April 28, 2025 • 22 mins
Detectives Andrew Houghton and Matt Vartanian from the Elgin Police Department Cold Case Unit wrap up Karen’s cold case investigation by detailing the final steps in Karen’s case and they discuss what they believed most likely happened to Karen on that fateful night in April of 1983.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This podcast is based on information sourced primarily from police
and media reports, but certain names and other identifying details
may have been changed or altered for privacy and security reasons.
While the events in cases discussed are based on real investigations,
some aspects may be simplified for time and for narrative purposes.
(00:25):
Voice actors have been used to read from statements or documents.
All information presented is intended solely to inform and raise awareness.
Hosts may discuss theories regarding the cases examined in this podcast,
but such discussions are not intended to and should not
(00:46):
be considered by the listener to be legal conclusions. All
persons discussed are considered innocent until proven guilty in a
court of law. Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
This is Chief Anna Lalley. Welcome to Somebody Knows Something,
a podcast from the Elgin Police Department's Cold Case Unit.
In this podcast, we will shed new light on cold
cases in the city of Elgin by sharing untold details
and by encouraging anyone with information to come forward. You
will come along with real cold case detectives as they
(01:24):
investigate active cold cases in real time and seek justice
for the victims. And closure for their families. We believe
that the Elgin Police Department and our community can work
together to bring closure to cold cases because we know
that in these cases, somebody knows something.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Hello and welcome to Somebody Knows something. The Elgin Police
Department Cold Case Podcast. My name is Detective Andrew.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
Howton, and I'm Detective Matt Vartanian.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Over our last two episodes, we called our Search of
the Fox River, where we located and recovered Karen's nineteen
eighty Toyota Celica and even more importantly, Karen. We also
spoke with Chaos Divers about the exceptional work that they
did on Karen's case and that they are continuing to
do for families all around the country.
Speaker 4 (02:15):
I know for both of us, the past few weeks
have been emotional, and we appreciate the support that the
community has given to the Elgin Police Department and us,
but even more so to Karen and her family. Finding
Karen and her car was one big step in this investigation,
but it was not the end of this case. That's right.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Finding Karen's car was a huge piece of this puzzle,
and then recovering her remains was another giant leap forward
for us, But over the past few weeks we've continued
to meet with forensic experts, Toyota experts, and even some
new witnesses.
Speaker 5 (02:47):
We answered the.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Question where is Karen on March twenty fourth, but now
we want to answer the question what happened to Karen Sheepers.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
Like you said, Andrew, we now have two giant pieces
of evidence that we did not have when we started
this investigation. We have Karen's nineteen eighty Toyota Salica and
we have Karen. Both required us to bring in experts
to try to help figure out what happened to Karen
on April sixteenth of nineteen eighty three. But before we
(03:15):
get into that, let's talk about a new tip that
came in just after we found Karen and her car.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
A former employee from First Card named Jane, who no
longer lives in Illinois, reached out to us when she
learned about our investigation. Jane worked in a different department
than Karen, but she was actually at PM Bentley's on
April fifteenth and never spoke to the police. Because she
was in a different department than Karen, her name didn't
appear on any of our lists of employees for the party.
(03:41):
Jane unknowingly had a really big piece of the puzzle
that helped us put the night's events into perspective even more.
Speaker 5 (03:48):
Well.
Speaker 6 (03:48):
I didn't p se work with Karen and her department,
but we all considered her card as family. So she
was very, very and dear to me. She was always so.
Speaker 5 (04:02):
Friendly and kind, and I would interact.
Speaker 6 (04:06):
With her whenever I would see her, and she was
just a wonderful person.
Speaker 5 (04:12):
She had gotten the promotion and I was invited to
attend because it was like five minutes away from where
I lived with my first husband, and so we went and.
Speaker 6 (04:25):
We went in. We had a good time.
Speaker 5 (04:28):
Karen did and did do the whole of the contest.
Speaker 6 (04:36):
And I had noticed her out in the very beginning
of the bar, the vestibule that you go into before
you actually go into the bar.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
She was she was at the payphone.
Speaker 6 (04:49):
And she's crying.
Speaker 5 (04:51):
And when she had got done, I asked her here
and are you.
Speaker 6 (04:56):
Okay, and she said no, she was sad because her boyfriend,
whindn't come out and party with her.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
You had mentioned before that you had seen her in
the parking lot later in the night. Can you describe
that for us.
Speaker 6 (05:11):
Well, she was in the parking lot to get into
her car, and I tell that she was still upset,
and I just said to her, Karen, please be careful
going home.
Speaker 5 (05:25):
You know, make sure that you're safe, and you know
i'd see her up the next day of business. Yeah,
And she smiled and waved at me and she said
thank you.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Jane went on to describe Karen's car to us, and
she was certain that Karen was alone when she got
into the car, and then she saw Karen turn south
on Illinois Route twenty five.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
We now have an independent witness who says she actually
saw Karen leave in her car alone that night. I
have to say that this type of witness information is
what we have been looking for during our investigation this
entire time. When she heard that Karen's car was found
during our search, she simply chose to contact us because
she wanted to be sure we had her information. Like
(06:07):
we have always said, no tip is too small, and
this one was certainly a big one. We now feel
even more confident that Karen did leave the bar on
her own based on this new tip, and we spoke
with some other people associated with the tipster who confirmed
her information, so we have confidence knowing that this tip
is valid. Figuring out that Karen did leave on her
(06:28):
own really paints a much richer picture for this case
for us and what happened that night.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Yeah, it shows us that she left in her car
and was alone, which is huge, But that isn't all
we learned over the past few weeks. Like we said,
the two biggest new pieces of evidence that we have
in this case are Karen's remains in Karen's car. Matt,
I think we should start by talking about what Karen
was able to tell us about what happened to her forty.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
Two years ago.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
When you work any death investigation, it is important to
remember that the decedent in this case, Karen, is a person.
We always strive to be as respectful as possible, but
we also want to assess everything so that we can
give answers to the family. That's why the Coroner's office
conducts autopsies and exams after many death investigations that we work.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
Thankfully, through the exceptional work of Chaos divers, we were
able to recover extensive skeletal remains, including dental remains. Because
we recovered dental remains This allowed the forensic odontologists to
identify Karen in days rather than in weeks.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
I just have to say that the Kane County Corner's
Office treated Karen with the utmost care, respect, and dignity,
just like they do on every case. They also helped
us bring on multiple experts to review the case and
examine Karen's remains so that we could try to provide
as many answers as we could. We really do appreciate
the care they showed, the expertise with which they do
their work, and the number of resources they brought in
(07:52):
for us. It is through their thorough work that we
were able to tell several things about what happened to Karen.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
After the Core Corner's Office was able to conclusively say
that the remains we recovered were Karen and only Karen's,
we were able to learn a few more things. For one,
Karen was able to tell us where she was located
inside her car. We now know that all of Karen's
remains were located in the front seat area of the
passenger compartment of her vehicle, consistent with her driving the
(08:21):
vehicle prior to the car entering the Fox River. Based
on this Karen was able to tell us that she
was alone in her car and in the front seat
area when both she and the car entered the river.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Also, just because we were able to identify Karen didn't
mean the Kane County Corner's Office was done. The Kine
County Medical Examiner, doctor Marta Helenowski, reviewed Karen's remains and
she performed an autopsy. Then the Corner's office went the
extra mile. They brought in a forensic anthropologist from Northwestern University,
doctor Aaron Waxenbaum. She assessed and documented every single bone
(08:57):
that we were covered and confirmed that the human remains
belonged to only one person, Karen.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
Most importantly, all the experts agreed that there were no
significant structural injuries, brakes, gunshot wounds, trauma, or anything else
suspicious on any of Karen's remains. The other new piece
(09:27):
of evidence that we now have is Karen's car, that,
like Karen, can tell us information that is vital to
understanding what happened to Karen. First, the physical location of
the car is very important. We have had a number
of people asking if Karen could have driven off the
boat ramp at Slade Avenue, and we can say to that,
(09:47):
the answer is no, she did not. The car is
several hundred feet north of there, which is upstream, so
the car absolutely did not enter the Fox River at
the Slade Avenue boat ramp.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Also, in talking to Chaos divers, they told us that
Karen's car, especially in high water, could have been carried
upwards of a mile, maybe even further if all the
windows were up and the tires were inflated. We now
know that all four side windows and the windshield were
intact when Mike McFerran and the Elgin Police Department dove
and checked the vehicle prior to us removing it on
March twenty.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
Fifth, Andrew, we had actually talked extensively about the car
and the windows even before we did the search. We
expected that the windows would be up in Karen's car
because it was unseasonably cold and because Karen, well at
least to our knowledge, was not a smoker, so she
wouldn't have had a window down to smoke or anything
like that. Now, because it was cold, it would also
(10:42):
make sense that her windows would have been up as
she drove from PM Bentleys to Elgin, So we know
going in to the search that it was likely that
Karen's car could have traveled a significant distance downstream if
it did go into the Fox River.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Yeah, and we actually measured the distance between Duncan Avenue
just north of By ninety to the site where Karen's
car was actually located from the furthest point north on Duncan,
where the river is extremely close to the roadway, to
the location near Slade Avenue is about a mile and
a half. So we can safely say it's entirely possible
that Karen could have entered the river in that general
(11:17):
area and the car could have been carried a little
over a mile before finally settling where we found it. Additionally,
the location where her car was resting was kind of
along the edge of a deep spot that then got
more shallow. It's possible that the car settling in this
deeper area just simply couldn't be pushed by the current
to get out of there. And we know the same
areas where we found a lot of other cars.
Speaker 4 (11:39):
Yes, Plus that area where we had found Karen's car
was the same general area where we found two additional
vehicles and other debris. That spot in the river seems
to be where a lot of larger debris was deposited
by the current things like pipe, larger tires, and other
types of debris.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
We also know that the area of Trout Park and
the area of North Spring Street it could potentially be
entry points to the river that we didn't really discuss
in our prior episodes. Trout Park is just south of
EYE ninety and could be a location where Karen could
have turned or lost control or maybe entered the river
around the I ninety corridor area. Similarly, North Spring Street,
just north of River Bluff Road, is close to Slade Avenue,
(12:19):
where Karen's car was found. That road is currently a
gated roadway, but in the nineteen eighties it was a
steep brick roadway which was open to the public. A
number of former police officers and other people from the
community have reached out to us and told us that
that road would be slick, it would be somewhere that
maybe people would drive if they were just kind of
going to clear their head, and it was in close
proximity to Karen's house, just a few blocks northwest of there.
(12:41):
If Kieren had decided to drive around a bit before
going home, maybe just to kind of clear her head.
People suggested that North Spring Street spot is a spot
that she could have gotten the river. Trout Park is
also another potential entry point. Like we said, needless to say,
there are several points where she could have entered the
river upstream from Slade Avenue, Matt. We will likely never
know the exist, but we do feel like the Duncan
(13:01):
Avenue area close to the river is the most likely
possible location, and there are others as well.
Speaker 4 (13:07):
In addition to the location of the car, we also
physically needed to assess the vehicle body and the mechanics
of Karen's Toyota Celica to determine what information we could
gather about that car prior to it entering the river. Again,
we needed to bring in experts, so we ended up
bringing in two different groups. The first was the Elgin
Police Department's Traffic crash reconstruction team and the second was
(13:31):
a Toyota Master technician from Elgin Toyota who had over
thirty years of experience. We want to thank Elgin Toyota
for helping us assess Karen's car and for providing a
detailed report on the vehicle that was immensely helpful in
giving us some new very valuable information.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
First, let's start with the Elgin Police Department crash team.
The team did not observe any major dents or impacts
on the body of the car that would suggest it
was struck by another vehicle, run off the roadway, or
the Karen struck a deer or tree or other large object.
In fact, they noted that while the tires were deflated,
the four rims were basically pristine, with no obvious dents
or other damage on any of the rims. Plus, we
(14:10):
know all the windows were intact and there was no
penetration to the passenger compartment that would suggest any type
of impact. At this point, we feel like we can
rule out any major crash or impact involving Karen's vehicle.
We should also note that the rear hatch window being
broken could be explained by some tree debris and other
logs that the diver, Mike McFerrin had to move off
of the vehicle. There were no impacts on the rear bumper,
the lights, or anywhere else that would show some kind
(14:32):
of impact from behind to break that window. Overall, the
car was actually in remarkably good physical condition for being
submerged for almost forty two years.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
The Elgin Police Department Traffic Crash Reconstruction teams report and
review was very helpful, but we both feel that our
Toyota Master Technicians report, which documented the car similarly to
the Elgin Police Departments Traffic Crash Reconstruction Team regarding the
lack of body damage, provided the most insight into what
happened to Karen. He also noted upon inspection that the
(15:04):
two front tires had been deflated. When they went to
put air in those tires, they actually held air after
all this time. That helps us to know that it
is that much more likely that Karen's car could have
floated a longer distance, and it shows that those tires
were not damaged even after forty two years. These details
were important to understanding how Karen's car could have floated
(15:24):
further into the river and to also confirm that there
were no major impacts involving her car. But it was
his mechanical report that really gives us the best picture
of what happened on April sixteenth of nineteen eighty three.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
The technician documented a few other very important mechanical facts
about the car. The first was that the key was
in the ignition and in the on position. This indicates
that Karen's car was running and on when it entered
the Fox River.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
The second was that Karen's vehicle, which had a five
speed manual transmission, was in fourth gear and seized in
that position, likely due to the extensive time in the water.
This indicates that Karen was driving her vehicle at a
speed consistent with fourth gear prior to the car entering
the Fox River. The technician also noted that the front
(16:14):
brake lines were fully intact and that while the brake
line hose was broken, he did not find that to
be suspicious. In fact, the rear brake hose was separated
from the metal block due to extensive corrosion on the
crimp fitting, and the front brake line showed consistent corrosion
in the exact same locations. Basically, the brake line did
(16:35):
not appear to have been tampered with or cut or
anything in that manner.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
The final mechanical detail about Karen's car is something that
we both feel is very very significant. The emergency brake
in the center of the vehicle was pulled completely up
and rusted in that position, indicating that the occupant pulled
the emergency brake prior to the vehicle entering the river.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
Because of several factors, including the amount of time that
has passed since her death and the fact that we
don't have one hundred percent of Karen's remains, the Kane
County Coroner's Office can't one hundred percent say what happened
to cause Karen's death, So from a medical and legal standpoint,
her death has been classified as undetermined. That being said,
(17:21):
both Andrew and I have some opinions that we would
like to provide as we wrap up this criminal investigation.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
From the beginning of this case, our goal has always
been to find Karen and provide answers to our friends
and our family. On March twenty fourth of twenty twenty five,
we found her car in the Fox River, and on
March twenty fifth, we recovered both Karen and her vehicle
from the river. Now, after forty two years, we believe
that we can answer what we think most likely happened
(17:48):
to Karen Sheeper's in the early morning hours of April sixteenth,
nineteen eighty three.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
First, we now know from witness statements that Karen left
PM Bentley's on April sixth, sixteenth of nineteen eighty three
in the early morning hours alone in her canary yellow
nineteen eighty Toyota Celica with red accent stripes. The windows
were up, and we know it would have been common
for her to take Duncan Avedoo to drive back to Elgin.
(18:16):
We also know it was dark, cold, and slick, and
we now know that the Fox River and other bodies
of water along her route were severely flooded. It is
entirely possible that Karen's Toyota could have traveled in the
river from the area of Duncan Avenue to its final
resting place.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Based on the expert assessments of Karen's Toyota, we know
that Karen was traveling at a speed consistent with her
vehicle being in fourth gear. On the low end, we've
been able to estimate that in the load amid twenty
mile an hour range, and on the high end it
could be significantly faster than that. We also now know
that at some point the emergency brake was pulled in
the car for some reason. Matt and I both also
(18:55):
want to note that just because Karen was at a
bar and driving home does not mean that she was
in paired from a number of the people we've spoken with,
Karen was not a heavy drinker, and she was very
responsible and literally no one who was at the bar
described her as being drunk or stumbling or acting drunk
even into the late evening hours. While it is possible
that she was impaired or slightly impaired, it's just as
(19:17):
likely that she was tired, given it was such a
late hour and she was up early on April fifteenth
to go to work. It's also possible that, regardless of
being tired or any type of impairment, the weather conditions
and road conditions were simply a major contributing factor and
a crash that could have happened regardless. Additionally, if she
did drive into standing water, Karen's car sits very low
to the ground, and it wouldn't take much water to
(19:39):
lift her car up from the pavement and cause her
to begin drifting out into the river.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
The last thing that we also know is that, based
on the assessments of several forensic experts, we believe that
Karen Sheeper suffered no significant structural injuries to any of
her skultal remains. She wasn't shot or beaten or anything
that would cause any alarm based on the condition of
her remains that we had recovered, and that are multiple
(20:04):
experts assessed for this case, and she was found in
the front seat of her vehicle at this point.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
Based on our extensive investigation, we also know Karen was
alone in her car when it entered the Fox River
at some location north of Slade Avenue. There was essentially
no major body damage to the car or to the
mechanics of the car. The lights were intact, the windows
were intact, even the tires were intact. That, along with
the information that the car was in fourth gear and
(20:33):
the emergency brake was pulled, we both strongly feel that
options like suicide or someone pushing Karen's car into the
river are eliminated from this case. All in all, based
on the totality of the circumstances, both Matt and I
believe that Karen's death was simply a very tragic accident.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
Next episode will be the final episode for this season,
while we may have a bonus episode or additional information
to release over the summer. We planned to wrap up
season one by sitting back down with Karen's close friends
and family to hear their reflections on the past few
months and to hear what bringing Karen home has meant
to them. I am sure it will be an emotional episode,
(21:15):
but Karen's friends and family deserve to be heard one
more time. Please join us next time as we remember
Karen Lee Sheeper's here on. Somebody knows something.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
If you or anyone you know has information about this
case or any other cold case in Elgin, please contact
the Elgin Police Department Cold Case Email at cold Case
tips at ELGINIL dot gov or the cold Case tip
line at eight four seven two eight nine cold. You
can also review cold case information on the Elgin Police
(22:00):
Department's Transparency Hub by going to ELGINIL dot gov and
navigating to the Elgin Police Department's Transparency Hub, where every
cold case, homicide, and missing person's case is listed with
photographs and information about each case.
This podcast is based on information sourced primarily from police
and media reports, but certain names and other identifying details
may have been changed or altered for privacy and security reasons.
While the events in cases discussed are based on real investigations,
some aspects may be simplified for time and for narrative purposes.
(00:25):
Voice actors have been used to read from statements or documents.
All information presented is intended solely to inform and raise awareness.
Hosts may discuss theories regarding the cases examined in this podcast,
but such discussions are not intended to and should not
(00:46):
be considered by the listener to be legal conclusions. All
persons discussed are considered innocent until proven guilty in a
court of law. Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
This is Chief Anna Lalley. Welcome to Somebody Knows Something,
a podcast from the Elgin Police Department's Cold Case Unit.
In this podcast, we will shed new light on cold
cases in the city of Elgin by sharing untold details
and by encouraging anyone with information to come forward. You
will come along with real cold case detectives as they
(01:24):
investigate active cold cases in real time and seek justice
for the victims. And closure for their families. We believe
that the Elgin Police Department and our community can work
together to bring closure to cold cases because we know
that in these cases, somebody knows something.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Hello and welcome to Somebody Knows something. The Elgin Police
Department Cold Case Podcast. My name is Detective Andrew.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
Howton, and I'm Detective Matt Vartanian.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Over our last two episodes, we called our Search of
the Fox River, where we located and recovered Karen's nineteen
eighty Toyota Celica and even more importantly, Karen. We also
spoke with Chaos Divers about the exceptional work that they
did on Karen's case and that they are continuing to
do for families all around the country.
Speaker 4 (02:15):
I know for both of us, the past few weeks
have been emotional, and we appreciate the support that the
community has given to the Elgin Police Department and us,
but even more so to Karen and her family. Finding
Karen and her car was one big step in this investigation,
but it was not the end of this case. That's right.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Finding Karen's car was a huge piece of this puzzle,
and then recovering her remains was another giant leap forward
for us, But over the past few weeks we've continued
to meet with forensic experts, Toyota experts, and even some
new witnesses.
Speaker 5 (02:47):
We answered the.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Question where is Karen on March twenty fourth, but now
we want to answer the question what happened to Karen Sheepers.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
Like you said, Andrew, we now have two giant pieces
of evidence that we did not have when we started
this investigation. We have Karen's nineteen eighty Toyota Salica and
we have Karen. Both required us to bring in experts
to try to help figure out what happened to Karen
on April sixteenth of nineteen eighty three. But before we
(03:15):
get into that, let's talk about a new tip that
came in just after we found Karen and her car.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
A former employee from First Card named Jane, who no
longer lives in Illinois, reached out to us when she
learned about our investigation. Jane worked in a different department
than Karen, but she was actually at PM Bentley's on
April fifteenth and never spoke to the police. Because she
was in a different department than Karen, her name didn't
appear on any of our lists of employees for the party.
(03:41):
Jane unknowingly had a really big piece of the puzzle
that helped us put the night's events into perspective even more.
Speaker 5 (03:48):
Well.
Speaker 6 (03:48):
I didn't p se work with Karen and her department,
but we all considered her card as family. So she
was very, very and dear to me. She was always so.
Speaker 5 (04:02):
Friendly and kind, and I would interact.
Speaker 6 (04:06):
With her whenever I would see her, and she was
just a wonderful person.
Speaker 5 (04:12):
She had gotten the promotion and I was invited to
attend because it was like five minutes away from where
I lived with my first husband, and so we went and.
Speaker 6 (04:25):
We went in. We had a good time.
Speaker 5 (04:28):
Karen did and did do the whole of the contest.
Speaker 6 (04:36):
And I had noticed her out in the very beginning
of the bar, the vestibule that you go into before
you actually go into the bar.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
She was she was at the payphone.
Speaker 6 (04:49):
And she's crying.
Speaker 5 (04:51):
And when she had got done, I asked her here
and are you.
Speaker 6 (04:56):
Okay, and she said no, she was sad because her boyfriend,
whindn't come out and party with her.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
You had mentioned before that you had seen her in
the parking lot later in the night. Can you describe
that for us.
Speaker 6 (05:11):
Well, she was in the parking lot to get into
her car, and I tell that she was still upset,
and I just said to her, Karen, please be careful
going home.
Speaker 5 (05:25):
You know, make sure that you're safe, and you know
i'd see her up the next day of business. Yeah,
And she smiled and waved at me and she said
thank you.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Jane went on to describe Karen's car to us, and
she was certain that Karen was alone when she got
into the car, and then she saw Karen turn south
on Illinois Route twenty five.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
We now have an independent witness who says she actually
saw Karen leave in her car alone that night. I
have to say that this type of witness information is
what we have been looking for during our investigation this
entire time. When she heard that Karen's car was found
during our search, she simply chose to contact us because
she wanted to be sure we had her information. Like
(06:07):
we have always said, no tip is too small, and
this one was certainly a big one. We now feel
even more confident that Karen did leave the bar on
her own based on this new tip, and we spoke
with some other people associated with the tipster who confirmed
her information, so we have confidence knowing that this tip
is valid. Figuring out that Karen did leave on her
(06:28):
own really paints a much richer picture for this case
for us and what happened that night.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Yeah, it shows us that she left in her car
and was alone, which is huge, But that isn't all
we learned over the past few weeks. Like we said,
the two biggest new pieces of evidence that we have
in this case are Karen's remains in Karen's car. Matt,
I think we should start by talking about what Karen
was able to tell us about what happened to her forty.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
Two years ago.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
When you work any death investigation, it is important to
remember that the decedent in this case, Karen, is a person.
We always strive to be as respectful as possible, but
we also want to assess everything so that we can
give answers to the family. That's why the Coroner's office
conducts autopsies and exams after many death investigations that we work.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
Thankfully, through the exceptional work of Chaos divers, we were
able to recover extensive skeletal remains, including dental remains. Because
we recovered dental remains This allowed the forensic odontologists to
identify Karen in days rather than in weeks.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
I just have to say that the Kane County Corner's
Office treated Karen with the utmost care, respect, and dignity,
just like they do on every case. They also helped
us bring on multiple experts to review the case and
examine Karen's remains so that we could try to provide
as many answers as we could. We really do appreciate
the care they showed, the expertise with which they do
their work, and the number of resources they brought in
(07:52):
for us. It is through their thorough work that we
were able to tell several things about what happened to Karen.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
After the Core Corner's Office was able to conclusively say
that the remains we recovered were Karen and only Karen's,
we were able to learn a few more things. For one,
Karen was able to tell us where she was located
inside her car. We now know that all of Karen's
remains were located in the front seat area of the
passenger compartment of her vehicle, consistent with her driving the
(08:21):
vehicle prior to the car entering the Fox River. Based
on this Karen was able to tell us that she
was alone in her car and in the front seat
area when both she and the car entered the river.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Also, just because we were able to identify Karen didn't
mean the Kane County Corner's Office was done. The Kine
County Medical Examiner, doctor Marta Helenowski, reviewed Karen's remains and
she performed an autopsy. Then the Corner's office went the
extra mile. They brought in a forensic anthropologist from Northwestern University,
doctor Aaron Waxenbaum. She assessed and documented every single bone
(08:57):
that we were covered and confirmed that the human remains
belonged to only one person, Karen.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
Most importantly, all the experts agreed that there were no
significant structural injuries, brakes, gunshot wounds, trauma, or anything else
suspicious on any of Karen's remains. The other new piece
(09:27):
of evidence that we now have is Karen's car, that,
like Karen, can tell us information that is vital to
understanding what happened to Karen. First, the physical location of
the car is very important. We have had a number
of people asking if Karen could have driven off the
boat ramp at Slade Avenue, and we can say to that,
(09:47):
the answer is no, she did not. The car is
several hundred feet north of there, which is upstream, so
the car absolutely did not enter the Fox River at
the Slade Avenue boat ramp.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Also, in talking to Chaos divers, they told us that
Karen's car, especially in high water, could have been carried
upwards of a mile, maybe even further if all the
windows were up and the tires were inflated. We now
know that all four side windows and the windshield were
intact when Mike McFerran and the Elgin Police Department dove
and checked the vehicle prior to us removing it on
March twenty.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
Fifth, Andrew, we had actually talked extensively about the car
and the windows even before we did the search. We
expected that the windows would be up in Karen's car
because it was unseasonably cold and because Karen, well at
least to our knowledge, was not a smoker, so she
wouldn't have had a window down to smoke or anything
like that. Now, because it was cold, it would also
(10:42):
make sense that her windows would have been up as
she drove from PM Bentleys to Elgin, So we know
going in to the search that it was likely that
Karen's car could have traveled a significant distance downstream if
it did go into the Fox River.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Yeah, and we actually measured the distance between Duncan Avenue
just north of By ninety to the site where Karen's
car was actually located from the furthest point north on Duncan,
where the river is extremely close to the roadway, to
the location near Slade Avenue is about a mile and
a half. So we can safely say it's entirely possible
that Karen could have entered the river in that general
(11:17):
area and the car could have been carried a little
over a mile before finally settling where we found it. Additionally,
the location where her car was resting was kind of
along the edge of a deep spot that then got
more shallow. It's possible that the car settling in this
deeper area just simply couldn't be pushed by the current
to get out of there. And we know the same
areas where we found a lot of other cars.
Speaker 4 (11:39):
Yes, Plus that area where we had found Karen's car
was the same general area where we found two additional
vehicles and other debris. That spot in the river seems
to be where a lot of larger debris was deposited
by the current things like pipe, larger tires, and other
types of debris.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
We also know that the area of Trout Park and
the area of North Spring Street it could potentially be
entry points to the river that we didn't really discuss
in our prior episodes. Trout Park is just south of
EYE ninety and could be a location where Karen could
have turned or lost control or maybe entered the river
around the I ninety corridor area. Similarly, North Spring Street,
just north of River Bluff Road, is close to Slade Avenue,
(12:19):
where Karen's car was found. That road is currently a
gated roadway, but in the nineteen eighties it was a
steep brick roadway which was open to the public. A
number of former police officers and other people from the
community have reached out to us and told us that
that road would be slick, it would be somewhere that
maybe people would drive if they were just kind of
going to clear their head, and it was in close
proximity to Karen's house, just a few blocks northwest of there.
(12:41):
If Kieren had decided to drive around a bit before
going home, maybe just to kind of clear her head.
People suggested that North Spring Street spot is a spot
that she could have gotten the river. Trout Park is
also another potential entry point. Like we said, needless to say,
there are several points where she could have entered the
river upstream from Slade Avenue, Matt. We will likely never
know the exist, but we do feel like the Duncan
(13:01):
Avenue area close to the river is the most likely
possible location, and there are others as well.
Speaker 4 (13:07):
In addition to the location of the car, we also
physically needed to assess the vehicle body and the mechanics
of Karen's Toyota Celica to determine what information we could
gather about that car prior to it entering the river. Again,
we needed to bring in experts, so we ended up
bringing in two different groups. The first was the Elgin
Police Department's Traffic crash reconstruction team and the second was
(13:31):
a Toyota Master technician from Elgin Toyota who had over
thirty years of experience. We want to thank Elgin Toyota
for helping us assess Karen's car and for providing a
detailed report on the vehicle that was immensely helpful in
giving us some new very valuable information.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
First, let's start with the Elgin Police Department crash team.
The team did not observe any major dents or impacts
on the body of the car that would suggest it
was struck by another vehicle, run off the roadway, or
the Karen struck a deer or tree or other large object.
In fact, they noted that while the tires were deflated,
the four rims were basically pristine, with no obvious dents
or other damage on any of the rims. Plus, we
(14:10):
know all the windows were intact and there was no
penetration to the passenger compartment that would suggest any type
of impact. At this point, we feel like we can
rule out any major crash or impact involving Karen's vehicle.
We should also note that the rear hatch window being
broken could be explained by some tree debris and other
logs that the diver, Mike McFerrin had to move off
of the vehicle. There were no impacts on the rear bumper,
the lights, or anywhere else that would show some kind
(14:32):
of impact from behind to break that window. Overall, the
car was actually in remarkably good physical condition for being
submerged for almost forty two years.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
The Elgin Police Department Traffic Crash Reconstruction teams report and
review was very helpful, but we both feel that our
Toyota Master Technicians report, which documented the car similarly to
the Elgin Police Departments Traffic Crash Reconstruction Team regarding the
lack of body damage, provided the most insight into what
happened to Karen. He also noted upon inspection that the
(15:04):
two front tires had been deflated. When they went to
put air in those tires, they actually held air after
all this time. That helps us to know that it
is that much more likely that Karen's car could have
floated a longer distance, and it shows that those tires
were not damaged even after forty two years. These details
were important to understanding how Karen's car could have floated
(15:24):
further into the river and to also confirm that there
were no major impacts involving her car. But it was
his mechanical report that really gives us the best picture
of what happened on April sixteenth of nineteen eighty three.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
The technician documented a few other very important mechanical facts
about the car. The first was that the key was
in the ignition and in the on position. This indicates
that Karen's car was running and on when it entered
the Fox River.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
The second was that Karen's vehicle, which had a five
speed manual transmission, was in fourth gear and seized in
that position, likely due to the extensive time in the water.
This indicates that Karen was driving her vehicle at a
speed consistent with fourth gear prior to the car entering
the Fox River. The technician also noted that the front
(16:14):
brake lines were fully intact and that while the brake
line hose was broken, he did not find that to
be suspicious. In fact, the rear brake hose was separated
from the metal block due to extensive corrosion on the
crimp fitting, and the front brake line showed consistent corrosion
in the exact same locations. Basically, the brake line did
(16:35):
not appear to have been tampered with or cut or
anything in that manner.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
The final mechanical detail about Karen's car is something that
we both feel is very very significant. The emergency brake
in the center of the vehicle was pulled completely up
and rusted in that position, indicating that the occupant pulled
the emergency brake prior to the vehicle entering the river.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
Because of several factors, including the amount of time that
has passed since her death and the fact that we
don't have one hundred percent of Karen's remains, the Kane
County Coroner's Office can't one hundred percent say what happened
to cause Karen's death, So from a medical and legal standpoint,
her death has been classified as undetermined. That being said,
(17:21):
both Andrew and I have some opinions that we would
like to provide as we wrap up this criminal investigation.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
From the beginning of this case, our goal has always
been to find Karen and provide answers to our friends
and our family. On March twenty fourth of twenty twenty five,
we found her car in the Fox River, and on
March twenty fifth, we recovered both Karen and her vehicle
from the river. Now, after forty two years, we believe
that we can answer what we think most likely happened
(17:48):
to Karen Sheeper's in the early morning hours of April sixteenth,
nineteen eighty three.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
First, we now know from witness statements that Karen left
PM Bentley's on April sixth, sixteenth of nineteen eighty three
in the early morning hours alone in her canary yellow
nineteen eighty Toyota Celica with red accent stripes. The windows
were up, and we know it would have been common
for her to take Duncan Avedoo to drive back to Elgin.
(18:16):
We also know it was dark, cold, and slick, and
we now know that the Fox River and other bodies
of water along her route were severely flooded. It is
entirely possible that Karen's Toyota could have traveled in the
river from the area of Duncan Avenue to its final
resting place.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Based on the expert assessments of Karen's Toyota, we know
that Karen was traveling at a speed consistent with her
vehicle being in fourth gear. On the low end, we've
been able to estimate that in the load amid twenty
mile an hour range, and on the high end it
could be significantly faster than that. We also now know
that at some point the emergency brake was pulled in
the car for some reason. Matt and I both also
(18:55):
want to note that just because Karen was at a
bar and driving home does not mean that she was
in paired from a number of the people we've spoken with,
Karen was not a heavy drinker, and she was very
responsible and literally no one who was at the bar
described her as being drunk or stumbling or acting drunk
even into the late evening hours. While it is possible
that she was impaired or slightly impaired, it's just as
(19:17):
likely that she was tired, given it was such a
late hour and she was up early on April fifteenth
to go to work. It's also possible that, regardless of
being tired or any type of impairment, the weather conditions
and road conditions were simply a major contributing factor and
a crash that could have happened regardless. Additionally, if she
did drive into standing water, Karen's car sits very low
to the ground, and it wouldn't take much water to
(19:39):
lift her car up from the pavement and cause her
to begin drifting out into the river.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
The last thing that we also know is that, based
on the assessments of several forensic experts, we believe that
Karen Sheeper suffered no significant structural injuries to any of
her skultal remains. She wasn't shot or beaten or anything
that would cause any alarm based on the condition of
her remains that we had recovered, and that are multiple
(20:04):
experts assessed for this case, and she was found in
the front seat of her vehicle at this point.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
Based on our extensive investigation, we also know Karen was
alone in her car when it entered the Fox River
at some location north of Slade Avenue. There was essentially
no major body damage to the car or to the
mechanics of the car. The lights were intact, the windows
were intact, even the tires were intact. That, along with
the information that the car was in fourth gear and
(20:33):
the emergency brake was pulled, we both strongly feel that
options like suicide or someone pushing Karen's car into the
river are eliminated from this case. All in all, based
on the totality of the circumstances, both Matt and I
believe that Karen's death was simply a very tragic accident.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
Next episode will be the final episode for this season,
while we may have a bonus episode or additional information
to release over the summer. We planned to wrap up
season one by sitting back down with Karen's close friends
and family to hear their reflections on the past few
months and to hear what bringing Karen home has meant
to them. I am sure it will be an emotional episode,
(21:15):
but Karen's friends and family deserve to be heard one
more time. Please join us next time as we remember
Karen Lee Sheeper's here on. Somebody knows something.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
If you or anyone you know has information about this
case or any other cold case in Elgin, please contact
the Elgin Police Department Cold Case Email at cold Case
tips at ELGINIL dot gov or the cold Case tip
line at eight four seven two eight nine cold. You
can also review cold case information on the Elgin Police
(22:00):
Department's Transparency Hub by going to ELGINIL dot gov and
navigating to the Elgin Police Department's Transparency Hub, where every
cold case, homicide, and missing person's case is listed with
photographs and information about each case.
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