BtVS S3E5 Reptile Boy

Be wary of college boys who want to party with high school girls. At best they're creeps, at worst they are cultists bent on sacrificing you to an ancient snake demon who's the physical embodiment of the patriarchy

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
What's a fun opener. A fun opener is is that
we are on a time crunch. That's the opener. The
opener is start the episode. Recovering Gleek presents.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
A clear Buffy podcast. Hi everyone, my name is Lena
and my name is Zian, and welcome too a queer
Buffy podcast. We are genuinely happy to have you.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
Oh my god, Hi everyone. This week we are talking
about season two, episode five, Reptile Boy. I do have
a disclaimer before we jump into the nitty gritty, which
is I have a harder out than usual this week,
so this episode might be a little on the shorter side,

(00:58):
but we are going to be we are going to
be defying having a grandle time talking about reptel Boy.
I'm just telling you if this episode is not like
as long as they tend to do it, yes, that.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
Is, you gotta tell you mean very nervous, very nervous.
I know we are on a short we are on
a little bit of a time crunch, but oh my god,
I have so much to say about this episode, so
I will do my best.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
I would love to hear all your thoughts. I am
not of the mindset of like, let's not like, let's
leave out thoughts about the episode. I am like, if
we sacrifice anything, maybe we like jump right into slacks.

Speaker 2 (01:40):
You know, yeah, totally, But I.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
Think our discussion of the episode is a priority. Big
said before we jump into slacks.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
I do well, period, Well, I mean that's so important.
I can't believe we've gone nearly seven seventeen episodes, yes,
without talking about our open psychometrics. To me, that's the
end all be all of Like really any quiz ever,
I make every person in my literal life take this test.
So yeah, we need to talk about this. This is

(02:07):
this is no.

Speaker 1 (02:08):
Number one we talk about you, you listeners. Remember back
during Glee, we made all of our guests take the
Open Psychometrics character quiz to see what Glee characters they were,
And it totally slipped our mind that we could just
do the same thing for Buffy. So we have now
done it for Buffy. We are ready. We are prepared
to share our answers with each other.

Speaker 2 (02:30):
We are would you like to go first?

Speaker 1 (02:32):
I can go first. We want to like guess what
the other person is sure, So something that is a
kind of a bummer about open psychometrics, but it's good
for a spoiler free podcast is that they only list
six characters from Buffy and it is our six core
cast right now, right now to Yeah, Buffy has like
so many main characters over the course of the show. Yeah,

(02:56):
so tragically, there are a lot of characters that I
feel like I relate to and I feel like you
relate to that just aren't ours period. Yeah, but for
a podcast that is avoiding spoilers, it's nice because we
can openly talk about all six that are on the quick.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
You know, I think this is great. Okay, what if
I think that you got first. I'm gonna guess Willow girl,
you know.

Speaker 1 (03:22):
Berg period, Willow Rosenberg at seventy six percent. Okay's hi.
During our season wrap up, someone emailed and asked what
combination of characters we were, and I said, I felt
like I was a Willow Rosenberg slash the person we
haven't met yet. Yeah, the one we don't know yet,
I think, yes, the verbiage we used, and the one

(03:43):
we don't know yet is unknown by open psychometrics as well. Yeah,
so I do believe that they would be number two
after Willow, But number two on open psychometrics is Rupert Giles.
Oh I love so According to this website, I'm a
Willow Rupert.

Speaker 2 (03:57):
Okay, I love this.

Speaker 1 (03:59):
And then my very last is love her to death
Cordelia Chase.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
Really okay, I love Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 (04:09):
So I feel pretty good about this list. Angel is
a little higher than I would Let's see, he's he's four,
so Buffy's above him. Got blessed. My top three honestly
couldn't be happier. Willow Rupert Buffy.

Speaker 2 (04:23):
That's great. I honestly I feel like that that reads
to me as an incredibly well rounded individual.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
Oh, thank you so much. That's so kind.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
You're I'm just kidding. Oh no, I'm kidding. I' kidding.
I'm kidding.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
Who's your top? I genuinely feel like you're a Buffy Summers.

Speaker 2 (04:42):
Well, okay, and listen. I took this test twice to
firm because the first time I was like, I don't
know if I'm like trying to get Buffy, but listen, yeah,
me and and not not just that, she is like
genue very high up there, and I was like, oh,

(05:03):
thank god. So I took it twice to confirm, to get.

Speaker 1 (05:06):
Affirm that reads to me like that is not a
shock to me at all.

Speaker 2 (05:12):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (05:15):
Very much. A girl's girl. Buffy is like very emotionally intelligent,
Buffy like very much can handle herself, you know, Because
there's what I'm trying to say is there are kick
ass female characters who are written to just kind of
be very masculine, to like be essentially a man, but

(05:36):
it's actually a woman, and Buffy is not that. Buffy
is so powerful in her femininity and in being a
girl's girl. And that is very much the feeling I
get from you.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
Thank you. That means all.

Speaker 1 (05:50):
It does not surprise me at all.

Speaker 2 (05:52):
That means a lot to me. And I since I
was a child, I've seen this girl, and I've seen
a lot of myself and her, so, I mean, and
she's like someone who I hold to such high regard.
So thinking that I'm like in any way similar to her,
I'm like, okay, wait, maybe I love myself. Yeah, so
she was number one. I have eighty seven percent for her,

(06:13):
which is pretty high.

Speaker 1 (06:14):
My gosh, that's really high. That's really high.

Speaker 2 (06:18):
And I genuinely was not trying, like I tried to
do it twice. So I did it twice. Genuinely looking
inward to be honest, because I knew I would skew it, okay.
And then a number two h huh, Cordelia Chase, which
I feel like that. I feel like that tracks for me. Yeah,

(06:38):
number three, you might love this. I think other people
will hear this and hate this Xader Harris, but I
don't think that's like too far off. I'm always hitting
on women. I wear silly shirts. No, I mean so yeah,
higher than I want them to be. But I do

(06:58):
like I can see parts of myself that I would
like maybe put in a Xander category.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
Like silly Xander is what the show wants Zander to be,
and it is, you know, up to the opinion of
the viewer if this is successful. But what the show
wants Xander to be is the heart of the group,
like it has harped on many times that he is
the emotional core of the group. And I think that's
very true of you.

Speaker 2 (07:24):
Yeah, and I can see that. Angel for me is
number four as well. So that's where we meet. That's
where we meet. Willow is five, and then Giles is six.

Speaker 1 (07:34):
Unfortune very well rounded because my top two year bottom
two and then your two three are my five six
I love, and then Angel.

Speaker 2 (07:44):
And an Angel.

Speaker 1 (07:46):
In this podcast. He's nowhere to be seen in this podcast,
neither the Angel to the table.

Speaker 2 (07:51):
Oh. I also I checked my Glease stats as well.
I got Mercedes Jones at the top this time, which.

Speaker 1 (07:56):
I got Mercedes Jones at the topless time. Ernie got
to vote in to number four.

Speaker 2 (08:01):
I love. I feel like that means we've grown a lot.

Speaker 1 (08:04):
Yeah, however, Rachel was the last place.

Speaker 2 (08:07):
Oh t.

Speaker 1 (08:07):
I was like, good because she is not a good person.
But I do feel like that's just actually incorrect.

Speaker 2 (08:13):
Sure, I look at Glee, I just.

Speaker 1 (08:16):
Feel like I identify it with her a lot.

Speaker 2 (08:18):
I hear you, Yeah, Mercedes Jones, Kurt Hummel, Britney Pierce,
Hell Yeah. And then already Emon was number fifteen. Where's
Rachel here? Rachel number ten?

Speaker 1 (08:28):
Hey, I guess I got like Mercedes, Mike Chain, Chang,
Blaine Anderson as my top three.

Speaker 2 (08:34):
Oh, I feel like I see that pretty good. Hey, damn,
way more Glee characters than there are Buffy characters.

Speaker 1 (08:42):
I know.

Speaker 2 (08:42):
I seriously everybody needs to take this quiz. I love
taking this quiz. Me and my friends we take this
quiz all the time. I gotta see what girl? I am?

Speaker 3 (08:51):
Girl?

Speaker 2 (08:51):
What girl?

Speaker 1 (08:52):
Are you?

Speaker 2 (08:52):
WHOA? This is not what I anticipated. I got Shashaana,
but I mean, okay, we don't have to do this.
We have a heart.

Speaker 1 (08:59):
I got Sashauna as well. Crazy too show Sean has
had a podcast and they talk about Buffy. Speaking of
a podcast talking about Buffy.

Speaker 2 (09:04):
We're talking about repdial Boy from Bubby the vampires Layer
and will you tell me some slacks?

Speaker 1 (09:09):
I will tell you some slacks. Oh yeah, it's time.

Speaker 3 (09:15):
So.

Speaker 1 (09:15):
Reptile Boy from Bubby the Vampire Slayer is the fifth
episode of season two. It's the seventeenth episode overall. It
was written by David Greenwaltz with some help by Joss Whedon.
It's interesting because sometimes the episodes say written by David
greenwalt and Joss Whedon, and sometimes they say David Greenwaltz
with Joss Whedon. So I imagine, oh yeah, in my.

Speaker 2 (09:37):
Mind, it's just like he's got he's the idea man.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's not like a two hander,
it's like a it's like a one and a half hander.
It's directed by David greenwalt It is David Greenwalt's first
time directing Shout Out Out. It was released on October thirteenth,
nineteen ninety seven. Here's some facts of the episode. Frankly,

(10:03):
bit of a desert, bit of a ghost town. Not
a lot going on behind the scenes this week. This
is the first time that the term patrolling is used
to describe when Buffy is surveying the graveyard at night.
Fuck yeah, prior to this they call it hunting. From
here on out, that will always be called patrolling. She's

(10:23):
going on patrol, She's patrolling. She's gonna do it nightly.
The demon in this episode is called Makita. David Greenwalt
came up with that name, and he was very proud
of himself. He's like, Oh, what a good demon name.
That came out of my brain, Makita. And then he
started paying attention to work and realized that a lot
of the sound equipment that they used on the set
was called Mikdo, and he was like, oh, I just

(10:47):
fully stole that name.

Speaker 2 (10:48):
I feel like that happens to me literally all the time.
Or I'll see something and be like I feel like
I came up with that and it's like nope, I'm
literally being subliminally messaged all day. I've looked at that
word every single day for the last year.

Speaker 1 (11:01):
He got sublivity messaged by uh the technicians on his
very own set. I love that Marty Knoxon, who's a
future writer. She might currently be a writer, but she's
a future like executive producer of Buffy. She has acknowledged
post this episode that there is a lot of phallic
imagery in the episode and that is all intentional. Whoa,

(11:25):
and then I didn't.

Speaker 2 (11:26):
I didn't notice it.

Speaker 1 (11:28):
Notice the phallic imagery, like Buffy holds a sword at
one point. Sure I needed to pay more attention to
the background of the frat house. I guess they got
the oblong windows.

Speaker 2 (11:43):
Oh sure, I'll have to go back and watch, because
I literally I wasn't getting that at all.

Speaker 1 (11:51):
I know, Hey, Marty knox is just a big PERV.
Just kidding, Marty knocks and I literally love you're like
one of the Buffy writer that's our girl. Heck yeah,
Mighty knox On. What did she write on Glee? I'm
not doubting you. I actually do remember that, but I'm
trying to remember she wrote Extraordinary Merry Christmas and Choke yes, okay.

Speaker 2 (12:12):
And she was also like on staff writing as well. Yeah,
but those are the two.

Speaker 1 (12:18):
The actor who played Makita, Robin Atkin Downs, returns in
an episode of Angel titled dead End. He's not playing Mikida,
He's just playing another unspecified.

Speaker 2 (12:28):
I thank god, I'm glad. I'm glad Buffy killed him.

Speaker 1 (12:31):
Well in the original draft of the script. She didn't
kill him in the original draft of the script. She
slices his tail off and they're all like get like, hooray,
we saved the day. And Cordelia does the whole like
you're going to jail for fifteen thousand years. And then
as the Scoobies are leaving, Mikita regenerates must like much
like a lizard, much like a reptile, he can grow

(12:55):
another tail. And then he's I'm trying to remember the
like exact specifics of it, but long story short, he's
gonna go back into his den. Oh. He fully has
a line, that's what it is. He like says to Tom,
you know you have failed me, whatever, whatever, and like
I'm revoking my blessing on you. And then he grabs

(13:17):
Tom and pulls Tom into his layer. And then you
hear Tom getting eaten.

Speaker 2 (13:21):
Oh well, damn, I would have loved to see Tom
get eaten. That motherfucker.

Speaker 1 (13:26):
The nineteen ninety seven CGI was not complex enough to
pull that off, and so they're like, easier, just keep
him dead.

Speaker 2 (13:34):
I'm fine by that.

Speaker 4 (13:36):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (13:36):
Another weird thing about this episode is that canonically vampires
can't go into houses unless they're invited in an angel
oh never gets invited in which some people I saw
a lot of like mental gymnastics about this.

Speaker 2 (13:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (13:51):
Some people are like, well, it's a fraternity, so it's
like an open house, you know. Yeah, so there's no
issue going into the buildings.

Speaker 2 (13:58):
The pybely couldn't go into people's room and stuff, but
like the book is probably different.

Speaker 1 (14:04):
Okay, that is the conclusion that people came to because
in a future episode, a vampire cannot go into a
college dorm room. But people were like, but it's a
dorm room, like that's a home, but like the doorways
building is probably fine. Yeah, So that is the conclusion
that the internet has come to on that.

Speaker 2 (14:23):
I'm with them.

Speaker 1 (14:25):
And finally some alternative titles. You ready for this? Yes? There,
I'm going to be honest. Not winners except for one,
which is a huge winner. A lot of them are
reptile boy, snake boy, lizard man, that kind of thing.
Japanese disgusting boy, that'sh period, French devotion, Sure German the

(14:50):
Secret Society. Yeah, sure, Uh I gave away the good one.
I read it in the wrong order. Now, okay, pretend
this is Pretend it's your first time here it okay,
Italian macab party and the best one is you ready?

Speaker 2 (15:05):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (15:05):
I can't believe I did that. Japanese disgusting boy. Damn it.

Speaker 2 (15:13):
The disgusting boy is really really really good disgusting boy.
These boys disgust me.

Speaker 1 (15:20):
And that's the thing is, you don't know who the
disgusting boy is. Is reptile boy. You're like, well, the
reptile boy is the one with the lizard skin. He's
the one that has scales. But the disgusting boy is
it Mikita or is it Tom?

Speaker 2 (15:32):
I honestly like that a little better too.

Speaker 1 (15:35):
Yeah. It's it's it's giving not to dom what makes
a monster and what makes a man?

Speaker 2 (15:40):
Mm hmmm. Because it's also like you know, going into
the episode, you know that there's gonna be some sort
of reptile involved a reptile boy, exactly a reptile boy,
but like to call it a disgusting boy, like any
is a disgusting boy to me. Yes, ye, watching this
movie like as young as I did, it like instilled

(16:02):
a real fear of Greek life to me, you know,
And I know in lot of people who were in sororities,
but I seriously fraternities. Oh you couldn't.

Speaker 1 (16:13):
I was.

Speaker 2 (16:13):
I was invited to frat parties in college. Did I
ever go Hell the fuck? No? I didn't, Hell the
fuck no, I did not.

Speaker 1 (16:20):
I saw them go down into that basement in robes,
praying to a demon, and I genuine it is like,
this is how I view frat parties, fraternities just straight up,
this is what they are.

Speaker 2 (16:35):
Yeah, brain, I do not, and I know they're important
to so many, to so many people, and I'm not
I'm not knocking on that, I promise, but I do
have a healthy fear of them. And don't you forget it.
Do you want to hear a recap?

Speaker 1 (16:54):
I love nothing more than to hear a recap.

Speaker 2 (16:57):
Listen. I don't name any of these boys, and I
meant to at least call out Tom, but you know,
who I'm talking about.

Speaker 1 (17:05):
The disgusting boys.

Speaker 2 (17:06):
Yeah, the disgusting boys. Okay. Previously on Buffy the Vampire Slayer,
bro everyone needs to step off Buffy's neck. Giles is
laying into her like crazy, and Angels is being such
a little jerk to her and giving her the run
around and being such a little fucking jerk. Cordelia is
cozying up to some college boys and they won't invite
Cordy unless she invites Buffy to the frat party. So

(17:29):
she lies to Giles and goes to the frat party. Wooho,
just kidding. These fucking assholes are a part of a
whole demonic system that sacrifices the young woman to a
demon snake guy and to like get rich or something.
It's sick. Willow and Giles and Xander and Angel show
up to assist in kicking frat bro ass and Buffy
slays the patriarchy. You cannot trust a man, and that's
what you missed on Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

Speaker 1 (17:51):
That's true, you can't. Oh my god, Lena Ian, you
have big thoughts about disgusting boy.

Speaker 2 (18:01):
I love this episode. I think this episode is like
like horror, like a perfect horror movie. Like it's the
way it starts with the young woman from the Kent
School like screaming, running, being a beautiful scream queen, and
the guys like trapping her, and then recognizing that guy

(18:23):
later and then seeing how like fucked up like Buffy
is in like her life and you know, wanting to
break free of it, and then getting into more trouble
in turn, like this is just like it's slash her
movie realness. It is genuinely like probably one of the
scariest episodes to me, Like it is awful, scary, nasty, disgusting. Boy,

(18:46):
I want to kill these different bros so fucking bad,
but I think it is ultimately really beautiful to you know,
watch Buffy and especially oh my god, that fucking Tom Tom.
If I ever see you in these streets, it is
literally over, I hate this asshole, you know, and he's

(19:08):
the one like she recognizes immediately that this other guy
is like a total douchebag. She's like, I'm so not interested,
like you're a douchebag, Like I'm not fucking with you.
And it's those more covert people in like men in
the patriarchy who are like playing up their like nice
boy persona who real you into something that is disgusting

(19:29):
and ultimately going to kurt and kill you. This is
so true, like how many I can't even get into
my feelings about that in real life, but I think
this is such a beautiful way to do it, and
to watch Buffy fall for this guy's tricks and then
I don't know, slay the patriarchy at the end of it.
I just love it so much. I really just think

(19:51):
this episode is so fun. It is totally an episode.
If I had to like put together a list of
episodes to show someone to like maybe show them what
Buffy's all about, I'd put this on that list. I
think it is, like, you know, obviously it's a continuation
of what she's going what's happening with Angel, but like
it is like a really awesome bottle episode, I would say.

(20:13):
And I just think this episode is lovely. I just
think it is so fun and so scary and it's
so sad and I love it and it makes me
feel rage and it's so nice to rage against the patriarchy.
For a second, you can't trust you cannot cannot trust
a fraternity.

Speaker 1 (20:35):
Her first, Hey, how do.

Speaker 2 (20:36):
You feel about this episode. Do you like it?

Speaker 1 (20:38):
Really? I really like this. I I obviously recognize the
whole like patriarchy, the lesson about the dangers of parties
and the dangers of people, especially men who are very
nice to you and you don't in the words of Stephen,

(20:59):
sometimes is different than good period. You don't know what
their intentions are, Like this episode. And this is not
a diss at all. It's not subtle like Allegory is making.
Is not subtle at all. I did not fully appreciate
until you just talked about it, the slasher of it all.
You're so right, Like seeing Richard in the opening shot

(21:19):
getting the girl, and then we see that Cordily is
like talking about this college guy that she's so interested in,
and then we see his face and it's like, that's
the guy from the opening that was like kidnapping that girl. Yeah,
you are very You make really good points there, just
the constant. I don't really have anything to add. It's
just it is a very good, forty five minute kind

(21:41):
of slasher movie. And I love that Tom is a
nice guy.

Speaker 2 (21:48):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (21:49):
Yeah, Like, obviously, as you mentioned, you know that Richard's
up to no good from a mile.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
Oh my god, of course look at his fucking face.

Speaker 1 (21:59):
Yeah. Disgusting boy, disgusting boy. And I just think not
only is like Tom, you know, complicit, but the fact
that he's the main one, like he is the avatar
they used to commute with, communicate with mckisa. Seriously, I
think it's awesome. I think it's great. And Callie, the

(22:21):
girl from Kent even says when they're chained up, she says,
one of them is different from the rest. He's nice,
He's the one you need to look the worst one.

Speaker 2 (22:29):
Oh yeah, God, seriously, because that's the thing is, you know,
men and like the patriarchy in general, they will use
whatever tactic they can to hurt women. End of story.

Speaker 1 (22:43):
Yeah, it makes me sick.

Speaker 2 (22:45):
Also, like beyond that, I I was looking online and
I would love to hear whatever your feeling is about this,
the stuff with Angel in this episode, specifically, No, when
you kiss me.

Speaker 1 (23:04):
I want to die. I want to die.

Speaker 2 (23:05):
I want to die. I genuinely I'm begging you to
tell me your real true feelings about this, and I'll
tell you mine first. This line chemically changed me. Okay, listen. Obviously,
Giles's being such a jerk to her this episode, Angel

(23:29):
has been such a fuckhead for weeks to her weeks,
and he like turns it around on her, like, especially
in this episode, he turns it around on her like
she's the one torturing him. Angela, if I see you
in these streets, it's over. It's over. I'll beat you

(23:49):
up by promise. But especially this episode, he's like, oh,
of course you don't want to take me out to coffee,
then you're gonna fucking fall in love with me. And
I classic you like I can't, I shouldn't have given you,
and in you're taking a mile from me, and it's like,
are you kidding, Like you're the one who's been like
sneaking into her room, You're the one who's been torturing
her for weeks, You're the one who's been covertly hanging

(24:09):
out with her teacher slash Dad, like pissing me off
to no end. This has been seriously and I'm glad
I've called it every time because he's pissing me the
fuck off. But he has also this way of bringing
her in as well, where he she knows that he
wants her, he does he's showing up to her job.

(24:30):
He's showing up wherever she is. He's showing up like
and like giving her the run round, and he's like, well, listen,
if I kiss you, it's going to be the end
of you. And she's like, no, when you kiss me,
I want to die. And this means to me so
many things. This means like you make me maybe even
want to be a vampire. But it also is like

(24:51):
every ounce of kindness you're giving me comes with so
much bullshit. Every time you're around me, I feel like nothing.
When you kiss me, I want to die. And obviously
that's such a violent thing to say. And I've seen
a lot of people online say that it's like teen
girl drama, but I think that's like super reductive personally,

(25:14):
and I genuinely I want you to feel however you
feel about it. If you hate it, like please tell me,
because I think that's good. And I do think people
hate it, and I think that's fine, But personally I
think it's reductive, So fuck you, no, but I think
it's reductive, and like, this girl is going through hell
in a fucking hand basket, and for so long he's
been the only one who like understood her, and he's

(25:34):
being such a fuck ass to her, and also just
genuinely I'm a romantic and I appreciate the drama. And
I was a really dramatic and I still am. I'm
a genuinely like very dramatic person, and so I have
felt that feeling before where it's like every time you
are nice to me, you're also an asshole. You make

(25:55):
me feel like shit, like I'm nothing. So I that
lie in comically changed me. I love it so much,
the drama of like him grabbing her shoulders and like
the like the lent, like the shot. Oh my god,
oh my god. I literally I saw that at like
fourteen years old, and I I have not been the same.

Speaker 1 (26:15):
And when you saw that scene, you wanted to die.

Speaker 2 (26:17):
I wanted to die.

Speaker 1 (26:18):
When you say when you kiss me, I want to die,
I want to die.

Speaker 2 (26:21):
No seriously, okay, what did you What did you think
about it?

Speaker 1 (26:25):
The Angel of it all, I'm like, I think is fun,
Like I think the dark romance drama is intriguing, and
I'm like, oh angel is Angel is public enemy number
one to me. I hate his ass. Angel pisses me off,
and I'm glad that Buffy is being rude to him

(26:47):
because I'm like, girl, have some self respect. This guy
literally sucks.

Speaker 2 (26:50):
Yea.

Speaker 1 (26:50):
I hate the fact that Xander keeps hitting on Buffy,
but I do love the fact that Xander hates Angel.
I like you, Actually, I need you to give up
on hoping that she'll fall for you, but I do
need you to keep dunking on her asshole boyfriend. I
love it, Like.

Speaker 2 (27:07):
Who I'm saying, I'm with that guy? Wait, man, how's
it going?

Speaker 1 (27:10):
Angel?

Speaker 2 (27:10):
Like?

Speaker 1 (27:11):
I okay? First, because you brought it up. That's one
of my top two laugh moments of the episode. I
love that is Xander reading the newspaper saying, exactly what
you said? Does every have every conversation we have have
to come around to that freak talking about Angel turning
seeing that Angel is that going? Hey man, how you doing?
Going back to the paper Angel Aul dramatically saying Buffy,

(27:33):
Buffy dramatically going Angel and Xander going Xander. That made
me laugh.

Speaker 2 (27:41):
I that's my favorite role of Xander's right now part
of the group, my ass. He's here to be mean
to that weird oh free because he called freak to
his face.

Speaker 1 (27:51):
Because he's Angel humble, because God knows he needs it.

Speaker 2 (27:55):
And that's the thing too, is Willow is so team
Angel in this episode. It lacks like kind of I
was so weird about. She's like, you guys are mean
for each other, and I was like, Willow, please, I'm
begging you to be reasonable.

Speaker 1 (28:08):
But she also Willow also talks smack to Angel's face.

Speaker 2 (28:13):
And that's my favorite part of the episode. But like
even still, like you know, I mean, I'm not, I
personally not a basic teenager.

Speaker 1 (28:21):
She loves her best friend and best friends in love.
It's you get caught up in the romance of it all.
I cat where she's coming.

Speaker 2 (28:29):
I mean, who are you talking to? Who get caught
up in the romance of it all? I don't know
what the fuck you're talking about. No, no, I agree, but
I mean, I just this guy is torturing her. This
guy is like making her life hell.

Speaker 1 (28:46):
Sod. I literally I have written so many notes in
all caps about how mad I am at Angel. In
this episode, he goes up to her. She's trying to
move the relationship forward. She's saying, hey, let's get coffee
at night at the Bronze, our local coffee shop, and
he goes into this bullshit about like you're sixteen. You're

(29:10):
so young, you don't know what you want. Listen, if
we date, you know, one thing's gonna lead to another.
Lest we fucking forget. He is the one who kissed Buffy.
He is the one who has been sneaking into her room,
the room, watching her sleep. He is the one who
has been hot and cold, really interesting and blowing her off.

(29:30):
It sounds to me like you don't know what you
want exactly. Miss sixteen year old has actually been pretty
vocal about what she's wanted since the jump, and you
are the one that is like filip floppy, wishy washy,
and you're trying to put it all on her. It's
called projection. Angel.

Speaker 2 (29:48):
Yeah, literally, he needs to telling yourself again, telling on yourself,
Psycho proper.

Speaker 1 (29:53):
I am like, I'm genuinely so over him, Angel. If
you have no enemies, I'm dead. You piss me the
fuck off.

Speaker 2 (30:01):
Bro. He's making me mad. And that's the thing is,
I feel so many ways about it too, because everyone knows.
Everyone knows I think David Briannis is hot, I'm alive,
and everyone knows I'm into the dark romance of it all.
But seriously, he makes me angry, and that's what ultimately
makes me not personally a b Angel shipper is I'm like,

(30:24):
he just he does it for me, but he pisses
me off and I can't. I'm like, I struggle to
see redeeming qualities in him other than he is hot
as all hell.

Speaker 1 (30:37):
Yeah, and I can respect to like he wants to
be with her, but that he knows in the end
that's dangerous. Like, yeah, I understand. What's really pissing me
off is that he's trying to make it seem like
it's actually her fault exactly if he were wishy washy
and he's straight up we're like, hey, I know I
kissed you and like I am attracted to you, but like,

(30:58):
at the end of the day, this is bad and
this is dangerous.

Speaker 2 (31:02):
He assumes no responsibility for any of it. It's all
this sixteen year old girl who's coming on to him
and what you want, no, exactly, and when it's all her,
it's all him, And she even says like, no, I
know exactly what I want. It's you.

Speaker 1 (31:17):
Yeah, I'm telling you, disgusting boy, that's you Angels too. Yeah,
I don't think your your ass is safe, babe. You're
disgusting ass.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
Disgusting ass.

Speaker 1 (31:29):
Oh my gosh. That's my thoughts on the banngel of
it all in this episode. It's that he made me
I was seeing red.

Speaker 2 (31:37):
Oh my god. Off it is thrilling, though.

Speaker 1 (31:41):
Yeah, like I'm you know, it's drama, and I'm intrigued
by the drama. I'm also not going to be rooting
for them, No.

Speaker 2 (31:52):
Not at all. Yeah, but that line, I feel like
I had, like you know, on my Tumblr that like
upset and I would like reblog it like once a month.

Speaker 1 (32:04):
When you kiss me, I want to die.

Speaker 2 (32:06):
Oh my god. I feel like I felt that way,
you know, especially like you know, it's so hard to be,
you know, a teenager. It's so hard to grow up.
It's so hard to like put yourself out there romantically,
and it's so hard to like put your heart out
there and to like have someone you know that they
like you, you know that they like feel like feel

(32:27):
for you, and then like show you that they feel
for you in so many moments, but then treat you
like shit or like hide you, or like you know,
for whatever reason, don't want to go further with you.
It's like you I like, this is so bad. This
is so awful, Like this is so hard and so

(32:48):
fuck you Angel. Seeing Red, I totally agree. He was
really making me mad, Oh my god. And he's just
been making me mad this whole this whole like season.
How many episodes are we in, like five episodes? In
every single episode he'd be pissing me off, even the
ones he's not in.

Speaker 1 (33:03):
Even last week, I was mad that he wasn't there.
The Mummy's on the loose, Angel.

Speaker 2 (33:10):
Count on him.

Speaker 1 (33:11):
Yeah, something that's so interesting about this episode speaking of that,
which this is not really a complaint, it's just kind
of weird that they don't call it out. They do
this big rescue mission. Willow and Giles put together that
something sketchy's happening at the fraternity, and then Willa's like, Okay,
I have to tell you a secret. Buffy's not actually

(33:32):
at home. She's at the fraternity party. They go on
a rescue mission. They could pick up Angel Xander has
gone independently on a rescue mission to the fraternity. All
of them band together to save Buffy. Yeah, they don't
actually do anything, like they fight frat brothers upstairs who
weren't affecting Buffy at all in this moment anyway, exactly,

(33:54):
Buffy downstairs, of her own volition, breaks the trains, steals
the sword, kills Mikita, which once again I'm all for.
It's just interesting because the episode never acknowledges like, Okay,
but you guys didn't actually help, she did the whole thing.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
Yeah, and she was dying, yeah, which I mean, I agree,
Like I would have been angry if it was like,
you know, Xander comes in.

Speaker 1 (34:21):
And the men save her from the Patriot.

Speaker 2 (34:22):
Yeah. No, I hate that. So I'm really glad that
Buffy is ultimately the one who you know, finishes the job,
so to speak. But no, totally, like you know, and
that's it's such a scary part of the episode too,
you know, seeing that Buffy and Cordelia have been like
roof feed by these frat bros, like extremely upsetting, Oh

(34:46):
my god, disgusting. Yes, And that's that's the thing that
I think is so these guys they like keep like
making fun of her for being so young. They're like, oh, yeah,
well when I was young, I wasn't intomature stuff either.

Speaker 1 (35:02):
It's like, yeah, when she says she doesn't want to
drink alcohol and Richard says, when I was your age,
I didn't like grown up stuff either.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
I really ask I'm calling the fucking police disgusting. And
that's the thing.

Speaker 1 (35:16):
Too, is.

Speaker 2 (35:18):
For these frat bros to show up to a high
school to like scout these girls out to hit on them.
It's like, and you know, you feel for this guy
who's kind of like bumbling over his words, but he's
still like hitting on this child. It makes me.

Speaker 1 (35:35):
Feel sick at the university. Red flag, red flag, red god.

Speaker 2 (35:40):
Oh my god. I mean he's younger than her other boyfriend,
but even still, like this is just so. And I
mean college guys will do this shit too, like they
disgust me, and like they will, you know, prey on that.
Women and girls, girls, children, Yeah, feel more mature for

(36:02):
their age. We've talked about this before, feel more mature
for their age, so they will like prey on that
and be like, yeah, well, I guess you're just a baby.
You're just like your babyish, like you're not mature like
I thought you were. When it's like, you know, all
all Buffy has been feeling this whole episode. She has
like no control over her life. She has like a

(36:23):
really high pressure job she has really high pressure relationships
and like she can't even have any fun, Like when
she goes to these parties she stands in a corner alone,
or she gets made fun of for not drinking alcohol,
Like it's it makes me, it makes me sick. But
I just think it's you know, like you said, it's

(36:46):
like it's not none of these things. These things are covert,
but I've also like heard so many of these things
in my real life, so I just think it's like
really important too.

Speaker 1 (36:59):
Yes, once again, and I genuinely watching this episode, this
is how I view fraternities. Obviously, I don't think a
snake demon lives in the basement. Yeah, but like none
of this felt outlandish to me at all. This is
the the image that comes to mind when I think
of fraternity.

Speaker 2 (37:15):
Exactly, and even like when oh my god, it literally
makes me sick when Buffy like starts feeling woozy, so
she finds like a room to lay down in and
one of the guys like goes to hurt her, and
then Tom someone who steps in, is like, come on, man,
we're not like that where it's like that guy just
did that because he's a fucking creep, Like not just

(37:36):
because his entire patriarchal line relies on these girls being sacrificed,
like he can just toy with her because he doesn't
even think she's a human being, and she doesn't. She's
not worth it, she's not worth respect. It's genuinely so upsetting.
But it's also like that fully happens, that one hundred
percent happens, Like men will get women, women and girls

(37:58):
into vulnerable positions and take advantage of them just because
they can.

Speaker 1 (38:02):
Yeah. Well, Tom has a line which I loved that
Tom had this line where when Buffy is chained up
and fully in their eyes, is gonna die like they
thought her. She's chained up, she's just some girls. She's
gonna be sacrificed. They have won, and she starts saying
something to Makita and Tom says, no woman speaks to him.

(38:26):
That it shows like it's not just that you know,
Tom is in this because it's been in his family
for generations and it's bringing them fortune. He does not
view women.

Speaker 2 (38:37):
As people exactly, and he even says that in the beginning,
he's like, I only do this because my like my
dad and my grandpas did it. It's like like sure,
maybe there's some truth to that, but you genuinely don't
see women as people. And it shows in these in
these high pressure moments, because even these nice guys will
be like, well, no, I just do that because and

(38:58):
then they show you, they show you that their misogynists
and they don't and they don't respect women.

Speaker 1 (39:04):
And I liked a lot of the fraternity stuff. I
liked the Tom's father and grandfather in the fraternity. I
liked the a lot of former members of this fraternity
are now like high power CEOs and this, that and
the other, because I think that's very true fraternities. And
I also think that that is the way that the

(39:26):
patriarchy is systemic and gets people who maybe in other
situations would you know, like have empathy and view other
human beings as human beings, to become corrupted by it. Yeah,
because these patriarchal societies have this view of like it's

(39:47):
a brotherhood, it's going to move you forward in life.
You're going to go very big places. Also like it's
been in our family, like it's a family tradition. And
also you you know, you join and I'm obviously I'm
not saying that all fraternities are.

Speaker 5 (39:59):
Like, yeah, in general, yes, you go to a situation
and it's a situation where like your human empathetic brain
is going, this is a little sideways.

Speaker 1 (40:11):
But then you think, well, my dad did this and
my grandfather did this, so it must not actually be bad.
I must be overreacting, and then you start to desensitize
yourself towards it.

Speaker 2 (40:20):
I mean, and to bring up a current event, it's
the Epstein list of it all. Yeah, all of these
high powered men who are like in politics, in movies,
in actors, like huge high powered individuals are going to
this huge event this island and like going off and

(40:42):
taking pictures with each other because of whatever the fucking reason.
And so many people are like, well, I mean, I
was just there for business. I was just there for business.
Where it's like, no, your business is like hurting young women,
Your business is hurting people. Your business maybe is just
like you know, to to what you're telling telling your
your family is just shaking hands with your bros. But

(41:04):
in fact is like far more fucking sinister. Honestly, I'm
like getting emotional like that shit pisses me off. And
this is such a obviously this is just a TV
show but I think like it's it's a it's a
forty five minute capture of like genuinely this shit really
genuinely happens. Like, are there demons we're being sacrificed to?

(41:26):
I don't think so. But like men in power do
not see people in vulnerable positions as people and are
willing to do anything to impress each other to hurt people.
And I literally I can't even put into words. I
feel sick. But even still this episode is uh, you know,

(41:52):
I think important.

Speaker 1 (41:53):
Yeah. I also like Xander has a through line long
before we know about the deal worshiping of it all,
he has a through line of just hating the fraternity
guys because he's like, these are just rich assholes who
just help each other become richer assholes like I. Xander,

(42:14):
as we know, and as we will continue to find out,
comes from a low income family. His house, like his
family life is not very good, and he just has
this attitude of like these are this is always the
upper class who is preying on us in the lower class,
And that is very true. Like these people in these

(42:35):
high profile positions, in these very powerful positions, look out
for each other, reward each other, and you themselves as
like the elite, like we are more worthy because we
have this success, and anyone who isn't at this level
of success is less worthy of whatever it may be.

(42:55):
And it is easier to dehumanize people who are poor
because we only view those who are rich and successful
as human beings.

Speaker 2 (43:05):
Yeah, exactly, bro, No, it's fun about this episode.

Speaker 1 (43:13):
We learned Jonathan's names.

Speaker 2 (43:14):
Yeah, as you're saying, I cheered, I cheered, I cheered.
There is so much fun stuff about this episode. You know,
obviously it's incredibly sinister, and especially to compare it to
our real life world high Welcome to twenty twenty five,
But damn it, there is so much fun here and
even oh my god, I love Cordelia being so silly

(43:39):
about Buffy's hair the whole time, Like she keeps making
digs about her hair and Bubby's like, what the hell's
wrong with my hair? It's like we're like sisters, but
with really different hair.

Speaker 1 (43:49):
I love that. Yeah, She's like, and don't and don't
do that thing with your hair? What thing? Don't interrupt
to me?

Speaker 2 (43:55):
Yeah, it don't work silk or chaffon or velvet, because
those are I Cordelia is so funny in this And
even when Buffy has just slayed this this monster and
she's like, thank god, you saved us, you saved us,
and she hugs Angel and then she's crying. She's like,

(44:16):
just hate you guys.

Speaker 1 (44:18):
That that's my number two laugh moment of the episode.
Her sobbing, thinking that she's about to like, thank everyone,
tell me how much she loves that.

Speaker 3 (44:26):
Yeah, her so saying, I just hate you guys. The
weirdest things always happen when you're around. Immediately grabs Tom's
shirt and goes.

Speaker 1 (44:36):
And you you're going to jail for the next fifteen
thousand years, drops his shirt, immediately exits The roses like that.

Speaker 2 (44:45):
It's so funny too, because I love it. She's like
blaming everyone else. She's like, it's because you were here,
Bobby that this all went down where it's like, Cordelia,
this was your party. Cordelia, are you she's here, Yes,
you begged her to come. She's happier alone. I just
love her.

Speaker 1 (45:04):
Oh my gosh, no, I love specifically. Each of those
things are very funny by themselves, but them happening in
such quick sequence and then her immediately exiting is hysterical.

Speaker 2 (45:16):
Oh my god, she is a comedic genius. I love
Willow being the one to finally call out because that's
the thing. Is like Giles and like Angel totally could
have come to the conclusion themselves that they're like being
assholes to Buffy. But having a girl be the one

(45:38):
to call it out, I think is important and I
think it's beautiful and Willow having the empathy for everyone
involved to be like, come on, you guys, like treat
her like a person. Like She's not just love a slayer.
She's not just like you're plaything toy Angel. She is
like a human being with thoughts and feelings, and you
guys are both being total assholes to her. I loved
that part so much, Oh my god, I can't even

(45:59):
express And then I also love for the moment where
Angel he I love when it cuts to Angel and
he's in vamp face and he goes and with Buffy.
I love that bar so much. I swooned.

Speaker 1 (46:12):
Sorry sorry. I love Willow yelling and DAWs at Angel,
especially for it to come from Willow, who is the
maakest of the meek. Yeah, really lovely, I mean, you're
gonna live forever you don't have time for a cup
of coffee.

Speaker 2 (46:31):
Love her, love her.

Speaker 4 (46:32):
Hello.

Speaker 1 (46:33):
And obviously Buffy learns a lesson in this episode about
you know, careful at a college party, careful about these
boys you don't know what their intentions are. I was
very glad that Giles also learns a lesson that it
wasn't just like yes, well, Buffy, what did I tell you?

Speaker 2 (46:54):
That?

Speaker 1 (46:54):
He says like, Okay, tonight was pretty rough. That feels
like a lesson in and of itself. So I'll drop that.
And so I would like to apologize for not respecting
that you are a human being who has a life
outside of slaying. And I recognize that if I had
done that, maybe you would have been more honest with
me about your whereabouts so that I wouldn't assume you

(47:15):
were with your mom.

Speaker 2 (47:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:16):
I really liked that.

Speaker 2 (47:18):
He too, And I mean he's the least disgusting boy
of them all, but he still is like not treating
Buffy like a person this episode, Like yeah, every boy
in this group, even the least disgusting of all of them,
like they still are like forgetting that Buffy, forgetting that
Buffy has and like every woman has autonomy and is

(47:44):
capable and you can't trust a man even the least
disgusting of them.

Speaker 1 (47:50):
He Hey, do you have other big thoughts about reptile
boy about disgusting Boy.

Speaker 2 (47:56):
I do have to shout out shout out to Buffering
the Vampire Slayer. One of my favorite songs they ever
did was before this episode. I love it very much.
It is heaps of fun and I, if you haven't
listened about you did very good, so fun. So I
love that and I kept, uh, I'm trying very hard

(48:17):
not to copy what they say in their songs, but
I mean, I love that song and shouted to Buffering,
you really you really killed it with that one. And
I just, I really, I just think this episode is
so is so fun and it's also so scary and
it's I don't know, it's just really it's really successful
at what it does, so and I just really appreciate it.

(48:40):
I agree.

Speaker 1 (48:41):
I think the Makida costume is one of the gorgeous
on the show.

Speaker 2 (48:46):
His mouth, I was really impressed with, Oh my god,
a gorgeous.

Speaker 1 (48:50):
They must have had that actor like rigged up like
fly system. It's so yeah, there's a right show where
he kind of lunges forward, and I was like, okay,
so he must be attached to a fly system. And
then the tail is just like a super long stuffed
skirt basically, and they are just taking that rigging and

(49:11):
shooting him forward. It was very very impressive.

Speaker 2 (49:14):
It was I really I thought it was awesome.

Speaker 1 (49:17):
It's a great look. I also there's a moment when
they're at the frat party before things go south, and
there's those two just like generic asshole frttie guys, the
ones who keep torturing Xander. And at the beginning of
that party, one of them is looking around. He's got
a drink in his hand, and he goes bookoo babes,

(49:38):
and that.

Speaker 2 (49:39):
May be like, I also love after they like they
bring one guy into their frat and then they go all.

Speaker 4 (49:46):
Right, it's brusky time, yes, and like them all in
these row roads with a sword at his chest making
him swear allegiance to Makida for the rest of his life.

Speaker 1 (49:59):
And then he does the he does the swear all right,
you kid, I love that, which also that is how
you frats. No exactly, we have psychologically and emotionally tortured
this person. We're gonna time.

Speaker 2 (50:18):
Yeah, oh my god, they that guy also one of
the other ones, one of the ones who's torturing Xander.
He says, but he calls he's like, man, with all that,
like that wig and those those boobs, you're still but ugly.
And I was like, ship, I gotta say but ugly more.

Speaker 1 (50:40):
But it's really it's something about how like plosive, the
and the butt ugly.

Speaker 2 (50:50):
Yeah, there's there's if someone calling butt ugly.

Speaker 1 (50:59):
It's really my whole life.

Speaker 2 (51:03):
Like shit in my because like someone could call me
ugly and I'd be like whatever they got bad taste exactly.
Someone called me but.

Speaker 1 (51:18):
I guess gotta make some changes.

Speaker 2 (51:20):
Seriously, like, oh my god, is it my hair? What's wrong?
Give me some notes? I beg I can't be but
ugly because it's a cut above ugly. Yes, this is
so playground. Yeah, I love it. God, I gotta say
that more.

Speaker 1 (51:37):
I read like a whole think piece one time.

Speaker 2 (51:41):
M hmm.

Speaker 1 (51:42):
On the episode of Community with the ass Crack Bandit
about how because the ass Crack Bandit is referenced a
few times before in that episode, just like the criminal
large shown as the ass Crack Bandit will be brought
to justice and then in the specific episode about the
ass Crack Bandit instead of even though his is the
ass Crack Bandit, they always say like he put a

(52:03):
coin in my butt. He's obsessed with butts, like they
always say butt. Yeah, I'm not kidding a think piece
about how butt is a funnier word than.

Speaker 2 (52:14):
Ass, oh easy, Like that.

Speaker 1 (52:18):
Is why they did that in that episode. Is all
of those like for Bretta to say, well, we know
that he either hates asses or is obsessed with them
is way less funny. Then we know that he either
hates butts or is obsessed with them, Like something about
butt is hsteric.

Speaker 2 (52:36):
H I love that so much. It's so true. It's
so true because like how how I genuinely I feel
like and maybe it's just like the level of like
adult I'm at, Like I'm like not saying butt.

Speaker 1 (52:49):
Very often, and I'm not saying it enough exactly.

Speaker 2 (52:52):
I'm not saying it enough. I'm like asking like, how
does my ass look in these pants? I'm not saying,
like how does my butt look in these pants? I'm
saying I'm genuinely saying ass very frequently, which like no,
like reject modernity and embrace tradition, tell me, my Alex
but just kidding, no, but genuinely made me laugh.

Speaker 1 (53:16):
Okay, I don't. I'm looking at my notes. I think
that's all of my notes.

Speaker 2 (53:21):
Okay, great, do.

Speaker 1 (53:22):
You have any other like a final thought?

Speaker 2 (53:26):
A final thought?

Speaker 1 (53:27):
Oh? Really? So sorry? No, please, he is the patriarchy.
I'm interrupting you. Xander is dressed like Xander from State
Farm when he goes to the frat party.

Speaker 2 (53:37):
Oh my god, he looks ridiculous. It's just so funny.
I genuinely he's like trying to get in there to
get to Buffy, but like not to rescue her, to
like insert himself into whatever she's got going on, because
in his mind, she's like kissing boys and he needs
to be there to stop her from kissing other boys
because she should be kissing him.

Speaker 1 (53:58):
I think that's true. Yeah, he also does have a
general distrust of fraternity brothers. He does like and I'm
not one to pretend that Xanders like to pretend that
Xander is altruistic in his desires to protect Buffy. He
constantly any man who has interested her, He's like, that
man is evil and it should be me. But he's

(54:20):
very mistrusting of the fraternity constantly. Yeah, I think it is.
I think you are correct, And then I think also
he's like.

Speaker 2 (54:26):
And also yes, and yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:29):
I think fraternities are a little shady.

Speaker 2 (54:33):
Oh my god, I love this episode. My final thoughts
on this episode or what was your final thought?

Speaker 1 (54:39):
Did you say it was Xander from State.

Speaker 2 (54:40):
Farmander from State Farm? No, seriously, red pole, red polo,
khaki pants. You can't wear that shit anymore.

Speaker 1 (54:46):
Going to like a rager party dressed in like business
casual but I mean, I guess that's in ties and
button of shirts. Oh my god, I think that does
happen at fraternities. Crazy.

Speaker 2 (55:00):
No, I think it's madness. Yeah, like, let me wear
my my dress up pants and going up going out top,
you know what I mean? Anyway, whatever, Here are my
final thoughts in this episode. One, fuck the patriarchy for real,
for real. Systemically the patriarchy is so pervasive and awful,

(55:22):
and I urge people to examine what that looks like
in their lives for real. But I love I love
this episode so much. I think it's just very fun.
I think it's very scary. It is if you like,
have a friend that you want to show Buffy too,
I think this is a good one because it's a
great allegory for something that is incredibly real, and also,

(55:46):
uh yeah, it's fun.

Speaker 1 (55:48):
I like it.

Speaker 2 (55:49):
I like it a lot. And when you kiss me,
I want to die.

Speaker 1 (55:51):
Many kiss me? I want to die?

Speaker 2 (55:54):
Worst part?

Speaker 1 (55:55):
Best time? All right, Lena, what's your worst part of
this episode? Mm?

Speaker 2 (56:06):
It's my worst part. I genuinely love this episode so much.
I struggle to find a worst part. Do you have
one off the dome?

Speaker 1 (56:15):
I do, I wrote them all down. My worst part
is this is verbatim when I have written down Angel's
victim playing annoying bitch ass period.

Speaker 2 (56:25):
Actually I agree, I hate to take yours from you,
but hey, it's it's reparations for the patriarchy. Actually, no,
what I do think that is my worst part too,
Like Angel, especially when he's like, ugh, this is a
you want to go to coffee with me? This is
exactly how I thought it would go. You're being a

(56:46):
classic little girl like it made me so mad, And
obviously I hate when the fratros do it as well.
But like this guy who like says that he likes
her like also treating her like shit and also treating
her like these frat ros are treating her. You're on
my fucking list. I genuinely, I angel you're making me mad.

(57:07):
You're making me mad. What's your best part?

Speaker 1 (57:10):
Best part is that this is what I wrote down,
That Tom is king asshole.

Speaker 2 (57:15):
I just yeah, no, I think that's good.

Speaker 1 (57:16):
I think it's very important that nice is different than good.
Quote you read, yeah, what about you?

Speaker 2 (57:23):
My best part is, oh my god, so much of it,
but a that Buffy is the one who saves the
day even though everyone has like come to help her
like that, she's the one who finished the job. And
be the line. I'm sorry you guys if you hate it,

(57:44):
I would love to hear why but when you kiss me,
I want to die because and like I said, I
literally went off on this for ten minutes. I don't
need to say it again, but this guy is treating
her like shit and and you kiss me, I want
to die. I love that. It really changed me, sincerely.

Speaker 1 (58:04):
Sorry, all right, what's your good hey part? Gayest part?

Speaker 2 (58:11):
What's my gate? I liked that good one? Good one?

Speaker 1 (58:14):
Good one is saying it And I don't know if
I announcy edit enough for people to understand what that was.

Speaker 2 (58:18):
No I thought it was great. I knew exactly what
you meant. What is my gayest part of the episode.
Buffy kicking ass in an LBD in a little black dress.

Speaker 1 (58:28):
Oh, there we go. That's a great one. Wait, very
very good.

Speaker 2 (58:32):
Thank you. She looks sligh to boot.

Speaker 1 (58:35):
I love that when she's kicking ass. Tom tries to
say something like you stop this whatever and ever, and
she goes, you talk too much.

Speaker 5 (58:43):
I love that.

Speaker 2 (58:47):
So good, Buffy Summers. Yeah, that's my gayest part. What's yours?

Speaker 1 (58:51):
When you kiss me? I want to die? That is
like h that. There's so much drama in that. It
is so just like End of.

Speaker 2 (59:00):
The Worlds that ruined my fucking life. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:06):
And then I also, just for fun have the straightest
part of the episode. Oh, okay, I love Xander and drag.

Speaker 2 (59:14):
No exactly, it was not even drag. It was like,
you know when people are like, like, drag queen speak
a macrea of womenhood, maybe you mean, which I don't
agree with, but I but that's that that's what they're
talking about.

Speaker 1 (59:27):
People. But that's the thing is people always talk about
all of these conservatives are like so up in arms
about drag queens and about you know, either their groomers, yeah,
or their perverts, or they're making a mockery of womanhood.
And yet when like a straight male comedian, yeah, puts

(59:48):
on the dress for comedic effect, they eat that shit.

Speaker 2 (59:50):
They love it because they don't see women as people.

Speaker 1 (59:53):
Yeah, and that's why it's my straightest part. They put
Xander in that skirt and wig to make fun of
these subservient species women. And that is why that drag
is the straightest thing I've ever seen in my life.

Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
Easy money, No, seriously, and he looks but clean. But
oh my god, Okay, who died? Who died? Please tell
me everything?

Speaker 1 (01:00:22):
Sadly, these disgusting boys I'll live to see another day.
The only death is Mikita, the reptile boy dumb.

Speaker 2 (01:00:31):
Oh God knows. None of their family's companies.

Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
Are doing well, so no, God bless.

Speaker 2 (01:00:37):
I hope they learned from this. Motherfuckers. Yeah, for real,
disgusting boys, disgusting genuinely. This is like probably what like
maybe the scariest episode to me so far, for a
lot of reasons, like lots of horror movie tactics, but
especially these boys being so disgusting.

Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
Yeah, And it's like when Buffy roofies and then you
see Richard shadow walk for the bed that is for real,
real life.

Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
No genuinely, and then panning down to see that they
already have forty.

Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
Yeah, it's awful. Hey, well that's reptile boy. Everyone. Tune
in next week for Halloween Banger app.

Speaker 2 (01:01:20):
Ready for Halloween. Hello everyone, welcome to your email segment
of the podcast. Oh let's start with will shall we, hi.

Speaker 4 (01:01:32):
En and Lena.

Speaker 1 (01:01:33):
I had never watched Buffy before you guys started this podcast,
but I was really happy you chose it, as I've
been wanting to watch Buffy for a long time, just
never got around to it. Having never seen it before.
I don't know anything about the general consensus about episodes
and listen just hear me out. INCA Mummy Girl was
my favorite episode yet. Obviously I don't enjoy the slurs

(01:01:53):
and the like, but this was the first time I
was properly invested in the plot and I felt some
momentum building. I felt a tone shift from the more
silly episodes of season one to a more dramatic, relationship
focused but still silly tone. Upada's actors performance was so
genuine that I found impata and Xander's relationship very endearing
and real, and you could really empathize with Mpada even

(01:02:16):
though she was technically the villain. This made the stakes
feel very high in the finale. That, combined with subtly
introducing new characters and starting plotlines without resolving them in
the same episode, gave a strong finish filled the suspense.
Also as a transperson, I love the genderfucker you guys
talked about. I felt crazy hearing your episode and that
it's thought of as one of the Buffy's worst episodes,

(01:02:37):
but I guess that just means it's only going to
get better from here, lol, And I do get that
the racism can overshadow the good parts. For me, there
was just some secret sauce in the episode that really
made a click. Thank you for all the work you
do for the podcast. Will He Him from Finland Internall listener.

Speaker 2 (01:02:57):
Well, I love this. I love this. So glad that
you enjoyed the episode, especially from a relationship dynamic and
seeing like Xander have one of the most mature relationships
he's ever had. It's definitely a tone shift and I'm
definitely seeing the good things there and I love that.
I'm so glad that you enjoyed it.

Speaker 1 (01:03:16):
Yeah, I had a very similar experience in that I
had always except that I knew going in that it
was a hated episode, and watching it, I was so surprised,
as I mentioned in the episode, by how much I
liked it. And obviously there's a lot of cultural insensitivity
and there's a lot of racism in that episode and

(01:03:37):
that cannot be ignored, and I think it is important
that people are talking about it. But I do agree
that I am like, we need to be talking about that.
But sometimes I feel like people completely leap prug over
these other parts of the episode that are so compelling
and so interesting and completely overlook them or just like

(01:03:59):
don't even notice that they're there. Sure, so will I
agree that there is there's a secret sauce to parts
of this episode, And I yeah, found in Pata very
heartbreaking and tragic character good.

Speaker 2 (01:04:11):
Yeah, and especially like her actress, my god, really really compelling.
And I mean, yeah, so I'm glad that people resonated
with this episode. That makes me happy. Yeah, it does,
because it's also like, you know, the show, I love
it so much, and there are so many episodes where
I feel that way, where I'm like, people don't like

(01:04:32):
this episode and I'm really seeing something special here? What
am I missing? So? I love to I love to
hear stuff like this. So I'm glad that you enjoyed it.
Will thank you for your message. Let's hear from Joe,
shall we?

Speaker 4 (01:04:45):
So?

Speaker 1 (01:04:46):
Joe said this in because last week we read their
email about Spike's accent and how they thought his accent
was not good and that they felt that it slipped
into Louisiana, a bit that was mentioned last week during
our email segment. Joe has emailed back saying I need
to back up my statement. Exhibit A sent us this clip,
which I will play in a second, and says, listen

(01:05:08):
to how he says there both times, and tell me
that it isn't giving Louisiana, or at least bad Louisiana.
Maybe Benoi Blanc from Knives Out. It's the first line
he says, and so instantly made me realize it wasn't
an English person doing an English accent. Joe also, brighton
we represented last episode interna listener, you were there, very

(01:05:37):
Benoa Blanc.

Speaker 2 (01:05:39):
If every vampire who said he was at the Crucifixtion
was actually.

Speaker 1 (01:05:44):
There and Joe theya. I watched this. I read the
semi and I watched this, and you have a point.
You were they No, he puts such a strong dipthong
in there. They uh that I see where you're coming from.

(01:06:05):
I see where you're coming from. You did that is
compelling evidence. It has been taken into account. The judge
is going over the proceedings as we speak, and we'll
reach a verdict soon. But you do make a strong
case for yourself. I did not clock that, but you
pointing it out, and especially yeah, and especially like you said,
how it is like the third word he says, yeah,

(01:06:28):
And so immediately anything he does after that, no matter
how good you're, like, I already know that you're because
why did you say it like that?

Speaker 2 (01:06:36):
Oh my god?

Speaker 1 (01:06:37):
Were they?

Speaker 2 (01:06:38):
God? That's so funny, and especially to you know, remembering
that he auditioned with like a Southern accent.

Speaker 1 (01:06:45):
It was stuck in his brain.

Speaker 2 (01:06:46):
It's hey, be dying hard.

Speaker 1 (01:06:49):
Yeah, of course, Joe.

Speaker 2 (01:06:51):
Nice to hear from you again. Shout out to Brighton
A next, let's hear from Hannah.

Speaker 1 (01:06:56):
Hello, So I found your podcast when it was first
a glod cast and now it's a podcast. No a
buff cast, and I was stoked to hear that you
were making a Buffy Pod. Because I've watched the show
at least ten times since high school and read some
of the comics. I have noticed that y'all are very
forgiving of Xander, frankly more than anyone I have ever
come across. I was wondering if you have seen this

(01:07:16):
video essay by the Cosmonaut Variety Hour on YouTube, called
the worst TV character of all time? It is not
so surprisingly all about Xander, and I think, regardless of
your opinions on him, it's a hilarious watch. There are spoilers, though,
so I would more so recommend it to someone who
has already seen the show. It's also fifteen minutes long.
This man really hates Xander anyways, So excited for you

(01:07:41):
to get to later seasons. I'm especially excited to hear
you talk about a certain episode that happens in the
midway point of season five. Thanks Hannah from Virginia. Hannah,
I watched this video essay. I think, yeah, like when
we were talking about the pilot, like when we had
just started the Buffy podcas are just watching a bunch

(01:08:01):
of random Buffy videos. And one. You are correct. This
video essay is very entertaining. It's very funny. Also, one
of the reasons that I am so forgiving of Xander
is because I watched this video essay and I was like,
as funny as this is, you are, in my opinion,

(01:08:21):
overlooking a lot of aspects of this character, Like, yes,
you are, you are talking about stuff that is true,
but kind of like I was saying with Will's email,
you are in focusing on the bad parts that are true,
closing a blind eye to a lot of stuff that,
like I think is good. So a lot of me,
personally my dialogue about Xander on this podcast has been

(01:08:41):
incredibly influenced by the video essay The Worst Character.

Speaker 2 (01:08:45):
Oh my god, I watch it. I will literally watch it.
That is so interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:08:51):
Yeah, it is a very funny watch and it makes
a lot of very good points about Xander being the
like where's my hug guy in the friend group, which like,
of course, is not invalid. I have watched, weirdly like
a few video essays on Xander. I don't know, Hannah,
if this is the Cosmonauvariety Hours video or if this

(01:09:15):
is another one that I watched, But there was a
video essay about specifically an episode called the Zeppo that
obviously will get to you as we cover it, and being
like this is the best written, Like Xander is best
written in this episode and why is that? And what
is good about him in this episode that is not

(01:09:36):
as prevalent in other episodes? That was a very interesting watch.
As I said, it might actually be a part of
this video essay, yeah, where I think maybe the person
is like the only time I've liked Xander is this
one episode.

Speaker 2 (01:09:48):
Damn we send all the links to the video essays
you're watching. I want I love of YouTube video essay.

Speaker 1 (01:09:54):
I'm just calling YouTube and I type in Buffy and
then I scroll until there's a title I find interesting. Okay,
love There's a lot of Xander Harris discourse out there.

Speaker 2 (01:10:04):
Well, of course, and you know, I think that that's
interesting about him. I like that some people. I think
a character that people feel very strongly about is I
love that? Yeah, Like a character that everyone feels middle
of the road about, like who cares, but a character
that people either love him or hate him. I'm I'm thrilled.

(01:10:27):
I'm having blast.

Speaker 1 (01:10:28):
Yeah, it is largely hate that I see, Yes, and
it is largely this character reminds me of the guy
who couldn't take a hint that I went to high
school with. Yeah, and the thing is like, I can't
argue with that. Oh, absolutely, I absolutely can't argue with that.
But I am a person that like when I see
a lot of opinions on one side of a piece
of art, then I'm like, well, now I'm gonna be

(01:10:50):
a voice for the other.

Speaker 2 (01:10:52):
But no, but that doesn't sound anything like I've never
heard you do that in my life.

Speaker 1 (01:10:58):
Grazy my anyway, Anyway, I how to.

Speaker 2 (01:11:02):
Check this out? This looks really I don't know that
I have watched this one, but I'm always interested in
stuff like this, So Hannah, thank you for suggesting it,
and thank you for your email. Up next, let's hear
from Ira, shall we.

Speaker 1 (01:11:18):
Hey, y'all, I'm about midway through season seven and I
genuinely still like Xander. I was fully expecting to hate
him at some point, especially after things I've heard in
the immense hate he gets on TikTok, which as Ian
has said feels a bit excessive, but I digress. But
I find myself empathizing with him, even if at times

(01:11:41):
he absolutely puts his foot in his mouth. I think
we often forget that these characters are so young. Even
by season six, they're still in their early twenties, that
frontal lobe is not developed babes, especially for Xander, because
he's a guy and men tend to develop later. Anyway,
He's not in my top three or even top five
characters by any means, but that's not because I dislike him.

(01:12:03):
Buffy just has so many compelling characters, including Xander, and
I just like other characters a little better. I completely
understand the self insert situation of it all, but personally
I don't really think about that when I watch. It
never really crosses my mind, so I just take the
character for what he is in the moment on my screen,
and for the most part, he's a very sad and

(01:12:25):
very compelling character. To me, Ian, the comparison you made
to Finn a few episodes ago was a plus, and
like Finn, I hope y'all can show people that Xander
deserves a little bit of grace too. Similarly to Glee
and other shows, characters are always more interesting when they're flawed,
and Xander is definitely flawed. I can't wait for y'all
to get to episodes like the Zeppo shut Out, Restless

(01:12:49):
and the Potential Way further down the line that are
such interesting Xander character study episodes and demonstrate how vital
he is to the group. Absolutely loving y'all's thoughts in
season two so far, and I'm so excited the upcoming
early release Banger Halloween Much love, Irah, Hello Ween Halloween.

Speaker 2 (01:13:07):
If you want to be a patron, you can listen
to that right now, baby. I agree. I even think
that I am guilty of thinking that these characters are
older than me when in all actuality they're in high
school slash, they're in their early twenties. Like I'm just
thinking that because I was watching this at such a

(01:13:29):
formative age, or you know, I'm feeling like they're my peers,
when in all actuality they're they're very young, Like these
people are growing up, and it is they're growing up
under like pretty intense circumstances as well. So I do
think that, you know, people need grace, and I guess

(01:13:50):
Sandernia as well. But I mean, I love it. I
love to hear that people connect with him, and I
love to hear the opposite end of that as well,
like I said before, I think that a character who's
so polarizing is very interesting to me.

Speaker 1 (01:14:04):
Yeah, I wrote something you said that. You said that
Xander is a very sad and compelling character. I so agree,
and that is like why I try and speak on
his behalf, Like I think that his obsession with Buffy
and how he is annoyed with every man that she

(01:14:26):
talks to and like will never get over the fact
that she rejected him is annoying. Like I do find
it annoying, I do find it grading. I do fail
find the way that he like sexualizes his female friends
constantly to be really gross. But like you said, I
find him to be an incredibly sad character. I was

(01:14:47):
watching an episode the other day. It is you know,
we get a lot of like references and hints as
to like Xander's home life. Yeah, I was watching I
think the only moment in the entire series where we
actually see his home life, and obviously, like I can't
talk about it because yeah, yeah, let spoiler free podcast.
But just like much like Finn, he is a guy

(01:15:13):
who just is in an environment where he is worthless
and he will absolutely never amount to anything, and he
is a massive failure and if he does not laugh first,
everyone else is going to laugh at him. Like he
lives in such fear of like I'm a huge loser
and I'm a clown and everyone's gonna find out that

(01:15:35):
I Am worthless. That he is constantly trying to overcompensate
for that fact, but being like, look at me, I'm cookie,
I'm silly, I'm funny, and I find that to be
very sad and very interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:15:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:15:48):
Yeah, and more thoughts on Scander to come as we
watch this show.

Speaker 2 (01:15:54):
Absolutely, that's the thing is, you know. I also I'm
coming at this, this this rewatch with my own Xander baggage,
so it's hard to I'm genuinely really trying to go
episode by episode with my opinion of him because we
are spoiler free and you know, I can't hold him, uh,

(01:16:18):
I can't hold him accountable for shit he hasn't done yet.

Speaker 1 (01:16:21):
Yeah. And also like the self insert.

Speaker 2 (01:16:24):
Is oh, I mean, well that's madness.

Speaker 1 (01:16:26):
Yeah, and it's the trump card of all trump cards.
Yeah obviously, But like Iras says, when they're watching the show,
they're like not thinking about all that, They're just thinking
of So here's the character's on my screen, and Xander
is very much an annoying teenage boy, and sometimes he
is truly an annoying teenage boy, and the show is like,

(01:16:46):
isn't he charming? But also sometimes he's an annoying teenage
boy because the show is trying to make a point
about how this is annoying behavior and you shouldn't act
like this.

Speaker 2 (01:16:56):
Yes, yeah, oh my god.

Speaker 1 (01:16:59):
And so I also like think that's an important distinction.
Is like, when is Xander actually being an asshole in
the show's letting him get away with which does happen?

Speaker 2 (01:17:07):
Yes, but just because it's on our screen does not
mean that it's condoning his behavior.

Speaker 1 (01:17:12):
Yes, And then what times is Xander being an asshole
and the show is trying to teach both him and
the audience a lesson about why that's asshole behavior?

Speaker 2 (01:17:20):
Yeah? Yeah, honestly, that is very and I feel like
it was like a big thing I struggled with while
watching Glee is I would take things so seriously forgetting
that this show is trying to teach me a lesson,
you know. Yeah, And so I'm trying really hard in
watching Buffy to be like, Okay, well, maybe I don't

(01:17:42):
like that as a human being. But a I'm consuming
a piece of of I'm consuming a story. So what's
the lesson here? What are they trying to tell me?
What am I I'm trying you know? Hey man, Yeah,
hey man. It's easier so than done.

Speaker 1 (01:17:59):
I also to set the record straight right now, which
is I am vocal about Xander because I have to
be contrarian. But don't get it twisted. He's not in
my top five characters either.

Speaker 2 (01:18:12):
You just have contrarian disease.

Speaker 1 (01:18:13):
Yes, I just like, I feel like I have to
talk about it because I see so much negativity about
him that I'm like, I have to speak positively. But like,
if I were to rank the characters of Buffy, he
would be like relatively far down the list.

Speaker 2 (01:18:28):
And also I do also, I mean, I have seen
like a few comments in the past that are like, Okay, well,
don't be too nice about him, because, like you know,
he does he makes some big mistakes, and I.

Speaker 1 (01:18:40):
Think and the show lets him get away with it.

Speaker 2 (01:18:44):
Lets him get away with it. I don't like him.

Speaker 1 (01:18:46):
I don't like him.

Speaker 2 (01:18:47):
If this guy was in my friend group, I don't
know that I would like fuck with him.

Speaker 1 (01:18:51):
And that's why I want to say, right here, right now,
it's just because no one online doesn't like Buffy, you know,
like there's no one that I'm having a debate with
about like Buffy is actually a great character.

Speaker 2 (01:19:02):
No one's like you, mister Giles.

Speaker 1 (01:19:04):
Yeah, No one's like Rupert Giles. He sucks, like we
all know, he's the best, exactly. Well, thank you for
your emails everyone, and you guys are.

Speaker 2 (01:19:14):
All a student, insightful and I love to hear your thoughts.

Speaker 1 (01:19:21):
If you have thoughts on a reptile boy, I'm the
disgusting Boys something to recovering Glika tiba dot com. If
you want to follow us on social media, you can
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and Instagram. If you want to support a podcast, please
rate interview us or turn our Patreon. You'll find bonus episodes.
You'll find I'm Scared extended openings to episodes A and

(01:19:45):
if you're an uppertunity of the Patreon, if you're a
best friend of the podcast, you'll get a special thank you.
Ah and I'm gonna do that now. A. Hi, it's
me from the podcast you're listening to. So I'm trying
to pledge a fraternity, and as part of the hazing process,
the pledges they're making me thank all of our best
friends of the podcast as fast as I possibly can,
so fingers crossed, I get in a big thank you too,

(01:20:08):
Emily Sonya, Aaron, Olivia, Mori's Ida, Jack Kerous, Elizabeth Depress, Bubbles, Eden, Brionna, JP, Tanya, Catherine,
Shannon and Rachel Drew, Christine, Kayleen, Rachel, Alison, Meghan, Audrey, Alexandra, Kylie, Duston,
as A, Jade and Paul, Julia, Vicki, Ki Lee, Jasmine, Will, Janica,
Shalaine Diagnot, Host Kay Reagan, Pee Poopoo, Josette, Joe Lo, Madeline, Alannie,
Elise Blandon, Alice, Paige, Nattia, Nicole Abbey, Christen Sorry, Eileen Mallory, Jymantha, Rebecca, Leila, Ari,

(01:20:31):
Murrissa Taylor, Frankie, Margaret, Justapriina, Emily, Phoebe, Aria, Ava Haley, Emily,
Jacqueline and Elsie, Laslo Ray and the Steph Charlie, Kelsey, Thomas, Tucho, Britney, Kenzi, Michael, Katie,
Elizabeth Freddy. Well, hopefully that was good enough. I hear
they worship a really cool snake demon in this fraternity,
so Friga's crossed. I'm so excited, but seriously big, thank

(01:20:52):
you all over patrons. Your support means a lot and
is truly like the reason we are able to keep
doing this podcast. So thank you. And you did such
a great job with that guy.

Speaker 2 (01:21:02):
You always kill it, you always kill it. Everyone, thank
you so much for being here. I genuinely love you
all very much. I hope you slay day to day. Man. Seriously,
we've got the power and as I promise, and here
is a consential forehead kis if you'd like it. Bye bye,
but only if you want.

Speaker 1 (01:21:19):
It, Yes, consentus key Disgusting boys.

Speaker 2 (01:21:23):
Disgusting boys. Bye everyone, Love.

Speaker 1 (01:21:25):
You, Thank you for listening. Follow us at Recovering Gleek
Underscore podcast. Email us at Recovering Gleek at giba dot com,
join our Patreon, patroon dot com, slash Recovering Gleek, rate
and review.

Speaker 2 (01:21:37):
Us and tell your friends please.

Speaker 1 (01:21:39):
I do remember at my welcome to campus you know whatever,
that's called orientation Fresh orientation. They talk to us a
little bit about Greek life if you were interested, and
the guy the you know like student representative who was
talking to us talked about the fraternity that he joined,
and his big thing was talking about how instrumental that

(01:22:01):
fraternity was in him coming out and how like his
fraternity brothers were the first people he ever came out to,
how they made him feel really safe, how they mad
him feel really supportive. So like, for all the disgusting boys,
there are clean boys out there somewhere that have positive fraternities.

Speaker 2 (01:22:19):
And god knows, we were in like a fraternity of
our own with a theater, Like I mean, that is
a weird, gross, exclusive club even in and of itself.
So what room do we have to talk