December 20, 2024 • 36 mins
Join us in this episode of the ALDA Podcast Shades of Democracy as we reflect on the results of the 2024 EU elections and their implications for the future of European democracy.
We’re joined by MEP Daniel Freund and Adrien Licha, who will share their thoughts on how citizens can get involved, how young people can participate, and how civil society can help connect institutions with the public. This episode provides a deep look at how Europe can use the energy from the elections to create a stronger democratic future.
Don’t miss this important conversation about what we’ve learned and what needs to be done next for the European Union!
Useful links:
ALDA European Elections 2024 Campaign ➡️ https://www.alda-europe.eu/eu-elections-2024/
TALE Project ➡️ https://www.alda-europe.eu/tale-take-the-lead-in-the-eu-elections/
CSE Elections Campaign ➡️https://civilsocietyforeu.eu/
We’re joined by MEP Daniel Freund and Adrien Licha, who will share their thoughts on how citizens can get involved, how young people can participate, and how civil society can help connect institutions with the public. This episode provides a deep look at how Europe can use the energy from the elections to create a stronger democratic future.
Don’t miss this important conversation about what we’ve learned and what needs to be done next for the European Union!
Useful links:
ALDA European Elections 2024 Campaign ➡️ https://www.alda-europe.eu/eu-elections-2024/
TALE Project ➡️ https://www.alda-europe.eu/tale-take-the-lead-in-the-eu-elections/
CSE Elections Campaign ➡️https://civilsocietyforeu.eu/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Hello, and welcome to a new episode of the ALDA
podcast Shapes of Democracy. I am Manal Snedy, your host
from the Alder Communications team. In today's episode, we will
be reflecting on the twenty twenty four YOU elections, the
results and diving into key questions around citizen engagement, youth
participation and the challenges ahead for European democracy. We will
(00:46):
also discuss the role of civil society in keeping institutions
connected to the needs of citizens and explore communication strategies
that shape these elections. Our first guest is Daniel Point,
member of the europe In Parliament within the Party of
the Queen's EFA, and joining us alongside is Adria Lisha
(01:07):
head of Secretariat at ALDA as well as coordinator of
all those activities in Eastern Partnership countries and Central Asia.
Welcome Danielle and Adrian, and it's a pleasure to have
you with us today.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Thanks for having us.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
So without further ado, let's get started with the first
question that I will post to both of you. So,
reflecting on the twenty twenty four EU elections, how effective
do you think the campaigns of civil society and or
political parties were in fostering citizen engagement and increasing the
voter turnout, and were there any standout strategies or moments
(01:45):
that had a particularly strong impact.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Well, I would say we have seen voter turnout slightly up.
How much this was down to individual campaigns, you don't
fully know. It could also be you know that polarization,
for example, has has driven to some extent voter turnout.
(02:10):
That particularly parties on the extreme right have managed to
mobilize people that might not have voted in in previous elections.
So you might argue that to some degree, you know,
this is how democracy works. This, uh, you know, good,
good for those parties, But obviously, from my point of
(02:32):
view for for European democracy, also for the for the
future of citizen participation and strengthening European democracy, I'm not
convinced yet that that will only have positive results.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
I would say, yes, I I do agree with this
first assessment. I would say to complete a little bit
that maybe the way to ask the question is to
understand what was the main target of political parties and CSOs,
because we saw in many platforms that in the COSO
(03:11):
world at least the main target was not necessarily to
increase the turnout, but whether to address politicians candidates and
to convince them to make a pledge and support civil society.
So in this regard, I would say that the civil
society organization have been rather effective in doing so. Just
(03:33):
to mention one of this campaign, I would refer to
the one Civil Society Europe and the social Platform started
that gathered more than three hundred candidate MEPs and that
would allow us to continue capitalize on the pledges that
were made during this campaign, so finding some allies in
(03:56):
the Parliament in this new and date. So from this perspective,
I would say they have been effective. Then when it
comes to the turnout there again I would say a
civil society organization have been certainly efficient. The situation is
certainly not satisfactory because despite a slight improvement, we can
(04:23):
see that there are countries where the turnout is very
low and questioning the very sense of the participatory, the
participation in representative democracy. So this is still challenging and
not satisfactory. But if we compare it with the shrinking
(04:44):
space for civil society and the level of resources that
are available for this civil society organization to campaign, I
would say that the civil society has been deploying a
lot of efforts, and we can also try to point
(05:05):
out another factor, which is what would have been the
situation if these efforts weren't deployed. So I think this
is something we have to raise here when we assess
a little bit what was going on. And maybe, yeah,
the assumption on our side is that we are here
(05:26):
to protect and defend, to continue to promote, and if
not having results in advancing the number of voters, at
least we are keeping it in a reasonable way.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Thanks to both of you for your answers. Indeed, I
can say that the higher voture turn out is a
bitter sweet result, because yes it's higher, but of course
the composition of these voters foods indeed is a little
bit what leaves us deceived. And Adrian, you were just
(06:05):
talking about how civil society organizations like ALDA also play
a vital role in bridging the gap between institutions and citizens.
So I would like to ask you, in your view,
how can civil society ensure the new European Commission remains
connected to the needs and aspirations of European citizens and
(06:26):
particularly to the ones of the younger generation. And you
can also refer to our tail project that in all
that we developed.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Yes, thank you well. Yet to follow up on this
first input, I would say that the results of this
questions the way civil society is working. So, as a
member of civil society in Europe, ALDA took part in
(06:58):
a project called Interest that was questioning the relationship between
civil society organizations and social movement to understand whole citizens
perceive a civil society organization when they are contesting institutions
or policies that are taken at national or European level.
(07:21):
And it was a very interesting project where we managed
to bring academics and practitioners from civil society organizations and
really we can see that with many organizations that are
relying more and more on institutional funding to do and
(07:41):
implement the activities, the relation and the perception citizen have
of civil society organization is becoming is evolving, to say
the least, and becoming certainly a point we need to
further reflect when it comes to convincing that voting is
(08:06):
something we need to work with. So this is one
part of the thing that as civil society organization we
are still working on and we will continue to assess
for the upcoming mandate. Yeah, when it comes to the
TAIL project, for instance, what what we try to do
(08:26):
is to develop activities in seven countries where we trained
citizens to organize local events. So we had around one
hundred trainees and each of them organized one or two
events in their localities to reach out to their local constituency.
(08:48):
And from this point of view, I think it was
a very nice efforts because at the end of the day,
we organize a very large number of local events in
yea seven trees, and of course we weren't the only
organization doing that type of things. Now, this comes in
(09:11):
a context, as I said, where the space pos civil
society is shrinking, but also where the inequalities are growing
and the social coation is also damaged by these growing inequalities. Now,
(09:32):
the impact it has on representative democracy is very important,
and the polarization that we also saw during the results
of the election is certainly a reflection of that. Or
this is for the time being the assessment that I have.
What I want to say is ALDA, working as a
(09:56):
specialized organization on democracy and more particularly on participatory democracy,
has observed that participatory democracy has been the sort of
medical remedy against the law trust of citizens in two institutions.
And we have seen the multiplication of these different approaches
(10:20):
and we welcome that parsipatory democracy was a bit mainstream first,
but we soon came to realize that despite the constant
improvement of methodologies trying to involve citizens, etc. There were
two main aspects that remained untouched and that prevent us
to secure more trust toward democracy. And one aspect for
(10:44):
me is the clear identification of the type of people
the population we want to get input from on specific policies.
So to say that in the parts battery processes, most
of the time citizens are identified as a unique or
(11:05):
more geneous group. And for us it's not really the
right approach because at the end of the day, statistics
shows that around three percent of the population who is
able to actually participate in the in the consultation would
really do it. So three percent is even lower than
(11:28):
any representative democracy exercise. And often we see that those
with the biggest political capital socio economic capital are the
ones that are motivated to join these processes. In France,
there was a book called the Confiscated Future Lavenir Confiscate
(11:53):
that was published to explain the difficulties and the danger
of such an approach. So this is to say that
it is important to keep in mind that we need
to progress on this aspect and not take even these
innovative methodologies as a miracle solution in a context where unfortunately,
(12:18):
and this is my second point, the impact of PARTICID
battery processes as well as the way the European democracy
is working today have not necessarily delivered on people expectations
on the way we share the resources and these resources
(12:40):
are distributed, because as said inequalities are growing in many
member states and therefore it is more and more difficult
to get a sort of common understanding and having shared
perspective when the population you are asking to vote have
(13:03):
so much different living conditions.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Thank you very much. I can see that of course
we have some positive results, but the challenges are many
and even more than the positive results. As always, so
let's hope also like the new Parliament, this new commissioner
just at the start, so let's hope that the work
on this side, also of the citizens engagement, will be done.
(13:29):
And on your side, Danielle, I wanted to ask you
are European institutions since until we've talked about civil society organizations.
Are these institutions successfully capturing the attention of the younger generations?
And in your opinion, what innovative approaches or strategies could
(13:50):
they adopt to better or connect with and inspire young
people to engage with democracy.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
I mean the question whether we reach young people enough,
I would say yes and no. There are a number
of MPs, you know, very very present on TikTok, on Instagram,
on different social media sides. I think in general, the
Parliament that you institutions are really trying very hard to
(14:20):
reach out in a way that you has sort of
a systematic disadvantage when it comes to communicating what's happening here.
How important you know, you legislation has become for citizens
and if you look, you know how the U machine
works co decision between the Parliament and the governments in
(14:43):
the Council. I mean, obviously the communication machines that the
twenty seven governments have at their disposal are orders of
magnitude larger than you know, what the U institutions have,
and so as low long as there is that feeling,
particularly among politicians in member states that look there is
(15:07):
this Brussels that is far away and that we have
nothing to do with. While they all sit at the
negotiation table. You know, then then in a way we
cannot really win this this communication battle. And you know,
it's a it's an old story by now with within
the EU institutions that if if national politicians sort of
(15:30):
win in Brussels, then it's them that have won the battle. Look,
I have I have beaten the Brussels bureaucracy, and I
have successfully defended the interests of you know, whatever it
is Portuguese, Hungarian, or or or Finnish citizens. Whereas if
they are outvoted or if they didn't get exactly what
(15:52):
they want, and then it's the Brussels bureaucrats. Then it's
the EU that imposes this this or without rule. And
that's of course all bogos, right we have you know,
all EU citizens elect their members of the European Parliament,
all citizens elect their national parliaments, their national governments that
then also send their delegates to Brussels to vote on
(16:16):
EU legislation. But obviously I'm also convinced, you know, we
need to increase the transparency, needs to be visible what
those representatives, particularly in the Council than do. And I
think we can also strengthen further the direct link between
U citizens and the decision making at the EU level.
(16:40):
I mean, the frustrating thing is that on that, for example,
the European Parliament, which you know, as many of you
might know, does not have the right of initiative me
compared to a member of any other parliament in the
European Union, I don't have the right to put forward legislation.
But there are a very few few exceptions to that,
(17:01):
and one of the exceptions is that as members of
the European Parliament, we actually are allowed to propose an
electoral law, which we have done, you know, to to
create a more European election, so that people you know,
can actually vote on those you know, lead candidates running
for the highest office in the U, the Commission Presidency,
(17:23):
can at least be on the ballot everywhere in the
European Union. You know, it's been said, you know, I mean,
it's now been two European elections where Osla Funda line
actually has not been on the ballot. No one in
the EU has ever been able to cast a vote
for for Osla Funda line with the exception of the
(17:44):
seven hundred and twenty MPs, right, and to improve that
while we put forward a new electoral law, something that
has now been blocked you know, and not even discussed
by the governments in the in the Council for over
two years. And you know, these are the kind of
problems that we face and making the link between citizens
(18:08):
and your decision making more more direct.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Thank you very much. Yes, indeed, I definitely agree that
there are some let's call them hinderings, challenges within the
narrative at the various national levels that sometimes are not
completely coherent with what the process and the decision making
process is perced. And since you were mentioned in also
(18:36):
communications strategies, which are at the forefront of elections and
campaigns in general, but especially if we talk about the
younger generation, I wanted to ask both of you a
question about this. So like, of course, communication strategies play
a crucial role in shaping public perceptions and of course
(18:58):
in the engagement in elections. So what role did communication
play in these elections? Specifically, do you think there were
any significant gaps in how the elections were communicated to
the public. If you want to add more Daniel, since
you already mentioned this, and Adrienne, if you have any
inputs on this, thank you.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
I mean, what we can definitely see is that the
role of traditional media is declining, right that more and
more citizens and particularly younger people, are getting their information
on politics, are informing their choice of voting through social media.
TikTok in particular has been on the rise, and I
(19:43):
think by now and we have just seen, for example,
an election in Romania being annulled. We've all read you
about how certain parties, certain candidates in elections all across
Europe but also beyond, have been pushed by by social media.
We know how, for example, Elon Musk has tweaked the
(20:07):
algorithms of x to basically display his own messages to
everyone on the planet constantly. So you know that is
an issue. And in a way, you know, we have
spent decades calibrating the rules on how politics works on radio,
(20:27):
on television, in newspapers to make sure that elections are
fair and free and you know, also free of disinformation
and fake news. And these rules to some extent, either
do not apply to the Internet, to social media, or
the enforcement is far leaking behind. And I think that
(20:50):
is a real threat to our democracy and obviously we
want to reach people. But politicians like me are now
constantly in front of challenge of saying, do I endorse
a platform that is clearly wrecked or that is used
as a an influence tool by this or other government,
(21:11):
or do I still use the chance of reaching some
voters that are on this platform. And that obviously does
not necessarily make campaigning or politics easier in this sage.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
Absolutely, I mean the importance of social media is growing
and the way the different actors, the different candidates used
that during the campaign was very massive. Still, I think
traditional media play a certain role because this is a
(21:46):
sort of ecosystem and in a way, yes, being quoted
or being invited on the television is still I guess
important for many, notably because of older generation that are
still focusing on that type of media. And here I
think again there is a bit of a challenge. We
(22:11):
said before that it is very difficult to promote a
clear message from EU institutions or for the EU elections
with the Parliament due to its role. But something that
comes also very often is the fact that even at
national level, people are not necessarily much more aware of
(22:34):
how the decisions are taken and yeah, the different things
that are at stake. It's also true at local level,
and this is something that is very important also when
we assess because we could have the tendency to say, yes,
the European system is very complex and people are not
(22:55):
necessarily well informed about how it works. This is certainly true,
but it is also the case at national level. But
the media, mainly traditional media, also playing a critical role
here because they attract the attention of voters even if
they don't necessarily understand what is at stake, so they
(23:17):
have a crucial role. I think. Yeah, with this election
they played a bit more in favor of the promotion
of the EU institutions. Better pedagogy were used, I would say,
but there is still a lot of progress to be done.
(23:38):
I think unfortunately, the crisis that we are passing through
in different countries but also at European level, are making
the European Union more relevant and people a bit more
interested in knowing what the European Commission will decide because
it has a clearer impact on their daily life as well.
(24:02):
Most of the time to contest the decisions that are taken.
But in any case, I think this is interesting in
a democracy to have this attention toward an institution that
is getting clear. So I think this was a really
good point and as associations as NGOs, we are going
(24:23):
to try to capitalize on that too, So trying to
see with different NEPs, for example, how they can continue
to engage in person but also on social media with
their constituencies, with their voters, to benefit a little bit
from the dynamic of the election, and try to transfer
(24:43):
that into something that is a more permanent type of
engagement with the local voters. In short, so this is
a little bit the approach that we will have.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Thanks to both you for your very interesting insights on
the issue. Being myself communication officer, this interests me also
very much at work level, but also being part of
the so called younger generation, I can also see the
challenges personally. I did inform myself mainly through the social media,
(25:20):
for example, but I can definitely see all the threats
that Daniel was mentioning of, like fake news misinformation that
social media may bring, and if one has not the
ability to spot this fake news, then it's way more
threatening than it could already be per se. So probably
(25:41):
it's like a transition phase between the combination of the
traditional media and the new social media that are taken
the way. And Daniel, my next question would be for you,
there are many discussions now around the defense of democracy,
the rule of law, and both outside and within the
(26:01):
European Union. So what are the challenges to democracy and
how can the new Parliament challenge the back sliding that
we are experiencing today.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
I mean, the biggest challenge in a way is autocracy,
right that we have a rise of illiberal politicians systems.
You know, the developments that we have seen in Hungary
for example, the you know, more aggressive China and even
more so in Russia. That yeah, basically dictators going as
(26:34):
far as trying to invade their neighbors and taking over
their country. That is a challenge. I was one of
those MEPs you know, since I came to the Parliament
in twenty nineteen that has tried to do something against that.
And we have put some stuff in place. You know,
for the first time, we froze a substantial share of
(26:55):
you funding to the previous Polish government and to victor Or.
But but that battle in a way is not over.
And what worries me to some degree is you know,
with the new majority that we have in the European Parliament,
the progressive side of the House, you know, having lost
(27:17):
the majority, and and the shift to the right and
the extreme right basically means that that defense of democracy,
rule of law, fundamental rights, independent media and so on,
and and also of civil society is getting more difficult.
And we're already noticing now in the in the debates
that have started in this new parliament, you know that
(27:42):
that those things are getting under attack, that that people
on the right and the extreme right question, for example,
the role of civil society of n g o s.
You know, there is constant talk of you know, finding
individual example of an nng O that has done something
illegal and thereby discrediting an entire sector or the participation
(28:08):
of civil society. There are questions over whether the Commission
should provide any funding to allow civil society to participate
in European politics at the EU level. Right, and I
think that is really quite dangerous. That's how it starts
in a way. You know, we have seen that time
(28:31):
and again. We have seen that when Putin took over
in Russia. We have seen it when Orbun took over
in Hungary. You know that these kind of people then
very systematically they go after everyone that might you know,
hold them accountable, that might criticize them, that might be
a check on their power, and civil society, free media,
(28:53):
independent courts are then the first, the first that get
under pressure and see that that might happen at the
level of the European Union as well. Is obviously a
dangerous situation and something that I think we need to tackle,
you know, very resolutely and go into this debate and
(29:15):
make sure that that is not something that can happen
at the European level.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Thank you very much, and I can assume from your
answer that this would definitely hopefully be a key priority
for this new mandate. And indeed, following up on this,
I wanted to ask both of you, what do you
think in this new mandate should be the key priorities
and challenges. How can the European Parliament and the Commission
(29:41):
like ensure also that it's been able to continue building
on the momentum of citizen and youth engagement that has
been generated by the recent elections. As we said, of
course not always as we wanted to results wise, but
still there has been some engagement on this side.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
I mean, I think, you know, the list of challenges
is is not very short. You know, we have war
in Europe. We have an imperialist put in trying to
basically invade one neighbor after the other. We have a
climate crisis that is, you know, picking up speed. We
(30:21):
see the floods, we see the droughts, we see the
forest fires, not just at the other side of the planet,
but right here in the middle of Europe. We have
also a situation where the European economy is not doing
as well as it should be. We have Trump coming
back to the White House in January, you know, and
(30:43):
how reliable he is as a partner we will see.
But there are doubts. So there's a long list of challenges,
and obviously the Union needs to tackle those challenges, you know,
not one by one, but all at the same time
and at the same time. As I said, I think
democracy and our open, free societies, liberal democracies are under pressure.
(31:08):
But we need to manage to tackle all these challenges
at the same time because all of these challenges individually
are already capable of putting a severe threat to our
way of living, to our freedoms to our prosperity. So
the only way to do it is to tackle them
(31:30):
head on. For that, I think we need to reform
the European Union. We need to invest by both in
climate mitigation and in our defense. So there's really quite
a lot to do, and I think we originally need
to start doing that work.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
I can only so this statement in general, the strong
articulation of the different challenges that we are having, the
impact of the US election, the future of the Russian
aggression and how Ukraine will be able to cope with
that its repercussion on the EU in general and on
(32:10):
member states. But also yeah, maybe I would add the
question of the just transition for the green economy. This
is something that we have been trying to promote as
well to make sure that citizens can benefit, and that
is very very important for us in order to have
something that is successful and also supported by the citizens.
(32:38):
I would add another challenge, which is not the challenge
of the European Commission, but the challenge for the civil
society sector. Maybe, as it was said, we have this
specific new mandate with a lot of new illiberal MPs,
and also this will make work certainly a bit more
(33:02):
difficult in order to bring in to address the challenges
that we mentioned in the way we wanted.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
So just to close very briefly, I will ask both
of you if there's any message or kito takeaway you
would like to share with our listeners today.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Well, I mean, we have spoken about democracy, and at
the end of the day, democracy only works with democrats,
with people that defend democracy, that participate in democracy, that
make their voices heard. There are all kinds of different
ways for that, of course, you know, the most basic
one is to vote in an election. But you can
(33:40):
go out and demonstrate. You can petition your members of
Parliament or the Commission, you can join a political party,
and obviously you can run for office as well. And
you know, I mean, this is how I started. I
come from civil society myself. I have worked with Transparency
International from any years fighting corruption and then thought, look,
(34:02):
I cannot let someone like Victor Orburn just basically destroy
not not only democracy in his own country, but threaten
the whole you and so so it's up to all
of us, you know, to participate in that. I always
found it better to you know, take part in the
decision myself rather than let other people decide on all
(34:25):
of our future, but you know it's it's not something
that's forever. It depends on all of us to make
it work. So I can only invite everyone to participate
in democracy.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
Thank you us
Speaker 1 (36:13):
ST
Hello, and welcome to a new episode of the ALDA
podcast Shapes of Democracy. I am Manal Snedy, your host
from the Alder Communications team. In today's episode, we will
be reflecting on the twenty twenty four YOU elections, the
results and diving into key questions around citizen engagement, youth
participation and the challenges ahead for European democracy. We will
(00:46):
also discuss the role of civil society in keeping institutions
connected to the needs of citizens and explore communication strategies
that shape these elections. Our first guest is Daniel Point,
member of the europe In Parliament within the Party of
the Queen's EFA, and joining us alongside is Adria Lisha
(01:07):
head of Secretariat at ALDA as well as coordinator of
all those activities in Eastern Partnership countries and Central Asia.
Welcome Danielle and Adrian, and it's a pleasure to have
you with us today.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Thanks for having us.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
So without further ado, let's get started with the first
question that I will post to both of you. So,
reflecting on the twenty twenty four EU elections, how effective
do you think the campaigns of civil society and or
political parties were in fostering citizen engagement and increasing the
voter turnout, and were there any standout strategies or moments
(01:45):
that had a particularly strong impact.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Well, I would say we have seen voter turnout slightly up.
How much this was down to individual campaigns, you don't
fully know. It could also be you know that polarization,
for example, has has driven to some extent voter turnout.
(02:10):
That particularly parties on the extreme right have managed to
mobilize people that might not have voted in in previous elections.
So you might argue that to some degree, you know,
this is how democracy works. This, uh, you know, good,
good for those parties, But obviously, from my point of
(02:32):
view for for European democracy, also for the for the
future of citizen participation and strengthening European democracy, I'm not
convinced yet that that will only have positive results.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
I would say, yes, I I do agree with this
first assessment. I would say to complete a little bit
that maybe the way to ask the question is to
understand what was the main target of political parties and CSOs,
because we saw in many platforms that in the COSO
(03:11):
world at least the main target was not necessarily to
increase the turnout, but whether to address politicians candidates and
to convince them to make a pledge and support civil society.
So in this regard, I would say that the civil
society organization have been rather effective in doing so. Just
(03:33):
to mention one of this campaign, I would refer to
the one Civil Society Europe and the social Platform started
that gathered more than three hundred candidate MEPs and that
would allow us to continue capitalize on the pledges that
were made during this campaign, so finding some allies in
(03:56):
the Parliament in this new and date. So from this perspective,
I would say they have been effective. Then when it
comes to the turnout there again I would say a
civil society organization have been certainly efficient. The situation is
certainly not satisfactory because despite a slight improvement, we can
(04:23):
see that there are countries where the turnout is very
low and questioning the very sense of the participatory, the
participation in representative democracy. So this is still challenging and
not satisfactory. But if we compare it with the shrinking
(04:44):
space for civil society and the level of resources that
are available for this civil society organization to campaign, I
would say that the civil society has been deploying a
lot of efforts, and we can also try to point
(05:05):
out another factor, which is what would have been the
situation if these efforts weren't deployed. So I think this
is something we have to raise here when we assess
a little bit what was going on. And maybe, yeah,
the assumption on our side is that we are here
(05:26):
to protect and defend, to continue to promote, and if
not having results in advancing the number of voters, at
least we are keeping it in a reasonable way.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Thanks to both of you for your answers. Indeed, I
can say that the higher voture turn out is a
bitter sweet result, because yes it's higher, but of course
the composition of these voters foods indeed is a little
bit what leaves us deceived. And Adrian, you were just
(06:05):
talking about how civil society organizations like ALDA also play
a vital role in bridging the gap between institutions and citizens.
So I would like to ask you, in your view,
how can civil society ensure the new European Commission remains
connected to the needs and aspirations of European citizens and
(06:26):
particularly to the ones of the younger generation. And you
can also refer to our tail project that in all
that we developed.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Yes, thank you well. Yet to follow up on this
first input, I would say that the results of this
questions the way civil society is working. So, as a
member of civil society in Europe, ALDA took part in
(06:58):
a project called Interest that was questioning the relationship between
civil society organizations and social movement to understand whole citizens
perceive a civil society organization when they are contesting institutions
or policies that are taken at national or European level.
(07:21):
And it was a very interesting project where we managed
to bring academics and practitioners from civil society organizations and
really we can see that with many organizations that are
relying more and more on institutional funding to do and
(07:41):
implement the activities, the relation and the perception citizen have
of civil society organization is becoming is evolving, to say
the least, and becoming certainly a point we need to
further reflect when it comes to convincing that voting is
(08:06):
something we need to work with. So this is one
part of the thing that as civil society organization we
are still working on and we will continue to assess
for the upcoming mandate. Yeah, when it comes to the
TAIL project, for instance, what what we try to do
(08:26):
is to develop activities in seven countries where we trained
citizens to organize local events. So we had around one
hundred trainees and each of them organized one or two
events in their localities to reach out to their local constituency.
(08:48):
And from this point of view, I think it was
a very nice efforts because at the end of the day,
we organize a very large number of local events in
yea seven trees, and of course we weren't the only
organization doing that type of things. Now, this comes in
(09:11):
a context, as I said, where the space pos civil
society is shrinking, but also where the inequalities are growing
and the social coation is also damaged by these growing inequalities. Now,
(09:32):
the impact it has on representative democracy is very important,
and the polarization that we also saw during the results
of the election is certainly a reflection of that. Or
this is for the time being the assessment that I have.
What I want to say is ALDA, working as a
(09:56):
specialized organization on democracy and more particularly on participatory democracy,
has observed that participatory democracy has been the sort of
medical remedy against the law trust of citizens in two institutions.
And we have seen the multiplication of these different approaches
(10:20):
and we welcome that parsipatory democracy was a bit mainstream first,
but we soon came to realize that despite the constant
improvement of methodologies trying to involve citizens, etc. There were
two main aspects that remained untouched and that prevent us
to secure more trust toward democracy. And one aspect for
(10:44):
me is the clear identification of the type of people
the population we want to get input from on specific policies.
So to say that in the parts battery processes, most
of the time citizens are identified as a unique or
(11:05):
more geneous group. And for us it's not really the
right approach because at the end of the day, statistics
shows that around three percent of the population who is
able to actually participate in the in the consultation would
really do it. So three percent is even lower than
(11:28):
any representative democracy exercise. And often we see that those
with the biggest political capital socio economic capital are the
ones that are motivated to join these processes. In France,
there was a book called the Confiscated Future Lavenir Confiscate
(11:53):
that was published to explain the difficulties and the danger
of such an approach. So this is to say that
it is important to keep in mind that we need
to progress on this aspect and not take even these
innovative methodologies as a miracle solution in a context where unfortunately,
(12:18):
and this is my second point, the impact of PARTICID
battery processes as well as the way the European democracy
is working today have not necessarily delivered on people expectations
on the way we share the resources and these resources
(12:40):
are distributed, because as said inequalities are growing in many
member states and therefore it is more and more difficult
to get a sort of common understanding and having shared
perspective when the population you are asking to vote have
(13:03):
so much different living conditions.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Thank you very much. I can see that of course
we have some positive results, but the challenges are many
and even more than the positive results. As always, so
let's hope also like the new Parliament, this new commissioner
just at the start, so let's hope that the work
on this side, also of the citizens engagement, will be done.
(13:29):
And on your side, Danielle, I wanted to ask you
are European institutions since until we've talked about civil society organizations.
Are these institutions successfully capturing the attention of the younger generations?
And in your opinion, what innovative approaches or strategies could
(13:50):
they adopt to better or connect with and inspire young
people to engage with democracy.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
I mean the question whether we reach young people enough,
I would say yes and no. There are a number
of MPs, you know, very very present on TikTok, on Instagram,
on different social media sides. I think in general, the
Parliament that you institutions are really trying very hard to
(14:20):
reach out in a way that you has sort of
a systematic disadvantage when it comes to communicating what's happening here.
How important you know, you legislation has become for citizens
and if you look, you know how the U machine
works co decision between the Parliament and the governments in
(14:43):
the Council. I mean, obviously the communication machines that the
twenty seven governments have at their disposal are orders of
magnitude larger than you know, what the U institutions have,
and so as low long as there is that feeling,
particularly among politicians in member states that look there is
(15:07):
this Brussels that is far away and that we have
nothing to do with. While they all sit at the
negotiation table. You know, then then in a way we
cannot really win this this communication battle. And you know,
it's a it's an old story by now with within
the EU institutions that if if national politicians sort of
(15:30):
win in Brussels, then it's them that have won the battle. Look,
I have I have beaten the Brussels bureaucracy, and I
have successfully defended the interests of you know, whatever it
is Portuguese, Hungarian, or or or Finnish citizens. Whereas if
they are outvoted or if they didn't get exactly what
(15:52):
they want, and then it's the Brussels bureaucrats. Then it's
the EU that imposes this this or without rule. And
that's of course all bogos, right we have you know,
all EU citizens elect their members of the European Parliament,
all citizens elect their national parliaments, their national governments that
then also send their delegates to Brussels to vote on
(16:16):
EU legislation. But obviously I'm also convinced, you know, we
need to increase the transparency, needs to be visible what
those representatives, particularly in the Council than do. And I
think we can also strengthen further the direct link between
U citizens and the decision making at the EU level.
(16:40):
I mean, the frustrating thing is that on that, for example,
the European Parliament, which you know, as many of you
might know, does not have the right of initiative me
compared to a member of any other parliament in the
European Union, I don't have the right to put forward legislation.
But there are a very few few exceptions to that,
(17:01):
and one of the exceptions is that as members of
the European Parliament, we actually are allowed to propose an
electoral law, which we have done, you know, to to
create a more European election, so that people you know,
can actually vote on those you know, lead candidates running
for the highest office in the U, the Commission Presidency,
(17:23):
can at least be on the ballot everywhere in the
European Union. You know, it's been said, you know, I mean,
it's now been two European elections where Osla Funda line
actually has not been on the ballot. No one in
the EU has ever been able to cast a vote
for for Osla Funda line with the exception of the
(17:44):
seven hundred and twenty MPs, right, and to improve that
while we put forward a new electoral law, something that
has now been blocked you know, and not even discussed
by the governments in the in the Council for over
two years. And you know, these are the kind of
problems that we face and making the link between citizens
(18:08):
and your decision making more more direct.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Thank you very much. Yes, indeed, I definitely agree that
there are some let's call them hinderings, challenges within the
narrative at the various national levels that sometimes are not
completely coherent with what the process and the decision making
process is perced. And since you were mentioned in also
(18:36):
communications strategies, which are at the forefront of elections and
campaigns in general, but especially if we talk about the
younger generation, I wanted to ask both of you a
question about this. So like, of course, communication strategies play
a crucial role in shaping public perceptions and of course
(18:58):
in the engagement in elections. So what role did communication
play in these elections? Specifically, do you think there were
any significant gaps in how the elections were communicated to
the public. If you want to add more Daniel, since
you already mentioned this, and Adrienne, if you have any
inputs on this, thank you.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
I mean, what we can definitely see is that the
role of traditional media is declining, right that more and
more citizens and particularly younger people, are getting their information
on politics, are informing their choice of voting through social media.
TikTok in particular has been on the rise, and I
(19:43):
think by now and we have just seen, for example,
an election in Romania being annulled. We've all read you
about how certain parties, certain candidates in elections all across
Europe but also beyond, have been pushed by by social media.
We know how, for example, Elon Musk has tweaked the
(20:07):
algorithms of x to basically display his own messages to
everyone on the planet constantly. So you know that is
an issue. And in a way, you know, we have
spent decades calibrating the rules on how politics works on radio,
(20:27):
on television, in newspapers to make sure that elections are
fair and free and you know, also free of disinformation
and fake news. And these rules to some extent, either
do not apply to the Internet, to social media, or
the enforcement is far leaking behind. And I think that
(20:50):
is a real threat to our democracy and obviously we
want to reach people. But politicians like me are now
constantly in front of challenge of saying, do I endorse
a platform that is clearly wrecked or that is used
as a an influence tool by this or other government,
(21:11):
or do I still use the chance of reaching some
voters that are on this platform. And that obviously does
not necessarily make campaigning or politics easier in this sage.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
Absolutely, I mean the importance of social media is growing
and the way the different actors, the different candidates used
that during the campaign was very massive. Still, I think
traditional media play a certain role because this is a
(21:46):
sort of ecosystem and in a way, yes, being quoted
or being invited on the television is still I guess
important for many, notably because of older generation that are
still focusing on that type of media. And here I
think again there is a bit of a challenge. We
(22:11):
said before that it is very difficult to promote a
clear message from EU institutions or for the EU elections
with the Parliament due to its role. But something that
comes also very often is the fact that even at
national level, people are not necessarily much more aware of
(22:34):
how the decisions are taken and yeah, the different things
that are at stake. It's also true at local level,
and this is something that is very important also when
we assess because we could have the tendency to say, yes,
the European system is very complex and people are not
(22:55):
necessarily well informed about how it works. This is certainly true,
but it is also the case at national level. But
the media, mainly traditional media, also playing a critical role
here because they attract the attention of voters even if
they don't necessarily understand what is at stake, so they
(23:17):
have a crucial role. I think. Yeah, with this election
they played a bit more in favor of the promotion
of the EU institutions. Better pedagogy were used, I would say,
but there is still a lot of progress to be done.
(23:38):
I think unfortunately, the crisis that we are passing through
in different countries but also at European level, are making
the European Union more relevant and people a bit more
interested in knowing what the European Commission will decide because
it has a clearer impact on their daily life as well.
(24:02):
Most of the time to contest the decisions that are taken.
But in any case, I think this is interesting in
a democracy to have this attention toward an institution that
is getting clear. So I think this was a really
good point and as associations as NGOs, we are going
(24:23):
to try to capitalize on that too, So trying to
see with different NEPs, for example, how they can continue
to engage in person but also on social media with
their constituencies, with their voters, to benefit a little bit
from the dynamic of the election, and try to transfer
(24:43):
that into something that is a more permanent type of
engagement with the local voters. In short, so this is
a little bit the approach that we will have.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Thanks to both you for your very interesting insights on
the issue. Being myself communication officer, this interests me also
very much at work level, but also being part of
the so called younger generation, I can also see the
challenges personally. I did inform myself mainly through the social media,
(25:20):
for example, but I can definitely see all the threats
that Daniel was mentioning of, like fake news misinformation that
social media may bring, and if one has not the
ability to spot this fake news, then it's way more
threatening than it could already be per se. So probably
(25:41):
it's like a transition phase between the combination of the
traditional media and the new social media that are taken
the way. And Daniel, my next question would be for you,
there are many discussions now around the defense of democracy,
the rule of law, and both outside and within the
(26:01):
European Union. So what are the challenges to democracy and
how can the new Parliament challenge the back sliding that
we are experiencing today.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
I mean, the biggest challenge in a way is autocracy,
right that we have a rise of illiberal politicians systems.
You know, the developments that we have seen in Hungary
for example, the you know, more aggressive China and even
more so in Russia. That yeah, basically dictators going as
(26:34):
far as trying to invade their neighbors and taking over
their country. That is a challenge. I was one of
those MEPs you know, since I came to the Parliament
in twenty nineteen that has tried to do something against that.
And we have put some stuff in place. You know,
for the first time, we froze a substantial share of
(26:55):
you funding to the previous Polish government and to victor Or.
But but that battle in a way is not over.
And what worries me to some degree is you know,
with the new majority that we have in the European Parliament,
the progressive side of the House, you know, having lost
(27:17):
the majority, and and the shift to the right and
the extreme right basically means that that defense of democracy,
rule of law, fundamental rights, independent media and so on,
and and also of civil society is getting more difficult.
And we're already noticing now in the in the debates
that have started in this new parliament, you know that
(27:42):
that those things are getting under attack, that that people
on the right and the extreme right question, for example,
the role of civil society of n g o s.
You know, there is constant talk of you know, finding
individual example of an nng O that has done something
illegal and thereby discrediting an entire sector or the participation
(28:08):
of civil society. There are questions over whether the Commission
should provide any funding to allow civil society to participate
in European politics at the EU level. Right, and I
think that is really quite dangerous. That's how it starts
in a way. You know, we have seen that time
(28:31):
and again. We have seen that when Putin took over
in Russia. We have seen it when Orbun took over
in Hungary. You know that these kind of people then
very systematically they go after everyone that might you know,
hold them accountable, that might criticize them, that might be
a check on their power, and civil society, free media,
(28:53):
independent courts are then the first, the first that get
under pressure and see that that might happen at the
level of the European Union as well. Is obviously a
dangerous situation and something that I think we need to tackle,
you know, very resolutely and go into this debate and
(29:15):
make sure that that is not something that can happen
at the European level.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Thank you very much, and I can assume from your
answer that this would definitely hopefully be a key priority
for this new mandate. And indeed, following up on this,
I wanted to ask both of you, what do you
think in this new mandate should be the key priorities
and challenges. How can the European Parliament and the Commission
(29:41):
like ensure also that it's been able to continue building
on the momentum of citizen and youth engagement that has
been generated by the recent elections. As we said, of
course not always as we wanted to results wise, but
still there has been some engagement on this side.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
I mean, I think, you know, the list of challenges
is is not very short. You know, we have war
in Europe. We have an imperialist put in trying to
basically invade one neighbor after the other. We have a
climate crisis that is, you know, picking up speed. We
(30:21):
see the floods, we see the droughts, we see the
forest fires, not just at the other side of the planet,
but right here in the middle of Europe. We have
also a situation where the European economy is not doing
as well as it should be. We have Trump coming
back to the White House in January, you know, and
(30:43):
how reliable he is as a partner we will see.
But there are doubts. So there's a long list of challenges,
and obviously the Union needs to tackle those challenges, you know,
not one by one, but all at the same time
and at the same time. As I said, I think
democracy and our open, free societies, liberal democracies are under pressure.
(31:08):
But we need to manage to tackle all these challenges
at the same time because all of these challenges individually
are already capable of putting a severe threat to our
way of living, to our freedoms to our prosperity. So
the only way to do it is to tackle them
(31:30):
head on. For that, I think we need to reform
the European Union. We need to invest by both in
climate mitigation and in our defense. So there's really quite
a lot to do, and I think we originally need
to start doing that work.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
I can only so this statement in general, the strong
articulation of the different challenges that we are having, the
impact of the US election, the future of the Russian
aggression and how Ukraine will be able to cope with
that its repercussion on the EU in general and on
(32:10):
member states. But also yeah, maybe I would add the
question of the just transition for the green economy. This
is something that we have been trying to promote as
well to make sure that citizens can benefit, and that
is very very important for us in order to have
something that is successful and also supported by the citizens.
(32:38):
I would add another challenge, which is not the challenge
of the European Commission, but the challenge for the civil
society sector. Maybe, as it was said, we have this
specific new mandate with a lot of new illiberal MPs,
and also this will make work certainly a bit more
(33:02):
difficult in order to bring in to address the challenges
that we mentioned in the way we wanted.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
So just to close very briefly, I will ask both
of you if there's any message or kito takeaway you
would like to share with our listeners today.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Well, I mean, we have spoken about democracy, and at
the end of the day, democracy only works with democrats,
with people that defend democracy, that participate in democracy, that
make their voices heard. There are all kinds of different
ways for that, of course, you know, the most basic
one is to vote in an election. But you can
(33:40):
go out and demonstrate. You can petition your members of
Parliament or the Commission, you can join a political party,
and obviously you can run for office as well. And
you know, I mean, this is how I started. I
come from civil society myself. I have worked with Transparency
International from any years fighting corruption and then thought, look,
(34:02):
I cannot let someone like Victor Orburn just basically destroy
not not only democracy in his own country, but threaten
the whole you and so so it's up to all
of us, you know, to participate in that. I always
found it better to you know, take part in the
decision myself rather than let other people decide on all
(34:25):
of our future, but you know it's it's not something
that's forever. It depends on all of us to make
it work. So I can only invite everyone to participate
in democracy.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
Thank you us
Speaker 1 (36:13):
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