Cabin 28 murders

In this episode we dive into a quadruple homicide known as the Keddie murders as well as Cabin 28.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
What's happening everybody. Welcome back to JJ's Lounge. I'm your
host jukebox and we I haven't been on here in
a few days. I don't think it's been it's been
a few minutes. But you know, it's always it's always,
it's always good to go live and uh, you know,
I've had this show pretty much prepped and ready for
about a week and a half now, and with schedules

(00:25):
between everybody, it's been kind of so yeah. Well we're
here for another episode of Sinners I Sockets tonight, everybody.
So thanks for all of you who are gonna tune
in or gonna listen. We appreciate you, guys, and we're
gonna continue doing content for all of you because we
know that you guys like it. We see the numbers
and it feels great. Evolution. Man, how the hell are you?

Speaker 2 (00:47):
Hey? Man, I'm doing real good. It's been a great
day looking forward to this. I mean, we do it
different times of the day, but uh, I'm ready to go.
I've loved the sin as I like episode we do
and the very interesting and I just I just really
like getting into it and trying to figure out what's

(01:09):
going on.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
Right yeah, and the last sent we did we had
a Corey Castle with us. We did a scorched episode
where we kind of discussed the serial killer a little bit.
I wouldn't say it's more intense, but it's more like
on a personal level, it's just a single singular person
rather than where we tackle cases, which I do want
to start throwing those in more often. I do like it.
I think it turned out great. It was a bit morbid,

(01:33):
but it was a lot of fun, just like all
these are. All these are a lot of fun. I
do a lot more research, and uh, it feels good.
You know. It's kind of get me back into my
older days where I actually would read stuff. You know,
a comedy shows not nearly as you know it's it's
it's so much more brainless than this show is. And

(01:56):
I feel like if I came into this with the
same mindset as I did with stardom, It'd probably not
be as interesting of a show because I'd be more
ums and odds and not knowing what I'm talking about. Right, So, yeah,
that's where we're going. We have a lot of guests
lined up over the next probably month or two that

(02:19):
we're gonna get on multiple shows. I kind of went
over with Evolution before. I do want to give a
shout out to Kyle Mint. He's been sending us actors, actresses,
film directors that I've been getting in contact pact with,
and I'm like, man, all right, cool, I appreciate you, man,
but let's hit hit the brakes for a second. Let
me reach out to this two dozen people that you

(02:40):
just sent me, and uh, we're gonna make this happen. So, uh, yeah,
we look forward to that. I do have one of
his buddies and Marcus McIntosh will be on Sunday Morning
with Kyle Mint, which Evolution. You're welcome to join in
as well. All right, but yeah, that's what we're doing

(03:00):
tomorrow morning. We might even do a show. I'm not
sure yet because this is a late night show, so
we'll see. It really just depends on if I have
the ability to wake up. And so look forward to
that's ASMR podcast. I also got set up and ready.
That one's a lot of fun. Evolution knows and we
just crack up. It's the most ridiculous show. It's a

(03:23):
lot of fun and it just it's nice to laugh
sometimes for no reason.

Speaker 2 (03:29):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely man, it gets those good vibes going,
you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (03:36):
Right right, all right, man, You know I've been yapping
for the intro and I do it because I love
kind of smoothing our way into the episode. So today
we have the Kenny Cabin murder murders are also known
as the Cabin twenty eight murders. Are you familiar with this?
I am not good. That's good, all right, that's the

(04:00):
end of the show. Everybody have a good day until
next time. All right. So this it's nineteen eighty one,
is when this murder happens. But a real quick rundown
about the family. This is Glenna Susan Sharp, also known

(04:22):
as Sue Sharp. She's the mother. You got fifteen year
old son John, that's the one on the left. The
picture is a little bit older than their age. This
is their age as when they passed when all of
this went down with the murderer. So you got fifteen
year old son John up to the top left. You've
got the oldest daughter, which is a fourteen year old Sheila,

(04:45):
twelve year old Tina in the back right you got
ten year old Rick, and then you also have Greg,
which she's holding. So those are older pictures, but this
is a family that we're going to talk about. So
Sue Sharp in nineteen seventy nine decides to move from
North Carolina to California because she's leaving her husband, James Sharp,

(05:09):
who was physically abusive, and it was just wasn't a
great relationship. He was in the military, it was when
he was home, it just wasn't great. And she realized
wasn't the best fit for them. So she had a
brother named Don Don Thomas who lived in northern California,
and he decided to let them come stay with him.

(05:33):
Had a trailer in Quincy, California's Northern California's in the
Plumis County, California. Real pretty like small remote county up
in the mountains. I mean this you're talking about tourism
camping out in the woods somewhere. You see hikers, and
it's not really the place that you would see. You know,

(05:56):
a lot of murders happening. And she moves her family out.
There's her, her five kids, and she gets a job
at a lodge in Quincy, which is a small town there.
The population is about twelve hundred. It's real small town.
She's a job at part time job at this lodge.
She's doing a typing class in town so that she

(06:22):
could get stiphens to kind of help support her family,
on top of some military funds from the Navy from
her ex husband, James, who's so she's getting like two
hundred and fifty months from him. So she was struggling
single mom, but she's doing the best for her kids,
and after a while she ends up having enough money

(06:44):
to kind of get her own place, so she moves
her family to the small town of Kenny, California. The
population was like one hundred people at most. It's very small.
There's not a lot going on in Kendy. This is
actually sort of a map of Kenny. Kenny was built
for mining and in a coal town. There's a train

(07:06):
track down on the right side there that runs right
by Kendy, and this whole area is basically like a
little like almost campsite full of cabins. And when it
was first built, they were real fancy cabins and a
lot of it was train conductors or miners that would
stay in them while they were there in town. Eventually

(07:29):
it became a more low income housing and that's why
she moved her family here and they were happy. It
was a small, little, small, little cabin town. And it
was a ketty resort. I mean real, real pretty looking
looking in town there. But actually that's that's not it.

(07:51):
I was just joking. This is actually, uh ketdy the
ketty resort. We're real, real fancy looking right down middle
of the woods.

Speaker 2 (08:07):
Community, five five star right there.

Speaker 1 (08:09):
Yeah, real five star, low income housing, and the cabins
don't look a whole lot better. This is actually cabin
number twenty eight that she moved into right here, real small,
dingy little cabin that no longer exists of it. Actually,
the community decided to tear the cabin down because they
were getting too much you know, negative tourism and just

(08:31):
people coming. After the murders, this whole community kind of
went downhill. There are still some people that live in
the community, but for the most part it's vacant, and
I think the last census said something like the population
was sixty nine. I mean it's practically nothing.

Speaker 2 (08:51):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (08:52):
So she's struggling, but the kids are happy. They're in
the small old community. They have friends in the neighborhood
they can play with, and things are going good for her, Like,
the family's not unhappy, you know. So they're about seven
miles away from Quincy, where they've originally moved, and that's
where she's got her part time job and she's doing

(09:15):
the best you can for her family. And it's April
eleventh of nineteen eighty one, is the day where all
of this kind of goes down. So what I'm gonna
do is, I'm gonna give you a timeline of the day,
and then I'm gonna kind of break down the murder
and then some of the ideas of who the suspects

(09:37):
could be. Okay, So around eleven thirty, Sue Sharp with
her daughter Sheila and the oldest son, the middle aged
son Rick, drive to Quincy to pick up their son, John,
the oldest, from a baseball practice and they come home

(09:59):
with him and his buddy Dana. So at this time,
her oldest son, John is fifteen and his friend Dana
lives in Quincy and they're like best buddies. They're known
for kind of hitchhiking back and forth between Kenny and Quincy,

(10:21):
and they've actually kind of have a little bit of
a history of being kind of trouble kids, like involved
in drugs and stuff like that, which during the investigation,
there's no proof in the house of any narcotics or
any sort of drug paraphernalia, So this is all sort
of hearsay based on just, you know, some of the

(10:41):
people that they have investigated during this whole thing. So
she brings them home and they're all hanging out at Saturday,
this is a Saturday, and then Dana and him at
some point later in the day decide to hitchhik back
to Quincy to go to a party. Are are you
kind of on board at the moment? Later that day,

(11:07):
her daughter, Sheila and Tina decide to go to the
next door neighbors in Cabin twenty seven, the Seabolts family,
and Tina and Sheila are hanging out, and Sheila decides
that she's going to have a sleepover at the sea
Bolt's house, but she sends Tina home, which is the

(11:28):
younger sister, around nine to thirty that night. At this point,
all we know is that Tina goes home. The boys,
the oldest one, John and his friend Dana, are gone.
They're back in Quincy at some party, is what we're told,

(11:50):
and there's apparently drug activity at this party. The next morning, well,
the youngest sons, sorry the Rick and Greg, the youngest boys,
are having a sleepover in the back room of the
cabin twenty eight with their buddy Justin Smart, who lives

(12:10):
in cabin twenty nine. I believe there's a lot of
different cabin numbers. Anyways, it's one of the neighbors. It's
one of the neighbors cabins, Justin Smart staying the night
with them. So they're in the back room hanging out,
and Sheila's next door. So that's all we know as

(12:32):
far as what the day's kind of plan was. Between
seven and eight in the morning, Sheila wakes up to
go back to her cabin, and when she opens her
front door, the first thing she sees is her oldest brother, John,
dead and covered in blood on the floor. Wow, right
inside the living room. And she screams obviously, which I

(12:57):
don't understand why you wouldn't. He didn't even notice Dana
and Sue, who were also murdered in the house in
the same room. Well, let's see, I took up a
picture of the kind of layout of the living room.
It's not the best image, but so when you walk
in the front door, This is kind of you see,
it's obviously not the prettiest cabin. So her brother John

(13:20):
is towards the bottom. This is after the crime, so
you don't really see anybodies because we're going Dana was
resting his head on this like pillow cushion in like
the middle of the floor, and then his mom, Sue
was at the foot of the bed on the ground
on her side. She was naked from the waist down.

(13:43):
Her panties and bendana were stuffed into her mouth and
they were she was tied up and she had her
throat slit. So Sheila, after she sees her brother, she
decides she runs back to the Sea Bowls family and

(14:04):
they immediately contact the authorities, and she sends her oldest
son Jamie, back to the cabin to check because Sheila
was frantic and she didn't want, you know, obviously her
going back. So Jamie comes over. He opens the door
all the way. He sees John, Dana, his friend, and

(14:27):
is and Sue sharp on the floor in front of
the sofa when the cops are when he walks through,
he goes back to the back and he sees that
the boys are still there, sound asleep. All three of them,
and so instead of waking them up, he decides to

(14:49):
go out, which this was really smart him. I do
want to give him props for this one. He goes out,
and he goes around to the boy's room's window and
he helps him out the window. That way they don't see, yeah,
what's going on in the room, which was I think
it was really smart on his end, Really smart kid.

(15:09):
The cops show up, and at this point, nobody even
acknowledged that Tina was missing, the younger daughter, which is
crazy because you think that would have been something that
everybody was like, where's Tina? But she loves probably I
can understand in a sense because she Loa is probably frantic.

(15:29):
She's not even thinking because of what she witnessed. Right,
and then Jamie went and helped, So they didn't even
realize that Tina was missing. At this point. All they
knew was the at a crime scene. Wikipedia says, well,
first off, what are are you kind of caught up?
Do you have any questions? So far?

Speaker 2 (15:50):
No, I'm following along pretty.

Speaker 1 (15:51):
Good, good good. Let's see here. M sorry, bear with
me a second here. I feel like I'm moving too
fast for myself. I'm trying to get okay, let's see here,
did okay all it says. When the police arrived, they

(16:16):
found Sue, John, and Dana in the house living room.
All three had been bound with medical tape and an
electrical tape. Tina was absent from the home, while the
three younger children were found unharmed in the back room.
Sheila rushed back to the Sea Bulls, which sorry went
over that the murders of Sue, John and Dana were

(16:36):
especially vicious. Two bloodied knives and one hammer were found
at the scene. Blood splatter evidence from inside the house
indicated that the murders had all taken place in the
living room. Sue was discovered lying on her side near
the living room sofa, nude from the waist down, gagged
with the blue bananana in her underwear, which had been
secured with tape. She'd been stabbed in the chest and

(16:58):
her throat was stabbed horse zonie passing through her laryns
and making her spine very brutal. That's very brutal. Lot.
Somebody had to really try like that. Somebody had it
out for her. I mean, that's that's a very vicious
way to die. And they also found the butt imprint

(17:21):
of a Daisy eighty power line BB pellet rifle. John's
throat was slashed. Dana had multiple head injuries and had
been manually strangled to death. So John and Sue were
the only two who actually had their throats cut. Wow.
And the investigators even said that this took time. It

(17:43):
wasn't like a rushed thing because of how much blood
there was and because of like the condition of the bodies.
Whoever did this took their time. The weird part is
that nobody heard anything out. These are very tiny cabins.
I showed you the picture of cabin twenty eight. There

(18:04):
are very small walls, not very you know, insulated, and
nobody there was one family that said around one fifteen
that they heard some muffled noises but they didn't think
anything of it.

Speaker 2 (18:18):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (18:20):
But other than that, nobody heard anything. So that's where
we're at right now. What you got um her X.

Speaker 2 (18:31):
Is military right. Yes, I'm thinking he founder a tractor somehow,
and he.

Speaker 1 (18:39):
Did show up at one point after they moved, and
that was the only time they ever saw him again.

Speaker 2 (18:46):
I'm thinking it's not the last time that uh, Sue
and John saw thinking he came back with a rage
of vengeance that you know, and because the two of
them were the oldest, they probably were trying to you know,

(19:07):
stand up against him or whatever. But because he would
have those type of that type of training, he probably
could have just snuck in there and nobody would have
knew anything, you know what I mean, and by the
time they figured it out, it was too late. But
what really has me puzzled, well, not puzzled, but well, yeah,

(19:34):
I'll say puzzled is how she was nude from the
waist down and kind of gagged. It's almost like one
of those passionate deals where somebody who's snapped like an
ex would probably go that route.

Speaker 1 (19:53):
And that is one thing that the investigator said is
that this is based on the condition of the bodies
of John and Seuss specifically, it almost seemed like whoever
was had vengeance, like it was like a vengeance kind
of murderer.

Speaker 2 (20:06):
Yeah, yeah, no, I that ahead.

Speaker 1 (20:10):
Yeah. At this point, they're starting to ask around to
the neighbors and one of the kids that stayed the
night there, justin Smart. His parents Marilyn Smart and uh
stepdad James Smart. Don't know it is his dad. Sorry,
they they start looking into them, and they questioned them

(20:33):
about if if there was anything weird, and Martin Smart
mentions that one of his hammers had gone missing recently,
which they didn't mention anything about the hammer, so they
thought that was kind of suspicious at first. So Martin,
let me tell you a little bit about Martin Sharp here.

(20:55):
So let's see here, this is good old Martin Sharp.
He is a retired vet going to he's going to
PtD PTSD classes. He has anger issues. He works at

(21:15):
the so So Ketty Resort is a bunch of cabins
and at one point it was a very prominent little community.
They had a bar and grill that still was active
at this time, and he was a cook at the
bar until the day of this incident, which apparently he

(21:35):
gets terminated from his job. But he's going to therapy
for his anger issues, and even Marilyn was discussing that
she was leaving him. When they were doing the investigation,
they found out that she was in the process of
leaving him. But also at this time, while he was

(21:58):
going to some of his classes, he meets this guy Bo.
I don't know Bo's last name. That's the interesting thing.
But Bo and him knew each other for a few
weeks and at this point during the murders, he is
living on their couch with in their home with Martin
and Maryland. Wow, and they're like inseparable people. All the

(22:20):
neighbors talk about how for a few weeks he was
living with them and he's just they're in several together.
Bo does have some crime affiliation. He was imprisoned at
one point connected to some mafia back in Vegas, and
I think this might play a factor into it. And

(22:40):
on top of this, the county sheriff that is over
this investigation is friends with Martin HM, So I think
that could play a little bit into this because they
investigate these two together. And I want to get into
which is weird, because you don't if you have suspects,
you don't investigate these guys together.

Speaker 2 (23:00):
It's not something.

Speaker 1 (23:03):
So they have their suspicions of Martin and what happened
is Martin discusses when they come in that that night,
Martin and Bo and his wife Marylyn go to the
bar in their little community. They're having drinks about nine
nine thirty. They leave to go back to their house.

(23:24):
Maryland stays home. Marty or Martin and Bo go back
to the bar and continue to drink, and she says
that she Marilyn said that she she wouldn't be surprised
if it was Martin because of his anger issues. But

(23:46):
that's where we're at so far. But we also discussed
that John and his buddy Dana we're kind of, you know,
troublemakers and Quincy. That night they were going to a
party in Quincy where there was some a few witnesses
that said there were drugs at the party, And I'm thinking,

(24:08):
what if maybe they got to ride back from somebody
who they owed money to, or they stole some drugs
and somebody followed them back home, they could have potentially
done it. But you got this is on the bottom right,
that's a Dana, that's a seventeen year old, and John's

(24:30):
the one on the top.

Speaker 2 (24:32):
Okay, did you ever find a little girl?

Speaker 1 (24:36):
No, we'll get to that, okay. Okay, So again, the
first the first half of the day, they didn't even
realize that she was missing. So I think that's pretty
crappy on the side of the cops too. No kid
to miss that, And honestly, I think that could have
been a very crucial time to find her, you know,
with your drug snuffing dogs, scouring the neighborhood's community, you know. Woods.

(25:02):
After about three months, the case pretty much goes cold
as far as looking for Tina. Really yes, interesting, Yeah,
what do you got so far? I mean, what are
you thinking?

Speaker 2 (25:20):
Well, now, as you mentioned Martin and Bowl and him
having anger issues and PTSD, right, definitely adds a new
angle to the the story. The storyline for sure, I

(25:42):
would say they when they went back to the bar
to drink, right, and they separated from everyone else. To me,
they kind of it's like an alibi, right, Yes, I'm
thinking and because they were friends and uh, the what's

(26:06):
amost the other guy?

Speaker 1 (26:07):
He's like a both.

Speaker 2 (26:09):
Yeah, he was like an officer or something.

Speaker 1 (26:12):
No, he was, He wasn't inmate. He did time for
some gang affiliations in Vegas, and he met Martin a
few years back at some of the the meetings that
he was going to the for whatever the anger issues.
And then Martin that's how they met and they became friends.

(26:32):
And but Martin he was he was he retired navy.

Speaker 2 (26:37):
Okay, Yeah, so they they could have put together a
masterpiece of a Slaughterhouse is uh episode.

Speaker 1 (26:47):
Right, and there they talk about so Martin for some
reason was not fond of the oldest son John mm hmm.
Apparently he didn't like Maryland talks about he be how
he was a fond of or he didn't like him
because he was kind of a troublemaker with that Dana kid.
And then she also talks about how Bo makes comments

(27:08):
about liking Sue, and apparently that night they even asked
Sue if she wanted to go out and have some
drinks with them, and she'd turn him down. So if
you got two guys that potentially have hot head issues,
one doesn't like the sun, one's pissed at the mom
because she turns him down. Possibly they've been drinking all night.

(27:31):
Martin apparently had lot. He didn't tell the picopsis, but
from the investigation, they found out that he was either
fired that day or the day prior, within a few
days from that place that he was getting drunk at.
You know, Maryland's separating from him, so he's already having
some I mean, you got pts got angry issues. I

(27:51):
could see a lot of these things kind of adding up,
no kidding, Well, now, my biggest issue with this so
far is because already my immediate suspects are Martin and Bell.

Speaker 2 (28:09):
Mhm.

Speaker 1 (28:10):
Those are the first guys I want to be looking at,
especially because he mentions that his hammer goes missing without
even knowing that there was a hammer at the scene.

Speaker 2 (28:18):
Yeah, that definitely jumped out when you said it. I'm like, okay,
that's why. That's what I'm just thinking ahead of a
new dynamic to the story. However, they all have military backgrounds, yes,
Martin Bull and her ex Yes, So I'm thinking there
might even be a connection there, possibly.

Speaker 1 (28:44):
I mean, I don't really see much more about that though,
I mean, uh, they do. They do talk about a
The Seabolt family mentions that at round nine o'clock that
night they did see a green van, a dark green
van in the neighborhood that was not familiar. No, nobody
was really familiar with the vehicle. And then one other

(29:05):
family had mentioned seeing that same van later that night
in the area. So they're kind of looking at that
van trying to figure things out too. So Martin and
Bo aren't really suspect right now when they investigate them.
You know, Martin's story is a little different than Maryland's
because Martin's is, Yeah, we went to the bar. Yeah,

(29:28):
she went home to sleep. Yeah, went back to the bar.
Maryland's side of the story is that they went home,
she was ready to go to sleep. They were getting
drunk and bligerent. She says that they changed into suits
and goes back to the bar. So they dress up
and go back to the bar, and she says she

(29:48):
remembers them around two point thirty back at the home
burning something in the wood stove, and she said she
was still kind of out of it, so she wasn't
sure what they were burning. And Mark Marden says that, uh,
there was just wood, that's all it was. So, I mean,
they don't really look into it. They do find out

(30:08):
that the hammer that was at the crime scene wasn't his.
He didn't There were no prints on it that would
say it was his.

Speaker 2 (30:18):
It is.

Speaker 1 (30:18):
It is actually found at a pond nearby. Uh, later
on when there's some guy fishing for a wedding ring
that they lost and he finds the hammer, so that
that ends up being his hammer. So but I don't
know that they used it.

Speaker 2 (30:33):
I don't.

Speaker 1 (30:34):
I don't know if that was just kind of a
throw off the case, like knowing if you know, with Martin,
with his military background, maybe he's attle kind of clever
enough to figure that out.

Speaker 2 (30:43):
M M.

Speaker 1 (30:44):
Just as like it to throw it. And and they
talk about how everything's Martin saying is kind of redirected
toward makes him look innocent, like whatever he's selling his
side of the story is more portraying like away from him. Yes,
and it bugs me because the chief investigator is friends

(31:04):
with him, you know, their their friends.

Speaker 2 (31:07):
Yes, Okay, that's the connection I was trying to make up.
Yeah earlier. Yeah, that's that's cover up all day.

Speaker 1 (31:16):
Well, and they have so the Department of Justice is
usually sent out for this kind of stuff during an investigation,
and they don't send out the City of California ends
up sending somebody from la that is not from that
it's like some other subdivision class. And uh, they even
bring in a sketch artist that's not even very amateur.

(31:38):
And they talked to Justin, the oldest son of Martin,
when he was staying the night in the room with
the boys, because Justin, during the investigation, was talking to
the cops about how he had a dream that night
about being on a boat. And witnessing two men killing

(32:03):
Sue Wow, and how he remembers trying to comfort Sue
and put blankets over her head to kind of help
with the blood. And that's the story that he tells
the cops. But later on he goes to a therapist
for hypnosis where he tells her maybe I wasn't dreaming, yeah,

(32:27):
And then he says he says he remembers going to
the door because he heard something and cracking the door
open and seeing two men, one with his hair slipped back,
wearing glasses, and the other man might have had a mustache. Now,
let me pull up this picture again of the of
the picture of Martin and and and Bo, because this

(32:53):
is this Here is Martin and Bow all right, and
I already pulled this picture up once he's got long
slick care Martin doz glasses he could put glasses on.
We don't know if Bo has a mustache at the
time of this or not. But I did pull up
a sketch of what they came up with. Okay, here

(33:16):
it is. This is based on Justin's story.

Speaker 2 (33:21):
Hmm.

Speaker 1 (33:22):
It's it's not great because the amateur are sketch artists anyways,
but there are some similarities that could point to them, you.

Speaker 2 (33:33):
Know, Yeah, a lot of similarities. So I don't know.

Speaker 1 (33:38):
I mean, everything's starting to kind of point towards them.
Let's see here, what else do I have.

Speaker 2 (33:50):
I'm thinking everything should point towards them. I mean, they
were the last ones to be seen with Sue and John.

Speaker 1 (34:00):
Yeah, and I still think that there is the possibility
that that John and Dana could have brought somebody back
or gotten right back with from somebody, or been involved
in some sort of a drug That's just small possibility.
I mean, I'm definitely thinking it's it's it's Martin and Bow.
But I could see the playout of John and Dana

(34:25):
going to a party and if they're mischievous children, maybe
stealing drugs or not paying or something, and then getting
held at gunpoint or something and brought back to the
cabin and this all going down. The problem with that theory, though,

(34:48):
is the way that the deaths were were a little
too intense for just somebody who didn't know them to
just go in there and do that.

Speaker 2 (34:58):
I think they definitely knew them, especially when there was
nobody hearing any noise or muff, you know, the sounds
were muffled. To me, they didn't break in. They were
letting right, you know, so so they knew who it
was when they got there, and then everything went down

(35:24):
after that.

Speaker 1 (35:25):
What I don't understand though, is there was no noise
like there's there's no like nobody hears anything, Like how
is how is it playing out the way that it like?
Because the way that they were killed and how gruesome
it was, you think there would have been some sort
of altercation something like that. They had been been bound

(35:49):
first so that they couldn't do anything.

Speaker 2 (35:51):
Not if drugs were involved. I mean, if they were high.

Speaker 1 (35:56):
They came back drunk. If they came back drunk or high, uh,
maybe they were confused. But they're getting hit in the
head with hammers and getting their throats slit Dana being strangled.
I mean, I don't know. They could have even been
brought in already beat up, you know.

Speaker 2 (36:17):
I mean, it doesn't really take a lot. Uh, when
when you get hit in the head with a hammer,
you're pretty much done, depending on how hard it is.
And say same with the the slicing of a throat.
If it's deep enough, you're not gonna make any noise
anywhere you're just gonna be you know. Yeah. Uh, so

(36:39):
there might be the muffled sound that the person heard.

Speaker 1 (36:42):
A right, And I don't think that there's a lot
of relevance to the green van. I mean, anybody could
have been passing through or stopping. I mean, I don't
know that there could be because it's not Martin's vehicle
unless they bought this cheap vehicle specifically for this.

Speaker 2 (37:00):
But if the little girl was missing, then there was
relevance for the green.

Speaker 1 (37:05):
Van, right, And and there was a post for this
green for a green van being sold around this time too.
He could have gotten it specifically for this. So another
weird angle at this is is that some of the

(37:28):
investigators that weren't at the higher level. I think that
maybe it was a cover up story that it Martin
and and Bo were not suspects, because Bo could have
been an informant for the FBI and got out because

(37:49):
he was helping them find some bigger.

Speaker 2 (37:52):
Game because he knew the the mafia.

Speaker 1 (38:01):
He was originally arrested for mafia relations in Las Vegas
and then he was released, but the the the way
that he was released was suspicious, and the fact that
the government wasn't sending the proper people for this murder case.
I mean, we're talking about a very small community. It's

(38:22):
not they don't have the very best. They're not used
to this, you know, they should have been sending very good,
uh you know, Department of Justice people, and they weren't.
They sent amateur sketch artists. They got people that didn't
even know that Tina was gone for half the day,
and they do. They end up bringing drug dogs in
and sniffing dogs in, and they do track er sent

(38:46):
down to several cabins down. There's no there's nothing there
saying that, you know, anything happened there, And eventually the
case goes cold for her because there's nothing, there's nothing
to come up, you know. However, three years later, in
nineteen eighty four, Ah, a metal or I got. You know,

(39:08):
there's people that go out in the woods and they
bring their metal detectors searching for stuff. And this guy
comes across a part of a human school. It's about
sixty four miles away from the Katie area, and this
ends up being Tina. So she she did pass away.

(39:29):
She was found found the woods, uh, some articles of clothing,
but she was so gone from nature because it's been
so many years that they couldn't tell how she died.
And and if anything, it brings a little bit of
rest for Sheila and and her her brothers and sister,

(39:49):
you know, knowing that she's been found at least, but
that the case goes cold. Martin, Martin, and and Bo
end up dying years later, just free three men. They
have no other suspects, and it's just it's just a

(40:10):
weird crime. I mean, I don't know, man, there's not
a lot of information pointing towards anybody but Martin and Bow.
I think that maybe their connections benefited them.

Speaker 2 (40:26):
Oh absolutely. You know, when when you're in a house
that far out in the middle of nowhere with not
a lot of people, would you say less than one hundred, Yeah,
go around one hundred that eventually got less than one hundred.

(40:46):
Small towns like that always creep me out because anything
and everything can happen, and they can shut it down, right,
you know what I mean, they can cover it up.
I still think that Bo and Martin knew at least

(41:07):
knew her ex and then when they went back to
the bar or whatever, gave him a call and say, hey,
we know where she is. You know, you've been looking
for him. They're here, Yeah, you know what I mean.
And I think he tore through town and with his

(41:32):
military background, you know, got a sneak in and he
snuck up in there or and and did whatever he did,
you know.

Speaker 1 (41:44):
Well, And there's also the theory that Martin was also
a drug addict mm hmm, along with the drunk and
what if maybe he was part of like that community's
connection with drugs. Maybe what if John and Dana were

(42:07):
involved in some drug relations in Quincy, and then Martin
was maybe one of the higher up guys, and if
he already didn't like John, you know, there's there's just
more that could kind of tangle it together to make
it more valid for him to be the one that
does it. True, No no argument there, and I don't

(42:31):
see I really don't see any other suspect. There's no
there's there. It's got to be somebody who knows them.
We know that, and there's really nobody else during the
investigation that comes up to it could be a possible suspect.
And the fact that they got let let go Scott
free because they can you know, there wasn't enough evidence

(42:51):
to say it was them. Whatever it's it's disturbing because
it just shows sort of like favoritism for one which
in and a thing that favoritism should not be evolved.
If anything, that chief should not have been involved at all.
I mean he I don't think he should have been

(43:13):
involved in that investigation whatsoever because he was friends with Barton,
So if they became a suspect at all, which they
were interrogated, then he should have been out.

Speaker 2 (43:27):
Well, I mean, he does do that type of stuff
for a living, so he could have actually designed the whole.

Speaker 1 (43:38):
Thing, right, the chief, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (43:42):
Mm hmmm, because he knew that, you know, the chief did.

Speaker 1 (43:50):
He lived in that cabin before they did. He actually
moved out and then they ended up purchasing the cab.

Speaker 2 (43:57):
So it could have been another way in there that
only he knew about, right, you know, nobody would have
seen him going in there. And if they were already
you know, hil drugs, they weren't gonna make too much noise,
you know, right.

Speaker 1 (44:14):
But the even the the the story that they get
out of justin the sun and what he sees and
witnesses and also for me, gives credibility to the fact
of it being them.

Speaker 2 (44:34):
Yeah, yeah, but I mean he's a younger kid, right,
what was he Uh?

Speaker 1 (44:42):
Yeah, he was the oldest of the three boys. He
was twelve. Yeah, Greg was five, Rick was ten, and
he was twelve.

Speaker 2 (44:53):
M So nobody's really going to pay attention to a
twelve year old not in a serious way. Yeah, especially
up against the words of someone who's an officer in some.

Speaker 1 (45:10):
Way, right, And when they talked, when they originally talked
to him, and he tells the story about being on
dreaming about being on a boat and seeing two men
killing Sue and him trying to help comforter. Even under hypnosis,
he mentions it comforting, or he talks about seeing through
the door and he says, hey, maybe I wasn't dreaming,

(45:30):
maybe I actually saw it, you know. And this was
under hypnosis, which, unfortunately hypnosis has been ruled out as
a prominent factor in a case, like you can't use
you can't use hypnosis to prove somebody guilty.

Speaker 2 (45:45):
Right.

Speaker 1 (45:46):
However, when he does go under hypnosis and he says,
you know, I wasn't dreaming, I was actually there and
I saw it, And he talks about actually going out
there and trying to help sue and like to cover
to kind of help with the blood m I mean,
these are details that a twelve year old shouldn't really
know exactly, you know. So I think it kind of

(46:11):
helps validate between the descriptions of Bow and Martin and
the description of the sketches. I don't think that there's
any way for them to point at anyone else. And
the fact that Martin during the investigation was just kind
of leading his side of the story away from him.

(46:35):
You know, it's it's sketchy, it's more proof in my opinion. Okay,
this is the this is the guy, you know?

Speaker 2 (46:45):
Uh yeah, I mean definitely they had something to do
with it, if not the actual committing of the murders,
but they're definitely tied to this somehow. And I don't trust.
So you got a guy who's been in prison, you know,

(47:06):
who's cool with the guy who's in law, and murder
happens in the case things of the going.

Speaker 1 (47:16):
Cold right well, and Marilyn mentions them not coming back
home till two thirty of the morning. Now, another resident
that said that they woke up around one point fifteen
and heard the stuff going down. I mean, this is
a timeframe that adds up, and even Martin said that
they went back to the bar. As far as other

(47:39):
people witnessed or that were there, there's not a lot
of feedback as to when they left, so we don't know. Yes,
Cavin twenty eight is Kendy, we are discussing, Kenny. Thank
you for tuning in. We're kind of we've already kind
of talked about the case and we're kind of given

(48:01):
our ideas of what we think happened. If you are
familiar with the case, two of the suspects is Martin
Smart and his buddy Bo, and they both have like
PTSD issues and anger issues, and they have a connection

(48:22):
with this family in the sense that, oh she is familiar.

Speaker 2 (48:27):
Nice.

Speaker 1 (48:29):
Again, we already started kind of wrap this up. So
but with the way that Sue was murdered with the
slash to the throat so deep that it hit the spine,
being deep pants and having her underwear again and being gagged,
that's to me is and itself shows that there's somebody

(48:51):
that is involved with the family somehow and has reason
for doing what they're doing. And again Bo, we find
doubt from Maryland, which is Martin's wife, that Bo had
a thing for Sue, like he had mentioned her many
times about how he liked her. That night before they
went to the bar, they invited her to go out.
She denies it. Martin, on the other hand, doesn't like

(49:13):
John the oldest son, and he's also got his throat slit.
But his buddy Dana doesn't. He's just strangled, you know,
So he gets the lightest of the three murders.

Speaker 2 (49:30):
I'm gonna go ahead and say that you are really
accurate in how you point out the possibility of them
doing especially when you highlight it with the images that
are drawn, even though they're poor sketches, but they are
in line with what they look like.

Speaker 1 (49:52):
Yeah, so these are the sketches. And then this is
a picture of Martin Smart and his buddy bo They
aren't They've only known each other for a few weeks
and their buddy buddy, he's living on their couch, I mean, inseparable.

(50:12):
So if one of them decides we're going to do it,
the other one's gonna back him up. You know that.
That's just gonna have it be. You got crime affiliations
with bouh. You've got a retired vet that's got PTSD
and anger issues, and he lost his job, his wife's
leave at him. Hey, I'm gonna get drunk and I
want to kill somebody who want to kill m you know.

(50:36):
So I mean that's I just think that there's too many,
too many things that points to them. Again. I think
that there's the possibility that John and Dana could have
brought somebody back with them, But I don't know, you
know what I'm saying, I don't think I don't think
there's any based on the intensity of the crime and

(51:00):
in the fact that there's blood literally everywhere. I mean,
they spent time killing these these people, and yeah, and
they were quiet about it, which means it probably knew
the lay out of the house of the house or
you know what, where they were going what they were doing.
They avoided the kids room, So if they avoided the

(51:21):
kid room, maybe they knew that the kids were there.
And then Ta and Tina goes missing. I there are
points in the investigation where they think that maybe it
wasn't about any of them, and maybe it was about
Tina and somebody who has or wants Tina because she

(51:45):
is taken.

Speaker 2 (51:46):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (51:48):
That's the only part that I don't see with Martin
and Bow. That makes sense why they would take her
mm hm.

Speaker 2 (51:58):
But it would make sense if the X did it right, right,
So that's that's okay. So that's that's where I'm at
with it. I see all the points that you're making,
and it definitely makes sense. But I just, for some reason,

(52:18):
the X, to me is more apt to do this
type of thing because of his connection and the fact
that they left right and he was pissed off and
furious and uh, you know, angry, and she was the

(52:40):
whole nine and found out where they were and and
just lost.

Speaker 1 (52:47):
It, right. Yeah, And and Aba didn't point out she says,
quite enough for no one to hear with little insulation.
Very true. I mean, you're talking about a group of
cabins in a very small area in the woods, very isolated.
It's not like a trafficky area. It's a very quiet
little resort community. And the best there, yeah, is that

(53:09):
someone held them. I mean that makes sense too. I
could easily see maybe maybe they saw John and Dana
come coming back, and maybe they grabbed John and Dana
and go in there they're holding John or Dana hostage,
and Stud's like, you know, what's going on? And just

(53:31):
trying to be quiet to say protect your kids. That
would make sense. I mean it is on a highway.
You're right, and it's on a highway, but the whole
community of Ketty is very tall or a very small town.
I mean the population of around one hundred people. There's
train tracks, there's a highway. And another thing that they

(53:51):
they mentioned was that and this is this was a
weird clue to me. So cabin twenty eight was initially
the main hub for when trains came through. The light
on cabin twenty eight is supposed to always be on,
has something to do with the trains. When I was
doing some of the research, they talked about how cabin

(54:12):
twenty eight was meant to be I don't know if
it's a way that they was facing or not, but
that their porch light was always supposed to be on,
and they said that the night of the murder that
light was turned off. I was to say, we looked
at it as part of Sherman Tine's case, but they
were just too young. I've been there. Oh wow wow.

Speaker 2 (54:37):
So my next question is did a train pass by
that day at that time?

Speaker 1 (54:42):
Well, I imagine there could have been at some point.
And I've lived by train tracks, so you easily tune
that sound out. So if anybody in that community just
didn't think about it, I mean, but I don't know.
I don't know if there was one. There's nothing during
the investigation that talks about a train passing by Ava.
I did that. They actually completely destroyed that cabin to
Cabin twenty apparently no longer exists. Most of that community

(55:07):
is vacant now because just vandalism and people coming by.
I mean, the town wasn't really well known until these murders.
But I think my frustration with this case is how
it was handled to because because nobody was there was

(55:27):
no arrest made.

Speaker 2 (55:30):
You know why?

Speaker 1 (55:32):
Yeah, and they actually they actually leave town like they
talk about leaving town. I did find out. And I
didn't mention this earlier because I don't know how relevant
it is. But after the case, Martin and Bold move.
Martin moves to like Oregon or some other state and
writes a letter to his ex wife talking about how

(55:55):
he sacrificed for lives for her and all that. He
writes this letter and sends it to Maryland. But if
you dig into it, he had four children from a
previous relationship and he just cut ties with them when
he got with her, So there could it could be
that he was talking about his kids or the deaths

(56:16):
of the people in the house. It's really hard had
some questionable associations back then. Yeah, and and again Bow,
there's possibility that Bo was affiliated with the you know,
uh witness protection program in a sense, like the he
got out of he got arrested for crime relations with

(56:37):
Malat mafia in Vegas, then he was released and under
and he's moved, So I mean, it could be under
different conditions. He's hiding out with Martin and they're using
him as an informant, So maybe they're trying to keep
this case hush hushed, so they're not pointing fingers at
him so they can keep Bo out. I mean, the

(56:57):
fact that they interviewed them together, h is a huge
huge spot for me, because you you don't do that
that you never investigate suspects together. You're interrogate them, But
I mean, there's no other suspects. There's nothing there again

(57:20):
John and Dana, Yeah, okay, so they go go in town.
They're a little bit of problem children. But I really
think that the only person that it could have been
is Martinet and Bow and that they just had the
backing or the support of local enforcement. And it's frustrating.

(57:40):
I mean it is they ended up. They're both dead now,
but you know, I think Martin died in like twenty
thirteen and bo died in like eighty nine. But they
were both free. They never they never were charged with anything.

Speaker 2 (57:58):
Wow. Interesting, uh huh. No fingerprints, nothing like that.

Speaker 1 (58:04):
Nope. But the timeline that Marilyn gives you about them
coming back around two thirty in the morning and that
they're burning something in the word from stove, that's questionable too.
I mean, it just I don't like I've in my
little bit of research, like I'm like, I it's them,

(58:25):
it's them, Like I know, it's I think you might
be onto something with the X. The issue that I
have with that is that there's just not enough Like
they they mentioned an investigation that he did show up
at one point to kind of maybe try to repair
things and it didn't work or whatever, and then he

(58:45):
just never came back. Could he have had connections with them, possible?
But I mean these are people that, like Martin, lived
there for a long time, even prior to unless he
you know, contacted him and said, hey, you know whatever.
I could also see a side of the story where
Sue could potentially be involved in like maybe sleeping around

(59:09):
a bit in the community, and there could have been
some anger between people that are frustrated with her and
maybe I don't know, man, I really think you've got,
you know, somebody with anger issues whose wife left him

(59:30):
and he just lost his job and they're getting drunk.
I mean, it's just too many points that makes sense.
What's what's mg lak? But I'm not really sure what
this is? But what do you what do you think of

(59:53):
the case? Man? I mean, this is this is one
of those where it was never solved. Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:00:03):
I just think there's information missing, you know, and as
in all the cases that aren't solved, Uh, there's information missing,
there's evidence missing or hidden or taking away, removed, covered up.
I think that the two people who should have been

(01:00:24):
really investigated the most is bow and Martin. But I
also think that the X should have been investigated a
lot more too, because I don't know, I mean, when
they have they all have the background of military right right, Uh,
And that's to me, that's the common denominator. Uh to me,

(01:00:45):
to meet someone, they know them for a short period
of time and then they're sleeping on your couch, there
have to be like a connection prior to that, like
in the military when they served together. I think that's
where they all met. I think they all know each other,
and I think that's the link. You know, they're all

(01:01:06):
they're all in military, and I think somehow they made
a connection and and that's what brought them together in
that that episode.

Speaker 1 (01:01:18):
So all, okay, all right, thank you for tuning in.
I appreciate this information. She said. N G and lak
are SK's operating out of that area around that time. Now,
during the investigation, I did see that there were a
couple of well known serial killers in the area, so
it could have potentially been SK. So you've got Leonard

(01:01:41):
Thomas Lake. I just looked this up. Let's see here,
that's not very big, but I can't really make it
any bigger. Alternate sideways. That helps a little bit.

Speaker 2 (01:01:52):
Lake.

Speaker 1 (01:01:53):
Lake and his accomplice, Charles N. G Rape Torture murdered
and estimated eleven to twenty five victims in a remote
cab near Wolseyville, California. One hundred fifty miles east of
San Francisco nineteen eighty five.

Speaker 2 (01:02:07):
Like sal.

Speaker 1 (01:02:12):
Wow, I found it, it happened and confirmed Energy's involvement
and where that's crazy. Uh, you know, it's possible. But again,
I think that the way that the crime scene was,
I don't know that. I again, I think that there
was too much personal emotion involved in the way that

(01:02:36):
they were killed. You don't think so, I do. I
do think so. I think that there's could it have
been the serial killers? Like this? Yes, the problem that
I'm having with this, I mean maybe they saw maybe
they saw Tina and they wanted Tina. Uh, that's that's
that's a possibility. But I don't know, man.

Speaker 2 (01:03:00):
But see, but see that this what that's what That's
why I get confused because there was no noise. You know,
for me, they knew these people, because otherwise it would
have been screams. It would have been noise them trying
to run or fighting it, you know, trying to fight
them all. Yeah, I think they were allowed in and

(01:03:24):
welcomed in either one way or the other. Uh. And
that's why it wasn't any.

Speaker 1 (01:03:30):
Well, and this isn't this isn't a community where they
locked the doors. I mean the killings, don't I mean,
and they're this whole community they talk all the time
about how the doors weren't locked. As a matter of fact,
John's room is in the basement, which is on the
back side of the cabin, and the only way upstairs
is through the front door, so they would know they
were just never locked. So the person could have known that.

(01:03:54):
I do kind of want to and I think you
mentioned you one of us mentioned that maybe they were
held at gunpoint. John or or Dana could have been
held at gunpoint when they went into the house and
they you know, if you got two suspects that were there,

(01:04:16):
they could have easily, you know, covered their mouths and
pushed them into the house and Sue wakes up and
they're like, don't say a word, and you know, then
they murdered them right there in the living room. But
I think that whoever it was knew that there were
boys in that back room.