Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
So clearly they endured something pretty intense. There was two women, yes,
and seven guys, So to me, that's a problem already.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Eyebrows missing burn marks, eyeballs missing tone missing.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Yeah, the bones decame to that degree in just four years.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
I just don't see that type of daygle.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
There's just so much that's off about on both sides.
Both sides seem real suspect. You know, it's the South,
so maybe dental records are a bit trickier down there
because they only have maybe one or two cheeks to
identify them by it.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Have you guys ever had that, Like you've driven by
a house on the middle of nowhere, You're like, I
don't wonder who lives there? What's going on? Oh yeah,
this is gonna be one of those what's happening everybody?
Welcome back to JG's Lounge. I'm really jukebox and we're
(01:14):
doing another singed Eye sockets.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Man.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
We've been having so much fun with these, uh and
I'm excited to see how this one goes, which will
probably go pretty damn well. So, uh, welcome back our
co host Sean Man.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
How you doing fantastic? Man, I'm just you know, been
spending my evening getting ready for a trip tomorrow. So
it's it's been. It's been a little bit. Zen, to
be honest with you.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
That's good. Zen is good man. It can't beat Jeff
for that one. How about you, Thomas Man, your return
guests for this episode, how you doing.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
I'm good man. Uh, just excited to be back on
It's been a little while.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Definitely last minute situation, but you know, I'm glad you're here.
Hell yeah. So our last episode we did was a JH.
Holmes That was a lot of fun. We got a
lot of good feedback from that one. I still feel
like there was probably some more that we could have
dived into, but you know, it is, it is what
it is. Uh. You know, we leave some of that
(02:11):
up for you guys to go find out for yourself,
but overall, I think it went great. Tonight, we are
going to be talking about Divina buff Jones, and for
any of you who are unfamiliar with her, she was
an officer who was killed on duty and we're gonna
talk about some of the details of the night she
(02:33):
died and some of the investigations and see what you
guys think. So it's October twenty second, nineteen ninety nine.
This is uh, this is I literally just had it
on the top of my head. Good start, good, Yes,
we're great. It's like uh, Dark Bluff, North Island, North Carolina,
(02:59):
North Carolina. I even have images that I had pulled up,
but I can't find them, so we're just gonna keep rolling.
It's a very wealthy island off the coastlines of North Carolina,
very wealthy community, tight knit. They kind of it's like
a peninsula, but a good chuck of the peninsula is
just isolated, like swamp lands, you know, alligator infested waters
(03:23):
like stuff like that. It's it's not very inhabited. But
the very end of the peninsula is like this wealthy
community of properties that are about half a million to
three million dollars properties, so small local community. And there's
these guards. Their name is Keith Kane and his partner
Divina buff They're both on duty. It's eleven forty five pm.
(03:46):
They take a ferry to get to the island for
their shifts, and d is deciding I'm gonna go out
and patrol while Keith is back at the office eating
and shortly after that, within like about five minute window,
from that eleven forty five PM to this time. She
(04:07):
calls in from just to dispatch, saying forty two oh six,
which is their car number, and she says ten to
four show me out with three, which means that she's
spotted several people, uh with or it doesn't really say what,
but I do have the audio clip of what she
called in. I'm gonna let us. We're gonna listen to
this really quick. That's not it. Bear with me. I
(04:31):
got a few videos that I'm gonna play here.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
You know, it's an exciting podcast. When I can hear
the wind outside we're off and running, I guess, well,
well he's getting that worked around. My first thought about
this officer is I'd like to see a picture of her,
cause it's just he said the name buff and my
first madery is just like yoked out, you know, like
(05:03):
you know what I mean, like misfitness USA type lady. Yeah, yeah,
so interesting to see what her physics.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
We were just talking about you actually.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Of a job I do at these lives?
Speaker 4 (05:23):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Yeah, no, actually I was. I was asking Thomas, like
they're telling Thomas that by just by the name, my
curiosity is peaked as far as her physicality, you know,
is I mean she like kind of yoked out, you know,
misfitness us a type? Or was she like a type?
Speaker 1 (05:44):
So I have let's see, here's the audio with a
picture of her. Actually, let's do this, Okay, I was
trying to find it anyways when I exited myself out
of this. But here it's a very short clip. I'll
play it one more time and then I can tell
you what she said. So what comes over the intercom
(06:18):
is there ain't no reason to have a gun here
on Bulkhead Island. Do me a favor. Put down the gun,
That's what she says, and dispatch picks that up. She's tiny,
She's a very tiny person. I do have. I did
have an image of her, you know, I can actually
pull up an image of her.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Let's do that, say, just from the image that you
had on the thing, she doesn't look like.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Yeah, she's not a very big big person at.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
All here, which is not to say small female cops aren't,
you know, little Tasmanian devils in their own right.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
But yeah, let's do this. I'm gonna I'll pull us
off so and I'll see, yeah, a little bit dude,
but yeah, she's tiny and she's not a very big
person at all.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Okay, that would be a weird accent for North Carolina, like, oh,
have you got that gone?
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Now?
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Don't you be down here on the island.
Speaker 4 (07:23):
Why don't you put that down now?
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Okay, okay, now okay. So yeah, she's she's a tiny
she's a very tiny officer. So she calls in that dispatch.
Within minutes, her partners out the door, like going to
find her. He's trying to radio to dispatch, like, hey,
have you heard where she's at? Like, no, We've called
(07:46):
several times, we've got nothing. So he's cruising around and
he spots the tail lights of her truck near a
lighthouse about seven minutes after the initial call. Okay, and
her truck is backed into an alleyway near the light
house and it's on, but there's no D. So the
(08:08):
headlights are on, it's running. D's nowhere to be found.
He searches the area, can't find her, goes back to
her truck and finds her light sitting on the passenger
seat of her truck. At this point, he's a little frantic,
not sure what to do, so he looks around again
with his flashlight and he spots her body laying in
(08:30):
the street, not far from the truck. He goes up.
He approaches her, he sees that her eyes are still
slightly open, she's laying on her stomach with her head
turned to the left, and her handgun is underneath her
right hand. So he freaks out and runs back to
(08:52):
his vehicle to call for backup and repositions his vehicle
and during the time, he's thinking they might still be here,
I should probably, you know, go hide. So the next
the chief fire inspector is the next one to arrive
on the scene, and he approaches Keith and he's like, hey,
(09:13):
what's going on. So they're both huddled behind his vehicle, thinking, okay,
maybe this is a hot zone. Then the killer is
still there, which doesn't necessarily make sense to me because
he had already searched the area before he even found.
Speaker 5 (09:27):
D Right, He's like, he has like scoped out because
he's looking for her, right, yes, So he's looking around
and comes back and sees her in the street in
the all.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Yeah, she's in the street. The truck was in the alley,
her body's in the street nearby, but that's where we're
at so far. But I'm thinking from an officer standpoint, like,
why would you be freaking out, like maybe they're still
here if if you already searched the area and you've
already checked her b He even tells that the fire chief,
(10:04):
you know, I couldn't find a pulse. I don't know,
I'm a little frantic, but I didn't feel a pulse.
So they both wait until the paramedics show up, and
then they immediately tell the paramedics to remove the body
from the scene, to get it to a safe location
before they you know, rule you know her, whether she's
alive or dead, which is suspicious also to me because
(10:27):
it's a it's a crime scene. You got a shot, officer, Yeah,
set up a perimeter, secure the area, like, don't touch anything, right,
what do you got? Sean?
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Well as somebody who is an EMT for some years,
exactly one of the first things that I will tell you.
And I don't know if situations have changed or if
they have different rules for emergency situations on Potluck Island
or whatever this place is called, but I can remember
(11:00):
as an example, I can remember one very specific we
got toned out to a bar and it was a
gsw to the neck, and when we got there, we
weren't allowed to exit the bus until the officers told
us that the scene was secure. Like we literally were sitting,
(11:20):
you know, just with our twiddling our thumbs and waiting
for the cops go in and out and inspect the car.
The guy's you know, and this is a whole other story.
It's ridiculous, but we probably sat still. I mean, it
must have been seven to ten minutes until the scene
(11:40):
was secured. And this dude's literally sitting inside the bar
with a gunshot wound through his neck, went through here,
popped out the back cavitation, didn't hit anything vital. He
had a stack of bartels, and he's literally bleeding out
and we're waiting until the cops say right, that story aside,
(12:02):
The point being if that's the general rule, and the
cops are huddled behind the car, what does he do?
Poke his head over the trunk and go.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
Get her body out?
Speaker 2 (12:13):
The killers might still be here, exactly.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
It's a hot zone. But you're okay with the parandematics
going in and removing the body.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
We're going to defend themselves with the trauma. What are
we talking about here?
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Yeah, So like right off the bat, and I'm you know,
we a lot more than I do Sean about this stuff.
Like I'm already thinking I wouldn't have handled it like this,
and I'm just a common civilian, you know.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Well, here's I don't know, Thomas, I don't know if
this stuck out fishy to you. But what is there patrolling?
Uhsion like division of duties while they're there? Because you
said partner and they took the ferry out to the island.
So what happens like one gets in one car, one
gets the other, and they patrol different ends of the island.
(13:02):
I mean you say partners, So my brain is going
they ride together right.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Well, and that that'll come up here in a little
bit too, okay. And she wasn't supposed to leave on
her own to go patrol, but I'll talk about that.
It's in my notes, okay.
Speaker 5 (13:18):
I can only imagine that this is like a very
very very well you said, it's kind of a ritzy community.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
It's a very ritchy small local community.
Speaker 5 (13:27):
This is not a place where people really take a
second guess at like in this area.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Right, And it's a it's called Bulkhead Island, and so
it is a wealthy, small community, and I keep putting
emphasis on the wealthy because I think it has a
lot to do with why a lot of things happen
the way it is, and we can kind of touch
on that as we continue to go through this. Somebody
saw something they shouldn't have, or they just are like,
we don't want this in our community, so let's get
(13:55):
rid of it, right just anyways, So the pair actually
move the body that take them to the marina to
wait for a fairy to take it back to the mainland.
At the at the marina, while they're waiting, they try
to get her pulse twice and they determine Okay, she's
you know, she's dead, she's you know, can't bring her back.
(14:15):
There's also some civilians there from a restaurant right down
the street that heard the gunshots and was evacuated to
the marina. So they're also waiting on the ferry, and
several of them said that they had actually seen her body,
which should have been covered. In my opinion, Yeah, shot, good.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
John point of curiosity when determining morbidity. They're just willy
nilly checking the pulse.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
You know.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
It seems like a very doctor Nick from The Simpsons,
thing like no pulse, she's dead. Oh well kind of
situation like you have to attach the at least a
free lead, and all kinds of things you're saying. All
they do was check for the polls twice and it's like.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Eh, yeah, she's gone. Yeah, that's that's what they said.
So that's all the information rning of the reports that
I got. Okay, so that's what I'm going with what
they did. So after these removed, hold on and take
it to the mainland, Keith goes in and it's during
(15:25):
the same time. Keith goes in and takes the gun
from the scene and places it on the ground next
to his vehicle and then at some point decides to
pick it up and put it in the floorboard of
his truck. No, no reason behind it. This is another officer.
So another thing that I'm pretty sure you don't do.
Is this her partner, That her actual partner, Yeah, the
(15:48):
one who actually found her. The reason behind it? Nothing.
Out of everything I looked up, I got no answer.
So he puts on At the marina, the paramats found
that the singles she had a single shot at the
center of the back of her head, they checked for
her poles. She was pronounced dead. They like I said
(16:12):
that they several civilians saw her on the ferry. They
had her wrapped twice with sheets to kind of prevent
exposure from the atmosphere, which at this point they are
people had already seen her, which makes no sense anyways,
So a lot of this in my mind, Sean, he
can know what you got, man.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
So this gunshot went to the back of the head.
If it didn't come out the front, I'm assuming it
was a smaller caliber, like perhaps at twenty two. Was
there any stippling on or like around the wound? Did it? Say?
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Later on the the odutopsy, the pathologist talks about kind
of the rupture of the skull and how it had
to be like up against her head in order to
have gone off.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Yes, that's what I'm saying. So it sounds like it
was execution style.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Yes, which would make very difficult for I mean for
somebody themselves to do. And you saw her size, so
she wasn't exactly a very big person. Hey, darkness on TikTok,
I thank you for tuning in and sharing all the likes.
Somebody's watching us, guys. Oh my day anyways. Okay, so
(17:26):
the medical examiner when she gets back to the main
Land overestimates her height and her weight. D is actually
just under five feet and weighs just under one hundred pounds.
The examiner reports that she is five to four and
weighs one hundred and forty pounds. He also says that
the gunshot when an entry, is on the right side
(17:49):
of her head, underneath her ear, which is not making
any sense because that's where her head laid in the
pool of the blood. This is coming from the medical
This is from the medical exams on the mainland.
Speaker 5 (18:02):
Yeah, like their their entire career a lot of times,
like like cases in court rely on their on their
report for seeing and evidence that was taken from it,
like like entire like murder cases can be thrown out
for these kinds of mistakes.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Right, Yeah, my gosh, And you got to think, like
this is all within a very small span window. Investigators
already on the scene. You have the county and the SBI,
which is a state Bureau of investigation and sean, what
you got, man.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
So did this medical examiner take a liver temp to
determine that.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
None of the reports? Okay, what would be the purpose
of the liver exam.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Okay, So basically what they do is they take a
their mom jam it down into liver because that is
like core temp and by doing some mathematical equations, they
are able to deduce, like by its temperature, this is
when the person died versus the temperature it's outside, blah
blah blah, laying on the pavement. That all can affect
(19:14):
the things, but they're able to get basically rough estimation
of when this person died. So if you have this
garbled thing that came through and she says, well, there's
no need for a gun, that means she saw the gun,
but yet somebody came up behind her and popped the
(19:35):
shot into her brain pan. Right, This all makes no sense.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
It doesn't. It kind of reminds you that the two
Boys on the Tracks, remember that one where like none
of it really lined up. You weren't a part of
that one, Thomas, But yeah, it was a weird one.
This one's just as weird being Okay, So investigators here
what the ruling was from the matter cool examiner. So
they're automatically starting to think possible suicide because the examiner
(20:04):
said it was on the right side, underneath the ear right.
Uh So, now people on the islander start being suspicious
and the crime scene is being flooded with by the
SBI and the County. At the scene, there is a
pool of blood drops the blood between the pool of
(20:25):
blood and her truck, so where she was laying to
the truck, there's there's drops of blood. Along the side
of the truck. There's blood, and there's a bloody handprint
on the tailgate of the of the truck. At this point,
what do you think you would do with some of
that information?
Speaker 4 (20:46):
So this is her truck. This is her truck that
she yess vehicle?
Speaker 5 (20:50):
Yes, well, I want to know does this is all
this blood the same blood? It all comes from the
same person, right, And then I would like to see
if there's any other wounds on the victim. I mean,
I'm thinking maybe were they transported to their point of
execution or their point of death, or or you know
(21:13):
where they shot and then dragged to this or carried
to this location. Also, the middle of the street is
a pretty bad spot to hide a body unless you're
trying to like send a message of some kind, right,
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Oh ye, Well, crime any dude, Like, Okay, first of all,
like one hundred percent agree typing the blood where it's at,
you know, and getting to see if it is all
from the same person, for one for two bag her hands?
Why because if she did, you know, do this thing,
(21:50):
we GSR gunshot residue would be on the hand, right, Okay.
So the other thing is, I would want to know
what caliber bullet went into her skull because if that
was fired from her gun, right then you'd want to
(22:13):
do a ballistics match. I would also check the gun
to see if a bullet was fired from it, because
if a bullet wasn't fired from it, that means it
wasn't suicide. And if she doesn't have GSR on her hands,
that also means she did not commit suicide. And you know,
and what kind of gun did she have? Did she have?
You know, a do they standard issue revolvers? Was it
a snubnose? Did she have a nine mil? I mean
(22:37):
like all these things like these are all the questions
that are popping up into my head about this whole thing.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
And you were just an EMT, right, Yeah, So they
did none of that. They didn't collect any of the blood,
They assumed it was all hers. There were there.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
I'm going to quit my job. We're going to go
down to be medical examiner examiners at Rock Island, you know,
because there there are no standards.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
And when I heard that they didn't collect any of that,
I'm like, okay. So she shoots herself on the back
of the head, walks to the back of her car,
puts her hamper on the back of the car while
holding the gun. Still ends up going, you know, however,
many feet away from her truck, and then decides to
lay down and die. That doesn't make sense.
Speaker 5 (23:32):
And there is no exit wound, just one, just the
entry wound.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Yeah, they end up finding the bullet shell, which we'll
talk about here shortly. But yeah, actually that's the next
thing that I have on here. They did actually find it.
Drag marks from the truck to the body. Some of
the reports show that, but some of them don't show that.
So there's inconsistencies and reports between investigators and officers as well.
(23:58):
The shell casing was found near the body, actually by
a picket fence, and it did match what the officers
on the islands used for their guns.
Speaker 4 (24:09):
It did or did not. It did it did match.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
They were both collected for evidence, but like I said,
it was already tampered with by her partner, Keith, who
removed the gun from the scene like an idiot. Okay,
So Keith gets interviewed by one of the investigators. He says, Oh,
it was a normal night.
Speaker 4 (24:27):
You know.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
We met on the ferry, typical head of the island.
He said that they had to approach a couple of
men on the drunk that were on the ferry that
we're getting drunk because it's not allowed, and they stopped.
He said the only call they had that night was
from a restaurant asking for them to escort some guest
home after their golf cart was stolen, which is apparently
(24:48):
pretty common on this island because people get confused when
they're drunk and whatever took the wrong accidentally took the
wrong cart whatever. So he said, that's that's all I
had done. They went back to the office. They were
filing some paperwork and to see then D was like, hey,
I'm gonna go back out and patrol and yes, darkness,
this is a real story. You can look it up.
(25:10):
Thank you for watching this. So D is not supposed
to be out patrolling alone. So this is where we
find out some of the stuff about d D has
a very black and white view of the law. You're
either doing something wrong or you're not. There's no wiggle room.
(25:31):
And we're a very wealthy community who probably kind of
thinks highly of themselves, maybe a little conceited, thinking they
can get away with some stuff, which some of the
officers on the island probably kind of cater to.
Speaker 4 (25:45):
Well.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
She did it. She had only been in there for
ten months and had multiple complaints against her, so the
police chief told her that she was not allowed to
proll alone to certify the locals. So this was in place,
so Keith was never supposed to let her go. She did. Anyways,
the investigators go to the's parents to inform them about
(26:08):
what's going on, and they're like, hey, we'd really like
to go see her house, and they go with her.
They're like, yeah, we'll take you over there. And the
only thing they found that was a little odd was
that a pair of her shoes, which this is on
the mainland, this isn't on the island, are propping the
back door open, and there's a tarp kind of overlaying
the door, and this is. I mean, she had a
couple of dogs, and the parents are like, you know,
(26:29):
maybe it's just so the dogs could get it in
and out while she's at work. But the investigators don't
see it this way. They're like, maybe she's just doing
this to prepare for not coming back, you know. So
just to add on to this suicide theory. Yeah, but
there's nothing unusual besides that that they find in the house.
Autopsy result comes back and it's confirmed that the death
(26:51):
was by the gunshot womb in the back of the
head with the chamber against the head, based on the
skull fracture that the gun had left. So there's that.
So again we're back to confirmed that is here. So
if we're if we're going with suicide, that's extremely difficult.
I hear, that's extremely difficult for literally anybody to do.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
I mean.
Speaker 5 (27:17):
Also, if I'm going to kill myself, I feel like
that's just hard a good way to screw it up,
you know, right, Yeah, I feel like there's a yeah,
there's easier ways to do it.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
But okay, so I I appreciate that justin as noted,
but this is being recorded on YouTube, so whatever, the
only thing they'll do on here is is on TikTok
is say, I can't use the recording, but they haven't
shut it off yet, so thank you though. Anyways, what
we're gonna say, Thomas.
Speaker 5 (27:48):
Well, okay, so I keep going back to like like
if this is a small area, it's an isolated area,
they don't see a lot of activity as far as
actual like I'm gonna consider real crime, like violent crime.
Speaker 4 (28:04):
This could have just.
Speaker 5 (28:05):
Been something that was like just completely fumbled, just completely
mishandled by the authorities where you got like a maybe
it's like a police staff of like fifteen people and
they never see shit like this, and they're like something
like actually happens, and they're like, oh god, we are
not prepared for this sort of thing, Like this is
not a city center, this is not a metropolitan area,
(28:27):
Like we don't handle this kind of thing. They probably
haven't seen anything like this in years, if ever, right,
and so they just they just fucked it up. They
just fucked it up, you know, like I don't know,
get her gun, let's get her out of here.
Speaker 4 (28:41):
I don't like see like I.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Was I was thinking about that too, But that's just
like the clumsiness is one thing yeah, but like you've
got SBI involved, You've got you know, county involved. It's
not just like this little tiny islands police forces at
this point. There's plenty of people there, and I just
(29:04):
I feel like there's too much that that is just coincidental,
and it only gets it's only it only gets weirder.
Speaker 5 (29:10):
Yeah, it's just so strange because it's such an isolated
it's such an isolated area, so I feel like who
is coming to and from this particular area is being
monitored heavily, so there would more than likely be a
record of whoever was on or off, whoever it entered
or exited that area at that time, right whatever.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
So I do want to say, uh jah, justin, I
just got a notification on TikTok saying that it's been restricted.
So thanks anyway, Sean, did you have something wanted to
add to it?
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Well, I have two theories, all right. So here's the
first theory. She did commit suicide. So she shoots herself
in the back of the head. She's she's triple jointed,
so she's able to get all the way around and
shorts herself in the back of the head and then
reaches back and touches it and goes, oh my god,
I've shot myself in the back of the head, leans
(30:08):
against the truck. That's where the handprint comes from, and
then to get away from the truck because she doesn't
want to get blood on it because she's going to
be you know, she wants to like will it to
somebody else in her family. She grabs herself by the
lapels and drags herself across the pavement. So that's where
the drag marks come from.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
And that's exactly what I thought happened.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Actually, So she drags herself across the pavement, and then
as she's falling to the ground, you know, she says,
I better tuck my gun under my body in front
of my hand, which makes no sense with the physics
of it of falling, so that the youth in the
area don't get to my gun. So that's my first
(30:54):
real quick is that, given that she is very black
and white in the way she've viewsed the you have
an area where there are nothing but pampered rich people
who raise pampered rich kids. And if you've ever been
around a pampered rich kid, nine times out of ten
their assholes and they're very entitled. She probably came across
(31:15):
some young folks that did not take kindly to her
telling them not to do something, and they pulled a
gun on her and they ended her life because they
didn't like being told what to do. And there's cover
up from the get go, because the officers knew who
(31:39):
did it, and because of the influence and everything else,
they are intentionally bumbling this.
Speaker 4 (31:49):
Yeah, it's like a senator's kid or something.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
So here's where it gets better. So the news on
the island's getting spread pretty quick. You know, the the
civilians that saw her were telling people who told other people. Uh.
And and the idea of murder is making all the
residents uncomfortable. So the the police department's like, hey, we
need we need to do a press conference real quick.
(32:16):
So they do. And the only thing that any of
the residents are really pushing for is not to find
the murderer, but to make this crime scene gone, like,
get rid of it. Let's let's get it, get it
closed and done with. And the reason why is because
they don't want any trace of it because of the
tourism that they attract. They don't want they don't want
(32:39):
to affect the tourism. Ah, it makes makes a lot
of sense, right' It's.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Oh my god, it's like watching Jaws with you know,
I don't care what you have to do, but with
this bitch, beach will be open.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Somebody just said safer over here. Look at the TikTok
crowd coming on over to the YouTube. Thank you, appreciate you.
You're right, TikTok is label all their restrictions. We do
what it's a subject. It's a subject, man. They'll restrict
you for anything. It's it's we're talking about death and
blood and so whatever. It's fine. But like I can
(33:21):
stream it live, people can watch it live, but it
won't like afterwards, I can't access like the recording or anything.
And if it's too bad, they can. They can block
me for so long. I'm not too worried about it.
Oh okay. So eleven am they do the press conference.
We just went over that. After the press conference, the
chief investigator decides, you know, I'm gonna go back to
(33:44):
the crime scene. I'm not done with this yet. So
she shows up. There's nothing there. There's not a trace
of a crime scene. Even the pool of blood is gone.
So so this was eleven forty five at night and
this is eleven am when they have the press conference,
so within a twelve hour window that not only is
the crime scene completely gone, it's open to the public,
(34:09):
it's opened back up to the public. That the pool.
She finds out that one of the fire department trucks
hose down the pool blood. So there's there's literally no
trace of anything. It's just it's all gone. Huh.
Speaker 5 (34:24):
So it's pretty clear to me the way that this
community feels about not only about this particular officer, but
about so it's just like a red flag to me
that that these people aren't worried about the safety of
their community at all.
Speaker 4 (34:39):
Like I feel like.
Speaker 5 (34:42):
If I feel like if they were, if somebody got
shot down the street and the subject was at large,
I'd be like, oh shit, I'm locking my doors. Hey,
are you guys doing anything about this? Not like, well,
let's just sweep. I mean, I mean, we got a
lot to do tomorrow. We got we have an event planned, Like.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
Can we just well, it's funny that you say an event.
So after she does her the chief tries to find
out who ordered the hosing of the pool of blood.
She does find out there's a high profile wedding at
the church right near the crime scene. So maybe someone
(35:23):
was like, well, you know, we don't want to mess
up the wedding, so let's make sure we it's cleaned up.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
You know, someone some rich, bitchy old care Look, this
has cover up written all over it, and a bunch
of rich people who don't give a shit about anything
except what they want, and they erased this woman as
(35:50):
if she never existed. Dispose of her, get her out
of the way, and they use their little lackeys to
get it taken care of. Right. I think your assessment
of Senator Kid it is probably way closer than the
mark than than what we no.
Speaker 4 (36:07):
It's the old case of the affluenza.
Speaker 5 (36:09):
Do you do you guys remember there was like a
guy a few years back who they he got like
a super light sentence for something because they said that
it was a case of affluenza where he was such
a such a such a rich pampered kid that he
literally did not know what it meant to be told no,
or didn't really understand the difference between right and wrong.
(36:30):
That he was so it was it was his idea
of reality was so deluded by his like being just
being a rich kid that he couldn't really comprehend that
what he was doing was actually wrong, and so like
his lawyer like literally got him like a super light sentence,
if not totally off the hook. I can't remember, but
(36:51):
I remember the phrase that they dropped was affluenza.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Yep, yep, and and man it exists. I as a
matter of fact, I saw it today. I was grade
in papers tonight and Live PD or something was on
and this girl gets pulled over and the cops like, yeah,
you're drunk, you're going to jail. So she's in the
back of the car. And as they're going to the
to the lock up, she's in the.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
Back of the car. She's like, this never happens to me.
I'm such a I've I went to a good school,
I had a three point eight and and I'm pretty
you have to let me off because and she was
she was a smoke show. And it's like she's one
of these never say no girls who's been beautiful over life,
so everybody just hands shit to her.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
Right.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
It's that same kind of mentality with these affluenza focks, right,
and you know, so they think nothing of would I
would posit that this is some people that she came across,
possibly an HOA. I'm not going to rule that out.
Those fuckers are evil, right, so you know, maybe is
(38:00):
Karen that's running the ho AA got pissed off and
capped her.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Who knows, Yeah, says she does remember that video. I'm
guessing she's referring to yours shuns.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
Quite, I mean, possibly either that or the affluenza one.
Either way, they're disgusting, you know. And when she said
I'm pretty I just I'm just like, if I were,
this is why I would never be a successful cop,
because I would slam on the brake so her head
bounced off the cage and be like, what the fuck
does that happen?
Speaker 1 (38:31):
To the jail, I'd probably do the same thing. Okay,
So the chief decides to look into some of the
ex boyfriends. Uh. One of them William, who was also
an officer and another town over. Uh divine said money
talks tales oldest time. Unfortunately this is true, yep, so
(38:54):
he he works, he's he was a past officer and
now he's currently with the SBI, who was also called
to the crime scene. This is an ex of hers,
so she probably shouldn't have been there anyways. Yes, that's
a huge conflict. Anyways, Dee's family said that he was
obsessive in a loose Cannon said that their relationship had
(39:18):
some turbulence and they had been broken up for a while,
but they were like mutually you know what. Civil. But
he said that several weeks before she called him and
said that she was wanting to harm herself, but due
to a hurricane, it prevented him from going to check
on her. I don't know what that has to do
with anything other than maybe trying to say to add
(39:40):
to the fact that maybe she did kill herself. He
said he was home the night that she killed herself
and then went to see a friend before he was
called to the scene that she taught to another ex Scott,
who was a fellow police officer, who tells the investigators
they were on and off but still friends, said they
(40:00):
actually talked three times the day of her death, but
nothing came off of it, like they didn't have any
reason to tie him to the death. Investigators look into
people that she had given citations to and people who
had called and complained about her, and they were all cleared.
The family and the ex Scott said, oh, I skipped
(40:23):
way too far here. Hold On said that she was
talking about looking into drug activity on the island weeks prior,
something to do with pretty sure there was some money
or like drug deals going on near the lighthouse where
she was killed. The results from the bullet came back
as from her gun specifically around this time. The District
(40:46):
Attorney then comes up and says, with all the evidence,
it does point to suicide, which is mind boggling to me. Yeah,
a family does not agree with the DA and his
comments on his reports say that the gun was in
her right hand, but it wasn't. It was under her
(41:07):
right hand, so's a gun shot wound consistent with other
female suicides by gun also doesn't make sense the DA's
uh finalize his call on it before all the reports
were even in, because about a month later the crime
lab came back and said there was no They could
(41:27):
not find any id on the gun. Not nobody's idea
was on that gun.
Speaker 4 (41:32):
It was her gun and.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
Nothing. Yes, there was nothing. They said, they couldn't find
no identification on the gun whatsoever, which means that gun was.
Speaker 4 (41:43):
Cleaned, not even hers like, not even her her gun.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
No, No, there's no fingerprints on the gun.
Speaker 4 (41:52):
Yes, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
So I have.
Speaker 5 (41:58):
I have like a couple of quick, quick theories I
want to run through real quick, Okay. So, like for
some reason I was thinking, well, early on, I was like,
well this, I don't know if this could be a
planned event, Okay, because if somebody was planning on killing
I'm specifically somebody from the area, from the island, a resident, whatever, kids, whatever,
So you couldn't like plan something like this necessarily because
(42:18):
how would you know that maybe she was going out
on her own, Because if there were two of them,
I don't know if I would want to try and
make this this this this move right, But how would
you know that maybe that she was going to be
solo on this particular venture that she that and and
maybe you had the opportunity, or maybe they came into
like a conflict with some kids.
Speaker 4 (42:36):
You know, by the lighthouse or whatever.
Speaker 5 (42:38):
Right, But since you brought up this ex boyfriend, it's
kind of made me think that he they've talked several
times that day, there's been I guess he's got obsessive tendencies.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
And now that that was a previous one. The more
recent one did not have.
Speaker 4 (42:53):
The obsessive Oh, this is a separate ex, a separate ex.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
So you had William who was obsessive, and then you
have Scott. Okay, and Scott was the one that she
was more frequently talking to recently.
Speaker 5 (43:05):
Interesting, but I still wonder if the previous one, who
does is more obsessive, had contact with her enough to
know where she worked or had access to the island
or something.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
And he was an active officer in another city but
in the area, you know.
Speaker 5 (43:22):
Yeah, So I could probably figure it out, but I
don't know right right now, I'm leaning towards maybe this
wasn't some a local. This wasn't a local that somebody
knew that she was gonna be by herself or I
don't know, but I don't know how somebody.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
But she did call in. You know that I show
you know, I got three you know, there's three people
I'm about to address. Oh, okay, hear that, Yeah, and
you hear you even hear her confronting them. But hey,
there's no need for a gun. Put the gun down, right,
So there was somebody there?
Speaker 2 (43:54):
How about this? There were drug deals that she said
were by the lighthouse, right, And I believe this is
a is a suicide as much as you know, I
believe in our government being trustworthy. You know. It's just
like if you remember Vince Foster in the Whitewater scandal,
he was topped twice in the back of the skull
(44:17):
and they called that the official reporters, that's a suicide
because apparently the first shot wasn't enough. He wasn't happy
with it, so hitting himself again, kiss my ass. Right situations,
And I think that she did come upon something and
(44:37):
possibly what happened was she gets out of the car,
approaches them, you know, within shot where they able to
hear it, and they pull a gun on her and
she's like, hey, no need for a gun. They've got
her under the gun one of the other guys. She's
way for thin and tiny.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
She's just laughing in the green.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
Oh okay. So they pull her gun out of the holster.
One of the threes behind her, boom takes her out.
That explosion of blood goes on this person's hand because
when you hit that close, it's there's a lot of
blood up through here. This white head wounds are always
(45:18):
so difficult to deal with because there's so much blood
flow they look ten times worse than they actually are.
So caps are boom, blood goes all over the hand.
For whatever reason, you know, puts the hand on the truck.
They position the body after dragging it away from the
truck for whatever reason, I don't know, and they're like, oh,
this has got to look for like a suicide. Well,
(45:40):
tuck the gun underneath her, because you know that makes sense,
right right.
Speaker 5 (45:47):
I wonder what this particular kind of wound like if
if this was like an instant fatality, or if if
there was any possibility that she had any motor function
host gunshot. I would assume just being shot in the
head that it's like almost just like instant, like bah drop.
Speaker 4 (46:06):
Right.
Speaker 5 (46:07):
So the fact that there's any distance between any kind
of blood streaks or any evidence of her moving would
have to be somebody else moving.
Speaker 4 (46:18):
Her and not under her own power. I can only assume.
Speaker 1 (46:22):
But I don't know. So there's there's a good no, no, no,
never mind. There's another aspect of this that kind of
is even more interesting to me is that they're ruling
it a suicide. Uh. There's something called so an officer's
death benefits, So the family is like, okay, well, if
(46:43):
you're going to do this, we want her death benefits
if an officer an on If an on duty officer
commits suicide, the family does not get the death benefits.
Speaker 5 (46:53):
It's just like a like a like a mercy killings.
It's like a doctor Kavorkian thing here. This is like
a setup, a setup suicide and arranged suicide.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
So that's what I'm wondering. But the officer's death of it,
if it's suicide, they don't get any of the records nothing.
So in October of two thousand and three, the bus
present a case to North Carolina Industrial Commission. The family
brings in a clinical psychologists who says that based on
her recent activity prior to her death, they don't see
(47:24):
a reason why she would have been in the suicidal mind.
They also said that the three people they also brought
in three people similar size of ds to attempt to
reenact a suicide shot to the back of the head,
and all of them struggled and could not accurately do
it in the position. Shocking, I know, right. They also
(47:48):
argued that there was no apparent danger to officers at
the zone to be declared to hot zone, especially because
Keith had already searched the area and then found her,
approached her, attempted to get a pulls back to the car,
and then decided, oh wait, you know, maybe they're still here.
They also argued that there was lost of valuable evidence
(48:10):
from removing the body and the scene, and the opposition
said that the blood was probably deseed anyways, so we
didn't think we needed to attest it. They never found
out whose handprint it was on the truck, and then
the final answer still is that her death was ruled undetermined,
but the family did get the death benefits, and that
(48:33):
does mean that they could not burn or get rid
of the evidence. They had to keep it and give
to them.
Speaker 5 (48:39):
Okay, So if I don't really know how this works
as far as the law goes, but if a death
has ruled a suicide versus a homicide, is there any
difference in how they collect evidence or store evidence or
anything like that, or if it's like it is a suicide,
(49:01):
that it's like, well that's it, folks go home, right
whether or not, I mean, it's okay, So this is
a stupid comparison, But you know how like in the NFL,
they change the rules, like if it's a close call,
you go ahead and call it a touchdown because it's
a reviewable play, right, go ahead and call a touchdown.
We can go look at it again. If they don't
rule the touchdown, well, oh you can challenge it or whatever.
(49:23):
But I feel like you would almost be like, hey,
this is pretty suspicious. Let's go ahead and call it
a home's homicide so that we can keep looking at
this a little bit further, rather than like washing your
hands clean of it.
Speaker 4 (49:35):
R Does that makes sense?
Speaker 1 (49:36):
Yes? And I'm not really sure what the stipulations are
on it.
Speaker 2 (49:41):
But it's very litter of the law. Like you have
a death and you have a crime scene. First of all,
you have to courton off the area.
Speaker 1 (49:52):
Right.
Speaker 4 (49:52):
Did you impound the truck at least you can get
that out of the area.
Speaker 2 (49:55):
Yes, And I mean remember we said bag the hands
and all that other stuff. You would of course do
all of those things, especially with being an officer involved shooting.
You know, you don't, like you said, you don't suicide.
We're good. That's not at all what you're supposed to
do procedurally. There's so many things that they did not
do in this This scenario, suicide should cut her own
(50:24):
head off absolutely with the gun.
Speaker 1 (50:27):
I've seen it a hundred times.
Speaker 4 (50:30):
I had a.
Speaker 2 (50:31):
Dollar for every time.
Speaker 1 (50:35):
What what do you guys think happened? Like, what do
you guys like, what's your final thoughts on this?
Speaker 4 (50:43):
Oh? Shoot man, we're wrapping up here. Okay, Well that's
the last of the information.
Speaker 1 (50:48):
I mean, if you okay some of it first, we
can do that.
Speaker 5 (50:54):
I I still am almost kind of leaning back towards
like how we were talking earlier about you know, this
a high profile person or person's kid who they were
fucking around or smoking pot or just hanging out and
doing things that they weren't supposed to do. You know,
they are of an very affluent area, affluent family, and uh,
(51:17):
you know, this lady confronted her and somebody was off
taking a piss the other direction and came up and
was and maybe they were just trying to fuck with
her at first, but you know, but that's a that's
a pretty that's a pretty good shot at close range
if they took her down. So I feel like maybe
there was some intent. This lady's been getting on their nerves.
(51:38):
She's hassling them all the time, and then it's oh shit,
what do we do? I just still there's like in
the evening of there's like almost zero attempt to cover
their tracks except for once everybody gets involved, and once
everybody gets involved, then the whole thing goes away.
Speaker 1 (51:59):
Well, and I'm thinking, Okay, so she sees people with
a gun, she calls it in, so she's near her
vehicle most likely, I'm guessing if there's somebody with a gun,
I know most officers stay near their vehicle. Yeah. Uh,
so somebody comes up and shoots her in the back
of the head. I mean, does she go, oh man
and grab the back of her head and then stumbles,
maybe grabs her truck and maybe she does stumble over
(52:23):
to that area then fall down and that's where she
ends up dying. But I don't think that she would
have done it to herself and done all of that
tracking with the gun still in her hand to fall
down where she did, and the bullet shell casing was
in a fence in an whole other area, not even
(52:43):
by the truck. So it just it doesn't make sense
that she would have done it, like in my mind,
And I'm thinking, like kind of like what you're saying,
they're smoking pot they were selling to somebody and she
shows up and she's like, well, fuck this bitch, we
all hate her anyway, right boom, and then they're like,
mommy and daddy'll take care of it. Yeah. So that's
(53:06):
that's where I'm at with the scenario, because you know,
if it's a local fire chief and everybody knows them
and they're like, hey, here's here's one hundred grand, just
just take care, right.
Speaker 4 (53:17):
But also I can only imagine there would have been
some kind of altercation because I mean I wouldn't imagine
that somebody would have really just snatched this gun away
from her. If she already saw that somebody was armed,
I feel like she would have already had control of
her own firearm. Somebody would have had to take it
from her and not snatched out of the holster.
Speaker 1 (53:38):
Right.
Speaker 5 (53:38):
And then the fact that the gun is totally clean.
I mean, you're not going to have a totally clean
gun if there's an altercation like that where somebody ripped
her gun out of her hands or wrestled her to
the ground, or I would also want if there's any
other wounds like she had, like scraped knees, a bumped head,
you know any kind of defensive marks.
Speaker 4 (53:56):
Any who knows man's sketch.
Speaker 1 (54:03):
Divine says, I think she ruffled a few too many
feathers in her department in the community, by the sounds
of things, they didn't investigate that correctly, and in order
to appease the locals, her chief says, oh, you're not
allowed to go out alone. So he's clearly got some
sort of connection with people on the island. If he's
doing that too, people are going above her.
Speaker 2 (54:26):
Gruy. I have a different theory on this now it.
Speaker 1 (54:30):
I love it. It's I think I was gonna say
it's a gypsy, gypsy roses mom gypsy.
Speaker 2 (54:36):
Hell. Yeah, I think this was a setup. I think
this was an ambush, and I'll tell you why. I
think what happened was she goes out by herself when
she's never supposed to do. So there's the first red flag, right,
and somehow this guy was left behind and he was like, oh,
(54:59):
I doing this or whatever the fuck it was. So
she's out and about and she's already keyed into the
lighthouse being a problem, and see some guys out there.
Her truck was still running, so she stops the truck opens,
the door, gets out, somebody comes from out behind. And
(55:25):
this is where I'm calling bullshit on the fact that
it was her gun. I think they lied. I don't
think it was her gun that was used. I think
because standard issue. Now I don't know about that particular,
but standard issue is the nine millimeter, Okay for most
police departments, all right, and folks look it up. But
(55:48):
I'm telling you, and if you put a nine mil
to the back of somebody's head, there is a high
probability that it's going to out the front. But that
did not happen. There were no exit wounds. And what
I'm thinking is somebody came up from behind her with
(56:09):
a smaller caliber thing. So she parks, gets out, pops
her in the back of the head. And I have
heard of cases where people been shot in the head
of a smaller caliber weapon and they are still kind
of dazed enough, but they can move around for like
a bit, and then they collapse. She reaches back, touches
(56:30):
the back of her head, stumbles her. That's where the
bloody palm print is on the truck. Stumbles forward, falls down,
dragging herself, stops the dummy or one of the dummies
picks up her gun and I bet you one of
(56:51):
the guys said, stupid, your handprints on your fingerprints are
on the gun. They clean the son of a bitch
and then a panic stuff it under her body. That's
why it's on this side, and then they beat feet
out of there. I think Divine was right. I think
she ruffled some feathers and the people that are complicit
go all the way from the community to the office,
(57:12):
you know, like the sheriff and everybody else. I think
at some level everybody's known this, from her partner to
the sheriff to the people on the island. I think
this thing they wanted her gone happened.
Speaker 1 (57:27):
Yeah. I think that's a pretty accurate answer.
Speaker 4 (57:34):
Well, I'm this is.
Speaker 1 (57:44):
This is what sucks though. Man. It's like the fact
that like it doesn't matter if you got money and
you know the right people, you can hide anything.
Speaker 4 (57:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (57:55):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 4 (57:55):
It's such an isolated area too.
Speaker 1 (57:57):
It's like, yeah, so the and the ferry ride was
about seven minutes from the mainland, so you know, it's
not like it was a far far drive. Like I said,
it's like a peninsula off of North Carolina and a
bunch of like swampy land. It was a couple of
little beaches but no roads, and then at the very
edge of the ensilas it's like tiny little town. So yeah,
(58:20):
I mean the easiest way to get to them back
is is their boat. So yeah, that's what we got tonight, guys.
That's what we had for this episode. I think it
was a lot of fun, a lot a lot of
jumping around, and I think it's definitely like an inside job.
Speaker 4 (58:37):
God, I wish I had a little bit more information.
It's just that's why I do things like this.
Speaker 1 (58:43):
People dig in and not only do I want you
to dig in that way. You guys know, I'm not lying.
Speaker 2 (58:51):
It's great every time, man, this is it's great. It's
just it's frustrating because like anybody that's listened to this
can smell the bullshit right off they get. You know,
it's one of those questions of you know, would your
government do this? Absolutely they would at the top levels,
(59:11):
all the way down to the lowest levels. And I'm
telling you, I used to be the managing editor of
a newspaper in a county in Indiana, and I saw
more corruption in that little shitburg of a town in
county than I've ever watched on Law and Order. I'm
talking about stealing drugs from ambulances, taking fish fry donations,
and going up to Chicago on a party bus, you know,
(59:33):
with the funds from the fundraisers, attempted murders, all kinds
of shit, like, all kinds of stuff, and that was
just at a county level with volunteer departments fire em
I mean, guys, are you kidding me?
Speaker 1 (59:55):
All right, well, I want to give everybody a thank
you both you guys, Sean and Thomas for being on tonight. Thomas,
this is very last minute for you, so thank you.
Speaker 4 (01:00:04):
Oh yeah, glad to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:00:05):
Yeah. These are of all the shows I do, this
is like second of my top two. Stardom will always
be my number one only because it gets the most
of you, is out of all my shows. Yeah, but
this is climbing quickly.
Speaker 4 (01:00:24):
Okay, Well I was happy to see people interacting too.
Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:00:27):
I appreciate everybody tuning in.
Speaker 1 (01:00:29):
Yeah exactly. We've got four people watching right now, well
on here, and then I've got like six people on
TikTok watching right.
Speaker 2 (01:00:35):
Now, so high tens of people.
Speaker 1 (01:00:38):
High tens and tons of people. We appreciate you guys,
and we appreciate the guests as well. Thomas Man, we'll
have you back on again. Thank you. Our other co host, Evolution,
could not make it tonight, but it happens, so yeah.
Until next time, everybody will see around
So clearly they endured something pretty intense. There was two women, yes,
and seven guys, So to me, that's a problem already.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Eyebrows missing burn marks, eyeballs missing tone missing.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Yeah, the bones decame to that degree in just four years.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
I just don't see that type of daygle.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
There's just so much that's off about on both sides.
Both sides seem real suspect. You know, it's the South,
so maybe dental records are a bit trickier down there
because they only have maybe one or two cheeks to
identify them by it.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Have you guys ever had that, Like you've driven by
a house on the middle of nowhere, You're like, I
don't wonder who lives there? What's going on? Oh yeah,
this is gonna be one of those what's happening everybody?
Welcome back to JG's Lounge. I'm really jukebox and we're
(01:14):
doing another singed Eye sockets.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Man.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
We've been having so much fun with these, uh and
I'm excited to see how this one goes, which will
probably go pretty damn well. So, uh, welcome back our
co host Sean Man.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
How you doing fantastic? Man, I'm just you know, been
spending my evening getting ready for a trip tomorrow. So
it's it's been. It's been a little bit. Zen, to
be honest with you.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
That's good. Zen is good man. It can't beat Jeff
for that one. How about you, Thomas Man, your return
guests for this episode, how you doing.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
I'm good man. Uh, just excited to be back on
It's been a little while.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Definitely last minute situation, but you know, I'm glad you're here.
Hell yeah. So our last episode we did was a JH.
Holmes That was a lot of fun. We got a
lot of good feedback from that one. I still feel
like there was probably some more that we could have
dived into, but you know, it is, it is what
it is. Uh. You know, we leave some of that
(02:11):
up for you guys to go find out for yourself,
but overall, I think it went great. Tonight, we are
going to be talking about Divina buff Jones, and for
any of you who are unfamiliar with her, she was
an officer who was killed on duty and we're gonna
talk about some of the details of the night she
(02:33):
died and some of the investigations and see what you
guys think. So it's October twenty second, nineteen ninety nine.
This is uh, this is I literally just had it
on the top of my head. Good start, good, Yes,
we're great. It's like uh, Dark Bluff, North Island, North Carolina,
(02:59):
North Carolina. I even have images that I had pulled up,
but I can't find them, so we're just gonna keep rolling.
It's a very wealthy island off the coastlines of North Carolina,
very wealthy community, tight knit. They kind of it's like
a peninsula, but a good chuck of the peninsula is
just isolated, like swamp lands, you know, alligator infested waters
(03:23):
like stuff like that. It's it's not very inhabited. But
the very end of the peninsula is like this wealthy
community of properties that are about half a million to
three million dollars properties, so small local community. And there's
these guards. Their name is Keith Kane and his partner
Divina buff They're both on duty. It's eleven forty five pm.
(03:46):
They take a ferry to get to the island for
their shifts, and d is deciding I'm gonna go out
and patrol while Keith is back at the office eating
and shortly after that, within like about five minute window,
from that eleven forty five PM to this time. She
(04:07):
calls in from just to dispatch, saying forty two oh six,
which is their car number, and she says ten to
four show me out with three, which means that she's
spotted several people, uh with or it doesn't really say what,
but I do have the audio clip of what she
called in. I'm gonna let us. We're gonna listen to
this really quick. That's not it. Bear with me. I
(04:31):
got a few videos that I'm gonna play here.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
You know, it's an exciting podcast. When I can hear
the wind outside we're off and running, I guess, well,
well he's getting that worked around. My first thought about
this officer is I'd like to see a picture of her,
cause it's just he said the name buff and my
first madery is just like yoked out, you know, like
(05:03):
you know what I mean, like misfitness USA type lady. Yeah, yeah,
so interesting to see what her physics.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
We were just talking about you actually.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Of a job I do at these lives?
Speaker 4 (05:23):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Yeah, no, actually I was. I was asking Thomas, like
they're telling Thomas that by just by the name, my
curiosity is peaked as far as her physicality, you know,
is I mean she like kind of yoked out, you know,
misfitness us a type? Or was she like a type?
Speaker 1 (05:44):
So I have let's see, here's the audio with a
picture of her. Actually, let's do this, Okay, I was
trying to find it anyways when I exited myself out
of this. But here it's a very short clip. I'll
play it one more time and then I can tell
you what she said. So what comes over the intercom
(06:18):
is there ain't no reason to have a gun here
on Bulkhead Island. Do me a favor. Put down the gun,
That's what she says, and dispatch picks that up. She's tiny,
She's a very tiny person. I do have. I did
have an image of her, you know, I can actually
pull up an image of her.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Let's do that, say, just from the image that you
had on the thing, she doesn't look like.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Yeah, she's not a very big big person at.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
All here, which is not to say small female cops aren't,
you know, little Tasmanian devils in their own right.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
But yeah, let's do this. I'm gonna I'll pull us
off so and I'll see, yeah, a little bit dude,
but yeah, she's tiny and she's not a very big
person at all.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Okay, that would be a weird accent for North Carolina, like, oh,
have you got that gone?
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Now?
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Don't you be down here on the island.
Speaker 4 (07:23):
Why don't you put that down now?
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Okay, okay, now okay. So yeah, she's she's a tiny
she's a very tiny officer. So she calls in that dispatch.
Within minutes, her partners out the door, like going to
find her. He's trying to radio to dispatch, like, hey,
have you heard where she's at? Like, no, We've called
(07:46):
several times, we've got nothing. So he's cruising around and
he spots the tail lights of her truck near a
lighthouse about seven minutes after the initial call. Okay, and
her truck is backed into an alleyway near the light
house and it's on, but there's no D. So the
(08:08):
headlights are on, it's running. D's nowhere to be found.
He searches the area, can't find her, goes back to
her truck and finds her light sitting on the passenger
seat of her truck. At this point, he's a little frantic,
not sure what to do, so he looks around again
with his flashlight and he spots her body laying in
(08:30):
the street, not far from the truck. He goes up.
He approaches her, he sees that her eyes are still
slightly open, she's laying on her stomach with her head
turned to the left, and her handgun is underneath her
right hand. So he freaks out and runs back to
(08:52):
his vehicle to call for backup and repositions his vehicle
and during the time, he's thinking they might still be here,
I should probably, you know, go hide. So the next
the chief fire inspector is the next one to arrive
on the scene, and he approaches Keith and he's like, hey,
(09:13):
what's going on. So they're both huddled behind his vehicle, thinking, okay,
maybe this is a hot zone. Then the killer is
still there, which doesn't necessarily make sense to me because
he had already searched the area before he even found.
Speaker 5 (09:27):
D Right, He's like, he has like scoped out because
he's looking for her, right, yes, So he's looking around
and comes back and sees her in the street in
the all.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Yeah, she's in the street. The truck was in the alley,
her body's in the street nearby, but that's where we're
at so far. But I'm thinking from an officer standpoint, like,
why would you be freaking out, like maybe they're still
here if if you already searched the area and you've
already checked her b He even tells that the fire chief,
(10:04):
you know, I couldn't find a pulse. I don't know,
I'm a little frantic, but I didn't feel a pulse.
So they both wait until the paramedics show up, and
then they immediately tell the paramedics to remove the body
from the scene, to get it to a safe location
before they you know, rule you know her, whether she's
alive or dead, which is suspicious also to me because
(10:27):
it's a it's a crime scene. You got a shot, officer, Yeah,
set up a perimeter, secure the area, like, don't touch anything, right,
what do you got? Sean?
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Well as somebody who is an EMT for some years,
exactly one of the first things that I will tell you.
And I don't know if situations have changed or if
they have different rules for emergency situations on Potluck Island
or whatever this place is called, but I can remember
(11:00):
as an example, I can remember one very specific we
got toned out to a bar and it was a
gsw to the neck, and when we got there, we
weren't allowed to exit the bus until the officers told
us that the scene was secure. Like we literally were sitting,
(11:20):
you know, just with our twiddling our thumbs and waiting
for the cops go in and out and inspect the car.
The guy's you know, and this is a whole other story.
It's ridiculous, but we probably sat still. I mean, it
must have been seven to ten minutes until the scene
(11:40):
was secured. And this dude's literally sitting inside the bar
with a gunshot wound through his neck, went through here,
popped out the back cavitation, didn't hit anything vital. He
had a stack of bartels, and he's literally bleeding out
and we're waiting until the cops say right, that story aside,
(12:02):
The point being if that's the general rule, and the
cops are huddled behind the car, what does he do?
Poke his head over the trunk and go.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
Get her body out?
Speaker 2 (12:13):
The killers might still be here, exactly.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
It's a hot zone. But you're okay with the parandematics
going in and removing the body.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
We're going to defend themselves with the trauma. What are
we talking about here?
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Yeah, So like right off the bat, and I'm you know,
we a lot more than I do Sean about this stuff.
Like I'm already thinking I wouldn't have handled it like this,
and I'm just a common civilian, you know.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Well, here's I don't know, Thomas, I don't know if
this stuck out fishy to you. But what is there patrolling?
Uhsion like division of duties while they're there? Because you
said partner and they took the ferry out to the island.
So what happens like one gets in one car, one
gets the other, and they patrol different ends of the island.
(13:02):
I mean you say partners, So my brain is going
they ride together right.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Well, and that that'll come up here in a little
bit too, okay. And she wasn't supposed to leave on
her own to go patrol, but I'll talk about that.
It's in my notes, okay.
Speaker 5 (13:18):
I can only imagine that this is like a very
very very well you said, it's kind of a ritzy community.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
It's a very ritchy small local community.
Speaker 5 (13:27):
This is not a place where people really take a
second guess at like in this area.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Right, And it's a it's called Bulkhead Island, and so
it is a wealthy, small community, and I keep putting
emphasis on the wealthy because I think it has a
lot to do with why a lot of things happen
the way it is, and we can kind of touch
on that as we continue to go through this. Somebody
saw something they shouldn't have, or they just are like,
we don't want this in our community, so let's get
(13:55):
rid of it, right just anyways, So the pair actually
move the body that take them to the marina to
wait for a fairy to take it back to the mainland.
At the at the marina, while they're waiting, they try
to get her pulse twice and they determine Okay, she's
you know, she's dead, she's you know, can't bring her back.
(14:15):
There's also some civilians there from a restaurant right down
the street that heard the gunshots and was evacuated to
the marina. So they're also waiting on the ferry, and
several of them said that they had actually seen her body,
which should have been covered. In my opinion, Yeah, shot, good.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
John point of curiosity when determining morbidity. They're just willy
nilly checking the pulse.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
You know.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
It seems like a very doctor Nick from The Simpsons,
thing like no pulse, she's dead. Oh well kind of
situation like you have to attach the at least a
free lead, and all kinds of things you're saying. All
they do was check for the polls twice and it's like.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Eh, yeah, she's gone. Yeah, that's that's what they said.
So that's all the information rning of the reports that
I got. Okay, so that's what I'm going with what
they did. So after these removed, hold on and take
it to the mainland, Keith goes in and it's during
(15:25):
the same time. Keith goes in and takes the gun
from the scene and places it on the ground next
to his vehicle and then at some point decides to
pick it up and put it in the floorboard of
his truck. No, no reason behind it. This is another officer.
So another thing that I'm pretty sure you don't do.
Is this her partner, That her actual partner, Yeah, the
(15:48):
one who actually found her. The reason behind it? Nothing.
Out of everything I looked up, I got no answer.
So he puts on At the marina, the paramats found
that the singles she had a single shot at the
center of the back of her head, they checked for
her poles. She was pronounced dead. They like I said
(16:12):
that they several civilians saw her on the ferry. They
had her wrapped twice with sheets to kind of prevent
exposure from the atmosphere, which at this point they are
people had already seen her, which makes no sense anyways,
So a lot of this in my mind, Sean, he
can know what you got, man.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
So this gunshot went to the back of the head.
If it didn't come out the front, I'm assuming it
was a smaller caliber, like perhaps at twenty two. Was
there any stippling on or like around the wound? Did it? Say?
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Later on the the odutopsy, the pathologist talks about kind
of the rupture of the skull and how it had
to be like up against her head in order to
have gone off.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Yes, that's what I'm saying. So it sounds like it
was execution style.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Yes, which would make very difficult for I mean for
somebody themselves to do. And you saw her size, so
she wasn't exactly a very big person. Hey, darkness on TikTok,
I thank you for tuning in and sharing all the likes.
Somebody's watching us, guys. Oh my day anyways. Okay, so
(17:26):
the medical examiner when she gets back to the main
Land overestimates her height and her weight. D is actually
just under five feet and weighs just under one hundred pounds.
The examiner reports that she is five to four and
weighs one hundred and forty pounds. He also says that
the gunshot when an entry, is on the right side
(17:49):
of her head, underneath her ear, which is not making
any sense because that's where her head laid in the
pool of the blood. This is coming from the medical
This is from the medical exams on the mainland.
Speaker 5 (18:02):
Yeah, like their their entire career a lot of times,
like like cases in court rely on their on their
report for seeing and evidence that was taken from it,
like like entire like murder cases can be thrown out
for these kinds of mistakes.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Right, Yeah, my gosh, And you got to think, like
this is all within a very small span window. Investigators
already on the scene. You have the county and the SBI,
which is a state Bureau of investigation and sean, what
you got, man.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
So did this medical examiner take a liver temp to
determine that.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
None of the reports? Okay, what would be the purpose
of the liver exam.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Okay, So basically what they do is they take a
their mom jam it down into liver because that is
like core temp and by doing some mathematical equations, they
are able to deduce, like by its temperature, this is
when the person died versus the temperature it's outside, blah
blah blah, laying on the pavement. That all can affect
(19:14):
the things, but they're able to get basically rough estimation
of when this person died. So if you have this
garbled thing that came through and she says, well, there's
no need for a gun, that means she saw the gun,
but yet somebody came up behind her and popped the
(19:35):
shot into her brain pan. Right, This all makes no sense.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
It doesn't. It kind of reminds you that the two
Boys on the Tracks, remember that one where like none
of it really lined up. You weren't a part of
that one, Thomas, But yeah, it was a weird one.
This one's just as weird being Okay, So investigators here
what the ruling was from the matter cool examiner. So
they're automatically starting to think possible suicide because the examiner
(20:04):
said it was on the right side, underneath the ear right.
Uh So, now people on the islander start being suspicious
and the crime scene is being flooded with by the
SBI and the County. At the scene, there is a
pool of blood drops the blood between the pool of
(20:25):
blood and her truck, so where she was laying to
the truck, there's there's drops of blood. Along the side
of the truck. There's blood, and there's a bloody handprint
on the tailgate of the of the truck. At this point,
what do you think you would do with some of
that information?
Speaker 4 (20:46):
So this is her truck. This is her truck that
she yess vehicle?
Speaker 5 (20:50):
Yes, well, I want to know does this is all
this blood the same blood? It all comes from the
same person, right, And then I would like to see
if there's any other wounds on the victim. I mean,
I'm thinking maybe were they transported to their point of
execution or their point of death, or or you know
(21:13):
where they shot and then dragged to this or carried
to this location. Also, the middle of the street is
a pretty bad spot to hide a body unless you're
trying to like send a message of some kind, right,
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Oh ye, Well, crime any dude, Like, Okay, first of all,
like one hundred percent agree typing the blood where it's at,
you know, and getting to see if it is all
from the same person, for one for two bag her hands?
Why because if she did, you know, do this thing,
(21:50):
we GSR gunshot residue would be on the hand, right, Okay.
So the other thing is, I would want to know
what caliber bullet went into her skull because if that
was fired from her gun, right then you'd want to
(22:13):
do a ballistics match. I would also check the gun
to see if a bullet was fired from it, because
if a bullet wasn't fired from it, that means it
wasn't suicide. And if she doesn't have GSR on her hands,
that also means she did not commit suicide. And you know,
and what kind of gun did she have? Did she have?
You know, a do they standard issue revolvers? Was it
a snubnose? Did she have a nine mil? I mean
(22:37):
like all these things like these are all the questions
that are popping up into my head about this whole thing.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
And you were just an EMT, right, Yeah, So they
did none of that. They didn't collect any of the blood,
They assumed it was all hers. There were there.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
I'm going to quit my job. We're going to go
down to be medical examiner examiners at Rock Island, you know,
because there there are no standards.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
And when I heard that they didn't collect any of that,
I'm like, okay. So she shoots herself on the back
of the head, walks to the back of her car,
puts her hamper on the back of the car while
holding the gun. Still ends up going, you know, however,
many feet away from her truck, and then decides to
lay down and die. That doesn't make sense.
Speaker 5 (23:32):
And there is no exit wound, just one, just the
entry wound.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Yeah, they end up finding the bullet shell, which we'll
talk about here shortly. But yeah, actually that's the next
thing that I have on here. They did actually find it.
Drag marks from the truck to the body. Some of
the reports show that, but some of them don't show that.
So there's inconsistencies and reports between investigators and officers as well.
(23:58):
The shell casing was found near the body, actually by
a picket fence, and it did match what the officers
on the islands used for their guns.
Speaker 4 (24:09):
It did or did not. It did it did match.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
They were both collected for evidence, but like I said,
it was already tampered with by her partner, Keith, who
removed the gun from the scene like an idiot. Okay,
So Keith gets interviewed by one of the investigators. He says, Oh,
it was a normal night.
Speaker 4 (24:27):
You know.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
We met on the ferry, typical head of the island.
He said that they had to approach a couple of
men on the drunk that were on the ferry that
we're getting drunk because it's not allowed, and they stopped.
He said the only call they had that night was
from a restaurant asking for them to escort some guest
home after their golf cart was stolen, which is apparently
(24:48):
pretty common on this island because people get confused when
they're drunk and whatever took the wrong accidentally took the
wrong cart whatever. So he said, that's that's all I
had done. They went back to the office. They were
filing some paperwork and to see then D was like, hey,
I'm gonna go back out and patrol and yes, darkness,
this is a real story. You can look it up.
(25:10):
Thank you for watching this. So D is not supposed
to be out patrolling alone. So this is where we
find out some of the stuff about d D has
a very black and white view of the law. You're
either doing something wrong or you're not. There's no wiggle room.
(25:31):
And we're a very wealthy community who probably kind of
thinks highly of themselves, maybe a little conceited, thinking they
can get away with some stuff, which some of the
officers on the island probably kind of cater to.
Speaker 4 (25:45):
Well.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
She did it. She had only been in there for
ten months and had multiple complaints against her, so the
police chief told her that she was not allowed to
proll alone to certify the locals. So this was in place,
so Keith was never supposed to let her go. She did. Anyways,
the investigators go to the's parents to inform them about
(26:08):
what's going on, and they're like, hey, we'd really like
to go see her house, and they go with her.
They're like, yeah, we'll take you over there. And the
only thing they found that was a little odd was
that a pair of her shoes, which this is on
the mainland, this isn't on the island, are propping the
back door open, and there's a tarp kind of overlaying
the door, and this is. I mean, she had a
couple of dogs, and the parents are like, you know,
(26:29):
maybe it's just so the dogs could get it in
and out while she's at work. But the investigators don't
see it this way. They're like, maybe she's just doing
this to prepare for not coming back, you know. So
just to add on to this suicide theory. Yeah, but
there's nothing unusual besides that that they find in the house.
Autopsy result comes back and it's confirmed that the death
(26:51):
was by the gunshot womb in the back of the
head with the chamber against the head, based on the
skull fracture that the gun had left. So there's that.
So again we're back to confirmed that is here. So
if we're if we're going with suicide, that's extremely difficult.
I hear, that's extremely difficult for literally anybody to do.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
I mean.
Speaker 5 (27:17):
Also, if I'm going to kill myself, I feel like
that's just hard a good way to screw it up,
you know, right, Yeah, I feel like there's a yeah,
there's easier ways to do it.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
But okay, so I I appreciate that justin as noted,
but this is being recorded on YouTube, so whatever, the
only thing they'll do on here is is on TikTok
is say, I can't use the recording, but they haven't
shut it off yet, so thank you though. Anyways, what
we're gonna say, Thomas.
Speaker 5 (27:48):
Well, okay, so I keep going back to like like
if this is a small area, it's an isolated area,
they don't see a lot of activity as far as
actual like I'm gonna consider real crime, like violent crime.
Speaker 4 (28:04):
This could have just.
Speaker 5 (28:05):
Been something that was like just completely fumbled, just completely
mishandled by the authorities where you got like a maybe
it's like a police staff of like fifteen people and
they never see shit like this, and they're like something
like actually happens, and they're like, oh god, we are
not prepared for this sort of thing, Like this is
not a city center, this is not a metropolitan area,
(28:27):
Like we don't handle this kind of thing. They probably
haven't seen anything like this in years, if ever, right,
and so they just they just fucked it up. They
just fucked it up, you know, like I don't know,
get her gun, let's get her out of here.
Speaker 4 (28:41):
I don't like see like I.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Was I was thinking about that too, But that's just
like the clumsiness is one thing yeah, but like you've
got SBI involved, You've got you know, county involved. It's
not just like this little tiny islands police forces at
this point. There's plenty of people there, and I just
(29:04):
I feel like there's too much that that is just coincidental,
and it only gets it's only it only gets weirder.
Speaker 5 (29:10):
Yeah, it's just so strange because it's such an isolated
it's such an isolated area, so I feel like who
is coming to and from this particular area is being
monitored heavily, so there would more than likely be a
record of whoever was on or off, whoever it entered
or exited that area at that time, right whatever.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
So I do want to say, uh jah, justin, I
just got a notification on TikTok saying that it's been restricted.
So thanks anyway, Sean, did you have something wanted to
add to it?
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Well, I have two theories, all right. So here's the
first theory. She did commit suicide. So she shoots herself
in the back of the head. She's she's triple jointed,
so she's able to get all the way around and
shorts herself in the back of the head and then
reaches back and touches it and goes, oh my god,
I've shot myself in the back of the head, leans
(30:08):
against the truck. That's where the handprint comes from, and
then to get away from the truck because she doesn't
want to get blood on it because she's going to
be you know, she wants to like will it to
somebody else in her family. She grabs herself by the
lapels and drags herself across the pavement. So that's where
the drag marks come from.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
And that's exactly what I thought happened.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Actually, So she drags herself across the pavement, and then
as she's falling to the ground, you know, she says,
I better tuck my gun under my body in front
of my hand, which makes no sense with the physics
of it of falling, so that the youth in the
area don't get to my gun. So that's my first
(30:54):
real quick is that, given that she is very black
and white in the way she've viewsed the you have
an area where there are nothing but pampered rich people
who raise pampered rich kids. And if you've ever been
around a pampered rich kid, nine times out of ten
their assholes and they're very entitled. She probably came across
(31:15):
some young folks that did not take kindly to her
telling them not to do something, and they pulled a
gun on her and they ended her life because they
didn't like being told what to do. And there's cover
up from the get go, because the officers knew who
(31:39):
did it, and because of the influence and everything else,
they are intentionally bumbling this.
Speaker 4 (31:49):
Yeah, it's like a senator's kid or something.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
So here's where it gets better. So the news on
the island's getting spread pretty quick. You know, the the
civilians that saw her were telling people who told other people. Uh.
And and the idea of murder is making all the
residents uncomfortable. So the the police department's like, hey, we
need we need to do a press conference real quick.
(32:16):
So they do. And the only thing that any of
the residents are really pushing for is not to find
the murderer, but to make this crime scene gone, like,
get rid of it. Let's let's get it, get it
closed and done with. And the reason why is because
they don't want any trace of it because of the
tourism that they attract. They don't want they don't want
(32:39):
to affect the tourism. Ah, it makes makes a lot
of sense, right' It's.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Oh my god, it's like watching Jaws with you know,
I don't care what you have to do, but with
this bitch, beach will be open.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Somebody just said safer over here. Look at the TikTok
crowd coming on over to the YouTube. Thank you, appreciate you.
You're right, TikTok is label all their restrictions. We do
what it's a subject. It's a subject, man. They'll restrict
you for anything. It's it's we're talking about death and
blood and so whatever. It's fine. But like I can
(33:21):
stream it live, people can watch it live, but it
won't like afterwards, I can't access like the recording or anything.
And if it's too bad, they can. They can block
me for so long. I'm not too worried about it.
Oh okay. So eleven am they do the press conference.
We just went over that. After the press conference, the
chief investigator decides, you know, I'm gonna go back to
(33:44):
the crime scene. I'm not done with this yet. So
she shows up. There's nothing there. There's not a trace
of a crime scene. Even the pool of blood is gone.
So so this was eleven forty five at night and
this is eleven am when they have the press conference,
so within a twelve hour window that not only is
the crime scene completely gone, it's open to the public,
(34:09):
it's opened back up to the public. That the pool.
She finds out that one of the fire department trucks
hose down the pool blood. So there's there's literally no
trace of anything. It's just it's all gone. Huh.
Speaker 5 (34:24):
So it's pretty clear to me the way that this
community feels about not only about this particular officer, but
about so it's just like a red flag to me
that that these people aren't worried about the safety of
their community at all.
Speaker 4 (34:39):
Like I feel like.
Speaker 5 (34:42):
If I feel like if they were, if somebody got
shot down the street and the subject was at large,
I'd be like, oh shit, I'm locking my doors. Hey,
are you guys doing anything about this? Not like, well,
let's just sweep. I mean, I mean, we got a
lot to do tomorrow. We got we have an event planned, Like.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
Can we just well, it's funny that you say an event.
So after she does her the chief tries to find
out who ordered the hosing of the pool of blood.
She does find out there's a high profile wedding at
the church right near the crime scene. So maybe someone
(35:23):
was like, well, you know, we don't want to mess
up the wedding, so let's make sure we it's cleaned up.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
You know, someone some rich, bitchy old care Look, this
has cover up written all over it, and a bunch
of rich people who don't give a shit about anything
except what they want, and they erased this woman as
(35:50):
if she never existed. Dispose of her, get her out
of the way, and they use their little lackeys to
get it taken care of. Right. I think your assessment
of Senator Kid it is probably way closer than the
mark than than what we no.
Speaker 4 (36:07):
It's the old case of the affluenza.
Speaker 5 (36:09):
Do you do you guys remember there was like a
guy a few years back who they he got like
a super light sentence for something because they said that
it was a case of affluenza where he was such
a such a such a rich pampered kid that he
literally did not know what it meant to be told no,
or didn't really understand the difference between right and wrong.
(36:30):
That he was so it was it was his idea
of reality was so deluded by his like being just
being a rich kid that he couldn't really comprehend that
what he was doing was actually wrong, and so like
his lawyer like literally got him like a super light sentence,
if not totally off the hook. I can't remember, but
(36:51):
I remember the phrase that they dropped was affluenza.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Yep, yep, and and man it exists. I as a
matter of fact, I saw it today. I was grade
in papers tonight and Live PD or something was on
and this girl gets pulled over and the cops like, yeah,
you're drunk, you're going to jail. So she's in the
back of the car. And as they're going to the
to the lock up, she's in the.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
Back of the car. She's like, this never happens to me.
I'm such a I've I went to a good school,
I had a three point eight and and I'm pretty
you have to let me off because and she was
she was a smoke show. And it's like she's one
of these never say no girls who's been beautiful over life,
so everybody just hands shit to her.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
Right.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
It's that same kind of mentality with these affluenza focks, right,
and you know, so they think nothing of would I
would posit that this is some people that she came across,
possibly an HOA. I'm not going to rule that out.
Those fuckers are evil, right, so you know, maybe is
(38:00):
Karen that's running the ho AA got pissed off and
capped her.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Who knows, Yeah, says she does remember that video. I'm
guessing she's referring to yours shuns.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
Quite, I mean, possibly either that or the affluenza one.
Either way, they're disgusting, you know. And when she said
I'm pretty I just I'm just like, if I were,
this is why I would never be a successful cop,
because I would slam on the brake so her head
bounced off the cage and be like, what the fuck
does that happen?
Speaker 1 (38:31):
To the jail, I'd probably do the same thing. Okay,
So the chief decides to look into some of the
ex boyfriends. Uh. One of them William, who was also
an officer and another town over. Uh divine said money
talks tales oldest time. Unfortunately this is true, yep, so
(38:54):
he he works, he's he was a past officer and
now he's currently with the SBI, who was also called
to the crime scene. This is an ex of hers,
so she probably shouldn't have been there anyways. Yes, that's
a huge conflict. Anyways, Dee's family said that he was
obsessive in a loose Cannon said that their relationship had
(39:18):
some turbulence and they had been broken up for a while,
but they were like mutually you know what. Civil. But
he said that several weeks before she called him and
said that she was wanting to harm herself, but due
to a hurricane, it prevented him from going to check
on her. I don't know what that has to do
with anything other than maybe trying to say to add
(39:40):
to the fact that maybe she did kill herself. He
said he was home the night that she killed herself
and then went to see a friend before he was
called to the scene that she taught to another ex Scott,
who was a fellow police officer, who tells the investigators
they were on and off but still friends, said they
(40:00):
actually talked three times the day of her death, but
nothing came off of it, like they didn't have any
reason to tie him to the death. Investigators look into
people that she had given citations to and people who
had called and complained about her, and they were all cleared.
The family and the ex Scott said, oh, I skipped
(40:23):
way too far here. Hold On said that she was
talking about looking into drug activity on the island weeks prior,
something to do with pretty sure there was some money
or like drug deals going on near the lighthouse where
she was killed. The results from the bullet came back
as from her gun specifically around this time. The District
(40:46):
Attorney then comes up and says, with all the evidence,
it does point to suicide, which is mind boggling to me. Yeah,
a family does not agree with the DA and his
comments on his reports say that the gun was in
her right hand, but it wasn't. It was under her
(41:07):
right hand, so's a gun shot wound consistent with other
female suicides by gun also doesn't make sense the DA's
uh finalize his call on it before all the reports
were even in, because about a month later the crime
lab came back and said there was no They could
(41:27):
not find any id on the gun. Not nobody's idea
was on that gun.
Speaker 4 (41:32):
It was her gun and.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
Nothing. Yes, there was nothing. They said, they couldn't find
no identification on the gun whatsoever, which means that gun was.
Speaker 4 (41:43):
Cleaned, not even hers like, not even her her gun.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
No, No, there's no fingerprints on the gun.
Speaker 4 (41:52):
Yes, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
So I have.
Speaker 5 (41:58):
I have like a couple of quick, quick theories I
want to run through real quick, Okay. So, like for
some reason I was thinking, well, early on, I was like,
well this, I don't know if this could be a
planned event, Okay, because if somebody was planning on killing
I'm specifically somebody from the area, from the island, a resident, whatever, kids, whatever,
So you couldn't like plan something like this necessarily because
(42:18):
how would you know that maybe she was going out
on her own, Because if there were two of them,
I don't know if I would want to try and
make this this this this move right, But how would
you know that maybe that she was going to be
solo on this particular venture that she that and and
maybe you had the opportunity, or maybe they came into
like a conflict with some kids.
Speaker 4 (42:36):
You know, by the lighthouse or whatever.
Speaker 5 (42:38):
Right, But since you brought up this ex boyfriend, it's
kind of made me think that he they've talked several
times that day, there's been I guess he's got obsessive tendencies.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
And now that that was a previous one. The more
recent one did not have.
Speaker 4 (42:53):
The obsessive Oh, this is a separate ex, a separate ex.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
So you had William who was obsessive, and then you
have Scott. Okay, and Scott was the one that she
was more frequently talking to recently.
Speaker 5 (43:05):
Interesting, but I still wonder if the previous one, who
does is more obsessive, had contact with her enough to
know where she worked or had access to the island
or something.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
And he was an active officer in another city but
in the area, you know.
Speaker 5 (43:22):
Yeah, So I could probably figure it out, but I
don't know right right now, I'm leaning towards maybe this
wasn't some a local. This wasn't a local that somebody
knew that she was gonna be by herself or I
don't know, but I don't know how somebody.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
But she did call in. You know that I show
you know, I got three you know, there's three people
I'm about to address. Oh, okay, hear that, Yeah, and
you hear you even hear her confronting them. But hey,
there's no need for a gun. Put the gun down, right,
So there was somebody there?
Speaker 2 (43:54):
How about this? There were drug deals that she said
were by the lighthouse, right, And I believe this is
a is a suicide as much as you know, I
believe in our government being trustworthy. You know. It's just
like if you remember Vince Foster in the Whitewater scandal,
he was topped twice in the back of the skull
(44:17):
and they called that the official reporters, that's a suicide
because apparently the first shot wasn't enough. He wasn't happy
with it, so hitting himself again, kiss my ass. Right situations,
And I think that she did come upon something and
(44:37):
possibly what happened was she gets out of the car,
approaches them, you know, within shot where they able to
hear it, and they pull a gun on her and
she's like, hey, no need for a gun. They've got
her under the gun one of the other guys. She's
way for thin and tiny.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
She's just laughing in the green.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
Oh okay. So they pull her gun out of the holster.
One of the threes behind her, boom takes her out.
That explosion of blood goes on this person's hand because
when you hit that close, it's there's a lot of
blood up through here. This white head wounds are always
(45:18):
so difficult to deal with because there's so much blood
flow they look ten times worse than they actually are.
So caps are boom, blood goes all over the hand.
For whatever reason, you know, puts the hand on the truck.
They position the body after dragging it away from the
truck for whatever reason, I don't know, and they're like, oh,
this has got to look for like a suicide. Well,
(45:40):
tuck the gun underneath her, because you know that makes sense,
right right.
Speaker 5 (45:47):
I wonder what this particular kind of wound like if
if this was like an instant fatality, or if if
there was any possibility that she had any motor function
host gunshot. I would assume just being shot in the
head that it's like almost just like instant, like bah drop.
Speaker 4 (46:06):
Right.
Speaker 5 (46:07):
So the fact that there's any distance between any kind
of blood streaks or any evidence of her moving would
have to be somebody else moving.
Speaker 4 (46:18):
Her and not under her own power. I can only assume.
Speaker 1 (46:22):
But I don't know. So there's there's a good no, no, no,
never mind. There's another aspect of this that kind of
is even more interesting to me is that they're ruling
it a suicide. Uh. There's something called so an officer's
death benefits, So the family is like, okay, well, if
(46:43):
you're going to do this, we want her death benefits
if an officer an on If an on duty officer
commits suicide, the family does not get the death benefits.
Speaker 5 (46:53):
It's just like a like a like a mercy killings.
It's like a doctor Kavorkian thing here. This is like
a setup, a setup suicide and arranged suicide.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
So that's what I'm wondering. But the officer's death of it,
if it's suicide, they don't get any of the records nothing.
So in October of two thousand and three, the bus
present a case to North Carolina Industrial Commission. The family
brings in a clinical psychologists who says that based on
her recent activity prior to her death, they don't see
(47:24):
a reason why she would have been in the suicidal mind.
They also said that the three people they also brought
in three people similar size of ds to attempt to
reenact a suicide shot to the back of the head,
and all of them struggled and could not accurately do
it in the position. Shocking, I know, right. They also
(47:48):
argued that there was no apparent danger to officers at
the zone to be declared to hot zone, especially because
Keith had already searched the area and then found her,
approached her, attempted to get a pulls back to the car,
and then decided, oh wait, you know, maybe they're still here.
They also argued that there was lost of valuable evidence
(48:10):
from removing the body and the scene, and the opposition
said that the blood was probably deseed anyways, so we
didn't think we needed to attest it. They never found
out whose handprint it was on the truck, and then
the final answer still is that her death was ruled undetermined,
but the family did get the death benefits, and that
(48:33):
does mean that they could not burn or get rid
of the evidence. They had to keep it and give
to them.
Speaker 5 (48:39):
Okay, So if I don't really know how this works
as far as the law goes, but if a death
has ruled a suicide versus a homicide, is there any
difference in how they collect evidence or store evidence or
anything like that, or if it's like it is a suicide,
(49:01):
that it's like, well that's it, folks go home, right
whether or not, I mean, it's okay, So this is
a stupid comparison, But you know how like in the NFL,
they change the rules, like if it's a close call,
you go ahead and call it a touchdown because it's
a reviewable play, right, go ahead and call a touchdown.
We can go look at it again. If they don't
rule the touchdown, well, oh you can challenge it or whatever.
(49:23):
But I feel like you would almost be like, hey,
this is pretty suspicious. Let's go ahead and call it
a home's homicide so that we can keep looking at
this a little bit further, rather than like washing your
hands clean of it.
Speaker 4 (49:35):
R Does that makes sense?
Speaker 1 (49:36):
Yes? And I'm not really sure what the stipulations are
on it.
Speaker 2 (49:41):
But it's very litter of the law. Like you have
a death and you have a crime scene. First of all,
you have to courton off the area.
Speaker 1 (49:52):
Right.
Speaker 4 (49:52):
Did you impound the truck at least you can get
that out of the area.
Speaker 2 (49:55):
Yes, And I mean remember we said bag the hands
and all that other stuff. You would of course do
all of those things, especially with being an officer involved shooting.
You know, you don't, like you said, you don't suicide.
We're good. That's not at all what you're supposed to
do procedurally. There's so many things that they did not
do in this This scenario, suicide should cut her own
(50:24):
head off absolutely with the gun.
Speaker 1 (50:27):
I've seen it a hundred times.
Speaker 4 (50:30):
I had a.
Speaker 2 (50:31):
Dollar for every time.
Speaker 1 (50:35):
What what do you guys think happened? Like, what do
you guys like, what's your final thoughts on this?
Speaker 4 (50:43):
Oh? Shoot man, we're wrapping up here. Okay, Well that's
the last of the information.
Speaker 1 (50:48):
I mean, if you okay some of it first, we
can do that.
Speaker 5 (50:54):
I I still am almost kind of leaning back towards
like how we were talking earlier about you know, this
a high profile person or person's kid who they were
fucking around or smoking pot or just hanging out and
doing things that they weren't supposed to do. You know,
they are of an very affluent area, affluent family, and uh,
(51:17):
you know, this lady confronted her and somebody was off
taking a piss the other direction and came up and
was and maybe they were just trying to fuck with
her at first, but you know, but that's a that's
a pretty that's a pretty good shot at close range
if they took her down. So I feel like maybe
there was some intent. This lady's been getting on their nerves.
(51:38):
She's hassling them all the time, and then it's oh shit,
what do we do? I just still there's like in
the evening of there's like almost zero attempt to cover
their tracks except for once everybody gets involved, and once
everybody gets involved, then the whole thing goes away.
Speaker 1 (51:59):
Well, and I'm thinking, Okay, so she sees people with
a gun, she calls it in, so she's near her
vehicle most likely, I'm guessing if there's somebody with a gun,
I know most officers stay near their vehicle. Yeah. Uh,
so somebody comes up and shoots her in the back
of the head. I mean, does she go, oh man
and grab the back of her head and then stumbles,
maybe grabs her truck and maybe she does stumble over
(52:23):
to that area then fall down and that's where she
ends up dying. But I don't think that she would
have done it to herself and done all of that
tracking with the gun still in her hand to fall
down where she did, and the bullet shell casing was
in a fence in an whole other area, not even
(52:43):
by the truck. So it just it doesn't make sense
that she would have done it, like in my mind,
And I'm thinking, like kind of like what you're saying,
they're smoking pot they were selling to somebody and she
shows up and she's like, well, fuck this bitch, we
all hate her anyway, right boom, and then they're like,
mommy and daddy'll take care of it. Yeah. So that's
(53:06):
that's where I'm at with the scenario, because you know,
if it's a local fire chief and everybody knows them
and they're like, hey, here's here's one hundred grand, just
just take care, right.
Speaker 4 (53:17):
But also I can only imagine there would have been
some kind of altercation because I mean I wouldn't imagine
that somebody would have really just snatched this gun away
from her. If she already saw that somebody was armed,
I feel like she would have already had control of
her own firearm. Somebody would have had to take it
from her and not snatched out of the holster.
Speaker 1 (53:38):
Right.
Speaker 5 (53:38):
And then the fact that the gun is totally clean.
I mean, you're not going to have a totally clean
gun if there's an altercation like that where somebody ripped
her gun out of her hands or wrestled her to
the ground, or I would also want if there's any
other wounds like she had, like scraped knees, a bumped head,
you know any kind of defensive marks.
Speaker 4 (53:56):
Any who knows man's sketch.
Speaker 1 (54:03):
Divine says, I think she ruffled a few too many
feathers in her department in the community, by the sounds
of things, they didn't investigate that correctly, and in order
to appease the locals, her chief says, oh, you're not
allowed to go out alone. So he's clearly got some
sort of connection with people on the island. If he's
doing that too, people are going above her.
Speaker 2 (54:26):
Gruy. I have a different theory on this now it.
Speaker 1 (54:30):
I love it. It's I think I was gonna say
it's a gypsy, gypsy roses mom gypsy.
Speaker 2 (54:36):
Hell. Yeah, I think this was a setup. I think
this was an ambush, and I'll tell you why. I
think what happened was she goes out by herself when
she's never supposed to do. So there's the first red flag, right,
and somehow this guy was left behind and he was like, oh,
(54:59):
I doing this or whatever the fuck it was. So
she's out and about and she's already keyed into the
lighthouse being a problem, and see some guys out there.
Her truck was still running, so she stops the truck opens,
the door, gets out, somebody comes from out behind. And
(55:25):
this is where I'm calling bullshit on the fact that
it was her gun. I think they lied. I don't
think it was her gun that was used. I think
because standard issue. Now I don't know about that particular,
but standard issue is the nine millimeter, Okay for most
police departments, all right, and folks look it up. But
(55:48):
I'm telling you, and if you put a nine mil
to the back of somebody's head, there is a high
probability that it's going to out the front. But that
did not happen. There were no exit wounds. And what
I'm thinking is somebody came up from behind her with
(56:09):
a smaller caliber thing. So she parks, gets out, pops
her in the back of the head. And I have
heard of cases where people been shot in the head
of a smaller caliber weapon and they are still kind
of dazed enough, but they can move around for like
a bit, and then they collapse. She reaches back, touches
(56:30):
the back of her head, stumbles her. That's where the
bloody palm print is on the truck. Stumbles forward, falls down,
dragging herself, stops the dummy or one of the dummies
picks up her gun and I bet you one of
(56:51):
the guys said, stupid, your handprints on your fingerprints are
on the gun. They clean the son of a bitch
and then a panic stuff it under her body. That's
why it's on this side, and then they beat feet
out of there. I think Divine was right. I think
she ruffled some feathers and the people that are complicit
go all the way from the community to the office,
(57:12):
you know, like the sheriff and everybody else. I think
at some level everybody's known this, from her partner to
the sheriff to the people on the island. I think
this thing they wanted her gone happened.
Speaker 1 (57:27):
Yeah. I think that's a pretty accurate answer.
Speaker 4 (57:34):
Well, I'm this is.
Speaker 1 (57:44):
This is what sucks though. Man. It's like the fact
that like it doesn't matter if you got money and
you know the right people, you can hide anything.
Speaker 4 (57:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (57:55):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 4 (57:55):
It's such an isolated area too.
Speaker 1 (57:57):
It's like, yeah, so the and the ferry ride was
about seven minutes from the mainland, so you know, it's
not like it was a far far drive. Like I said,
it's like a peninsula off of North Carolina and a
bunch of like swampy land. It was a couple of
little beaches but no roads, and then at the very
edge of the ensilas it's like tiny little town. So yeah,
(58:20):
I mean the easiest way to get to them back
is is their boat. So yeah, that's what we got tonight, guys.
That's what we had for this episode. I think it
was a lot of fun, a lot a lot of
jumping around, and I think it's definitely like an inside job.
Speaker 4 (58:37):
God, I wish I had a little bit more information.
It's just that's why I do things like this.
Speaker 1 (58:43):
People dig in and not only do I want you
to dig in that way. You guys know, I'm not lying.
Speaker 2 (58:51):
It's great every time, man, this is it's great. It's
just it's frustrating because like anybody that's listened to this
can smell the bullshit right off they get. You know,
it's one of those questions of you know, would your
government do this? Absolutely they would at the top levels,
(59:11):
all the way down to the lowest levels. And I'm
telling you, I used to be the managing editor of
a newspaper in a county in Indiana, and I saw
more corruption in that little shitburg of a town in
county than I've ever watched on Law and Order. I'm
talking about stealing drugs from ambulances, taking fish fry donations,
and going up to Chicago on a party bus, you know,
(59:33):
with the funds from the fundraisers, attempted murders, all kinds
of shit, like, all kinds of stuff, and that was
just at a county level with volunteer departments fire em
I mean, guys, are you kidding me?
Speaker 1 (59:55):
All right, well, I want to give everybody a thank
you both you guys, Sean and Thomas for being on tonight. Thomas,
this is very last minute for you, so thank you.
Speaker 4 (01:00:04):
Oh yeah, glad to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:00:05):
Yeah. These are of all the shows I do, this
is like second of my top two. Stardom will always
be my number one only because it gets the most
of you, is out of all my shows. Yeah, but
this is climbing quickly.
Speaker 4 (01:00:24):
Okay, Well I was happy to see people interacting too.
Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:00:27):
I appreciate everybody tuning in.
Speaker 1 (01:00:29):
Yeah exactly. We've got four people watching right now, well
on here, and then I've got like six people on
TikTok watching right.
Speaker 2 (01:00:35):
Now, so high tens of people.
Speaker 1 (01:00:38):
High tens and tons of people. We appreciate you guys,
and we appreciate the guests as well. Thomas Man, we'll
have you back on again. Thank you. Our other co host, Evolution,
could not make it tonight, but it happens, so yeah.
Until next time, everybody will see around
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Law & Order: Criminal Justice System - Season 1 & Season 2
Season Two Out Now! Law & Order: Criminal Justice System tells the real stories behind the landmark cases that have shaped how the most dangerous and influential criminals in America are prosecuted. In its second season, the series tackles the threat of terrorism in the United States. From the rise of extremist political groups in the 60s to domestic lone wolves in the modern day, we explore how organizations like the FBI and Joint Terrorism Take Force have evolved to fight back against a multitude of terrorist threats.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com