Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Small help from small small human areas small and it's
so funky.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Welcome to small loses.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Yeah man, yeah, you are in an accents because today
we go into the Caribbean.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Big up, lage up all my cab massive way.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
We are joined today by Feudal Compton of Noyah, Caribbean
on Instagram. And I love this page because I was
learned so much on this page about not just Grenada,
but of the Caribbean in general, and I've been able
to share that knowledge with you' all. Like I didn't
know about, you know, the joking that they were doing
in Belize until I had learned about it on her page.
(00:52):
What I love about this page also is that it
helps to dispel this homogenized mindset or wrong the Caribbean.
You know that it's just a better set of islands
of people doing winding up and cannibal and smoking marijuana
and ganja and ding and ding, and that is just
not the case. And the beauty that is also located
in the Caribbean is also not solely committed to the
(01:14):
islands in the Caribbean Sea, and it is not solely
committed to just the beach. There's a whole other level
of eco tourism and.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Just ecosystem happening.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
We are so lucky to have Fiona with us there,
because Fiona is a bastion of information and knowledge and
a real carib cistern, and she is so generous with
how she does constantly look to find new information to
share with the people. And so I had reached out
to her because she had put up a post and
(01:45):
she was like confused because all these people was in
a comment saying that there was no such thing as
slavery as the Transatlantic slave trade and that that had
not really happened. And she was like, but this is
very confusing. I never hear about this before. And I
was like, you know, I need you to come on
the show so you could talk about it. So we're
gonna get into that because you know, there's all kind
of diaspora war around slaveryting. All slavery in the United
(02:07):
States wasn't as had as slavery in the Caribbean, and
vice versa. All the slaves in the United States never
got free, but we is free all of this stupidness.
So we're gonna really get to the bottom of that
because I find there's a lot of diaspora was especially
exacerbated during this immigration thing that this man, this stupidy
(02:27):
man have going on. And when I went on so
wrong did and I look dead in the camera and
I said, I don't want nobody from not from the
United States talking about what it is to be a
black American in the United States.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
I meant every word of that, but I will.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Also add I don't want nobody in the United States
that is not from these individual places in the diaspora
to be talking and undermining the existence of the cultures
and the individuals that are from.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
There as well.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
There has to be a shared newt will respect in
our diasporic Pan Africanism. We and so that is what
Fiona one hundred percent personifies and exists as in her
walk and in her poor son.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
So let me get into it.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
No side effects on the crimean diaspa. All right, y'all
very excited to welcome Fiona Compton to the podcast and
get our real Caribbean thing on.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
You know, I have my.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Grenada flag right here, and by the way, as we're recording,
Grenada is in the thick of Carnival and people keep
dming me and sending me messages like why aren't you in Grenada?
I thought you were Grenadian. I'm like, what is I
don't go to Cannival. That's not my thing. That doesn't
mean I'm not Grenadian. It's a lot of people and
I don't drink, So that's that.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Yeah, And I feel like as if that's the only
word to identify of our culture. So if cannibal that
my Caribbean carriage, we've worked yeh.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
That's I mean, it's jupid.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
So all right, the Caribbean aspra. So first of all,
can you just give people, We're.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Gonna get real basic here.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
What comprises the Caribbean islands, like and you have to.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Say all the islands, but yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Give people a region, and you know, because I feel
like there's some places that they're like, wait, I didn't know.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Right, Okay, So we'll first and foremost thank you for
having me. And it's nice to have this conversation with you. Okay.
So the Caribbean, it has its bloodlines, right, So if
you're looking at the archipelago of islands in between North
and South America adjacent to Central America, we have to
look at things we have, yes, things that are geographically
(04:49):
in the Caribbean where the Caribbean Sea touches you and whatever.
But then also looking at countries that have Caribbean cultures.
So if you're looking at their parts of Costa Rica
that have very strong Caribbean communities, they are parts of
Columbia and Venezuela. And of course when then Guyana, which
is part of South America has the headquarters of carricorn
(05:10):
which is the Caribbean Community, which is a conglomerate of
Caribbean countries creating a single market economy. Then we also
have Belize and then people say, well, if you're going
to say believes, well then why not on Dudahs and
this is where things become blood. But then again on
Dudahs has a very strong Caribbean community. So yes, we
are not just the islands. We are also countries in
(05:33):
South and Central America that consider themselves part of the
Caribbean community.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Would you also say that part of it also is
because the British colonized some of these places, and so
there's a shared culture that sprung up out of that
at all.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Yes, absolutely, So for example, Central America has a huge
Garifuna community who are a Garifuna people long story shot,
the indigenous people and the state Africans mixed former tribe
called it Garifuna on the island of Saint Vincent. Basically,
they're busting the British ass. The British souped in and
the a whole big genocide. Then rounded up the survivors
(06:14):
and shipped them off to Central America where it was
less than five thousand because many of them were murdered
or died along the way. But they have now flourished
to a community of almost one million people. So this
is what you find Honduras.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
They're in Guatemala, like, they have a town in Belize
called Hopkins that is exactly like the source of you know,
they have like a garafoona day.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
It's a whole thing.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Yes, and then if they consider Saint Vincent their homeland,
So are you going to say the people are not Caribbean. Yes,
they have their Garifuna identity that is very Central American based,
but still the roots of them are are Caribbean, right,
so you know, then Belize again, it's a whole other
mishmash of communities all together. So yes, definitely, colonialism has
(07:02):
shaped those identities of people who identify themselves as Caribbean people.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Where do you put Panama?
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Because when I first came to New York and I
went to the Caribbean Day Parade and I saw Panama,
I was like.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Well, how are you reach here?
Speaker 1 (07:14):
But there them folks were like, well, you know because
a lot of Caribbean people went to Panama to help
build the canal.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Yes, so I would put Panama and is I think
that the issue is not Panaminians. I think the issue
is us. We haven't had enough direct conversations with Panama
because Panama is like, yeah, yeah, they listen to like
Caribbean music. A lot of them are multi linguals, so
they'll be speaking English, they'll be speaking Spanish, you know.
Then they will have their own Panamanian dialects that are
(07:44):
heavily based on Caribbean dialects, so they may associate themselves
alongside their Panamanian identity with us. It's we that are
not educated enough about them. That's why I feel like, so,
what you're doing in your Auntie you are like Latinos
or something like that, right right, Like what you're made
like my grandfather's Jamaica we're talking about. So yes, I
(08:06):
think the issues that's not them got you.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
So there's all these conversations called the diaspora wars right
where you see the tensions that are sprung up between
folks from the continent of Africa and Black Americans and
folks in the Caribbean. And I wanted to do this
episode to also just dispel the concept that.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
The Caribbean is just one place.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Right. It's the same way that they look at Africa
as if it's a country. Yes, I feel as though
people a lot of times look at the Caribbean.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Also as it is a country.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
So I wanted to just talk about how multiculturalism exists
within the Caribbean and how you also work on Noya
Caribbean to help grow this knowledge.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Okay, So I mean I started a platform from that
very same frustration because I was studying Antiga, right Saint Lucia.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Here from seeing okay, okay, the Patons.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
So I was studying in London. I was studying art
and photography at the time, and I was bombarded by
Jamaicans like you Jamaican and Jamaica is a Jamaica and
whatever I say, ao, yeah, hard, hard, I mean it's
changing a lot now, it's changed a lot, okay, because
I find London would have a bit more.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
They try awareness of just all these different islands.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
They try. But the thing is, remember, okay, so when
I was there, when I moved there, I moved there
in ninety nine. Now two things were happening. One, you
found that a lot of the West Africans were pretending
to be Black Americans, so hey, man, what's up, I'm
from La Man, what's your name? And like it used
to be a whole thing. And then you'd also find
(09:46):
other Cariban people trying to be Jamaican because those were
the time about this that was cool and it was
like cool. Right, So then we've come out of that.
So now you can see West Africans are super proud
and like everyone's like, yeah, I from said, Vincent from
this and whatever. But at the time when I was there,
it was bad and I was super frustrated. So I'm like, yo,
(10:07):
I going to dedicate like my entire career to telling
our stories because we're not, as you said, We're not
one thing. And then also when you look at like
the Caribbean, right, okay, the number one spoken language is
not English. English is number three. Like it's Spanish. Yeah,
if you're looking in terms of numbers, it's Spanish first
(10:27):
and then Quayole because when you look at Haiti, yes,
there's Haiti, Sir Lucia, Mathnik, Guadaloupe, Dominica, and he has
some parts of Grenada, some parts of Trinida. We all
speak Quao. So when you look at like in terms
of numbers, Quail is the second most spoken language. Zenn
Sen English. They really look at population, Jamaica's five We
(10:52):
are cubes, you know.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
They there's really to this day.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
My mother is.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Seventy eight and I had a cat center.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Here and my mother was here when I was going
and the catheter came and the cat said to my mother,
oh are you Jamaican, And of course this Grenadian woman
went off.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
I am not Jamaican.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Going to realize that they are that Jamaica, Yes, yes, still,
and I mean and it's no dis to Jamaica, and
it's no disam at.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
All at all. I love Jamaica. And I think even
Jamaicans still get stereotyped. And you know, the caricatures of
them on TV are terrible ninety nine of the time.
So even that it's not throwing shape it's like wanting
to define our own identity. So it's like Jamaica's number five.
It's like Cuba first hated Deer, Puerto Rico, then Jamaican
(11:46):
in terms of population. So even in terms of us
being like more collective in our conversations of how diverse
we are, and you know, the languages that we speak.
We have Dutch, we are papimental, like quel, we have
so much.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
But what was that second one?
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Papiamental? What is that? So that is basically a mixture
of Dutch, Spanish English. It's spoken by people in Kuasau,
Aruba born air. Yes, it's their own language and it
has been around for centuries.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Papiamento.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Yes, yes, are you listening?
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Yeah, I said today I'm learning watch. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
I did you know when you look at all genres
of music like I one time I put like a
post and like, name a genre of Caribbean music that's
not soca, danceaul or reggae, and I got like maybe
about two hundred different genres of music. Really, yeah, man,
So it was so illuminating for me too.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Well, let's name three. Okay, let's name three. Besides okay,
we said reggae. Yes, we said soca. What was the
other one? You said dance danceau Okay, So I'm reggae
soca dancer Okay, so I'm gonna throw in ska okay, yes,
calypso yes.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Can I say parang?
Speaker 3 (12:57):
Yeah, because parang stems from South America and it's not Yeah,
it's this on gene music, Okay, Yeah, salsa, salsa, bachata,
like there's so much.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Yes, because you know, so often I feel like the
Latin countries are forgotten as a part of the Caribbean,
but they are a massive part of the Caribbean. So yeah,
I mean Bad Bunny is Caribbean music.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Yes he is, Yes, he is, and very like I
love what he's doing. I love what he's doing, and
I relate so much with what he's doing, and I
love like all the different nuances that he's putting in
and I relate to it, even like the visuals that
he's had on the album, like I'll be driving through Senusha,
I'm like, yeah, that's that's Bad Bunny's album piece right there.
You know. So just because we're separated by language, that
(13:42):
doesn't maybe not separated by the story.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Mm hmmm, mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
So Okay, we talk about the language, we talk about
the music. Where do you feel like people are missing
the mark when it comes to Caribbean people, if at all?
Speaker 3 (14:07):
I think, I mean this is where you started? Where
do you start? I think one of my frustrations is
that we are treated as servants now Caribing people. We
have to put our hands up to this. Right. So
if we're looking at how our carnival has changed so much,
right because we're like Carnivorus, everybody, come everybody, and then
(14:29):
people are cosplaying the things that they see us doing
on Instagram and whatever. And then we like to be
super welcoming. Everybody can come to a coca Yeah, man,
come through, come through. And so because TV showing us
as these happy Islanders, yes, and everybody welcome. We happy
in Calypso music and this and that. And then it's
(14:49):
like people's engagement with Caribban people are through consumption. I
am going to consume your sexuality. I'm going to consume
your food and your music, oh and your pretty landscapes.
So it's never about let me can I know about
you a little bit more? So you went through some
of those same things. Why do y'all do Kinniva. Oh,
(15:10):
that's why all job job people just be dragging a
chain because it's okay, Yes, I can definitely relate to that.
Those conversations don't happen. It's like, consume all the nice
things and then that's it. So we are kind of
like just shocking and driving access service people. Yeah, just
come and take out nice things. Yeah, and that's it.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Yeah. And I feel like it makes a false chasm
between particularly Black Americans and Caribbean people, right because it
suggests that we're so far apart from each other, when
there are so many similarities that are shared, Like when
we talk about slavery. I see now under one of
your posts there was people saying, well, you know, slavery
(15:51):
never happened. And I was just blown away because they
and they were saying, you know, slavery never happened. You know,
we were prisoners of war, and we were indigenous to
the United States, et cetera, et cetera, which, by the way,
would completely disregard slavery taking place throughout the entire Caribbean
and South America. So how do you think all those
black people got to Brazil?
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Yeah? Now, you see when I get comments like this,
you come to mind because I got time today blocked
and blessed because I realize there needs to be an
official track by the way, please because I'll pay and
download it. Make it marrying tone. It makes me sad
(16:35):
because I have to sometimes take a step back and
think about in terms of the roots of us. Why
why right? Why? Because you find a lot of people
are ashamed to be associated with the legacy of Savory
and there's this narrative that we all descended from kings
and queens, and Okay, there is a lot of pain
and trauma that's associated with Savory, and people don't want
(16:55):
to think about their history in that way. And I
understand that when I try to think about is let
us reshape how we think about Savior. It's not something
to be ashamed of or about to understand the pin
but understand that we come from survivors, and that we
come from so much resilience and so much beauty, and
it's nothing to be ashamed of. So when people come
(17:16):
in with this eurasure. So there's these groups, for example,
like FBA, who are the foundation of Black Americans and
aid US, who are the American descendants of Savory.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
And I say you know what, who, by the way,
love to tell me I'm not black?
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. So I say,
let me try and understand them a little bit more
because they love to come for me. But then the
thing is, are those people who are just taking derivatives
are the people who started a movement and kind of
convoluting it and whatever, or are these people like doing
it from an authentic space work? What do they represent?
So you know, I went on their websites and net
(17:51):
read up and the FBAs are saying that they are
a combination of and State Africans who liberated themselves in
fifteen twenty, and some of them are descendants of that,
and some are descendants of State Africans, and they want
to create a clear identity that is entirely African American,
so it does not include immigrants Black immigrants and aos
(18:15):
is of the same thread. So when you look at
the FBA flag, they have the things where they celebrate
the different rebellions that happen on American soil. They have
the three stars that represent the three threads of blackness,
which are Aboriginal blacks and say black people, and there's
a third one. There's a third, I think it's free
ones or maroons. I think with something like that, okay,
(18:38):
and it's great and has olive branches to show our
connections and the fast grapes. So fundamentally I would support
something like that. But then they're like, no immigrants, they
have nothing to do with us, and I that's.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
The part for me that is the problem because it's
not true.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
Yes, and so I'm like, but okay, I understand that
you want to create your identity and some people surmpowering
and beautiful and I'm all for it, but again it's
just adding to the diancepora was again because when I
look at historically, when I look at our Caribbean people,
and the African American story is so intertwined in such
(19:15):
a beautiful way, like yo, we was all up in
the sauce together, all up in the sauce. My family
was contacted by a professor who's writing a book and
she's telling me that my great great uncle from Saint Vincent,
who left Saint Vincent when a volcano erupted and moved
to the US, was like Homeboys with Harriet Tubman like.
He interviewed her and I'm like, what are you made yes.
(19:36):
So it's like looking at like people like Sto click
on Michael, who's from Trinidad, who popularized the term black power.
When you look at Maya Angelo doing Calypso music, like
you know, Malcolm X's mothers from Gredata like this stuff.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
It's like, how can Marco Starvey, who created the red, black,
and Green flag that so many associate with the black
identity in the United States, are separate from being American. Yes,
and so I'm like Harryserman's Underground Railroad continued into the Bahamas,
like Matty the King wrote that I have a dream
speech in the Bahamas. He also said he feels like
(20:12):
a human being when he's in Jamaica because he's reconnecting
to his humanity in Jamaica.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
So like, and that's like one of a million stories.
It's going back back to what my uncle was homies
with Duboa as well wo because here's a whole next
podcast episode.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
There were Haitians that were brought in to fight in
the Revolutionary War.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Yes, it's looking at the Hall and Renaissance as well.
We don't have to fight, but we did this and
then we did that. It's like we're very interconnected. So
going back to the savery never existed thing, it comes
from shame, and I blame the US education system. Right,
I'm not even talking about now, I'm talking about how
they present the narrative of savery. I'm talking about the
(20:56):
lack of education. And I will say it's for Caribbean
people to hm how we do not know the African
American story properly. We know Beatty, we know Beatty, Beatty
and Gitty.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
I went to Haiti and I was with my friend
and her cousin's little girlfriend was like, she's like twenty.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
And she was like, can you teach me how to
talk like a black girl? And we're both like, what
do you mean?
Speaker 3 (21:24):
Yeah, what does that mean? You know?
Speaker 1 (21:26):
I want to talk like a like a Black American girl.
And we're like, like, we're Black American, we're talking right now.
And she was like no, you know, like I don't
know who you're talking to. You need to watch yes,
and she was like, you know, I watched Love and
Hip Hop and we were like noah, yeah, very distressing.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
The other day. So my sister lives in Orleans, so
I'm always there. I love it there. And one of
my little drivers. He said, away from the Caribbean. I say, yeah,
he's from And he said, why do you all hate us?
I say, uh, Alice, he said, yeah, why do y'all
hate us? It's like anytime I go online, I see
Caribbean people talking really despargingly about Black Americans and I said,
(22:12):
you know, I don't, but you have to realize that
we are victims of the same stereotypes and caricatures that
you are frustrated about and how you are represented in
mainstream media. This is the mainstream media we are sent.
So we are under the impression that African Americans are uneducated,
they ghetto, they always tell the drugs, they always have gunzi.
(22:32):
This is that, And we have a very reductive outlook
on your because that is what American media has shown us.
So then we come up to the US with this
predisposing we're not going to be like them, because we're
just going to be good carrying people and put our
head down and work because that's what Pember and father
told me to do. And we're going to separate ourselves
(22:54):
from that narrative.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Which is also a colonial thing exactly that.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
So it's were going to separate ourselves and we not
like them. So you find a lot of Cariban parents,
it don't be like them, don't be like them. And
then so we have this sometimes an Ebb superiority because
of that colonial mindset, because we two are very uneducated
about Black American history.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
I have a real problem with when I hear Caribbean
people talk about Black Americans disparagingly and they want to
make false equivalencies. Right, you know, there's such a very
unique experience of being black in America. It's not the
same as being black in England. It's not the same
as being black in Russia. It's a very particular thing,
(23:43):
and it is something that even a lot of Black
Americans can't even explain.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
Right.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
It's like it's a feeling a lot of times more
than we are able to because we too have been
stripped of our history.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
We too have been stripped of our own knowledge.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Like so many of us us don't really really really
get to learn our full history unless we pursue it
when we go to college. Yeah, Like I know that
I didn't really know black history until I got to college,
and then I became obsessed because it was like, oh
my gosh, I'm finding this treasure that has been hidden
from me this whole time.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
And I feel like I'm actually.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Going through a whole other phase of that now in
my forties, where I am discovering a whole other level
of you know, Black radicals around socialism and Marxism and
really learning about the abolitionist movement and Frederick Douglass like
these were names, but really understanding on a higher deeper
level about just how Black people were using force. Like
(24:41):
there's this really good book We Refuse that's all about
just different ways black people have resisted usaying yes, but
also like it's not just like violence, like resisting with joy,
resisting with leaving, and then there's like force. And so
a friend of mine from Great she was actually in Tennessee,
(25:03):
and she had went to Tennessee for like a tourism thing,
and while she was at this convention, all of a sudden,
Donald Trump was now slated to show up to this convention, right,
And she said, Amanda, the whole energy, the air, the
vibe of the convention just switch. It just shifts up,
(25:27):
because all of a sudden, all these people start showing
up that are Trumpers and the MAGA and all of that.
And she said very quickly, we realize, well, we're really
the only black people here. And she said, you know
before it wasn't something I really had noticed. When they
(25:49):
really start coming and you're really sad to see come safe,
and she said for the first time, she said, you know,
I hear you all the time talking about the difference
between the United States as a black person and being
in Grenader as a black person.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
And she said, I gotta tell you, that was the
first time that I really She was like, it's.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Not like I never believe you, but I got to
experience and feel it.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Yes, in that moment of like, oh this is.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
What she means, I think, yes.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
In the same time, I my sister was doing a
workplacement there, and my mom and my sister went to
see her. And my moms can be very white person,
but my sister is she's much more brown skin and
things like that. There's no big uty with my she's black, right,
And then so we going. They went into this restaurant
and it's like you walk in and you go around
(26:40):
to make your owner and whatever, and my sister is
like to my mother, keep walking, keep walking because she's
just like it was like in the movies like as
if you know when the records cratch and everyone just
and I think carrying people. We don't realize our privilege.
We are very dismissive of the black American experience as
(27:00):
have a chep on your shoulder, I need to just
keep your head down and just walk. And it's like, yo,
we grew up having black teachers, black politicians, black leaders,
black doctors, black dentists, black, everybody black. And not to
say we don't have colorism, classism, exact versions of racism
in the Caribbean, but we are very privileged that we
can walk in anywhere and with a majority ninety nine
(27:23):
point ninety nine nine nine nine percent of the time.
So we have a certain sense of security that don't
matter what we still Home is home even if we leave.
Home is home. But for me coming to the US,
like when I go to New Orleans, I love there,
been in like fifteen times. My partner's from there, and
I will be there Annualans is like seventy percent black,
(27:45):
and I feel like I love it. But in some
places i'll be there, I'll just see the American flag.
I'll be like, yo, it just feels heavier like it
don't fit there because it doesn't feel Neuoraliss doesn't feel
American to me because their.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Culture is yeah, it's another country, right right.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
My Pardner, he says that, he says, I'm not American,
I'm from New Orleans, and I'm like, yeah, I feel
you on that. So seeing the presence of the American
flag someon as it mixed me like how does one
feel when they see that flag? This is where you're
from this way? You know you're from this way, your
family from your parents, your grandparents, everything like your lineage.
And then you have this thing like I have the
privilege of looking at my flag and feeling proud of it.
(28:24):
What doesn't if you're looking at your flag and feeling
oppressed by it.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
It's interesting you say that because I was driving to
New Jersey the other day and when I was going
to the beach and when I got to the beach town,
they just had rows and rows of American flags all
up and down the street. And I just kind of
froze because I remember I had gone on a date
with a guy and he had picked me up, and
(28:47):
you know how all Caribbean people in Brooklyn would have
like the flag on the head rest.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Yes, like that was a real thing. For a long time.
He had American.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Flags on the headrest and it was a black man.
Now he's a black American guy, you know, and I
was like.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Why have American flags on the headrest? Yes, it's an
American and I said, yes.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
And but also it's because I feel when you are
black American, it's an asterisk. Like we are quote unquote
American just by default in the sense that we're here
and there was a war, and instead of honoring us
as our unique selves, it was like, well, we're just
(29:27):
going to kind of like fold you into this American identity.
We're not even going to give you the full rights
of that American identity. Yes, And so I find myself
now really trying to kind of encourage people to look,
it's funny because the FBA and the ATOS I don't
completely disagree with the concept of identifying a unique Black
(29:48):
American indigeneity, right, Like, there is a very unique identity
that was created within this nation for black people. However,
part of that involves Caribbean, but it involved Caribbean and
involves Mexican. You know. Part of the uniqueness of that
is the fact that we are part of a melting
pot because America itself is colonizers. And so when I
(30:09):
see the American flag, my thing now is are you
black or are you American?
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Because you can't be both. Yeah, because at.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
This point now, like when we're looking at Israel and
the connections of the United States to Israel and what
they're doing in Palestine, and then we start to understand
how the United States has really just destabilized all of
these countries all over the world, and the CIA killed
all these black leaders, and it killed all of these
folks here in the United States in.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
The name of America. I am like, I don't want
to be associated with that.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
Yeah, And it is becoming more and more common knowledge
the things that they're doing. But I mean, even if
said that's a side, right, even if you just look
at it's common knowledge now like all of these people
like Abraham Lincoln wasn't done for black people, like they
were saying, like, you know, looking at all the Declaration
of Independence, yon know that didn't include you, all right,
So I agree, it's like what makes you black and American?
(31:05):
And what ideals of American ness are you holding onto?
What is it that makes you proud to have that flag.
Why do you feel what makes you feel connected to
that flag to want to have it and put it
in your bio and say that you are that. Make
a new flag like YO make a new flags. They
make like the how they have you know, the African
American national anthem, like create a different space. But I
don't understand how there can be a connection to that
(31:27):
flag when the people who are oppress in my family,
my own people, are waving that same flag. We can't
be in the same room together.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Where we got tricked, Like I have a whole thesis
about this listening. I have a whole thesis about how
like Black American people are a unique form of indigenuity,
but we didn't get to connect to the land, so
our bodies had to be the soil. So we ourselves
have had to be the soil that we're connected to,
and that means that we're not really connected to like
we're not rooted right, we're moving or wrong, We've had to.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Be displaced, etc.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
We're imprisoned, and our bodies have been colonized in the
same way that we have seen indigenous land be colonized,
in the way that it is poisoned and the way
that it is stolen, in the way that it is commodified,
et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
And because we haven't been able to be like rooted.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
To our own land in mass we have been more
susceptible to the colonizing also of our minds. And so
a lot of what is holding black people back in
the United States from being able to connect to each
other and be rooted in each other is the quest
for that which was denied us, which is capitalism. And
(32:41):
you know, seeing that as like the pinnacle of freedom
and liberation, this idea that having money and access to
power is really what liberation is, is actually what American
culture stands on. American culture is it's not life liberty
and the pursuit of happiness. In American culture, life liberty
(33:03):
and the pursuit of happiness. The sentence continues, life liberty
and the pursuit of happiness is being rich.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
There's money, yeah, is money? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (33:12):
Geat money?
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Yes. Whereas I feel like, and tell me what you
think about this, but I feel like in the Islands.
Don't get me wrong.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Of course, there's power hungry people, this corruption, of course,
but I feel the connection to nature and the connection
to the land is still at the root of the
people in driving US as a people, what would you
say to that one percent?
Speaker 3 (33:37):
You know, the thing is with the African American experience
when you think about it, my friends who are African American,
I find you're let's move around a lot. Yeah, like, yeah,
I live in in distate, my parents in Tallahassee, but
I live in Upsol, like and it's so very yeah,
you know, and but it's very transient, right, One thing
(33:58):
I learned about in America and understanding the differences between
the US experience and the Caribbean experiences. Hollywood shows us
all of these big plantations in the US and things
like that, but it was less than one percent of
plantations in the US had over fifty people, right, So
the plantations were more like smaller farms wearing which in
(34:20):
these societies, black people were the minority. And so even
with the twelve million and safe Africans that were trafficked
across the USA received between four and six percent, so
that's a very small amount, but their both rates were hire.
So more onset people were born on American soil in
a community where they are the minority. So therefore it
was easier in order to control and strip away their identities.
(34:43):
So that's why we find like in the Caribbean, like
we have a lot more cultural things, big things like
you know, Carnival and this and that. We do a
lot more things that feel more broadly African because we
had larger plantations, so it was harder for them to
colonize and go into each of our minds. And then
also sugar was more deadly, so we had a higher turnover.
(35:05):
So the average life span of an ensay puts in
the Caribbean was three to nine years, so we always
had that constant influx of new African blood coming in.
But that's not to say that the American experiences Savie
was not horrible. It was just horrible in a different way.
So this is why you will find those kind of
things different between us. Also, when you're talking about our
(35:29):
connection to land, Saint Lucia, for example, it's two hundred
and thirty eight square miles, so my family and all
of our families, yes, you'll find something may go to
different islands and things like that, but fundamentally home is home.
Our land is our land, and we're able to purchase
land bit by bit learning the American experience, it was
much harder for them to buy land, and you had
(35:50):
the sharecropping thing where they got screwed over and put
into debt even more so there's a stronger disconnect to
the land.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Right.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
So when my partner came down to Sanusha the other
day for the first time, he's like, y'all know so
much about nature because we'd be like, yeah, we take
that that live, then make some tea when you're buried
in New Year Man, that's good for us. Like he's like,
yahya o, so much like so, yes, we do have
that connection with nature because we're not going to just
move to another state, drive across state lines for a
(36:18):
better opportunity.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
You have to know your place because that's where you're at.
Speaker 3 (36:22):
Yes, that's where you are. That's where you are. And
we did have not like the easiest ride, but it
was because they're up and left. They left us. It's
like your country. Now ya can buy the land. We're
able to buy land, and so we have a lot
more land ownership. So we build our houses, which is big. Yeah,
that's huge.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
Yes, And let me just say this, y'all, it's not
huge because oh, now I own something. It's huge because
there is something supernatural. There is something spiritual about land,
like the land itself is yours, and it's not I'm
not looking at it on a monetary level. I'm looking
at it as when you really do have your own
(37:03):
land and you're able to put your feet in it,
and you're able to find home in it, and you're
able to grow food that you eat from it, and
you're able to you know, it really is a different experience.
And let me tell you in the States, that is
not how the States things are. Land by and large,
ot tell you because.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
You the day are watching people yard in the US
and they have like some people have like a good
sized yard, right, and I'm like, why don't put like
an apple tree or a little avocado tree, Like why
are not like growing stuff like Caribbean yards. They'll have
a bonana tree, deer, somebody growing dashing deer. Then they
have a bay leaf tree there for you to make tea.
(37:42):
Then they have a breadfruit tree there in the black
like and it's yes, I agree. They don't see land
in that way. People will have it be decorative with flowers,
and we do too.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
And even when we do it. It is still functional, yes,
and it's enrichment, you know.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
It's not just ornamental, you know, because like my mother
has like a really expansive garden in the backyard at
this point. And even though she's not necessarily growing fruit
and things. She's grown pepper before, we've grown oranges before,
but like she's grown scotch bonnet before.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
I have to, you have to.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
But her garden is not just a matter of ornamental,
like it's also like enriching to her spirit to work
in the garden, you know. Like I mean, she's seventy
eight and she looks maybe sixty two, and a lot
of that, I know is because she's oh there in
the garden and she's work in the garden, and the
garden is working.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
Her, yes, And I think we don't see it as oppressive,
And I think, I don't know, it's just something that's
like part of the family.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
I find I never thought, no, you're just sorry, and
not to cut you, because I just never thought it,
like as I'm saying it to you, as if I've
thought of this before, but I just hadn't really thought
of that really big delineation in that there is something
that for a lot of black Americans. I think is
a matter of like, no, i don't want to have
to grow on my land because I'm not like I'm
(39:03):
not picking cotton anymore. Like it has like maybe it
has a shame to some folks.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
Yeah, no, I think so. And I think also because
like people dies, my father land, my granny leave that
land for me. Yes, so it has that emotional connection
to it as well. But like my sister, she lives
in Florida, she bought a house of a husband. Hey,
first thing, mango treat so cherry treat so avocado treat
(39:30):
so like she was, like, it's sick.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
She did, so you know, it's just love it. So wait,
can you speak about the maroons? Well, yes, and many
kinds of maruns, but yes, which ones?
Speaker 2 (39:43):
Okay, okay, okay.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
So we're gonna go to the Patreon only segment and
if you're curious, well, what is a maroon?
Speaker 3 (39:50):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (39:50):
A maroon is a fighter.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
Yes, So we're gonna get into that in the Patreon
only segment with our guests. Few on the contents. So
come and see us at the Seal Squad, y'all. Well,
I guess my last question. I would love to hear
from you about is what would you say as a
Caribbean person is a big misperception about the Caribbean islands
(40:16):
as they exist, about the people of the Caribbean because
for instance, like not just language, but even accents.
Speaker 3 (40:24):
Okay, so yeah, okay, let me ask you. Okay, I
don't know how much TV you watch a lot?
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Okay asassant amount.
Speaker 3 (40:32):
Okay, So between the Golden Age and the nineties to now,
how do you think our accents have been represented on TV?
Have you seen an improvement?
Speaker 1 (40:41):
I will say that I literally just started watching this
show called like Washington Brown, I think Washington Black. And
that is honestly the first time that I watched the
show and said they funk a real Caribbean accent. This
is an actual Caribbean accent because and I noticed it
because when the woman sided speaking, I.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
Didn't jolt.
Speaker 3 (41:07):
Your breath like please yeah, because.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
You know, typically it's all Sebastian the Crab song.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
Then you know, like when you think about the Macon
Bob sled team and you know, cool runnings and running.
For those of y'all who are not Caribbean, we are
so used to hearing this like generic. It sounds insulting
and it doesn't represent any Caribbean accent.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
It's not like, oh they keep doing a Jamaican accent. No,
no one in the Caribbean sounds like that, Like who's
that's supposed to be.
Speaker 3 (41:36):
I'm like, who's that? Like?
Speaker 1 (41:37):
I do? Yeah. I remember one time going to a
concert the Glow and the Dark Tour, and when we
were leaving, my homeboy was like.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
You know Rihanna, I mean her English is so good.
Speaker 3 (41:49):
Okay, y fun fact, Barbados has the fourth highest literal
CeREES in the world, Okay, and it lowered.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
I think it used to actually be like the number one,
like Barbie just used to have like the ninety person
literacy rates something crazy. Because a friend of mine has
been going down there to help bring the literacy rate back.
Speaker 3 (42:06):
Up, imagine, and it's like number four still and they're like,
this is number four good enough?
Speaker 2 (42:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
So when it comes to like cuisine, you know, is
it rice and peace or peace and rice?
Speaker 3 (42:23):
Are you trying to make me make?
Speaker 1 (42:24):
Now?
Speaker 3 (42:25):
I know it as rice and peace. Same, I know
it as rice and peace. But I mean, I think
to answer your question, the biggest misconception is is that
we all Jamaican, right, and that we're all the same.
And I think the misconception, I think is just because
we just don't have enough conversations, right, like I.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
Feel wait, wait, wait, let me let me stop you
because I want to rephrase my question. Yeah, okay, what
are some unique Can you name some very unique aspects
of different islands in the Caribbean for folks, because I
know that like people think Carnival all.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
Is the same, I think Caribbean food is all.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
Like people think your chicken is eaten throughout the whole Caribbean, Whereas,
to be quite honest, I have never had drunk chicken
in Grenada.
Speaker 3 (43:08):
I had your chicken when I was up on eighteen
because a Jamaica mon to send Lucian YadA is the
joke pits. But I was I was like, what's that?
Speaker 1 (43:16):
Yes? Yeah, So can you just point out for folks,
like some like unique things that dot the Caribbean landscape
that kind of gives some uniqueness to these different islands,
Like I'll name one.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
I'll name one.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
So Barbados is not a volcanic island. Yes, Barbados is
a coral island cot and so its landscape is very
different than other islands. So you might go to Barbados
and have one experience, but it is not representative of
Grenado or Dominica or Saint Lucia or Antigua, which are
volcanic islands and they are much more lush and green
(43:50):
and monktinous and have rainforests, whereas Barbados is very flat,
yes and dry, yes and dry. And have you ever
noticed I'm not a big fan of Barbadoes and the.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
Beach is very rocky. I still have.
Speaker 1 (44:04):
I never found a sand bottom beach in Barbados, but
that is a different story.
Speaker 3 (44:08):
I love Beijeans, but I like bush, so I don't
know if I can live in Barbadoes like I like bush,
I like Lunsia, like green. My father was a farmer,
so yeah, I like bush. One of the things I
will say is that the perception that like, for example,
all our carnivals are the same. So this year and
last year I did carnival in two Friends speaking countries,
(44:29):
so one in Martnique and the one in Guadlup. So
last year when we went to Guadloup, it's a lot
of live drumming, and one of the things that I
saw all of these women drumming. They had women baby
strapped to us. So when she had big drum bang
bang and you're blowing kongshell and yeah, and I was
like this is amazing. They're like, you think this is
something you need to go to Quadroop. So I went
to Guadloup this year and they marching. They're not whining
(44:51):
nobody whining on nobody. They marching and they drumming and
they blowing kongk shell and like even though there's still
departments of France, so they still colonized by France. They
use the euro and they get, you know, certain things
from France and whatever. They burn fire in France all
the time, so they have like they like their trans
are like yo, we speak queyl, I don't speak French,
(45:13):
and but it's super spiritual, Like they burn incense to
clearway bad spirits. The incense comes from a tree bag
that's from the indigenous peoples. They do masquerade to honor
the first people, to honor African peoples. They have certain
protocols of things that are very spiritual where they don't
take pictures of videos and it's very intentional, so it's
(45:34):
very different to what we see, like you know, girl
skin out wear string on the road. It's very, very different.
So yeah, so you know it's this possession that every
Caribbean experience is going to be the same depending on
the country that you go to. I mean, look at
Grenada and job like vastly different to the pretty pretty,
pretty pretty like.
Speaker 1 (45:53):
Job is intentionally yes, yes, yes, And I think also
intern intentional grunge.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
And you know, people who are listening, you know, would you.
Speaker 3 (46:03):
Say I said, they're trying to be pretty for anybody?
Speaker 1 (46:06):
No, job jab is about putting black on your body
and you're waking the spirits of the formerly enslaved coming
back to fight and to haunt these colonizers.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
And you know, Grenada is a very revolutionary country.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
Like Grenada, Grenada people don't really play as we would
say in Grenada.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
We ain't easier.
Speaker 1 (46:25):
So that's why people are like, why is a Manda
like this? I'm like, you don't understand where I'm from. Yeah,
you all really have a bag on the flag with
spicy man, we have spicy Island.
Speaker 3 (46:39):
I think that revolution really played a major role in
Grenadian identity and the way you are so proud, and
I think just unwaveringly so in comparison to some other
Caribbean ands, at atle bit more malleable, I find Grenadians
are like, hey, you're a Grenadia. You know, I'm not
trying to benover backwards. So nobody.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
And it's become even more like every Independence day the
whole island paints the island red, yellow and green, and
it really is nice because and then every year you
start to see new you know, there'll be new murals,
and you know, the murals will have like either the
coat of arms or it may have the actual shape
of the island with something design in it, et cetera.
(47:19):
Then they had like a whole big, big big mural
with all of like the sea creatures. And you know,
I'm really happy to start seeing Grenada start leaning back
into agriculture and you know, leaning back into the land
because that is really what's going to fortify us. It's
not going to be hotels. And that would actually be
my last question to you. How do you feel like
(47:40):
tourism at this point is either helping or hurting the Caribbean.
Speaker 3 (47:45):
Yeah, I think we have an overdependency on it, and
COVID taught us that, and you know, looking at how
we are willing to risk our own health to accommodate
Taurus because that is our bread and butter. I think
that was very illuminating for us. And yes, we even
though we still have this connection to the land, I
still think that we are having this first of all,
(48:05):
disconnect because of course now we're on Instagram. I'm seeing
so and so is enjoying themselves and popping this and that,
and me going walk the land. Me I want to
go and work in a nice office job and seeing
or manage like a nice hotel and whatever. Yeah, so
a lot of us are disconnecting from the land, and
so our food import bill and then having to accommodate
(48:26):
these foreign tastes because tourists they want strawberries and they
want continental breakfast, and they want this or whatever, and
then it's like, you know, so it is to me
a huge detriment, and I think if we don't do
it properly, there's a way to keep a balance, Like
you know, Dominica. Dominica was the last island to be
colonized because it's super mountainous and they had their maroons
and they had indigenous people. Is a very island of
(48:48):
extreme resistance. But extreme just green. Dominica is free, like
it is beautiful. You know, they do eco tourism, so
you know, it's keeping that balance and doing things correctly.
But you know, for example, it now feeling like a plug.
But like I don't know going to ask this question,
but it's that's why I started the Caribbean Green Book
(49:09):
because when I found out the statistic that seventy to
eighty percent of total accommodation is foreign owned. So that
means so Insan ninety cents of every dollar spent in
San Nusha in tourism leaves the country, eighty eight cents
of every dollar spent in Jamaica leaves the country. It
means Jamaicans only received twelve percent of the revenue. And
then it's also then it's worth sector of Jamaicans as well,
(49:31):
because that's when we enter classism. So we started, my
co founder and I Will started the Caribbean Green Book
to have a database of only locally owned businesses across
the Caribbean so that people can come to the Caribbean
intentionally I want to stay at this locally owned place,
this locally owned restaurant, this locally on tour operator. Because
if it is that we cannot. I cannot expect the
(49:53):
governments to collect do like for example, for Antigua, ninety
five percent of their revenue comes from tourism because their life,
it's very trying to kind of grows, so it's harder
for them to tap into agriculture. And so when they
don't have rivers, because you're like Barbados or Coral Island,
so I cannot say, well, y'all need to have been
doing tourist some thing or that, but doing it in
(50:13):
a way where the money actually comes and we can
stay owning the land and doing it differently because we're
just being recolonized right now.
Speaker 2 (50:22):
Yeah, the last well, there y'all have it. That was
a quick Caribbean one oh one lesson.
Speaker 3 (50:40):
We did.
Speaker 2 (50:40):
I'm very proud of this episode.
Speaker 1 (50:42):
This was long overdue fore you on a long overdue
and I'm so glad we were able to make this happen.
Make sure to follow Know your Caribbean on Instagram. You're
gonna get so much information. And I feel like, even
though I was raised in a Caribbean home, your page
has taught me so much beyond just what I learned,
(51:05):
you know, from going to Grenada.
Speaker 2 (51:06):
And being a Caribbean person, so that to me is
like the one you know.
Speaker 1 (51:11):
I can't stand Zuckerberg, but I appreciate that there are
spaces like yours that actually use the Internet for good
to educate. So y'all know what to do, and thank
you once again, and big up paud Garrot myself
Small help from small small human areas small and it's
so funky.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Welcome to small loses.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Yeah man, yeah, you are in an accents because today
we go into the Caribbean.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Big up, lage up all my cab massive way.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
We are joined today by Feudal Compton of Noyah, Caribbean
on Instagram. And I love this page because I was
learned so much on this page about not just Grenada,
but of the Caribbean in general, and I've been able
to share that knowledge with you' all. Like I didn't
know about, you know, the joking that they were doing
in Belize until I had learned about it on her page.
(00:52):
What I love about this page also is that it
helps to dispel this homogenized mindset or wrong the Caribbean.
You know that it's just a better set of islands
of people doing winding up and cannibal and smoking marijuana
and ganja and ding and ding, and that is just
not the case. And the beauty that is also located
in the Caribbean is also not solely committed to the
(01:14):
islands in the Caribbean Sea, and it is not solely
committed to just the beach. There's a whole other level
of eco tourism and.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Just ecosystem happening.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
We are so lucky to have Fiona with us there,
because Fiona is a bastion of information and knowledge and
a real carib cistern, and she is so generous with
how she does constantly look to find new information to
share with the people. And so I had reached out
to her because she had put up a post and
(01:45):
she was like confused because all these people was in
a comment saying that there was no such thing as
slavery as the Transatlantic slave trade and that that had
not really happened. And she was like, but this is
very confusing. I never hear about this before. And I
was like, you know, I need you to come on
the show so you could talk about it. So we're
gonna get into that because you know, there's all kind
of diaspora war around slaveryting. All slavery in the United
(02:07):
States wasn't as had as slavery in the Caribbean, and
vice versa. All the slaves in the United States never
got free, but we is free all of this stupidness.
So we're gonna really get to the bottom of that
because I find there's a lot of diaspora was especially
exacerbated during this immigration thing that this man, this stupidy
(02:27):
man have going on. And when I went on so
wrong did and I look dead in the camera and
I said, I don't want nobody from not from the
United States talking about what it is to be a
black American in the United States.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
I meant every word of that, but I will.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Also add I don't want nobody in the United States
that is not from these individual places in the diaspora
to be talking and undermining the existence of the cultures
and the individuals that are from.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
There as well.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
There has to be a shared newt will respect in
our diasporic Pan Africanism. We and so that is what
Fiona one hundred percent personifies and exists as in her
walk and in her poor son.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
So let me get into it.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
No side effects on the crimean diaspa. All right, y'all
very excited to welcome Fiona Compton to the podcast and
get our real Caribbean thing on.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
You know, I have my.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Grenada flag right here, and by the way, as we're recording,
Grenada is in the thick of Carnival and people keep
dming me and sending me messages like why aren't you in Grenada?
I thought you were Grenadian. I'm like, what is I
don't go to Cannival. That's not my thing. That doesn't
mean I'm not Grenadian. It's a lot of people and
I don't drink, So that's that.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Yeah, And I feel like as if that's the only
word to identify of our culture. So if cannibal that
my Caribbean carriage, we've worked yeh.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
That's I mean, it's jupid.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
So all right, the Caribbean aspra. So first of all,
can you just give people, We're.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Gonna get real basic here.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
What comprises the Caribbean islands, like and you have to.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Say all the islands, but yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Give people a region, and you know, because I feel
like there's some places that they're like, wait, I didn't know.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Right, Okay, So we'll first and foremost thank you for
having me. And it's nice to have this conversation with you. Okay.
So the Caribbean, it has its bloodlines, right, So if
you're looking at the archipelago of islands in between North
and South America adjacent to Central America, we have to
look at things we have, yes, things that are geographically
(04:49):
in the Caribbean where the Caribbean Sea touches you and whatever.
But then also looking at countries that have Caribbean cultures.
So if you're looking at their parts of Costa Rica
that have very strong Caribbean communities, they are parts of
Columbia and Venezuela. And of course when then Guyana, which
is part of South America has the headquarters of carricorn
(05:10):
which is the Caribbean Community, which is a conglomerate of
Caribbean countries creating a single market economy. Then we also
have Belize and then people say, well, if you're going
to say believes, well then why not on Dudahs and
this is where things become blood. But then again on
Dudahs has a very strong Caribbean community. So yes, we
are not just the islands. We are also countries in
(05:33):
South and Central America that consider themselves part of the
Caribbean community.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Would you also say that part of it also is
because the British colonized some of these places, and so
there's a shared culture that sprung up out of that
at all.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Yes, absolutely, So for example, Central America has a huge
Garifuna community who are a Garifuna people long story shot,
the indigenous people and the state Africans mixed former tribe
called it Garifuna on the island of Saint Vincent. Basically,
they're busting the British ass. The British souped in and
the a whole big genocide. Then rounded up the survivors
(06:14):
and shipped them off to Central America where it was
less than five thousand because many of them were murdered
or died along the way. But they have now flourished
to a community of almost one million people. So this
is what you find Honduras.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
They're in Guatemala, like, they have a town in Belize
called Hopkins that is exactly like the source of you know,
they have like a garafoona day.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
It's a whole thing.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Yes, and then if they consider Saint Vincent their homeland,
So are you going to say the people are not Caribbean. Yes,
they have their Garifuna identity that is very Central American based,
but still the roots of them are are Caribbean, right,
so you know, then Belize again, it's a whole other
mishmash of communities all together. So yes, definitely, colonialism has
(07:02):
shaped those identities of people who identify themselves as Caribbean people.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Where do you put Panama?
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Because when I first came to New York and I
went to the Caribbean Day Parade and I saw Panama,
I was like.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Well, how are you reach here?
Speaker 1 (07:14):
But there them folks were like, well, you know because
a lot of Caribbean people went to Panama to help
build the canal.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Yes, so I would put Panama and is I think
that the issue is not Panaminians. I think the issue
is us. We haven't had enough direct conversations with Panama
because Panama is like, yeah, yeah, they listen to like
Caribbean music. A lot of them are multi linguals, so
they'll be speaking English, they'll be speaking Spanish, you know.
Then they will have their own Panamanian dialects that are
(07:44):
heavily based on Caribbean dialects, so they may associate themselves
alongside their Panamanian identity with us. It's we that are
not educated enough about them. That's why I feel like, so,
what you're doing in your Auntie you are like Latinos
or something like that, right right, Like what you're made
like my grandfather's Jamaica we're talking about. So yes, I
(08:06):
think the issues that's not them got you.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
So there's all these conversations called the diaspora wars right
where you see the tensions that are sprung up between
folks from the continent of Africa and Black Americans and
folks in the Caribbean. And I wanted to do this
episode to also just dispel the concept that.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
The Caribbean is just one place.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Right. It's the same way that they look at Africa
as if it's a country. Yes, I feel as though
people a lot of times look at the Caribbean.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Also as it is a country.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
So I wanted to just talk about how multiculturalism exists
within the Caribbean and how you also work on Noya
Caribbean to help grow this knowledge.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Okay, So I mean I started a platform from that
very same frustration because I was studying Antiga, right Saint Lucia.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Here from seeing okay, okay, the Patons.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
So I was studying in London. I was studying art
and photography at the time, and I was bombarded by
Jamaicans like you Jamaican and Jamaica is a Jamaica and
whatever I say, ao, yeah, hard, hard, I mean it's
changing a lot now, it's changed a lot, okay, because
I find London would have a bit more.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
They try awareness of just all these different islands.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
They try. But the thing is, remember, okay, so when
I was there, when I moved there, I moved there
in ninety nine. Now two things were happening. One, you
found that a lot of the West Africans were pretending
to be Black Americans, so hey, man, what's up, I'm
from La Man, what's your name? And like it used
to be a whole thing. And then you'd also find
(09:46):
other Cariban people trying to be Jamaican because those were
the time about this that was cool and it was
like cool. Right, So then we've come out of that.
So now you can see West Africans are super proud
and like everyone's like, yeah, I from said, Vincent from
this and whatever. But at the time when I was there,
it was bad and I was super frustrated. So I'm like, yo,
(10:07):
I going to dedicate like my entire career to telling
our stories because we're not, as you said, We're not
one thing. And then also when you look at like
the Caribbean, right, okay, the number one spoken language is
not English. English is number three. Like it's Spanish. Yeah,
if you're looking in terms of numbers, it's Spanish first
(10:27):
and then Quayole because when you look at Haiti, yes,
there's Haiti, Sir Lucia, Mathnik, Guadaloupe, Dominica, and he has
some parts of Grenada, some parts of Trinida. We all
speak Quao. So when you look at like in terms
of numbers, Quail is the second most spoken language. Zenn
Sen English. They really look at population, Jamaica's five We
(10:52):
are cubes, you know.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
They there's really to this day.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
My mother is.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Seventy eight and I had a cat center.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Here and my mother was here when I was going
and the catheter came and the cat said to my mother,
oh are you Jamaican, And of course this Grenadian woman
went off.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
I am not Jamaican.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Going to realize that they are that Jamaica, Yes, yes, still,
and I mean and it's no dis to Jamaica, and
it's no disam at.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
All at all. I love Jamaica. And I think even
Jamaicans still get stereotyped. And you know, the caricatures of
them on TV are terrible ninety nine of the time.
So even that it's not throwing shape it's like wanting
to define our own identity. So it's like Jamaica's number five.
It's like Cuba first hated Deer, Puerto Rico, then Jamaican
(11:46):
in terms of population. So even in terms of us
being like more collective in our conversations of how diverse
we are, and you know, the languages that we speak.
We have Dutch, we are papimental, like quel, we have
so much.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
But what was that second one?
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Papiamental? What is that? So that is basically a mixture
of Dutch, Spanish English. It's spoken by people in Kuasau,
Aruba born air. Yes, it's their own language and it
has been around for centuries.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Papiamento.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Yes, yes, are you listening?
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Yeah, I said today I'm learning watch. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
I did you know when you look at all genres
of music like I one time I put like a
post and like, name a genre of Caribbean music that's
not soca, danceaul or reggae, and I got like maybe
about two hundred different genres of music. Really, yeah, man,
So it was so illuminating for me too.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Well, let's name three. Okay, let's name three. Besides okay,
we said reggae. Yes, we said soca. What was the
other one? You said dance danceau Okay, So I'm reggae
soca dancer Okay, so I'm gonna throw in ska okay, yes,
calypso yes.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Can I say parang?
Speaker 3 (12:57):
Yeah, because parang stems from South America and it's not Yeah,
it's this on gene music, Okay, Yeah, salsa, salsa, bachata,
like there's so much.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Yes, because you know, so often I feel like the
Latin countries are forgotten as a part of the Caribbean,
but they are a massive part of the Caribbean. So yeah,
I mean Bad Bunny is Caribbean music.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Yes he is, Yes, he is, and very like I
love what he's doing. I love what he's doing, and
I relate so much with what he's doing, and I
love like all the different nuances that he's putting in
and I relate to it, even like the visuals that
he's had on the album, like I'll be driving through Senusha,
I'm like, yeah, that's that's Bad Bunny's album piece right there.
You know. So just because we're separated by language, that
(13:42):
doesn't maybe not separated by the story.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Mm hmmm, mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
So Okay, we talk about the language, we talk about
the music. Where do you feel like people are missing
the mark when it comes to Caribbean people, if at all?
Speaker 3 (14:07):
I think, I mean this is where you started? Where
do you start? I think one of my frustrations is
that we are treated as servants now Caribing people. We
have to put our hands up to this. Right. So
if we're looking at how our carnival has changed so much,
right because we're like Carnivorus, everybody, come everybody, and then
(14:29):
people are cosplaying the things that they see us doing
on Instagram and whatever. And then we like to be
super welcoming. Everybody can come to a coca Yeah, man,
come through, come through. And so because TV showing us
as these happy Islanders, yes, and everybody welcome. We happy
in Calypso music and this and that. And then it's
(14:49):
like people's engagement with Caribban people are through consumption. I
am going to consume your sexuality. I'm going to consume
your food and your music, oh and your pretty landscapes.
So it's never about let me can I know about
you a little bit more? So you went through some
of those same things. Why do y'all do Kinniva. Oh,
(15:10):
that's why all job job people just be dragging a
chain because it's okay, Yes, I can definitely relate to that.
Those conversations don't happen. It's like, consume all the nice
things and then that's it. So we are kind of
like just shocking and driving access service people. Yeah, just
come and take out nice things. Yeah, and that's it.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Yeah. And I feel like it makes a false chasm
between particularly Black Americans and Caribbean people, right because it
suggests that we're so far apart from each other, when
there are so many similarities that are shared, Like when
we talk about slavery. I see now under one of
your posts there was people saying, well, you know, slavery
(15:51):
never happened. And I was just blown away because they
and they were saying, you know, slavery never happened. You know,
we were prisoners of war, and we were indigenous to
the United States, et cetera, et cetera, which, by the way,
would completely disregard slavery taking place throughout the entire Caribbean
and South America. So how do you think all those
black people got to Brazil?
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Yeah? Now, you see when I get comments like this,
you come to mind because I got time today blocked
and blessed because I realize there needs to be an
official track by the way, please because I'll pay and
download it. Make it marrying tone. It makes me sad
(16:35):
because I have to sometimes take a step back and
think about in terms of the roots of us. Why
why right? Why? Because you find a lot of people
are ashamed to be associated with the legacy of Savory
and there's this narrative that we all descended from kings
and queens, and Okay, there is a lot of pain
and trauma that's associated with Savory, and people don't want
(16:55):
to think about their history in that way. And I
understand that when I try to think about is let
us reshape how we think about Savior. It's not something
to be ashamed of or about to understand the pin
but understand that we come from survivors, and that we
come from so much resilience and so much beauty, and
it's nothing to be ashamed of. So when people come
(17:16):
in with this eurasure. So there's these groups, for example,
like FBA, who are the foundation of Black Americans and
aid US, who are the American descendants of Savory.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
And I say you know what, who, by the way,
love to tell me I'm not black?
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. So I say,
let me try and understand them a little bit more
because they love to come for me. But then the
thing is, are those people who are just taking derivatives
are the people who started a movement and kind of
convoluting it and whatever, or are these people like doing
it from an authentic space work? What do they represent?
So you know, I went on their websites and net
(17:51):
read up and the FBAs are saying that they are
a combination of and State Africans who liberated themselves in
fifteen twenty, and some of them are descendants of that,
and some are descendants of State Africans, and they want
to create a clear identity that is entirely African American,
so it does not include immigrants Black immigrants and aos
(18:15):
is of the same thread. So when you look at
the FBA flag, they have the things where they celebrate
the different rebellions that happen on American soil. They have
the three stars that represent the three threads of blackness,
which are Aboriginal blacks and say black people, and there's
a third one. There's a third, I think it's free
ones or maroons. I think with something like that, okay,
(18:38):
and it's great and has olive branches to show our
connections and the fast grapes. So fundamentally I would support
something like that. But then they're like, no immigrants, they
have nothing to do with us, and I that's.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
The part for me that is the problem because it's
not true.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
Yes, and so I'm like, but okay, I understand that
you want to create your identity and some people surmpowering
and beautiful and I'm all for it, but again it's
just adding to the diancepora was again because when I
look at historically, when I look at our Caribbean people,
and the African American story is so intertwined in such
(19:15):
a beautiful way, like yo, we was all up in
the sauce together, all up in the sauce. My family
was contacted by a professor who's writing a book and
she's telling me that my great great uncle from Saint Vincent,
who left Saint Vincent when a volcano erupted and moved
to the US, was like Homeboys with Harriet Tubman like.
He interviewed her and I'm like, what are you made yes.
(19:36):
So it's like looking at like people like Sto click
on Michael, who's from Trinidad, who popularized the term black power.
When you look at Maya Angelo doing Calypso music, like
you know, Malcolm X's mothers from Gredata like this stuff.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
It's like, how can Marco Starvey, who created the red, black,
and Green flag that so many associate with the black
identity in the United States, are separate from being American. Yes,
and so I'm like Harryserman's Underground Railroad continued into the Bahamas,
like Matty the King wrote that I have a dream
speech in the Bahamas. He also said he feels like
(20:12):
a human being when he's in Jamaica because he's reconnecting
to his humanity in Jamaica.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
So like, and that's like one of a million stories.
It's going back back to what my uncle was homies
with Duboa as well wo because here's a whole next
podcast episode.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
There were Haitians that were brought in to fight in
the Revolutionary War.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Yes, it's looking at the Hall and Renaissance as well.
We don't have to fight, but we did this and
then we did that. It's like we're very interconnected. So
going back to the savery never existed thing, it comes
from shame, and I blame the US education system. Right,
I'm not even talking about now, I'm talking about how
they present the narrative of savery. I'm talking about the
(20:56):
lack of education. And I will say it's for Caribbean
people to hm how we do not know the African
American story properly. We know Beatty, we know Beatty, Beatty
and Gitty.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
I went to Haiti and I was with my friend
and her cousin's little girlfriend was like, she's like twenty.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
And she was like, can you teach me how to
talk like a black girl? And we're both like, what
do you mean?
Speaker 3 (21:24):
Yeah, what does that mean? You know?
Speaker 1 (21:26):
I want to talk like a like a Black American girl.
And we're like, like, we're Black American, we're talking right now.
And she was like no, you know, like I don't
know who you're talking to. You need to watch yes,
and she was like, you know, I watched Love and
Hip Hop and we were like noah, yeah, very distressing.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
The other day. So my sister lives in Orleans, so
I'm always there. I love it there. And one of
my little drivers. He said, away from the Caribbean. I say, yeah,
he's from And he said, why do you all hate us?
I say, uh, Alice, he said, yeah, why do y'all
hate us? It's like anytime I go online, I see
Caribbean people talking really despargingly about Black Americans and I said,
(22:12):
you know, I don't, but you have to realize that
we are victims of the same stereotypes and caricatures that
you are frustrated about and how you are represented in
mainstream media. This is the mainstream media we are sent.
So we are under the impression that African Americans are uneducated,
they ghetto, they always tell the drugs, they always have gunzi.
(22:32):
This is that, And we have a very reductive outlook
on your because that is what American media has shown us.
So then we come up to the US with this
predisposing we're not going to be like them, because we're
just going to be good carrying people and put our
head down and work because that's what Pember and father
told me to do. And we're going to separate ourselves
(22:54):
from that narrative.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Which is also a colonial thing exactly that.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
So it's were going to separate ourselves and we not
like them. So you find a lot of Cariban parents,
it don't be like them, don't be like them. And
then so we have this sometimes an Ebb superiority because
of that colonial mindset, because we two are very uneducated
about Black American history.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
I have a real problem with when I hear Caribbean
people talk about Black Americans disparagingly and they want to
make false equivalencies. Right, you know, there's such a very
unique experience of being black in America. It's not the
same as being black in England. It's not the same
as being black in Russia. It's a very particular thing,
(23:43):
and it is something that even a lot of Black
Americans can't even explain.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
Right.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
It's like it's a feeling a lot of times more
than we are able to because we too have been
stripped of our history.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
We too have been stripped of our own knowledge.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Like so many of us us don't really really really
get to learn our full history unless we pursue it
when we go to college. Yeah, Like I know that
I didn't really know black history until I got to college,
and then I became obsessed because it was like, oh
my gosh, I'm finding this treasure that has been hidden
from me this whole time.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
And I feel like I'm actually.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Going through a whole other phase of that now in
my forties, where I am discovering a whole other level
of you know, Black radicals around socialism and Marxism and
really learning about the abolitionist movement and Frederick Douglass like
these were names, but really understanding on a higher deeper
level about just how Black people were using force. Like
(24:41):
there's this really good book We Refuse that's all about
just different ways black people have resisted usaying yes, but
also like it's not just like violence, like resisting with joy,
resisting with leaving, and then there's like force. And so
a friend of mine from Great she was actually in Tennessee,
(25:03):
and she had went to Tennessee for like a tourism thing,
and while she was at this convention, all of a sudden,
Donald Trump was now slated to show up to this convention, right,
And she said, Amanda, the whole energy, the air, the
vibe of the convention just switch. It just shifts up,
(25:27):
because all of a sudden, all these people start showing
up that are Trumpers and the MAGA and all of that.
And she said very quickly, we realize, well, we're really
the only black people here. And she said, you know
before it wasn't something I really had noticed. When they
(25:49):
really start coming and you're really sad to see come safe,
and she said for the first time, she said, you know,
I hear you all the time talking about the difference
between the United States as a black person and being
in Grenader as a black person.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
And she said, I gotta tell you, that was the
first time that I really She was like, it's.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Not like I never believe you, but I got to
experience and feel it.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Yes, in that moment of like, oh this is.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
What she means, I think, yes.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
In the same time, I my sister was doing a
workplacement there, and my mom and my sister went to
see her. And my moms can be very white person,
but my sister is she's much more brown skin and
things like that. There's no big uty with my she's black, right,
And then so we going. They went into this restaurant
and it's like you walk in and you go around
(26:40):
to make your owner and whatever, and my sister is
like to my mother, keep walking, keep walking because she's
just like it was like in the movies like as
if you know when the records cratch and everyone just
and I think carrying people. We don't realize our privilege.
We are very dismissive of the black American experience as
(27:00):
have a chep on your shoulder, I need to just
keep your head down and just walk. And it's like, yo,
we grew up having black teachers, black politicians, black leaders,
black doctors, black dentists, black, everybody black. And not to
say we don't have colorism, classism, exact versions of racism
in the Caribbean, but we are very privileged that we
can walk in anywhere and with a majority ninety nine
(27:23):
point ninety nine nine nine nine percent of the time.
So we have a certain sense of security that don't
matter what we still Home is home even if we leave.
Home is home. But for me coming to the US,
like when I go to New Orleans, I love there,
been in like fifteen times. My partner's from there, and
I will be there Annualans is like seventy percent black,
(27:45):
and I feel like I love it. But in some
places i'll be there, I'll just see the American flag.
I'll be like, yo, it just feels heavier like it
don't fit there because it doesn't feel Neuoraliss doesn't feel
American to me because their.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Culture is yeah, it's another country, right right.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
My Pardner, he says that, he says, I'm not American,
I'm from New Orleans, and I'm like, yeah, I feel
you on that. So seeing the presence of the American
flag someon as it mixed me like how does one
feel when they see that flag? This is where you're
from this way? You know you're from this way, your
family from your parents, your grandparents, everything like your lineage.
And then you have this thing like I have the
privilege of looking at my flag and feeling proud of it.
(28:24):
What doesn't if you're looking at your flag and feeling
oppressed by it.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
It's interesting you say that because I was driving to
New Jersey the other day and when I was going
to the beach and when I got to the beach town,
they just had rows and rows of American flags all
up and down the street. And I just kind of
froze because I remember I had gone on a date
with a guy and he had picked me up, and
(28:47):
you know how all Caribbean people in Brooklyn would have
like the flag on the head rest.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Yes, like that was a real thing. For a long time.
He had American.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Flags on the headrest and it was a black man.
Now he's a black American guy, you know, and I
was like.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Why have American flags on the headrest? Yes, it's an
American and I said, yes.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
And but also it's because I feel when you are
black American, it's an asterisk. Like we are quote unquote
American just by default in the sense that we're here
and there was a war, and instead of honoring us
as our unique selves, it was like, well, we're just
(29:27):
going to kind of like fold you into this American identity.
We're not even going to give you the full rights
of that American identity. Yes, And so I find myself
now really trying to kind of encourage people to look,
it's funny because the FBA and the ATOS I don't
completely disagree with the concept of identifying a unique Black
(29:48):
American indigeneity, right, Like, there is a very unique identity
that was created within this nation for black people. However,
part of that involves Caribbean, but it involved Caribbean and
involves Mexican. You know. Part of the uniqueness of that
is the fact that we are part of a melting
pot because America itself is colonizers. And so when I
(30:09):
see the American flag, my thing now is are you
black or are you American?
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Because you can't be both. Yeah, because at.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
This point now, like when we're looking at Israel and
the connections of the United States to Israel and what
they're doing in Palestine, and then we start to understand
how the United States has really just destabilized all of
these countries all over the world, and the CIA killed
all these black leaders, and it killed all of these
folks here in the United States in.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
The name of America. I am like, I don't want
to be associated with that.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
Yeah, And it is becoming more and more common knowledge
the things that they're doing. But I mean, even if
said that's a side, right, even if you just look
at it's common knowledge now like all of these people
like Abraham Lincoln wasn't done for black people, like they
were saying, like, you know, looking at all the Declaration
of Independence, yon know that didn't include you, all right,
So I agree, it's like what makes you black and American?
(31:05):
And what ideals of American ness are you holding onto?
What is it that makes you proud to have that flag.
Why do you feel what makes you feel connected to
that flag to want to have it and put it
in your bio and say that you are that. Make
a new flag like YO make a new flags. They
make like the how they have you know, the African
American national anthem, like create a different space. But I
don't understand how there can be a connection to that
(31:27):
flag when the people who are oppress in my family,
my own people, are waving that same flag. We can't
be in the same room together.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Where we got tricked, Like I have a whole thesis
about this listening. I have a whole thesis about how
like Black American people are a unique form of indigenuity,
but we didn't get to connect to the land, so
our bodies had to be the soil. So we ourselves
have had to be the soil that we're connected to,
and that means that we're not really connected to like
we're not rooted right, we're moving or wrong, We've had to.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Be displaced, etc.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
We're imprisoned, and our bodies have been colonized in the
same way that we have seen indigenous land be colonized,
in the way that it is poisoned and the way
that it is stolen, in the way that it is commodified,
et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
And because we haven't been able to be like rooted.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
To our own land in mass we have been more
susceptible to the colonizing also of our minds. And so
a lot of what is holding black people back in
the United States from being able to connect to each
other and be rooted in each other is the quest
for that which was denied us, which is capitalism. And
(32:41):
you know, seeing that as like the pinnacle of freedom
and liberation, this idea that having money and access to
power is really what liberation is, is actually what American
culture stands on. American culture is it's not life liberty
and the pursuit of happiness. In American culture, life liberty
(33:03):
and the pursuit of happiness. The sentence continues, life liberty
and the pursuit of happiness is being rich.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
There's money, yeah, is money? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (33:12):
Geat money?
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Yes. Whereas I feel like, and tell me what you
think about this, but I feel like in the Islands.
Don't get me wrong.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Of course, there's power hungry people, this corruption, of course,
but I feel the connection to nature and the connection
to the land is still at the root of the
people in driving US as a people, what would you
say to that one percent?
Speaker 3 (33:37):
You know, the thing is with the African American experience
when you think about it, my friends who are African American,
I find you're let's move around a lot. Yeah, like, yeah,
I live in in distate, my parents in Tallahassee, but
I live in Upsol, like and it's so very yeah,
you know, and but it's very transient, right, One thing
(33:58):
I learned about in America and understanding the differences between
the US experience and the Caribbean experiences. Hollywood shows us
all of these big plantations in the US and things
like that, but it was less than one percent of
plantations in the US had over fifty people, right, So
the plantations were more like smaller farms wearing which in
(34:20):
these societies, black people were the minority. And so even
with the twelve million and safe Africans that were trafficked
across the USA received between four and six percent, so
that's a very small amount, but their both rates were hire.
So more onset people were born on American soil in
a community where they are the minority. So therefore it
was easier in order to control and strip away their identities.
(34:43):
So that's why we find like in the Caribbean, like
we have a lot more cultural things, big things like
you know, Carnival and this and that. We do a
lot more things that feel more broadly African because we
had larger plantations, so it was harder for them to
colonize and go into each of our minds. And then
also sugar was more deadly, so we had a higher turnover.
(35:05):
So the average life span of an ensay puts in
the Caribbean was three to nine years, so we always
had that constant influx of new African blood coming in.
But that's not to say that the American experiences Savie
was not horrible. It was just horrible in a different way.
So this is why you will find those kind of
things different between us. Also, when you're talking about our
(35:29):
connection to land, Saint Lucia, for example, it's two hundred
and thirty eight square miles, so my family and all
of our families, yes, you'll find something may go to
different islands and things like that, but fundamentally home is home.
Our land is our land, and we're able to purchase
land bit by bit learning the American experience, it was
much harder for them to buy land, and you had
(35:50):
the sharecropping thing where they got screwed over and put
into debt even more so there's a stronger disconnect to
the land.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Right.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
So when my partner came down to Sanusha the other
day for the first time, he's like, y'all know so
much about nature because we'd be like, yeah, we take
that that live, then make some tea when you're buried
in New Year Man, that's good for us. Like he's like,
yahya o, so much like so, yes, we do have
that connection with nature because we're not going to just
move to another state, drive across state lines for a
(36:18):
better opportunity.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
You have to know your place because that's where you're at.
Speaker 3 (36:22):
Yes, that's where you are. That's where you are. And
we did have not like the easiest ride, but it
was because they're up and left. They left us. It's
like your country. Now ya can buy the land. We're
able to buy land, and so we have a lot
more land ownership. So we build our houses, which is big. Yeah,
that's huge.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
Yes, And let me just say this, y'all, it's not
huge because oh, now I own something. It's huge because
there is something supernatural. There is something spiritual about land,
like the land itself is yours, and it's not I'm
not looking at it on a monetary level. I'm looking
at it as when you really do have your own
(37:03):
land and you're able to put your feet in it,
and you're able to find home in it, and you're
able to grow food that you eat from it, and
you're able to you know, it really is a different experience.
And let me tell you in the States, that is
not how the States things are. Land by and large,
ot tell you because.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
You the day are watching people yard in the US
and they have like some people have like a good
sized yard, right, and I'm like, why don't put like
an apple tree or a little avocado tree, Like why
are not like growing stuff like Caribbean yards. They'll have
a bonana tree, deer, somebody growing dashing deer. Then they
have a bay leaf tree there for you to make tea.
(37:42):
Then they have a breadfruit tree there in the black
like and it's yes, I agree. They don't see land
in that way. People will have it be decorative with flowers,
and we do too.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
And even when we do it. It is still functional, yes,
and it's enrichment, you know.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
It's not just ornamental, you know, because like my mother
has like a really expansive garden in the backyard at
this point. And even though she's not necessarily growing fruit
and things. She's grown pepper before, we've grown oranges before,
but like she's grown scotch bonnet before.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
I have to, you have to.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
But her garden is not just a matter of ornamental,
like it's also like enriching to her spirit to work
in the garden, you know. Like I mean, she's seventy
eight and she looks maybe sixty two, and a lot
of that, I know is because she's oh there in
the garden and she's work in the garden, and the
garden is working.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
Her, yes, And I think we don't see it as oppressive,
And I think, I don't know, it's just something that's
like part of the family.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
I find I never thought, no, you're just sorry, and
not to cut you, because I just never thought it,
like as I'm saying it to you, as if I've
thought of this before, but I just hadn't really thought
of that really big delineation in that there is something
that for a lot of black Americans. I think is
a matter of like, no, i don't want to have
to grow on my land because I'm not like I'm
(39:03):
not picking cotton anymore. Like it has like maybe it
has a shame to some folks.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
Yeah, no, I think so. And I think also because
like people dies, my father land, my granny leave that
land for me. Yes, so it has that emotional connection
to it as well. But like my sister, she lives
in Florida, she bought a house of a husband. Hey,
first thing, mango treat so cherry treat so avocado treat
(39:30):
so like she was, like, it's sick.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
She did, so you know, it's just love it. So wait,
can you speak about the maroons? Well, yes, and many
kinds of maruns, but yes, which ones?
Speaker 2 (39:43):
Okay, okay, okay.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
So we're gonna go to the Patreon only segment and
if you're curious, well, what is a maroon?
Speaker 3 (39:50):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (39:50):
A maroon is a fighter.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
Yes, So we're gonna get into that in the Patreon
only segment with our guests. Few on the contents. So
come and see us at the Seal Squad, y'all. Well,
I guess my last question. I would love to hear
from you about is what would you say as a
Caribbean person is a big misperception about the Caribbean islands
(40:16):
as they exist, about the people of the Caribbean because
for instance, like not just language, but even accents.
Speaker 3 (40:24):
Okay, so yeah, okay, let me ask you. Okay, I
don't know how much TV you watch a lot?
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Okay asassant amount.
Speaker 3 (40:32):
Okay, So between the Golden Age and the nineties to now,
how do you think our accents have been represented on TV?
Have you seen an improvement?
Speaker 1 (40:41):
I will say that I literally just started watching this
show called like Washington Brown, I think Washington Black. And
that is honestly the first time that I watched the
show and said they funk a real Caribbean accent. This
is an actual Caribbean accent because and I noticed it
because when the woman sided speaking, I.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
Didn't jolt.
Speaker 3 (41:07):
Your breath like please yeah, because.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
You know, typically it's all Sebastian the Crab song.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
Then you know, like when you think about the Macon
Bob sled team and you know, cool runnings and running.
For those of y'all who are not Caribbean, we are
so used to hearing this like generic. It sounds insulting
and it doesn't represent any Caribbean accent.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
It's not like, oh they keep doing a Jamaican accent. No,
no one in the Caribbean sounds like that, Like who's
that's supposed to be.
Speaker 3 (41:36):
I'm like, who's that? Like?
Speaker 1 (41:37):
I do? Yeah. I remember one time going to a
concert the Glow and the Dark Tour, and when we
were leaving, my homeboy was like.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
You know Rihanna, I mean her English is so good.
Speaker 3 (41:49):
Okay, y fun fact, Barbados has the fourth highest literal
CeREES in the world, Okay, and it lowered.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
I think it used to actually be like the number one,
like Barbie just used to have like the ninety person
literacy rates something crazy. Because a friend of mine has
been going down there to help bring the literacy rate back.
Speaker 3 (42:06):
Up, imagine, and it's like number four still and they're like,
this is number four good enough?
Speaker 2 (42:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
So when it comes to like cuisine, you know, is
it rice and peace or peace and rice?
Speaker 3 (42:23):
Are you trying to make me make?
Speaker 1 (42:24):
Now?
Speaker 3 (42:25):
I know it as rice and peace. Same, I know
it as rice and peace. But I mean, I think
to answer your question, the biggest misconception is is that
we all Jamaican, right, and that we're all the same.
And I think the misconception, I think is just because
we just don't have enough conversations, right, like I.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
Feel wait, wait, wait, let me let me stop you
because I want to rephrase my question. Yeah, okay, what
are some unique Can you name some very unique aspects
of different islands in the Caribbean for folks, because I
know that like people think Carnival all.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
Is the same, I think Caribbean food is all.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
Like people think your chicken is eaten throughout the whole Caribbean, Whereas,
to be quite honest, I have never had drunk chicken
in Grenada.
Speaker 3 (43:08):
I had your chicken when I was up on eighteen
because a Jamaica mon to send Lucian YadA is the
joke pits. But I was I was like, what's that?
Speaker 1 (43:16):
Yes? Yeah, So can you just point out for folks,
like some like unique things that dot the Caribbean landscape
that kind of gives some uniqueness to these different islands,
Like I'll name one.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
I'll name one.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
So Barbados is not a volcanic island. Yes, Barbados is
a coral island cot and so its landscape is very
different than other islands. So you might go to Barbados
and have one experience, but it is not representative of
Grenado or Dominica or Saint Lucia or Antigua, which are
volcanic islands and they are much more lush and green
(43:50):
and monktinous and have rainforests, whereas Barbados is very flat,
yes and dry, yes and dry. And have you ever
noticed I'm not a big fan of Barbadoes and the.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
Beach is very rocky. I still have.
Speaker 1 (44:04):
I never found a sand bottom beach in Barbados, but
that is a different story.
Speaker 3 (44:08):
I love Beijeans, but I like bush, so I don't
know if I can live in Barbadoes like I like bush,
I like Lunsia, like green. My father was a farmer,
so yeah, I like bush. One of the things I
will say is that the perception that like, for example,
all our carnivals are the same. So this year and
last year I did carnival in two Friends speaking countries,
(44:29):
so one in Martnique and the one in Guadlup. So
last year when we went to Guadloup, it's a lot
of live drumming, and one of the things that I
saw all of these women drumming. They had women baby
strapped to us. So when she had big drum bang
bang and you're blowing kongshell and yeah, and I was
like this is amazing. They're like, you think this is
something you need to go to Quadroop. So I went
to Guadloup this year and they marching. They're not whining
(44:51):
nobody whining on nobody. They marching and they drumming and
they blowing kongk shell and like even though there's still
departments of France, so they still colonized by France. They
use the euro and they get, you know, certain things
from France and whatever. They burn fire in France all
the time, so they have like they like their trans
are like yo, we speak queyl, I don't speak French,
(45:13):
and but it's super spiritual, Like they burn incense to
clearway bad spirits. The incense comes from a tree bag
that's from the indigenous peoples. They do masquerade to honor
the first people, to honor African peoples. They have certain
protocols of things that are very spiritual where they don't
take pictures of videos and it's very intentional, so it's
(45:34):
very different to what we see, like you know, girl
skin out wear string on the road. It's very, very different.
So yeah, so you know it's this possession that every
Caribbean experience is going to be the same depending on
the country that you go to. I mean, look at
Grenada and job like vastly different to the pretty pretty,
pretty pretty like.
Speaker 1 (45:53):
Job is intentionally yes, yes, yes, And I think also
intern intentional grunge.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
And you know, people who are listening, you know, would you.
Speaker 3 (46:03):
Say I said, they're trying to be pretty for anybody?
Speaker 1 (46:06):
No, job jab is about putting black on your body
and you're waking the spirits of the formerly enslaved coming
back to fight and to haunt these colonizers.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
And you know, Grenada is a very revolutionary country.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
Like Grenada, Grenada people don't really play as we would
say in Grenada.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
We ain't easier.
Speaker 1 (46:25):
So that's why people are like, why is a Manda
like this? I'm like, you don't understand where I'm from. Yeah,
you all really have a bag on the flag with
spicy man, we have spicy Island.
Speaker 3 (46:39):
I think that revolution really played a major role in
Grenadian identity and the way you are so proud, and
I think just unwaveringly so in comparison to some other
Caribbean ands, at atle bit more malleable, I find Grenadians
are like, hey, you're a Grenadia. You know, I'm not
trying to benover backwards. So nobody.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
And it's become even more like every Independence day the
whole island paints the island red, yellow and green, and
it really is nice because and then every year you
start to see new you know, there'll be new murals,
and you know, the murals will have like either the
coat of arms or it may have the actual shape
of the island with something design in it, et cetera.
(47:19):
Then they had like a whole big, big big mural
with all of like the sea creatures. And you know,
I'm really happy to start seeing Grenada start leaning back
into agriculture and you know, leaning back into the land
because that is really what's going to fortify us. It's
not going to be hotels. And that would actually be
my last question to you. How do you feel like
(47:40):
tourism at this point is either helping or hurting the Caribbean.
Speaker 3 (47:45):
Yeah, I think we have an overdependency on it, and
COVID taught us that, and you know, looking at how
we are willing to risk our own health to accommodate
Taurus because that is our bread and butter. I think
that was very illuminating for us. And yes, we even
though we still have this connection to the land, I
still think that we are having this first of all,
(48:05):
disconnect because of course now we're on Instagram. I'm seeing
so and so is enjoying themselves and popping this and that,
and me going walk the land. Me I want to
go and work in a nice office job and seeing
or manage like a nice hotel and whatever. Yeah, so
a lot of us are disconnecting from the land, and
so our food import bill and then having to accommodate
(48:26):
these foreign tastes because tourists they want strawberries and they
want continental breakfast, and they want this or whatever, and
then it's like, you know, so it is to me
a huge detriment, and I think if we don't do
it properly, there's a way to keep a balance, Like
you know, Dominica. Dominica was the last island to be
colonized because it's super mountainous and they had their maroons
and they had indigenous people. Is a very island of
(48:48):
extreme resistance. But extreme just green. Dominica is free, like
it is beautiful. You know, they do eco tourism, so
you know, it's keeping that balance and doing things correctly.
But you know, for example, it now feeling like a plug.
But like I don't know going to ask this question,
but it's that's why I started the Caribbean Green Book
(49:09):
because when I found out the statistic that seventy to
eighty percent of total accommodation is foreign owned. So that
means so Insan ninety cents of every dollar spent in
San Nusha in tourism leaves the country, eighty eight cents
of every dollar spent in Jamaica leaves the country. It
means Jamaicans only received twelve percent of the revenue. And
then it's also then it's worth sector of Jamaicans as well,
(49:31):
because that's when we enter classism. So we started, my
co founder and I Will started the Caribbean Green Book
to have a database of only locally owned businesses across
the Caribbean so that people can come to the Caribbean
intentionally I want to stay at this locally owned place,
this locally owned restaurant, this locally on tour operator. Because
if it is that we cannot. I cannot expect the
(49:53):
governments to collect do like for example, for Antigua, ninety
five percent of their revenue comes from tourism because their life,
it's very trying to kind of grows, so it's harder
for them to tap into agriculture. And so when they
don't have rivers, because you're like Barbados or Coral Island,
so I cannot say, well, y'all need to have been
doing tourist some thing or that, but doing it in
(50:13):
a way where the money actually comes and we can
stay owning the land and doing it differently because we're
just being recolonized right now.
Speaker 2 (50:22):
Yeah, the last well, there y'all have it. That was
a quick Caribbean one oh one lesson.
Speaker 3 (50:40):
We did.
Speaker 2 (50:40):
I'm very proud of this episode.
Speaker 1 (50:42):
This was long overdue fore you on a long overdue
and I'm so glad we were able to make this happen.
Make sure to follow Know your Caribbean on Instagram. You're
gonna get so much information. And I feel like, even
though I was raised in a Caribbean home, your page
has taught me so much beyond just what I learned,
(51:05):
you know, from going to Grenada.
Speaker 2 (51:06):
And being a Caribbean person, so that to me is
like the one you know.
Speaker 1 (51:11):
I can't stand Zuckerberg, but I appreciate that there are
spaces like yours that actually use the Internet for good
to educate. So y'all know what to do, and thank
you once again, and big up paud Garrot myself
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