Ukrainian civil society,
for which I.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Am very grateful.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
And then after one month's Lista Schwenk, who was president
of European Clomics Social Commedia on that time also provided
a space for Ukrainian CEVIL Society. So now Ukrainian CVIL
Society has two bases when it's in Station Europe and
one in EU European Economic Social Committee for organizing events,
coordinating for helping refugees and so on. And our activities
(13:13):
also grew from I don't know, we had two activities
now we have eight, and so humanitarian aid was one
of those that was complimentary. We started sending help to
Ukraine to fundraise, to advocate for Ukrainian interests in the Council,
(13:35):
I mean European Council, in the European Commission. We organized
more than two hundred demonstrations up toil now, and yeah,
we organized conferences. We brought here for a conference in
European Parliament, a Nobel pees Price, Laura At, Alexandra matvichuk Taira.
So we tried to connect Ukrainian civil society that are
(13:59):
in Ukrain with civil society that are here, with people,
with politicians so that they get the first hand experience
and first hand let's say, yeah, the real, the truth
from people who suffer, who directly either suffer from war
or who can give me a witness of those suffering.
(14:23):
Like in a few weeks the Ukrainian veterans are coming
here to participate in faty kilometers Brussels, and we are
arranging meetings of the veterans with politicians, with the presidents
of European institutions, with Belgian bureaucrats so that they don't
forget that the war is still going on. And it's
(14:44):
not only it's not only about the war as such,
but it also is about integration of people who have
been to the front line who have to go back
into the society, people who are injured who have to
be included, and the infrastructure have to be ready for them.
So it's the whole support of rebuilding of Ukraine after
(15:07):
our victory. And I say victory because there is no
other there's no other choice for Ukraine only to win
this war, because if Ukraine doesn't win, it will cease existing. Yes,
so we are supported by many people volunteers. We also
have members of organizations who pay contribution, who pay fees
(15:29):
and the organization is supported currently by the foundation of
Mila Kuni is an Ashton Kutcher. It's a Hollywood couple
that decided this year to provide funds for our structural work,
so for our employees and for our offices, because we
need to organize all that. We need some employees and
(15:50):
space to I mean the space that was given by
the presidents is being used by all civies society organizations,
but we need our own, so we have to pay
for the rent.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
It's wonderful how all the volunteers and people like interested
and wanting to help directly came to you with all
the consequences that may.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Have a risk.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
So Antonilla, how do you see the synergy between all
those work and broader EU efforts in supporting city society
and democratic values in Ukraine.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
Yes, of course, the future development since now from now
on in Ukraine requests a massive support from the EU
and there are many ways of doing this. So Alda
says that somehow we cannot help them with weapons so
(16:53):
that they desperately need at the moment, but we can
do many other things. And Alda is supporting this pass
where we are also keeping an high on the agenda
of the European communities, the work in the fight and
(17:17):
the support to Ukraine. So local democracy agencies are engaging
thousands of partners in Europe. It's local governments. For example,
tomorrow we bring the municipal council of Mariopol in exile
and we bring them to Verona and Brescia, and we
(17:40):
are going to talk with European citizens about what happened
to them and why it's important to support them and
why it's not a closed story. And you know, we
are going to speak and help them in the future.
So we are also creating partnership. So Alda is curing
(18:01):
a long term friendship and partnership because we know that's
the support to democracy. It's now and it's going to
be needed in the future as well. Because Alda is
the experience of the Balkans and many other places that
went through the war. So there is an effort to
(18:25):
be made during the war and there is an effort
also to stabilize after the war whatever happens. So for example,
you know, Marta, many people come to me, and I
am sure they come to you and they ask you,
so what will happen. You know, a kome vain questastory. Yeah,
(18:48):
how will this story end? And what I say is
I don't know yet, But the life goes on in
Ukraine now, so we need in any case to support them.
There is whatever happens. Of course, we are fighting for
victory and we are fighting for the survival. But life
(19:13):
goes on. You cannot wait the end of the war
for doing something. And I have the same narrative to
local governments. I don't know what to do, but yes,
but we have to wait, et cetera. But life goes
on now. People go to school, people have to work,
people have to live and have a decent life. Or
(19:38):
for example, many people say yeah, but think we are reconstructing. Yeah,
we are reconstructing now because if you don't have a
road to go to your village or you don't have
the access to the city, how can the city survive.
So I think that ALDA is securing support and friendship
from European partners. We are focusing on local communities. We
(20:00):
are focusing on also creating ties between local communities, so
Ukrainians and Europeans and also investigating Marta how to create
social collision in their own Ukrainian society. For example, I've
been to Wnitza two weeks ago, and Invenitza. We are
(20:22):
also working both with local governments and civil society to
also create a strong social cohesion there together with us,
so that it is even more resilient, you know, and
they are able to survive this difficult moment. So Alda
is there to stay. We have celebrated thirty years of
(20:45):
presence in the Vicans. So Alda is not a project.
It's a long term partner and we know that we
will have to navigate difficult and troubled waters now and
in the future. So this long and as in Italian,
(21:06):
we will say aslutamente non question the NOOT request owned.
We are supporting these communities and Ukrainians. It's not negotiable,
It's not negotiable. It's not negotiable. Because I think that
(21:26):
we have we saw and very often Marta I present,
I have videos, photos, images. What is my Ukraine? My
Ukraine is full of incredibly brilliant and strong people that
has been resilient, not only in this last two years. Yes,
(21:51):
because many people you know, see, I mean it's two
years work now, it's a very long war started in
two thousand and fourteen and even before. It's a very
long fight. So I think that I also always present
what is my Ukraine with people, faces, names, places, and
(22:14):
we need to support the European aspiration. So ALDA will
be supporting European aspirations and future of Ukraine. There is
no Ukraine, as Martha said, without this, and very likely
there is no Europe without European Ukraine. So we need
to fight together. We will be there assisting with Long
(22:38):
Friendship creating ties Martha. So it's Universities of Bresia working
with the University of Mariopol is the Association from Friends
working with the Association You Associations from hepro is the
Polish partners working with the other partners in Ukraine. So
(23:00):
Long Friendship community based organization supposed to local democracy, support
to genuine local democracy and also to make sure that
this fight is not forgotten in Europe because we I mean,
you know, people are quickly tired, but they are not tired,
(23:26):
so how can we be tired ourselfs? So we need
to support the fights. We need to make visible and
I will conclude why it is so important and to
keep high the point in the agenda of Europeans, because Martha,
(23:50):
the accession process is here in resence, but also in
every corner of Europe. We need to explain to Spanish people,
to make all these people, to Portuguese people why the
Ukrainian part is important for us and other is also
this added value that we go into the remote angles
(24:11):
of Europe to talk about this so many ways where
Ada will be supporting this goes. I think that Europeans
are valorizing the way we do it and the possibility
to support local communities in this bilateral relationship very concrete.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Thank you very much, and also to our listeners. You
will find all the links to the Flagship Initiative and
any other useful link in the description of the episode,
so that you don't miss on any of the information
we are giving out. Marta. With the recent development in
new Enlargement including the opening of negotiations with Ukraine, Moldova
and others, how do you perceive the current stages of
(24:54):
European integration efforts in Ukraine and what should be the
role of the European parlia this in your opinion?
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Well, Ukraine is doing very well on the weight or
to integration, but considering that the economy is in stagnationian
because of the war. All the economy is basically war economy.
And we waited very long for the aid agreement from
the US, and it was also not so easy to
get the aid that was promised by the best we
(25:25):
only got, I mean, Ukraine only got fifty percent of
the aid that was promised. But still the administration and
people are doing their best to on the way to
become a member of the EU. Yet recently there was
a request from Ukraine to the Council of Europe to.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
Temporarily and not.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Apply the Convention and human rights to certain rights because
of the curfew because of the war. And honestly, as
a human rights specialist, I'm a bit.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
Worried about that.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
I understand that Ukraine has right to sort of not
withdraw from the Convention but temporarily not applied to certain rights,
but for me, as a Ukrainian activists abroad, it would
be harder to explain to people that Ukraine is fighting
for human rights and democracy and rule of law if
(26:31):
Ukraine itself is not applying those human rights protection to
its people. I mean, it's very difficult balance between defense
and human rights, but I have I have reservations here
for me, it's I am afraid that once the right
(26:51):
as rights are given away or the governments take them,
it would be very hard to get it back. Then
what are we fighting for and the human rights is
it's a compulsory criterion to become a member of European Union.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Yes, indeed, thank you very much. Next question, maybe you
already answered both of you, but if you have something
to add, feel free of course. Like looking ahead, what
are your hopes and aspirations for the future of Ukraine's
integration into the European community.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
I think that the process is a watershed for all
of us. There is also an added value of the
process of accession of Ukraine and Moldova at this stage
we can also mention them to the EU, is that
(27:47):
they will push us to change our internal rules. So
it's like this, you know, the reality pushes the administration,
reality pushes politics, and the EU has already made enormous
(28:10):
jumps throughout these two years because of the reality. First
was the COVID and we created instruments that were absolutely
out of questions for seventy years. And actually the big
(28:31):
enlargement that we celebrated a few days ago in two
thousand and four, was also the result of the reality
of things, the end of the Berlin Wall and the
renification of Germany. So it was this kind of cataclysm
that changes Europe. So the war in Ukraine is a cataclism.
(28:52):
People pretend to live a normal life, but it's not
like this. There is an issue at stake which is rumous,
and maybe this cataclysm has also an added value for
creating another Europe, more functional, bigger and strong. So, of
(29:16):
course my words may look too ambitious and may fright
frighten the house. Here we are sitting in Brussels, and
I'm think put pointing my fingers to to Red La Commission,
et cetera, that they don't like cataclysm.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Yes, but.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
The reality is so big that maybe the the added value,
if there is an added value in a catastrophe like
what they are experiencing in Ukraine, is that they will
push us to to discover what we want to be
in this world. So do we want to really be
(30:00):
European union that is promoting democracy, protecting democracy, protecting human rights,
protecting our values. Also for those who who are part
of our union, our neighbors, so it's something that is
going to push us also in this direction. I'm curious
(30:21):
to see how it's going to go. We want to
be part of this discussion. Ada is the ambition of
as promote Ukraine, both with acts and with political actions.
We want to be part of it, and this is
what we wanted to do with our members. We are
going to mobilize our constituency. All that is big now
(30:42):
yeah to a company, the changes of the world. So
we have the ambitions that this terrible situation can also
change the face of destiny and destiny of Europe in
the right direction.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
I wish that more people in Europe, both who were
born here who came here realize what Europe gives them.
That's a gift to have. You said that when we talked.
Still it was not required that it's a gift you
is a gift. It is here for Brussels, but it
(31:21):
is gifts for Europe as well, because you protect the
structure and the way it is made. It protects us
from war, but it also gives us full freedom for
development of our talents, our personalities. It gives us opportunities
and it's only to grasp the to understand those opportunities
(31:44):
and yeah, to take these chances that Europe provides. Ukrainians
have understood it long ago and they are fighting for this,
but they still are not part of the system. And
Europeans have it. Europeans, the EU, they have it, but
they don't really understand what they have. And that's that
bity that I feel, and I would like to bridge it.
(32:08):
I just don't know how, So hopefully that our organizations
in that all the promote Ukraine and organizations alike, would
be able to open eyes to people who still did
not understand how they can use the best out of
the EU.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Thank you very much, And to close the episode, I
usually like to ask my guests a brief ending question,
which is if there's any message or final takeaway you
would like to share with our listeners before we close.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
I will maybe say so I give the very very
last words to Martha. The final word is, of course,
let's hope that the European Parliament election, which is coming
in a month from now, will size the momentum. It's
time for all of us size the momentum, because if
(33:02):
we don't do it, others will do it for us.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
I would like to finish with the words that I
heard from young Ukrainians in Odessa two months ago. I
went there with the Belgian journalists and they were running
through this and interviewing youth, and all of them, not
knowing each other and not hearing each other, said one thing.
(33:27):
When the journalists ask them, what would you like to
tell the European youth, they said, leave now, enjoy the
life right now, today, this hour, because you don't know
whether tomorrow you will live. That's the message that I
would pass here also to everyone who listens. Leave now,
(33:48):
but make sure that you provide this life also for
future generations, that you participate in building this life proactively
in a European way.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
Thank you very much, very strong words and our episode
with so as we come to the end of the episode,
I want really to extend my sincere thanks to both
our guests, anton A leaen Marta for sharing their invaluable
insights and expertise on the enlargement process, the developments in
Ukraine and all that we've talked about. Your perspectives really
(34:25):
shed light on crucial issues shape in the future of
democracy and governance in Europe. The discussions have highlighted the
complexities the nuances of the enlargement in the Eastern Region,
emphasizing the importance of collaboration, resilience, democratic values, especially in
(34:46):
fostering positive change. So it's clear that initiatives like Aldo's
flagship initiative in Ukraine play a crucial role in supporting
countries on their journey towards European integration and promoting peace
and stability in the region. And to our listeners, thank
you for joining us on this journey of exploration and discovery.
(35:09):
We hope today's episode has provided insights also for you
as park meaningful conversations and remember that your engagement and
your support are essential in driving positive change in our
communities and beyond. So you will find, as I said,
all usual links in the description of the episode. Stay
(35:31):
tuned for more thought provoking discussions on democracy in future
episodes of ALDA podcast Shades of Democracy Don't forget. You
can find ALDA podcasts on Spotify, Spreaker, Google Podcasts, I Podcasts,
and of course on Alda's website. Until next time, stay engaged,
stay informed, and continue to play an active role in
(35:54):
shape in the future of democracy.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
Conta
Hello everyone, and welcome to a new insightful episode of
ALDA podcast Shades of Democracy. I'm an als Needi from
the communications team of ALDA and I will be your
host today. We have a very interesting episode ahead discussing
European Union enlargement and developments in Ukraine. With recent milestones
in new Ukraine relations and ongoing efforts to expand the
(00:42):
European community, there's much to explore and understand. Joining us
today are esteem guests who bring valuable insights into these topics.
Antonella Almarbida, ALDA Secretary General, will provide experts, analysis and
shed light on Alda's role in supporting democratic values in
the region. We're also joined by Marta Barandi, founder of
(01:05):
Promote Ukraine and a prominent figure in Belgian politics, who
will share her perspectives on the situation in Ukraine and
its links with the EU. So without lingering more, let's
get into the discussion itself and gain valuable knowledge from
our guests. Thank you both of you for being with
me today and it's really a pleasure to have you
with us today. Dear Martha, I will start with you. You've
(01:28):
founded some ten years ago Promote Ukraine a prominent ango
which received the European Citizens Price twenty twenty two from
the European Parliament, and it received it for its massive
support of Ukraine. Tell us more about you, your background,
how you came to become a candidate for the elections.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Thank you, thank you for inviting for this podcast. I
started in the promote Ukraine ten years ago when Russia
occupied Krainia. When Yuromelan started, I wanted to give more
information to people about what's happening in Ukraine because the
information that people were receiving here was given to them
through the filter.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Of Russian news.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
So I wanted to make sure that people get the
Ukrainian perspective of let's say, perspective of Ukrainian people. I
wanted this, I felt it was my passion a all
dissertation basically on the interest of people. I wanted the
interest of people to be in the core of any
politics or geopolitics. And it goes back to actually to
(02:32):
two thousand or two thousand and four. I started my
studies in two thousands in Viv in Ukraine, and in
two thousand and four the revolution Orange Revolution happened in Ukraine,
and that is when I felt that democracy was under
threat and I went with my father to the Maidan.
It was also this revolution was done in Madwan and
(02:52):
we were fighting for the correct results of the election,
and actually the people of Ukraine won back then, not Yanokovich,
but Yushchenkov was elected as a president. Luckily that revolution
was done without any bullet, without any any any blood shed.
(03:13):
But I remember when I exited the door of my house,
I was twenty years old back then. My mom told me,
I know that anything can happen, but I understand that
he must go. And I went from relief to Kiev,
not knowing whether Yanakovich was going to use bullet bullets
(03:35):
to shoot people during that time. So that was my
passion for interests of the people, interests of the country
of Ukraine to become democratic. But all my professional background
goes back also to Austria and Germany where I studied
(03:55):
European law, human rights law and international law. So that's
all in connected my passion and my studies professional life.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Thank you very much for your answer. Very interesting. You
need to know how all of this started and where
it came from. Antonella, You, as I said, are Secretary
General of ALDA, the European Association for Local Democracy, which
has been working for more than ten years in Ukraine
on good governance and citizen participation. Can you tell us
(04:25):
a bit more about what the full scale invasion has
changed for ALDA and for all ALDER members.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Yes, so hello everyone, I'm very pleased to be here
also with Martha, very honored by her presence in our podcast. Yes,
ALDA started to work in twenty twelve because we were
part of the development of local democracy in Eastern partnership
(04:55):
countries and ALDA started working also with the Council Europe
where when these countries from Eastern Europe joined the Council
of Europe and they had to promote local democracy. So
it was in this path of strengthening local governments, new mayors,
new elections. So of course we worked in all the countries,
(05:18):
and not only in Ukraine. We started also in thousand
Caucuses and then also as I said in twenty twelve
in Ukraine, we established many programs so with CSOs with
local governments to a company somehow the strengthening of local communities.
And in this path we used our instruments, which are
(05:42):
the local democracy agencies. Those are platforms of local authorities,
regional authorities and civil society working together in a certain place,
engaging also European partners. So we were approached by Lower
Silesia Poland to open local Democracy Agency at that time
(06:02):
in Nipropetrovsk which now is Nepro as a city, and
we started our work in twenty twelve, twenty and thirteen,
and then we had to stop the process because of
the development unfortunate in Ukraine and in Eastern Ukraine, and
we opened the Local Democracy Agency one year later in
(06:25):
twenty fifteen. And then in Nepro with our European partners,
we developed some projects for civil society and with local governments,
and we worked with Nipropetrovsk region. We started also to
investigate other ways and other places in this big country,
because something that the European side, the eoside does not
(06:47):
entirely visualize is our Ukraine is big, this is out
of our European scale. We investigated to open an a
DA in Odessa, and then Odessa was not successful at
that time, and the mayor of Gdansk asked us to
consider either Mikolaiv or Mariopol. So the Gdansk asked us
(07:13):
to accompany their international corporation in Ukraine and the mayor
of Gdance, who unfortunately was assassinated in two thousand and seventeen,
Pavel Adamovich. He called me, he said, what do you
think if we try something in Mariopol. I look at
the map and I said, oh my god, over there,
(07:37):
and he said, look, yes, there is a brilliant mayor,
absolutely interesting people. So we went down to Mariopol and
started working there. It was a brilliant initiative, absolutely European oriented,
absolutely modern an interesting stivities, and we started there in
(08:01):
twenty seventeen. Of course, the full scale invasion changed everything
for our work in Ukraine, but I would say for
our organization as a whole. In twenty twenty two, we
tried to first to take care of our colleagues. They
(08:23):
were both in Nepro and did Mariopol, so we tried
to put them in safe places and to accompany them.
The LDA survived twenty twenty two. We continue to support
our colleagues from Mariopol while they were living. The place
and where they were located in Ukraine further each changed.
(08:47):
Because of course we have reoriented our work. We also
have provided humanitarian helps through our members, so basically since
twenty twenty two who we oriented our initiative in Ukraine
in three ways. One was humanitarian support, even though ALDA
(09:08):
is not a humanitarian organization, but we brought the support
of our members through our LDAs and our contacts, and
we brought roughly one hundred and fifty thousand euro to
Ukraine and more to help sanitary hittings and all what
they needed in Odessa, in hepro and for our colleagues
(09:30):
in the Yama organization. Then we did also true communication
because we also advocate, We also informed. We also took
part in many organizations and events telling the people what
is happening and why it's important to support Ukraine and
why No, we didn't do anything to provoke Russia, and
(09:56):
no it's not the fault of NATO, and no it's
not this you know. So we took a stand both
politically and as an organization to support Ukraine. And the
third one was to start a flagship initiative to support
the opening of new LDAs. So now we have opened
an DA you know Dessa in twenty twenty three. We
(10:16):
are in the past of opening new offices, so it
means engaging more European partners and we want to continue
in this and we have now a team in Ukraine
and we are really putting a flagship on the opening
of the LDAs. So I think it's changed a lot.
It strengthened our motivation to help Ukrainians and to raise
(10:41):
the importance of their fights for their countries and for
whole Europe.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Actually, this gives a very clear timeline of all Alda's
work in Ukraine since day one. Mart The next question
is for you, Promote Ukraine has been actively involved in
various initiatives to support Ukraine during this challenge in times,
can you share some of the key initiatives or projects
that Promote Ukraine has undertaken to promote democracy, humor, rights
(11:10):
and freedom in Ukraine and maybe also tell us about
a little bit more about who the members, volunteers supporters
of Promote Ukraine do, how do they contribute to your activities? Indeed, yes,
so we have.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Now when the Full Skill Envisions started, we immediately grew
from five people to one hundred fifty people. We had
one hundred fifty volu tiers overnight. I remember we didn't
have office before. And on the twenty fifth of February
twenty twenty two, I wrote to many, many politicians, business
(11:49):
owners a letter of requests to provide us at a space,
because on twenty four to February that on twenty third,
let's say, we were still five people, but in twenty
fifth I saw one hundred fifty and I realized that
we have to coordinate it somehow with people, but also
with journalists, because I started receiving thousands of calls a weekly,
if not daily, and.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
We didn't sleep. All our people didn't sleep.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
We had to organize demonstrations, We had to talk to journalists,
We had to talk to politicians, to municipalities who didn't
know what to do. They started all calling us and
asking how do we receive Ukrainian refugees? Do you already
have contacts with the Ukrainian refugees and so on? So
we had to have a space, and I remember I
wrote a letter also Trobarta Matzla, the President of European Parliament,
(12:33):
asking for a space somewhere near European Parliament that could
be opened twenty four to seven, and she provided us
at Station Europe. So after two weeks she gave Station
Europe to promote Ukraine. For the purposes of Ukrainian civil society,
for which I.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Am very grateful.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
And then after one month's Lista Schwenk, who was president
of European Clomics Social Commedia on that time also provided
a space for Ukrainian CEVIL Society. So now Ukrainian CVIL
Society has two bases when it's in Station Europe and
one in EU European Economic Social Committee for organizing events,
coordinating for helping refugees and so on. And our activities
(13:13):
also grew from I don't know, we had two activities
now we have eight, and so humanitarian aid was one
of those that was complimentary. We started sending help to
Ukraine to fundraise, to advocate for Ukrainian interests in the Council,
(13:35):
I mean European Council, in the European Commission. We organized
more than two hundred demonstrations up toil now, and yeah,
we organized conferences. We brought here for a conference in
European Parliament, a Nobel pees Price, Laura At, Alexandra matvichuk Taira.
So we tried to connect Ukrainian civil society that are
(13:59):
in Ukrain with civil society that are here, with people,
with politicians so that they get the first hand experience
and first hand let's say, yeah, the real, the truth
from people who suffer, who directly either suffer from war
or who can give me a witness of those suffering.
(14:23):
Like in a few weeks the Ukrainian veterans are coming
here to participate in faty kilometers Brussels, and we are
arranging meetings of the veterans with politicians, with the presidents
of European institutions, with Belgian bureaucrats so that they don't
forget that the war is still going on. And it's
(14:44):
not only it's not only about the war as such,
but it also is about integration of people who have
been to the front line who have to go back
into the society, people who are injured who have to
be included, and the infrastructure have to be ready for them.
So it's the whole support of rebuilding of Ukraine after
(15:07):
our victory. And I say victory because there is no
other there's no other choice for Ukraine only to win
this war, because if Ukraine doesn't win, it will cease existing. Yes,
so we are supported by many people volunteers. We also
have members of organizations who pay contribution, who pay fees
(15:29):
and the organization is supported currently by the foundation of
Mila Kuni is an Ashton Kutcher. It's a Hollywood couple
that decided this year to provide funds for our structural work,
so for our employees and for our offices, because we
need to organize all that. We need some employees and
(15:50):
space to I mean the space that was given by
the presidents is being used by all civies society organizations,
but we need our own, so we have to pay
for the rent.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
It's wonderful how all the volunteers and people like interested
and wanting to help directly came to you with all
the consequences that may.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Have a risk.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
So Antonilla, how do you see the synergy between all
those work and broader EU efforts in supporting city society
and democratic values in Ukraine.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
Yes, of course, the future development since now from now
on in Ukraine requests a massive support from the EU
and there are many ways of doing this. So Alda
says that somehow we cannot help them with weapons so
(16:53):
that they desperately need at the moment, but we can
do many other things. And Alda is supporting this pass
where we are also keeping an high on the agenda
of the European communities, the work in the fight and
(17:17):
the support to Ukraine. So local democracy agencies are engaging
thousands of partners in Europe. It's local governments. For example,
tomorrow we bring the municipal council of Mariopol in exile
and we bring them to Verona and Brescia, and we
(17:40):
are going to talk with European citizens about what happened
to them and why it's important to support them and
why it's not a closed story. And you know, we
are going to speak and help them in the future.
So we are also creating partnership. So Alda is curing
(18:01):
a long term friendship and partnership because we know that's
the support to democracy. It's now and it's going to
be needed in the future as well. Because Alda is
the experience of the Balkans and many other places that
went through the war. So there is an effort to
(18:25):
be made during the war and there is an effort
also to stabilize after the war whatever happens. So for example,
you know, Marta, many people come to me, and I
am sure they come to you and they ask you,
so what will happen. You know, a kome vain questastory. Yeah,
(18:48):
how will this story end? And what I say is
I don't know yet, But the life goes on in
Ukraine now, so we need in any case to support them.
There is whatever happens. Of course, we are fighting for
victory and we are fighting for the survival. But life
(19:13):
goes on. You cannot wait the end of the war
for doing something. And I have the same narrative to
local governments. I don't know what to do, but yes,
but we have to wait, et cetera. But life goes
on now. People go to school, people have to work,
people have to live and have a decent life. Or
(19:38):
for example, many people say yeah, but think we are reconstructing. Yeah,
we are reconstructing now because if you don't have a
road to go to your village or you don't have
the access to the city, how can the city survive.
So I think that ALDA is securing support and friendship
from European partners. We are focusing on local communities. We
(20:00):
are focusing on also creating ties between local communities, so
Ukrainians and Europeans and also investigating Marta how to create
social collision in their own Ukrainian society. For example, I've
been to Wnitza two weeks ago, and Invenitza. We are
(20:22):
also working both with local governments and civil society to
also create a strong social cohesion there together with us,
so that it is even more resilient, you know, and
they are able to survive this difficult moment. So Alda
is there to stay. We have celebrated thirty years of
(20:45):
presence in the Vicans. So Alda is not a project.
It's a long term partner and we know that we
will have to navigate difficult and troubled waters now and
in the future. So this long and as in Italian,
(21:06):
we will say aslutamente non question the NOOT request owned.
We are supporting these communities and Ukrainians. It's not negotiable,
It's not negotiable. It's not negotiable. Because I think that
(21:26):
we have we saw and very often Marta I present,
I have videos, photos, images. What is my Ukraine? My
Ukraine is full of incredibly brilliant and strong people that
has been resilient, not only in this last two years. Yes,
(21:51):
because many people you know, see, I mean it's two
years work now, it's a very long war started in
two thousand and fourteen and even before. It's a very
long fight. So I think that I also always present
what is my Ukraine with people, faces, names, places, and
(22:14):
we need to support the European aspiration. So ALDA will
be supporting European aspirations and future of Ukraine. There is
no Ukraine, as Martha said, without this, and very likely
there is no Europe without European Ukraine. So we need
to fight together. We will be there assisting with Long
(22:38):
Friendship creating ties Martha. So it's Universities of Bresia working
with the University of Mariopol is the Association from Friends
working with the Association You Associations from hepro is the
Polish partners working with the other partners in Ukraine. So
(23:00):
Long Friendship community based organization supposed to local democracy, support
to genuine local democracy and also to make sure that
this fight is not forgotten in Europe because we I mean,
you know, people are quickly tired, but they are not tired,
(23:26):
so how can we be tired ourselfs? So we need
to support the fights. We need to make visible and
I will conclude why it is so important and to
keep high the point in the agenda of Europeans, because Martha,
(23:50):
the accession process is here in resence, but also in
every corner of Europe. We need to explain to Spanish people,
to make all these people, to Portuguese people why the
Ukrainian part is important for us and other is also
this added value that we go into the remote angles
(24:11):
of Europe to talk about this so many ways where
Ada will be supporting this goes. I think that Europeans
are valorizing the way we do it and the possibility
to support local communities in this bilateral relationship very concrete.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Thank you very much, and also to our listeners. You
will find all the links to the Flagship Initiative and
any other useful link in the description of the episode,
so that you don't miss on any of the information
we are giving out. Marta. With the recent development in
new Enlargement including the opening of negotiations with Ukraine, Moldova
and others, how do you perceive the current stages of
(24:54):
European integration efforts in Ukraine and what should be the
role of the European parlia this in your opinion?
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Well, Ukraine is doing very well on the weight or
to integration, but considering that the economy is in stagnationian
because of the war. All the economy is basically war economy.
And we waited very long for the aid agreement from
the US, and it was also not so easy to
get the aid that was promised by the best we
(25:25):
only got, I mean, Ukraine only got fifty percent of
the aid that was promised. But still the administration and
people are doing their best to on the way to
become a member of the EU. Yet recently there was
a request from Ukraine to the Council of Europe to.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
Temporarily and not.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Apply the Convention and human rights to certain rights because
of the curfew because of the war. And honestly, as
a human rights specialist, I'm a bit.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
Worried about that.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
I understand that Ukraine has right to sort of not
withdraw from the Convention but temporarily not applied to certain rights,
but for me, as a Ukrainian activists abroad, it would
be harder to explain to people that Ukraine is fighting
for human rights and democracy and rule of law if
(26:31):
Ukraine itself is not applying those human rights protection to
its people. I mean, it's very difficult balance between defense
and human rights, but I have I have reservations here
for me, it's I am afraid that once the right
(26:51):
as rights are given away or the governments take them,
it would be very hard to get it back. Then
what are we fighting for and the human rights is
it's a compulsory criterion to become a member of European Union.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Yes, indeed, thank you very much. Next question, maybe you
already answered both of you, but if you have something
to add, feel free of course. Like looking ahead, what
are your hopes and aspirations for the future of Ukraine's
integration into the European community.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
I think that the process is a watershed for all
of us. There is also an added value of the
process of accession of Ukraine and Moldova at this stage
we can also mention them to the EU, is that
(27:47):
they will push us to change our internal rules. So
it's like this, you know, the reality pushes the administration,
reality pushes politics, and the EU has already made enormous
(28:10):
jumps throughout these two years because of the reality. First
was the COVID and we created instruments that were absolutely
out of questions for seventy years. And actually the big
(28:31):
enlargement that we celebrated a few days ago in two
thousand and four, was also the result of the reality
of things, the end of the Berlin Wall and the
renification of Germany. So it was this kind of cataclysm
that changes Europe. So the war in Ukraine is a cataclism.
(28:52):
People pretend to live a normal life, but it's not
like this. There is an issue at stake which is rumous,
and maybe this cataclysm has also an added value for
creating another Europe, more functional, bigger and strong. So, of
(29:16):
course my words may look too ambitious and may fright
frighten the house. Here we are sitting in Brussels, and
I'm think put pointing my fingers to to Red La Commission,
et cetera, that they don't like cataclysm.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Yes, but.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
The reality is so big that maybe the the added value,
if there is an added value in a catastrophe like
what they are experiencing in Ukraine, is that they will
push us to to discover what we want to be
in this world. So do we want to really be
(30:00):
European union that is promoting democracy, protecting democracy, protecting human rights,
protecting our values. Also for those who who are part
of our union, our neighbors, so it's something that is
going to push us also in this direction. I'm curious
(30:21):
to see how it's going to go. We want to
be part of this discussion. Ada is the ambition of
as promote Ukraine, both with acts and with political actions.
We want to be part of it, and this is
what we wanted to do with our members. We are
going to mobilize our constituency. All that is big now
(30:42):
yeah to a company, the changes of the world. So
we have the ambitions that this terrible situation can also
change the face of destiny and destiny of Europe in
the right direction.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
I wish that more people in Europe, both who were
born here who came here realize what Europe gives them.
That's a gift to have. You said that when we talked.
Still it was not required that it's a gift you
is a gift. It is here for Brussels, but it
(31:21):
is gifts for Europe as well, because you protect the
structure and the way it is made. It protects us
from war, but it also gives us full freedom for
development of our talents, our personalities. It gives us opportunities
and it's only to grasp the to understand those opportunities
(31:44):
and yeah, to take these chances that Europe provides. Ukrainians
have understood it long ago and they are fighting for this,
but they still are not part of the system. And
Europeans have it. Europeans, the EU, they have it, but
they don't really understand what they have. And that's that
bity that I feel, and I would like to bridge it.
(32:08):
I just don't know how, So hopefully that our organizations
in that all the promote Ukraine and organizations alike, would
be able to open eyes to people who still did
not understand how they can use the best out of
the EU.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Thank you very much, And to close the episode, I
usually like to ask my guests a brief ending question,
which is if there's any message or final takeaway you
would like to share with our listeners before we close.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
I will maybe say so I give the very very
last words to Martha. The final word is, of course,
let's hope that the European Parliament election, which is coming
in a month from now, will size the momentum. It's
time for all of us size the momentum, because if
(33:02):
we don't do it, others will do it for us.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
I would like to finish with the words that I
heard from young Ukrainians in Odessa two months ago. I
went there with the Belgian journalists and they were running
through this and interviewing youth, and all of them, not
knowing each other and not hearing each other, said one thing.
(33:27):
When the journalists ask them, what would you like to
tell the European youth, they said, leave now, enjoy the
life right now, today, this hour, because you don't know
whether tomorrow you will live. That's the message that I
would pass here also to everyone who listens. Leave now,
(33:48):
but make sure that you provide this life also for
future generations, that you participate in building this life proactively
in a European way.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
Thank you very much, very strong words and our episode
with so as we come to the end of the episode,
I want really to extend my sincere thanks to both
our guests, anton A leaen Marta for sharing their invaluable
insights and expertise on the enlargement process, the developments in
Ukraine and all that we've talked about. Your perspectives really
(34:25):
shed light on crucial issues shape in the future of
democracy and governance in Europe. The discussions have highlighted the
complexities the nuances of the enlargement in the Eastern Region,
emphasizing the importance of collaboration, resilience, democratic values, especially in
(34:46):
fostering positive change. So it's clear that initiatives like Aldo's
flagship initiative in Ukraine play a crucial role in supporting
countries on their journey towards European integration and promoting peace
and stability in the region. And to our listeners, thank
you for joining us on this journey of exploration and discovery.
(35:09):
We hope today's episode has provided insights also for you
as park meaningful conversations and remember that your engagement and
your support are essential in driving positive change in our
communities and beyond. So you will find, as I said,
all usual links in the description of the episode. Stay
(35:31):
tuned for more thought provoking discussions on democracy in future
episodes of ALDA podcast Shades of Democracy Don't forget. You
can find ALDA podcasts on Spotify, Spreaker, Google Podcasts, I Podcasts,
and of course on Alda's website. Until next time, stay engaged,
stay informed, and continue to play an active role in
(35:54):
shape in the future of democracy.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
Conta
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