September 6, 2024 • 44 mins
Today's episode, True Crime Fest Northwest 2024, features Kim K. from the True Crime Bullsh** team, as she asks us the most asked questions from our weekend at the event.
We'd also like to say that it was really great to meet so many of you last weekend! We had some great conversations and met some really incredible people.
We hope you enjoy the episode!
We'd also like to thank our Patreon Producers:
Heather Horton Whedon
Nicole Guzman
Colleen Sullivan
Lynnlie Tuschoff
Attar Mann
And Katelyn James
We'd also like to say that it was really great to meet so many of you last weekend! We had some great conversations and met some really incredible people.
We hope you enjoy the episode!
We'd also like to thank our Patreon Producers:
Heather Horton Whedon
Nicole Guzman
Colleen Sullivan
Lynnlie Tuschoff
Attar Mann
And Katelyn James
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
This is a studio both and collaboration.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Hey everyone, welcome to Somewhere in the Pines. This is Joshua.
Last week we were lucky enough to attend True Crime
Fest Northwest and Portland, Oregon. We noticed that we were
getting asked a lot of the same questions, so we
thought it might be a good idea to sit down
and go through the most commonly asked questions with you.
We were joined by Kim Kay, a researcher from True
Crime Bullshit, who will lead the conversation.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Enjoy I just wanted to start off by thanking you both.
You know, I'm kind of a background girl and I
don't really like to be in the mix of everything,
but I really value your consent and collaboration. Those are
my research love languages. So I just wanted to make
(01:18):
that clear that I really appreciate how you are approaching
me and research collaboration in general. Like I know you
speak highly of other partners like Peggy and Hayden, and
that's just a testament to your guys's character, so I
really appreciate it. But I've been researching this case since
(01:41):
listening to True Crime Bullshit since twenty twenty, and I
began providing research to the team in twenty twenty two,
and I officially adjoined them this January. And it's been
a fun experience to hone these various skills and methodologies,
but especially in such a niche subject. You know, it's
(02:03):
really it's really you guys are lucky because you have
each other to kind of bounce ideas off of. Like
here I am in sort of a satellite world, trying
to like find people to communicate with on the research
that I'm doing. So and as I've said before, my
husband is really enjoys that you guys get to hear
(02:24):
all of this now, So yeah, you're doing him a
good service. So so what is this? Is this a
treasure hunt? Is uh? You guys just running around in
the woods. What is this?
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Yeah? We got asked that quite a bit this weekend.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Yeah, we got we got this question quite a bit
from people that have obviously never heard of us. Like
you said, it's a very niche topic, and so even
big true crime fans don't always know what we're talking about.
I always start by saying, it's kind of a it's
a true crime adventure. Sure, you know, we're out in
the field looking for leads and tips, and you know,
(03:06):
talking with the public and talking with law enforcement. We
have to of course explain the caches and what those
are and what those were used for, and so it
kind of turns into a long story. But basically we
think that we can connect missing persons to israel Keys
(03:27):
through the caches, and so that's our main focus and
our main objective.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Yeah, I just I spoke with a girlfriend who I
hadn't seen for a while, just this last weekend, and
trying to describe what we do. Just for a moment,
you're like, do I sound crazy? Well, my friend look
at me a little different after. But honestly, like every
time I've ever talked to anybody about the research, they're
(03:57):
really excited.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
I think probably a good thing that a lot of
people have already heard true kind bullshit, so they were
able to really understand what we're doing is a bit
of a companion piece to what they're doing, and just
I think people hearing that we're collaborating with them, I
think was also really exciting for people that haven't yet
heard of our podcasts, just to know that there's more
(04:20):
progress and the fact that we're teaming up and trying
to advance the case together, is I think exciting to
a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
We always get kind of the same reaction when we
tell them that we're looking for the cash. Is they're
just like, yes, yes, Like that's what I've been asking for,
That's what I've been hoping for. And so that's very
motivating and feels good too, because that's how we felt,
is you know, like someone's got to go look for
these things. We feel it's the most tangible way to
(04:51):
connect more evidence to the case.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Yeah, just to follow up on that, I remember hearing
about you guys a while back and thinking, how the
hell are they going to do it? Right? Like, I
think that that's probably a question that a lot of people,
you know, they just picture two guys wandering the woods
and with the metal detector hoping to stumble upon something.
(05:15):
But after hearing about your methodology and attention to like
the facts and details it, it became evident to me
at least that you know, you have a really good
chance to find something.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
So, you know, some people made it seem as though
it was really just going to be us just walking
around the woods and nothing that will never find anything,
and nothing of importance will overcome of this. So it's
exciting for somebody like you to hear it and get
encouraged and feel that there's actually more chance of success
than originally I thought.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
So thank you for that. Quite a bit of research
that goes into this. It's not you know, and I
don't think that I imagine that if I would have heard
a podcast like this, I maybe would have had the
same thoughts of like, oh, they're just going to wander
around and what do they think they're going to accomplish.
But years of research has gone into this, and you know,
(06:13):
like you say, the methodology of it is calculated and meaningful,
and we you know, really try to pay attention to
the case file, on the facts and let that kind
of lead our way rather than just a wild goose chase.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
How did you get into searching for the Cashes?
Speaker 2 (06:35):
I think we first heard about Israel Keys through True Kreme.
Well actually it wasn't Truekrem bullshit. It was Josh Hallmark
was on another show, The Missing Brandon Maitland, and he
was discussing just the Keys in general with the host there.
You know, we just discussed we've been talking about doing
a project together. We had a few different ideas, but
the fact that you know, I'm from New York, live
(06:57):
in Oregon, Dakota has been Deco, grew up in Alaska
and lived in Washington for a while. The fact that
we kind of knew all of these areas pretty well,
and you know, we spend most of the time in
the woods. Anyways, we just thought it might be a
good opportunity. Like we just felt we had like a
leg up by being so familiar with the areas to
begin with, so we thought, why not give it a try.
(07:18):
And it's such an addictive topic and story that it
was pretty easy to get really invested in it right away.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Yeah, I think that that is you know, kind of
the key element to the Keys case that really draws
people in is that he was everywhere in the US,
it seems like at some point and just sort of
that that really resonates with a lot of listeners and
a lot of a lot of people who are getting
(07:50):
into true crime and wanting to, like, you know, do
research or read up like Keys. Is that that figure
that you can kind of see almost anywhere. So how
can listeners help?
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Yeah, we do get a lot of inquiries about helping
hands and things like that, which we really appreciate. That's
at the beginning. That's something that we really wanted to
focus on is listening to the public and making sure
that we had an open ear for that tips and
leads and things like that. You know, people always ask
(08:32):
us where should I search, and unfortunately we cannot tell
you where to go search. It's a huge liability for
us to you know, if you we tell you to
go somewhere and you go fall off a cliff or
something that is we would feel terrible. Tips leads obviously
support for the show through our Patreon things like that. Obviously,
(08:54):
if you have any any kind of solid lead lead,
we would like you to go directly to the FBI.
They are listening, they are paying attention, and they're still
working the case. So that is that is huge, is
making sure that tips and leads get into the FBI
and get into law enforcement.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Another way to definitely help is to just make sure
you tell a friend that likes true crime or likes
adventure stories. The biggest thing that we want to convey
is that there are cases that have potentially been found
already that haven't made it to the FBI yet. So
we just want to make sure that if anybody has
found something like that that they will even if they
(09:31):
feel they have reported before, just double check. Call the FBI,
let them know your story, and give them the opportunity
to check it up for themselves, because it's it's definitely
likely that some have been found and just not connected yet.
We want other people's opinions. So if you have ideas,
like even though you know we might not be able
to move on it right away because we won't be
(09:53):
searched in the area, just sentence your ideas and we
can definitely talk through them and see what can come
of it. We know that people have experienced it all
over the place in all different avenues, and we just
want people with that experience to give us their opinion
so that way we were just better informed. So I
think that's a really good way for people to help
if they if they wanted to reach.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Out, and so just to follow up on that, for
those who might not be comfortable with reaching out to
law enforcement or the FBI, what would be the best
way for someone to contact you with a leader tip?
Speaker 2 (10:31):
I think the best right now is probably through email
somewhere in the pinespod at gmail dot com. That's that's
probably the best way at this point, and we can
get you connected directly to special religion hula. Yeah, I
think reach out, even if it's anonymous, or even if
you accidentally opened it because you didn't know about it
beforehand and potentially, you know, could have contaminated it. I
(10:53):
think at least like knowing the point where where it
was buried would just be so much more important because
it could lead to an area where he was you know,
he was hunting or searching for victims, an area where
he had already killed somebody, or it could lead to
something else that we just don't even have a clue
of yet. So I think just finding those little points
on the map is going to be the thing that
(11:13):
really helps move the case forward. So yeah, even if
you've opened it, please please let the FBI know.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
So what was it like talking with the FBI.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
I'm always nervous beforehand, and then once we're doing it,
I'm I'm dialed in and feel really good about it.
They are, you know, specifically, ted Halla is extremely engaged
in this and seems to completely welcome the help and
(11:47):
the resource. So that is super motivating apart from just
giving us, like you know, a good feeling and motivating us.
It makes it really seem like there could be some
success here. I think that every time we get communication,
you know, whether it's whether it's in person or on
(12:08):
the phone or through email, it's always just a huge motivator.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Yeah, I've been surprised at how just how forthcoming they've been,
but also just how positive they've been with the information
we have passed along to them. We didn't expect them
to take us seriously at all. We just thought it
would be fun to try to get some tips to
them and and just kind of see what they say
and see if, you know, we could talk them about
the case in any way possible. But you know, as
(12:35):
time has progressed, it seems like there is more. I mean,
we're not obviously not working together, it's not like that,
but the communication is very open and it feels like
they're very receptive to anything that we bring to them,
which I think is something I never really expected. And
we spoke with one person we reached out to was
(12:57):
Nick from True Crime Garage initially, and we were talking
with him recently and he had mentioned that in the
seven hundred cases that he has done, he's never had
anybody that has actually been like talking to the FBI
and working with them in the manner that we are,
and that was I think really shocking, I know to
me where I was, I just thought that what we
(13:19):
were doing was kind of the normal process. But now
it seems like it's actually a bigger deal than we
even expected. And people at the True Crime Fast Northwest Festival,
I talked to a few people that were saying the
same thing, just like totally surprised that there is actual
communication back and forth and we actually she's we actually
(13:39):
spoke with Julia from Julia Cawley from the Console the
other day, and you know, she's a retired FBI profiler
and even she was amazed that he was giving us
information like not, I don't know, It's kind of seems
a little surreal at times, but it's it's really really
odd and the the uh you could tell that, especially
(14:03):
in Halla, is just a very kind person and really
just wants to help find victims, you know. So it's
it's exciting to be able to talk to somebody like
him that isn't just there to tell a quick story
and then you know, have like a typical interview and
then move on, like he's actually interested in the back
and forth.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Yeah, not to guess you guys up or anything, but
the last episode was really amazing. I think it's episode five, correct, Yeah,
but just hearing Special Agent Halla be open and curious
with what you guys had was just really amazing to
(14:45):
listen to. So congratulations on that.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
Thank you. Why don't you why don't you want to
guess this up?
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Okay, I'll try so. Any future plans to meet with
Hala and if so, what do you think the next
conversations will be focused on.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Yeah, the last time we spoke, we had sent out
an email with a bunch of It was a follow
up email from our last interview and it included a
bunch of stuff that we had spoken about and wanted
to get to him with a few other editions as well.
And he came back, which we didn't think he We
didn't think he had the ability to do this. I
don't know why, but he came back with an email
(15:28):
that was just full of different responses, answering all the
questions that we had in the email, and left it
saying that he's excited for the next time, excited to
sit down with us again and paraphrasing there. So right now,
we're just we had a bunch of tips that we
haven't talked about yet with him, and a bunch of
other ideas they wanted to bring to him. And we've
(15:49):
also asked the research team from True Creme Bullshit and
Josh Hallmark to bring their ideas at the table too,
to make sure that we can get anything that's the
most important stuff into him first, so if it ever
does go away, at least they have all the information.
We have some back and forth before it does go away.
So yeah, right now, next date to sit down with
him is to be determined. We know that he has
(16:10):
a couple of cases that he was in court for
and he is very busy. I think we're just going
to wait until we have a complete plan in place,
send out another email with all of our information on it,
and then try to schedule other time to sit down
with them.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
So where have you searched?
Speaker 3 (16:29):
We try not to release too much ahead of the
episodes as far as you know, because people always ask
where where have you guys searched? So I don't search
the same spots, so we don't double up and save
time and things like that, and we try not to
release where we're going to be for our own safety.
We try not to release anything that hasn't been released
(16:54):
in the in the episodes yet.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
And I'd say we've probably of the peninsula. We've searched
nearly every area that we've identified throughout the season or
throughout the last three years that we've we thought would
be a good spot. We have we have roughly I
think two other areas that we want to look at.
Kind of talking with Peggy and a few other people,
we've identified a few other areas that they think is
(17:20):
they think there's a good chance there's something there and
or at least a good spot to search, and we're
going to try to search those areas as well. That's
probably about as much as we want to help. But
there is we can also say there's there are boats involved,
there are long bike rides, twenty mile bike rides involved,
lots of rain, and.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
New information is constantly coming in. We're getting lots of
new information from locals, from people who you know, such
as Peggy. She's third generation, third fourth generation, third generation, Yeah,
on the peninsula there, and so she knows the area
really well and she knows the case really well. And
(17:58):
so those are the kind of things that we really
pay attention to. So when we get that new information,
we take it very seriously and it just adds a
new location to the list.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Nice. So what would you say to people who want
to know if you want to collaborate with them?
Speaker 2 (18:14):
We got a lot of interest fall we're at the
festival of other people that wanted to interview us about
the show. A lot of other podcasts came through as well.
It's a really great like networking opportunity. A few of
the podcasts there, it seems like we have some really
good opportunities to do some fun episodes with them. And
then even outside of the festival, we've been emailing back
and forth with a few other shows like The Consult
(18:35):
True Crime Garage. We're doing an interview with them coming
up very shortly. And yeah, same with The Consult. We
have two episodes planned with them, which is really exciting
as well.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
That's awesome and so in kind of the same vein,
I think this is a great opportunity to name some
big shows that you would love to collaborate with, and
because I believe that ultimately the more we get you
out there, the more we'll get tips from the public.
(19:10):
So my question is, what are some of your favorite
true crime podcasts you want to go first?
Speaker 2 (19:16):
To go?
Speaker 3 (19:17):
I can go first. I mean the it's funny because
the list is like basically what we've been talking about.
I would say that obviously true crime bullshit is what
a big, a big thing that got me me personally
into this. And then I love the consult. I mean,
nothing really beats retired FBI agents talking about the cases
(19:40):
that they worked. I mean that is top notch to me.
And honestly, ever since I started doing this, I listened
to a lot of comedy podcasts on my off time, so.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Me too, Like I actually can't listen to too much
true crime, Like it's all comedy.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Yeah, Like, if Scott Ackerman would let me on comedy
Bang Bang, I would do that in her beat, but
I don't think that's ever gonna happen.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Yeah, me, personally, I absolutely love the consult. I feel
like I learned so much. It's really helped me. We
were actually just speaking with Julia the other day and
I was telling her about the how I never really
quite understood victimology as well as they did after listening
to her episodes it just put it in a different
(20:31):
perspective from me that I think it really helped explain
the importance of it, and I think that's helped us
just in our research to try to try to look
at the case from just every angle possible. I really
love the show in the Dark. I think it's just
absolutely fabulous Metaline Baron. She does an amazing job the
(20:51):
first two seasons. Like we listened to them again recently
the other day while at work. They're just so good
true crime garage, and we'll be doing a collaboration with
them already, which is very exciting. I feel like it's
just two buddies hanging out, telling stories, having a good time,
and it just reminds me of like all my friends
back in Northeast and Buffalo and stuff that I grew
(21:14):
up with, and just the weird jokes and conversations that
we would have. I really really love Murdering the Rain
because they're just funny as shit, and we spent time
with them at the last two podcast festivals and got
to meet them, and I just love they have a
very care free approach with just the way they present
information and they'll just break into song in the middle
(21:36):
of an episode or have some really great bloopers, and
you know they still take cases very seriously. At the
same time, it's just enjoyable to listen to because you
can tell how much fun they're having.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
Yeah, that is That is one that I can definitely
listen to in the off time because it's a good
fifteen to twenty percent comedy.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Stylistically, where do you draw inspiration from for your podcas Cast?
Speaker 2 (22:01):
I'd say big influences, Someone Knows Something, The Blair Witch Project.
Those are probably two. I know one's a podcast, one's
a movie, But I think the just the very rawness
of someone knows something and uh, you know David Ridge
and he really tells a story in such a laid
back manner and I think does a really good job
(22:24):
of kind of guiding people along with him and showing
him what he's doing as he's doing it. That I
really like. And I know Dakota likes that show as well.
We talked about that quite a bit. And the Blair
Witch Projects scariest movie you ever made?
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Alone? Yeah, yeah, alone on History Channel. That's a huge,
huge inspiration of just like the raw, the rawness of
the footage, the rawness of like the emotion in that show.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Oh my god, I love Alone. I'm so glad.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
It's so good. My wife falls asleep to it every night.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Are you watching the new season, Kim, not yet.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Not yet. But I was just actually quoting, or not quoting,
but referencing Alone. My friend sent me this wonderful article
about foraging and fall and it was talking about rose hips,
and I was I just remember there was an Alone
episode where somebody chomped down on a rose hip and
broke their tooth. It's like, yeah, that's all I can remember.
(23:29):
It's good. No, thank you both for answering that question,
because you know, your storytelling is really unique and interesting,
and you know it's it's different than a lot of
the other true crime podcasts out there, and so it
was just nice to hear kind of where you draw
some inspiration from what has been the biggest challenge so
(23:53):
far in this project, and to sort of counterbalance that.
The most exciting part so five.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
The first.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
I mean, as far as the most exciting part, I mean,
I mean speaking to the FBI, I just it's it's
something that we're not law enforcement, we're not journalists, we're
you know, kind of nobody's from nowhere, and I think
that that's just really was a huge, a huge boost
(24:24):
in our confidence and and especially like the research that
we're doing and the tips that we're bringing to the
FBI that that they see value in them. That's extremely exciting.
And uh, I think that going to going to new locations,
going places I've never been. I love camping, I love
the outdoors, so seeing these beautiful places is uh is
(24:47):
a big bonus for me. And then I think that
you know, as far as the hardships of it, obviously
financial family, We and quite a bit of money, so
that's a huge hurdle that we have to constantly be
thinking about and how to navigate that.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
I would agree with all the challenges that the CODA
has talked about right there, especially time time management has
been probably the hardest thing, just with already having full
time jobs and still trying to you know, do research
until midnight, one two o'clock in the morning most nights.
You know, it's just and it's not it's not a
bad thing, it's it's we want to do that. It's
(25:32):
it's exciting and fun, but it's also challenging to be
able to do anything else beyond that. But I think
the exciting part for me teaming up with studio both
and and True Crime Bullshit and you guys and researchers.
You know, it's something we had hoped for when I
first started this, to have some sort of a collaboration
to be a companion piece to True Crime Bullshit. But
it was something that you know, who thinks, oh, I'm
(25:55):
just gonna email this podcaster and say we're doing this
thing and we want to work with you, and they're
going to accept it. It just doesn't seem like it's not.
It's something that we weren't really expecting to happen, but
we wanted to happen. And I think it's just opened
up possibilities so much just having other people to talk
to about the case that know the case well and
(26:16):
have their own opinions because they can back it up
with different bits of research that they've done. So I mean,
I think that is really exciting. The last thing, it's
also probably a number one for us, is just getting
the emails back from Ted Halla. We got this one
back that I asked my wife to frame for me
for my birthday because it was the coolest thing ever
(26:38):
to have the FBI say like this is a great
document or I love the outside of the box thinking
because we're definitely you know, we haven't released an this
information yet in the podcast, but we're bringing some pretty
new ideas to the table that we're really excited to bring.
And just having them having, specially as in Halla, say
something like that, I think is not something that we
(27:01):
ever expected. It is really really exciting.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Yeah, that's uh, that would be amazing. And I just
want to acknowledge, like, I think maybe listeners don't understand that, uh,
you know, you both are working full time, you both
have families, that you both have partners that you are
you know, you are taking time away from for this research.
(27:28):
And I think it's important for listeners to understand that
because I think there's an idea that like, oh, you
guys just do this. You're independently wealthy, like you just
do this for fun whatever. But yeah, it is a
lot of energy and a lot of resource to devote
your time to this research.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
I think that after this podcast will be independently poor.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
But Kim, you're in the same boat because you're doing
the researching, you've got family.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Yeah, but I'm not creating like you guys, are you
know I mean, I think that that is a different
beast the amount of Like again, why I love to
be in the background is because I can just be like, okay,
well you know bye where you know what the amount
of energy it takes to promote I mean, like your website,
(28:20):
your your social media, your the creation of the show
is that's labor. And I think you should be proud
of what you've created with the minimal resources and time
and be able to speak about like a bit of
the hardship of that too. So thank you for sharing.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Yeah. Can I ask though, for you, what's what challenges
have ever been for you? And the same thing, like,
what's been the most exciting part for you so far?
Speaker 1 (28:53):
So far? I mean, you know, again, having started research
four years ago, it has been like, you know, weaseling
my way into true crying bullshit and being able to
exchange my ideas and research with other people who are
(29:14):
interested in this subject. I love changing methodologies. I love, like,
you know, starting off being really interested in data breaches
and all of that stuff and transitioning to collecting tips
that wouldn't normally go to the FBI. And you know,
(29:38):
I'm curious to see what comes next. For a time,
it was just about how much data can I pull
from the Internet. And it wasn't so much about really
sitting down and dissecting it too much, but it was like,
can I see your sense patterns in this data? People
(29:59):
try to insert themselves into the keys narrative. People run
across creeps all the time and they're like, well, it's
the keys And then like there were there's tips that
are legitimate, and it's really you know, about seeing the
patterns to sort of sift through that.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
What was it like for you to finally join the
true quam bullshit team.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
It was really exciting. I had been contributing for a while,
and they have different sort of communication platforms. For a
while it was like Slack and then it moved to
another platform, and just you know, each researcher has such
a unique perspective that like and and also like interests.
(30:47):
You know, we all have different sort of interest in
the case, and and to be able to sort of
pull from all of that was really powerful. And I
know that you know, you both are so busy, I
doubt that you'd have time to really sit with what
has been presented in Slack or the other platform, but
(31:08):
it's just a resource of people's energy and time devoted
to this case, and I think each of the researchers
have I mean, I am obsessed with Shane's calendar. I
don't know if you guys have a copy of that yet,
but it just we do, Okay, Yeah, I just you know,
I have my own little weird map that I love,
(31:30):
but I'm always going back to Shane's calendar just because
you can see things in a different way versus you know,
place versus time. It's just a different experience and so
I value that a lot.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
One more exciting thing was finding out that everybody from
the team is actually really cool. I mean, you have
no idea what you're walking into from the outside looking in,
you know, and if you look at Reddit, Josh is
apparently like the worst person on earth, and you know, like, I.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Don't ever look at redit, don't look at it.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Yeah, I feel so bad because yeah, it's just such
some of it is so so upsetting to see, and
you know, he's in a position and we're in a
position now where you know, you can't really interact with
that to try to explain yourself because it's just going
to fall on deaf ears.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
But make it worse.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Yeah. But but going to Denver and meeting him and
meeting Kaz, I just was blown away by how much
of a good time we had and how it just
felt very natural. They were both so nice. I mean
we were there was a lot of after hours partying
and the majority of the time, you know, I think
(32:46):
I sat with Kaz for maybe four hours the one
day in the bar, just talking about different ideas, and
I just to me, that was just a really good
thing that it happened, that these guys are awesome and
it's going to be a good working relationship and just
kind of settle any nerves of walking into something that
you know, could have been completely opposite. You know, we
(33:07):
have we had no idea, so it really worked out.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
I think, Well, I think it's the same idea of
listeners thinking that oh, you're you're doing this thing, you
must be independently wealthyer or have a background in law
enforcement or journalism or something. It's like, we're all just
normal people, you know, and you don't really see that
through the podcast obviously, but you know, we're all just
doing our best to achieve the same goal.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
All the research that we met so far with you know, Jordan, Shana,
Michelle Tucker, like even just like over just through through
the online platforms, Like everybody's very receptive, very encouraging, and
it's just nice that it seems like Josh has been
able to really build a team of really this kind
people with all the same goal in mind. It's awesome,
(33:56):
awesome to see behind the scenes.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
So can you explain the different types of cash is?
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Of course, originally when we first got into this, we
were looking directly into the kill kits. And one thing
that we noticed throughout our research is that not every
every cash has weaponry or ammunition in it, and that
different cases will be used for different things. And the
(34:27):
first one that jumped out is the disposal kit. And
so the disposal kit is very different from a kill kit,
and so that was right there. We're like, okay, there's
two different kinds of cashes. Here. We have a kit
that's meant to abduct and assault somebody, and we have
a kit that's meant to dispose of somebody. When we
(34:49):
heard him speak of Eagle River, Alaska cash, there was
another cash. There was a tool cash that he had
a cash with a battery grinder in it, and of
course then there's the bank robberies, and so he has
money caches, he has cashes that are meant just to
(35:09):
store money, and then you know, so it just kept
spiraling into a bigger and bigger thing of like, Okay,
there's there's way more than the one cash type of
cash or the two types of cases, and that just
made us really analyze his description of these cases and
(35:30):
what they were used for, and it was you know,
if you've spent hours and hours going over the interrogations,
I think that it's it's obvious that he's using these
for different things.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
And they seem like they're very similar, and they are.
They all do accomplish the same goal of helping them
commit a crime, so you could say it's all the same.
But you know, the just the Eagle River disposal cash
being in a spot completely different from where he planned
to do the reduction in the act, and he actually
had a kill kit station behind the pit toilet. They're
(36:05):
ready for him, so already showing that they are separate.
It just it helps you understand like the pattern of
his crime, or helps us understand the pattern of his crime.
Like the money cash that Dakota talked about you know,
a lot of this, a lot of these ideas. You know,
there's some speculation involved. But like the money cash, we
know that he buried money by the airport in Houston,
(36:27):
and you know that could just be a one off,
but it could potentially lead to something where maybe that's
what he does, is he just if he does rub
a bank, then he plans all the money closer to
the next airport or maybe plants it close to where
his family lives, and every time he flies in, he
goes and grabs the money and is able to take
it somewhere else. We think there's potential for a souvenir
(36:49):
cash and you know this is just based off of
certain things that he says, like he would he sometimes
would never go back to them and if he did,
he would only go to see if they are still there.
So just basically possessing these cases and that could be
you know, just guns that he stole from committing a burglary.
The fact that he could have some of these items
(37:11):
closer to maybe where he did kill somebody, as like
a souvenir or basically something just to hold all those
souvenirs that he can just possess and not dig up
to like get guns out or anything like that, to
always go back to just know that it's there and
know that it's his and he knows that nobody else
knows it's there. And then the last one would be
the home base cash. And we got this from a
(37:32):
very specific quote that he said in one of the interviews.
We won't release that right now, but he made us
think that he had a cash near Ania Bay, and
we kind of talked a little bit about this with
specially Tahuala. I think we released some of that audio already,
but there will be more coming up soon. Basically, the way,
it seems as though there's an opportunity for him to
(37:53):
have a larger stash of weapons or a larger stash
of materials that he would eventually go back to and
then disperse it to other cases throughout the country. And
this could be, you know, in his home and maybe
it's not considered a cash then it's just guns that
he has, but if it's any gun that was stolen
or that he purchased for the future use in rhyme,
it seems likely that it would have it closer to
(38:15):
his home, so we can always go back, dig it up,
work on it, oil it, maintain it, and make sure
that it's it's good to use until he is able
to go and place in another cash. So that's kind
of where that idea came from. Again, same thing. Speculation
on that based off of just some things that he's said.
But we will get into that when we get to it.
But we've had a lot of people ask us about that.
I think it's good to kind of clarify. We tried
(38:37):
to clarify it.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
Well.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Hopefully as we proceed throughout the rest of the episodes,
we can really help define those a little bit better
and make it a little bit more obvious to what
we're what we're shooting for.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Funny and you guys said you liked gas. I'm just
going to say in the last episode, it was just
really endearing to hear Special Agent Haul I'd be like,
you know, I haven't really I don't really look to
the to the different types of cash. Is like all right, okay,
Like you know, it was, Yeah, it was really neat
(39:06):
to hear him kind of be like, huh.
Speaker 3 (39:09):
All right, you know, I don't I don't think that
we're doing anything spectacular that the FBI like hasn't thought
of or anything. I think that they have protocols and
and things like that in place, you know, but there's
been a few things. Josh Josh made some simple but
(39:31):
important corrections in the case file for them, which I
thought was pretty amazing. And then like we talked about
the t k T being spray painted on the road,
it's definitely you know, exciting and motivating to bring bringing
new information that maybe has been kind of glossed over
(39:51):
and could be important.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
I'm glad you said that, because it's that's kind of
how it's how it's been with us where we've never
heard I can either confirm or deny that or you know,
I'm not delivery to say nothing, none of that kind
of stuff. It's always either I don't know, I'll look
into it. Like he's just very open to usd about
it and is not trying to He doesn't try to
(40:16):
act like he knows everything. And it seems pretty obvious that,
you know, they spend the resources on trying to find
the victims and not spend a lot of time on
the cash is right now. It makes it very comfortable
for us.
Speaker 3 (40:28):
I feel like they are extremely motivated you know, and
they want the same thing we want, so.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
Absolutely, so have you found a cash?
Speaker 3 (40:41):
I can't tell you.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
That is that is the appropriate response. Keep listening right,
yeah to the episode.
Speaker 3 (40:52):
Join the Patreon we will.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
You know, when I read online, if they had found
a cash, we would have already known about. It would
be in the news. So it's kind of sad that
it's devolved into like just hate instead of you know,
people who are interested in the case, who want to
(41:14):
find stuff. Like you know, I think there was a
time and place when if you went online, people would
be like curious and open and all of that stuff.
And now it's like, I don't know if it's like
a I don't know what it is. I think I
think it's the natural progression of becoming popular and and
I think some of the moderators have said, you know
(41:36):
that they've been in other communities where like this has
happened as well. But it's just it's unfortunate because it
would be awesome if these people like devoted energy and
time to actually finding stuff instead of talking about how
everyone sucks.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
Yeah. Yeah, I mean that's not going to get us
any further.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
As part of it, that's almost a little endearing to
me because it's they still keep coming back and listening,
and I think it's like the same way, you know,
like I've been the same way with other podcasts where
I've heard something that was, you know, you just want
more out of you want more information, You're like hungry
for something, and I think these people do, like they
(42:16):
do want a cash to be found. They do want
to be to be found, you know. And it's just
that sometimes can be difficult to take in whenever you're
just sitting back and listening, especially if you feel like,
you know, if we are holding back information or something
like that. And I think that's even the comment, you know,
if they would have if they found something, it would
have already you know, been released, And I think that
(42:38):
is a very intelligent way of looking at it. And
you know what, it can be hard, but I still
think there's like an endearing part of it where they
really do just want information as well.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
You have a generous part Josh.
Speaker 3 (42:55):
For punishment, Yeah so much.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
I mean I don't like reading it, but yeah, I
still feel like there's some intention there. They do want answers,
and I can empathize with that for sure.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
Yeah, but yeah, I'll shoot you guys a lark message
about potential time for another meetup.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
Okay, and thank you. Thank you for doing this. Kim, Yeah,
super last minute and it was awesome.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
So and Dakota, you promised to edit out all the
dumb parts that I do.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
It's gonna be I'm just going to edit myself out of.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
All right. Well, thank you to you both. Have a
good evening you too.
Speaker 3 (43:35):
What's not to say? Thank you so much?
Speaker 1 (43:37):
All right, bye, bye bye.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
Thanks for listening to this episode of Somewhere the Pines,
and thanks for all the five star reviews and for
telling your friends. We'd also like to give a very
special thank you to our Patreon producers, Heather Horton, Whedon,
Nicole Gooseman, Colleen Sullivan, Linley Twoshoff, utter Man, and kJ
have a good night.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
Can you all hear me?
Speaker 2 (44:14):
I can. How's it going good.
Speaker 1 (44:17):
I'm using a new headset, so tell me if you
hear like me snorting or heavy breathing or something. You
don't know. I'm not sure what it's going to capture.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
Do you snort a lot when you're talking?
Speaker 1 (44:28):
We'll see
This is a studio both and collaboration.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Hey everyone, welcome to Somewhere in the Pines. This is Joshua.
Last week we were lucky enough to attend True Crime
Fest Northwest and Portland, Oregon. We noticed that we were
getting asked a lot of the same questions, so we
thought it might be a good idea to sit down
and go through the most commonly asked questions with you.
We were joined by Kim Kay, a researcher from True
Crime Bullshit, who will lead the conversation.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Enjoy I just wanted to start off by thanking you both.
You know, I'm kind of a background girl and I
don't really like to be in the mix of everything,
but I really value your consent and collaboration. Those are
my research love languages. So I just wanted to make
(01:18):
that clear that I really appreciate how you are approaching
me and research collaboration in general. Like I know you
speak highly of other partners like Peggy and Hayden, and
that's just a testament to your guys's character, so I
really appreciate it. But I've been researching this case since
(01:41):
listening to True Crime Bullshit since twenty twenty, and I
began providing research to the team in twenty twenty two,
and I officially adjoined them this January. And it's been
a fun experience to hone these various skills and methodologies,
but especially in such a niche subject. You know, it's
(02:03):
really it's really you guys are lucky because you have
each other to kind of bounce ideas off of. Like
here I am in sort of a satellite world, trying
to like find people to communicate with on the research
that I'm doing. So and as I've said before, my
husband is really enjoys that you guys get to hear
(02:24):
all of this now, So yeah, you're doing him a
good service. So so what is this? Is this a
treasure hunt? Is uh? You guys just running around in
the woods. What is this?
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Yeah? We got asked that quite a bit this weekend.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Yeah, we got we got this question quite a bit
from people that have obviously never heard of us. Like
you said, it's a very niche topic, and so even
big true crime fans don't always know what we're talking about.
I always start by saying, it's kind of a it's
a true crime adventure. Sure, you know, we're out in
the field looking for leads and tips, and you know,
(03:06):
talking with the public and talking with law enforcement. We
have to of course explain the caches and what those
are and what those were used for, and so it
kind of turns into a long story. But basically we
think that we can connect missing persons to israel Keys
(03:27):
through the caches, and so that's our main focus and
our main objective.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Yeah, I just I spoke with a girlfriend who I
hadn't seen for a while, just this last weekend, and
trying to describe what we do. Just for a moment,
you're like, do I sound crazy? Well, my friend look
at me a little different after. But honestly, like every
time I've ever talked to anybody about the research, they're
(03:57):
really excited.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
I think probably a good thing that a lot of
people have already heard true kind bullshit, so they were
able to really understand what we're doing is a bit
of a companion piece to what they're doing, and just
I think people hearing that we're collaborating with them, I
think was also really exciting for people that haven't yet
heard of our podcasts, just to know that there's more
(04:20):
progress and the fact that we're teaming up and trying
to advance the case together, is I think exciting to
a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
We always get kind of the same reaction when we
tell them that we're looking for the cash. Is they're
just like, yes, yes, Like that's what I've been asking for,
That's what I've been hoping for. And so that's very
motivating and feels good too, because that's how we felt,
is you know, like someone's got to go look for
these things. We feel it's the most tangible way to
(04:51):
connect more evidence to the case.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Yeah, just to follow up on that, I remember hearing
about you guys a while back and thinking, how the
hell are they going to do it? Right? Like, I
think that that's probably a question that a lot of people,
you know, they just picture two guys wandering the woods
and with the metal detector hoping to stumble upon something.
(05:15):
But after hearing about your methodology and attention to like
the facts and details it, it became evident to me
at least that you know, you have a really good
chance to find something.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
So, you know, some people made it seem as though
it was really just going to be us just walking
around the woods and nothing that will never find anything,
and nothing of importance will overcome of this. So it's
exciting for somebody like you to hear it and get
encouraged and feel that there's actually more chance of success
than originally I thought.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
So thank you for that. Quite a bit of research
that goes into this. It's not you know, and I
don't think that I imagine that if I would have heard
a podcast like this, I maybe would have had the
same thoughts of like, oh, they're just going to wander
around and what do they think they're going to accomplish.
But years of research has gone into this, and you know,
(06:13):
like you say, the methodology of it is calculated and meaningful,
and we you know, really try to pay attention to
the case file, on the facts and let that kind
of lead our way rather than just a wild goose chase.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
How did you get into searching for the Cashes?
Speaker 2 (06:35):
I think we first heard about Israel Keys through True Kreme.
Well actually it wasn't Truekrem bullshit. It was Josh Hallmark
was on another show, The Missing Brandon Maitland, and he
was discussing just the Keys in general with the host there.
You know, we just discussed we've been talking about doing
a project together. We had a few different ideas, but
the fact that you know, I'm from New York, live
(06:57):
in Oregon, Dakota has been Deco, grew up in Alaska
and lived in Washington for a while. The fact that
we kind of knew all of these areas pretty well,
and you know, we spend most of the time in
the woods. Anyways, we just thought it might be a
good opportunity. Like we just felt we had like a
leg up by being so familiar with the areas to
begin with, so we thought, why not give it a try.
(07:18):
And it's such an addictive topic and story that it
was pretty easy to get really invested in it right away.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Yeah, I think that that is you know, kind of
the key element to the Keys case that really draws
people in is that he was everywhere in the US,
it seems like at some point and just sort of
that that really resonates with a lot of listeners and
a lot of a lot of people who are getting
(07:50):
into true crime and wanting to, like, you know, do
research or read up like Keys. Is that that figure
that you can kind of see almost anywhere. So how
can listeners help?
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Yeah, we do get a lot of inquiries about helping
hands and things like that, which we really appreciate. That's
at the beginning. That's something that we really wanted to
focus on is listening to the public and making sure
that we had an open ear for that tips and
leads and things like that. You know, people always ask
(08:32):
us where should I search, and unfortunately we cannot tell
you where to go search. It's a huge liability for
us to you know, if you we tell you to
go somewhere and you go fall off a cliff or
something that is we would feel terrible. Tips leads obviously
support for the show through our Patreon things like that. Obviously,
(08:54):
if you have any any kind of solid lead lead,
we would like you to go directly to the FBI.
They are listening, they are paying attention, and they're still
working the case. So that is that is huge, is
making sure that tips and leads get into the FBI
and get into law enforcement.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Another way to definitely help is to just make sure
you tell a friend that likes true crime or likes
adventure stories. The biggest thing that we want to convey
is that there are cases that have potentially been found
already that haven't made it to the FBI yet. So
we just want to make sure that if anybody has
found something like that that they will even if they
(09:31):
feel they have reported before, just double check. Call the FBI,
let them know your story, and give them the opportunity
to check it up for themselves, because it's it's definitely
likely that some have been found and just not connected yet.
We want other people's opinions. So if you have ideas,
like even though you know we might not be able
to move on it right away because we won't be
(09:53):
searched in the area, just sentence your ideas and we
can definitely talk through them and see what can come
of it. We know that people have experienced it all
over the place in all different avenues, and we just
want people with that experience to give us their opinion
so that way we were just better informed. So I
think that's a really good way for people to help
if they if they wanted to reach.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Out, and so just to follow up on that, for
those who might not be comfortable with reaching out to
law enforcement or the FBI, what would be the best
way for someone to contact you with a leader tip?
Speaker 2 (10:31):
I think the best right now is probably through email
somewhere in the pinespod at gmail dot com. That's that's
probably the best way at this point, and we can
get you connected directly to special religion hula. Yeah, I
think reach out, even if it's anonymous, or even if
you accidentally opened it because you didn't know about it
beforehand and potentially, you know, could have contaminated it. I
(10:53):
think at least like knowing the point where where it
was buried would just be so much more important because
it could lead to an area where he was you know,
he was hunting or searching for victims, an area where
he had already killed somebody, or it could lead to
something else that we just don't even have a clue
of yet. So I think just finding those little points
on the map is going to be the thing that
(11:13):
really helps move the case forward. So yeah, even if
you've opened it, please please let the FBI know.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
So what was it like talking with the FBI.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
I'm always nervous beforehand, and then once we're doing it,
I'm I'm dialed in and feel really good about it.
They are, you know, specifically, ted Halla is extremely engaged
in this and seems to completely welcome the help and
(11:47):
the resource. So that is super motivating apart from just
giving us, like you know, a good feeling and motivating us.
It makes it really seem like there could be some
success here. I think that every time we get communication,
you know, whether it's whether it's in person or on
(12:08):
the phone or through email, it's always just a huge motivator.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Yeah, I've been surprised at how just how forthcoming they've been,
but also just how positive they've been with the information
we have passed along to them. We didn't expect them
to take us seriously at all. We just thought it
would be fun to try to get some tips to
them and and just kind of see what they say
and see if, you know, we could talk them about
the case in any way possible. But you know, as
(12:35):
time has progressed, it seems like there is more. I mean,
we're not obviously not working together, it's not like that,
but the communication is very open and it feels like
they're very receptive to anything that we bring to them,
which I think is something I never really expected. And
we spoke with one person we reached out to was
(12:57):
Nick from True Crime Garage initially, and we were talking
with him recently and he had mentioned that in the
seven hundred cases that he has done, he's never had
anybody that has actually been like talking to the FBI
and working with them in the manner that we are,
and that was I think really shocking, I know to
me where I was, I just thought that what we
(13:19):
were doing was kind of the normal process. But now
it seems like it's actually a bigger deal than we
even expected. And people at the True Crime Fast Northwest Festival,
I talked to a few people that were saying the
same thing, just like totally surprised that there is actual
communication back and forth and we actually she's we actually
(13:39):
spoke with Julia from Julia Cawley from the Console the
other day, and you know, she's a retired FBI profiler
and even she was amazed that he was giving us
information like not, I don't know, It's kind of seems
a little surreal at times, but it's it's really really
odd and the the uh you could tell that, especially
(14:03):
in Halla, is just a very kind person and really
just wants to help find victims, you know. So it's
it's exciting to be able to talk to somebody like
him that isn't just there to tell a quick story
and then you know, have like a typical interview and
then move on, like he's actually interested in the back
and forth.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Yeah, not to guess you guys up or anything, but
the last episode was really amazing. I think it's episode five, correct, Yeah,
but just hearing Special Agent Halla be open and curious
with what you guys had was just really amazing to
(14:45):
listen to. So congratulations on that.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
Thank you. Why don't you why don't you want to
guess this up?
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Okay, I'll try so. Any future plans to meet with
Hala and if so, what do you think the next
conversations will be focused on.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Yeah, the last time we spoke, we had sent out
an email with a bunch of It was a follow
up email from our last interview and it included a
bunch of stuff that we had spoken about and wanted
to get to him with a few other editions as well.
And he came back, which we didn't think he We
didn't think he had the ability to do this. I
don't know why, but he came back with an email
(15:28):
that was just full of different responses, answering all the
questions that we had in the email, and left it
saying that he's excited for the next time, excited to
sit down with us again and paraphrasing there. So right now,
we're just we had a bunch of tips that we
haven't talked about yet with him, and a bunch of
other ideas they wanted to bring to him. And we've
(15:49):
also asked the research team from True Creme Bullshit and
Josh Hallmark to bring their ideas at the table too,
to make sure that we can get anything that's the
most important stuff into him first, so if it ever
does go away, at least they have all the information.
We have some back and forth before it does go away.
So yeah, right now, next date to sit down with
him is to be determined. We know that he has
(16:10):
a couple of cases that he was in court for
and he is very busy. I think we're just going
to wait until we have a complete plan in place,
send out another email with all of our information on it,
and then try to schedule other time to sit down
with them.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
So where have you searched?
Speaker 3 (16:29):
We try not to release too much ahead of the
episodes as far as you know, because people always ask
where where have you guys searched? So I don't search
the same spots, so we don't double up and save
time and things like that, and we try not to
release where we're going to be for our own safety.
We try not to release anything that hasn't been released
(16:54):
in the in the episodes yet.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
And I'd say we've probably of the peninsula. We've searched
nearly every area that we've identified throughout the season or
throughout the last three years that we've we thought would
be a good spot. We have we have roughly I
think two other areas that we want to look at.
Kind of talking with Peggy and a few other people,
we've identified a few other areas that they think is
(17:20):
they think there's a good chance there's something there and
or at least a good spot to search, and we're
going to try to search those areas as well. That's
probably about as much as we want to help. But
there is we can also say there's there are boats involved,
there are long bike rides, twenty mile bike rides involved,
lots of rain, and.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
New information is constantly coming in. We're getting lots of
new information from locals, from people who you know, such
as Peggy. She's third generation, third fourth generation, third generation, Yeah,
on the peninsula there, and so she knows the area
really well and she knows the case really well. And
(17:58):
so those are the kind of things that we really
pay attention to. So when we get that new information,
we take it very seriously and it just adds a
new location to the list.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Nice. So what would you say to people who want
to know if you want to collaborate with them?
Speaker 2 (18:14):
We got a lot of interest fall we're at the
festival of other people that wanted to interview us about
the show. A lot of other podcasts came through as well.
It's a really great like networking opportunity. A few of
the podcasts there, it seems like we have some really
good opportunities to do some fun episodes with them. And
then even outside of the festival, we've been emailing back
and forth with a few other shows like The Consult
(18:35):
True Crime Garage. We're doing an interview with them coming
up very shortly. And yeah, same with The Consult. We
have two episodes planned with them, which is really exciting
as well.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
That's awesome and so in kind of the same vein,
I think this is a great opportunity to name some
big shows that you would love to collaborate with, and
because I believe that ultimately the more we get you
out there, the more we'll get tips from the public.
(19:10):
So my question is, what are some of your favorite
true crime podcasts you want to go first?
Speaker 2 (19:16):
To go?
Speaker 3 (19:17):
I can go first. I mean the it's funny because
the list is like basically what we've been talking about.
I would say that obviously true crime bullshit is what
a big, a big thing that got me me personally
into this. And then I love the consult. I mean,
nothing really beats retired FBI agents talking about the cases
(19:40):
that they worked. I mean that is top notch to me.
And honestly, ever since I started doing this, I listened
to a lot of comedy podcasts on my off time, so.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Me too, Like I actually can't listen to too much
true crime, Like it's all comedy.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Yeah, Like, if Scott Ackerman would let me on comedy
Bang Bang, I would do that in her beat, but
I don't think that's ever gonna happen.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Yeah, me, personally, I absolutely love the consult. I feel
like I learned so much. It's really helped me. We
were actually just speaking with Julia the other day and
I was telling her about the how I never really
quite understood victimology as well as they did after listening
to her episodes it just put it in a different
(20:31):
perspective from me that I think it really helped explain
the importance of it, and I think that's helped us
just in our research to try to try to look
at the case from just every angle possible. I really
love the show in the Dark. I think it's just
absolutely fabulous Metaline Baron. She does an amazing job the
(20:51):
first two seasons. Like we listened to them again recently
the other day while at work. They're just so good
true crime garage, and we'll be doing a collaboration with
them already, which is very exciting. I feel like it's
just two buddies hanging out, telling stories, having a good time,
and it just reminds me of like all my friends
back in Northeast and Buffalo and stuff that I grew
(21:14):
up with, and just the weird jokes and conversations that
we would have. I really really love Murdering the Rain
because they're just funny as shit, and we spent time
with them at the last two podcast festivals and got
to meet them, and I just love they have a
very care free approach with just the way they present
information and they'll just break into song in the middle
(21:36):
of an episode or have some really great bloopers, and
you know they still take cases very seriously. At the
same time, it's just enjoyable to listen to because you
can tell how much fun they're having.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
Yeah, that is That is one that I can definitely
listen to in the off time because it's a good
fifteen to twenty percent comedy.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Stylistically, where do you draw inspiration from for your podcas Cast?
Speaker 2 (22:01):
I'd say big influences, Someone Knows Something, The Blair Witch Project.
Those are probably two. I know one's a podcast, one's
a movie, But I think the just the very rawness
of someone knows something and uh, you know David Ridge
and he really tells a story in such a laid
back manner and I think does a really good job
(22:24):
of kind of guiding people along with him and showing
him what he's doing as he's doing it. That I
really like. And I know Dakota likes that show as well.
We talked about that quite a bit. And the Blair
Witch Projects scariest movie you ever made?
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Alone? Yeah, yeah, alone on History Channel. That's a huge,
huge inspiration of just like the raw, the rawness of
the footage, the rawness of like the emotion in that show.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Oh my god, I love Alone. I'm so glad.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
It's so good. My wife falls asleep to it every night.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Are you watching the new season, Kim, not yet.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Not yet. But I was just actually quoting, or not quoting,
but referencing Alone. My friend sent me this wonderful article
about foraging and fall and it was talking about rose hips,
and I was I just remember there was an Alone
episode where somebody chomped down on a rose hip and
broke their tooth. It's like, yeah, that's all I can remember.
(23:29):
It's good. No, thank you both for answering that question,
because you know, your storytelling is really unique and interesting,
and you know it's it's different than a lot of
the other true crime podcasts out there, and so it
was just nice to hear kind of where you draw
some inspiration from what has been the biggest challenge so
(23:53):
far in this project, and to sort of counterbalance that.
The most exciting part so five.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
The first.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
I mean, as far as the most exciting part, I mean,
I mean speaking to the FBI, I just it's it's
something that we're not law enforcement, we're not journalists, we're
you know, kind of nobody's from nowhere, and I think
that that's just really was a huge, a huge boost
(24:24):
in our confidence and and especially like the research that
we're doing and the tips that we're bringing to the
FBI that that they see value in them. That's extremely exciting.
And uh, I think that going to going to new locations,
going places I've never been. I love camping, I love
the outdoors, so seeing these beautiful places is uh is
(24:47):
a big bonus for me. And then I think that
you know, as far as the hardships of it, obviously
financial family, We and quite a bit of money, so
that's a huge hurdle that we have to constantly be
thinking about and how to navigate that.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
I would agree with all the challenges that the CODA
has talked about right there, especially time time management has
been probably the hardest thing, just with already having full
time jobs and still trying to you know, do research
until midnight, one two o'clock in the morning most nights.
You know, it's just and it's not it's not a
bad thing, it's it's we want to do that. It's
(25:32):
it's exciting and fun, but it's also challenging to be
able to do anything else beyond that. But I think
the exciting part for me teaming up with studio both
and and True Crime Bullshit and you guys and researchers.
You know, it's something we had hoped for when I
first started this, to have some sort of a collaboration
to be a companion piece to True Crime Bullshit. But
it was something that you know, who thinks, oh, I'm
(25:55):
just gonna email this podcaster and say we're doing this
thing and we want to work with you, and they're
going to accept it. It just doesn't seem like it's not.
It's something that we weren't really expecting to happen, but
we wanted to happen. And I think it's just opened
up possibilities so much just having other people to talk
to about the case that know the case well and
(26:16):
have their own opinions because they can back it up
with different bits of research that they've done. So I mean,
I think that is really exciting. The last thing, it's
also probably a number one for us, is just getting
the emails back from Ted Halla. We got this one
back that I asked my wife to frame for me
for my birthday because it was the coolest thing ever
(26:38):
to have the FBI say like this is a great
document or I love the outside of the box thinking
because we're definitely you know, we haven't released an this
information yet in the podcast, but we're bringing some pretty
new ideas to the table that we're really excited to bring.
And just having them having, specially as in Halla, say
something like that, I think is not something that we
(27:01):
ever expected. It is really really exciting.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Yeah, that's uh, that would be amazing. And I just
want to acknowledge, like, I think maybe listeners don't understand that, uh,
you know, you both are working full time, you both
have families, that you both have partners that you are
you know, you are taking time away from for this research.
(27:28):
And I think it's important for listeners to understand that
because I think there's an idea that like, oh, you
guys just do this. You're independently wealthy, like you just
do this for fun whatever. But yeah, it is a
lot of energy and a lot of resource to devote
your time to this research.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
I think that after this podcast will be independently poor.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
But Kim, you're in the same boat because you're doing
the researching, you've got family.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Yeah, but I'm not creating like you guys, are you
know I mean, I think that that is a different
beast the amount of Like again, why I love to
be in the background is because I can just be like, okay,
well you know bye where you know what the amount
of energy it takes to promote I mean, like your website,
(28:20):
your your social media, your the creation of the show
is that's labor. And I think you should be proud
of what you've created with the minimal resources and time
and be able to speak about like a bit of
the hardship of that too. So thank you for sharing.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Yeah. Can I ask though, for you, what's what challenges
have ever been for you? And the same thing, like,
what's been the most exciting part for you so far?
Speaker 1 (28:53):
So far? I mean, you know, again, having started research
four years ago, it has been like, you know, weaseling
my way into true crying bullshit and being able to
exchange my ideas and research with other people who are
(29:14):
interested in this subject. I love changing methodologies. I love, like,
you know, starting off being really interested in data breaches
and all of that stuff and transitioning to collecting tips
that wouldn't normally go to the FBI. And you know,
(29:38):
I'm curious to see what comes next. For a time,
it was just about how much data can I pull
from the Internet. And it wasn't so much about really
sitting down and dissecting it too much, but it was like,
can I see your sense patterns in this data? People
(29:59):
try to insert themselves into the keys narrative. People run
across creeps all the time and they're like, well, it's
the keys And then like there were there's tips that
are legitimate, and it's really you know, about seeing the
patterns to sort of sift through that.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
What was it like for you to finally join the
true quam bullshit team.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
It was really exciting. I had been contributing for a while,
and they have different sort of communication platforms. For a
while it was like Slack and then it moved to
another platform, and just you know, each researcher has such
a unique perspective that like and and also like interests.
(30:47):
You know, we all have different sort of interest in
the case, and and to be able to sort of
pull from all of that was really powerful. And I
know that you know, you both are so busy, I
doubt that you'd have time to really sit with what
has been presented in Slack or the other platform, but
(31:08):
it's just a resource of people's energy and time devoted
to this case, and I think each of the researchers
have I mean, I am obsessed with Shane's calendar. I
don't know if you guys have a copy of that yet,
but it just we do, Okay, Yeah, I just you know,
I have my own little weird map that I love,
(31:30):
but I'm always going back to Shane's calendar just because
you can see things in a different way versus you know,
place versus time. It's just a different experience and so
I value that a lot.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
One more exciting thing was finding out that everybody from
the team is actually really cool. I mean, you have
no idea what you're walking into from the outside looking in,
you know, and if you look at Reddit, Josh is
apparently like the worst person on earth, and you know, like, I.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Don't ever look at redit, don't look at it.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Yeah, I feel so bad because yeah, it's just such
some of it is so so upsetting to see, and
you know, he's in a position and we're in a
position now where you know, you can't really interact with
that to try to explain yourself because it's just going
to fall on deaf ears.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
But make it worse.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Yeah. But but going to Denver and meeting him and
meeting Kaz, I just was blown away by how much
of a good time we had and how it just
felt very natural. They were both so nice. I mean
we were there was a lot of after hours partying
and the majority of the time, you know, I think
(32:46):
I sat with Kaz for maybe four hours the one
day in the bar, just talking about different ideas, and
I just to me, that was just a really good
thing that it happened, that these guys are awesome and
it's going to be a good working relationship and just
kind of settle any nerves of walking into something that
you know, could have been completely opposite. You know, we
(33:07):
have we had no idea, so it really worked out.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
I think, Well, I think it's the same idea of
listeners thinking that oh, you're you're doing this thing, you
must be independently wealthyer or have a background in law
enforcement or journalism or something. It's like, we're all just
normal people, you know, and you don't really see that
through the podcast obviously, but you know, we're all just
doing our best to achieve the same goal.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
All the research that we met so far with you know, Jordan, Shana,
Michelle Tucker, like even just like over just through through
the online platforms, Like everybody's very receptive, very encouraging, and
it's just nice that it seems like Josh has been
able to really build a team of really this kind
people with all the same goal in mind. It's awesome,
(33:56):
awesome to see behind the scenes.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
So can you explain the different types of cash is?
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Of course, originally when we first got into this, we
were looking directly into the kill kits. And one thing
that we noticed throughout our research is that not every
every cash has weaponry or ammunition in it, and that
different cases will be used for different things. And the
(34:27):
first one that jumped out is the disposal kit. And
so the disposal kit is very different from a kill kit,
and so that was right there. We're like, okay, there's
two different kinds of cashes. Here. We have a kit
that's meant to abduct and assault somebody, and we have
a kit that's meant to dispose of somebody. When we
(34:49):
heard him speak of Eagle River, Alaska cash, there was
another cash. There was a tool cash that he had
a cash with a battery grinder in it, and of
course then there's the bank robberies, and so he has
money caches, he has cashes that are meant just to
(35:09):
store money, and then you know, so it just kept
spiraling into a bigger and bigger thing of like, Okay,
there's there's way more than the one cash type of
cash or the two types of cases, and that just
made us really analyze his description of these cases and
(35:30):
what they were used for, and it was you know,
if you've spent hours and hours going over the interrogations,
I think that it's it's obvious that he's using these
for different things.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
And they seem like they're very similar, and they are.
They all do accomplish the same goal of helping them
commit a crime, so you could say it's all the same.
But you know, the just the Eagle River disposal cash
being in a spot completely different from where he planned
to do the reduction in the act, and he actually
had a kill kit station behind the pit toilet. They're
(36:05):
ready for him, so already showing that they are separate.
It just it helps you understand like the pattern of
his crime, or helps us understand the pattern of his crime.
Like the money cash that Dakota talked about you know,
a lot of this, a lot of these ideas. You know,
there's some speculation involved. But like the money cash, we
know that he buried money by the airport in Houston,
(36:27):
and you know that could just be a one off,
but it could potentially lead to something where maybe that's
what he does, is he just if he does rub
a bank, then he plans all the money closer to
the next airport or maybe plants it close to where
his family lives, and every time he flies in, he
goes and grabs the money and is able to take
it somewhere else. We think there's potential for a souvenir
(36:49):
cash and you know this is just based off of
certain things that he says, like he would he sometimes
would never go back to them and if he did,
he would only go to see if they are still there.
So just basically possessing these cases and that could be
you know, just guns that he stole from committing a burglary.
The fact that he could have some of these items
(37:11):
closer to maybe where he did kill somebody, as like
a souvenir or basically something just to hold all those
souvenirs that he can just possess and not dig up
to like get guns out or anything like that, to
always go back to just know that it's there and
know that it's his and he knows that nobody else
knows it's there. And then the last one would be
the home base cash. And we got this from a
(37:32):
very specific quote that he said in one of the interviews.
We won't release that right now, but he made us
think that he had a cash near Ania Bay, and
we kind of talked a little bit about this with
specially Tahuala. I think we released some of that audio already,
but there will be more coming up soon. Basically, the way,
it seems as though there's an opportunity for him to
(37:53):
have a larger stash of weapons or a larger stash
of materials that he would eventually go back to and
then disperse it to other cases throughout the country. And
this could be, you know, in his home and maybe
it's not considered a cash then it's just guns that
he has, but if it's any gun that was stolen
or that he purchased for the future use in rhyme,
it seems likely that it would have it closer to
(38:15):
his home, so we can always go back, dig it up,
work on it, oil it, maintain it, and make sure
that it's it's good to use until he is able
to go and place in another cash. So that's kind
of where that idea came from. Again, same thing. Speculation
on that based off of just some things that he's said.
But we will get into that when we get to it.
But we've had a lot of people ask us about that.
I think it's good to kind of clarify. We tried
(38:37):
to clarify it.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
Well.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Hopefully as we proceed throughout the rest of the episodes,
we can really help define those a little bit better
and make it a little bit more obvious to what
we're what we're shooting for.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Funny and you guys said you liked gas. I'm just
going to say in the last episode, it was just
really endearing to hear Special Agent Haul I'd be like,
you know, I haven't really I don't really look to
the to the different types of cash. Is like all right, okay,
Like you know, it was, Yeah, it was really neat
(39:06):
to hear him kind of be like, huh.
Speaker 3 (39:09):
All right, you know, I don't I don't think that
we're doing anything spectacular that the FBI like hasn't thought
of or anything. I think that they have protocols and
and things like that in place, you know, but there's
been a few things. Josh Josh made some simple but
(39:31):
important corrections in the case file for them, which I
thought was pretty amazing. And then like we talked about
the t k T being spray painted on the road,
it's definitely you know, exciting and motivating to bring bringing
new information that maybe has been kind of glossed over
(39:51):
and could be important.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
I'm glad you said that, because it's that's kind of
how it's how it's been with us where we've never
heard I can either confirm or deny that or you know,
I'm not delivery to say nothing, none of that kind
of stuff. It's always either I don't know, I'll look
into it. Like he's just very open to usd about
it and is not trying to He doesn't try to
(40:16):
act like he knows everything. And it seems pretty obvious that,
you know, they spend the resources on trying to find
the victims and not spend a lot of time on
the cash is right now. It makes it very comfortable
for us.
Speaker 3 (40:28):
I feel like they are extremely motivated you know, and
they want the same thing we want, so.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
Absolutely, so have you found a cash?
Speaker 3 (40:41):
I can't tell you.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
That is that is the appropriate response. Keep listening right,
yeah to the episode.
Speaker 3 (40:52):
Join the Patreon we will.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
You know, when I read online, if they had found
a cash, we would have already known about. It would
be in the news. So it's kind of sad that
it's devolved into like just hate instead of you know,
people who are interested in the case, who want to
(41:14):
find stuff. Like you know, I think there was a
time and place when if you went online, people would
be like curious and open and all of that stuff.
And now it's like, I don't know if it's like
a I don't know what it is. I think I
think it's the natural progression of becoming popular and and
I think some of the moderators have said, you know
(41:36):
that they've been in other communities where like this has
happened as well. But it's just it's unfortunate because it
would be awesome if these people like devoted energy and
time to actually finding stuff instead of talking about how
everyone sucks.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
Yeah. Yeah, I mean that's not going to get us
any further.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
As part of it, that's almost a little endearing to
me because it's they still keep coming back and listening,
and I think it's like the same way, you know,
like I've been the same way with other podcasts where
I've heard something that was, you know, you just want
more out of you want more information, You're like hungry
for something, and I think these people do, like they
(42:16):
do want a cash to be found. They do want
to be to be found, you know. And it's just
that sometimes can be difficult to take in whenever you're
just sitting back and listening, especially if you feel like,
you know, if we are holding back information or something
like that. And I think that's even the comment, you know,
if they would have if they found something, it would
have already you know, been released, And I think that
(42:38):
is a very intelligent way of looking at it. And
you know what, it can be hard, but I still
think there's like an endearing part of it where they
really do just want information as well.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
You have a generous part Josh.
Speaker 3 (42:55):
For punishment, Yeah so much.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
I mean I don't like reading it, but yeah, I
still feel like there's some intention there. They do want answers,
and I can empathize with that for sure.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
Yeah, but yeah, I'll shoot you guys a lark message
about potential time for another meetup.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
Okay, and thank you. Thank you for doing this. Kim, Yeah,
super last minute and it was awesome.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
So and Dakota, you promised to edit out all the
dumb parts that I do.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
It's gonna be I'm just going to edit myself out of.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
All right. Well, thank you to you both. Have a
good evening you too.
Speaker 3 (43:35):
What's not to say? Thank you so much?
Speaker 1 (43:37):
All right, bye, bye bye.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
Thanks for listening to this episode of Somewhere the Pines,
and thanks for all the five star reviews and for
telling your friends. We'd also like to give a very
special thank you to our Patreon producers, Heather Horton, Whedon,
Nicole Gooseman, Colleen Sullivan, Linley Twoshoff, utter Man, and kJ
have a good night.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
Can you all hear me?
Speaker 2 (44:14):
I can. How's it going good.
Speaker 1 (44:17):
I'm using a new headset, so tell me if you
hear like me snorting or heavy breathing or something. You
don't know. I'm not sure what it's going to capture.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
Do you snort a lot when you're talking?
Speaker 1 (44:28):
We'll see
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
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