August 3, 2025 • 51 mins
In this heartfelt and wisdom-packed episode of the Soul Podcasting Podcast, I sit down with Dennis Meador—visionary founder of The Legal Podcast Network and lifelong entrepreneur. Dennis shares how his passion for helping attorneys build real authority sparked the creation of a platform where legal voices could finally be heard, clearly and confidently. We talk about what it means to step into your voice, especially as a service-based professional, and how simplifying the podcasting process can help more founders show up fully without the overwhelm. If you’ve ever felt the call to lead with your story but didn’t know where to start, Dennis’s journey will remind you that your voice is your brand—and it’s time to own it.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Hi, everyone, Welcome to the Soul Podcasting Podcast. Today's guest
that I have with me is awesome. He's going to
be sharing so much about podcasting and about his background
in branding, and everything that he's sharing today is going
to help us as podcasters. So his name is Dennis Metter,
and he first started a company at fourteen years old,
(00:35):
So we're going to go back and hear a little
bit of your story. But he's also been an entrepreneur
for most of his life and he specializes in helping
attorneys establish their expertise and authority online.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
So welcome Dennis, Thank you very much.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Feel free to call me DM Demetria, but if Dennis
keeps coming, but either way it works for you.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
All right, DM, Let's let's go with that, Okay. So
now I I'm just interested in how you got into podcasting.
This is a show about podcasting for podcasters, and I
always love to know your journey, like how did you
kind of weave your way into this podcasting space, what
got you started interested in it? And then how did
you start helping attorneys get into podcasting?
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Absolutely, So, I lived in Austin for about ten years,
and i'd been there for a few years and was
at a place in my life I was going out,
you know, like I was one of those people, like
first people to start like a food only Instagram, so
kind of got like, you know that like early fourteen
fifteen sixteen, when everyone didn't walk up to a trailer
and go, I have three thousand followers, give me free food,
(01:41):
you know, kind of like a influencer reputation that's out
there now. I remember back when I was doing it.
You know, they invited us to dinners. There's about fifteen
of us. We all got to know each other. It's
kind of a little nice community that I got to
be a part of. And kind of segued that over
a period of a few years to where in twenty nineteen,
(02:03):
I actually launched a podcast called atx AF and it
was about food, music life. I interviewed musicians, entrepreneurs, chefs.
Basically the premise of the show was I thought everyone
said Austin was cool, Let's show him how.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Cool it is cool. And I had.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
About a group of ad a crew of about ten people.
We would shoot on site and I think I did
about sixty episodes in three months, spent six figures, spent
a little over six figures on it didn't make a
dime off of it. I was okay because what I
learned was production value makes all the difference in the world.
(02:48):
So it kind of took that mind for it because
I wasn't the only you know Austin podcast, But I
went from who is that guy? To you don't know
who that guy is in just a short amount of
time because all the top people wanted to come and
be on my show because I, like I said, I
had a four K camera in twenty nineteen shooting, so
you know, I had two sound people, I had you know, ever,
(03:11):
we had food brought in. I mean, we made it
a whole thing where it was an experience for people
who were known throughout the community. So I kind of
put that in my pocket, learned a few things from it,
heard a few things from people from Austin and the
impact that it had had, so I knew it was
beyond just like I'd had Ali Khan from Good Eats
(03:32):
on the Food Network, just people like that a few
years later. So I have been a marketer for almost
thirty years. I've been a digital marketer for since two
thousand and two and two thousand and three, I started
working with attorneys. So originally in marketing, I was making
(03:54):
three four hundred bucks an ad, right, you sell an
ad in this magazine or this post or whatever. And
I started selling a turn needs It's like five grand
a month. And I was like, okay, I like these people,
not just because of what they were spending, but what
I learned with attorneys was their condition primarily to discuss
(04:16):
and to respect logic. And so if you can go
to an attorney and say, yeah, but if you thought
about this and this and what about and they'll be like,
you know.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
You're right, okay.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
And I really like that because I'd grown up with
an aversion to sales, although it seems to be very
natural for me, but I didn't like the concept of
using sales tactics. You know, if I can if I
can bring you three new customers a month, you know,
how would that change your life?
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Would you like the bill sent to your mansion or
your yacht? You know, just all that sort of like
slimy sales mentality, And with attorneys never had to do it.
So I've had SEO agencies with attorneys, social agencies, text agencies,
branding agencies. When you've done this long enough. You've tried
(05:06):
a little bit of everything.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Right.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
A company I had when I live in tols I
called it Kitchen Sink, Inc. Because we did everything but
the kitchen sink. So me and my partner. I'd been
a part of an SEO company for about five years,
and my partner bought me out at the end of
December twenty twenty three, I was bound. I was set
to get married in April of twenty twenty four. Not
(05:31):
really fortuitous timing, but I'm an entrepreneur. I have a
book that has about fifty to one hundred sort of
business ideas, but at any given time, I probably have
twenty to thirty actionable business ideas to where you take
everything away from me, give me a laptop and an
internet connection, and we've been a few days to a week.
(05:51):
I'm starting over and progressing back in life. So that's
what I did. I started the Legal podcast Network. Officially
launched it May twenty twenty four, myself and my va here.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
We are a little over a year later.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
We have approaching forty people on my team. We have
roughly about one hundred and fifty clients. We have three
or four big projects I mean, it's just it's just been.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
A whirlwind in one year.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
So the answer to how did I get here not
quite sure, but for the most part, followed the money,
followed the personality type, and now I'm here today.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Wow. You are driven and the entrepreneurial streak that the
blood of the entrepreneur, it runs all through you, because
like you said, you can take something and just start
from scratch, even if everything's taken from you. And that's
the heart of a true entrepreneur is to be able
to start over. And I just love that you have
these ideas and you just go for it. And it's
(06:52):
only been one year, so that's amazing that you've grown
the legal podcast network that quickly. So I just wanted
to from what.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
I can tell, from what I can see, and don't
quote me on this, but I know who my two
or three other quote unquote competitors are, and they've been
in the space for a while. One they all cost
seven to ten times what I cost, because I've just
figured out a way to deliver more at a much
lower cost. But beyond that, like one of them is
(07:21):
under the American Bar Association, we already are a bigger
network in regards to shows and connections and everything than
any other legal network out there. Now, if somebody comes
and shows me tomorrow that they've got two hundred shows
and da da da da da, I will publicly apologize
and send out the video and you can send it
to all of your people if you want to. But
(07:42):
from my research, in one year, we've gone from who
are they? To who aren't they?
Speaker 1 (07:48):
That is amazing, that's amazing, and it just speaks volumes
to not only you're kind of the mastermind behind all
of this, but you're able to choose the right people
to join your team and to work with you on this.
It's it's a massive.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Team is everything. Team is everything. Jordan didn't win untill
they put the right pieces around him. And you know,
as great as Lebron was, he didn't win till he
had the right pieces. No, maybe they weren't the same
pieces put around Jordan whatever. And we could take that
into any sport or any sort of like activity. The
reality is no one wins alone. We all win as
(08:21):
a part of a team. And I have been extremely fortunate.
I built a remote only company. I have people from
California to the Philippines and literally everywhere in between. And
I'm talking about going east, not west, because that wouldn't
be very many people. So but we've got people all
over the world, and what's more important than anything else
(08:42):
is how many of them are so bought into what
we're doing.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
You know, they they live.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Eat, breathe, They're excited to be a part of something.
And you know, somebody comes in that isn't a fit.
I know it right away because my team's going you
know so, and so I'm just like, Okay, is it
their personality or is it their work ethic, because personalities
we can learn to work together work ethic and moral compass.
(09:09):
If it's that, then okay, we'll deal with it.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Right right exactly. So you just mentioned something remote. You
said that you have been working with people all over
the world, and so I'd love to know a little
bit more about that because I mean, I work remotely
as well. But like, this is this is the thing
that everyone's looking at. How can we establish our business
not just locally but worldwide? And you're able to build
(09:33):
those connections all over, So tell us a little bit
about how that works for you and your process.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
So for me in building a team, you know, again,
I'm very fortunate. I had like when me and my
partner split up, like a month later, this guy calls
me from or gets hold of me from Pakistan, and
he's like, you don't know me, but I've actually been
the director of all of your work for like the
last three or four years, and the moment when I
(10:00):
found out you were gone, I started just waiting to
where I could work with you. And so I had
probably four or five people come over with me, or
groups of people come over with me. So I was
pretty fortunate with that. But when you talk about remote work,
I think there's a few things that businesses don't quite
(10:20):
think about, and the first one is culture. So I've
had a lot of Filipino or Filipina vas.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Do you know.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
I lost my first five vas and I got ghosted
by them.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
Not because Filipinas are awful people. Filipinos are awful people,
but because I'm a very plain shorts you know, plane spoken,
get business done, Yes, no, do this, do that. When
I'm in business mode, you know, I'm just like, this
is what I'm doing, get it done, and what's your question? Okay, yes,
go now next, you know, And that's just how I
am for it. Yeah, and that works for the majority
(10:57):
of people, they appreciate that. But to a Filipino who
is very as a culture. Not so I'm not stereotyping
every one of them, but overall as a culture, there
is a strong aversion to any sort of friction. And
so every time I would just be like, no, just
get that done, take care of that, move on, and
(11:18):
then we could just like all of a sudden, they
were gone. So I had to learn to work with
Filipino people. Now I have one va, she's been with
me five years, and you know, I have to learn
to just be like, hey, do you mind, and what
do you think you know, and just basically put that
nice filter that I'd like to think it's there anyway,
but like in business, when I'm in business mode, that
(11:40):
nice filter just kind of fades off and it's just
all about yeah, same thing. I've got a team of
almost twenty people in Pakistan. We just did a company
wide like incentive where I basically said, listen, guys, if
we can reach X as a company, this is what's
going to require from everybody.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
If we reach it, I'm going to give three.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
Cash prizes out and you know, everybody in the world's
eligible for him. You know, it's not just the Americans
and the salespeople. Matter of fact, my salespeople weren't in it.
My directors weren't in it. A lot of my American
based people weren't even eligible for it. And I have
one one US person wins a few hundred dollars, one
(12:23):
person the Philippines wins a few hundred dollars, and both
of them are like, Oh, this is awesome.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
I can do this. I can do that.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
I'm going to go buy this. I'm like, oh, great, congratulations.
A guy at Pakistan wins the biggest prize, five hundred dollars.
So I say to my team leader there, I'm like,
ca sad. I was like, what's he gonna do? Like,
is he going to like you know, because like for
five hundred dollars you could build an addition on your
house in a place like Pakistan. Like that's not light money, right,
(12:49):
So I'm like, what is he doing? And he was like, Oh,
we're having a big party. He's taking the money and
he's sharing it on the team because we all want
it together in our mind. So we're having a big
like dinner that we're having brought in and spending the
evening together. That is cultural. So what do I do
with that? From now on? I don't go, Hey, Pakistan
(13:09):
team in Pakistan, you guys are gonna be it's a
tournament and Joe, you're against Steve and you know, and
whoever wins is the champion. They're gonna be like what.
I don't want to be the champion, right, Like you know,
I want to be on the winning team. I don't
want to be the World Wrestling Federation heavyweight champion. So
understanding the culture of those that you want to work with,
(13:34):
I think is the biggest lesson I've been. I've been
working remote since the early two thousands. I started a
company and I moved to Romania, and I ran my
company from Romania off of calling cards and dial up internet.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
So I've been doing remote for a very very long time.
I'd say the second key in building a remote company
is finding a way to make them feel connected. For example,
we don't you slack any of those actually built my
own Discord server. It's a lot more fun it. You know,
gamers use it. It's just a lot more interactive, silly,
(14:11):
and you know, we do a lot of that in there.
We have fun, we tease each other. I've got a
young man in South Africa, you know, and I'm always
teasing him like, oh, you're not nearly as good looking
as you think you are, and he's like.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Well, I'm not forty eight, you know.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
Just you know, just having like camaraderie that you would
around the office, right, but being the one that you
have to push that culture for a few months, but
then another person catches on, then another, and then all
of a sudden that culture exists and I stepped outside
of it, and yet there's still this camaraderie and back
and forth and fun and cheering each other on and
(14:45):
celebrating team wins and so again, it's all things like
that that for me make the biggest difference in having
a remote company or having a remote culture, right, And
what I seek to do is create a remote culture
knowing that the remote company will take care of itself.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Absolutely. I love that. So the whole thing with podcasting
and what you're saying about building companies remotely is the communication,
I think, and then we'll get to that in a
moment about how podcasting helps with communication. But I think
having a remote company, and building one like you have
helps to helps us to, like you said, put on
(15:28):
those filters where we need to because we're going cross cultural.
And so I think it's amazing that you are connected
with so many people from all over the world and
you're able to just figure out how to build community
online with your team. And I like that you're using
discord that's so cool to create kind of that office vibe,
(15:49):
so very very cool. And then you created the Legal
podcast Network for attorneys. So I wanted to ask you
how has the Legal Podcast networkstrumental in helping lawyers and
attorneys to use podcasting as they're kind of their basis
for authority, like to build authority in their field, because
there's so many different ways to build authority online, but
(16:11):
podcasting one extra way to do that. And so what
made you hone in on podcasting versus maybe you could
focus on branding, marketing, keyword strategy, all these other things.
But what diodcasting.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Let's talk about my client archetype. It's an attorney.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
What is the innate ability of an attorney stereotypically? What
do we know all attorneys are known for When you
have that little kid and they just argue and talk
and argue, and we say, well, you're going to grow
up to be a lawyer.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Why are we saying that? Because they can talk right.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
They make sense of a situation.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
But they're not afraid to communicate exactly.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
And typically attorneys, all we're doing is harnessing their innate
ability to reflect who they are online offline, because what's
happened to attorneys, especially those who have aged out a
little bit.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
You know, I'm like xeniol, but.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
You know lay forties, fifties, sixties, some even into their seventies,
they've completely aged out of the ability to market. They
can't buy Yellow Pages ads and newspaper ads. And sure
they can throw PPC at some guy, you know, across whatever,
but they're just guessing. What we're doing is we're saying, Okay,
(17:34):
you've got fifteen criminal defense attorneys in your market. What
sets you apart? Not your website? A I do that
to you website, not your background. They all went to
school and law school, and they all won a mock
trial thirteen years ago, and like, so what is your
point of differentiation? It's what happens here. So what we're
(17:59):
trying to do is give them a frictionless vehicle to
express their expertise in a way that not only creates
a great piece of evergreen content like a podcast, but
we have created a whole ecosystem of marketing around the podcast,
(18:20):
for example, so our clients can do once a month,
twice a month, or weekly or what we say, four
times a month. Each show is about seventeen to twenty
one minutes. These aren't meandering podcasts where we're just chatting
about this and oh did you see the game? These
are pointed, authoritative positioning podcasts where we we've identified their
(18:46):
ideal client profile. So instead of I'm a divorce attorney, No,
who's your ideal client? Well, I want a high asset
divorce for a business owner who has custody issues. That's
where I really thrive. It make my money.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
So we then we have someone on my team she's
done content for attorneys for well over ten years, interviewed
over one thousand law firms for content purposes. So we
create a content plan and in each podcast session of
about twenty minutes, we're going to ask them seven to
ten questions. We actually provide the host, we provide the producer.
(19:23):
They just put their camera they could sit at their desk,
they can put a decent mic in front of them,
and then it's just like Joe, good to have you back,
and it's the Joe Johnson, you know law firm podcast.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
It's branded towards them.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
Our person is just a co host and on the
very end it says produced by the Legal Podcast Network.
So it is a bespoke, custom podcast for them that's
designed to show them as an expert for their client archetype.
So now they sit there, they answer seven to ten questions.
We take that recording, we create a podcast video, We
(19:58):
create ten to twelve shorts, we create ten audiograms, we
create ten static posts, we create two to three pages
of website content, and we do all of this with
thirty minutes of their time. We're literally posting if they're
doing just one show, thirty minutes of their time one
show a month, we're doing a complete month's worth of
(20:20):
marketing that is custom and authoritative. The other advantage is
we just entered into the AI language learning models, you
know GEO, and it is all query based content. So
no longer do you want to be clicked on, you
(20:42):
want to be cited in the top of the of
these claude and chat GPTs, whatever else. Because when you
see those answers, they all have little little dots next
to them. You click on that dot and it says
this came from so and so's podcast, or this came
from so and so's website. So when people want to
know more, now they're being cited. And now we're future
(21:05):
proofing their marketing by giving the algorithms what they need,
which is more custom content from humans in structured thinking processes.
We're giving them that. But not only our refuture proofing,
we're also present proofing because we're using YouTube.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Who owns YouTube? Google?
Speaker 3 (21:26):
So if I answer a question on YouTube and eighty
percent of people would rather watch a video than read
an article, and Google knows that.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
So guess what.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
Now we're scaling go on Google. We're scaling on the
LLM models. We're putting out social media. Each and every day,
we're putting more content on their website and it's all
from them giving us a half hour of their time
and then us harnessing that and then multiplying it across
all the platforms.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
What you just said multiplying You took a half hour
of content and you put your customer, your client in
all the spaces they could possibly need to be to
grow their business right. And so I love that when
you're talking about ecosystems, that this whole thing works together.
(22:16):
That podcasting is a part like a spoke in the wheel,
and there's so many different pieces, but you're using all
the content pieces and that's that is awesome. Ten pieces
of did you say shorts and.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
Ten shorts, ten audiograms, ten reels, so when you do
a thirty minute you have a post. Every day, we
have up to ten outlets, not just like Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn,
but blue Sky, Twitter, x, Twitch, Pinterest, threads, everything. There's like, yeah,
(22:51):
there's ten outlets, and so every single day we take
on all those ten outlets and we stack the content
differently so if you see it on Instagram, you won't
see the same thing on TikTok, and we scale that
across that we do a month's worth. So what I
tell people is, think about this a year ago. And
remember I said we're ai forward. So a year ago
(23:13):
we created the podcast, and we did three pieces of content,
one to go out before the show, one to go
out around the same time, and one to go out after.
We did that on up to five outlets, which means
for every one show there was up to fifteen actions
done to promote that. We now have one show, thirty
(23:35):
days of content with ten places, So we've gone from
fifteen actions to thirty actions in one year with the
same piece of content, just getting better with it. And
we use a lot of internal QA human eyes. It's
not just I don't just have like two guys in
Pakistan just like throwing out a bunch of crappy videos. Like,
(23:58):
we have a three step QA process with what the
main process of it is US based eyes because they're
going to notice things like english wise and just phraseology
and things that most people wouldn't because they're just not
from our country. So we put in all these processes
(24:19):
as well to make sure that it's it's not just
this like cheap generated sort of like, oh I got
it it. Actually it looks brands. We do all their branding,
you know, all their logos, their colors, everything. So it's yeah,
we're essentially an agency disguised as a podcasting network.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Uh huh uh huh, yeah, I see that. I see that.
So you guys are like you do everything, and so
I love that when your client comes to you, they
just know they can be taken care of, like they're
going to have it all done. And the thing that
stands out to me right now is the consistency of
we're going to take your message. We're going to take
(25:00):
these thirty minutes. You don't have to do much to
show up with your content. We've got you covered, we've
got your video, we've got your your The person who's
interviewing I.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Don't even have to show up with their content.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
We send them the questions at least a week ahead
of time, so they just have to show up and
answer questions that they usually answer two three times a week.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Anyway, it's amazing. That is amazing. And then from there
they're just all over They're all over the place Pinterest
and everywhere, all the socials.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
Yeah, yeah, because I am outlet agnostic. Right at the
end of the day, everyone's like, oh, my clients aren't
on Pinterest, And then I'm like, are you on Pinterest? No,
how do you know your clients aren't aren't on pest? Well,
Pinterest is for this, Okay, what if only ten percent
of the people on pinterest might be your client? Wow,
(25:50):
But if you think about this, and I love to
talk about the concept of digital languages, and the easiest
way for me to explain it is this. We probably
all have that one friend where if we text them,
text them, text them, we might as well be texting
the president. We're not hearing back, right, But then you
like inbox them and TikTok or Facebook or whatever, and
(26:13):
three seconds later like, oh, hey, what's going on?
Speaker 2 (26:15):
And you're like, I just I just text you every
day for eighteen months straight and you acted like I
was dead.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
I hit you up in the inbox and Facebook one time,
and I'm the long lost friend.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Where have I been?
Speaker 3 (26:27):
But that's how most people are LinkedIn. People are LinkedIn
people Facebook, people are Facebook people. They might have the
other stuff, right, but they live typically in one or
two outlets. And so what I tell my clients is
there are people living in these outlets that if you
(26:48):
don't reach into them, they will never know you exist
to help them.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
That's true, and so that's why we do that.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
It's like twitch channels, Yeah, I want to why would
I want a Twitch channel?
Speaker 2 (26:59):
What if you got a client out of it?
Speaker 3 (27:00):
You know, I used to have this phrase I used
to say back in the day, especially in paper days. Say,
let me ask you a question, do you really care
where your client comes from? What if we took and
we printed toilet paper with your ad on it, and
we replaced all of the public restroom toilet papers in
the city with your ad. If you got five clients
from people wiping their back in with your AD, would
(27:23):
you turn them away?
Speaker 2 (27:26):
No?
Speaker 1 (27:27):
No, their clients and their customers.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
So why why do you care if it's Twitch or
LinkedIn or TikTok or whatever. If you can get a
client there, get a client there. Yeah, and with the
way everything is connected, and you know, we use metricool,
it's literally just like we do are all of our clients,
Like I have one person she spends an entire week.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
It's this week here where she.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
From top to bottom, all of our clients does all
of their content for the whole month.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Yeah, that's so helpful that batch content recording and getting
everything done on the front end. Love that you're using
metricals makes everything easy to for just everything in the system.
But yeah, you're so right having your presence everywhere, Like
you won't miss a potential client if you're if you
have a presence there, I know I'm thinking about all
(28:16):
the things now that I know we need to be
doing to get out presence somewhere else, get us on.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Channel right right.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
So there's so much to learn here in this space.
But I wanted to ask you about mindset because I
think that's a really huge part of getting out there.
And it's not just about our voice being heard, but
it's about what how are how are we wired to
think about putting our stuff out there for people to
know that we're available to help them. So have you
(28:48):
had any sort of friction with your maybe your current
clients or clients that you're onboarding or talking to them
about about your services and then like you help their
mindset shift.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
So the issue isn't always the mindset, it's more the
familiarity with technology. And we just fired a client yesterday.
New guy tried to do his onboarding, didn't know how
to turn on his camera, started cussing out My team
started telling them that they're idiots because he doesn't know
(29:23):
how to use a computer.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
So it's like, okay, you can shut it down. Let's
try them in a week.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
Maybe had a bad day, come back, same thing, I said,
Write him his letter, give him his initial money back.
We don't have room for somebody like that. So I'm
not here to change people's minds. I'm here to empower
people that already understand the value and what I can
help them with.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
You go.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
Now that being said, is there are there times where
I have to take a client and help them shift
their mind a little bit. One of the biggest mind
shifts we have to help our clients with and this
can kind of go you know, mindset is they think,
you know, okay, I'll make a podcast, so like I'm
gonna be Joe Rogan in like three months and I'll
(30:08):
make like how much is it?
Speaker 2 (30:09):
A hundred million dollars?
Speaker 3 (30:10):
And you know, oh, you're gonna put me on YouTube too,
so I'll be like mister Beast and make another twelve
million a year and then oh, I'm on, I'm on Apple.
I uh you know, I heard somebody makes a couple
hundred grand a year. So wow, yeah, I'd love to
do your program. It's gonna make me fourteen billion dollars
a year by just putting out my stuff. And it's like,
hold up, right, Like, first of all, if you think
(30:34):
like first of all, the people the success you see
is just like any other any other profession in the world.
That's like literally being like, hand me a basketball, I'm Jordan,
Like they took years and mistakes and millions of dollars
to get to the point that they're at right. Yet
(30:58):
people will be like, Okay, I'll do four podcasts and
if I don't get twelve clients and make a ten XROI.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Then I'm done.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
And I'm like, then don't work with us, because you
know it's gonna happen here in the first four months.
Your friends, your family, your peripheral people. Maybe some like
clients that were almost clients that kind of faded away,
but they're still watching you from afar. So you might
get a client or two during the first four months.
But this isn't about what happens during four months. This
(31:27):
is about what happens five, six, seven, eight. Now, all
of a sudden, they're calling me and they're like, I
just had somebody call me off a chat GPT. I
just had three people this week who've watched my podcast
and now they're my clients. So they don't understand the
importance of the cumulative effect of showing up when it
comes to something like this. Yes, and so I use
(31:51):
this illustration. Which one is more of value to you?
Mister or miss attorney Number one. We're gonna produce a
video and it's gonna get at one million hits, so.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
You went viral.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
Do you know how much YouTube gives you when you
get a million hits on YouTube? A thousand dollars? So
you made ae thousand dollars. Option one, Option two. Fifty
people in your market watched your show, Ten of them
(32:24):
called you, six of them hired you. Average fee was
twenty thousand dollars, So you just made one hundred and
twenty thousand dollars, but you only had fifty viewers. Now
you tell me which of those would you choose?
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Right?
Speaker 3 (32:40):
And when that mind exactly when that mindset shifts and
they understand this isn't about being the next mister Beast
or whatever viral sensation, but about using this. We live
in an age of free media, but it's not free.
It's what I call earned media. Used to be you
buy eyeballs. You can't buy eyeballs anymore. You earn eyeballs,
(33:05):
that's right, And so by by taking advantage of all
the mechanisms in a way that you need to do
it in my opinion two ways well three. Number one,
it's got to be meaty. It's got to be some
good stuff. Can't just stand there and now if you
want a niche show talk about troll dolls. Other people
love trot dolls, they'll watch it whatever, But it's.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
Got to be meaty.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
Number Two, though, it needs to have some sort of
production value.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
I think we talked about talked about that earlier.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
Just the fact of like or I've referenced to Soltens,
maybe I have, it didn't in this show, and just
stop me if I've said this before, but like, sixteen
year olds are running around with three camera crews, and
you're a twelve million dollars a year PI office and
you can't bother to take your iPhone more than your
iPhone out and talk like you're being out produced by children,
(33:53):
and you expect to be treated more seriously than they're.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Being treated on these on these outlets, right, So.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
Up your production level and we can try to help
you with that, and obviously that's what we're here to do.
So production value. But the future, in my opinion, and
this has been every entertainment venue from the beginning of time.
First movie Silent black and white organ player in the background.
Entertainment value on today's scale is probably about a two
(34:26):
right right now, you go to you got to imatt
You know, I saw the other day in Austin they
created like a five x theater completely surround you and
it's got like siles and water and I don't know,
it's crazy, right, and you're watching a movie at the
same time. Think about the entertainment value, and it's the
(34:48):
same venue. Podcasting is a not a new venue, but
it's a venue that has accepted content is more important
than entertainment value and production value. So we've got to
be willing to up our production value. And then as
we up our production value as the in my opinion,
(35:09):
evolution continues to happen, as it's happened in every other venue,
then the entertainment value has to go up.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
No longer will it be enough to say, hey, I
got three juicy steaks sitting here. Pick one.
Speaker 3 (35:22):
They want to know, Okay, well, what are you going
to season it? And is it going to come out medium, rare, rare?
Is it going to come out like?
Speaker 2 (35:28):
I want to know the seasoning.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
I want to know even if all three steaks look
exactly the same. The decisions may based on the seasoning
and the way that you cook it. And so now
we're all running to podcasting to put you know, some
good meat out there for people. And yet we're not
the only one doing it. So now we up our
production value. Now they up their production value. So now
(35:51):
is where real creativity comes in, and that's where entertainment
value comes in. For example, I told you I just
shot my first episode. We came up with this show.
We've got two shows in production, but the one is
our company show. It's called BAM Building Authority through Media,
and it's a seventies and eighties superhero cartoon style podcast
(36:12):
where in YouTube you'll actually see the two characters bam
Man that's me and then I have a dynamic duo
whoever my guest is, and we figure out their title
and we create these like superheroes and then they talk
and fight things. It's not a full comment it's not
a full cartoon yet, but it's like it's got b
roll and it's entertaining. And so we're creating this and
(36:35):
hopefully one day we'll be able to feed it into
the AI engine and say, create a twenty minute cartoon
out of this.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
And so production.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
Value is step two, entertainment value is step three. Most
people are stuck on step one, which is providing quality content.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
Oh man, that won't last forever.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Wow. So that's something we have to look forward to
as podcasters to start thinking about the value of our production,
start thinking about, you know, how to make things just
a little bit better and just just what we can do. Right.
And so maybe we don't have the huge team just yet,
but maybe one day we're thinking of going in that
direction of hiring someone to help us do all of
(37:17):
these things. But I mean, there are little things we
can do to make the quality of our podcast.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Better and absolutely I love that.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
And then entertainment too, Like people come to our shows
because they want something valuable out of it and it
makes them feel good. Like how do we make people
feel good? It's what you were saying about the IMAX theater, right,
It's the smell, it sounds and the visuals. Everything makes
an experience. And so I think that's an important part
of podcasting that just often gets overlooked because we're so
(37:48):
busy talking about the tools and the content.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
Well, as we have more and more people come into
the space where that's we're going to have to do
these things to differentiate ourselves, right, because imagine if every
show on Netflix was Oprah Winfrey, Phil Donna, Hugh and
I'm just trying. I don't even know who has talked
Ricky Leigh Coraldo. Do you know who these people are?
Speaker 1 (38:15):
I remember all of these people.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Okay, good, so right.
Speaker 3 (38:19):
So we're just like if that was our only like
talk shows was our only option.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
After a while, we was just like, yeah, I'm done
with it.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
But yet podcasters are like, I'm gonna sit at a desk,
I'm gonna put something shiny behind me, and I'm going
to talk for an hour and a half about whatever.
And it's like, Okay, you're cutting it now, but give
it a year or two.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
Especially with the integration of AI.
Speaker 3 (38:43):
You know, everyone was doing the baby thing where they
were the baby podcasters, which was nice. You know, it
was kind of a set it and forget it right
now with AI, we're in that. Remember when we all
first started getting apps on our iPhones and we were
like shooting people with pretend guns because it was so funny.
One that I didn't put on but many people found
funny was the one that passed gas and you know,
(39:04):
just the silliest little remember all those silly, dumb apps,
and like that's kind of where we are with AI
right now.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
They're like, oh, look it can do this, and people.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
Are like, I'm a baby doing a podcast, and it's like,
so is like eight hundred thousand other people. Now because
they've released it once, we kind of jump over that
and we really start to see the opportunity that we
can create with podcasts, whether it is through you know, animation,
whether it's through graph whether it's just us sitting here
(39:38):
and things happening in the background, Like I could actually
create a show because this is just a seventy five
inch TV behind me. I could actually just create a
show where as I'm talking, it's doing the different things
and I'm acting it and that doesn't cost AI.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
Right. So, but that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (39:54):
There's so many ways to be creative and people want
to be entertained. Why is it that right now, amongst
all of history, stand up comedy is in its golden age?
In my opinion, it's because people want entertainment, connection, and authenticity.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
Yeah, so when you combine those things, it makes it
a much more palatable experience.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
Exactly authenticity, and they want to feel like they connect
and when they find that favorite comedian that they're connecting with,
that's that's their jam every night, exactly find this comedian.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
What does everybody laugh at?
Speaker 3 (40:35):
They laugh at that part in the in the show
where they go, oh, that's that's me. Yeah, right, Like
that's the part of the show that everybody dies, right,
And when we can start creating not that exact experience,
but those types of experiences within our podcasts, now people
(40:56):
start stop going that's interesting, that's interesting, that's interesting, and
they go, oh, yeah, that's.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
You know, like that's where we're headed, right right, I
am eh.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
Well that that leads me to ask you about the
future of podcasting and how you how do you believe
Let's say there's a new podcaster listening right now, what
should they be working on. What's what advice do you
give them concerning how to move toward where the future
(41:32):
of podcasting is headed. So there's so many things they
can focus on, but what what would be your main
things that you would tell them, Okay, look at this,
do this, do this, and you should be fine for
the next five years.
Speaker 3 (41:42):
Out I don't think there's an easy answer to that,
especially with what's happening with AI.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
That's true.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
What I would tell a new podcaster is start very simple,
start very pointed, and then build your tools and your
mechanisms and your your catchphrases. Like I've got a freaking
stream deck I bought like four months ago. I don't
even know how to plug it in. And I'm supposed
(42:10):
to be able to be like ha ha haha and all.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
That stuff that stream decks do, right, But it's not
even plugged in.
Speaker 3 (42:18):
I don't even know what I'm doing with it, right,
And I think that's the danger for new podcasters. I
need a stream deck, I need a DSLR camera. I
need a double light kit. I need a four thousand
dollars you know TV behind me. Oh, I need I
need so that I you know, I have a stand
up desk. I put a forty five inches so that
(42:40):
everything's accessible to me. But you know, I spent roughly
in the last six months about seven grand in this
room to elevate what I'm doing. But that isn't where
you have to start. Exactly where you have to start
is just keeping it simple, make the show you and
(43:01):
then add the dressing and the you know, costumes or
what whatever it is. You know, another show I'm taking
I'm doing. I'll give you a little sneak preview. You
want to sneak preview.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
That's my next show. Welcome to the Temple of Enthusiasm,
where we.
Speaker 3 (43:20):
Gather those across the lands who are passionate about very
specific things, allowing them to share their passions their enthusiasm
there if you will, their religion with you. And it's
very simply a show where I'm going to source people.
Don't I don't care if she's if it's a ninety
(43:42):
seven year old woman who's crocheted for ninety years and
she's the foremost expert on crocheting and she loves it.
I'm gonna be like kind of my goal. I'm trying
to be like the priest of it, you know, like
the wizard of this show to invite people in and
I'll have a different background and all that time.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
So cool.
Speaker 3 (44:01):
But you bring people in, you let them talk about it,
you make it visual. You're like, okay, what do you
and then you make you put the stuff in the
background for them or for me or in post production,
and so again, it's all about just finding ways to
be creative, tell a story, to to invite people into
(44:22):
where you are for that moment.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
And that's what podcasting is about.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
That's what it can be.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
It can be.
Speaker 3 (44:31):
Dry, but and and and for some they want dry,
you know. But for some they need more than that.
They want to be entertained. They want to feel like
they're going on a journey, they want to learn things
they never would have learned.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
And so these are all the things.
Speaker 3 (44:48):
But yeah, at the end of the day, if I'm
just starting, I'm just focusing on me. I'm just focusing
on my personality. I'm just focusing on what I'm passionate about.
I'm just focusing on bringing in guests that we bounce
off each other to where we raise our level of
enthusiasm and excitement to where the show people just walk
away and are just like that was a podcast. I
(45:12):
think that that's where we need to get just as
a whole across the board.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
I think so too, storytelling and making connections. And for
those who aren't who are just listening, you should check
this out on YouTube. You get to see Dam's cloak
and everything. The whole visual was awesome, So I.
Speaker 3 (45:30):
Got that for seven dollars from a street vendor in Thailand.
Speaker 1 (45:35):
Oh it's so cool. No, I love that because that
that's again I'm all about just paving this path of
podcasting is free. It's a freeing experience, is what I mean.
It's it doesn't have to look a certain way. You know,
you're free to do it the way you want. You're
(45:56):
free to experience podcasting the way you want and producing
it's different for everyone. So I love that. I love that.
And then okay, so you work with attorneys, but do
you also work with other entrepreneurs.
Speaker 3 (46:10):
So attorneys, yes, I mean I have people reach out
to me. Lawyers are my niche. However, I've worked with
every type of Really, I try to stay in the
white collar. Nothing against blue collar. I just hate waiting
for them to get their paycheck so I can get
my paycheck. And then if I miss them by two days,
I don't make my paycheck. And I stop doing that
(46:31):
about fifteen years ago. And I'm not saying all all
contractors are that way. I'm just saying I had that
happen to me enough times to where I've decided that's
not the way I want to run business. So, but
I own the URL, the Professional Podcast Network, and the
Medical Podcast Network. My goal is this fall to launch
(46:53):
probably the Professional Podcast Network, and next spring launch another
one we're just working on. We've got five visions. Three
of them are pretty much self deficient, sufficient run by directors.
Everything's handled internally. Two of them I still have a
lot of, like client experience in sales, I'm still have
(47:13):
to have a lot of hands on experience. I don't
have directors there yet. I don't So once I get
my hands off of those, then we're going to start
building out, building out the new networks and doing more.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
Oh that's amazing. That's amazing.
Speaker 3 (47:27):
Seven years, twelve to fifteen million dollars a year, twenty
five hundred clients.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
That is what I've declared. This will be.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
Wow. I love that well. I wish you much luck
and success and all your endeavors. You're already doing so great.
I know. It's just going to be a wonderful thing
to have all of these networks. You have the Professional
Podcast Network coming up really soon, right or is it
in the works right now?
Speaker 3 (47:51):
And yeah, hopefully we'll launch this fall, like I said,
once we get some internal systems.
Speaker 1 (47:56):
Okay, So let's see how can our listeners find out
more about what you offer and connect with you if
they are interested in just working with you.
Speaker 3 (48:06):
So, if you go to YouTube and just type in
the Legal Podcast Network, you'll see testimonials, client videos, shorts,
and you'll see every not quite every because they update
it once a week, but twenty something podcasts that I've
been on, you know, we throw those up there to
make me look like I'm this big expert. I say
(48:30):
that because it's like, I'm just a dude who just
learns some stuff that other people didn't know and now
I'm telling it to them.
Speaker 2 (48:37):
All.
Speaker 3 (48:37):
An expert is is somebody that knows something that you don't, right, So,
like I take no pride, I take no pride in
in that terminology.
Speaker 2 (48:46):
So LinkedIn, Dennis Metter, that's where you're going.
Speaker 3 (48:50):
To really be able to see, like my writings, a
lot of my videos. It's more of me being my
professional self to the world, so LinkedIn and and than
our normal website, the Legal Podcastnetwork dot com and so
any one of those three areas, and I'm sure you'll
have them in whatever comments this is in, feel free
(49:13):
to reach out and it happens all the time, Hey,
watch your podcast, love to connect with you. I'm not
going to be your customer, is that okay? Yeah, of course,
you know. So sometimes I say I want to be
your customer. I like that a little better. I'm not
gonna lie. But for the most part, hey, I'm here.
If I can be of help to you, more than
(49:35):
happy to do so. And you know, a lot of
content out there, my life, different business philosophies, all kinds
of stuff. And I know everybody's dying to watch twenty
five podcasts of me. So that's why they're all in
one place, because otherwise, you know, why would they be there.
Speaker 1 (49:53):
Damn you're awesome. Thank you so much. I mean, you've
you've really brought a lot of perspective to podcasting things
that that I had been toying with but hadn't really
thought about, like really hadn't sat down and thought about
the different ways to look at podcasting, not just from
the static, but using the visuals and the audio and everything.
So you really shine some light on things for me
(50:14):
to think about, and I know our audience is thinking
the same thing, like, Wow, this is this is a
really neat way to think about podcasting in the future,
and so I thank you for coming on the show
today and for being part of Soul Podcasting.
Speaker 2 (50:29):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (50:29):
Can I say one more thing, Yes, don't build for
the future, build.
Speaker 2 (50:35):
Now for the future.
Speaker 1 (50:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (50:38):
So if you can start doing this stuff now, then
you're not just another Also, you're an originator.
Speaker 2 (50:46):
Who does better in the end, right, Love that?
Speaker 1 (50:48):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (50:49):
Yeah, So I'll leave it with that. I could.
Speaker 3 (50:52):
I could spit a thousand of those and at least
half of them would make sense, So we'll stop.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
I love it. Thank you so much for being here today.
Speaker 2 (51:00):
Thank you
Hi, everyone, Welcome to the Soul Podcasting Podcast. Today's guest
that I have with me is awesome. He's going to
be sharing so much about podcasting and about his background
in branding, and everything that he's sharing today is going
to help us as podcasters. So his name is Dennis Metter,
and he first started a company at fourteen years old,
(00:35):
So we're going to go back and hear a little
bit of your story. But he's also been an entrepreneur
for most of his life and he specializes in helping
attorneys establish their expertise and authority online.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
So welcome Dennis, Thank you very much.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Feel free to call me DM Demetria, but if Dennis
keeps coming, but either way it works for you.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
All right, DM, Let's let's go with that, Okay. So
now I I'm just interested in how you got into podcasting.
This is a show about podcasting for podcasters, and I
always love to know your journey, like how did you
kind of weave your way into this podcasting space, what
got you started interested in it? And then how did
you start helping attorneys get into podcasting?
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Absolutely, So, I lived in Austin for about ten years,
and i'd been there for a few years and was
at a place in my life I was going out,
you know, like I was one of those people, like
first people to start like a food only Instagram, so
kind of got like, you know that like early fourteen
fifteen sixteen, when everyone didn't walk up to a trailer
and go, I have three thousand followers, give me free food,
(01:41):
you know, kind of like a influencer reputation that's out
there now. I remember back when I was doing it.
You know, they invited us to dinners. There's about fifteen
of us. We all got to know each other. It's
kind of a little nice community that I got to
be a part of. And kind of segued that over
a period of a few years to where in twenty nineteen,
(02:03):
I actually launched a podcast called atx AF and it
was about food, music life. I interviewed musicians, entrepreneurs, chefs.
Basically the premise of the show was I thought everyone
said Austin was cool, Let's show him how.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Cool it is cool. And I had.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
About a group of ad a crew of about ten people.
We would shoot on site and I think I did
about sixty episodes in three months, spent six figures, spent
a little over six figures on it didn't make a
dime off of it. I was okay because what I
learned was production value makes all the difference in the world.
(02:48):
So it kind of took that mind for it because
I wasn't the only you know Austin podcast, But I
went from who is that guy? To you don't know
who that guy is in just a short amount of
time because all the top people wanted to come and
be on my show because I, like I said, I
had a four K camera in twenty nineteen shooting, so
you know, I had two sound people, I had you know, ever,
(03:11):
we had food brought in. I mean, we made it
a whole thing where it was an experience for people
who were known throughout the community. So I kind of
put that in my pocket, learned a few things from it,
heard a few things from people from Austin and the
impact that it had had, so I knew it was
beyond just like I'd had Ali Khan from Good Eats
(03:32):
on the Food Network, just people like that a few
years later. So I have been a marketer for almost
thirty years. I've been a digital marketer for since two
thousand and two and two thousand and three, I started
working with attorneys. So originally in marketing, I was making
(03:54):
three four hundred bucks an ad, right, you sell an
ad in this magazine or this post or whatever. And
I started selling a turn needs It's like five grand
a month. And I was like, okay, I like these people,
not just because of what they were spending, but what
I learned with attorneys was their condition primarily to discuss
(04:16):
and to respect logic. And so if you can go
to an attorney and say, yeah, but if you thought
about this and this and what about and they'll be like,
you know.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
You're right, okay.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
And I really like that because I'd grown up with
an aversion to sales, although it seems to be very
natural for me, but I didn't like the concept of
using sales tactics. You know, if I can if I
can bring you three new customers a month, you know,
how would that change your life?
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Would you like the bill sent to your mansion or
your yacht? You know, just all that sort of like
slimy sales mentality, And with attorneys never had to do it.
So I've had SEO agencies with attorneys, social agencies, text agencies,
branding agencies. When you've done this long enough. You've tried
(05:06):
a little bit of everything.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Right.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
A company I had when I live in tols I
called it Kitchen Sink, Inc. Because we did everything but
the kitchen sink. So me and my partner. I'd been
a part of an SEO company for about five years,
and my partner bought me out at the end of
December twenty twenty three, I was bound. I was set
to get married in April of twenty twenty four. Not
(05:31):
really fortuitous timing, but I'm an entrepreneur. I have a
book that has about fifty to one hundred sort of
business ideas, but at any given time, I probably have
twenty to thirty actionable business ideas to where you take
everything away from me, give me a laptop and an
internet connection, and we've been a few days to a week.
(05:51):
I'm starting over and progressing back in life. So that's
what I did. I started the Legal podcast Network. Officially
launched it May twenty twenty four, myself and my va here.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
We are a little over a year later.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
We have approaching forty people on my team. We have
roughly about one hundred and fifty clients. We have three
or four big projects I mean, it's just it's just been.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
A whirlwind in one year.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
So the answer to how did I get here not
quite sure, but for the most part, followed the money,
followed the personality type, and now I'm here today.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Wow. You are driven and the entrepreneurial streak that the
blood of the entrepreneur, it runs all through you, because
like you said, you can take something and just start
from scratch, even if everything's taken from you. And that's
the heart of a true entrepreneur is to be able
to start over. And I just love that you have
these ideas and you just go for it. And it's
(06:52):
only been one year, so that's amazing that you've grown
the legal podcast network that quickly. So I just wanted
to from what.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
I can tell, from what I can see, and don't
quote me on this, but I know who my two
or three other quote unquote competitors are, and they've been
in the space for a while. One they all cost
seven to ten times what I cost, because I've just
figured out a way to deliver more at a much
lower cost. But beyond that, like one of them is
(07:21):
under the American Bar Association, we already are a bigger
network in regards to shows and connections and everything than
any other legal network out there. Now, if somebody comes
and shows me tomorrow that they've got two hundred shows
and da da da da da, I will publicly apologize
and send out the video and you can send it
to all of your people if you want to. But
(07:42):
from my research, in one year, we've gone from who
are they? To who aren't they?
Speaker 1 (07:48):
That is amazing, that's amazing, and it just speaks volumes
to not only you're kind of the mastermind behind all
of this, but you're able to choose the right people
to join your team and to work with you on this.
It's it's a massive.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Team is everything. Team is everything. Jordan didn't win untill
they put the right pieces around him. And you know,
as great as Lebron was, he didn't win till he
had the right pieces. No, maybe they weren't the same
pieces put around Jordan whatever. And we could take that
into any sport or any sort of like activity. The
reality is no one wins alone. We all win as
(08:21):
a part of a team. And I have been extremely fortunate.
I built a remote only company. I have people from
California to the Philippines and literally everywhere in between. And
I'm talking about going east, not west, because that wouldn't
be very many people. So but we've got people all
over the world, and what's more important than anything else
(08:42):
is how many of them are so bought into what
we're doing.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
You know, they they live.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Eat, breathe, They're excited to be a part of something.
And you know, somebody comes in that isn't a fit.
I know it right away because my team's going you
know so, and so I'm just like, Okay, is it
their personality or is it their work ethic, because personalities
we can learn to work together work ethic and moral compass.
(09:09):
If it's that, then okay, we'll deal with it.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Right right exactly. So you just mentioned something remote. You
said that you have been working with people all over
the world, and so I'd love to know a little
bit more about that because I mean, I work remotely
as well. But like, this is this is the thing
that everyone's looking at. How can we establish our business
not just locally but worldwide? And you're able to build
(09:33):
those connections all over, So tell us a little bit
about how that works for you and your process.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
So for me in building a team, you know, again,
I'm very fortunate. I had like when me and my
partner split up, like a month later, this guy calls
me from or gets hold of me from Pakistan, and
he's like, you don't know me, but I've actually been
the director of all of your work for like the
last three or four years, and the moment when I
(10:00):
found out you were gone, I started just waiting to
where I could work with you. And so I had
probably four or five people come over with me, or
groups of people come over with me. So I was
pretty fortunate with that. But when you talk about remote work,
I think there's a few things that businesses don't quite
(10:20):
think about, and the first one is culture. So I've
had a lot of Filipino or Filipina vas.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Do you know.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
I lost my first five vas and I got ghosted
by them.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
Not because Filipinas are awful people. Filipinos are awful people,
but because I'm a very plain shorts you know, plane spoken,
get business done, Yes, no, do this, do that. When
I'm in business mode, you know, I'm just like, this
is what I'm doing, get it done, and what's your question? Okay, yes,
go now next, you know, And that's just how I
am for it. Yeah, and that works for the majority
(10:57):
of people, they appreciate that. But to a Filipino who
is very as a culture. Not so I'm not stereotyping
every one of them, but overall as a culture, there
is a strong aversion to any sort of friction. And
so every time I would just be like, no, just
get that done, take care of that, move on, and
(11:18):
then we could just like all of a sudden, they
were gone. So I had to learn to work with
Filipino people. Now I have one va, she's been with
me five years, and you know, I have to learn
to just be like, hey, do you mind, and what
do you think you know, and just basically put that
nice filter that I'd like to think it's there anyway,
but like in business, when I'm in business mode, that
(11:40):
nice filter just kind of fades off and it's just
all about yeah, same thing. I've got a team of
almost twenty people in Pakistan. We just did a company
wide like incentive where I basically said, listen, guys, if
we can reach X as a company, this is what's
going to require from everybody.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
If we reach it, I'm going to give three.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
Cash prizes out and you know, everybody in the world's
eligible for him. You know, it's not just the Americans
and the salespeople. Matter of fact, my salespeople weren't in it.
My directors weren't in it. A lot of my American
based people weren't even eligible for it. And I have
one one US person wins a few hundred dollars, one
(12:23):
person the Philippines wins a few hundred dollars, and both
of them are like, Oh, this is awesome.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
I can do this. I can do that.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
I'm going to go buy this. I'm like, oh, great, congratulations.
A guy at Pakistan wins the biggest prize, five hundred dollars.
So I say to my team leader there, I'm like,
ca sad. I was like, what's he gonna do? Like,
is he going to like you know, because like for
five hundred dollars you could build an addition on your
house in a place like Pakistan. Like that's not light money, right,
(12:49):
So I'm like, what is he doing? And he was like, Oh,
we're having a big party. He's taking the money and
he's sharing it on the team because we all want
it together in our mind. So we're having a big
like dinner that we're having brought in and spending the
evening together. That is cultural. So what do I do
with that? From now on? I don't go, Hey, Pakistan
(13:09):
team in Pakistan, you guys are gonna be it's a
tournament and Joe, you're against Steve and you know, and
whoever wins is the champion. They're gonna be like what.
I don't want to be the champion, right, Like you know,
I want to be on the winning team. I don't
want to be the World Wrestling Federation heavyweight champion. So
understanding the culture of those that you want to work with,
(13:34):
I think is the biggest lesson I've been. I've been
working remote since the early two thousands. I started a
company and I moved to Romania, and I ran my
company from Romania off of calling cards and dial up internet.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
So I've been doing remote for a very very long time.
I'd say the second key in building a remote company
is finding a way to make them feel connected. For example,
we don't you slack any of those actually built my
own Discord server. It's a lot more fun it. You know,
gamers use it. It's just a lot more interactive, silly,
(14:11):
and you know, we do a lot of that in there.
We have fun, we tease each other. I've got a
young man in South Africa, you know, and I'm always
teasing him like, oh, you're not nearly as good looking
as you think you are, and he's like.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Well, I'm not forty eight, you know.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
Just you know, just having like camaraderie that you would
around the office, right, but being the one that you
have to push that culture for a few months, but
then another person catches on, then another, and then all
of a sudden that culture exists and I stepped outside
of it, and yet there's still this camaraderie and back
and forth and fun and cheering each other on and
(14:45):
celebrating team wins and so again, it's all things like
that that for me make the biggest difference in having
a remote company or having a remote culture, right, And
what I seek to do is create a remote culture
knowing that the remote company will take care of itself.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Absolutely. I love that. So the whole thing with podcasting
and what you're saying about building companies remotely is the communication,
I think, and then we'll get to that in a
moment about how podcasting helps with communication. But I think
having a remote company, and building one like you have
helps to helps us to, like you said, put on
(15:28):
those filters where we need to because we're going cross cultural.
And so I think it's amazing that you are connected
with so many people from all over the world and
you're able to just figure out how to build community
online with your team. And I like that you're using
discord that's so cool to create kind of that office vibe,
(15:49):
so very very cool. And then you created the Legal
podcast Network for attorneys. So I wanted to ask you
how has the Legal Podcast networkstrumental in helping lawyers and
attorneys to use podcasting as they're kind of their basis
for authority, like to build authority in their field, because
there's so many different ways to build authority online, but
(16:11):
podcasting one extra way to do that. And so what
made you hone in on podcasting versus maybe you could
focus on branding, marketing, keyword strategy, all these other things.
But what diodcasting.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Let's talk about my client archetype. It's an attorney.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
What is the innate ability of an attorney stereotypically? What
do we know all attorneys are known for When you
have that little kid and they just argue and talk
and argue, and we say, well, you're going to grow
up to be a lawyer.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Why are we saying that? Because they can talk right.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
They make sense of a situation.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
But they're not afraid to communicate exactly.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
And typically attorneys, all we're doing is harnessing their innate
ability to reflect who they are online offline, because what's
happened to attorneys, especially those who have aged out a
little bit.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
You know, I'm like xeniol, but.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
You know lay forties, fifties, sixties, some even into their seventies,
they've completely aged out of the ability to market. They
can't buy Yellow Pages ads and newspaper ads. And sure
they can throw PPC at some guy, you know, across whatever,
but they're just guessing. What we're doing is we're saying, Okay,
(17:34):
you've got fifteen criminal defense attorneys in your market. What
sets you apart? Not your website? A I do that
to you website, not your background. They all went to
school and law school, and they all won a mock
trial thirteen years ago, and like, so what is your
point of differentiation? It's what happens here. So what we're
(17:59):
trying to do is give them a frictionless vehicle to
express their expertise in a way that not only creates
a great piece of evergreen content like a podcast, but
we have created a whole ecosystem of marketing around the podcast,
(18:20):
for example, so our clients can do once a month,
twice a month, or weekly or what we say, four
times a month. Each show is about seventeen to twenty
one minutes. These aren't meandering podcasts where we're just chatting
about this and oh did you see the game? These
are pointed, authoritative positioning podcasts where we we've identified their
(18:46):
ideal client profile. So instead of I'm a divorce attorney, No,
who's your ideal client? Well, I want a high asset
divorce for a business owner who has custody issues. That's
where I really thrive. It make my money.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
So we then we have someone on my team she's
done content for attorneys for well over ten years, interviewed
over one thousand law firms for content purposes. So we
create a content plan and in each podcast session of
about twenty minutes, we're going to ask them seven to
ten questions. We actually provide the host, we provide the producer.
(19:23):
They just put their camera they could sit at their desk,
they can put a decent mic in front of them,
and then it's just like Joe, good to have you back,
and it's the Joe Johnson, you know law firm podcast.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
It's branded towards them.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
Our person is just a co host and on the
very end it says produced by the Legal Podcast Network.
So it is a bespoke, custom podcast for them that's
designed to show them as an expert for their client archetype.
So now they sit there, they answer seven to ten questions.
We take that recording, we create a podcast video, We
(19:58):
create ten to twelve shorts, we create ten audiograms, we
create ten static posts, we create two to three pages
of website content, and we do all of this with
thirty minutes of their time. We're literally posting if they're
doing just one show, thirty minutes of their time one
show a month, we're doing a complete month's worth of
(20:20):
marketing that is custom and authoritative. The other advantage is
we just entered into the AI language learning models, you
know GEO, and it is all query based content. So
no longer do you want to be clicked on, you
(20:42):
want to be cited in the top of the of
these claude and chat GPTs, whatever else. Because when you
see those answers, they all have little little dots next
to them. You click on that dot and it says
this came from so and so's podcast, or this came
from so and so's website. So when people want to
know more, now they're being cited. And now we're future
(21:05):
proofing their marketing by giving the algorithms what they need,
which is more custom content from humans in structured thinking processes.
We're giving them that. But not only our refuture proofing,
we're also present proofing because we're using YouTube.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Who owns YouTube? Google?
Speaker 3 (21:26):
So if I answer a question on YouTube and eighty
percent of people would rather watch a video than read
an article, and Google knows that.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
So guess what.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
Now we're scaling go on Google. We're scaling on the
LLM models. We're putting out social media. Each and every day,
we're putting more content on their website and it's all
from them giving us a half hour of their time
and then us harnessing that and then multiplying it across
all the platforms.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
What you just said multiplying You took a half hour
of content and you put your customer, your client in
all the spaces they could possibly need to be to
grow their business right. And so I love that when
you're talking about ecosystems, that this whole thing works together.
(22:16):
That podcasting is a part like a spoke in the wheel,
and there's so many different pieces, but you're using all
the content pieces and that's that is awesome. Ten pieces
of did you say shorts and.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
Ten shorts, ten audiograms, ten reels, so when you do
a thirty minute you have a post. Every day, we
have up to ten outlets, not just like Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn,
but blue Sky, Twitter, x, Twitch, Pinterest, threads, everything. There's like, yeah,
(22:51):
there's ten outlets, and so every single day we take
on all those ten outlets and we stack the content
differently so if you see it on Instagram, you won't
see the same thing on TikTok, and we scale that
across that we do a month's worth. So what I
tell people is, think about this a year ago. And
remember I said we're ai forward. So a year ago
(23:13):
we created the podcast, and we did three pieces of content,
one to go out before the show, one to go
out around the same time, and one to go out after.
We did that on up to five outlets, which means
for every one show there was up to fifteen actions
done to promote that. We now have one show, thirty
(23:35):
days of content with ten places, So we've gone from
fifteen actions to thirty actions in one year with the
same piece of content, just getting better with it. And
we use a lot of internal QA human eyes. It's
not just I don't just have like two guys in
Pakistan just like throwing out a bunch of crappy videos. Like,
(23:58):
we have a three step QA process with what the
main process of it is US based eyes because they're
going to notice things like english wise and just phraseology
and things that most people wouldn't because they're just not
from our country. So we put in all these processes
(24:19):
as well to make sure that it's it's not just
this like cheap generated sort of like, oh I got
it it. Actually it looks brands. We do all their branding,
you know, all their logos, their colors, everything. So it's yeah,
we're essentially an agency disguised as a podcasting network.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Uh huh uh huh, yeah, I see that. I see that.
So you guys are like you do everything, and so
I love that when your client comes to you, they
just know they can be taken care of, like they're
going to have it all done. And the thing that
stands out to me right now is the consistency of
we're going to take your message. We're going to take
(25:00):
these thirty minutes. You don't have to do much to
show up with your content. We've got you covered, we've
got your video, we've got your your The person who's
interviewing I.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Don't even have to show up with their content.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
We send them the questions at least a week ahead
of time, so they just have to show up and
answer questions that they usually answer two three times a week.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Anyway, it's amazing. That is amazing. And then from there
they're just all over They're all over the place Pinterest
and everywhere, all the socials.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
Yeah, yeah, because I am outlet agnostic. Right at the
end of the day, everyone's like, oh, my clients aren't
on Pinterest, And then I'm like, are you on Pinterest? No,
how do you know your clients aren't aren't on pest? Well,
Pinterest is for this, Okay, what if only ten percent
of the people on pinterest might be your client? Wow,
(25:50):
But if you think about this, and I love to
talk about the concept of digital languages, and the easiest
way for me to explain it is this. We probably
all have that one friend where if we text them,
text them, text them, we might as well be texting
the president. We're not hearing back, right, But then you
like inbox them and TikTok or Facebook or whatever, and
(26:13):
three seconds later like, oh, hey, what's going on?
Speaker 2 (26:15):
And you're like, I just I just text you every
day for eighteen months straight and you acted like I
was dead.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
I hit you up in the inbox and Facebook one time,
and I'm the long lost friend.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Where have I been?
Speaker 3 (26:27):
But that's how most people are LinkedIn. People are LinkedIn
people Facebook, people are Facebook people. They might have the
other stuff, right, but they live typically in one or
two outlets. And so what I tell my clients is
there are people living in these outlets that if you
(26:48):
don't reach into them, they will never know you exist
to help them.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
That's true, and so that's why we do that.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
It's like twitch channels, Yeah, I want to why would
I want a Twitch channel?
Speaker 2 (26:59):
What if you got a client out of it?
Speaker 3 (27:00):
You know, I used to have this phrase I used
to say back in the day, especially in paper days. Say,
let me ask you a question, do you really care
where your client comes from? What if we took and
we printed toilet paper with your ad on it, and
we replaced all of the public restroom toilet papers in
the city with your ad. If you got five clients
from people wiping their back in with your AD, would
(27:23):
you turn them away?
Speaker 2 (27:26):
No?
Speaker 1 (27:27):
No, their clients and their customers.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
So why why do you care if it's Twitch or
LinkedIn or TikTok or whatever. If you can get a
client there, get a client there. Yeah, and with the
way everything is connected, and you know, we use metricool,
it's literally just like we do are all of our clients,
Like I have one person she spends an entire week.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
It's this week here where she.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
From top to bottom, all of our clients does all
of their content for the whole month.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Yeah, that's so helpful that batch content recording and getting
everything done on the front end. Love that you're using
metricals makes everything easy to for just everything in the system.
But yeah, you're so right having your presence everywhere, Like
you won't miss a potential client if you're if you
have a presence there, I know I'm thinking about all
(28:16):
the things now that I know we need to be
doing to get out presence somewhere else, get us on.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Channel right right.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
So there's so much to learn here in this space.
But I wanted to ask you about mindset because I
think that's a really huge part of getting out there.
And it's not just about our voice being heard, but
it's about what how are how are we wired to
think about putting our stuff out there for people to
know that we're available to help them. So have you
(28:48):
had any sort of friction with your maybe your current
clients or clients that you're onboarding or talking to them
about about your services and then like you help their
mindset shift.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
So the issue isn't always the mindset, it's more the
familiarity with technology. And we just fired a client yesterday.
New guy tried to do his onboarding, didn't know how
to turn on his camera, started cussing out My team
started telling them that they're idiots because he doesn't know
(29:23):
how to use a computer.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
So it's like, okay, you can shut it down. Let's
try them in a week.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
Maybe had a bad day, come back, same thing, I said,
Write him his letter, give him his initial money back.
We don't have room for somebody like that. So I'm
not here to change people's minds. I'm here to empower
people that already understand the value and what I can
help them with.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
You go.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
Now that being said, is there are there times where
I have to take a client and help them shift
their mind a little bit. One of the biggest mind
shifts we have to help our clients with and this
can kind of go you know, mindset is they think,
you know, okay, I'll make a podcast, so like I'm
gonna be Joe Rogan in like three months and I'll
(30:08):
make like how much is it?
Speaker 2 (30:09):
A hundred million dollars?
Speaker 3 (30:10):
And you know, oh, you're gonna put me on YouTube too,
so I'll be like mister Beast and make another twelve
million a year and then oh, I'm on, I'm on Apple.
I uh you know, I heard somebody makes a couple
hundred grand a year. So wow, yeah, I'd love to
do your program. It's gonna make me fourteen billion dollars
a year by just putting out my stuff. And it's like,
hold up, right, Like, first of all, if you think
(30:34):
like first of all, the people the success you see
is just like any other any other profession in the world.
That's like literally being like, hand me a basketball, I'm Jordan,
Like they took years and mistakes and millions of dollars
to get to the point that they're at right. Yet
(30:58):
people will be like, Okay, I'll do four podcasts and
if I don't get twelve clients and make a ten XROI.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Then I'm done.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
And I'm like, then don't work with us, because you
know it's gonna happen here in the first four months.
Your friends, your family, your peripheral people. Maybe some like
clients that were almost clients that kind of faded away,
but they're still watching you from afar. So you might
get a client or two during the first four months.
But this isn't about what happens during four months. This
(31:27):
is about what happens five, six, seven, eight. Now, all
of a sudden, they're calling me and they're like, I
just had somebody call me off a chat GPT. I
just had three people this week who've watched my podcast
and now they're my clients. So they don't understand the
importance of the cumulative effect of showing up when it
comes to something like this. Yes, and so I use
(31:51):
this illustration. Which one is more of value to you?
Mister or miss attorney Number one. We're gonna produce a
video and it's gonna get at one million hits, so.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
You went viral.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
Do you know how much YouTube gives you when you
get a million hits on YouTube? A thousand dollars? So
you made ae thousand dollars. Option one, Option two. Fifty
people in your market watched your show, Ten of them
(32:24):
called you, six of them hired you. Average fee was
twenty thousand dollars, So you just made one hundred and
twenty thousand dollars, but you only had fifty viewers. Now
you tell me which of those would you choose?
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Right?
Speaker 3 (32:40):
And when that mind exactly when that mindset shifts and
they understand this isn't about being the next mister Beast
or whatever viral sensation, but about using this. We live
in an age of free media, but it's not free.
It's what I call earned media. Used to be you
buy eyeballs. You can't buy eyeballs anymore. You earn eyeballs,
(33:05):
that's right, And so by by taking advantage of all
the mechanisms in a way that you need to do
it in my opinion two ways well three. Number one,
it's got to be meaty. It's got to be some
good stuff. Can't just stand there and now if you
want a niche show talk about troll dolls. Other people
love trot dolls, they'll watch it whatever, But it's.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
Got to be meaty.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
Number Two, though, it needs to have some sort of
production value.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
I think we talked about talked about that earlier.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
Just the fact of like or I've referenced to Soltens,
maybe I have, it didn't in this show, and just
stop me if I've said this before, but like, sixteen
year olds are running around with three camera crews, and
you're a twelve million dollars a year PI office and
you can't bother to take your iPhone more than your
iPhone out and talk like you're being out produced by children,
(33:53):
and you expect to be treated more seriously than they're.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Being treated on these on these outlets, right, So.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
Up your production level and we can try to help
you with that, and obviously that's what we're here to do.
So production value. But the future, in my opinion, and
this has been every entertainment venue from the beginning of time.
First movie Silent black and white organ player in the background.
Entertainment value on today's scale is probably about a two
(34:26):
right right now, you go to you got to imatt
You know, I saw the other day in Austin they
created like a five x theater completely surround you and
it's got like siles and water and I don't know,
it's crazy, right, and you're watching a movie at the
same time. Think about the entertainment value, and it's the
(34:48):
same venue. Podcasting is a not a new venue, but
it's a venue that has accepted content is more important
than entertainment value and production value. So we've got to
be willing to up our production value. And then as
we up our production value as the in my opinion,
(35:09):
evolution continues to happen, as it's happened in every other venue,
then the entertainment value has to go up.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
No longer will it be enough to say, hey, I
got three juicy steaks sitting here. Pick one.
Speaker 3 (35:22):
They want to know, Okay, well, what are you going
to season it? And is it going to come out medium, rare, rare?
Is it going to come out like?
Speaker 2 (35:28):
I want to know the seasoning.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
I want to know even if all three steaks look
exactly the same. The decisions may based on the seasoning
and the way that you cook it. And so now
we're all running to podcasting to put you know, some
good meat out there for people. And yet we're not
the only one doing it. So now we up our
production value. Now they up their production value. So now
(35:51):
is where real creativity comes in, and that's where entertainment
value comes in. For example, I told you I just
shot my first episode. We came up with this show.
We've got two shows in production, but the one is
our company show. It's called BAM Building Authority through Media,
and it's a seventies and eighties superhero cartoon style podcast
(36:12):
where in YouTube you'll actually see the two characters bam
Man that's me and then I have a dynamic duo
whoever my guest is, and we figure out their title
and we create these like superheroes and then they talk
and fight things. It's not a full comment it's not
a full cartoon yet, but it's like it's got b
roll and it's entertaining. And so we're creating this and
(36:35):
hopefully one day we'll be able to feed it into
the AI engine and say, create a twenty minute cartoon
out of this.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
And so production.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
Value is step two, entertainment value is step three. Most
people are stuck on step one, which is providing quality content.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
Oh man, that won't last forever.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Wow. So that's something we have to look forward to
as podcasters to start thinking about the value of our production,
start thinking about, you know, how to make things just
a little bit better and just just what we can do. Right.
And so maybe we don't have the huge team just yet,
but maybe one day we're thinking of going in that
direction of hiring someone to help us do all of
(37:17):
these things. But I mean, there are little things we
can do to make the quality of our podcast.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Better and absolutely I love that.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
And then entertainment too, Like people come to our shows
because they want something valuable out of it and it
makes them feel good. Like how do we make people
feel good? It's what you were saying about the IMAX theater, right,
It's the smell, it sounds and the visuals. Everything makes
an experience. And so I think that's an important part
of podcasting that just often gets overlooked because we're so
(37:48):
busy talking about the tools and the content.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
Well, as we have more and more people come into
the space where that's we're going to have to do
these things to differentiate ourselves, right, because imagine if every
show on Netflix was Oprah Winfrey, Phil Donna, Hugh and
I'm just trying. I don't even know who has talked
Ricky Leigh Coraldo. Do you know who these people are?
Speaker 1 (38:15):
I remember all of these people.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Okay, good, so right.
Speaker 3 (38:19):
So we're just like if that was our only like
talk shows was our only option.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
After a while, we was just like, yeah, I'm done
with it.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
But yet podcasters are like, I'm gonna sit at a desk,
I'm gonna put something shiny behind me, and I'm going
to talk for an hour and a half about whatever.
And it's like, Okay, you're cutting it now, but give
it a year or two.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
Especially with the integration of AI.
Speaker 3 (38:43):
You know, everyone was doing the baby thing where they
were the baby podcasters, which was nice. You know, it
was kind of a set it and forget it right
now with AI, we're in that. Remember when we all
first started getting apps on our iPhones and we were
like shooting people with pretend guns because it was so funny.
One that I didn't put on but many people found
funny was the one that passed gas and you know,
(39:04):
just the silliest little remember all those silly, dumb apps,
and like that's kind of where we are with AI
right now.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
They're like, oh, look it can do this, and people.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
Are like, I'm a baby doing a podcast, and it's like,
so is like eight hundred thousand other people. Now because
they've released it once, we kind of jump over that
and we really start to see the opportunity that we
can create with podcasts, whether it is through you know, animation,
whether it's through graph whether it's just us sitting here
(39:38):
and things happening in the background, Like I could actually
create a show because this is just a seventy five
inch TV behind me. I could actually just create a
show where as I'm talking, it's doing the different things
and I'm acting it and that doesn't cost AI.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
Right. So, but that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (39:54):
There's so many ways to be creative and people want
to be entertained. Why is it that right now, amongst
all of history, stand up comedy is in its golden age?
In my opinion, it's because people want entertainment, connection, and authenticity.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
Yeah, so when you combine those things, it makes it
a much more palatable experience.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
Exactly authenticity, and they want to feel like they connect
and when they find that favorite comedian that they're connecting with,
that's that's their jam every night, exactly find this comedian.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
What does everybody laugh at?
Speaker 3 (40:35):
They laugh at that part in the in the show
where they go, oh, that's that's me. Yeah, right, Like
that's the part of the show that everybody dies, right,
And when we can start creating not that exact experience,
but those types of experiences within our podcasts, now people
(40:56):
start stop going that's interesting, that's interesting, that's interesting, and
they go, oh, yeah, that's.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
You know, like that's where we're headed, right right, I
am eh.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
Well that that leads me to ask you about the
future of podcasting and how you how do you believe
Let's say there's a new podcaster listening right now, what
should they be working on. What's what advice do you
give them concerning how to move toward where the future
(41:32):
of podcasting is headed. So there's so many things they
can focus on, but what what would be your main
things that you would tell them, Okay, look at this,
do this, do this, and you should be fine for
the next five years.
Speaker 3 (41:42):
Out I don't think there's an easy answer to that,
especially with what's happening with AI.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
That's true.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
What I would tell a new podcaster is start very simple,
start very pointed, and then build your tools and your
mechanisms and your your catchphrases. Like I've got a freaking
stream deck I bought like four months ago. I don't
even know how to plug it in. And I'm supposed
(42:10):
to be able to be like ha ha haha and all.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
That stuff that stream decks do, right, But it's not
even plugged in.
Speaker 3 (42:18):
I don't even know what I'm doing with it, right,
And I think that's the danger for new podcasters. I
need a stream deck, I need a DSLR camera. I
need a double light kit. I need a four thousand
dollars you know TV behind me. Oh, I need I
need so that I you know, I have a stand
up desk. I put a forty five inches so that
(42:40):
everything's accessible to me. But you know, I spent roughly
in the last six months about seven grand in this
room to elevate what I'm doing. But that isn't where
you have to start. Exactly where you have to start
is just keeping it simple, make the show you and
(43:01):
then add the dressing and the you know, costumes or
what whatever it is. You know, another show I'm taking
I'm doing. I'll give you a little sneak preview. You
want to sneak preview.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
That's my next show. Welcome to the Temple of Enthusiasm,
where we.
Speaker 3 (43:20):
Gather those across the lands who are passionate about very
specific things, allowing them to share their passions their enthusiasm
there if you will, their religion with you. And it's
very simply a show where I'm going to source people.
Don't I don't care if she's if it's a ninety
(43:42):
seven year old woman who's crocheted for ninety years and
she's the foremost expert on crocheting and she loves it.
I'm gonna be like kind of my goal. I'm trying
to be like the priest of it, you know, like
the wizard of this show to invite people in and
I'll have a different background and all that time.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
So cool.
Speaker 3 (44:01):
But you bring people in, you let them talk about it,
you make it visual. You're like, okay, what do you
and then you make you put the stuff in the
background for them or for me or in post production,
and so again, it's all about just finding ways to
be creative, tell a story, to to invite people into
(44:22):
where you are for that moment.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
And that's what podcasting is about.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
That's what it can be.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
It can be.
Speaker 3 (44:31):
Dry, but and and and for some they want dry,
you know. But for some they need more than that.
They want to be entertained. They want to feel like
they're going on a journey, they want to learn things
they never would have learned.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
And so these are all the things.
Speaker 3 (44:48):
But yeah, at the end of the day, if I'm
just starting, I'm just focusing on me. I'm just focusing
on my personality. I'm just focusing on what I'm passionate about.
I'm just focusing on bringing in guests that we bounce
off each other to where we raise our level of
enthusiasm and excitement to where the show people just walk
away and are just like that was a podcast. I
(45:12):
think that that's where we need to get just as
a whole across the board.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
I think so too, storytelling and making connections. And for
those who aren't who are just listening, you should check
this out on YouTube. You get to see Dam's cloak
and everything. The whole visual was awesome, So I.
Speaker 3 (45:30):
Got that for seven dollars from a street vendor in Thailand.
Speaker 1 (45:35):
Oh it's so cool. No, I love that because that
that's again I'm all about just paving this path of
podcasting is free. It's a freeing experience, is what I mean.
It's it doesn't have to look a certain way. You know,
you're free to do it the way you want. You're
(45:56):
free to experience podcasting the way you want and producing
it's different for everyone. So I love that. I love that.
And then okay, so you work with attorneys, but do
you also work with other entrepreneurs.
Speaker 3 (46:10):
So attorneys, yes, I mean I have people reach out
to me. Lawyers are my niche. However, I've worked with
every type of Really, I try to stay in the
white collar. Nothing against blue collar. I just hate waiting
for them to get their paycheck so I can get
my paycheck. And then if I miss them by two days,
I don't make my paycheck. And I stop doing that
(46:31):
about fifteen years ago. And I'm not saying all all
contractors are that way. I'm just saying I had that
happen to me enough times to where I've decided that's
not the way I want to run business. So, but
I own the URL, the Professional Podcast Network, and the
Medical Podcast Network. My goal is this fall to launch
(46:53):
probably the Professional Podcast Network, and next spring launch another
one we're just working on. We've got five visions. Three
of them are pretty much self deficient, sufficient run by directors.
Everything's handled internally. Two of them I still have a
lot of, like client experience in sales, I'm still have
(47:13):
to have a lot of hands on experience. I don't
have directors there yet. I don't So once I get
my hands off of those, then we're going to start
building out, building out the new networks and doing more.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
Oh that's amazing. That's amazing.
Speaker 3 (47:27):
Seven years, twelve to fifteen million dollars a year, twenty
five hundred clients.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
That is what I've declared. This will be.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
Wow. I love that well. I wish you much luck
and success and all your endeavors. You're already doing so great.
I know. It's just going to be a wonderful thing
to have all of these networks. You have the Professional
Podcast Network coming up really soon, right or is it
in the works right now?
Speaker 3 (47:51):
And yeah, hopefully we'll launch this fall, like I said,
once we get some internal systems.
Speaker 1 (47:56):
Okay, So let's see how can our listeners find out
more about what you offer and connect with you if
they are interested in just working with you.
Speaker 3 (48:06):
So, if you go to YouTube and just type in
the Legal Podcast Network, you'll see testimonials, client videos, shorts,
and you'll see every not quite every because they update
it once a week, but twenty something podcasts that I've
been on, you know, we throw those up there to
make me look like I'm this big expert. I say
(48:30):
that because it's like, I'm just a dude who just
learns some stuff that other people didn't know and now
I'm telling it to them.
Speaker 2 (48:37):
All.
Speaker 3 (48:37):
An expert is is somebody that knows something that you don't, right, So,
like I take no pride, I take no pride in
in that terminology.
Speaker 2 (48:46):
So LinkedIn, Dennis Metter, that's where you're going.
Speaker 3 (48:50):
To really be able to see, like my writings, a
lot of my videos. It's more of me being my
professional self to the world, so LinkedIn and and than
our normal website, the Legal Podcastnetwork dot com and so
any one of those three areas, and I'm sure you'll
have them in whatever comments this is in, feel free
(49:13):
to reach out and it happens all the time, Hey,
watch your podcast, love to connect with you. I'm not
going to be your customer, is that okay? Yeah, of course,
you know. So sometimes I say I want to be
your customer. I like that a little better. I'm not
gonna lie. But for the most part, hey, I'm here.
If I can be of help to you, more than
(49:35):
happy to do so. And you know, a lot of
content out there, my life, different business philosophies, all kinds
of stuff. And I know everybody's dying to watch twenty
five podcasts of me. So that's why they're all in
one place, because otherwise, you know, why would they be there.
Speaker 1 (49:53):
Damn you're awesome. Thank you so much. I mean, you've
you've really brought a lot of perspective to podcasting things
that that I had been toying with but hadn't really
thought about, like really hadn't sat down and thought about
the different ways to look at podcasting, not just from
the static, but using the visuals and the audio and everything.
So you really shine some light on things for me
(50:14):
to think about, and I know our audience is thinking
the same thing, like, Wow, this is this is a
really neat way to think about podcasting in the future,
and so I thank you for coming on the show
today and for being part of Soul Podcasting.
Speaker 2 (50:29):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (50:29):
Can I say one more thing, Yes, don't build for
the future, build.
Speaker 2 (50:35):
Now for the future.
Speaker 1 (50:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (50:38):
So if you can start doing this stuff now, then
you're not just another Also, you're an originator.
Speaker 2 (50:46):
Who does better in the end, right, Love that?
Speaker 1 (50:48):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (50:49):
Yeah, So I'll leave it with that. I could.
Speaker 3 (50:52):
I could spit a thousand of those and at least
half of them would make sense, So we'll stop.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
I love it. Thank you so much for being here today.
Speaker 2 (51:00):
Thank you
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