The Pilgrims Actually Helped the Indians…To Murder

The real story behind Thanksgiving.

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Rob Fox
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Dan Regester
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https://twitter.com/dan_regester

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You. I'm now listening to soft core History.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to softcore History. I'm your
host for the week, Dan Rochester, joined us always by
Robert Fuck.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
What is going on?

Speaker 2 (00:21):
What's up, buddy?

Speaker 1 (00:22):
Not much, just drinking my Christmas beer, having a good.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
Old time holiday week.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
Yeah, it's time to get smashed every day of the week.
Get the tree up already, tree has been up. Oh wow,
tree's been up. This is like week two of the tree.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
I've always been a wait till the end of Thanksgiving.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
Yeah, my wife is weep at the tree up.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
My wife. Fake are real?

Speaker 1 (00:41):
Uh, it's fake. Unfortunately. I prefer a real tree. But
there's so many other living things that I have to
deal with that I just can't fucking can't.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
God forbid. Rory knocks it over bred and Jack.

Speaker 1 (00:57):
A real dog, a real fucking concern. Yeah, it's a Yeah.
One of the kids knocks it over crushes our old dog.
He doesn't die. Dying would actually be preferable, not because
I want the dog to die, but the medical bills
from keeping him alive, and at that point, and.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
It's not even worth it.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
A doggy wheelchair almost certainly his back is barely working
as it is.

Speaker 2 (01:19):
Quality of life just not on point.

Speaker 1 (01:21):
Yeah, I got a massage. His turns out at one
in the morning.

Speaker 2 (01:24):
Oh yeah, he's not making it to the door. He's
pissing and shitting everywhere.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
Yeah. Would we put him down? No, no, you can't out.
My wife's haid that dog since twenty ten.

Speaker 2 (01:35):
So that dog's going to die in her hands shaking, yes.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
Yeah, in her arms. So yeah, at the end of
the day, that the tree killing the dog immediately would
be financially a windfall compared to the alternative. But that's
why it's a fake tree. It's lights plastic. Good to go, Yeah,
heavy timber. What are you doing with the turkey? Uh?
Not much this year, man. I don't want to do

(01:59):
the whole you and go deeper. No, I'm not doing
the whole fucking thing. We're just tossing it in the oven. Yeah, nothing, nothing,
your wife, I do the turkey for sure. What it's
not a good cook also, but even still that the
man cooks the turkey, maybe that is the gentleman's domain.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
Or grill it, smoke it I have, I have not.
It goes in the oven. It's not the guy.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
No, it's still the guy for the oven I have done.
I have spatch cocked it on my grill before, and
I did do. I've done ovens several times as well.
I think spash Cock was the best one I've had.
No matter what you do, do a turkey, it tastes
the exact scent, tastes like turkey. It always sucks. It's
pretty mid It's i mean, the only the only use

(02:46):
of the turkey really to me. It's not even Thanksgiving.

Speaker 2 (02:48):
Day, it's the day after. It's all for sandwiches.

Speaker 1 (02:50):
Sandwiches. That's it. I gotta go get some turkeys. Put
that on the sandwich. The greatest turkey condiment on earth. Turkeys. Well, Thanksgiving,
so that time of year. We always learned in school,
of course about the Pilgrims.

Speaker 2 (03:07):
Yea, and the Indians. Yeah, but what did we actually
learn Squanto? Did you learn about Squanto? I didn't learn
anything about Squanto. I just learned about buckle hats.

Speaker 1 (03:16):
I don't know if Squanto entered my head from school
or just like the public consciousness.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
Well, we're talking about Squanto today. Oh, we're talking about
Squanta today at some point, But like he's not the
main Thook episode.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
Yeah, I mean, I know, I do you know? The
name Squanto is hard to forget. The only other thing
I really know about the Thanksgiving characters.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
Is Quanto is interesting because he's a lookout for himself
number one.

Speaker 1 (03:46):
Yeah, kind of guy, which I respect, a rogue. I
also just know that all the Mayflower people who didn't
die are like their descendants are all the most powerful
people in American history, probably like truly as they.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
I think, like they made the risk to cross the
Atlantic and now their family should reap the rewards.

Speaker 1 (04:08):
Yeah, I think there's like a direct line minimum from
two presidents. It's more than that for sure. But the
two that come to mine off top of my head
are well three four I guess the Atoms and the
Bushes I think are both directly back to the Mayflower. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:25):
I didn't learn anything in school about the fucking families
on the Mayflower. We just learned people went over Plymouth Rock.

Speaker 1 (04:33):
They endured hard times. The one thing you didn't don't learn.
They don't teach you. They're just like they got through
hard times. Everyone died. Well, we'll get to that.

Speaker 2 (04:42):
Yeah, like not everyone I.

Speaker 1 (04:43):
Know, but a lot of fucking a lot of them,
A lot.

Speaker 2 (04:46):
A lot of them died. Today's episode is going to
be kind of a general overview of what led them
to come to Plymouth Rock, who the Pilgrims were, and
it's really gonna be focused through the lens in eye
of William Bradford, okay, who was at one point governor
of Plymouth, because he did write a lot. So he

(05:09):
wrote a lot in his journal, his diary whatever youone
call it diary, it's a diary.

Speaker 1 (05:14):
So that was back when men diary matter.

Speaker 2 (05:18):
If you call it a journal, it's still a diary.

Speaker 1 (05:20):
Yeah, it's a diary. A journal, Well, it's a diary
and you can call it a diary. That's fine. There
was like a year cut off probably post World War Two.
I would have to guess where diaries became gay became
feminine coded, because you go through history, it's like, oh,
Abraham Lincoln's diary, what George Washington's diary, like whatever, it
doesn't matter. But if it's like JFK's diary, you're like,

(05:44):
he get.

Speaker 2 (05:45):
It all started with Anne Frank she fem coded it.

Speaker 1 (05:49):
I think. So, yeah, after that diary really got twelve
year old girl coded.

Speaker 2 (05:53):
William Bradford was born March nineteenth, fifteen ninety to a
wealthy farming family in Yorkshire. His father when he was
just over a year old, and his mother remarried when
he was four. His new stepdad wasn't down to raise
a kid, so he was sent to live with his grandfather,
who had died two years later.

Speaker 1 (06:11):
That's like the equivalent sending the step children away as
the equivalent of like a male lion coming into the
pack because he defeated the old male lion and eating
the cubs. It's just like boarding school. Get the fuck out.
Can't have a threat. I won't eat you because I can't.
Legally I would, but I won't leave for legal reasons only,

(06:32):
So you're gonna go get molested at a boarding school.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
William went back to his mother in step Pops, but
she died later that year in fifteen ninety seven, and
he was sent to work for his two uncles, who
ran their own farm. He gets incredibly sick, doesn't pull
his share for the little family he still has left
at age seven, and instead starts reading books because he's

(06:56):
incapable of physical labor.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
I can relate. It can relate. It sounds like my
kind of guy.

Speaker 2 (07:03):
During this time, he gets really into the Bible. Oh well,
and the separatist branch of the Puritans.

Speaker 1 (07:11):
Can you imagine how much we don't appreciate it enough,
how much the Bible would just like blow the tits
off of anyone reading it in like that thirteen fourteen,
sixteen hundreds, like the in like the stories in it.
Read it now and they're like, this is one hundred

(07:32):
percent true and there's no really no one even doubting
it at that point, and you're just reading it and
you're like, oh my god, this fucking happened.

Speaker 2 (07:39):
It's kind of metal.

Speaker 1 (07:41):
It's crazy. Yeah, you all, I understand if it doesn't
even connect. It's an anthology series.

Speaker 2 (07:48):
Yeah, it's like, man, there's some parts missing here.

Speaker 1 (07:51):
Yeah, but like it really doesn't get respected enough that Like,
if you're just a guy and someone hands you this
book and you don't know any better, and they're like,
everything in this happened. Everything, literally, you're gonna you're to
be like, holy fuck, Like you're gonna be really into
that book. It makes sense now. I assume the English

(08:13):
Civil War comes into play here in some regard. No, no, no, okay.

Speaker 2 (08:18):
At twelve he is invited to see this guy, Reverend
Richard Clifton, give a sermon about the Church of England
needed to eliminate all practices borrowed from the Roman Catholic
Church right to become a more pure religion.

Speaker 1 (08:33):
Because I mean Episcopalian Anglican, which is the same thing
that is Catholic. Light, Like they really did just change the.

Speaker 2 (08:43):
Label gonna be our own church.

Speaker 1 (08:45):
They gotta tear down all I mean, like most they
seized like every Catholic church in England and just made
it Church of England.

Speaker 2 (08:51):
Also, what English Civil War? Are you talking about?

Speaker 1 (08:54):
The English Civil War.

Speaker 2 (08:56):
Forty two to fifty one, fifteen fifty sixteen forty two.
Oh okay, so it was not even remotely close.

Speaker 1 (09:03):
Okay, I was wrong on my dates. I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (09:05):
He would routinely go see Clifton preach against his uncle's wishes,
and eventually came across William Brewster and his secret group
of about fifty or so church reform radicals who met
at his estate called Scrooby Manor. It's a sweet name.

Speaker 1 (09:21):
That's not a bad name. It sounds like it's just
from Scooby doo, But I like it.

Speaker 2 (09:27):
Clifton and Reverend John Robinson led weekly meetings at Brewster's
estate and eventually came to the conclusion that the Church
of England was hopeless and decided they would separate all ties.
This eventually caught the attention of local officials, and much
of the group was arrested and fined for being disobedient
in matters of religion.

Speaker 1 (09:49):
I mean you got to keep in mind too, Like,
can you imagine the mindset of a person in the
early sixteen hundred to late fifteen hundred who is like
this fifteen hundred's church isn't conservative enough? Yeah? Any like,
because I guarantee you the Church of England back then,

(10:11):
would you would like listen to them talking it You
would be like, these are the craziest most conservative, fucking
hardcore religious people ive ever met. And that, but there
were people out there who are like not enough, not enough.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
The people that wanted religious freedom were actually more hardcore.
The Screwby congregation decided, after a few run ins with
the law to leave England for the Dutch Republic. That
a few failed attempts, including an incident where the captain
of the ship turned them.

Speaker 1 (10:39):
Directly over to authorities in the Netherlands. In England, Oh,
in England, but like like they're getting on the boat,
they're trying to get out, and they were like, oh,
he's right here, old he screwballs, is right.

Speaker 2 (10:50):
You can't go to the Netherlands.

Speaker 1 (10:52):
Yeah, yeah, I mean that's the thing, like you couldn't.
A lot of people can't just leave.

Speaker 2 (10:56):
Their country, especially then. Yeah, Bradford and much the congregation.
We're imprisoned and some were even starved. But by the
summer of sixteen oh eight they were able to travel
in smaller groups and escaped to Amsterdam. While William was eighteen.
The group was cash poor after several failed attempts to
leave England and we're living in pretty rough conditions for

(11:18):
nine months finding anything they could for work. They eventually
relocate to the city of Leiden in the neighborhood called
stink Alley. Can't imagine that was great.

Speaker 1 (11:33):
No, No, a.

Speaker 2 (11:35):
Place in sixteen oh eight called stink Alley. Just sound
the whole world smells.

Speaker 1 (11:41):
It just sounds like a that sounds like a Yeah,
I know, the whole world smells like shit. And you
go down that alley and they're still like, oh.

Speaker 2 (11:48):
My God, Jesus christ another level that we cannot comprehend.

Speaker 1 (11:53):
No, we've never smelled anything like that. No.

Speaker 2 (11:58):
In sixteen eleven, Bradford caught a break when he turned
twenty one and was able to claim his family inheritance,
sell the land, buy his own property in the Netherlands
and set up a weaven workshop in Leiden. So I'm
not sure if he had to go back.

Speaker 1 (12:14):
To England or not handle some shit claim it, but
apparently he was just able to get it when he
turned twenty one. Good for him, Good for him, got
a little got a little scratch. Yeah, I'm sure he
probably just sent a letter back. It's probably to someone
in England and was like, Hey, I need an agent
to sell this, blah blah blah. It's basically like the
way I deal with my realtor, except it takes like
twelve months to get to talk like five times.

Speaker 2 (12:38):
It's actually easier back then to talk to somebody. Yeah,
probably any older. Yeah, yeah, I get that. How's that going?

Speaker 1 (12:44):
By the way, Uh, it's not going to sell to
the new Year for sure in this market. Yeah, a
kid us another rate drop, but we'll see how that goes.

Speaker 2 (12:53):
He marries Dorothy May the sixteen year old daughter of
an affluent English couple living in Amsterdam all these twenty
three so not really that big of an age gap
back then. That seems respectable twenty three sixteen.

Speaker 1 (13:05):
No, that's fine, there's much worse. That's that is that
is completely fine for that time period.

Speaker 2 (13:11):
And they don't have their first child, John until four
years later. All right, so she's other age.

Speaker 1 (13:16):
Yeah, she's good to go. I mean he banged her
before that, but certainly, but for the sake of the episode, unproblematic. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:24):
By sixteen seventeen, the Scrooby Congregation was starting to make
plans to establish their own colony in the Americas, fearing
their children were being too influenced by Dutch customs and traditions,
having spent nearly a decade in a foreign country.

Speaker 1 (13:38):
That's really funny that it's like the like what an act,
Like you know people here will be like, O, don't
what the immigrants influence in our culture, But like you're
the immigrant, and you're like, oh, what these goddamn natives
that whose land I'm living on to influence my culture?
That's how it is.

Speaker 2 (13:56):
Yeah, suck by Dick By July sixteen, twenty Robert Bushman
and John Carver negotiated to set up shop in the
Colony of Virginia, which at the time extended as north
as the Hudson River, with a financial group known as
the Merchant Adventurers.

Speaker 1 (14:12):
Which at this point it was still like it was
technically like english Land, but like England did we did it.
We talked about it in the Jamaica episode How Jamaica
Changed Colonialism about how like the English government didn't really
get involved till Cromwell, which was during the English Civil War,
which I inaccurately dated later than this, but before that

(14:34):
it was just like, yeah, we're gonna go set up
shop and it's England technically, but you have no control
over it.

Speaker 2 (14:40):
Fifty separatists, including William and Dorothy May, boarded the speed Well,
which was to meet the Mayflower off the coast of
England to travel across the Atlantic together. They left their
son John with Dorothy May's parents in Amsterdam, believing he
was not strong enough to make the voyage.

Speaker 1 (14:56):
I mean that's fair.

Speaker 2 (14:59):
Yeah, you're go into Mars essentially.

Speaker 1 (15:02):
Yeah, like not everyone it's like guaranteed. I feel like
not everyone who gets on this boat is getting off
of this boat. They knew that.

Speaker 2 (15:10):
Yeah, like we have to start over. Yeah, I have
to build from the ground up. There's nothing there.

Speaker 1 (15:17):
Like you keep John here, get him some ocean air
and feed him as much rabbit meat as you can,
and uh, hopefully he'll be strong enough in a few
years to get over here.

Speaker 2 (15:27):
The Speedball was already starting to fall apart by the
time it met with the rest of the group, and
passengers were transferred over to the Mayflower, making conditions much
more crowded, which is.

Speaker 1 (15:38):
Just great for all the incurable diseases, which is all
of them back then, And we'll get to that. It is.
That's a funny thing too that people don't think about
from that time period. Like if you ever see a
movie or a show or whatever and they show like ships,
all the ships look new, they look great, but like

(16:01):
in truth, like they were absolutely beaters on the ocean,
you know what I mean. Yeah, like shit, that just
did not belong on the sea. But some cheap ass
captain or cheap ass company was like, yeah, she can
go again, we can get one more out of her.

Speaker 2 (16:16):
And Bradford was a bit of a conspiracy theorist when
it came to the speed Well believe in the ship's
owner kept causing the leaks, fearing failure and starvation in America.

Speaker 1 (16:26):
Oh so he was causing the leaks because he's like,
I don't want to do this shit. Fair, I don't
think that's an Look. I don't know anything about the
owner of the speed Well, but it's not the most
unfounded thing I've ever heard.

Speaker 2 (16:38):
N But very funny that even then we had our
own conspiracy theorists. Oh yeah, for everything constantly. Reverend John Robinson,
who didn't even make the initial trip on the Mayflower,
compared the group going to the Americas to the Israelites

(16:59):
leaving Babylon.

Speaker 1 (17:00):
Yep, yep, sure, I was gonna say, it's obviously a
Bible comparison. How do I make us sound as important
as possible?

Speaker 2 (17:07):
The Puritans and Pilgrims even referred to themselves as God's
New Israel. Yeah, boy, and their destiny was to build
a spiritual Jerusalem in the New World. The term pilgrim
is actually derived from Bradford's journal. He calls them Pilgrims
mm hmm, okay. It's a term rooted from the Latin

(17:29):
word peregrinus, meaning traveler or a foreigner from the Bible.

Speaker 1 (17:34):
Okay, so wait, he invented the word pilgrim. I guess
that's what they said. All right, I don't really care
who invented the word, so I'll give it to him.

Speaker 2 (17:44):
I'm gonna give it to him.

Speaker 1 (17:45):
Yeah, I don't it couldn't. Couldn't affect me less, that's
what it's wick, he said, So yeah, let's go with it.
That's good enough for me.

Speaker 2 (17:51):
Finally, what Bradford called a prosperous win allowed the Mayflower
to take off on September sixteenth, sixteen twenty. There were
one hundred and two passengers aboard and thirty crew members
on this ship that was about one hundred feet long
and twenty five feet wide.

Speaker 1 (18:08):
Man, what the fuck do you do if you're just
a passenger?

Speaker 2 (18:12):
Do you say something?

Speaker 1 (18:12):
I noticed?

Speaker 2 (18:13):
They did not even like consider crew people. What do
you mean for any of the statistics. They always just like, oh,
and they had this many crew members. Okay, so just
add that to the total.

Speaker 1 (18:24):
Right.

Speaker 2 (18:26):
They were like, oh, only one person died on the
Mayflower going across. And then they're like, oh, and a
crew member. It's like, just add the numbers. Only one
person crew members not people.

Speaker 1 (18:38):
No, No, that's the help.

Speaker 2 (18:41):
Before this trip, the Mayflower was prominently used as a
vessel to send wine to England from Bordeaux. So it's
never really made like a long journey.

Speaker 1 (18:50):
No, it hasn't even hit open ocean. No, it's just
going across the channel, really.

Speaker 2 (18:55):
Right, just getting getting wine to the English from France.

Speaker 1 (18:58):
Going up the coast. Yeah, it literally has not done
open ocean. It just goes up the coast and across
the channel. Yep.

Speaker 2 (19:05):
The Mayflowers provisions were already quite low when departed in Southampton,
as the passengers had been aboard the ship the entire time,
already feeling worn out in the cramp spaces of a
small ship. The ship's cargo included tools, food, and weapons,
as well as some live animals, including dogs, sheep, goats,

(19:25):
and poultry. The ship also held two small twenty one
foot boats powered by oars or sails, and they also
had artillery pieces aboard.

Speaker 1 (19:36):
I mean, just the amount of like chicken shit and
goat shit alone is probably just disease city.

Speaker 2 (19:47):
The first half of the voyage proceeded over calm seas
and under pleasant skies, then the weather changed.

Speaker 1 (19:55):
When was this like what time of year.

Speaker 2 (19:57):
They left in September, Okay, so they're going to get
there in winter, perfect.

Speaker 1 (20:04):
The best time to set up a camp. It's like
we always say the cold's worse than the heat. Global
cooling kill a lot more people than global warming one thousand,
which historically is literally the case in fact, every time
there's been global warming history. This is not for me
to say, like, I hope the temperature rises three degrees
will it'll be sweet? But I don't think it would.
But uh, like when the ice age ended, life exploded.

(20:28):
Human life exploded, and when the little ice age hit
or like a volcanic eruption hit that like created like
a nuclear winter life shrink.

Speaker 2 (20:38):
Yeah, don't worry. Earth's going to fix itself. A volcano
will go off, will cover the skies, will be cold
as shit.

Speaker 1 (20:46):
Yeah, but it's gonna be that fucking yellow Stone one.
So we're not gonna be great. There were toasted, yeah,
but Africa golden, they're gonna love it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:57):
Then weather changed, with continuous storms themselves against the ship
and huge waves constantly crashing against the top side deck.
In the midst of one storm, William Button, a young
indentured servant, of physician Samuel Fuller died and was buried.

Speaker 1 (21:13):
At sea, tossed overboard.

Speaker 2 (21:16):
Another unnamed crew member died as well, and they were
the only two deaths on the trip itself.

Speaker 1 (21:24):
I would like to kind of quibble with your facts there.
The crew member was not unnamed.

Speaker 2 (21:37):
Who was the crew member?

Speaker 1 (21:38):
He didn't have a name. You're right, yeah, just hand, yeah, hand.

Speaker 2 (21:43):
Everyone in the ship is a hand. During another storm,
John Howland was washed overboard, but a crew member threw
a rope which Holland managed to grab and he was
safely poured back on.

Speaker 1 (21:56):
Board thanks hand. The hand. The hand doesn't always have
to do the main thing the hand does on a boat.

Speaker 2 (22:02):
They're not always cranking. Sometimes they're pulling.

Speaker 1 (22:04):
Yeah, I could do other hand stuff too. Well. It's
pulling either way, as it's pulling rope one way or
the other. You're right, yeah, yeah, but as long as
he's doing it.

Speaker 2 (22:12):
In mid ocean, the ship came close to being totally
disabled and might have had to return to England or
risk sinking. A storm damaged its main beam, but luckily
one of the colonists had a metal jackscrew that he
had purchased in Holland to help in the construction of
a new settler home. They used it to secure the beam,
which kept it from cracking.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
Further. Have you ever seen videos and shit of I
always enjoyed with my feet filled all that of uh,
you know, just like ships in the like modern ships
in the Indian Ocean or like the Atlantic, just taking
fucking beatings in the ocean.

Speaker 2 (22:46):
Yeah, how tall the waves get. I it's terrifying.

Speaker 1 (22:51):
Would be there would be no shit left in my
body to fill my pants after like twenty minutes of that.

Speaker 2 (22:58):
Well there's no food, so nothing's really coming out.

Speaker 1 (23:01):
Yeah, my assholes, just like just a puff like that
is the most terrifying fucking shit. Like even on a
modern boat where I would know where, I would know like, oh,
this thing just won't sink, like they've they've mapped it out.
This thing is not getting clocked. Even on that type

(23:21):
of boat, I would be like, oh my god, Oh
my fucking god. Like a boat where you also know
that like you can send a signal and then like
within an hour, like helicopters will be there or something like.
Even on a boat like that, I would just be
truly like shitting. And also I get I get horrifically seasick.
So it would just be a human pyrotechnic show.

Speaker 2 (23:44):
Yeah, coming out of both ends.

Speaker 1 (23:46):
Oh my god, piss, shit, puke everything. That's the thing. Actually,
I don't know if you know this. Have you ever
seen people who take like Antarctic cruises? No, so there's
this spot. I think it's between South America and Antarctica. Basically,
I think it's Drake's passage for Sir Francis and uh,

(24:08):
essentially it's like not recording artist, no, no, no, but
he could take he could claim it if he was.
It's either like the calmest, flattest water you've ever seen,
like it looks like a pond, or it is just
abysmal chopping, like to the point where you will not
enjoy your cruise for like five straight days if you
get it bad, like if you get it at the

(24:30):
bad time, Yeah, you're just getting crushed.

Speaker 2 (24:32):
If all else fails, will go down to the Caribbean,
go work on a boat, and then when tours come
and whenever they want to go out to fish or
you know, do a little boost cruise.

Speaker 1 (24:43):
I'd be like, nah, sorry, too much chop, too much chop.
I wish people were talking about flat as hell's job.
I wish people would say that that happened on my honeymoon.
They took us out when there was too much.

Speaker 2 (24:52):
Shop and both of you were just hurling everywhere.

Speaker 1 (24:57):
I had to sit in the middle front of the
boat too, because one time I got up to pee.

Speaker 2 (25:02):
Oh you, little Tommy hurt.

Speaker 1 (25:04):
Yeah, even within thirty seconds of walking to the bathroom.
A grown man a ready to puke navigate the seas,
come on, I would not be able to. I would
be you know, I don't know which my ancestors did it,
but I'd still be in Ireland.

Speaker 2 (25:16):
I definitely. I think just let the beard a lunk
could do it.

Speaker 1 (25:20):
Yeah, what's good with you too, is you could pass
for either Caribbean boatman or New England seamen because like
you look good in a tank top, thank you. But
with that beard, boy, like a turtle neck sweater, a
striped turtle neck sweater, I'll be perfect.

Speaker 2 (25:41):
Oh yeah, definitely being a Wes Anderson movie.

Speaker 1 (25:44):
Yeah yeah. A baby was born during the trip and
they eventually named it Oceanis Hopkins. That's horrific. That's just
name it, Brayden.

Speaker 2 (25:57):
That's at a certain point, just name it anything but Osceiana's.

Speaker 1 (26:01):
That's fucking horrific. Also horrific. Uh giving birth on that boat.

Speaker 2 (26:07):
Can't imagine it was pleasant. No Oh dude, having to
like hear her too. If you're another passenger.

Speaker 1 (26:13):
Everyone heard it. It's terrible the whole unless it's not
a big boat. Unless the storm was raging, that's the
only way you're not hearing it. It was just constant thunderclass.

Speaker 2 (26:23):
You're waiting for a wave to take you anywhere else. Yeah,
like please kill me.

Speaker 1 (26:27):
Oh like, oh my god, shut the fuck up.

Speaker 2 (26:30):
On November nineteenth, sixteen twenty, they spotted present day Cape Cod.
They spent several days trying to sail south to their
planned destination of the Colony of Virginia, where they had
obtained permission to settle from the Company of Merchant and
Adventurers of London, but the strong winter seas forced them
to return to the harbor of Cape Cod Hook known

(26:50):
today as Providence Down Harbor, and they set an anchor
on November twenty. First William described the scene, being thus
in good harbor and brought safe to land, they fell
upon their knees and blessed the God of Heaven, who
had brought them over the vast and furious ocean and
delivered them from all perils and miseries thereof again to

(27:14):
set their feet on the firm and stayble Earth, their
proper element. I don't know if I could actually live
back then and listen to these assholes talk no, no,
like I'm a mushmouth as is this is tough, they'd
be like that simple boy can't speak.

Speaker 1 (27:31):
Yeah, but there's like talking like Yoda, right even or
even like go back to just to use an example
from our Patreon episode about death by Lightning, like if
I was like walking around in Deadwood era and they're
talking like that, I'd just be like, uh, I'd be
like Beavis or but I'd be like, uh, okay, cool

(27:55):
bet yeah, Like I'd like, I don't I don't know,
I don't know what to say.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
The Mayflower Compact was signed that day, Bradford being one
of the first to sign. So that was kind of
like the you know, rules and regulations, the government charter.

Speaker 1 (28:12):
Yeah, what they were going to establish. By the way,
two things. One, I didn't realize this when you said it,
but they only finished the trip minus one nice two
crew counts. No, but I no but they lost too,
but then they gained one. Oh you're right, Yeah, they

(28:32):
only finished minus one and really even because I don't
want to count the crew.

Speaker 2 (28:37):
Yeah, it's honestly a wash. Yeah, a literal wash.

Speaker 1 (28:40):
And then the second thing is that can you imagine
you've been on that boat and it's been a fucking
nightmare and it's horrible and you just want to get
off the boat. And then you have to sail around
for like eight days looking at land and not getting off.

Speaker 2 (28:56):
Oh, it's even better because like most of the people
don't get off the boat for a long time.

Speaker 1 (29:00):
Yeah, so they don't have like shelter. The boat's the
only shelter you.

Speaker 2 (29:04):
Have to send an expedition for us.

Speaker 1 (29:06):
It's like you've been on the highway.

Speaker 2 (29:07):
You have to figure out what we're gonna set up, you know,
your camp anyhow, Yeah, you need to find like a
strategic location.

Speaker 1 (29:13):
It was also winter. It's cold in New England. In
New England. It's not great they missed the fall. It
would have been so magical if they'd gotten there in October.

Speaker 2 (29:22):
Oh, dude, leaves changing, Oh beautiful. During the first expedition
on foot, Bradford got caught in a deer trap made
by Indians and was hauled nearly upside down.

Speaker 1 (29:33):
Oh you got yep, that's awesome.

Speaker 2 (29:38):
During the third expedition, a winter storm nearly sank their
boat as they approached the bay, but they managed to
land on Clark's Island, suffering from severe exposure to the
cold and waves.

Speaker 1 (29:49):
Yeah, that's another thing too, Like obviously one hundred percent
understandable to set up at a harbor, like even set
up your town at a harbor, because like it's something
like eighty or ninety percent of human beings live near
a body of water, whether it be like a river
or an ocean or a lake. But like it's cold
as fuck. There are zero homes and you're next to

(30:11):
the Atlantic Ocean, so you were getting blasted with wind.
It's not even just cold, right, It's not even like
I was about you know, I was gonna say in college,
but you wouldn't relate because you went to college in Florida.
But like growing up, it's one thing if it's cold,
if it's like twenty eight degrees, but it's if it's
still you can kind of like deal with it fine.

(30:32):
When the wind is going, it's a living hell. It's
like twenty degrees cold. I mean obviously like windshill, but
like it is a living, fucking hell. Going to college
in the middle of Missouri. There was like a mark
it would be the same temperature in Saint Louis and Columbia.
There was a marked difference in how much warmer Saint
Louis was at the same degree because there were more

(30:52):
buildings and it stopped the wind, whereas instead you're in
the middle of the fucking count there's nothing but farmland
for miles around one hundred miles around, and it is
just blasting when the entire like walking to class in December,
it was a fucking nightmare.

Speaker 2 (31:07):
They explored the bay and found a suitable place for settlement,
now the site of downtown Plymouth, Massachusetts. The location featured
a prominent hill, ideal for a defensive fort. There were
numerous brooks providing fresh water, and it had been the
location of an Indian village, so a lot of the
area had been cleared for planting crops like.

Speaker 1 (31:28):
Where they still played. Again, they're just like, hey, we
found one of their dumb fields and it's winter, so
there's nothing growing now.

Speaker 2 (31:33):
This specific group of the Wampanoague tribe had been wiped
out by a plague in sixteen sixteen to sixteen nineteen. Okay,
Wampanoague was kind of like the tribe they interact with
the most there, Okay, I think I'm saying it rent.

Speaker 1 (31:48):
It doesn't matter all every I feel like everything in
Massachusetts in particular, maybe with the exception of the name Massachusetts,
but I don't know everything. It's like hyper unpronounceable. Is
because those Native Americans had insane names. I think it's
also just like spelled out they they pineticized it, I

(32:10):
think so.

Speaker 2 (32:10):
I think it's w A M p A n o
ag wamp oak.

Speaker 1 (32:15):
Yeah, that sounds right. Yeah, but like all the Massachusetts things,
like obviously like Westminster is British, but like Chapiquittic that feels.

Speaker 2 (32:25):
Like and then you have to deal with their accents now. Yeah,
the Boston said, yeah, chabaquitic Wampanagg.

Speaker 1 (32:31):
Yeah, going down to Weaponagg.

Speaker 2 (32:34):
When the exploring party made their way back on board,
William learned of the tragic death of his wife, who
fell overboard off the deck of the Mayflower Door in
his absence. Some speculate that she may have committed suicide.

Speaker 1 (32:48):
Now she fell overboard and drowned.

Speaker 2 (32:52):
Yeah, okay, anchorchip.

Speaker 1 (32:56):
Hmmm.

Speaker 2 (32:57):
Interesting, So she.

Speaker 1 (32:58):
Didn't say anything, although I will say if you hit
that water, it's hard to get breath in your lungs
get back up. Well, just it's so fucking cold it
knocks the wind out of you. But let's be totally
clear here. This is pre nineteen twenty, so even just
falling into the cold water for thirty seconds might kill you.

Speaker 2 (33:17):
Yeah, but I don't know if she's just gonna like randomly.

Speaker 1 (33:21):
Fall in bay no over a What was she doing? Yeah?
What were you doing?

Speaker 2 (33:27):
Was she dancing?

Speaker 1 (33:28):
Yeah? Was she fucking shit? Probably not drunk. Did they
even have alcohol? I feel like they seem had to
have had alcohol. They seem like the sober type.

Speaker 2 (33:35):
You're right, but back then alcohol just seems cleaner than water.

Speaker 1 (33:40):
So they might be the type of thing where it's
like they don't get drunk, but ale for breakfast type
of situation.

Speaker 2 (33:45):
Maybe yeah, maybe're drinking wine at the church.

Speaker 1 (33:49):
Uh oh, that's Roman Catholic.

Speaker 2 (33:51):
They're on a rod boat.

Speaker 1 (33:53):
Yeah, but they refitted it for Jesus.

Speaker 2 (33:57):
Yeah, I don't know. Jesus kind of gets down. Oh,
I know.

Speaker 1 (34:01):
I don't know how you can look at the Bible
and literally see Jesus drinking wine and be like alcohol's wrong.

Speaker 2 (34:07):
In nowhere in the Bible dos to say that jesus
first miracle gave people more power.

Speaker 1 (34:12):
Booze booze.

Speaker 2 (34:13):
The Mayflower arrived in Plymouth Bay on December twentieth, sixteen twenty.
The settlers began building the colony's first house on Christmas.

Speaker 1 (34:23):
Day, a present for someone, not everyone.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
Their efforts were slowed when a widespread sickness struck the settlers.
The sickness had begun on the ship on January eleventh,
sixteen twenty one. Bradford was helping to build houses when
he was suddenly struck with a great pain in his
hip bone and collapsed. It was feared that he would
not last the night.

Speaker 1 (34:49):
Is how sickness hits. I guess he's like, he's just like, oh, smallpox.
He did make a recovery, though, what do you what
are these people like? He's like, oh, he's got hit paid.
I don't think he's gonna make the night.

Speaker 2 (35:02):
By the end of winter, half of the hundred settlers
had died suffering and outbreak of a contagious disease described
as a mixture of scurvy, pneumonia, and tuberculosis.

Speaker 1 (35:14):
Okay, I mean great pneumonia you just get from being sick,
right like, It's like your immune system gets weak. He
and pneumonia funny.

Speaker 2 (35:23):
They got scurvy In an attempt to hide their weakness
from the Native Americans who might be watching them. The
settlers buried their dead in unmarked graves on Cole's Hill,
often at night, and made efforts to conceal their burials.

Speaker 1 (35:37):
I was hoping that you were going to say they
put their dead bodies up as centuries. No, like human scarecrows,
you just tie a musket to their hand.

Speaker 2 (35:49):
I mean, honestly, maybe a better idea, I cut right.
Let's see, we would have crushed back then, we would
have taken over the world. During the epidemic, there were
only a small number of men who remained healthy and
bore the responsibility of Karen for the sick. One of
those was Captain Miles Standish, a soldier who had been

(36:11):
hired by the settlers to coordinate the defense of the colony.

Speaker 1 (36:15):
So was he even a believer or was he just
a mercenary?

Speaker 2 (36:18):
He's a mercenary. He's a hired gun, so.

Speaker 1 (36:20):
He's just kind of like, oh my god, these people
are fucking dumb sort of.

Speaker 2 (36:23):
But Standish cared for Bradford during his illness and that
started a lifelong friendship two men.

Speaker 1 (36:30):
Now, let me apply a modern historian's lens to this. Gay.

Speaker 2 (36:39):
Everything's gay, right?

Speaker 1 (36:40):
Gay?

Speaker 2 (36:41):
Yeah? He's hand? Hand?

Speaker 1 (36:45):
Was he a hand? It's like, oh, two men were
close to each other. They banked, had to they banked.

Speaker 2 (36:49):
If we're gonna write it for TV, now, gotta be gay.

Speaker 1 (36:52):
If it's if they don't outright penetrate each other, the
undertones have to be deafening. M Like they want to.

Speaker 2 (37:01):
Get to stare into each other's eyes for constantly an
incredibly uncomfortable amount of.

Speaker 1 (37:07):
Timesh Yeah, and that's how you be a modern pop historian.
On the left, what if but gay?

Speaker 2 (37:20):
On March sixteenth, the settlers had their first meet him
with the American Indians in the region when Samoset walked
into the village of Plymouth as a representative of Massachut
and the Wampan'agus.

Speaker 1 (37:35):
Yeah, so Massachusetts named after them.

Speaker 2 (37:37):
I assume he had learned some English from fishermen and trappers.
In Maine, and he walked into the settlement and said,
welcome Englishmen. So caught them off guard. Oh my surprise.

Speaker 1 (37:49):
Yeah, that's like an alien walking up, I mean, like hello.

Speaker 2 (37:55):
It was during this meeting that the Pilgrims learned how
the previous previous residents of the area had died of
an epidemic, maybe a cursed land.

Speaker 1 (38:05):
I mean they are literally setting up I mean over
their graves, setting up on an Indian burial ground.

Speaker 2 (38:12):
Not great, It's not.

Speaker 1 (38:13):
A good start.

Speaker 2 (38:14):
Samoset spent the night in Plymouth and agreed to arrange
a meeting with their chief, Massa Suit, who himself came
into the colony on March twenty second. Massa Suit was
cautious about the Pilgrims, as several men of his tribe
had already been killed by English sailors, not the people
of Plymouth, but they've encountered in English.

Speaker 1 (38:36):
The passers through. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:39):
He also knew that the Pilgrims had taken some of
corn stores in their lands.

Speaker 1 (38:43):
They stole their corn. Yeah, desperate times.

Speaker 2 (38:49):
His right hand man that you mentioned earlier, Squanto, had
been abducted in sixteen fourteen by English explorer Thomas Hunt.
And had spent five years in Europe, first as a
slave for a group of Spanish monks, then as a
freeman in England. He had returned to New England in

(39:10):
sixteen nineteen acting as a guide to explore Captain Robert Gorges.
But massa Suit and his men massacred the crew of
that ship and took Squanto for themselves as a slave.
I guess maybe initially, but he kind of integrated into
the tribe, kind of became his counsel.

Speaker 1 (39:32):
I mean, an interpreter's pretty handy. You're like, I'm pretty
sure more of these assholes are coming by.

Speaker 2 (39:37):
Yeah, this dude had a pretty interesting life. We'll probably
do an episode on Squanto.

Speaker 1 (39:41):
Yeah, one hundred percent of his years in England slave
for Spanish monks and got to England somehow. Real quick.
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Speaker 2 (42:11):
Ultimately, they signed a treaty with John Carver, the governor
of Plymouth at the time, and Massa Suit believed it
was in their best interest to develop allies to help
battle against the Narroworgantics tribe who was encroaching on their
land and trying to absorb the Wampanoagues.

Speaker 1 (42:30):
Now I was told that we taught them how to
be violent.

Speaker 2 (42:36):
H No, now they they had another trib kind of
coming in on their territory.

Speaker 1 (42:43):
Yeah, by the way, another thing, I want to do
a full episode on it. But another thing, And I
actually didn't know this, so I'm an ignorant piece of
shit that people don't realize. Is like, because you kind
of think of the Aztecs and I think they use
a lot of like stone weapons and stuff like that.
So like there's not a lot of talk of like
a Native American metalworking, but they actually did. They were

(43:05):
like I would call it like bronze age, like especially
up in Michigan and stuff like that. But they traded
copper all the way down through Mexico more obviously, Like
I don't know, it's just annoying whenever any any party
flattens the complex nature of Native American or just human culture,

(43:26):
human being. Yeah, yeahah, people.

Speaker 2 (43:29):
Being a little bit more complex and nuanced.

Speaker 1 (43:32):
Weird, weird. They were neither. They were neither noble savages
or I guess the other side would just be like
savage savages, like I don't know.

Speaker 2 (43:43):
The treaty ensured that each people would not bring harm
to one another and that they would come to each
other's aid in time of war against the or organics. Squanta,
being a man that knew both cultures incredibly well, would
often use this to his advantage and play both sides.

Speaker 1 (43:59):
That is funny by the way, they're like, you, you
will come help us fight our enemies. There's like fifty
of them. They're like, okay, God, just give us corn.

Speaker 2 (44:10):
Like we got some guns. I guess we'll share. You
had a shoot, Yeah, we've got to. We've we've got
a smartillery, We've got.

Speaker 1 (44:16):
A canon the size of a tennis ball holder, and
uh five buskets. We'll see what we could do.

Speaker 2 (44:23):
So he would play both sides, receive rewards and gifts
for information that he gave to both the natives and
the people Plymouth. He also showed the Plymouth colony how
to plant manage corn and was a valuable interpreter.

Speaker 1 (44:37):
See we learned that in school he taught them how
to plant corn. Squanta, I like to I like to
imagine that the pilgrims actually just didn't know how to
plant anything. He was like, ground grow.

Speaker 2 (44:50):
Eventually, Uh, we're not really gonna cover this, but massa
Suit and Squanto beef because he finds out the Squanto
is kind of a snake. Yeah, it's just looking out
for number one. So the Plymouth colony kind of hides
Squanto protects Squanto. He eventually dies of a fever because
Massa Suit wanted to like he put a hit on

(45:11):
his head.

Speaker 1 (45:12):
Nice, I just it is funny to me. He's like,
here's how you plant corn? What do you mean one
of the guys was a farmer? What do you mean
he doesn't know how to plant? It speaks a lot
to them, not just I'm not like I don't know
if there's like a I'm sure there's a better way
to grow corn than we eat, et cetera. But like
it feels like they should have gotten the gist of it.

Speaker 2 (45:33):
Yeah, no, I think he I mean they just didn't
know what corn was.

Speaker 1 (45:36):
Yeah, so they figured it out. Did you know that
corn is not corn? So corn as you know it?
Corn on the cop that's a European word in English,
where it used to prior to modern times, it used
to just mean like the staple crop of the area. Sure,

(45:58):
corn could be anything, so mace whatever you want called
maze is corn. But like corn was just a word
for like, oh, this is Bordeaux corn, this is Belgium's corn,
this is like Bavaria's corn. This is mainly what they
grow here.

Speaker 2 (46:12):
Native plant.

Speaker 1 (46:13):
Yeah, yeah, fun fact.

Speaker 2 (46:16):
In April and sixteen twenty one, Governor Carver collapsed while
working the fields on a hot day. He died a
few days later, and the settlers of Plymouth then chos
Bradford as the new governor, a position which he retained
off and on for the rest of his life.

Speaker 1 (46:33):
Vote for Bradford, he knows how to plant corn.

Speaker 2 (46:37):
During this time, Edward Winslow and Susannah White both lost
their spouses during the harsh winter of sixteen twenty to
sixteen twenty one, and the two became the first couple
to be married in Plymouth, Ah. Governor Bradford presided over
the civil ceremony. I think you know, so they bang
and Mary immediately after their spouses died.

Speaker 1 (46:58):
They were lonely. What are they to do?

Speaker 2 (47:01):
Yeah, I mean, and no one's gonna judge you at
that point.

Speaker 1 (47:05):
You're living on the moon.

Speaker 2 (47:08):
You gotta find somebody to bang. And also the racetio
is not good. No, there's so many more men than women.

Speaker 1 (47:13):
He the guy who lost his wife, was like, I
gotta lock that down.

Speaker 2 (47:16):
Before someone else does, because yeah, it's three to one.

Speaker 1 (47:19):
Dude. He was like, good He's like, I would like,
I guess ideally it would be sweet to wait for
goodie Rachel. But she's only nine and I got a
way at least three years to hit that, and you know,
who knows what's gonna happen between now and then.

Speaker 2 (47:34):
Women in Plymouth Colony had more extensive legal and social
rights compared to seventeenth century European norms. Plymouth women enjoyed
extensive property and legal rights, and could be signatories on contracts.
A wife in Plymouth could not be written out of
her husband's will and was guaranteed a full third of
the family's property upon his death.

Speaker 1 (47:56):
Yeah. I'm not impressed by that. And I'll tell you
why they did it. Because they had to.

Speaker 2 (48:03):
Yeah, no, it was a necessity.

Speaker 1 (48:04):
Yeah, this was not like, this not progressive. This is
not nobility. Yeah, it's not progressive. It was just like, well,
there's only fifty of us and everyone's doing the same job. Like, look,
we would love to give you less, but it's just
not in the cards.

Speaker 2 (48:18):
In early October sixteen twenty one, a feast was celebrated
by the fifty three surviving Pilgrims, along with Massachut and
ninety of his men. The celebration lasted three days and
featured numerous types of waterfowl, birds, wild turkeys, and fish
procured by the colonists, and five deer brought by the

(48:39):
wamping oaks.

Speaker 1 (48:39):
Oh so really you should be eaten deer.

Speaker 2 (48:43):
Get me some venice at Venice and for Thanksgiving.

Speaker 1 (48:46):
I fucked this turkey shit.

Speaker 2 (48:50):
In May sixteen twenty two. Even duck, by the way,
you give me a duck, turduck in whatever.

Speaker 1 (48:55):
Not goose is terrible. Have you heard goose to the
job Maden the tur ducan? Yeah, but then added, you
know a deer carcass. I would say he's just swapped
the chicken. Chicken and turkey is a hat on a hat.

Speaker 2 (49:08):
Chickens better than turkey. Swam out the turkey.

Speaker 1 (49:12):
Now keep the turkey. Put some venison on top of it,
like some venison steaks. Over the Turkey, So the venison
juices soak into the turkey and make it taste less
like turkey. Why not.

Speaker 2 (49:24):
In May sixteen twenty two, a vessel named the Sparrow
arrived carrying seven men from the Merchant Adventurers, whose purpose
was to seek out a site for a new settlement
in the area. Two ships followed shortly after, carrying sixty settlers,
all men.

Speaker 1 (49:39):
Just total sausage chest. Yeah see again, that's why that.

Speaker 2 (49:43):
Dude had to lock it down, had got to lock
it down. They spent July and August in Plymouth before
moving north to settle in Weymouth, Massachusetts, at a settlement
which they named wes Augustt.

Speaker 1 (49:56):
I guess see again, all of those names terrible Indian,
Like the Indians up there just had the wildest names, right,
like Shawnee Sue. That's easy Apache. But for whatever reason,
in the Northeast, the names were out of control.

Speaker 2 (50:13):
Yeah, it's why.

Speaker 1 (50:18):
I mean, even if you in like if you showed
someone who had never seen the word before the name Iroquois,
even that would be a broomstick in their bicycle. Spoke
like you just they wouldn't get it right.

Speaker 2 (50:34):
The mighty Susquehanna.

Speaker 1 (50:36):
It's just impossible.

Speaker 2 (50:40):
Reports reached Plymouth of a military threat to Wesugussett and
Miles Standish organized the militia to defend.

Speaker 1 (50:48):
Them, so eight guys with the Muscots.

Speaker 2 (50:51):
However, he found that there had been no attack, so
he decided on a preemptive strike, an event called Standish's Raid.
He lured two prominent Massachusetts military leaders into a house
at Wessugusst. Under the pretense of sharing a meal and
making negotiations. Standish and his men then stabbed and killed them.

(51:13):
Standish and his men pursued a local chief, but he
escaped with three prisoners from Wessugusst.

Speaker 1 (51:20):
Jesus Christ. So they weren't doing anything. Were they were
not at war? Nope, And he just murders two dudes.

Speaker 2 (51:26):
Yep, dude, he wanted some. He's kind of been at
bay the entire time. They've been chill.

Speaker 1 (51:34):
Standish is board. He hasn't had anything to do.

Speaker 2 (51:36):
Yeah, so hammer needs a nail, Honestly. Where quickly spreading
on the indigenous tribes of Standish's attack, and many natives
abandoned their villages and fled the area they ran.

Speaker 1 (51:50):
There's fifty of them, and they don't eat good.

Speaker 2 (51:53):
The pilgrims lost the trade in furs, which they had
enjoyed with the local tribes and which was their mains
of income for paying off their debts to the merchant adventures.

Speaker 1 (52:03):
And that's not it should go. It always sounds this
way when you read it in the history book, Like
I remember reading it as a kid. I mean, like, well,
who cares about a beaver fur? That is bitcoin back then? Yeah,
Oh my god, that's so valuable. It is unbelievably valuable.

Speaker 2 (52:22):
Rather than strengthen their position, Standish raid had disastrous consequences
for the colony. The only positive effect of his raid
seemed to be an increased power of the Massachuit led
Wampanogue tribe, so their closest ally in the region actually
gains more power.

Speaker 1 (52:40):
They didn't piss off all the Indians.

Speaker 2 (52:41):
No, they didn't piss off the guys that they had
Thanksgiving dinner with. Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, we're just
good allies.

Speaker 1 (52:47):
Yeah, and they were very happy to have us do it,
I'm sure. Yeah, yeah, Like they're like, huh sweet, these
guys a rule them. Glad to her allies with them,
this will never backfire.

Speaker 2 (52:57):
And I mean there's obviously, you know, fifty more years
or so of like Indian wars and all these different
things that come from this, and more and more people
come to the America's that's for another time.

Speaker 1 (53:09):
I wonder. I wonder if warfare between native tribes kicked
up after contact just because more money was flowing in
from like fur trades and stuff.

Speaker 2 (53:23):
The Dutch East India Company who kind of enters the
fold and they start fucking around with all the pilgrims
and all the colonists. We like they battle them, okay,
oh shit, the English and the Dutch Gold War and
stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (53:36):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, because we take New Amsterdam, the
English take New Amsterdam and it becomes New York. But
like like all the French fur trappers and stuff like
that who were along the sort of American Canadian border
and up in Canada and people in that area too,
like the like, I just I just sort of assume
that the native tribes, once they get collected to or

(53:58):
connected to the global economy and more, like more money
starts pouring in, if they don't start getting like, oh
we need we need to go get more resources so
we can make even more money.

Speaker 2 (54:13):
Yeah, especially when all the French enter the fold.

Speaker 1 (54:16):
Yeah, they start attacking each other because they're like, we
need more land to probably like lead, Yeah, either to
get stuff ourselves or to like lease out to these
fucking Europeans who want to go hunt on it or
trap on it.

Speaker 2 (54:30):
But I figured we get all the way up to
Thanksgiving a little laughter standish kind of.

Speaker 1 (54:33):
A dickhead kind of you know, ruffle some feathers, idle hands,
ruffle some Indian feathers. It's racist, dare you? But they
probably did wear feathers. They did wear feathers. Yeah, I'm
sure it's cool looking. That's the funny thing about. I
guess it's like they just get mad at white people
for doing it. But a head dress is actually sweet,
sweet as fuck. Yeah, like I would personally, I get well,

(54:57):
especially because the Vikings didn't actually wear it.

Speaker 2 (55:00):
I would put the horns.

Speaker 1 (55:01):
Yeah, I would put head dress over horns any day
of the week.

Speaker 2 (55:04):
Drink out of a horn, though, you.

Speaker 1 (55:05):
Yeah, you drink out of a horn, certainly, that's wonderful.
Drink kind of a ram horn, that's dope. Oh yeah.
But the head dresses, that's a look little face paint.
Yeah it's rat. Get you going, It's fucking cool. And yeah,
that's just kind of some background on Pilgrims Bradford, who

(55:26):
was a you know, major player in the area, and
what led up to Thanksgiving and how Thanksgiving came to
be Happy Thanksgiving, y'all, Happy Thanksgiving. What did I learn today?
What did you learn today? I learned that we killed
on the Indians behalf.

Speaker 2 (55:43):
Yeah, we didn't. We didn't turn on them. We helped
our bros out.

Speaker 1 (55:47):
Yeah, there were some who were our bros, some were
who are who weren't, and we killed the ones who
weren't in a way we were great friends.

Speaker 2 (55:56):
Wasn't unprovoked. We were being good.

Speaker 1 (55:58):
Friends to the Indians, some of the Indians.

Speaker 2 (56:01):
Yeah, yeah, it's our boys.

Speaker 1 (56:04):
Yeah. I mean it's the equivalent, honestly literally of being like, whoa,
he must hate white people. He killed that French guy
and he's like, well, there were he was allies with England,
so makes total sense. Actually why he would stab a friend.

Speaker 2 (56:18):
They really brain that into his head. Jump They're like, yeah,
I know you know nothing about this group of people,
but we fucking hate them, and so should you.

Speaker 1 (56:27):
I mean, if I'm making new friends, and I need
to make friends, do you know what I mean? Like,
it's not like a oh maybe I'll you know, like
I don't. It's not like a situation where it's like
you're out at a bar and some guy you're just
harded some guy or whatever, it's like, yeah, he's cool.
It's like you're it's your first day of high school
and you don't know anyone and three dudes decide to
be friends with you. Yeah, and they're like, hey, see

(56:50):
that guy over there, he fucking sucks ass. And but
you don't have any other friends, so you don't know
anything about that guy, but you don't care because as
far as you're concerned, you just want to have friends.
So you're like, yeah, that guy does fucking suck ass.
Look at him, look at his pants. Who's today's oler? Uh?

(57:12):
The owner of that one boat? Maybe for the first
the speed well the speed yeah uh? Or maybe uh
those those tricky Indians for tricking us into killing other Indians.
Yeah yeah, massachute. As I always say, no foreign wars,

(57:33):
keep them, keep us out of it. Yeah, it's not
our business. No. Actually a massive interventionalist, but uh interventionist
send it overseas Sandy, Sandy, do he's fucking Globo's cook
rather rather a Taiwanese person pick up a gun than

(57:53):
my kids. We need them chicks. Yeah, uh yeah. It's
either a massachute, that's his name, massa Suit, massa Suit.
It's either massive suit or the owner of that shitty boat.
What about a step.

Speaker 2 (58:07):
Honestly, his stepdad that made him live with his grandfather.

Speaker 1 (58:10):
Yeah, that's just part of the course.

Speaker 2 (58:12):
And then he eventually moves back, but then his mother does,
honestly to spend any time in there.

Speaker 1 (58:17):
A low key shitty person too. We didn't really go
into it enough. We touched on it. The one who
was like, yeah, the Mayflower can totally sail across an
open ocean. I mean it never has, but it totally could.

Speaker 2 (58:28):
So the owner of the Mayflower. Yeah, yeah, so yeah,
it's really only gone short distances with wine.

Speaker 1 (58:36):
But and it just really can't be said enough to
I guarantee you it was never further than like fifty
miles off the coast of anywhere.

Speaker 2 (58:43):
The hero of the story, the guy that fixed the mast. Yeah, ingenuity, Yeah,
what a guy.

Speaker 1 (58:51):
No, it's incredible, but yeah, the owner of the Mayflower
actually is my hitler because he was like, yeah, I
could probably do it. What not.

Speaker 2 (59:02):
That's today's episode, boys and gals. Thank you for listening.
Happy Thanksgiving.

Speaker 1 (59:08):
We love you guys.

Speaker 2 (59:09):
Tell the story at your Thanksgiving dinner if.

Speaker 1 (59:11):
You like, you can use it. This is the great
best part of the story because there's nuance to it.
You can use it against your conservative uncle or your
insufferable liberal cousin, doesn't matter. There are parts you can
pick and choose from either.

Speaker 2 (59:23):
Yeah, just pick your spots, yeah, and them with some
jabs left and around.

Speaker 1 (59:27):
The point isn't to be historically accurate. It's just to
shut up the asshole at the table. So whoever's the
dick is?

Speaker 2 (59:35):
It's the rock the boat like the mayflower across in
the Atlanta.

Speaker 1 (59:38):
Yeah, whoever the dick hole is at your Thanksgiving table,
your purple haired cousin or your fucking uncle who won't
take off his boga hat at the dinner table. Whichever
one you need to shut down, shut them down with
the parts of this story you liked the best.

Speaker 2 (59:53):
Make sure we check this down on pature on pittre
on dot com. Slash Softcore History. Two additional episodes every
week on the five dollars tier that drop every Wednesday
and Friday. We also have a tire tier that we
have a sports show and other podcast to come out
on that as well.

Speaker 1 (01:00:07):
Oh, I can't wait for this week's sports show. Yeah,
I'm excited. This is gonna get a good one.

Speaker 2 (01:00:11):
We don't have to get into it. Yeah, especially if
people are listening to this three years from now.

Speaker 1 (01:00:16):
I can't wait to talk about the twenty twenty five.

Speaker 2 (01:00:20):
I can't wait to talk about teammate and team B.

Speaker 1 (01:00:22):
Yeah, for which no one will remember. No, no one does.

Speaker 2 (01:00:26):
Yeah, we have goldfish memories.

Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
Yeah, maybe that makes us happier and sader. But I'm
happy again. Well you're happy. Yeah, I'm happy. I'm happy.
I guess yeah, I'm happy.

Speaker 2 (01:00:41):
I'd be really happy if you check out our Patreon
and actually you sign up for our patreon Patreon.

Speaker 1 (01:00:45):
This is my only.

Speaker 2 (01:00:46):
Job at the moment, so all money is appreciated. Need
pay rent, We'd love you for it forever.

Speaker 1 (01:00:56):
I have children to feed.

Speaker 2 (01:00:58):
Check us out on Instagram, softcore history, she goes. Check
our beautiful faces out on YouTube. You know, subscribe watch
on YouTube even if you're already listening to the audio episode.
Leave the YouTube on a playlist for your dog, your cat,
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Speaker 1 (01:01:17):
Or if you just have a home computer, let it roll.
Let it roll while you go to work.

Speaker 2 (01:01:23):
Let us collect those pennies of ad revenue.

Speaker 1 (01:01:25):
Oh it'll play all day, but anyway.

Speaker 2 (01:01:30):
We love you guys. Happy holidays for our Fox. I'm
Damna Jester. You just got saw served.