We STILL Need To Talk | Skeptic Generation | Episode 1 Season 3 - Skeptic Generation

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:32):
Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm Eric Murphy. This is Skeptic
Generation and we still need to talk. Hey, everybody, I am back.
It has been a year, andI am so glad to be back.
So for everybody who has waited,everybody who sent messages over the last
year, well wishes on Facebook,on Instagram, on Twitter, just pms

(00:54):
and and just thank you. Foreverybody who stayed active on the Skepchen discord,
thank you, and for all ofyou who are joining apropos of a
couple days notice, I had decidedwe were going to be doing skep Gen
starting at the beginning of the year. And you know what, I think
I've got a couple things to answerfor before we really get started. So

(01:15):
before I start diving into explanations andtalking about things and where the hell is
V I'm going to give the newnumber to the show because I want to
get callers lined up. So thenew number for the show is four one
two skep Gen. Don't use thattiny dot CC link. I just tried

(01:36):
it and it is not working,So use call in to four one two
skep Gen. That's four one twoseven five three seven four three six again
four one two skep gen four onetwo seven five three seven four three six.
Eventually I'll get that memorized. Ijust don't haven't memorized yet. Okay.

(01:57):
So I've got so many things totalk about, and I can talk
about show stuff or I can talkabout personal stuff first, and I feel
like people are interested in the personal, so I'm going to go into the
personal first. V and I movedafter taking our hiatus from the show.
I had my first weekend after that, and I had not had a Sunday

(02:17):
off really without having to find asub and V and I hadn't had a
Sunday off together in years, andit was amazing. About two months after
the show ended in February, myself, along with the entire marketing department for
the company and got laid off.And then the next month we moved to

(02:38):
Portland. V and I were planningon our move from Austin to Portland.
You could probably see that the imagesand the intro have changed from Austin to
Portland, and it's amazing here.After getting out here, I had a
rough start of it, wound upgetting a job and it's okay. But
long story short, I didn't wantto start this show again as a cash

(03:05):
crab. I could have, butwe worked really hard on this, you
know. We just even though Ineeded the money, I didn't want to
take advantage of the goodwill that we'dbuilt up with this audience with you,
and so we didn't. A coupleof months ago, I thought, you

(03:30):
know, it costs a lot toget skep Gen up and going, but
it doesn't cost as much if Ido recorded content. So I tried my
hand at some recorded content. Ioffered it up to patrons and didn't go
so well, and so I waslike, Okay, I'm just gonna hold
off until I can do skep Gen. And so I realized after January came
and went and I didn't do theshow that I just needed to jump in.

(03:52):
It just needs to happen. Andso here we are. And amazingly,
as soon as I said that Iwas ready to come back, incredible
volunteers were just so excited. Isay ours, because they're there's still VS.
Two even though V's doing their thing. Anyway, I'll get to that.
We moved out here and the companywe would wear four went down completely.

(04:14):
Uh V and I had both lostour jobs, and I don't want
to offer too much personal information,but we're doing okay, and V is
busy. V is so busy.They're doing their job, they're doing side
stuff. They're on the board ofa of a of a nonprofit and they're
just doing their own thing. Andso when I said I wanted to do

(04:36):
skep gen, V said, that'sincredible. I don't have the bandwidth.
So we are still together, Weare in love. Everything is good vas
in the other room. But otherthan times that I can cajole them into
coming and joining me, every oncein a while, I'm going to be
the primary host. I'm also liftinga couple of restrictions before, for when

(05:00):
we were in Austin, we hadready access to a bunch of different YouTubers,
and in Portland we don't. Andbecause of that, I'm not going
to be able to rely on havingregular in studio guests, and so for
that reason, I'm going to openup to remote guests. So I will
be arranging that, and I alreadyhave a couple of really cool YouTubers that

(05:24):
you will recognize lined up to guestwith me on the show, So stay
tuned for that. Let's see whatelse the Patreon. I see people in
the comments already saying, hey,I've been a patron this entire time.
I want to speak to that,because when we left, we said that
we were going to start a Patreontire called ongoing or Lifelong Skeptic, and

(05:48):
that was going to be a onedollar a month we would charge and just
have this kind of ongoing thing tokeep patrons while we were on hiatus.
But V and I both agreed thatif we weren't giving you content that was
worth your money in your time,we didn't feel comfortable charging you. That's
why you never got charged. Isincerely appreciate it. When I tried putting

(06:13):
out the private video, the videolong form kind of you know, philosophy
content, I charged patrons, andit turns out that a lot of people
forgot that they had patreons. Andso for that reason, this episode is
not getting charged. I want togive patrons time to hop off if they

(06:34):
can no longer afford it, whateveryour situation is. This morning I restarted
the Patreon tears, and I amthinking everybody who stayed as active patrons the
entire time we were gone, andthey're going to be in the outro,
so stay tuned for that. Ifyou want to check out our Patreon,

(06:54):
go to patreon dot com slash SkepticGeneration. Our links our tiny dot CC
links are mostly down, so ifyou want to become a patron, go
to patreon dot com slash Skeptic Generation. It includes a whole bunch of little
goodies, including ad free podcast,which by the way, is back up
AD free version of the show,and early access to things that we're putting

(07:19):
out. So that cool. Let'ssee what else. As I was getting
ready, I saw that our merchdidn't go down. It's a class of
twenty twenty two. So if youwere lucky enough to get some Skeptic Generation
merge from twenty twenty two, you'rethe only ones because it's I took it
down. So they are now collectibles. And I am going to be putting

(07:42):
up stuff for this year, butgive me time. If if I had
to wait until I got everything ready, I never would have started, and
this late start as evidence of that. So I'm just glad to be here
when it comes to doing the podcastand when it comes to doing Collins video
and everything that it costs to makethe show happen and then I'll be done

(08:03):
with money. I mentioned on socialmedia that there are a lot of licenses
and a lot of things to makethis happen. I said, if you
want to support immediately, you canbuy me a coffee. It is I
don't even have the link. It'sbuy me a coffee, skeptic generation.

(08:24):
Either way, I want to thankDuncan, Chris, Lucas and a Meat.
Between the four of you sending mesome cash, you were able to
pay for a third, over athird of what it took to make this
episode happen. So bottom of myheart, thank you. That made life
a whole lot easier. Okay,that said, I'm sure there are lots

(08:46):
of other things I need to talkabout and I just don't have them on
me. So with that said,how about we move into our first guest.
Oh, and we're going to beI'm going to be thinking patrons at
the end of the show, soor not sorry, patrons are going to
be in the outro. I'm goingto be thinking super chats at the end
of the show. So if youwant me to respond to a specific question

(09:09):
or the thing that you have tosay, pop that in super chat and
I'll be able to see it,I'll pop up on my screen and I
can answer that at the end ofthe show. Okay, holy moly,
we actually have a caller. SoI am going to take our first caller
because it is just me. Ido not have their name typed in here,

(09:30):
so be patient with me. Butour first call is with Javier in
South Carolina. Javier, you arelive on Skeptic Generation. Hello. Hello,
happy to be happy to see youback, Hope. Oh I am,
I'm happy to be back. Thankyou for calling in my goodness I

(09:50):
was. I'm I'm happy and surprisedto get an actual caller. So let
me get your name here, bamXavier. What did you want to talk
about today? Alrighty, well,well, basically I wanted to discuss something

(10:13):
that's it's it's based on I guessthe current state where I'm at. Okay,
I called a couple of times beforethe before the hiatus, and I
guess it. Just sorry, Ineed to I'm not that good at articulating.
But no worries. I am goingto turn up your audio a little
bit because it's a little bit low. But uh, if you are away

(10:35):
from your mic, if you canspeak just a little bit louder. I'm
gonna try and bump it up onmy end as well. Okay, all
right, sorry I'm talking on myphone. But anyway, I didn't give
many options because the tiny dot CClink went down, so like, you're
so good, go for it.Okay. So back when I was,
when I was calling in before thehiatus, I was really really into this

(10:56):
sort of discussion, you know,talking about skepticism, religion and broader I
guess societal trends and morality and thatkind of thing. But ever since then
and I've been kind of just sortof stepping away from it. Not because
I don't care. I still findthis sort of discussion to be entertaining,
fulfilling, important, et cetera.But I just kind of wanted, well,

(11:20):
I guess, to put it bluntly, just want to chill out a
little about it and just deal withyeah, and deal with life as it
as it came. And that mademe. That made me think I'm not
here to like get on a stopbox and start saying, oh, everyone
should back off and chill out oranything like that. But I'm curious,
since I imagine you have much moreexperience in the realm of this sort of

(11:43):
of these topics than I do whatthe broader I guess implications in your opinion
would be if people in general startedsort of chilling out and backing off.
Well, Javier, first, tostart out, it says in the notes
that you are agnostic, but youstill consider yourself a believer. Is that
is that the case? Yeah,I guess, I guess maybe you could

(12:07):
call that progress of a sort.It's not that necessarily my goal. It's
not like my goal is necessarily tocome out of religion or anything like that.
I genuinely want to want to believe. I want to be as secure
as I can in terms of whatI believe or do not believe. That
right, there is progress. Ilove that. Okay, So so can
I just like just give you acouple of affirmations right just before we continue.

(12:33):
So, Javier, the first thingis, I don't consider leaving your
faith progress simply because I've met alot of people who left their faith for
really bad reasons. You know,maybe they moved into some other worse you
know, cult or something you know, or because uh, they just may
have had really unsound reasoning for whythey have deconverted. And so the fact

(12:58):
that you want to have good reasonsfor what you believe is, in my
opinion, progress. I love that. Cool that said, when you say
that, you know, what arethe implications of everyone backing off? Do
you mean people leaving each other aloneas far as what they believe? Or
do you mean like people like mehaving conversations with believers or you having questions

(13:24):
and asking either way, like giveme a little bit more info. Okay,
So what I mean generally by thatis, well, the general I
guess sort of losing interest isn't theright word, but those ideas and those
discussions becoming much more secondary, tertiary, et cetera in their lives, so

(13:48):
it would. So I'm sorry,no, no, no, no,
I didn't want to cut you off, but I think that you are at
a place that I saw a lot, especially when I was over at the
ACA. There are people who hadbeen in this kind of non believer space
for a really long time and they'rejust like, it's solved, it's over.
People aren't having this conversation anymore,it doesn't matter. And the fact

(14:09):
is you're not having this conversation asmuch. But there are people who are
in this process of deconversion or deconstructionof their religion, and it is a
very very lonely experience. And todayis the first day for a lot of
people. And that's why shows likethis, even though for me it's old

(14:33):
hat when it comes to, youknow, the philosophical arguments, and for
me, it's done to the pointthat I can have them in a really,
really intelligible way. For others,it really is their first time.
And it's not uncommon for these showsto have someone in the comments under every
episode going this was my first episode. Thank you. So what are the
implications of you moving on? CanI respond to that? Or does that

(14:58):
kind of take away from the questionyou were asking? Go ahead, Okay,
the implications of you moving on isyou've got other stuff you want to
think about. So for me,when I realized I didn't believe it was,
it was a big moment for me. You know, I thought that

(15:20):
I needed to know, and Iwas having these these really in depth discussions
with with religious you know, leadersin my community. You know, I
was talking to a rabbi who wasthe rabbi of a of a fraternity house
of my friend. But he wasa good rabbi and he was there to

(15:41):
kind of be there for them.I was talking to a Christian pastor,
I was talking to a Taoist.I spoke to a number of people who
were kind of into really wooy stuff. And it was one day when I
was talking to this rabbi and Iwas just so fervent and like, it's
not just about faith, like whatis grounding your faith? And he looked

(16:04):
at me and he goes, Eric, if you don't believe, then just
don't believe. I was like,that's an option. I hadn't even considered
it. And right after that watershedmoment, I just stopped thinking about it
for years, you know, puttingit down. I call it apatheism.

(16:26):
You know, when you just don'tcare if it becomes so much that or
so tiring or so boring. Thereare lots of things to do, and
you not being involved in the conversationdoesn't have a bad ethical implication for you.
It doesn't because there are people joiningthe conversation all the time. I
think that there's a benefit to establishingyourself as someone who can create community and

(16:52):
creating a place for people to notfeel alone. But you don't carry the
burden of that. We all do, and so putting that responsibility in your
self isn't frend of you or toanybody else. If you if it's time
to step away for a bit,step away for a bit, become the
best version of you. That's reallywhat's most important anyway. You know,

(17:15):
Yeah, I see what you mean. I uh, I understand what you
what you mean. It's certainly isa well, yeah, I get I
don't really know what what's the waythere? I think you covered it enough
in a way. I agree withone of the things. I guess,
in my opinion at least one ofthe things that helped me sort of just
step away from it, even thoughI don't know how, I guess epistemologically

(17:38):
sound this is. It's basically theknowledge that it's something that I'm sure many
many current and former religious people havesaid and heard before. But it's that
well, I guess I'll find outsomeday, you know. I So that's
the only point that I absolutely disagree, because I think for me, when

(17:59):
I die, I stop finding outeverything. You know, good point good,
Yeah, Like this is for me, this is this is the only
chance I'm going to get to learnas much about the world as I can.
But because it is my one shot. I do have the opportunity to
choose what I'm going to do.You have the choice, you know,

(18:22):
you have the choice to be asinvolved as you want to be because it
brings you joy and satisfaction. Becauseepistemically it helps ground you. And it
sounds like you've been on this journeyfor long enough that you were probably better
positioned than most. And that's incredible. It's okay to put it down.
Maybe maybe if you put it downnow, you'll have the compassion or energy

(18:45):
to come back at some point ifit brings you joy again. But don't
burn out, you know, Isee, yeah, I certainly I do
understand. I'm not quite fond ofburnout. I I see it. I
mean, have you I took ayear off, right, like I stepped
away for a year. Did youknow that this show was getting I was

(19:07):
checking the download numbers on our podcast, and for each episode that I'm looking
at, each of them are overtwenty thousand downloads. Like we went up
by over a thousand subscribers. Wehit eighteen thousand subscribers in the middle of
last month. When we're putting onany shows, this show is making a

(19:30):
lot of progress. It was growingpretty dang fast, and you got it,
yeah, to decide, you know, it was worth the burnout.
So you're talking to somebody who did, who stepped away and has come back
refreshed, and maybe maybe in ayear, maybe less, maybe more,
you'll be refreshed too, but kindof out to yourself. Yeah, I

(19:55):
see what you mean to be,to be honest, in that time.
I'm not saying that I like Ipurpose fully lined it up with with your
hiatus, but that period of timelike kind of like halfway through, or
rather a couple of months ago,when I decided, you know, I'm
stepping back, just just going tochill out for a bit. Yeah.
And then yeah, and then andthen yesterday, I you know, look
scrolling through YouTube and I see onmy recommended feed, Hey, that looks

(20:17):
uh that looks like a skeptic generationis gonna have a live stream tomorrow.
It's be the perfect time for meto hop back and pray. Nice.
I love that. Yeah. Well, I I wish you the best,
and I hope that you know,as you have questions or as you work
your way along it, feel freeto call in. I sincerely appreciate you
calling today because I was not expectingcallers. I was very very afraid that

(20:41):
this was going to be a shortepisode because I was going to run out
of things to say, and thiswas actually a meaningful conversation. So I
sincerely appreciate it. Thank you,I here, thank you for thank you
for having me. It's a it'sbeen great. I hope I hope to
be calling back, you know whatas a maybe as much as I can
would be the wrong phrase. Butyou know, as soon as I got
a question, I think we'll havea good conversation. Just call in and

(21:03):
hash it out. I love thatsounds good. I look forward to it.
Take care youtobe, bye bye bye. That was awesome. Oh my
gosh. All right, so II got to say, we've got about
two hundred viewers, which is waymore than I thought we'd have today,

(21:25):
which is cool for a first episodeback heck, yeah, today is the
day that if you are a believer, if you I had somebody in the
comments saying, uh is Taoism wooie? I'm sorry, no, it is
not wooey. I after Daoism,I looked into the whole you know,

(21:48):
chakra vibes, you know auras drugstype stuff, and that is what I
consider wooy. But if you havea question like that, if you have
something that you believe and you wantto talk about, why today is the
day. If there's somebody you knowthat wants to have that conversation, today

(22:10):
is the day because I need thecallers, So I would sincerely appreciate that.
In the meantime, I'm going tomove on to our next caller.
And this caller is actually a modfor us, and I appreciate that.
Bri. You are on Skeptic Generation. Hi, Hello, Hello, how

(22:37):
is it going? What did youwant to talk about today? Oh?
It's going great. And I mean, I'm just so glad to have my
favorite birthday present back because the firstepisode aired on my birthday. I did
not realize. I didn't remember that. Yeah cool, Yeah, So thank

(22:59):
you for coming back. It's awesometo have you back. Oh give me
something to do appreciate it. Wasthere anything specific that you wanted to talk
about, any topics? Well,I did find my first gray hairs this
last week. Okay. It wasso exciting and I was like, yay,

(23:22):
okay, have you and b hadany moments like that lately? So
I don't know if the light ispicking it up. But I have a
lot of them. I have alot of them since getting involved in YouTube.
Actually it really kind of exploded.But I'm loving it. It is
an affirmation that I am growing,and I do think I'm growing wiser as

(23:49):
time goes by. So I'm proudof it. And it is definitely a
badge of honor. I've been wantingto be a salt and pepper person ever
since I was in high school.So I'm loving it. But yeah,
I I I if there are ifthere aren't any other like philosophical or religious
topics, was there anything else Icould come up with something? Uh,

(24:15):
my partner wanted me to come upwith some kind of crazy conspiracy theory like
I have been gone. No worries, I sincerely like when we get into
creating straw men, you know,representing versions of of that just aren't ourselves,

(24:37):
it gets it gets kind of ickyfor me. Yeah that's fair.
Yeah, because those people aren't thereto defend themselves, and they have a
better idea of what they believe andwhy, and so misrepresenting them can be
can be crummy. So no worriesabout that. But thank you for me

(24:57):
right, and thank you to everyoneelse. Your name is definitely in the
outro as a thank you hopping inand you know, being an organizer for
mods and just being one of thefirst people to welcome me back has sincerely
appreciated. Thank you, bre Yeah, it's great to see you back and

(25:21):
have a great first show. Appreciateit. I will, I think,
take care all right, yep,okay, okay, So let's see here
we are already halfway through the show, and I am really really surprised.

(25:42):
Let's see, so Brie was thelast. Oh, we've got somebody else
calling in if you want to talk, if you don't want this to be
a short episode. I know thatwe have not had a whole lot of
time to get the info out there. But the phone number is for one
two Skepchen for one two seven fivethree seven four three six. It looks

(26:03):
like the tiny dot CC link isnot working, but if you call into
four one two seven five three sevenfour three six or four one two skeep
Gen, you can talk to metoday. In the meantime. I yeah,
I'm open, So uh, letme talk a little bit here about

(26:29):
my plans for skep Gen because Ido have a couple of really cool things
that I'm really excited about. Sofirst off, like I said, I've
got some really really cool guests whoare going to be coming on in the
next few weeks, so it's notjust going to be me all of the
time. I really really need thatbecause if I need to go to the
bathroom, there's no one who's gonnafill that air. So that's important.

(26:55):
Also, you will see that Ihave a new set. This is real,
and I have an entire space thatyou cannot see that's right over there
that I want to fill. Mygoal eventually is to sit at a table
with a camera further away like Iused to on talking than back in the

(27:17):
day. I really really enjoyed beingpart of a studio set. It felt
a lot less like a zoom calland felt more like a show, and
I really really enjoyed that. It'sgoing to take time to do. I've
got a lot to build up,but that is what is coming up as
far as the growth of the show. Also obviously in time as we get

(27:41):
patrons and we get support and adsense. I don't know if y'all know
this, but if you put ina super chat or if you see an
ad. It takes about a monthand a half to two months for me
to receive that, so it's goingto take time. But as it does,
I'm gonna be building that out andI'm hoping to have a really really
cool set and I'm really excited aboutthat. V and I'm not going to

(28:03):
dox myself, but V and Idid move into a house with a basement,
and I have never lived in ahouse with a basement. It's a
nice one and it is the bestkind of sound like deadener. You know,
motorcycles can drive by outside ambulances andit will not interrupt this. When
it comes to a recording space,either you can spend one hundred grand building

(28:25):
a room within a room so thatyou can have a really good recording,
you know, quiet space, orif you're lucky enough to have a basement,
it does most of the work foryou. And I'm really really happy
about that. Oh my goodness.Okay, oh good We've got a couple
of callers calling in, but firstI obviously want to talk to the love

(28:48):
of my life. V. Youare live Let's keptic generation. How's it
going? What? Oh my god? I thought I was ordering a pizza.
Thanks? Thanks, v appreciate it. How are you feeling? It
feels like riding a bike. Iwas not expecting to be able to jump

(29:11):
back into the this version of methis quickly. I was afraid that I
was going to blink. And itfeels really right, you know, good,
good, Well. I'm seeing lotsof people, lots of friendly faces
in the in the live chat,I got to talk to the cumul Rarity

(29:33):
on the spunge just now. SoI'm feeling all the love from here.
Yay, I love that. Ithink what I do have a question?
Sure, what's up? My questionfor you, Eric Murphy of Skeptic Generation
is we did it. Wa fuck. You don't need to be scared.

(29:56):
My question is how do you envisionsSkeptic Generation changing now that you are back
after a year, Because I happento have some back end knowledge about how
you've changed as a person and yourviews on the world, and I suspect
that they might be a little differentthan what we were doing before. So

(30:18):
I'm curious when you think about whatthis news season of Skeptic Generation is going
to be, what do you envisionwhat might be a little bit different.
I love that, Thank you soa couple of things have happened. One
of them is I have healed afteryears and years of doing Collin shows without

(30:41):
a real time to take a breakor a hiatus, I was burning out,
and you know, I felt likeI had burned out twice in the
time of you know, just justdoing everything. And I feel like there's
a dip in quality of content becausepeople can tell, you know, and
even when you're trying your best,if it is something that is taking a

(31:03):
lot from you, it is it'snot as fun and it's not as entertaining.
And I feel like I've had enoughtime to actually take a break and
bring actual energy to it and actualpassion for it that I think is going
to be awesome. I did talkabout what I want to do when it
comes to creating a set, butin the meantime, in the short term,
I have a couple of ideas,and I'm kind of floating things around

(31:27):
because I don't know what people wantto see. Like I know, a
couple of months ago, you knowthat I tried to put out some recorded
philosophy content and it didn't go oversuper well. But I am feeling really
rusty when it comes to my abilityto engage in these con in this content.

(31:48):
So one of the things that I'mthinking about is potentially live streaming,
watching videos back and being like,oh that was really good or oh I
messed that up. I know thatI started a channel a while back called
Murphy's Law where I went back overcontent and I feel like me needing to
brush up on everything. It couldbe fun if people wanted to do that

(32:14):
with me. So that's something thatI'm tossing around. Yeah. Right,
we'll see what people say and ifthat's something that they're interested in. And
then there's another thing that I wasthinking about doing and I have blanked on
it V but you know what itis? Don't you possibly surprise me?

(32:36):
What's that? No? I don'tremember. I was hoping you'd tell me.
I will figure it out. Imean, there are a number of
things, you know, I reallythought people would be interested in standalone philosophy
videos. But it could be theway I edited it, it could be
it could be needing specific things.But what I know is that people you

(32:59):
know who want to watch skep genwant to get this content when they watch
skip gen. So well, we'llsee from there. But yeah, what
about in terms of engaging with people. Are you going to be like,
what's what's your Have you changed inyour style at all? Is this something
that people are going to be ableto tune into for Macdown's Are you excited

(33:22):
to get into arguments? Are youexcited to what's what's happening infernally here?
I've become a little bit more extremewhen it comes to like economic views on
the world. Oh, extreme economicviews. Hold on to your heads,

(33:42):
people, good, thanks me,thank you, thank you appreciate that.
No. I I I've definitely becomea lot more anti cop actually because I
had to take a security job fora little while and I was just like,
holy crap, our systems broken.And I'll probably engage in that a

(34:02):
little bit more. I have notsoftened terribly. I don't think. I
don't know, you know, afterso after so long, I don't know
if I'm going to be more laissezfair about things, or if you know,
I'm going to come back ready tobite somebody's I don't know. I
think I think time's going to tell, but I'm kind of open to seeing

(34:24):
which direction it goes. But beingsomebody who lives with me, what do
you expect because I know I've gota couple of colors on the line,
but I'm actually really interested. Ibet people would like to know. What
do you think is going to happen? Oh man, Well, I think
that there's going to be. Myhope is that you get to expand the

(34:49):
kinds of things that you talk about, and you get to talk about those
at the same level of energy andpassion that you've been talking about religious and
soosophical stuff with. And I knowthat that's always going to be central,
but there are a lot of thingsto be skeptical about. And I'm excited
to see what kinds of callers getattracted to the show now that we're in

(35:09):
a different place and starting up again. And I'm excited to see kind of
how you're going to be handling allthat. I me too. If you're
if if callers are watching, youknow, people are watching and going,
oh, Eric's gonna get really intopolitics. No, not that one.
I I not because I don't havestrong opinions, but because I don't think

(35:35):
that I have engaged with it enoughto have nuanced ones that I can,
you know, engage with at thelevel of detail and confidence that I am.
You know, when it comes tophilosophy and stuff. But yeah,
we're time's going to tell I'm reallyinterested to talk to you after the show
and find out what specifically you're thinkingabout, because other than me saying,

(35:58):
uh, you know, I've becomemore anti cop and that kind of stuff,
like I I'm interested. But thatsaid, vat you. Well,
it's been it's been fun to beon the other side of this, and
I'll be watching and rooting for you. I sincerely appreciate it. You have
effectively helped me get some some thoughtsout that I forgot to bring up.

(36:22):
I really appreciate your voice and yoursupport. I know that people miss you.
I'm seeing in the comments people aremissing you like crazy. I love
you, and I will see youafter the show. Sounds good them dead
Thanks? Ah, okay, thatfeels good. I really like that.

(36:43):
And I got a whole bunch ofcallers, which is fantastic. So why
don't I move into talking to ournext person. I have Steve in Ohio.
Steve, you are on Skeptic Generation. Cool. Hi, Hey,
how are you. I'm doing well? Thank you for calling in? So

(37:06):
yeah, thanks for having me goahead. Oh, I'm just you're coming
in nice and loud and clear,and the last two callers were really quiet.
So I'm just adjusting your volume alittle bit and you should be good.
Now, what did you want totalk about today? So first,
real quick, just get out ofthe way. Longtime follower, first time
caller. Glad to have you back. I've been waiting for when you guys

(37:29):
come back in aw. I reallyappreciate that. Thank you. I am
so surprised that people remembered and areexcited for this to be back. It
is surreal and it is filling meup like confidence. Why is in a
way that I have deflated in thelast few months. So I'm like,

(37:50):
really really happy about that, Steve, what did you want to talk about?
So ironically you can back at aboutthe perfect time. Uh. So,
my wife is was a pagan.She is very rapidly losing her faith,
as she described that she took apeek behind the curtain and now cannot

(38:13):
get away from the conclusion that thereis more probable than not nothing after the
lights go on, and she isgoing into the presses spirals pretty much every
night. Yeah. I'm helping herthe best I can, with like the
Philosters, like Alan Watts, thatI went into when I first started going

(38:34):
through it. Sure, but it'sonly doing so much for I don't I
don't know what to do. Isyour wife watching or is this video that
you're going to show her? I'mnot sure if I'm gonna shower, I
might recommend. I don't know howshe'll feel about disclosing this. I totally
understood, you know, without herbeing the one to talk about it.

(38:58):
But I'm just I want Yeah.So the first thing that has helped in
my experience is affirmation. Not onlyis it something that I personally remember and
was very depressed about, but itfeels like every major philosopher has talked about

(39:19):
this too. You know, youhave this this feeling Socrates, right,
you know, going back to theGreek philosophers, he would ask people why,
why? Why is this? Why? You know, trying to get
to the underpinnings of of why wedo what we do and not trying to
rely on tradition or custom or anythinglike that. And when you get to
the bottom of it, just likea two year old and you say why

(39:42):
enough, you get to I don'tknow, and and that that that I
don't know at the bottom of prettymuch everything it's called apoia and it is
the sinking feeling. It's this,it causes this this it it it does

(40:07):
not feel good. And I thinkpart of that is something that I've experienced
in a lot of people experienced whenit comes to you know, change,
having a fundamental shift in the waythat you understand the world. And then
when it comes to like the Frenchphilosophers and you're you know, when you're
talking about nihilism and responses to nihilismlike existentialism, and just like that whole

(40:34):
group there there was another word,and it is when the bottom falls out
from under your your understanding of moralsand ethics, right, because if you've
lived your whole life and you thinkthat a really you know, a god
is watching your every move and it'sgoing to spank you, you know,
if you do something wrong, andthen that god just goes away. There's

(40:59):
this free fall that that happens becauseit's underpinning so many things in your life.
And one of those big things ishow do we treat each other?
And how do we treat ourselves?And that's called annome, you know,
and so and so A N O. M I. E. Transhumanist psych
says absurdism. You're absolutely right.That is a Camu's response to the nihilism

(41:23):
question, and and it's it's it'simportant to recognize and affirm first off that
this is something that we have struggledwith for a really, really really long
time. And moving forward from there, my suggestion is to frame this as

(41:53):
an opportunity. So I I don'tgo in for start on everything. You
know, I don't go in onexistentialism too much, but I feel like
that's a really good place to jumpin start. Said that, if no
one else is giving you, ifthere's not some outside so I was giving

(42:14):
you purpose, make one decide whatpurpose you're going to fill. Maybe maybe
it's religion, maybe it's something else, but deciding what you're living for,
you know, what has that thatthat purpose, that that value for you.

(42:36):
I feel like when I have takenthat advice and succeeded on the things
that I have you know, gonefor and and and strove for, it
was way more rewarding because I wasthe one who set that goal for myself
and I didn't feel like I waschecking off somebody else's checklist. I wasn't
living on somebody else's schedule. ButI was creating the schedule for myself,

(42:58):
and when I achieved on it,it felt like I h it's it's hard
to describe, but it is awonderful feeling, you know. I I
think that this feeling of despair whenit comes to losing your understanding of the
world by by deconstructing her faith,is entirely reasonable. It's entirely understandable.

(43:24):
I've I've heard people say it.I've even said it as, you know,
breaking your leg to sell you acrutch. Right when the crutch goes
away, you're like, my legwas broken, but that's only because you
were told that, you know,telling you you're sick to sell you the
medicine. The fact is, it'skind of funny described it as she is

(43:47):
now lost like one of her lowerlegs and people are trying to give her
a prosthetic. She's upset that shecan't get her leg back. Absolutely,
And part of it is it's goingto take a long time to really like

(44:07):
come to terms with the fact thatthat is a leg that you were told
you were missing, but you neveryou never had, you know what I
mean? Yeah, Okay, yeah, And it's it's really really tough to
do and it hurts, and soyou know, affirming that yeah it hurts,

(44:29):
I think is really really important becausefor a whole lot of us,
going through this alone sucks, andhaving you there with her, I think
is really awesome. So I'm I'mlooking forward to to the direction she takes,
and it doesn't need to be thesame direction that you went, you

(44:50):
know, but be there for herwhen it comes to well, of course
you're you're a partner. I'm notgonna but when it comes to having good
reasons for what you believe, youknow what I mean. This is this
is a time of of you know, epistemic upset, and now is a
really really good time to fill outthat toolbox that she's can be using for

(45:14):
the rest of her life. SoI'm excited for you. I'm excited for
her. I know it's scary andit's sad and all of that, but
there's no growth without pain, notreally without pain. There's nothing that's going
to push us forward into whatever thenext great version of ourselves is. It
sucks and I hate it and Iwish I could grow without it, but
it feels like that is just amajor part. And so that pain is

(45:36):
the the the growth, the beginningof this next great person, this next
great version of this person that youlove. So that's exciting and I hope
it works out for you. Yeah. Luckily she's never struggled. But even
when she was deeply into paganism withhaving her own purpose and her own control.

(45:58):
Right now, it's just the ahurdle of she's not okay. But
I think this is helped give mesome new tools to use. So thank
you so much. Yeah, Iso some things that have helped me.
Is one of them that that Iremind myself is I was not sad that

(46:20):
I didn't exist before I was born. You know, there's that, and
just I know that this is yourwife. But there is a book right
off screen that I'm gonna grab onesecond. Oh heck, yeah, it's
a kid's book. So when itcomes to like fear of death and not

(46:42):
existing, there's a book. There'san Elephant and Piggy book called We Are
in a Book where Piggy realizes thatthey're in a book and that book is
going to end, and Piggy isfreaking the fuck out. Oh my gosh.
Yeah, right, it's it's it'sthis this existentialist nightmare and the way

(47:06):
that elephant responds is really beautiful.He says, Well, then this is
our time to celebrate while we can. Let's do all the things we want
to do beforehand. You know.Oh, I'm going to dive into this.
Thank you so much. Absolutely,it is like a for two to
three minute read. But it's reallyreally sweet and I loved it so much
that I bought it and I've gotit on the shelf next to me,
so I know I could come upwith a whole bunch of other things.

(47:30):
But feel free to call back andhave an awesome rest of your day.
Yeah, thank you so much foragain letting me on here. Thank you,
Steve, Take care, take care. What a sweetheart. Oh my
gosh, I loved that. Andwe've got more people. Okay, so

(47:53):
let's dive in and talk to Danin Canada. Yuh, Dan, you
are on the skeptic generation. Hello, Hello, thanks for taking my call.
Thank you for calling in first episodeback, the fact that you caught

(48:13):
that the stream is going on,that you wanted to talk. I love
it, so thank you. Itsays in the comments that you are agnostic,
that you are living in Canada,and that you're you're dealing with some
ship. What's going on? So, first of all, welcome back.
I thought the show was dead,so this is amazing. I needed the

(48:37):
time to to heal a bit andto to rest and work on Eric off
camera a bit, and I'm sohappy to be back. So thank you.
I'm sorry. Go ahead, No, no, it's it's so important,

(48:58):
man, Like, not enough peopletalk about taking time off. So
yeah, I'm glad you recovered enoughto come back. Appreciate it. But
the scary thing is talking to myother YouTube friends. They when they talk
to me about their burnout, Myfirst response now is you should stop doing
it for a little while. Sohopefully that doesn't leave breathing. H Like,

(49:23):
try breathing for a second. Well, it's it's difficult, man,
It is super super difficult when you'reyou know, in this this this need
to to create content like that.But anyway, I keep interrupting you.
Go ahead, No, it's goodman, it's a conversation. My question

(49:45):
to you, I guess a littlebit for your backstory because I don't know,
well, but you were a religiousperson or not. Oh yeah,
I was a good I was agood Christian boil. So then you probably
struggled with the same dwelling, longterm fear of hell. I'm guesserite.

(50:10):
Absolutely my religious journey started Pentecostal,so oh big part of it. Yeah,
the hell you grew up with wasintense. Yeah, and you know,
it's just been there since I'm akid. So like I am,

(50:31):
I'm a forty year old that oldhuman who's afraid of an endgame scenario that
I can rationally say probably isn't goingto happen, and yet it still to
this day affects me. Yeah.Absolutely, so are you. I'm not

(50:55):
even sure there isn't a God.I'm like, I fall into the agnostic
category and I I don't even knowwhat I want an answer to the I
just am not convinced there is somethingsure. But yeah, okay, well
can we can we play around withus a little bit? Absolutely? Okay?

(51:20):
So have you heard of Pascal's wager? Yes? Okay, so for
people go down to Okay, Icould be right, so I might as
well hedge my bet kind of.Yeah. When I was a Christian,
we hated it. We you know, because we we we say God isn't
death insurance. But that was kindof what what Pascal had said, So

(51:42):
what Pascal did and created a littlea little graph, right, and in
four corners you had, yeah,Heaven and Hell actually existing, not actually
existing, believing and not believing.And so if you believe in have an
and Hell exists, cool, youcan go to heaven and avoid Hell.

(52:02):
If you believe in it doesn't exist, it doesn't matter because you just voipe
out of existence. If you don'tbelieve and it doesn't exist, doesn't matter,
vope out of existence. But ifyou don't believe and it does exist,
you can go to hell. Andso it sounds using Pascal's wager like
the prudent thing to do is believejust in case, right, But the

(52:27):
assumption there is that that's the onlyoption. But you know that there are
lots and lots of different versions ofan afterlife, and most of them that
I've seen are mutually exclusive. Soeven if you did believe, and you
were the best Christian, maybe you'regoing to go to some maybe some other

(52:50):
god. Question was the right one, you're gonna get punished anyway. You
know, it's not four squares,it's infinite in as many different versions.
I was just gonna say, Actually, South Park is amazing example of that,
and all these people arrive at Helland it's like, but wait,
that was a great insert religion here, and then the one that comes out

(53:15):
the front, Yes, you areall in hell, you are all dead.
The correct religion was Mormonism, wasn'tit. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And so when it comes to that, I think that contextualizing it in
the the realization that if there isa hell, if that was the case,

(53:46):
it isn't necessarily because you were abad person, you know, and
that isn't the most like philosophically sound, I guess thing, But personally for

(54:06):
me, that was something that Ithought of that helped me. Another thing
that I thought of is that Igave them enough time. I gave them
enough of me, and they don'tdeserve anymore. They don't get to have

(54:28):
more of me. So doctor DarylRay, who is the founder of Recovering
from Religion actually calls uh calls thisit's a form of abuse, and you're
a survivor of it. So amI, and so are a lot of

(54:49):
the people watching, you know,being absolutely instilled with this fear is a
trauma that we're working on healing fromand recognizing it as a trauma It is
really important because I've talked to peoplewho try and like rationalize their way into
shaming themselves to not feel bad.Shame is not a good reason to get

(55:14):
through it. So if you're oneof those people, or if anybody who's
watching is trying to shame themselves outof fear of hell, it is just
piling abuse on top of the traumathat you're already trying to recover from.
So recognize it for what it is. It is recovery from trauma, and

(55:36):
take your time with it and becompassionate with yourself because way too many people,
including me, I was not compassionatewith myself, and I was frustrated
with myself because that fear was stillthere even if I had moved in so
many other ways. But that's becauseI was trained into that. You know,

(55:58):
that is really really difficult. Letgo of and and and and that's
okay, you're not alone, youknow, yeah, all right, it's
it's it's frustrated because like, onthe one hand, conceptually, rationally,

(56:19):
I'm in one place with religion,and yet on the other hand, there's
this like lizard brain spear in theback of my head going remember what they
told you is the key. Yeah, absolutely, But then again, I
don't know about you. But ona really dark night when I got to

(56:40):
wake up and find my way tothe kitchen to get a glass of water
and I'm walking through a dark house, I also remember scary movies. I
also remember the Exorcist, and thatfear is something that my lizard brain is
doing. And you know, justjust recognizing, hey, that's your lizard

(57:06):
brain, I can well, Idon't know, maybe categorizing it that way
can help, because there are alot of irrational things that people are afraid
of, especially when it comes toyou know, dark shapes in the night,
but we we recognize them for whatthey are. And this is a

(57:28):
trauma that you're working through and it'sunderstandable, and a lot of us are
still dealing with it, you know. Yeah, I don't know. What's
interesting is you know, in atheistspaces, people get really down on that

(57:49):
whole fear of healthing, but itfeels like it's part of that entire package
that you're sold on when you're religious. You know, people think, oh,
why I don't have the god beliefanymore. So I'm all of a
sudden somehow more able to discern rightfrom wrong when the fact is it's a
whole package. You know, whenit comes to leaving your religious belief you're
also potentially needing to to look atyour politics, your views on sex,

(58:15):
on gender, your responsibility to yourcommunity, to yourself, to your family
and structure it is. And II kind of want to call out that
there are a lot of people inthe atheist community who are still very much

(58:37):
fundamentalist Christian in the way that theyshame and like kick others out and will
gatekeep in ways that they learned atchurch. But they're not putting that critical
eye there, you know, butthey'll take that critical eye to a fear

(58:58):
of hell. So it's it's frustrating. But as far as I'm concerned,
you're kicking ass. Take the time, have some have some passion for yourself,
Okay, Dan, Yeah, Iwish I had more for you.
I wish I could take that fromyou, But it's it's just one of
those things. You know, You'veoffered me a different perspective on it,

(59:22):
And yeah, that's a lot sogood talking about it like this takes the
teeth out a little bit too.So it's really awesome that you had the
the strength to call. So thankyou. Wow. I appreciate what you're
doing here and you dont want tosee you. Thank you. I hope

(59:46):
that you are in the air andI hope to talk to you again.
Take care, Dan, Thank you. Thank that was nice. Okay,
Oh my goodness. I don't knowhow long this show's going to go.
I just realized I'm not sure,but we're going to keep going because we've

(01:00:08):
got callers and I want to talkto them. I missed talking to people.
So our next person, I'm justgoing to go in order of the
order that they called in Maria inWashington. You are live on Skepting Generation.
Hi, Maria. Oh my god, I'm so excited. I am
so happy to see you back inYou know, I am glad that you

(01:00:30):
took the time that you needed,but it is very good to see you
back. Thank you. I appreciatethat. What did you want to talk
about? So? I have aquestion that I don't necessarily know as my
position on, but I do wellseeing you peek out on philosophical questions from

(01:00:52):
time to time, so I wantedto hear your opinion on this. Okay,
So basically, like we know,so that we there is like pypical
moral questions, right, Like Ican go to the most simple example like
the trolley program, would you likefull deliver or not? Or things like

(01:01:14):
that, or like maybe a littlebit more complex, like oh, is
it what the justice system should looklike for someone that is a very scene
of time, like more resonal one, like is it moral we justify to
search retribution or should we just likefocus on that person just receiving like tools

(01:01:39):
to go back to society and I'mluck in their words. That's basically I
can help with that one. It'swhether or not it's punitive, right you're
punishing them, or whether or notit's rehabilitative where you want to rehabilitate them
into a functioning member of society againand put them back as somebody who can

(01:02:00):
not be damaging to the community thatthey're in. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
So all these small questions, inmy opinion, depends on what on
like the point of view of whoeveris answering, Like they are not necessarily
like there's not an objective truth tothem. There's not like a correct answer.

(01:02:22):
But I think that that speaks toour an ability to be completely objective,
like we're all affected by our experiences. So my question to you is,
basically, do you think if therewas out there an entity which I
don't believe in, but an entitythat could like see all information be perfectly
objective? Do you think that thesemoral questions have like an objective truth that,

(01:02:47):
like, if an entity existed thatcould like gather all information necessary to
answer them, could like answer ina satisfactorily way. Yeah, Oh my
gosh, Okay, jacket is comingoff for this. I love this question.
Okay, so let's let's dive in. Is there more that you wanted
to add or can I can Istart to respond? No, I think

(01:03:12):
that that's the croach of my question, and I don't know how to answer
it myself. Okay, I cantell you what I got. Okay,
So the first is we have totalk about what truth is. Do you
have a definition for truth whenever youtalk about something being true? So here's

(01:03:34):
something that it goes a little bit. Why I'm talking about moral questions instead
of like naturalistic questions, right,because I feel like I have seen many
other users and papology I think,is the one that approached that is like
definition of truth or is like,oh that that adheres to reality like that

(01:03:59):
gives you like repeatable answers or seemsto like have like evidence in nature.
But yeah, so I feel likethat definition of truth goes to wards answering
things like that happening nature if thatmakes sense, but doesn't give you like,

(01:04:23):
oh, what is truth of allquestions are are more about like what
is the correct thing to do?Yeah? Yeah, yeah, okay,
So I would love to hear yourdefinition of truth. No, no,
no, you got mine. Soother other people have different ways that they

(01:04:43):
define truth, But I'm right there. I think that what is true is
that which comports to reality, right, because you check it against reality,
and if it you check it againstreality, and those things are the same.
Cool, it's true. If youcan't, it's not. But that
that does only get into the world, right. We have other things that

(01:05:03):
we talk about that aren't necessarily somethingthat you can put under a microscope.
But yeah, and I think ifI may add to that, I always
that is something that sociology call studiesto try to like emulate in some way,
like oh, going back to thepressure of punishment versus rehabilitation, that

(01:05:24):
you could like theoretically kind of likedo a study and see what's what has
like the better impact in society inthe long run, and kind of like
compare it to reality then gives youlike a good answer, right, But
I don't know if I feel likethose type of studies can answer it like
completely one hundred percent. Right.Okay, So I've got two parts to

(01:05:50):
this, and I can go offon like really big tangents, but I
want to make sure that I getlike the main points across before I lose
my train of thought. So thefirst one is, when it comes to
something being true to me, Iseparate it into capital T truth and lower
case tea truth. For the thingsthat are capital T true, right,

(01:06:14):
those things that comport to reality,we can never actually access it. We
can never directly access those things thatare true because we're limited to our site,
our smell, our taste, ourtouch, you know, the tools
that we have to investigate things,and those things could be wrong. Right.
We could be close to the truth, but we can't really determine whether

(01:06:38):
or not we're right there. Right. We can get close, we can
get to lower to case T truth, but never actually to that uppercase T
truth. And I think that ifyou were to take that and put that
onto some kind of all knowing beingwho could factor in everything. Our access
to that would still be the same, you know, lowercase T, capital

(01:07:00):
T truth, we would not beable to access it in a way that,
at least to me, is satisfactory. And so that, to me,
that adds an extra step onto things. But the other thing there is
I feel like we're talking about differentcategories. Have you heard of the term
non overlapping magisteria? Oh no,no, I've never heard that. It

(01:07:23):
is a really frustrating one that Ilearned when I was pretty young, you
know, when I was when Iwas asking questions, and that is that
the idea that there's the religious realmand all the things like miracles that are
in religion, and then there's thescientific realm, and they're separate from each
other and they do not overlap.And so so is it a theological term,

(01:07:44):
Yeah, it is, and thosethings kind of to them are in
their own separate places. And sothat's the first word that comes to mind
for me. But I do thinkthat there are different categories when it comes
to what you're talking about. Right, So what you're talking about is epistemology,
and by the way, V dida video on this years ago.

(01:08:09):
I can see if I can findthe link that that talks about this really
really clearly. So I'm gonna domy best, but if you can somewhere,
I can also look for love tosee the first past good. So
I feel like there are three orwhen V talks about it, there there
are three tent poles right that areholding up people's understanding of the world.

(01:08:30):
One of them is epistemology. Epistemologyis the way why you think what you
think right, and you're you're divingfor that epistemic tool right now to understand,
uh, what you're talking what you'retalking about. But I feel like
there's another piece there, and that'saxiology and okay, which is like your

(01:08:54):
basis, like for where you're starting. So all of them kind of worked
together. So axiology is the aughtpiece, right, what aught you do?
What is the right thing to?Yeah, and the aught and the
is are different. Now, don'tget me wrong. Your understanding of the

(01:09:17):
world can influence your at right,your your axiology, so so the your
epistemic understanding of the world. Maybeyou go, okay, I really value
human flourishing. Cool, what whatis the ought there, Well, I'm
gonna go I ought to do thingsthat encourage flourishing, human flourishing and and
and maybe you know, reduce suffering. Cool. So you create that ought

(01:09:42):
and that is the axiom that you'reusing now. But they are different things,
right, They inform each other.Maybe you have the axiom of a
god exists and they're gonna punish youif you touch yourself. Cool, that
informs that informs your epistemology, rightof you know, why you think about
the world the way it does.But they they they exist separately. So

(01:10:04):
and I guess that without tapping intoa god, you could say like,
oh, I appreciate human flourishing.So I think that rehabilitation is better because
it has better the sols for societyversus someone that says, oh, I
appreciate justice and not all action consequence. So I think that is more important

(01:10:27):
for justice to be served in ourway. And so we ought to punish.
And those different axioms are are whatwe're talking about. And it really
comes down to you know, whyare those your axioms? You know?
Yeah, But again, like let'slet's go back to that idea. If
there was some grand creator designer whoknew everything and understood it perfectly. What

(01:10:50):
is that designer's axiom, because maybethey're axiom It doesn't have anything to do
with human flourishing. Maybe it hasto do with some you know, some
other rock in space inconceivable distance away, you know, and we have nothing
to do with what ought to happen, right, Yeah, No, And
I think that that steps into likethis conversation of like, oh, there

(01:11:14):
is there objective morals. And somepeople have pointed out that if your objective
morals are based on what a godthinks is good or not, then if
not objective, it's subjective because it'sobjective to what God God's opinion is.
You're absolutely right. You can't getaway from that subjectivity. It's it's really

(01:11:36):
it really bites. But the bettersolution, at least that I think,
is we just define objective to besomething that we're all agreeing on, right,
it is something that we all wantto happen, and so that objective
is created by us. I don'tthink objective morality needs to come from some

(01:12:00):
some divine command, you know,yeah yah, yeah, And I cannot
imagine entity that has all knowledge andit's also like free of subjective opinion right
itself, Like I don't even knowhow that wouldn't look like. So I
feel like a any kind of beingthat was that that did not have axiom

(01:12:27):
would not be able to act.It would be a statue. You know
that that is very Yeah, yeah, I guess so, because if you
don't have any odds, then itwould be like indifferent to anything. Yeah,
And so it's it's I don't know, it's it's it's definitely interesting and

(01:12:51):
that I want to find the videoV died on it and I'll try and
remember to link it in the uhthe the description for or this clip,
because I'm definitely going to clip thisand put this out there for people to
check out. But yeah, there'sthere's ontology, which is just what is

(01:13:12):
right. There's epistemology, which iswhy we think, you know, and
reason and understand things the way wedo. And then there's axiology, which
is you know, what ought Andall of those things in form each other
and hold each other up and kindof create the framework that we base our
understanding of the world on. Andso yeah, it sounds like you're worried

(01:13:36):
about why axiology doesn't fit into epistemologyor ontology. It's because it's its own
thing. Yeah, no, II guess you. This is a conclusion
that I have arrived whenever I wasthinking about this, but you have helped
me to put in towards what Itreatively was thinking. That's awesome, glad.

(01:13:58):
Yeah, this is the kind ofthing that I go nuts for.
I absolutely love these conversations. Itfeels if it feels disconnected in the same
way that I disconnect when I play, you know, a game that I
love, or do something else thatI love doing. I know it's navel
gazing in a way, but it'sthe best kind and I love it.

(01:14:18):
So thank you, No, thankyou, and I am very excited to
see you again. And Dve bemy love as well. I am sure
they are watching the show right now, but oh, definitely they're They're they're
having fun in the comments. Ifyou're checking the comments, you'll see that

(01:14:39):
he is talking in there. MariaLaspanel, What so English isn't your first
language? What? What is?No? Yeah, my first language is
a Spanish. I am actually fromGuatemala that I have been living here in
Seattle for like five years now.So so your ability to have this kind

(01:15:01):
of conversation in a language that isnot native is so impressive to me.
I'm I'm, I'm amazed by that, and I would love if you get
the opportunity. I'm going to begoing into the skeption and discord after the
show, and I would love totalk to you about whether or not you'd

(01:15:24):
be interested in doing this kind ofcontent and Spanish, because I can help,
I can help make it happen,but I can't engage. It's it's
very interesting that you say, though, because I have been thinking that it
shows that talk about the skepticism arelacking in the Spanish. I feel like,
and I so right now, Idon't have be done with as someone

(01:15:46):
would say, uh to like createthe type of content or anything like that,
but I haven't been in life thesetype of content is really needed in
the Spanish as well. So Ifeel like there's if you didn't have a
lot of Yeah, I have aquestion where if you didn't have to do
all of the work of putting upthe show and producing it and doing all

(01:16:08):
the video work and the advertising andthe the you know, thumbnails and descriptions
and all of that, if youjust hosted, would that be something you
think you might have the bandwidth forUh, yeah, I think so.
I would love to. I feelthat one of the most difficult parts would
be, like, ah, doall their research and make sure that I

(01:16:30):
kind of like understand the things thatI'm talking about. Yeah, more so
that that is literally the problem thatI deal with all of the time,
so that is not unique. Let'sif you get the opportunity, hop into
the discord. If not, shootme an email at contact Skeptic Generation at
gmail dot com and let's talk,because that would be something that I would

(01:16:54):
find a lot of value in andthat I would love to explore. Oh
my god, Oh that would beamazing. I am totally open to ideas.
And if we can make these typeof content more accessible for people that
don't speak English, I love thatidea. I agree. And plus we're
in the States, so nobody canWe're far away from where people can get

(01:17:16):
pissed off. Anyway, Thank youfor calling in. Have a wonderful rest
of your day, you too,and good luck with the rest of the
show. And hello to everybody thatis making this possible as well. That
it's sincerely appreciated. They're amazing.All right, take care you too.
Bye bye. Okay, so I'vegot three more callers, So for the

(01:17:43):
call screeners, let's have these nextthree callers be the last three because I
know that we've got like a goodnumber of people coming through, but I
know people have other obligations and Idon't want to take them from it.
So let's move on and talk toRoy, who is an aging gnostic in
North Carolina. Roy, you're onSkeptic Generation. Hey, Eric, this

(01:18:06):
is the first time I've called intoany sort of show, but I've been
a fan for a while. I'mreally I'm so surprised that, like people
found out for the very first episodethat we're coming back, like the fact
that so many people are here,and it's blowing my mind. I'm really

(01:18:28):
glad that you called in. Thankyou, what did you want to and
congrats on the basement. Right.So it's so funny when I talk to
people who who have grown up withbasements, they they're like ew. But
for me, Man, I youknow, living in southern states, living
in California and Texas and California,an earthquake is just going to kill you,

(01:18:49):
like you would not want to beunderground. And in Texas where we
were around Austin, you would getsix inches down and then it's just like
limestone, you know. And soeven like indoor like under like below ground
pools is really really rare because youkind of got to dynamite it. So

(01:19:15):
to be able to do this isreally really wild for me. But anyway,
yeah, thank you. What didyou want to talk today? I
just saw the notification, like whenthe call was like twenty six minutes in,
so I joined and then I calledin, So I didn't plan anything
ahead, and the call screener wantedme to be more specific. They weren't

(01:19:38):
pushy or anything, of course,but there's only two main topics I could
talk about. It's like my agnosticismor trans issues because I'm trans sure,
I'm not sure if you want totalk about bull for one before the other.
I sincerely appreciate it and shout outto the person who's currently screening calls.
It's secularity SR who's on oh okay, who is just an absolute sweetheart

(01:20:03):
and is doing this today, andI sincerely appreciate it. So when it
comes to trans issues, my partneris trans and I am not. And
so when it comes to speaking abouttrans issues, there's only so far that
I'm comfortable in going before like I'mtrying before, I feel like I'm trying

(01:20:25):
to speak for someone who's not me. You know what I mean, Okay,
I understand, and so like,as a trans person, there are
certain things that I would defer toyou on because you have a lived experience
that I don't have. But ifthere's something in trans issues or in arguments

(01:20:46):
or things that you've experienced that youwant to talk about, and you know
anything specifically like that, I'm allears and I'm happy to engage. I
didn't want it to be all sappy, but I didn't like some of the
calls are a bit emotional, andthat's good to talk about, but I
have mental health issues and I don'twant to get too heavy. But I

(01:21:08):
only learned I was trans when Iwas in high school. I think that
was my junior year, and sofor most of my youth I was completely
oblivious to why I was such aweirdo and why it felt so different.
And I didn't fit in with eitherguys or girls because they were just either
too raw or too posh, orthey all streamed it bugs and I was
the one that picked it up andtake it outside and yeah, like I

(01:21:30):
always was just different and I didn'thave any word for it until high school
and my family wasn't sorry, goahead, no, no, go ahead
please. My mom and dad thoughtit was a phase and right during high
school that was not the best timefor me. But both of them accepted

(01:21:54):
me after a few years. ButI'm having trouble with the rest of my
extended family. That makes sense,So like things are, things are improving
kind of. I I even justwhen it comes to losing leaving religion,
that there are family members who Iwon't speak to anymore. I cannot imagine

(01:22:15):
the leap and that golf that you'vethat you've been experiencing. Yeah, that
that can I can? I canI offer something? How old are you?
Roy? Twenty two? Okay,So did you see any of the

(01:22:38):
content that I did when I waswith the Atheist Community of Austin. Yeah,
I've watched pretty much all the atheistsshows, so probably yeah. Yeah.
So before starting talking then I wasa call screener for the Atheist Experience
and there was a caller like likewe would get a whole bunch of different

(01:22:58):
types of callers, and that's truefor most of these call in shows and
the importance of having a call screeneris because there's a certain type of caller
who needs to call in but isnot on the air. And I can
explain that a little bit. Italked to this guy who was I think

(01:23:23):
like seventy five, seventy six,right, and he was just coming to
terms with the fact that he's gayand he lived, he lived this entire
life trying his best to uphold thesereligious principles that kind of excluded being gay

(01:23:48):
from being an option. And afterkind of deconstructing his religious views, he
was able to kind of look himselfin the mirror and go, I'm gay
and opening up. I could tellthat talking to me as a call screener.

(01:24:12):
I was the first person that he'dactually been able to talk to about
this. And he cried and hecried, and I took that call and
I talked to him. I talkedto him until after the show ended,
and I just I just listened becausehe was grieving the fact that he no

(01:24:33):
longer had the time, he doesn'thave enough life to he's never going to
be gay in his twenties or fortiesor fifties or sixties. That the idea
of growing old with somebody that heloves was robbed from him. Well,

(01:24:54):
I hope he lives a bit longer. At least I can still meet somebody
me too. But ultimately it lefta really really big impact on me.
The fact that you came to thisin high school and you have so much

(01:25:14):
wonderful life ahead of you. Ijust have so much hope for the future
for you because you have this wholebook that you still need to fill out
of your life. I'm really,really, really glad that you got to
get to this point at twenty two. Yeah, I appreciate it. Eric.

(01:25:43):
Yeah, I mean, you're tryingto not be mushy. I think
you're more happy than I am rightnow. I'm just trying not to be
too emotional because I can ramble alot. But you're having a great time,
and that's great. Hey, thereare only so many things that I
can offer out before I feel likeI'm talking out of my butt, you
know, And when it comes tothese kinds of things, I only have

(01:26:06):
my own experience to draw from beforeI'm before everybody knows I'm talking out of
my butt, because that's just kindof how that is. And so I
don't want to offer up something thatI don't know or that I don't have
the right to. But what Ican say is that it sounds like you're
a really sweet person, and I'mI'm glad that you've come to this many

(01:26:30):
conclusions that are going to inform therest of this life that you have.
At twenty two, My goodness,I was, yeah, sorry, can
I talk for a little bit,Yeah, go ahead. Both my parents
were pretty religious, and I actuallywas I think agnostic in about fourth grade

(01:26:50):
or so. I'm not sure aboutthe years, but I lost my faith
pretty young and I never really believedtruly ever since. So if that blows
your mind, maybe that would too. I've talked to a number of people
who who have got there, andI'm just, honestly, I'm just jealous.

(01:27:14):
You know, I gave up oversomething kind of dumb. I was
bullied a lot leaving Catholic school.I was raised to be a Christian and
all that well Catholic, but Iwas too young to know what confirmation means,
what baptism means. Like all thatwas done to me, but I
prayed for bullying to stop, andit was so bad. I think my

(01:27:36):
anxiety was probably because each day Iwas just the teacher's pet. I was
the kiss ass of the class whoalways tried to be the best student,
and that was just not cool.And the bullying got so bad. I
cried each day and I prayed everysingle night for it to stop. And
eventually I was like, what ifno one's listening? And that that was

(01:28:00):
it. I just stopped praying.After that, I stopped trying to ask
for some assistance. Yeah, like, that's why I'm agnostic, because I'm
not disproving all religions. That's goingto take too long. That's the fool's
air, and well, so itit. I think we can move into
talking about that a little bit ifyou're up for it. Sure, sure,
Okay, So when you talk aboutagnosticism, do you think that you

(01:28:24):
need to disprove every religious claim everto call yourself an atheist? Uh?
No, the like the Google definitionis just someone who doesn't believe in God.
So I usually go with atheists justto be simpler. But yeah,
I just don't know for certain.I got it. So there are lots

(01:28:44):
of arguments that people have about whatagnosticism means. For me, agnosticism means
that that is a question that can'tbe answered. Oh yeah, I'm not
taking that heart of a stance now, And so I mean, as long
as you know what you mean andyou can communicate that in which you just
did, then that's fine. Butmy first my first thought is, you

(01:29:08):
know, oh why why? Whydoes why does Roy think that that question
can't be answered? And so I'mlike getting ready. But if that's not
what you meant, then never mind. Okay, I'll think of a different
title. I do a lot ofdebates in my spare time. How much
time would you like this call tolast? So I am? I So

(01:29:29):
I was thinking this show was goingto last for an hour, and we're
an hour and a half in.Maybe it'll last for two hours. But
if that's the case, I've gottwo more calls, so I definitely want
to make sure that I give themenough time as well. But if you
want to like dive into the nittygritty of agnosticism and the conversations you've been
having around it, would you beup for another week or what's up?

(01:29:55):
Oh? Sorry? Sorry, Ikind of wanted to do one like final
point I left no worries. Isis it going to be one of those
like five minute things or do youjust kind of want to know sumb it
up and put it into and gofor it the stage. I've been pretty
quick because I don't want to talktoo much anyway, Go ahead, Okay,

(01:30:17):
Like both my parents are religious,but they kind of floundered a bit.
Like my dad was raised Catholic,but he told me when he was
around that he was by and he'sbeen with many people, Like he wasn't
as strict as his grandma probably thought, or his mom probably thought, And
so he taught me to be openminded and be more kind to everybody.

(01:30:42):
And then my mom, on theother hand, she was a witness of
Jehovah's witness and she's just shunned awayfrom all different churches. She's afraid to
go to churches. She doesn't likecertain media. Yeah, like my dad's
was this free, kind person whodidn't care what believes star and my mom
just kind of closed yourself off tothe world and even to me in a

(01:31:04):
few ways because of her religion.Is she still so? I think both
of their different sorry, both oftheir different perspectives definitely taught me a lot
about how to be a good person. Interesting, is your mom still a
practicing Jova's Witness. No, nowshe's she hasn't been to a church service

(01:31:27):
in years. But my grandmother andmy granddad on her side, like they
never visited because we weren't of thefaith, got it, And so it
was kind of sad growing up.But now I'm kind of like, well,
I didn't want to be indoctrinated.Now I know how dangerous it is.
Now I know why my mom left. Yeah, I just yeah,

(01:31:47):
just seeing along the non believer spaces, the the the active ex Jehovah's Witness
community is one that really blows mymind because is the level of intensity and
indoctrination and community pressure that they puton themselves and each other is really really

(01:32:08):
intense. I I'm consistently surprised,and yeah, I'm sorry. Just we
had that caller earlier who was talkingabout we were talking about religious trauma,
and it's like, oh my gosh, I can only imagine. But Roy
I I'll call again another time.I just wanted to say, like,

(01:32:30):
my parents taught me a lot.I'm glad that you got to balance that
through. That's really really awesome.I think you're fortunate there. I know
that the format of this there's adelay, and as a host, I
try and kind of jump in,but it does, I know from the
color standpoint, and it sounds likewe're cutting each other off. I appreciate

(01:32:53):
your patience, but I'm really gladthat you called. Thank you firec until
Vuh. She's awesome and you're awesometoo. Appreciate it. Bye bye,

(01:33:13):
What a sweetheart. I'm okay,so we've got more. We've got uh,
let's see, we've got another agnostic. Let's dive in and talk to
Red Red. You're on skeptic Generation. How's it going. I'm doing pretty
good, good good, and letme get you here and then okay,

(01:33:34):
sorry, since i'm producing this whilei'm hosting and just making sure that your
name is coming up. Oh,thank you for calling in. I know
you're a little quiet, but I'mtrying to bump your audio up a little
bit. What did you want totalk about? So I was trying to
figure out how to articulate this witha call streamer and you kind of helped

(01:33:54):
me out. So I'm I'm agnosticatheist. I kind of use i'm not
sta atheist kind of the same waythat you do. There's no I don't
see U. I don't have away to disprove God, but I also
don't believe there is one I was. I was raised Christian when I was

(01:34:15):
younger, so I kind of felloff of faith, and these talk talk
shows kind of helped me firmed mylogical stance on things and how to think
critically. But recently, I dolike I mostly got into it because I
like the aesthetics of it, Nordaicpaganism. I really like delving into that,

(01:34:41):
and I don't necessarily I like tolike read about it. Like this
previous Christmas, I celebrated Youle insteadof Christmas because I don't really identify with
Christmas anymore. For personal reasons.I kind of just observe with some of
the pagan holidays, not necessarily becauseI don't really have a belief in it.

(01:35:05):
I don't believe necessarily the wouy stuffin it. I just like to
participate kind of in some of itbecause I kind of get a sense of
joy out of it, kind ofsense of meditation in some of their practices,

(01:35:25):
in their symbolicism. I really likeit. But I've just been having
these conflicting feelings of like I don'tbelieve this. Do I really get to
say that I get to enjoy thisor should I delve into this stuff even
though I don't believe it? AmI causing harm by pushing kind of even

(01:35:48):
though I don't really believe I'm pushingany belief on it, or just just
by even just participating in it.Absolutely, that is a really really good
question. So you're gonna get differentanswers from different people. I had a
yelling match with somebody at a conventiononce about this. It was amazing because

(01:36:11):
the person organized was one of themain organizers of the convention. It was
at the Center Picon Center for Inquiry. They they do their their convention in
Las Vegas, and this person wasextremely against Chris Christmas for those reasons.
Right, But as I've kind oftalked to people and as I've thought about

(01:36:33):
it for myself, here's here's whatI've come up with. We have a
cultural heritage that we are entitled to. It is in our language, right
that that there are a lot ofwords in English and you know, probably

(01:36:55):
every other language that have roots inreligion. But that doesn't mean that leaving
the faith means that you can't saythose words anymore. You know, I
can still say damn it, eventhough I know that no one's getting damned
to hell, right, And Ithink that holidays are the same, right.

(01:37:18):
It is part of my cultural inheritance. I think I was raised around
holidays like Christmas in Easter, andwhile I don't believe the religious piece of
it, it is an excuse thatI get to have to make a whole

(01:37:39):
bunch of food and tell the peoplethat I love that I love them,
and to gather around. And itis a really feel good thing that I
love doing and I'm going to continueto do it, and I feel like
I have the right to it.I don't need to celebrate the same way
everybody else celebrates. And I thinkthere are a lot of atheists that do
that. That that is kind ofa Christian atheist, right, somebody who

(01:38:05):
still takes part in some of theholidays and things like that, but they
don't don't don't believe. You alsohave a humanist or or non believing Jewish
folks, right, Jewish atheists theystill consider themselves Jewish because they they still
celebrate the holidays and are active inthe community that that they were a part

(01:38:30):
of. They just don't believe andWhat I love about the Jewish community is
that they create a space for them, right. They don't ostracize them because
they don't believe. They go,oh, you're still Jewish. You just
don't believe in God. You know. When it comes to paganism, it's
it's called atheopaganism. I'm sure youknow that. But being an athiopagan means

(01:38:51):
you're an atheist who is celebrating paganstuff. You know, they are also
U before Yeah, I didn't knowabout the stuff. It's it is a
really really interesting Just just be preparedbecause people want to gate keep always.

(01:39:12):
You know, they are Christians whowant to keep Christmas away from you know,
atheists. They are going to bePagans who want to gate keep you
know, their their pagan traditions awayfrom non believers as well. That said,
you've got people like Ocean Keltoy whoconsider some self a pagan, but
generally, the last time I talkedto him, doesn't believe. You know,

(01:39:33):
there there are lots of non believersthere who are taking a part in
those traditions because it gives them identity, a community to be a part of.
You have those things in common.You have holidays like you talked about
with Yule. We celebrated Eule inthis house for the last couple of years
too. Right, you have peoplewho are involved in in uh druidic or

(01:39:56):
or or which you know, quoteunquote which whitchy stuff. Yeah, but
like v will do you know,spell work, which doesn't v noos.
It's not doing anything, but it'sa it. It appears to me to
be a really great way to centeryourself. It's like journaling, but you

(01:40:20):
get to pretend to do cool stuff, you know, and you're just like
it's meaningful and you're doing things thatare symbolic to you which are really really
cool. You don't need to necessarilybelieve in it. That said, I
think the harm comes when you propup the religious parts. You know,

(01:40:42):
if you celebrate Christmas and you're like, hey, merry Christmas. I don't
think that's necessarily doing anything wrong.But if you're yelling at people that it's
Christmas, damn it, not happyHolidays, Okay, I think you're doing
something wrong. You know, ifyou are saying Jesus is the reason for
the season. You know, Ithink there's a reason why I stay from
Christmas now. Yeah, so Idon't say those things, but no one's

(01:41:08):
taken Christmas away from me. Damnit. I love it too much.
And i'm i'm, I'm i'm.I'm taking that as part part of my
cultural inheritance and my my that thatheritage that I have a right to.
So if you're gonna get involved inpaganism, the only the only scary thing
that I've seen as an outsider isyou've got to be really careful because there

(01:41:32):
exists a paganism to alt right pipelinethat like if you're on TikTok and stuff,
well, well just just just insocial media that there there exists this
pipeline. And the great thing thatI've seen in in ethiopagan and and generally
in pagan communities is this really bigpushed push out that kind of alt right

(01:41:56):
or or or or you know,really weird it. There is definitely a
big push to exclude that, andI'm really really happy to see it.
It's just something to be wary of, you know, be mindful of that.
Yeah, I'm always always vigilant forthat kind of stuff. I'm I'm
pretty on the left, so Itry to ground myself and stuff it.

(01:42:21):
It can sneak up in really weirdways and that's all. But yeah,
I hope that giving you that definitionethiopaganism gives you a route that you can
kind of search, and that definitelydid good. I didn't think about it
that before, Like it kind ofI had another thought while listening to you,

(01:42:45):
and it might be something I callin later about because I don't want
to take up too much time sinceI know you have another collar on.
But I feel like my fear oflike perpetuating this because I feel like,
oh, I don't have a beliefin God, and like there's a lot
of like people out there like Christianityand stuff that not that I don't I
don't mind if you're Christian, butlike if you perpetuate like things like you're

(01:43:12):
taking rights away from people and stuff, I feel like I have to advocate
for, like no, if youshouldn't participate that in that if it's going
to have harmful beliefs. But Ikind of just came to the thought like
that probably stems from me being exChristian and them pertetuating on me you need

(01:43:32):
to go out into the world andpretty much proclaimed Jesus wherever you go,
which was drilled into my head asa young child and something I stressed a
lot about. Yeah, I waslike, that's probably where it stems from,
and it's probably something I'm going totalk to my therapist about. Well,
but I think I need to articulatemy points from I'm not a bit

(01:43:53):
better. So the thing is,even if that is the point that you
come to the conclusion about, it'svalid, right that argument that I had
with somebody at Psychon, they hadthe they had that view that that celebrating
Christmas perpetuated Christian supremacy and that theonly way to get away from it is
to abolish Christmas. And to me, I think that all lines are arbitrary

(01:44:18):
in the end, and where youset your flag is where you set your
flag. For me, I setmy flag somewhere like I'm never going to
pay a tie at a church,you know, yeah, but I am
willing to reach across and collaborate withthe church when it comes to doing humanist

(01:44:40):
things, you know, aiding acommunity. Right. So for me,
those are kind of where my linesare. And Christmas is firmly in the
you know, that's okay for me. But if you come up to if
you come to a different conclusion thatdoesn't make you right or wrong. It
just makes that the line that youdrew for yourself, and that's okay.

(01:45:00):
So yeah, I think I'm stilltrying to figure out where I'm planting life
flags. I guess I just keepmoving it, and I feel bad why
in a way why, I don'tknow, Okay, okay, if there's
so, if there's something that youwant to draw from this. I remember
when I went to church, oneof the things that we would say to
each other to invalidate other people is, oh, well they said this thing,

(01:45:24):
but they were wrong, so obviouslythey can be wrong again. Right,
there's this. I do remember hearingthat quite a bit in my church
too. Yes, yeah, thatthere was this cultural expectation that if you
can prove fallibility in someone, thatperson is no longer an authority, which

(01:45:45):
is why I think so many peopleare so desperate to not be wrong,
even about stupid stuff, because theyfeel like that would kill their authority.
Heck, the last conversation I everhad with my pastor, he was yelling
at me about how Stephen Hawking saida thing and he was wrong and everybody
laughed at him, and to him, that was proof positive that Stephen Hawking
should never be listened to. Right. That may be a little bit of

(01:46:10):
that indoctrination still rattling around in there. It's okay to be wrong, Yeah,
And I think that, like forme, embracing that I can be
wrong is the only reason I'm ableto do a call in show, because
if I screw up, what Ineed to do is I need to go,
hey, shit, I was wrongabout that. You know, I'm

(01:46:31):
going to fix that or you know, and I'm going to do better moving
forward, And people really appreciate that. And that's something that you have the
right to do for yourself. Itis totally okay to be wrong. Keep
moving that flag until you are confidentthat that's where you want it to be,
and in twenty years later, ifyou don't feel like that is the
place for it to be anywhere,move it again. It's okay. There's
nothing to be ashamed of. Ifanything, you should be proud that you're

(01:46:55):
putting it somewhere where you believe andnot because you were told to put it
somewhere. That is awesome for you. I'm trying my best. You just
keep continuing to say things that I'vebeen struggling a lot with my mental health
and stuff, and I just wantto thank you for when you coming back
today. You just said so manythings that resonated with me, and it's

(01:47:16):
really going to help me later on. Earlier in the earlier in the show,
you said growth doesn't come without pain, and I pretty much started crying
because I've been going through a lotof pain and that just kind of helped
validate my feelings that I, yes, I am growing, because I've been

(01:47:36):
feeling like I'm not growing enough recently. So thank you so very much for
your words. I'm really glad thatthey helped. And there is going to
come a point in time where thefuture version of you is going to look
back at this and be like,hell, yeah, I was growing.
It's just we're not able to seeit when we're in the middle of it.
But that hurt is is is growth. So that's awesome. Thank you

(01:48:02):
for being vulnerable. Thank you forcalling, and I really really appreciate it.
I'm really glad that you called.Thank you so much. I was
debating on whether I should call todayor next week, but I'm like,
no, I want to call now. Oh, thank you for having me.
The show is better because you'd calledso Thank you. Take care,

(01:48:25):
have a good one. You havea good day, you too, Bye
bye, my heart. So Ihave one more caller that I want to
get to. Let's talk to Christianin Ohio. Christian, you have been
waiting for so long, and Iam so grateful that you waited. Thank
you so much. You are liveon Skeptic Generation. How's it going.

(01:48:48):
I'm doing very well. I'm verygrateful that you extended the show to take
my call. Of course, Ihave been listening ever since you guys started
this show, and I was Iwas a fan of fan of you guys
back when you were on Atheist Experienceand other things. Yeah, very glad

(01:49:10):
that you're back, but obviously anytimeyou need to step away again for your
mental health, I support. I'mjust happy to have you on my Sunday
again. Reade, I'm so gladthat you exist. I was so worried
that people are going to feel thetrade, you know, so thank you.
Oh no, no, always supporttaking some time off for mental health.

(01:49:31):
That is, I need it too, so I get it. Sure.
My question is kind of a kindof a more practical one that I've
been thinking about calling about for awhile. I was probably working up the
courage to do it right before youwent off the air, and now you're
back and now I can ask it. But it's okay. I've even gotten

(01:49:54):
better at this thing that I'm goingto ask about. So my question is
about using gender neutral pronouns. Iam non binary identifying myself. Although I
don't consider myself trans, I stillpresent as a man. I allow everybody
in my life to call me throughmasculine pronouns, but like in my head,

(01:50:15):
I know gender is a construct andI do not identify with masculine things,
and so I identify as non binaryif people ask me. But most
people I don't care that they don'task. But also I have a lot
of people call me gay and stuff, even though I'm straight mostly and because
I am not very mass presenting ina lot of like personality ways, even

(01:50:38):
though how really like physically I amanyway, enough about me, So I'm
non binary asking a question about nonbinary pronouns. I have a really hard
time getting my brain to use themconsistently. And I'm really thankful to you
because you have modeled it for mea lot with how you refer to the

(01:51:00):
and it has helped me get betterat using the correct pronouns for them,
and but that has taken a longtime. Like I've known of v for
years, and I'm finally getting betterat my brain recognizing what is true and
not trying to go back to theold binary that I used to believe in

(01:51:21):
when I was raised Christian. Andso when I have like years and years
of practice, it's great, butthat is not always the case. And
so I was wondering if you hadany tips about how you trained your brain
to get more comfortable with like reflexivelyusing they then pronouns, because I'm not
good at it. I so howdo I? I think this is you

(01:51:49):
know how people say the world willbe a better place when we plant trees
that are that will never live toenjoy the show. Yeah, yeah,
right, I've feel like we're plantingthose trees. And I feel like most
people, you know, when youwhen you hit your twenties and your brain
stops growing things, you know,that kind of brain elasticity, it becomes

(01:52:16):
more difficult. And it sounds likeyou have been implicitly graceful and and charitable
to everyone around you, and thatyou are granting so much for everybody else.
And I think that we're in asituation in a in a place where

(01:52:36):
there's this idea that, oh,people are going to be mad at me
if I misgender them. Right youare? You are? You are coming
up with you were coming in gracefullyand kindly. Right at the start,
You're front loading, like, hey, you know this, this is what
I'm comfortable with you calling me rightnow, and like the the amount that

(01:52:57):
you are giving is huge, andI wish that everybody could see that because
there's so much that you're already doingthat I feel, you know, it
does take grace and patience and forgivenessin a lot of ways for people you

(01:53:18):
know, who are figuring that shitout, and it's it's it's not your
burden to bear unless you want totake that on there. There are so
many pieces to it, So Iguess I need to zero in because I'm
getting too broad and that's gonna nothelp. How did I train my brain

(01:53:41):
into using they them pronouns, practicepractice, And I gave non binary people
a place their own cubby? Youknow, I think that before I really
engaged in in trans and non binaryspaces, I had a cubby for boys,

(01:54:04):
in a cubby for girls, andthat was kind of it, so
you had to choose between them.And now I have a cubby for days,
and it's it's interesting, Like Iguess the first example that comes to
mind for me is I was Iwas told that by culture has people sit

(01:54:31):
funny in chairs, and I sitin chairs, and I'm, by right,
I'm never not doing a show whereI'm crossing my legs or sitting on
my knees, you know, orsomething like that weird in the chair,
And a lot of people like,create a cubby for that, and go,
this is where they get to be, and these are the kinds of

(01:54:53):
things that they get to have.And as soon as I created a cubby
for non binary folks, I startedto see a whole lot of things that
non binary folks are doing to signalthat they're non binary when it comes to
clothing or language or things like that. And it became its own place for

(01:55:13):
me. And eventually I think thatI had fucked up and misgendered people enough
that my kind of go to isto just assume that I don't know their
gender right off, you know,starting out, and I guess I reflexively
use they then pronouns for most peopleunless they specifically, you know, indicate

(01:55:35):
to me otherwise. I had habitslike calling people brother that are very gendered,
until a CIS woman came to meand said, Eric, can you
call me brother too? Because Ifeel like I'm missing out because it feels
like something you do with boys,and I want to be a part of

(01:55:56):
that. And so it doesn't matterwhether your boy or not. I call
people brother. The only people I'mlike nervous about doing that with is people
who specifically, you know, liketrans women, who are afraid that that
feels, you know, awkward gendering. You know, I won't use that,
but like otherwise, that's something thatI've kind of universalized a bit.

(01:56:18):
I don't know that the doing thatfor yourself, I think that I I
I would want you to talk toother people who who use the them pronouns
because I'm sure that they are asmany stories and as many tactics as there
are people. Yeah, but speakingas somebody who doesn't use the them pronouns,

(01:56:42):
that's the best I have to offer. But that is by far,
that is so far from definitive.I really do recommend that you talk to
people that you share that with andlisten to them because I'm sure they have
a lot more relevant information than Ido, thank you. One of one
of the reasons that I struggle isbecause one of my very best friends,

(01:57:02):
who I've known for years and years, came out maybe about a year ago
as non binary. Although they arevery graceful as well and formerly used she
her pronouns, and so they're they'revery accommodating with the people around them,
and I still in my head,like because they've been a friend for such

(01:57:26):
a long time, they're still inthe you know, the she her category
in my head, and I haveto, like, if I catch myself,
I have to really think about itbefore I use bay them. And
and that person doesn't care. They'revery sweet, but I wish that I
had that cubby that you're talking about, and I think that that would help.

(01:57:50):
It is way harder to do thatfor people you're already now, because
because they have a cubby that they'vebeen in, so you don't get you
don't get to covey that friend.You've got to take them out of the
covey that they have been in andthen put them in a new one,
which means that like you have toundo stuff instead of just doing it immediately.

(01:58:13):
I am. I think I'm reallylucky that v came out to me
as non binary early in us knowingeach other, and so I was able
to covey them pretty pretty quickly becauseI didn't have to undo a whole lot.
So maybe I haven't earned as muchas you think. I do have
friends who are non binary who Igrew up with, and I can tell
you that it took a lot ofgrace and patience and kindness on their part

(01:58:38):
until I was able to get itright. So I I don't know.
Yeah, And I'm glad that youmentioned that that most NV people are so
gracious about it. That has alwaysbeen my experience as well. There's the
media stereotype of like the quick clapback you will gender appropriately, but I've

(01:59:00):
never witnessed that in real life.I've seen maybe some viral videos or whatever,
but it's so much more common thatthey are that you are more broken
up about it than they are,Like, well, absolutely, and and
and the thing that kills me isthose those viral videos that you're talking about.
It's probably probably somebody on their worstday, right exactly, and how

(01:59:27):
uncharitable you know, if you talkto them a week later, they're probably
not going to do that, andif they are, then holy shit.
You know, we don't we don'tknow what's going on in their lives.
But to assume that everyone is thatway, I think is responding in fear.
And I think that it's something thatI've done too in other places.

(01:59:51):
Is my first response to something unknownis for me to be as forward as
I can be about the things I'mafraid of. And it's uncharitable to yourself,
and it's uncharitable to everyone else.And I think it's a habit that
we have. So I, likeI said, I appreciate your grace,

(02:00:12):
and it's an ongoing conversation, butI do definitely recommend that you talk to
other people who are in the sameboat, because as an outsider, I'm
just some fucking asshole on the internet. I know, like, don't.
Well, just just know that youhave been instrumental, even in your your

(02:00:33):
sistness, you have been instrumental inme getting better at it, just through
modeling. I'm a teacher and soI have to model things for my students
all the time, and you haveyou have been modeling for me, and
I appreciate it. It's the bestway that I learned. Send in love.
Thank you, Thank you Christian,thank you for calling in no problem,

(02:00:54):
thanks for taking my call. Havea good one. Oh oh okay,
Sorry, I reread the thing andI was like, is Christian Christian?
Now? Okay, No, theirony is not lost on me though.
Hey you know what, I appreciateyou and that is your heritage you
have, that is yours. Youget to and keep it and there's nothing

(02:01:16):
wrong with that. Have an awokethe name. I wear it proudly.
Take care. Oh my, okay, So I want to hop right into
super chats that this was a lotof fun. Oh my gosh, I
can't believe it went so long.So I want to say, let me

(02:01:38):
just move this over here. Let'sstart at the top. Let me get
this up. I apologize. Bookwormof the Fandoms. It says, Hello,
I'm so excited to have my favoriteYouTube live show back on air.
I'm so glad you felt ready tocome back. Can't wait to see what's
in the future. Loving the conversationsso far. Have a lizard punch.

(02:02:00):
I don't know. I don't knowwhat that means, but I'm assuming have
a great day. Thank you.Bookworm, I sincerely appreciate it. Key
you, Tomoyaki says, thrilled yourback. I wonder, though, will
the show ever start later than nineam? I'll wake up early at any
time for this, but I'm nota morning person. I really thought about
that because it's nine am for metoo. But we have volunteers and people

(02:02:23):
who watch the show regularly who arein other countries. Specifically, we have
a pretty good European listenership, andwhen I've said, hey, I'm thinking
about starting at two in the afternoon, three in the afternoon, four in
the afternoon, that is really reallylate for them, and you know,
moving further into like Eastern European countries, I've had, you know, volunteers
who said, if you start thatlate, I won't be able to be

(02:02:45):
involved, and it broke my heartenough that I was just like, I
want to start early enough so thatwe can have that audience here too.
So I really appreciate you being okaywith waking up early. And if you
can't make the live show, that'stotally understood. I do release it as
a pie cast and it is there. But if you want to be involved
in the live chat, then yeah, I'm thinking that I'm gonna be starting

(02:03:06):
at nine am Pacific eleven am Central, just so that you know, those
people who want to watch can beinvolved to Let's see. Dan says,
I watch your show for its kindnessand charity. How do we adjust the
grounding problem of morality? Excuse me, Dan, please call in. Let's

(02:03:28):
have that conversation. There's no wayI'm not going to be able to do
that without bouncing that, you know, with somebody else, and I would
love to have it if you cancall next week. Let's see. King
Nick says, Yay, Skepchin isback, wishing all the best to you
and V really looking forward to anotherseason. Damn straight, thank you.
I'm looking forward to to hosting anotherseason. I cannot tell you how how

(02:03:51):
good this has made me feel.And I missed it, and I missed
all of you. Okay, let'ssee Jen says, because you're both awesome
and be put up with me writingessay length DMS when I was figuring my
shit out, so that deserves adonation by itself, Jensen five pounds.
Thank you, Jen, It's reallyreally sweet. I will make sure to

(02:04:13):
give that five to V. Thankyou King Nick again says, also,
massive shout out to my amazing fiance, Tanya. Tanya, shout out,
you got a cool fiance. Bensays, welcome back. I like your
more socratic method of calls than theSmackDown that some callin shows go for with
every disagreement. I appreciate that.I I remember reading on Reddit somebody saying

(02:04:42):
I hate Eric. I hate hisvoice, I hate his face. I
can't stand every time that he's on. I only watch episodes that he's not
on. And I responded, Iagree, I don't like his voice or
his face either. But I reallyhope that you can find the people that
you do like you know, andI gave recommendations of other shows and other

(02:05:03):
hosts, because what's important is thatyou find what you're looking for. You
know, you find what's going toresonate with you. And I'm really really
grateful and glad that I resonate withyou. I'm glad you're here. I'm
glad you found me. And thereare times that I am going to lose
my temper for sure, but Iwould love for when I lose my temper

(02:05:23):
to be for good reason. Iwant people to go, oh man,
Eric lost it. Something must havehappened. I don't want people to assume
that I'm doing it for attention orbecause I can't regulate my emotions, because
I want a model, you know, maybe when it's justified or at least
justified to me, and keep mycool when it's not justified. Because the

(02:05:45):
the angry atheist stereotype is one thatwe need to get away from. We
really do. It's not helping us. Okay, Sheridan says, welcome back,
missed you. Thank you, Sheridan, I'm glad to be back,
and Brianna says, so happy tosee you back. I missed y'all.
Thank you so much. This episodehas been wild. I have links to

(02:06:10):
update because the link to Patreon isdown, But if you want to get
an avery version of the podcast,get early access to things, special access
on Discord, and ad free versionof this live show, I can go
to patreon dot com slash Skeptic Generation. I believe link will be in the
description for the show. I willbe back on next week. So if

(02:06:34):
you didn't get to call in,or you want to call in, or
you have someone who wants to talkabout what they believe in why I really
look forward to it and in themeantime, I'm Eric Murphy and I'm glad
we had this talk. See younext week to the

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