Side Effects of Young People Leading the Climate Movement (with Sunrise Movement)

This week, we are joined by Aru Shiney-Ajay and Dejah Powell of Sunrise Movement, a youth organization with a mission of stopping the climate crisis and winning a Green New Deal, to talk about the ways mass movement momentum can change the Democratic Party for the better.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Small help from this small, small human area.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
Small It's so funky.

Speaker 3 (00:17):
Welcome to another episode of Small Doses podcast. Amanda Seals
here live and and full effect.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
And you know, we.

Speaker 3 (00:26):
Just we just keep going, don't we?

Speaker 2 (00:29):
We just keep going.

Speaker 3 (00:31):
And one of the things I don't think that we're
really just we're just not centering enough the conversation of
the fact that, like, we really can't keep going on
a planet that has limitations, and that's what the Sunrise
Movement is really focused on. I was really excited to
link up with these ladies who are members of the
Sunrise Movement, which is an organization of young people that

(00:53):
are dedicated to changing uh, not only the harm that's
being done the but the approach to the climate change movement.
And I think that's obviously very necessary because, like I said,
it's just not prevalent enough in our conversations around how

(01:14):
this planet, how the globalization, the geopolitics of this planet
are currently functioning. And let me just tell you, when
you really get down to the oooh the numbers as
it relates to climate change, you're wondering, like, what actually
are we talking about if we're not talking about climate change?

(01:35):
Because to be fair. Racism is trash. However, like if
we racism is a part of climate change, Like okay,
so I'll explain further. So our journalist Jason Hickel, doctor
Jason Hickele, he's a professor, he's a journalist. He's an
author of a book called The Divide and Less is More.
And he put these numbers up. He said, the Global North,

(01:59):
which is you know, Europe, the United States, basically what's
considered western, the Western world.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
The whites, yeall the whites.

Speaker 3 (02:07):
The global North countries are responsible for eighty six percent
of cumulative emissions in excess of the safe planetary boundary.
China is responsible for one percent. The rest of the
global South, so that's South America, Central America, Africa, Southeast Asia,

(02:29):
and peripheral Europe is responsible for thirteen percent. These results arise,
he says, from taking the safe carbon budget and dividing
it into national quote unquote fair shares on a per
capita basis, and then assessing national emissions against national fair shares.

(02:51):
Then he has another chart, and he says, this chart
uses the same data with the global South as a
group still within it's fair share of the planetary boundary.
Since the few overshooting countries are compensated for by undershooting countries.

Speaker 2 (03:09):
So that's the Global South, right, So we're saying.

Speaker 3 (03:11):
Like cumulatively, even though there are some countries in the
Global South doing more, it balances out because there's countries
doing less.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
Big updo Grinnada.

Speaker 3 (03:20):
By contrast, the Global North has burned through not only
its fair share of the planetary boundary, but also its
fair share of the one point five Celsius budget. And
it's too celsius budget, so literally it's exceeded this whole
budget that they have put together to stop the planet
from going up in Celsius, and.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
Then it did it again.

Speaker 3 (03:43):
Then they have another that they put together and the
breakdown using the same data. At the country level, the
red countries are in overshoot, the green countries are still
within their fair chairs. Just the guess, y'all, which are
the red countries? Yeah, Canada, Mierica, Saudi Arabia, South Africa, France, Russia, Australia,

(04:08):
New Zealand.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
It's a lot going on. Okay, it's a lot going on.

Speaker 3 (04:13):
You can go to Global Lineequality dot org slash responsibility.
In contrast, when you look at that same map, in
reverse for vulnerability.

Speaker 2 (04:24):
The red is all.

Speaker 3 (04:25):
Located in Africa and Southeast Asia. It's like literally an
exact reverse an inversion, and those same people are the
ones who are going to be exposed to extreme heat
because they are closest to the equator.

Speaker 2 (04:41):
Two billion people will be.

Speaker 3 (04:44):
Exposed, according to these findings, in a world warm by
two point seven degrees, which is our current trajectory, and
ninety nine point seven percent of them are in the
Global South.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
So that's the other part of this, Like, even though
so many.

Speaker 3 (04:58):
Of us might saying we're going to exodus from this fascist,
non sensical place, most people, I feel like are trying
to move to places that end up being in the
Global South, whether it's in Central America or Mexico or
the Caribbean or you know, Malaysia in Southeast Asia. So again,

(05:20):
we are seeing the effects of a small number of
rich people who are one hundred percent selfishly adversely affecting
the entire planet.

Speaker 2 (05:31):
And what is being done about it.

Speaker 3 (05:33):
Well, the climate change movement is being led by young
people who are not playing around, and the Sunrise movement
is one of them. And I was very honored to
get to talk with these young people and get their wisdom.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
Please share this with your young people.

Speaker 3 (05:50):
We got to get this intergenerational exchange of information happening
and understanding that there's wisdom that exists in both youth
and a right there's something different about age, so I
don't give young people. Listen, don't get guessed. Nonetheless, there is,

(06:12):
you know, much wisdom to be gained, and I was
happy to hear it and listen in And that's why
I said, let me share this episode of Views for
Amandolin here on Small Doses podcast because ever so often,
you know, they're two different entities, but the same messaging
needs to happen a lot of times for everyone listening everywhere.

(06:34):
If you're not watching Views for a Mandolin, you can
check it out ten am Eastern Wednesdays on YouTube Amanda
Sile's TV.

Speaker 2 (06:41):
I used to do it three days a week. I
do it one day a week now.

Speaker 3 (06:45):
And if you can't watch it live and be in
the chat, which is its own experience, by the way,
make sure you watch the replay and share regardless. You
get a shortcut right here because you get to listen
to this interview on Small.

Speaker 2 (06:57):
Doses podcast, and I hope you take.

Speaker 3 (07:00):
Away the stuff that I took away, which was we've
got to put pressure on these folks because they trick
us into thinking that, you know, we need to be
recycling our yogurt lids and that that's going to make
the difference. And it's like, actually, know what the problem
is is that we have a nation and nations that
are just copiously supporting the over extending of greed to

(07:25):
utilizing fossil fuels, to burning fossil fuels, and we have
a United States. It's literally just undermine the Green Bill,
which doesn't give any incentive to try to find alternative
uses of energy that are sustainable.

Speaker 2 (07:39):
It's disdainful and.

Speaker 3 (07:40):
It's really just psychotic power and money addicts at hand.
That's what this is. It's not anything other than that.
And I hate that we do not pathologize these people
because we need to, because these people are insane and
that's who's at the helm. Thankfully, we've got young people
who are totally sane that are also at the helm

(08:01):
of a freight train moving.

Speaker 2 (08:02):
In the direction. Let's get into it.

Speaker 4 (08:04):
Side effects of young people leaving a climate.

Speaker 2 (08:06):
Movement here with the sunrise movement.

Speaker 3 (08:13):
Yeah, hello, hello, all right, Daja can we get you
a little more center?

Speaker 2 (08:22):
Yes? Perfect?

Speaker 1 (08:23):
Perfect?

Speaker 2 (08:23):
Perfect? And AARU. How are you hi?

Speaker 1 (08:27):
So great to be on It's great to meet you.
I was a big fan of small doses. I got
me through college, so it's me.

Speaker 3 (08:36):
That says we're serving well, welcome to the show. This
is a root in Asia of the Sunrise Collective and
I mean sorry, the Sunrise Movement.

Speaker 2 (08:49):
And I really feel like I was.

Speaker 3 (08:53):
I came across you guys because of course on this internet,
this some this algorithm is full of it, but ever
so often it does bring me into spaces with people
of like minds, and you guys are that. And I

(09:14):
think that there just really isn't enough conversation around how
climate change factors into our resistance in a very literal way,
Like it's not esoteric, it's not something that you have
to like expand to include. It's already there. You just
have to know how to point it out. So I
want to talk first about what the Sunrise movement is

(09:37):
and what you guys do. You guys Normally I tell
them they have to address their questions by people's last names,
but since it's two of you, you can say you
know are ruined DESA or miss and ruined DESA because
we are in a class, right, So y'all send your
questions through in the chat. But again, so let's let's
let's let's get to talking. What is the Summrise movement?

Speaker 1 (09:59):
Yes, I can kick us off a little bit or roo,
feel free to jump in. But Sunrise is a youth
led climate movement that's organizing building power to stop the
climate crisis, create millions of good jobs. We have over
one hundred hubs across the country of young people who
are doing it direct action, organizing campaigning around climate. We

(10:20):
do this in some of our trainings. But I like
to say this is like not your local eco club.
We're like not about recycling and composting, though that work
is very important. We are like a youth organization that's
trying to build people power and political power to like
meet the scale and urgency of a climate crisis with
the type of action it demands.

Speaker 2 (10:38):
And where did this begin and how and by whom?

Speaker 4 (10:45):
It started? Around seven years or yeah? Is it seven now?

Speaker 1 (10:48):
Oh? Ye time, time it's flying.

Speaker 5 (10:52):
I joined Sunrise when I was right out of my
freshman year of college, and that was like right around
when it started. It was like twenty seventeen, and it
was just a bunch of kids from around the climate
movement who were like, actually, nobody is taking seriously this
issue and we need to do something about it, and
we need to make politicians do something about it.

Speaker 4 (11:11):
And it's as simple as that.

Speaker 5 (11:12):
And I often say to young organizers, like, small groups
of people with the courage to dream a little bigger
than what's possible is what changes the world. And I
think Sunrise is really an example of that, Like a
bunch of people sat in a room and said, this
isn't working.

Speaker 4 (11:27):
Let's do something else.

Speaker 5 (11:28):
Let's do something that's actually going to transform our political
system in the ways that we need.

Speaker 2 (11:32):
What wasn't working.

Speaker 5 (11:34):
I think the truth is that before Sunrise, like climate
was dead in the water as a political issue. People
were like, well, we can't do anything about climate because
it would like kill jobs. It was like so low
on the Democratic list of priorities. And I remember, you know,
I helped knock a lot of doors in twenty eighteen
and the Democrats won the House, and then there was

(11:55):
this like article that came out that was like Dems
damp down hope on climate, And I think we at centrized,
just like didn't take that lying down. Like right after that,
we did a sit in in Nancy Pelosi's office calling
on the Democratic Party to like create a select committee
around the Green New Deal and actually like try to
tackle the greatest crisis of our time.

Speaker 4 (12:17):
And that I think that's what wasn't.

Speaker 5 (12:19):
Working, and that's what we decided to change, is we're like,
politicians have to take the climate crisis seriously and this
is a defining issue.

Speaker 4 (12:26):
Of our generation.

Speaker 1 (12:27):
Yeah, And I think it was the boldness and audacity
of Sunrise to me that pulled me in. I'm from Chicago.
I joined six years ago and went to a training
and I'm hearing these kids talk about the fossil fuel
industry and about the Democratic Party and how we need
to be like sitting in our senator's office and like
asking them to support the Green New Deal. And there
was something about pushing for bold action, even if that

(12:49):
dogs have felt impossible. And we'll talk about some of
our plans of what we're cooking up over the next
four years, but it was just like to be bold
and to like meet the moment with the types of
action organizing that's needed is what I find to be
so like inspiring about our movement.

Speaker 3 (13:03):
Can you just for clarity purposes, let folks know what
is the Green New Deal?

Speaker 4 (13:09):
You got?

Speaker 1 (13:10):
Yeah, so the Green New Deal was introduced. I believe
there's like a whole history out like Green Party and
things like that. But the Green New Deal is sort
of a comprehensive vision to adjust the climate crisis. It
was introduced by Ed Marketing AOC in Congress. But it's
a bill that's essentially about decarbonizing, but not just like
reducing our carbon emissions. It's about like investing in black, brown,

(13:33):
poor working class communities, so like a just transition. It's
about green union jobs, Like it will take a lot
of work to transition every sector of our economy onto
one that runs on clean energy. And so how do
we like ramp up jobs for young people and all
people in this country? Those are some of the like
core tenants of the Green New Deal. So like a
policy vision that meets the climate crisis at the like scale.

Speaker 3 (13:57):
Outside of you know, addressing politicians, one of the things
on your website speaks to your strategy and education of
the people really being the cornerstone of the strategy. So
can you talk to me more about that, because I'm
just as strong proponent at this point of the fact
that education is really the solve across the board for
literally everything.

Speaker 4 (14:20):
Yeah, I mean, we're movement driven by people power.

Speaker 5 (14:23):
I would say, like our fundamental belief about the way
that society works is that society works because every day
people choose to make it work.

Speaker 4 (14:29):
Like we're the ones.

Speaker 5 (14:30):
Who do the actual you know, like run the trains,
like drive cars, deliver things, pack boxes like that is all,
go to school like that is all just things that
every day people do. And part of the reason, you know,
I think there's a there's a sense that change will
only happen if you convince the people in charge, and

(14:51):
the reality is that actually if you convince everyone not
in charge, if you convince the mass, the masses of people,
you're actually able to create enormous chance. That's where I
think the education piece comes in. And training and leadership
development is a really huge part of our strategy of
actually equipping people with the organizing skills and also the
orientation the strategic understandings that they need to be able

(15:13):
to run campaigns wherever they are.

Speaker 3 (15:15):
And so how do you go about doing that? I
mean this is a different time. I feel like there
may be more access to people, but also like more
impediments at the same time.

Speaker 2 (15:24):
It's like an odd Yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:26):
I think some of the vehicles that we do this
around education are like social media. There's a lot of
political education that happens through our live graphics, through the videos,
through our storytelling. We also run trainings. So we just
had a training in Colorado where like ninety plus members
and leaders from across our movement came together to learn
how to put on mass trainings in their communities.

Speaker 2 (15:48):
Oh wow, okay, yeah, so that was a training about training.

Speaker 1 (15:52):
It was a training of trainers, yes, And we think
that's how we like scale our movement and reach as
many people as possible. And we're also kicking off a
series of region trainings across the summer where we're like,
how do we get our vision and our strategy of
like dismantling and like ending the oligarchy and actually putting
a government in place that will stop the climate crisis,
but many other issues. And we think trainings are our

(16:13):
way not just where we like consciousness raise and educate people,
but we also move them to action. And so often
there are calls to actions that are like we're planning
an action through our campaigns plug in. So yeah, I
think a lot of it is a mix of like
how do we educate people? But so much about organizing
a movement building is like what are we calling people
to do an action together?

Speaker 3 (16:33):
I mean, honestly, I feel like that is also education.
Folks don't know what to do, you know, folks don't know.

Speaker 2 (16:39):
What to activate, how to activate.

Speaker 3 (16:41):
We have effected, we have effectively, as an American, as
a Usian culture, been trained to be docile, right, and
been trained.

Speaker 2 (16:49):
To be like please sir, were right? Suh? You know,
rights not rice. There's a very real.

Speaker 3 (16:58):
Brainwashing that has effectively convince people that their only way
and a roue you just said this, that their only
method of getting any level of change is to ask
for it versus to make demands. And also to just
demonstrate that this is a thing that's happening, which is
also why I love that you all are called Sunrise
Movement not Sunrise collective, right, because like you know, a

(17:22):
collective is just like we all here, like we we
might do some stuff, but ultimately we go hang out.

Speaker 2 (17:29):
That's what we're gonna do.

Speaker 1 (17:30):
Yeah, And I think our biggest opportunity in this moment,
like there's so much despair and so many people that
are like doom scrolling on social media maybe do not
believe in the power of organizing. We saw like the
twenty twenty uprisings, mass protests, and if you look at
the like materialize of many black people in this country,
very little has changed. And so I think there's this
opportunity for us to figure out how do we communicate

(17:51):
to people that like organizing and movement building can work,
and we need to do it at a scale that
our country has never seen before, And especially as we
think about what it's going to take to resist Trump,
we see him twenty twenty eight. Hats, I'm like, you
legally cannot run for president in twenty twenty eight, and
I think we need to be thinking about how we
build the type of power that we'll say no, you
must go as we continue to resist his current attempts

(18:15):
to capture as he is doing and taking over our government. Now.

Speaker 5 (18:19):
I think a lot of our analysis around that is
in order to effectively do that, Like people voted for
Trump because this system is not working for most people.
As you were saying, to Asia, and part of what
we actually need to do is articulate a vision of
a society that works for everyday people, of a government
that works for everyday people, and call Trump out for
like the oligarchic president that he is, Like he's an

(18:40):
authoritarian and he's also.

Speaker 4 (18:42):
He's not for working class people.

Speaker 5 (18:44):
He's not for everyday people, and I think like making
that really clear in the ways we campaign, and particularly
the campaign around a climate, which I think is actually
an issue that touches so many people's lives and is
his most unpopular issue, is a really important opportunity, like
he is going to make up on this and it
is really important. There's a vocal youth climate movement that's

(19:04):
able to say, like, if you want a livable future,
we have to kick this guy out. We have to
end the reign of big oil, of oligarchs in this
country and be able to build a government that works
for all of us.

Speaker 3 (19:14):
Where do the Democrats fall in that? Because I think
there is definitely a I'm going to put a hope.
I'm just going to be nice and say there's a
hopeful commitment by many people to the Democrats, feeling that
they are counter to that in your work and in
your experience, where would you say they stand at this point?

Speaker 4 (19:36):
You don't need to be nice. We are often not nice.

Speaker 5 (19:43):
Yeah, I mean I would say, like, one thing I'll
say is that I don't think it's always helpful to
think of parties as like one thing. I think of
parties as arenas that we can contend for power within.
And yeah, I'm like a lot of the establishment Democratic
Party is like they have been cowardly and they have

(20:04):
like failed to address the root of the problem. And
I think they have huge responsibilities in terms of how
we got to where we are now. And also I
think that, like the Democratic Party is not just the
people in charge of the Democratic Party. There are like
enormous amounts of people who would be considered the Democratic
base that are also the party and have control over
the party. And I'm like that is like that that

(20:27):
I think about the insurgent wing of the party that's
rising in my opinion, the opportunity that there is for
it to continue rising, Like I think.

Speaker 2 (20:34):
We really surgent wing of the Democratic Party. Tell me
more about that.

Speaker 5 (20:38):
Yeah, I mean, I think there's like the insurgent I
would say, like people like AOC, but also people like
Zoran mom Dannie and Brandon Johnson and like, there are
these people who are trying to redefine the Democratic Party
to be more than what it has been historically. And frankly,
I think that that's the only way for the Democratic
Party to survive. Like this milk toast like bland policies

(20:59):
that they put forward to where they just keep advocating
for the status quo and they're too afraid to say
anything bad to Trump because like decorum and like got
to follow the rules, Like that's not going to cut it.
Nobody wants to vote for that. And I think part
of what we're trying to do is be like we
are going to create the mass movement energy set is
so strong that you know, politicians are like weather wins.

(21:20):
They will follow where they think they can win. And
I don't think there's any way that Biden would have
won the twenty twenty election if it weren't the huge
uprisings that happened before against Trump, and like mass movement
momentum actually does allow politicians like shift in the moment.
I think the key is that we actually are able
to translate that mass movement momentum into.

Speaker 4 (21:41):
Like power to actually block things.

Speaker 5 (21:44):
Like I'm like, can we actually translate that to we
have twenty million people in the streets and also if
you don't pass what we want you to pass, we
will turn back into the streets and like not let
you not let life go on as normal until you
give us what we want. And I think having that
not just mobilization power, but organizing power to translate it
for the long haul is really key.

Speaker 4 (22:04):
But I think that's how you shift the party.

Speaker 5 (22:06):
And I'm like, yeah, I don't trust a lot of
the Democratic Party, and also we have to see them
as an arena where we contend for power.

Speaker 2 (22:17):
Deja. How has your.

Speaker 3 (22:21):
Ideologies, your belief in this system, if at all, shifted
since you joined Sunrise.

Speaker 1 (22:30):
Yeah, it's interesting. I've been having a lot of conversations
with friends around this where you like, enter as a
baby organizer and people are pitching you on the visions
and the plans and you're like, anything is possible. And
I remember twenty twenty when Bernie was running and I
went out to Iowa to go canvas for him, and
he was talking about Sunrise and his rallies, which is
like huge for presidential nominee to like absolutely give airspace

(22:52):
to your movement. And I think over the years, we've
seen the jamalbum and Corey Bush where we're like canvassing
and doing work, and you know, these institutions like APAC
just crush them. And I think it has been pretty
clear how the tweaking around the system has not worked

(23:13):
for our organizing. And that's why I feel most excited
about Sundris's long term plan of like we need masses
of people organized to push for a real, real, like
revolution of sorts. I'd like to say of our current
political system, like we need a government like AARU has
talked about this before in the past, of like that
can legislate and past bills week after week to address

(23:35):
not just the climate crisis, but other issues and ills
in society. And we don't have a government that does that.
And so I think in a lot of ways, I've
gotten closer to the root of the problem, which I
think demands a far greater organized response. And you know,
I'm still going to knocked doors. I live in New
York City, have been knocking doors for Zoran and really
excited to see what happens. Do not want Eric Adams show.

(23:58):
You should get him on.

Speaker 3 (23:59):
The show, you know, I mean, I have his contact.
But then part of me was like, I want a
politician on the show, but he has his one of
his comms. People DMed me, but they were like, you
should talk about Zoron's like they like they wanted me
to talk about Zor And I was like, oh, Baybe, no,

(24:21):
like that's not this is if you want to come
on and talk about it, or you want to come
on and talk about it, yeah, but I'm not going
to be.

Speaker 2 (24:29):
I don't endorse candidates, Yeah, I don't.

Speaker 1 (24:31):
I mean, I think the thing that's interesting for him
is he's like talking about issues that affect everyday people,
about free buses in New York City, about childcare, about rent,
about the housing crisis, and it's like we need to
be speaking to issues that affect people materially. And also yeah,
thinking about the organizing around climate connecting those issues with
how those were worsen and yeah, I guess be exacerbated

(24:54):
bout the climate crisis.

Speaker 3 (24:55):
So so basically what I'm gathering though, is that you
guys BO feel like we have left the reformist stage.

Speaker 5 (25:04):
I think we need really Yeah, I'm like, I think
we need huge transformations to our political system otherwise shit
will fall apart.

Speaker 4 (25:12):
That is how I think about the next few years.

Speaker 2 (25:15):
Now.

Speaker 3 (25:15):
In terms of the young people that you're working with,
what do we consider young people?

Speaker 2 (25:20):
Yeah, so we organize young at heart.

Speaker 1 (25:23):
We do have a young at heart movement. Yeah, so
we organize folks under thirty five. And so many people
are like, what happens when I turned thirty six? I'm
twenty nine, so I got six more years. But yeah,
we organized folks under thirty five. That's how we define youth.
We have high schoolers who are organizing across the country,
college students, and then like young adults in communities across

(25:43):
the country.

Speaker 3 (25:44):
Okay, and then so the thing about it is that
for real reform, well for real revolution to happen, right,
because I think when people think about revolution, they literally
just think of Dal Castro.

Speaker 2 (25:58):
Where they're like, are we we all wearing green?

Speaker 3 (26:01):
You know, are we walking through the Cuban countryside? And
there's just so many multiple prongs of revolution that have
to take place in this nation. How do we see
the revolution for climate change existing in a real way?
In terms of your strategy and your objective.

Speaker 5 (26:24):
Yeah, I think it's like the reason that climate is
a really key part of this to me is that
it is going to force capitalism and society into crisis,
Like there is no way for it not to, and
it is currently doing it. Yes, And as that happens,

(26:44):
there is a choice that we have about whether people
want a better.

Speaker 4 (26:47):
Version of the world or a worse version of the world.

Speaker 5 (26:50):
And it is actually just that simple and being like,
when this happens, wouldn't you rather actually have like a
government that is able to help you rebuild your home
or help you relocate. Wouldn't you rather have a government
that like builds sea walls?

Speaker 3 (27:04):
And let me let me just correct it, because I
feel like we're getting into Spiel's territory and I want
to get us out of spiel territory.

Speaker 4 (27:14):
What it like.

Speaker 3 (27:16):
Earlier in the conversation, Daja said, like, I want to
talk about like the actual plans that we have that
are about activating people beyond just you know, meeting and
learning and doing sit ins like what are because a
revolution requires a multi pronged approach.

Speaker 1 (27:36):
Right, yes, yes, So what.

Speaker 2 (27:40):
Is the movement?

Speaker 3 (27:41):
How is the movement moving in ways that you can
tell us because I know there's also stuff that has
to be kept on the low.

Speaker 4 (27:47):
Yeah, dishion, you want to talk about twenty twenty eight stuff.

Speaker 1 (27:49):
Yes, So we sort of have like a three phased
approach over the next four years for how we want
to approach sort of building the types of power to
upend society and get a government that can like govern
around climate. The first piece of it is around winning
the public and specifically for our fighter on climate, connecting
big oil to the current administration, and it's like pretty

(28:10):
clear people aren't really thinking that much about the role
of the fossil fuel industry and big oil and sending
our entire society towards quite literally collapse. And I'm like,
these motherfuckers, to be honest, should not be walking around
comfortably in society. And so for us, it's like, how
do we do campaigning over the.

Speaker 4 (28:28):
Next year to.

Speaker 1 (28:30):
Really paint big oil and big oil olidarks is the villain.
I think some of this also connects to the Trump administration,
just given I think it was like four hundred and
forty five million dollars they gave to his administration. They're
like fueling fascism, and so how do we come after
big oil The second phase is, oh, really, what's this?

Speaker 4 (28:50):
Like the were talked about coupling the pillars. Basically we're like, yeah, yeah, base.
I don't know if you've heard.

Speaker 5 (28:57):
The United Autoworkers has put out a call from Masters
in twenty twenty eight, and we've basically been like, we
want to align ourselves with that strategy and.

Speaker 2 (29:05):
Have Why are we waiting till twenty and twenty eight?

Speaker 5 (29:08):
Honestly, it just takes a lot of time to get
majorities of people willing to like not go to work
or school.

Speaker 4 (29:14):
And I think that's why fascinating and I wish it
was sooner.

Speaker 5 (29:20):
But it might happen. Like I always say that you
never know what happens well to your point sooner.

Speaker 3 (29:26):
It's pushing people to experience things in real time, so
it may push a response to happen.

Speaker 2 (29:32):
In real time sooner.

Speaker 1 (29:33):
And I think the other bit of it is that
there are things that are happening externally that we can't control.
There are like trigger events, so we call them that
might be climate disasters. I'm surprised that LA wildfires weren't
one event where people aren't waking up to like entire
communities burning had happen to La. I haven't been at
La since, but haven't been.

Speaker 2 (29:52):
Toa like have you spent a time in La?

Speaker 1 (29:54):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, it doesn't know how much time.

Speaker 3 (29:57):
But it ain't that kind of to ambabe, They're like,
oh my god, fires, that's crazy, So do you want
to go to the growth, but that you can go
to palisades, Let's just go to the growth.

Speaker 2 (30:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:09):
And it's sad and devastating that it's going to take
a disaster that takes probably many lives in this country,
but there will be moments or red lines that are
so to speak, crossed, that we need to be ready
as movements to respond to. And it may be sooner
that we need to be calling for boycotts at the
scale that we've never seen before in this country, for

(30:29):
levels of like civil disobedience and maths not compliance. And
like Asaru said, it just does take a lot of
organizing and education of people and skill building to get
our society ready for the types of strikes that we're
trying to organize towards.

Speaker 3 (30:43):
Someone in the chat just said, not everyone in La
is like that. Yea, not everyone anywhere is like anything,
But the culture of a place is what ends up
being the mass response to things. Right, So, for instance,
we talk about bad Apple cops, but it's not that.
It's that policing itself is a culture of harm. So

(31:06):
even if there are good people in the police department,
they are not protected by the police department. There are
good people in LA. There are people that care about
the way things move in LA. However, the culture of
LA is industry and capitalism, and literally the mayor of LA,
a black woman named Karen Bass, has put so much

(31:28):
money behind policing and behind corporate dollars that it is
very clear that she also does not care in the
same way.

Speaker 2 (31:36):
So miss me with that. Okay, sorry, I hate it,
not all. I hate a not all argument. It's straw man.

Speaker 3 (31:47):
So we have some fabulous questions. And you know, there
has been a number of climate disasters that are happening
right now, Like we're seeing Josh Holly literally asking Christy
no Im like, will you tell President Trump about Missouri?
We really need help in Missouri. It's like, well, you
should have thought of that when y'all was saying that
FEMA di mad Inemo.

Speaker 5 (32:04):
Yes, this is why I think this whole like left,
like Republicans Democrats. Thing is I'm like, listen, all like
Ourtan Control are screwing over all of us.

Speaker 4 (32:12):
I go to rural areas.

Speaker 5 (32:14):
And I talk to people, and sometimes those people are
tracking climate change and climate effects more than a lot
of people in cities because they see it right in
their backyard. And I think like, this is the place
where I'm like, climate has a real possibility to have
populous appeal because people feel it in their lives.

Speaker 4 (32:29):
Yes, it matters.

Speaker 3 (32:31):
Look at what happened with Hurricane Helene. You know, like
those people are still rebuilding. They did not get support,
and ultimately they're like even if we were political in
response to being mag etc. Before, Like now we're political
in terms of why is our government not caring about
us as people?

Speaker 2 (32:49):
And I feel like that's part of the.

Speaker 3 (32:50):
Education that you guys are doing, is changing what political
means right.

Speaker 4 (32:55):
And is not about just like culture too.

Speaker 3 (32:58):
Yes, well that's the whole thing that has to shift,
is this culture, right, Like political is not what party
you are a gang member of. And that's what some
people really think, like they're flagging like they're Democrats, like
twisting up their fingers for the crats, and ultimately political
means you are aware of how the government is informing
and involving your life, involved in your life, and you

(33:21):
understand it. That is not something that's passive. Folks in
our chat are not passive and so they have some questions.
And Desa is from Chicago, so she is also not passive.

Speaker 4 (33:35):
Let's get into it.

Speaker 2 (33:38):
Where are you from?

Speaker 4 (33:39):
I'm from Minneapolis of very miny happiness.

Speaker 3 (33:42):
Minneapolis is also not passive, as we learned with the
George Floyd.

Speaker 4 (33:46):
Py not passive. Do not take things ive done?

Speaker 3 (33:50):
So, Nigel d asks, is there a gap between the
material lives and concerns and caring about climate change?

Speaker 2 (33:58):
I'm not sure I understand this question, but maybe you onto.

Speaker 4 (34:01):
I think I do. Do you want to start?

Speaker 1 (34:04):
Yeah? I think I'm interpreting some of it of like,
how do we make a stronger connection? I think and
sometimes I felt this as a young black organizer really
trying to figure out how in centers we organize young
black Latina, poor working class folks about climate is not
the thing my family is thinking about the day to day.
It's like jobs, our school system, gun violence, and climate emerge.

(34:28):
I see, yeah, and I think, yeah, how do we
actually connect the issues that people are materially facing with
the climate crisis, and I think the Green New Deal,
as sort of the vision that we were really organizing around,
has been the way to do that. To say, like
the crisis around gun violence is connected to like disinvestment
in education in jobs. The Green New Deal is not

(34:51):
just about decarbonizing. It's also about how do we put
massive amounts of investments in our school systems and retrofit them,
and how do we invest in teachers because that's like
low carbon work and those types of things.

Speaker 3 (35:03):
I went on a tour in twenty fourteen called the
Toxic Tour, and I went on with in New Orleans, Aucus,
all over the nation.

Speaker 4 (35:11):
So wow, I love the hip hop podcast. They're awesome.

Speaker 2 (35:14):
Yeah, shout out to the Reverend.

Speaker 3 (35:17):
We went to Detroit, we went to Virginia Beach or
like Portsmouth. I think we went to d C And Baltimore,
and we did go down to Louisiana, But I don't
feel like we went to New Orleans.

Speaker 2 (35:30):
I can't remember.

Speaker 3 (35:30):
Twenty fourteen feels like it was a real Yeah. But
one of the things that I learned on that tour
was just that, you know, I think some people think
of climate change, and they're thinking of just like weather,
not realizing that your climate that.

Speaker 2 (35:50):
You exist in is not simply just the weather.

Speaker 3 (35:53):
It's the air you breathe, yes, right, it's the it's
the water that you have access to, it's the food
that you eat, and that corporations are affecting that, which
then also affects the weather.

Speaker 1 (36:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (36:07):
And also like we shouldn't be paying utility bills these days,
like we should have been developing like solar power and
wind power that.

Speaker 4 (36:17):
Allows like publicly owned power. You have bills you pay.
Food is going to get more expensive, like the money
that comes.

Speaker 5 (36:25):
Out of your pocket, the bills you play every day
are going to be affected by climate change and already are.
And I think part of what the Green New Deal
does is like, let's not it's hard sometimes to make
those connections. So it's like, here are all the ways
that stopping climate change can make your life better, and
that's what's at the heart of the Green You do.

Speaker 2 (36:48):
I think people think that.

Speaker 3 (36:50):
If jobs go away, it's not replaced with resources. And
what they think is that if jobs go away, then
I will have and then if I have nothing, then
I can't live not understanding that. Really what it is
is that if jobs go away that are harming people,

(37:11):
and other systems are put in place for those particular jobs,
a lot of the jobs that you're doing are not
necessarily attached to a specific skill or a specific preference,
but just getting a check. So if the reason you're
at that job is to get a check that you
no longer have to pay, that gives you a greater

(37:32):
opportunity to now go do something that you actually care about,
and it relieves society.

Speaker 2 (37:37):
This is socialism, guys.

Speaker 3 (37:38):
It reallys society of this thing up here. And for
what it's worth, majority of society is not interested in
being a billionaire. And I think that's the thing that
really gets misrepresented when we watch shows like the Kardashians
like and all of this, like fantasizing about celebrity. It's

(37:58):
that most people actually are like I really just want
to be able to comfortably feed my family, Yes, like
have joy and have time to rest, Yes, and feeling
And for the record, let me just tell you as
somebody who has chased wealth, there was a a well
bodied black man from Brooklyn, New York who once said,

(38:23):
mo money, mo problems.

Speaker 2 (38:28):
Yeah, and he wasn't wrong, Okay, he was wrong.

Speaker 1 (38:33):
I think something that just you reminded me of in
sharing some of that is just like the visioning piece
of it, where I'm like, there are so many ways
we could operate as a society. And there's a book
What If We Get to Write by doctor Ayanna Elizabeth Johnson,
She's like a black marine biologist, really like hopeful book.
But I'm like, I dream of days where there are

(38:53):
like youth like jaw programs where people intergenerationally get to
come together to like invest in parks in their community,
do political education around climate climate science. Like there are
so many different ways to structure society and get at
some of the like isolationism, individualism. And I think the
thing about the Green New Deal that's really exciting is like,
how do we envision a new society hosts capitalism that

(39:17):
is not running on like extractive industries, extractive employers and jobs.
And yeah, I think that's just really exciting to think about.
Like there as space to vision what our society looks like.
And right now we're living in the dreams of billionaires
and I'm like, how to actually build the power to
live in the dreams of working people, and I'm like,
society will look significantly better and people will be so

(39:39):
much more happier, and we need to like tell people
that so that we're able to like build the power
and bring people in our movements to like struggle and
fight for that. Because I think there's the other thing. Oh,
the last thing I'll say is I was we were
on a broad trip last year and talk to someone
who was like, I just think Americans are too comfortable.
There will never be revolution in a society, and I

(39:59):
think we have to like make it pretty clear that
the way that we live we're living right now in
this country is also like not good. I think about how.

Speaker 2 (40:08):
People are very comfortable with their discomfort.

Speaker 5 (40:13):
Yeah, I'm like that we have this weird thing where
the essentials are way too expensive, like healthcare and housing
and childcare and elder care, and they distract us from
that by giving us cheap things that break in a
few months and we can just consume and they break
apart all the time.

Speaker 4 (40:32):
I'm talking about like fast.

Speaker 5 (40:33):
Fashion all the time, and to fill the fact that
we're not getting our basic needs mets. But people are
tricked into thinking that they are okay because you can
buy a hall on she you know, and like that
that is the way that modern capitalism is operating in
a way that I think is really dangerous.

Speaker 2 (40:49):
So I'm from Grenada, my people are from Grenada.

Speaker 1 (40:52):
Yes, I got to visit.

Speaker 4 (40:54):
I got to visit this march really.

Speaker 1 (40:56):
Yes, I love exploring high king waterfalls. There was like
seven Sisters. Yeah that was a whole but.

Speaker 2 (41:03):
Yeah, ut, yeah, see you went to Seven Sisters. Okay,
Well let me tell you.

Speaker 3 (41:08):
While I was growing up, like we were always and
anybody who has immigrant relatives knows this. You always got
to show up with at least two additional suitcases of
all the things that are super expensive there that are
inexpensive in the United States, right, And it would.

Speaker 2 (41:23):
Be things like toothpaste, lotion, you know, soap, et cetera.

Speaker 3 (41:29):
And I just remember when I was growing up being like,
why is everything so expensive here?

Speaker 2 (41:33):
That is how I look at here.

Speaker 3 (41:35):
Now, I'm like, why is everything so expensive here? Like
it's not even a difference anymore. Like when people are like,
bring us this, I'm like, it's the same mirror.

Speaker 4 (41:48):
That is still relatable. And I've been through the same
experience with my family.

Speaker 2 (41:53):
Where's your family from from?

Speaker 4 (41:55):
Southern India, Kerala.

Speaker 3 (41:56):
Yeah, oh, so y'all got the suitcases. I mean, it's
just it's a very real thing, y'all. And people come
and it's literally like you're like a mobile convenience store.
Like people come and they go through the bags and
they're like, I'll take this, I'll take.

Speaker 2 (42:08):
This, I'll take this. You're like, thank you. Okay.

Speaker 3 (42:10):
So Kasi Kanahan has a question, esteemed guest, what is
up with these earth bag homes and earth ships? I
haven't heard it a any of this, so I don't
know if you guys have Are these realistic?

Speaker 1 (42:20):
I haven't heard of this.

Speaker 2 (42:22):
Okay, let me look it up. Earth bag I've heard
about this a little bit.

Speaker 5 (42:26):
It's basically earth bag homes. I don't know about earth ships.
It's like making homes out of like clay materials, basically
is my understanding. And like sustainable building practices, I don't
know the most about it, and so I'm going to
give a slightly general answer, but I feel like what
I will say is, I'm like, I do think we

(42:46):
need to be really innovating on a lot of the
ways that we build things at scale, and I think
that includes like creativity and different materials that we use
in all of that. And I know that, you know,
just from my emissions perspective, trying to look outside of
concrete or how to make green concrete is like a
big question that people have of like how to reduce emissions,
which is where some of the earth back Home stuff

(43:06):
comes out.

Speaker 4 (43:07):
I don't have a better answer on.

Speaker 5 (43:08):
Whether these are really realistic specifically, I haven't looked into
them as.

Speaker 3 (43:11):
Much well, you know, when I looked it up just
now real quick. I mean, most of these pictures are
of homes, are replicates of homes that are in other nations,
Like this is a home in Oman that is made
from clay, right, and we know that when you go
and you travel and you see these other ways of life,

(43:31):
particularly in the continent, they have been living in sustainable
homes for quite some time. I mean, of course we
are used to these palaces that we live in, but
they're building homes of clay.

Speaker 2 (43:44):
You know, they're building sustainable homes of wood.

Speaker 3 (43:46):
There's a really famous clip of this carpenter who was
on a show, like a call in show in Britain
where the very just a whole host was like, all right,
so you're a carpenter.

Speaker 2 (44:01):
Is that right?

Speaker 3 (44:02):
You're a carpenter, So please explain to me about what
being a carpenter has to do with sustainability.

Speaker 2 (44:08):
What is that?

Speaker 3 (44:09):
What's the difference between what chewed you in concrete?

Speaker 2 (44:13):
And the guy is like.

Speaker 3 (44:15):
Well, I mean it's sustainable because you can grow trees.
And then the guy's like, well you can go concrete,
you can grow concrete, And the guy just sits there
in silence, like.

Speaker 2 (44:30):
Because that's nonsense. He doesn't say anything, And the.

Speaker 3 (44:34):
Host is like, well, we're gonna not talk to James because.

Speaker 2 (44:37):
We don't need to hear any of that nonsense, any
of that bollocks.

Speaker 3 (44:42):
But I, you know, I don't know about the earth homes,
but what I will say is that exactly to your point,
like the sustainability, the requirement, the ways to live, like
so much of the way we live is just because colonialism,
that's it. For instance, in Grenada, so many of the
ways at home have been built in Grenada. We're just
built off of like traditions of colonialism, taking how they

(45:05):
build homes in England to come and build it the
same way on a tropical island that has hurricanes. Like
these two things don't align, and so so often the
homes get battered and destroyed, destroyed, but then they get
rebuilt the exact same way, and it doesn't consider the
fact that, no, this part of the island, the wind

(45:26):
is coming from this way, don't build this this like this.

Speaker 5 (45:29):
There's a lot of indigenous wisdom that we need to
be taking into account as we figure out how to
adopt arbanized adapt There's just so much knowledge and sometimes
it'll you know it, because we are changing our climate,
it might look like adopting that wisdom, but there is
a lot there, a lot of richness there that we
need to integrate into our government programs, into the way
that we build things, the way that we plan cities

(45:51):
and towns.

Speaker 3 (45:52):
So Ross asks, how do y'all take care of yourselves
as advocates for a place we as a species are destroying.

Speaker 1 (46:01):
Yeah, Honestly, the biggest thing for me is organizing, Like
I don't know, I'm I think there are probably many
young people that are sitting completely isolated, completely anxious, completely
in despair, and I think being able to be in community,
whether it's like I'm involved in the New York City Hub,
being on the national organization of sunrise, like with other
people that are like wrestling and taking action and getting

(46:24):
arrested and like standing up for the things we believed in.
And then there's also the other little things where I'm
like I enjoy reading and meditating and like sometimes I
just want to go out and enjoy life with my
friends and not be so existential about the state of
the world. But I think organizing is the place where
I've been able to like quit or like get out
with my angst. Yeah, manage the anxiety that I have

(46:46):
about the future, because it's it's scary if you really
sit with the level of devastation that's happening, you know,
with the current administration and what we have locked in
around climate change, it is terrifying. And I think, yeah,
or organizing has been the way.

Speaker 4 (47:02):
Yeah, I really agree with that.

Speaker 5 (47:03):
I think like so much of our society is we
are trained or forced to alienate ourselves, like we have
there's so much alien by which I mean like we
are disconnected from our labor, from the nature, Like we
are forced to like numb ourselves to the horrors of.

Speaker 4 (47:19):
What is happening.

Speaker 5 (47:21):
And I think a lot of like capitalists, like self
care is like oh, like don't worry about it, like
protect your peace. That type of vibe I think is
actually like I'm not saying never do that, Like I
also to be clear, like put down my phone close
like fat yeah sometimes yeah, but but if you always
do that, Like to me, the most transformative things of

(47:44):
self care have actually been when I have faced the
grief of the world with other people and have like
I don't know, like Dash and I have like been
in rooms crying together about like what is going on
in the world, and then we're like and we're going
to hold each other through that, and we're going to
choose to fight anyway. And I think that is actually
like the truest form of being able to move through

(48:05):
the difficulty of the world involves facing it and choosing
to fight.

Speaker 4 (48:08):
Not avoiding it. And that's what I kind of organizing
helps me do.

Speaker 1 (48:11):
Yeah. I think the other thing, as a little bookner
is just at looking to history, like I think so
much about my ancestors, enslaved black people and what they
went through in this country and the odds that were overcome,
and thinking about many other movements and the civil rights
movement and young organizers in the student on Violent Coordinating
Committee who were like taking buses into the South and

(48:31):
facing violent like I think, really grounding in history and
being like, actually, history happens and transformation in this country
happens through struggle and being like I'm actually we are
not special and if there's like a lineage that we
lie within, is really grounding for me when there are
moments that feel overwhelming.

Speaker 3 (48:56):
Can you all each tell me what your environment was
like in a real quick way, like what your environment
was that you were raised in They got you here? Yeah,
this trying, yeah for people to understand this is how
these people arrive.

Speaker 1 (49:14):
Yeah, it's interesting. I grew up in Chicago and my
parents met at FedEx. You know, I have memories being
in the break room watching Last.

Speaker 3 (49:20):
Because Fex called me three times while I was recording
this show, really to take a call parents parents.

Speaker 1 (49:30):
That my parents met at FedEx. And then when my
dad wasn't cutting hair, he was a barber, so I
also grew up in a barbershop. And when he wasn't
cutting hair, he was fishing and he would take me.
I have a sister, she didn't come, but he would
take me fishing with him, and it was there.

Speaker 2 (49:42):
Did y'all see the shade. She didn't come.

Speaker 1 (49:44):
No.

Speaker 2 (49:45):
No, I still think about this to this day.

Speaker 1 (49:48):
I'm like, Daddy, why did you invite me?

Speaker 2 (49:49):
Where was sister?

Speaker 1 (49:51):
And it was very pivotal for me. I like didn't
like fishing. We would go to the bait shop and
I was like, worms there, kind of gross. But I
loved being on the water. And my dad was like
had his beer and he was fishing and I was like, Daddy,
are there sharks sitting like this? He's like, no, it's
a lake. And I just like had all these curiosity
and questions and fascination, and so you know, I wanted

(50:11):
to study environmental science and become a marine biologist, and
then got very politicized when I went to college and
studied abroad in this insane rogram where we went to Morocco, Vietnam, Olivia.
It was a climate program. Also during that was learning
about Marx and neoliberalism and how that impacted many countries
across the world and how well that was contributing to climate.

Speaker 3 (50:34):
But was any of this being talked about in your
home or at school?

Speaker 1 (50:39):
It was it was school, in college and study abroad
where I started to like connect the science with the
like systemic issues and I was like, oh, this is
like an issue of.

Speaker 2 (50:48):
Because you know, how to Thumberg started doing the same thing.

Speaker 3 (50:51):
They was like, oh she's wearing a cafe, Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (50:56):
Yeah yeah, and like standing up for like doing organizing
around Palestine now, which is you know, great to see
connecting the climate. But yeah, no, it wasn't like my
parents were activists. They were often like, work really fucking
hard and do what you have to do to be
able to sustain yourself. And it was like being politicized
through these different experiences where I was like, oh, a

(51:16):
lot of the issues because there was also just things
around like food access growing up where I was politicized
around like why is there McDonald's and burging on every
corner and understanding how that connects to like housing discrimination
and capitalism. But yeah, it was the politicization and being like, oh,
a lot of these issues are actually connected to issues

(51:36):
of greed and power and it's like movement that will
address them. So kind of found.

Speaker 4 (51:43):
Yeah, my parents were leftists.

Speaker 5 (51:46):
I told you that my family's from Carola is one
of the very few democratically elected communist governments in the world,
and so it was like very normal for me to
go back home and see like hammers and sickles painted
on things like that was like in India. Yes, it's
a state in India. It's you feel it for me,
Carola k E R A l A. It's also really pretty.

Speaker 4 (52:10):
It's come through. Yeah, it's really cool.

Speaker 5 (52:15):
But but my parents sort of had that had some
of that orientation, and I feel like really raised me
to think of myself as part of a global majority.
Like I remember a lot during the Iraq War like feeling.
I remember this like nightmare that I had when I
was like five or six years old that like George
Bush came to like bomb our school because like what

(52:37):
Because I think the way that my parents thought about
is like these are people who look like us and
like they are Like there was like a sense of
like there is a global majority who is being exploited
by a small number of people. And that was like
something that I grew up very deeply feeling. So Palestine actually,
like I remember my parents like followed BDS when I
was a kid, and I was like I was annoyed

(52:59):
when I was like because I was like, why can't
we get this? They were like no, But I'm on
i'd follow it up, but in seven.

Speaker 2 (53:08):
I love it. Why can't we get this? Also, you
all need to look up Kerala. I'm going to Kerala.

Speaker 4 (53:16):
It's so pretty. It's so nice.

Speaker 2 (53:19):
Yeah, on the water it was giving.

Speaker 4 (53:21):
It's beautiful.

Speaker 5 (53:22):
And that's the other thing too, is I think just
like seeing I don't know, like my grandparents have, like
have a farm there. I think like they're just like
feeling the ways that climate will deeply affect the place.

Speaker 4 (53:36):
That my parents call home.

Speaker 5 (53:37):
There were like these really intense floods in Caroline twenty eighteen,
and that was I was. I joined Sunrise before then,
but when that was the moment where I was like, oh,
this is like not just something I spend my spare
time doing. This is like a life commitment and a
life purpose because it felt so I mean, it was
in my backyard or in my grandparents' backyard, So that

(53:59):
that was a really true insformative.

Speaker 4 (54:00):
Movement for me.

Speaker 2 (54:02):
Thank you for sharing. I appreciate that.

Speaker 3 (54:04):
I always try to get to like the the heart
of people who do this work, because that's what ends
up driving us in general. So we have two more questions.
Carmen asks with memorial day, coming in the flag flying.
How do you convince people that the military is the
biggest polluter in the world.

Speaker 2 (54:24):
Ye're like, are they No?

Speaker 1 (54:26):
I think there are stats that there are. I think
we've done like political, educational, social media around this, that's
pretty clear.

Speaker 5 (54:33):
One thing I always think about with the military is
I'm like people sometimes are like, oh, a federal jobs program.
That's so unrealistic. I'm like, we have a federal jobs program.
It's called the military, and we use it to send
people to kill other people. And what if instead of
doing that, we had a federal jobs program where people
were like building windmills and solar panels and teaching kids.

Speaker 4 (54:57):
And I'm like, that's not actually you.

Speaker 5 (55:00):
That's how I think about like reframing, because I'm like
people doing nations that have that.

Speaker 3 (55:04):
What are there other nations that have federal jobs programs
that are structured in that way?

Speaker 5 (55:09):
I think there are a lot of like like federal
service years. Like I know that my mom did like
a federal service year in India where she like worked in
a hospital for a while.

Speaker 4 (55:21):
Like then, like that was like a thing that a
lot of people do.

Speaker 5 (55:24):
I don't know if it's like everyone does it like
it's it's a lot of like opt in type things,
which the military is also opt in. Well some places, yeah,
I mean it is not always, but yeah, I'm just
like people do in the military for like free college
and free health care, and we can.

Speaker 2 (55:41):
Just give it give it to people without also why.

Speaker 3 (55:45):
And I saw a video the other day where someone
said that they woke up to go to the bathroom
in the middle of the night, and it hit them like, Oh,
we don't take care of our veterans because they're the
best trained to lead a revolution. Mmmmm. I was like,
can you share your bathroom night video? Is more often

(56:06):
because you say in the things she was like, it
just hit me like, oh, that's why we don't take
care of our veterans, Like they have been trained to
only be useful when they're used, and then once they
are no longer used, they if they remained healthy, they
could then be useful against the same government that use them.

Speaker 5 (56:27):
And a lot of them are very radicalized against the government.
I mean, I think this is like a really big
thing that I you know, I'm like, I really want
to talk about the military in a way that doesn't
turn people against the people in the military who are
often like black and brown working class people.

Speaker 2 (56:43):
But that's going to have to happen.

Speaker 3 (56:44):
Yeah, that's going to have to happen a route, because
shame is like the most effective way to get people
to stop doing what they're doing. Yeah, isn't this that,
Like I feel like we should just be able to
be like, here's why it's just better we were like,
that's not a good enough reason. That's not make me
feel bad about doing it, and then I'll stop doing it.

Speaker 1 (57:05):
Shame does move people.

Speaker 3 (57:07):
Shame moves people, particularly in this nation where everything is
so much about optics and like what career you're attached to.

Speaker 5 (57:14):
You know.

Speaker 3 (57:14):
It's like I feel like if people felt like they
could also at the end of the day, if people
felt like they could get resources in another way, they
would not join the military, which is a lot of
reason why those resources are simply just not presented.

Speaker 5 (57:26):
I think that's the key to me, because I'm like,
it's like shame can I think shame often moves people
if you have the resources to make another choice, and
I'm like, if you don't, no amount of like shaming
someone who's like, well, this is like the actual only
choice that makes sense for me, and that's why I'm like,
the alternative is important and talking about the alternative important.

Speaker 3 (57:46):
So our last question comes from Nigel. Nigel, you got
up in here twice today, okay, because this is a
good question. What is the role of technology and all
of this, especially with Generation Alpha and the way the
world is going, And I'm going to tack onto that AI.

Speaker 1 (58:07):
Yeah, it's interesting because I was in this like Politics
of Climate change course and they talk a lot of
there's like a lot of arguments against technology as a
solution of climate crisis. Like in some ways, when you
think about it, the advancement in technology got us like
industrial revolution to the climate crisis, and the unintended consequences
of technology often are so high that it is not

(58:28):
worth it. And I'm thinking about AI specifically, and there's
just like so much information and data coming out around
just like the energy inputs that are needed to fuel
AI and how it's like the water that's needed. I know,
I've seen videos in like Arizona where folks are like,
we don't have water because of this new AI facility,
And so I think technology is often a lazy excuse

(58:51):
for us to actually address at the root the problem,
like we of course there are like technological solutions around,
like solar panels and like things that we need to
do to upgrade our energy systems. And I'm not convinced
that like AI or technology is going to solve the
climate crisis. Like this is a crisis of like economics
and our government and political will and greed, and you

(59:13):
can't like technology your way out of those issues. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (59:18):
Yeah, I mean I think this is like sort of
building off of that. To me, I do think we
need to like invest in technological improvement. And to me,
I'm like it's I was on it. I was like
on a trip to Cuba with Asia actually a year ago,
and we were talking about social media, and in my mind,
social media is just this thing that like pulls people

(59:38):
out of being present in their lives and like like
is so divisive in so many ways and all this,
and then somebody was just like, the reason that social
media is like that in the US is because it
has a profit incentive under capitalism, Yes, and so it
tries to hold your attention all the time. And I
think that's really important with AI as well. I think,
like anything, I'm like, at the end of the day,

(01:00:00):
if you change the fundamental incentives of your economic system.
That these things are just tools, like AI can be
terrible or AI could be a force for good. And
having a government that is actually looking at the whole,
looking at the climate effects, looking at the environmental and
water effects, and also looking at like how could we
unlock this to be a tool for good is what

(01:00:20):
you need in any type of technology, And like, yes,
I really agree with what Daisha saying, like technological development
is not an excuse to dodge the fundamental problems of
power in our society. And also if we have power
in our society, I think we can harness and use
technology in amazing and cool ways. But we don't get
to a lot of oil and gas companies are like yeah, yeah,

(01:00:42):
don't worry about it, carbon capture, and I'm like, that's
not work.

Speaker 1 (01:00:45):
You know, Yeah, we need to stop burning fossil fuels
and you can't. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:00:52):
The last so before we go, just for the sake
of taking us back to seventh, great science named some
fossil fuels.

Speaker 1 (01:01:03):
Yes, you have carbon dioxide, you have method H four.
Those are like two of the biggest pollutants and the way.

Speaker 5 (01:01:13):
You interact with them in your life is usually that
you are using your like for the most gas stoves
guests to heat your house. And also, like you know,
I'm not someone who likes to boil. This all down
to individual choices, like the industries that we run off,
like our built on these things.

Speaker 2 (01:01:33):
Well, y'all, thank you for your movement.

Speaker 3 (01:01:37):
And how can people under thirty five get involved with Sunrise?

Speaker 1 (01:01:43):
Yes, we also have ways for people over thirty five
to get involved as well, a couple of things for folks.
You can check us out on social media. We have
an instagram that shares a lot of the different types
of organizing that we're doing at Sunrise Movement. It's at
Sunrise mbmt. We also have some other things. If you're
under thirty five and you're like, I want to join
the fight to stop the climate crisis in the oligarchy,

(01:02:05):
you can become a member and can I if I
drop some of the stuff in the chat, will people
get that?

Speaker 2 (01:02:11):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:02:12):
Great? Yes, smvmt dot org slash.

Speaker 3 (01:02:16):
Member, smvmt dot org slash member.

Speaker 2 (01:02:22):
Okay, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:02:23):
And then the only other thing is we're about to
launch a campaign in a month, and if folks are
interested in getting a deeper sense of our strategy and
what we're like taking on over the next year. Encourage
folks to sign up for our campaign launch and I
dropped that link in the chat as well.

Speaker 2 (01:02:38):
I'm pretty and just.

Speaker 5 (01:02:39):
To say, like, join your hub, Like I actually get
so much like social joy and purpose from my hub.
Like if you are sitting alone and you're like, I
don't know where to go, like doing this with other
people make so much of a difference.

Speaker 4 (01:02:53):
And we have so many hub across the country.

Speaker 5 (01:02:55):
There's probably one in your city, and if there's not,
we can help you start one.

Speaker 3 (01:03:01):
Did you hear that last part, y'all? She said if
there's not, they can help you start one. And I
think that is the kind of people here in this chat,
folks who don't just want to learn.

Speaker 2 (01:03:15):
And this takes us back full circle.

Speaker 3 (01:03:17):
The Sunrise movement is not about just talking about it,
It's about being about it. So thank you guys so
much for exemplifying that. And y'all you can go to
Sunrisemovement dot org. Go to Sunrise Sunrisemovement dot org and
all the info is there, and again follow them on

(01:03:38):
the instagrams, and thank you guys so much for joining
us and being so you know, effusive with your knowledge.

Speaker 2 (01:03:43):
We really appreciate it.