Edward and Katie Gingerich

What happens when you bring 2 strong religions and a paranoid schizophrenic together? If you don't know the answer it is Edward Gingerich. Tune in as we dive into the struggles and confusion leading up to the murder of Katie Gingerich.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
What's happening everybody? Welcome back to JG's lounge. You know,
I'm getting better at these like intro buttons here. I'm
not as gapped out anymore, So that's that feels good.
Welcome back to another episode of Senda Eye Sockets with
the same hosts as usual, which is nice because occasionally
we got one of you guys missing. But it's nice
when all three of us can come together. Evolution, Man,

(00:25):
how you doing.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
I'm doing pretty good, man. I had a chance to
get some rest and relaxation, so I'll probably be up
pretty late tonight, so I'm ready.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
To go right on. Sean, he was kind of filling
us in on some events that of a goal on lately. Man,
why don't you kind of do a little get it
out of your system before we get it?

Speaker 3 (00:49):
Where would you like me to start in this dystopian,
apocalyptic orwellian nightmare that we're living in. Do you want
to start with the fraudulent elections or do you want
to start with the five hundred move that we've got
and signs in the heavens and wars and everything else
and all of this stuff that's going and it all
happens to be going on in November, in October October. Sorry,

(01:11):
it's I'm so out of my mind with everything. And
then I'm getting notifications on my phone from I grew
up in Deer Creek, Indiana, which all of a sudden
is a hotbed of UFO activity because there was an
alien swarm apparently a couple of nights ago where they
just scads of UFOs floating around the area. And it's

(01:33):
it's always been weird for the UFO shit down there.
Don't get me wrong, I saw plenty of stuff growing up,
but I mean it was just like the cameras panning
across the sky and they're just everywhere, and you're either
just look, it's either Project Bluebeam or everybody is coming
to the arena for you know, the best seats for

(01:55):
all the shit that's about to go down, right, I know.
Not to mention, not to mention the fact that James
web Telescope apparently has seen a Borg type ship. All right,
if you know anything about Star Wars Star Trek, a
Boorg type ship hurtling towards the planet, all right, there's

(02:15):
that or the armada that it is also seen of aliens.
And since the government's already admitted, Oh yeah, UFOs exist.
What kind of fuckery? I mean, it just volcanoes, volcanoes
in California sliding off into the ocean. Finally, we were waiting.
Now it's happening. I mean, where do you want to start.

(02:39):
I'm just waiting for an abyss to crack open and
all of a sudden just demons and ship fought, you know,
flying out, because then I could look at it with
some warmth in my heart, going, Okay, you know, finally
the thing is. It's happening as it's supposed to.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
It's finally here. You know, since they released that whole thing.
I think it's them releasing that aliens were real, didn't
do anything. I mean, if a UFO popped up in
front of me, I'd still be terrified.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
My My biggest belief though, is that I feel like
if they wanted to take over, they already would have.
I mean, I can see them annihilating the planet, just
get rid of it. But I feel like I know
if they wanted to just get really the human race,
that we already would have been done.

Speaker 2 (03:32):
They're probably like, well would why don't we even want
to try? They're doing it themselves.

Speaker 3 (03:36):
Right, Oh, dude, I guarantee you. And I've heard this
from other comics, but I've said this for years too,
that if spaceships fly by and they lock their doors,
all right, we are we are the Detroit of the
Solar system. They want to make sure GS is working

(03:57):
because we are a bad neighborhood right.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
Where the play that does the drive buys.

Speaker 3 (04:05):
Fucking seriously, dude, But there is a theory. There is
a theory that there is a lot of calamity and
catastrophe that's a common and these ships that are coming
are coming down to take away like and this this
is just the theory that I've heard, but coming to

(04:25):
take away the well meaning folks of the world and
get us away from the reptilians everything else. And I'm
talking just like this kind of an amalgamation of a
lot of different theories. But some are saying like that
was what you know was mistakenly called a rapture, Like
they knew this was going to happen. And the reason
every fucking thing is happening now, Biolabs catching on fire,

(04:51):
trains derailing in Egypt, you know, wars over in Lebanon,
bombs being dropped between Israel. I ran and I ran
and everybody else. And that's all happening right fucking now
in a third assassination attempt on President Trump, just so
everybody knows. To catch you up on the tope board,

(05:12):
you know, I it's just like a it's it's like
that meme that you see with the balding guy standing
in front of that board that has all the things
listed on it, and he was like, you had alien
armada headed towards uh, towards the earth in October? Who
had it?

Speaker 1 (05:28):
I mean, there's you know, there's you just you know
what I just thought of it was, you know, the
movies were like the plants are done, and like all
the rich and wealthy are going to this pod to escape, Yes,
which I know I've seen more than one movie. I
feel like that's wouldn't happen. I think, like you said,
aliens are just come and get them and take them,

(05:50):
like just over time, Like we wouldn't even know that
there was a thing. They would already just be getting taken, right.

Speaker 3 (05:56):
But it would be the richer, the wealthy, or would
it be like the me who are like the decent people.
I mean, I don't know, dude, don't. I don't know anymore.
I'm so blown away by everything just all happening, you know,
and it's it's weird. I have to ask you, guys.
I know we're going far afield from the topic.

Speaker 1 (06:15):
You're good, but yeah, we're at seven minutes. We'll ride
this till ten minutes and then we're just gonna cut
it off.

Speaker 3 (06:20):
Okay, okay, okay, But do you feel like so many
people I have heard, they just feel like they're existing
right now because everybody feels like something's coming the you know,
there's like a kind of a depression going and I'm
not talking just like the emotional depressant depression. Like literally,

(06:42):
we are in what's called a silent depression, like our
depression of the nineteen twenties and thirties. We're going through
it again. But we are actually, on average, we hold
less wealth than our ancestors did during that time. It
is a nightmare as far as going Yeah, dude, back then,

(07:02):
the average salary, if it was compared to the day,
they were about eighty nine to ninety eight thousand per
year respectively. We are at fifty on average.

Speaker 1 (07:12):
Except we're a lower middle class family to survive today
on average should make about one hundred and seventy K
and I don't know anybody that makes that much.

Speaker 3 (07:22):
Wow, police police with a puh dude, Like, I'm sorry, man,
but we are in a nightmare landscape with all this
stuff going on. But it just feels like, I don't know.
I wake up and it's like I'm just flowing through
everything and I'm doing all kinds of stuff. Man, I'm

(07:44):
on shows, I'm traveling around the country, I'm doing all
this stuff, but it doesn't feel like anything's real anymore.
There's no anchor to reality. We're just wake up. Stuff happens,
we go to bed, and it's just like we're waiting
for the matrix to crack open. I don't know, man, Like,
how have you guys been feeling.

Speaker 1 (08:04):
Go ahead of illusions?

Speaker 2 (08:07):
You know when you when you make it when you
stated like that. Uh, it's definitely a pattern. Uh, that's
that's going on. And there are days that I'm like,
let me go out and do something, you know, get
out the house and do something, and then I'm like,
you know what, I'll just go back home, right, you
know what I mean. It's really, uh, the excitement that

(08:30):
I would look for uh before when I was younger.
I'm like, I've been there and done that, you know
what I mean, unless it's something way different, like you know,
visiting another country or something. It's like, you know, how
many times can you go to an amusement park right,
uh and and see the same stuff and stay in

(08:50):
line and deal with the complaints of the heat and
the waiting and you know what I'm saying. So I
get it, you know, I definitely understand what you're saying.
And so I'm kind of it's not a pause, but
it's a place where I'm like, you know, when's the
new stuff going to occur?

Speaker 3 (09:09):
Right?

Speaker 2 (09:10):
Right?

Speaker 1 (09:12):
I think everything is bleeding together like days, weeks. I
feel like it just bleeds together anymore like hours of
the day. I feel like you lose track of it
at times because of how repetitive it is almost And
it's not even like a highs and lows each day.

(09:33):
It's just more of like a consistent repetitiveness. And that's
I mean, that's the best way I can explain it.
And it does, it does. It feels it feels like
you're almost on a track and you have no control
where it's going.

Speaker 3 (09:47):
It's just going yeah, yeah, and we just keep getting
ship pitch status like it's it's just normal. It's just like, however,
many months ago they came out with the oh, we
have this new thing called Cisco depideliaisms where you just
start seeing demon faces folks. No, no, no, it's it's

(10:07):
a thing. It's a thing now. And you know the
I mean, I think at large the population is starting
to wake up. But at the same time, it's just
like you're just going to just do these You're just
putting shit out there. Yeah, there's aliens, You're going to
start seeing demons, second moon, like, what the like? This
is like something out of a fucking movie. We are

(10:31):
living in a movie, yep. And how we are not
collectively just looking around at everybody going what the fuck?
And yet somehow the Kardashians are still in the news.
But what are we even.

Speaker 1 (10:46):
All right, Okay, all right, let's get on topic. Okay, yeah,
I did well, you clearly wanted to discuss it. I'm
just trying to be afraid to let you vent. So
is tuned in. That is not the topic of today's show,
just so somebody's aware.

Speaker 2 (11:06):
But but I have a feeling there will be more
to follow in the future, so stay tuned.

Speaker 1 (11:10):
Yes, that's actually just a teaser to the episode. Hopefully, Sean,
you won't be alone on that one. Actually, me and
him were talking earlier about doing one this week with
you since he's on vacation and I ain't working.

Speaker 3 (11:27):
So sweet.

Speaker 1 (11:30):
So, how familiar are you guys with Amish way of life?

Speaker 2 (11:36):
They are like more natural or they do everything themselves
pretty much, and uh kind of standoff is to the
public unless they have to, you know, come to the
city for something or whatever. But for the most part,
they exist in their own setups.

Speaker 1 (11:59):
Either laughing because that was a very basic response.

Speaker 3 (12:06):
Unlocked the memory. Well, okay, for first of all, I'm
in the thick of Amish country around here, and I
am well acquainted with like the surface level stuff and
then the behind the scenes crap that you know, you
know is I was in the ms and things. But
I just remember when I was a younger guy and
had less control over my emotions. I was in a

(12:28):
payless shoe store, right, and these Almish folks came in
and they were shoe shopping with us, and and I
was just irritated. All of a sudden you know, because
they get all that they don't have to pay taxes
and all this other crap. And I was just I
pulled some shoes off and it just I don't know,

(12:49):
but I looked over at them and I just yelled
across the store. You can't have it both ways, like
a psycho.

Speaker 2 (13:02):
Oh uh uh.

Speaker 1 (13:06):
Well, to kind of add evolution a little bit, what
I have read about the Amish way of life is
they're more simplest, hard working, gets you into heaven kind
of vibe like you're you're definitely supposed to be almost
kind of shameful, Like the way they dress and stuff

(13:26):
is almost meant to to u separate them from the
modern world. And that's kind of the base gist of
the Amish. And obviously it kind of breaks into like
Minnonights and and and Anabaptists and.

Speaker 3 (13:41):
Yeah, well and there's there's a lot of other stuff too,
guys like you're you're looking at like, you know, even
their homes are plain white, you know, there's a reason,
like their hats are black, and they only have the beards,
you know, and there's clean shaven. It's it's all very
much rife with symbolism, and yeah, you know all of

(14:04):
that stuff, and they have like rules where they can
separate things out where it's like, Okay, our home and
everything else is pure, but our barn, you know, that's different.
They can have electricity or in their barns because their
barns is barns are where you know, they have their
they do their work. You know, there're a lot of
their plumbers, carpenters, they do all kinds of stuff right,

(14:27):
And you know, I know from personal experience this isn't
just conjecture that in their barns, that whole Amish mafia
thing where you know they are heavy into drugs, they
find massive porn stashes out in their barns. All of
that stuff one hundred percent true.

Speaker 1 (14:48):
I believe it. I mean, I remember watching that show.
It was years after it was aired, but I remember
watching it, and I don't know who was I've had
several people tell me that's all real stuff that actually
does happen.

Speaker 3 (15:03):
Yeah, they're they're interesting, and but the thing that makes
the Amish really insufferable in my eyes is that women
are impossibly hot and a young man and it's like, say,
you love taco salads and then somebody brings to you
in front of your face, the most beautiful taco salad

(15:24):
you've ever seen in your life, and you're like, I
want to eat that fucking taco salad. Like, oh no, no,
this taco salad belongs to God.

Speaker 1 (15:36):
Okay, uh, that's that's a good way to explain that.
I guess. All right, So this is Edward Jingdric or Gingric.
I'm not sure he's wearing a white hat, Sean, I'm
not sure why I didn't know that about the hats.

Speaker 3 (15:53):
That's he was a white hat. That's different.

Speaker 1 (15:56):
He was born in nineteen sixty six in Norwich, Ontario, Canada.
He was born to parents Danny and Mary jan Rick,
and he grew up known as a sort of a
rowdy kid, which is actually kind of shunned upon from
the adults. You know, he liked to and just brace yourself.

(16:17):
He liked to have fun as a kid, which is
mind boggling why a kid would want to have fun.
But that's actually kind of why the community sort of
took that aspect with him, that they were kind of
offset by him growing up because of how rowdy he was,
and even the teachers would kind of complain to his
parents about how he acted, so in nineteen eighty three,

(16:41):
his parents decided to pack up and leave with their
eight children. They have eight sons and daughters from Canada
to Crawford County, Pennsylvania due to dairy restrictions in Canada,
so they moved it.

Speaker 3 (16:58):
They were elective tolerant.

Speaker 1 (17:03):
No, no, I don't think that they were latose intolerant,
but I'm not sure what the restrictions were either. But
by June of nineteen eighty five, the settlement had grown
to thirteen families in a population. In ninety three, Ed's
father had built a diesel powered saw mill, and Ed
was eager to learn the mechanics. One big thing about

(17:23):
the Amish or they try to stay away from, like
Sean said, electricity at technology. So they'll do like bottled
gas and diesel fueled machinery to run their stuff. I
don't know where the limitation is on how they determine
those things, but I did kind of learn that. So

(17:45):
Ed starts working at the saw mill, which this is
kind of how they start making their money. You know,
they got their crops and their farming, but they're also
building woodwork and selling that to the community. They're taking
the shavings and selling them for horse feet bedding and
stuff like that. So they're making money off of the sawmill.
Ed be friends a local Englishman, which is also shunned

(18:06):
upon an Amish community. A big thing for them is
to you separate themselves. You can sell to them, but
don't befriend them. You know, That's it's kind of a
something you just don't do. And the Amish also refer
to most Americans as Englishmen. I don't know again why
they do that. Have you ever heard of that phrase

(18:26):
from the Amish?

Speaker 3 (18:29):
Oh yeah, yeah, we we are we are sinners, we
are okay, what is the word? It's oh my god?
And Christian circles refer that refers to like the outside world.

(18:49):
There's a that's a term for my brain. I'm sorry, we've.

Speaker 1 (18:54):
Been a secular anything that's none.

Speaker 3 (18:59):
Yeah, it's there. There's terminology they use for us. The
English is is. The thing is, they're not look, man,
they're not all bad folks, but they are very cultish.
They are very you know, stand offish. There. If you
walk into like a you know, dressed like I am
right now, and I walked into a group of Vomish folks,

(19:21):
it's not like they'd hiss at me. But you know
it's like that moment you walk into the saloon you're
not supposed to be in and the music stops, and
you know every dark hat would turn and look at you,
like where you know, where are thout supposed to be going?
Englishmen like it's it's very much like that, and they
there folks, unless it's rum Springer, their folks do not

(19:44):
intermingle with our folks. And that when I tell you,
like I had a locker mate. Her name was Gina,
and they weren't full Amish, they were just German Baptists,
but still same rules apply. There was no like you
just didn't.

Speaker 1 (20:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:02):
So during his time working at the saw mill, he
makes friends with this Richard Zimmerman. He's just one of
the farmers that are kind of near the property and
they're selling to him, and Ed even gets to a
point where he starts faking going to church, you know,
faking being sick so you can avoid going to church
and go hang out of the Zimmerman's property. So him
and Dick Zimmerman's over there hanging out having a root

(20:24):
beer and watching TV and doing all those sinful things
that that they're not supposed to be doing. Uh, while
his community is in church and they're they're catching on
to it. His community is aware that he's faking. You know,
they're not they're not. They're not getting too aggressive with
him because he's actually doing really good in the in
the saw mill. He's bringing a lot of money. You know,

(20:47):
he's selling the product. But there he is selling, you know,
he's hanging out with them, so he's already kind of
getting looked at, like, hey, man, watch you need to
watch yourself. He confines in Richard over time that he
doesn't really understand that I'm life. He doesn't understand why
they want to do things a hard way. He even
mentions leaving the homaged Faith and Fall of nineteen eighty five,

(21:09):
Ed meets Katie Settler, it says meets, but I'm going
to guess they kind of knew each other, but they
basically formally became a couple at this time. And she's
twenty one, she's niece of the bishop. Bishop is kind
of the head elder of the congregation at least that's

(21:29):
kind of how I read this during the research. So
he's the uncle of Katie. They start dating in the
fall of eighty five, and they're on and off for
about a year, and they start feeling pressure from the community.
You know, Katie's getting older. She's one of the oldest
siblings out of fifteen. While the rest of them are
getting married and having kids. She's you know, she's getting old.

(21:51):
I mean, man, she's about about to retire and die off. Man,
she's twenty one. I don't know how many more years
she has, you know, children.

Speaker 3 (22:04):
Yeah, they're they're not shy about kicking out the brood.

Speaker 1 (22:08):
Right well, and that's how how do you think they
build a community? You know, each one of them are
knocking out ten to fifteen kids each. That is true, though,
that is true, and the fact that she was so
she was starting to kind of feel pressure because she
was yelledest and the rest of the siblings are get
married and starting to have kids. Ed on the other hand,

(22:30):
he's kind of in this torn idea of Hey, I
want to leave the congregation, but you know, I also
I like Katie. I don't know that I want to
marry her, but I'm also getting pressure that I need
to get married and I need to settle down. And
so he decides to go that route, and him and
Katie get married December second, nineteen eighty six. Are we

(22:53):
pretty much caught up at the moment, all right, I'm
kind of I got six pages to go through. So
if there's something that you guys point out to stop me,
if I got something I want to talk about more,
I'll stop. So in March of eighty seven, Ed's family
construct a one story house for Katie and Ed temporarily.
September twentieth, nineteen eighty seven, Katie gives birth to their
first child, Danny, named after his dad. Ed didn't care

(23:18):
for being a father and wouldn't spend very long or
he'd start spending longer hours at the mill and coming
home late, you know, sometimes almost midnight at night. And
Katie's starting to kind of feel worried, slightly worried about
Ed because of how distant he's becoming. But another thing
in the homage community is you do not you're not

(23:40):
allowed to really question your husband. I guess it's actually
kind of shunned upon to even really question your spouse,
which so she's got that in her mind, so she's
not really questioning him at first, but things continue to
kind of spiral out here By the summer of eighty eight,
Ed built a machine shop next to the He's very

(24:02):
technical savvy, very into electronics and mechanics, and so he
built this while maintaining the rules, which had a weird
name is like a knock or I don't even know
what it's called. But they have like a set of
rules that they have to be here too, and as
long as he abides by those rules, he can modernize

(24:23):
to an extent, you know. So he's got this mechanical parts,
you know, he's got this machine shop where you can
get mechanical parts, and he's buying motors to start fixing
them up, which is really starting to kind of quite
the Katie and the Bishop are now like really looking
at him like he's starting to dabble in some some

(24:43):
bad you know stuff here along with escaping church to
go hang out with the Englishman and you know, more
stuff outside the community. In August of eighty eight, Katy
talks to parents about Ed's conditions, about him being you
know and starting to lose weight. He starts talking about

(25:04):
having dizzy spells, so she she talks to the parents
after he tells her not to. So this is one
thing that she wasn't supposed to do, and they recommended
that they go see a medical doctor. And Katie is
very against this. I mean the going to see I

(25:25):
don't know, they had like people that they could go
to that were amish or like affiliated with the community
that didn't practice, you know, medical stuff like we do,
you know, and you're not You're not supposed to do it.
So she's against it. She said, no, he can't.

Speaker 2 (25:43):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (25:43):
So she makes an appointment for him to go see
doctor Merritt Terrell, who was a druglist doctor. This is
actually quite hilarious. They go to his office, which is
a one story house. The hallway is basically the reception desk.
Ed gets taken to a back room with doctor Treuell,

(26:04):
who sits him on a bench and has him right
on paper. He then takes this paper and runs it
through a machine which determines what his uh issues are,
you know, what is what's going on with him, which
is you know, absolutely hysterical that anybody would think that
this would work. So he runs a paper through machine

(26:27):
and goes, oh, hey, you know, you just you need
a good toe pulling, you know, we give you a
foot rub h pull your toes. Get you a bottle
of black strap molasses and send you on your way. So, yes,
let's let's let's stop here for a second.

Speaker 2 (26:43):
Which got oh go ahead, sah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna
cap it off.

Speaker 3 (26:50):
It's just the amount of quackery that this Homish doc
is shunning, you know, the English, and there they're met
and but here, I'm going to run your cursive through
a through a machine that's going to read it. And
it's like, oh, well, by the way, you dog your eyes,
you've got gone rhea. Wait what.

Speaker 1 (27:14):
That's basically what his method of, you know, figuring out
what their issues were.

Speaker 3 (27:20):
Yeah, and phrenology used to be a thing. By the
pumps on your.

Speaker 4 (27:23):
Head, I can tell thee here there is one thing
and before evolution, before I let you go, they are
only raised to learn up to the eighth grade.

Speaker 1 (27:33):
So by time they're fourteen, they're no longer in school.
And that's just eighth grade in the Amish school. That's
not you know, I mean, that's at the lower end
of our middle school level of you know, knowledge, and
that's what they're releasing to the world with.

Speaker 3 (27:49):
Yes, yeah, they're breathing generation after generation of nerdoners and
sending them out into the world. They're great, it would
work and everything else, But forget you remember what dumb
asses we were when we were in eighth grade? Are
you kidding me?

Speaker 1 (28:05):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (28:09):
Uh as as uh Chanaan was talking about the quacks.
I was thinking about an actual situation that I dealt with.
H It was a company doctor who prescribed advil for everything.
It didn't matter what was going on, they would prescribed
advil and send you back to work. I thought that

(28:31):
was extreme, But but this machine that reads penmanship, uh
is quite a few steps further extreme than that. Yeah,
I just I just think that that's absolutely ridiculous.

Speaker 3 (28:45):
Man, well evolution. I'm sorry to interrupt, but the machine
didn't have a quota from the bosses on high for
insurance down chopped off. You're so bad, Phil, I really
think I need to go to the art. No, I
think you need advil.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
I'm he's back there. He's pushing the paper through the
machine and he kind of popps behind it. She's abep beep.

Speaker 3 (29:11):
Man.

Speaker 2 (29:13):
Yeah, that that is.

Speaker 1 (29:17):
Oh look here, man said, you need a good toe
pulling right here.

Speaker 3 (29:22):
Everything is all that.

Speaker 2 (29:24):
That is a level of genius that I have yet
to experience.

Speaker 3 (29:30):
Well, if you guys have heard the term blowing smoke
up your ass, do you know where that's from?

Speaker 1 (29:36):
No, I'm guessing that was something they actually did.

Speaker 3 (29:40):
Yes, it is. It's again there's a whole uh branch
of antiquity, antique collection where it's like quackery and and
stuff like that. Where there was one where you would
have a bellows and you would pump cigarette or cigar
smoke through the look through a tube into people's ass,

(30:05):
like you would literally blow smoke into their ass, and
the it was thought that the doing this cured a
whole host of things, but it was complete bullshit. And
that's where the term blowing smoke up somebody's ass originated.

Speaker 1 (30:22):
Nice, that's good. I did look up. So black strap
molasses is used for things like PMS, anxiety. It's a
Mira's it's more for like it's more it's more for
physical things than anything.

Speaker 3 (30:40):
But is it is?

Speaker 1 (30:42):
It actually a good.

Speaker 3 (30:45):
Some pancakes.

Speaker 1 (30:51):
It's very high in calcium, potassium, and iron. While you
guys are cracking out, it is actually good for kind
of leveling out some of your if you were to
go get lab work done and your higher levels are
off and some of the others they would prescribe. I
mean tactically, this is something could prescribe it. It is
good for you. Basically, it's quadrupled. It's like quadrupled boiled sugar. Basically.

Speaker 3 (31:17):
There's so many things that are good that come from
nature that help. Like, what is it Mullen? Like Mullen,
it's a plane you can just pull off the side
of the road. Uh. You know, my wife made a
tincture out of it and made tea out of it,
and last time we had respiratory issues, we had Mullen
tea and we felt better. Like there's a lot of

(31:37):
wisdom that's out there that we can sit here and
laugh at, but like legit stuff like that does help.

Speaker 1 (31:44):
Yeah, it also helps a paranoid schizophrenia. Apparently black I'm
just joking. This guy just ends up becoming that. So
as we get going here. Over the next several months,
he has a few follow up appointments with doctor Trail
and they don't really notice much of a difference, which
I'm shocked. Apparently he's not drinking enough of that molasses.

(32:07):
Good old stiff feet ed over there. March twenty first
of nineteen eighty nine, Kidd he his birth of their
second boy, enon Ed didn't care at all. The community
talks about how he just cared less and less as
he had children, became more and more depressed and spending
more time in the shops.

Speaker 2 (32:28):
So yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:31):
December third, nineteen eighty nine, the sawmill burns down, which
gives ed a sense of purpose, and he partners with
the bishop and wants to redesign and rebuild the sawmill.
He's got all these modern ideas, which the bishop did question,
but he also knows that's really good at it, so
he's like, I'll allow you to do it as long

(32:52):
as you only use the Amish workers and you can't
make it too modern. Make sure you're following those rules.

Speaker 2 (32:59):
So he does.

Speaker 1 (33:00):
During the planning of the mill, kid he gets pregnant
again and gives birth to March thirteenth, nineteen ninety two,
a little girl Mary.

Speaker 2 (33:07):
Sometime.

Speaker 1 (33:10):
Yeah yeah. But after this, their sex life pretty much
goes out the window because he's too scared of having
more kids. He doesn't like being a father. He doesn't,
you know. He refuses to really spend time with them.
He's never home, and when he is, he's sleeping. So
in April of nineteen ninety, they begin to construction and

(33:31):
designs a diesel power conveyor belt to deliver logs through
a saw blade and automatically separates the dust, which impresses
the community and local englishman. Ed and Katie's problems continue
to grow. He's staying out late. He's having conversations with
her about modernizing and leaving the Allige community. And again
she's not really saying anything too much because she's not

(33:55):
supposed to, you know, she's got to kind of keep
her mouth shut in that community. In a modern day,
I think we would send him to see a psych
or a therapist, you know, something that you should do.
But she's kind of avoiding this because she's worried about
getting in trouble. Basically. So, August of nineteen ninety, evangelist
David Lindsay visits a sawmill and he's very impressed. He

(34:16):
gets a tour from Ed. Before he leaves, he asked
Ed if he can return to discuss the Lord and
Savior of Jesus Christ, which Ed agrees. Several days later,
David returns with his Bible and Ed sits in his
car while they discussed the Christian faith, which leads Ed,
which leaves Ed very confused. He's all about the evangelist,

(34:37):
is all about a loving God, when in the Amish
community it's almost you know, hard work, dedication, separate. Everybody
else is evil, very stern belief compared to this guy
over here, who basically thinks his purpose is to help
those in what he calls the bishop's cult to escape

(35:00):
and fine Jesus. So him and Ed start kind of
making this a regular thing, and this does not help
at at all. Over the next year, Ed splits time
between the sawmill and the machine shop on a regular basis.
September nineteen ninety one, Ed's father starts building a home
for Ed and Katie. Ed does not help, which really

(35:22):
upsets the community greatly because this is unheard of. They
all always help build their own homes. That's the year.
House completely was completed by November. Over the next few months,
Ed's health spirals downwards. He starts having dizzy spells, itchy skin, earaches,
back pain, rarely eating. March seventeenth of nineteen ninety two,

(35:44):
it's Katie's birthday, but Ed spends a whole day in
the machine shop working on a diesel engine, and he's
using a chemical solvent called gunk. The can has a
warning label saying that it needs to be significantly deluded,
but she did not do and he literally spends the
whole day till about four o'clock with the door shut
in the shop working on this engine with his chemical solvents.

(36:08):
I kind of put a little bit emphasis on here
because I think this could the ignorance of this could
play a lot into some of the conditions as well.
Anybody who knows anything about anything that's been concentrated, you know,
make sure you're diluting your stuff, especially when it comes

(36:29):
at chemicals. He comes home, goes straight to bed. He
complains to Katie about having his brain feeling like it's
on fire and his hands are swollen. He wakes up
the next morning and grabs a cup of coffee, complains
about having a headache, and he goes right back to
the shop and spends another seven hours working on the engine.
At this point, he has a pounding pain between his

(36:50):
eyes and he feels like his limbs aren't receiving blood.
Around dinner time, David shows up to purchase a saw
blade and comes downstairs and they both leave a Ed, Sorry,
Ed and Katy's home. Ed took David to see the
motor that he's been working on, and immediately, uh straight.
The odor just strikes David and he gives at a

(37:11):
hard time about the impop or ventilation, and they're in
the shop for a few hours before David leaves. Edward
turns home after the kids are in bed. Kitty asked
what's wrong. It says, he's dizzy and he's gonna go
to bed. I wanna take a little pause here, are
you guys pretty caught up on where we're at so far?

(37:31):
There's I'm about a page and a half in here.
So if there's any like questions, Like I said, feel
free and anybody who is watching, throw some comments in here.
If you've got questions, please throw them in What will
answer them? If I'm not looking, these guys can see
him as well. So the next morning Ed wakes up

(37:51):
and shakes Katie, saying that he just had a vision,
and he starts rambling about trying to kill an older
leader but not being able to conquer him. She asked
what leader. He says, Bishop Shutler, which is her uncle.
The devil wants my soul and is fighting Jesus for it.
So here's the point where things are crossing the line

(38:12):
and she she wants to start, you know, doing something
about it. Katie schedules an immediate pointment to go see
old doctor Topool that afternoon. He determines off of his
penmanship that he just needs a good shoulder rub, right

(38:33):
foot manipulation, and another jar of blackstrap molasses and sends
him on his way.

Speaker 3 (38:39):
He's doctor Nick from the Simpsons. What the hell I
get the eighth grade educations and things. Maybe that's why
he couldn't read the back of the bottle on the
gunk where it said, you know, this is a concentrate,
must dilute. He probably saw this, you know what, fuck it,
I'm just gonna use it. He didn't even wasn't even

(39:00):
able to read it. But this stuff with the doc
with a given the strap and the you know, the
toe pulling and everything else, there is a thing called
common sense. You know that something in their gut had
to tell them like a foot massage, and you know
what I mean, like yeah, you would think.

Speaker 1 (39:22):
Yeah, you think, all right, I'm sorry good, Yeah, no
he is, And actually he's I think he's probably the
one that I hate the most, only because I feel
like anybody who is a doctor, a legit doctor, should
have like seen the signs and been like, you know,

(39:44):
I'm not the right person for this. You need to
take him to actual hospital.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
What you got, Yeah, man, I'm thinking about all the
symptoms that he's expressing to his wife and she's not
saying or doing anything about it, you know, complaining about
you know, pain in between the eyes and not feeling
like blood is circulating to his limbs. You know, that's
some some pretty severe type of stuff.

Speaker 3 (40:12):
You know.

Speaker 2 (40:13):
So you know, him just wanting to go to bed,
and you know he may not wake up, you know,
depending on how bad it is.

Speaker 1 (40:20):
But well, and you think you think about their education
too though, I mean, and they're still restricted from the
modern world. So how much do they actually know? Now?
The doctor, on the other hand, should know enough considering
that he's got a degree.

Speaker 2 (40:33):
I'm thinking not so much, per okay.

Speaker 1 (40:39):
So that evening after they get back home, Ed tells
the congregation that he needs to leave the Amish community
and it was the only way for him to be saved.
The bishop angrily asked why he wants to join soldiers
of the devil, and that replies, why are my own
people against me? In March twenty third, nineteen ninety two,
Ed refuses to leave bed, spitting at the ceiling. Katy
tells that to stop, but he fuses, mumbling phrases like

(41:01):
what does it mean? What is it spelling? What is
it saying to me? Kay's very disturbed and summons the bishop.
The bishop says word to elders and Ed's family, who
all awake or show up, and Ed's mom recommends to
the doctor and or that they take him to go
see a doctor. The bishop responds, no way, he's possessed
by the devil. We need to pray.

Speaker 2 (41:22):
So they.

Speaker 1 (41:24):
They get in a circle so that they can pray
the demon out of a good old Ed here and around.
Let's see. Ed sits up and the prayer stops. Shortly
after helped, they help him to his feet, and they
take him to a cot where he quickly falls asleep.

(41:44):
After observing for several hours, Ed wakes up, falls to
the floor and begins to howl, crawling around in all fours.
And now at this point they decide, okay, we're going
to take take him to see a doctor.

Speaker 2 (41:55):
Wait a minute, hold up question. You mean to tell
me after everything has happened, all he had to do
was follow his knees and how and now they were
needed to take to the doctor. I mean, all their

(42:16):
faith and beliefs just went out to win.

Speaker 5 (42:18):
Okay, I think, but we cannot deal with werewolves, grable,
that's an Englishman problem.

Speaker 1 (42:31):
Well and and and as as bad as what he
does is, and I don't think that he should. I
think that his punishment should have been more severe than
it was. But as bad as it was, he gave
them all the signs, and he requested the help, and
they were clearly there, and instead they turned the other

(42:51):
cheek because their belief is like now, no, no, I
can't do it. So I picked this topic specifically because
of how torn he is between his buddy David and
then Lindsay over here and then his his Amish community,
and they're both pulling him in these different directions. He's

(43:11):
more leaning towards this evangelistic Christian way of life, but
he's scared because of what he's grown up in. And
you know, he's married now, he's got kids, So where
else can he go besides you know downward spiral? If
mentally he's just not he already has issues if he's
got these underlying issues and they're not helping this. First off,

(43:34):
this David Lindsay guy is just adding fuel to the
fire because he's constantly telling him you need to leave,
you know, you need to leave and confess to your
Lord and savior or you're going to hell basically is
what he's telling him. And then you've got the homorsed
community saying you should probably lay back on hanging out
with these guys because look what's happened to you basically.
So it's just he's got a whole lot happening and

(43:58):
that doesn't make sense.

Speaker 3 (44:00):
And go ahead, John, I'm just gonna toss the softball
out there, all right. So, yeah, he's being torn in multiple,
multiple directions. He's getting confirmation bias from this Lindsey person
that is basically telling him what he wants to hear,
like he wants to go anyway. What I think is happening.
I don't know what the Danu mall is here, like

(44:22):
if he ends up murdering everybody in the community, whatever
it is. But I have a feeling that something is
going on with that machine shop and sawmill and that
he's getting exposed to a shitload of chemicals and it
is tearing his brain apart, and it is creating the
the palette of symptoms. That is my guess.

Speaker 1 (44:44):
Actually, that's why I went into so much details on
that one specific thing, because what else was easy. You know,
what else is he doing where he's not reading the
instructions or he's just you know, right whatever. But yeah,
I I think that that has a huge, huge part
to do with all of this, because this is about
the time where it really starts just plumbing, all right.

Speaker 2 (45:10):
I will I will say he must be a very
talented individual with a specials set of skills because he's
doing all these things and the sawmill and the machine
shop that are just really impressing everybody. So he has
a talent, you know, But he also has a different
thought process, you know, saying it's like there's a better

(45:33):
way of doing things, but he knows that the people
in theonomist community aren't going to support that. So he's
already dealing with some mental issues in the beginning, you know,
before all the chemical imbalance and all that other stuff.

Speaker 1 (45:50):
So yeah, I agree. So doctor Craig Caldwell, he's well
known in the almost community for for treating some of
those paties. He comes to their home. While using the stoscope,
Ed rambles about the Bishop of Jesus. Katie hands the
doctor a jar molasses, asking if it would help. The
doctor says no and gives a a tranquilizer than leaves.

(46:16):
He's like, what do you mean it will work? Doctor Toples, lying.

Speaker 3 (46:24):
These have always worked in the past, Now the fuck
they haven't.

Speaker 2 (46:29):
Yeah, I just gave you.

Speaker 1 (46:31):
I just gave your husband a very high deals of
tranquilizer just to give him to go to sleep. That
ain't doing shit, right, Jesus. Okay, all right, let's keep going.
Let's keep going here. So he leaves and h Ed
goes asleep. March twenty fourth, nineteen ninety two starts the
same as the day before, with that lying in the

(46:53):
bed spinning at the ceiling. Katy sends Ed's brother to
call nine one one. Paramedics show up. Kay says he
is haveing a nervous breakdown and to be careful. It
smiles mockingly at Katie as he's being escorted out, which
she walks up and punches him in the face, knocking
his ass to the floor. Well yeah, had to help.

Speaker 3 (47:15):
Yes, it stands up, mocked my molasses fire the last time.

Speaker 1 (47:25):
This is just this is signs of obviously there's some
some sort of physical abuse happening here for her to
just walk up the face since.

Speaker 3 (47:34):
It seems I mean, I get it, she's frustrated. This
is all building up. But that is like a like
a ten to a two lady like he's obviously in distress.

Speaker 1 (47:43):
And he goes and just like squares, Yeah, that's great,
it gets better. Let's let's keep going here. I got
three half pages to go unless you got something, got anything,
get keep Ed stands up and he's assisted onto a

(48:04):
cot and strapped down at the hospital, and it initially
seems sane, and the doctor's actually questioned Katie on how
honest she's being about his symptoms. The doctor briefly leaves
the room when Ed starts yelling at Katie, asking why
she's trying to kill him. He then growls and insists
that Katie is sleeping with his brother. Katie leaves the
room to grab the doctor as soon as he comes.

(48:25):
As they come back, and is lying back in the bed,
spitting at the ceiling and talking to himself. Ed's admitted
to the psych ward. March twenty sixth, David makes a
visit after hearing word that he was in the psych ward,
and he blames the chemical solvent. You know's I knew it.
You know, I knew something was up. Two weeks later,
as released with medication and and follow up appointments. By

(48:48):
April twenty eighth, It stops taking the prescriptions because he
doesn't like the zombie feeling, and Katie agrees. She hates
that they're using medicine in general, and she was totally
for it. She's like, let's just stop taking the medicine.
You'll be all right, cheering him on what a great wife.

Speaker 2 (49:06):
Have to socking a crap out of it.

Speaker 1 (49:11):
Within days, Ed starts sinking back into his depressions, just depression.
Katy finds him pulling his hair out on multiple occasions,
saying it's on fire. Over the next few months, Ed
talks of Satan's voice in his head telling him to
kill her. He starts scratching his skin until it bleeds
because how itchy it is, and may Ed tells Katie
he wants to end the torture by shooting himself. Katy

(49:34):
hides all of his guns in the buggy shed. That night,
Ed smashes his fist through a window, climbs on the roof,
and threatens to jump. Around this time, Katy's parents were
pulling up the driveway, so Ed jumped off their ten
foot roof, landed on the ground, and ran off.

Speaker 2 (49:48):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (49:51):
Yeah, it's only ten feet and not a lot of
damage happening there. So yeah. About one hundred yards later
down the road, Ed's father and brother pick him up
because he fell asleep and brought him home. May fifth. Actually,
it took me hours to type this stuff up. I
was kind of talking to State about it, but I

(50:13):
was doing the best I could to write this timeline
to where it had some comical bits at it. So
May fifth, Ed wakes up, I already did that one.
Ed's father and brother hog tied him while sleeping and
loaded him into a local englishman's van to take him
to another hospital. Upon arriving at Jones Memorial Health Center

(50:34):
in Jamesport, New York, Ed's brother took him out of
the van and set him on the ground while Katie
and his dad went to the hospital staff, who demanded
they untied him as soon as they saw him. Hog
tight on the ground. Once inside, it drops on all
fours and runs around the lobby, knocking over ivy stands, tables, chairs,
and pants, utensils, then falling fast asleep.

Speaker 2 (50:54):
He was definitely getting to sleep, you know what.

Speaker 1 (50:58):
I just think he needs a good hope and that
foot must be real stiff right now.

Speaker 3 (51:04):
He is just reminding me. You know those goat, the
fainting goats, like when they get like too much stress
on their system, they like fall over their legs or stuff.
And just in my head, I'm seeing him running around
the waiting room knocking shit over it. He just goes nerve.

Speaker 1 (51:21):
That's funny, Okay, So they put him on a bed,
they take him. He wakes up about an hour and
a half later and wakes up on an examination room
or in an examination room, and he starts ripping the
medical appliances and cabinets off the walls. Staff forced him
onto the table where Ed is given two hundred milligrams
of mallaureal mallarreal. I'm not sure do you know what

(51:41):
that is, Sean.

Speaker 3 (51:43):
How's it spelled m E L l A r I
L melarel.

Speaker 1 (51:51):
That's probably I mean, it's back in the eighties, so
it is.

Speaker 3 (51:54):
Yes, I mean unless it goes by another name. Now
I'm not from me.

Speaker 1 (51:59):
Ed says that the doctor asked, what's what the problem
is after he gives him a melorial, and Ed says
he has a bad case of liver cancer and he
has seen a light so bright he thought he was
in hell. Then he asked the doctor if he knows
his brother. The doctor says no, and Ed says, when
my brother slept with Katie, I saw an angel fly
out of her mouth. The doctor, at a lost her words,

(52:20):
sends ed to a padded room.

Speaker 3 (52:23):
That wasn't an angel.

Speaker 1 (52:26):
Uh. The term they actually used was a little bit
more vulgar than had sex with Katie. So I just
made it had sex with Katie because the words he
used was a little bit more rough. So, but that's
basically what he said.

Speaker 2 (52:41):
I just looked up melloorial and the word by our
daisine came up. I don't think I'm pronouncing it something
like that.

Speaker 1 (52:53):
Yeah, that sounds right because one of the other doctors
she just franquilized, so that sounds right. Okay, all right,
So the doctor's uh May fifteenth Ed is released with
more prescriptions. This time he stops taking them after four days,
with the support of his wife Katie. Through the summer,
it seems to be behaving. He's behaving himself. He's still

(53:16):
obviously losing weight. His eyes are kind of sunk, and
he looks depressed. He makes it till about winter being
semi normal normal Ed. By the time Winner hits, Ed's
family was cooped up inside and his health was not
doing well. He starts talking about seeing a giant bunny
watching him through the windows, as father insists. As father

(53:40):
and sists to see another English doctor March sixteenth, nineteen
ninety three, which Ed agrees and go ahead, just the wind.

Speaker 3 (53:52):
No, no, you don't understand, Harvey. Harvey's out shy the window.

Speaker 2 (53:59):
So I guess where I'm at. Where I'm stuck at
is as long as you're doing human things, it's treatable
by natural molasses or whatever. But as soon as you
start acting like an animal, Oh oh, you need to
go see an English stock.

Speaker 3 (54:21):
Basically, yeah, Marr, it's all molasses. Hope to have the molasses.

Speaker 1 (54:35):
Well, this brand works better for this one brand, for
this one.

Speaker 2 (54:38):
Oh my goodness.

Speaker 1 (54:41):
So March seventeenth, after I agrees, uh, the family takes
him to an Amish healer in punk Satani, Pennsylvania. Immediately
after entering this guy's home and drops on all fours saying, oh,
this is nice, and he starts crawling around admiring his floors.
The doctor's son comes walking up the stairs from the
basement and Ed runs up to him and starts yelling

(55:02):
at him, saying, do I look normal? Can you tell
there is something wrong with me? The doctor insists they leave,
telling Katie he has a mental problem and needs to
go see a hospital for fear suicide. On the right home,
Ed complains about his brain boiling over and then falls
fast asleep. March eighteenth, nineteen ninety three, the Amish families

(55:23):
were coming to the settlement for the wedding of a
local Amish woman. Katie and Ed's family agreed that Ed
should not attend the wedding and they would take turns
watching him so everyone could attend. After a brief nap,
Ed came down to the kitchen where his brother and
Katie are sitting, and he starts shouting at them, saying,
why are you trying to kill me? You're trying to
poison the devil, That's what that is. In me, and

(55:47):
then he goes and lies down on a cot. Then
he tells Katie he has some chores to finish and
then we'll be back. While Katie's washing the dishes, she
turns around and finds Ed standing over she's without saying
a word, he punches her in the face and knocks
her to the ground. She screams for her oldest son, Danny,
who's six at the time, to go to Ed's brother,
who lives about a mile and a half down the road,

(56:09):
which she does. When Ed's brother arrives, he sees Katie
lying motionless on the ground with that on top, continuously
pounding his fist into her face. Danny asks, at what
you are doing? He stands up and says calmly that
this is what she deserves, then stops on her face,
sits back on top of her, and continues to punch.
Danny is terrified and leaves, which he still has two

(56:30):
younger children in the house and Danny still ran off,
so he runs off to call nine one one. You
guys got anything before? I keep going because it's work.

Speaker 2 (56:41):
I mean, that's terrible, but I mean she did punch
him first. Uh, that's I mean that's good. That's good.
Good time. Oh my god, that was awful, but that's good.

(57:12):
I think instead of the person running away, they should
have tried to stop him from continuing, because that had
to be an awful site and then the kick and
then continuing. You know, there's kids in the house. Yeah,
just again, we're talking about people with the eighth grade

(57:34):
education who probably aren't doing the smartest type of reactions
to things. But I would think that would be a
natural reaction to like kind of grab him and pull
him away from that type of action.

Speaker 3 (57:52):
Agreed, Yeah, you got anything else?

Speaker 1 (57:56):
You ready to keep going?

Speaker 3 (57:57):
No, I was thinking the same thing he was thinking.
I don't like if you see somebody attacking somebody, especially
if a dude's beating on a woman, like you try
and stop it. You don't go, wow, this looks really
bad and then go a mile and a half down
the road and call nine one, Like, bro, you are
nine one one at that moment?

Speaker 2 (58:15):
Yeah, yeah, no, kid.

Speaker 1 (58:19):
Ed proceeds to put his work boots on and stomp
her head in. Ed grabs a steak knife and makes
a seven inch decision under Kade's lower abdomen and starts
pulling out her lungs, kidney's, stomach, liver, spleen, bladder, uterus,
and heart, stacking them next to your body. Ed then
washes his hands, throws his Bible in the fire, and

(58:40):
tells his kids to put on their coats so he
could take him to Grandpa's.

Speaker 2 (58:48):
Okay, yeah, yeah, gee, yeah that's rough, So thank you.

Speaker 1 (58:55):
Let me read this next part here and then we'll
take a pause. And the last part that I have
is basically his interrogation statements for for wrapping this up.
But the paramatics find Ed walking down the street with
his kids. When he's asked what he's doing, he says, hey,
I'm taking the kids his grandparents. Police, after being told
what happened by Ed or Ed's brother, approached Ed and

(59:16):
he admits immediately that I'm the bad man you were
looking for. While while they're cuffing him, a piece of
flesh fall out of his coat and lansall on the
officers shoes. And by one am the next morning, Ed
is in an interrogation room. So I want to pause
here before I get into that. What are your guys thoughts? Uh?

Speaker 2 (59:33):
He snapped, He lost it completely. Whatever was affecting him
up until this point. I think he gave into whatever
he was thinking and just reacted to that and just
kind of lost it completely.

Speaker 3 (59:55):
That's what I got.

Speaker 2 (59:58):
Got Sean.

Speaker 3 (01:00:00):
Well, two things. One, according to evolution, she had it coming.
And this is gonna be this is gonna be a
wild swing.

Speaker 2 (01:00:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:00:20):
But is this I'm gonna ask a question. I'm gonna
give you what I think. Is this guy still a
live or as he did?

Speaker 1 (01:00:27):
He ended up taking his life several years down the road.

Speaker 3 (01:00:30):
Okay, did they do an autopsy on him?

Speaker 1 (01:00:33):
I didn't see anything about it. Okay, I know he's
I know he is buried next to his wife.

Speaker 3 (01:00:39):
Okay, I just wonder if he had syphilis.

Speaker 1 (01:00:43):
Oh, I don't know that. I didn't see any of
that any of the research I did.

Speaker 3 (01:00:46):
Well, you were talking about the lesions on the brain
and everything or not the brain on fire and some
different things that you've said with the crazy cakes and
things like that, And I was just wondering if they
did an autopsy and found the legions on the brain
and some of the resulting uh like psychosis could be

(01:01:07):
related to that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:08):
Wow, that didn't even that didn't even like occur to me.
As without with that being said, what are you thinking
with just that?

Speaker 3 (01:01:18):
That's like he he was going. He was on this
downward spiral and molasses was not helping a.

Speaker 1 (01:01:26):
Thing, and if I think it was a top and
the top was helping.

Speaker 3 (01:01:31):
So he needed some too. There's no fucking doubt about that.
I mean, my god. But when he went to that
one healer and there and they then that's what a
doctor should do, even if they aren't a full fledged
doctor can look at somebody and go, this guy needs like,
he needs help. He needs help in a mental hospital,

(01:01:52):
like an institution of that nature. They should have taken him.
They should have done that because they I think there's
so much stuff that was just misdiagnosed with this guy,
and it was his wife, and because of how their
community is and the doctor that they were going to,

(01:02:15):
this guy should have been saved a long time ago.
He was kind of started out with just normal. I
don't want to be a part of this community, and
he should have just been able to go.

Speaker 1 (01:02:27):
Yeah, but that.

Speaker 3 (01:02:28):
Coupled with everything else, led to this. How unfortunate. Okay,
that's what I got.

Speaker 2 (01:02:34):
No, I agree.

Speaker 1 (01:02:36):
I don't think that there was anything okay about what
he did. And I think that again that I believe
he served fifteen years and he was out for like
three years before he was found hung in a barn.
I killed himself. Even had put like a an apology
note on one of the dusty barrels by where he
had hung himself. But I didn't even put that in here,

(01:03:01):
because really, this is the main point of what I
was trying to get to, was what we've got to now.
And then here is some of the excerpts from his interrogation.
The recorder is turned on around one am and an
investigator begans speaking, Ed, do you know what a tape
recorder is? Uh? Huh? Ed replies, I explained to you,
and I read you the forms that says you have

(01:03:24):
the right to remain silent and whatnot. You remember that,
do you understand? Ed stared at his investigator momentarily before
shaking his head. No, he says, you do not. Ed says,
you understand know? The reporter says, sorry, the investigator, this
is confusing. You understand that the stuff that you say
can be held against you about what went on today?

(01:03:44):
Do you understand that? Ed says, how do you mean?
He says, Well, things that you say could be held
against you in the court of law. You understand that,
Ed responds with, yeah, and religion, law and religion, and
you have read or you have the right to an attorney.
Do you understand that. Let's see here, Yes, so you

(01:04:05):
understand that. Yeah, but in our religion, we will not
have done that. Ed said, we have to go by
the law, and the law says I have to tell
you this. Do you understand, No, you have the right
to an attorney. You understand that?

Speaker 2 (01:04:20):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:04:20):
What what am I what I'm thinking? My mind is confused.
I'm going to tell you that right now. But this
reason we don't use the number, the Social Security number,
because of the beat, the beats somewhere the computer. In fact,
we feel we contract our minds. Ed was obviously confused
and not making any sense at all in the interrogation room.

(01:04:42):
And this goes on for an hour and then they
basically take him to prison. But I wanted to put
that a little bit in here because and it goes
on a little bit longer, but it's so confusing because
Ed clearly does understand half the stuff they're talking to about,
and what he does understand doesn't make sense. So he

(01:05:03):
needed he needed to be seen much much earlier on.

Speaker 2 (01:05:08):
Well, it's it's the I think the one friend that
came over and realized that it was too much chemical
in a confined space and he needed to ventilate the
place and you know, dilute that stuff, and he didn't,
and that's really probably was the source of his ah,

(01:05:31):
you know, downfall in this condition and whatnot outside of
him wanting to get out and do other things different
than his community. Right, and then the wife was no
help by not speaking up or.

Speaker 1 (01:05:50):
In the face.

Speaker 2 (01:05:52):
Yeah, yeah, I mean that was her first communication, right,
that was her first line of communication. She punched him
in the.

Speaker 1 (01:05:59):
Face, smiled me like that again, you know, so so
I'm like okay.

Speaker 2 (01:06:05):
So all that built up and it led to that
and then poor ed, you know, everything built up and
led to what he did because of the lack of
response or not the right treatment. And then when he
did get the right treatment, he went back to the community,
to the community, and they took him off of it

(01:06:25):
or he stopped using it with their support, you know,
and suggestion that he stopped using it. But he had
many opportunities for them to remedy his situation, but unfortunately,
because of the background and and how everything is set up.
It just led to things evolve into where they were

(01:06:48):
and what they did to where it ended up. How
it did.

Speaker 1 (01:06:53):
Sucks, Yeah it does. And And to think if he
if he would have taken the rout of instead of
marrying Katie and leaving the community, just how much different
things could have turned out.

Speaker 2 (01:07:06):
Yeah, he was, he was very very bright. He had
a lot of creativity and skills. I probably could have
did some goods in the world.

Speaker 3 (01:07:16):
What you got, Sean no just. I think in the end,
if they were to do an autopsy syphilis or otherwise
from the chemicals and things I almost mentioned, they would
find lesions on his brain. I would bet money on it.
I think that there's also a possibility where he might
have just been mentally unstable. I mean, if you look

(01:07:37):
at the statistics that are applied to the lack of
genetic diversity in that community, and as a matter of fact,
I was just talking about this with somebody earlier this week,
the actual statistics based around that, that could be an issue,

(01:08:00):
you know. And then I mean, you know there's the
the far flung thing over here where maybe he was possessed,
maybe the devil was fucking with him, you know. I
mean it's you know, if we're all things being equal,
why not right? But there there were so many things
that were against this guy from the get go. At

(01:08:23):
one point, I thought you were going to tell you're
going to tell us that he started sleeping with that
guy that he was having the meetings in the car with.
This thing has been so wacky, you know, And that's
why she punched him in the face, you know, because
he's sleeping with the Bible salesman.

Speaker 2 (01:08:39):
I did.

Speaker 1 (01:08:40):
I was curious about why they didn't like question about
all the visits by this David guy. And the most
I could come up with his I mean, he's running
a business. He's dealing with these local englishmen for business purposes,
So why why question him? And you know he's not
coming back saying hey, I really believe this guy. He's

(01:09:03):
coming back with I need to leave. I gotta go.
You know this isn't right, you know. So he's tossed
because he's not telling them what's going on really, but he.

Speaker 3 (01:09:13):
Is rightly go ahead.

Speaker 2 (01:09:20):
I also think that he spent so much time in
the meal in the machine shop to just get away,
you know, that was that was his his way, you know, yeah,
his escape.

Speaker 1 (01:09:34):
Yeah yeah, and I think.

Speaker 3 (01:09:37):
We like the kids is not I mean that's fair.
I mean, nobody likes kids anyway, So I get that.
But I know I can tell you for a fact,
Jukebox actually one hundred percent correct because when I was
a purchasing manager manager for a company in the like
twenty sixteen to twenty nineteen timeframe, and we used to

(01:10:01):
have to go to an Amish sawmill and buy live edge,
would like where they would cut the logs so would
have that live edge for mantles and stuff like that.
We would go out and go to these sawmills and
talk to these folks and deal with them directly. So
one hundred percent I agree with that that that was

(01:10:24):
probably very normal.

Speaker 1 (01:10:25):
Yeah, and then then they don't talk about it in
their community because they're not really supposed to, you know.
So it's business is business sell to them.

Speaker 3 (01:10:35):
But that's about it.

Speaker 1 (01:10:37):
The only person he's confining is with is his wife, who's,
you know, trying to get him help. But at the
same time he's thinking that she's, you know, trying to
kill him. So it's and she's torn because she's like,
I want to get your help. But I don't know
that I should be going down this whole, you know,
I shouldn't be going towards medical stuff. And tell well,
hold on, go bark like a dog real quick for me,
and then I'll change my mind.

Speaker 3 (01:10:58):
I don't think she liked him though. That's the thing
I don't see.

Speaker 1 (01:11:01):
That's the thing they were. They felt pressure to get married.
I don't They were both on and off. They weren't
really serious, you know, they felt pressured to get married,
and that's why they got married. And then on top
of that, which I didn't include in the information, is
that she wanted like two digit number of kids, because
that's what you're supposed to be doing. And so she's
here like he's not sleeping with me. You know, I'm

(01:11:24):
not doing what I'm supposed to be doing. So I
imagine she probably did build a hatred towards him because
she couldn't talk to anybody about it, and she was
the one having to deal with it. All fais on.

Speaker 3 (01:11:35):
She punched him in the damn fun Here's okay, So
here's a quick story. Years ago, I was hanging out
as one of my best friends. His name was Dusty,
and uh, we're hanging out at his his place in
Logan Sport, Indiana, and his fiance was there. In the

(01:12:00):
fiance's mom was there, and it was it was like
now it was October. So they had little, you know,
decorations all over the place, you know, for Halloween and
you know you can get those little rock hard pumpkins
you know, to decorate your house with, you know, like
the Gords and shit. Yeah. So they're having an argument

(01:12:23):
and he and I are like really uncomfortable, but we're
kind of laughing about it because it's really white trashy
like the way they're arguing. And all of a sudden,
the mom looks at his fiance and she goes, you're
a bitch, Like she calls her a bitch. Okay, His
fiance reaches down to the coffee table, grabs one of

(01:12:46):
those rock hard pumpkins and hucks it at her. Mom
hits her in the nose her. The mom's note explodes
and she falls back, and I went, whoa, whoa, oh,
I just and I said this a lot. I went,
yo tendu too. You went from bitch to pumpkin. You
missed a step. The impression I get with this whole

(01:13:14):
thing where she just decks him in the faces, like,
there's you missed some steps in between that, lady.

Speaker 1 (01:13:25):
I think, and I think a big part of why
I picked this one was because the house severe was.
I mean, it was bad, but we've done a lot
of episodes on here, and they've all had some more
twists to it to made it pre gross. I picked
it because I think there's there's something to be said
here about religion, and I think that I have a

(01:13:48):
lot of respect for people who can be committed to religion,
but you need to to see the other side and
and kind of acknowledge that there's more out there than
just your religion.

Speaker 2 (01:14:02):
Oh yeah, I mean absolutely, because when you think about it,
people are born in different areas, in different backgrounds, and
they're born and raised and that's all they know. And
if they don't get outside that, or if they're told
not to go outside that, you know, that's the only
thing they see, the only thing they know, and the
only thing they practice, regardless of how you know, even

(01:14:26):
if they want to go outside of that, just to
see what's out there, you know, it's it can be
damaging if it's too extreme, you know, like anything else.
But yeah, I just think that the what do you
call it, the the focus or the the the stress

(01:14:49):
of importance, Well, the distress of the importance of that
view a can can be quite extreme in most cases.
And it's almost like politics. You know, some people are
so focused on being one one way that they refuse

(01:15:12):
to even consider the other way.

Speaker 1 (01:15:14):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:15:15):
So, and in those cases, even though it's supposed to
be set up for the betterment of everyone, it kind
of overlooks the importance of the betterment of everyone to
focus on the one view that's being presented.

Speaker 3 (01:15:33):
Right. What's you got, Sean, I think much like the
extremeism of wolk culture, where it's this self masturbatory benevolence
where you know, we have the moral high ground, it
is the extreme on the other side, where it's the

(01:15:54):
ultra ideological side of things, where they have this been
evioleence of you know, we have avoided this thing because
we are so close to God. And then you know,
even though they live in a community that makes no
show of things, right, yet they have pride and will

(01:16:21):
shun people if they do anything outside of this strict
adherence to you know what I'm saying. It's like there's
still a level of pride and this level of anti
wokeism that is like far flung on the other side,
you know, and they talk about you know this well,
you know it's against you know, it's like, or you

(01:16:42):
could look at it this way, that God has allowed
us to have advances in medical practices and things like
this so that you can come in get some ivermaictin,
get some amoxicillin, you know, God forbid, you know, some
musin X whatever the fuck right, and the Lord has
provided that too, to knock out the problems or whatever

(01:17:04):
it is. But you are so wrapped up and you're
trying to be pious and righteous and everything else and
prove to the community that you are literally holier than now,
to the rest of the world that you will let
this man suffer and die. And the best thing you
can come the fuck up with is cracking toes and molasses.

(01:17:27):
Go fuck yourself, right, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:17:32):
And then that's not that some spam, says best viewers
on street dot Com.

Speaker 2 (01:17:41):
I do want to highlight something that hasn't been pointed out.
It's just kind of what I do.

Speaker 1 (01:17:48):
I don't know what's t'm about.

Speaker 2 (01:17:49):
And in the events that he was attacking her, uh,
and pulling out her insides. I'm wondering what cause too
to put part of that in his pocket, because he didn't.

Speaker 1 (01:18:05):
I just fell out, like when he was matching her facing.
Maybe it just splattered on him and fell out.

Speaker 2 (01:18:13):
Well, I thought you said it fell out of his
pocket onto the coat.

Speaker 1 (01:18:17):
It fell out, but not necessarily his pocket, just as.

Speaker 2 (01:18:21):
But yeah, that a little weird. Go ahead.

Speaker 3 (01:18:26):
If you checked the back of her license, she had
an organ donor card filled out.

Speaker 6 (01:18:33):
He was just trying to like see the middle man
opens up his coat like a guy watches.

Speaker 1 (01:18:45):
I want to know if I take notes on this salon.

Speaker 3 (01:18:50):
This is. This has not been a good There was
like a really brutal murder, and we're just like, oh
my fucking god.

Speaker 1 (01:18:59):
Hold on. So so there is a part of the investigation.
Let's see here. Maybe you can explain to me why
you felt that you had to remove Katie's brain and
work your way from the brain down. He says, you
know how we the human being are made. The investigator replied,
from the top down. Ed says, that's right. I had
it in my mind that if I worked from the

(01:19:20):
top down. It pauses and then says, I'm still lost.
I don't know what to say. He basically says that
he thought he could fix her by doing it from
the top down.

Speaker 3 (01:19:35):
Now that's a Ponzi scheme. Ed Jesus.

Speaker 2 (01:19:41):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:19:42):
Yeah, there were so many things about the story that
are so funny but grotesquely terrible. Yeah, and I think
it was a good story to pick for Syngedi Sockets.

Speaker 2 (01:19:57):
I agree, love, I love this.

Speaker 3 (01:20:00):
I haven't laughed as hard through one of our stories
and yet felt so disgusted in myself and both of
you at the same time.

Speaker 1 (01:20:09):
She swung first, like way, let's be.

Speaker 3 (01:20:18):
Clear here, guys. All right, the injury going on?

Speaker 1 (01:20:22):
He was, he was, it was defense. It was defense,
like very.

Speaker 3 (01:20:28):
Delayed gratification self defense. That's for a year and a
half ago, ye.

Speaker 1 (01:20:35):
Bitch, al right, guys, Well you know it's it's always
fun to wrap these up on some comical endings. Did
you guys have anything else before in the show?

Speaker 2 (01:20:49):
Well, I'll say this, there was no getting away from
her because they ended up being buried beside each other.
We grow honest of how he felt, she felt for
what happened. They ended up side by side. So who
knows who's smacking who at this point, but uh, it's

(01:21:15):
a sad story. I just think that people need to
be more open to properly getting treated for whatever is
being dealt with, dealt with right and even even even
if it goes outside of their beliefs and customs. You know,

(01:21:36):
these things are out there to help, they were designed
to help, and sometimes they're being abused or overused by whoever.
But in the in the best sense of the creation
of these treatments, it's for people who need them and
in sickness or whatever they're dealing with.

Speaker 3 (01:21:58):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:21:59):
So we need to be and not stubborn to utilize
the things that are out there for us in the
best way possible to prevent things like that from happening.

Speaker 1 (01:22:12):
Right, I agree.

Speaker 2 (01:22:15):
I agree.

Speaker 1 (01:22:15):
There's so many religions out there now and there there's
so many Yeah, like like Sean said, woke people to
who want to, you know, retaliate against everything that you know,
there's reality and I think that seeing that there were
clear results with the medication. Okay, he was a zombie,

(01:22:39):
I got it, but he wasn't walking around on all
fours talking about a bunding through window. So okay, okay,
maybe this isn't the right medication. But it doesn't mean
that it's wrong. It just means that maybe they need
to adjust some of your prescriptions or you know, but
clearly this was working, so you know, instead of that,

(01:23:02):
their fear was like, no, get rid of it, it's bad,
you know. So I think that that's part of that
eighth grade mentality that they had and their beliefs. So
but yeah, no, I agree with what both of you said,
and I think that this is one of those things
where there's definitely a learning lesson here, and I think
until next time, everybody will see around, take care