February 17, 2025 • 30 mins
Detectives Andrew Houghton & Matt Vartanian from the Elgin Police Department Cold Case Unit interview members of Karen's family, her close friends, & her co-workers to get a sense of who Karen was as a person and to evaluate Theory #1, that Karen made a desperate choice to either run away or harm herself.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This podcast is based on information sourced primarily from police
and media reports, but certain names and other identifying details
may have been changed or altered for privacy and security reasons.
While the events in cases discussed are based on real investigations,
some aspects may be simplified for time and for narrative purposes.
(00:25):
Voice actors have been used to read from statements or documents.
All information presented is intended solely to inform and raise awareness.
Hosts may discuss theories regarding the cases examined in this podcast,
but such discussions are not intended to and should not
(00:46):
be considered by the listener to be legal conclusions. All
persons discussed are considered innocent until proven guilty in a
court of law. Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
This is Chief Anna Lally. Welcome to Somebody Knows Something,
a podcast from the Elgin Police Department's Cold Case Unit.
In this podcast, we will shed new light on cold
cases in the city of Elgin by sharing untold details
and by encouraging anyone with information to come forward. You
will come along with real cold case detectives as they
(01:23):
investigate active cold cases in real time and seek justice
for the victims and closure for their families. We believe
that the Elgin Police Department and our community can work
together to bring closure to cold cases because we know
that in these cases, somebody knows something.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Welcome to somebody knows something.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
The Elgin Police Department Cold Case Podcast, I'm Detective Andrew
Houten and.
Speaker 5 (01:51):
I'm Detective Matt Vartanian. In our first two episodes, we
walked through the hours leading up to Karen Sheeper's disappearance
on April sixth of nineteen eighty three and provided our
six overarching theories about what could have happened to Karen.
We also spoke to multiple members of Karen's family to
get to know Karen. Now it's time to start our
investigation into our theories and discuss each one. In this episode,
(02:16):
we look at theory number one. Karen made a desperate choice.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Yeah, so I know, we talked Matt.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
Theory one kind of came from the original idea that
some people in law enforcement had back in eighty three,
and that was that Karen she just took off right,
you know, she went to blow off some scheme. Maybe
she got an argument with her boyfriend and picked up
roots and left voluntarily. Obviously she never came back, so
we have to look at the idea at least that
she just took off on her own. We also decided
to expand that theory and include the option that Karen
(02:45):
made a different choice, which would be somehow harming herself,
and kind of made that into one theory. So it's
Karen made a voluntary choice to either leave or to
harm herself in some way, you.
Speaker 5 (02:55):
Know, Andrew, I think we should start by saying that
it is really important. Our goal is to give every
theory equal attention and not immediately discount any option, even
if it sounds unlikely.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
You know.
Speaker 5 (03:06):
The way police typically get themselves into trouble during an
investigation is they focus on one theory or suspect and
then they fit evidence around that person or that theory.
Speaker 6 (03:15):
You know.
Speaker 5 (03:16):
So we were going to do the reverse and consider
every option to let the evidence and the facts guide
us to the most likely scenario or scenarios.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
I mean, I think one thing you want to do
in a cold case, and it's kind of tedious, it's
not really exciting, is go back through the case, identify
every person who was involved in some way, no matter
how large or how small. And that includes people like witnesses,
people of interest, police officers, investigators, and other people associated
with those people. At this point, I mean, we're talking
about like well over one hundred people in this case, right.
Speaker 5 (03:48):
Yeah, So once we reviewed the case file, we started
identifying those people we wanted to talk to, and like
you said, we're talking about a lot of people. I mean,
luckily we have tracked down a number of friends and
family and other people involved, but we are still looking
to speak with a bunch of other people for this case.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
Yeah, I mean we've located a lot of people, including
some new people that were never interviewed back then. And
that's one really big reason why we're doing this podcast,
right is we want to track people down, and we
want to ask our listeners to help us to do
that throughout the season. You know, if you have information,
you can notify us anonymously. But we're just trying to
locate people that maybe people we did talk to back
then that we want to talk to again, or people
(04:26):
that were never spoken.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
To back then.
Speaker 5 (04:29):
Yeah, and you know, witnesses can provide us names and
contact information or remain anonymous that they want to. I mean,
we really, we just we really need your help, you know,
the public's help to continue investigating the leads that we
are generating in this investigation. Who you are is less
important to us than what you know. So to get
(04:49):
an idea about the likelihood that Karen would just take
off her harmer self, we felt like our best course
of action here was to talk to a number of
her friends, family members, and coworkers in this episode. So
we're going to share their reflections and thoughts with our
listeners as re review three number one. Let's start with
Karen's brother Dale.
Speaker 7 (05:08):
I mean, she was tough. She grew up with, you know,
five brothers. So you're not going to give up. You're
not gonna, you know, do something to hurt yourself or
kill yourself or whatever. You're not You're not going.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
To do that.
Speaker 7 (05:19):
You're tough and you're gonna You're going to show somebody
else that you know, I can I can survive this.
You're not going to ruin my life or take over
my life or anything like that.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
Okay, So besides Dale, you know, we got other family
members that we were able to talk to. So let's
let's listen to Gary, Karen's big brother, Yeah, and Susan
her little sister and their kind of thoughts. Do you
think it's likely that she would just up and take
off without telling anybody you.
Speaker 8 (05:48):
And even if she did, I still think she would
have taken her credit cards and check book with her. Sure,
you know, because there was like, what almost ten thousand dollars,
it was like eight thousand dollars and some you know,
if you're gonna if you're gonna go off and start
a new life, you're probably gonna want your nest egg.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Yeah, I know. Our bank account was never touched after
this time frame.
Speaker 9 (06:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 10 (06:14):
She was a very responsible person. I mean she had
a life insurance, she had savings, you know, she had credit,
you know, she had she bought a piano, I mean
she had everything was bad. Yeah, she was a very
responsible person for as young as she was. I mean yeah,
(06:38):
to the extent that if she was gonna she was
just going to disappear or run away or whatever.
Speaker 11 (06:46):
You just wouldn't do it in this in this fashion.
Speaker 10 (06:50):
And I don't think that all these years would go
by when you didn't at some point reach back out
to your mom and say.
Speaker 11 (06:57):
You know, I had to get away, you know whatever.
Speaker 8 (07:02):
Yeah, moved to Canada, ahead, you know whatever.
Speaker 10 (07:05):
She wasn't a free spirited hippie type person that you
could see going off to some commune.
Speaker 11 (07:11):
Or whatever and not saying anything to anybody. She's way
too responsible for that.
Speaker 5 (07:18):
The family is right that Karen had a substantial amount
of money for nineteen eighty three in her bank account.
She had just gotten paid on Friday, April fifteenth, and
had received her tax return of over one thousand dollars.
None of her money had ever been touched. It seems
unlikely that she would up and leave without taking that
kind of money with.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Her, right, Yeah, I think so. I mean yeah, I.
Speaker 5 (07:39):
Mean, after all, it would be really helpful to have
several thousand dollars to start fresh somewhere else.
Speaker 4 (07:44):
Yeah, it seems pretty unlikely you'd leave that kind of
money behind, you know, and just take your car, no
their belongings.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
You know.
Speaker 4 (07:51):
That has never made sense to me. But we can't,
like we said, we can't discount that option just because
we off the front end of it think well, this
doesn't make sense.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
We have to still kind of look at it, right, But.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
We know people went to her apartment, Her clothes were there,
her personal effects were there. There was a lot of
stuff left behind that you would think she would take
with her if she was just going to take off.
Speaker 5 (08:10):
Yeah, and she had extended family all over the place
in Illinois and Iowa and other places. I mean Gary
told us that she would have gone to someone if
she needed to run away for some reason. I mean,
she had so many siblings, you know, cousins and other
family within a few hours of Elgin and other states
just like Texas and Utah.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
Yeah, Karen had some big reasons to stay in Illinois too.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
You know.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
One of her close friends from high school that we
spoke to was Heidi, and HEII doesn't think that Karen
would just take off either. She has a pretty compelling
reason for that. Yes, okay, yes, do you remember there's
something kind of anecdotally a police report.
Speaker 11 (08:51):
About her maybe going dress shopping or something for your wedding.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Did you guys do that together or as something she
was done on her ELB.
Speaker 12 (08:57):
She went with my mom and my sister, okay, because
I was in Texas and I just told them to
pick out whatever dresses they liked in the color that
I chose.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
You know, do you remember when they would come with
her in close sponsility to her disappearance.
Speaker 11 (09:14):
Or like, no, it was before that, because they had
gone and.
Speaker 6 (09:24):
Picked them out and said, I think they sent picture,
but you know, like actually in the mail.
Speaker 11 (09:29):
Picture, so it must have been before that.
Speaker 6 (09:33):
And another this is anecdotally after after she disappeared and
my wedding was approaching, the bridal shop called me and
said you need to pay for her dress.
Speaker 11 (09:51):
And I lost my shit because I was so pissed.
Speaker 6 (09:58):
I said, first of all, I and I'm just in
just getting out of college, early twenties, and I said,
you have her deposit and you have to dress.
Speaker 11 (10:08):
I think you're good.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
Yeah, I was gonna say that she ever pick it up.
Speaker 11 (10:11):
Never picked it up. We never picked it up. You know.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
What was the date of your wedding.
Speaker 11 (10:20):
It was August sixth, nineteen eighty three.
Speaker 5 (10:26):
The fact that Karen was set to be one of
two bridesmaids in one of her best friend's weddings says
something that I think is just really compelling. I mean,
in talking to Heidi, we know that Karen had gone
with Heidi's sister to try on her dress. She picked
out her dress, and she paid her deposit for too.
And Karen even sent some pictures of the dress to
Heidi in Texas not long before she went missing.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
Yeah, I don't think you do all those things and
then just take off. I don't think Karen would want
to miss that wedding. It seemed like it was something
that was pretty.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
Important to her, right, Yeah.
Speaker 5 (10:57):
I mean, Heidi is convinced that Karen did not just
take off. She said there was no way Karen would
have left and missed that wedding without telling her. Heidi
was pretty emotional in talking with us about Karen and
missing that wedding.
Speaker 11 (11:10):
It was devastating. I mean, it's just so sad. You know.
People said, well, are you going to replace her? You know,
and I'm like, she can't be replaced. There's there's gonna
be an empty spot.
Speaker 4 (11:21):
You know.
Speaker 11 (11:22):
It was sad and there was kind of it just
you know, leaves a whole a whole.
Speaker 5 (11:29):
Another very close friend of Karen's is Denise. Denise and
Karen met at music camp and Iowa's kids, and she
had a lot of fond memories involving Karen.
Speaker 13 (11:39):
Hmm. She was so much fun, personable, kind of a character,
if you will. So we every evening at band camp
we would have a kazoo parade. She went and got
kazoos for all of this, So we played kazoos and
we might have did some practical jokes on some of
the girls in the dorms, you know, like short sheet
(12:01):
at their sheets and things like that. But the very
I just a personable. Like I said before, one of
those friends that we would not see each other for months,
and then we just took it up from where we were.
Beyond that. I think one time we carved pumpkins when
she came to my house in the fall. One time
(12:24):
we convinced my parents that she had a driver's license
and that we should be able to use one of
the cars to drive around town. I grew up in
a really small town, nine hundred people, and she was
pulling it out of the garage and might have dinked
the window, you know, the mirror. I remember, we were
(12:44):
like convinced my apparents that it was okay she could drive,
She could drive. Yeah, just all around good person.
Speaker 7 (12:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Niece also described Karen as she remembered her.
Speaker 13 (13:03):
She was taller than I was, thinner, longer, brown hair,
not a person that would wear a lot of makeup. No,
not high maintenance, just beautiful girl from the Midwest.
Speaker 5 (13:20):
Yeah, considers like well dressed, like up with the fashion
or just not so much up with the fashion.
Speaker 13 (13:26):
Yeah, I don't know if I paid any attention then
I was from Iowa. Yeah, homelike, homelike, wholesome. Okay, No,
none of this, None of that just.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
People kind of describe a kind of a girl next door.
Speaker 14 (13:40):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Yes.
Speaker 5 (13:44):
During our interview, we asked her directly about the theory
that Karen just ran away and about how Karen's disappearance
has impacted her. Is there any chance that you think
she could have just ran away voluntarily, like said.
Speaker 11 (13:57):
I'm done not exiting my life. Never, okay.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
And one of the reason that you would think that,
if you.
Speaker 13 (14:01):
Don't mind me asking, just because she was so connected
to her family, in her job and her friends. Right,
she just wasn't flaky. She wasn't I want to say
she wasn't spontaneous, but she wasn't spontaneous like that, you know.
Speaker 11 (14:17):
Like.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
You think if something's going on, like an issue with work,
or an issue with her family, or an issue with Terry.
Speaker 11 (14:25):
That she would have reached out to one of.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Us, come out and see you or called you or something.
Speaker 11 (14:29):
Yes, yes, can you.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
Just kind of, you know, describe how Karen's disappearance has
impacted you.
Speaker 13 (14:42):
I can't even explain it all right, and particularly being
at a at that young age and not having any answers,
and it it all in that tr time frame. I'd
(15:02):
had two friends dying car accidents, and then shortly after
she I had four men were four young adult men
were in a car, and three of 'em were some
of my best friends from high school. So it was
all within a matter of a couple of years, all
of that, and I I don't know if it's ever
(15:29):
anything that you ever get over and then how do
you deal with it? Right?
Speaker 11 (15:35):
And I don't know if I always dealt.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
With it sure, I mean I can only imagine.
Speaker 13 (15:40):
Right, Thank thank goodness, her mom through all of the
years has been her mom is such a solid person.
She's just been amazing. Yeah, you know, cause we kept
up through the you know, Christmas cards and writing back
and forth and staying in touch.
Speaker 11 (15:57):
And is there any hope that always.
Speaker 13 (16:00):
There's going We're going to find her. We're going to
find her. And I get that gut feeling like when
you called, I literally walked on the hall and I
was crying. I'm like, we're finally going to get an answer.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
Yeah, I mean, I just I really hope we can
get an answer. For the family and these friends. It's
been really hard listening to them all these years. I mean,
it's a lot of people breaking down, very emotional, very upset.
Karen clearly had a huge impact on a lot of
different people's lives.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (16:29):
We spoke to a number of Karen's coworkers, including Eloise,
who met Karen in nineteen seventy nine and worked with
her on a daily basis. Elouise still has a file
that she keeps of newspaper articles and letters for Karen's case.
She also helped organize the Karen Sheeper's Action Committee with
multiple employees. They helped plan searches and prayer circles, and
(16:49):
even wrote letters and worked on action plans to help
find Karen. We asked Eloise to describe Karen to us.
Speaker 9 (16:56):
Karen was very young, very up beat, always had a smile,
willing to talk to anyone and share things about herself
or her family or how hard our jobs were.
Speaker 11 (17:13):
Very friendly, very outgoing. People like to be around her.
But yeah, that's what I remember about Karen.
Speaker 4 (17:26):
Yeah, and you know, just like everybody else, Matt Eloise
basically discounts the idea that Karen would take off and
really doesn't think Karen would have hurt herself.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
Do you think it's possible for Karen to just take
off and leave?
Speaker 4 (17:38):
No, And is there anything in her background or when
you knew her for this four and a half years
or four years that would make you think she would
herself or kill herself or something like that.
Speaker 11 (17:47):
Definitely not.
Speaker 5 (17:50):
We asked Eloise as well, how Karen's disappearance has affected
her in her life? So after all these years, how
is this kind of affected your life?
Speaker 11 (18:03):
It does? It has affected me?
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Yeah?
Speaker 11 (18:06):
The first Uh, the initial time was just like.
Speaker 9 (18:12):
Worry, Yeah, and is there something that we could have
done or said? And basically since that night, nobody leaves
until every and if there's one person that wants to stay,
somebody else will stay, you know, every anniversary. It would
(18:33):
hit us yeah, yeah, and then.
Speaker 11 (18:38):
For me it's the nightmares.
Speaker 15 (18:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 9 (18:40):
And I put off looking at this file until just
last night because I'm like.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
Yeah, yeah, I can see it's a affecting you now
just talking about it.
Speaker 13 (18:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 9 (18:51):
Yeah, And you have to accept that there's really nothing
you can do.
Speaker 11 (18:55):
Yeah, and even back then, you know, we did all that.
We knew that too, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
You know, Matt.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
I mean we've talked to a lot of different coworkers,
including Eloise obviously, but other people too, and literally nobody
thinks that she would just take off right, and literally
nobody thinks.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
That she would hurt herself.
Speaker 4 (19:13):
We talked to coworkers at the party that were there
on April fifteenth, and they said she was talking about
this project that was coming up. She was excited about it.
She even talked about that night at the party, right.
She just didn't seem to be someone that came off
to them as being depressed or suicidal. She was kind
of always upbeat.
Speaker 5 (19:30):
Yeah, yeah, I mean the coworkers described her as someone
who was always positive at work, on time, showed up
on time at work, worked really hard, and that she
always had a joy. She was just a positive person
around the office. I mean, other people described her as
just always having a pretty smile or like a very
friendly demeanor. I mean literally none of her coworkers believed
(19:52):
to know to this day that Karen left of you know,
on her own free will, and a number of them
took a step that was pretty powerful to make that
opinion known at the time.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
You mean the letter they wrote. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (20:03):
Yeah, So there were some articles about Karen's disappearance in
local papers in the couple days after she went missing.
But Karen's coworkers read those articles and they felt like
they weren't as accurate as they could have been, and
they really wanted to put their two cents on that.
So people are pretty passionate about it. Nearly forty coworkers
signed an open letter expressing their kind of displeasure with
the newspaper articles at the time.
Speaker 7 (20:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
They submitted this letter on April twenty first, nineteen eighty three,
just three days after Karen went missing.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
Here's that letter.
Speaker 14 (20:31):
Dear sirs, we wish we could do something to help.
Your brief article is to be commended for appearing so
soon after the news release and for effectively catching the
reader's attention. However, we who know Karen want to set
the record straight on some points. That she probably lived
(20:53):
in Elgin is misleading at worst, inaccurate at best. Her
coworkers could help you very beyond any doubt that Karen
lived in Elgin. She was with many of us at P. M.
Bentley's that night of her disappearance. It was an information
graduation celebration. None of us were mingling with strangers, but
(21:16):
only with trusted friends. Karen was the last of our
party to leave P. M. Bentley's and had not been
heard of since. We would like to assure the media
and the investigators that we are quite certain Karen's disappearance
was not voluntary on her part. We have never known
her to act irresponsibly. None of us believe that Karen
(21:40):
was despondent or had any reason to disappear. It keep
some of us awake at night, wondering what could have
happened to our friend and why it was perhaps necessary
to omit such details as the above from your report.
But we think your careless wording fails to convey to
(22:03):
the unknowing reader that this is a case demanding vigilance
from everyone, not probably sincerely, Karen's coworkers.
Speaker 5 (22:14):
You know, I think this letter speaks volumes about the
impact that Karen's disappearance had on people. You know, coworkers
formed of Karen Sheeper's Action Committee after she went missing,
too They organized para circles, searches, wrote letters, put up
posters around the area and did everything they could to
get her story out. Even more, it really is a
testament to how much people in her life, even people
(22:36):
you know that she didn't know well at work, all
really seemed to care about her and wanted answers.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Definitely.
Speaker 4 (22:42):
I mean, like we said, every person we've talked to
has had really great things to say about Karen. I
don't think we've really heard anything negative about her. For people,
it seems like everyone kind of describes her as that
girl that you meet her, and she's just somebody you
like immediately.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
Yeah. I'm always surprised too, Matt. You know, we talked
to these people.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
It's forty years later, but every time we call somebody
or meet somebody, they're very eager to talk to us,
whether it's family, friends, coworkers, and they all say something similar.
It's something like, you know, it's crazy you'd called, I
was just thinking about her the other day, or you know,
so and so and I were just talking about Karen
like a week ago. I can't believe you called. We
(23:20):
were just thinking about her.
Speaker 13 (23:21):
Yep.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
For his part, even Karen's boyfriend at the time, Terry,
didn't seem to think that she would just disappear. Unfortunately,
Terry passed away, so we can't talk to him, but
he was quoted in a bunch of different newspaper articles
and interviews back at the time in the eighties, and
he had one statement that read in part something like this.
Speaker 15 (23:42):
It's something I'll always question and I feel in a
way I'll never find out year of thirty six or
thirty seven boys bodies at John Wayne Gacy's. I never
heard those boys were missing. I feel like I have
to get my life back together again. It's driving me crazy.
(24:04):
It would have been different if we said goodbye, if
somebody would have seen her struggle, or if she would
have mentioned to somebody. There's just absolutely no reason that
girl should have disappeared on around.
Speaker 5 (24:18):
Yeah, and you know, beyond just the picture that friends
and family have painted for us of Karen and the
fact that no one seems to think that she would
have just taken off, there are two very distinct things
that just stick out to me. The first one is
at her bank account, I mean, it was never touched.
The fact that her family, friends, and even her coworkers
basically reject that idea that she would have run away
(24:38):
is a good reason to believe that she didn't run away.
But all that money sitting in that account, you know,
and never being used or touched or excessed by anybody
is something that's pretty tangible. It's not just based on
people's perceptions, you know, and memories of Karen.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
Yeah, I mean, perceptions can be one thing, but obviously
us knowing that her belongings were left behind and her
money was left behind, it is something tangible we.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
Can hold on to, like she was going to come back.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
Yeah, and I think besides the bankcout, I'm pretty sure
I know what you're going to say is number two. Yeah,
you mean the car, Yeah, the car. We always come
back to the car. I know you and I have
talked about the car, probably almost as much as we've
talked about Karen.
Speaker 13 (25:13):
Yep.
Speaker 4 (25:14):
That car being totally gone really changes kind of the
calculus of what we would think about. So if her
car was still at PM Betley's, for example, we'd look
at this differently. If her car was found at Terry's
house or at her house, or was found abandoned somewhere,
that would totally change the different theories we had about
this case and kind of how we would go about it.
But the car's just gone, which is a huge part
(25:35):
of this case.
Speaker 5 (25:36):
Yeah, the you know, the car is one lead that
always gets brought back into the discussion on all these theories,
and police, you know, back then, did follow up on
the car. You know, so back in nineteen eighty three,
police send her license plate information the VIN number in
the description of her vehicle to all fifty states, including
Alaska and Hawaii. No agency ever reported ever having any
(25:57):
contact with it or ever coming across it. Vehicle was
never retitled, never stopped by the police, and never located.
Speaker 4 (26:04):
Yeah, we have other information from newspaper articles that police
flew over different salvage yards looking for the car. Like
it seems like they really looked for this car back then.
I just have to say, Karen leaving and running away
to start a new life just seems like a pretty
unlikely scenario from the get go, based on what we've
gathered from the family and friends. You know, she had
a great job, she was making good money, she was
(26:25):
about to be in her best friend's wedding. It seems
like she had a lot to live for and look
forward to. But then with this cargoing missing, it just
adds to that unlikeliness. I think, like the car should
have shown up somewhere if she just took off.
Speaker 5 (26:37):
I'd add that our added option that Karen harmed herself
in some way is also one that I think seems
pretty unlikely to I mean, every single person rejected the
idea that she would harm herself in some way. I know,
we can't, you know, one hundred percent roll that out.
And again, her car is a sticking point for that,
Like if she hurt herself, well, then where did the cargo?
Speaker 3 (26:57):
Yeah, we're gonna I mean, we're gonna look at that obviously.
Speaker 4 (27:00):
And one of other theories when we talk about bodies
of water, so is the car and a body of
water somewhere, right, you know, we just don't know that yet.
I suppose it's possible, like there's a scenario where she
intentionally drives the car into some body of water, but
it seems pretty far fetched to this point, to be
quite honest. I mean, like you said, the friends, the family,
they reject that there's no evidence of any mental health history, suicide, attempts,
(27:22):
drug use, nothing like that in her background that would
suggest that she would do something like that.
Speaker 5 (27:27):
Yeah, I mean, and she had Heidi's wedding coming up,
and she had a pretty strong social structure around here.
You know, she had close friends, family. It seems way
more likely that if she was that upset, that she
would have called somebody like Denise or Heidi or another
family member. You know, she called and talked to people
pretty regularly. She wrote letters, all sorts of stuff like that,
So she was in constant contact with people in her
(27:48):
life and then poof, she just kind of vanishes. I
don't really buy that as like a reasonable option here. Plus,
none of you know, her families or friends or coworkers
who knew her better than we do buy that either.
That's pretty substantial.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 4 (28:05):
I mean, I think we can kind of put theory
number one in this, you know, in the bucket of
highly unlikely but not impossible. You know, we can't roll
it out one hundred percent, but it seems pretty unlikely.
There's some other theories I think that have way more weight,
and we're going to talk about some of those in
our next episodes. We're going to start with our next episode,
which is going to be a part one of a
two part kind of investigation into PM Bentley's that's the
(28:27):
last place that Karen was seeing.
Speaker 5 (28:29):
Yeah, that's right. I think theory number one can be
kind of put to bed here. There are some far
more intriguing theories that I think we will spend a
lot more time on to kind of explore as we
go through this season. Hopefully one of those can lead
us to some answers for Karen's family and friends. Next
episode on Somebody Knows Something, we visit the location where
(28:51):
PM Bentley's was in nineteen eighty three as we continue
our search for Karen Sheepers. We will talk about people
associated with the bar, like workers and the owner, and
we will talk about one person who claimed that he
saw care in that night, both inside and outside the bar,
just before she went missing. Tune in next episode is
we investigate theory number two Something happened at Pmbentley's.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
If you, or anyone you know has information about this
case or any other cold case in Elgin, please contact
the Elgin Police Department Cold Case email at cold Case
tips at elginil dot gov or the cold Case tip
line at eight four seven two eight nine cold. You
can also review cold case information on the Elgin Police
(29:42):
Department's Transparency Hub by going to elginil dot gov and
navigating to the Elgin Police Department's Transparency Hub, where every
cold case, homicide, and missing person's case is listed, with
photographs and information about each case.
This podcast is based on information sourced primarily from police
and media reports, but certain names and other identifying details
may have been changed or altered for privacy and security reasons.
While the events in cases discussed are based on real investigations,
some aspects may be simplified for time and for narrative purposes.
(00:25):
Voice actors have been used to read from statements or documents.
All information presented is intended solely to inform and raise awareness.
Hosts may discuss theories regarding the cases examined in this podcast,
but such discussions are not intended to and should not
(00:46):
be considered by the listener to be legal conclusions. All
persons discussed are considered innocent until proven guilty in a
court of law. Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
This is Chief Anna Lally. Welcome to Somebody Knows Something,
a podcast from the Elgin Police Department's Cold Case Unit.
In this podcast, we will shed new light on cold
cases in the city of Elgin by sharing untold details
and by encouraging anyone with information to come forward. You
will come along with real cold case detectives as they
(01:23):
investigate active cold cases in real time and seek justice
for the victims and closure for their families. We believe
that the Elgin Police Department and our community can work
together to bring closure to cold cases because we know
that in these cases, somebody knows something.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Welcome to somebody knows something.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
The Elgin Police Department Cold Case Podcast, I'm Detective Andrew
Houten and.
Speaker 5 (01:51):
I'm Detective Matt Vartanian. In our first two episodes, we
walked through the hours leading up to Karen Sheeper's disappearance
on April sixth of nineteen eighty three and provided our
six overarching theories about what could have happened to Karen.
We also spoke to multiple members of Karen's family to
get to know Karen. Now it's time to start our
investigation into our theories and discuss each one. In this episode,
(02:16):
we look at theory number one. Karen made a desperate choice.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Yeah, so I know, we talked Matt.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
Theory one kind of came from the original idea that
some people in law enforcement had back in eighty three,
and that was that Karen she just took off right,
you know, she went to blow off some scheme. Maybe
she got an argument with her boyfriend and picked up
roots and left voluntarily. Obviously she never came back, so
we have to look at the idea at least that
she just took off on her own. We also decided
to expand that theory and include the option that Karen
(02:45):
made a different choice, which would be somehow harming herself,
and kind of made that into one theory. So it's
Karen made a voluntary choice to either leave or to
harm herself in some way, you.
Speaker 5 (02:55):
Know, Andrew, I think we should start by saying that
it is really important. Our goal is to give every
theory equal attention and not immediately discount any option, even
if it sounds unlikely.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
You know.
Speaker 5 (03:06):
The way police typically get themselves into trouble during an
investigation is they focus on one theory or suspect and
then they fit evidence around that person or that theory.
Speaker 6 (03:15):
You know.
Speaker 5 (03:16):
So we were going to do the reverse and consider
every option to let the evidence and the facts guide
us to the most likely scenario or scenarios.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
I mean, I think one thing you want to do
in a cold case, and it's kind of tedious, it's
not really exciting, is go back through the case, identify
every person who was involved in some way, no matter
how large or how small. And that includes people like witnesses,
people of interest, police officers, investigators, and other people associated
with those people. At this point, I mean, we're talking
about like well over one hundred people in this case, right.
Speaker 5 (03:48):
Yeah, So once we reviewed the case file, we started
identifying those people we wanted to talk to, and like
you said, we're talking about a lot of people. I mean,
luckily we have tracked down a number of friends and
family and other people involved, but we are still looking
to speak with a bunch of other people for this case.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
Yeah, I mean we've located a lot of people, including
some new people that were never interviewed back then. And
that's one really big reason why we're doing this podcast,
right is we want to track people down, and we
want to ask our listeners to help us to do
that throughout the season. You know, if you have information,
you can notify us anonymously. But we're just trying to
locate people that maybe people we did talk to back
then that we want to talk to again, or people
(04:26):
that were never spoken.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
To back then.
Speaker 5 (04:29):
Yeah, and you know, witnesses can provide us names and
contact information or remain anonymous that they want to. I mean,
we really, we just we really need your help, you know,
the public's help to continue investigating the leads that we
are generating in this investigation. Who you are is less
important to us than what you know. So to get
(04:49):
an idea about the likelihood that Karen would just take
off her harmer self, we felt like our best course
of action here was to talk to a number of
her friends, family members, and coworkers in this episode. So
we're going to share their reflections and thoughts with our
listeners as re review three number one. Let's start with
Karen's brother Dale.
Speaker 7 (05:08):
I mean, she was tough. She grew up with, you know,
five brothers. So you're not going to give up. You're
not gonna, you know, do something to hurt yourself or
kill yourself or whatever. You're not You're not going.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
To do that.
Speaker 7 (05:19):
You're tough and you're gonna You're going to show somebody
else that you know, I can I can survive this.
You're not going to ruin my life or take over
my life or anything like that.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
Okay, So besides Dale, you know, we got other family
members that we were able to talk to. So let's
let's listen to Gary, Karen's big brother, Yeah, and Susan
her little sister and their kind of thoughts. Do you
think it's likely that she would just up and take
off without telling anybody you.
Speaker 8 (05:48):
And even if she did, I still think she would
have taken her credit cards and check book with her. Sure,
you know, because there was like, what almost ten thousand dollars,
it was like eight thousand dollars and some you know,
if you're gonna if you're gonna go off and start
a new life, you're probably gonna want your nest egg.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Yeah, I know. Our bank account was never touched after
this time frame.
Speaker 9 (06:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 10 (06:14):
She was a very responsible person. I mean she had
a life insurance, she had savings, you know, she had credit,
you know, she had she bought a piano, I mean
she had everything was bad. Yeah, she was a very
responsible person for as young as she was. I mean yeah,
(06:38):
to the extent that if she was gonna she was
just going to disappear or run away or whatever.
Speaker 11 (06:46):
You just wouldn't do it in this in this fashion.
Speaker 10 (06:50):
And I don't think that all these years would go
by when you didn't at some point reach back out
to your mom and say.
Speaker 11 (06:57):
You know, I had to get away, you know whatever.
Speaker 8 (07:02):
Yeah, moved to Canada, ahead, you know whatever.
Speaker 10 (07:05):
She wasn't a free spirited hippie type person that you
could see going off to some commune.
Speaker 11 (07:11):
Or whatever and not saying anything to anybody. She's way
too responsible for that.
Speaker 5 (07:18):
The family is right that Karen had a substantial amount
of money for nineteen eighty three in her bank account.
She had just gotten paid on Friday, April fifteenth, and
had received her tax return of over one thousand dollars.
None of her money had ever been touched. It seems
unlikely that she would up and leave without taking that
kind of money with.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Her, right, Yeah, I think so. I mean yeah, I.
Speaker 5 (07:39):
Mean, after all, it would be really helpful to have
several thousand dollars to start fresh somewhere else.
Speaker 4 (07:44):
Yeah, it seems pretty unlikely you'd leave that kind of
money behind, you know, and just take your car, no
their belongings.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
You know.
Speaker 4 (07:51):
That has never made sense to me. But we can't,
like we said, we can't discount that option just because
we off the front end of it think well, this
doesn't make sense.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
We have to still kind of look at it, right, But.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
We know people went to her apartment, Her clothes were there,
her personal effects were there. There was a lot of
stuff left behind that you would think she would take
with her if she was just going to take off.
Speaker 5 (08:10):
Yeah, and she had extended family all over the place
in Illinois and Iowa and other places. I mean Gary
told us that she would have gone to someone if
she needed to run away for some reason. I mean,
she had so many siblings, you know, cousins and other
family within a few hours of Elgin and other states
just like Texas and Utah.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
Yeah, Karen had some big reasons to stay in Illinois too.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
You know.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
One of her close friends from high school that we
spoke to was Heidi, and HEII doesn't think that Karen
would just take off either. She has a pretty compelling
reason for that. Yes, okay, yes, do you remember there's
something kind of anecdotally a police report.
Speaker 11 (08:51):
About her maybe going dress shopping or something for your wedding.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Did you guys do that together or as something she
was done on her ELB.
Speaker 12 (08:57):
She went with my mom and my sister, okay, because
I was in Texas and I just told them to
pick out whatever dresses they liked in the color that
I chose.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
You know, do you remember when they would come with
her in close sponsility to her disappearance.
Speaker 11 (09:14):
Or like, no, it was before that, because they had
gone and.
Speaker 6 (09:24):
Picked them out and said, I think they sent picture,
but you know, like actually in the mail.
Speaker 11 (09:29):
Picture, so it must have been before that.
Speaker 6 (09:33):
And another this is anecdotally after after she disappeared and
my wedding was approaching, the bridal shop called me and
said you need to pay for her dress.
Speaker 11 (09:51):
And I lost my shit because I was so pissed.
Speaker 6 (09:58):
I said, first of all, I and I'm just in
just getting out of college, early twenties, and I said,
you have her deposit and you have to dress.
Speaker 11 (10:08):
I think you're good.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
Yeah, I was gonna say that she ever pick it up.
Speaker 11 (10:11):
Never picked it up. We never picked it up. You know.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
What was the date of your wedding.
Speaker 11 (10:20):
It was August sixth, nineteen eighty three.
Speaker 5 (10:26):
The fact that Karen was set to be one of
two bridesmaids in one of her best friend's weddings says
something that I think is just really compelling. I mean,
in talking to Heidi, we know that Karen had gone
with Heidi's sister to try on her dress. She picked
out her dress, and she paid her deposit for too.
And Karen even sent some pictures of the dress to
Heidi in Texas not long before she went missing.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
Yeah, I don't think you do all those things and
then just take off. I don't think Karen would want
to miss that wedding. It seemed like it was something
that was pretty.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
Important to her, right, Yeah.
Speaker 5 (10:57):
I mean, Heidi is convinced that Karen did not just
take off. She said there was no way Karen would
have left and missed that wedding without telling her. Heidi
was pretty emotional in talking with us about Karen and
missing that wedding.
Speaker 11 (11:10):
It was devastating. I mean, it's just so sad. You know.
People said, well, are you going to replace her? You know,
and I'm like, she can't be replaced. There's there's gonna
be an empty spot.
Speaker 4 (11:21):
You know.
Speaker 11 (11:22):
It was sad and there was kind of it just
you know, leaves a whole a whole.
Speaker 5 (11:29):
Another very close friend of Karen's is Denise. Denise and
Karen met at music camp and Iowa's kids, and she
had a lot of fond memories involving Karen.
Speaker 13 (11:39):
Hmm. She was so much fun, personable, kind of a character,
if you will. So we every evening at band camp
we would have a kazoo parade. She went and got
kazoos for all of this, So we played kazoos and
we might have did some practical jokes on some of
the girls in the dorms, you know, like short sheet
(12:01):
at their sheets and things like that. But the very
I just a personable. Like I said before, one of
those friends that we would not see each other for months,
and then we just took it up from where we were.
Beyond that. I think one time we carved pumpkins when
she came to my house in the fall. One time
(12:24):
we convinced my parents that she had a driver's license
and that we should be able to use one of
the cars to drive around town. I grew up in
a really small town, nine hundred people, and she was
pulling it out of the garage and might have dinked
the window, you know, the mirror. I remember, we were
(12:44):
like convinced my apparents that it was okay she could drive,
She could drive. Yeah, just all around good person.
Speaker 7 (12:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Niece also described Karen as she remembered her.
Speaker 13 (13:03):
She was taller than I was, thinner, longer, brown hair,
not a person that would wear a lot of makeup. No,
not high maintenance, just beautiful girl from the Midwest.
Speaker 5 (13:20):
Yeah, considers like well dressed, like up with the fashion
or just not so much up with the fashion.
Speaker 13 (13:26):
Yeah, I don't know if I paid any attention then
I was from Iowa. Yeah, homelike, homelike, wholesome. Okay, No,
none of this, None of that just.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
People kind of describe a kind of a girl next door.
Speaker 14 (13:40):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Yes.
Speaker 5 (13:44):
During our interview, we asked her directly about the theory
that Karen just ran away and about how Karen's disappearance
has impacted her. Is there any chance that you think
she could have just ran away voluntarily, like said.
Speaker 11 (13:57):
I'm done not exiting my life. Never, okay.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
And one of the reason that you would think that,
if you.
Speaker 13 (14:01):
Don't mind me asking, just because she was so connected
to her family, in her job and her friends. Right,
she just wasn't flaky. She wasn't I want to say
she wasn't spontaneous, but she wasn't spontaneous like that, you know.
Speaker 11 (14:17):
Like.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
You think if something's going on, like an issue with work,
or an issue with her family, or an issue with Terry.
Speaker 11 (14:25):
That she would have reached out to one of.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Us, come out and see you or called you or something.
Speaker 11 (14:29):
Yes, yes, can you.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
Just kind of, you know, describe how Karen's disappearance has
impacted you.
Speaker 13 (14:42):
I can't even explain it all right, and particularly being
at a at that young age and not having any answers,
and it it all in that tr time frame. I'd
(15:02):
had two friends dying car accidents, and then shortly after
she I had four men were four young adult men
were in a car, and three of 'em were some
of my best friends from high school. So it was
all within a matter of a couple of years, all
of that, and I I don't know if it's ever
(15:29):
anything that you ever get over and then how do
you deal with it? Right?
Speaker 11 (15:35):
And I don't know if I always dealt.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
With it sure, I mean I can only imagine.
Speaker 13 (15:40):
Right, Thank thank goodness, her mom through all of the
years has been her mom is such a solid person.
She's just been amazing. Yeah, you know, cause we kept
up through the you know, Christmas cards and writing back
and forth and staying in touch.
Speaker 11 (15:57):
And is there any hope that always.
Speaker 13 (16:00):
There's going We're going to find her. We're going to
find her. And I get that gut feeling like when
you called, I literally walked on the hall and I
was crying. I'm like, we're finally going to get an answer.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
Yeah, I mean, I just I really hope we can
get an answer. For the family and these friends. It's
been really hard listening to them all these years. I mean,
it's a lot of people breaking down, very emotional, very upset.
Karen clearly had a huge impact on a lot of
different people's lives.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (16:29):
We spoke to a number of Karen's coworkers, including Eloise,
who met Karen in nineteen seventy nine and worked with
her on a daily basis. Elouise still has a file
that she keeps of newspaper articles and letters for Karen's case.
She also helped organize the Karen Sheeper's Action Committee with
multiple employees. They helped plan searches and prayer circles, and
(16:49):
even wrote letters and worked on action plans to help
find Karen. We asked Eloise to describe Karen to us.
Speaker 9 (16:56):
Karen was very young, very up beat, always had a smile,
willing to talk to anyone and share things about herself
or her family or how hard our jobs were.
Speaker 11 (17:13):
Very friendly, very outgoing. People like to be around her.
But yeah, that's what I remember about Karen.
Speaker 4 (17:26):
Yeah, and you know, just like everybody else, Matt Eloise
basically discounts the idea that Karen would take off and
really doesn't think Karen would have hurt herself.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
Do you think it's possible for Karen to just take
off and leave?
Speaker 4 (17:38):
No, And is there anything in her background or when
you knew her for this four and a half years
or four years that would make you think she would
herself or kill herself or something like that.
Speaker 11 (17:47):
Definitely not.
Speaker 5 (17:50):
We asked Eloise as well, how Karen's disappearance has affected
her in her life? So after all these years, how
is this kind of affected your life?
Speaker 11 (18:03):
It does? It has affected me?
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Yeah?
Speaker 11 (18:06):
The first Uh, the initial time was just like.
Speaker 9 (18:12):
Worry, Yeah, and is there something that we could have
done or said? And basically since that night, nobody leaves
until every and if there's one person that wants to stay,
somebody else will stay, you know, every anniversary. It would
(18:33):
hit us yeah, yeah, and then.
Speaker 11 (18:38):
For me it's the nightmares.
Speaker 15 (18:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 9 (18:40):
And I put off looking at this file until just
last night because I'm like.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
Yeah, yeah, I can see it's a affecting you now
just talking about it.
Speaker 13 (18:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 9 (18:51):
Yeah, And you have to accept that there's really nothing
you can do.
Speaker 11 (18:55):
Yeah, and even back then, you know, we did all that.
We knew that too, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
You know, Matt.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
I mean we've talked to a lot of different coworkers,
including Eloise obviously, but other people too, and literally nobody
thinks that she would just take off right, and literally
nobody thinks.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
That she would hurt herself.
Speaker 4 (19:13):
We talked to coworkers at the party that were there
on April fifteenth, and they said she was talking about
this project that was coming up. She was excited about it.
She even talked about that night at the party, right.
She just didn't seem to be someone that came off
to them as being depressed or suicidal. She was kind
of always upbeat.
Speaker 5 (19:30):
Yeah, yeah, I mean the coworkers described her as someone
who was always positive at work, on time, showed up
on time at work, worked really hard, and that she
always had a joy. She was just a positive person
around the office. I mean, other people described her as
just always having a pretty smile or like a very
friendly demeanor. I mean literally none of her coworkers believed
(19:52):
to know to this day that Karen left of you know,
on her own free will, and a number of them
took a step that was pretty powerful to make that
opinion known at the time.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
You mean the letter they wrote. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (20:03):
Yeah, So there were some articles about Karen's disappearance in
local papers in the couple days after she went missing.
But Karen's coworkers read those articles and they felt like
they weren't as accurate as they could have been, and
they really wanted to put their two cents on that.
So people are pretty passionate about it. Nearly forty coworkers
signed an open letter expressing their kind of displeasure with
the newspaper articles at the time.
Speaker 7 (20:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
They submitted this letter on April twenty first, nineteen eighty three,
just three days after Karen went missing.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
Here's that letter.
Speaker 14 (20:31):
Dear sirs, we wish we could do something to help.
Your brief article is to be commended for appearing so
soon after the news release and for effectively catching the
reader's attention. However, we who know Karen want to set
the record straight on some points. That she probably lived
(20:53):
in Elgin is misleading at worst, inaccurate at best. Her
coworkers could help you very beyond any doubt that Karen
lived in Elgin. She was with many of us at P. M.
Bentley's that night of her disappearance. It was an information
graduation celebration. None of us were mingling with strangers, but
(21:16):
only with trusted friends. Karen was the last of our
party to leave P. M. Bentley's and had not been
heard of since. We would like to assure the media
and the investigators that we are quite certain Karen's disappearance
was not voluntary on her part. We have never known
her to act irresponsibly. None of us believe that Karen
(21:40):
was despondent or had any reason to disappear. It keep
some of us awake at night, wondering what could have
happened to our friend and why it was perhaps necessary
to omit such details as the above from your report.
But we think your careless wording fails to convey to
(22:03):
the unknowing reader that this is a case demanding vigilance
from everyone, not probably sincerely, Karen's coworkers.
Speaker 5 (22:14):
You know, I think this letter speaks volumes about the
impact that Karen's disappearance had on people. You know, coworkers
formed of Karen Sheeper's Action Committee after she went missing,
too They organized para circles, searches, wrote letters, put up
posters around the area and did everything they could to
get her story out. Even more, it really is a
testament to how much people in her life, even people
(22:36):
you know that she didn't know well at work, all
really seemed to care about her and wanted answers.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Definitely.
Speaker 4 (22:42):
I mean, like we said, every person we've talked to
has had really great things to say about Karen. I
don't think we've really heard anything negative about her. For people,
it seems like everyone kind of describes her as that
girl that you meet her, and she's just somebody you
like immediately.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
Yeah. I'm always surprised too, Matt. You know, we talked
to these people.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
It's forty years later, but every time we call somebody
or meet somebody, they're very eager to talk to us,
whether it's family, friends, coworkers, and they all say something similar.
It's something like, you know, it's crazy you'd called, I
was just thinking about her the other day, or you know,
so and so and I were just talking about Karen
like a week ago. I can't believe you called. We
(23:20):
were just thinking about her.
Speaker 13 (23:21):
Yep.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
For his part, even Karen's boyfriend at the time, Terry,
didn't seem to think that she would just disappear. Unfortunately,
Terry passed away, so we can't talk to him, but
he was quoted in a bunch of different newspaper articles
and interviews back at the time in the eighties, and
he had one statement that read in part something like this.
Speaker 15 (23:42):
It's something I'll always question and I feel in a
way I'll never find out year of thirty six or
thirty seven boys bodies at John Wayne Gacy's. I never
heard those boys were missing. I feel like I have
to get my life back together again. It's driving me crazy.
(24:04):
It would have been different if we said goodbye, if
somebody would have seen her struggle, or if she would
have mentioned to somebody. There's just absolutely no reason that
girl should have disappeared on around.
Speaker 5 (24:18):
Yeah, and you know, beyond just the picture that friends
and family have painted for us of Karen and the
fact that no one seems to think that she would
have just taken off, there are two very distinct things
that just stick out to me. The first one is
at her bank account, I mean, it was never touched.
The fact that her family, friends, and even her coworkers
basically reject that idea that she would have run away
(24:38):
is a good reason to believe that she didn't run away.
But all that money sitting in that account, you know,
and never being used or touched or excessed by anybody
is something that's pretty tangible. It's not just based on
people's perceptions, you know, and memories of Karen.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
Yeah, I mean, perceptions can be one thing, but obviously
us knowing that her belongings were left behind and her
money was left behind, it is something tangible we.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
Can hold on to, like she was going to come back.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
Yeah, and I think besides the bankcout, I'm pretty sure
I know what you're going to say is number two. Yeah,
you mean the car, Yeah, the car. We always come
back to the car. I know you and I have
talked about the car, probably almost as much as we've
talked about Karen.
Speaker 13 (25:13):
Yep.
Speaker 4 (25:14):
That car being totally gone really changes kind of the
calculus of what we would think about. So if her
car was still at PM Betley's, for example, we'd look
at this differently. If her car was found at Terry's
house or at her house, or was found abandoned somewhere,
that would totally change the different theories we had about
this case and kind of how we would go about it.
But the car's just gone, which is a huge part
(25:35):
of this case.
Speaker 5 (25:36):
Yeah, the you know, the car is one lead that
always gets brought back into the discussion on all these theories,
and police, you know, back then, did follow up on
the car. You know, so back in nineteen eighty three,
police send her license plate information the VIN number in
the description of her vehicle to all fifty states, including
Alaska and Hawaii. No agency ever reported ever having any
(25:57):
contact with it or ever coming across it. Vehicle was
never retitled, never stopped by the police, and never located.
Speaker 4 (26:04):
Yeah, we have other information from newspaper articles that police
flew over different salvage yards looking for the car. Like
it seems like they really looked for this car back then.
I just have to say, Karen leaving and running away
to start a new life just seems like a pretty
unlikely scenario from the get go, based on what we've
gathered from the family and friends. You know, she had
a great job, she was making good money, she was
(26:25):
about to be in her best friend's wedding. It seems
like she had a lot to live for and look
forward to. But then with this cargoing missing, it just
adds to that unlikeliness. I think, like the car should
have shown up somewhere if she just took off.
Speaker 5 (26:37):
I'd add that our added option that Karen harmed herself
in some way is also one that I think seems
pretty unlikely to I mean, every single person rejected the
idea that she would harm herself in some way. I know,
we can't, you know, one hundred percent roll that out.
And again, her car is a sticking point for that,
Like if she hurt herself, well, then where did the cargo?
Speaker 3 (26:57):
Yeah, we're gonna I mean, we're gonna look at that obviously.
Speaker 4 (27:00):
And one of other theories when we talk about bodies
of water, so is the car and a body of
water somewhere, right, you know, we just don't know that yet.
I suppose it's possible, like there's a scenario where she
intentionally drives the car into some body of water, but
it seems pretty far fetched to this point, to be
quite honest. I mean, like you said, the friends, the family,
they reject that there's no evidence of any mental health history, suicide, attempts,
(27:22):
drug use, nothing like that in her background that would
suggest that she would do something like that.
Speaker 5 (27:27):
Yeah, I mean, and she had Heidi's wedding coming up,
and she had a pretty strong social structure around here.
You know, she had close friends, family. It seems way
more likely that if she was that upset, that she
would have called somebody like Denise or Heidi or another
family member. You know, she called and talked to people
pretty regularly. She wrote letters, all sorts of stuff like that,
So she was in constant contact with people in her
(27:48):
life and then poof, she just kind of vanishes. I
don't really buy that as like a reasonable option here. Plus,
none of you know, her families or friends or coworkers
who knew her better than we do buy that either.
That's pretty substantial.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 4 (28:05):
I mean, I think we can kind of put theory
number one in this, you know, in the bucket of
highly unlikely but not impossible. You know, we can't roll
it out one hundred percent, but it seems pretty unlikely.
There's some other theories I think that have way more weight,
and we're going to talk about some of those in
our next episodes. We're going to start with our next episode,
which is going to be a part one of a
two part kind of investigation into PM Bentley's that's the
(28:27):
last place that Karen was seeing.
Speaker 5 (28:29):
Yeah, that's right. I think theory number one can be
kind of put to bed here. There are some far
more intriguing theories that I think we will spend a
lot more time on to kind of explore as we
go through this season. Hopefully one of those can lead
us to some answers for Karen's family and friends. Next
episode on Somebody Knows Something, we visit the location where
(28:51):
PM Bentley's was in nineteen eighty three as we continue
our search for Karen Sheepers. We will talk about people
associated with the bar, like workers and the owner, and
we will talk about one person who claimed that he
saw care in that night, both inside and outside the bar,
just before she went missing. Tune in next episode is
we investigate theory number two Something happened at Pmbentley's.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
If you, or anyone you know has information about this
case or any other cold case in Elgin, please contact
the Elgin Police Department Cold Case email at cold Case
tips at elginil dot gov or the cold Case tip
line at eight four seven two eight nine cold. You
can also review cold case information on the Elgin Police
(29:42):
Department's Transparency Hub by going to elginil dot gov and
navigating to the Elgin Police Department's Transparency Hub, where every
cold case, homicide, and missing person's case is listed, with
photographs and information about each case.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal
Gregg Rosenthal and a rotating crew of elite NFL Media co-hosts, including Patrick Claybon, Colleen Wolfe, Steve Wyche, Nick Shook and Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic get you caught up daily on all the NFL news and analysis you need to be smarter and funnier than your friends.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.