Shaking it up! | Skeptic Generation | Episode 4 Season 3 - Skeptic Generation

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm Eric Murphy. This
is Skeptic Generation and we need to talk. It is
February twenty fifth, twenty twenty four. I apologize for the
late start, y'all, so trying to get everything ready to go.
I in the past, before our hiatus, I would make

(00:44):
a safety copy, a local recording of the audio, just
to make sure that it could get a really clean
version of everything for the podcast. Getting everything set up
again just with updates. Right before the show, I lost
all of it. I lost all of the set up

(01:04):
and all of that, and I ran a little like
getting it going. I didn't even have time to put
on my jacket. But that's okay. I'm just happy to
be here. So I had a couple of announcements and
just jumping in and everything has just got me going.
So let's get in the groove. We've already got a caller,

(01:26):
which is fantastic. If you want to talk to us,
to well to me today. We do have a guest
next week, but if you want to talk, please feel
free to call. That's the outro. There we go, Okay,
feel free to call. It's four and two Skepchen. This
tiny dot CC slash skep gen it would be sincerely appreciated. Yeah,

(01:52):
it's toll free. We pay for it, so give us
a call. Don't mind the outro apologize, okay, So let
me get into announcements. Starting off next week, we're gonna
have a special guest Seculararity who's been a volunteer, a
mod on this channel for a long time friend and

(02:15):
somebody who's on other shows excited for it. We didn't
do it in the past because we wanted to do
in person only episodes, but since we have moved left
the state, it's not viable. We're now doing online stuff,
just like how I did with Genetically Modified Skeptic last week,
I do have an announcement for patrons. So it turns

(02:36):
out there were some issues with the podcast. I want
to apologize, and the way I'm going to apologize is
it is a patron level to get an ad free
version of the podcast and an AD free version of
the live show. So for the last two weeks, I'm
going to give that ad free version to all levels

(02:57):
of patron as a thank you for yours, and I apologize.
Just getting everything going has been wild, and you know,
getting all of the services set up has been funny,
So thank you so much for your patience. It's sincerely appreciated.
I put in the in the the description for this

(03:19):
video that I'm shaking it up. There's going to be
some big changes for me which is going to impact
the show. So getting this show going, you guys, has
been so important to me. It has such a huge
impact on my well being. I mean, just having this

(03:43):
community is something that I deeply, deeply missed, and it
made me realize that I didn't like my job, so
I quit. I have done for years contract work as
a video editor and as a podcast YouTube starting your

(04:05):
show host and or coach for you know, coaching hosts
and all of that stuff. So I'm getting back into
it and I think it's going to be a blast.
What that's going to mean for the show is after
I end my job at the end of next week,
I'm going to be able to dedicate more time to
Skeptic Generation. I'm going to get back into making sure
that we're posting regularly on social media and in the
community tab on YouTube. That means that the podcast and

(04:29):
hopefully daily clips will be going out and all of
that's really really important. To me, So I'm really excited
to see it happen. And the show is still a
labor of love and I'm happy to be here. I'm
happy to be doing this with you. So I don't know,

(04:53):
it's just it's a big deal for me and I
wanted to share that said, if you do want to
be a patron, that's sincerely appreciated. I should, and I
do normally put out an AD free version of the podcast,
an AD free version of this this live show audio corrected.

(05:15):
It sounds better as a podcast, and you know in
the ad free version of the show because I make
the audio just shine. So if you want to check
it out, go to patreon dot com slash skeptic Generation.
That's the patreon dot com slash skeptic generation where we
do that and other things, including special access to rooms.
In the discord. It was very very active and I

(05:39):
really really want to see people getting active in there. Again,
speaking of I've been going to our discord to talk
to everyone after the show. If you want to join
us in the live show, you can see the link
to the discord in the description for this video. I
would be happy to see you. On top of that, Oh,

(06:00):
we had a caller drop out. I hope that's okay,
all right, So I sincerely do need callers, y'all, So
one more time four one two step gen. That's tiny
dot cc slash skeep gen And if you want the
number directly four one two seven five three seven four
three six if you're calling from your cell phone or online,
tiny dot cc slash scp gen that's going to keep

(06:20):
us going. Dang, we had somebody who wanted to talk
about Zionism being racism and I really really would have
liked that. That would have been fun. If you worthy
caller call back. I hope everything's okay, okay, so let
me make sure that I got everything. I'm quitting my job,

(06:42):
going back to doing contract work. If anybody wants to
start a podcast or YouTube channel doesn't know where to start,
hit me up on LinkedIn. I'm happy to help you out.
Other than that, I'm doing work for other YouTube channels already,
which is fantastic. Really excited about that. As for the show,
I'm getting back into. As for the show, I'm getting

(07:06):
back into doing the podcast getting the ad free versions
of things out and as an apology, I'm doing that great.
Let me see was there anything else? I don't think,
so I really really hope that things are working out

(07:26):
for calls, because I have completely lost the thread here
calling back. Oh good, thank you. Okay, so I'm just
waiting on that caller to call back. In the meantime,
let me check and see what's going on. Let's see. Oh,

(07:48):
already getting some super chats. Thank you so much. I
really appreciate that sound quality live on YouTube is great,
Brent sincerely appreciate that, but getting a local recording is incredible,
and I do want people who are especially listening to things,
you know, in their car on their way to work,

(08:08):
I want it to sound great. I don't want people
chasing the knob. I tend to speak very softly and
then sometimes get very loud, and it can be a
less pleasant experience until it's normalized, cleaned up. I take
the room noise out and all of that good stuff.
So it's definitely worth checking out, even if you watch

(08:29):
it on YouTube. To check out the podcast, I'm gonna
be posting the last few episodes because there was an issue.
They have been posted. In this apology, I'm putting out
the addre version for all patron levels. Let's see where's
the energy drink? Dude, I haven't even had time. I've
got the bottom of a thing, a glass of water.

(08:52):
I've been trying to get this audio going all morning,
and I'm just happy to be out. I'm just happy
to be live. Ah, okay, sound fine you. I appreciate that.
I can't wait to read these more of these comments,
but we do need callers. Hey, y'all, if you had

(09:12):
a philosophy question or just something even personal, now's the time.
I'm willing to take it. Four one two seven five
three seven four three six that's for one two skepchen.
Or if you're calling on your computer, tiny dot cc
slash skepchen, that's tiny dot cc slash s k E

(09:33):
p g e N. Hope that works out. Okay, okay.
In the meantime, let me see. I in the process
of doing skepchen, I think, oh perfect, I will grab

(09:57):
this call. Why not Steve in Ohio, Hello, hight.

Speaker 2 (10:08):
Sorry, didn't get a chance to give you a heads
up on what I was calling about.

Speaker 1 (10:14):
No worries, honestly, you are the So. I had a
bunch of callers and then I'm not sure what happened,
but everybody dropped out, and so I'm just glad to
be talking to you. You have called back before. Last
time we talked, we talked about your wife losing her
pagan faith and fear of death. Is that right?

Speaker 2 (10:32):
Yeah, And a lot of the stuff that you gave
me to use, along with some of the stuff people
in the comments brought up help a lot with her
coming to terms of it.

Speaker 3 (10:43):
She's doing a lot better now with it.

Speaker 1 (10:45):
Oh good, I'm happy to hear it. Let me get
your name here, all right, So what did you want
to talk about today?

Speaker 4 (10:55):
Well, one, thank you again for that conversation last time,
and ended up coming in Andy yesterday when my kid
went through a similar thought process, not with losing space,
but just they saw a video of two pets together
that were best friends and they freaked out because they
had the thought that one of them is going to
die before the other, and then had a whole half

(11:15):
an hour panic attack over nothing should die. I may
use essentially the same advice.

Speaker 5 (11:24):
You know.

Speaker 1 (11:25):
The funny thing is, so I don't have any kids,
but I do have a history of working in schools
and working with kids for years. And what's what's really
funny about them? Is they look to you for cues
on how important a thing is. And I've definitely seen

(11:48):
kids go oh okay and just kind of walk away,
you know, when it's treated matter of factly, and when
it's treated really, you know, heavily, and I need to
I need to sit down, and this is really important.
It can be a lot more intense. I wish that
my parents would have treated that, treated death that way
for me. But I'm I'm I'm glad you got to

(12:10):
have that conversation. I'm glad I got to help. Did
you check out the the uh what is it? The
Pagan Elephant book?

Speaker 6 (12:18):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (12:19):
Yeah, this book is going to end ended up reading
it a few times through it.

Speaker 3 (12:26):
It was fun, it was unexpected.

Speaker 1 (12:30):
I'm glad. I'm really glad. So was there anything in
particular that you wanted to talk about today?

Speaker 7 (12:39):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (12:39):
Actually so, And I was gonna let other people have
the airwaves because it wasn't I didn't exactly know where
I needed to go with it. But so, that same
the same kid a few a month ago, a couple
of months ago, they very nervously told me that they

(13:05):
had started going to church, and I am if you
remember a pretty atheistic at.

Speaker 3 (13:11):
This point, they.

Speaker 2 (13:16):
Got very absorbed into it, and I had always shied
away from trying to shove what I believe onto them.
I wanted them to discover whatever they believe on their own.
And I wasn't sure if I was making the right
choice there. Like I'm pretty sure I went the right

(13:39):
way about it, but there was something that I guess
hurt in the way they brought it up, and I'm
not sure. I want to make sure I make the
right decision on how to interact with them about it,
because that's why they don't want to shove my own
belief on them, like I said. But at the same time,

(14:01):
if I'm noticing some harmful things that the church are
going to is saying, what do you think does that
make sense?

Speaker 1 (14:08):
It does? It does? And so a couple of questions.
I'm sorry, I'm just I was getting I'm getting everything
I'm while I'm hosting, I'm also live producing, and so
I'm setting things up. So is this your child?

Speaker 3 (14:25):
Yeah, this is my kid when I was thirteen.

Speaker 2 (14:28):
Now, when I was eighteen, I got a little taken
advantage of but I have now of that kid.

Speaker 3 (14:34):
I'm gonna make sure they have a good life.

Speaker 1 (14:35):
You know, that's wonderful. How is your child? How's your
kid going to church without you? Like, how's how's that
an option for them? Like, what's what's the situation there?

Speaker 2 (14:48):
They So there are a few different options for them.
Most of my family is religious, and occasionally my mom
will ask them to like I have to ask my
mom to watch Aaron for me and Aaron alast to
go to church because they like seeing the different facets
of it. But two months ago they got hyper depressed

(15:09):
and then their grandma on their mother's.

Speaker 3 (15:12):
Side took them to.

Speaker 2 (15:15):
A how I describe it, they're non denominational, but it's
the type of non denominational that it's very denominational, like creationists,
Young Earth. Everything in the Bible is true.

Speaker 8 (15:29):
Yeah, a little.

Speaker 2 (15:31):
Counterintuitive there with Daway it's described. But they did a
lot of love bombing, and after like four times of going,
they were dead set on trying to get baptized.

Speaker 3 (15:45):
They had this whole.

Speaker 2 (15:45):
Speech written up and I was like, you take it slow,
purely just to respect the religion, and they had a
breakdown about being.

Speaker 1 (15:53):
Told Now, So it sounds like your family is really
working on trying to endock your kid behind your back.

Speaker 3 (16:03):
Sorry.

Speaker 2 (16:04):
So the one that took them to that church, that
would be the grandmother on their mother's side. My family
is very they're they're just like, if you want to
go cool, if not, that's fine. There their mother's grandmother,
that's the yeah, very religious one.

Speaker 3 (16:24):
I want to make sure that part was clear.

Speaker 1 (16:25):
Sorry, no, no, I sincerely appreciate it. So as a parent,
I think you have absolutely the right to say, hey,
you know, is the mother also doing this.

Speaker 3 (16:39):
She's she quit going.

Speaker 2 (16:40):
To uh church. She doesn't really have a faith anymore either.
Me and her have a pretty good relationship, but the
kid really wants that relationship with their grandmother and religion
is very important to them.

Speaker 8 (16:58):
So that's how they.

Speaker 3 (16:59):
Ended up bonding.

Speaker 1 (17:00):
Yeah. Well, shit, that is a really tough question because
you're already in the situation, so if you say stop
doing it, you are going to be the evil atheist.
On top of that, this is a bonding thing for grandma.
So first off, I just want to say, I'm just
an asshole on the internet. I can give you my opinion,

(17:23):
and my opinion here is be there for your kid,
you know, be there to answer questions and all of that.
But instead of trying to jump in and put a

(17:48):
stop to things at this point because they're already in
this far and they're old enough to remember remember this.
Maybe maybe they just need to learn. Maybe they just
need to do it, you know.

Speaker 3 (18:05):
Okay, yeah, I mean.

Speaker 1 (18:09):
Were you were you a big Christian growing up?

Speaker 2 (18:15):
I grew up Catholic. Okay, I went to a Catholic
grade school in high school, and in high school, I
ended up having my own little existential crisis.

Speaker 9 (18:28):
And I guess like sophomore junior year, that's when I
started to lose it. I started to question it.

Speaker 2 (18:34):
Yeah, fun, well yeah, no, So I went through this
base and I know you can come back out of it.
And I'm not trying to be like I don't know.
I got a lot of thought.

Speaker 1 (18:46):
Yeah, well, I think a big piece of it is
a contextualize it. You know, if they're really really interested
in this, is this like a Southern Baptist or like
a Protestant Evangelical, Like, what's what's the denomination.

Speaker 2 (19:02):
For the one that they are getting absorbed into?

Speaker 8 (19:04):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (19:09):
So the one like I said that the Grandma's going
to is a it's they are. They say they're non denominational,
but they are anti LGBT, which that's fun for them.

Speaker 3 (19:23):
Yeah, they very.

Speaker 2 (19:26):
They're very much God doesn't make mistakes. They're younger creationists.

Speaker 1 (19:30):
Uh that sounds like my church is this Calvary Chappel?

Speaker 7 (19:33):
Oh boy, no it is?

Speaker 8 (19:38):
What was it?

Speaker 5 (19:38):
New Life?

Speaker 7 (19:41):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (19:41):
Okay, sour. So here's here's the thing. Uh, take your
child to Catholic Mass, go to a Mormon church, go
to a high church. If if they're going to be
getting into this, then there are lots and lots of
ways to contextualize this and go, hey, here's what a

(20:04):
lot of people believe.

Speaker 5 (20:06):
You know.

Speaker 1 (20:08):
I think that if they're going to learn about religion
and they're at this point, the best thing that you
can do is show them that these are there are
lots of things that people believe, you know, get them
to understand the difference between you know, one church versus
the other. Maybe maybe at an Episcopalian church, they're going

(20:32):
to see something different and say, hey, dad, why is that?
You know, why why are they doing it this way
or putting the emphasis on that, and that might help
recontextualize it. As you know, I need to get saved
or or I'm going to hell to oh saved means
different things to different Christians. You know, the end of

(20:53):
life hell, you know, could look different to different people.
I think that might help.

Speaker 2 (21:01):
Okay, I'll start with that next time you have a
low amount of colors of Calon and give you an update.

Speaker 1 (21:06):
I really really appreciate it. I mean, gosh, is it
lent right now or is that next month?

Speaker 2 (21:17):
I think I think it's next month. I don't think
it started yet.

Speaker 1 (21:21):
So how mean do you want to be?

Speaker 7 (21:26):
I mean I've.

Speaker 3 (21:27):
Already had some bad retort.

Speaker 2 (21:32):
Like when they said, oh yeah, it's just like the
Bible said, I'd respond back. I mean, that's just a
good thing to do regardless. Probably find that other places.

Speaker 1 (21:41):
Yeah, I'm just thinking of like if you were to
take your kid to Mass, you could take them now
or you could wait till Lent next month.

Speaker 2 (21:55):
Oh I see.

Speaker 5 (22:00):
Right.

Speaker 1 (22:01):
So yeah, and you know what it could be. It
could be a really fun experience. Honestly, It's been a
long time since I've done the the circuit of different
church denominations, and it's it's interesting to see that stuff again.
So definitely check it out. And if you do that,
like give me a call. I'd love to find out
how that was or what you thought of those other

(22:24):
those other denominations. And it doesn't need to be Southern Baptist.
It could be you know, a Methodist, Episcopalian. You know,
it doesn't necessarily need to be some terrible fire and brimstone,
but just different.

Speaker 2 (22:38):
Okay, fair enough, all right.

Speaker 1 (22:40):
Hey Steve, thank you so much for Colin. I appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (22:45):
Yeah, good luck for the rest of the show.

Speaker 1 (22:47):
Thanks, all right, take care bye. Oh boy, I really
hope that helps. Okay, so, oh good. I've so, I've
got a caller from Hungry Before I take them, I

(23:10):
do want to say that after this caller, I do
have room for more people. So if you want to call,
here's the number one more time four one two skep gen.
That's four one two seven five three seven four three six.
Or if you want to call online, it's usually a
better connection. You can go to tiny dot cc slash
skep gen. It is absolutely free to you. We pay

(23:32):
for it, so you don't need to worry about incurring
any charges. And I'd love to talk to you. In
the meantime, let's talk to Raphael in Hungary. Hey, Raphael, Hey.

Speaker 6 (23:45):
How you doing.

Speaker 1 (23:46):
I'm doing okay, it has been a wild morning. Oh
my goodness. I wish I could show you in callin Studio,
the app that we use for this communication for terminated call.
I've got like fifty calls with myself from before the show,
just trying to get it all worked out. So I'm

(24:07):
just happy things are going. But you wanted to talk
about something that's totally going to get me demonetized for
this episode, and I I, you know what, fuck it,
I'll give it a try, and if it goes horribly,
I at least I can say that I tried right.

Speaker 6 (24:29):
Well, I another so I hope I can prevent yourself beauty.

Speaker 10 (24:34):
Like I've been hearing some things like me special media.

Speaker 6 (24:40):
And repeating things that that that you stood me. And
you know, I just love to talk about and people
and it gives me and.

Speaker 11 (24:58):
I'm uh, you could say I'm an ace singers and
Jewish humorous Okay, So I'm just very I just feel
as a lot of hate and I feel like that
anti Zionism very quickly translates into and despite what some

(25:20):
people might say, and I feel like, you know, I'm
in a unique position where I guess received both sides
of certain conflicts in the world.

Speaker 8 (25:35):
And.

Speaker 10 (25:37):
With my own family history to know the effects, to
personally know the effects of those conflicts, and yeah.

Speaker 6 (25:46):
It's something that's very I.

Speaker 10 (25:48):
Don't know how to I'll stop talking now and I'll
let you ask questions, because yeah, I'm nervous and I.

Speaker 1 (25:54):
Don't will say that's totally understandable, and I sincerely appre
shrad it. So let me let me try and repeat
some of this back to you. You were coming in
really really quietly, and I'm not sure if you're far
away from the mic or what's going on, but could
you let's see, is there anything that you can do

(26:15):
to come a little directly microphone?

Speaker 6 (26:20):
I'm not.

Speaker 1 (26:24):
I understand. Are you on speakerphone?

Speaker 6 (26:27):
No, I'm on a headset.

Speaker 1 (26:30):
Okay, So this is just hungry to to the United
States connection. Okay, got it.

Speaker 10 (26:36):
It's probably I've got like a.

Speaker 6 (26:38):
Thing that I'm using.

Speaker 1 (26:41):
No worries. Okay, sorry, Oh got it. You're talking to
your laptop, so you don't have like a a head
earbud or something like that.

Speaker 6 (26:50):
I have a headset, it's obviously not a very good one.

Speaker 1 (26:54):
No worries, Okay, Yeah.

Speaker 6 (26:57):
I'm trying to hold the microphone and the possible position job.

Speaker 1 (27:03):
No worries, I just I I had trouble here in
a couple of things, and I want to make sure
that I got this right. So it sounds like you're
saying that you are someone of Jewish descent, you live
in Hungary, and you're finding that people who talk about Zionism,
it's pretty consistently being used in a a very racially

(27:25):
motivated type of speech. Is is that kind of what
does that sum that up?

Speaker 7 (27:32):
Or yes?

Speaker 6 (27:34):
Yes, especially recent events maybe John Helston and.

Speaker 10 (27:43):
Yeah, yeah, and as you think he had, like English
is my first language, uh, my father come back. But
back when I uh, you know, I used to say
signs in the innuitt Sydney a Nazi Nazi capitalized and

(28:07):
you know.

Speaker 6 (28:09):
It's kind of arts and you.

Speaker 10 (28:11):
Know, because like the second let all was a long
time ago, and you should make better by now regarding the.

Speaker 1 (28:18):
Jews or any other Absolutely, So I want to ask
you a couple of questions here. So what do you
see as is there any difference to you between the
Nation of Israel and your your Jewish heritage or or
the Jewish faith.

Speaker 3 (28:41):
Well, when you say.

Speaker 6 (28:43):
The nation of Lisa I'm going to have to ask you,
are you meaning that context in modern day context?

Speaker 10 (28:51):
You know the difference between the modern day like sure.

Speaker 1 (28:57):
So yeah, let's talk about let's talk about the I
I believe I.

Speaker 6 (29:03):
Have a culture and I mm hmm, I'm myself problems.

Speaker 1 (29:13):
Yeah, I feel you on that by Rachel as well.

Speaker 10 (29:16):
Yeah, and this is one reasons why I'm going because
that way, even though I'm what I see the same
way as American.

Speaker 1 (29:31):
Yeah, so let's let's let's dive into the call a
little bit more. When I when I'm talking about the
nation of Israel, I'm specifically referring to what exists right now,
the the modern day country that was created. Okay, the

(29:53):
state of Israel is that irrevocably linked to your faith
or the religion that you come from.

Speaker 12 (30:07):
It's just regardless of religion. As a cultural identity, I
see that area as as where my ancestors comest.

Speaker 6 (30:18):
Okay, And that land leads me to many other Jews
and related people around the world. Okay, And when I
when I visit that land, I feel connected to him,
to my other human beings, connected to people of other

(30:41):
faiths and people of civil faith.

Speaker 12 (30:43):
Yeah, around me and I understand, I understand how the
country works.

Speaker 6 (30:47):
I understand I don't. I don't have a close understanding.
But I have an overview of the demographics. I have
an own views of how people interact.

Speaker 10 (30:55):
I have an other views of how people along every day, regardless.

Speaker 3 (30:59):
Of their.

Speaker 1 (31:03):
Okay, I I appreciate the context and honestly, charitably, I
would have assumed a lot of that about you. I
definitely wouldn't, you know, make negative assumptions anything that I
would ask, because I'd want to be as charitable with
you as possible. When when when someone is anti Zion

(31:25):
to you, does that mean that they are against the
State of Israel? Or do you do to you, does
it mean that they are against Jews?

Speaker 10 (31:37):
Well, you see, it's scary for me to discuss. I
would say that my fear is that it's just an.

Speaker 1 (31:49):
I hold on, I could you? Could you say that again?

Speaker 6 (31:54):
I said, my fear is it's just another form of prejudice.

Speaker 5 (31:59):
So in.

Speaker 1 (32:03):
Okay, okay, So do you think that there is any
way that someone can talk about like any bad things
that the State of Israel does without it.

Speaker 6 (32:17):
Being absolutely I mean, I do it? Okay, Well, I
don't agree with everything that I have my concerns.

Speaker 10 (32:30):
I think that I think that one of the things
that's missing is more international uh cooperation and intervention. And
I think that's really the scenflict.

Speaker 5 (32:43):
I think.

Speaker 6 (32:45):
I don't okay, I'm doing such a conflict.

Speaker 10 (32:47):
I start looking at right and wrong, and I start
looking at what systems are in place and what effects.

Speaker 1 (32:54):
Sure, so so let's let's let's let's let's let's put
this to the test here. But we got really broad
with that answer, so let me try and dial in
a little bit more. You said that one one criticize
them that you have of the State of Israel is
that they are not cooperating with other nations as much
as you want them to do that. No, okay, what

(33:18):
what is it?

Speaker 5 (33:18):
What is it?

Speaker 6 (33:21):
I'm looking more from necessarily what should be doing.

Speaker 7 (33:30):
I think.

Speaker 6 (33:33):
It's kind of not very somewhat observer and I don't
think it. I don't think much. People is well?

Speaker 5 (33:41):
Happy chance?

Speaker 1 (33:45):
Yeah, okay, how how about how about the the murder
of the Palestinian people or or what what's your take
on that? Okay, so hold on, hold on, hold on,
hold on, somebody Jewish or Raphael, I got you. I'm

(34:09):
I'm I'm trying to push through here. So you think
that the murder of Palestinian people is horrible? I agree?
Is it racist for you to say that?

Speaker 6 (34:20):
No, I say that, say that that. One thing that
really upset at the moment is that when and veble.

Speaker 10 (34:37):
Motive, Yeah, people turn around and and.

Speaker 1 (34:43):
What is got it? Yeah, that sounds awful as well.
I don't have the details on that, but that sounds
terrible as well. One does not what what what?

Speaker 5 (34:55):
What? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (34:55):
And an impact on one does not necessarily reflect on
the other that way, killing it off people terrible and
I what yeah?

Speaker 6 (35:04):
What?

Speaker 1 (35:05):
What I'm getting at here is it sounds at the
beginning of your call, it sounded like you were saying
that anybody who has criticisms of the state of Israel
is is reflecting a racist, xenophobic view. And then you
I asked you if you have a criticism of that
of the state of Israel, and you did, and so

(35:26):
I asked you, is that racist view?

Speaker 6 (35:30):
Okay?

Speaker 10 (35:31):
So to Sarisfy, we were also talking about Zionism and
my and I and the species will say and negative
class around. That's all because.

Speaker 6 (35:46):
Because of what I say when I.

Speaker 12 (35:50):
End, I see people speaking about yeah, what.

Speaker 10 (35:57):
You see or what we're thought as I I I.

Speaker 1 (36:04):
I absolutely understand, and I think that the the racist
people who are making bad arguments are really muddying the
water and making it difficult to have legitimate conversations about
the problems between you know, Israel and and in Palestine
and other surrounding countries. But I do just I wanted

(36:27):
to set the level here and we're really going along
on just the basics. Well no, I I. That's why
I'm trying to cut you off and like dial in
so that we can move, you know, move in a direction.
So Raphael, I'm trying to bring it back here. So
it sounds like you're saying you understand that valid criticisms

(36:49):
of the state of Israel can be not racist, but
in your experience, you're finding that most of the people
who are having those conversations are bringing up in racist way.

Speaker 6 (37:00):
Yes, and also its context when you.

Speaker 5 (37:06):
And you're not surrounding c.

Speaker 10 (37:09):
There's more stakeholders and obviously the Palestine as well, and
there's also all the surrounding neighbors, both the less of
the region involved or.

Speaker 8 (37:24):
You know, like yeah, so.

Speaker 6 (37:28):
Stupid long time.

Speaker 1 (37:31):
Yeah, So when you have. Like let's say you and
I are neighbors. We get into an argument and I
kicked in the nuts, right, and and and you say,
you know, to a friend, oh, Eric kicked me in
the nuts. But to but to provide valid context, I
really want you should also know that I stole fifty
bucks from him last week, Like you could bring that up.

(37:57):
But the fact is you can just say Eric kicked
me in the nuts and I'm in pain, right, It's
it's okay.

Speaker 10 (38:07):
You know, I feel like we're talking about similarly rather
than the rest examples or am I human point?

Speaker 1 (38:14):
I'm I'm I'm I'm trying to use similar examples to
show that you can talk about individual incidents and that's okay.
Not everything. Like here in the United States, that kind
of reasoning is used to shut down conversations that people
don't want to have because they're uncomfortable. Right in the

(38:36):
United States, politically, if you say X, it's it's not
uncommon for somebody to say, oh, but you're not having
the entire conversation. You need to bring up all of
these other things. You You got to start somewhere. And
where I've found that I've made the most progress is
where I meet them where they are if they want

(38:58):
to talk about this one incident then and changing the
subject is only going to sound like you don't want
to talk about the thing they want to talk about,
and it ends the conversation before it begins. And it
sucks to be in a place where your feet where
you feel like the minority, and then you need to
behave like the model minority, you know, but being biracial,

(39:18):
I'm sure you understand the same you know, same way
as me that we don't have very many choices when
it comes to that, you know it it it I
wish that we lived in a world that we that
we didn't have to do that. But people aren't going
to listen if the first thing that you respond to
is oh, but this other thing just starting out, you know,

(39:41):
listen to where they are and and meet them on
that thing. If somebody says, oh, hey, there is this
awful incident, listen to them. It costs you nothing to
agree that it's terrible, right, yeah, yeah, And then if
somebody he says something racist, then point out that one

(40:02):
racist thing, you know, but like get specific on it,
because if you get if you get super broad that way,
then what you wind up doing is shutting down conversations
and sounding like you're not willing to change minds. You're
just want to talk at people and yeah, you don't.

Speaker 6 (40:24):
Want to do I kind of avoid the conversation with.

Speaker 10 (40:29):
But I was just keep sorry a lot of time
that At the same time, the people it's easy to
talk to people who sewish advantities about.

Speaker 6 (40:49):
You know, you can do the right but like, I
don't want to create just an echo, change that for myself.

Speaker 1 (40:58):
So it sounds like some people are having real trouble
hearing you reading in the chat. I know, right, No,
that's that's that's totally okay. Do you want to try
Let's see. So you're you're calling on Colin Studio right right, okay,

(41:23):
and you're using an earbud or a headset. I'm try
I'm plugging the headset. Let's try using your just uh,
your your laptop MIC.

Speaker 6 (41:36):
I'm not sure it's gonna be any better or worse.

Speaker 1 (41:39):
You tell me, so it's a little bit better. I
think you're speaking up it, but I oh got it. Okay,
So we can't do that because there's an echo because
it's picking me up. It sounds like your your microphone
that you're using is not the one on your headset.
It sounds like you're you're using the laptop microphone instead

(41:59):
of the one on your on your headset.

Speaker 6 (42:03):
Ah, that's that.

Speaker 1 (42:06):
Yeah, you know what, if you want to adjust that,
I can pop you in the queue and take you
in about a minute.

Speaker 7 (42:13):
Is that?

Speaker 8 (42:13):
Okay?

Speaker 6 (42:16):
I can try, promises, but i'll try.

Speaker 1 (42:19):
Good luck, godspeed, oh my goodness.

Speaker 7 (42:27):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (42:27):
So I I totally understand that Rafael wants to to
be nuanced and very careful in addressing the conversation and
saying okay, well when I approach a thing, you know,
and and and and and and trying to be very
politically careful when bringing things up. But ultimately what that
means is that we don't move forward, and so addressing

(42:50):
some really really like direct points can be tough. Now
for people who are watching your word, orn't just like
why aren't you screaming at this dude? Because I, first off,
I can't make the assumption that Raphael has the same
views as you know, other people. I need to listen.

(43:12):
I need to find out what he thinks so that
I can talk to him when it comes to having
political conversations. If the first thing you want to do
is jump into the talking point that you saw on TV,
then you're making a value judgment that you want to
live out that fantasy instead of engaging with the actual person.

(43:32):
And what I want to demonstrate here is that if
you want to actually have a useful conversation that is
the goal, then you need to take the steps, and
part of that is listening, asking the question, and then
going from there. Now, I am going to take a

(43:54):
look at some of these things because it looks like
I've been getting some feedback about the quality of the show,
and I want to make sure that everything's coming in okay.
But in the meantime, let me throw the number up
four one two skepchen. That's four one two seven five
three seven four three six, Or if you want to
call on online, it is free tiny dot cc slash

(44:14):
skep gen tiny dot cz slash s k e p
g E n oh. All right, And with that said,
let's see it. Let's see how Raphael is doing?

Speaker 5 (44:31):
Right?

Speaker 1 (44:33):
Hey, any luck, I don't.

Speaker 5 (44:36):
Have good news.

Speaker 11 (44:36):
When I I try finding a better solution and calling
you next week, maybe hopefully I can listen back and and.

Speaker 8 (44:47):
Come back.

Speaker 1 (44:49):
I think that sounds good, and I will have some
more pointed questions for you. I think that just with
the way that it's coming across on the line, is
coming out really muddled, and people are having trouble hearing,
and I'm also having trouble hearing, and so what I'm
afraid of happening is me not hearing you correctly and
making a negative assumption or making you know or whatever,

(45:10):
and then completely missing the point of the conversation. So
I really.

Speaker 6 (45:15):
Appreciate that, thanks very much.

Speaker 1 (45:18):
I have read evening, Hey you too. Take care. People
ask why we do this in the morning. We do
this in the morning because there are a lot of
European callers, a lot of European listeners who want to
be a part of this conversation. And I found that
if it's the afternoon US time, it is just way
way too late for those callers and listeners.

Speaker 5 (45:41):
So this is my best.

Speaker 1 (45:44):
Attempt at trying to find that middle ground. That said,
I want to respond a bit to what I heard,
and also callers, you guys, today's the day. I think

(46:04):
that when I was a Christian growing up, supporting Israel
was contextualized very differently. We essentially saw ourselves as modern
day Jews in a way that we had that we'd

(46:29):
kind of taken over the inheritance that God had promised
to the people to the Jewish people because we got
with the program and moved on with Jesus, and that's
the way it needed to go. And so part of
the reason that it was supported as hard as it was,

(46:49):
was because we kind of were viewing ourselves in them
and trying to protect the Holy land that we in
part felt where it was ours, and so there was
so much tied up in that that we didn't really
have a lot of room for nuanced conversation. The fact

(47:10):
is is you've got a people group who are absolutely
being decimated. It's atrocious and it has gotten messy and horrible.
And I don't think that this is news to anybody.
I don't think that this is somehow a hot take.

(47:32):
But what I'm finding is that people want to shut
down a conversation about it because they're viewing it as racist.
And that was my concern with this call, is that
our valid criticisms being shut down because they're being viewed
as racist instead of just critical of the state. From

(47:54):
what I heard, that's not the case, but I could
have been hearing it wrong. But if that's not the case,
then why did why did they call right? Were they
not viewing it as racist or or are they just
interacting with a lot of racist people and that's muddying
the waters. Having those conversations I think are really important
because in the former, Raphael might be shutting down conversations

(48:20):
that he doesn't need to. And if it's the latter,
then you know, categorizing it as such can allow you
to continue to have nuanced conversations with actual people who
want to have conversations instead of being racist shits. So

(48:41):
it's kind of one, it's it's half six and one
half dozen of the other. I'm I'm at a loss
on on on where to go from there until Raphael
calls back that said we are let's see. Oh, there

(49:03):
are a lot of people who are talking about the
volume and all of that. So yeah, I hope it
gets better next week. But I'm glad that my mic
is coming in. Okay, well, y'all, it has been an hour,
and this is a slow week. Last week we had

(49:25):
more callers than we knew what to do with. This
week not so many, So with that said, I think
I might start wrapping up. I do want to thank
people who who gave super chats, so misdemeanor thank you,
and jazz Mer says, can't afford much, but hope this helps.

(49:47):
So happy to see that you're back and to catch
you live. Jazz mir Oh, thank you. I'll take one more, Chase.

Speaker 5 (50:01):
Yeah, what's up?

Speaker 1 (50:02):
Hey?

Speaker 7 (50:04):
How you doing, buddy?

Speaker 1 (50:06):
I am doing okay? I bumped up the volume from
the last caller, so loud that you are who are
coming in like beautifully clear or blowing my ears out?
So let me just bump that down a little bit.
Can you say something again?

Speaker 7 (50:22):
Yeah? Watch you bump that volume down a little bit.

Speaker 1 (50:25):
I appreciate it. All right, Chase, are you still in Idaho?

Speaker 7 (50:31):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (50:31):
I am awesome. Let me put your information here that
way I can get you in the lower third. What
did you want to talk about today?

Speaker 7 (50:39):
Street epistemology and a confidence level in Christianity being untrue?

Speaker 1 (50:46):
Ooh, all right, Chase? What are your pronouns?

Speaker 7 (50:52):
Him?

Speaker 1 (50:53):
All right, I've got you. Okay, So what about street episteology?

Speaker 7 (51:00):
Let's see. So I had this cool conversation with my
buddy Pierce Watkins has a great YouTube channel about street epistemology,
and he interviewed me about my claim that Christianity is
or the God of Christ. Well, yeah, that Christianity is
not true or the God of Christianity is not real.

(51:21):
I think was the claim the God of Christianity is
not real. And my confidence level in that claim was
ninety seven percent, So I was highly confident, but not
fully confident. You know, it could be more confident, but
just to you're familiar with street epistemology, but some of
the viewers might not be, So maybe we need to
talk about that a little.

Speaker 1 (51:41):
Bit first, Chase, you read my mind. Yeah, let me
tell you what I know.

Speaker 5 (51:48):
I know that.

Speaker 1 (51:50):
There was a book that came out. It was called
a Manual for Creating Atheists.

Speaker 8 (51:54):
It was by oh, what was his name, Peter.

Speaker 1 (52:00):
That's right, sounds like explosion and Emanuel for Creating Atheists
was really like.

Speaker 6 (52:11):
It.

Speaker 1 (52:12):
It got a lot of people's hackles up when it
came out, and it turns out that Peter Bagoshin was
kind of a dick, which is really really interesting because
outlined in Emmanuel for Creating Atheists is this idea of
street epistemology, right, epistemology. We talk about a lot on
this show. It's you know, how you know the things
that you know, And so the idea of street epistemology

(52:32):
is having casual conversations out, you know, out and about
with people about, you know, what they believe and why
and whether or not they have good reasons too. And
Bogosian was a lot more it was a lot more
intense with with the way that he interacted. But you

(52:56):
had somebody who really really had this incredible heart, Anthony Magnabasco, right.

Speaker 7 (53:06):
Yeah, Anthony Magnabosto, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:08):
Who started recording himself going on a walking trail and
just talking to people and doing that street of pistemology,
but doing it in a way that was approachable and
empathetic and had really really good feedback. You had people
who were having conversations with Anthony who were coming out
later and being like, oh my gosh, I've completely walked
away from my faith because I was asked a good

(53:29):
question that I really researched and went, hey, you know,
that was the thread that undid the sweater when you
pulled it enough. And so you have this this growth
of street epistemologists, people who are going out and having
conversations a lot like Anthony Right, I feel like the
through line is that kind of empathetic approach that you have.

(53:49):
You know that this is my percent of how confident
I am in the claim, and let's see how that
confidence changes. It's a good way of asking people how
confident they are in their beliefs of things. And if
it's one hundred percent, well that gives you an indication
of the kind of conversation you're going to have. And
if they say ninety five percent, it's a very different conversation.

(54:10):
You know, one is more likely to listen with an
open mind. And so that's my take on Street of pistemology.

Speaker 6 (54:19):
What do you guess?

Speaker 7 (54:22):
Yeah, I think that's a good summation. Yeah, it's basically,
you know, the opposite of a debate. It's a productive
way or a tool of having productive conversations in a
polite way where one person is just asking questions of
the other person and being from a neutral perspective pretty much,
you know, and not inserting their own opinions and stuff,
but just asking questions, challenging questions. Just see what someone believes,

(54:46):
why they believe it, and if those are good reasons
for holding the belief. And yeah, there's a lot of
great YouTube channels like Anthony Magnabosco is a great Street
of pistemology channel, and my buddy Pierce Watkins, and so yeah,
I find it's a great tool for for you know,
some of the questions would be, you know, like like
you said, like how confident are you? What could increase
your confidence? What could decrease your confidence? What is like

(55:10):
the best alternate explanation? Like if you were wrong, what
do you think is the best second explanation for this phenomenon,
whether it's a belief that gun control is good or
gun control is bad, or God exists or God doesn't exist,
or veganism or whatever. Yeah, I yeah, I love so

(55:32):
yeah wrapped up like what Street epistemology is. And so
then if you want, we can move into my specific claim.
Yeah absolutely, okay, cool, So yeah again, my claim was
that the God of Christianity is not real. And my
confidence level was ninety seven percent, So I could have

(55:53):
been more confident, but I was pretty confident. But I
guess I'm wondering, like do you think that that confidence
level is appropriate or too high or too low? What
would yours be and why My reason my main reasons was, uh,
the amount of contradictions in the Bible yea, and and
you know, but also you know, unscientific things and uh

(56:16):
uh you know, things to go against history. Uh and
but yeah, a lot of contradictions.

Speaker 1 (56:22):
Yeah, absolutely, So I think that I approached this in
a very similar way initially, and just as an aside Anthony,
But Anthony Mangabosco is one of the first people that
I met who was a you know, atheist celebrity when
I started getting into atheists all of the stuff, you know,

(56:43):
when I moved to Texas and and went to an
atheist community of Austin event and I was the first
person there. The second person was Anthony, and I just
like geeked out for a while doctor to him just
the sweetest guy. Was absolutely weirded out that I was
so excited to meet him. But anyway, what the position

(57:08):
that I've come to is actually changed over time. I
think that I can't give a percentage because when I
talk about the God of the Bible, like, I have
an understanding of the Bible, and when I read it,
I read it very very literally. I go across I
have a deep understanding of contradictions and things that didn't happen.

(57:28):
I also have a pretty solid understanding of the history
of the land. At that time. I did a lot
of research for months with my friend Thomas Westbrook. I
was helping him with this channel Holy kool Aid, and
we went for months, deep, deep, deep into the history
of the conquest of Canaan and so you know, numbers, kings, judges,

(57:54):
even even further back into you know, exit the Exodus.
I've I've got a really really solid understanding of those
and so I can say, oh, my understanding of the
Bible that God absolutely does not exist. I'm highly, highly confident.
I'll never say one hundred percent because I feel like
you can't walk away from that, you know, but that

(58:14):
that is what I have said in the past. But
I've met so many Christians who have so many interesting
views of Christianity, and I think that Christianity as a
term is so fluid. It changes so much. In fact,
even you know, in broad in broad brush strokes, the

(58:34):
way Christians view themselves has changed in the last thirty years,
forty years, fifty years. It's it's consistent, it's consistently kind
of a living. Well, it's it's it's a living people group,
you know, and it's it's changing with the values of
the people. And so because of that, I often wait
until I hear what their definition is before I give
a confidence level at all.

Speaker 7 (58:57):
Okay, what if we were to and that's that's a
good answer, I hear you. What if we were to
say a biblical like literal interpretation of the Bible that
that God does not exist?

Speaker 1 (59:11):
What would your confidence levels?

Speaker 7 (59:15):
Oh? Okay, so that's interesting and what would your.

Speaker 1 (59:21):
Yeah, because I have because if you're asking for a
literal interpretation, you're using my literal interpretation. And so the
way that I read it, there are just impossibilities throughout
and things that have been proven to be wrong. You
know that we can show that what like I'll go
back to Genesis and Exodus. Right, let's start from the beginning.

(59:44):
In Genesis, it says that there is one man and
one woman. Our understanding of evolution shows that that's not
the case. If you don't have that, then you don't
have sin. That's where sin enters. The equation in sin
is the entire reason that the New Testament was important,
or at least the the the books that concern you know, Jesus,
you know, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John and then then
later Paul writing all had to do with, you know,

(01:00:08):
absolution of sin and being redeemed into Heaven. Without sin,
you don't have that. Without Adam and Eve, you don't
have sin. And we know there was never a time
where that was the case. Just with the way that
our biology came about moving forward, it just best reflects

(01:00:29):
a people telling the story about themselves, then it does
an accurate historical account of the way things happened. What
you would expect from the exodus from Egypt, if a
huge people group were to leave, they would leave expectedly
stuff along the way that would show that they were there.

(01:00:52):
And that's just not the case. We don't see evidence
of a of a broad exodus out of Egypt into Canaan.
We all so do have historic evidence of the the
Jewish people actually having come from Canaan. You know that
that they were Canaanites and that they weren't stomped out

(01:01:13):
the way that it's described, you know, with with Joshua,
you know, coming through so out the gate. You know,
all of the top all of the stories about God
giving those commandments because we don't have a historic evidence
for that. I think that's wrong. I don't think we
have biological evidence for that. I don't think that we
have evidence for sin, you know. And and then just

(01:01:38):
moving on and on and on.

Speaker 8 (01:01:39):
I think that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:41):
Point by point, my understanding of the Bible would show
that no, it's just impossible.

Speaker 7 (01:01:47):
Okay. And if you're at one hundred percent it, does
that mean that there's nothing they could increase your confidence
that the God of the Bible is not real?

Speaker 1 (01:02:01):
I'm no, I'm pretty pretty I'm there, I'm not And yeah,
go ahead, okay.

Speaker 7 (01:02:13):
And and does that also mean that there's that Are
you saying that you're not open minded to any possibility
of being wrong?

Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
Oh, I'm absolutely open minded to it. But the thing is,
you would need to hit a lot of things before
really even hitting the gut question. You know, you would
need to answer the biology thing. You would need to
show evidence of assault. You would need to show evidence
of a heaven or a hell or sin or any
of those things interacting. You would need to show evidence

(01:02:42):
of of intercessory prayer working. You know, if if that's
in the equation right, you need to show that it's
possible and then determine that it's probable and that that
would shake those things for me. But the where, that's
where you do.

Speaker 7 (01:03:02):
Yeah, that's what I was going to ask. You already
answered the question, which was going to be, like what
could move you down in your confidence level? Even if
it's a big hypothetical, you know, hard to think about
because you know, you've got such a strong list. I
think you know, and so, uh, let's see, I'm kind
of running street of pistmology on you now.

Speaker 1 (01:03:23):
So, Chase, I have a question.

Speaker 8 (01:03:24):
I have a question for you.

Speaker 1 (01:03:27):
How important does existence? And can something exist as a
concept and not as a literal, physical, physical thing?

Speaker 7 (01:03:35):
I think so? Yeah, Like I mean, a concept would
probably just be something up a non physical like manifestation
from a physical thing, the mind brain thing.

Speaker 1 (01:03:48):
Okay, I get well, no, no, it's okay. I'm I'm
I'm trying to I'm going to take you somewhere that's
going to make you severely uncomfortable. Okay, Okay, we have
another collar, but I want to have fun with this
for a little bit. Okay, So I'm talking about I
don't know, characters and books, right, what did Johnny Tremaine exist?

Speaker 7 (01:04:13):
I don't know who that is, but they you know,
figurative sense, but not in a literal like you can
reach out and touch the dude or whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:04:21):
Okay, but how about Tom Sawyer, Harry Potter, same.

Speaker 7 (01:04:28):
Or well, unless it's I don't know if that was
based on real story or not.

Speaker 1 (01:04:33):
I but even if it's based, the character is fiction.
So you would agree that that non physical things can
exist as concepts, right.

Speaker 7 (01:04:42):
It sounds like it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:43):
Yeah, Okay, what if I define something to exist?

Speaker 7 (01:04:49):
To find something to exist?

Speaker 1 (01:04:51):
So I say, you know this cell phone that I'm
holding in my hand. I'm sure you're you know there's
a delay, But I'm holding a cell phone in my hand,
and I'm defining it as blue about the size of
my hand, and it exists. Would you say this you're
a description of it?

Speaker 7 (01:05:11):
Probably yeah, I'll take in your word on it. Yet
I said I'm not watching the stream.

Speaker 1 (01:05:15):
Cool, Okay, So I'm going to define a god that
is maximally powerful and exists.

Speaker 7 (01:05:24):
Hey, you can do that all you want.

Speaker 1 (01:05:26):
Don't make it true well by definition?

Speaker 5 (01:05:29):
It does.

Speaker 7 (01:05:30):
Well by definition? SMS physician, That don't mean nothing to me.
You need to like give me better evidence for it,
you know.

Speaker 5 (01:05:39):
Well, so.

Speaker 1 (01:05:43):
What I'm doing is I'm giving you a piece of
what's in William Lane Craig's version of the column cosmological argument,
He talks about God having certain properties, one of those
properties being existence. What if I told in existence is
being used as a descriptive word, right, in the same
way that something is blue or so big or weighs

(01:06:04):
so much? Existing being a an adjective. Are you following still?

Speaker 7 (01:06:11):
Yeah, but I'm just seeing like s couldn't this apply
to the unicorn or something?

Speaker 5 (01:06:15):
Yep?

Speaker 1 (01:06:15):
Absolutely, Here's how you get out of it. If somebody
pins you on this, here's how you get out of it.

Speaker 8 (01:06:22):
Are you ready?

Speaker 1 (01:06:25):
Existence is not an adjective.

Speaker 7 (01:06:29):
Yeah, that sounds about right too, Like it just is
a thing. It's more of a noun.

Speaker 1 (01:06:36):
Actually, no, no, it's not. People treat it like a verb,
but it's not. So how much do you know about
like computer programming or or you know how games are made? No?

Speaker 8 (01:06:49):
Okay, So.

Speaker 1 (01:06:52):
When you think about existence, existence has to be there
before you can get any descriptors on it.

Speaker 8 (01:07:00):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:07:00):
It is the framework that things are put on. Right,
Try to describe something that doesn't exist, You can't you
at least need to have a concept and then you
can describe the concept. But if it is absolutely nothing,
if there is no existence in any way, there's no
way to put that that that those descriptors onto it.

Speaker 5 (01:07:19):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:07:19):
If I'm describing an apple, I can describe it as green,
or red, sour, firm, soft, you know, on the tree, rotten,
you know, all of these different descriptors for the apple.
But if you close your eyes and you imagine just
a wire frame that underneath that apple, and you imagine

(01:07:39):
that it's that framework that you're able to put all
of those descriptors on, that framework is existence. And because
of that, it is not an adjective. It's not a verb,
it's not a noun, but it is a prerequisite to
all of those things. And because of that, you can
never use existence as a descriptor. It's just a a missub.

(01:08:01):
It's miscategorizing the word.

Speaker 7 (01:08:07):
Ok.

Speaker 1 (01:08:09):
We were talking about So it ties back in because
when you're talking about whether or not you're confident that
God exists, I could say that God exists, but it
exists as a concept.

Speaker 7 (01:08:24):
Sure. Yeah, I wasn't really talking about that so much.
I was talking about, like, you know, concretely, existing, you know,
a more substantial way.

Speaker 1 (01:08:33):
Okay, But my definition of a God that I I
swear you guys, I'm I'm not going to stick with
this for too much longer, but I'm having way too
much fun. I'm putting on the hat here, Chase. So
my definition of God is that God is a maximum being.
That God is the most of anything you can imagine.
That's how I define that God. And once you agree

(01:08:55):
that existence is better than non existence.

Speaker 7 (01:09:01):
I find all kinds of weirdness with this line of questioning,
and I don't know how to answer it.

Speaker 1 (01:09:06):
No worries. These are all apologetics that I've These are
all apologetic apologizes that are bounced up against. And with this,
the next thing you go is, okay, well, the one
that doesn't exist is a lesser one. The one that
I believe in is the one that is better, and
that one is one that would exist. And so by definition,

(01:09:28):
a maximum being has to exist.

Speaker 7 (01:09:31):
Okay, Well, can I answer you one last question? Then
let's get to another.

Speaker 8 (01:09:34):
Caller, Chase?

Speaker 1 (01:09:35):
Please, I'm I'm, I'm I'm. I feel like I'm doing
just intense navel gazing at the moment.

Speaker 7 (01:09:40):
Hit me, It's all good. I was just going back
a bit, like I'm wondering. You know, you had given
a lot of reasons for why you are at like
one hundred percent, and you gave those same reasons, you know,
if if those were to be undone for some reason,
it would decrease your confidence that the God is not
re the literal god of the Bible. And I'm just

(01:10:04):
wondering if those things weren't true, or rather if they were.
I don't know how to say this, but what would
be the best alternate explanation, Like what would be the
explanation for how you had been wrong? If you were wrong,
which I don't think you are, and it's a big if,
but if you were wrong about all those things, how
would that be the case?

Speaker 1 (01:10:25):
Yeah, so almost everything that you can imagine is more
likely than that God, which is funny. I think that
the god concept that I understand is one that has
so many different abilities, right, not only the ability to
be everywhere all at once, to read your mind, to
know your future, to know your past, and everything like

(01:10:48):
that for everyone all of the time. Even a God
that knew less, was slightly less powerful is infinitely more
likely because each of those things are just insane. So
if you had a God that could only create universes
and then never interact and just poofed out of existence,
maybe it was such a big effort that that God

(01:11:08):
died in the process of making the universe. I think
that is way more likely because that God does not
have to have the ability to survive the instantiation of
the universe. But also, you know all of the other
attributes that we ascribed to him, Right, what about a
God that was interventionary but was a dick. I think

(01:11:28):
that would be way more likely because that would explain
a whole lot more about the world around us. But
that would take the Yeah, that would take the loving
part out. Really, any version of a God with just
any of those pieces taken out as infinitely more.

Speaker 7 (01:11:43):
Likely, I guess. I guess what I was trying to
get at, like, is if we were incorrect or had
been deceived, what would that look like? Would it be
that and that Christianity was true? Does that mean that
maybe somehow like demons got into the literature and then
twisted the science to see this all or what? You know?

Speaker 1 (01:12:04):
Yeah, so so that's that that would be.

Speaker 8 (01:12:10):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:12:11):
One second, we don't have to keep going no, no, no, no,
I I I I have the answer for you. It's
not Kant what is his name?

Speaker 7 (01:12:27):
Or like, what if we like the cart rene Card.

Speaker 1 (01:12:30):
Thank you, Dickhart Dick Cart's Demon?

Speaker 5 (01:12:36):
Yeah?

Speaker 7 (01:12:37):
Or how do we know that we weren't born yesterday
and these are all false memories and the god is
actually true? You know? Or or you know?

Speaker 1 (01:12:45):
I I would say that that if I was totally
wrong about all of it, and all of that did exist,
then I would like discards demon, I think would be
a good place to be. Like, oh, well, then I
don't have access to reality.

Speaker 7 (01:13:05):
Do you want to summarize Renee the Card's demon real quick? Sure?

Speaker 1 (01:13:09):
And then I'm gonna move on to the next call. Yeah,
so Reneea Kart He famously said, you know, I think
therefore I am. He was the person who said I'm
gonna apply skepticism, And the reason he wanted to do
this is because he wanted to prove skepticism wrong in
the first place. And you wanted to show that that

(01:13:29):
that that you can build up with certainty, because skepticism
was was going the other direction, right, and skepticism was
essentially saying that if you ask why over and over again,
you're gonna get to a point where you say, I
don't know, and Reneeda Kurt wanted to show that no,
you can build a solid foundation and you can have
whys all the way down. And so he started questioning

(01:13:51):
his faculties. Okay, what if i'm what if I'm in
a dream and my understanding of the world around me
is actually just a figment of my imagination. Well, if
that's the case, then I know that at least colors
are ill and all of that, because those concepts come
from somewhere. And then he went, okay, well what.

Speaker 5 (01:14:06):
If you know?

Speaker 1 (01:14:08):
And just kind of going back and back and back
and back and back, and finally got to the point
where I said, okay, what if I don't have any
kind of connection to reality at all? That there was
a demon that was confounding my senses and preventing me
from understanding anything. Site, smeuth a sound, all of them
were just projections from this demon. I don't have any
access to reality. Well, if anything, the fact that I

(01:14:32):
am thinking gives me at least full confidence that I exist.
Coggyty go some right, I think, therefore I am. And
then where he went from there is stupid, but it's
a conversation for another day. The demon that he describes,
you know, is one that would confound his ability to
rationally interact with the world. And I think that if

(01:14:55):
you were to say, Eric, you were wrong about all
of it, that miracles happen every day, then I would
I would have to say that I'm obviously not able
to interact with the world, because in everything that I've
evaluated that I would have been the case. So yeah,
I'd say to cart Steven.

Speaker 7 (01:15:16):
Yeah, okay, well I really appreciate the conversation.

Speaker 1 (01:15:19):
Me too, Thank you, Chase. I appreciate it all right.

Speaker 5 (01:15:22):
So ye.

Speaker 1 (01:15:26):
V if they were sitting next to me, would have
turned and walked away. And I don't feel bad about
that at all. Okay, let's talk to Manny in Florida. Manny,
you're live with Eric. How's it gone?

Speaker 3 (01:15:47):
H see Eric?

Speaker 6 (01:15:48):
See I put balls in his mouth?

Speaker 1 (01:15:55):
Well that's nice. Let's try again. Sober in California, your
own skeptic generation. How's it going.

Speaker 5 (01:16:05):
Yeah, what's up?

Speaker 7 (01:16:06):
Hey?

Speaker 1 (01:16:07):
So you're you're following up after a troll caller. I
appreciate you calling in.

Speaker 7 (01:16:13):
Uh so S O. B. E.

Speaker 1 (01:16:15):
R is the name and you're calling from California. He
him pronounced that right.

Speaker 3 (01:16:21):
SLB three R, but he works.

Speaker 2 (01:16:23):
Oh okay, that's fine.

Speaker 1 (01:16:26):
I'm not on the video game right now, gotcha? Okay,
So what do you want to talk about?

Speaker 3 (01:16:35):
So basically I was kind of following up with one
of the earlier callers, like about the Israel conflict and
make me think about a question I had, and I
was like, man, I wish I had somebody to like talk.

Speaker 5 (01:16:46):
To through this way.

Speaker 3 (01:16:48):
It's about like determining the truth from like there were
reports of current affairs.

Speaker 1 (01:16:54):
Yeah, absolutely, and.

Speaker 3 (01:16:56):
That's one part of it, and then like the next
part is like just hard choices that you have to
make after.

Speaker 1 (01:17:05):
So that is a really really tough question and definitely
not one that I can answer in one call. But
I think that media literacy is something that we all
need to work on all really really bad. I think
the first thing to do is look for where the
other opinions are. You know, if something is really really

(01:17:26):
important to you, then don't just look for things that
agree with you. Look for things that disagree with you,
and then figure out whether or not you know they
have a good basis.

Speaker 3 (01:17:39):
No, no, no, go ahead, No, I definitely agree with that.
Like I've been like watching these kind of skeptic shows
ever since like COVID happened. I don't know, Like my
YouTube fee was just.

Speaker 5 (01:17:50):
Like hey you like this.

Speaker 8 (01:17:53):
We're all right, but yeah, yeah, yeah, pretty good.

Speaker 3 (01:17:57):
But let's say somebody we're in a PUCU to where
they had access to let's say, sensitive sensitive information from like.

Speaker 8 (01:18:09):
People who would know Okay, you know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (01:18:14):
Yeah, But but that's that's been demonstrated to not always
be the truth either, you know what I mean, Like
there's there's even propaganda and official official like uh information.

Speaker 10 (01:18:31):
Got it?

Speaker 8 (01:18:31):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (01:18:32):
So so can I can I question you about truth here?
Do you think it's possible to actually get the truth
about anything?

Speaker 3 (01:18:44):
Like like what is what is the whole truth?

Speaker 5 (01:18:46):
Probably not?

Speaker 8 (01:18:47):
Okay, so like probably not everything.

Speaker 3 (01:18:52):
And that's that's like the hard part about it, right
because like say that you're working for some government, right
and you know that their interest is one way or another. Yeah,
and of course the information that they provide or the
intel that they receive coincides with the things that would benefit.

Speaker 1 (01:19:13):
Them, right, Yeah, go ahead, Like how do you how
do you parse that?

Speaker 3 (01:19:21):
It's hard to determine it. Yeah, how do you parse
it from like because it's something that you know for
sure or true and something like well shit.

Speaker 1 (01:19:30):
Yeah, So I think first off, contextualizing it is important.
You know, having the right mindset is going to help,
and it's definitely going to get rid of some depression
and some frustration. So let me give you a really
really easy example. Okay, okay, So imagine you're standing on
the street corner of kind of a nice city. You know,

(01:19:55):
in the middle of the town. There's a coffee shop
on the corner. You know, people are having caught fee,
you know, out outside in little tables. There are people
crossing the street, and there's a car accident happens right
in the middle of the road. Everyone sees it. If
you were to interview those people, those people are going
to have different recollections of what happened. That's just how

(01:20:21):
people's brains work. It happens because where there's an absence
of information, our brain will create information. So if you
don't think if you didn't see a thing, a couple
hours later, you'll be convinced that you did. You know,
we fill those things in And so I don't think
that those people would necessarily be motivated to lie, but

(01:20:42):
that doesn't mean that they actually are giving an accurate
account of the truth.

Speaker 3 (01:20:46):
Okay, And that's the funny thing is I've heard this
before and it didn't feel like it applies, But like
for some reason, when you're telling it to me, now
I can make it apply.

Speaker 1 (01:20:56):
Yeah, well so I and I'll apply it directly. You
don't even need to be motivated to put spin on things, right.
It's not just governments, it's people. And when we understand
that everyone is looking through things through the filter of
their of their brain, their mind, their lived experience, then

(01:21:18):
you need to at a certain point you kind of
give up on the idea of having some absolute truth. Instead,
we understand that everything is colored by the people who
are telling us the stories. And if we recognize that,
then that'll help you be a little more skeptical and
not go, I know that this one thing is true,
but you can have a high degree of confidence that
is true, right, or that it's likely closer to you know,

(01:21:42):
being accurately described.

Speaker 5 (01:21:44):
And so.

Speaker 1 (01:21:46):
When I say, you know, why.

Speaker 3 (01:21:50):
No, not just just internally, because like, so I've worked
with people who are like before, and like I've used
the same kind of like talking points with them to
get them to like kind of understand, and it's.

Speaker 1 (01:22:05):
Just like it's, oh, dude, I now here. The killing
thing is when we talk about epistemology right based you
know from the last call, how you know what you know?
You need to reapply that over and over and over
and over again, because we don't naturally just apply it
in every part of our lives. When it comes to

(01:22:26):
us being able to figure out what's true in the news,
looking up different accounts and finding all of those different
viewpoints and all of that will help give you a
more well rounded understanding of the thing. And for those
people who are absolutely screaming, you know, from the tops
of the buildings, it will help you contextualize and understand, Okay,

(01:22:47):
this person is motivated by this. This person is motivated
by that, and you can go from there. Everything is
shades of grad And so if you're living in a
world where you're sad that you don't have that black
and white it, the best that you're going to get
is gray. It's always going to.

Speaker 7 (01:23:04):
Be that way.

Speaker 8 (01:23:05):
It's okay, So is either stay sad or get over.

Speaker 1 (01:23:08):
Yeah, that's essentially it. I mean like that's kind of
what I did with death, honestly, you know, uh, stay
sad or get over it.

Speaker 7 (01:23:20):
I like that.

Speaker 1 (01:23:21):
That is a much more concise way of putting it.

Speaker 5 (01:23:25):
I get that.

Speaker 8 (01:23:26):
Yeah, for me, death was like an easy thing that it.

Speaker 1 (01:23:32):
Damn, I'm so jealous. Oh my gosh. See we're all
built differently. We're all built differently.

Speaker 3 (01:23:43):
Well, thanks for answering my question. I don't know if
you if you have time to get to the other
part or whatever, but.

Speaker 7 (01:23:49):
Why not.

Speaker 1 (01:23:49):
I've got one more caller and I can go on
for half hour's okay.

Speaker 5 (01:23:55):
So let's.

Speaker 3 (01:24:01):
So, my brother is in the military, right, Okay, And
like he kinda he's not a he's not a Republican
or nothing, you know what I'm saying. Like he's not
a conservative. He's I'm honestly pretty fucking leftist, you know
what I mean.

Speaker 8 (01:24:17):
Okay, But but yeah, there's always a butt right.

Speaker 3 (01:24:22):
Yeah, he's been in, he's been there for a while,
and he knows like like at this point, he kind
of like doesn't agree with some of the ship that's
going on, Okay, but he knows like to just leave
right now. First off, you know, it's the contract. You
can't just leave right most of the time, Like there's ways,
but most of the times you can't just leave. And
then he's guys, like you know, he's got families to

(01:24:44):
take care of and all this other stuff. And it's
like I can understand, I can empathize with the struggle
of like between making a you know, a decision that
you think that's a right decision, but it's also not
going to stop anything. Like, so say he does get out,
like it doesn't change shit, like not for the people

(01:25:04):
in Palestina or any other place that we're occupying right now. Yeah,
you know, like unless you can also somehow influence that
change throughout, like on a wider scale, some kind of way.

Speaker 5 (01:25:18):
Yeah, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:25:20):
So I do, but I think that the way you're
approaching it is I'm I'm gonna do it again.

Speaker 8 (01:25:31):
Yeah, okay, So.

Speaker 1 (01:25:36):
I understand the want to to view it through that perspective,
but it's not being compassionate to yourself, and it's not
your brother's not being very compassionate to himself either. He
never had that ability, and so treating it as well,
I don't have that ability kind of infers that. But
but I should, you know, So you know, I think

(01:26:00):
that some self compassion is important, you know, and and understanding.
You know, you understand why your brother's in the situation
that he's in, and because of that, you're not you're
not judging him a bad person, but in his capacity,
he could be doing really bad things, you know. And
that's just the shades of Berry that we live in.

(01:26:22):
It's the exact same conversation that I've had about Acab.

Speaker 8 (01:26:26):
Exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:26:27):
Yeah, there's a lot of parallel with that.

Speaker 1 (01:26:29):
Yeah, it is, you know what, I I think you
can be the sweetest person, but when you're putting on
the shield, I think that you're the The job is
bastard by profession, right, And so.

Speaker 3 (01:26:43):
I know good people that are you know what I mean,
people generally.

Speaker 8 (01:26:47):
Absolutely not going to be a good cop.

Speaker 1 (01:26:50):
No, because there are I don't think there are. Like
that's the profession itself.

Speaker 3 (01:26:53):
Has made the institution itself, exactly, And.

Speaker 1 (01:26:56):
I think I I I think that's also true, you know,
I I but giving yourself the room to be compassionate
and go, hey, you know what, there's a situation you're in.
This is why you're in, and I understand it. You
never had the ability to change the world. You never
had the ability to make those overarching issues. You're part
of a system that institutionally has created, you know, this

(01:27:17):
this place where you're frustrated about things in the world
that you'll never actually have the ability to change. Yeah,
what it means is maybe maybe your brother can be
proud of the good things that he did. Maybe he
made some people's lives better, and that can be worth it,
and that can be enough. Maybe that's amazing, But then

(01:27:39):
that can be enough. And even if none of that
ever happened, the fact that he's supporting his family and
the people that he loves and is coming home to
them can be enough.

Speaker 3 (01:27:48):
So that's what I try to tell him. But it
was just like, yeah, it just sounds like a fairy tale,
Like you.

Speaker 1 (01:27:53):
Know what I mean, Like, dude, all of it is
fairy tales. We live in a world that doesn't have
intrinsic meaning. If all of it is meaningless, then we
get to create the meaning for ourselves. And if that's
the meaning that he's creating, then either he's going to
make it for himself that he's going to fail no
matter what because he can't control the world, or he's

(01:28:14):
gonna go Hey, you know what my goal is to
leave wherever I am a better place than I found it,
even a little bit. That kind of success is fantastic
because it's in his power and that's enough.

Speaker 6 (01:28:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (01:28:30):
Yeah, honestly, because I mean we talk a lot.

Speaker 3 (01:28:36):
Yeah, I'm prior service too, so like I get a
lot of what he's like talking about. So yeah, I appreciate.

Speaker 1 (01:28:44):
Yeah, Hey, absolutely, thank you for calling in.

Speaker 8 (01:28:48):
Good care. All right.

Speaker 1 (01:28:54):
If you have strong opinions about what was just said,
call next week. I'm here for it. In the mean time,
Will is our last caller for the day. Will in Tennessee.
You're live on Skeptic Generation. How's it going, my dude?

Speaker 7 (01:29:07):
What's that are you?

Speaker 5 (01:29:11):
I wanted?

Speaker 9 (01:29:11):
I was like fascinated when the other call you said
that you were navel gazing.

Speaker 5 (01:29:17):
I just love those of cost topics.

Speaker 1 (01:29:19):
I know some people V.

Speaker 7 (01:29:23):
I know.

Speaker 9 (01:29:23):
Okay, Also, you have not said since you've been back
that I can tell you have not said the words
that's my Jimmy James.

Speaker 1 (01:29:35):
So I getting in navel gazing is absolutely my Jamie Jams.
Absolutely I I I forgot about that. Okay, So what
did you want to talk about?

Speaker 9 (01:29:50):
I just want to know, like if there's any sort
of easily digestible media that explains like the teleological argument
and the ontological argument, because I I've tried to YouTube
it and it's all been just dance material that I
don't understand.

Speaker 1 (01:30:09):
Yeah, okay, so I can give you some some basics here, okay, Okay.
So from what I understand, the teleological to the teleological
and ontological argument both came from Saint Thomas Aquinas or

(01:30:30):
he's the one who put it in a way in
his ways that really kind of took off. So let
me start with the teleological argument. I I it's been
so long, I want to make sure I get it right.
So I believe the teleological argument, that's the watch that's

(01:30:51):
the watchmaker argument, right.

Speaker 8 (01:30:55):
The again, sorry no worries.

Speaker 1 (01:30:57):
The teleological that's the watchmaker argument.

Speaker 5 (01:31:01):
I believe so honestly, I don't fully know.

Speaker 8 (01:31:04):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:31:05):
So the teleological argument essentially says, we live in a
world that looks like it was created. Therefore it's more
likely that it was created than it wasn't. Okay, I
believe that's it. If I'm wrong, please in the comments
tell me. But I'm gonna go into the watchmaker argument
just in case that's correct. So the watchmaker argument is

(01:31:27):
it puts you in a scenario that says, you know,
you're walking down a beach, you see in the sand,
there's a watch. You pick it up, and you intuitively
understand that the watch was made, that the watch didn't
just come there naturally, even though you don't have evidence
of that watch having been made in the same way
that we live in a world that is fine tuned
for the existence of life, and that fine tuning is

(01:31:49):
evidence of creator that fine tuned it that way that
way we could. And so they bring up things. They
bring up things like, oh, if gravity was any different,
if we were this much further away from ourselves in
the orbit of the sun or whatever, that that is
that the kind of like is that ringing any bells
for you?

Speaker 9 (01:32:09):
Yes, I am familiar with the watchmaker argument. I didn't
know that that's what the teiological argument was.

Speaker 1 (01:32:15):
It's my not understanding, No, no worries which fine tuning.
So that's essentially that The response, the funniest one that
I ever read and easiest to understand one was was
written by Terry Pratchett. No, no, no, no, it wasn't
Terry Pratchett. It was a Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

(01:32:37):
I believe Douglas Douglas. I think it was Douglas Adams.
Have you heard the pond story?

Speaker 5 (01:32:44):
Yeah, like this pond is made for me.

Speaker 1 (01:32:47):
Yeah, yeah, this this pond awakens one day and looks
and goes, oh, this hole that I'm in is exactly
the shape of me, which absolutely shows that I'm here
on purpose, and and and it's perfect. And as the
sun rises and the puddle starts to evaporate, you know,
it sees that in every step along the way it

(01:33:08):
is perfectly sized to exactly where it's at. Because of
that is evidence that you know, it's there purposefully in
some way, all the way until it evaporates, completely convinced
that it was all part of some greater plan.

Speaker 8 (01:33:21):
The fact is, I.

Speaker 1 (01:33:25):
We live, we have a sample size of one when
it comes to life on a planet, really, and because
of that, we don't have a way to determine how
likely life is. It could be incredibly likely, and it
could potentially happen a ton of different ways, and so
the idea that oh well it is just way, you know,

(01:33:45):
it is impossible. You know, the odds are impossible that
it could be you know, random or chance. I think
it's just it's it's not it's not understanding that we
have that sample size one. A couple of things that

(01:34:08):
I would have you heard of, The Texas sharpshooter fallacy.
The Texas sharpshooter.

Speaker 5 (01:34:15):
Fallacy, I don't believe.

Speaker 8 (01:34:18):
So, okay, so.

Speaker 1 (01:34:21):
I'll give you one more and then we'll go onto
the other piece that you want to talk about. Okay, Yeah,
So the Texas sharpshooter fallacy is they just imagine you're
you're driving through the country and you see, uh, you know,
you're seeing barns and all of that, right, there's tons
and tons of fields, and you you're driving and you
see a barn that is just covered in bull's eyes,

(01:34:41):
and you're like, what the hell is going on? You
kind of you to drive up a little closer, and
you see that right in the center of the bull's
eye is an arrow on every single bull's eye that's
all over this polkaatted barn. And you're like, holy crap,
this marksman, Like what the I need to know more
about this? So you knock on the door and you say, hey,
how did you do this. How did you get these

(01:35:01):
perfect bull's eyes on every single one? Oh, I can
show you no problem. So they walk out, they knock
an arrow, they they they fire it at the barn,
and then they go into the barn and they get
can of paint and they draw the bull's eye around
the arrow and the the The idea there is that

(01:35:24):
you're working your way back from something that you're sure of.
You know, it's it's well, yeah right, I think that
flies here as well, that you're you're looking at the
fact that we're alive and are assuming that it's perfectly
impossible any other way, and you just don't have any
evidence of that.

Speaker 5 (01:35:43):
Okay, yeah, that's that's huge.

Speaker 1 (01:35:45):
Yeah. Sure. And then the ontological argument, Uh, the ontological argument,
I believe is the one that says that God is
necessary for all things to exist? Right that that that

(01:36:06):
that I believe. It's the first mover argument, I think,
or it's it's it's there so everything has a cause,
and if you go back through causation, there has to
have been a first mover. There has has to have
been a first cause.

Speaker 5 (01:36:27):
Ah. Yes, yeah, this is all being digested now.

Speaker 1 (01:36:33):
So the way I think about ontological is ontology is
the study of what exists, and and you know, you're
you're basically saying that God is necessary for existence. So
so that's where I go from there. I don't know

(01:36:53):
if you want me to go into the details on
that one, but that there are so many different places
where it breaks down. There's an assumption that all things
have to have had a cause. There's there's an assumption
that anything works the way that we think it is
the way that we think it does. If all matter

(01:37:14):
in the universe is condensed into a tiny spec you
know that anything we understand would make any sense. It's
just built on assumptions, on assumptions, on assumptions. And and
while it would be nice and feel good to have
to to use that causal link to go backwards, I
don't think we're justified in doing that because we don't

(01:37:37):
we don't have that understanding. I mean, all you need
to do is come up with any other potential reason
for a universe having been created at all. You know,
I think Matt Dilla Hunty came up with what about
universe farting pixies? Yeah, so Russell's teapot is a little

(01:38:03):
bit different, But I get where you're going with it.
The idea is that in that case, the universe farting
pixie would be the God that they're describing. A Yeah,
and it makes them uncomfortable because they have this assumption
of what that God is. But the fact is that

(01:38:23):
you're getting really really deistic at that point, and really, ultimately,
when it comes to all of really big arguments, none
of them are arguments for the existence of a biblical God.
Only have a creator God.

Speaker 8 (01:38:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (01:38:36):
So that has made everything digestible for me, and I
really appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (01:38:41):
Oh, I was corrected. Sorry, ontological argument. By definition, God
is a being which none greater can be imagined. That's
the ontological Oh I got that wrong. Okay, Sorry, Eric Ketzer,
thank you for correcting me. A being that necessarily exists
in reality is greater than of being that does not
necessarily exist. It's something that I was talking about with

(01:39:03):
our our Street epistemology color.

Speaker 8 (01:39:09):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:39:09):
So honestly, Richard Dawkins gave me the best version of it.
He he's the one who said, okay, you know, imagine
a maximally great burrito, you know, or maximally spicy burrito,
maximally smelly thing what what When you're talking about concepts

(01:39:33):
of maximally, they're not necessarily it's it just it falls
apart as soon as it leaves the tiny sphere that
it's in, and it's it's it's weird mind games that
try to define a god into existence. But uh yeah,

(01:39:54):
if somebody wants to talk about a maximal god, talk
about a maximal burrito.

Speaker 5 (01:39:59):
Yeah you know.

Speaker 8 (01:40:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:40:02):
Anyway, Well, thank you for this. I really needed this.

Speaker 5 (01:40:08):
Don't be afraid to say, Timmy Dams, I.

Speaker 1 (01:40:10):
Won't forget thank you for thank you for sticking through
this episode. It's been a weird one.

Speaker 5 (01:40:16):
Absolute thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:40:19):
Oh I got one more okay, quickly, Chris in the Hello,
I know, I know, I said I was going going
to take one more color, but you wanted to know
what my thought was on on Judaism, Christianity, and the
Muslim faith. Like, but help me out here, okay.

Speaker 13 (01:40:43):
So so often I speak to people from all three legends.
I mean, to me, it seems like the Abrahamic goods
of both the Toa, the Bible, and the Quran, they
all seem like one goes. However, I repeatedly run into
be people who insest it say per goods, and I'm

(01:41:03):
wondering what your thoughts are on it.

Speaker 1 (01:41:06):
My thoughts are it doesn't matter. My opinion does not matter.
So if you're talking to somebody and want to have
a useful conversation, ask them. I don't believe it anyway,
It's not my mythology, So why am I trying to
gate keep they're a I don't believe in it. But essentially,

(01:41:32):
if somebody says that, they think that if if they're
non Trinitarian, they say, oh, well, the Father, Son, holy ghosts,
those are all separate things. Or they go, oh well,
you know, the God of Abraham and Isaac in Taurrah
is different from the god that's described in in the Quran.
Then that's the opinion of the person you're talking to.

(01:41:54):
You really need to make a decision whether or not
you interact, want to interact with them or not, and
if you want to interact with them, where they are
meet and where they're at.

Speaker 5 (01:42:03):
Fair enough.

Speaker 13 (01:42:05):
It's good to talk to you again. I called quite
a few times in the past, and I'm glad to
you know, hear from you all again, and it's good
to know the show is back.

Speaker 7 (01:42:15):
On the air.

Speaker 1 (01:42:16):
I'm happy to be back, and I do recognize your voice,
and I'm glad that you called back. I'm glad you
stuck around, and I'm really really excited. I don't know
if you're here at the beginning of the episode, but
I quit my job. I'm diving into just making content
and creating stuff with other YouTubers and just enjoying life
a little bit more. And I'm excited for what that brings.
So this is definitely you're You're going to say more

(01:42:38):
of me.

Speaker 5 (01:42:40):
That's amazing.

Speaker 13 (01:42:41):
I hadn't heard that, but that's really good.

Speaker 8 (01:42:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:42:44):
Well, I'm lucky enough to have a partner who's helping me,
help and support me in the meantime because it's a
big leap, but I'm doing it.

Speaker 6 (01:42:54):
Awesome.

Speaker 7 (01:42:54):
How is Veer?

Speaker 13 (01:42:55):
They doing okay these days.

Speaker 1 (01:42:57):
They're doing great. Oh my gosh.

Speaker 7 (01:43:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:43:01):
So they had a really positive surgery recently.

Speaker 6 (01:43:08):
That was a.

Speaker 1 (01:43:10):
Gender confirmation surgery that you can look them up on
Instagram if you want to see posts about that. But
everything went well and we're really really excited about that.
They are on a board of directors for a nonprofit
they are advising with a company. They are working with

(01:43:32):
a publishing company. Uh, they are so freaking busy, and
I know, and they're in so many places at once.
When I wanted to start skepching up again, They're like,
I don't have time, and I totally understand it. I
I I want to be as productive as the's been.
But yeah, they're they're doing great.

Speaker 13 (01:43:55):
That's great. And yeah, I hope that you have a
good deal and I hope that. Yeah, the show was
back on air for a long time.

Speaker 1 (01:44:03):
Me too, Me too, Christopher, thank you for calling in.
I appreciate you. This was a nice This was a
nice We have a good one.

Speaker 3 (01:44:13):
You two.

Speaker 1 (01:44:17):
What a sweetheart. Of course, that's what I want to
That's fantastic. All right, y'all. So I've done a lot
of work to do today. I am going to be
making sure that the podcast, the back podcast cast episodes
go out and again as an apology, I'm going to
be making it the free version accessible to every level

(01:44:37):
of patron and Patreon as a as an apology for that,
and we're going to be going from there. I am
going to hop into the skeption in Discord to do
an after show talk to people, hang out a little
bit before ending the day. But I hope the rest
of you have a wonderful rest of your day. Thank
you for joining me. I've been Eric Murphy. I'm glad

(01:45:00):
we had this talk.

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Shaking it up! | Skeptic Generation | Episode 4 Season 3

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Shaking it up! | Skeptic Generation | Episode 4 Season 3