BTVS S2E16 Bewitched Bothered and Bewildered w/ Claire Manning

Claire Manning (@claireunteed on tiktok and instagram) joins to discuss what happens when a teenage boy acts rashly and emotionally and Sarah Michelle Gellar has to be offset to host SNL

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
When I was a kid, we had there's like this
teap area where we would play te ball. There was
like four baseball field, so people would do t ball
in little league, and it backed up to a bunch
of houses, and there was this house with a chainlink
fence and these dogs that would bark if you walked
right up to their fence and like bother them. But
I had convinced myself that I could enchant them with music,

(00:21):
so I would sing to them. So I would like
be like barking because we're like approaching them, and I'd
be like, everybody, like, I'm not even kidding this dramatically,
like everybody stand back where, and they would literally sometimes
the dogs would stop just because they were like oh,
or they keep barking, and I'd be like, it's because

(00:42):
you guys aren't believing.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
Recovering Gleek presents.

Speaker 3 (00:56):
A clear Buffy podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
Hi.

Speaker 3 (01:02):
My name is Lena, and I'm Ian and I'm Claire
and welcome Jim, a queer Buffy podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
Wow, thanks for.

Speaker 3 (01:16):
We're so happy to be here.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
We have a special guest. As you may have heard,
we got we got oh for a second, Claire, for
a second, I was like, am I allowed to say
your last name on this podcast. If it's a big
secret that you have.

Speaker 4 (01:35):
I just handles on socials.

Speaker 2 (01:41):
We have at Oh my gosh, do I know your handle?
I don't know your handles?

Speaker 4 (01:47):
No, no, no, my name, my name?

Speaker 2 (01:48):
I know your old one. I know your old one
from high school. I have that memorized. We are joined
by Claire Manning, social media star star of TikTok and Instagram.
Also big time Buffy fan, also longtime friend since we
met backstage in our high school production of Greece in

(02:09):
twenty Grease.

Speaker 3 (02:12):
Oh my god, who did you play in Greece?

Speaker 4 (02:14):
Oh? The most important part, baby, I was prop manager. Period.

Speaker 5 (02:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:20):
You cannot have a production of Grease without the prop manager.
And that's the true being serious.

Speaker 4 (02:25):
To those calmns, wrangling those teenage.

Speaker 1 (02:26):
Boys to be like the colms, the cult, because everyone
had to take it out to like dance. It was
nightmare like wrangling the combs alone. I was like, I
can't do this. I don't know how people are doing this.
This is too much high school production, too much with
that many men boys children.

Speaker 3 (02:41):
Uh huh, But I forgot.

Speaker 2 (02:42):
That's where we met, right, That is where we met
I also remember that during that production of Greece, Claire
and our stage manager used to write notes in people's
lunch bags when we went out for the lunch scene,
as if it was from our moms. But they would
say stuff like your adopted love, like just like say, well,

(03:05):
thrilled to have you here, thrilled to have you on,
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (03:07):
So much for being here, Claire, I'm so happy you're here.
Genuinely thrilled, tickled, be witched. I have followed you on
online for quite some time. But also I remember specifically,
you do an impression of a character that I don't
want you to name, got you to know that that no,

(03:27):
don't look it up, we're spoiler free. But that really
that really struck a chord with me, left an impression
on me, and I want to give you kudos for that.
You do really good work.

Speaker 4 (03:38):
Thank you. Oh well, that's very sweet.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
Yeah, I I genuinely I do love Buffy. So that
was that came from the heart. Everything I do about
Buffy comes from the heart. But of course it's on
the internet. So a lot of people were like, why
are you attacking this show? I was like, first of all,
the show is the show has been around. Second of all,
not attacking, but thank you for saying that.

Speaker 3 (03:59):
I feel like Ian that like has turned into a zombie, Like, yeah,
it's just frozen for me all the way. It's kind
of scary. Okay, he's gone. I'm seeing while it's just
while it's just the girls. I would love to hear
your experiences with Buffy, Like when did you first find it,
Like do you have a favorite season? Like tell me

(04:19):
a little bit about your history with Buffy.

Speaker 1 (04:22):
Oh right, right, So, actually, like I only watched Buffy
because of the end for sure. I mean I might
have come to it later, but yeah, was kind of
like I don't know how like it is now. But
like he was definitely a person who didn't I like
to watch that alone. So he was watching not like alone,
like he couldn't watch it in his house, but like
he texted me and another friend, I need somebody to

(04:43):
watch the show, like I'm watching it and I have
no I need to talk.

Speaker 4 (04:46):
To someone about this.

Speaker 1 (04:47):
So that was probably like I think the year after
high school or something like that, And at the time,
I was like in a super weird it's very weird
place because it was like between high school and like college,
and I didn't go to college, so I was just
like working kind of like not doing anything. I was

(05:08):
living at my parents, and I just remembered I went
through that whole show like it would kind of just
me like every day, I'd be like, oh, right, Buffy time,
I watched the whole thing loved and then we would
all that, we'd all just you know, go.

Speaker 4 (05:20):
In the little group chat and like talk about it
and stuff like that. And then I've watched it as
an adult again. I watched it last.

Speaker 1 (05:27):
Year, and I've periodically watched it like you know, through
the through the years or whatever, and I and I
just love it and I just love her, And I
really don't know. I was trying to think of like
a thing that was like comparable, but I feel like
it's like kind of sounds major to be like, I
don't know if another show has touched it, But honestly,
like I don't know if another show has touched it
it like in terms of like just how many different

(05:50):
things it's able to do, like be funny, be cool.
I remember when I first watched it, for example, like
the fashion of the show, I was just like I
can't but every every single episode, I was like, I
cannot deal this is this is too much, this is
too perfect. The fashion, Oh my good, Okay, I was upset.
I used to like screenshot the outfits and then go
on like tumbler and stuff and try to find be

(06:12):
like do people know.

Speaker 4 (06:14):
Like are there things similar to us? Like in this Cordelia.

Speaker 1 (06:18):
Wears like a lace red dress with like a galvanized
uh you know, like silver necklace, and like that was
one of the outhit. I remembered it she showed up
on screen. I was like I remember searching for this
and I could not find it.

Speaker 3 (06:30):
That dress like really made an impression on me. This episode,
Oh my god, it's amazing.

Speaker 1 (06:34):
Also, Buffy going to school and I think it's in
like halfway to the episode. She has like a spaghetti
strap top on and like a matching little scarflet. Yes,
this episode has the fashion, which is surprising because it's
a lot of center.

Speaker 3 (06:48):
No, isn't that just the way? I also feel like
Buffy has like kind of a zigzag part in this
episode in a way that I haven't seen her have before.
I was like, oh my god, this is bringing me back,
Like it's definitely not.

Speaker 4 (07:01):
Like, yes, her parents just like her blowout was like.

Speaker 3 (07:07):
Yes, it's like, okay, Cindy Crawford, give me some of
that now. Also, Harmony Kendall's hair, I was like, oh
my god, it was like so thick and long and
blonde and like all the way to her ass. I
was like, oh my god, yeah.

Speaker 4 (07:23):
No, this, I sincerely do love.

Speaker 1 (07:28):
I feel like the way like we were just talking
about the costumes, Harmony's costumes are always so right on.

Speaker 4 (07:33):
For the episode, Hi.

Speaker 2 (07:34):
I got eaten by the WiFi monster. Good news. I
found out when I when I ran into the living
room in a flurry, and I was like, I emergency, emergency.
My WiFi cut out to a point that it won't reconnect,
and my roommate one let me use his room, which
was very kind of him. So that's why I changed scenery.
And two was like, oh, we actually have a WiFi
extender coming tonight, so hopefully it's huge.

Speaker 4 (07:56):
This is major.

Speaker 2 (07:57):
Where I cut out was way back when Lena was
telling Claire how much she loves When Claire does the
impression of the Buffy character who has not been introducing, you're.

Speaker 3 (08:07):
Well, you're literally joking.

Speaker 1 (08:09):
Last actually so long because you were frozen for so long.
I thought that was still your reaction phase for a
good two minutes because.

Speaker 4 (08:15):
You were like this.

Speaker 3 (08:16):
Honestly, it scared us, so I didn't want to say anything.

Speaker 4 (08:21):
I was glad.

Speaker 1 (08:21):
Lena finally was like something, something's going on over there,
something's happening. Your names, by the way, on this chat,
I'm just loving and I'm wishing I had thought. We
have Rat Lena, we have Rat Buffy.

Speaker 2 (08:34):
And we have Claire, and I fixed it. Me and
Rat Claire. There we go. So what what are the
highlights of what you talked about since talking about that
TikTok we were?

Speaker 1 (08:46):
I was just explaining that you showed me Buffy like you.

Speaker 2 (08:51):
To watch go Back, Go Back, you were gone? What
were what I was excited about was I was excited
to get the credit.

Speaker 1 (09:00):
I accused you of not being good at watching shows alone.
I did make that accusation because it has happened with
many many shows where you send out what I assume
is like a mass text to just everyone you've ever met,
asking will they please talk about this with you?

Speaker 4 (09:16):
But yeah, me and another friend.

Speaker 1 (09:18):
We were recruited, and once we were recruiting, I have
to say I remember thinking I watched this thing on
our d link TV. It was like a knockoff Roku.
It was so broken. The volume wouldn't work on our
TV at my family's house, like after high school, in
the little in between time like high school, college or whatever.

Speaker 4 (09:39):
And I was a little bit at first. I was
a little skepty.

Speaker 1 (09:41):
I was like, Okay, I don't know, I don't know
about this because just that the it's a lot when
you're that age, and then the prosthetics show up on screen,
you're sort.

Speaker 2 (09:48):
Of like, oh, okay, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (09:50):
And the Aspect Race show was different, you know, it
was like it took me a minute, but then it
was in it. I think there was some times when
I was maybe ahead of you when we were watching
the show.

Speaker 4 (09:59):
That might be all.

Speaker 2 (10:00):
I remember we had a group chat because it was
end of senior year into freshman year of college. Yes,
and we had a group chat, and you and our
other friend did get ahead of me and would just
text in the group chat incredibly cryptic things about like
not giving any specifics, but be like I can't believe
this person came back, but just saying like this person

(10:21):
and the other person would be like I know. I
was freaking out when that happened, and I would have
no idea what you're talking about.

Speaker 1 (10:28):
I love that, or just like a first like just
be like Angel question marks the exclamation point, question mark,
exclamation point like I know you feel like what happened
and we're just.

Speaker 4 (10:37):
Like, that's all I have to say.

Speaker 1 (10:39):
I do remember that because also our other friend really
liked Angel, and I remember everyone kind of ended up. Yeah, yes,
everyone kind of ended up having teams. I will say
I struggle to have my own opinion of stuff when
I'm around another person, like when I'm alone with my
thoughts and I have my feelings, which is what was
good about watching The way I watched Buffy was by

(11:02):
myself and I was able to like watch it and
have my own feelings. But then in the group chat,
I kinda I really struggle as soon as someone says
an opinion of like, yes, exactly, I'm exactly yes, say yes.
But Angel was always one that I was like, I
don't like yeah.

Speaker 4 (11:20):
So she was alone.

Speaker 3 (11:21):
Yeah, I'm happy to hear that. Oh, I want to
know when do you think so you mentioned like it
took some time for you to get into it. When
do you think like was your like moment of like, oh, yes,
I majorly fuck with this, you know I think.

Speaker 1 (11:35):
I mean, I think from the start the reason, I
actually don't think it ever took me some time to
get into it. I think it was just the struggle
of like always being embarrassed of everything I did. And
when I watched Buffy, even though no one was in
the room, I was like, oh, guys, this is crazy, right,
Like that's sort of.

Speaker 4 (11:52):
How I think it was happening. I was like, I
can't be.

Speaker 1 (11:54):
Watching this because like what if my crush walks in
and what if my crush is watching me watch this
like this is crazy, which would be weird because but anyway,
but I think.

Speaker 3 (12:03):
No, I fully understand you for real.

Speaker 4 (12:06):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (12:07):
What the I I'm trying to think of, like what
the actual like turning point would because I'm also remembering
I hated the Master, so like what yea, where where
did I Maybe I was just kind of hate watching
for a while. No, I actually do think it was
probably only like two to three episodes in I watched
the first three episodes like right away, and as shallow

(12:27):
as it sounds, I really feel like what drew me too.

Speaker 4 (12:30):
It was like the fashion.

Speaker 1 (12:31):
I just remember thinking that Sarah Michelle Geller was like,
I don't nothing else happening really mattered.

Speaker 4 (12:36):
I was like, she's the show.

Speaker 1 (12:37):
Her hair is the show, her clothes and the show.
She her acting as a show, her character is the show.
Like it's Buffy.

Speaker 4 (12:43):
It's called out for a reason like this whole Yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:46):
That was That was definitely it because the prosthetics are weird,
but her characters just from the beginning is so likable
that you're I just kind of slowly dived in.

Speaker 4 (12:56):
I definitely liked second season better than first. I think
when I.

Speaker 2 (12:59):
Was watching it, I also when I watched it, I
had just been watching because I felt similarly there was
a lot of campy stuff in season one that as
an adult, I'm like, oh, actually, this is genius and
so fun, But as a teenager, I was like, isn't
this embarrassing? But I when I started watching Buffy had
just recently gotten into Doctor Who, and I think Doctor

(13:19):
Who is similar where Doctor Who has a lot of
like campy, ridiculous stuff, but then it also has like
genuinely really amazing dramatic stuff. Yeah, and so I think
that Doctor Who had kind of prepped teenage me to
like get through the campiness to the more dramatic stuff
that at that age I liked more.

Speaker 1 (13:39):
Yeah, I think that's kind of similar for me, Like
I well, I also just like it was because like
obviously the show's not about me, I get it.

Speaker 4 (13:48):
But where I was in my.

Speaker 1 (13:49):
Life was so like like transitional. In high school, I
was very much I don't know if you're surrounded by people,
so it's pretty easy to like figure out the formula
of what you're supposed to do and were supposed to
act around people. And it was also just like so
coming at a time where I was also figuring out
like okay U now I only help the people around

(14:09):
me that I choose, or like I have to pick
a job, I have to do all these different things.
I think I also was able to accept it because
I was like, well, I like I gotta do what
I want to do. I gotta do this my life
like I do my thing. So I think it was
like same with Doctor Who. I think I was able
to just like actually embrace stuff I wanted to watch
versus stuff that I was like supposed to watch because

(14:31):
there was nobody, there was no one like checking up
on it, whereas in high school it feels like you're constantly.

Speaker 4 (14:36):
Like trying to yeah, like meet the And also I
don't know, I just really, man, I just really loved it.
I have to say I did.

Speaker 1 (14:45):
I did love Doctor Who, but I mean Buffy I
liked a lot more. And I kind of Doctor Who's
a little less consistent. Buffy's just so good the whole time.

Speaker 4 (14:57):
So except for the Mess.

Speaker 3 (14:59):
Yeah, except for the Master. Hate that guy.

Speaker 2 (15:03):
I mean, he's kind of a legend. He's fun.

Speaker 1 (15:07):
I thought also for some reason, like I he acts
so much like Arwin from Zach and Cody, and I.

Speaker 4 (15:13):
Was like, is it him? Like is it literally?

Speaker 1 (15:17):
Like in my head, the Master is Arwin like playing
like this is his what he does.

Speaker 2 (15:23):
And then he likes it's his latest scheme to get
carried in love with him. Is he's becoming a vampire
if you.

Speaker 1 (15:30):
See, if you go back and watch, you will be
like they have the same voice, like the same cadence.
That is that is the same to me, And maybe
that's part of it. It just it was too ridiculous.
I also don't like that he take I don't know,
it's like some of the vampires and this different actors
take make different choices like vocally to how a vampire
would sound.

Speaker 4 (15:50):
You know, some people are like a.

Speaker 1 (15:51):
Little more like, oh, I'm a beast, like that's all
talk and he is so like like he just like
making these sounds all the time that I'm like, got
a grip like please, like, I don't know why. I
just could not take it seriously. I was like Ena, like, En,
we know your vampire. I love, we believe you like

(16:11):
you're selling it.

Speaker 3 (16:13):
Yeah, but yeah, no, I love.

Speaker 1 (16:14):
I loved Buffy and it took on a life of
its own for me for sure, which is not that
common for me when it comes to watching shows with
people like I'm usually pretty like, oh, we we're locked in,
we're watching this together. Buffy was a little more like
if they stopped watching, I would keep watching Buffy for sure.

Speaker 4 (16:28):
Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2 (16:29):
I love that well famously, you watched it ahead. I
think you were the first in the group chat to
finish it.

Speaker 4 (16:33):
Well, girl, I wasn't going.

Speaker 1 (16:35):
You guys were getting ready to go to college, and
I was like, I come back from work and just
be like click. I was like, you guys don't have
futures and potential, but I'm actually like four episodes of
you and Buffy. But that's I think part of what
I liked about it. I mean, we've talked. You guys
talked about that. We you guys talked about the job episode,
and you know, like that comes up from time to time,

(16:57):
like just what it means to be like not a slayer,
but like a slayer in a human world. You know,
she's not living in like a world of fantasy where
everything's like she is supposed to. She's in two worlds completely. Obviously.
All I was doing was trying to figure out, like,
you know, what my life was going to be like,
and everybody does that, but it just it, Yeah, it

(17:18):
really mirrors a lot of stuff like that because you
watch her make decisions and you're like, damn, it's like that.

Speaker 4 (17:22):
It's really like that.

Speaker 2 (17:24):
I think that's what makes the show so fantastic is
that Buffy. Yes, she has like superpowers and she's a superhero,
but she is also an every woman like yes, every teenager,
Yes is Buffy Summers.

Speaker 4 (17:36):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (17:36):
And I know you said earlier like I know the
show's not about me, but I think it is, but
it is. I think the show is very intentionally about
every single teenager and what everyone goes through when they
have to grow up and they start having their own
responsibilities and needing to make choices of their own life
and decide which expectations am I going to try and
reach and which expectations actually don't suit me? And I

(17:57):
need to cast off myself.

Speaker 1 (17:59):
Yeah, and there are so many things I think that
feel and even more so when you're like sixteen, that
feel actually impossible, you know, and as you get away
from them and you realize that they are impossible.

Speaker 4 (18:12):
But you know, in high school the.

Speaker 1 (18:15):
Big one, I feel like it's like college and jobs,
you just cannot You're like, how would I, like you
want me to go to this place that's far away
you want me to How am I going to pay
for this thing?

Speaker 4 (18:23):
Like it?

Speaker 1 (18:24):
There's just so many things that feel really impossible, Like
you cannot visualize your future because you just never thought
you'd grow up. You know, You're you're like really thought
that like suddenly you would have the grown up life,
but there would not really be a transition, Like you
just can't see how you're going to get there. And
with Buffy, she really can't see that either, because she,

(18:46):
you know, she is she has to be in the
moment because the current crisis is that she's dealing with
are like they're so all encompassing. But like you said,
Buffy is she is everybody. Buffy's kind of like the
classic example of you know, like, oh, she's not like
the other girl, and she's like, I am like every
single girl. That is exactly what I'm like, that is
who I am. And like I think part of what

(19:07):
she keeps well, she keeps it a secret because she
has to. But like also I think she's just very
much wants to be She so badly wants to be
normal and always did too.

Speaker 4 (19:18):
She was.

Speaker 1 (19:19):
She isn't like a person who picked up a sword
because she wanted to be a hero or got into
deep you know, trying.

Speaker 4 (19:26):
To get glory or something. It really is just like
a fluke.

Speaker 1 (19:28):
She is normal and then this happens is it through
no fault of her own, So that's kind of a
crazy The things they're able to do with the show
are just kind of mind blowing. And also to be
able to watch a show about high schoolers as an
adult and it's still I can watch it, that's impressive because.

Speaker 4 (19:46):
I usually I really struggle, Like usually I'll watch and.

Speaker 3 (19:49):
I'm life so agree.

Speaker 4 (19:51):
I'll be like, okay, Sharon, you got it.

Speaker 1 (19:53):
But yeah, and this one was this episode was interesting
because they kind of have to put like, move Buffy
aside a little bit because it's like going to be
about other people, and it's interesting to see how they
do that with main characters.

Speaker 2 (20:08):
You got a Xander episode. Buffy's barely in this one.

Speaker 4 (20:11):
I know you saw that and you were like, she
is gonna love this.

Speaker 2 (20:14):
She loves And I said, if I know one Xander
Head anyone who was jumping on the bit to talk
about Xander, it is Claire Manning.

Speaker 4 (20:21):
Xander Heads.

Speaker 2 (20:24):
Of course. Of course. Well, speaking of characters, Claire, we
asked you to participate in our tradition of having everyone
who comes in this podcast take open psychometrics. Could you
share your results with us please?

Speaker 3 (20:37):
And have you taken this quiz before?

Speaker 1 (20:38):
No, I didn't know what Oh my god psychometrics was.

Speaker 4 (20:42):
He sent it and told me to filter.

Speaker 3 (20:43):
And I We're obsessed with this quiz.

Speaker 1 (20:47):
It was stressful. Some of the questions are so weird.
They're like are you coy or hungry? And you're like,
it's just like, I don't know I've never taken it.

Speaker 3 (20:59):
I love the one that's like our you dirty or clean?

Speaker 1 (21:02):
It was like it was like it said something weird.
It was like stinky clean. I'm clean, I'm not smelling.

Speaker 4 (21:12):
I don't.

Speaker 1 (21:13):
I don't think I've never taken it. I want to say,
guess what you think I am? And Lena you know
me the best, so you can guess first.

Speaker 2 (21:21):
Selena, you go first.

Speaker 3 (21:22):
I'll take I'll take the lead. Yeah, I think you're
a Buffy first, That's what I think.

Speaker 2 (21:26):
I agree with that.

Speaker 3 (21:28):
Who could you be next? What are you think?

Speaker 4 (21:29):
Ian?

Speaker 2 (21:31):
I think you're a Buffy first.

Speaker 3 (21:33):
I don't okay, I think is it a Cordy or
is it a Willow?

Speaker 2 (21:37):
That those were the next two that I was looking at.
Was Cordier, Willow or but then but then, and I
know people feel some type of way about Xander. But
then I was like, it's clear, maybe does she have
is there Xander rising in her? I mean like Xander

(21:58):
as far as like what his intent is in this
show is that he's like the heart of the group,
and he also is like supposed to be a laugh riot.
And I do feel like Clay, you got a lot
of heart and I do think you are genuinely a laugh, right.
I think you're like one of the funniest people I know.
I do think you're Buffy first. I could see a
second place Xander personally, so.

Speaker 1 (22:21):
I I do want to say first that I actually
do think, Oh, I hope this isn't this is gonna
be something that comes up in the future.

Speaker 4 (22:29):
It gets me canceled.

Speaker 1 (22:29):
I kind of relate to Xander the most.

Speaker 2 (22:33):
I'm glad that you're on this podcast. Okay, I'm glad
that you're on this podcast.

Speaker 1 (22:37):
Because like I'm not like obviously like I'm not a creep,
but I do know what it feels like to make
I do feel like I'm constantly looking back at decisions
and being like.

Speaker 4 (22:45):
Like, you know, why did I do it? Why did
you do that? Yeah? If I know, but I got
I got Willow Rosenberg.

Speaker 2 (22:54):
I love that.

Speaker 4 (22:56):
So that was trying to be crazy wow, But I'm
never I'm like, did I do it right? Do I
don't know? I don't know. I would be interested. I
should maybe take it another a couple of times because.

Speaker 1 (23:10):
I I see it why like I get.

Speaker 2 (23:14):
I see inaccurate.

Speaker 1 (23:17):
I think there. I think I'm so stuck on like
her as a character. I think there are a lot
of comparisons as far as like confidence and like like
she doesn't always trust what she wants, and I do
think that that's very similar to me. And I think
it probably when I answered the quiz, I put a
lot of them in the middle, and they were like, girl, yeah, Willow,

(23:38):
she doesn't know what's going she doesn't know what's going on,
like will I know what's going on. But now with herself,
like people ask Willow and she's like, oh, well.

Speaker 4 (23:46):
Don't ask me. I don't know anything you want me.

Speaker 3 (23:48):
But no.

Speaker 1 (23:49):
I just think that with every one of these quizzes.
But I saw it and I didn't think it was
like an outrage. I was like, yeah, I really lost
my train of thought. I was going to make a
joke about how Oz is in a band, my boyfriend
is in a band, and then I couldn't think of
anything funny about that. I was like, no, I really
do like it. I liked Willow in the beginning. I

(24:10):
mean I liked all the like I would I liked
all the characters. The only one I would have been
like annoyed at is if it said like Angel.

Speaker 4 (24:16):
I would have been like, oh, I would have been like,
I'm not coming on the show also hates me, Oh
my god.

Speaker 1 (24:23):
And they gave me a really depressing one before I
filtered it, and I was like, Okay, who.

Speaker 2 (24:28):
Did you get because you wouldn't.

Speaker 4 (24:29):
Tell meant.

Speaker 2 (24:37):
Her family.

Speaker 1 (24:39):
Still the pictures like her before she before she cuts her,
She's like that was really flattered. I was actually like,
maybe that's why I feel like I didn't deserve it,
because I think Willow is just so like she's now
like a perfect person, but she's she's she's pretty much
she's very very very very very like true to like

(25:02):
her friends, and so it's kind of hard to believe.
She's very smart and she's very capable, so you're sort
of like, gosh, could I really be?

Speaker 4 (25:09):
But it's an all of them are repay mantle a
heavy crown to wear.

Speaker 1 (25:14):
That is the character that I don't I think you
asked me also earlier, if I have a favorite character,
I think I relate to Xander the most. But I
think I think Buffy is my favorite character. I think
if I'm trying to decide a favorite character, it's usually
like other than Buffy, Like I you know, I'm like well,
obviously Buffy.

Speaker 4 (25:31):
She's the obvious choice. She's my favorite. So the trio
ends up.

Speaker 1 (25:35):
It's it's a perfect It's like relate who I am,
who I love?

Speaker 2 (25:40):
Yeah, I love that who you are, who you relate to,
and who your favorite is? There you go, I love that?

Speaker 3 (25:47):
Who is your like number two?

Speaker 1 (25:49):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (25:50):
How do I see that?

Speaker 2 (25:52):
It should when you have the results, it should like
put them in order.

Speaker 4 (25:56):
I would have to like, would you have to read
take good about the screen?

Speaker 3 (26:02):
I'd have to like, look at that's okay.

Speaker 1 (26:04):
I got seventy one percent though, so it wasn't like
super super super super high. I should really have to
I looked at it and I saw the dots, and
I screenshoted it, thinking like I'll reference it. And now
I'm realizing, like I'm recording on this thing. I was
gonna reference it. So we're gonna, yeah, we're gonna hold
everything in suspense, and we're just gonna say that I'm
all Willow.

Speaker 2 (26:25):
She's all Willow, zero percent on every other character. She's
just please welcome to the podcast, Willow ros Berg. I
love yeah, I Willow.

Speaker 3 (26:37):
Do you have like a favorite season or like a
least favorite season? No, context.

Speaker 4 (26:42):
I have a least favorite season. I have a least
favorite season.

Speaker 3 (26:46):
Okay, spell Okay, Spell Okay Spell.

Speaker 4 (26:48):
Wait.

Speaker 1 (26:49):
I don't know if I'm having it, if I'm remembering
it correctly, but it's like, I think.

Speaker 4 (26:53):
It's season six. The one I think of okay is
that the season where.

Speaker 2 (27:00):
Talking broad strokes here and if you there's this.

Speaker 1 (27:05):
Like a really big thing that happens, and then that
person has.

Speaker 4 (27:08):
To deal with that thing.

Speaker 1 (27:10):
Oh no, it was more like it's more like seven
kind of. It's yeah, I would say like six into
seven is like my least favorite couple thing kind of
at the end of six, there's just this is on
rewatch though, because there's just some things that happen that truly,
I don't think it's a bad season. It was just

(27:33):
so hard to watch certain things, and it was it
was hard to go through another episode of the same
problems that we've been dealing with and no resolution, which
is be good because like you.

Speaker 4 (27:45):
Know, it's such a long running show.

Speaker 1 (27:46):
It's very difficult to run along to write a long
running show without you know, you have to up the
anti constantly, and it's impossible to do that without the
audience getting so fatigue that they're like another bad thing,
like we get it, yeah and yeah, So I think
it might be good because you know, you do get
kind of spoiled with TV a lot of times, like

(28:07):
they do resolve stuff in a couple episodes, and when
something when an arc really goes and you start to
really feel it, it can be hard to watch, but
good because it's like it's more realistic because that is
how long that would take to fix that thing.

Speaker 4 (28:21):
But that one I was just like enough, I was rioting.
I was like leaving the room. I was like I
can't do this anymore, but like enough.

Speaker 1 (28:29):
But then any of course that the freaking season one
is not it's a favorite for nostalgia, but the Big
Bad in season one, me.

Speaker 4 (28:39):
And him are beeving, Me and Arwin cannot. I cannot
take it.

Speaker 1 (28:42):
Seriously, every episode that is not about the Big Bad,
I'm like, whoa every scene, and then every scene that's
about the Big Bad in season one, I'm like, give
me a break.

Speaker 2 (28:52):
Do you have a favorite season off the top of
your head, one that you remember the most fondly.

Speaker 1 (28:56):
Probably five, Yeah, that's our favorite show.

Speaker 4 (29:01):
Five. I am really bad at not like.

Speaker 1 (29:05):
Paying attention to my seasons, even when we first watched
the show or like later Ian would send me text
and be like, oh, remember this thing from this season. No,
I don't like if you reference in the season, I
don't remember when that happened because it's just one long show.
But that is the season I always consistently remember liking.

Speaker 4 (29:23):
I remember it being good.

Speaker 1 (29:26):
It's just like a I really remember that being a season.
I kind of can't not watch it, like a couple
of days, Like when I start watching the season, I'm like,
we're done.

Speaker 4 (29:33):
I watching this like movies. Now we are not We're
not stabbing.

Speaker 2 (29:37):
I would say, no spoilers. Season five is the most
tightly written season of the entire show. It is the
season where they most clearly had a plan and every
episode is all culminating into one big hole at the end.
Saying one big hole was not the way to play
that gaping hole at the end of season in season five,

(30:06):
and that's why we like it.

Speaker 1 (30:08):
People get to season five, we're like, and this is
where it gets really crazy. It's excelerated. This is the
season that is a very season. But season two is
I wouldn't say it's like a runner up, but season
two also so much happens because we really like we're
in the show.

Speaker 4 (30:25):
Now where we're moving and we're running.

Speaker 1 (30:28):
I almost said when we were going to start talking
about it, I was gonna be like, oh, this is
the turning point because one of your other episodes, like this.

Speaker 4 (30:36):
Is the turning point. And then you said, but I
think we said about like four episodes. But it's like.

Speaker 2 (30:43):
When she goes rat, that's a turning point for the
rest of the show. Buffy has been a rat at
some point.

Speaker 1 (30:49):
And after this, her obsession with cheese like only grows,
and then that's where famously Summers is like.

Speaker 4 (30:54):
Seriously into cheese.

Speaker 3 (30:58):
Yes, she would have loved Charcouterie.

Speaker 2 (31:04):
My god head from here on out.

Speaker 1 (31:08):
Looking at the rat in the show and imagining I
could not not imagine it like as Buffy Buffy.

Speaker 4 (31:14):
Out of it's just an actual rat. But in my head,
I was like, she's nailing this, She's nailing this role.

Speaker 1 (31:24):
She transform. That's how I felt. I had to keep
reminding myself, like that's a rat like this, Yeah, I'd
be like it's her. No, the rat's doing an impression
of her, and then it's like, no, it's it's rat.

Speaker 3 (31:42):
I literally felt the same way last night. I think
I watched the episode way too late because I literally
was like damn, Like I wonder, like, of course probably
the spell was broken, but like you know, like is
rat Buffy still really obsessed with Xander? And like what
does that do to her rat brain? Like I would say,
can too far?

Speaker 2 (32:01):
Actually agree with that? I was now because it's not
it's not that a wrap brain possessed Buffy. It's that
Buffy's brain when.

Speaker 3 (32:14):
Came a rap.

Speaker 2 (32:15):
So I actually agree, Like when Xander gets possessed by
a hyena, he's actually like a hyena. So it's like,
if Buffy brain is in wrap body, then like, shouldn't
this rap be trying to kick some ass? Shouldn't this
rap be like obsessed with Xander because it's still under
a love spell? I actually him she was run and running.

Speaker 4 (32:35):
I guess we should talk. Do you guys usually talk
about it in order?

Speaker 2 (32:39):
No, we cannot go all over, but we should do
the behind the scenes info first.

Speaker 3 (32:43):
Yet me talk a little bit about the episode. No,
do never never apologize ever.

Speaker 2 (32:49):
We'll kick you off.

Speaker 3 (32:51):
We'll kick you off. Okay, let me tell you about
the episode and then we'll get back into it. Bait
which Brother Didn't be Willed is the sixteenth episode of
the second season and the twenty eighth episode overall. It
was written by you guessed it, Marty Knox and that's
our girl. She's really like on payroll.

Speaker 2 (33:13):
Every other episode to get the knock on her door
and got another one in you.

Speaker 3 (33:19):
Marty, Please girl, I'm gonna tell you. It was directed
by It was directed by James A. Canter or Conter,
and it originally originally broadcast February tenth, nineteen ninety eight. Obviously,
the title of this episode comes from the song be
which Bothered and Bewildered by Rogers by Richard Rogers and

(33:43):
Laura's Hart. You know the song sing it for.

Speaker 2 (33:47):
Us be Redick can Son. That's that's awesome. It's Claria
you earnestly singing this song Rogers and Heart song.

Speaker 4 (34:06):
I don't know what this song is.

Speaker 2 (34:07):
I do know, young, No, I do know it. I
just I have Mushchicken's son so deeply ingrained that I
cannot sing the Rogers and Heart version.

Speaker 3 (34:16):
I remember I sang this song for like a voice
class test or something. You know how those yeah, so
jury know this song for jury vocal not remember vocal
Jery's thank you, thank you, thank you. So Ian already
knows this, and I'm actually so pissed that you already
know this.

Speaker 4 (34:36):
Claire.

Speaker 3 (34:36):
If you don't know this, I'm excited to tell you,
or if anyone else doesn't know, this is super awesome.
Do you know why Buffy turns into a rat this episode?
I'll tell you. It's because Sara Michelle Geller was hosting
SNL this week, so she had to go and they
had to literally turn her into a rat to get

(34:56):
her off of this fucking show.

Speaker 2 (34:58):
Oh my understanding is that the next episode, Passion, was
slated to film this week and then she got the offer,
so literally they wrote this entire episode as like, we
need Sarah Michelle to be offset for the whole week,
pushed Passion back a week and then gave for the
week off, had her film all her scenes in like
one day, gave her the rest of the week off.

Speaker 3 (35:19):
I kind of for it being probably super like thrown
together really quickly. Oh, it's kind of gaggy.

Speaker 2 (35:28):
I think the same thing. I'm like for this to
have been like a hail Mary, we need to give
our lead a week off. We have to come up
with something. This is I think one of my favorite
episodes of the show. They really Marty did her big
one with this one.

Speaker 3 (35:42):
I'm so glad you think that, because I I think
it's just especially like Marty, to put this together in
a couple of days.

Speaker 2 (35:51):
You got the generation.

Speaker 4 (35:55):
Yeah. She she just like went into a fugue state.

Speaker 1 (35:58):
Her eyes rolled back in her head and she just.

Speaker 4 (36:04):
And they're like, don't borrow.

Speaker 3 (36:09):
She's like, I can get a rout.

Speaker 1 (36:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (36:13):
She's like, I can get around.

Speaker 1 (36:14):
Immediately before they're like, we need you to write that,
she said, I can get a round. They're like, what,
don't worry about it.

Speaker 4 (36:19):
I have a rat.

Speaker 3 (36:21):
Like trust me, trust me, I've got a rat. Oh
my gosh, I love that. Okay, Giles is reading this
book called Psychopathia Sexualists. This is a book written in
eighteen eighty six, and this book coined three terms, three
terms that we use today girl sadism and masochism, period

(36:47):
period and bisexuality. Oh period and listen, bisexuality like is
borrowed FuMB plants. But he was the first person, this person,
let me give him. His name is Richard fairhir Vaughn Kraft, ebbing, He's.

Speaker 1 (37:07):
Like and sometimes so the sexuality, and they were like, He's.

Speaker 3 (37:14):
He went into a fugue statement he was writing this book,
Marko was taken over by his ghost, Sir. That's seriously,
so I know. And so Giles is reading this book
and he's reading all about sadism and max masochism and bisexuality. Obviously,
I think this book is actually I don't really know honestly,

(37:39):
but how awesome is that? That is the Maybe we
should read it, maybe Matreon, let me know. Should we
read this book? Okay? And now we've got a band
playing at the Bronze. Cue my jingle please.

Speaker 1 (37:55):
He's playing.

Speaker 3 (38:01):
Dingoes Ate my Baby is back on stage for the
first time since inca Mummy Girl. And again all of
the dingoes Ate my Baby songs are performed and written
by the band Four Star Mary, and this is their
song pain hack Ye. Now let me tell you some
of the alternate titles, the international titles. These are heaps

(38:25):
of fun. Get ready okay, So here are the ones
that aren't bewitch, bothered and bewildered. Okay, the Swedish is bewitched,
concerned and confused.

Speaker 2 (38:38):
Can you sing that for us?

Speaker 3 (38:39):
Lina be Witch, Concerned and confused. The French, it's called
a puzzling charm, German, the Love Spell, Hungarian, I'll sing
this one for you too, witch Craft, calm cation, an annoyance.

Speaker 2 (39:01):
That's the front runner right now. That's really good.

Speaker 3 (39:05):
That's awesome. Italian Manhunt, Japanese Crossed Love, and Polish is
focus pocus on Valentine's.

Speaker 2 (39:17):
Day, which is why the Sanders and sisters are in it.

Speaker 4 (39:20):
Exactly, are.

Speaker 2 (39:24):
Man like Manhunt kind of good?

Speaker 4 (39:27):
At first I was like, and then I was like, wait, no, I.

Speaker 3 (39:31):
Think they're hunting that man.

Speaker 2 (39:33):
I think that's probably the most clever of the international titles.
But damn Bewitched, Confused and annoyance, complication, and that's really strong.

Speaker 3 (39:47):
Honestly, these were really making me laugh. I mean, like
I feel like this one too. So many of them
are be which bothered than bewildered, but so many of
them are like so different.

Speaker 2 (40:00):
Also, this is a title that only works in English,
and that it is one an alliteration and to a
reference of a popular song. It's like that doesn't translate. Yeah,
So I like that. You know, everyone's just kind of
putting their own spin on it, which I wonder if
that title. I wonder if Bewitched complication annoyance is alliterative

(40:22):
or like rhymes or something in that language. What language?

Speaker 4 (40:25):
Oh yeah, this.

Speaker 3 (40:26):
One is Hungarian.

Speaker 2 (40:29):
Yeah, it's all That's probably why they swapped it out.

Speaker 1 (40:33):
Oh my god, that does make sense that it would
could be like, yeah, that it would be not it's
not like a rhyme to us, but then it's it
is to them.

Speaker 3 (40:42):
I love if I knew how to read any Hungarian
at all, I would read it to you because it
looks gorgeous.

Speaker 4 (40:50):
I'm looking at it. I'm thinking that sounds that would
sound great.

Speaker 2 (40:54):
Yeah, serious, that's stunning. I'm sure.

Speaker 3 (40:58):
All right, those are your slack?

Speaker 2 (41:00):
That fabulous. I have a recap, and I know that
my Wi Fi crapped out, and I'm the reason that
we had a poster for a few minutes. What if
I was the reason we had a poster a few
minutes again and we took a bathroom brickham So sorry.

Speaker 4 (41:09):
No, that's good, I can do that.

Speaker 2 (41:11):
Okay, I'll be right back, and then we will recap
one second previously on above the Vampire Slayer, It's Heartbreak
Hotel on Valentine's day, when Cordy dumps Xander to impress
her popular friends in order to get emotional revenge, Xander
teams up with Amy Madison, remember her who's following in

(41:33):
her mother's witchy footsteps. He casts a love spell so
that Xander can break up with Cordy, but oops, it misfires,
and hits every girl in Sunnydale, but Cordelia. Soon, everyone
from Harmony to Drusilla hates Cordelia and can't get enough
of the zandman. Giles forces a love struck Amy, who,
in a jealous rage, turns Buffy into a rat to

(41:54):
help him reverse the curse and de ratify the Slayer.
While Xander and Cordy run from the town's women, who's
love posession has turned murderous, the curse gets reversed, Buffy
gets de ratted, and with a new appreciation after their
near death experience, Cordy tells off her friends and gets
back with Xander. And that's what you missed on Buffy
the Van And that's you missed on Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

Speaker 3 (42:14):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (42:15):
He wish bothered and bewildered, be set, be fuddled, and
be left.

Speaker 3 (42:19):
That's what I bef Seymour left. All right, y'all, I
have to say, obviously, if you take anything away from
this podcast, don't don't don't love spell your friends, don't
spell your the people you're dating. Don't spell the people
who are bringing up with you.

Speaker 2 (42:35):
That's not right.

Speaker 3 (42:36):
All that being said, I really think this episode is
so fun.

Speaker 2 (42:40):
It's an al Teimer.

Speaker 3 (42:42):
Yeah, so fun. I think the thing too, that I
can I feel like I'm watching the all of the
episodes like through the lens of like a real Xander hater,
and I understand, like it is not right the things
he is doing, although like he genuinely is paying for
the things that he is not doing right, and the

(43:04):
way that Giles talks to him, like this is the
single worst thing anyone could do to anyone ever. So
I'm like, well, of course this is bad. We all
know it is so bad. So like let's enjoy get it. Yeah,

(43:25):
so you know, like the consequences are there, yeah, Claire, please,
I would love to know how you feel about this
episode first before Ian So.

Speaker 2 (43:35):
I do so.

Speaker 1 (43:36):
I do like this episode. I think this episode is fun.
That's like how I would say it. I don't think
there's anything wrong with the episode. I think at first glance,
for me, it's a little like, I mean, the xandrovit all,
you're like, okay, you know what I mean, Like you're
just like.

Speaker 4 (43:48):
Saying weird things.

Speaker 1 (43:50):
But I feel like it's one of those episodes that
I don't know if it's like I'm reading too much
into the show and I'm like, I had Cannon a
lot of like no, but actually this is what he means.
But I like this episode because and I don't sounds
like I had to write it super fast. I don't
know if it was intentional, but I do feel like
it explains the Cordelia Xander thing a little more like

(44:14):
for the people who aren't a fan of I love them.

Speaker 4 (44:16):
Because I'm like, I don't care if they fit. I
just was like whatever.

Speaker 1 (44:19):
But I think it puts the two of them, even
though it's a Xander episode, it puts the two of
them in a position where you they're both kind of
doing they both make a decision slash mistake for the
same reasons, basically like they you know, Cordelia really really
wants she just doesn't want to be alone, Like she
just wants to be to have friends, even if they

(44:41):
don't unders understand her. She's like, that's fine. I like,
I just need to have friends. I can't be by myself.
I can't be alone. And I feel like that's also
Xander wants to be liked.

Speaker 4 (44:50):
They both want to be liked.

Speaker 1 (44:52):
So in her case, she is so desperate for this
that she sort of like rashally makes a decision. And
then he also is so desperate for this, he kind
of rashly makes a decision. And I also do find
it interesting that in the episode, again, I don't know
if this was like I think a lot of times.
In this case, I read it a little bit as
like Xander maybe doesn't even feel the way he is

(45:15):
saying he feels about Willow and Buffy, but he's just
so used to that being his script. I guess that
then when this happens and he loses his friends, he's
said that he lost Cordelia, but now he has no friends,
even like he does not have so he's sad about
losing Willow because she's his best friend. Right, So in
my head, I'm like, Okay, he keeps acting like the

(45:36):
only other person I'm interested in is taken, So that's
why I'm with Cordelia, You're like, that's a weird reason.

Speaker 4 (45:42):
Don't say that, that's a weird thing to say.

Speaker 1 (45:44):
But in my head, if I'm trying to make him
a better person, I'm thinking it's just because he doesn't
like that. They're pulling away like they've always had adjust
each other and doesn't matter what anyone else thinks, because
they have each other and now he doesn't have her.
And then in this episode it's like that, to be extreme,
she's even attracted him, which could be good, but he
has completely.

Speaker 4 (46:03):
Lost his actual friend. Yeah, and that's the real fear.

Speaker 1 (46:06):
So I feel like then you understand Cordelia and Xander
a little better why they're together, because they're both people
who are maybe misunderstood because of their own actions. But
the reason they act that way is because they're trying
to keep people around.

Speaker 4 (46:19):
Does that make sense.

Speaker 2 (46:21):
Yeah, I think that's a fantastic I think it's a
fantastic point. Something I noticed in this episode is Cordelia
dumps Xander on Valentine's Day in a public space, like
a very humiliating thing to happen, and none of his
friends are there for him, and it is because, like
Buffy frankly has bigger fish to fry, like her her

(46:43):
ex is evil and trying to kill her, and then
Willow it's just simply because will is distracted with her boyfriend. Willow,
I am a little bit like you're being a shitty friend, Buffy.
I understand where she's coming from. But the reality is
Xander just got dumped by his girlfriend. That is a
hard thing for anyone to go through, beecially when you're
sixteen and no one is there for him. No one

(47:04):
is like, let's hang out, I'm so sorry that happened.
Like he's completely left alone with the school laughing at him.
And I really like what you're saying, Claire, that it
is like less Oh, I have these huge feelings for
Buffy and more like I feel so alone and the
people that I used to rely on are suddenly not around.

Speaker 3 (47:24):
Yeah, oh my god.

Speaker 2 (47:25):
And now I just like I need anyone to be
there for me. I need something to make me feel
like I'm not alone, even if that is like humiliating
my ex girlfriend, so that I at least like can
take some of the power back.

Speaker 1 (47:39):
Yeah, and I think I do think he is kind
of a little bit of a skiz ball.

Speaker 4 (47:44):
So I don't want to absolve him completely and be like.

Speaker 1 (47:46):
But he's so weird, but I do think, yeah, like
even the fact that the way that the breakup happens
isn't necessarily like super super shitty, like she she isn't
super mean to him.

Speaker 4 (48:00):
She feels bad, she gets.

Speaker 1 (48:02):
She takes, she gets the gift and does the right
thing right right away, just being like, whoa, you know
it's not gonna work. I mean, she's a teenager and
she says we don't fit, which is like not cool,
but it's a it's a pretty standard break There's really
isn't anyone to blame this situation, but it still.

Speaker 4 (48:14):
Sucks kind of a thing.

Speaker 1 (48:16):
And obviously they're yeah, Willow and Buffy occupied, but you're like, well,
you know you're supposed to be his friends.

Speaker 4 (48:21):
His his other friend's gone. He died episode two.

Speaker 3 (48:25):
So that was jes Z May.

Speaker 2 (48:29):
Literally always talking about on this show.

Speaker 1 (48:32):
Yeah, I don't they're also it's kind of surprised. It
surprised me how mean they are to each other during
when they're broken up. I was kind of like, yeah,
the whole time I was feeling a little said.

Speaker 4 (48:41):
I was like, you can't take that back.

Speaker 1 (48:43):
And then they It is a little weird at the
end when they right away kind of click in, but
I assume it's just because they kind of both they
both learned the same lesson, Like they're like, I see
where you're coming from.

Speaker 4 (48:53):
I was also doing that, you know.

Speaker 1 (48:56):
I just think there's more there that builds on the
show that even though it's not about the episode, like
it's not her centric and it's just Xander, I think
it builds a lot on where Cordelia is coming from,
and like I already loved Cordelia, but it is I'm
glad that they you know, it's that would be hard,

(49:16):
that would be really difficult to suddenly have all your
friends treat you like you're super like everything she says.
They treat her like she's weird. They don't want to
talk to her, they don't want to sit with her.
That that's all her friends. She's had those people, She's
known those people for years. So it's a rash decision,
but I was glad that they kind of I think
it tells the story of how like Cordelia also has

(49:38):
high school problems going on, Like she has things that
she you know, struggling with or whatever.

Speaker 4 (49:44):
Even though they seem super small, and then she decides
to go her own way, and we're all so proud
of her because we knew we had it, she had
it in her.

Speaker 2 (49:54):
And we are always seeing Cordelia from the Scooby's perspective,
so in our mind it's like, oh, she's joined the group,
she's found into community. But like for Cordelia, it's these
friends that she's had her whole life. She actively is
like having a falling out with them. And while I
think the Scoobies are better people and therefore better friends
to have, yeah, it still is extremely hard to be

(50:16):
rejected from a group that you've been a part of
for like the entirety of your life, or.

Speaker 1 (50:22):
To realize that they that you don't like them anymore either,
you know, like it would be really hard because if
you grew up with people and you were just kind
of or she had maybe like she's changed as a person,
and when you're out, when you change and you grow
into different, you know, you grow apart. That is that
is also really hard because you have all this history.
So in her case, it's like, well, you know, I

(50:45):
don't know, maybe they're not good people. But that's also
hard to realize, like you're you're kind of like I
don't want to know.

Speaker 4 (50:50):
They're my friends.

Speaker 1 (50:51):
They're not that bad and they are sincerely so mean
to her, And all of the scenes with them are
so funny, like when they when they like love Xander again,
She's just like, what do I have.

Speaker 4 (51:04):
To do to please you people? She just like screams
that out.

Speaker 1 (51:08):
It's so real, Like she doesn't even say anything super clever.
She's like, what do you want? Like, what do you
want out of me?

Speaker 3 (51:16):
My god? And they really beat her ass like it
gets It was scary. I was like, who's the one
later on set like this is scaring me.

Speaker 1 (51:28):
No, that was a lot when they first like push
her up against the locker and you're like, okay, it's
a it's a fight. And then they're like, no, we
are going to kill her with our with our hands,
our beds.

Speaker 4 (51:40):
We are going to her apart.

Speaker 3 (51:43):
He comes out and holding hair. Crazy.

Speaker 1 (51:47):
There's the lunch ladies there, the lunch ladies there, they
get knives.

Speaker 4 (51:52):
It's not it's not good.

Speaker 2 (51:54):
I love one, of course. I love Harmony Kendall. She
is like maybe my favorite recurring character in this entire show.
I just love a like follower, mean girl. I find
that type of characters so fun. And yes a sheep
is as Cordelia says, you do everything everyone else does
just so you can say you did it first. I

(52:15):
love that line, but I'm I love the episode starting
with Harmony making fun of Cordelia for dating Xander, and
then Cordelia breaks up Xander. Then the love curse happens,
and then Harmony confronts are like how could you dare
hurt Xander? And like you guys were saying, Cordelia is
like what do you want? Like you guys told me
to break up with him? Like what are you talking about? Yeah,

(52:36):
and then Harmony goes only a sick pup would let
Xander get away no matter what her friend said, like.

Speaker 3 (52:43):
Kind of truth, like kind of truth.

Speaker 2 (52:47):
Just that heel turn of being like I may be
the one who told you to do that, but you
suck for listening to me. I think it is so funny.

Speaker 4 (52:57):
That's all it took.

Speaker 2 (52:59):
She's like girl, I just like obviously Cordelia is the
better character because Cordelia is three dimensional and like has
a spine and we see her grow, and I like,
like Cordelia better as a character than Harmony. But what
is the reason why I love Harmony so much is
every appearance on this show she is like so unashamedly

(53:21):
a follower, like so willing to switch positions, throw anyone
under the bus for social capital. And I think that
is just absolutely hysterical to watch every time, and it's
really on display in this episode. I really love it.
Oh my gosh at the end when she's talking to
Cordelia about that, like some popular guy who's gonna ask
her to the Pledge dance on Thursday, and clearly's like,

(53:42):
oh my gosh, that's huge, and she goes, yeah, there's
just two other girls he's gonna ask first, but if
they refuse, it's gonna be me.

Speaker 4 (53:49):
Yes, They're trying to be so supportive and for her.

Speaker 1 (53:54):
I kind of felt for her, but that she made
me laugh. I remember making a note of that. I
was like, oh girl, other random. So there's like a
couple of random lines in this that made me laugh
so hard.

Speaker 4 (54:03):
That was one of them.

Speaker 1 (54:04):
Another one is after Xander gets dumb by Cordelia, he
gets to school and he's walking and some random guy
we don't even see his face, goes up to him
and goes nice getting dumped and like.

Speaker 4 (54:15):
Push some of the leads. I'm just like what is
that joke? Like what was the joe?

Speaker 1 (54:22):
Like a Matt Can you imagine finding out through the
grape vine? He's not like texting even he finds out
he gets dumped and he's, my god, that nice getting dumped,
you know, and just leaves and just like god, that's
this is horrible, walks to the hole that was like wow.

Speaker 3 (54:39):
I know, and like what did the phone tree look
like that night? Like they had to tell everyone like,
oh my god, Xander got dumped.

Speaker 1 (54:46):
Amy is probably just using magic. She's like everybody, you
have to know that this is gonna be great. I
feel like that had to be a placeholder joke that
they were like he he'll just say something like we'll
just add lit bit, He'll.

Speaker 4 (54:56):
Push him, and they could not get any sure.

Speaker 1 (54:59):
Nice, No he's getting dumped, Like, well, what would you say,
Like I would probably say this, I do think that works.
We don't see him, we don't actually get see him
interact with a lot of guys, so it would be
it's it's so sad though, when everyone's like in love
with him. The other thing that made me laugh. This
was maybe one of my best parts was the scene
when he walks into the school after he's done the spell,

(55:21):
or after the spell has happened.

Speaker 4 (55:22):
It was like a day after and the god all.

Speaker 1 (55:27):
Like staring, and then some of the guys are staring
like I'm mad at you because my girlfriend won't stop
talking about you. But then there's a couple where I'm like,
whow wait is this.

Speaker 2 (55:36):
Some homosexuals in the house?

Speaker 3 (55:38):
I said, yea.

Speaker 1 (55:38):
It was his bouncing off of when he first I sincerely,
for like a brief second when he walked into the library,
thought wait, doesn't does.

Speaker 4 (55:46):
Gild's fell in love with him? Because that would be
a problem.

Speaker 5 (55:48):
I'm listen nervous, I can't remember if that happened.

Speaker 3 (55:53):
And then immediately which we're thinking on my part.

Speaker 1 (55:56):
Because he doesn't have a lot of lines at first,
and a lot of times when they do that, like
he just talking and Giles isn't responding, I'm like, oh,
are they about to They're about to shock us?

Speaker 4 (56:04):
But that was another part.

Speaker 1 (56:05):
There's a couple of lines in there like that and
Harmony's that was one of them, because harmony is I
just love a crony that actually, her own motives are
not based on who's the leader, it's that she is
just true to being like a follower, She's like, I
don't care who I'm following. I am just truly like
I'm in it here to be the right hand man
that I have personal motivation to do that. I don't

(56:27):
care if you die or whatever, I'll replace you. I
need to be here. I need to be the sheep.
And that's that's Harmony. She's true to herself.

Speaker 4 (56:36):
But I did feel bad for her though.

Speaker 1 (56:38):
Can you imagine a guy telling you if I get
if two people say no, I ask you.

Speaker 2 (56:45):
I mean, I feel bet for two. She also gets
treated that way because she lets people treat her that way.
Not to victim blame, but like.

Speaker 3 (56:53):
Whoa, whoa, but like, wow, whoa, dude, I'm in victims
out here, gez.

Speaker 2 (57:01):
But like, Harmony's whole thing is she will do anything
you tell her to do, and she has no regard
for how it harms other people. She's just like, well,
as long as long as it harms Harmony, but like,
as long as she feels cool, she has no regard
for another person, And so like, I guess it's shitting
that that guy's doing that to her. But also it's

(57:22):
because she will only go after someone who like is
a popular asshole. Yeah, and you won't actually spend time
with people who like her for who she is.

Speaker 3 (57:32):
Yeah, she's not doing it for like his companionship.

Speaker 2 (57:35):
It's for that she can go to the Pledge Dance.

Speaker 3 (57:38):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (57:39):
Okay, that's true, because in my head I was thinking
about it more like when you would invite somebody to
go to like an after party and they would say, well,
hang on, I need to see.

Speaker 4 (57:45):
If there's gonna be another party.

Speaker 1 (57:47):
Since there's a better one, I'll go to that, Like
you're on the back burner and you're.

Speaker 4 (57:51):
Like, oh, okay, That's how I was thinking about it.

Speaker 1 (57:53):
But I guess it is more like she's been begging
all these guys to like to.

Speaker 2 (57:58):
See someone take me to the Pledge Dance, and one of.

Speaker 1 (58:00):
The guys is like, I will if nobody else will go,
Like if these girls will not go, I will go
with you. But I wouldn't want to be friends with them.
They are so good Britons. They don't even seem fun.

Speaker 3 (58:11):
Yeah, they don't.

Speaker 4 (58:15):
They don't seem interesting.

Speaker 3 (58:18):
Like what do the Cordets do for fun.

Speaker 2 (58:19):
I don't know they should talk to people. I think
they get together and they should talk people. Yeah, they
find out what everyone likes and they decide that they
also like it.

Speaker 4 (58:30):
I actually do think they genuinely just gossip.

Speaker 1 (58:33):
Like I went through a period of time where in
middle school where that's like what we did for a while,
and then we all made an actual pact where we
were like, this is making us all feel bad, we
need to stop gossiping. And I went to a Catholic school,
so there was a lot of you give something up
every year for lent. I remember one year a girl
gave up gossip and I was it changed my life.

Speaker 4 (58:54):
I gave up gossip too. We could not believe she
came up with the.

Speaker 2 (58:58):
Gossiping.

Speaker 1 (59:00):
It was a lot of like randomly sin would enter
the conversation and everyone would start to think, guys, should
we be like changing, But that genuinely for a while,
Like at lunch, that's all people would do was just
sit around and talk about something weird. Someone did something
weirds when wore. And I do think that's what they
do still even though they're what are they fifteen in
this sixteen?

Speaker 2 (59:20):
Yeah, I don't know yeah.

Speaker 4 (59:24):
You forget about Angel this whole episode. I mean I did.

Speaker 1 (59:27):
I forgot about him. He's in the beginning with his eyeliner,
and I do want to.

Speaker 4 (59:32):
Say, that is such an interesting telegraph.

Speaker 3 (59:35):
You talked about the eyeliner.

Speaker 4 (59:37):
He's evil. By the way, this is actually Angela.

Speaker 1 (59:39):
Angela's he bought the eyeliners, so's he's here.

Speaker 4 (59:43):
Zach Began's good.

Speaker 2 (59:44):
Angel would never wear makeup.

Speaker 3 (59:46):
He literally went to the CPS and he said, hmmmm,
a smoky gray eyeliner perfect, and then.

Speaker 1 (59:53):
That yeah, the clerk said, a brownish black is actually
going to appear even darker with your eyes. He said, what,
no way, We'll figured it out. They worked out his look.
So but you forget I do. At least by the
time they're in the top of the house, I was
kind of just waiting for the spell to go away.
I guess I didn't think anything else is going to happen.

(01:00:13):
And Angel comes joints him out of the window. I
was actually shocked. But he also doesn't throw him on
the ground, and he gets somebody just keeps him on
the roof for a second. But in the beginning when
he gives you would like I know, I know it's
a show, but Spike gives Drew an investment piece. He
gives her a jewelry that will last a lifetime. The

(01:00:36):
heart will mold. So if you brought me a piece
of cake and somebody else got me a bracelet, I'm
so sorry, even my favorite cake.

Speaker 4 (01:00:43):
Thank you, but that's not better. But she's crazy, No,
I know what you mean.

Speaker 2 (01:00:49):
That's it the atfort that went into it. You know,
Spike just robbed a Ka Jewelers. But she's like, oh, Angel,
you had to like kill someone in harved this out,
Like that's really an active passion.

Speaker 3 (01:01:04):
I guess so, I mean, to me, he would have
done that anyway.

Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
It's kind of like, you know, he was like, while
I have.

Speaker 1 (01:01:12):
He tortured a person, and then he thought, oh I
can regive this, Oh I can just.

Speaker 6 (01:01:17):
Get It's a regift. Truly, he tried to like that
vampire girl and they just weren't as excited and.

Speaker 2 (01:01:28):
He got it. And he got it at a White
Elephant gift exchange and he was like, oh, I know
the perfect person for that.

Speaker 3 (01:01:34):
Passed around like two times and he's like, actually I'll
steal that.

Speaker 4 (01:01:39):
But yeah, they they are very brief.

Speaker 1 (01:01:41):
I love the twist that Drew is under the spell,
because what is Xander going to do? The writers know
there is nothing we can have Xander do. He kicks
him once and somehow lands that kick, but there is
no world and which angelus or into which evil angel
is the Xander that's working at all.

Speaker 4 (01:02:03):
It's not gonna happen. Yeah, it's not gonna happen.

Speaker 2 (01:02:06):
I And you know, like they solve it by the
girls chase Xander into the house and then Drew can't
enter the house because she's a vampire. Like it's really quick.
Something I love about this episode because you know, the
episode fully was written as Filler was written to give
Sarah Michelle the week off, so like, no big plot
anything happens in this episode because it was not part
of their plans. So the episode is just like, let's

(01:02:28):
have as much fun as possible for forty five minutes.
So I actually don't need it to be anything more
than that. Like I don't need the Drew interaction to
be anything more than that. It is hysterically funny that
Drew saves his life because she's now in love with him,
and then she's like, I'm gonna turn you into a
vampire and you're gonna be my vampire boyfriend forever. That's
so funny. And then I'm fine that then she can't

(01:02:49):
get in the house that she's not in the rest
of the episode because it becomes too compulicated. Well part
of me it because it comes too compulated. It becomes
too complicated. Of like Sander, I can't take down Drew Silla.
He is a rat because Sarah Michelle's in New York
for the week, so we need her out of the picture.
I love that little scene.

Speaker 3 (01:03:09):
I do too. There's also this hilarious moment, Oh my god,
it really tickles me when Drew comes up and she's like,
oh my god, like, never harm a hair on his head.
I love him. And then Angel literally like he's like
like he's really freaked out, and he goes, wow, I
really did drive you crazy. And then he's swiping creeps

(01:03:34):
backwards behind the tree. I was like, oh my god,
he's having.

Speaker 2 (01:03:42):
So much fun. He really know, he was really having
He was the one that he was like, you have
to turn me evil. I can't keep playing this, like
let me have a good time, please. He is eating
up being a villain.

Speaker 3 (01:03:57):
He's really having so much fun. And Claire, I'm sold
you brought up the eyeliner. I'm like, oh like this,
And he and Spike are like both in they're in drag.
Like Spike is straight up, I know he's wearing lipstick.
You can't tell me he's not, like he's contoured to
the gods like I I'm like, they really they're like

(01:04:19):
doing makeovers down here in this space like a party
with these three so bad.

Speaker 1 (01:04:24):
I mean they have like all the day they just
work on their looks. Drew has such a solid look,
she decided, and they have to they have to like
figure out what their voice is fashion wise, they have
to do that out.

Speaker 2 (01:04:36):
Yeah. Well, and they also they can't look at their
own reflection, so you know, Drew's doing the makeup for them.

Speaker 3 (01:04:42):
I love that.

Speaker 4 (01:04:44):
Yeah. Angel said, how do I let people know when
they see me?

Speaker 5 (01:04:47):
That?

Speaker 4 (01:04:47):
Actually, like I'm bad now, And she said, I know
just thing, I know.

Speaker 2 (01:04:51):
Just the thing, the eyeliner. Okay, let's let's widen our
scope a bit. Let's talk about the loves Spell in general.
So Xander, he's humiliated. He goes he finds Amy Madison
from episode three which Our Diva. She's back so happy
to have her back, and he has seen her cast

(01:05:12):
a spell and their teacher so that she doesn't have
to do the homework. And he's like, I know you're
following your mother's footsteps. You are practicing witchcraft. I want
you to help me get revenge on Cordelia and cast
a love spell on her. What are our thoughts about
the conceit of Xander doing this love spell and of
Amy coming back. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:05:34):
I don't like him doing the spell. It freaks me out.
It's too fast and too weird.

Speaker 1 (01:05:37):
And also I do want to say I don't believe
that the teacher could have been blackmailed. So I think
Amy was chomping at the bit to do magic.

Speaker 4 (01:05:44):
I just want to say that. Yeah, oh my gosh,
it doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 2 (01:05:48):
He's like, quick, what.

Speaker 4 (01:05:51):
You're going to say she's a witch?

Speaker 3 (01:05:53):
What She's like, Actually, I wanted to do it, Like
who's saying blackmail? Like, I'm your I want to do it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:59):
Amy is so to turn people into rats. I believe
she's jumping at the bit. That is Actually one of
my favorite bits is her and Buffy fighting over Xander,
her turning Buffy into a rat, and then Jenny walking
in and starting a fight, and her immediately also trying
to turn Jenny into a rat before Gile's cover.

Speaker 3 (01:06:15):
I don't know how to turn girls into.

Speaker 2 (01:06:17):
Rats, so her go to move is just everyone's a
rat now, like, oh, we disagree, you're a rat.

Speaker 1 (01:06:22):
The fact that Amy is very willing to do magic,
she kind of pretends that she's she's gonna fight it,
which is also I think why when he says blackmail
is such an ugly word, she's thinking to herself, like,
I was just gonna do it for free.

Speaker 2 (01:06:35):
She's like, I just needed you to ask me two
more times than I wasn't actually going to say.

Speaker 3 (01:06:40):
She's like, I didn't say anything about blackmail, that's okay, so.

Speaker 4 (01:06:44):
But I'm about to blackmail you.

Speaker 3 (01:06:46):
I personally ship Xander and Cordelia. It makes me very
sad that you know Cordelia, and I mean, I love
her so much, and she is someone who cares so
much about what her friends think and so and like
her standing in the school is so important to her,
and she realizes that this thing that makes her so

(01:07:07):
you know, that brings her joy in this way, is
the only thing that is impeding something she cares so
deeply about so she's like, shit, like, we do not
fit anymore. It does not fit in with my worldview,
even if it's you know, you know, she cares so
much about him, it doesn't matter anymore, Like it doesn't
fit with her worldview. So it made me really sad

(01:07:29):
that they couldn't be together. But I understood where she
was coming from. And damn, he's such a skiz. I
hate Xander's reaction to this. Yeah, I really don't in your.

Speaker 2 (01:07:39):
Face, I am not gonna say that Xander's not a
skies for this. I do personally feel I am shocked
that we are saying, like I understand where Cordelia was
coming from when she dated a guy that she liked

(01:08:01):
who was treating her well because her friend said I
think he's a loser, and we're saying that's totally justified.

Speaker 1 (01:08:09):
It's understandable as like as a teenager, I think that's
actually is what works the best this episode being quickly
makes it well explained. If it was like a whole
episode of her being like, I sincerely get this guy
then doing it, I might be like will.

Speaker 2 (01:08:26):
So here's how I feel. Sorry, Lena, I can let
you finish just because this is what my facial expression was.
But you can finish your thought and then I will say.

Speaker 3 (01:08:34):
This, I just feel like and I understand what you.
I feel like. The two things we know about Cordelia
is this is something she cares so deeply about. And also,
in any relationship ever, if your friends are like your
partner is weird and a loser, it feels awful like
that is not a fun feeling and you kind of

(01:08:54):
have to grapple with like is it himmer? Isn't my
friends like obviously in this situation, straight up bullying him
and that's why, but there aren't. This feels bad either way,
so I and it's like the main thing of her,
her character the whole time has been I care about
being popular, and so I understand where she's coming from.
No justification coming from me, no, no, But I understand

(01:09:16):
where she's coming from. And I do think Xander is
a skis. I understand where he's coming from, But he's
a skiz and to you know, obviously this is just
an episode, but to violate her consent in this way
to get back at her, I understand where he's coming from,
but I can't justify that as either and it is yucky, yucky,
and I don't like to watch it. I like to

(01:09:37):
watch the Hyjienks and Sue and I like to watch
the like, yeah, everything come to a close and him realize,
Damn that was bad. Damn that was bad. It turned
into something I really didn't want it to be. So
I like it in that way. But he's a skiz.
He's a skz. I can't justify either one. I can't
justify another one.

Speaker 2 (01:09:54):
Okay, I agree with that. I agree with I understand
where Xander's coming from, but he's a skiz. And I
understand where Cordelia is coming from, but she is being vain.
She's being, you know, image obsessed, because like I get
your friends don't like your partner and you should really
take a look at it when your friend is fucking

(01:10:15):
Harmony Kendall and she's like she's a diva.

Speaker 3 (01:10:19):
Have you seen her hairs?

Speaker 2 (01:10:21):
She is, but like she's Cordelia is. Although I do
think that Cordelia is too good for Xander. In this episode,
she's breaking up with him for the wrong reasons, and
like that's very much I know. I'm just that's the
reason I have that reaction is the way you worded
it to me, it came across as like Cordelia like sad,
but I totally get it, and like Xander sucks, and

(01:10:42):
I was like, no, they both hear me out.

Speaker 3 (01:10:47):
Girls can do whatever they want. I'm just kidding.

Speaker 4 (01:10:50):
But you know it's not my business. It's not my
business what she wants to.

Speaker 1 (01:10:54):
Do, what he wants to do, that's my business. I
have something to say, gross you and you know what?

Speaker 3 (01:11:01):
Stop?

Speaker 1 (01:11:01):
You know it and you know gross, hi.

Speaker 4 (01:11:07):
Stop leave her alone. That's how I feel. That's how
I feel the whole exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:11:12):
Wake that up.

Speaker 4 (01:11:13):
No, it is gross, it is. It gets less gross
that it doesn't work.

Speaker 1 (01:11:16):
But I hadn't even considered, like I kind of wasn't
considering it working because I remembered it didn't work and
I'm thinking about it and like, yeah, yeah, love spell
is really bad.

Speaker 3 (01:11:33):
Yeah. I mean they even call it like Buffy's like
this is straight up roofy and girls like they are
not in charge of what Yeah they're you know, they
don't have control over what they're doing. They don't they
know not what they do. Man.

Speaker 1 (01:11:49):
I think my only as far as how do I
how I feel about his motivations. I I hate them
like I hate them. I don't have any sort of
I don't really even understand. The only thing that for
me makes it kind of makes sense or like saves
it a little is.

Speaker 4 (01:12:04):
That it is so fast.

Speaker 1 (01:12:06):
It is just like a quick decision sort of thing.
He doesn't have a lot of time I guess to
think it through, although he does like learn the spell
and get a black candle and sit on the floor
and all this stuff.

Speaker 4 (01:12:18):
But like, yeah, I'm hearing what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (01:12:20):
Like I I they're.

Speaker 3 (01:12:24):
At school, I have to break into the school.

Speaker 4 (01:12:26):
Yeah, breaking the school.

Speaker 1 (01:12:27):
But his motivations are really hard to It's like if
it wasn't a love spell, you know what I mean,
then I would understand his motivation because.

Speaker 3 (01:12:35):
He's so That's that's the thing too, Like breaking up
with someone for the wrong reasons and roofying someone one
of these things that is really not like the other.

Speaker 4 (01:12:46):
Yeah, especially because he handles it.

Speaker 1 (01:12:49):
He handles it fairly well, to be honest, Like he
says what I think most people would say in a
breakup situation, you know where she says I didn't mean
to hurt you, and he's like, but you did because
that is how it feels anytimes about her. You're like,
it doesn't mean that I think you should go to prison,
but you did just like actually break my heart.

Speaker 4 (01:13:07):
That that really hurts. I hate that.

Speaker 1 (01:13:11):
Yeah, but it's yeah, it's like, it would be nice
if it could have been something else that he did
that was crazy.

Speaker 4 (01:13:18):
And not a love spell, because that seems even Amy
does warn him. Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:13:23):
Yeah, no, there's a lot of time. He has a
lot of time to say I'll stop doing this. In
the beginning of the episode, but he's being nice to him.
She's going through all this stuff. She's being super sweet.
She's just busy. He says, I would like, oh, you're
gonna still make fun of me for dating Cordelia, and
she she she kind of just says, yeah, I just

(01:13:45):
don't like her and I won't but I love you,
like that's all. She doesn't even try to change her mind.
I just really don't like Cordelia.

Speaker 4 (01:13:52):
Blah blah. But she's busy. Willow's busy. Nobody's really trying
to be mean except for she breaks up with him.
That's mean. That's super mean. Yeah, but it's not enough.
I don't think for him to do what he did.

Speaker 2 (01:14:08):
I'm gonna speak for myself here, and I agree with
everything we said that has been said. I do think
ultimately this episode is a fun romp and it is
at the end of the day, Marty Knoxon wanted a
justification for a fun idea she had, and so like,
I think, like the actual getting the love spell, the

(01:14:29):
love spell happening, I it doesn't hold that much weight
to me, which maybe that's a problem, but like, because
it's just like, we had a really fun idea for
this episode. Xander like gets chewed out by Giles for it,
like the girls actively try and murder him. It doesn't
work on Cordelia anyway. And also, like he says to

(01:14:50):
Amy at the beginning, when Amy's like, well, it's hard
to get someone to love you for eternity, and he goes, well,
I don't want that, and she's like, what do you
mean you don't want that? He goes, no, I just
want to make her feel the way feeling, which is
skeezy and disgusting. And don't get me wrong, but like,
I think it's pretty human of when someone hurts your
feelings and humiliates you to end that strong emotion be
like I wish they could feel the way that I feel.

(01:15:12):
And it's not Xander being like I want Cordelia to
kiss me again, I want her to be my girlfriend again.
It's I want Cordelia to feel what I felt where
she's in love with me, and then I say I
don't love you back, which is still skeezy and gross,
but he is not trying to coerce her into dating
him or kissing him or anything that's true. What I

(01:15:32):
what irritating about this episode is not that because as
I said, yes it is skeazy, like, yes, it's unethical,
but like it's just the inciting incident to have a
lot of fun hyjinks and the hydinks are so fun,
and his intention is to make her feel what he feels.
What bothers me is at the end when Buffy is like,
pat on the back, Xander, good for you for not

(01:15:54):
taking advantage of me when I was root feed like,
that's the bare.

Speaker 3 (01:15:59):
Minimum except big man to not take advantage of a
young girl who's roof.

Speaker 2 (01:16:03):
Like, I'm also glad that Xander didn't take advantage of you,
But I don't think he should be like getting a
metal for it. It should be like Okay, you're a
decent like you are just a you're not evil, like
good for you, you're not actively evil, and then the.

Speaker 3 (01:16:16):
Fact I can't believe.

Speaker 2 (01:16:18):
I like Cordelia and Xander getting back together. I like
Cordelia telling off her friends and being like why am
I literally like, I'm so much cooler than you? Why
do I feel like I need your approval? Like who
the fuck Cares'll date whoever I want? I love all
of that. I hate that what makes Cordelia change her
mind is when she realizes that Xander meant the spell

(01:16:39):
to be on her, Like that actually would actively make
me be like, oh, I made the right decision. I
should up be dating you. Like I think that's stupid.
I like that they get back together. I think that
being the reason that she changes her mind is very dumb.

Speaker 4 (01:16:54):
I feel like they kind of had to have them
get back together that fast. If they had this was
going to be a longer arc.

Speaker 1 (01:16:59):
I don't think they would have how to be the
Disney channel speech and then they're just walk off with
their hands like holding hands. But I liked that they
I mean they had to kind of like I feel
like they had to close the episode. I do agree
his motivations, aren't I do agree with what you're saying,
Like his motivation is to have her be interested in
him and have him be like, No, it's not he

(01:17:19):
isn't thinking past that. I think you're right about that
one hundred percent. And that is it's more of the
actual moment with Buffy, like when he says if you
had any idea what it meant to me? That made
me feel weird too, because I was like, oh, but
also you're.

Speaker 4 (01:17:34):
Supposed to be I don't know. That's messy. I didn't
like that either.

Speaker 2 (01:17:39):
Yeah, it's not like a conniving He didn't have this
like grand plan of like I'm going to make her
my love slave forever. It was a very immature, a
very rash. I feel so much hurt right now, and
I just want to do something to get her to
feel what I'm feeling. Then, like Giles says, do you
know how could you be such a fool as to

(01:18:01):
do something this stupid? And then Xander says, Oh, I'm
twice the fool to do something like this. It is
the acknowledgment when I think that's a funny line, but
it's the acknowledgment of like he's stupid and he literally
didn't put any thought into it whatsoever. He just was like,
I want to get revenge somehow.

Speaker 4 (01:18:16):
Yeah, that's true. I think you're right.

Speaker 3 (01:18:20):
Can I also say, yes, I understand what you're saying
about it being stupid that her realizing that the spell
was for her is the thing that makes her change
her mind. I think it's kind of silly, And there's
something about, like, I love the moments. I love the
moments with Cordelia throughout this episode where you realize that,

(01:18:40):
like it takes a great toll on her to break
up with Xander. Yeah, she cares a lot about him
when he comes back for the locket and she's like,
are you kidding? Like that was a gift and she
pretends to get it from her locker and she's actually
wearing it under her clothes, like she cares deeply for
the sky. And then you know, he immediately is like
taking back gifts from her, like being like and they

(01:19:04):
are like famously pretty rude to each other, So I understand,
but like he's like being really rude to her, and
like you can see the toll that that takes on her.
And then in the basement for her to realize like,
oh shit, he does care. Oh god, I don't know,
Like I like, I kind of like that part, Like
obviously I do think it's stupid, but I think it's

(01:19:26):
kind of silly.

Speaker 2 (01:19:27):
Yeah, and like you want to be with me so
bad that like the black art.

Speaker 3 (01:19:32):
Yeah, and there's also something like, you know, to what
it looks like that he wanted just companionships so bad
that he's willing to put a spell on the whole
town versus that's actually not what happened at all. He doesn't,
he doesn't want it was for her, you know. And
obviously it's skeazy, but it's also like when she realizes like,

(01:19:54):
oh shit, you do care. Oh my god, I kind
of I kind of thought that was cute.

Speaker 2 (01:19:59):
No, I you make great points, Yeah, great point.

Speaker 1 (01:20:03):
It's true because she's really like when it and she
breaks up with him, he's sad and like annoyed, which
is understandable. But then the Lockett scene is that is
so sad because also she's not doing it, because she
is sort of like carrying this thing for him, hoping
he comes back to her.

Speaker 4 (01:20:21):
It is only she knows that she's wearing.

Speaker 1 (01:20:24):
This locket under her clothes, So it's genuinely just how
she's coping through it. You know that she knows she
has it on her whatever. But then when he's mean
to her in that scene, she for Cordelia, she kind
of takes it. I'll be honest, most of the time,
Cordelia does not pull punches, so she's a little off
her game with her insults returning. But you can tell

(01:20:44):
how shocked she is and how hurt she is that
he isn't just being mean, but he's also doesn't have
an interest in holding a conversation with her. He doesn't
want to banter or anything. He's just like, give me
the lock, and I don't care about you. That is
super sad, so I could see why they need.

Speaker 4 (01:21:01):
It's good to have.

Speaker 1 (01:21:02):
A scene where he does reveal I'm not doing that
because I don't care about you. Actually, I am just
really hurt and I wish we were together. And then
she gets to say, oh, okay, well in that case, yeah,
I'm not a sheep, and then a knife comes through
the door and then they gets screaming. After so many
scenes in this episode where I was like, oh, and

(01:21:24):
then something crazy like that would happen, like even Tristilla
going around the back and breaking down the door with
all their hands, just so all they can have all
the other women go.

Speaker 4 (01:21:32):
In, but she can't.

Speaker 3 (01:21:33):
Seeing Jenny, seeing Willow, seeing the lunch lady, seeing Harmony
all in one room. Oh my god, I really like
I was, I was really gagged. I was like, I
bet this day was probably chaos but also maybe so
fun on set.

Speaker 1 (01:21:49):
Yeah, I don't think they were trying to make the
love Spells as like a major They're not trying to
make a commentary on anything. It's really I don't think
that's the point of it. It's more about learning about
these two characters and them grappling with something rough. I
like how they have They describe Willow as still dealing
with it, like that was so upsetting to her that

(01:22:10):
she is still kind of going to take like a
step back or whatever. Because I do think they take
measures in the episode to remind you that they're aware
this is a crazy situation. They're aware that what Xander
did is wild, and Giles is one of them. Him
getting super mad is is a good tell to the
audience that that was not Xander's intention.

Speaker 4 (01:22:28):
We know that this would be bad.

Speaker 1 (01:22:31):
And then Willow being so embarrassed or just weirded out
by the whole thing that she has to like take
a minute. They I think they do a good job
of saying, we know this would have serious repercussions, but
also it's a pretty silly episode because that the motivations
were not really like, he didn't have clear motivation.

Speaker 4 (01:22:48):
He was just doing something.

Speaker 3 (01:22:50):
Yeah, he was just being crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:22:51):
I don't. I mean, I can think of times when
I was a teenager where I did something without thinking
that then had a profound effect that I did not
intent on other people. Yeah, and it was not I
didn't do this thing like out of malicious intent. I
just like sincerely did not consider the consequences of my actions.
And I feel like that is obviously like a love

(01:23:13):
spell is really drastic. But that's because this is a
heightened supernatural universe. Sure, and I think that's, yeah, that's
what this is supposed to be. It's not supposed to
be that Xander was like Conniving had an evil plan.
It is Xander acted rashly without thinking and then faces
the consequences of his actions for the next forty five
minutes of the episode. Yeah, and it's a joy to

(01:23:35):
watch and it's so much fun the entire time.

Speaker 3 (01:23:37):
Yeah, and he's almost eaten alive by a bunch of
girls that I also think that is a genius move
on Marty Knoxon's part to.

Speaker 2 (01:23:46):
Be like, yeah, like the first you know, half of
it is like all the girls like want to kiss him,
but then it quickly turns to if I can't have you,
no one can. Like now everyone just wants to murder
him because they're mad that he won't be with them,
And that is so much more fun than if everyone
at the end was like no, pick me, pick me

(01:24:07):
like them all the lunch lady like with a rolling pin,
Joys with a butcher knife, Willa with a fucking axe,
Like it is so good and so funny.

Speaker 4 (01:24:19):
They you are right. They they kind of skip the
love spell part pretty.

Speaker 1 (01:24:23):
Quick, and we even have Giles saying this isn't love
He kind of explains like, this isn't like this has
on intenned consequences because you're also your His motivations are
not pure, she says, it has You have motivations have
to be really pure when you do a spell like this,
and his motivation is He even says like it's just revenge.
It is pure, it's revenge. And so then that's when

(01:24:44):
he gets out of it. Like you see that that
is exactly what's reflected back. It's like a monkey's paw.

Speaker 4 (01:24:49):
Thing, you know. Oh.

Speaker 1 (01:24:50):
Also, so Buffy, I know isn't really in the episode,
but I did like how they had a couple points
they had with Buffy were to remind us that she
like the fact that literally Giles tells her she might
she might want to stay home and not leave because
Angelus is gonna do something. We aren't really sure what

(01:25:11):
his what he's planning on doing, what he's going to do,
but every single time it's mentioned that he could do something,
would do something, has been something in the past, it's
just deepening the lore of this is he's worse than
we thought. He's not just going to be mean to her.
He's he could do anything.

Speaker 4 (01:25:28):
He could we don't.

Speaker 3 (01:25:28):
Think with the puppy, Oh my god, I hate this guy.

Speaker 1 (01:25:32):
Him reading the thing about the puppy and her saying
move on, and he has to get a.

Speaker 4 (01:25:36):
Whole new book.

Speaker 2 (01:25:39):
There's like so much information about what happened to that puppy.

Speaker 4 (01:25:42):
Yeah, it's just all puppies.

Speaker 1 (01:25:43):
She's like if it's related to puppies, I don't have one,
don't worry about it. And he just says, I will
go get a whole another book. I'll get another book.

Speaker 4 (01:25:50):
This one's not gonna.

Speaker 2 (01:25:51):
He starts to skin Anthology. Got again.

Speaker 4 (01:25:54):
That's not going to be good.

Speaker 1 (01:25:55):
But yeah, Like even the scene with her and Joyce
when she goes through the kitchen and she comes back
to the room, Joyce is gone. You're so scared, and
especially on a first watch your the doors open. They
that is such a short, little suspenseful scene with her
and her mom where they're bonding and then her mom
she answers the door. Her mom's gone. Her mom appears,

(01:26:17):
so then you exhale. But then she gets the box,
it says soon and she of course Sarah Michelle. We
get a close up. She's she's absolutely devastated. They move on,
but they're like these scenes with Buffy, we are going
to remind you things are not going well. They are
not going well. It's really bad. And then she turns
into a rat. Things get better.

Speaker 2 (01:26:37):
Why would she open that box in front of her mother?

Speaker 1 (01:26:44):
I literally thought like weapon, I thought like it could
be like pictures of.

Speaker 2 (01:26:49):
Her last time you opened a box. Last time you
opened a box, there was an arm in it and
they tried to strangle you. Like why you know Angel's
out there, he's planning something. Why would you be like, sure, mom,
let's find out what's inside. You're lucky that it was
just a threatening note.

Speaker 1 (01:27:05):
Yeah, I guess because they wanted us. They wanted us
to be scared. And another like jump kind of thing,
like don't open it. And then she opens it and
it's fine. Also, your your teenage daughter getting a bunch
of roses delivered to the.

Speaker 4 (01:27:19):
Back door and it just as soon and your daughter.

Speaker 2 (01:27:22):
Looks at it like this, She's like, you say, what's
gonna happen soon to your back door? Honey? Was that
so much? I liked that. No, I can take it out,
I can take it out, keep it.

Speaker 4 (01:27:36):
I loved it.

Speaker 1 (01:27:38):
But her her scenes are good too, like it's in.
Even though the episode's fun, they they do add to
the overall season and it adds what we know about
the characters. Oz is still a nice guy even in
this episode. He's still like the nicest, most chill person.
My girlfriend just I just got off the phone. I
talked to Will for three hours last night and she

(01:27:58):
cried about you, and I know how I feel, but
I know I have the stronger to hit you right now.

Speaker 4 (01:28:03):
Then just helps him up.

Speaker 3 (01:28:04):
Bro, That's honor. That is a man's honor for real.
He said, I'm gonna punch you, but I'm gonna help
you up off the ground.

Speaker 1 (01:28:10):
Scene Actually maybe laughs so hard because he does that.
We just need him in the room and we need
him helping and everything. But he gets in the room
and they kind of breeze by that pretty quickly, and
there's they say Buffy's a rat. He just goes, oh,
okay and looks around the rim like, oh, well, I

(01:28:30):
guess we can move on, Like we can move on
from the willow thing. This kind of seems bigger. And
then in the same all the girls are fighting. In
that same scene, Giles goes, be what, we have to
catch the Buffy rat. It's like so soft and he
looks awheund as he does.

Speaker 2 (01:28:46):
I just love how the third act turns into you know,
we're cutting between three events. One is Cordelian Xander running
for their lives against the murders Woman of sunny Dale.
The second one is Giles forcing Amy to do a
magic spell and like, you know, clocks to figure this out,
get to work. The third is just Oz with a
flashlight in the basement trying to find a rat, and

(01:29:08):
we keep switching back to Oz just being like Buffy, can.

Speaker 4 (01:29:17):
Can he know? And then when he finds her and
he turns off the flashlight, King respect minimum, but like
good thought.

Speaker 1 (01:29:25):
Then he has the active thought to be like, oh,
I should probably I should probably know.

Speaker 3 (01:29:29):
Xander wouldn't do that.

Speaker 2 (01:29:30):
Dannak a peek, Yeah, sneak a peek.

Speaker 3 (01:29:34):
Oh my god, I the shoot.

Speaker 1 (01:29:38):
What was I gonna say about the I don't remember
what I was gonna say. Oh can he smell?

Speaker 4 (01:29:44):
Why couldn't he smell?

Speaker 2 (01:29:46):
You're a dog?

Speaker 3 (01:29:48):
Oh my god, you're so right.

Speaker 2 (01:29:51):
Knows we know.

Speaker 1 (01:29:52):
I guess he turns, but it's like I don't actually
know or remember what the what the powers are beyond,
So it's like, I guess maybe not. But that was
my first thought was, Oh, that's why we're sending him,
And no, it's just because he's willing to go into
the basement and he's just.

Speaker 2 (01:30:09):
That would have been crazy. Seth Green on all four
sniffing the ground, being like Buffy, I smell you this way.

Speaker 4 (01:30:17):
It was cool to the effects when they were doing
the spell. It's a little practical.

Speaker 2 (01:30:22):
Oh my god.

Speaker 4 (01:30:22):
Yes, I saw them.

Speaker 1 (01:30:24):
WinCE a couple of times in one of the Well
maybe I'm making this up, but there was one thing
where he's putting something into the beaker and it's clear,
I mean, it's an actual reaction obviously, but he's kind
of shaking it and they lean back and nothing happened
to me. Has to shake it like four more times
and then a little like spec falls and then oh,
what's gonna what's gonna happen? And it's just like a

(01:30:44):
piece of dust that we have. He has to like
do Also Diana, No, I don't think she's the Goddess
of love, but whatever, I'll let it go. Yeah, she's
certainly a famous ant.

Speaker 3 (01:30:58):
So on Buffy Wicki they mentioned that they were like,
they're just saying shrep like that is just that's not real.

Speaker 2 (01:31:07):
Work.

Speaker 3 (01:31:07):
Yeah, exactly. She fucked it up.

Speaker 2 (01:31:09):
Yeah, she fucked it up.

Speaker 4 (01:31:15):
It was crazy and cool, very cool.

Speaker 1 (01:31:18):
I actually kind of love it. Really crazy to have
the adult women be part of it, because they really
could have just said the teens. But Joyce, she was
having fun doing that scene. She was she was really was,
she's been waiting. I actually love that scene when when

(01:31:39):
when she's doing that and Cordelia comes upstairs and maybe
only four seconds past, she shoves her out the back door,
slams the door and.

Speaker 4 (01:31:46):
Like closes it.

Speaker 1 (01:31:48):
She just is not going to deal with it. She's like,
get okay, you get out. They don't try to reason
at all.

Speaker 2 (01:31:53):
That was something I remembered about this episode was that
the spell effects everyone, including adult women. And I was like,
how am I gonna feel about this on rewatch with
the you know, statutory of it all. And I have
to say, obviously it's dicey territory, but like, realistically, if
the love Spell misfired, like it would affect everyone, so

(01:32:15):
I understand, yeah, and they do. In my opinion, they
do a good job of like keeping it as comedic
as possible. Where like Jenny never tries to like kiss Xander,
like yees, she strokes his arm, but beyond that, she
never touches him. She never tries to kiss him. It's
just like she like jumps her hair, like she just

(01:32:36):
like keeps like jostling her hair and making eyes at him,
which is very funny. The Joyce turning Psycho Joyce is
one of my favorite parts of the entire episode. Her
punching through the window and then trying to jiggle the
handle and going, come on, Xander, let Joyce think that
is and I think it's smart. They let Jenny go

(01:32:56):
on a little bit longer, but it's largely because Giles
is in the room, and so therefore we're like, nothing's
gonna happen, like Giles is here, Joyce. They do the
switch up really quick, which I think is smart because
it's just Joyce and two teenagers, so they like have Joyce,
you know, they entertain the choice of it all for
exactly four seconds. Then cordially pushes her out, and then
that immediate switch into her being like psychle killer let

(01:33:17):
me in the house is so incredibly funny, and then
her showing up with a knife in tears, going Xander,
we have to end it. It's never gonna work between us.

Speaker 3 (01:33:28):
So I appreciate too that the only like kiss that
he shares between obviously like Willow tries to kiss him
and like bites his ear, and that part is crazy.
But Drusilla kisses yes yeah in vam face, which I
always think is fun. But it's also like that doesn't

(01:33:52):
bother me as much because Buffy kisses the other vampire
all the time, and I don't know, Like it's also
like Drew is canonically like how young was she when
she was turned y'all know.

Speaker 2 (01:34:08):
I don't think it's ever stated, but it's like twenty, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:34:12):
She's young. I think it's like, a yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:34:15):
In my mind she's one of the adult women. But
that's because she's.

Speaker 2 (01:34:18):
A yeah, because she's the oldest woman in the cast.
I mean, like in oar cast of character is yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:34:25):
I mean it's also chest of like, you know, she she.

Speaker 1 (01:34:29):
Knows, she knows herself, so we think of her as
older because she's so self actualized.

Speaker 4 (01:34:33):
She's like, I know what I'm doing here, exactly gone,
And Drew knows exactly what's going on.

Speaker 3 (01:34:39):
She's an old soul, she knows.

Speaker 2 (01:34:41):
What's My feeling with the entire portrayal of the Love
Spell is this stuff is always dicey because like all
the women are root feed obviously. Yeah, so I think
one you can at least I feel like I can
tell that this episode was written by a woman, because
I feel like you treated very well and the fact
that as soon as Xander finds out that people are

(01:35:04):
the only person he ever entertains is Buffy at the beginning,
when he thinks she's honestly flirting with him. Yes, the
second he finds out that it's a spell, there is
not a split second of Xander being like, wait, this
actually could be fun, Like he immediately is like, oh, fucko, fucko,
fuck this is not what I wanted. This is creepy,
this is gross, this is scary. So having Xander react

(01:35:25):
to every single woman's affections with immediate fear, I think
really keeps it from ever getting uncomfortable. Yeah, and then
I feel like the reason that the Drew kiss does
not make me uncomfortable as a viewer is if it
was like a Jenny or Joyce kiss. Like, sure, obviously
Xander doesn't want it, it's fake, YadA, YadA, YadA, But

(01:35:46):
it would feel like a But are the writers like
maybe kind of glamorizing this like oh sexy cougar moment,
But like Drew is actively in monster face, she is
the scariest woman on the show, and Zan is that
entire scene like he's scared the whole episode, But that
entire scene is like actively shitting his pants.

Speaker 3 (01:36:05):
And he just got yoinked out. He's like out of
the window. It's a crazy too, I don't know what's
going on.

Speaker 4 (01:36:11):
So he's like, that's Buffy's a rat. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:36:15):
No, moment of that scene feels like it's glamorate. Like
there's no interpretation of that scene where it's like, oh,
this is actually kind of sexy. It's like, oh, it's
comedic and scary, like she's in full van phase. He's
like this most scared he's ever been, and it's like
just a little peck.

Speaker 1 (01:36:32):
You can tell. I can also tell the episode was
written by a woman, partially because it does feel that
he is like seeing himself in all of these actually,
like he's sort of gross out by the results of
the love Spell, and in feeling that way, it's because
he is so it's like holding a mirror to himself.

(01:36:54):
He's just so aware that this is these are things
he's joked about. This is how he like pretends to feel, Oh,
I just to like me all this stuff, and then
he feels so different when it's happening that he is
just like, oh, okay, I need like I need everybody
to get away from me. I don't want anybody to
talk to me, to touch me. This is actually gross
and gross out. What I do is bad when I

(01:37:14):
was wrong, et cetera, et cetera. And so yeah, I
do think they do a really good job of explaining
that this is more about him, just.

Speaker 4 (01:37:26):
Not really mmmm like he wants people to like him,
that's really it. He just wants things to go. He
even says it just wants me to go my way once.
It's just a rash decision.

Speaker 1 (01:37:37):
Yeah, he isn't really thinking through that, and he does.

Speaker 4 (01:37:42):
He does readop people every single time.

Speaker 2 (01:37:45):
Yeah, yeah, you make an amazing point. Like he he
being Xander Harris. He has a history of like objectifying women,
of being like, oh, wouldn't it be so great if
just like this girl that I like was into me?
And then I agree with you, Claire. In this episode,
he realized that his lesson is kind of like, oh,

(01:38:07):
actually I would rather have like a hard, complicated relationship
with a girl who like actually saw me and valued
me then like have someone who was so willing to
do whatever I wanted. But what there But it was
because you know, they were compelled to do so, it
was not actually how they felt.

Speaker 3 (01:38:28):
Yeah, yeah, And I mean I also feel like, obviously,
when Buffy comes in a when he puts like the
rolling cart up to the door, that is such a.

Speaker 2 (01:38:40):
Immediately hilarious visual. Hilarious. Oh, putting a desk in front
of a door and it turns out it's a poll door,
so they would even stop it from opening, that is
a hysterical bit continuing, so funny.

Speaker 3 (01:38:52):
But I also feel like, obviously that conversation between Buffy
and Xander is kind of dicey, but I do I
can tell it was written by a woman because frankly,
in moments like this is it is scary like dating
dating boys is scary, you know, like you know, and

(01:39:15):
this is kind of all like too. And obviously the
bar is on the ground that like, you know, he
doesn't want to violate her consent. It doesn't like it
doesn't you know, he doesn't want to do that. But
also that's that speaks to his character, because some men
do not have that part, the part of do not

(01:39:35):
say that in a situation similar, they would not act
the same. So it is nice to see that this guy,
while he makes comments and he is weird and did
this gross weird thing, he realizes like it's not worth it.
Like the the the acceptance and the love that I'm

(01:39:57):
craving is not here. I know it. It's you, Like
and he says like, if you knew what it meant
to me, then like this wouldn't be happening, Like and
I just think, I don't know, like I can tell
this this episode is written by a woman. I really
feel like, especially in those moments, I'm like, Okay, yeah,
the bar is on the ground, but yeah, other men

(01:40:20):
do not act like that.

Speaker 2 (01:40:21):
Yeah, I also true think and this is a larger
conversation to have as we move forward with Xander, is
how much of Xander's personality is posturing? Like how much
of his personality is you know, because he's so afraid
of being laughed at. How much of it is him
trying to be like, well, I don't really care and
I don't really take anything seriously and I'm just like

(01:40:42):
we talked about last week with Larry and how Larry's
a huge asshole. But it's because Larry is gay, and
he is like, how do straight man act? Let me
play a straight man? Like Xander is a huge loser,
and so he's like, how do cool guys act? Like,
this is how cool guys like talk about women. This
is howpol guys talk about themselves, and that is fucked up.

(01:41:04):
Like that's a fucked up thing to say, But like
how much of his comments about like his relationships with
women actually how he feels in his heart and how
much of it is like this is how a cool
guy talks. Yeah, and therefore like I want to be cool,
which once again I'm saying is fucked up, but I
think a large part of it is he's posturing. And

(01:41:24):
then in that moment we see the real hymn, which
is actually like having sex means a lot to me, Yeah,
and I would only want to be doing it with
someone that, like I knew felt similarly.

Speaker 4 (01:41:38):
Yeah, I actually feel that way.

Speaker 1 (01:41:41):
Also about his his like crushes on Buffy and Willow,
you know that are sort of referenced in this episode,
Like we don't really see that with him and Willow
before this, so it's sort of like, I don't know,
it feels a little whenever he talks about Willow way
you kind of are like, what are you talking about?

(01:42:02):
Because that's coming out of nowhere, and I think it's
maybe again not not an excuse, but I do think
sometimes a bit of a confusion of do I feel
that way or am I just do I just not
want to.

Speaker 4 (01:42:13):
Lose this person?

Speaker 1 (01:42:15):
Yes, and then I'm just because of like all these
blearned behaviors and how like a guy would be and
should be, I'm jumping it up to like, oh well
because like you know, she's so hot, that kind of thing.
And with Buffy's a little more dicey. But in this episode,
in particular with Willow, I do think he is like
more aware than ever that he just like they mean

(01:42:38):
so much more to each other than a crush.

Speaker 4 (01:42:42):
They they have legitimately known each other for so long.

Speaker 1 (01:42:44):
I even like, even though it's a creepy scene or
like a hard to watch scene, the scene with Willow
when she says like, come on, I've been like in
your bed before and he says, yeah, but we like
in footy pajamas or whatever, but it does tell you,
like it does remind you they have known each other
for so long. And that is also a moment for
him where he's imagining losing that Willow, like that's not

(01:43:07):
Willow anymore, this is not my friend, and like it's
another you know, it's his room is his safe space,
and then she is his safe space, and then it's
all like she is in his room. She's gonna ruin
the whole friendship thing. He doesn't have anybody and losing
his two best friends in this episode to this like

(01:43:27):
crazy thing.

Speaker 4 (01:43:29):
He doesn't really lose them.

Speaker 1 (01:43:30):
They're attracted to him, and he could be happy about that,
but in reality, it's like that that is losing them
because that isn't what they're actually like.

Speaker 4 (01:43:37):
I actually want to be friends with them. That's the
connection I have.

Speaker 1 (01:43:40):
Doesn't mean he can't be like slightly attractive, right, I know,
when Buffy first arrives it's a little different. But also
the scene with Buffy, you know, Angel's not around. He's
just been broken up with So that first initial contact
where he is leaning into it, I can kind of
understand he's sort of he's in a really low point
and his single friend, who he does find attractive, and

(01:44:03):
he is single. She is now saying, Oh, I've just
realized maybe I have a crush on you, And so
at first I get why he leans into that, and
then he's like, oh yes.

Speaker 3 (01:44:11):
Oh my god, Oh no, no.

Speaker 1 (01:44:13):
No, never mind, I thought this was Buffy coming on
to me as Buffy. But if this is just like this,
you just want to have this very quick, you know,
other type of connection or whatever, like I'm not that,
I'm not into.

Speaker 4 (01:44:26):
So I do think it's like, yeah, it's sadder.

Speaker 1 (01:44:29):
I think they play it like it's kind of sad
for him the whole episode.

Speaker 4 (01:44:32):
He's scared.

Speaker 1 (01:44:33):
Obviously is scared, and that's what makes it funny. But
he is not reacting positively. He's reacting really sadly to everything.
And so that's how when you were talking about him posturing.
I sometimes see some of those comments that way. Not
that it makes it okay, because it's still the behavior,
but some of the comments I see more as him

(01:44:53):
justifying the intimacy and closeness.

Speaker 4 (01:44:57):
And vulnerability that he has with these women. He's trying
to understand what that is. I guess. Yeah, I.

Speaker 2 (01:45:04):
Say this a lot, and it is like at a
certain point, like you can't excuse someone's behavior and like
at a certain point like okay, you have to you know,
you have to change. But also like he's actively a
child at this point in the series. Yeah, and Xander
comes from a very toxic home environment. I think likely.

(01:45:25):
I mean, I know that he has a shitty dad.
I think likely he has a very toxic male dad
who's like men are a certain way. I think likely
he has a dad who makes fun of him that
he hangs out with a bunch of girls and calls
him slurs because of it. Like that would not shock
me at all based on what we know about his
family and what we learn about his family going forward.

(01:45:45):
So it does not surprise me that Xander, being a
child who is still actively in this home, feels like
he has to talk, like he has to justify his
female friendships, and he like has been trained to talk
about women in a specific way way to you know,
avoid his own father bullying him at home. Yeah yeah

(01:46:06):
once again, also at a certain point, like you do
need to learn to be a good person other guys, yeah,
and other guys yeah, yeah, nice job getting dumped.

Speaker 4 (01:46:15):
He's like great.

Speaker 3 (01:46:17):
And I mean we even have that moment in I
don't know what episode that is, but where he's like
sitting with these boys who he barely knows and they're like, damn,
how many times are we fucking? Like a million times? Probably,
you know, and like they're all night and like, you know,
other guys hold each other to this weird standard and
like the locker room talk of it all that is

(01:46:38):
really real.

Speaker 4 (01:46:39):
That is a nightmare scenario.

Speaker 1 (01:46:41):
If I got to if I was projected into the
body of a man, and then I opened eyes and
looked around and I was in a some sort of
like a sparsely decorated apartment with just a bunch of dudes,
I would be like, ha ha, Like even if I
don't want to be a fly on the wall, I've
never wanted to be less a fly on the wall.
If I'm a fly on the wall in that room,
swat me, I do not need to live through.

Speaker 4 (01:47:02):
It is still behavior.

Speaker 1 (01:47:07):
He even says in the episode, I didn't mean to
hurt you, and he says, you did that. It is
true his actions do have consequences. You can't just treat
people however you want just because of how you're treated.
But I do think he is, you know, like, yeah,
he's constantly he's clearly just trying to get approval from
people all the time and he wants people to.

Speaker 4 (01:47:24):
Like him, and I don't know, yeah, he's changing. Maybe
we'll see.

Speaker 2 (01:47:30):
People talk a lot about how Xander like gets away
with murder on the show and like never has consequences,
which I do agree with in specific plot lines. I'm like,
he didn't get consequence for that, But I've seen people
bring that up about this episode that they're like, he
faces no consequence for doing the spell, and I'm like,
will it tries to act murder him, like like he
literally pinned down on the ground with women trying to

(01:47:53):
stab him. I do understand, like I said, I think
Buffy being like, you're such a good guy for not
violating me, But I am like the consequence of this
action is that all the women straight up tried to
kill him.

Speaker 3 (01:48:08):
Yeah, And like Giles screamed, I never yelled at a
girl like this, seriously, like he so killed a girl
like this.

Speaker 4 (01:48:20):
He was rooting for you.

Speaker 3 (01:48:21):
I was rooting for you. We were all rooting for you. Yes,
he's so like so angry, and like there's this moment
too where Giles goes, like if Buffy dies as a
rat because of you, He goes, I'm gonna He says,
he was about to say, I'm gonna kill you, and
I believe it, for I don't I believe it he

(01:48:42):
was going to kill him. I have never I've never
yelled in a girl like this, he was so mad he
to die and not to mention like you Willow too
is like still really upset about it, like everyone involved
remembers all, like every second of it, like it is bad, bad, bad,

(01:49:02):
and I'm sure it's I mean, even if we don't
see it on the show necessarily, like like girl, they're mad,
everyone is mad at him.

Speaker 2 (01:49:11):
I also love you know this episode was it was
written quickly. It is written to just be a fun ROMBP.
I love it, like they had this idea that they're
really excited about. And then I can kind of tell
by the way that Cordelia justifies what happened that I
feel like the writers didn't really know, Like we can't

(01:49:33):
have the rest of the show where like Joyce Summers
remembers that she came on to Xander Harris, like what's
our excuse so for when everyone gets their memories back
and they're all in the basement and Cordelia just half
ascidly goes, Wow, that was the best scavenger hunt ever.
And then it cuts to the next day and Buffy
goes scavenger hunt they seriously bought that, and Sander's like, yeah,

(01:49:56):
or I think they're just trying to repress it, like
I think so funny. Everyone is so humiliated. They're like, yeah,
I guess it was a scavenger hunt and we all
just got really into it. Sure, moving on.

Speaker 1 (01:50:12):
That, and then Buffy even said at the end of
the episode a little like she goes, yeah, my mom, like,
my mom, sure seems to have bought it, or at
least she's pretending to.

Speaker 4 (01:50:22):
And then she's like she's getting pretty good at that.

Speaker 1 (01:50:24):
And then she just pauses and says, I should probably
start worrying. And You're like, yeah, that because I feel
like that's for the audience, because the audience is thinking,
this is like the fifth crazy thing that Joyce has seen,
where in what world she just remembers her her daughter's
friend comes over and she was all she could think

(01:50:44):
about was damn, damn. But now she's gonna try to compartmentalize,
so they have to. I like that they say that
because it's kind of what you're thinking. You're like, well,
first we've got ted, then we've got like, she's gonna this.

Speaker 4 (01:50:57):
This woman is this, one's good at this, She's gonna
do this.

Speaker 2 (01:51:00):
Yeah, she needs a psychiatric heal, No, she needs some help.

Speaker 3 (01:51:04):
Bad x was like freaking two episodes ago, like she
keeps like losing control. I would be, I'd be I'd
be nervous. I'd be nervous.

Speaker 2 (01:51:15):
Yeah, you're way too normal after everything that's been going
on recently.

Speaker 4 (01:51:20):
He does have consequences are just so direct.

Speaker 1 (01:51:22):
They're just so like, oh, well, he almost died, Like
so that's the one.

Speaker 4 (01:51:27):
He kind of almost lost his life.

Speaker 1 (01:51:28):
And it wouldn't It really would be really bad if Buffy.
I think he's aware of how bad it would be
if Buffy is either killed or like left as a rat.

Speaker 2 (01:51:39):
If they like took a character and like left them
as a rat forever, that would be insane.

Speaker 1 (01:51:43):
Insane dude, Giles, though, he really does get to be
angry this whole entire episode, but when he screams at
Amy and it just it actually snaps her into being like, you're.

Speaker 4 (01:51:57):
Right, I gotta walk in.

Speaker 1 (01:52:00):
Seriously, if you cared about Xander at all, you would
be trying to get him to be healed. She's like,
you are right immediately long since she just sits there
like staring at him after he yells at her. Because also,
Amy and this guy do not have a relationship as
far as I know they're not.

Speaker 2 (01:52:16):
Like free interacted. It was actually your fucking mom the
whole time, and I didn't like her.

Speaker 3 (01:52:21):
Yeah, And I mean they did do spells together. This
is the second time they've ever done spells together.

Speaker 1 (01:52:27):
That I do love. I love when they add in.
I love the extra stuff in Buffy. I know they
didn't get the mythology right and someone in here said something.
Someone in here complained about that. I don't know why
someone was complaining about the Diana thing. And I was like,
but I was like, get a grip.

Speaker 4 (01:52:45):
It's a show.

Speaker 1 (01:52:46):
But I think that that's like this show is very
bold and all of the things it like melds in
because there has to be a lot of like mythology
and magic and you know, were wolves and stuff, and
they really could keep it simple and they're like, no,
that we're not going to do that. There's there are

(01:53:06):
bounty hunters, there are people turning into rats, there are
love spells. Like magic is a huge it's a game changer, guys.
Magic is not just because it's magic.

Speaker 2 (01:53:19):
And on that topic, I personally love bringing Amy back.
I think some members of the fandom don't like that
Amy becomes a witch because It's like the whole deal
was that her mom was a witch and she hated
her mom, and she had such a toxic a relationship
with her mom, And I guess I understand where that's
coming from. But also I like having a resident witch

(01:53:43):
at this school.

Speaker 3 (01:53:45):
Yeah, and like if her mom was such a powerful witch,
she probably would have the gene.

Speaker 2 (01:53:49):
Yeah, And I can see that she could have the
mentality of like, well, I'm not my mom and I'm
not going to make the same mistake she does. But
I also did see how like it made things a
lot more convenient for her.

Speaker 4 (01:54:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:54:02):
I was just like, genuinely love this actor. I think
she's really talented. Yeah, I think she's and so I
love whenever they bring her back on the show. I'm like,
hell yeah, Amy Madison, my girl.

Speaker 3 (01:54:12):
She was making me laugh too. I mean, especially in
that moment with her in Giles where she's like, Cus,
you have no idea what I'm going through. She's like
wiping blood up her malap is so funny.

Speaker 2 (01:54:21):
I laughed out loud more at this episode than I
haven't any episode up to this point. There are so
many alms that was one of them. There are so
many moments that are hysterical. That really really made me laugh.

Speaker 4 (01:54:32):
I like bringing her back.

Speaker 1 (01:54:34):
I think it's too It's really easy with the show,
especially like a Monster of the Week show, to feel
like anytime a new character arrives, they may be disposable, like, oh,
this person might get grabbed, this person might we might
lose them, or oh they're going to be the monster
or something.

Speaker 4 (01:54:48):
So I it's a high school.

Speaker 1 (01:54:50):
You would be so close with all these people and
know them all so well, and so I like that
they are. I mean, even with Cordela and even with Harmony,
they are broadening the scope a little bit of the
Buffy world, and it's cool that with Amy it's like
the Buffy world and a Slayer world at the same
time is kind of merged, which obviously, like I guess

(01:55:13):
that that happens a lot, but I like that they
bring her back. And I think the which thing makes
sense because like, I don't know a lot of people.
A lot of people do their parents' jobs. Okay, a
lot of people become lawyers because their parents are lawyers,
so let's not forget that.

Speaker 4 (01:55:26):
But also I just feel like it would be so tempting.

Speaker 1 (01:55:31):
Like now you know, magic is real and like your
mom's gone and you're just sitting in your living room.
You're supposed to just like make a burrito and not
like read about.

Speaker 3 (01:55:40):
Magic, like just when you've got a whole I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (01:55:44):
I'm my mom.

Speaker 3 (01:55:46):
Cauldron in your attic. Hello, Yes, that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (01:55:49):
And also when the house started falling apart, she probably
was like.

Speaker 4 (01:55:53):
My mom.

Speaker 1 (01:55:54):
She went in her book and saw like cleaning spell,
laundry spell, all this stuff, and she was like, oh,
I'm not I have high cool, I'm not doing this
Sabrina the teenage witch. That's like how I see it
as that she's had time now from this and she
just has all this like information, so you would just
be curious like I and like you said, I'm not
my mom, Like I'm not gonna this doesn't necessarily mean

(01:56:16):
I'm gonna become my mom.

Speaker 4 (01:56:17):
Light is hard. My mom is gone. Now I'm like
trying to be in high school. Does she have a dad?

Speaker 3 (01:56:22):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:56:24):
She did. She moves in with her dad at the
end of which, oh, okay, I mean I thought my
feeling for some reason, I mean, well, her mom's gone,
this is alone.

Speaker 4 (01:56:36):
It's like dad, her kookie brothers.

Speaker 3 (01:56:40):
It's actually just her weird older brother's actually alive, but
he's in the navy.

Speaker 4 (01:56:44):
And he's he's gone, yeah exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:56:46):
And her inventor, her inventor artist's brother, and Amy has
got She's got I Amy, she's running a she's running
her own web show.

Speaker 1 (01:56:55):
But I like it, and I also I do sincerely
like this actress, and I like and I love another
person for them to dress. I love to see how
they dress the different characters.

Speaker 4 (01:57:04):
I love to see how they alter it in the.

Speaker 1 (01:57:05):
Episodes, like in this one, we have Willow in a
I think in the acccene she is in like such
a simple, like gap outfit.

Speaker 4 (01:57:12):
She's in like a sweater and like jeans. Cordelia looks so.

Speaker 1 (01:57:18):
Good this whole episode. I remember so like actually about
what she did. And then with Amy, like we have
her in business casual in high school, and I love it.
Her hair's her hair is curled underneath. I mean, I
just really love the looks they they given this show are.

Speaker 4 (01:57:39):
Actually kind of crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:57:40):
When Cordelia is wearing in the locket scene, when she's
still wearing the locket and she's wearing like a men's
like wall streets button up, sure that she has button
all the way to the top, and then she has
tied up around her waist. That was passion.

Speaker 1 (01:57:57):
Getting a three hour blowout before her I was like,
I can I believe.

Speaker 3 (01:58:00):
Oh, I can't believe.

Speaker 2 (01:58:02):
I can't believe it's back on the market.

Speaker 4 (01:58:05):
She was doing this before. That's the thing. That's the thing.

Speaker 1 (01:58:08):
Harmony's just straightening her hair. Cordula is going through a
whole thing of oppin it. Like, that's not that's happening overnight.

Speaker 3 (01:58:15):
And she has no magic mind you the closer to God. Yeah,
I actually bread.

Speaker 1 (01:58:22):
She walked into the Brons, I was like, I forgot
about this outfit. She looks so good in red, it's
so great. I really just and Buffy in the when
she has the fur and she has like that tail,
when Buffy is dressed like that was real my.

Speaker 4 (01:58:39):
When Buffy was like all great and it.

Speaker 2 (01:58:43):
Really looked really I felt like it like really swallowed
her up. She looked really tiny.

Speaker 4 (01:58:47):
I thought so too.

Speaker 2 (01:58:48):
I thought already kind of like a shorter girl, but
she was like, looked tiny when she.

Speaker 1 (01:58:52):
Was dressed like that, yes, yes, and when she yeah
yeah yeah, I really thought, And the no makeup I
was like, wait, so that I.

Speaker 2 (01:59:00):
Was surprised though, it was like really like she she
had a lot of mobility in it. The stuff they
were doing. They're having a like run round, run, run run.
I was like, damn, she is really yeah, yeah, this
outfit is really durable, and.

Speaker 1 (01:59:12):
Like I don't know if she had vocal training, but
I was hearing whistle tone like there was.

Speaker 4 (01:59:18):
Like I couldn't believe the range that she has. I
was so shocked crazy, So that look was great. Buffy's
look was really amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:59:25):
That was lifetime.

Speaker 4 (01:59:28):
Giles. I love Harmony.

Speaker 2 (01:59:31):
Harmony's got like a weird like orange kind of like
seventies looking number in this episode, and so gorgeous.

Speaker 1 (01:59:38):
Harmony is so limited to like it's crazy.

Speaker 4 (01:59:42):
I know she tol.

Speaker 1 (01:59:45):
So maybe Delia's is better comparison obviously, but like she
Harmony's using Barrett's.

Speaker 4 (01:59:50):
Harmony's the only one.

Speaker 1 (01:59:52):
Buying Barrett still, like everyone's using Bomby fins and clips
and stuff. Harmony is like coordinating Barrett like necklace shirt jews,
like she's sandwich accessory queen.

Speaker 3 (02:00:03):
Yeah, I really so genius up the delimited to.

Speaker 4 (02:00:07):
Oh the eyeliner.

Speaker 1 (02:00:09):
Yeah, no, it's So that's part of if I'm being honest,
that's part of why I get excited when there's a
new characters.

Speaker 4 (02:00:14):
Well, what are they going to do here? Xander really
has some of.

Speaker 1 (02:00:17):
The craziest looks, But I really think it is just
how men dressed.

Speaker 4 (02:00:21):
But it is.

Speaker 1 (02:00:22):
Yeah, there's definitely some times where they'll like zoom out
and I'll see the whole body and I'm.

Speaker 4 (02:00:27):
Like, what's the vision here, Xander Xander Harris? How old
is he the actor?

Speaker 1 (02:00:34):
What is this?

Speaker 2 (02:00:35):
Nicholas Brendan. I think he's like, I'm going to guess
that in this episode he's twenty two. Let me look
it up.

Speaker 4 (02:00:40):
Okay, he's definitely older.

Speaker 2 (02:00:42):
Than Sarah Michelle.

Speaker 3 (02:00:44):
Yeah, I can tell that the costume people have so
much fun dressing the girls and with the boys. They're like, damn,
he's like, I don't know, pants and the shirt.

Speaker 2 (02:00:53):
He's like twenty six, twenty seven in this episode.

Speaker 3 (02:00:55):
Oh bring back adult teenagers. Claire. Do you ever gets Claire?

Speaker 1 (02:01:00):
I actually don't, but I heard you guys say it
in an episode and I was like, looking around, I
was hearing you saying my name. I was like, I
Clarie's all the time, Like the Hello Clarice thing all
the time. I did think her speech was so at
the end of Cordelia's speech where she tells off Harmony.

Speaker 4 (02:01:22):
Was so funny to.

Speaker 1 (02:01:24):
Me because it was very much it was giving d
com to me, like it was a Disney Channel original
movie speech You're where the person is just like very
explaining everything so fully, like wait a minute, you are
a follower, and you know what the most uncool thing
is being a follower, and you know what's really cool

(02:01:46):
being yourself.

Speaker 4 (02:01:47):
And was watching.

Speaker 1 (02:01:48):
It really rooting for her because I thought to myself,
she's putting these pieces together, and she's saying them out
loud right as she puts them together. Literally immediately is like, wait,
this is wrong right away.

Speaker 2 (02:02:00):
I love that. And then there was that moment that
she turns to Harmony and says, and by the way,
I'm Radio Rebel, And I was like, how interesting. Yeah,
what a weird take.

Speaker 4 (02:02:11):
Yeah, yeah, I remember that.

Speaker 3 (02:02:14):
I haven't I have not seen that movie at all,
although I do love the reference to this episode of
this TV show, but I've never seen that movie.

Speaker 2 (02:02:22):
I believe Claire and I watched that movie together. Am
I incorrecting that?

Speaker 4 (02:02:26):
I think You're right. Here's whatever needs to know, maybe
the last Disney Channel movie.

Speaker 2 (02:02:30):
It's well known on this podcast that I love Teen
Beach Movie and that when Teen Beach Movie came out,
I watched it like four or five times that summer.
What's not known is that the person who watched it
with me four or five times that summer is Claire Manning.

Speaker 3 (02:02:44):
Guys, Oh my.

Speaker 2 (02:02:45):
God, we were way into it.

Speaker 4 (02:02:47):
It was like three weeks.

Speaker 1 (02:02:49):
Just the other day I texted Ian and I was like,
I saw an edit of a character from Teen Beach Movie.

Speaker 4 (02:02:55):
We're all talking about it, and I like sent it.
I was like, oh my god, like it's us.

Speaker 1 (02:02:59):
And then I realized it's not us actually, because you
are nothing like this character. And also I'm nothing like
this character. And also I just really wanted to send
you a Teen Beach Movie at it.

Speaker 2 (02:03:08):
This is another thing you have to know is that
when I maybe we'll cut this out. This is how
important movie was to us. Is that when I was
a Mormon missionary in Argentina, Claire sent me an email
to let me know, like tvvie Too had come out,
and she sent me an email being like, here are

(02:03:29):
my thoughts on TV.

Speaker 5 (02:03:30):
Try too, since I really love that looking back, that's
a true friend I and I was thrilled to hear
I would.

Speaker 1 (02:03:41):
I tried to draw like half the costumes from Cinderella
to mail If.

Speaker 4 (02:03:44):
I was like, I don't know if this gets the rules.

Speaker 2 (02:03:46):
Yes, I remember I still like a diagram on Cinderella's
dress and she was pointing. She was like this, I
didn't drop right, but these are like little butterflies or something.

Speaker 1 (02:03:56):
And I was like, for some reason, I was so
excited for Cinderella, which is such a random movie to like,
but I really the cartoon that the original of the
nineteen fifty one is my is like my favorite. She's
probably my favorite princess. She's always been my favorite princess.
But then I backed off for a while because everyone
was saying she was boring, and then finally I was like,
you know what, no, I actually love her.

Speaker 4 (02:04:20):
So what.

Speaker 1 (02:04:20):
Buffy was around that same time, and sincerely, like I
was watching Buffy. We were watching Buffy and talking about
the show, and like, sincerely, I just like that was
just such a different time. It's just so funny to
think about that, to think that you were watching Team
Beachwevie like six times, and I was like, and then
I'll probably you can cut this whene you want too.

Speaker 4 (02:04:39):
I was like, probably, then we'll be married in like
four years and I will show our kids like literally
like my.

Speaker 2 (02:04:46):
Head like would be like the same.

Speaker 1 (02:04:50):
Thing paragraphs about Cordelia and both of us, similar to
how Xanderkin misplaced his attraction. We were like Cordelia and
I was like, oh my god, we're same.

Speaker 2 (02:05:01):
The way that we would queen out together. And then
I'd be like, and I'm definitely straight and will definitely
get married.

Speaker 1 (02:05:08):
Yeah, like you would ask me to do like you
would always. You would trying to get me to be
a better performer all the time. You like, if you
learn tap dancing, we can do this number together for
this performance, and I, oh my god, he wants to
dance with me.

Speaker 2 (02:05:23):
Girl. There was the day. There was the day that
I literally put us both in drag. I said, let's
do a photo shoot where I do glam makeup on
myself and I do like masculine makeup on you, I know,
and we like that was like.

Speaker 1 (02:05:39):
We did a drag Like what if I actually made you?
What if we actually just put you in drag? And
it was like what if I've been waiting for you
to say that my whole life.

Speaker 2 (02:05:48):
She really committed, Claire Manning drag king, she really committed.

Speaker 4 (02:05:52):
I really liked that.

Speaker 1 (02:05:53):
Actually, that was a very fun day, and that was
what was more fun because I also did modeling.

Speaker 4 (02:05:57):
So it was always the same type of thing.

Speaker 1 (02:06:00):
It was very fun to be like, oh my god,
if I was a man, like what would I do?
And like very little, I would do, very not do
a lot. But this show, this show is for everybody.

Speaker 4 (02:06:12):
But I think we all know. I think we all
know what this show awaites.

Speaker 1 (02:06:17):
There were some characters in the show that are not
in the show, and like, you can cut anything I
say out obviously they're not in the show.

Speaker 2 (02:06:24):
Now don't say like, don't say like names maybe, but
then you can talk about them outside.

Speaker 1 (02:06:29):
Of that, I guess I'll say I'll speak really broadly
and just say that there is some there's representation on
the show that is not not covert and is expressly
like you know, like people have identities and stuff like
that that I really sincerely. I remember watching and I
had like a negative reaction to a lot of the

(02:06:50):
plot lines, but not really did not realize that was
why because I remember feeling not till later, I remember
thinking to myself, like, oh this, I'm now realizing that
I had that reaction because in my head I was trying.
I was either relating and then frustrated or I was
like not relating and making such a.

Speaker 4 (02:07:14):
Uh like a model of what that looks.

Speaker 1 (02:07:17):
Like that I was like, wait, but if I'm gonna
do then I would have to be that wet and
then that that's not fair and I don't like that,
And it was genuinely did not I did not like
realize until I was done with that season, and then
I was like, I will keep this inside forever.

Speaker 2 (02:07:33):
This is so interesting because I remember I remember in
our group chat Claire, we would talk about a certain
character and how we like, we just didn't get why
people liked this character. They just like were so uninteresting.

Speaker 4 (02:07:45):
To us and they're an angel.

Speaker 2 (02:07:47):
And as an adult I look back and when I
when it's angel. No, But as an adult I look
back and I rewatch episodes with that character, and I'm like,
I do sincerely think it was my internalized homophobia. Yeah,
that it was like, yeah, it like this character like
freaked me out because like some part of me was
recognizing something in them that I recognized in myself, and

(02:08:10):
so I was like, oh, actually, I just like am
not super interested in that character.

Speaker 1 (02:08:14):
I think also there's something about at least for me,
and like the way that I was raised and stuff.
You're very aware of the obviously you guys have probably
experienced this in a much more direct way, especially like
being performers, but you are aware of what people say
about characters, like the general public, what they think about characters.

Speaker 4 (02:08:33):
So when you kind of I worry that.

Speaker 1 (02:08:36):
You might identify or you see yourself in a certain
character and you see the response is so not good
you some I mean, this is really not a good thing,
but it can kind of accidentally sort of make you
fall back into line with the with the masses, because
you're just like, well, I don't want people to see
me like that. If that's how people feel about that,
then I don't want to be associated with it, you

(02:08:58):
know what I mean? Not the not like the identity,
but like, if people feel this way about this character
and I feel like I am that character, I need
to make sure that people.

Speaker 3 (02:09:05):
Know I do.

Speaker 4 (02:09:07):
I'm not like her, I'm not like him, I'm not
like them. You know that kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (02:09:11):
I remember watching this show in the Year of Our
Lord what was that twenty thirteen and watching a scene
that had had some gaze in it and someone walking
in the room and going, ugh, every show has to
have gaze in it now, And I remember going, this
is from the nineties. So I was like no. But
I also think that that partially influenced why I was like, oh,

(02:09:36):
I just like, am not I don't find that character
like very compelling. It's because I was like hearing this
stuff and was like, well, I want to be divorced
from that character.

Speaker 1 (02:09:44):
Then what's crazy, though, is I was really I was
very very I just didn't I didn't think that's how
I was viewing it because I was very pro everything
that's happened in the show and like any and all representation.
I was like, yes, ally and so I But I
think then I kind of convinced myself there were other

(02:10:06):
character traits I didn't like about these people.

Speaker 3 (02:10:07):
Oh, but in reality, I like completely agree.

Speaker 1 (02:10:10):
I didn't like that I was inserting myself and then
turning around to other people and hearing them hate what
was happening and thinking like, that's me. They're talking about
me like that's who they mean. They're like, oh, I
love this type of person, but I hate when they
act like this.

Speaker 2 (02:10:25):
Going off of what you said about like you relate
to a character, you hear what other people are saying
about the characters, then you like distance yourself in the character.
Would you say it was more so like your personality
aligned with a character, or like identity aligned with a
character or is it a mixture of both?

Speaker 4 (02:10:42):
I would say, hmm, you.

Speaker 2 (02:10:49):
Also are free to not ask answer the question.

Speaker 4 (02:10:51):
No, that's fine.

Speaker 1 (02:10:52):
I would say, like, well, the character that I identified with
but people hated was Xander, and that was more my
personality was like that. But I also I felt I
had a tendency to really act rashly to try to.

Speaker 4 (02:11:06):
Get people to like me.

Speaker 1 (02:11:07):
And then when when you're trying to get people to
like you and it does the opposite, it is so weird,
like how it feels to try to put on a
persona that specifically is like kind of engineered to make
people like you and then people really hate it.

Speaker 3 (02:11:25):
It straight propels people.

Speaker 1 (02:11:27):
Like they're like, what's my only say the favorite thing
about you probably the thing that you would rate the best.
And then you're like, oh, so everything else is like
really bad, So that's not good. But as far as
like the queer representation, especially later in the show, any
sort of like really the way that I related to that,
I think was more about I think it like really

(02:11:50):
scared me to watch people be vulnerable like that, Like
I could not hide from that, if that makes sense. Like,
you have an internal you have feelings that you might
want to like you try very very difficult or very
hard to not think about certain things.

Speaker 4 (02:12:11):
And it's not just like people or crushes.

Speaker 1 (02:12:14):
It's like specifically the concept of like falling in love
with a person, like having nicknames, being cheesy, and having
other people you want to do that and be able
to belong in the world and have people look at
you as the same as them, like you want to
be like you know, you want to be the main character.
And I think it was I think I sincerely had

(02:12:34):
a like a knee jerk reaction to being like this
is not allowed and I'm supposed to keep this type
of thing out of my brain. So when you forced
me to watch this, like then I'm being forced to Like,
I like the cringe.

Speaker 4 (02:12:49):
Factor of it all, you know, Yeah, I think it was.

Speaker 1 (02:12:51):
So it's less that I related to the actual characters
and more that it like so strongly, like actually awoke
like an emotional feeling deep inside me that I was like, ah,
that scares me. Like I was like, you need to
shut that down because a lot of the other relationship
you're so you're just so used to seeing typical relationships

(02:13:13):
and it's not And it's also very surfacy, like dates
and different things.

Speaker 4 (02:13:18):
So whenever there's a very deep moment.

Speaker 1 (02:13:21):
That was I think made me just feel like I
can't sit still kind of a thing, like I need to.
But yeah, that was more what I related to, And
then kind of looked out to the world to think, well,
how do people feel about this?

Speaker 4 (02:13:32):
Because it made me uncomfortable. And then when everybody was
like we're grossed out, we hate it.

Speaker 1 (02:13:37):
Not everybody, I mean, that's just the voice I was hearing,
then you feel like, Okay, it was the right move
to not think about this.

Speaker 4 (02:13:43):
I'm not going to think about this and I'm going
to pretend that.

Speaker 1 (02:13:45):
These characters are over the top rather than having very
real connections and feelings.

Speaker 2 (02:13:52):
Yeah, that was my I mean, maybe I'm not fully
understanding what you're saying, but from my understanding, what you
said that was a big my thing is like if
you had asked teenage me, I was like, oh no, Like,
I'm totally cool with gay people. I'm cool with like
gay people being in relationships, Like I have no issues
with it. I don't dislike Kurt on Glee because he's

(02:14:14):
a gay character. I just think like he's a little
too much. And then like watching Glee as an adult,
I'm like, no, actually I love Kurt and I was
actually just scared that he was gay, and that like
freaks me out. Yeah yeah, I mean I saw a
little bit two of my too much of myself, and
I was like oh no, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 3 (02:14:31):
No, yeah. And I mean for me, there's like things
that happen on this show that initially made me feel
like I was feeling uncomfortable, and then now as an adult,
I'm like, no, my skin was on fire because this
is a feeling that I can recognize and want to

(02:14:53):
also feel so badly, but it feels as though, oh no,
I'm cringing so hard, I'm gonna die, and you know,
And I mean I grew up like here in Utah,
like I grew up in like a really high pressure religion.
I grew up in a really high pressure place, So
any sort of queer feeling I had, while I could

(02:15:15):
like recognize pretty quickly, like within my friends, like oh,
I felt like I was like pretty hypotote, like yeah,
I'm gonna practice make out with my friends, like this
is real. But like you know, I also was attracted
to boys, so it was like, well, I'm probably gonna
marry a boy and still get married in the temple,
you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (02:15:33):
So like.

Speaker 3 (02:15:35):
The deeper feelings were like things that I just attributed
to feeling really cringe about rather than like true real feelings.

Speaker 1 (02:15:44):
Yeah yeah, I mean yeah, there's a lot about Yeah,
I think it's cool. I mean in this show that's
very specific, but in Buffy in general, there are just
so many things that they touch on that I don't
often see people touch on with very young people. That

(02:16:05):
identity is one of them. Your potential, your future, like
the way you view yourself as useful to society and
useful to other people, like what your role is in relationships.
All of that kind of stuff is touched on in
very like hidden ways. You know, it'll be like a monster,
but you think like, oh, that relates to this, But

(02:16:27):
when it comes to queerness, they're sometimes they're.

Speaker 4 (02:16:32):
It does both. It does the like this is a metaphor.

Speaker 1 (02:16:34):
And then also sometimes they're just like boom, what is
the name of the character Larry a couple episodes ago. Yeah,
Like then there's also just like, no, he's gay, and
they're like, oh, is it a metaphor or? Like he's
a gay person, it's a metaphor for he's a gay
person going to school?

Speaker 2 (02:16:52):
Yeah, because they have there are so many Buffy there's
so many Buffy supernatural elements that are you know, analogs
for queerness. But then starting with Larry and then it
continues on throughout the show, they also are then like, Okay,
but enough of metaphor, Like this is just like canonically,
this is a gay person that we're dealing with, and
we will have other stuff that can apply to queerness,

(02:17:14):
but also like there will be just explicit queerness on
the show.

Speaker 3 (02:17:19):
Yeah, gotta love this show.

Speaker 4 (02:17:21):
Love the show. This one is a pretty like this
one's a I can't decide what I think about this episode.
Is it gay? Is it straight? I don't know. I
really can't decide. Written by Marty Knoxen. There's an acc
in it.

Speaker 2 (02:17:37):
There's that access are pretty gay.

Speaker 1 (02:17:42):
Maybe, but then I was like, I don't know, because
I don't know. But then Xander is an episode, so
that makes it tough, that makes it hard.

Speaker 4 (02:17:51):
Yeah, he's just he's there and.

Speaker 2 (02:17:53):
It's driven episode. Immediately, the straightest shout of the show.

Speaker 3 (02:17:58):
Yeah, this episode is I think, very straight.

Speaker 4 (02:18:02):
But yeah, yeah, I.

Speaker 3 (02:18:04):
Mean, like you said, Claire, there are those boys who
I really do think that they're also feeling him.

Speaker 4 (02:18:09):
There's a couple, there are a couple.

Speaker 2 (02:18:17):
Do we have final before we get into like worst part,
best part, gayest part? Do we have any final thoughts
on this episode?

Speaker 1 (02:18:22):
I thought that episode was really fun. I also, by
the way, do you want to say my piece and
say that I like Cordelia and Xander. I do like them.
I like yeah that, Yeah, I like what this says
for the relationships.

Speaker 4 (02:18:35):
I think it's good episode. I think it was fun.
I feel like there's something I'm probably forgetting but maybe not.
I love Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Go ahead and say
the jokes you wanted to acknowledge.

Speaker 3 (02:18:49):
Yeah, try it.

Speaker 2 (02:18:50):
Okay, So here's my here's my type five one when
the Cordettes are not acknowledging Cordelia, they like turn their
backs on her and walk away at the beginning, and
and Cordy goes, excuse me, where's the fire sale? Very
good pun there. Loved that joke. Another good joke is

(02:19:10):
when Will's coming on to Xander and she says, Xander,
I want you to be my first, and he goes,
face man, please tell me we're talking baseball. And then
this is maybe my favorite bit in the entire episode,
which is when they're at the Summer's house and the
girls are trying to break in and he and Cordelia
are sharing a moment in the basement, and then a
girl's hand punches through the basement window and reaches in,

(02:19:33):
and you hear her go, just let me kiss you.
As they've like slammed open the door and all the
women are running down the stairs. You just hear someone go, Zander,
just that like the like clearly eighty yard in sounds
of like women in distress crying for Xander really did

(02:19:55):
it for me. I thought they were so funny. Yeah, anyways,
those are just I wanted to shout at those moments.
I think this is an exceptionally funny episode. As I said,
it made me laugh out loud more than any episode
has up to this point. I love that.

Speaker 3 (02:20:09):
All right, let's share our gayest parts, shall we? Claire,
do you want to read a jingle for us? You
don't have to, I would love you too.

Speaker 4 (02:20:17):
Oh well, so now I'm now I'm scared. Now I
can think. Is the John Carpenter one that you did?

Speaker 2 (02:20:21):
Like that again?

Speaker 1 (02:20:25):
It's fun That was funny because you did it for
a long time. And then there was silence, and Lena's.

Speaker 2 (02:20:30):
Like, oh, she did not know what it was.

Speaker 3 (02:20:35):
Then she got is that cold Play?

Speaker 4 (02:20:37):
And it's not.

Speaker 1 (02:20:38):
It's John Carpenter's Halloween. And then he says, no, it's
John Carpenter's Halloween. And then she goes Clocks, which obviously
you don't know who play, so you don't know what
to song. And then she started Then she started singing
speed of Soundwich is also a different one. So you
guys kind of like win.

Speaker 4 (02:20:54):
All of the jingle.

Speaker 2 (02:20:57):
I just couldn't remember how clocks went.

Speaker 4 (02:20:59):
No, No, you're you're so good. I wish I could
sing the Bewitched song E were singing. Oh wait, how
does the actual Bewitched song, go.

Speaker 2 (02:21:11):
The Bewitched?

Speaker 4 (02:21:12):
Yeah, is that the theme to be Witched?

Speaker 2 (02:21:14):
I think that's it.

Speaker 1 (02:21:15):
Okay, So then I would just say the gay is part,
the gayest part of the episode.

Speaker 4 (02:21:21):
The okay, it is party, it's part of the episode.

Speaker 1 (02:21:25):
I hope that's bewitched and someone doesn't come out that's
Clock's babe. Later I can get an email.

Speaker 4 (02:21:33):
Is part.

Speaker 1 (02:21:34):
And then I on a room it's Clock's momo, that's cold,
that's she witched.

Speaker 4 (02:21:44):
Imagine I really saying that one out though.

Speaker 3 (02:21:47):
Is the part of this episode okay?

Speaker 2 (02:21:49):
Spelled a very I agree, a very straight episode. This
is all about heterosexuality. It is women wanting to kiss
a man. Yeah, I'm gonna say the gayest part of
the episod ode is when Willa is coming on to
Xander and she won't back off, and Xander goes, please,
I don't want to use force, and then she smells
and goes force is okay? A woman? Will is a freak.

(02:22:11):
You heard it here first, Willow is a freaking freak.
Shout out to mister Ebbing. She is into sado masochism exactly.
That's gay.

Speaker 1 (02:22:20):
I actually did take note on that and wrote like
she's like King Confirmed.

Speaker 4 (02:22:25):
Like immediately I was like, okay, I have to try
that down King Queen.

Speaker 1 (02:22:28):
Yeah confirmed, because the other people like I want to
be in love with you. She like really is like no,
I'm we're doing this. She's confident.

Speaker 2 (02:22:38):
Yeah, she's like sticks and stones may break my bone,
but Xander Harris, chains and whips excid come out.

Speaker 3 (02:22:47):
Oh my god. I also think that Giles reading that book,
I love that. I think reading that book about bisexuality
and sato masochism, that's gay.

Speaker 1 (02:22:57):
I think he did maybe get that as part of
his queer history, like he was, he realized he had
a blind spot because you know, the Watcher's Council is
not they are like they were roommates, they were best friends.
The Watcher's Council is not including that at all. So
you that's his personal library that he got.

Speaker 2 (02:23:13):
They were like Spike and a jealous they've only ever
been roommates.

Speaker 1 (02:23:16):
Yeah no, yeah, And he was like the three, what
about the three? And they said no, Drew, Spike and
Angel never that's three people. Okay, He's just they're just behind.
So he has to there's a lot.

Speaker 3 (02:23:29):
They're certainly not e and m affirming yeah, not.

Speaker 1 (02:23:33):
At all, because he said, but so I don't understand,
and they that's what they said. And then Giles said,
I'm going to get my own library. I have to
go to America.

Speaker 2 (02:23:43):
Clear. What's your gayest part?

Speaker 1 (02:23:45):
I think those are both really good ones. I guess
maybe the angel wearing eyeliner.

Speaker 2 (02:23:50):
I like that.

Speaker 1 (02:23:51):
Concept, not that like, I obviously do not think that
that denotes any sort of I think it's gender expression
for sure, regards less of what your orientation is. So
I would say eyeliner or or yeah, no, it's gonna
be the eyeliner.

Speaker 2 (02:24:08):
It's the I'm so glad you said that.

Speaker 4 (02:24:12):
It's Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:24:13):
I think it's a very good one. All right, Well
now it's time for worst part, best part.

Speaker 4 (02:24:19):
Worst part, best part.

Speaker 2 (02:24:23):
What's our worst part?

Speaker 3 (02:24:25):
Worst part is roofing Pitbull?

Speaker 2 (02:24:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:24:31):
I mean, obviously, I'm like a fan of the high
drinks that ensue in this episode, and I do think
that the consequences are there, so I'm not like, I'm
not I'm not actively mad at it, but I hate
to watch it happen. But I think that's my worst part. Claire,
what about you?

Speaker 4 (02:24:46):
I think my worst part is that Mmm.

Speaker 1 (02:24:52):
I think I don't love the like the the extra
zander commentary in all of the when the women are
coming content. Those are the things I don't like because
I feel like it makes.

Speaker 4 (02:24:59):
Sense in the scene.

Speaker 1 (02:25:00):
And then he'll say, like, even him saying if you know,
if you knew what this meant to me bothered me.
I guess because I'm like, but you're supposed to be
still in love with Cordelia. It's been like one day,
and he's like, if you did want I get, I
don't know. I so yeah, just the same thing. The
whole concept was fine to me, but my worst part
was certainly just him still being himself and like making

(02:25:21):
the little comments that are like maybe another time or
that kind of thing.

Speaker 3 (02:25:25):
I was like, there's also that moment where he's like
where Buffy's like, I can make you feel better and
she's and He's like, is a lap dance gonna like
on the docket because that would make me feel better?
And I'm like, oh my god, said.

Speaker 4 (02:25:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:25:40):
It was the Boo Tomato moments where I was like no,
because he would be saying all normal things like don't
you don't want to do this, blah blah blah, and
then he'd be like, and I mean, that's just writing though,
So it's like, not, it's.

Speaker 4 (02:25:52):
Not him, it's not who he is, it's just who's
It's just he's being written that way.

Speaker 2 (02:25:56):
He's not bad, he's just written that way.

Speaker 4 (02:25:59):
That's exact. No, literally, But yeah, that was probably my
worst part.

Speaker 3 (02:26:03):
I love that.

Speaker 2 (02:26:05):
My worst part is that at the end, Buffy gives
Xander a big old pat on the back and says, hey,
oh my goodness, you really didn't take advantage of me
when I was roofied, and that means you're a stand
up guy. It's just obviously it's a good thing he
did that, but I also think that's the expectation of everyone.

Speaker 1 (02:26:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:26:25):
I don't think he did win above and beyond in
that moment at all, And I think it's weird that
we're praising him for it.

Speaker 3 (02:26:32):
I agree, Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 2 (02:26:34):
Yeah. Anyways, what's our best parts?

Speaker 3 (02:26:38):
I think my best part I don't know. I think
I'm going to say I really like the the Thrupple
moment in the beginning with uh with Angel and Spike
and Drew and like, like you said, Claire, like literally
like an investment piece, a beautiful necklace, like she can
use this for generations. She could like, oh my god,

(02:27:01):
like this is going to be in her, this is
going to be with her forever, and then Angel giving
her a heart, and just like the weird tension between
all of them. I just think it's so fun and
I'm glad that we get to see them even for
just like a two minute scene, and I love them. Claria,
what about you.

Speaker 1 (02:27:19):
I originally had written down that my best part was
the scene where Xander walks through the hall, the scene
on about the second day of the Love Spelt when
he walks through the hall and all the women are
fawning over him. I think because I like the way
that was shot. It was shot very funny. It's like
shot to his feet, the women behind him, the woman
in front of him, close above his face, like it's

(02:27:40):
it was a good scene. But sincerely, I think the
moment that I thought was the most fun was when
all the women were fighting in the library and Buffy
has been turned into a rat and Giles yells be
quit and then he is like, we have to find
the buffery. And I like that he like coined the
term Buffy rat instead of being like just we have
to find Buffy. He is like, we have to find

(02:28:02):
the rat. He won't except she's a rat and he
coins above every rat.

Speaker 4 (02:28:06):
And I like that. That was just like the moment
that I liked the most because.

Speaker 1 (02:28:09):
I like, wait, I love that he like yells and
then it's like, we have to find it, and I
was like, oh, that is stressful, Giles.

Speaker 4 (02:28:17):
I am so sorry.

Speaker 1 (02:28:18):
I'm sorry you're dealing with this on top of everything else.
Buffy's a rat. I am so sorry, sir.

Speaker 2 (02:28:23):
I love that.

Speaker 4 (02:28:24):
I just really like that.

Speaker 2 (02:28:25):
Hell yeah, I think this whole episode is so fun.
I think it is a joy to watch. I like, truly,
there are like ten different things, Like could listen is
my best part? I don't know, I do. The fact
that everyone turns into a psycho, I think is my

(02:28:46):
favorite part. The fact that it's not like, oh, we
want you so bad, please kiss me. The fact that
it turns into like Willow in tears with an axe,
being like you don't understand I love you so much
that I'd rather have you died than be with her
punching the windows saying joyce in Like, just those moments
of them turning murderous and having weapons is so incredibly funny.

(02:29:09):
I really love it. I really love it. So often
in this show they do these magic spells. I felt
similarly with the Pack where they take it just like
three steps farther than I ever anticipated they would, and
it's so fun when they go full chaotic with their spells.

(02:29:30):
A cow, well, that's that's beset, Befuddled and be ref
Season two, episode sixteen. Next week we're talking about Passion,
so tune in next week for that episode. Alao.

Speaker 3 (02:29:48):
I just want to say, Claire, I'm so glad that
you're here. Thank you so much for coming on. I
really appreciate it. I think you're incredibly insightful and so funny,
and I'm really glad that you were here for this episode.
So thank you for coming on.

Speaker 2 (02:29:59):
Claire.

Speaker 1 (02:30:00):
Oh my gosh, I do. I also wanted to say
just thank you guys so much for having me. I
really love the podcast. I listened all the time. I
love the people on the podcast. I was I cannot
tell you how excited I was when I saw you
were doing Buffy because.

Speaker 4 (02:30:12):
I didn't wasn't aware.

Speaker 1 (02:30:16):
I didn't watch the Glee one, and I was like,
I also not like a Glee person like I liked Lee,
but it wasn't like my thing. And when I saw
you guys were doing Buffy, I was so excited. So
I cannot be more honored to have been on the
podcast because I was genuinely like, it is just such
a joy to watch the show, and it's a joy
to talk to people about the show. So I will
do that at any time. I will get any excuse,

(02:30:38):
I will do that.

Speaker 2 (02:30:39):
So thank you. Yeah, no, I'm so happy that we
got you on. I had a great time. It's also
like you are like my og Buffy friend. You were
like as a teenager. I sat you down and I said,
I don't know anyone else who's watching this show, please
watch it, and then like you were the person than that,

(02:31:00):
I talked you through the entire course of watching it.

Speaker 4 (02:31:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:31:03):
So I'm very grateful you came on. Love you so much,
love you so much.

Speaker 1 (02:31:07):
I feel the same way I was. I feel the
same way I would not have watched Buffy. Well, I
don't think I would have watched Buffy without Ian, and
I don't think I would have watched it at that age.

Speaker 4 (02:31:16):
And you guys are so funny. You have a great show,
And thank you. Letting me be on it.

Speaker 2 (02:31:21):
Oh my god, at anytime do you want to plug
anything save your socials at least, babe TikTok on. I
imagine everyone who's listening has already seen your face, But
you plug your socials?

Speaker 4 (02:31:37):
Yeah, I mean, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (02:31:38):
You can find me with my usually with my first
and last name, Claire Manning, and I'm usually claranteed on
a lot of my socials YouTube, TikTok Instagram, and yeah,
I just make silly little videos and I'm out there
and you can come say hi, and you can watch,
and you can listen, and can you can learn?

Speaker 3 (02:31:59):
Yeah, you better learn learn something from this, and you.

Speaker 4 (02:32:02):
Better say and listen better.

Speaker 2 (02:32:09):
That is exactly the energy guy, because ain't nobody gonna
take responsibility for you.

Speaker 3 (02:32:15):
Xander Harris Also, Claire, I'm super tall too. You mentioned
you're tall. I'm tall too, and I totally hear what
you're saying too. I feel like sometimes people attribute tallness
to like masculinity, and I'm like, I'm gonna freak, like what, yeah,
what is that about?

Speaker 4 (02:32:28):
But like I I also for that reason tried very
very hard to have no masculine Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 (02:32:34):
Like I was like so in that case, I have
to be very thin, I have to be have really
long hair, I have to like push anything I do
that is like, girl, you.

Speaker 4 (02:32:45):
Know what I mean? And that's really actually crazy.

Speaker 1 (02:32:50):
Uh And I just I was saying it because I'm like,
I think the show did a really good job of
still helping me relate to a lot of people on
the show, even though we are like I am so different,
and you know, like the way it subverts femininity that
like celebrates it and explores it. But then you know,
I mean just the themes of like, you're so much
more than.

Speaker 4 (02:33:12):
What you look like, what you do, what you like
you are.

Speaker 1 (02:33:15):
The decisions you make, and who you want to be,
and the like the people that you love, and that's
that's it. And Buffy does that so good, Like it
does it so well because obviously she's literally a person
who just has to like murder for a.

Speaker 4 (02:33:27):
Living, yeah, literally and like wants to just be a girl.

Speaker 1 (02:33:31):
And it's like, I think nobody views her this way,
but she's like, so I hope no one just thinks
I'm like, you know, just like a slayer or whatever.

Speaker 4 (02:33:40):
But in but like the Watchers do, that's how they
see her, it's like, what she gonna do? You gotta
go warn me.

Speaker 1 (02:33:45):
So I'm glad to hear that you're tell because I
really really short people. Yeah, Sara Michelle Giller in person.

Speaker 3 (02:33:56):
I know I'm nervously like step on her.

Speaker 1 (02:33:59):
They are tiny, but I do think they don't make
their the women in the show. They don't often make
their that part of like their characters, and oftentimes they
try to be very like.

Speaker 4 (02:34:12):
Oh my gosh, this is crazy.

Speaker 1 (02:34:13):
She's so tiny, and also she's this and this show
is really like, we have other stuff to talk about.
She has been chosen as a slayer. I don't know
if she's five two, she's five three or something.

Speaker 3 (02:34:22):
She murders for a living. I can't believe that.

Speaker 1 (02:34:25):
Yeah, but yeah, Like weirdly, even though the show didn't
have like I mean, it's there's not like really I mean,
there's not like androgyny. There's not a lot of body diversity.
I wouldn't say, or really diversity at all. But as
far as like the souls of the characters, I think
they do a good job not making not making that
part of you they are, which makes it a lot

(02:34:45):
harder when you're watching something and you're like, oh, okay,
so that's part of why we're supposed to like this
character is that they fit the right yeah, you know,
dimensions or whatever, like oh, she's a good person, obviously,
she's skinny and small and like does her hair and
you're like, okay, but yeah. And so Buffy was one
of those shows that, even though it did them, even

(02:35:06):
though everyone was like pretty hyper feminine stuff, I was like, wait, wait,
actually though Buffy Buffy's duality of them, and she like
kicks hell ass, and I remember like she cangue and
especially like I so agree, like I like really distance
myself from anything masculine at.

Speaker 3 (02:35:27):
All, like I wouldn't. I think I wore dresses like
every single day for like ten years because I was like,
I'm already like closer to masculinity than like my shorter counterparts.
And I'm like, you know, and something about watching Buffy
where she is not concerned with anything like that, she

(02:35:47):
is just like wearing what she wants to wear. And also, yeah,
killing people for a living, like you know, and there's
something she's like, yeah, and like, while she is hyper feminine,
she's also a multitude of so men any things. And
that was like really like it meant a lot to
me growing up, so I completely agree, and I.

Speaker 1 (02:36:08):
Loved how they took all the I was a very
anxious person and like, so a lot of serious stuff
happens in Buffy, and a lot of serious stuff happens
in your life, and it's so easy.

Speaker 4 (02:36:15):
To, like, especially as a teenager, let it.

Speaker 1 (02:36:18):
Like ruin like months of your life, which I guess
she does when she's with Angel, but I always liked
that they had stuff like that. And then it's like
she's mad because like now the mall's closed, so it's
like great, Like you literally ran away from me when
I was fighting you, and now the mall is closed
and I won't have time to go shopping.

Speaker 3 (02:36:33):
So I hope you be serious.

Speaker 1 (02:36:35):
Like she kind of like still is able to just
move on from like some of the craziest, most insane
things that like would would be like life ruining. And
it's so inspiring to watch somebody just like tackle each
day kind of like I don't know what I'm gonna
be able to do tomorrow or in a week. I
know what I can do, like right exactly now, and
that is, you know, my science exam. And then later

(02:36:57):
I'll focus on if I have to kill someone like later,
I'll that.

Speaker 3 (02:37:00):
Okay, that is such a wonderful thought. Seriously, I so agree,
it's so it's I think it's the best. I think
it's a bunch of thanks Mmember.

Speaker 2 (02:37:14):
Actually, oh yeah, thank you for joining us. Seriously, thank
you so much for us a song right now. Welcome
was really stunning.

Speaker 4 (02:37:28):
Thank you guys very much for having me.

Speaker 1 (02:37:30):
It was really really great, of course, babe, and thank
you guys for flying me to New York.

Speaker 4 (02:37:36):
For of course the show. I was like the budget,
I'm we're the real deal.

Speaker 2 (02:37:43):
You're the real deal.

Speaker 1 (02:37:46):
But I you know, I wanted to appeal. I know,
I wanted to appear relatable. So we're in the separate rooms.
But I really appreciate that, and for pivoting when I
watched season two episode whatever of Glee instead, Yes.

Speaker 2 (02:38:00):
Did you episode sixteen of Glee? Famously, if you got
thoughts on this episode, you can send them to us.
You know where you've been here before. It's called say
it with me recovering Gleek at gmail dot com. Hell yeah, if.

Speaker 3 (02:38:14):
You want to follow us on social media, where Urgie
presents Underscore podcast on TikTok and also on Instagram and.

Speaker 2 (02:38:21):
Also please rate in review our podcast on Spotify, on
Apple podcast wherever you listen, please do so.

Speaker 3 (02:38:26):
If you want to support our podcast on Patreon, we've
got that too. We've got two tears for you. There's
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our secondary of our best friends of podcasts get a
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(02:38:48):
give you a shout out. I love you guys, Thank
you so much for all you do and for all
your support. Here is a shout out to each one
of you. Love you guys, Our When Natalie, Skyla, Natasha, Celia, Vanessa, Emily, Sonya, Aaron, Olivia,
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Enjoy the rest of the episode. Bye bye.

Speaker 2 (02:40:00):
You really ate that up. That was gorgeous And that's
literally it.

Speaker 3 (02:40:06):
I'm serious. I'm really so glad that you were here.

Speaker 2 (02:40:09):
I thank you so much, really fun that you two
have met.

Speaker 3 (02:40:15):
I know, I feel like I've heard so we should
I feel like i'm too. Yeah, I heard so much
about you, so I'm so glad that you're here.

Speaker 1 (02:40:25):
Oh my god, oh my gosh. No, I've heard so
much about you. I'm also I've definitely stoppd to you guys,
we're not. I already know enough about you, but I've
definitely stopped stop.

Speaker 3 (02:40:34):
Oh my gosh, that's so funny.

Speaker 2 (02:40:36):
She found out my address, she found in my family's name,
and it was fucking scary, terrifying. Well, this has been
a grand old time. Thank you for listening, thanks for
being here. See you next week for passion and keep slaying.
I feel like I see that once every.

Speaker 3 (02:40:55):
If you accept, here's a kiss on your forehead as
you go. See you later, y'all. Only if you accept,
please kiss me.

Speaker 2 (02:41:03):
What's that girl say? Thank you for listening. Follow us
at Recovering Gleek Underscore podcast, Email us at Recovering Gleek
at giba dot com, join our Patreon Patreon dot com,
slash Recovering Gleek, rate and review us, and tell your friends.

Speaker 4 (02:41:26):
Please