Adnan Syed

Another murder case with some strange details that don't really line up. High-school drug dealer, scorned ex and who works at an eyeglass company at 1 in the morning? Join myself and Sean Shank while we discuss the murder of Hae Min Lee.

Episode Transcript

(00:12):
What's happening, everybody. Welcome backto JJ's Lounge. I am still dealing
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(00:36):
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(00:57):
back into a normal flow in thenext few weeks. With that being said,
Welcome to another episode of Singed EyeSockets right here on JJ's Lounge.
I'm your host, shot Box Ginger, and we got a hell of a
show tonight. But let's introduce theguests again, who everybody probably already knows
who follows the JJ's Lounge. Wegot Sean Shankman. How you doing.
I'm good now, folks. Whathe's not telling me is that his only

(01:18):
fans is thriving. Thriving. Soit's a lot of a lot of feet
in syrup being poured on feet.That's all I know. You know,
I have like this playlist of calledHobbit feet and it's just I mean,
people like hair feet. Man,I don't know what's uh, I'm good

(01:40):
man. You know. I've hada lot of you know, life stuff,
but we all do. And uh, you know, the spring semester
for my schools that I teach atis winding down, so I have a
little bit of downtime and I'm gonnatry to get caught up on domestic things.
And I also I've been having sometechnical stuff too, so like I've
not been putting out content like Inormally do. So I'm not to get

(02:05):
caught back up on that pretty soonbecause I've been, you know, I
feeling it. It's like I've gotstuff to do and I realized, you
know, it's tough to do withoutthe proper equipment. So that's that's so
true. It's it's really hard toget any of good quality stuff. And
when I make the clips, youknow, I zoom in and I crop
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(02:29):
the words that I'm trying to getacross and the clips than the view the
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adapt and improve on that as well. Well. We just need to start
making that huge, you know,money from all the subscribers. Then you

(02:53):
get that nice like Joe Rogan experienced, two camera thing going, yeah,
we can do shows anywhere in theworld to make a from the same room.
There you go. Man. Sofor everybody tonight, we are talking
about the murder of eighteen year oldHayman Lee. She was went missing on

(03:15):
January thirteenth of nineteen ninety nine andher body was found February twenty second of
nineteen ninety nine and Lincoln Park andit's in Baltimore and Maryland, and so
sort of a timeline of how theday went and we're going to get into

(03:36):
this kind of little step by stepand you know how I am. I'm
kind of all over the place.But you did admit that you are unaware
of this case, correct. Ihave no idea, but since it went
down in Baltimore, Maryland, thefirst suspect at the top of my list
is old Johnny Hopkins. It's gonnathrow that out there. Well, hay

(03:59):
and Lee as a high school student. She's part of the Magnet program.
She's the intelligent kid. It's likebasically more of your advanced students kind of
thing. Did a lat of sports, was very involved in her family.
She was, you know, everyday she get off school, she'd go
get her cousins from school take themhome. And actually the reason that she

(04:24):
was a report of her being missingwas because she never went to pick up
her cousin from school that day.She was supposed to be there like three
forty five, never showed up.So her parents got a call saying,
hey, this child's still here.Is she come and get him? And
that's kind of how it started.But what we do know is that she

(04:46):
left school. There's video footage ofher leaving the school at two fifteen pm
on January thirteenth, and between thattime and February twenty second, it was
all just sort of hearsay. Nobodyknows what happened now when they found in
the park. It was an anonymousreport by somebody going by the name mister

(05:09):
s is how they've identified them,that's all we know. And in any
reports, this guy was on hisway to work, how to pee when
the woods ounter body. Now hewas less than a mile away from work,
and he went several hundred yards intothe park to pee, Which doesn't
make sense to me right off thebat. What do you mean by several

(05:32):
hundred because like I have stopped inan emergency to pee on the side of
it, like a busy highway,and I have gone, you know,
over into a holler just to notbe you know, discovered. When I
was younger and much you know,had I don't know what do they call

(05:55):
that dignity and things? Yeah,now I don't care, you know,
but back then I would go agood distance in to get you know,
some good cult caught. Yeah.Yeah. But my thing is that if
he was if he was driving towork, and he was less than a
mile away from work, why wouldhe stop to walk that far into the
woods. And then you just sohappened to see part of the body and

(06:18):
I'm not saying it didn't happen.I'm just saying it's kind of curious.
He actually wasn't even a suspect,but I wanted to throw out how she
was found, and that's how shewas found. That's incredibly suspect. I
mean, it is. I'm sorry, that's incredibly suspecting. The fact that
they just accepted it that on itsface is a little bit weird. Yeah,

(06:38):
And the way that when the investigatorsand everybody showed up, they had
a hard time even finding the body, So it's it's kind of I don't
know that that that to me ispretty sketchy in itself. And again,
this isn't This is a cold casein a sense because they've narrowed it down

(07:00):
to potentially two people, but theydon't know who did it, and it's
still actually not proven on which oneis. But we'll get into that later
into this. So, she hada recent breakup with her boyfriend of a
decent period of time. His nameis Adnan say Ed. He was actually

(07:21):
convicted in February of two thousand forthe murder of her. It was a
few weeks after the trial or afterthey found the body. Based on the
testimony of one of his friends.His name is Jay Wilde's. Now the
testimony of Jay Wilde is very weirdto me, but I want to point

(07:46):
out that Adnan say it is aMuslim descent, and this is ninety nine
and there is, you know,obviously racial issues to kind of get into
this. And Ham and Lee hada journal where she kind of talked about
her relationship with him and how happyshe was. But then towards the end

(08:07):
when they broke up, she saidthat he was a possessive boyfriend and never
said that he was aggressive, likephysically, but that he was possessive.
And this was just shortly after theirbreakup that this went down, that she
ended up going missing and she wasdating a new guy. Now, Jay

(08:28):
Wilde's a friend of his who theynever say in any of the interviews that
they were necessarily like friends friends,like they hung out all the time.
They just kind of weren't the samecrowd of people. Jay Wilde's was sort
of a go to drug dealer,and ad Non smote she smoked they kind

(08:48):
of hung around that crowd of people, and their relationship Hay being Korean and
him being Muslim was almost sort ofsecret to the family for a lot of
religious reasons. So most of thetestimony is based on the friends, and
Jay Wilde's testimony is what convicts atnon. So I want to start out

(09:13):
with Jay's testimony of this whole case. So on the day and he doesn't
even get interviewed until like the twentysixth of February. So body's been found
already. All stuff's going down right, right, It's just that this all
seems very convoluted, Like she wasseen at two fifteen, Is is missing

(09:37):
by three p forty five at least, because that's when she was supposed to
pick the kid up? Yes,and then she's found in seven did you
Okay, it's about six weeks later. Six weeks later, but you said
several hundred yards yards. A yardis three feet, yes, So if
you're talking one hundred yards, whichis a football field three hundred feet,

(10:00):
If it's several hundred we could assumeat least several hundred yards, I would
say three football fields in this isa I mean it's a city park.
So it's not like I know,it's just this right off the get.
There's a bunch of stuff that's justeven really suspect about the whole thing and

(10:22):
this mister s that called in.You know, I know I'm sidetracking,
but it just no, it's fine. My brain is going back to this,
going this doesn't make any sense,and I agree with the whole and
you you probably are going to wraparound back to this later. But it's
just but you said he was nevera suspect, right now, he was

(10:45):
never announced that Actually, the onlyone that was ever really looked into was
that not say it all right.They didn't do a ton of digging,
and then that's a big part ofas of today, he was really least
he was released at the end oftwenty twenty three, and it's still he's
like under house arrest because they're stilldoing some I mean, there's still court

(11:09):
things going on, but he wascleared of the murder. As of now,
they're still looking into this case.But the reason why I was booked
was based off Jay's testimony. Solet's get into the Jay's testament. Yeah,
okay, So on the day ofJanuary thirteenth and nineteen ninety nine,

(11:31):
Jay's testimony was that ad Noon hadpicked him up to take him to school
at like ten fifteen in the morning, and we actually have a timeline here.
I'm gonna share this timeline here.This is this is a cell phone
pings from the AT and T towers. Now again, this is ninety nine,
so cell phones are still pretty new, right, Okay. He says

(11:54):
that at around ten in the morning, he calls Jay, which is true,
he packs him up and takes himto school, so they I do
actually have proof that he was atthe school based off the cell phone towers.
He says around two thirty six hegets a call from Jay saying to
meet up with him. So betweentwo fifteen and two thirty. So he

(12:16):
meets up with Jay around two thirtyand I remember, Yeah, he picks
him up from like a best Buyparking lot, and he gets in the
car and says, I killed her. I did it. I killed her.
I killed hey, And he basicallyblackmails him and says, if you

(12:37):
don't help me dispose of her body, then I'm gonna, you know,
call you out on the weed deal. And you've been doing so Jay's manipulated
into this situation. He says henever sees He tells him he never sees
Jay's car at the time, butthat that's where her body is a stored
in the trunk of her car,and they don't go get it until seven

(13:01):
fifteen. Where they go, theyget the car that they're at the park
around seven fifteen at night, andthat's what it was. Where was the
car was instment. So Jay sayshe never saw it, but he was
pretty sure it was in that vicinitybecause he met He met Ad noon at

(13:24):
the park at seven o'clock where hewent they buried the body and then he
went and hit the car and thenmet up with Jay who drove them away.
This is around seven fifteen. Okay, okay, I understand now this
is so convoluted that the police justwent fuck it, he's guilty. There

(13:48):
are too many facts he gets through. I've got to go home and watch
those street blues. Oh wait,well this is ninety nine. Yeah,
you know, he's just like,what is going on here? Okay?
So here is So it does havecell phone pings of Lincoln Park at seven
seven or nine seven sixteen. Sothere's that proof. Okay. I mean,

(14:11):
they have evidence now linking his phoneto those towers. Now, however,
later on what they don't tell you, and this was actually considered a
Brady violation was that the AT andT fact report says that you cannot base
location on incoming calls, which meansthat the incoming calls could be pinging from

(14:37):
other towers. So somebody could havecalled ad Non and pointed him at that
tower, even though he could havepotentially not been there, which an alibi
said that they had been hanging outwith them earlier in the day whenever this
whole thing went down, And theyalso never used that or even brought that
albi to the stand, So there'sa a lot of things that, Yeah,

(15:01):
there was an alibi that said thathe was in the library around that
time that he supposedly killed Lee andthey met up, and so two thirty
ish, whenever he had apparently killedLee, there is an alibi saying that
no, he was actually at thelibrary at the school, but they never
brought that witness to the stand.So so far, this kid was convicted

(15:26):
solely on the testimony of the dudethat went to a best by parking lot
allegedly and picked him up. Andthat's it, even though there's evidence to
the contrary that the dude wasn't evenin the vicinity. He's being wholesome and
studying in a library. Yes,and Jay's story does change several times throughout

(15:50):
the trial. It's almost like theyfind more evidence and then his story kind
of twists. But it almost seemslike they're trying to make it him like
that they're after ad not throughout thiswhole case. Because in the first interview
with Jay, he they mentioned clothes, the clothes that she was wearing.

(16:12):
Jace had mentioned that they ditched theclothes, but then when they found the
car, the clothes were in theback seat of the car, and then
he had changed the story to ohwell, add on and just tossed the
clothes in the bag. Later,after this whole thing is done, years

(16:32):
later, he comes about and says, the reason why my story was so
shaky is because you know, Iwas trying to figure out what I wanted
to let him know, what Ididn't want to know, you know,
me being a weed dealer, Iwould didn't want the people who weren't were
innocent, you know, their namesbeing brought up and you know, stuff
like that, just stuff that didn'treally make sense. And then basically he

(16:52):
said, once they said we're notcoming after you for your weed crap.
We just want to know what happened, and then he kind of opened up
and that's when his story came out, the truth of what happened. However,
I'm sorry, please continue, Noyou got anything, No, it
just doesn't. It's a whole lotof doesn't make clear senses to you know,

(17:15):
there all of a sudden, there'smore facts, and then you're saying
that seemingly his testimony is like bendingand swerving to try to meet those facts,
but then the facts aren't matching upon the back end, and this
guy lost twenty three years of hislife to this, Yeah, and which

(17:37):
is really weird and in my mind, and that's mostly because like it's almost
does seem like a race thing,Like the reason why they they were after
him was because of his race.Like I mean, I hate to say
that, like we do know likea lot of Muslim religious background, you
know is and how like the reallylationshipworks between the man and the woman primarily

(18:03):
seems to be more like the manleading the relationship kind of thing. I
don't know that. I mean,that's true. And that's not me trying
to go after anybody or anything,because you know that's culturally accurate. That's
not yes, you know, let'snot get all or even woke here,
but there's nobody like nobody pointed itpointed out that he was aggressive towards her,

(18:23):
though Jay just mentioned that before thisall went down that he was upset
because he knew that she was datingthis new guy down which there's another thing,
Don who wasn't even a suspect.They couldn't even reach him until one
three that morning after she was missing, and he reported that he was working.

(18:45):
He worked at Lens Crafters, whichis a glasses eyeglass company. Yeah,
I don't know any that are openingat one three in the morning,
That's what I was gonna say.There's like, no, no, no,
I work in the emergency wing oflens Crafters where I need bifocal stat
Yes, So they look into iton the second round of the trial.

(19:10):
They don't even look at this asan actual option until the second trial,
and they get a hold of LensCrafters, the company, and they say,
well, he's actually not on thetime card for his store to be
working at that day. And thenmiraculously they the court asked for the records

(19:32):
and within a couple of days somethingshows up that he was at another location,
working underneath a different employee. Id card at that shift that never
existed. And then it turns outthat that store owner happens to be the
girlfriend of his mom, and hismom runs the Lens Crafters that he initially

(19:56):
works at. Okay, man,I am so lost. I know,
it's all over the place. Man, it's they don't even look at this
guy as a suspect, but thisis his This is Lee's current boyfriend.
When she disappeared. They couldn't getahold of them until one they're the next
day. Who is the detective onthis thing? Barney Fife? I mean,

(20:18):
what the hell is going on?I do want to give a shout
out to the seven people that arewatching right now. Jump in the comments.
If you're familiar with this case,please, I would love to get
you guys involved. Okay, Ineed some context. First of all,
where's this going down? Baltimore,Maryland south Side? Well, okay,
that's right, Baltimore, Maryland,which I mean that's a fairly I mean,
okay, so nineteen ninety nine,that's twenty five years ago. It's

(20:41):
quarter of a century, but stillit's a bigger city, so it's I
would say, it's slightly more progressive, and it was pre nine to eleven,
so the anti Muslim sentiment was notas heavy in the air, I
would assume, right of the country. But still, I mean the way

(21:03):
most of this has been railroaded,which is what it seems like it is
so far. Yeah, I wouldsay that you're you're probably right. This
does seem like it's very much racebased, you know, if they're because
I mean they are turning up.It's it's like there was a dude standing
there with a how was she?How was she killed? First? Okay,

(21:25):
let's get into that. Okay,So we've discussed that don isn't even
a suspect in any of this andkind of the weirdness behind that, right,
and I want to I want towrap that up with when they called
the corporate office they did, theysaid that schedules had to be written a
week prior to that pay period.So in order for them to have fabricated

(21:49):
it, they could have known thathe was going to be looked at and
fabricated and altered like a time cardspecifically for him. That's the possibility,
yes, And that's the yes.So out of like the six or seven
different shows that I listened to,and the documents of documents I've read.

(22:12):
That's all the information we have onDon. That's it. And then he's
never even considered a suspect. Okay, all right, So she was found
laying on her right side in thegrave. Now are you actually I'm pretty
sure you are, and I'll letyou explain this to the people listening.

(22:33):
Do you know what full avidity is? Are you? I mean, are
you talking rigor mortis like the yes? Okay, So rigor sets in I
think it's two hours after the deathand then it hangs in for about twelve
hours if I'm not mistaken. Andwhen you're talking full rigor, I mean

(22:55):
they lock up like the body isfrozen in place. I was an the
e mt uh for in another timein my life and we had to go
transport a lady who was in fullrigor and the way she had passed.
You know how when an insect diesthat it curls up. Yes, she
her arms were like this. Idon't know if she was holding a pillow

(23:18):
when she died or what it was, but when we got there, her
arms were like this and literally hadto and she was this old lady.
We picked her up like a suitcase, like it was a handle and put
her in to the cot, right, So, yeah, I've had experience,
so do you do? You knowwhat lividity is though, like full

(23:41):
avidity, full avidity, So lvidityis how they can determine the positions that
the body was laid in or movedbased on the settling of the blood.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, theblood yeah okay, yeah, I remember
that. So she was found.It takes eight to twelve hours for the

(24:03):
full ofdity to take effect, andanything prior to that it can kind of
skew, like the blood float canredirect based on how you're moving the bodies,
and it's kind of how they candetermine, you know, all that
kind of stuff. Well, shehad full purple and blue on her face,
her stomach, fronts of her legs, so it looked like she had

(24:25):
been laying flat in front of herface down, yes, face down,
yep, full lividity, face down. Okay. Immediately contradicts Jay's story because
he says that she was killed andstored in the trunk of the car,
which they didn't come back and buryuntil seven pm. Even if that was

(24:47):
the case, and she was killedat two thirty. In order for her
to have full avidity on the frontof her body, it would have had
to been at least midnight, andshe would have been laying flat. Yeah,
and unless she was a hobbit,that's not going to be happening in
the back of a trunk of acar. She was found on her right

(25:08):
side, buried, but all theblood had pulled the front side. Yes,
So that squashes literally the whole timelineof the story that Jay gave right
there. And that's not based ondoing any digging. That's based on facts.

(25:33):
So all right, So you've gotthe one dude lying, and then
you've got the new guy, Donwhose mother's girlfriends half sister twice removed,
lied about his Linz crafting job underanother employee's tag number at the store that

(25:55):
was making glasses at two o'clock inthe morning because of emergency glass situation.
Dude, this is what the fucklike, It's it's a totally a what
the fuck story. Jay wasn't eveneven considered a suspect. I think it's
mostly because he cooperated with the cops. That's just my opinion of it.
It sounds like he just gave himsome bullshit story that they were and here's

(26:18):
here's here's another thing that kind ofgets me which I wouldn't be surprised if
Jay and I'm not even trying toclear adding on of this case, but
based on the testimony that got himput away, just the lividity aspect in
itself squashes that whole timeline. Yeah, it absolutely does. And it almost
makes you wonder if she was storedsomewhere else up until recently before that six

(26:41):
weeks. Well, I mean ifyou're because because the way that the timeline
that he's saying it, in orderfor that to have have been accurate,
that would have been meant that theyshe he took her body there right for
he killed her and later flat andhit her underneath the bushes. And maybe

(27:04):
they went back and dug the holeat seven fifteen and then went back later
that night and put her. ButI don't think that he would have just
stored the body just out in public, face down. How was she killed?
Strangulation? Strangulation? Was there bruisingon the back, No, there

(27:30):
was actually no signs of any altercationother than the strangulation, and there was
no decomposition. This is six weeksafter in January in Maryland, there were
winter storms. There were no animalschewing on a body, none of that.

(27:55):
Oh oh there were okay, sono animals was okay, This was
in a park, she was found. Okay, I'm going to take a
swing at this. My thinking isthat this Jay kid did it, not

(28:21):
Don. I think Don got scaredbecause he fit. He either found something
out or he knew something happened.So all of a sudden, mom or
her girlfriend where we're covering for this, and what happened is Jay somehow got
her from behind you garrotted right anddropped her. And I can't unless she

(28:52):
was in some sort of because iflike you picture strangulation from behind, no
signs of struggle or anything like.There's no head wounds, so it's just
the strangling. It just sounds likeshe strangled, choke, choke, choke,
passes out, drops her forward,she's dying in the snow. Lividity

(29:17):
happens. And it either happened inthe park right where she's out there and
killed her there and just dropped her. But the problem with that is even
in the winter, there are animalsout and about it, even in city
parks and things that would be nibblingon her right right, yep. So

(29:41):
that tells me that she got dumped, like basically unceremoniously tossed into some sort
of storage meat lock or something.Because I can't, I can't think.
Here's here's a little bit more so. Part of the Jay's story was that
when they found the car, whichthey found the car because Jay told them
where it was, that the windshieldwiper a lever was broken off. And

(30:10):
Jay said that from what he wastold is that during the strangulation that Hey
had kicked it kicked it off.Now, they sent this piece off for
investigation and found out there was nofracture on the piece. It was removed
and the reason it was removed isbecause it's the only way to access the

(30:32):
ignition switch on her style vehicle,which means somebody was hot wiring the vehicle.
Now, on top of that,in this parking lot, in this
abandon parking lot where they found it, there were other cars. It is
a grass overtaken parking lot. Hercar where they found it had full patches

(30:59):
of green grass beneath it. Ifher car had been stored there for six
weeks, you would have seen alot of dead grass. They said there
was grass coming through the wheelwheel,and everything underneath it was still green.
So that another note means that thecar was not there for the full six
weeks. It was brought there atsome point later on. And I think

(31:26):
that if Jay didn't do it,he at least knows who really did do
it, and he's covering up thestory or helping cover it up. But
okay, so they didn't have thekeys to her car, so they removed

(31:47):
the lever to hot wire the car, drove the car to this lot like
it was there the whole time,right right, Okay, So that kind
of tracks, yes, And thenhe also had a pager. This is
ninety nine, so pages were stillsort of a thing. And she had

(32:07):
told a friend before she left schoolthat she was going to meet somebody.
But that's as far as we know, so the pagers missing. Nobody ever
found the pager, so she couldhave been meeting some random guy and that
he knows about. But the Jay'sfabrication of the story has got to be

(32:29):
some sort of a cover up ofsomething. The thing is all right,
So we have like a preponderance ofnebulous, varied evidence that makes very little.
There's very little connective tissue, right, and then that's that's it.

(32:52):
That's that's the thing is and theyfound so they found. The funny thing
is they didn't run DNA on almostanything. They found ad Noon's fingerprints on
like a book in her car,but again they dated, so it's you
know, they would have been inthe car before. Now let's jump to
what got him out of prison aftertwenty three years? What two thousand bullshit?

(33:16):
That doesn't have twenty thirteen. They'vegot DNA results twenty thirteen, which
is ridiculous to me. Got theDNA results from her body instead of the
clothing of her body. There weretwo distinct DNAs and neither one of them
was ad Noons. Ad no OnsDNA was nowhere on her body. That's

(33:44):
what cleared him and got him outof prison twenty three years later. So
whose DNA was on her? Theyhave not released the names of who they
were. It does say that theyare both in prison right now. One
of them was a rapist and theother one I don't remember what it was,

(34:06):
but they were related to the parkinglot owner of where her car was.
So so this whole time what Okay, what if? How about this?
Holy shit? Okay, so Jthinks Don did it. Don thinks

(34:30):
Jay did it. J thinks thatad Non did it. Right, everybody
thinks everybody did it. It wasactually some skeazy rapist that was related to
this parking lot owner, right,Who would know how that particular model to
hot wire it? Right? Ifthey're like towing cars all that shit.

(34:52):
Wouldn't that be crazy? If itwas those guys and it had nothing to
do with all these other people whowere pointing fingers at each other. And
that's what I think it is.That's exactly what I think happened. Dude,
Yeah, I don't. I don'tthink that any of them. I
think it was just a bunch ofhigh school drama that they got caught up

(35:15):
in and they were either enjoying itor they were scared in fabricating stories.
That's that's my view on it.And again, I'm not I'm not going
to say I not didn't do it. I'm not going to say that he
didn't know the person or get somebodyinvolved to do it for him. That
could have easily happened. But justbecause you're controlling and you come from a

(35:40):
culture that is very you know,masculine forward. Okay, you know,
Mexican culture is very masculine forwards.You know, I've spent time down in
Mexico and things and experienced that culturein the country. But that being said,

(36:00):
those harsh generalizations were like, well, of course you know he's he's
Muslim, so he must have,you know, if he lost control he
killed her. It's like, now, right, Okay, first of all,
is there any more Are there anynuggets? No? This is it?
Okay, I mean, I'm stillkind of caught up on I want

(36:22):
to know more about why Don's storyis the way that it was, Like
why did they decide that Don likeI don't know, like why did they
look into him or anything? He'she I don't believe that he was one
of the suspects because they would havelisted his name as a suspect. They

(36:42):
did say those two people had bothbeen arrested and had had previous charges of
certain things. And then there wasalso something that came up about a murder
in the same part a year priorto that to an eighteen year old girl
from that same high school. Wassimilar situations, so it could have literally
been just a one of these guysthat they've found the DNA of that had

(37:09):
nothing to do with this group ofkids. I think I think that's the
case. I mean because okay,so if we take if we take don
and separate him away from from thismorass, right right, it could have
simply been such a stupid story thatthe cops are like, dude, you
no, you know, it's likethis is this is just silliness. We

(37:30):
know better. And they had whatthey would call a good suspect or a
good lead. And if there was, you know, was a bias against
this kid because of his being Muslim, then they probably looked over a lot
of stuff, right well, well, the fact that they took the tests

(37:51):
and the money of this drug dealertoo. I mean, it's not like
even in the interview he talks abouthe's like, I'm not I wasn't selling
Nichols and dimes, Like I actuallyhad some connection and I knew some people
like he and that's why he wasfabricating the story because he didn't want to
give out information or names on peoplethat weren't involved. And but it's like,
all right, this guy's clearly gotsome criminal background and instead of you

(38:16):
know, going after him. You'renow utilizing him and almost using a fear
tactic to make him say the thingsthat you guys want to imprison this innocent
guy. Now again I'm not sayinganocent. I did say it, but
I don't know for sure because becausehe could have been involved still, I
don't know, could have been orcould have been a thing where they found

(38:37):
a good patsy. All right,nobody's gonna question it because the kid's Muslim,
so tossed him in the clink.Who gets a shit. Now they've
got a mid level drug dealer that'snot some streets ug. He's actually pushing
some weight. So now they've gothim to inform on people, you know,
and they're still letting him do histhing, but they're also you know,

(38:57):
getting information off him on the sideand start to you know, take
advantage of that. All the whilethere's an actual murderer out there that possibly
is a serial killer that had donesome damage, like you know, prior
in that same thing, and thisgirl was just a continuation of that pattern.
Yeah, And I want to say, with this being a case that

(39:22):
got to the point where it's atnow where it's not proven who it is,
but where we know it was not. This really hits home with the
perception aspect of this show, likethe fact that they went after this guy
of a Muslim descent, right andalmost warped the story to make it to

(39:42):
where it was him who did it. And it kind of throws that like,
how much can you really trust ourjustice system because we're not bringing justice
if we're using racism as a tacticto imprison somebody. And again they never
directly say it, but just basedon the testimony and the fact that one

(40:05):
thing as far as the lividity initself throws out that guy's whole testimony that
imprisoned him to begin with. Imean, it's clear and they didn't do
any DNA testing right off the bat, they didn't look at any other suspects
to not even close to the depththat they want to add on. So
it's like, clearly there's there's moreto this, and it fails on the

(40:28):
you know, our government. Yeah, and it's well, it's like that
old saying it better that you know, one hundred guilty men go free than
one innocent man go to jail,right, right, And this this sounds
like this is one hundred percent whatthat is. It sounds like we've got
an innocent guy that went to jailbecause he was guilty of being Muslim at

(40:50):
the time, and they had theperfect patsy and you know, it's easy
for you know this put the blinderson. It doesn't matter if you've got
all this outside noise as long asthey're focused on this, you know,
And none of none of the otherevidence was cleaning, you know what I

(41:12):
mean, Like it wasn't clean enoughwhere it's like we should really look at
this guy, you know, thelividity thing though, like that that's too
easy to look at though. Thatshocks me that the police department was so
cavalier about Yeah, we don't.We don't care about that. And it's

(41:34):
like, you know, even adope like me, who you know has
uh, I guess, rudimentary medicaltraining on a bunch of different levels,
knows I know what liberty looks like. Once you finally like reminded me like
that, that ship gets messed upbecause it makes for you know, it
bruises, like your body looks justcompletely bruised on that side. Right.

(41:59):
Oh yeah, it's it's nightmarish.Like there have been scenes that I've run
on that were bad and that Iknow a fellow emergency response workers where you
know, in the winter, there'sa story about somebody flipping upside down and
they ran on them and they'd beenout and upside down for I think it

(42:19):
was two days and they had beendead and when they got there, I
mean, you're just because of thepooling and everything, stuff's just misshapen and
it's like it's it's horrible, okay, and very if she was just basically
had a layer top to bottom.She was laying flat on her face,

(42:44):
straight up like so in my opinion, like I don't think that his story
matches it all with anything that couldhave happened. No, it doesn't,
Okay. So this person that ownedthe car lot, right, were their
garages and things on this car alot? No, it was just an
empty parking lot, huh, BecauseI'm thinking it just sounds like the drugger

(43:08):
into a shed like they murdered her, That's what I'm thinking, into some
sort of storage building that these guyshad and just she just laid in.
But that would explain why in thewinter in a storage building, nothing got
to her, nothing aid on her, but she stayed intact, and they
knew that they had to get ridof the body, took it several hundred

(43:30):
yards out into that park, andthen all of a sudden, this mister
s Yeah. So I mean withwith the car in the position that it
was, where it looked like itwas, you know, hot wired over
a parking lot full of grass withfresh grass underneath it, right, I

(43:52):
mean it I think that she wasuried pretty recent to when she was found.
Like, but at the same time, is there a stage where the
body is no longer stiff and startsto soften up because she was on her
side? Yeah? Absolutely, yeah, after that like that, after two
hours, the lock up happens andthen it like basically kind of like a

(44:15):
bell curve where it peaks up andthen it starts to go away, and
then eventually the body goes from rrto just you know, floppy doppy,
you know, it's just loose,right, So she must have yeah,
she must have just been faced downand then sitting there and she went,

(44:37):
for lack of better term, softagain and they picked her up and took
her out and dumped her in thewoods. You know, they had to.
They had a stored somewhere pretty Yeah, like you said, a shed
somewhere where she was untouched, becauseall they said was in any of the

(44:58):
information that I read, was theythe pointed out the lividity of the body
and the fact that the way shewas found in the grave was on the
right side, which does not relateto the story or the timeline that Jay
gives. Right not to mention thefact that there's no libidity in that portion
of her body too, right,Right, J being a high school stone

(45:20):
or you know, pot dealer,he's probably not smart enough to know that.
No. No, it sounds likethere's just a lot of people not
knowing what the hell they're talking about, right, and making the stories and
everything else, which also puts itto play the fact that none, none
of these things were brought up inthe trial, Like, none of it.
I mean, these are all thingsthat were found out later on were

(45:44):
not used in the case against thatnon and he appealed multiple times and his
I mean, did they just werethey just hidden? How did they find
this stuff out? Okay, sohow do they find this stuff out after
the fact? That's my question Becauseso there was a so both the families
were hiring pis and stuff like thatthroughout this whole thing. And ad On

(46:05):
had a very close friend her nameslike Raqueale something uh, and she was
trying to you know, she wasthe one who helped like get an attorney
and everything involved. And they wentthrough I think three different attorneys before they
got her and stuck with her.But the thing is that they weren't digging.
They weren't doing their job and actuallylooking at these things or requesting these

(46:30):
people to come to the stand oranything like that. And then you got
the force and the people who didthe investigation to begin with, who didn't
bring up who didn't even give ashit to look in these things. So
it just it makes more I feellike it's just more proof that they just
didn't want to look for anybody else. They wanted it to be add On.
Yeah, And it's I mean,I want to say prosecutor misconduct,

(46:54):
but I would definitely think that hehas a case to sue first three lawyers
right or I mean, I mean, god gross in confidence of nothing else
like and he got I mean hebarely, he didn't. I don't even
know that he graduated high school.He just got arrested when spent twenty three
years and he's still underneath underneath housearrest right now. I mean, he's

(47:20):
been robbed of alive. I know, I don't know, dude, if
you know what, once they clearhim, I hope, I hope he
sues the ship out of the policedepartment, the justice system there, because
you can't replace that tiiny loss ifhe's in the family, you know,

(47:40):
even the family. Like when hewas arrested, he didn't even like he
wasn't like he was a very calmdemeanor, like you know, the Lord's
gonna say, he's you know,always gonna protect me. It'll be okay,
Like I'm innocent. And the wholetime he was in there, he
was very adamant about I'm innocent.It wasn't me. Interviewed many times.
There's this podcast called Ceial that cameout the first season was all about add

(48:05):
Non's case. But when she actuallyinterviews him, and it almost seems like
she picks certain things out of theconversations, like to make it still questionable
and if it was him or not. And a lot of the people and
the feedback from that series is like, well, why does he sound so
calm and all this? And it'slike, well, this guy's is a

(48:27):
brand new podcast that people don't evenreally know what podcasts are around. It
is like twenty thirteen, it's somepretty new And he'd probably been interviewed numerous
times and probably just thought this wasanother interview because people are like, well,
he just didn't seem to be tryingto defend himself in the in the
series. But I mean again,if I had been interviewed one hundred thousand

(48:49):
times and this was just another interview, I'd probably be, you know,
the same thing I told him,same thing I told the last guy,
I would probably be more annoyed andbugged by it than anything than trying to
defend myself. So but this actuallythat's what this podcast serial got over one
hundred million downloads for his his caseJesus, and people like, we're very

(49:09):
interested, And that's kind of whatgot his fame on this right. Here's
the thing, man, Like,if you ever watch Murray Povich or the
Steve Wolco Show and used to beJerry Springer and everything, you know,
and they would do the not theDNA but the light detector test, which
is just a joke. You know, the guy that invented the damn thing.

(49:31):
Said it was just a trash invention, right, doesn't work. So
it's all in this one in court. But these people that are generally found
to be lying, you know,not telling the truth. You know,
if you won't put any stock inwhat the machine says, generally they are
freaking out and they're saying no,no, no, and there's like that'll

(49:54):
be thinks thou dost protest too much? Right? You know, so this
guy's calm demean or if he's justvery stoic as a matter of fact,
like no, I didn't do it, Like there's no you know, like
it could be you could lose yourshit and just be frothing at the mouth,
or you can accept your circumstances andjust be like, look, I'm

(50:15):
innocent and I'm going to proclaim myinnocence until you know, cooler heads prevail
in this thing. You shocked thathis lawyer, even if you just had
a PD, right, didn't lookinto every possible option. Or was it
a thing where maybe they were thesame way, maybe they're prejudiced, prejudice

(50:38):
or did they but you know whatI mean, like wanting to just make
this thing go away, like thisnice girl has been murdered. We've got
this horrible muscle of the threat thatwe've we've captured. So let's button this
up right right, because oh yeah, dude, it's a it's a It

(51:02):
was an intense case. And actuallyI had two other ones that I had
been researching and then this somebody mentionedit to me. So and actually the
person who who told me about itis like, my wife and I both
have really been into this case becauseshe's like, you know, pro that
he's innocent, and I think hedid it. And so I listened to
some stuff and I was like,oh, I mean just based on like

(51:28):
some of the facts behind, likethe status of the car, and really
what I focused on what got himthrown in prison, and how inaccurate that
information was, you know, becauseif we're if we're basing it specifically off
that he should have never got arrestedbecause none of it lines up. They

(51:51):
had no reason to. I mean, I mean they had reason, but
they had no I think legal basis. Scorn scorned lover, mad at his
X, decided to kill her andthat's what he's Muslim. So you know,
let's see, Oh God, ifthat's if that's the you know,
foundational uh, reasoning that they usedto put somebody in jail. Lock us

(52:14):
all up right, right, youknow, if if somebody kills an X
of ours, we'll all go tojail. Right. But yeah, that's
that's what I got for today's episodeof Singed Eye Sockets, everybody. And
you know it's I really enjoy doinga lot of the research that I've been

(52:35):
doing for these cases. And Inever give away too much because I feel
like, if you guys are reallyinterested in the case, you'll do you
you know, you'll go look lookmore into it, which is fine.
That's kind of what I want.It's all about perception. It's all about
me just presenting some facts and gettingthe interpretation of the audience. And I
guess and I think you and Ikind of agree that, you know,

(52:59):
I I don't think I none didit. I actually don't think that Jay
did it. I think it's whoeverthe DNA that they got one or both
of them. Dude, it's ana therefore b thing like I am.
When you as soon as you saidthat it was not broken off, because

(53:20):
that's why I did this motion.When you said that was like, oh
it got broken off? He said, no, it was removed, because
that's how you get to that thing. It's like in these are the guys
that would have that knowledge? Right, what other I mean? And who
would I mean, if anybody's gonnaknow maybe the drug dealer, the one
who admitted that he had some connections, probably know some people who know some

(53:43):
stuff which would relate to this.And the fact that J knew where the
car was because he's the one whoreported where the car was. So if
the car was moved there, somebodyhad to at least tip J off.
And even if it wasn't the personwho did it, it could have been
the cops or something. If they'reinvolved in him fabricating a story, they

(54:06):
could have found the car. Like, hey, you're going to say this,
but what's the motive? That's thething? You know, Yeah you
talk about I mean one of thethings. I mean that they use a
lot of time to zero in onwho it's any killing, who benefits from
the death, all right, ifit's not a murder of passion self defense,

(54:30):
then it's like, follow who benefitsthe most from the thing? And
really, you know, Ann doesn'ttruly benefit from it, you know,
I mean, yeah, you're mad, so you get a little bit of
a I guess, you know,like a endorphins, right, you get
a dopamine kick ash, she's dead, got you bitch? You know,
I mean, right, But it'sthat's not really motive. Motive. The

(54:57):
only thing that I got out ofthis that it was a little bit but
not even really that much. Likeoh maybe was that a lot of people
reported that ad Non wasn't even likelooking for her, but he said that
their whole group of friends was lookinginto it. So it's like I'd just
be one extra person, right,But again going back to the fact that

(55:24):
he might have just been like theywere broken up, right, Yeah,
okay, so it might have beendone with her, you know, sour
grapes, you know what, she'sgone. I mean, yeah, I'll
help, but like she was,you know, I mean that might have
been his perspective. But at thesame time, you know, you also
said, like he was at thelibrary right now, he could have been

(55:47):
with an alibi who they didn't evenbring to the stand. That's what I'm
saying, man, It's like thatthere were so many things that just point
away from this kid, and Ijust excuse me, I just don't think
he had a motive. It justdoes not seem like it's something where I
would point any sort of finger athim, right, And I have a

(56:09):
hard time believing Jay or Don didit with their loosely manufactured whatever if for
all we know, it could havebeen add Nod's family. They didn't like
the fact that they were together anyways, you know, it's entirely possible.
I actually don't think they did.But you know, she was a whore.

(56:34):
No, so the DNA and basedon the fact that the DNA that
they did find on the bodies andit being people who are imprisoned for rape
and something, so you know,something else and they don't even give like
evidence of who it is. Likethis was so again, they found this
DNA to twenty thirteen, so yearsago. This could have been closed years

(56:57):
ago. But when ad Non filedan appeal recently in the courts, this
information was requested and that's how theyfound out. But why so far late,
Like, I don't I still understandwhy it took so long for something
that was there the whole time.Looka who's involved? You know, maybe

(57:19):
they were a detective back in theday, but they might be chief of
police now, they might be adistrict attorney, right who loses by this
information coming out. But then powercorrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely,
and you have people in positions wherethey're going to lose their job, lose
their way of life, lose theirpower, you know, which they may

(57:42):
co it. They're going to dowhatever they can to make this thing go
away quietly and as quickly as possible. Right, that's my guess. So
I this sounds like a convergence ofa bunch of bullshit where you know what
I mean, like people are coveringand people are you know, like all
these different stories and it's just simplya matter of this girl came a foul

(58:06):
of a serial rapist and murderer,and now people are trying to cover their
ass. They were trying to covertheir ass back then. And if it
got out now that there was malfeasanceright right then that you know, and
god no, and it could bea domino effect because then you know,

(58:27):
you could look at all of youknow, like, well, if they
did it here, then they probablydidn't do their job on these other cases.
And now all of these appeals starthappening right right, so that it
can be somewhat disastrous. But shameon them. Shame on them if they

(58:47):
were you know, officers of thecourt and the various various you know jobs
that they had and they did whatthey did because it's their fault that this
is where it's at now. Andthis guy lost twenty three years of his
life, right, and he evenstill came out calm when he when he

(59:09):
got released, he was calm,Yes, smile on his face. I
mean, the only people crying werehis family and friends. This guy's probably
just a cool cat. When shebroke up with him, he's probably just
like man, it's okay, yeah, good, all right, people,
Again, another episode of Sins EyeSockets is done. I hope you guys

(59:32):
enjoy all these episodes. Hey,I know you guys have been watching because
there's been people watching this whole episode. Again, comments are there to be
to be utilized, guys. Youknow, I love to involve the audience
into the shows, especially, that'swhy I do them live. But even
if you just want to watch,I appreciate you guys. So until next
time, Sean, thank you forcoming on tonight. Always happy to be

(59:54):
here, man, and we'll seeyou guys around