September 3, 2025 • 54 mins
This week, we talk to Sarah Gregg and Jill Ritchie, founders of The Intuitive Psychology Association, to unpack the power of intuition as not only a concept, but a practical skill that can be harnessed to enrich your life.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Small help from this small, small human area. Small It's
so funky.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Welcome to another edition of Small Doses podcast. So excited
for this episode. So intuition is something I've been talking
about a lot, particularly if you follow me on Patreon,
you know that I've been talking about intuition like ad nausea,
and particularly in the last year, because I really feel
like so many of the adjustments that I've made in
(00:37):
my life have not come from advice. They haven't come
from you know, like some discovery and therapy, Like it
literally just came from a message, you know, kind of
like a download or like a satellite sending out some.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Type of message.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
And you know, when I was really doing a lot
more content on Instagram that was not education base, but
was more so just like just me kind of going
off the cuff.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
So much of that was just intuition base.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Like it wasn't like I would be planning out things
or have a list of things that I want to
talk about. It was literally like I'd just be in
the world and I would just receive a transmission and
it'd be like but da Dad, and then I would
just spit it out. And you know, I think that
did get me into trouble sometimes because just because I've
received the transmission doesn't mean that I've like refined it
here in my life.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Now, I realize that so.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Much of my intuition that I'm listening to these days
is more refined simply because I am more refined in
my understanding of self. And that has been a really
important part of my journey to leave Hollywood in la
of my journey to shift my career and like where
I'm putting my energy and how I'm putting my energy,
(01:50):
and that's just like an on going process. I'm also
in that like midlife era. So for some they call
it a mid life crisis. I refuse, and I call
it a midlife awakening. And I think that our guests
today are really doing incredible work that lends itself to
(02:11):
where we are, to where I am not only as
us like an individual, but also to like where we
are in the world. So the Intuitive Psychology Association is
a training and a creditition body for coaches who are
focused on integrating psychology and intuition into a coaching framework.
And this was founded by psychologists and author Sarah greg
(02:32):
and intuitive coach Jill Ritchie and basically what they're saying
with this work is that psychology, which has just been
a study of behavior in the mind, requires a bit
more connectivity to the body to actually be able to
be effective. And so what they're doing is working with coaches,
and so these people can either be psychologists, they can
(02:54):
be coaches. I actually ask them in the interview, like,
who are the types of people that come to you?
But folks that are work working with other people come
to them to be better at working with other people.
And I think it's going to be a really interesting
listen for you guys, because they are doing something that
I feel like we talk about on a more individual basis. However,
(03:15):
they're applying it in actual practicum, within an actual practice
that exists already.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
So that to me is really dope, because we do.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Have to disrupt structures in very real ways, and it
takes certain types of people to be willing to stick
their neck out and say, you know what, we're gonna
disrupt the structure in this very specific way. And sometimes
it takes, you know, only certain kind of people to
be allowed to do that, like these are two white ladies. Nonetheless,
they're again speaking from a place of a shared moral
(03:53):
and ethical vision that I think is lacking in so
many that we see with platforms. So I'm really excited
to platform here on Small Doses Podcasts. So let's get
into it, Side Effects of Intuition Small Doses podcast. We
(04:15):
are welcome today by the.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Creators, the founders. All right, the founders.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
I always feel like that just gives it a little
more oomph than like, oh, we did this thing. The
founders of the Intuitive Psychology Association, Sarah greg and Jill Ritchie.
One of you guys is an intuitive coach. One of
you guys is an author and a psychologist. And I
don't know which one of you is.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Who.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Yes, nice.
Speaker 4 (04:44):
So I'm Sarah and I have a background in psychology.
I'm a member of the British Psychological Society, and I'm
a published author.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
And I'm Jill. So that makes me the intuitive coach
bringing the intuitive coaching to the party.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
So as somebody who's been through years and years and
years of therapy, like I've done my dance with therapy,
I've had cognitive behavioral therapy, I've had a psychologist, I
have a psychiatrist. Now, I feel like I've gotten to
experience many different methods right in terms of how the
(05:22):
psychology feeled, or just even the field of mental health
as a practice is experienced.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
On this side as a patient.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
But the work you guys do is around shifting the
way the coaches show up right, And I first.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Want to know just what made you. Now.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Let me just say this, A lot of these questions
will be redundant because you've had the same questions every time.
But my audience has never heard these questions answered. So
please bear with me if it does feel a little
bit like, oh gosh, we're doing this again.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
What was missing?
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Like what was the trigger point that said, Okay, I
got to call up my intuitive friend, like we need
to get this together.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
So we have been friends for like seven years, and
we're kind of like a bit of a blend of
nerd and magic and we.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Just so you're harmony Granger, Yeah, basically, yeah, I got it.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
I'm the nerd Jills a little bit of the magic.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
And we both have been in the.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
Coaching industry for a really long time, and we were
reaching a point a couple of years ago where we
were deeply frustrated with the coaching industry.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
It's become a bit.
Speaker 4 (06:23):
Of a wild West it's become capitalized and commoditized, like
Healen has become something that we buy and has sold
us and in that process it's lost a lot of
its integrity and authenticity. And also coaching as a field
has been stuck in a lack of innovation. So coaching
traditionally we'll focus on the present and the future. So
it's very much geared around how do I change my
(06:45):
life by taking actions? And it works from the conscious
mind only, and actually, what we know in our work
to be true is that you cannot create change from
the same level of consciousness that created the problem, Like
we need to go deeper than that. And in Tuition
was something that we both worked with and we wanted
to bring something into the industry that was funded in authenticity.
(07:08):
Integrity had an evidence based approach, but also fused two
seemingly different worlds together of modern psychology and ancient wisdom.
And why in chiation is so important in this is
we have to put it in the context of the
society that we live in. And we really say in
chiation as an act of like social rebellion, and that's
because in tuition is how we unlearn the conditions that
(07:30):
have been taught to us. It's how we remember who
we were before the world told us.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Who we should be.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
And in chiation is that silent noise that through generations
and years we have been taught to silence and outsource
to logic and in this information fuelize everyone. I think
for a long time, a long time not everyone agents apart.
I think it's become really normalized. I think particularly women
(07:58):
have been taught down to like school their intuition. It's
been viewed as something because it's unknown, it doesn't fit
particularly within a western I society, and that's important to
kind of like conceptualize, right like in Western society specific,
but if we go to kind of other societies or
the tribes or their cultures, intuition is really harnessed. But
over the years it's been attacked to something that isn't
(08:20):
known and because we can't necessarily measure it or quantify it.
Because actually it leads to creativity, it leads to social change,
it's something that has been silenced and we want to
bring that back. We want people to come back to
their authenticity and know that all the answers that they
have are within And how we do that is we
created the world's first and only Intuito Psychology coach training program.
(08:43):
We train into credit coaches to the highest level in
the entire industry. We're one of only eleven in the
world to credit to that level, and we're really here
to enact change in our corner of the world through
the profession that we love, but also on that wider
societal level.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
So I want to come back to the association, but
first I want to just talk about Jill the concept
of intuition, because I feel like for a lot of
people it's more so just literally just a concept versus
like you've harnessed it as something that is like tangible, right,
that is able to be addressed, that is able to
(09:21):
be enhanced.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Where did that come from for you?
Speaker 3 (09:25):
I guess for me, And going back to sort of
your original question was how did we get in touch
with each other to create it? I was definitely someone
who I've always felt very intuitive. Again, I lost that
part of myself trying to be accepted to fit in
and again gaber Matty talks about it a lot, you know,
trading our authenticity for attachment, choosing the attachment and being accepted,
(09:49):
And where that got me was very disconnected. I'm a
mom of two young boys, and at that time my
kids were really really small. I was working a corporate job,
which I guess I was on paper, very good at,
but I was very disconnected from and trading my authenticity,
my truth, my voice. I became very sick and my
(10:12):
hair was falling out. I was kind of head to
toe and exma so autoimmune. Yeah, like literally head to toe.
I was waking up kind of mid thirties with night
sweats soaked in sweat, heart racing, and I was so
ashamed to tell anyone about it because I thought, oh,
(10:32):
my goodness, I've got this job, and everyone's going to
judge me if I say that I'm feeling stressed. And
at that point, when I was in that corporate space,
it was really looked down on you. If you ever
said I'm really kind of struggling right now, I'm feeling
a little bit emotional about this. You were overlooked, you
weren't invited to meetings, board meetings, making decisions. You were
seeing as someone who couldn't cope. So I really internalized
(10:54):
so much of that, and what I realized by internalizing that,
I got myself really really sick to the point, right,
I actually convinced myself that I was going through early
menopause rather than admit that it was stress that was
causing it. I'm like, okay, I've self diagnosed early menopause.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
That's what it was.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
Went to the doctor. And at that time as well,
my mom was going through extensive cancer treatment, so it
was a really challenging time to navigate that I was
working sixty hours a week, still trying to be the
mom that did all the things keep a house. My
story is no different from so many people. But the
doctor actually said, you know what I actually think. You know,
(11:37):
you've got anxiety. I'm going to prescribe you some antidepressants.
And at that point another layer of shame was on
that for me. I was like, oh no, and now
I feel another level of shame that I'm you know.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
I have to medicate. I can't do this by myself.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
Yeah, but they never offered me anything else. It was like,
take this medication. You know, we were going to a lot.
My mom has terminal cancer, and I thought, but I
was like, this did not feel right for me and
my body. At that point, it was like it was
as hard no, And at that point I thought, if
I take that, I'm going to have to come off
at some point, and I'm not actually getting to the
(12:12):
root cause. And I knew what the root cause deeped
down was, but I had no space to actually consider
it because I was so busy mentally, emotionally, physically. And
I actually ended up getting into meditation and I found
it on YouTube again just sort of like, Okay, I
won't tell anyone I was a closet kind of person
(12:32):
who got into meditation. Again, no one in my space
was doing it. No one was meditating. I'm from a
sort of a small town, nothing wrong with the town
that I'm from, but no one was doing that kind
of work. So I sort of started teaching myself, okay,
breathing and I couldn't even sit for ten seconds.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
I was like, oh, just being in your mind by
yourself for ten seconds was too long.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
Absolutely being in my mind with the consideration of how
I was, and I was so determined to feel better
and not to take medication unless I really had to.
I thought there's got to be a better way, and
that was my kind of pathway to being with my
emotions and understanding myself. And I did what a lot
of people. Do you know, typical journaling and asking myself
(13:18):
questions and sitting with those moments, in those pauses, And
then I hired an incredible intuitive coach who okay, what.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait, because what made
you hire an intuitive coach? Like, did you specifically look
for an intuitive coach? Because I can tell you I
don't know anybody that well, let me speak for myself.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
I didn't know there was a thing.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
Yeah, so neither did I. My Actually, my partner who
I'm still with, the father of my kids. He had
said to me, I've heard of this coach, and this
is where I feel like when we are tapped into
that space and that energy and we create those pauses,
intervention comes in. Okay, And that's what happened for me.
Those moments of me just almost that tiny pause of
(14:02):
surrender to say I need help was enough to open
that portal to go, Okay, now we have a vessel.
Now we have something to drop into you. My partner
isn't in this space, like he's not in the personal
development world. Ironically, be got me my first personal development book,
whatever works. He said, I've got this girl that I
work with that'll manage it in his work. And he's like,
(14:23):
she works with this coach, and you know she's meant
to be amazing. I didn't know she was intuitive at
that time, had never worked with a coach. Got her
and from the moment I sat with her, she asked
me the most powerful questions that triggered the life out
of me.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Do you remember any of those questions?
Speaker 3 (14:42):
Yeah, the first time I came on, I've just burst
into two yours. I was so emotional. I was so
in my head and in my narrative those thing's happened
to me, and all this stuff's happening in my life
and it's not my fall, and I'm such a victim.
And then she said, I said, you know what, I
was in my story about something and one thing she
said was why do you care what people think? And
I was like, what, I're so appended, I thought, I
(15:06):
can't believe you don't get of course I care what
people think. In the moment, I'm like, why do I care?
But her asking me that triggered me because I thought, well,
of course I care what people think. I'm supposed to
care what everyone thinks, and I'm doing all the things
and it's still not working, but her asking me that
made me realize that I was so attached to everyone's
(15:27):
opinions of how I should live and what people thought
of me, and I was living this kind of lie,
you know, with the best intentions, but I was so
disconnected from my truth and so in my head and
through time and space, we sat down and really never
worked from the conscious mind. Everything was go to the
(15:47):
part of the body, which was so new for me.
But interestingly, it was so easy for me to go
into those parts of my body. It was like my
intuition was like, hah, the calling, she's here, thankfully, and
just unpicking those parts of myself and really realizing that, wow,
I'm walking about my eyes are so open, but I'm
(16:10):
so closed off to what really matters and what's really
going on for me. And understanding myself on that deeper
level and working with her completely got me into my intuition.
And when I guess, like anyone, when you go on
that transformational journey, you don't want to gate keep it.
You want to share it with people. And that's what
I read. I actually left my corporate job, and which
(16:32):
again is another story. It was a terrifying space to
leave that because the security and the money and having
kids and a mortgage and all these things to pay.
But knowing that I had to do it.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
You could also tell your partner, this is your faults,
so you started this.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
But I believe we're all in each other's lives for
a reason, and it's just crazy. He's not into this,
but he has definitely been that person who.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Has let me get into it.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
It's funny because he's not not into he's like, I
don't know. I think we have to meet people where
they're at right, Not everyone's ready.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
No, sometimes this is enabling, that's it.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
Well, you're right, you're right. I think for me, what
I've really learned is and I used to try and
change him, right, I'd be like, ah, you know, you
need to do this thing, and you need to understand
you know, why you're like that and why you're so
angry or why you're showing up like this. And actually,
what again I learned is he's not my responsibility. I
think I took on so much responsibility for him and
(17:32):
me and Sarah and I used to talk about this.
Sarah and I have been like friends for years, and
I would come on and I'd be like, and even
you would say, you know, you assume so much responsibility, Jill,
It's not down to you. We're each responsible for me
doing my work, was responsible for me and actually what
that's done. The ripple effect of that has changed how
our relationship is communiky, how we parent. We parent differently now.
(17:56):
And I think for the intuitive piece, it's just a
lot myself to go in there to be the embodiment
of the work. I think that's really important, especially when
you're in the space, to be the embodiment of it,
to be there to teach that to others. Because we
can all read the books, we can study.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
The material, but being the embody can demonstrate it.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
It's so different and it's so needed.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
I mean, not all people, I feel like are receptive
to the demonstrating of these ideas, of these realities. But
it's like so beautiful when you see it, right, when
you see the ripple effect happen, how it just reverberates out.
The field of psychology was of course created by men
who were not interested in knowing their bodies. They're interested
(18:49):
in this is my opinion. They weren't interested in knowing
their bodies. And for what it's worth. The women who
were knowledgeable on a higher level, you know, they were vilified,
they were considered witches. You know, they were considered you know,
and actors of heresy and they.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Were literally burned at stakes.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
So you know, I feel like the work that you
guys are doing, it's really bringing back to or it's
not even bringing back to because it never had it,
but it's infiltrating a field that really has made its
mark in excising us from our bodies, excizing women also
from the conversation and the uniqueness of what we bring,
(19:25):
Like there's something unique about being able to create a
person in your body, Like that's gonna just cause different abilities.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
Yeah, and just to speak, psychology kind of made an
interest in deviation that I really feel set consciousness back significantly,
and it's what we are currently reviving and trying to
add to the field and the discipline. So Carl Jung
is like a very famous psychologist psychiatrist, and he created
depth psychology, and I would say he was very inchient,
(19:52):
Like he gave a nod to the mysticism, like he
talked about the collective unconscious. Francis von Female one of
the key figure in terms of studying initiation, and they
were really trailably as in a pass that actually enabled
us to recognize what inchiation really is. So you know,
for many people listening, you might be thinking in chiation,
as we commonly know it in our everyday lives, is
(20:13):
an intuitive nudge, right. It's that feeling that we can't
really explain or we don't really know why we feel
that way. We've got a certain sensation about a person,
a place, or a thing that like doesn't feel quite right,
or maybe feels entirely right. But that's initiation in just
like a muh way, like that's a tip of the iceberg.
That's nothing in terms of what intuition actually does. So
initiation in that forum just floods your conscious awareness. So
(20:36):
it brings it immediately into kind of like consciousness because
it has a degree of urgency to it. It's such
a strong sensation. But inchition is always present, but not
necessarily always perceived, and it lies just below the threshold
of consciousness. And what Young and Francis Vaughan and others
in the field were discovering was it was the keyed
or unconscious, so it made the unconscious conscious. And actually
(20:59):
it was a memory of the truth. That's why Francis
Vaughan described it. She was like, it is a memory
of the truth. It is untainted by societal conditions. It
is free from all of the external noise and narratives
that we absorb. Actually when why, Well, that's a bit
that we don't know, and that's a bit that makes us.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
That's the stuff that I think about every day.
Speaker 4 (21:20):
Yeah, because you can scan my body and find my intuition. Right,
there has to be this awareness And I don't think
that we should vilify it because it's a bit warrior,
we don't understand it. There has to be an acceptance
in we know it to be true because we have
the direct experience of it. We know that we have
our intuition in some capacity. You felt it, and so
(21:43):
the question becomes not do we have it? But the
more important question, I feel is why do we lose it?
Why do we lose it? How do we come into
this world? We've got epigenetics and a lot of stuff
and ancestral baggage, you know, and all of that that
we're carrying. But somehow in that process we internalize and
we stop asking ourselves what is true? We start asking ourselves.
(22:05):
Who do I need to be in order to feel
safe in this world?
Speaker 1 (22:08):
What even is this world?
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Like?
Speaker 2 (22:11):
That's the other part, Like when you start really getting.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Into the deep deep of it, You're like, are we here?
How did we get here? What is all this?
Speaker 4 (22:21):
Like?
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Sometimes I'm like, is intuition really that I've already lived
this life once and I'm living it again? And basically
I already know the mistakes that happened last time, and
so I already know how to save myself from that because,
let me tell y'all, every single time I ignore my intuition,
(22:42):
I'm like, God damn it. And it's like I feel
like I'm in a groundhog day, Like I always end
up on the right path. Yeah, so it's like the
path is always there, but it's like, yeah, but did
I really have to waste three years?
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (22:56):
Intuition is a remember and of what you know to
be true. And I actually think, like that example of
am I here, Like how many different past lives actually think? Well,
I don't think I know this to be true. Most
of us are operating from an unconscious place, like ninety
five percent of our behavior. It's literally that you're.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Want to say, sty five percent of people that was
like a great yes, agreed.
Speaker 4 (23:15):
Yes, but it's just on the same loop and pattern.
So you know, even if you look back through like
the past year of your life, the past two, you
can see the same patterns. Like I say it in
my own life. You know, I read through my journals
and I'm like, Jesus, it is exhausting to be me.
I'm reading the same stuff that I wrote, like yes,
(23:37):
so so I do think it's that, but I think
it continually comes. I think the danger is, like what
are we looking for? We're often chasing the destination and
the bit of life. It should be a reward within itself,
like the experience is the reward. I love these deep
conversations where we're like really figuring it out, but ultimately,
I think the bit that we all come back to
(23:57):
is like the bits that are important are did I
live a life that was really true to me? Was
I my full self? I think so many people, especially
women right now, I have this deep desire to be
seen and heard. I think most people want to be
seen and heard and understood and loved for who they
are in the world. And I truly believe, like I
truly believe that entition is part of that solution.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Would you say so?
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Doctor Tima Tima s Bryant is somebody who I really admire.
She's the president of the Psychologists Association.
Speaker 4 (24:27):
Of what is the Actual Yeah, Apa apa, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
And so she wrote this article in October of the
year you guys founded the association, and the title of
the article is psychologists must embrace the colonial psychology. To
advance as a field, we must recognize the importance of
cultural humility, advocacy, and embodied healing.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
And this is in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
So I wanted to hear just how you guys respond
to that and how your work either aligns or doesn't
with that thinking.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
Yeah, I think it does aligne massively in terms of
so much. But I want to talk to the part
around the embodiment of the healing. And you guys have
talked a lot there around feeling certain things and going
against your intuition. Any time, like when I was at
my worst point in my life, it was because massively
there was a lot going on externally that I was
(25:18):
massively disconnected to my intuition. I knew that I shouldn't
be in that role, that I was in in the work.
I knew that I should have left that years ago.
I knew I should have been having conversations that I
wasn't having. But again, my fear of rejection, not being accepted,
being pushed out of the gang, or whatever that was
(25:40):
was so big that I was sacrificing my connection to self,
my deeper purpose because I wanted to fit in. But
as a byproduct of that, and I see it, we
see it happen in time again, people get sacked. There's
so much around autoimmune disorders. There is so much happening
in people's body, and the body is always communicating with
(26:02):
us all the time. When we train our coaches, they
have to go through rigorous training and it's a six
month intensive training, but they are coach. We have a
suite of thirty four techniques and we work with the past,
the present, and the future. So we have this shadow
alchemy method and we take our coaches through this training
(26:23):
and they do have to go into the shadow work.
It is working deeply with the unconscious and some of
that is uncomfortable. But what we do is we want
to move them through so that it creates space so
that they are their medicine, they can be with those
parts of themselves instead of continually outsourcing. We're seeing it
all the time, outsource, outsource, outsourcer answers, where does that
(26:45):
get us? More things, more grades, more of this, more money,
more objects. Again keeps us disconnected from ourselves. The key
is how do we when we train people, how do
we bring our clients and the clients that are coach
work with. The goal is to bring them back to authenticity,
back to intuition, back to essence. It's not about outsourcing
(27:07):
that whatever they achieve in their life is a byproduct
of being more tapped in and tuned into their intuition.
So they have to be the embodiment of the work.
They have to work through their own staff. And by
the way, it's important to say it's never a one
and done, like you don't come and train with us
in Wow boom, I'm so haled, I'm never triggered again,
Like we still get triggered. We've done a lot of
(27:29):
this work. You know, we're human beings, we're living in
a human world. We're experiencing a lot. There is a
lot going on in the world right now. To say
that you're never going to be triggered is a lie.
But if we can play our part in bringing people
back to intuition, to truth, to authenticity, we believe that
better humans create better worlds, and that is one of
(27:51):
our bigger missions is to take this work out to
the world and to have that ripple impact, ripple effect
to change.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
So can you actually answer the question? I asked?
Speaker 3 (28:05):
Oh, sorry, yeah, would you mind just repeating it? Like,
is that okay?
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Because I want to know to just be frank, you're
two white women, Yeah, so you exist in a particular
place of privilege, right, and that when you talk about
like the shadow work that is done in that process, right,
I'm curious to know, like, what are examples of shadow
work that you feel like has presented itself, because I
feel like it would align with what doctor Cima S.
(28:34):
Bryant is talking about here in terms of decolonizing psychology,
because if we're getting to our authentic selves, so many
of us in the world just don't want to acknowledge
certain privileges, Like for instance, I live in the United States,
and I've had to be very honest with myself that
regardless of it, if I am against the imperialism of
the United States.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Regardless of if I.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Am against the Zionism of the United States and it's
complicity and genocide, I am still so complicit by nature
of being in the United States, of paying taxes that
get utilized for this, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
I am still also having to.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Admit that being in the United States as a black person,
even though I am simultaneously a victim of oppression, of discrimination,
of racism, etc. I have also been a part of
an overarching system that perpetuates.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
That across the globe.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
And that shadow work is something that I had to
really face in order to be my full authentic self
and in order to be honest about my capabilities to
challenge that right.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
But I know to your point, that's not easy work
to do.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
But it speaks to the decolonization of my place in
this world. But as a psychologist, like, where do you
feel the decolonializing of psychology aligns with the work that
you guys are doing.
Speaker 4 (29:53):
I feel like it's part of the process, and I
think there has to be the acknowledgement of privileg of
the unconscious bias that enters research and research work, and
how when new modalities are created, they're created from a
place of privilege and from a place of your own
lived experience. And I think that is why you have
to be the embodiment of the work, because what we're
talking about, and what I hear from your example is
(30:15):
is the move away from hyper individualized healing, like a
move away from this is my map of the world,
and therefore it should fit yours. And actually it's something deeper,
because I think hyperindividualized healing psychology, you know, as a
science traditionally white, traditionally males, traditionally funded increasingly just by
budgets that have a degree of bias in it, a
(30:37):
lack of innovation in the field. We know, even I
have had examples from people in the field who have
told me confidentially that they have had research that has
been conducted that has shown things like esp like extrasensory perception,
that has shown things that challenge this cause and effect society,
this materialist world that we live in, and it's been
squashed down and they've been told that they cannot publish
(30:59):
it otherwise their reputations will be at risk, and it's
been held back by the universities that they work for.
So if that's just a snippet of what we know
to be true. We need to acknowledge that within society,
and we need to get out of this place of
hyper individualized healing where we heal from a place of
what does this get for me? And a place of
privilege and actually go that level and layer deeper and go, Okay,
(31:23):
first of all, I've got to heal myself first, right,
I've got to trudge through that layer. But then comes
to the next one, and that's the more important one.
The next one is like place in my individual experience
within the societal context that I live in. And that's
what I hear you say. And it's almost like unlayering
some shame around that. It's having uncomfortable conversations around that.
We are absolutely two white women that have grown up
(31:46):
in a Western society with our own individualized experience, but
we cannot speak to particular cultures, particular other lived experiences.
And we have to acknowledge that because otherwise your work
doesn't have nuance and it doesn't have depth, and it
doesn't apply to the collective in a way. And I
think that level deeper. The deeper that you go, the
more actually you're able to challenge the societal noise that exists,
(32:09):
the societal conditions that are being created. And as you
get to your truth, then you start pushing back against
the prison that you have been trapped in and you
look at the lies and you question and you go, actually,
why is that true? And the healing has to come first, right,
because you've got to have the courage to have those conversations.
And when you're scared of being ostracized, when you're scared
(32:31):
of not fitting in, when you're scared of not being
interruth with yourself, then you cannot speak from that place.
But we have a job to do that. I'd say
we're in the process of doing that. I don't think
that we're polished or perfect at it. I still think
that we've got a lot to learn on it.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
I don't think anyone ever will.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
Yeah, but we acknowledge that.
Speaker 4 (32:48):
And I think psychology, in fact, insert any other discipline
system has so much to learn from that process.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
I mean, it feels very v for Vendetta.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
It's very like we're going to strip you down to
make you able to see the real deals.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
That you can actually fight.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
The real enemy that you have been tricked to think
is yourself, which right, Like the concept of intuition as
different from feeling. Can you speak to that, Jill, because
I think there's something very basic that Like when you're
in therapy, they'll ask like, but.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
How do you feel? You know, how do you feel?
Speaker 2 (33:24):
But I don't think, Like I've had therapists ask that question,
but they don't mean intuition, right, Like they just mean
like are you sad?
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Like did it frustrate you?
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Like it's more so like I don't know, like feelings
words versus like body, like.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
How did this affect yourselves?
Speaker 2 (33:38):
You know?
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (33:40):
And that's the thing because most people are I feel
like shit cross Like That's the thing of what we
really understood was when we started to bring this work
into the space rather than coaching with eyes open, because
it's like, how do you feel?
Speaker 4 (33:56):
Well?
Speaker 3 (33:56):
Honestly, like sometimes it's like, well, how should I answer
this when the eye are open? We're like, actually, most
of our coaching, most of our sessions that we do
our eyes closed because it allows us to come out
of the personal think in mind. We don't do questions
with eyes open. We deeply regulate someone's nervous system where
it feels safe enough for them. We bring them in
(34:17):
and we take them through a process to drop them
out of the mind and into the body, and then
we ask a question. We say to our guys all
the time. If I ask a question, they'll give me
an answer. Then I take them into a deeper state.
I ask that question completely different. It's a felt sense,
it's a bodily sense. It's like, oh, you know. And
we start working with metaphors. It's singular words. You're not
(34:41):
in the story and when your eyes are closed, you're
not looking for the cues. Is this the right answer?
I'm not looking for validation. I'm in my own world,
within a world. When I'm in that body, I'm able
to see what I can't see with my eyes open.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
What type of psychologists come to you all, like, what
do you feel like? Is the tipping point for them
to say, you know what, it's time I have to
get myself over to the intuitive psychology association.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
This isn't where I need to be anymore.
Speaker 4 (35:11):
So we train a range of people from a range
of discipline. So we'll have new coaches that come and
train with us who have no previous experience, but have
often done a level of their own work where it's
like they want to go deeper with themselves. They recognize
the importance of working with the unconscious. Like we've used
this quote all the time from young you know, until
we make the unconscious conscious, it will rule our life
(35:32):
and we will call it fate. So they really recognize
that on some intuitive level that wait.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
Wait, wait, say one more time, say one more time,
say it one more time, say one more time.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (35:42):
So, until we make the unconscious conscious, it will rule
our life and we will call it fate.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Until we make the unconscious conscious, it will rule our
life and we will call it fate.
Speaker 4 (35:52):
Okay, because we feel like we don't have any other possibilities.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
We're just on autopilot.
Speaker 4 (35:57):
So we'll have people that come from kind of thing,
from fitness coach, from a premiership football team to actually
CEOs of large commercial banks have come and trained with us.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
That feels dangerous.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
Yeah, no, they are the most.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Do they go back to the bank.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
I feel like after you do the coaching, you're like,
I can't be in this bank anymore.
Speaker 4 (36:16):
One of them is bringing it into the banking system.
She is like a trial blazer our house of a female.
She is excellent and so we attract in these change makers,
these people who really want to enact change, or holistic
healers or coaching spoken word.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
We've spoken word artists.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Yeah, intuition is not a given.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
We don't have a typical or someone from a corporate
or No.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
I just assumed it was all people that are in
the actual psychology field that are coaching, you know, for
the purpose of therapy.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
So this is fascinating.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
Yeah, this is the.
Speaker 4 (36:53):
Beauty of it because psychology is a protected term, do
you know, So you've got to go through the degrees
and you've got to have like a membership body and
all of that, so you know, you don't come out
as a psychologist, but you come out as an inituite
of psychology coach. And honestly, the psychology aspect is one
part of it, I really do believe, even though that's
my field and my discipline and I love it, it's
often just a portal. It's safety, it's a little bit
(37:15):
of evidence that makes someone trust in the mystical. So
it's this fusion of modern psychology and incient wisdom that
really creates something that is transformative, like for the clients.
So it's a range of different people, different disciplines, but
they all share the same values. They want to create
change within their lives and the lives of others, and
they want to do it in a way that feels
(37:36):
highly ethical. Like we are one of eleven in the
world to credit to the level that we train at.
We are governed by our own professional body, the Association
for Coaching. They are ethical, but they want to do
the deep work. But they don't just want like an
Instagram certificate. They don't want to do an online course
so they don't embody it. They want to really know
that they can bring this work into the world with
(37:58):
like full confidence. So that's generally who come to work
with us, and we have incredible Like one of our students,
she was a holistic energy healer. When she first joined,
she was like, I don't like the psychology bit, Like
I don't trust it, I don't like it. I was like,
let's gill, let's just see how you get on because
it's just the study of human behavior, but it's wrapped
in a bit of science. And actually she is now
going on to do her master's in psychology. Yeah, so yeah,
(38:22):
fascinating And on the flip side, the same thing We
have corporate people that come who literally, when we say
closer in their eyes get them into that deep intuitive
state because when the nervous system is relaxed and we
bring purposely, we activate intuition, so they're in an intuitive
state where literally your intuition is on fire. It's bringing
everything forward. We have corporate people that come and train
(38:44):
with us and they can't even close their eyes down
whenever they first come because they're so in the logical mind.
So it's a wild ride for us. Like we love this.
We love watching their transformations and then what they go
and kind of do in the world afterwards is just
amazing to witness. It renews our faith in humanity. Often
(39:05):
you're from Northern Ireland.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
Yeah, how has being from where you guys are respectively
from played a role in this path for you?
Speaker 1 (39:14):
You mentioned mysticism.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
You know, I know that that is a very big
part of Ireland that was very strongly squashed, Like we
get veries from Ireland, and you know, just the culture
of Ireland was actively attempted to be completely discarded as
well as in Scotland. So I would love to hear
from you guys just about how your own histories as
(39:39):
humans that are, you know, living in a legacy, if
at all, has it played a role in your connectivity
to intuition and to mysticism as a necessary practice in
creating a more ethical world?
Speaker 4 (39:51):
Yeah, definitely. So I grew up in Belfast. I'm what
they call a child of the end of the Troubles.
So I grew up when there was active trouble. My
skull was frequently evacuated for bomb scares. I had army
men who sat with you know, rifles in my front garden.
My mom would make them cups of tea. I've sadly
known people who have been murdered through the process of
(40:12):
the troubles, and very much like the culture that I
identify with was something that was wrapped in like a
layer of shame, especially for the generations like like went before,
you know, they felt like they had to fit in.
But interestingly, my mom's so my great grammy, she was
a fortune teller, So she was like a traveling like gypsy. Basically,
(40:34):
I don't think we're allowed to call them that.
Speaker 5 (40:36):
Yeah, no, hermon I mean, you know in.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
Picky blinders, romany gypsy.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
Yeah, romeny. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (40:52):
And she used to earn a living through taro, but
she'd learned taro with the playing cards, and she passed
that down to my mom, and so my mom would
do her tarot cards but with playing cards. My house
was deeply intuitive. Like my mom and my auntie would
be very into the spirit world. Their houses were frequently haunted.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
Ye you know that, right, this is where he's from,
Like they live in Ingham, but this is the yes, Okay.
Speaker 4 (41:22):
Yeah, it was very like that. Like there was a
lot of I guess what you would call kind of
like superstition, but on reflection, they were definitely like spiritual practices.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
They just call it superstition to try to undermine its relevance.
Speaker 4 (41:34):
But yeah, so I grew up with that, but I
think I didn't fully lean into it because of my
own upbringing and background. I grew up in a very
chaotic household where there was a lot of violence and
turbulence and a lot of things that I didn't understand,
and so this felt like maybe another thing that I
couldn't fully trust, And so I definitely leaned in to
(41:54):
psychology as a way to understand human behavior in logic
to what I was experiencing. And so I leant into
that world and I think fill honestly, for a while,
like I lost that part of myself, you know, because
I went to into the scientific rigor ofen all and
like the cause and effect, and then it wasn't until
(42:16):
like later years where I started to come back to that.
I think there's been an unraveling within our own kind
of cultural history about the Irish language revival, the work
we've talked about Naycap, like the work that Naycap were
doing being able to give a voice to maybe a
lot of the cultural things that we lost, and so
there's been a coming back to that. And then I
(42:36):
feel like there's a resurgence of that. I notice it
in Ireland when I go home, like people are more
connected to the land, Like younger people are embracing it.
They're in the forest.
Speaker 3 (42:45):
They're in the forest. Yeah, they're in the fall.
Speaker 4 (42:47):
About the forest, all about the forest, right, the fairies
live there. So there's a real nod to that, and
I think we need that. Yes, so yes, it definitely
formed part of me. But I think that that lodge
kind of scientific and the spiritual is probably how those
two things came together for me on a personal level.
Speaker 3 (43:05):
Can I just jump in here, I think as well,
for you, Sarah, what we were talking about earlier, doing
your own personal work allowed that to really come forward
to release, you know, Sarah, taking that sort of personal
going right, I need to do my own work. I
need to be the embodiment of this allowed you to
then go, I can talk about this now, and I
(43:26):
feel building enough safety within your body. You know, we
were talking about the safety if we don't feel speak
we don't want to speak up because it's like ah,
But actually you doing that work has allowed you to
really understand all of those parts, put it together, release
certain parts, hold and nurture those parts, and create so
much safety for you to bring this and have this
(43:46):
voice and to speak about it now as well.
Speaker 4 (43:49):
I think like even like maybe five years ago, I
would have struggled with a conversation like this because it
wouldn't have been fully to in the line, and I
would have felt like uncomfortable and maybe not uncomfortable with
how those parts kind of fit together. But I think
that's a reflection of the polarity of the world that
we live in. You know, it's an either or rather
than a yes, and and I think this merge of
(44:11):
kind of the science and the spirituality, like you get
to have both, and I think like that's the beautiful
aspect of it. But definitely like I would have struggled
with that before because fear of judgment, you know, fear
of kind of like, yeah, being shunned from a discipline
that values just scientific rigor. And I don't know if
Jill you want to speak to anything else on your
(44:31):
kind of experience Scotland.
Speaker 3 (44:35):
I never had that experience that Sina had, you know,
in Belfast. And I guess for me, my family or
my grandparents were Christian, went to church. Grandad was a
church elder, good people. I went to Sunday school a
few times as a kid, you know, I used to
hate that boss used to come and pick me and
(44:55):
my sister off. It was a Sunday. I was like, Mom,
I wanted to just play with my toys.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
We're still going to school.
Speaker 3 (45:02):
All the kids are on the bus. Did you know what.
I just used to go into my own little world.
I never really absorbed a lot of it, to be honest.
My school report was always Jills in our own little world,
at my fantasy world of you know, heads in the clouds,
and that was so much judgment you know, I was
never really the academic kid that sat and really loved
(45:23):
learning and.
Speaker 1 (45:24):
Studying academic rigor.
Speaker 3 (45:27):
I was much more. I loved art, I loved drawing.
I loved writing and creating things and making things up
and being super creative in that space. But I never
kind of fitted in because I was always our heads
always in the clouds. But I never My household was
you know, it was just my mum, my sister, and I.
My dad left before I was born. They separated and
(45:50):
back then nineteen eighty when I was born, and I
do not look that up.
Speaker 1 (45:54):
We're all the same. Yeah, I'm forty four, anyone.
Speaker 3 (45:57):
So nineteen eighty I was born and everyone so georgy.
My mum was a single mom bringing up two girls.
My mom had three jobs, and everyone judged. I'm like,
why are we judging the women here?
Speaker 1 (46:08):
Like is that help me judge?
Speaker 4 (46:10):
Me?
Speaker 3 (46:11):
Know, I'm like, what's going on? But I was brought
up to be such a strong woman because it was
just like females, you know what I mean. But that
played a massive part in my life because that I'm
so grateful to my mom, who was such a nurturer,
for having that beautiful experience with her, but it did
play a part in my life of never trusting men
(46:33):
and you know like that well, like I'm coming for you,
you want to sit up with men. It was definitely
an issue for me growing up and having that kind
of they're not safe, it's not safe to let them in.
And again just going back to doing that work for
myself and understanding why I was having these repeated patterns
in my life and in relationships. You know, all great
(46:55):
at the start and then I'm like always looking for
my eggs at how do I exit this relationship? Where's
my where's my door? To just escape this space because
it never ever felt safe and I feel like never
having like what Sada's experienced. But different again, we all
experience different things. I had a lovely childhood. I never
felt like I missed out not having a dad. I
(47:15):
would rather have a solid mum than a toxic relationship
where I God, I can't imagine what my life would
be like by both my parents have passed. We were
talking about this coming in the car house like that
to say it this morning driving and I'm like, I'm
an actual orphan. My mom passed away. Sadly, that was
(47:36):
such a hard hard time for us when my dad
passed away two years before my mom. But I imagine
what my life would be like and that's why I
feel like, you know, but I feel Jill is very
kind of like just to put into context, like, Jill's
very in touch with like Scotland and the roots.
Speaker 4 (47:53):
So she lives in a town just outside of Edinburgh
and she'll walk up onto the null, onto the hill
with her drum and she plays and sings on the hill,
which I love.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
So you're literally going to be taken back in time
and highlander Like, why not?
Speaker 3 (48:07):
Literally I do? I take the drum up. I'll sit
up there with my cackau and my drum and I'll
chant and people. That's the funny. You're right, that connection
to nature, to earth, to my heritage. My grandparents were
from there, so there is that real connection to there
when I'm able to drop in. But people must walk
past with their dogs and think what because it's not
(48:29):
really the dumb thing. I'm like, well weird, they're probably
a bit of a weirdo.
Speaker 2 (48:35):
You're the town, which that's I have a friend that
I do with and she's the two of us are
kind of virtue together with.
Speaker 3 (48:43):
Our potions and all that said. Like, I actually read
a book a few months ago about which is from
Edinburgh and Scotland and how they were burned at the
stake and it was actually, oh my goodness, I was
in tears feeling the pain of these women, how they
were treated for just being deeply connected to intuition right
(49:05):
literally to actually have.
Speaker 1 (49:07):
The knowing herbs that can heal people exactly.
Speaker 3 (49:10):
Honestly, it was heartbreaking reading this book and really brings
me back to us and what we do and to
try and get into it. I said, at our small
part in the world, if we can make an impact
and we can bring people back to this, you know,
we're not going to be burned at the stake anymore.
But here the thing is when we drop into that.
I've been in deep processes when it's ancestral and it's
(49:33):
like this isn't mine, this is a great great great grandparent,
and I've felt that emotion and that sadness and that grief,
and I believe that if we can create that change
and create new pathways for people to tap back into that,
then that's what we're here for.
Speaker 2 (49:51):
So well, we're going to go to my special Patreon
only segment, and I want to ask you guys sit
take us through just a short version of what is
the way that you get people to drop in? So
are we down for that?
Speaker 3 (50:07):
Yes? We all are?
Speaker 1 (50:08):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (50:09):
All right, y'all join us over at the Seale Squad
at Patreon and we are here with the Intuitive Psychology Associations. Sarah, which,
by the way, you pronounce Sarah so differently than Americans,
like you say Sira and I was like, cool, her
name is Siah and I was like, I did not
see that. I'm like, no, it is Sarah. Okay, okay,
(50:31):
Seira and Jill. So we're gonna go with Sarah and Jill,
which is hell on the iron cane sound. So we'll
be open there and Patreon y'all. The last, So where
(50:53):
do you do the training? How does the training happen?
Speaker 4 (50:56):
So in terms of training with us, So we facilitate
all of our training online, so we have a global community.
We've got graduates and students who are in America, also
Hong Kong, Europe, so we're a very global organization. So
the training is online. It's six months. We only take
two cohorts per year and we limit our cohorts to
(51:17):
twenty five a maximum of twenty five per cohort because
for us, this is about a personalized learning experience. This
isn't about profit, it's not about taking your money and
wizzey through. It's about being deeply in integrity and training
the next generation of change makers who will go and
enact incredible change within the world. So we train exceptional
(51:37):
coaches and we really pride ourselves on that is.
Speaker 1 (51:40):
It as a group or is it individual sessions.
Speaker 4 (51:43):
As a group, So they'll do six months training. Some
modules are online and then we have a live coach
and mastery calls that are hosted by myself in jail.
And they're very practical, so they'll practice the techniques, they
get live observation feedback. But also in the most important
part for us is they are coach throughout the six months,
so they go on their own coaching journey, they peer
(52:04):
coach each other, so it's personally and professionally transformative. Like
without fail, every student that graduates with us uses the
same term that it was a life change, in like
they are a different person at the end of it,
and we want them to be because we don't want
to train to your point of the unconscious bias. We
want all of that unconscious to be made conscious as
(52:26):
much as we can. Like it's an ever evolven journey,
so it's an in depth training program, but we design
it for busy lives, so we've got a lot of
entrepreneurs that come and train with us, people with busy schedules.
And you can find out more on our website, which
is Intuitive hyphen Psychology dot com. You can check us
out on Instagram at we dot r dot IPA. You'll
(52:47):
see lots of testimonials from our students, like their shared experience.
You can see the work that they're doing in the world.
You can get to know us a little bit more.
And if you want to really start exploring your intuition,
like maybe this has sparked the idea maybe you want
to be a coach. You don't want to be a coach,
but maybe you're like, I want to work with my intuition.
Then we have a free resource called the Question Method,
(53:07):
and it's twenty two questions that are normally reserved for
coaches in training, but you can download it. You can
journal because journaling is also an incredible way to access
your intuition through that free flow writing. It gets you
out of the conscious mind, so it kind of closing
down your eyes feels a bit too much, or you
don't have the resources to work with a coach right now.
By the way, we always are looking for case studies
as well, So if anyone can't afford coaching, or if
(53:30):
that feels out of reach for them and they'd like
to be a case study, please reach out to us
and we'll keep your name on file. You can access
that coaching but that free resource is available as well,
and we'll give you the link and if you can
drop it in the show notes, that will be great.
But we'd love to hear from anyone who's connected with
this episode and feels inspired to be part of that change,
to work with intuition and blend these worlds and really
(53:51):
take coaching specifically as an industry and a profession into
the future.
Speaker 2 (53:56):
Thank you all so much, incredible, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 3 (54:01):
Oh no
Small help from this small, small human area. Small It's
so funky.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Welcome to another edition of Small Doses podcast. So excited
for this episode. So intuition is something I've been talking
about a lot, particularly if you follow me on Patreon,
you know that I've been talking about intuition like ad nausea,
and particularly in the last year, because I really feel
like so many of the adjustments that I've made in
(00:37):
my life have not come from advice. They haven't come
from you know, like some discovery and therapy, Like it
literally just came from a message, you know, kind of
like a download or like a satellite sending out some.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Type of message.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
And you know, when I was really doing a lot
more content on Instagram that was not education base, but
was more so just like just me kind of going
off the cuff.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
So much of that was just intuition base.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Like it wasn't like I would be planning out things
or have a list of things that I want to
talk about. It was literally like I'd just be in
the world and I would just receive a transmission and
it'd be like but da Dad, and then I would
just spit it out. And you know, I think that
did get me into trouble sometimes because just because I've
received the transmission doesn't mean that I've like refined it
here in my life.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Now, I realize that so.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Much of my intuition that I'm listening to these days
is more refined simply because I am more refined in
my understanding of self. And that has been a really
important part of my journey to leave Hollywood in la
of my journey to shift my career and like where
I'm putting my energy and how I'm putting my energy,
(01:50):
and that's just like an on going process. I'm also
in that like midlife era. So for some they call
it a mid life crisis. I refuse, and I call
it a midlife awakening. And I think that our guests
today are really doing incredible work that lends itself to
(02:11):
where we are, to where I am not only as
us like an individual, but also to like where we
are in the world. So the Intuitive Psychology Association is
a training and a creditition body for coaches who are
focused on integrating psychology and intuition into a coaching framework.
And this was founded by psychologists and author Sarah greg
(02:32):
and intuitive coach Jill Ritchie and basically what they're saying
with this work is that psychology, which has just been
a study of behavior in the mind, requires a bit
more connectivity to the body to actually be able to
be effective. And so what they're doing is working with coaches,
and so these people can either be psychologists, they can
(02:54):
be coaches. I actually ask them in the interview, like,
who are the types of people that come to you?
But folks that are work working with other people come
to them to be better at working with other people.
And I think it's going to be a really interesting
listen for you guys, because they are doing something that
I feel like we talk about on a more individual basis. However,
(03:15):
they're applying it in actual practicum, within an actual practice
that exists already.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
So that to me is really dope, because we do.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Have to disrupt structures in very real ways, and it
takes certain types of people to be willing to stick
their neck out and say, you know what, we're gonna
disrupt the structure in this very specific way. And sometimes
it takes, you know, only certain kind of people to
be allowed to do that, like these are two white ladies. Nonetheless,
they're again speaking from a place of a shared moral
(03:53):
and ethical vision that I think is lacking in so
many that we see with platforms. So I'm really excited
to platform here on Small Doses Podcasts. So let's get
into it, Side Effects of Intuition Small Doses podcast. We
(04:15):
are welcome today by the.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Creators, the founders. All right, the founders.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
I always feel like that just gives it a little
more oomph than like, oh, we did this thing. The
founders of the Intuitive Psychology Association, Sarah greg and Jill Ritchie.
One of you guys is an intuitive coach. One of
you guys is an author and a psychologist. And I
don't know which one of you is.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Who.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Yes, nice.
Speaker 4 (04:44):
So I'm Sarah and I have a background in psychology.
I'm a member of the British Psychological Society, and I'm
a published author.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
And I'm Jill. So that makes me the intuitive coach
bringing the intuitive coaching to the party.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
So as somebody who's been through years and years and
years of therapy, like I've done my dance with therapy,
I've had cognitive behavioral therapy, I've had a psychologist, I
have a psychiatrist. Now, I feel like I've gotten to
experience many different methods right in terms of how the
(05:22):
psychology feeled, or just even the field of mental health
as a practice is experienced.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
On this side as a patient.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
But the work you guys do is around shifting the
way the coaches show up right, And I first.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Want to know just what made you. Now.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Let me just say this, A lot of these questions
will be redundant because you've had the same questions every time.
But my audience has never heard these questions answered. So
please bear with me if it does feel a little
bit like, oh gosh, we're doing this again.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
What was missing?
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Like what was the trigger point that said, Okay, I
got to call up my intuitive friend, like we need
to get this together.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
So we have been friends for like seven years, and
we're kind of like a bit of a blend of
nerd and magic and we.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Just so you're harmony Granger, Yeah, basically, yeah, I got it.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
I'm the nerd Jills a little bit of the magic.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
And we both have been in the.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
Coaching industry for a really long time, and we were
reaching a point a couple of years ago where we
were deeply frustrated with the coaching industry.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
It's become a bit.
Speaker 4 (06:23):
Of a wild West it's become capitalized and commoditized, like
Healen has become something that we buy and has sold
us and in that process it's lost a lot of
its integrity and authenticity. And also coaching as a field
has been stuck in a lack of innovation. So coaching
traditionally we'll focus on the present and the future. So
it's very much geared around how do I change my
(06:45):
life by taking actions? And it works from the conscious
mind only, and actually, what we know in our work
to be true is that you cannot create change from
the same level of consciousness that created the problem, Like
we need to go deeper than that. And in Tuition
was something that we both worked with and we wanted
to bring something into the industry that was funded in authenticity.
(07:08):
Integrity had an evidence based approach, but also fused two
seemingly different worlds together of modern psychology and ancient wisdom.
And why in chiation is so important in this is
we have to put it in the context of the
society that we live in. And we really say in
chiation as an act of like social rebellion, and that's
because in tuition is how we unlearn the conditions that
(07:30):
have been taught to us. It's how we remember who
we were before the world told us.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Who we should be.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
And in chiation is that silent noise that through generations
and years we have been taught to silence and outsource
to logic and in this information fuelize everyone. I think
for a long time, a long time not everyone agents apart.
I think it's become really normalized. I think particularly women
(07:58):
have been taught down to like school their intuition. It's
been viewed as something because it's unknown, it doesn't fit
particularly within a western I society, and that's important to
kind of like conceptualize, right like in Western society specific,
but if we go to kind of other societies or
the tribes or their cultures, intuition is really harnessed. But
over the years it's been attacked to something that isn't
(08:20):
known and because we can't necessarily measure it or quantify it.
Because actually it leads to creativity, it leads to social change,
it's something that has been silenced and we want to
bring that back. We want people to come back to
their authenticity and know that all the answers that they
have are within And how we do that is we
created the world's first and only Intuito Psychology coach training program.
(08:43):
We train into credit coaches to the highest level in
the entire industry. We're one of only eleven in the
world to credit to that level, and we're really here
to enact change in our corner of the world through
the profession that we love, but also on that wider
societal level.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
So I want to come back to the association, but
first I want to just talk about Jill the concept
of intuition, because I feel like for a lot of
people it's more so just literally just a concept versus
like you've harnessed it as something that is like tangible, right,
that is able to be addressed, that is able to
(09:21):
be enhanced.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Where did that come from for you?
Speaker 3 (09:25):
I guess for me, And going back to sort of
your original question was how did we get in touch
with each other to create it? I was definitely someone
who I've always felt very intuitive. Again, I lost that
part of myself trying to be accepted to fit in
and again gaber Matty talks about it a lot, you know,
trading our authenticity for attachment, choosing the attachment and being accepted,
(09:49):
And where that got me was very disconnected. I'm a
mom of two young boys, and at that time my
kids were really really small. I was working a corporate job,
which I guess I was on paper, very good at,
but I was very disconnected from and trading my authenticity,
my truth, my voice. I became very sick and my
(10:12):
hair was falling out. I was kind of head to
toe and exma so autoimmune. Yeah, like literally head to toe.
I was waking up kind of mid thirties with night
sweats soaked in sweat, heart racing, and I was so
ashamed to tell anyone about it because I thought, oh,
(10:32):
my goodness, I've got this job, and everyone's going to
judge me if I say that I'm feeling stressed. And
at that point, when I was in that corporate space,
it was really looked down on you. If you ever
said I'm really kind of struggling right now, I'm feeling
a little bit emotional about this. You were overlooked, you
weren't invited to meetings, board meetings, making decisions. You were
seeing as someone who couldn't cope. So I really internalized
(10:54):
so much of that, and what I realized by internalizing that,
I got myself really really sick to the point, right,
I actually convinced myself that I was going through early
menopause rather than admit that it was stress that was
causing it. I'm like, okay, I've self diagnosed early menopause.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
That's what it was.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
Went to the doctor. And at that time as well,
my mom was going through extensive cancer treatment, so it
was a really challenging time to navigate that I was
working sixty hours a week, still trying to be the
mom that did all the things keep a house. My
story is no different from so many people. But the
doctor actually said, you know what I actually think. You know,
(11:37):
you've got anxiety. I'm going to prescribe you some antidepressants.
And at that point another layer of shame was on
that for me. I was like, oh no, and now
I feel another level of shame that I'm you know.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
I have to medicate. I can't do this by myself.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
Yeah, but they never offered me anything else. It was like,
take this medication. You know, we were going to a lot.
My mom has terminal cancer, and I thought, but I
was like, this did not feel right for me and
my body. At that point, it was like it was
as hard no, And at that point I thought, if
I take that, I'm going to have to come off
at some point, and I'm not actually getting to the
(12:12):
root cause. And I knew what the root cause deeped
down was, but I had no space to actually consider
it because I was so busy mentally, emotionally, physically. And
I actually ended up getting into meditation and I found
it on YouTube again just sort of like, Okay, I
won't tell anyone I was a closet kind of person
(12:32):
who got into meditation. Again, no one in my space
was doing it. No one was meditating. I'm from a
sort of a small town, nothing wrong with the town
that I'm from, but no one was doing that kind
of work. So I sort of started teaching myself, okay,
breathing and I couldn't even sit for ten seconds.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
I was like, oh, just being in your mind by
yourself for ten seconds was too long.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
Absolutely being in my mind with the consideration of how
I was, and I was so determined to feel better
and not to take medication unless I really had to.
I thought there's got to be a better way, and
that was my kind of pathway to being with my
emotions and understanding myself. And I did what a lot
of people. Do you know, typical journaling and asking myself
(13:18):
questions and sitting with those moments, in those pauses, And
then I hired an incredible intuitive coach who okay, what.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait, because what made
you hire an intuitive coach? Like, did you specifically look
for an intuitive coach? Because I can tell you I
don't know anybody that well, let me speak for myself.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
I didn't know there was a thing.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
Yeah, so neither did I. My Actually, my partner who
I'm still with, the father of my kids. He had
said to me, I've heard of this coach, and this
is where I feel like when we are tapped into
that space and that energy and we create those pauses,
intervention comes in. Okay, And that's what happened for me.
Those moments of me just almost that tiny pause of
(14:02):
surrender to say I need help was enough to open
that portal to go, Okay, now we have a vessel.
Now we have something to drop into you. My partner
isn't in this space, like he's not in the personal
development world. Ironically, be got me my first personal development book,
whatever works. He said, I've got this girl that I
work with that'll manage it in his work. And he's like,
(14:23):
she works with this coach, and you know she's meant
to be amazing. I didn't know she was intuitive at
that time, had never worked with a coach. Got her
and from the moment I sat with her, she asked
me the most powerful questions that triggered the life out
of me.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Do you remember any of those questions?
Speaker 3 (14:42):
Yeah, the first time I came on, I've just burst
into two yours. I was so emotional. I was so
in my head and in my narrative those thing's happened
to me, and all this stuff's happening in my life
and it's not my fall, and I'm such a victim.
And then she said, I said, you know what, I
was in my story about something and one thing she
said was why do you care what people think? And
I was like, what, I're so appended, I thought, I
(15:06):
can't believe you don't get of course I care what
people think. In the moment, I'm like, why do I care?
But her asking me that triggered me because I thought, well,
of course I care what people think. I'm supposed to
care what everyone thinks, and I'm doing all the things
and it's still not working, but her asking me that
made me realize that I was so attached to everyone's
(15:27):
opinions of how I should live and what people thought
of me, and I was living this kind of lie,
you know, with the best intentions, but I was so
disconnected from my truth and so in my head and
through time and space, we sat down and really never
worked from the conscious mind. Everything was go to the
(15:47):
part of the body, which was so new for me.
But interestingly, it was so easy for me to go
into those parts of my body. It was like my
intuition was like, hah, the calling, she's here, thankfully, and
just unpicking those parts of myself and really realizing that, wow,
I'm walking about my eyes are so open, but I'm
(16:10):
so closed off to what really matters and what's really
going on for me. And understanding myself on that deeper
level and working with her completely got me into my intuition.
And when I guess, like anyone, when you go on
that transformational journey, you don't want to gate keep it.
You want to share it with people. And that's what
I read. I actually left my corporate job, and which
(16:32):
again is another story. It was a terrifying space to
leave that because the security and the money and having
kids and a mortgage and all these things to pay.
But knowing that I had to do it.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
You could also tell your partner, this is your faults,
so you started this.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
But I believe we're all in each other's lives for
a reason, and it's just crazy. He's not into this,
but he has definitely been that person who.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Has let me get into it.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
It's funny because he's not not into he's like, I
don't know. I think we have to meet people where
they're at right, Not everyone's ready.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
No, sometimes this is enabling, that's it.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
Well, you're right, you're right. I think for me, what
I've really learned is and I used to try and
change him, right, I'd be like, ah, you know, you
need to do this thing, and you need to understand
you know, why you're like that and why you're so
angry or why you're showing up like this. And actually,
what again I learned is he's not my responsibility. I
think I took on so much responsibility for him and
(17:32):
me and Sarah and I used to talk about this.
Sarah and I have been like friends for years, and
I would come on and I'd be like, and even
you would say, you know, you assume so much responsibility, Jill,
It's not down to you. We're each responsible for me
doing my work, was responsible for me and actually what
that's done. The ripple effect of that has changed how
our relationship is communiky, how we parent. We parent differently now.
(17:56):
And I think for the intuitive piece, it's just a
lot myself to go in there to be the embodiment
of the work. I think that's really important, especially when
you're in the space, to be the embodiment of it,
to be there to teach that to others. Because we
can all read the books, we can study.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
The material, but being the embody can demonstrate it.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
It's so different and it's so needed.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
I mean, not all people, I feel like are receptive
to the demonstrating of these ideas, of these realities. But
it's like so beautiful when you see it, right, when
you see the ripple effect happen, how it just reverberates out.
The field of psychology was of course created by men
who were not interested in knowing their bodies. They're interested
(18:49):
in this is my opinion. They weren't interested in knowing
their bodies. And for what it's worth. The women who
were knowledgeable on a higher level, you know, they were vilified,
they were considered witches. You know, they were considered you know,
and actors of heresy and they.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Were literally burned at stakes.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
So you know, I feel like the work that you
guys are doing, it's really bringing back to or it's
not even bringing back to because it never had it,
but it's infiltrating a field that really has made its
mark in excising us from our bodies, excizing women also
from the conversation and the uniqueness of what we bring,
(19:25):
Like there's something unique about being able to create a
person in your body, Like that's gonna just cause different abilities.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
Yeah, and just to speak, psychology kind of made an
interest in deviation that I really feel set consciousness back significantly,
and it's what we are currently reviving and trying to
add to the field and the discipline. So Carl Jung
is like a very famous psychologist psychiatrist, and he created
depth psychology, and I would say he was very inchient,
(19:52):
Like he gave a nod to the mysticism, like he
talked about the collective unconscious. Francis von Female one of
the key figure in terms of studying initiation, and they
were really trailably as in a pass that actually enabled
us to recognize what inchiation really is. So you know,
for many people listening, you might be thinking in chiation,
as we commonly know it in our everyday lives, is
(20:13):
an intuitive nudge, right. It's that feeling that we can't
really explain or we don't really know why we feel
that way. We've got a certain sensation about a person,
a place, or a thing that like doesn't feel quite right,
or maybe feels entirely right. But that's initiation in just
like a muh way, like that's a tip of the iceberg.
That's nothing in terms of what intuition actually does. So
initiation in that forum just floods your conscious awareness. So
(20:36):
it brings it immediately into kind of like consciousness because
it has a degree of urgency to it. It's such
a strong sensation. But inchition is always present, but not
necessarily always perceived, and it lies just below the threshold
of consciousness. And what Young and Francis Vaughan and others
in the field were discovering was it was the keyed
or unconscious, so it made the unconscious conscious. And actually
(20:59):
it was a memory of the truth. That's why Francis
Vaughan described it. She was like, it is a memory
of the truth. It is untainted by societal conditions. It
is free from all of the external noise and narratives
that we absorb. Actually when why, Well, that's a bit
that we don't know, and that's a bit that makes us.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
That's the stuff that I think about every day.
Speaker 4 (21:20):
Yeah, because you can scan my body and find my intuition. Right,
there has to be this awareness And I don't think
that we should vilify it because it's a bit warrior,
we don't understand it. There has to be an acceptance
in we know it to be true because we have
the direct experience of it. We know that we have
our intuition in some capacity. You felt it, and so
(21:43):
the question becomes not do we have it? But the
more important question, I feel is why do we lose it?
Why do we lose it? How do we come into
this world? We've got epigenetics and a lot of stuff
and ancestral baggage, you know, and all of that that
we're carrying. But somehow in that process we internalize and
we stop asking ourselves what is true? We start asking ourselves.
(22:05):
Who do I need to be in order to feel
safe in this world?
Speaker 1 (22:08):
What even is this world?
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Like?
Speaker 2 (22:11):
That's the other part, Like when you start really getting.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Into the deep deep of it, You're like, are we here?
How did we get here? What is all this?
Speaker 4 (22:21):
Like?
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Sometimes I'm like, is intuition really that I've already lived
this life once and I'm living it again? And basically
I already know the mistakes that happened last time, and
so I already know how to save myself from that because,
let me tell y'all, every single time I ignore my intuition,
(22:42):
I'm like, God damn it. And it's like I feel
like I'm in a groundhog day, Like I always end
up on the right path. Yeah, so it's like the
path is always there, but it's like, yeah, but did
I really have to waste three years?
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (22:56):
Intuition is a remember and of what you know to
be true. And I actually think, like that example of
am I here, Like how many different past lives actually think? Well,
I don't think I know this to be true. Most
of us are operating from an unconscious place, like ninety
five percent of our behavior. It's literally that you're.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Want to say, sty five percent of people that was
like a great yes, agreed.
Speaker 4 (23:15):
Yes, but it's just on the same loop and pattern.
So you know, even if you look back through like
the past year of your life, the past two, you
can see the same patterns. Like I say it in
my own life. You know, I read through my journals
and I'm like, Jesus, it is exhausting to be me.
I'm reading the same stuff that I wrote, like yes,
(23:37):
so so I do think it's that, but I think
it continually comes. I think the danger is, like what
are we looking for? We're often chasing the destination and
the bit of life. It should be a reward within itself,
like the experience is the reward. I love these deep
conversations where we're like really figuring it out, but ultimately,
I think the bit that we all come back to
(23:57):
is like the bits that are important are did I
live a life that was really true to me? Was
I my full self? I think so many people, especially
women right now, I have this deep desire to be
seen and heard. I think most people want to be
seen and heard and understood and loved for who they
are in the world. And I truly believe, like I
truly believe that entition is part of that solution.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Would you say so?
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Doctor Tima Tima s Bryant is somebody who I really admire.
She's the president of the Psychologists Association.
Speaker 4 (24:27):
Of what is the Actual Yeah, Apa apa, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
And so she wrote this article in October of the
year you guys founded the association, and the title of
the article is psychologists must embrace the colonial psychology. To
advance as a field, we must recognize the importance of
cultural humility, advocacy, and embodied healing.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
And this is in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
So I wanted to hear just how you guys respond
to that and how your work either aligns or doesn't
with that thinking.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
Yeah, I think it does aligne massively in terms of
so much. But I want to talk to the part
around the embodiment of the healing. And you guys have
talked a lot there around feeling certain things and going
against your intuition. Any time, like when I was at
my worst point in my life, it was because massively
there was a lot going on externally that I was
(25:18):
massively disconnected to my intuition. I knew that I shouldn't
be in that role, that I was in in the work.
I knew that I should have left that years ago.
I knew I should have been having conversations that I
wasn't having. But again, my fear of rejection, not being accepted,
being pushed out of the gang, or whatever that was
(25:40):
was so big that I was sacrificing my connection to self,
my deeper purpose because I wanted to fit in. But
as a byproduct of that, and I see it, we
see it happen in time again, people get sacked. There's
so much around autoimmune disorders. There is so much happening
in people's body, and the body is always communicating with
(26:02):
us all the time. When we train our coaches, they
have to go through rigorous training and it's a six
month intensive training, but they are coach. We have a
suite of thirty four techniques and we work with the past,
the present, and the future. So we have this shadow
alchemy method and we take our coaches through this training
(26:23):
and they do have to go into the shadow work.
It is working deeply with the unconscious and some of
that is uncomfortable. But what we do is we want
to move them through so that it creates space so
that they are their medicine, they can be with those
parts of themselves instead of continually outsourcing. We're seeing it
all the time, outsource, outsource, outsourcer answers, where does that
(26:45):
get us? More things, more grades, more of this, more money,
more objects. Again keeps us disconnected from ourselves. The key
is how do we when we train people, how do
we bring our clients and the clients that are coach
work with. The goal is to bring them back to authenticity,
back to intuition, back to essence. It's not about outsourcing
(27:07):
that whatever they achieve in their life is a byproduct
of being more tapped in and tuned into their intuition.
So they have to be the embodiment of the work.
They have to work through their own staff. And by
the way, it's important to say it's never a one
and done, like you don't come and train with us
in Wow boom, I'm so haled, I'm never triggered again,
Like we still get triggered. We've done a lot of
(27:29):
this work. You know, we're human beings, we're living in
a human world. We're experiencing a lot. There is a
lot going on in the world right now. To say
that you're never going to be triggered is a lie.
But if we can play our part in bringing people
back to intuition, to truth, to authenticity, we believe that
better humans create better worlds, and that is one of
(27:51):
our bigger missions is to take this work out to
the world and to have that ripple impact, ripple effect
to change.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
So can you actually answer the question? I asked?
Speaker 3 (28:05):
Oh, sorry, yeah, would you mind just repeating it? Like,
is that okay?
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Because I want to know to just be frank, you're
two white women, Yeah, so you exist in a particular
place of privilege, right, and that when you talk about
like the shadow work that is done in that process, right,
I'm curious to know, like, what are examples of shadow
work that you feel like has presented itself, because I
feel like it would align with what doctor Cima S.
(28:34):
Bryant is talking about here in terms of decolonizing psychology,
because if we're getting to our authentic selves, so many
of us in the world just don't want to acknowledge
certain privileges, Like for instance, I live in the United States,
and I've had to be very honest with myself that
regardless of it, if I am against the imperialism of
the United States.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Regardless of if I.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Am against the Zionism of the United States and it's
complicity and genocide, I am still so complicit by nature
of being in the United States, of paying taxes that
get utilized for this, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
I am still also having to.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Admit that being in the United States as a black person,
even though I am simultaneously a victim of oppression, of discrimination,
of racism, etc. I have also been a part of
an overarching system that perpetuates.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
That across the globe.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
And that shadow work is something that I had to
really face in order to be my full authentic self
and in order to be honest about my capabilities to
challenge that right.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
But I know to your point, that's not easy work
to do.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
But it speaks to the decolonization of my place in
this world. But as a psychologist, like, where do you
feel the decolonializing of psychology aligns with the work that
you guys are doing.
Speaker 4 (29:53):
I feel like it's part of the process, and I
think there has to be the acknowledgement of privileg of
the unconscious bias that enters research and research work, and
how when new modalities are created, they're created from a
place of privilege and from a place of your own
lived experience. And I think that is why you have
to be the embodiment of the work, because what we're
talking about, and what I hear from your example is
(30:15):
is the move away from hyper individualized healing, like a
move away from this is my map of the world,
and therefore it should fit yours. And actually it's something deeper,
because I think hyperindividualized healing psychology, you know, as a
science traditionally white, traditionally males, traditionally funded increasingly just by
budgets that have a degree of bias in it, a
(30:37):
lack of innovation in the field. We know, even I
have had examples from people in the field who have
told me confidentially that they have had research that has
been conducted that has shown things like esp like extrasensory perception,
that has shown things that challenge this cause and effect society,
this materialist world that we live in, and it's been
squashed down and they've been told that they cannot publish
(30:59):
it otherwise their reputations will be at risk, and it's
been held back by the universities that they work for.
So if that's just a snippet of what we know
to be true. We need to acknowledge that within society,
and we need to get out of this place of
hyper individualized healing where we heal from a place of
what does this get for me? And a place of
privilege and actually go that level and layer deeper and go, Okay,
(31:23):
first of all, I've got to heal myself first, right,
I've got to trudge through that layer. But then comes
to the next one, and that's the more important one.
The next one is like place in my individual experience
within the societal context that I live in. And that's
what I hear you say. And it's almost like unlayering
some shame around that. It's having uncomfortable conversations around that.
We are absolutely two white women that have grown up
(31:46):
in a Western society with our own individualized experience, but
we cannot speak to particular cultures, particular other lived experiences.
And we have to acknowledge that because otherwise your work
doesn't have nuance and it doesn't have depth, and it
doesn't apply to the collective in a way. And I
think that level deeper. The deeper that you go, the
more actually you're able to challenge the societal noise that exists,
(32:09):
the societal conditions that are being created. And as you
get to your truth, then you start pushing back against
the prison that you have been trapped in and you
look at the lies and you question and you go, actually,
why is that true? And the healing has to come first, right,
because you've got to have the courage to have those conversations.
And when you're scared of being ostracized, when you're scared
(32:31):
of not fitting in, when you're scared of not being
interruth with yourself, then you cannot speak from that place.
But we have a job to do that. I'd say
we're in the process of doing that. I don't think
that we're polished or perfect at it. I still think
that we've got a lot to learn on it.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
I don't think anyone ever will.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
Yeah, but we acknowledge that.
Speaker 4 (32:48):
And I think psychology, in fact, insert any other discipline
system has so much to learn from that process.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
I mean, it feels very v for Vendetta.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
It's very like we're going to strip you down to
make you able to see the real deals.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
That you can actually fight.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
The real enemy that you have been tricked to think
is yourself, which right, Like the concept of intuition as
different from feeling. Can you speak to that, Jill, because
I think there's something very basic that Like when you're
in therapy, they'll ask like, but.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
How do you feel? You know, how do you feel?
Speaker 2 (33:24):
But I don't think, Like I've had therapists ask that question,
but they don't mean intuition, right, Like they just mean
like are you sad?
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Like did it frustrate you?
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Like it's more so like I don't know, like feelings
words versus like body, like.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
How did this affect yourselves?
Speaker 2 (33:38):
You know?
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (33:40):
And that's the thing because most people are I feel
like shit cross Like That's the thing of what we
really understood was when we started to bring this work
into the space rather than coaching with eyes open, because
it's like, how do you feel?
Speaker 4 (33:56):
Well?
Speaker 3 (33:56):
Honestly, like sometimes it's like, well, how should I answer
this when the eye are open? We're like, actually, most
of our coaching, most of our sessions that we do
our eyes closed because it allows us to come out
of the personal think in mind. We don't do questions
with eyes open. We deeply regulate someone's nervous system where
it feels safe enough for them. We bring them in
(34:17):
and we take them through a process to drop them
out of the mind and into the body, and then
we ask a question. We say to our guys all
the time. If I ask a question, they'll give me
an answer. Then I take them into a deeper state.
I ask that question completely different. It's a felt sense,
it's a bodily sense. It's like, oh, you know. And
we start working with metaphors. It's singular words. You're not
(34:41):
in the story and when your eyes are closed, you're
not looking for the cues. Is this the right answer?
I'm not looking for validation. I'm in my own world,
within a world. When I'm in that body, I'm able
to see what I can't see with my eyes open.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
What type of psychologists come to you all, like, what
do you feel like? Is the tipping point for them
to say, you know what, it's time I have to
get myself over to the intuitive psychology association.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
This isn't where I need to be anymore.
Speaker 4 (35:11):
So we train a range of people from a range
of discipline. So we'll have new coaches that come and
train with us who have no previous experience, but have
often done a level of their own work where it's
like they want to go deeper with themselves. They recognize
the importance of working with the unconscious. Like we've used
this quote all the time from young you know, until
we make the unconscious conscious, it will rule our life
(35:32):
and we will call it fate. So they really recognize
that on some intuitive level that wait.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
Wait, wait, say one more time, say one more time,
say it one more time, say one more time.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (35:42):
So, until we make the unconscious conscious, it will rule
our life and we will call it fate.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Until we make the unconscious conscious, it will rule our
life and we will call it fate.
Speaker 4 (35:52):
Okay, because we feel like we don't have any other possibilities.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
We're just on autopilot.
Speaker 4 (35:57):
So we'll have people that come from kind of thing,
from fitness coach, from a premiership football team to actually
CEOs of large commercial banks have come and trained with us.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
That feels dangerous.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
Yeah, no, they are the most.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Do they go back to the bank.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
I feel like after you do the coaching, you're like,
I can't be in this bank anymore.
Speaker 4 (36:16):
One of them is bringing it into the banking system.
She is like a trial blazer our house of a female.
She is excellent and so we attract in these change makers,
these people who really want to enact change, or holistic
healers or coaching spoken word.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
We've spoken word artists.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Yeah, intuition is not a given.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
We don't have a typical or someone from a corporate
or No.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
I just assumed it was all people that are in
the actual psychology field that are coaching, you know, for
the purpose of therapy.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
So this is fascinating.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
Yeah, this is the.
Speaker 4 (36:53):
Beauty of it because psychology is a protected term, do
you know, So you've got to go through the degrees
and you've got to have like a membership body and
all of that, so you know, you don't come out
as a psychologist, but you come out as an inituite
of psychology coach. And honestly, the psychology aspect is one
part of it, I really do believe, even though that's
my field and my discipline and I love it, it's
often just a portal. It's safety, it's a little bit
(37:15):
of evidence that makes someone trust in the mystical. So
it's this fusion of modern psychology and incient wisdom that
really creates something that is transformative, like for the clients.
So it's a range of different people, different disciplines, but
they all share the same values. They want to create
change within their lives and the lives of others, and
they want to do it in a way that feels
(37:36):
highly ethical. Like we are one of eleven in the
world to credit to the level that we train at.
We are governed by our own professional body, the Association
for Coaching. They are ethical, but they want to do
the deep work. But they don't just want like an
Instagram certificate. They don't want to do an online course
so they don't embody it. They want to really know
that they can bring this work into the world with
(37:58):
like full confidence. So that's generally who come to work
with us, and we have incredible Like one of our students,
she was a holistic energy healer. When she first joined,
she was like, I don't like the psychology bit, Like
I don't trust it, I don't like it. I was like,
let's gill, let's just see how you get on because
it's just the study of human behavior, but it's wrapped
in a bit of science. And actually she is now
going on to do her master's in psychology. Yeah, so yeah,
(38:22):
fascinating And on the flip side, the same thing We
have corporate people that come who literally, when we say
closer in their eyes get them into that deep intuitive
state because when the nervous system is relaxed and we
bring purposely, we activate intuition, so they're in an intuitive
state where literally your intuition is on fire. It's bringing
everything forward. We have corporate people that come and train
(38:44):
with us and they can't even close their eyes down
whenever they first come because they're so in the logical mind.
So it's a wild ride for us. Like we love this.
We love watching their transformations and then what they go
and kind of do in the world afterwards is just
amazing to witness. It renews our faith in humanity. Often
(39:05):
you're from Northern Ireland.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
Yeah, how has being from where you guys are respectively
from played a role in this path for you?
Speaker 1 (39:14):
You mentioned mysticism.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
You know, I know that that is a very big
part of Ireland that was very strongly squashed, Like we
get veries from Ireland, and you know, just the culture
of Ireland was actively attempted to be completely discarded as
well as in Scotland. So I would love to hear
from you guys just about how your own histories as
(39:39):
humans that are, you know, living in a legacy, if
at all, has it played a role in your connectivity
to intuition and to mysticism as a necessary practice in
creating a more ethical world?
Speaker 4 (39:51):
Yeah, definitely. So I grew up in Belfast. I'm what
they call a child of the end of the Troubles.
So I grew up when there was active trouble. My
skull was frequently evacuated for bomb scares. I had army
men who sat with you know, rifles in my front garden.
My mom would make them cups of tea. I've sadly
known people who have been murdered through the process of
(40:12):
the troubles, and very much like the culture that I
identify with was something that was wrapped in like a
layer of shame, especially for the generations like like went before,
you know, they felt like they had to fit in.
But interestingly, my mom's so my great grammy, she was
a fortune teller, So she was like a traveling like gypsy. Basically,
(40:34):
I don't think we're allowed to call them that.
Speaker 5 (40:36):
Yeah, no, hermon I mean, you know in.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
Picky blinders, romany gypsy.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
Yeah, romeny. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (40:52):
And she used to earn a living through taro, but
she'd learned taro with the playing cards, and she passed
that down to my mom, and so my mom would
do her tarot cards but with playing cards. My house
was deeply intuitive. Like my mom and my auntie would
be very into the spirit world. Their houses were frequently haunted.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
Ye you know that, right, this is where he's from,
Like they live in Ingham, but this is the yes, Okay.
Speaker 4 (41:22):
Yeah, it was very like that. Like there was a
lot of I guess what you would call kind of
like superstition, but on reflection, they were definitely like spiritual practices.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
They just call it superstition to try to undermine its relevance.
Speaker 4 (41:34):
But yeah, so I grew up with that, but I
think I didn't fully lean into it because of my
own upbringing and background. I grew up in a very
chaotic household where there was a lot of violence and
turbulence and a lot of things that I didn't understand,
and so this felt like maybe another thing that I
couldn't fully trust, And so I definitely leaned in to
(41:54):
psychology as a way to understand human behavior in logic
to what I was experiencing. And so I leant into
that world and I think fill honestly, for a while,
like I lost that part of myself, you know, because
I went to into the scientific rigor ofen all and
like the cause and effect, and then it wasn't until
(42:16):
like later years where I started to come back to that.
I think there's been an unraveling within our own kind
of cultural history about the Irish language revival, the work
we've talked about Naycap, like the work that Naycap were
doing being able to give a voice to maybe a
lot of the cultural things that we lost, and so
there's been a coming back to that. And then I
(42:36):
feel like there's a resurgence of that. I notice it
in Ireland when I go home, like people are more
connected to the land, Like younger people are embracing it.
They're in the forest.
Speaker 3 (42:45):
They're in the forest. Yeah, they're in the fall.
Speaker 4 (42:47):
About the forest, all about the forest, right, the fairies
live there. So there's a real nod to that, and
I think we need that. Yes, so yes, it definitely
formed part of me. But I think that that lodge
kind of scientific and the spiritual is probably how those
two things came together for me on a personal level.
Speaker 3 (43:05):
Can I just jump in here, I think as well,
for you, Sarah, what we were talking about earlier, doing
your own personal work allowed that to really come forward
to release, you know, Sarah, taking that sort of personal
going right, I need to do my own work. I
need to be the embodiment of this allowed you to
then go, I can talk about this now, and I
(43:26):
feel building enough safety within your body. You know, we
were talking about the safety if we don't feel speak
we don't want to speak up because it's like ah,
But actually you doing that work has allowed you to
really understand all of those parts, put it together, release
certain parts, hold and nurture those parts, and create so
much safety for you to bring this and have this
(43:46):
voice and to speak about it now as well.
Speaker 4 (43:49):
I think like even like maybe five years ago, I
would have struggled with a conversation like this because it
wouldn't have been fully to in the line, and I
would have felt like uncomfortable and maybe not uncomfortable with
how those parts kind of fit together. But I think
that's a reflection of the polarity of the world that
we live in. You know, it's an either or rather
than a yes, and and I think this merge of
(44:11):
kind of the science and the spirituality, like you get
to have both, and I think like that's the beautiful
aspect of it. But definitely like I would have struggled
with that before because fear of judgment, you know, fear
of kind of like, yeah, being shunned from a discipline
that values just scientific rigor. And I don't know if
Jill you want to speak to anything else on your
(44:31):
kind of experience Scotland.
Speaker 3 (44:35):
I never had that experience that Sina had, you know,
in Belfast. And I guess for me, my family or
my grandparents were Christian, went to church. Grandad was a
church elder, good people. I went to Sunday school a
few times as a kid, you know, I used to
hate that boss used to come and pick me and
(44:55):
my sister off. It was a Sunday. I was like, Mom,
I wanted to just play with my toys.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
We're still going to school.
Speaker 3 (45:02):
All the kids are on the bus. Did you know what.
I just used to go into my own little world.
I never really absorbed a lot of it, to be honest.
My school report was always Jills in our own little world,
at my fantasy world of you know, heads in the clouds,
and that was so much judgment you know, I was
never really the academic kid that sat and really loved
(45:23):
learning and.
Speaker 1 (45:24):
Studying academic rigor.
Speaker 3 (45:27):
I was much more. I loved art, I loved drawing.
I loved writing and creating things and making things up
and being super creative in that space. But I never
kind of fitted in because I was always our heads
always in the clouds. But I never My household was
you know, it was just my mum, my sister, and I.
My dad left before I was born. They separated and
(45:50):
back then nineteen eighty when I was born, and I
do not look that up.
Speaker 1 (45:54):
We're all the same. Yeah, I'm forty four, anyone.
Speaker 3 (45:57):
So nineteen eighty I was born and everyone so georgy.
My mum was a single mom bringing up two girls.
My mom had three jobs, and everyone judged. I'm like,
why are we judging the women here?
Speaker 1 (46:08):
Like is that help me judge?
Speaker 4 (46:10):
Me?
Speaker 3 (46:11):
Know, I'm like, what's going on? But I was brought
up to be such a strong woman because it was
just like females, you know what I mean. But that
played a massive part in my life because that I'm
so grateful to my mom, who was such a nurturer,
for having that beautiful experience with her, but it did
play a part in my life of never trusting men
(46:33):
and you know like that well, like I'm coming for you,
you want to sit up with men. It was definitely
an issue for me growing up and having that kind
of they're not safe, it's not safe to let them in.
And again just going back to doing that work for
myself and understanding why I was having these repeated patterns
in my life and in relationships. You know, all great
(46:55):
at the start and then I'm like always looking for
my eggs at how do I exit this relationship? Where's
my where's my door? To just escape this space because
it never ever felt safe and I feel like never
having like what Sada's experienced. But different again, we all
experience different things. I had a lovely childhood. I never
felt like I missed out not having a dad. I
(47:15):
would rather have a solid mum than a toxic relationship
where I God, I can't imagine what my life would
be like by both my parents have passed. We were
talking about this coming in the car house like that
to say it this morning driving and I'm like, I'm
an actual orphan. My mom passed away. Sadly, that was
(47:36):
such a hard hard time for us when my dad
passed away two years before my mom. But I imagine
what my life would be like and that's why I
feel like, you know, but I feel Jill is very
kind of like just to put into context, like, Jill's
very in touch with like Scotland and the roots.
Speaker 4 (47:53):
So she lives in a town just outside of Edinburgh
and she'll walk up onto the null, onto the hill
with her drum and she plays and sings on the hill,
which I love.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
So you're literally going to be taken back in time
and highlander Like, why not?
Speaker 3 (48:07):
Literally I do? I take the drum up. I'll sit
up there with my cackau and my drum and I'll
chant and people. That's the funny. You're right, that connection
to nature, to earth, to my heritage. My grandparents were
from there, so there is that real connection to there
when I'm able to drop in. But people must walk
past with their dogs and think what because it's not
(48:29):
really the dumb thing. I'm like, well weird, they're probably
a bit of a weirdo.
Speaker 2 (48:35):
You're the town, which that's I have a friend that
I do with and she's the two of us are
kind of virtue together with.
Speaker 3 (48:43):
Our potions and all that said. Like, I actually read
a book a few months ago about which is from
Edinburgh and Scotland and how they were burned at the
stake and it was actually, oh my goodness, I was
in tears feeling the pain of these women, how they
were treated for just being deeply connected to intuition right
(49:05):
literally to actually have.
Speaker 1 (49:07):
The knowing herbs that can heal people exactly.
Speaker 3 (49:10):
Honestly, it was heartbreaking reading this book and really brings
me back to us and what we do and to
try and get into it. I said, at our small
part in the world, if we can make an impact
and we can bring people back to this, you know,
we're not going to be burned at the stake anymore.
But here the thing is when we drop into that.
I've been in deep processes when it's ancestral and it's
(49:33):
like this isn't mine, this is a great great great grandparent,
and I've felt that emotion and that sadness and that grief,
and I believe that if we can create that change
and create new pathways for people to tap back into that,
then that's what we're here for.
Speaker 2 (49:51):
So well, we're going to go to my special Patreon
only segment, and I want to ask you guys sit
take us through just a short version of what is
the way that you get people to drop in? So
are we down for that?
Speaker 3 (50:07):
Yes? We all are?
Speaker 1 (50:08):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (50:09):
All right, y'all join us over at the Seale Squad
at Patreon and we are here with the Intuitive Psychology Associations. Sarah, which,
by the way, you pronounce Sarah so differently than Americans,
like you say Sira and I was like, cool, her
name is Siah and I was like, I did not
see that. I'm like, no, it is Sarah. Okay, okay,
(50:31):
Seira and Jill. So we're gonna go with Sarah and Jill,
which is hell on the iron cane sound. So we'll
be open there and Patreon y'all. The last, So where
(50:53):
do you do the training? How does the training happen?
Speaker 4 (50:56):
So in terms of training with us, So we facilitate
all of our training online, so we have a global community.
We've got graduates and students who are in America, also
Hong Kong, Europe, so we're a very global organization. So
the training is online. It's six months. We only take
two cohorts per year and we limit our cohorts to
(51:17):
twenty five a maximum of twenty five per cohort because
for us, this is about a personalized learning experience. This
isn't about profit, it's not about taking your money and
wizzey through. It's about being deeply in integrity and training
the next generation of change makers who will go and
enact incredible change within the world. So we train exceptional
(51:37):
coaches and we really pride ourselves on that is.
Speaker 1 (51:40):
It as a group or is it individual sessions.
Speaker 4 (51:43):
As a group, So they'll do six months training. Some
modules are online and then we have a live coach
and mastery calls that are hosted by myself in jail.
And they're very practical, so they'll practice the techniques, they
get live observation feedback. But also in the most important
part for us is they are coach throughout the six months,
so they go on their own coaching journey, they peer
(52:04):
coach each other, so it's personally and professionally transformative. Like
without fail, every student that graduates with us uses the
same term that it was a life change, in like
they are a different person at the end of it,
and we want them to be because we don't want
to train to your point of the unconscious bias. We
want all of that unconscious to be made conscious as
(52:26):
much as we can. Like it's an ever evolven journey,
so it's an in depth training program, but we design
it for busy lives, so we've got a lot of
entrepreneurs that come and train with us, people with busy schedules.
And you can find out more on our website, which
is Intuitive hyphen Psychology dot com. You can check us
out on Instagram at we dot r dot IPA. You'll
(52:47):
see lots of testimonials from our students, like their shared experience.
You can see the work that they're doing in the world.
You can get to know us a little bit more.
And if you want to really start exploring your intuition,
like maybe this has sparked the idea maybe you want
to be a coach. You don't want to be a coach,
but maybe you're like, I want to work with my intuition.
Then we have a free resource called the Question Method,
(53:07):
and it's twenty two questions that are normally reserved for
coaches in training, but you can download it. You can
journal because journaling is also an incredible way to access
your intuition through that free flow writing. It gets you
out of the conscious mind, so it kind of closing
down your eyes feels a bit too much, or you
don't have the resources to work with a coach right now.
By the way, we always are looking for case studies
as well, So if anyone can't afford coaching, or if
(53:30):
that feels out of reach for them and they'd like
to be a case study, please reach out to us
and we'll keep your name on file. You can access
that coaching but that free resource is available as well,
and we'll give you the link and if you can
drop it in the show notes, that will be great.
But we'd love to hear from anyone who's connected with
this episode and feels inspired to be part of that change,
to work with intuition and blend these worlds and really
(53:51):
take coaching specifically as an industry and a profession into
the future.
Speaker 2 (53:56):
Thank you all so much, incredible, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 3 (54:01):
Oh no
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