BtVS S2E7 Lie to Me

No one knows you like an old friend, and sometimes they use that knowledge to manipulate you into sacrificing yourself to a demon worshiping death cult

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm going to ask you a question. Are you ready
for this question?

Speaker 2 (00:02):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (00:06):
And I'm not going to ask you the question right
now because I actually have to give you a story
to lead up to the question. It okay. Last night
I went to trivia love So the town that I'm
doing Rocky Horror, and there's a pizza place that does
trivia once a week and three of our cast mates
were hosting, and they made one of the trivia topics Glee.

(00:29):
And they told me that they picked it specifically for
me because they wanted to stump me. Oh no, and
this first question, the first question was what's the name
of the high school they go to? And I like,
are we joking? So I said, obviously McKinley High. Second round?

(00:50):
What they frankly gave too many details for this question.
We're like, obviously, I was like you and I would
know this answer no matter what. But I was like,
even for someone who was like a casual fan, you
gave too many details that it now is easy yeh.
Where they're like in Glee using a drink with the
big quench logo on the cup. They performed this action

(01:11):
to bully other students. What is it called? And I
was like, that was so many context clues for slushing. Yeah,
and so I was feeling like pretty high and mighty
and pretty good about myself. And then around three the
final round came around and the question was, oh, no,
what was Quinn Fabrey's name in the original draft of

(01:35):
the pilot?

Speaker 2 (01:39):
How on earth would we know that?

Speaker 1 (01:41):
I texted Andrew Maguire and he did know, and.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
I was like, oh Andrew knows everything.

Speaker 1 (01:46):
This is so embarrassing. It was Liz, Liz, I and
I did not know that.

Speaker 2 (01:53):
No, I didn't know that either. That is like zero
to one hundred.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
Well, yeah, I talked to them about and they were like, yeah,
we did kind of like the first two rounds, we
were putting questions that we felt like the average person
could get, and then I round through three. We just
specifically wanted to put a question that you would not
be able to take.

Speaker 2 (02:10):
Hey, good job. They did what they wanted to do.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
They did with the egg on my face in front
of the entire bar. It was humiliating.

Speaker 3 (02:18):
Recovering Gleek presents a.

Speaker 2 (02:28):
Clear Buffy podcast. Hello everyone, my name is Lena and
I'm me Ian and welcome too. A queer Buffy podcast.
Thank you for being here.

Speaker 1 (02:46):
You're welcome. Ja's a very special day because it's the
day after an even more special day, which was yesterday,
which at the time of recording this episode is September
twenty ninth, because today's the thirtieth in September.

Speaker 2 (02:58):
Twenty nine, twenty eighth birthday.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
What it's September twenty Spikes twenty eighth, Spikes. You're so right?
Is spikes twenty eighth birthday and we're celebrating Lena. Did
you do anything special for Spikes twenty eighth birthday? Yesterday?

Speaker 2 (03:16):
Boy? Howdy?

Speaker 1 (03:16):
Did I?

Speaker 2 (03:17):
And get this, I'm a year older than him. It
was my twenty birthday. Yeah, it was my birthday yesterday. Yeah,
I had a I had a nice birthday. Do you
want to hear yes?

Speaker 1 (03:32):
Please? All of it?

Speaker 2 (03:35):
Okay, so listen. I recently have like been going to
therapy and doing a lot of like thinking and healing
and you know, reminiscing, and a big trouble that I
have is I speak very unkindly about myself. So my therapist,

(04:00):
like six months ago, he said, put little you in
a chair and tell her you love her. And I
literally couldn't do it, and so literally, He's like, I
need you to print out like a picture of you
as a child and think about that child all the time,
and remember that when you're being mean to yourself, you're
being mean to the child that lives in your heart

(04:22):
and also every single version of you. And that seriously
has changed my life, like changed my life for real.
So I was like, you know what, it's my last
year of my twenties. I'm going to have like a
childlike wonder themed birthday party. I'm gonna like wear a
frilly dress, I'm gonna wear wings, I'm gonna wear glitter

(04:42):
on my face, and I'm gonna make all my friends
print out well, I like printed out pictures of all
my friends as like five year olds, and we made
little crafts and like little like frames and key chains
and magnets to go on the fridge. And I just
told them all that that story, and I was like,

(05:03):
so just indulge me in, let's be little kids for
a minute. And I just you know, so, yeah, it
was fun. But here's the thing, though, Ian You'll get
me when I say this. I planned this whole party
by myself, and it was a fucking nightmare, a fucking
Nightmare and getting to get like ten adults in one

(05:26):
room is somehow impossible, and I wanted so I wanted
to do big Craft plus big game I wanted to do.
I wanted to play One Night were Wolf. I wanted
to play Flip seven. I wanted to play Anomia among
and girl I didn't. We didn't even get to an
Oomia because it's like hurting cats getting adults to play

(05:51):
a games. Yes, I literally cried the entire party. I
like people were showing up and like things weren't ready
to go, and like food wasn't done. Like you know,
I was like making a cheeseboard for everyone because I
like decided that that's what the party needed. As well.
I did had like no idea what to do, and

(06:12):
I wanted everyone to be happy, and I wanted everyone
to have a good time, and I wanted everyone to
be not mad at me. And I think I just
live in a really anxious space. And the whole time,
I was like, everyone's bissed at me, and no one
is happy, no one is having a good time. But
afterwards everyone was like we had a really good time.
Like I think the vibes were exactly what you were wanting,

(06:33):
and I was like, thank god you said that, because
I could not tell what the vibe was because I
was panicing the whole time. And then it was also
like I wanted to go from craft to games super quickly,
so like everyone could get a game in before they
had to leave, and it was like, you know, you
know what it's like, I like, I love games so much,
and everyone wants to like sit and visit with each other,

(06:54):
and I'm like, actually, don't want you to visit at
my birthday party. I want you to play a game.

Speaker 1 (06:58):
Like we have conversations every day we're not playing games.

Speaker 2 (07:01):
I now call each other on the fucking foul like
I'm here to play Werewolf. Now sit trust out. I'm
sure you get me when I say this. It was
just a throwing cup. Party is hard work and I'm
mad at it. And not to say that I don't
think the party went well. I think the party went
very well, and I do think people genuinely had a
good time. I think I am not the type who

(07:21):
should be planning parties, you know what I mean. But
all this to say, I love my friends very much.
They all were so nice to me. No one was
mad at me, and if they were, they didn't say it,
and I had a really nice birthday. I think I
just was not. I don't know, man, it was tough.

Speaker 1 (07:43):
I understand. I have a similar thing every time I
like plan an event. How I try to word this,
I understand the like I want people to come really badly,
but then also I'm embarrassed that people are coming and
like is this an inconvenience for them? And they're just
kind of like doing it because they feel like they
should and they don't actually want to be here. I

(08:04):
do one hundred percent understand that feeling. Yeah, were you
able to enjoy the party or were you just in
yekay good?

Speaker 2 (08:12):
Yes, I genuinely had a very good time. I love
doing a silly little craft and I love playing games.
Even though I'm I was literally doing so poorly at
the games it was insane. I literally was like, what.

Speaker 1 (08:24):
The hell, it's my luck now, I know?

Speaker 2 (08:27):
And everyone was like doing so well and winning games,
and I was like, what the hell I was supposed
to be winning and I didn't win literally at all.
My sister randomly was like kicking everyone's ass in the game,
and I was like, okay, pop off. Sister. I love that.
I was really I was. Also, my sister is so pregnant,
and I was so glad that she was able to
make it because she's like, you know, about to give birth,

(08:49):
so she is like really really really exhausted in a
lot of pain. So shout out to you, Aubrey, love you.
But yeah, I genuinely had a really nice time. And
it was so nice to have all my friends go
so far into the theme as well, because I like
encouraged all of them to like dress up and like
where's silly makeup and where's silly outfits? And they, like

(09:11):
all of them did. It was so fun.

Speaker 1 (09:13):
Should I ask you my my birthday question?

Speaker 3 (09:16):
Yeah? Sure?

Speaker 2 (09:17):
What's your brother?

Speaker 1 (09:18):
I usually ask what which? Also, like I think I
like stole this from someone I just don't remember who.
What did you? What do you feel like you learned
in the past year? And then what is your hope
for the next year? Like what's your Yeah?

Speaker 2 (09:36):
I love that, And so listen, I've been thinking a
lot about this because I love the past, I hate
and love the passage of time. No, I mean I
love to I love I love New Year's I love
my birthday, I love like an anniversary. Like you know,
I don't love, but I feel I feel very sentimental,

(09:57):
so like those things passing always feel very special to me.
So I have been thinking about a lot about this,
and listen, last year was seriously so awful, god awful,
and so this year, like obviously I had a lot
of trouble with work specifically, and but other than that,

(10:21):
I have really been chilling. And I feel really, really
really really really grateful that I've been chilling. Like I
feel confident, I think, more confident in myself than I
ever have. Yeah, I feel hotter than I have ever been.

(10:42):
I feel you know more, especially like you know more,
I'm much more self assured than I feel like i've
ever been, which I feel really grateful for. And like
while I haven't done anything like maybe people would say,
is like huge significance, I've been like getting up and
going to work every day. I have been a good friend.

(11:04):
I have been like you know, like a nice person
to live with as myself. So I don't know, I
just feel really I feel really grateful for this chill year,
and I think I have learned a little more, a
little more love and care for myself, which I feel

(11:25):
really I feel really grateful for. And what am I
looking forward to this next year? Gosh, my last year,
my twenties. I hope I live it up genuinely. I
work in a fucking cubicle, so my life is so boring.
So I love the weekends. I love coming home and
doing the dishes and reading a book and watching my shows.
I like, I feel like my life, while it might

(11:49):
not seem full, I do feel it. Like I like
see my friends and I'm meeting new people, and I'm
like doing lots of fun stuff. And so I think,
I hope this next year I I do more of that,
and I hope, I hope I fall in love. But
also it's okay if I don't. I'm on my own timeline.

(12:11):
It wouldn't that be fun?

Speaker 1 (12:12):
That would be fun.

Speaker 2 (12:14):
I mean, that's okay.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
Love by thirty. Well, Jesus, I'm glad that you had
any good birthday. You do look hot as hell right now.
I mean like you are hot as hell, but like
your hair is freshly dye. The lips color goes really
well with the hair. Your tattoos sleeve is really nice.

Speaker 2 (12:33):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (12:34):
Yeah, and people kind.

Speaker 2 (12:35):
Of like sent me a bunch of messages this week.
They're like, I didn't realize how many tattoos you had,
and I was like, yeah, I guess I'm I guess
I'm hot as hell.

Speaker 1 (12:42):
Now Yeah, of course, well, of course, of.

Speaker 2 (12:43):
Course I know. Well, thank you. I appreciate that.

Speaker 1 (12:46):
Yeah, I'm glad that you I'm glad that you have
learned to have a little more care for yourself in
the past year. Thanks me too, is very deserved.

Speaker 2 (12:59):
Thanks.

Speaker 1 (12:59):
Yeah, I think you're great. Happy birthday. I love you
so much.

Speaker 2 (13:02):
I love you too.

Speaker 1 (13:03):
I wish I could have been there.

Speaker 2 (13:05):
I know you were invited.

Speaker 1 (13:06):
I was invited. That is true. You did personally invite
me last I said.

Speaker 2 (13:10):
I literally all day. I was going to be like, hey,
we'res women later if you want to pull up.

Speaker 1 (13:14):
I pull that shit. Every time that my sister I
know is planning on visiting me, yeah, I will text
her and be like, hey, out a pizza in the
oven if you want to come early, and she like like,
she's not going to be in town for two more weeks,
and I'm like, hey, I'm starting a movie if you
want to catch up like that.

Speaker 2 (13:33):
I love that. That's so funny because I had the
exact urge to do that to you all weekend.

Speaker 1 (13:39):
Happy Golden Birthday twenty nine.

Speaker 2 (13:41):
My golden birthday twenty nine and twenty ninth. I know crazy,
I'd be looking forward to this my whole life. Hey,
I think that was another level of pressure. Yeah, because
I was like my golden birthday and my mom was like,
everyone has like golden birthdays when they're like seven years old.
You were twenty two.

Speaker 1 (13:58):
I was twenty two. I went to a Disney but
I mean, like all the birthday, Oh, I love that
in San Francisco.

Speaker 2 (14:05):
San fran Yeah. I think I just wanted it to
be I also was like I wanted it to be
like super special and my mom was like, it's just
another day, girl, you have to let that go. And
I was like, but what But it was special. But
there's just my mind. There's no way I can meet
the expectations in my mind for anything, and I have
to let that go.

Speaker 1 (14:24):
I a hundred percent hear you on that. That is
like why all holidays are my enemy, because my brain
is like, you have to make this important. It's a
special day.

Speaker 2 (14:34):
Yeah, when it's like it's just a day, it's just
the day. It's just and it can be special. But
I also like, I'm you can't be too anxious to
not realize that it's special. That was my problem this
weekend is like I was too anxious to realize that
everyone was Like I was surrounded by love and everyone
loves me, and I you know, yeah, they were there

(14:57):
to celebrate me, to.

Speaker 1 (14:59):
Talk about lot to me, ready to talk about light
to me, Ready to talk about light to me? And
I'm gonna end me. I'm gonna do a segue, which
is sometimes you're just so focused on like the touch points,
on the things that feel really big and special, that
you're missing the specialness that isn't every day. And when
I first watched Buffy as a teenager, I was so

(15:21):
focused in like, let's get some like big plot twist,
let's get some like crazy stuff happening. Yeah, that I
wouldn't appreciate, just like the episode by episode magic. I
watched this episode yesterday, maybe my favorite so far, like
the only one that is maybe higher as Prophecy girl. Yeah,

(15:43):
I sincerely was like, why did I like look past
this episode as a teenager, like it's incredible.

Speaker 2 (15:53):
It's amazing, And hear me out, I've always known that.

Speaker 1 (15:57):
He shout out to you, shout out.

Speaker 2 (16:01):
I watch it. I rewatch this episodes every year. Every
year I be rewatching this episode. God, I never skip.

Speaker 1 (16:07):
It's so good. Do you want to hear some slacks?
There's very few. Yes, Okay, get ready everyone, and this
is gonna be a short one.

Speaker 4 (16:16):
Oh yes.

Speaker 2 (16:16):
Time.

Speaker 1 (16:19):
So Light of Me is season two, episode seven. It
is the nineteenth episode overall, was written and directed by
Joss Whedon. It came out on November third, nineteen ninety seven.
And then here's some little tidbits about this episode. When Willow, Xander,
and Angel go to investigate the Sunset Club, Willow and

(16:41):
Xander walk down the stairs and there's a guy standing
in a coffin and he goes hi as they walk by.
That man is Todd McIntosh, who is the makeup supervisor
on Buffy the Vampires. They are also in the Sunset Club.
The movie that they're watching on the TV is the
nineteen seventy three adaptation of Dracula. There is a deleted
line in this episode. Normally, I like, don't put in

(17:02):
the deleted lines if I don't feel like they say
anything that basically, if I can like see why they're deleted.
I'm like, okay, well, yeah, but this one it does
give us a piece of lore, which is there's a
deleted line from Angel where he says, yeah, I eat too,
not for nutritional value. It just kind of passes the time,
which I think is an interesting tibit about Buffy for

(17:23):
his vampires that they can eat. They don't need to
eat to survive, but they can and do eat, and
that is something that pops up from time to time.

Speaker 2 (17:34):
Yeah, oh, okay, fine.

Speaker 1 (17:36):
There's a famous recurring bit about a vampire and their
love of blooming onions from outback steakhouse. Right, they'd be
eating not for duditional value. Just kind of passes the time.

Speaker 2 (17:50):
I guess you're right.

Speaker 1 (17:51):
Yeah. Now, international titles, y'all, they're like all lie to me.
It's like liar, lie to me. Truth hurts. You're lying
to me, deceive me. The only one who dared be
unique once again is the Germans. And the Germans name
of this episode death wish.

Speaker 2 (18:14):
Okay, it's getting to a point where they're naming shit
in a weird way. I like death wish, though the Sunset.

Speaker 1 (18:20):
Club has a death wish. They all want to die.
They want to die. And come back to life as vampires.
But they all have a death wish.

Speaker 2 (18:26):
It's so interesting. I do feel like, who's ever renaming
the German episodes? They like barely are looking at the title,
and they're like naming it themselves.

Speaker 1 (18:37):
No, I agree, They're like, I don't want to know
what it's called in America. I'll watch it, don't care.
I'll watch it for exactly, I'll watch it fresh, and
I will name it because I agree. It's not a translation.
What the hell, it's not a translation. It is a
completely unique concept.

Speaker 2 (18:53):
I agree, yes, Like every time, it's so funny. Death wish.
I mean, it's right, they do have a death wish.

Speaker 1 (19:02):
Mm hmm. That's all she wrote that all I have.

Speaker 2 (19:05):
Okay, great, let me give you a recap and we
can get right into our thoughts and feelings about this episode.
Big recap because it's a big episode. Okay. Previously on Buffy,
the vampire Sla Angel is being shifty and hanging out
with this really mysterious hot lady in the park and
Buffy sees everything. Augh, I'm sick of him. Buffy's old

(19:26):
friend Ford has transferred to Sunnydale. Ford goes to the
Bronze with Buffy and the Scoobies and ends up witnessing
Buffy dust a vamp. Shit, but wait, he's known she's
a slayer since she has left her old school, so
it's cool, right, Wrong. Angel does some secret investigation with
Willow and they find out she doesn't even go here.

(19:46):
Ford is acting so shifty and he's like renting a warehouse.
What the hell? Angel and the Scoobies go to the
warehouse and it's full of want to be vamps. What
the heck? Ford and Buffy have a run in with
a few vampires and Ford gets Spike's contact information and
lies to Buffy about it. Ford meets up with Spike
and is ready to trade Buffy's life for changing him

(20:09):
and his whole crew into vampires. Buffy realizes that Ford
is being a big fat liar and confronts him at
his club. Turns out Ford has a terminal illness and
has no has been left with no choice. Buffy tells
him there is always a choice, and when the vamps arrive,
hands their asses to them. Buffy dusts Ford when he
comes back as a vamp, and Giles lies to Buffy

(20:32):
and tells her everything is gonna be okay. And that's
what you missed on Buffy. The Vampire's Layer.

Speaker 1 (20:43):
Would a lie to you, would a lie to baby?

Speaker 3 (20:48):
Now?

Speaker 1 (20:48):
What else says? So that that wasn't you?

Speaker 2 (20:54):
Do you hope your birthday is all your dreams have
been made? At? What did you say?

Speaker 1 (20:57):
I don't know. I can read it. To read it
to me, I said to me, I said, I hope
your birthday is lovely. Light to me is so good.
I'm actually freaking out.

Speaker 2 (21:07):
Yeah, he had to let me know how good the
episode was, which I'm so glad about. I love this episode.
I love this episode and I think I connected with
it as a teen because when I was a teen
slash tween, especially when I was a tween, I wanted

(21:27):
to be a vampire so fucking bad. I was like
the type that was like putting my mother's bronzer under
my eyes to like make them look more sunken. I
was wearing sunscreen from a very young age, so I
can never get sun I was like avoiding, like hissing

(21:48):
at garlic genuinely, genuinely, and I was like drawing like
like points on my neck. I was no girl. I
was intense about it. I was like I wanted people
to think I was vampire, which I know that other
people did a shout out to those people. I know
you're doing it because I was doing it too so
And I mean when I was a teen, I mean

(22:09):
I got so when I was a tween, I got
so into The Lost Boys, I got so into the
Buffy movie, I got so into interview with a vampire Twilight.
The whole works, right, and all of these things made
tween me want to be a vampire so bad. And
something I appreciate about this television show is it like

(22:33):
like the vampires are romanticized because they're hot and Buffy
be dating them, but Buffy very clearly does not want
to be a vampire, and it is very clear the
whole time, and even like with the with the line
from a couple of weeks ago, like when you kiss me,
I want to die, like it maybe could be viewed

(22:56):
like she wants to be a vampire, and Jos Sweden,
the showrunner, making it very clear that that is not
gonna happen. So I feel like that like when I
saw that as a teenager, When I saw this episode
as a teenager, it was like pretty impactful to me
because I was like, Okay, wait, maybe being a vampire
is kind of joogie.

Speaker 1 (23:15):
That's what they need to be telling the kids. Being
a vampire is ju gee.

Speaker 2 (23:20):
Yeah, but yeah, I love this episode so much, and
as an adult, I'm like, oh wait, I really I'm
seeing the parallels in choice, I'm seeing the parallels in
like life and death that are like happening all throughout
these episodes, and I just you know, it's just very wonderful,

(23:41):
beautiful storytelling and I love it very much. So I'm
glad to hear that you liked it.

Speaker 1 (23:45):
Yeah, I'm genuinely obsessed with this episode.

Speaker 2 (23:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (23:49):
Unfortunately Joss Whedon is like such an asshole. Yeah, I know,
because he's undeniably an incredibly talented writer. Like it's it.
I know, it makes me furious because episodes like this,
it's like he sucks, and we do need to talk
about how he sucks, and we need to talk about
how he was abusive and he like abused his power

(24:11):
and he treated to the castmates like shit, and he
like very likely was kind of a sexual predator on
some of them, to some of them, pardon me, And
also unfortunately he isn't just such a talented writer like this.
This episode has such a clear theme and has such

(24:33):
a clear thesis. I feel like it kind of very
concisely tells the entire concept behind Buffy, which is this is, yes,
to show about a girl in a mystical world who's
fighting vampires, but actually, what Buffy the Vampire Slayer is
is a show about growing up. It is a show

(24:55):
about what it's like to enter adulthood and realize what
the world is actually like told through a mystical lens,
And that conversation that Giles and Buffy have at the
end of the episode is one of the major themes
of this show, where Buffy's like, I don't know who
to love and who to hate. I don't know who

(25:16):
to trust, and Giles says, yeah, I'm pretty sure that's
just called growing up. Every person in this episode, maybe
not every person, but nearly every character in this episode
lies at some point yea. Whether it be Giles lying
to Jenny about enjoying the monster trucks just because he

(25:36):
wants to spare her feelings, whether it be Angel lying
to Buffy about him meeting with Drusilla because he is
so ashamed of his past with Drusilla, and he doesn't
want Buffy to view him differently, whether it be Ford
lying to Buffy because he has nefarious purposes of mind,
Like every single person good and bad is telling a lie,

(26:00):
and also every person is good and bad, like every
single person in this episode is both a villain and
a victim, like Ford is the very obvious one. Like
Ford has terminal has a terminal illness, he has brain cancer.
He's going to die in six months, and yes, that

(26:22):
is causing him to put all these other people's lives
at risk, but like he is a victim of this disease.
But then even like is Angel Like the Angel and
Drusilla situation where it's we learned Drusilla's backstory and how
Angel sired her and he purposely drove her crazy and
purposely killed her entire family and then turned her into

(26:46):
a vampire once she had lost all grip on sanity.
So then it's like we're seeing Drusilla all these episodes
be evil and kill people, So she's clearly a villain.
But then you hear that story and like, wait, but
she actually is the victim of Angel. But then Angel
trained to right his wrongs, so is he the victim
in this situation or is he still a villain? Like
the episode is such a good job at showing there

(27:09):
is good and evil in everything and nothing is black
and white, Like the entire world is just scales of gray.
Everyone is the victim of something, everyone is a villain
in some scenario, and like Buffy says to Ford, it
is kind of up to you what choice you're going
to make in any given situation. I don't know how
clear any of what I just said was, but so awesome.

(27:32):
But I like when this episode ended, I was vibrating.
I was like, oh, yeah, my goodness, it is so
well done. And then also I feel like this episode
is a perfect Monster of the Week episode, although like,
is it really Monster of the Week because I guess

(27:53):
so because Ford is kind of the monster. Yeah, but
it does a really good job where it is a
self contained story. The entire Ford and Son's Club story
is open and shut in this one episode, and yet
we still learn who Drusilla is, we learn who connection
with Angel, like we still in the background, are progressing
the overall story of this series. I think it's a

(28:15):
very good balance of those two things as well, Like
this is not an episode, which you should never skip
it because it's a fantastic episode. But like, also if
you were to skip this episode, you are missing context. Yes,
that will be important for the down the line.

Speaker 2 (28:32):
Yeah, and while it might not be, dang that thing
happened back and lie to me in order to further
I don't know, like you know, it's not that it's
just good context into the character. It's character context.

Speaker 1 (28:50):
I mean, yes, no, I agree.

Speaker 2 (28:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:53):
And also like the Drew reveal, I remember being gagged, gagged,
and that is I love you, Drisilla. Oh, the finding
out that Drusilla isn't just like a little off, but
like specifically is that way because Angel went out of

(29:18):
his way to make her feel like she was going insane,
to kill everyone around her, to make her feel like
she had an evilness inside of her that was causing
harm to the people around her. And then like the
evil artistry of I made her so convinced that she
was evil that she ran away to a convent to
become a nun. And then the day that she took

(29:40):
her vows as a nun, I then turned her into
a demon. Like that is so twisted and messed up
and twisted I'm obsessed. It's amazing.

Speaker 2 (29:51):
Once a groomer, always a groomer. He might not doing
some be doing something as nefarious, but he's sure driving
my girl crazy.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
He's repeating it Angel.

Speaker 2 (30:06):
Oh my god, and he thinks he's being so nice
all to have as thy hard. I loved learning that,
and like, you know, you know, we don't know, we
know barely anything about Spike and Drusilla and so, but
we see that they're somehow connected to Angel, and then
learning that Buffy has felt very jealous of women who

(30:28):
are around at his time, but then also learning that
he was obsessed with Drusilla and obsessed with her innocence too.
Like when he said that, I was like, Okay, you're
a fucking freak. Angel. I like barely know how to
like say this frame like like say what I feel.
But I loved learning that so much, and it made

(30:48):
me hate Angel even more.

Speaker 1 (30:50):
I hate Angel not for this. I understand, you know, yeah,
he didn't have a soul at the time time. He's like.

Speaker 2 (31:05):
Some fond Jesus.

Speaker 1 (31:08):
But I love the fact that when we were introduced
to Spike and Drew, Spike is at the forefront. Spike
is the person that Chils is reading about in the
library books. He's the one to a watch out for,
you know. He stabs people with Rebrold, Spikes this, that
and the other. And Drew is just like that girl
who's a little weird who's with Spike. Yeah, and we've
seen Spike and Drew. This is their third episode now,

(31:32):
and then this episode fully flips the script where usually
it's about Spike and Drew is in the background. Now
this episode, Drew is at the forefront. It's kind of
the first time we see her on her own without
Spike and finding out how much, finding out how important
she is to Angel's story. And we had been kind

(31:54):
of misled in thinking that Spike was really central to
angel story and that Drew was just some girl that
Spike fell in love with. And it's like, no, we
still don't really know how Spike and Angel what all
the details are there, but it is clear that Drusilla
and Angel have a very or had a very close relationship. Yeah,
outside of Spike. Yeah, like they were. There's no mention

(32:18):
of Spike in the story of Angel tracking down Drusilla
and torturing her and making her go insane, and then
the way that Drusilla talks to First of all, this
cold open, Oh my god, maybe the best cold open
so far.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
Yeah, very scary.

Speaker 1 (32:34):
Little boy alone of the park made me feel sick
to my stomach. And then the way that Drusilla talks
to Angel, it's as if she's like a little bit
in love with him. And she says to him, she
says something about how he like, are you gonna hurt me?
Are you gonna kill me? And then he says no,

(32:55):
and she says, that's right, you can't do that anymore.
And then she says, my dear boy has gone all away,
hasn't he? And she says it with like sadness in
her voice. Yeah, And like she whatever like nasty evil
person he used to be. She has like a a lot.
It is like a like a Stockholmy syndrome thing that

(33:16):
she has this like love and respect for this person
who like completely ruined her life.

Speaker 2 (33:22):
I also love that part too, where she says, your
heart reeks of the slayer, like you're not the man
I thought you were. In fact, you've gone so far
the other direction. Now you're in love with the person
that like is trying to kill you.

Speaker 1 (33:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:40):
To watch these two interact. I was like, oh my god,
if I was Buffy, I would feel so weirded out,
like and that he's even hiding it from her, And
of course we learned that it's because he feels such
shame about her, like she is like the culmination of
all of his evilness.

Speaker 1 (34:01):
But oh my gosh, she also pulls a little after
she says that. After she says like, oh my dear
boy has gone all the way to her, she doesn't smile.
That cracts me. I'm so bad she says it, and
then she goes she's like, oh, like EO, but be

(34:22):
an angel.

Speaker 2 (34:24):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (34:25):
So how do we discuss this episode?

Speaker 2 (34:31):
Well? I think maybe chronologically, No.

Speaker 1 (34:37):
We can. The reason I'm always afraid to do chronologically
is I never want to end up I jump around.
Oh no, it's not that I prefer jumping around. I
never want to one feel like we can't.

Speaker 2 (34:50):
Have an organic just doing a rewatch.

Speaker 1 (34:52):
Yeah, I don't want to feel like we can't have
an organic conversation because we're beholden to talking about this scene.
And then I also don't want it to be like
here's a play by play of what we all already watched.
On our television and girl, no, I get that. Yes,
I'm always finish your thought.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
My thought is just it's not really like a plot,
B plot, C plot.

Speaker 1 (35:13):
It's more like no, I agree, but.

Speaker 2 (35:15):
We're all kind of operating because Ford came to town.

Speaker 1 (35:19):
Yeah, but we could talk about like Ford. We could
talk about the Sunset Club. We could talk about like
what Buffy goes through in this episode.

Speaker 2 (35:26):
Okay, great, what do you want to start with. I'm
definitely into that.

Speaker 1 (35:29):
We can talk about the Sunset Club. I have a
lot of opinions on the Suncit Club. Yes, Chantrelle Chantrell.
We talked about her on the pilot and we said,
who the hell Chantrelle? And then we were then we
realized who Chantrell was here she is, Yes, you are correct.
What's her name? Julia? Is her? Maybe her name? But
this girl auditioned to be Buffy. Yeah, her name is

(35:51):
Julia Lee, shout out to me. She auditioned to be Buffy. Hell. Yeah.
I love the Sunset Club, specifically Chantrell. I do love.
I like the balance of Chantrall and Diego though where like, yes,
Chantrall is this very tragic figure. She's clearly a girl

(36:12):
who is very lost who is looking for something in
her life, who is looking for some meaning, She's looking
for something that's going to save her. She is, you know,
the person that a cult leader is looking for, someone
who like, yeah, who doesn't have a lot of direction,
who needs someone to be like I have all the answers,
And this episode, I feel like, treats Chantrall with a

(36:37):
lot of like kind of reverence, Like she is shown
to be a very set It treats her with like
a lot of sympathy and pity that she is in
a very vulnerable position. She is clearly a girl who
has gone wayward, who just like is so lonely and
is looking for something. And in the same episode, the

(36:58):
entire time uses Diego as a punch to be like, yeah,
you get this fucking loser who like just wants people
to think he's cool, who's wearing like a spirit Halloween
vampire costume and changing his name because he thinks it
sounds more badass. I think that like this idea of
who are the two people that would fall into a cult?

(37:21):
A person who is.

Speaker 2 (37:22):
Like like a very lonely young woman, a very.

Speaker 1 (37:24):
Lonely lost young woman, and then this young man who
live like a huge loser and wants to be cool.

Speaker 2 (37:32):
Yeah, no, one hundred percent. And I so agree about
this episode treating her so reverently because this girl, I mean,
you can tell every word she says. She's like, you know,
she's clearly done a lot of misguided research and is
like spewing talking points from like a bunch of bullshit

(37:54):
about like how they're miss you know, it's a misconception
that they want to kill us. In fact, like they
just want to save us. It's like, okay, girl, like
who is lying to you? But it's also like I
feel like she is kind of the driving force of
learning about this club. And when Buffy is like looking

(38:14):
at these people, I feel like the camera is always
panning to her yes, and so like even like when
they're when she's standing there with Ford like above them,
all it pans down and you see Chantrelle like just
pasting back and forth and she's kind of centered in
the shot, and you see this girl as like so anxious,

(38:38):
so like excited and like just it's really really sad,
and you feel for these people. You feel for them
because this is a girl who just needs like some
direction and like some companionship and she is actually like
signed up to being a death cult. Like it's really
really really sad. Yeah, And like her being the first

(38:58):
one to walk up to Spy and greet the vampires.
She's so excited to see the lonely ones. And then
you know, Spike literally yells on her face and then
like bites her and treats her with no respect and
like obviously is trying to kill her. It's really really sad.

Speaker 1 (39:14):
There is that moment when Spike rips her choker off
and you see her face drop. Yeah, that moment is heartbreaking, heartbreaking.
When I think of, like in these shows people who
want to be vampires, I think of like the ren
fields of the world. I think of the like I

(39:35):
want immortality, I want like eternal life, I want power,
blah blah blah blah, which is kind of what Diego is,
although like Diego is a bigger loser than they are.
But I always think of that. And so when I
hear of a cult of people who worship vampires and
want to be like vampires, that is or my mind
goes to and I think that is an interesting story
to tell. But I find chan Tarral so much more

(40:00):
or interesting. Yeah, it's not like some power thing. It's
not some memortality thing. It is like she has a
line where she says where they're like unsure if the
vampire are actually gonna show up, and she says, I
just need them to bless me. Yeah, I echo everything
you say. I'm I don't know what else I have

(40:24):
to add.

Speaker 2 (40:26):
I'm sure I can make this about the patriarchy in
some way.

Speaker 1 (40:30):
Hey, you're welcome to well that too. I think there
are just both like legitimate cult cults. Yeah, and also
just like predatory organizations who do prey on people like this,
and like you said, Chantrall, whereas Diego's like kind of

(40:54):
an asshole to everyone, Chantraal is like very kind, like
when she sees Willow and Xander and like, oh, your newbies.
I can tell like, I'm so excited you're here. And
then when Angel tells her like you're wrong about vampires,
they want to kill you, she doesn't get mad at him.
She it's like just you can see that she is

(41:16):
a little like heartbroken and taken aback. And then her
response is something like I wish you would understand that
other people's viewpoints are just as valid as your own.

Speaker 2 (41:25):
Yeah, like she.

Speaker 1 (41:29):
Needs to believe in this thing so badly, has created
this fantasy based on the information that she has both
been fed and also just fabricated herself. Yeah, and is
so unwilling to engage with like any information to the
on the opposing side.

Speaker 2 (41:49):
Yeah, Like we see that in real life.

Speaker 1 (41:51):
Yeah, all the time, all the time, all the.

Speaker 2 (41:53):
Time, especially with young women, Like you know, it just
it makes me so sad. It makes me so sad.
Isn't that so funny? Like this girl probably has what
like form in a subscreen time like out of this
like half hour episode, and she has such a rich,

(42:13):
interesting character immediately immediately, And you know, maybe that's because
like we've seen people like this before, like colts specifically
prey on these kind of young women specifically like on purpose.
And also like I just think the rioting and the
direction is just gorgeous. It's gorgeous. And I think especially

(42:39):
with all the guys being kind of idiots too, like
you know, like Diego is there for power and he
wants to be cool, and this girl is.

Speaker 3 (42:50):
Like just.

Speaker 2 (42:52):
Has been sold that this is the thing that's finally
going to make make her life worth living. And I
don't even have to they don't even say that out right,
and I know exactly what's going on here. It's just
it's gorgeous.

Speaker 1 (43:06):
And in the way that this whole episode is about
kind of growing up and realizing that the world is
so much more complicated than you thought it was, I
think Chantrelle really represents realizing that there's not a thing
that's going to give you meaning. Yeah, and you kind
of have to create your own meaning out of life
and out of identity and self. And obviously, like the

(43:29):
Sunset Club is a cult, Like it is straight up
a suicide cult. Buffy even says the Mothership is not coming,
like this is the end, which feels very Haley's comment
to me, like, it felt like that was a very
clear parallel. Hi, it's me. I meant the Hailbop comet,
which was linked to the mass suicide of the Heaven's

(43:50):
Gate cult just a little over seven months prior to
this episode Airing and knowing that timeline, the parallel seems
even more intentional. I do think that it is intentionally
a lot of things, like outside of cults, a lot
of like religious fanaticism for any kind of religion.

Speaker 2 (44:09):
Yeah, just like I mean, like just last week in
real time, it was the rapture. Yeah, I saw people
online selling their cars. Yes, I saw people online quitting
their jobs.

Speaker 1 (44:20):
Yes. But it is like anything, whether it be a cult,
whether it be a regular religion, whether it be a club,
whether it be like something you're studying, whether it be
your career. Yeah, if you are so desperate for this

(44:40):
thing to give you meaning, if you were like, this
thing is my reason for living, is my reason for existence,
is going to make the bad feelings go away, is
going to give me a sense of identity. It will
become a poison in your life, no matter how good
it could be outside of that. Yeah, And I think
that is very true lot of I think that's true

(45:02):
of like everyone when you're graduating high school, especially you
go to college and you're kind of like, Okay, who
am I and what's the thing that's going to make
me me? Yeah? And I do think most people they
like really glom onto something, you know, Like for us
it was theater. Yeah, we were like, our identity is
like we are in the theater program.

Speaker 2 (45:23):
Yeah. I was like, I'm nothing if I'm not an actress.

Speaker 1 (45:25):
Yes, And obviously for most people it's not to the
degree of chanterraal where it's like, Okay, that's actually no
dangerous for you. But I think that is true that
you just are glomming onto anything that you think is
going to give you a sense of self, a sense
of identity, and is going to save you. And then
either you spend your whole life doing that or you

(45:46):
reach a point where you're like, I have to find
meaning in just being and all of these things can
add like layers to my life and that's beautiful, but
I am not to these things, and I have to
make peace with like who I am outside of these things.

Speaker 2 (46:04):
Yeah. I think that's such a wonderful, wonderful thought too,
because you have worth whether you are a vampire or
you're a human. And there's not going to be one
single day that's going to finally make everything okay. Like
it's just going to be day by day, and it's
that's tough. It's tough.

Speaker 1 (46:24):
And I she's just like, like you said, she's four
minutes of screen time. She's such a like she's such
an impactful character. And obviously Buffy is not as lost
as she is, thankfully, but like Buffy goes through a
similar experience of Chantra on this episode where she has

(46:47):
been having a hard time with Angel but has kind
of always thought pretty highly of him, has kind of
like had this attitude of I don't know, like he's
too good for me. And then it's episode it's like, Oh,
this guy put on this pedestal I'm now learning has
done this deeply fucked up thing in his past.

Speaker 2 (47:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:07):
And then Ford, like her childhood friend, one of her
first crushes, someone that, in his words, knows all of
her secrets, to be like, oh, this person is capable
of like deep evil that I was fully unaware of.
Just suddenly realizing these relationships that made me feel safe
and secure are not actually what I originally thought they were.

(47:31):
Her at the end of this episode asking Giles if
life ever gets easier, and he says, what do you
want me to say? And she says, lie to me, Ah,
oh my gosh, it's so good. It's so good.

Speaker 2 (47:49):
And that's the thing too, is Buffy has Buffy is
incredibly wise, and she has the wherewithal to say, I
actually don't need to hear the truth right now. I
need to hear that it's all going to be okay.

Speaker 1 (48:02):
Yeah, Oh my god, this show is so stinking good.
And just last week, just last week, we were like,
oh fun, everyone turned into their Halloween costumes, and then
this week it's like life is so complicated and evil
and sometimes you actually need to knowingly lie to yourself

(48:25):
and tell yourself that everything's going to be okay?

Speaker 2 (48:32):
Can we also, I'd love to talk about Ford next. Yes,
I to watch this girl be so excited to see
someone from her past. She obviously is like so like throughout,
she's very sad that she had to leave Los Angeles,
that's where her dad is. She was kicked out of school,

(48:52):
like a source of trauma for her. So to have
someone come from her past bring her all these good
vibes and energy, and then to have him immediately be
willing to kill her in order to become a vampire
and to live in the you know, to like save
himself from his illness. It is wild and something that

(49:17):
I think about all the time with this, And I've
seen a lot of other people talk about this as well,
So it's, you know, not my original thought, but I
always think about it when to watch This is him
saying I didn't have a choice. I had to join
this death cult to like throw you under the bus,

(49:37):
and I had in order to live on, I had
no choice. I had to do this deeply evil thing.
And then for Buffy, who has done so many things
in her life and has like nearly every single time,
chosen the right thing and to do good, and to
also put herself on the line before or she would

(50:00):
put a friend, or before she would put the school
or the town, like she is always ready to sacrifice herself,
and then to see someone be so unwilling to put
him self in harm's way that he ends up hurting
everyone in turn and saying well, I didn't have a choice,
and she's like, what are you talking about? There's literally

(50:23):
always a choice, Like in this world, we are going
to have to make tough decisions every single day. There's
always a choice. I like that, Like was very, very
very impactful.

Speaker 1 (50:35):
To me, especially coming from Buffy who in Prophecy Girl
was told we're going to die and was like, Okay,
well I guess I'm going to die, like a very
one for one parallel to what Ford is going through.
I agree. And then also she also like can't even

(50:59):
fully be mad at Ford, Like yes, I love that
scene where she and Ford are talking and she says
the whole like, what the heck is wrong with you?
Like all these people are going to die and you're
lying to them, YadA, YadA, YadA, and she's so pissed off.
And then he says, well, no one asked me if
I was okay with dying and reveals the fact that

(51:19):
he is going to die in six months, and then
says to her something along the lines of like, oh,
I'm sorry, did I ruin your righteous anger? You're like
she now, ye, she now is grappling with this very
heavy realization of yes, obviously he still has a choice,
but of course it's so much less. It's so much

(51:41):
harder to be angry at him than it was when
like he was just being selfish and wanted to be powerful,
and it's like, no, actually I will die unless I
do this thing.

Speaker 2 (51:50):
Yeah, but I also think that that's the exact thing
that Buffy doesn't want to hear, you know, because she's
even like you you're like caught up in your her
own drama, like you're not even seeing reality right now.
She's like, I'm not going to feel bad for you
because there is a choice, Like that's the exact wrong
thing to say to Buffy, It's like, of course, and

(52:13):
this is something I love so much about the show,
is I love these you know, these incredibly rich characters
like this is obviously a person who is like Forward
is obviously terrified, and I mean I have I you know,
have no idea what it's like to feel this way,

(52:35):
and I can't imagine. But Buffy is also like I
would if I was in your situation, which she has
been in that situation, she would never give up a friend.
She would never throw a friend on the under the
bus like he has. And that's ultimately the thing, Like,
you know, he is not inherently evil, but he is,

(52:56):
you know, doing something deeply evil like you said, and
I don't know. It's just, oh my god, it's like
thrilling to watch, like because this is so incredibly complicated
because you feel so deeply for this person. But then
it's also like Buffy can't feel bad because her moral
compass is way too like, no, that's not right, you

(53:16):
can't do that.

Speaker 1 (53:17):
I love her line after he says everything about how
he's dying and says something about like do you feel
sorry for me now? And she says, well, I do
feel sorry for you and if those vampires come in
here and start feeding, I'll kill you myself.

Speaker 2 (53:32):
Yeah, I'll kill you myself. She ate him up.

Speaker 1 (53:35):
Actually in that same scene, in the shot that you're
talking about, where Ford is talking about the Sunset Club
and you're viewing them from above and Chantrell's just like
kind of lost walking around. This is like both times
that I watched this episode for whatever reason, this shot
is a huge emotional turning point for me, and the
rest of the episode is very emotional. Yeah, he's talking

(53:58):
about the Sunset Club and he's talking about like essentially
how he is so much more worthy of continuing to
live than they are there and says they want to
be vampires because they're lonely, miserable or bored, and that
says something about like I have no other choice, like
it's my only way to keep living. Yeah, and something

(54:20):
about that shot of all of them looking like ants
from overhead, all of them kind of meandering around aimlessly,
with him saying they want this because they're lonely, miserable
or bored. Like it's just to talk about Colts again.
It is very like cult leader, cult member. Yeah, that

(54:40):
these people who are in charge have a you know,
a very clear objective of what they want out of
this situation, and then how many of their followers are
just lonely, miserable or bored, Like, how many people get
into these dangerous or evil or destructive situations because they

(55:03):
are so desperate for human connection because they are like
so sad. I'm just gonna say this right now. I
just like, I was watching an interview with Jamila Jamil
where she's talking about what, in her eyes, is the
problem with the left, and she's like, the left is

(55:28):
so determined to prove that they are, like they have
the moral high ground constantly. And she's like, and that
is why the right is getting so many more followers
because you show up on the left and she's like,
and in my experience, you can show up on the
left and you can agree with someone on every single
thing except for one thing, and that person's response will be,

(55:50):
we have nothing in common because we disagree on this
one thing. And then she's like, you show up on
the right, and if you agree on a single thing,
they're like, oh heck, yeah, well we'll work on the
other stuff later. And it just makes me think in
all these situations, but I'm specifically talking about Trump supporters
that I'm like, there are there are people that I
know that I have known my entire life who like

(56:11):
I have had like I have very positive experiences of
like being a child and them being a presence in
my life, and they are a very positive force in
my life. And I am just like, how are you
so blind to stuff that is happening? And I am like,
how many of those people just like are getting a

(56:34):
sense of connection from this that they are not getting elsewhere?
And like, obviously, obviously I think that people should be
looking at politics as like what is going to benefit
the most amount of people, Like what is for the
greater good? Like obviously that's what I think how I
think the world should operate. But also it is human

(56:55):
nature that like you just want to belong somewhere, And
how many people.

Speaker 2 (57:00):
About that all the time. I think about that all
the time, and I have seen people in my life
be so And I also think it's hard for like
you know specifically, like even the communities that I grew
up in, like low income white people are being literally
fed lies. Yeah about like who's to blame in their struggle?

(57:27):
And they blame immigration, they blame like democrats, they blame
X y Z, and it's like, actually, like the people
who are telling you to blame, like all these things,
like they're actually to blame and you're being lied to.
Like but with all of that, it's actually that it's

(57:48):
at least somewhere to talk about the places where you're struggling.
It's community. It's like this this person, I said something
and they were like, oh, fuck you, you're a bad person.
I'm not aboud person. Yeah, dada, YadA, YadA YadA. And
then they become something that maybe they weren't before, and
they're like egged on by other things and fed more lies.

(58:10):
It's incredibly scary and dangerous. And also I just think
it's a really it's a pipeline for a reason. And
I think also like you know, I don't know, I
could tell you all the pipelines that I see in
my real life, but yeah, no, I totally get that.
And it preys on a lot of like these people are.

Speaker 1 (58:33):
I mean, and I think I think the Diego in
Chantreal is a very good parallel. But it's like there
are the Diegos who like are just little punk assholes,
are literal losers who like are looking for power and status. Yeah,
but then also there are the chantreal's who like are
so lost and are looking for somewhere that they think
is going to embrace them.

Speaker 2 (58:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:53):
Hey, it's in from the future. I just wanted to
put an insert in here because I don't want the
conversation we're having two eclipse. The real victims of the
current administration largely immigrants, people of color, queer people, specifically
trans people who are being scapegoated for everything. And well, yes,

(59:16):
I think there are many people who are being lied
to and who are lost and looking for some meaning.
The lies they are following and enabling are causing real
harm to millions of real people. And just don't want
that to get overlooked. Anyways, back to it, but the

(59:37):
important thing to remember about the Sunset Club is as
tragic as the chancharals and it were. Those are going to.

Speaker 2 (59:45):
Kill them, no literally, And that's the thing is these
people think that Donald Trump's going to save them, and
actually he wants to kill and eat them.

Speaker 1 (59:54):
Yeah. Yeah, oh my gosh. Anyways, do you want to
talk about next? Do you want to talk about how
at one point Buffy's getting forward to tour sunny Dale
and they're walking through the campus and they see two
vampires and Buffy's like, here's a cross, here's a stake,
protect yourself. I'm going after that one. And then Ford

(01:00:16):
goes after the lady vampire and she she.

Speaker 2 (01:00:20):
Is the Mamma gemma.

Speaker 1 (01:00:23):
Literally he let her and then she keeps popping up
and tone over here. Yes, she keeps popping up the
rest of the episode, And every time she's on the green,
I was like, I want her story. She's in these
like flared leather pants. She's got like platinum.

Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
Straightened hair, rock video vixen like, she's got massive honkers.

Speaker 1 (01:00:48):
She's like a loud cut top in this big old
trench coat.

Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
There's also a part where like Spike like like calls
her up and she's like.

Speaker 1 (01:00:56):
That's a d Yes, yes is she. I'm upset with her.
I'm obsessed with her.

Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
I want to no, I know. I was like, who
is this.

Speaker 1 (01:01:06):
It's like, damn, Ford, you're fucked up for letting a
vampire go. But if you had to let one go,
I'm glad it was that one.

Speaker 2 (01:01:12):
I'm glad it was her.

Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
She deserves to keep living, keep living.

Speaker 2 (01:01:17):
Oh my god knows. Seriously, she has like she's like
constantly like she is the vampire of the episode. She
is like the one to like kick the door in
the background, and she does not, which immediately says to me,
Joss must have like thought she was hot and just
put her everywhere. I mean possibly, I like, I mean,

(01:01:39):
I don't know if Joss was the one who picked it,
but like.

Speaker 1 (01:01:41):
I am not going to pretend that Joss Whedon is
not an asshole who like loves to sexualize women. Yeah,
but also it is she is important because the way
the Buffy realizes that Ford is lying to her is
that she recognizes that empire, specifically that she's like, she
is recognizable, that's a vail hire that she's like, oh

(01:02:02):
the diva, I know her.

Speaker 2 (01:02:05):
In tone, running down the down the hallway. No, I
know her. I'd recognize that that bob anywhere.

Speaker 1 (01:02:13):
I was laughing. I was laughing because like, she is
giving this whole episode, and yet I was I was like,
but I know that these producers did not want to
pay her to say a line, because the whole like
screen contract is like even if you have a word
of dialogue, they have to pay you X amount of dollars.

(01:02:33):
More So, It was so funny to me that clearly
like they loved putting her in the show, but they
were like, but do not open your mouth, because we
are it is not in the budget to pay you
for a line extra.

Speaker 2 (01:02:46):
Ye, no, absolutely, I mean, and I mean, do we
ever see her again? But I literally would, I wish
we would. She was such a diva.

Speaker 1 (01:02:58):
I love her her.

Speaker 2 (01:03:01):
I literally went to like go find her on Glee Wiki,
but like, that's the thing is she's an extra, so
I don't know that she would be there, but yeah, no,
big diva. And the way she runs, she like jumps
up onto the ledge in the library. In her hair
is like so voluminous and like bleach ass blonde. It

(01:03:22):
is like gorgeous. Yeah, it's gorgeous. This woman was crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:03:28):
Yeah. Also, I know all vampires have yellow eyes, but
like because of her hair, her eyes were also really popping.
And whatever the color they went with it was, it
was a luck. It was definitely a look.

Speaker 2 (01:03:38):
She was a serving face for real.

Speaker 1 (01:03:40):
Yes, yes, she's.

Speaker 2 (01:03:41):
Like standing like behind Spike, like the muscle, like just
going like blue stealing back there with her vampire face.
It's really gorgeous. Are you attracted to that vamp face.

Speaker 1 (01:03:57):
Yeah. No, honestly, that's the best vamp paste van face
I've seen. Like it was really working, really working on her.

Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
It was working for her. Yeah, it was working for her.

Speaker 1 (01:04:07):
Oh my gosh, I love that.

Speaker 2 (01:04:10):
Can we talk about okay, Jenny only we haven't seen
Jenny in a minute. Yeah, but I was happy to
see her today. And obviously we learned that Jenny has
is so excited to take Giles. She's like taking him
on a date. Then we learned it's monster trucks and
he hates monstrucks, and he was just being nice to
her because he likes her so much. But they have

(01:04:31):
this conversation in the hallway.

Speaker 1 (01:04:33):
I hope you're not to say what I think you're
gonna say.

Speaker 2 (01:04:35):
Oh oh baby, yes I am where She's like, we
have to be spontaneous, like, let's have some fun, let's
have some fun. And he says, fine, I guess I'm
in your hands.

Speaker 1 (01:04:43):
And then she goes says sounds he says, yeah, go ahead,
I'll put myself in your hands.

Speaker 2 (01:04:49):
I'll put myself in your hands. And she says, sounds
like fun. There's kids around, there's kids around, but also,
please tell me more what do they do. Their dynamic
is so hot. I love them. Oh my god, can
you believe? I literally gasped, But of course, but of

(01:05:09):
course I'm not surprised, but I'm so excited to learn.

Speaker 1 (01:05:13):
Yeah, oh, Johnny Calendar. It was very good to see her.
I'm glad she's back. I like even though like she
doesn't do anything of importance in this episode. I like
you said, she hasn't been on for a few weeks,
and it's to be like she's still here and she
and Giles are still an item, and she still is
going to say overtly sexual things to him. She's still

(01:05:33):
going to peg him. It's still happening.

Speaker 2 (01:05:36):
She definitely pegs him, right, yeah, why not? Yeah, you're
no fun?

Speaker 1 (01:05:42):
Yeah, I say, yeah either way.

Speaker 2 (01:05:46):
She's definitely calling the shots.

Speaker 1 (01:05:48):
Oh absolutely, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:05:49):
No, I'm so obsessed with her.

Speaker 1 (01:05:51):
Speaking of people saying stuff in the middle of the hallway.
Buffy Summers and Rubert Gilds definitely went to the McKinley
High School of just revealing information during passing period because
Buffy mentions that she's like, oh, don't worry, Giles Ford
knows about me, and then Giles is like, oh, can

(01:06:13):
I talk to you in private, pulls her, maybe even
closer to the kids that are walking to class, and
he's like, now, Buffy, you aren't telling people you're the
Slayer just because they're cute, right, And she's like, don't worry.
He knew I was the Slayer on his own, and
now the whole school knows you're the slayer.

Speaker 2 (01:06:31):
School knows. He even says something like, you can't reveal
your secret identity of being the player, the slayer of vampires.
It's a secret, Buffy. Please, not just because he's keen
you have a secret identity.

Speaker 1 (01:06:46):
Think of all the people that would be in danger
if they found out that you were the Slayer.

Speaker 2 (01:06:51):
God forbid anyone finds out that you're the Slayer. No, seriously,
it went to William McKinley High School, because if I
was walking by, I simply would have heard what they
were saying.

Speaker 3 (01:07:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:07:07):
Absolutely, all right, Angel the vampire. We're talking Angel.

Speaker 2 (01:07:12):
Okay, I have to say something before we even begin.
It's so interesting that the makeup supervisor is in this.

Speaker 1 (01:07:18):
Episode, because why, I agree, go No, his makeup is crazy,
and why is he He has never been this pale?
And suddenly they were like oh, he's a vampire, right,
let's put on the whitest foundation we have.

Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
I was gassed. I'm like he is naturally like, kind
of a pale guy. Like I don't I don't need
to see clown white that he's never worn. And also I, oh, go.

Speaker 1 (01:07:40):
Ahead, then I feel like they drop it halfway through.

Speaker 2 (01:07:44):
Yes, I feel like this. I was seen the same thing.
Especially in the scene where's Tim and Willow in her bedroom.
He is wearing, like I swear to you up, a
bright red lip and clown white makeup. And I hate
to comment on a woman's makeup, but Willow looks ridiculous too.

Speaker 1 (01:08:02):
Oh I didn't clock her, go go go, oh, well,
she is.

Speaker 2 (01:08:05):
Just wearing like I feel like Willow has been wearing
more like Alison Hannigan's wearing more makeup this season, obviously,
like you know, she's growing, she's getting older. Of course,
she's growing experimenting with her look. But in this she's
in pajamas. She's wearing the harshest contour I ever did see,
and a smoky eye and a brown lip. And listen,

(01:08:27):
I know it's nineteen ninety seven. I know people were
we're doing this, but it it wasn't makeup that I
had ever seen on Alison Hannigan before, which made me
feel like I was like, huh, Angel looks ridiculous, Willow
looks ridiculous. Who is in charge of the makeup?

Speaker 1 (01:08:46):
See? And what you don't what you're not understanding, is
that Todd McIntosh was diverting so much energy into memorizing
his line of highs. She was like, do the makeup yourselves.
I got a lot of memorizing to do. A lot
of shit's going out for me this week.

Speaker 2 (01:09:03):
He's like, you don't realize it's my on screen debut.

Speaker 1 (01:09:07):
I'm in the episode. Whatever foundation you can find on.

Speaker 2 (01:09:13):
No it that especially his like he's just had never
been that pianos at fast one on me, and maybe
I was like, maybe the lighting is just different in
this new set, but like it's a bedroom, like there's
nothing crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:09:29):
And it's outside of that scene too, because I noticed
it earlier and then that scene I was like, Okay,
I'm not crazy. He is way paler than normal.

Speaker 2 (01:09:37):
No, way paler. I wonder if like maybe he like
got tan or something or they like or maybe just
another person was on set. I don't know. I don't
know and listen, I haven't been I'm no, I'm no,
I'm no makeup artist, so I know Todd no. And honestly,
Todd Magandawsh was taking the week off. He was bad. Yeah,

(01:10:00):
but it's so funny that he was in this episode
because I literally, like had been thinking about the makeup
in this episode so much. Not his best work.

Speaker 1 (01:10:08):
I do love the joke when they're in the Sunset
Club and Angel is all annoyed at all of these
like vampire fans, and he says something about, like these
people who think they know vampires, like, you know, they
think they know how we act, they think they know
how we talk, they think we know they know how
we dress. And as soon as he says that, a
guy walks by dressed exactly like Angels.

Speaker 2 (01:10:30):
Exactly, Like I loved that part so much because it's
not even like the same essence, like it's certainly the
same shirt, same outfit. Like it was so fucking funny
because it's also like, you know, Angel's also delusional, like
it's I love that part so much.

Speaker 1 (01:10:50):
Okay, I have like positive things to say about Angel
in this episode, but first I want to get my
big negative out of the way. Yeah, because Angel is
always annoying and is always off and how he talks
to Buffy and there is the one moment where he
is about where Buffy is like, hey, I know you
lied to me and I know that you were with

(01:11:10):
someone named Drusilla and what's the deal with that? And
Angel's all nervous about like telling her about Drusilla, And
so he asks Buffy do you love me? Which already
I'm like, that's a lot she doesn't even Ford in
the same episode says, is that your boyfriend? And she
says I don't know, yeah, because you are so hot

(01:11:32):
and cold with her that you haven't had a DTR.
You haven't determined the relationship yet, and now you were
asking her if she loves you, and then when she's
like hesitant about it, he then doubles down is like
do you and then she says, yes, I love you,
and then he immediately is like, well, you shouldn't like
that was him strong arming her into saying that she

(01:11:54):
loved him for the first time when she clearly like
was not ready. And then once she says it, being like,
you're dumb to feel so was so irritating to me.

Speaker 2 (01:12:05):
And it also feels way too fitting with learning that
he like messes with girls' hearts for fun.

Speaker 1 (01:12:12):
Yeah, I actually kind of maybe like it better under
that lens, because then it's then it feels like an
intentional flaw in his character.

Speaker 2 (01:12:19):
No, And that's the thing is I agree with what
you're saying, but it doesn't make it right.

Speaker 1 (01:12:22):
Oh No.

Speaker 2 (01:12:22):
And it doesn't make me less annoyed with him, No, but.

Speaker 1 (01:12:24):
It makes it more interesting. And then the next thing
I have to say is I love the Angel and
Drusilla Angele. I love. Like I mentioned at the beginning,
my favorite aspect about this episode is who is the
victim and who is the villain? Because everyone is both.

(01:12:45):
And this show so far has really really empathized with
Angel in his plight, and it has painted him as
a victim of like, oh, he was a vampire and
he feels all this guilt for what he did and
then but it hasn't ever really gotten into any specifics

(01:13:05):
besides like the girl that he killed that got the
curse put on him, Like outside of that, we've never
gotten any specifics. And then this episode to be like, oh,
not only was he like killing people because he needed
to feed, but he was doing it for fun and
making an art form of it, like going out of
his way to torture people. I think that makes him

(01:13:28):
such and that makes him a much more compelling character
to me. And just that added layer of Buffy having
to confront like, I'm in love with this man who
although yes, he didn't have a soul at the time, like, yes,
he has changed, he was at one point in his
life capable of like such atrocities. Yeah, I love that

(01:13:55):
with that.

Speaker 2 (01:13:56):
No, Yeah, I think it's the most interesting thing about
him so far. Yeah, And it makes me like exactly
because that's the thing is he only before has been
like kind of this broody guy, and to learn why
he's so broody, like, you know, I cannot. Let's have
some empathy, empathy for Angela corner, come on over to

(01:14:17):
you know, And you know, I love the way that
Buffy explains being a vampire in this episode, where she's like,
you think it's you're just gonna live forever, forever, but
actually a demon's gonna take up shop in your body
and you're gonna be there, but you're not actually gonna
be there, and it's gonna be fucking hell. You're gonna
hate it actually like it sounds kind of awful. And

(01:14:38):
so to live this life fucking with people for fun,
ruining people's lives, you know, killing, maybe doing so many awful, awful,
awful things, and then one day you feel the remorse
for every bad thing you've ever done. I can't imagine.

(01:15:00):
It sounds really awful, and to like, you know, also
be immortal, Like it's probably really a difficult thing to
live with the weight of being so evil and then
realizing what you've done, like, I don't know, it sounds
pretty awful.

Speaker 1 (01:15:15):
And then this like your your magnum opus rolls into
town and actively causing harm and you have to spend
every day being like everything that she does is because
of me. Yeah, I like any harm that she causes indirectly,
I am also causing.

Speaker 2 (01:15:33):
Yeah, And I mean that's true. It's true. He did that,
and you know, whether he had a soul at the
time or not, he does have to live with the
consequences of that and see the harm that that brings.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:15:47):
Great Angela in this episode is when he's in Willows
Room and he talks about how like everything changed when
Buffy came and now he like is interested in someone again,
and he says, prior to Buffy, it was one hundred
years just hanging out, feeling guilty, really honing my brooding skills.

Speaker 2 (01:16:03):
Yeah, I love that so much. Honestly, I loved that
so much. I honestly, really, really, really really really liked
that scene between too. I know I only said anything
about the makeup, but listen, I loved that scene because
it's also like, you know, to see this new, even
version of Angel I don't know, Like Willow is just

(01:16:24):
such a lovely person and I think she brings out
the best and everyone, and you know, to see that,
you know, he's genuinely worried about Buffy hanging out with
this guy, and he doesn't want to like freak her out,
like so he's like just trying to protect I don't know.
I was like, I loved that scene, and I thought

(01:16:45):
that he and Willow had such a lovely conversation and
like to have Willow be so helpful. I loved that
scene so much.

Speaker 1 (01:16:52):
I adre you, I need the non Giles men in
this show to be in more scenes without Buffy. Yeah,
because I also watching this episode, was so annoyed with
Xander in the beginning with like the Xander, Ford and
Buffy stuff, and then the second that Xander and Willow
were investigating on their own, I was like, Oh, he's

(01:17:14):
fun again.

Speaker 2 (01:17:16):
Just also the team up of the three of them.

Speaker 1 (01:17:20):
Yes, pretty very fun.

Speaker 2 (01:17:23):
Very fun when they're playing pool together and then Buffy
shows up and then leaves with Ford and then will
it goes Angela, if you still wanted to play and
then he disappears, I was, I made him.

Speaker 1 (01:17:38):
Do that thing where he disappears again.

Speaker 2 (01:17:41):
I loved that, And I loved them all getting together
to investigate together. I was, I just like to put
these characters in a new scenario. I would just I was.
I was thrilled to see them talk to each other
and be, you know, so involved in Buffy's well being
that they would do this.

Speaker 1 (01:17:59):
I really love and Angel like taking it so incredibly seriously,
like being all sneaky spying around. Meanwhile, Xander and Willow
are literally having a conversation about why do you say
stick out like a sore thumb? Do you ever see
a thumb and think that thumb sure looks sore? Like
It's just it's so the three of them together are

(01:18:21):
all so different, it is so funny.

Speaker 2 (01:18:23):
So different. No, absolutely Buffy's best character.

Speaker 1 (01:18:27):
Ever, Unfortunately, the way that Angel and Xander both interact
with her is really annoying.

Speaker 2 (01:18:33):
Well yeah, I mean that's also a big part of
Buffy's character as she is.

Speaker 1 (01:18:39):
Yeah you like can't Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:18:42):
Yeah, I mean or to every person, like everyone loves her,
Like other than Principal Snyder, nearly every single person has
like or even Cordelia. Every single person. Okay, let me
name all these fucking people who hate Buffy. Okay, one more.
But I mean like everyone feels like, really positively about
this girl. Wait, not Jenny. She doesn't like Jenny doesn't

(01:19:03):
like Buffy.

Speaker 1 (01:19:04):
I mean Jenny doesn't know I'm kidding. I was like,
what are you watching?

Speaker 2 (01:19:07):
Well, Jenny doesn't care for me.

Speaker 1 (01:19:09):
She's I mean, I wouldn't say she doesn't care for her,
she just it's like pretty, I mean it doesn't care.
I was gonna say apathetic, but I feel like, doesn't
care means like you don't like that, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:19:21):
Yeah, she definitely is hanging out with Buffy to get
too closer to drive. Oh yeah, Like but anyway, I
was just trying to be selling funny and more. People
who don't like Buffy. But anyway, all this to say,
most everyone feels extremely positively about this girl, like she
is the best personal life.

Speaker 1 (01:19:44):
Another moment in the trio team up but I don't
understand but also makes me laugh, is when they walk
into the Sunset Club and Angel is like, Okay, I'm
gonna go over here, and you guys go down there
and you guys talk to this per and blah blah blah,
and Xander says, sure thing, Bossy the Cow.

Speaker 2 (01:20:06):
Which honestly making me last this episode.

Speaker 1 (01:20:09):
I Google to try and figure out what the fuck
that means. I don't think it means anything. No there,
it just mean there. Buffy Wicki says that it's a
reference to a character on Sesame Street, but I can't
imagine that's true, because Bossy the Cow is a character
on one singular sketch on Sesame Street from nineteen ninety five,

(01:20:32):
and I'm like, I don't think they're making a reference
to a one time sketch from two years ago. I
think he's just saying a thing.

Speaker 2 (01:20:39):
I'm telling you, there are like little things that happen
like around me that I like make it like make
my personality for real.

Speaker 1 (01:20:50):
You think street Head, not even that.

Speaker 2 (01:20:53):
Like sometimes you just hear something on a TV show
and you're like, actually, I'm locking that in Bossy Cow
the Cow, Like sometimes you just hear things, you go,
that was so fucking funny. One time a guy like
passed by Canaan I in the street like a few
months ago, and he said, you know, like they's say
same shit, different shoes, and I think that's a phrase.

(01:21:15):
But he said that, and it changed my life and
I think I've said that every single day since. I
was like that was so nothing to him, and it
was everything to me.

Speaker 1 (01:21:24):
I was like so trying to figure out what Bossy
the Cow was in reference to. I was on boss
I was on Bossy the Cow, ridit. I was on
Buffy Reddit part of me, and someone was asking, like,
what is this line about, And someone responded was like, well,
remember like this came out in ninety seven and their
cultural references were different than what we have today. YadA YadA, yadda.
And then the next comment says, I was an adult

(01:21:46):
when this aired live and I have no idea what
the fuck he was talking about, Like it's not a thing,
Like it's not part of it, was never part of
the cultural zeitgeist.

Speaker 2 (01:21:57):
That's so funny.

Speaker 1 (01:21:58):
Sure thing, Bossy the cow. All right, do we have
big thoughts that we have not said about this episode?

Speaker 2 (01:22:11):
Yeah? I do. Okay, okay, listen. Obviously Drusilla, that's my baby.
That's my baby. And also spikes that scene between them
where she is like, you know, singing to the bird
and she's like, bird, if you don't sing to me,
I'm gonna pout. I don't know. And like also to
see that this woman is so like messed up because

(01:22:35):
of Angel's doing that, like she and also she was
almost killed by a mob and Prague, like she's been
through a lot. It's like to see Drusilla after we
learn what Angel did to her. I love that scene
so much. And I'm just so interested in this woman.

(01:22:56):
I really really, I think she is so interesting to
me and all I Also there's this part where she
decides that she wants to come on the little outing
to go get all these kids, and Spike goes, okay,
are you sure you can do it? Are you sure

(01:23:17):
you want to come? And she goes, yes, I want
to treat. I need a treat. I need a treat.
And that's me every single day. Actually, yeah, I loved
that part so much, Like what is the only thing
to say? I say that every day.

Speaker 1 (01:23:36):
I My one qualm with this episode, which I think
is like a near perfect episode, is with Drusilla. And
it's not anything you said, because I agree all that's wonderful.
My qualm is and I understand the episode can only
be forty three minutes long. We got to wrap it up.
Drusilla is like psychic queen, Like clearly she has some
sort of like foresight.

Speaker 2 (01:23:57):
Yeah, and we.

Speaker 1 (01:23:59):
Especially in this episode, we're building her up to be
such a threat. Buffy checkmates that woman in three seconds.

Speaker 2 (01:24:08):
A second. She's got no combat Like.

Speaker 1 (01:24:10):
This is actually pathetic, Like this is so embarrassing. She's
just standing up there looking down. Buffy jumps towards her
face like is facing and then Buffy just lands next
to her, puts her arm around her, puts the stick
to her heart. And I am at a point now
where I'm like, I do love Spike and Drew still

(01:24:31):
and find them really exciting, but we are three for
three Buffy kicking their asses that now it's kind of
like are they actually a thread or are they just cool?

Speaker 4 (01:24:41):
Like?

Speaker 1 (01:24:41):
Are they all style? No substance because she has really
with ease, gotten the upper hand. I mean the hardest
time was Schoolheart. Frankly, schooling Heart. If Joyce hadn't showed up,
Buffy would have died. But these last two times she
has handled their asses to them in second and this
time like they had a full vampire army and she
was like boo anyways.

Speaker 2 (01:25:02):
And then she looks them all in the room.

Speaker 1 (01:25:04):
Yeah, it's embarrassing for them.

Speaker 2 (01:25:06):
It was embarrassing, I know. I mean I look forward
to seeing what happens next because I agree, like you know,
to to introduce this big bad that is you know
a lot of style, a lot of style. I am
intimidated by them. But also you know, Buffy is like
handed their asses to them in seconds, like Drusilla. She's

(01:25:28):
like the sorceress that you need like one hundred feet away,
Like you can't have her in battle because she is
actually you know, she's sick. We've learned that she is
like injured and sick. And she's also too precious to
everyone involved, Like don't bring her please, I know she
wants a treat.

Speaker 1 (01:25:46):
This is bad you can pick up for her, like
it's not a good.

Speaker 2 (01:25:49):
Idea to go take good to go.

Speaker 1 (01:25:52):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:25:55):
No, seriously, I was like, okay, especially Spike, I'm like, okay, Spike,
you're talking big game and this kid literally delivered her
to you on a platter.

Speaker 1 (01:26:05):
Which also, you walk into the Sunset Club and Buffy
is in there. Why is your first mode of business
not let's kill her first?

Speaker 2 (01:26:13):
And the thing is, though, he even says like, leave
the Slayer for me, like I'm going for the Slayer
and then he gets Chantrelle instead.

Speaker 1 (01:26:21):
Yeah, he got confused. He was like, you auditioned for Buffy, right, well,
then I'll drink your blood, Like, oh okay, young blonde woman,
Yeah you're Buffy, your Buffy Summers.

Speaker 2 (01:26:32):
No, yeah, he must have. He must have just been
hungry for blood. I don't know. I've never been a vampire. No, seriously,
I was like, come on, he just said he's going
for Buffy.

Speaker 1 (01:26:46):
He's a dumb mass Yeah, stupid.

Speaker 2 (01:26:49):
Also, I guess we'll see what happens next.

Speaker 1 (01:26:51):
Apparently, according to Ford, when Buffy was a kid, she
used to dunk her oreos in apple juice. Oh disgusting,
that's evil. These are just random thoughts now, Xander wears
a jersey with checkered pants in this episode, and it
is a look in the worst way. Shout out Cordelia

(01:27:14):
barely in this episode, but boy does she get impact.
Her one line is so incredibly funny, so funny. Oh
my gosh, I just don't get why everyone's always picking
on Marie Antoinette. I so relate to her. She worked
really hard to look that good and people just don't
appreciate that kind of effort. And then when she says
that Marie Antoinette cared about the peasants, she was gonna
let them have cake.

Speaker 2 (01:27:36):
I I love to see this woman have really intense
wrong opinions in a class and stand really firmal.

Speaker 1 (01:27:44):
I'm like, oh my god, goodness, I.

Speaker 2 (01:27:46):
Bet as like a fellow student, it would make me mad,
But as a watcher of a TV show, I'm like, God,
she must beat a thrill to hav in class. I
love her.

Speaker 1 (01:27:54):
And doesn't she say something like the villagers were all impressed?
And then Xander goes, oh pressed.

Speaker 2 (01:28:02):
Yeah, she her impact. I also remember her, holp. It
is really beautiful.

Speaker 3 (01:28:07):
God, I love her.

Speaker 1 (01:28:08):
Shout out Creally Chase, glad to have you here, even
I it's just for one line. Uh, that is all
of my opinions on this episode. Do you have final thoughts.

Speaker 2 (01:28:18):
I thought this episode? I you know, I just think
it's like you said, no one is all the way good,
all the way bad. Everyone is a victim and also
a bad guy. And I just think I just think
it's beautiful.

Speaker 1 (01:28:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:28:36):
And I also like, I think we see parallels of
this episode like throughout the series, and I'm you know,
I think this episode is wonderful and I'm glad that
we are doing a Buffy podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:28:49):
Same to talking about the Sunset Club again, I was
just reading one of my notes talking about the like
victim villa mentality where it's also the Sunset Club, Like
are they victims?

Speaker 2 (01:29:02):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:29:02):
Or are they the villains?

Speaker 4 (01:29:03):
Like?

Speaker 1 (01:29:04):
Yeah, did they have it coming? Because they brought it
upon themselves because they willingly went into this situation and
like asked these vampires to come and attack them. Or
are they victims because they were being lied to? But
then are they villains because they didn't bother to like
check the information they were receiving. Yeah, the same mentality

(01:29:24):
can apply to a lot of different things. Yeah, Yeah,
it is that complicated, Like yeah, they both are being
preyed on. But then also they are feeding into the
fact that they are being preyed on, Like they are
both being preyed on and are being willing prey And
so then it's the complicated are they to blame or

(01:29:46):
are they innocent victims? And no, it's all true. It
is all of the above.

Speaker 2 (01:29:51):
Yeah, it's everything. Yeah, another thought, one last thought. I
love that Buffy steaks forward the end of this, like
you barely realize it's forward, but like, you know, Ford
got what he wanted. He became a vampire, and there
is no world that Buffy would have let that happen. Yeah, Like,

(01:30:13):
and it's her duty as the slayer to slay him.
And I just thought, you know that part is like
like she obviously she is standing over his grave, she
lays flowers at his grave. She is genuinely sad to
have lost him, but she has a duty. And I

(01:30:35):
that whole scene with that, and then with Giles, this
whole like, bad guys will wear the hats and horns
so you can always point them out. The good guy
will always prevail and everything will be okay. That whole
scene is so gorgeous and deeply sad and also that's life,
you know, it's just so wonderful, like.

Speaker 1 (01:30:59):
And that very representative of I know that you've had
this experience. I've had this experience. I think a lot
of people have had this experience where you have people
in your life that are special to you, that you
have a certain viewpoint of, and then you find out

(01:31:19):
information about them or they change, where it's like you
are the memories I have of you remain special, and
yet you are not the person that I thought you were. Yeah,
and you have to kill them in your mind, like
you have to sever the connection, get them out of
your life, and it's incredibly hard and difficult, and that is.

Speaker 2 (01:31:39):
That's such a good thought, my god, because yeah, sometimes
you do have to do that. But that doesn't mean
that the memories in your mind.

Speaker 1 (01:31:49):
Can't be Yeah, it doesn't mean you're not going to
have bad and doesn't mean you're not going to lay
flowers at their grave, but like you have to, but
you have to move on. Yeah, I think this aisode
has so much to say. Yeah, this you guys, you
heard your first show. The show shows not just about vampires,

(01:32:11):
but like this is this is why there are college
courses about this TV show like this is why this
show is looked at as changing the face of television,
as being the beginning of the modern era of television.
This is why it is a show that is still
talked about so much all of these years later. Is
they are doing so much with a teenage girl who

(01:32:37):
fights vampires? Like I could talk, I mean we have,
We talked for nearly two hours about the content of
this episode. It's I don't know how to put this
praise into words without just signing hyperbolic and annoying. But
I am just like both times I watched this episode,

(01:32:57):
was so impressed by how many it had to say,
by what a good job it does of painting a
portrait of realizing how complicated and multifaceted life is. And
no matter how badly you want things to be black
and white, and no matter how badly you want to
say you are an evil person because of this, this,

(01:33:18):
and this, and you are a good person because of this,
this and this, that is never true and there are
always so many things going on. And then, like you said,
and despite all that, you still will always have a
choice to do what you feel is the right thing. Yeah,
it's very into the woods.

Speaker 2 (01:33:36):
I love that. I agree.

Speaker 1 (01:33:37):
Hey, that conversation Giles has at the end very into
the woods. Oh yeah, god, this episode rocks. Okay, No,
I'm so glad.

Speaker 2 (01:33:48):
And you mentioned you said that you like you didn't
remember it.

Speaker 1 (01:33:53):
Or yeah I had. I had almost no memory of
this episode whatsoever.

Speaker 2 (01:33:57):
I love.

Speaker 1 (01:33:58):
I had like a faint memory Oftal, did not remember
her name, had like a faint memory of Chantrall remembered
that there was like a vampire cult, but like I did,
I thought it was just kind of surface Levelly, we
all want to be vampires. Like I did not remember
how sad the cult was and how well it painted

(01:34:25):
a portrait of people who need a sense of belonging
in like the dangerous and evil places people will end
up in search for connection and meaning. And then I remember,
like the Drusilla backstory, but I forgot that we received
that in this episode of course. Yeah, what was your

(01:34:45):
worst part the fact that Buffy gets Drusilla in like
three seconds.

Speaker 2 (01:34:51):
Yeah, no, we hear you.

Speaker 1 (01:34:52):
It's it's anticlymactic. And I under as I said, I
understand because the episode there's nothing that I would cut
and so like she does my god to do it
that quick, but it is like, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:35:05):
You can make her struggle even a little bit. That's
what she doesn't she immediately is like.

Speaker 1 (01:35:09):
Uh, or at least like Drusilla's facing the other direction,
like she sneaks up behind her at least.

Speaker 2 (01:35:15):
No, absolutely, what's your moment of surprise?

Speaker 1 (01:35:18):
Yeah, what's your worst part?

Speaker 2 (01:35:21):
The makeup? Angel you loa ridiculous? Angel you loa ridiculous
And I know I can't. I've never noticed it before,
never noticed it before, which makes me think something was happening,
either like someone make a plot, got weirded out somewhere,
or like maybe Dave Bryannis was had a big pimple.
I don't know, but I really did see his lip

(01:35:45):
tint and his clown white makeup.

Speaker 1 (01:35:47):
He was. It was drastic.

Speaker 2 (01:35:49):
It was like Edward Cullen in the worst way.

Speaker 1 (01:35:52):
Yes, absolutely it was.

Speaker 2 (01:35:54):
It was bad, And I mean, you know, I feel
like something I appreciate about this show, oh is I
do feel like like the vampires sometimes are pale, but
like they do look like humans, Like it's not like
it's not like they're specifically no blood in their skins,

(01:36:17):
so they're very pale, like you know they look like people. Yeah,
I don't know. So, yeah, that was my worst part.
You just look Angel, you look ridiculous. What's your best part?

Speaker 1 (01:36:29):
Probably the Sunsei Club, probably Chantarrall specifically Chantles.

Speaker 2 (01:36:35):
You you were gonna say Chantarrell.

Speaker 1 (01:36:36):
Yeah, I low screen time, high impact character. Yeah, well
you love They made the most with that.

Speaker 2 (01:36:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:36:46):
And like, as I said, just how there's no moment
in this episode where she is ever angry. Yeah, she's
always either extremely hopeful, but even in her home, even
in her hopefulness, it is not a positivity. It's a desperation.
Oh my god, it is a I cannot continue the

(01:37:07):
way I am. I need I need this to be true.

Speaker 2 (01:37:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:37:10):
And then specifically, I think maybe my best part of
the entire episode is one the overhead shot with Ford
saying they're miserable, they're lonely or bored, and then two
Spike ripping Chantrelle's choker off, and then seeing her come
to the realization that she has put her entire life

(01:37:31):
in a lie, like dedicated her entire self to a lie.

Speaker 2 (01:37:34):
Yeah. Honestly, to piggyback on that a little bit, I
every single one of those kids run away, run away,
They see the real danger. They see that these people
don't want to help them and they actually just want
to hurt them, and they run away. It is It's sad.
It's really sad. Yeah, with Damn Colts are so crazy?

Speaker 1 (01:37:59):
What's your best part?

Speaker 2 (01:38:01):
My best part? Honestly, this episode is so good. How
do I narrow it down? But I think a Buffy
Summers obviously, you know, I love this girl. She is
just so like this girl I think constantly struggles with

(01:38:22):
being the slayer, like it is a thing that you know,
she carries the weight of being the slayer and it
like really it takes a toll on this girl. But
the thing that is always bringing her back is her
incredibly steadfast moral compass. Like, you know, while she's going

(01:38:42):
to drag her feet about the day to day duties
of slayering and like things are hard, she has a
very clear sense of what is right and wrong for her.
And I I don't know, I just I really appreciate.
I think that's incredibly interesting in this show, and I
just love it so much. And I think if I

(01:39:03):
had to narrow it down to a scene, I'd probably
say the scene where she lays the flowers down at
Ford's grave and mourns him and then kills him. Like
I think that that is all you need to know
about Buffy and Summers Like she you know, it is
heavy to do these duties, but she is not going
to not do them, and God, I love her.

Speaker 1 (01:39:26):
He shout out.

Speaker 2 (01:39:29):
Now, listen, what is the gayest part of Yeah, it's Ian.

Speaker 1 (01:39:38):
Miss Steva vamp period.

Speaker 2 (01:39:43):
No line diva.

Speaker 1 (01:39:44):
She came to surface and leave. She came to surface,
steal a book and leave. Oh my god, love her.
What's your gayest part?

Speaker 2 (01:39:54):
I love that. I also think a woman in a
slinky dress and a coat and a choker.

Speaker 1 (01:39:58):
Oh yeah, chantra, I love that, chantrall. I also chantrell
this episode. I've mentioned this before. I've mentioned like the
girl that I knew in high school who used to
draw the Phantom of the Opera on her test wishing
your luck And watching this episode, I was like, was
she doing okay? Like was she like really going through

(01:40:19):
it for thing? Really lost?

Speaker 2 (01:40:20):
Oh my god? No? Maybe? Hey, my God, sending her love, hope.

Speaker 1 (01:40:26):
Love shout out, Well, that is lie to me. Tune
in next week for wild Things.

Speaker 2 (01:40:37):
Hello everyone, welcome to your email segment of the episode.
Oh my god's excited?

Speaker 1 (01:40:44):
No, okay, no, what do we have up first?

Speaker 2 (01:40:47):
I know, I don't know if you're kidding, but I
do feel this way. I do feel this excited to
read an email. Okay, first, let's hear from Eden, shall we?

Speaker 4 (01:40:58):
All?

Speaker 1 (01:40:58):
Right? Hey, y'all all, just wanted to say how grateful
I am for this podcast with a little video from
none other than Spike himself. Your podcast has truly got
me through some hard times, and I'm grateful for the
both of you. Sincerely, Eden, she her.

Speaker 2 (01:41:12):
And here is a clip of this. Obviously it is.
It's like a It's like a two minute long video.
It is incredibly thoughtful and wonderful and everything. It is
riddled with the most spoilery spoilers you could ever hear.

Speaker 1 (01:41:30):
Do we put the full one on our Patreon?

Speaker 2 (01:41:32):
I did?

Speaker 1 (01:41:32):
Yeah, So if you like want to watch the full
video spoilers intact, it is on our Patreon under the
spoiler tab. Yeah, but we're gonna play the spoiler free
cut right now.

Speaker 4 (01:41:44):
Hey, Lena Hey, and is James Marsters a fan wanted
me to reach out and say hi and congratulate you
on the Slave podcast. Good for you, guys, and also,
Happy birthday, Lena, glad you were born.

Speaker 1 (01:41:57):
I was a And Eden asked James what his favorite
line or moment from Spike was, and James does answer,
and it's a wonderful and it's wonderful A big spoiler, huge.

Speaker 2 (01:42:11):
When I saw this, I was on the phone with
someone and I had to switch to I switched to
FaceTime so they could watch it with me, and they
like did They didn't know what Buffy was. They don't
know who this man is. They're just watching me ugly cry, ugly,
ugly sob at literally my crush, my man, James Marster's

(01:42:36):
saying my name it. This was such a thoughtful, thoughtful,
wonderful thing for you to do, Eden. You did not
have to do that. It made me so happy to
receive that. I cannot tell you what that meant to me.

Speaker 1 (01:42:53):
I died dead.

Speaker 2 (01:42:55):
I had to be revived. It was crazy. And I
was texting I and you were asleep.

Speaker 1 (01:43:00):
It's I just gotta take it, says did you get
our email from.

Speaker 2 (01:43:05):
Eden and you never responded? You never responded the next day?
I know, I know, but I was up all night
about it. I was buzzing' I love that James Marsters
and I and also like the thing he said about
like his favorite moment was incredibly thoughtful and wonderful.

Speaker 3 (01:43:22):
And.

Speaker 2 (01:43:25):
I'm excited to a cameo from that.

Speaker 1 (01:43:29):
Man, a very good cameo. Thank you, Eatan. Yeah, I'm
excited to talk about certain moments that we have not
watched yet because James Marsters, you know Shakespeare actor, he
took this character so incredibly seriously and like thought very
deeply about the character and the character's motivations. And there

(01:43:52):
are things that I'm excited to talk about because he
has spoken in interviews about like why he performed certain
lines certain ways, or what his thought process was behind Spiken.
I just think he takes his work very seriously, which
I think is fun.

Speaker 2 (01:44:06):
I agree. Thank you so much, Eden, you have blessed us. Okay,
another email, shall we?

Speaker 1 (01:44:14):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:44:15):
Okay, let's hear from David.

Speaker 1 (01:44:17):
Hey En and Lena. I've been listening to you guys
for years, but never felt like I had anything to
add until now. Much like you two, I love to
analyze and dissect aspects and TV shows that go on
question by the show proper and I wanted to give
my two cents about how the magic system for the
cursed costumes and Halloween probably works. I believe that a

(01:44:38):
person's perception and insight of their costume while wearing it
matters almost as much as said costume. First, we've got
the kids who were dressed as the usual Halloween demons
and ghouls, who in turn transform into those blood hungry monsters.
Then we've got Buffy and Xander, who, unlike the others,
are dressed as a seventeenth century girl and a soldier.

(01:45:00):
These are not separate creatures, they are merely human archtypes,
and so the two sequentially become stereotypes of their costumes,
retaining nothing more than the archetypal characteristics of their respective attires.
So unfortunately, no, I don't think they would remember a
life before that night, something that almost sounds like psychological

(01:45:23):
horror if you think about it for too long. Lastly,
we have Willow, who literally dies in this episode. Hello.
Her becoming a ghost but retaining everything from before might
be because she is tapped in to sunny Dale's weird happenings.
Unlike other sunny Dale citizens who probably see demon possessions
on their commute to work and think nothing of it,

(01:45:44):
Willow is aware of the weird and unusual. Oh my gosh,
very Lydia deets of her. Furthermore, Willow has a more
nuanced view of fantastical creatures, meeting multiple benevolent beings like
Angel and even Sid who was also a spirit. In
con conclusion, I think Willow's and knowledge of the supernatural
saved her from becoming a granny jumping evil spirit, which

(01:46:06):
allowed her to save the day. Yay, Willow. You two
are very special to me and not to get to
pair social, but you guys have gotten me through some
of my toughest times in my teen years. I'm now
a university student. What you two do matters. People need
laughter and to have a good time, especially in a
time like this. With much love, David. He him from Romania.

Speaker 3 (01:46:25):
International listener.

Speaker 1 (01:46:30):
David goodness sakes, thank you for all of this email,
but thank you for that sweet message at the end
that is so kind. Best of luck in university of course,
and a man after our own heart, being like, let's
really dive into this D twelve, this TV.

Speaker 2 (01:46:45):
Show, This is the shit I like to see.

Speaker 1 (01:46:48):
And I really think you're onto something. I think the
strongest case is Xander because Xander's army fatigues are not
from Ethan at all. Those are his own army fatigues.
The only enchanted option he buys is the fake gun,
and that fake gun could be a variety of different costumes. God, yeah, so, David,
I think you really have a point. It's because Xander

(01:47:10):
mentally was like, I'm dressed as a soldier when he
picked up the gun, that the spell turned him into
a soldier. And since Willa Rosenberg is like, ghosts are
just people I met, said the puppet. He was just
a regular pervial man in that puppet. She's like, if
I were turned into a ghost, I'd still be miss

(01:47:31):
Lydia Diet's Willa Rosenberg, but I would just walk through walls. Yeah,
hell yeah, I love this.

Speaker 2 (01:47:38):
If they are archetypal characters and they have no knowledge
of who they are, that is really freaky. I bet
that that would feel so awful. That would feel so awful.

Speaker 1 (01:47:49):
And that also makes me more forgiving of the clunky
ass dialogue. Yeah, oh, Bobby, being like, I wasn't raised
to be brave. I was raised to be pretty and
to find a husband. I don't believe any seventeenth century
woman would actually talk like that.

Speaker 2 (01:48:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:48:04):
But do I believe that this sixteen year old girl
would like yeah. Her perception of a seventeenth century woman
is that she would speak like that. Yes, Oh my god,
says that actually makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 2 (01:48:17):
I agree.

Speaker 1 (01:48:17):
I would love someone to have asked her a question
and then for her to be like, what, like, what's
your name? I don't know. Nothing exists outside this moment,
and in this moment, I am a seventeenth century woman
who wants to marry a man, perhaps a baron, perhaps
a baron?

Speaker 2 (01:48:30):
Who are you? Who are you? I love exactly Well, David,
thank you so much for your email, and thank you
so much for your kind words. I really you know,
I genuinely appreciate hearing this and, like Ian said, fest
of luck with university. Oh my goodness, hell yeah, hell yeah. Okay,
back to your regularly schedule programming.

Speaker 1 (01:48:53):
If you have thoughts on this episode, send them to
us Recovering Cleek at gmail dot com. If you would
like to follow us on social media, you can find
us at RG Presents Underscore podcast on TikTok and Instagram.
If you want to rate and reviewer podcasts, that'd be
like like we would be honored. Like that'd be crazy,
Like I can't even tell you I would like lose
my mind. So you can do that on Spotify Apple

(01:49:16):
podcast would be pretty cool. And you can also find
bonus content, bonus episodes, videos of the episodes with extended
beginnings on our Patreon, patroon dot com, slash Recovering Glee.
And I'm also going to do a shout out to
our best friends of the podcast, our top tier of patrons.

(01:49:36):
Right Nie, is it me?

Speaker 3 (01:49:40):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:49:40):
It is me? Okay, cool? It was me, It is me,
It will always be me. Here's a big thank you
to Celia, Vanessa, Emily Sonya, Aaron, Olivia, Morg's, Ida, Jack Karius,
Elizabeth Depressubbles Ead and Brianna JP, Tanya, Katherine, Shannon and
Rachel Drew, Christine, Kaylin, Rachel Allison, making Audrey, Alexandra, Kylie, Dustin,
as A, Jad and Paul, Julia Vicki, Jasmine Will, Danica,

(01:50:01):
Shlaine Diagono, Toast, Kay Reagan, Pop, Josette, Joe Lo, Madeline Holani,
Elise Blandon, Alice, Paige, Nadia, Niicole, Happy, Christien, Story, Eileen Mallory, Yamantha,
Rebecca Leila Arimurissa Taylor, Frankie, Margaret Espina, Emily, Phoebe Aria,
Eva Haley, Emily, Jacklane, Elsie, Laslow, Ray, m A, Steph, Charlie, Kelsey, Thomas,
Ta chu Cho part of me, Sorry, Judjoe, Brittany, Kenzie, Michael, Katie, Elizabeth,

(01:50:22):
Freddy big thank you to our best friends of the podcast.
And that's done now.

Speaker 2 (01:50:28):
Good job. Thanks, You're welcome everyone, Thank you all for
being here. I love doing this podcast and it's an
honor to share it with y'all. I hope you have
a great rest of your week. I hope you have
a good weekend. I hope you party hard and yeah,
have a sleigh day. H Here is a kiss on
your forehead if you accept it.

Speaker 1 (01:50:49):
B thank you for listening. Follow us at Recovering Gleek
Underscore podcast. Email us at Recovering Gleik atjiba dot com,
Join Patreon, Patreon dot com, slash Recovering Gleek great and
review us and tell your friends.

Speaker 3 (01:51:04):
Please.

Speaker 1 (01:51:05):
Oh my god, that kind of got scary my goodbye. Yeah,
that was rude.

Speaker 2 (01:51:10):
Like it almost sounded like you're you were like doing
two notes to the song.

Speaker 1 (01:51:14):
Oh yeah, I went major vocal fry. I don't know
if I can do it again, but yeah, but yeah