April 9, 2025 • 53 mins
This week, poet, author, organizer, and educator Mahogany L. Browne joins us to reflect on our time in COVID lockdown, the impact it had on kids and teenagers, whether community has been strengthened or weakened in the years since, and her new book, A Bird in the Air Means We Can Still Breathe.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Small help from small, small areas, Small So Funky. Welcome
to another episode of Small Doses Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Really excited about our guests today because.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
She's someone that I've known for a really, really, really
long time, and it feels always so special to be
able to bring in people to the space who are
already like in my personal space. Our guest, Mahogany Brown,
is an author, a poet, and a mother and an educator,
and I feel like those things combined make her a
(00:42):
great person to talk about how COVID affected young people
and young people's lives during its height, and doing so
from an artistic point of view versus like a statistical
point of view at the CDC or somebody who may have,
you know, collected data in a nu miracle form. You know,
they say historians tell the facts of the time, but
(01:05):
the poets tell the feelings.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
And so we'll be talking to her today about her book.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
As long as there are birds in the sky, we
can still breathe.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
And this is a book.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
It's a ya novel about young people during the outbreak
of COVID and how it affected their lives. I think
for a lot of us who particularly remember being a
young people, I really enjoyed being a young person, and
especially now that I'm an adult, I'm like, there's things
about being an adult that I really appreciate, Like I
can eat ice cream without having to answer to anybody.
(01:38):
But man, as a young person, I was annoyed at
being smarter than all the adults around me. But I
really took that time and really enjoyed like my nineties
young miss, I really enjoyed going to prom and homecoming,
Like y'all know who follow me my nineties pop culture
existence and experience, like I hold it near and dear
so to have those moments st I think a lot
(02:01):
of us adults, I have to be honest, I think
a lot of US adults really underappreciate how much young
people in America and the United States gave up during
COVID and had to have stripped from them, and like
what that really does to the mind, and how that
does affect how you are shaped. And so I'll be
talking today with Mahogany Brown about that, you know, and
(02:23):
how that affects community and how that should also change,
like how we as adults address and interact with the
young people of that time who are now adults, right
and who were already dealing with active shooter drills. Right,
they're already dealing with Trump as a president post Obama.
(02:45):
So there's real things that we have to address, and
me and Mahogany Brown we're about to address them right
here on small doses. So stick around as we get
into cide effects, how COVID fact young lives. Please welcome
(03:05):
the indubitable, the ever so consistent, the brilliant, the deeply melanated.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
To the point where how.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Old is she? We don't know, We don't know. Ms
Mahogany Brown to the podcast. You know, I know you
as a poet, but that has expanded. You're now a writer.
You're an author, you're writing ya, you're writing novels, you're
(03:32):
writing nonfiction. Let's talk about it because that's what today's about. Yeah,
what is the name of this book? A bird in
the Air means we can still breathe m It is
a why a novel in story, but it focuses on
(03:53):
the young lives right, affected, impacted and forever changed due
to the impact of COVID N nineteen. So it's like
nonfiction tucked into narrative, which is my favorite because when
you're reading nonfiction. It's very didactic like this, but they
(04:13):
say the best way to receive real information is through story.
I remember during COVID we spoke and you said, I'm
going to go for a walk around the block. This
is my first walk in two weeks. I have not
been outside in weeks. And then a week later you say,
you know I got COVID from taking that walk. I did.
(04:35):
I was hot. I was hot for I was like,
what COVID cloud did she walk into on a walk
around the block, Because I was like, she didn't divert
Did you go in up ole eeggar or anything? No,
I didn't go in any store. But what I did
do And mind you, you know that first month of
the Vibrus being in the city, no one knew exactly
(04:57):
what it just knew that when you were around a
lot of populated areas, right, I sat on a bench.
I sat on a bench on Eastern Parkway. And at
that point, you know, we're not even taken into effect,
like some of these benches are houseless. People are taking
refuge here. And I do remember like, oh the specific area,
(05:19):
if you sit in this park, you know folks they were,
you know, camping out. But those people were the most
at risk at that point. They were living in the
element and under like just fogs. It was I remember
the fog in New York City. They was like missed
in certain areas, so it didn't feel when I walked,
I was like, oh, I should probably get in the house.
(05:42):
This is this is weird.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
That's the fog that I just knew was gonna happen.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
If I went to this Elderbard's concert at that time
that I had bought tickets.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
For, and all I pictured was the whole audience going
oh this, and.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
I heard the breath and I'd canceled my ticket and
they did not give me a refund. And then when
I texted El DeBarge and was like, hey, these people
aren't giving me my refund, he was like, yeah, they're
being a really funny style and I was like that's terrible.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
And then he said I need you and I said
excuse me, and he went.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Back to Jess. I remember he said to them, I'm like, okay,
I think El DeBarge just hollered at me and then
he just ghasted. All this love was not waiting for me. Actually,
it went from I needs you to to a bird
in the sky and back to your book. Wow, So, okay,
(06:48):
tell me what this book is about and how it
relates to this COVID affecting young lives, because again, in
true American fashion, people are like, it's all over its
and it's like, no, it's just beginning. Well the book, obviously,
I tried to keep it readily digestible for young people,
(07:09):
but also for us. I wanted to be something that
we're talking about in all spaces. And when we look
at the CDC saying that you know, thirty seven percent
of high school students reported mental health issues before the pandemic,
and then forty four percent it jumped up to forty
four percent felt more sad and hopeless during that last
(07:30):
what twenty one to twenty three. So I wanted to
write thinking about them, but not show boating and doing
the finger pointing and what you need to do because
obviously they're the adult constituents didn't do it right. That's
how we got into the position where we're asking young
people to forego homecoming, forego walking across the stage, all
(07:51):
because we need to make sure that you know your
grandparents are okay, that the babies are okay. Im you know, compromise.
People are okay. We just didn't think about everything that
they were losing to assure that the rest of us
can continue living. And while it was an economic impact,
there was a lot of learning loss. There was a
lot of education loss. You have more addiction. And I
(08:11):
didn't want to pretend like we had it all figured out.
So there is no answer because we are still living
in it. We are still surviving the pandemic and the
fallout from it. Talk to me about the field work
you did, the field study till it put this together.
The field study included those conversations with young people. I
was doing a lot of online classes talking to young people.
(08:36):
At one point, you know, Zoom became the only classroom space.
So just being in that situation where I could ask them,
you know, how you feeling? What are you doing right now?
And fortnite being the only thing that they were like,
maybe light up about right night fortnite being And I
get it. I get it to that point where you
don't have a thing to look forward to anymore, or
(08:58):
why would I be excited for that? Told me that
I don't have a graduation. You don't you know, there
may not be social security, like we're taking away the
future that they thought they were preparing for. And I
allowed those times when I was with other students to
be a student, just to be a student and a
recorder of their lives. So this feels like an interview,
(09:25):
but it's really a conversation. Yeah, So just letting you
know because I feel like I'm interviewing you, but we
really can't talk. We can talking back and forth. Gay, Yeah,
because for you, I have what were you doing during
that time? Like there was a major shift, I think
a seismic shift in your art practice anyway, but also
(09:47):
just in how you showed up online? Can you talk
about what that was COVID? Yeah, I was regressing to
being a young person. I was living in my mother's house.
Pot up, pot up, Man. That was rough. I was
in my mother's house for three months. I have not
lived with my mother since I was eighteen. Wow, Like
(10:10):
I've never went back like I left, and I've never
spent more than a month in my mother's house since
i was.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Eighteen, So to go back and not be able to leave.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Also, my mother regressed, so it was just two sixteen
year olds. But I've always been responsible, So I've always
been the responsible sixteen year old. So you were sibling, okay, yes, yes,
well I would like leave and lie about it, like
she would like sneak out the house. One time, I
came out into the garage and my mom was walking
(10:43):
in from the car with her purse, and I was like,
where did you go? And she lied straight to my face,
I didn't go anywhere. I was like, why do you
have your purse? Oh, I was just getting it from
the car.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
And then I walked over the car.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Put my hand on the car, and I was like,
the cars, the hot not you checking your mond because
it was like, why are you lying to me? Like
if you feel like you just need to go for
a drive, just say I need to go for a drive, right,
But yeah, I mean, yeah, I was just I was
in the house.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
And also, you know, that was also during.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
The uh Black Lives Matter uprisings, and because I was
in Florida, I couldn't be like in the streets because
nobody was really protesting in Florida. So that was also
a time that I feel like we got to really
just see America for what it really is as completely
anti community. And I think that was I don't know
that it was jarring for me, but it was really
(11:37):
necessary to continue to illuminate it. And we're seeing another
version of that right now, like just the unwillingness to
wear masks and things like that, right right, Like it's
odd that that's the argument, Like that's an argument, bro,
that's the argument, and like for kids, right like weaponizing
their kids, like I'm willing to put my child in
danger because i feel some type of way about government.
(11:59):
At the same time, those are the same people that
have voted in the government that is becoming.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
A fascist state.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
So like, whatever you thought you were doing in fighting
against that government, you have now elected a government that
will absolutely fight you, imprison you, beat you next time
they want you to wear a mask, or when they
don't want you to wear a mask, damn it, because
that's the country we're currently in. They want to fight
you to not wear masks. Do you remember that uprising
(12:28):
around entitled I'll just call them weirdos, but I just
remember the moment where people are like, you have a
mask on and you're making me uncomfortable. And there were
videos that started to pop ups like this is a trend, literally,
so it was a while before I think they even
still might make this announcement on flights when they're like,
you can wear a mask, if you choose not to,
(12:49):
that is fine as well. Please you're not harassed. And
if what was wearing a mask unreal? Unreal? You want
to keep yourself safe? How dare you? It's also just
the weaponizing of fear. I wonder, in like the conversations
you were having with the young people, what were the
fears that they were discussing that were affecting them around
this COVID stuff. Most of the fear, I think it
(13:11):
leaned into the fact that they were becoming caregivers of elders.
They were becoming caregivers of their siblings in a way
that some may have experienced before, but it was far
more you know, do or die literally do or die,
like it's on you. And that's what shows up in
(13:33):
these in the book is the story of the you know,
the children taking care of each other after they lose
their parent, or the young person who stops going to
school because their grandmother has dementia and they want to
take care of her.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
And going to school meaning like not going online.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
So once the online went back to in person, right,
because we did have that shit for a moment where
it was like you can go to school two days
a week. I tried to like bring in all of
those different aspects of the pandemic those different moments because
the cycle was very interesting and I was teaching, but
I wasn't going into schools by that time. I said no, no,
(14:13):
it's okay, I can just do a via zoom because
why would I want to get sick. Why would I
want other people to get sick? At that point, we
didn't have a vaccine right, so until the vaccine was
in effect, I was really trying to stay home and
keep it cute. Truly, I truly was. People were definitely
asking me why I wasn't on tour. I'm like, on, actually,
(14:38):
I was supposed to do a show in Houston. This
is in like August of twenty twenty. I canceled the
show because this was also when Texas was like we're
not going to put nothing in place, like no man
like nothing, and that same venue a year later penalized me.
(15:02):
They were like, we don't want you to come here
because you canceled on us last time.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Oh, I'm like, you mean Dree the Pint. This is
why I like eventually have to.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
I had to get out of stand up because it's
just too much tomfoolery. Wait, but it's a we have facts.
The pandemic happened.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
It was we lost it. I didn't make it.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
We lost a lot of people, and we, like comics,
were getting sick. Like Dial Hugley, who I can't stand.
I think is a completely paid democratic.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Shill and a coon.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
He fainted on stage from COVID Oh wow, because he
was like, no, I'm gonna still be I'm a still
which also I should have known then that he was
a selfish pos but he was like, no, I'm gonna
still do my shows. I was like, I'm not gonna
do my shows because it's not gonna kill me not
to do my shows, but it might kill you, right right,
(15:50):
Like I care about you enough to not put you
in harm's way. I don't know when that became the
barometer for being good. I thought that that was just
being human. I truly did. I truly thought it was
being human. And I get it. You know, get money,
money over bitches, all that's great, money's fun. But if
(16:10):
you can't be alive with your community, if all you
have is money and there is no world left, then
what does it serve? It's just money. There's more things
to get than money. And I'm saying this as a
person who has absolutely struggled and by no means am
I acting like my bills being paid. Oh. People love
(16:31):
to tell me like you're rich. I'm like, no, no,
But see the difference. I think the difference between you
and folks who are completely, you know, just capitalistic minded,
is that you recognize that the money, right, the wealth
is actually in the community. Yes, we get more and
(16:52):
further riches by just being in community, by bartering our
skill set, buying, upholding our moral compass, by igniting change,
we get further. Now, I mean, that does feel like
a really beautiful Sunday school testimony, But the truth is
the panthers did it right, the mothers that have taught
(17:16):
other mothers how the midwife did it Like it's been
happening for eons. It's not just now that we're like,
you know, let's probably try to do something different. Yeah,
this is not some new fangled like, hey, I was
thinking just just seer me out. I've got this hair
bringed idea. But I think it could just work. Like
(17:37):
we're not going off of no facts, no examples, Yeah,
which I think is actually interesting in the conversation around
kids and community. How do you feel like community that
kids may have had, the youth may have had prior
to COVID got shifted or distorted or severed or strengthened
during that time. Yeah, I think a couple of things happen. Right,
(18:02):
I've witnessed because I am artistic director of Urban Word.
It is a youth literacy program using poetry to support
young people's efforts not just in literacy but also being
civic engaged humans, and it founded the Youth Poet Laureate programs.
So all the young poets that you see opening up
(18:23):
for an inauguration that has come through this specific got it,
nonprofit organization.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
So I'm assuming Amanda Gorman came through this.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Amanda Gorman came through YPL, which is a leg of
Urban Word, Yes, got it. So what I've noticed is
that they have language. Oh, they got a grasp of
language that I didn't even have. I still may not have.
It takes me time to you know, gussie up, Like,
can I see that right here? Yeah? I think I
(18:52):
can say that right here? Like poetic you know, just
lets me get away with some things. But they have it.
They're like this, have language. They're able to discern the
most nuanced discussion and really find the emotional hardwire. I
don't think I had that capacity at sixteen. I think
that's what they have now because they have so much
(19:14):
access to information online and it only compounded during the pandemic.
But I do see more anxiety young people not even
being able to like conflict resolute because it's different to
conflict resolute in person resolve, Thank you, conflict resolve, but yes,
(19:35):
conflict resolution. I did like conflict resolute though resolution, but yes,
they don't have that was like conversation but like for
a few leveled up because then a few we're gonna
do what we came to do and the right truth true? True?
So is that what you mean in terms of community,
Like because they weren't physically in those spaces at that time,
they kind of didn't get to do the exercise of
(19:57):
exercise that muscle. That's right. I mean, that's things that
we just knew how to do, Like, oh, something happened,
it was really weird. Is it going to be awkward
next week? And then you learn how to work through
the awkwardness, you know, during recess, you don't got that
no more. You just turn off your computer and you
go off and you mind your business in another chat
room maybe, But now we don't have the way that like,
(20:18):
how do I work that out so that I don't
just think everybody hates me? Nobody will care if I'm gone?
And that's it dissolves so fast where we don't even
have the capacity in our bodies anymore to know that
it will get better, Like, no, it ain't gotta be
like this. So the mental health, the anxiety, all that
(20:38):
is at an all time high. And the capacity to
understand how you're feeling, the way to get into those words.
They have that on like this fingers on the pulse
when it comes to language.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
But what about community.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
I love what you're talking about. I gotta say, I
thought community was killing it. And then the BLM, watching
the protests, watching the mutual aid work. We were putting
together food baskets for folks during the pandemic, for young
people will come out, grab a bag, go take it
to somebody, so it was possible. I don't know what happened.
(21:18):
Can I say I don't know what happened because I
see it now being very individualized, and there are some
folks who are about it that like, nah, you're not
gonna take my trands, friend, I'm not going to let
you stand in front of this Asian person and belittle them.
Like there's people who's still doing that work, but it's
few and far between. Do we feel that COVID impacted
(21:39):
that or do we feel like it's more so something
else because in my just theoretically, I'm like, I mean,
the energy during COVID was very much larger than life,
coming from like the top down right. Politically, it was
very much every man for themselves. Yeah, so that was
like the overall culture, like that fog that you were
(22:00):
talking about that was in New York. Like I feel
like that was just kind of you were more so
radical for being like like that's what I mean before,
like when I was talking about not doing shows, like
it was like radical to actually be thinking in a
community sense.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
And so I wonder with the kids, did that sentiment.
I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
I just feel like community is so much at this
point like a thing that I've always known, but that
is ending up needing to be taught and I wonder
if COVID impacted its ability to be taught, since that's.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Something that you were really trying to also bring to
their life.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
So you're asking me what happened to the community, Well,
I'm asking if community was either strengthened or weekend during
this time for them. I think it depends on who
you ask. I think the community of writers may happen strengthened,
but I think the community that the writers serve, right,
I think that there's a disconnect. I just think there's
a disconnect and who we serve and how we serve.
(22:57):
You have some writers who are out here who going
to do that thing, and then you have some folks
who are like, you don't speak for me, and it's
far more like loud speaking against against that artist's body.
And I wonder if it's because of the politics that
are coming attached with this pandemic. We do have to
remember that the pandemic was politicized, and the politicization of
(23:18):
the pandemic separated so many of us into sectors that
you can say, oh, I don't even rock with this
personal more because they don't wear a mask, not knowing,
not knowing why they don't like maybe they got covixel,
maybe their masks broke, who knows in that moment, But
we are willing to cancel folks on site, and I
(23:39):
feel like that has taken away from the community. What
were the ages of the young folks that you were
in community with during this time that you were teaching
like the range, I think more consistently I was talking
with high schoolers more consistently. I was talking with high schoolers.
But because I did have a book that came out
called Woke, A Young Poet's Call to Justice, which was
(24:01):
banned in lovely State of Florida. Congratulations, yo, I know
it's supposed to be And me and you talked about
this offline. At first, I was like, oh, yeah, that
means books are selling. But then I get like death
(24:22):
threats and people are mean to you, and I'm like, wait,
you're up set because I'm teaching young people about compassion, yes,
and empathy yes, and allyship Yes, that's odd. It's given
black mirrors. They're literally mad because those are all the
things that undermine capitalism.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Yeah, and white supremacy that part.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
So they're like, if you keep teaching these kids to
care about other people, are we going to kill them
the way. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Yeah, but welcome to the death threats crew.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Girl, it's over here. It's scary only because I don't
play fair, like I know you from Bery, I don't
play fair.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
So I was like, you want to hear talking tos?
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Okay, you want to see somebody in the banker to alright, okay? Yeah. Facts.
I think I was doing these workshops with high schoolers,
but then I was doing the Woke and the Woke
Baby talks with grade school Tell me about that. I
love them. They are the most righteous individuals we've ever met. Yes,
(25:36):
because they're they speak at pot they speak at plaines.
What you need to know about young people is they
don't really got time for the foolishness. And I think
that that's what keeps me on point. Right, just asking
a young person when I was reading Woke Baby, which
predated Woke a Young Poet's Call, and I asked the
young people in Coral Gables, right, that's what that part
(25:58):
of Florida is. At that bookstore, I said, what does
woke mean? And this is before the attack on what
was happening? And a young girl like maybe three or
four raised her hand and she said it means to
keep your eyes open and see everything. Yes, And I
was like, exact though. That's it. So for anyone listening,
by the way, if you want to understand me, I
(26:20):
never like, my brain never got corrupted past eight years old.
That's where I exist. So as an adult, that's annoying.
When you're eight, it's cute, it's sweet, and it's like wow, man,
they just say it like it is can't see the
darnedest things. But when you were grown up, it becomes man,
that bitch I was running on the mouse and she's
(26:41):
are you filter? Yeah? Where you fail to add, where
you feel to add, like, that's the autism. Like whenever
you deal with autistic people, you're like, there's a youthfulness
about them, like you never evolved past that, and that
pisses people off. How do we return to that?
Speaker 2 (26:57):
We empower it.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
I feel like, if anything, the pandemic reset us, right,
it reset us in a lot of different ways and
how we choose to be community members. We are choosing now.
It's not just the road that's already been set up
for us. We are recreating roads. And I see you
doing that every time you challenge yourself to get off certain.
(27:18):
You know, social media platforms as easy as it is,
because you are already such a vital voice and vibrant voice,
you still choose to say, I know, this easiest way
to get in touch with you is accessible and free,
but it's not working for this freedom, this liberation work.
So tell me about your process and like maybe a
(27:39):
sweet spot along with the bittersweet. Well, I would say,
like when you were like, you know, how do we
reset that? I think we empower it, right, Like, so
you have a countenance about you that is, and I
think it's because you work with kids so much, like
you just have a built in I think it may
look like patients, but it's actually curiosity.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
And I think it's also because you're a writer too.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
It's like when you're a writing creative, it's all content,
it's all so there's a certain curiosity to like tell
me more, let me understand this better. Yeah, And that
I think allows us to be more efficient as community members, right,
because we're not always coming from a place of defense,
you know, we're not always coming up from a place
(28:24):
of adversary. So like I feel like if I came
to you and I was like, you know, mo, I
just didn't really feel good about this situation that happened
with us, Like, I don't feel like you would start
off with, well, let me tell you how I feel.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
I feel like you would start off with, Okay, what
were you upset about?
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Now?
Speaker 2 (28:39):
Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what I feel.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Like, that's how I moved. I actually apologize for making
someone feel.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
That way unintentional, but if you felt it, you felt it.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Yeah, And I care about you as a person, as
a human, as my friend, So I'm sorry you felt
that way. I'm sorry that happened. I'm sorry that that
is you know how I impacted you? Not at all
my intention. How do we move forward? Let's unpack? Yes? Yeah, yeah, yeah,
So like we don't do that. I don't come from
a household that does that. I don't come from a family,
I don't come from a community that does that. So
(29:12):
as a generational curse breaker, I've had to really learn
how to do that and then remove myself from spaces
that don't do that with me, and then also don't
even honor when I do that with those spaces. And
I think just being in practice of that and empowering
that in my own spaces is making me better about
being able to like spread that messaging. So like even
(29:33):
on my Patreon, you get one chance, you get one
chance to act out of pocket and one chance to
playing your face, one chance that Tony Yayomi. That's it,
and then you gotta go, you gotta go, Like what
are we doing here? Yeah, I think that the youth
(29:58):
we really concerns me about COVID. I do feel as
part of my responsibility now is that I believe that
COVID caused a severe electromagnetic shift on this planet by
so many souls leaving at one time. And I don't
know if that's like a higher power purpose. I don't
know the metaphysics of that, but I do know the
reality though, is that like we lost so many spirits
(30:21):
at one time, and we also lost our wisdom, the elders,
Like we lost them all at one time, and so
it was like there was a thrusting of people into
a place of knowledge that they weren't ready to be
at yet. But many of us weren't there yet because
there was still leaning on like the same way that
we're still leaning on the civil rights movement. And I'm like,
(30:43):
I'm tired of hearing about it, not because I don't
respect it, but because it's being used as a crutch. Now,
it's being used as a crutch. I feel to like
not have to define, well, what is this movement that
we're in right now? They did that, we're here now?
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Who are you in this time?
Speaker 1 (30:56):
And like a lot of people won't let people be
civil rights leaders this time because they keep saying, but
you're not Martin Luther King y'all didn't even like him
when he was here. Yeah, So I'm trying to just
be very deliberate and intentional in how that shows up,
knowing that it affects how young people are also shaping themselves,
(31:20):
because I know that I was very heavily shaped by
the people that I saw in pop culture and on TV.
Like I didn't have a strong family, like in terms
of like a present family, So I was being shaped
by like, oh, Whitney Houston is giving you on Natural
with a tumberic. No, it wasn't tuberc.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
It was like a saffron colored background on this album cover.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
I like this, look I want to dance with somebody. Yeah,
I too want to dance with something I too, right,
Like I was looking at like, oh, these women on
a different world. They are going to school, like they're
managing to college. Yes, I am going to that.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
I am going through college.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
These children on the Cosby Show are being expected to
be responsible. So like I gained a lot of my
reflection of how I formed myself from how I was
seeing others. And so I know that, so me knowing
that I do my best. I remember when Nelly, who's
(32:22):
an idiot, said I don't know why y'all expect me
to be a role model.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
I'm just a rapper. And he said that a very
very long time ago.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Yeah, he told you what to look forward to, which
is cool. Like I really don't look at these musical
artists anymore, and be like, tell me what you think
about the political landscape. I'm good.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
It's a clickbait at this point.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Yeah, I'm good. I will say I got caught one
time doing that. I got caught off guard. It was
interviewing Yin Yang twins, okay, and they were just being annoying,
and so I just was like, well, let me be
annoying back were they were whispering too much? This was
before whisper, this was when they were ha ha, And
(33:08):
like they kept doing it while I was talking to
the point where I had to like please, and it's
d Ray and kin so Kine is a ha and
Kane over there like so. Then, just to be an asshole,
I was like, so, what do you think about the
president saying that we're not going to go do space
exploration anymore? And Kane was like ha, and d Ray
(33:33):
cut off his mic and said, well, you know, I
really do think that at this point that is money.
And I was like, and he was like, so you
didn't think I was gonna know the answer to that.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
I said, you're right, because.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
You don't present yourself and somebody who wants to have
those conversations this is that's what you play yourself because
you was judging a book by his cover and I
was like the book though, and you just so yeah.
But I look at that time during COVID and I
think about if I was a young person during this time,
how I would have been shaped differently. And I feel
(34:07):
like one of the number one things that would have
happened for me is I'm an extroverted introvert. Like I
can be extroverted in career, but like my natural state
is introversion, Like I'm in the house with the cats
and the dog. We're having a blast. Yeah okay, and
you have about one and a half hour of company
time and you're like, had I feel you? Actually?
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Yea half?
Speaker 1 (34:32):
You gotta leave now.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
Listen what was at the house?
Speaker 1 (34:38):
Yeah, never seen a social battery shut down so wicked,
I say, oh, no, she's she's tired, like like it
was given newborn nap time. It's crazy if I didn't
even realize it was happening. We came inside and I
sat down on the couch and before I knew it,
I was reclined yep.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
And you were like, I'm gonna have I'm gonna go now.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
This is good.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
That happened the other day with my homegirl.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
I'm also that person you never have to say so, uh,
you gotta never I'm a tourist. Maybe I probably it
took me a lot to come out the house that day.
All right, so I'm clear on reading body language. You
lay down, it's time for me to go. My girl
went through this with me the other day.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
She was here and she was like, all right, it's.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Time to go. And I was like, okay, you said,
no arguments here. But we had a great time we
had a grand all time.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
No, I mean I feel like that.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
I don't know that I would have evolved into this
person if I had gone through COVID, it may have
existed differently.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
Maybe I would have been a writer first, you know.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
But like as a performer, I mean, much of the
reason I ended up, you know, really performing was because
I was in theater at school. And even though I
had been on TV, it was being in theater that
made me the performer. So when I think about the kids,
I'm like, I just can't imagine what that is. So
tell me, Like the kids in your story, what would
you say, are like the biggest impacts for them? Well,
(36:18):
let me see, so it one. Everybody is interconnected. That's
why it's a novel. In stories. You'll read one story
and the only person's voice that returns are the chorus,
which are two Caribbean Gales that see it all. One
is from Trinidad, one is from Jamaica. We got some
(36:39):
patchwine here, proper Patchwain. I was gonna say that was
literally the next question. Yes, yes, Propa Patwa.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
Did you research this?
Speaker 1 (36:49):
Yes, yes, I actually worked with so one. I live
in East Flatbush, right, So that went outside. I'm just
you know, talk to my neighbors, right, But also I
had an actual patchwa writer. Make sure that I'm speaking
it correctly, because those search engines they lie to you, right,
they will to you. They will lie.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
It's like getting a Chinese letter tattoo.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
It's a lie. You're like, why did you get that?
It's ordering food? Yes, that is chicken rice. So it
starts with a young person being the eldest and everything
falling on them, and you don't really know that he's
speaking in parable. He writes this story and you're reading
(37:33):
it and you're like, oh, we're in like a whole
new world. It reads like a fantasy book and it's
really just him trying to write out his feelings. And
then he gets snitched on by his teacher who sends
the story to the mom. Damn. And then the mom
is like, what's going on. It's saying you're tripping out here,
and then he has to just you know, speak it plain. Well.
(37:53):
I wrote this story because I think the youngest sibling
that father was addicted to drugs went missing during the pandemic,
and he held the weight of it on his chest.
Moms didn't know why the dad left, but now he
has to come clean. So you have those interconnected stories,
intergenerational issues. You have a young person who's changed their
(38:17):
pronoun and is staying at home to make sure that
their grandmother who's suffering from dementia doesn't fall sicker. You
have a person who is locked up, young person who
first went through the foster care system and is now
locked up in rikers and what that is like. As
I had a young person my cousin was locked up
(38:40):
during the pandemic, and like checking in and what that
was like. I wanted to be mindful of keeping his
story in the forefront because they try to lie to
us and just say that everything was fine, and we
know better, we know what it was like out here,
you know, So what do you think it's like when
these people are holding the doors locked, completely locked? Then
I got words social workers and some journalists are having
(39:03):
a discussion, and of course I have to make room
for the bodega, the modega guy. So if you go
get your sandwich at the bodega with your chop cheese,
look like all of that made New York still run
during the pandemic. I'll never ever forget those moments of
going to that one bodega and they knew exactly what
you needed and you didn't have to go inside and
put yourself in harms way to get your food. Yeah.
(39:25):
Is there a passage that you've been reading when you
are doing any types of promotions for this book? There is?
And it's more so because this is something that I've
got into, like not an argument, but like we had
a serious conversation about how many adult voices I had
in a ya book. And one of the voices is
(39:48):
like an og who is locked up in wrikers and
he's a political prisoner. Quite honestly, they got him on
some Occupy Wall Street, but he was there when the
young man is put in solitary confinement. And I've been
reading his speech whenever I read a passage. Well, for
all of our Patreon subscribers, if you would like to
(40:09):
hear the author herself, Miss Mahogany L. Brown read this
moving passage from her book, A bird in the Air
means we can still Breathe Come on and join us
because we're going to head on over to the seal
squad right now. So what do you want people who
(40:33):
have children or who interact with youth to take from
this book, because when you said something you said in
the beginning of this was you said, you know, this
is not just written for ya, like, it's written so
that we because we need to be reading it as well.
And then in the spiece that you just read from
(40:53):
the text, it's a world for all of us. Yeah,
so what do you want those people? I want to
and then I'll ask what we want young people to
get from it. I think we need to have some
more patience for our young people. Absolutely, we need to
be offering more gratitude because we have experienced a different
(41:13):
kind of living that allowed us to have a robust life,
even if we choose to live in you know, cubicles
at whatever office space, and we I think we forget.
We forget what it was like to be kids. We
forgot what it was like, and so how can we
remember when we have property taxes when we I'm tired
(41:35):
of being an adult, by the way, go ahead, sorry,
same ze. Adulting is hard. I'm so over this. I'm like,
adulting is hard. Y'all got it, Truly, adulting is hard.
But even the fact that you're able to tap into,
like the youthfulness of the way you retain information that right,
there is a part of the equalization. Right, you are
(41:56):
equalizing the playing field for you to be able to
listen to learn. And I think that we are just
asking kids to kids, asking young people go to work,
just listen. Like forty four percent of high school students
I think in twenty twenty one had more signs of depression, anxiety,
suicidal thoughts. So how you just want somebody to go
(42:18):
work when over half of them in their classmates don't
want to be here no more. And also work is terrible,
and work is terrible. You're not actually putting together a
workforce for critical thinkers. You're putting together a workforce of
folks that just get in line and don't ask questions. Skilled.
So I would say gratitude and space, gratitude to young
(42:40):
people and space for them to get it wrong. I'm
not saying space to like fuck it up. I'm saying
space to get it wrong. Yeah, like it's not enabling. Yeah,
you have a chance to get it wrong. Not I'm
going to stand over you and banish you for every mistake.
But this is how you do better. Right, And then
for the young people, it is the thank you letter.
It is in apology, It isn't I see what you
(43:02):
gave up, because more times than not, that's where the
anger comes from. Yeah, in the invisibility of like, you
don't even see what I did. You didn't even say nothing,
you don't even care, So why not do it in
the first place? Right? Yeah? And you're right. You deserve
to be acknowledged, You deserve to be seen. All of
(43:22):
us do. Yeah, I can't wait to see your stand up.
I can't either, because I'm not doing stand up for
a while. No, come on, you're doing something soon. Yes,
I am doing what would the ancestors say? Which has
you know, comedy in it, but like as a stand up,
like living as a stand up comedian, it's it's not fulfilling. Why.
(43:45):
I mean, I've been watching a lot of documentaries around
the comedic brain, so I do understand. Yeah, yeah I have.
I will. Like the last three I watched so so
good but also devastating. So I'm just wondering, like, why
for you? Well, comedy, the comedy breen comes from darkness. Yes,
And I actually used to think that that was everyone
(44:06):
but me. I used to be like, oh my god,
but you know mine comes from light. No, don't you
desire to give light? But it does come from the
shadows of you, right, and like working out those shadows.
And so for me it's been kind of like the
more that I've worked out my shadows, I just am like,
(44:28):
I don't like that's space here this, Yeah, that space
doesn't call to me anymore interesting. I want to be
a light bringer and being kind of like acerbic and
self deprecating and you know, even satirical. It's like when
(44:48):
that's like the all the time, every time it ends
up being counterintuitive to like literally living in like peace
and light and love like it is, well, it's like
a purgatory. It's like a purgatory. I wouldn't call it
necessarily antithesis, but it's a holding space. It's a stasis
because you do need the analysis, and the analysis is
what allows you if you're you know, using it. The
(45:10):
analysis is what allows you to not be living in
the darkness of it. But it doesn't let you move
past it. You stay stuck there. So once I kept moving,
it was like, oh, I need to take this humor
and combine it with like other elements that don't end
up working in the stand up space. So I can
balance it out and make it more harmony. So it's
(45:31):
literally kind of like being in an orchestra and I
like perfected the trumpet over here, and now I'm bringing
the trumpet back to my orchestra, so you know, because
you know me, I've had poetry there for a while,
so like that was the piano in the orchestra, you know.
And then when it comes to like lecture, I used
to speak in school, so that's always been there, and
then I had to work this muscle and learn this instrument,
(45:51):
and so now it's there, and.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
Then I have my characters.
Speaker 1 (45:54):
So it's like these four elements kind of combined, like
the power Rangers like Voltron Go Go power Rangers combine Voltron. Yeah,
so that kind of reminds me of why Mary Jay
said she was like not singing High Life for a while.
There's just a moment where you're like, I need to
get out of yeah, the energy that made this possible
(46:16):
to exist. Like, yes, I'm happy that you can get
free knowing that you're not alone, but it is now
entangled me to where I can't free myself from it
if I keep sitting in it. Also, like the spaces themselves,
like whether it's the music business or like comedy, like
these people are just the monetary spaces are not. I mean,
you're always fighting for your bread. You're dealing with managers
(46:39):
that are not good at managing. And at the end
of the day, once, and we talked about this earlier,
once I realized like, oh, wealth is not my goal.
Well then that's these people's goal and what are you doing? Yeah,
I mean I had a manager who was like, Amanda,
doesn't get any easier. And I was like, woh, doesn't
get any easier.
Speaker 2 (46:56):
He was like no, because you know you have to
keep going.
Speaker 1 (47:00):
We couldn't even have a meeting without him, like on
the phone, on the phone, on the phone, and I
was like, I don't want this life. Yeah, where's my piece?
This is actually not the life I want. I want
to do the opposite. So that's when I was like, oh,
it's not to simplify, like figure it out.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
So but I am my book.
Speaker 1 (47:16):
Actually this morning I got clear on the vision for
how I'm gonna I'm going to do a read ath
on ooh. So I'm going to do a live stream
where I read the book from front to back, but
every chapter is going to be presented slightly differently, So
I want to have like it in a space that
has like a couch, a chair at a desk, et cetera,
et cetera. I'm still developing this, but I'm essentially reading
(47:40):
the book out loud to people in positions where people
may be reading the books themselves. So like I might
be sitting in a chair getting my hair locked while
I'm reading a chapter. And then like I might be
lying on my couch with the lights dim while I'm
reading a chapter. I might have my girls at the
house they are also reading a chapter, and you know,
(48:00):
wine because this is like a book club vibe. But ultimately,
I'm reading the book out loud and this will also
serve as the recording for my audiobook Wow love it.
And there'll be an audience. Yes, there'll be an audience.
So the audience can change because I'll stop down after
each chapter so people can come in, leave, whatever. But
it'll be interactive in that way. So you know, theater, honey, theater, theater,
(48:27):
can't wait, can't wait? Yes, the last If people have
young people that want to get involved in the work
that you do, how can they find you. I'm at
(48:47):
Lincoln Center as the inaugural poet in Residence, and I'm
putting together free performing and writing experiences there. I am
the ad the artistic director at Urban Word still and
those workshops they happen throughout the city, every borough and
they are free as well. Just look up urbanword dot
(49:08):
org and I think that's it. Like you can find
me online mobrown dot com and mob r owne and
everywhere that I am. I just put it up there.
I make sure that it's up there. I'm trying to
figure out how to skate on over from Meta. The
way Amanda did that was an excellent dismount. When I tried,
I was like, I'm off the tweets. I'm off the tweets.
(49:30):
You know, I'm on b Sky. But that Meta is
a It's a mighty loockhold. It's a mighty lockhold. Yo.
I was really stuck.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
No, it's tough, and Google's even harder.
Speaker 1 (49:41):
You're gonna have to do a little a workshop. This
is how you get it back. Alternative to this is this. Yeah,
I mean, I gotta tell you I haven't got it back,
Like it's just that you decide.
Speaker 2 (49:55):
I gotta let it go. Because I was also addicted yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:58):
I mean, if I'm honest with myself, right, there's also
an addiction I'm kicking. Yeah. Yeah, So it's like you
could take all the drugs, or you could at least
just take one, you know.
Speaker 2 (50:07):
So that's like that's where of decrease.
Speaker 1 (50:09):
So now I'm over on YouTube, which is essentially Google,
and if I'm honest, I would love to be able
to disengage go Google. But then also like, how do
I get off of Google?
Speaker 2 (50:17):
I got Gmail, I got Google Suite, I got Google
for the.
Speaker 1 (50:22):
YouTube's right, right?
Speaker 2 (50:24):
My company, my company, I got Google Maps.
Speaker 1 (50:29):
I will say that I haven't even been able to
fully disengage from Meta because it is still Instagram is
still the most concentrated place for folks who are sharing
information and videos, and as I'm producing views from Amandoland,
I still have to go there to source because there
isn't really an easy discoverability of sourcing on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (50:52):
And I'm completely off.
Speaker 1 (50:54):
Of TikTok, like it's just not even in existence, right,
So I mean, if I can figure out how to
get Tumblr to be easy, I might.
Speaker 2 (51:01):
Just go over there and sources from it.
Speaker 1 (51:02):
Oo you said tumble, That's what I said. But somebody
who They said, Tumbler came back strong. It's still happening.
Speaker 2 (51:09):
I thought it was over, and they said, baby, it's
back and better than ever. The keyds the youth, which
brings us to the mind.
Speaker 1 (51:14):
How I feel like tumblo probably came back while COVID
was affecting the lives of youth, young lives. I'm gonna
go look. I still kept my Tumblr page. I just
sain't been on it. I was a fan for a while,
so just like I've been a fan of yours for
a while. Thank you so much for joining us, and
thank you for always being committed to a community, particularly
(51:37):
the youth, and just pouring into their young minds but
most importantly their young lives. Thank you, thanks for having
me and Yo. I met you as a young person.
It's just been an honor to like watch you grow
up and be the loud version of that young person
and not really loud, because you were the same. I
was like, I'm the same, Yeah, you really were. You
(51:59):
were like speaking for the people, and I tell people
all the time, I laughed there like you hear people
who don't know you say a thing and you're like,
I don't think you know who you're talking about, because
as a young person who was in college, Amanda was
one of two people, one of two people who came
(52:20):
to talk to my high school kids and did not
ask for money. And I was in a community of
Hella poets who all talked about giving back to the people,
do it for the youth, blah blah blah blah blah.
And when it was time to do it, improve it,
it was Amanda Seals and Jive Poetic and that was it.
Blew my mind. The only other person is the one
(52:41):
that you actually have a whole life with. There you go,
there you go, two people. That was it. I never
forget it. That's horrendous. By the way, I was like, Oh,
nobody can say anything to me at all about you
on no day. You literally show up and you show
out and you have done it since the day we met.
So hats talk to you, absolute you. I love you.
(53:03):
That's my mean thank you for having me.
Small help from small, small areas, Small So Funky. Welcome
to another episode of Small Doses Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Really excited about our guests today because.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
She's someone that I've known for a really, really, really
long time, and it feels always so special to be
able to bring in people to the space who are
already like in my personal space. Our guest, Mahogany Brown,
is an author, a poet, and a mother and an educator,
and I feel like those things combined make her a
(00:42):
great person to talk about how COVID affected young people
and young people's lives during its height, and doing so
from an artistic point of view versus like a statistical
point of view at the CDC or somebody who may have,
you know, collected data in a nu miracle form. You know,
they say historians tell the facts of the time, but
(01:05):
the poets tell the feelings.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
And so we'll be talking to her today about her book.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
As long as there are birds in the sky, we
can still breathe.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
And this is a book.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
It's a ya novel about young people during the outbreak
of COVID and how it affected their lives. I think
for a lot of us who particularly remember being a
young people, I really enjoyed being a young person, and
especially now that I'm an adult, I'm like, there's things
about being an adult that I really appreciate, Like I
can eat ice cream without having to answer to anybody.
(01:38):
But man, as a young person, I was annoyed at
being smarter than all the adults around me. But I
really took that time and really enjoyed like my nineties
young miss, I really enjoyed going to prom and homecoming,
Like y'all know who follow me my nineties pop culture
existence and experience, like I hold it near and dear
so to have those moments st I think a lot
(02:01):
of us adults, I have to be honest, I think
a lot of US adults really underappreciate how much young
people in America and the United States gave up during
COVID and had to have stripped from them, and like
what that really does to the mind, and how that
does affect how you are shaped. And so I'll be
talking today with Mahogany Brown about that, you know, and
(02:23):
how that affects community and how that should also change,
like how we as adults address and interact with the
young people of that time who are now adults, right
and who were already dealing with active shooter drills. Right,
they're already dealing with Trump as a president post Obama.
(02:45):
So there's real things that we have to address, and
me and Mahogany Brown we're about to address them right
here on small doses. So stick around as we get
into cide effects, how COVID fact young lives. Please welcome
(03:05):
the indubitable, the ever so consistent, the brilliant, the deeply melanated.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
To the point where how.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Old is she? We don't know, We don't know. Ms
Mahogany Brown to the podcast. You know, I know you
as a poet, but that has expanded. You're now a writer.
You're an author, you're writing ya, you're writing novels, you're
(03:32):
writing nonfiction. Let's talk about it because that's what today's about. Yeah,
what is the name of this book? A bird in
the Air means we can still breathe m It is
a why a novel in story, but it focuses on
(03:53):
the young lives right, affected, impacted and forever changed due
to the impact of COVID N nineteen. So it's like
nonfiction tucked into narrative, which is my favorite because when
you're reading nonfiction. It's very didactic like this, but they
(04:13):
say the best way to receive real information is through story.
I remember during COVID we spoke and you said, I'm
going to go for a walk around the block. This
is my first walk in two weeks. I have not
been outside in weeks. And then a week later you say,
you know I got COVID from taking that walk. I did.
(04:35):
I was hot. I was hot for I was like,
what COVID cloud did she walk into on a walk
around the block, Because I was like, she didn't divert
Did you go in up ole eeggar or anything? No,
I didn't go in any store. But what I did
do And mind you, you know that first month of
the Vibrus being in the city, no one knew exactly
(04:57):
what it just knew that when you were around a
lot of populated areas, right, I sat on a bench.
I sat on a bench on Eastern Parkway. And at
that point, you know, we're not even taken into effect,
like some of these benches are houseless. People are taking
refuge here. And I do remember like, oh the specific area,
(05:19):
if you sit in this park, you know folks they were,
you know, camping out. But those people were the most
at risk at that point. They were living in the
element and under like just fogs. It was I remember
the fog in New York City. They was like missed
in certain areas, so it didn't feel when I walked,
I was like, oh, I should probably get in the house.
(05:42):
This is this is weird.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
That's the fog that I just knew was gonna happen.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
If I went to this Elderbard's concert at that time
that I had bought tickets.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
For, and all I pictured was the whole audience going
oh this, and.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
I heard the breath and I'd canceled my ticket and
they did not give me a refund. And then when
I texted El DeBarge and was like, hey, these people
aren't giving me my refund, he was like, yeah, they're
being a really funny style and I was like that's terrible.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
And then he said I need you and I said
excuse me, and he went.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Back to Jess. I remember he said to them, I'm like, okay,
I think El DeBarge just hollered at me and then
he just ghasted. All this love was not waiting for me. Actually,
it went from I needs you to to a bird
in the sky and back to your book. Wow, So, okay,
(06:48):
tell me what this book is about and how it
relates to this COVID affecting young lives, because again, in
true American fashion, people are like, it's all over its
and it's like, no, it's just beginning. Well the book, obviously,
I tried to keep it readily digestible for young people,
(07:09):
but also for us. I wanted to be something that
we're talking about in all spaces. And when we look
at the CDC saying that you know, thirty seven percent
of high school students reported mental health issues before the pandemic,
and then forty four percent it jumped up to forty
four percent felt more sad and hopeless during that last
(07:30):
what twenty one to twenty three. So I wanted to
write thinking about them, but not show boating and doing
the finger pointing and what you need to do because
obviously they're the adult constituents didn't do it right. That's
how we got into the position where we're asking young
people to forego homecoming, forego walking across the stage, all
(07:51):
because we need to make sure that you know your
grandparents are okay, that the babies are okay. Im you know, compromise.
People are okay. We just didn't think about everything that
they were losing to assure that the rest of us
can continue living. And while it was an economic impact,
there was a lot of learning loss. There was a
lot of education loss. You have more addiction. And I
(08:11):
didn't want to pretend like we had it all figured out.
So there is no answer because we are still living
in it. We are still surviving the pandemic and the
fallout from it. Talk to me about the field work
you did, the field study till it put this together.
The field study included those conversations with young people. I
was doing a lot of online classes talking to young people.
(08:36):
At one point, you know, Zoom became the only classroom space.
So just being in that situation where I could ask them,
you know, how you feeling? What are you doing right now?
And fortnite being the only thing that they were like,
maybe light up about right night fortnite being And I
get it. I get it to that point where you
don't have a thing to look forward to anymore, or
(08:58):
why would I be excited for that? Told me that
I don't have a graduation. You don't you know, there
may not be social security, like we're taking away the
future that they thought they were preparing for. And I
allowed those times when I was with other students to
be a student, just to be a student and a
recorder of their lives. So this feels like an interview,
(09:25):
but it's really a conversation. Yeah, So just letting you
know because I feel like I'm interviewing you, but we
really can't talk. We can talking back and forth. Gay, Yeah,
because for you, I have what were you doing during
that time? Like there was a major shift, I think
a seismic shift in your art practice anyway, but also
(09:47):
just in how you showed up online? Can you talk
about what that was COVID? Yeah, I was regressing to
being a young person. I was living in my mother's house.
Pot up, pot up, Man. That was rough. I was
in my mother's house for three months. I have not
lived with my mother since I was eighteen. Wow, Like
(10:10):
I've never went back like I left, and I've never
spent more than a month in my mother's house since
i was.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Eighteen, So to go back and not be able to leave.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Also, my mother regressed, so it was just two sixteen
year olds. But I've always been responsible, So I've always
been the responsible sixteen year old. So you were sibling, okay, yes, yes,
well I would like leave and lie about it, like
she would like sneak out the house. One time, I
came out into the garage and my mom was walking
(10:43):
in from the car with her purse, and I was like,
where did you go? And she lied straight to my face,
I didn't go anywhere. I was like, why do you
have your purse? Oh, I was just getting it from
the car.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
And then I walked over the car.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Put my hand on the car, and I was like,
the cars, the hot not you checking your mond because
it was like, why are you lying to me? Like
if you feel like you just need to go for
a drive, just say I need to go for a drive, right,
But yeah, I mean, yeah, I was just I was
in the house.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
And also, you know, that was also during.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
The uh Black Lives Matter uprisings, and because I was
in Florida, I couldn't be like in the streets because
nobody was really protesting in Florida. So that was also
a time that I feel like we got to really
just see America for what it really is as completely
anti community. And I think that was I don't know
that it was jarring for me, but it was really
(11:37):
necessary to continue to illuminate it. And we're seeing another
version of that right now, like just the unwillingness to
wear masks and things like that, right right, Like it's
odd that that's the argument, Like that's an argument, bro,
that's the argument, and like for kids, right like weaponizing
their kids, like I'm willing to put my child in
danger because i feel some type of way about government.
(11:59):
At the same time, those are the same people that
have voted in the government that is becoming.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
A fascist state.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
So like, whatever you thought you were doing in fighting
against that government, you have now elected a government that
will absolutely fight you, imprison you, beat you next time
they want you to wear a mask, or when they
don't want you to wear a mask, damn it, because
that's the country we're currently in. They want to fight
you to not wear masks. Do you remember that uprising
(12:28):
around entitled I'll just call them weirdos, but I just
remember the moment where people are like, you have a
mask on and you're making me uncomfortable. And there were
videos that started to pop ups like this is a trend, literally,
so it was a while before I think they even
still might make this announcement on flights when they're like,
you can wear a mask, if you choose not to,
(12:49):
that is fine as well. Please you're not harassed. And
if what was wearing a mask unreal? Unreal? You want
to keep yourself safe? How dare you? It's also just
the weaponizing of fear. I wonder, in like the conversations
you were having with the young people, what were the
fears that they were discussing that were affecting them around
this COVID stuff. Most of the fear, I think it
(13:11):
leaned into the fact that they were becoming caregivers of elders.
They were becoming caregivers of their siblings in a way
that some may have experienced before, but it was far
more you know, do or die literally do or die,
like it's on you. And that's what shows up in
(13:33):
these in the book is the story of the you know,
the children taking care of each other after they lose
their parent, or the young person who stops going to
school because their grandmother has dementia and they want to
take care of her.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
And going to school meaning like not going online.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
So once the online went back to in person, right,
because we did have that shit for a moment where
it was like you can go to school two days
a week. I tried to like bring in all of
those different aspects of the pandemic those different moments because
the cycle was very interesting and I was teaching, but
I wasn't going into schools by that time. I said no, no,
(14:13):
it's okay, I can just do a via zoom because
why would I want to get sick. Why would I
want other people to get sick? At that point, we
didn't have a vaccine right, so until the vaccine was
in effect, I was really trying to stay home and
keep it cute. Truly, I truly was. People were definitely
asking me why I wasn't on tour. I'm like, on, actually,
(14:38):
I was supposed to do a show in Houston. This
is in like August of twenty twenty. I canceled the
show because this was also when Texas was like we're
not going to put nothing in place, like no man
like nothing, and that same venue a year later penalized me.
(15:02):
They were like, we don't want you to come here
because you canceled on us last time.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Oh, I'm like, you mean Dree the Pint. This is
why I like eventually have to.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
I had to get out of stand up because it's
just too much tomfoolery. Wait, but it's a we have facts.
The pandemic happened.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
It was we lost it. I didn't make it.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
We lost a lot of people, and we, like comics,
were getting sick. Like Dial Hugley, who I can't stand.
I think is a completely paid democratic.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Shill and a coon.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
He fainted on stage from COVID Oh wow, because he
was like, no, I'm gonna still be I'm a still
which also I should have known then that he was
a selfish pos but he was like, no, I'm gonna
still do my shows. I was like, I'm not gonna
do my shows because it's not gonna kill me not
to do my shows, but it might kill you, right right,
(15:50):
Like I care about you enough to not put you
in harm's way. I don't know when that became the
barometer for being good. I thought that that was just
being human. I truly did. I truly thought it was
being human. And I get it. You know, get money,
money over bitches, all that's great, money's fun. But if
(16:10):
you can't be alive with your community, if all you
have is money and there is no world left, then
what does it serve? It's just money. There's more things
to get than money. And I'm saying this as a
person who has absolutely struggled and by no means am
I acting like my bills being paid. Oh. People love
(16:31):
to tell me like you're rich. I'm like, no, no,
But see the difference. I think the difference between you
and folks who are completely, you know, just capitalistic minded,
is that you recognize that the money, right, the wealth
is actually in the community. Yes, we get more and
(16:52):
further riches by just being in community, by bartering our
skill set, buying, upholding our moral compass, by igniting change,
we get further. Now, I mean, that does feel like
a really beautiful Sunday school testimony, But the truth is
the panthers did it right, the mothers that have taught
(17:16):
other mothers how the midwife did it Like it's been
happening for eons. It's not just now that we're like,
you know, let's probably try to do something different. Yeah,
this is not some new fangled like, hey, I was
thinking just just seer me out. I've got this hair
bringed idea. But I think it could just work. Like
(17:37):
we're not going off of no facts, no examples, Yeah,
which I think is actually interesting in the conversation around
kids and community. How do you feel like community that
kids may have had, the youth may have had prior
to COVID got shifted or distorted or severed or strengthened
during that time. Yeah, I think a couple of things happen. Right,
(18:02):
I've witnessed because I am artistic director of Urban Word.
It is a youth literacy program using poetry to support
young people's efforts not just in literacy but also being
civic engaged humans, and it founded the Youth Poet Laureate programs.
So all the young poets that you see opening up
(18:23):
for an inauguration that has come through this specific got it,
nonprofit organization.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
So I'm assuming Amanda Gorman came through this.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Amanda Gorman came through YPL, which is a leg of
Urban Word, Yes, got it. So what I've noticed is
that they have language. Oh, they got a grasp of
language that I didn't even have. I still may not have.
It takes me time to you know, gussie up, Like,
can I see that right here? Yeah? I think I
(18:52):
can say that right here? Like poetic you know, just
lets me get away with some things. But they have it.
They're like this, have language. They're able to discern the
most nuanced discussion and really find the emotional hardwire. I
don't think I had that capacity at sixteen. I think
that's what they have now because they have so much
(19:14):
access to information online and it only compounded during the pandemic.
But I do see more anxiety young people not even
being able to like conflict resolute because it's different to
conflict resolute in person resolve, Thank you, conflict resolve, but yes,
(19:35):
conflict resolution. I did like conflict resolute though resolution, but yes,
they don't have that was like conversation but like for
a few leveled up because then a few we're gonna
do what we came to do and the right truth true? True?
So is that what you mean in terms of community,
Like because they weren't physically in those spaces at that time,
they kind of didn't get to do the exercise of
(19:57):
exercise that muscle. That's right. I mean, that's things that
we just knew how to do, Like, oh, something happened,
it was really weird. Is it going to be awkward
next week? And then you learn how to work through
the awkwardness, you know, during recess, you don't got that
no more. You just turn off your computer and you
go off and you mind your business in another chat
room maybe, But now we don't have the way that like,
(20:18):
how do I work that out so that I don't
just think everybody hates me? Nobody will care if I'm gone?
And that's it dissolves so fast where we don't even
have the capacity in our bodies anymore to know that
it will get better, Like, no, it ain't gotta be
like this. So the mental health, the anxiety, all that
(20:38):
is at an all time high. And the capacity to
understand how you're feeling, the way to get into those words.
They have that on like this fingers on the pulse
when it comes to language.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
But what about community.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
I love what you're talking about. I gotta say, I
thought community was killing it. And then the BLM, watching
the protests, watching the mutual aid work. We were putting
together food baskets for folks during the pandemic, for young
people will come out, grab a bag, go take it
to somebody, so it was possible. I don't know what happened.
(21:18):
Can I say I don't know what happened because I
see it now being very individualized, and there are some
folks who are about it that like, nah, you're not
gonna take my trands, friend, I'm not going to let
you stand in front of this Asian person and belittle them.
Like there's people who's still doing that work, but it's
few and far between. Do we feel that COVID impacted
(21:39):
that or do we feel like it's more so something
else because in my just theoretically, I'm like, I mean,
the energy during COVID was very much larger than life,
coming from like the top down right. Politically, it was
very much every man for themselves. Yeah, so that was
like the overall culture, like that fog that you were
(22:00):
talking about that was in New York. Like I feel
like that was just kind of you were more so
radical for being like like that's what I mean before,
like when I was talking about not doing shows, like
it was like radical to actually be thinking in a
community sense.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
And so I wonder with the kids, did that sentiment.
I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
I just feel like community is so much at this
point like a thing that I've always known, but that
is ending up needing to be taught and I wonder
if COVID impacted its ability to be taught, since that's.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Something that you were really trying to also bring to
their life.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
So you're asking me what happened to the community, Well,
I'm asking if community was either strengthened or weekend during
this time for them. I think it depends on who
you ask. I think the community of writers may happen strengthened,
but I think the community that the writers serve, right,
I think that there's a disconnect. I just think there's
a disconnect and who we serve and how we serve.
(22:57):
You have some writers who are out here who going
to do that thing, and then you have some folks
who are like, you don't speak for me, and it's
far more like loud speaking against against that artist's body.
And I wonder if it's because of the politics that
are coming attached with this pandemic. We do have to
remember that the pandemic was politicized, and the politicization of
(23:18):
the pandemic separated so many of us into sectors that
you can say, oh, I don't even rock with this
personal more because they don't wear a mask, not knowing,
not knowing why they don't like maybe they got covixel,
maybe their masks broke, who knows in that moment, But
we are willing to cancel folks on site, and I
(23:39):
feel like that has taken away from the community. What
were the ages of the young folks that you were
in community with during this time that you were teaching
like the range, I think more consistently I was talking
with high schoolers more consistently. I was talking with high schoolers.
But because I did have a book that came out
called Woke, A Young Poet's Call to Justice, which was
(24:01):
banned in lovely State of Florida. Congratulations, yo, I know
it's supposed to be And me and you talked about
this offline. At first, I was like, oh, yeah, that
means books are selling. But then I get like death
(24:22):
threats and people are mean to you, and I'm like, wait,
you're up set because I'm teaching young people about compassion, yes,
and empathy yes, and allyship Yes, that's odd. It's given
black mirrors. They're literally mad because those are all the
things that undermine capitalism.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Yeah, and white supremacy that part.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
So they're like, if you keep teaching these kids to
care about other people, are we going to kill them
the way. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Yeah, but welcome to the death threats crew.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Girl, it's over here. It's scary only because I don't
play fair, like I know you from Bery, I don't
play fair.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
So I was like, you want to hear talking tos?
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Okay, you want to see somebody in the banker to alright, okay? Yeah. Facts.
I think I was doing these workshops with high schoolers,
but then I was doing the Woke and the Woke
Baby talks with grade school Tell me about that. I
love them. They are the most righteous individuals we've ever met. Yes,
(25:36):
because they're they speak at pot they speak at plaines.
What you need to know about young people is they
don't really got time for the foolishness. And I think
that that's what keeps me on point. Right, just asking
a young person when I was reading Woke Baby, which
predated Woke a Young Poet's Call, and I asked the
young people in Coral Gables, right, that's what that part
(25:58):
of Florida is. At that bookstore, I said, what does
woke mean? And this is before the attack on what
was happening? And a young girl like maybe three or
four raised her hand and she said it means to
keep your eyes open and see everything. Yes, And I
was like, exact though. That's it. So for anyone listening,
by the way, if you want to understand me, I
(26:20):
never like, my brain never got corrupted past eight years old.
That's where I exist. So as an adult, that's annoying.
When you're eight, it's cute, it's sweet, and it's like wow, man,
they just say it like it is can't see the
darnedest things. But when you were grown up, it becomes man,
that bitch I was running on the mouse and she's
(26:41):
are you filter? Yeah? Where you fail to add, where
you feel to add, like, that's the autism. Like whenever
you deal with autistic people, you're like, there's a youthfulness
about them, like you never evolved past that, and that
pisses people off. How do we return to that?
Speaker 2 (26:57):
We empower it.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
I feel like, if anything, the pandemic reset us, right,
it reset us in a lot of different ways and
how we choose to be community members. We are choosing now.
It's not just the road that's already been set up
for us. We are recreating roads. And I see you
doing that every time you challenge yourself to get off certain.
(27:18):
You know, social media platforms as easy as it is,
because you are already such a vital voice and vibrant voice,
you still choose to say, I know, this easiest way
to get in touch with you is accessible and free,
but it's not working for this freedom, this liberation work.
So tell me about your process and like maybe a
(27:39):
sweet spot along with the bittersweet. Well, I would say,
like when you were like, you know, how do we
reset that? I think we empower it, right, Like, so
you have a countenance about you that is, and I
think it's because you work with kids so much, like
you just have a built in I think it may
look like patients, but it's actually curiosity.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
And I think it's also because you're a writer too.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
It's like when you're a writing creative, it's all content,
it's all so there's a certain curiosity to like tell
me more, let me understand this better. Yeah, And that
I think allows us to be more efficient as community members, right,
because we're not always coming from a place of defense,
you know, we're not always coming up from a place
(28:24):
of adversary. So like I feel like if I came
to you and I was like, you know, mo, I
just didn't really feel good about this situation that happened
with us, Like, I don't feel like you would start
off with, well, let me tell you how I feel.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
I feel like you would start off with, Okay, what
were you upset about?
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Now?
Speaker 2 (28:39):
Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what I feel.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Like, that's how I moved. I actually apologize for making
someone feel.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
That way unintentional, but if you felt it, you felt it.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Yeah, And I care about you as a person, as
a human, as my friend, So I'm sorry you felt
that way. I'm sorry that happened. I'm sorry that that
is you know how I impacted you? Not at all
my intention. How do we move forward? Let's unpack? Yes? Yeah, yeah, yeah,
So like we don't do that. I don't come from
a household that does that. I don't come from a family,
I don't come from a community that does that. So
(29:12):
as a generational curse breaker, I've had to really learn
how to do that and then remove myself from spaces
that don't do that with me, and then also don't
even honor when I do that with those spaces. And
I think just being in practice of that and empowering
that in my own spaces is making me better about
being able to like spread that messaging. So like even
(29:33):
on my Patreon, you get one chance, you get one
chance to act out of pocket and one chance to
playing your face, one chance that Tony Yayomi. That's it,
and then you gotta go, you gotta go, Like what
are we doing here? Yeah, I think that the youth
(29:58):
we really concerns me about COVID. I do feel as
part of my responsibility now is that I believe that
COVID caused a severe electromagnetic shift on this planet by
so many souls leaving at one time. And I don't
know if that's like a higher power purpose. I don't
know the metaphysics of that, but I do know the
reality though, is that like we lost so many spirits
(30:21):
at one time, and we also lost our wisdom, the elders,
Like we lost them all at one time, and so
it was like there was a thrusting of people into
a place of knowledge that they weren't ready to be
at yet. But many of us weren't there yet because
there was still leaning on like the same way that
we're still leaning on the civil rights movement. And I'm like,
(30:43):
I'm tired of hearing about it, not because I don't
respect it, but because it's being used as a crutch. Now,
it's being used as a crutch. I feel to like
not have to define, well, what is this movement that
we're in right now? They did that, we're here now?
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Who are you in this time?
Speaker 1 (30:56):
And like a lot of people won't let people be
civil rights leaders this time because they keep saying, but
you're not Martin Luther King y'all didn't even like him
when he was here. Yeah, So I'm trying to just
be very deliberate and intentional in how that shows up,
knowing that it affects how young people are also shaping themselves,
(31:20):
because I know that I was very heavily shaped by
the people that I saw in pop culture and on TV.
Like I didn't have a strong family, like in terms
of like a present family, So I was being shaped
by like, oh, Whitney Houston is giving you on Natural
with a tumberic. No, it wasn't tuberc.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
It was like a saffron colored background on this album cover.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
I like this, look I want to dance with somebody. Yeah,
I too want to dance with something I too, right,
Like I was looking at like, oh, these women on
a different world. They are going to school, like they're
managing to college. Yes, I am going to that.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
I am going through college.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
These children on the Cosby Show are being expected to
be responsible. So like I gained a lot of my
reflection of how I formed myself from how I was
seeing others. And so I know that, so me knowing
that I do my best. I remember when Nelly, who's
(32:22):
an idiot, said I don't know why y'all expect me
to be a role model.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
I'm just a rapper. And he said that a very
very long time ago.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Yeah, he told you what to look forward to, which
is cool. Like I really don't look at these musical
artists anymore, and be like, tell me what you think
about the political landscape. I'm good.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
It's a clickbait at this point.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Yeah, I'm good. I will say I got caught one
time doing that. I got caught off guard. It was
interviewing Yin Yang twins, okay, and they were just being annoying,
and so I just was like, well, let me be
annoying back were they were whispering too much? This was
before whisper, this was when they were ha ha, And
(33:08):
like they kept doing it while I was talking to
the point where I had to like please, and it's
d Ray and kin so Kine is a ha and
Kane over there like so. Then, just to be an asshole,
I was like, so, what do you think about the
president saying that we're not going to go do space
exploration anymore? And Kane was like ha, and d Ray
(33:33):
cut off his mic and said, well, you know, I
really do think that at this point that is money.
And I was like, and he was like, so you
didn't think I was gonna know the answer to that.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
I said, you're right, because.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
You don't present yourself and somebody who wants to have
those conversations this is that's what you play yourself because
you was judging a book by his cover and I
was like the book though, and you just so yeah.
But I look at that time during COVID and I
think about if I was a young person during this time,
how I would have been shaped differently. And I feel
(34:07):
like one of the number one things that would have
happened for me is I'm an extroverted introvert. Like I
can be extroverted in career, but like my natural state
is introversion, Like I'm in the house with the cats
and the dog. We're having a blast. Yeah okay, and
you have about one and a half hour of company
time and you're like, had I feel you? Actually?
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Yea half?
Speaker 1 (34:32):
You gotta leave now.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
Listen what was at the house?
Speaker 1 (34:38):
Yeah, never seen a social battery shut down so wicked,
I say, oh, no, she's she's tired, like like it
was given newborn nap time. It's crazy if I didn't
even realize it was happening. We came inside and I
sat down on the couch and before I knew it,
I was reclined yep.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
And you were like, I'm gonna have I'm gonna go now.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
This is good.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
That happened the other day with my homegirl.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
I'm also that person you never have to say so, uh,
you gotta never I'm a tourist. Maybe I probably it
took me a lot to come out the house that day.
All right, so I'm clear on reading body language. You
lay down, it's time for me to go. My girl
went through this with me the other day.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
She was here and she was like, all right, it's.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Time to go. And I was like, okay, you said,
no arguments here. But we had a great time we
had a grand all time.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
No, I mean I feel like that.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
I don't know that I would have evolved into this
person if I had gone through COVID, it may have
existed differently.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
Maybe I would have been a writer first, you know.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
But like as a performer, I mean, much of the
reason I ended up, you know, really performing was because
I was in theater at school. And even though I
had been on TV, it was being in theater that
made me the performer. So when I think about the kids,
I'm like, I just can't imagine what that is. So
tell me, Like the kids in your story, what would
you say, are like the biggest impacts for them? Well,
(36:18):
let me see, so it one. Everybody is interconnected. That's
why it's a novel. In stories. You'll read one story
and the only person's voice that returns are the chorus,
which are two Caribbean Gales that see it all. One
is from Trinidad, one is from Jamaica. We got some
(36:39):
patchwine here, proper Patchwain. I was gonna say that was
literally the next question. Yes, yes, Propa Patwa.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
Did you research this?
Speaker 1 (36:49):
Yes, yes, I actually worked with so one. I live
in East Flatbush, right, So that went outside. I'm just
you know, talk to my neighbors, right, But also I
had an actual patchwa writer. Make sure that I'm speaking
it correctly, because those search engines they lie to you, right,
they will to you. They will lie.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
It's like getting a Chinese letter tattoo.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
It's a lie. You're like, why did you get that?
It's ordering food? Yes, that is chicken rice. So it
starts with a young person being the eldest and everything
falling on them, and you don't really know that he's
speaking in parable. He writes this story and you're reading
(37:33):
it and you're like, oh, we're in like a whole
new world. It reads like a fantasy book and it's
really just him trying to write out his feelings. And
then he gets snitched on by his teacher who sends
the story to the mom. Damn. And then the mom
is like, what's going on. It's saying you're tripping out here,
and then he has to just you know, speak it plain. Well.
(37:53):
I wrote this story because I think the youngest sibling
that father was addicted to drugs went missing during the pandemic,
and he held the weight of it on his chest.
Moms didn't know why the dad left, but now he
has to come clean. So you have those interconnected stories,
intergenerational issues. You have a young person who's changed their
(38:17):
pronoun and is staying at home to make sure that
their grandmother who's suffering from dementia doesn't fall sicker. You
have a person who is locked up, young person who
first went through the foster care system and is now
locked up in rikers and what that is like. As
I had a young person my cousin was locked up
(38:40):
during the pandemic, and like checking in and what that
was like. I wanted to be mindful of keeping his
story in the forefront because they try to lie to
us and just say that everything was fine, and we
know better, we know what it was like out here,
you know, So what do you think it's like when
these people are holding the doors locked, completely locked? Then
I got words social workers and some journalists are having
(39:03):
a discussion, and of course I have to make room
for the bodega, the modega guy. So if you go
get your sandwich at the bodega with your chop cheese,
look like all of that made New York still run
during the pandemic. I'll never ever forget those moments of
going to that one bodega and they knew exactly what
you needed and you didn't have to go inside and
put yourself in harms way to get your food. Yeah.
(39:25):
Is there a passage that you've been reading when you
are doing any types of promotions for this book? There is?
And it's more so because this is something that I've
got into, like not an argument, but like we had
a serious conversation about how many adult voices I had
in a ya book. And one of the voices is
(39:48):
like an og who is locked up in wrikers and
he's a political prisoner. Quite honestly, they got him on
some Occupy Wall Street, but he was there when the
young man is put in solitary confinement. And I've been
reading his speech whenever I read a passage. Well, for
all of our Patreon subscribers, if you would like to
(40:09):
hear the author herself, Miss Mahogany L. Brown read this
moving passage from her book, A bird in the Air
means we can still Breathe Come on and join us
because we're going to head on over to the seal
squad right now. So what do you want people who
(40:33):
have children or who interact with youth to take from
this book, because when you said something you said in
the beginning of this was you said, you know, this
is not just written for ya, like, it's written so
that we because we need to be reading it as well.
And then in the spiece that you just read from
(40:53):
the text, it's a world for all of us. Yeah,
so what do you want those people? I want to
and then I'll ask what we want young people to
get from it. I think we need to have some
more patience for our young people. Absolutely, we need to
be offering more gratitude because we have experienced a different
(41:13):
kind of living that allowed us to have a robust life,
even if we choose to live in you know, cubicles
at whatever office space, and we I think we forget.
We forget what it was like to be kids. We
forgot what it was like, and so how can we
remember when we have property taxes when we I'm tired
(41:35):
of being an adult, by the way, go ahead, sorry,
same ze. Adulting is hard. I'm so over this. I'm like,
adulting is hard. Y'all got it, Truly, adulting is hard.
But even the fact that you're able to tap into,
like the youthfulness of the way you retain information that right,
there is a part of the equalization. Right, you are
(41:56):
equalizing the playing field for you to be able to
listen to learn. And I think that we are just
asking kids to kids, asking young people go to work,
just listen. Like forty four percent of high school students
I think in twenty twenty one had more signs of depression, anxiety,
suicidal thoughts. So how you just want somebody to go
(42:18):
work when over half of them in their classmates don't
want to be here no more. And also work is terrible,
and work is terrible. You're not actually putting together a
workforce for critical thinkers. You're putting together a workforce of
folks that just get in line and don't ask questions. Skilled.
So I would say gratitude and space, gratitude to young
(42:40):
people and space for them to get it wrong. I'm
not saying space to like fuck it up. I'm saying
space to get it wrong. Yeah, like it's not enabling. Yeah,
you have a chance to get it wrong. Not I'm
going to stand over you and banish you for every mistake.
But this is how you do better. Right, And then
for the young people, it is the thank you letter.
It is in apology, It isn't I see what you
(43:02):
gave up, because more times than not, that's where the
anger comes from. Yeah, in the invisibility of like, you
don't even see what I did. You didn't even say nothing,
you don't even care, So why not do it in
the first place? Right? Yeah? And you're right. You deserve
to be acknowledged, You deserve to be seen. All of
(43:22):
us do. Yeah, I can't wait to see your stand up.
I can't either, because I'm not doing stand up for
a while. No, come on, you're doing something soon. Yes,
I am doing what would the ancestors say? Which has
you know, comedy in it, but like as a stand up,
like living as a stand up comedian, it's it's not fulfilling. Why.
(43:45):
I mean, I've been watching a lot of documentaries around
the comedic brain, so I do understand. Yeah, yeah I have.
I will. Like the last three I watched so so
good but also devastating. So I'm just wondering, like, why
for you? Well, comedy, the comedy breen comes from darkness. Yes,
And I actually used to think that that was everyone
(44:06):
but me. I used to be like, oh my god,
but you know mine comes from light. No, don't you
desire to give light? But it does come from the
shadows of you, right, and like working out those shadows.
And so for me it's been kind of like the
more that I've worked out my shadows, I just am like,
(44:28):
I don't like that's space here this, Yeah, that space
doesn't call to me anymore interesting. I want to be
a light bringer and being kind of like acerbic and
self deprecating and you know, even satirical. It's like when
(44:48):
that's like the all the time, every time it ends
up being counterintuitive to like literally living in like peace
and light and love like it is, well, it's like
a purgatory. It's like a purgatory. I wouldn't call it
necessarily antithesis, but it's a holding space. It's a stasis
because you do need the analysis, and the analysis is
what allows you if you're you know, using it. The
(45:10):
analysis is what allows you to not be living in
the darkness of it. But it doesn't let you move
past it. You stay stuck there. So once I kept moving,
it was like, oh, I need to take this humor
and combine it with like other elements that don't end
up working in the stand up space. So I can
balance it out and make it more harmony. So it's
(45:31):
literally kind of like being in an orchestra and I
like perfected the trumpet over here, and now I'm bringing
the trumpet back to my orchestra, so you know, because
you know me, I've had poetry there for a while,
so like that was the piano in the orchestra, you know.
And then when it comes to like lecture, I used
to speak in school, so that's always been there, and
then I had to work this muscle and learn this instrument,
(45:51):
and so now it's there, and.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
Then I have my characters.
Speaker 1 (45:54):
So it's like these four elements kind of combined, like
the power Rangers like Voltron Go Go power Rangers combine Voltron. Yeah,
so that kind of reminds me of why Mary Jay
said she was like not singing High Life for a while.
There's just a moment where you're like, I need to
get out of yeah, the energy that made this possible
(46:16):
to exist. Like, yes, I'm happy that you can get
free knowing that you're not alone, but it is now
entangled me to where I can't free myself from it
if I keep sitting in it. Also, like the spaces themselves,
like whether it's the music business or like comedy, like
these people are just the monetary spaces are not. I mean,
you're always fighting for your bread. You're dealing with managers
(46:39):
that are not good at managing. And at the end
of the day, once, and we talked about this earlier,
once I realized like, oh, wealth is not my goal.
Well then that's these people's goal and what are you doing? Yeah,
I mean I had a manager who was like, Amanda,
doesn't get any easier. And I was like, woh, doesn't
get any easier.
Speaker 2 (46:56):
He was like no, because you know you have to
keep going.
Speaker 1 (47:00):
We couldn't even have a meeting without him, like on
the phone, on the phone, on the phone, and I
was like, I don't want this life. Yeah, where's my piece?
This is actually not the life I want. I want
to do the opposite. So that's when I was like, oh,
it's not to simplify, like figure it out.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
So but I am my book.
Speaker 1 (47:16):
Actually this morning I got clear on the vision for
how I'm gonna I'm going to do a read ath
on ooh. So I'm going to do a live stream
where I read the book from front to back, but
every chapter is going to be presented slightly differently, So
I want to have like it in a space that
has like a couch, a chair at a desk, et cetera,
et cetera. I'm still developing this, but I'm essentially reading
(47:40):
the book out loud to people in positions where people
may be reading the books themselves. So like I might
be sitting in a chair getting my hair locked while
I'm reading a chapter. And then like I might be
lying on my couch with the lights dim while I'm
reading a chapter. I might have my girls at the
house they are also reading a chapter, and you know,
(48:00):
wine because this is like a book club vibe. But ultimately,
I'm reading the book out loud and this will also
serve as the recording for my audiobook Wow love it.
And there'll be an audience. Yes, there'll be an audience.
So the audience can change because I'll stop down after
each chapter so people can come in, leave, whatever. But
it'll be interactive in that way. So you know, theater, honey, theater, theater,
(48:27):
can't wait, can't wait? Yes, the last If people have
young people that want to get involved in the work
that you do, how can they find you. I'm at
(48:47):
Lincoln Center as the inaugural poet in Residence, and I'm
putting together free performing and writing experiences there. I am
the ad the artistic director at Urban Word still and
those workshops they happen throughout the city, every borough and
they are free as well. Just look up urbanword dot
(49:08):
org and I think that's it. Like you can find
me online mobrown dot com and mob r owne and
everywhere that I am. I just put it up there.
I make sure that it's up there. I'm trying to
figure out how to skate on over from Meta. The
way Amanda did that was an excellent dismount. When I tried,
I was like, I'm off the tweets. I'm off the tweets.
(49:30):
You know, I'm on b Sky. But that Meta is
a It's a mighty loockhold. It's a mighty lockhold. Yo.
I was really stuck.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
No, it's tough, and Google's even harder.
Speaker 1 (49:41):
You're gonna have to do a little a workshop. This
is how you get it back. Alternative to this is this. Yeah,
I mean, I gotta tell you I haven't got it back,
Like it's just that you decide.
Speaker 2 (49:55):
I gotta let it go. Because I was also addicted yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:58):
I mean, if I'm honest with myself, right, there's also
an addiction I'm kicking. Yeah. Yeah, So it's like you
could take all the drugs, or you could at least
just take one, you know.
Speaker 2 (50:07):
So that's like that's where of decrease.
Speaker 1 (50:09):
So now I'm over on YouTube, which is essentially Google,
and if I'm honest, I would love to be able
to disengage go Google. But then also like, how do
I get off of Google?
Speaker 2 (50:17):
I got Gmail, I got Google Suite, I got Google
for the.
Speaker 1 (50:22):
YouTube's right, right?
Speaker 2 (50:24):
My company, my company, I got Google Maps.
Speaker 1 (50:29):
I will say that I haven't even been able to
fully disengage from Meta because it is still Instagram is
still the most concentrated place for folks who are sharing
information and videos, and as I'm producing views from Amandoland,
I still have to go there to source because there
isn't really an easy discoverability of sourcing on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (50:52):
And I'm completely off.
Speaker 1 (50:54):
Of TikTok, like it's just not even in existence, right,
So I mean, if I can figure out how to
get Tumblr to be easy, I might.
Speaker 2 (51:01):
Just go over there and sources from it.
Speaker 1 (51:02):
Oo you said tumble, That's what I said. But somebody
who They said, Tumbler came back strong. It's still happening.
Speaker 2 (51:09):
I thought it was over, and they said, baby, it's
back and better than ever. The keyds the youth, which
brings us to the mind.
Speaker 1 (51:14):
How I feel like tumblo probably came back while COVID
was affecting the lives of youth, young lives. I'm gonna
go look. I still kept my Tumblr page. I just
sain't been on it. I was a fan for a while,
so just like I've been a fan of yours for
a while. Thank you so much for joining us, and
thank you for always being committed to a community, particularly
(51:37):
the youth, and just pouring into their young minds but
most importantly their young lives. Thank you, thanks for having
me and Yo. I met you as a young person.
It's just been an honor to like watch you grow
up and be the loud version of that young person
and not really loud, because you were the same. I
was like, I'm the same, Yeah, you really were. You
(51:59):
were like speaking for the people, and I tell people
all the time, I laughed there like you hear people
who don't know you say a thing and you're like,
I don't think you know who you're talking about, because
as a young person who was in college, Amanda was
one of two people, one of two people who came
(52:20):
to talk to my high school kids and did not
ask for money. And I was in a community of
Hella poets who all talked about giving back to the people,
do it for the youth, blah blah blah blah blah.
And when it was time to do it, improve it,
it was Amanda Seals and Jive Poetic and that was it.
Blew my mind. The only other person is the one
(52:41):
that you actually have a whole life with. There you go,
there you go, two people. That was it. I never
forget it. That's horrendous. By the way, I was like, Oh,
nobody can say anything to me at all about you
on no day. You literally show up and you show
out and you have done it since the day we met.
So hats talk to you, absolute you. I love you.
(53:03):
That's my mean thank you for having me.
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