May 21, 2025 • 11 mins
In this podcast, Leim describes the second time he journeyed to Aotearoa. As a research assistant and performer with the Sons of Membertou, he, and others from Unama’ki participate in the World International Council for Traditions Music and Dance Conference. Leim explains their roles in the conference, reconnections with old friends and the exposure to new musics and sounds heard at the conference. Reflecting on both trips, Leim gives his thoughts on decolonization and indigenizing the curriculum.
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(00:00):
Kwe, weli-eksitpuk, tewisi Leim Joe. Tle’awi Maupeltu aqq wetapuksin Wekistoniq.
(00:09):
Pjlasi Welta’q a’tukwaqn.
Hi, good day to you all.
My name is Leim Joe. I live in Membertou, but come from and have roots in Eskasoni,
Nova Scotia.
And welcome to Sound Stories, a Centre for Sound Communities podcast.
I am L’nu from Unama’ki and a research assistant with the Centre for Sound Communities.
(00:36):
In this podcast of Unama’ki Soundscapes, I'll continue my thoughts and reflections on
my recent travels to Aotearoa, known as New Zealand.
The second time I went on the trip, I came as a research assistant with the Centre for
Sound Communities and as a performer with The Sons of Membertou in January 2025 and I stayed
for 15 days.
(00:58):
This time was a winter at home in summer in Aotearoa.
Though colder than the last time I stepped in Aotearoa, our team made the journey for
the purpose of participating in the ICTDM conference.
Some of us had presentations, workshops, chair responsibilities, and the most exciting
for me was the Sons of Membertou concert.
(01:21):
Both experiences blended into a learning environment that helped me rediscover the importance
of preserving our culture and our language.
While in Aotearoa, I learned of completely different perspectives, cultures, sounds, and
music.
I know now that we need to shape our generation by nurturing our growth instead of gatekeeping
culture and practices.
(01:44):
What guided the learning throughout was a concept of Etuaptmumk, which means "two
eyed seeing" in Mi’kmaq.
This is brought to fruition by Elder Albert Marshall and Murdena Marshall.
This perspective can be seen as an "etic" and "emic" perspective in anthropology or
"insiders" or "outsiders" perspective.
(02:05):
But the significant difference is that Etuaptmumk is focused on Indigenous perspectives
and joining Western perspectives for the common goal of educating and learning together.
With all the gained knowledge and perspectives I gained from my first trip, I enjoyed educating
my colleagues about Māori culture, landscapes, wildlife, and the city of Wellington.
(02:30):
In both trips I had the privilege to be able to partake in a guided tour from Wharewaka Te Aro
which translates loosely to the House of Canoes in Te Aro, in the Māori language.
In this powerful tour we experienced a mini whakatau, which was a welcome ceremony.
We learned through oral storytelling the significance of the Waka, the Canoes, and the history
(02:52):
of the land and the people.
In our first trip, our group shared “The Mi’kmaq Honour Song.”
(03:18):
The honour song speaks to the significance of being L’nu or Mi’kmaq.
The second time the group was largely academics from the ICTMD conference, and they shared
their song, which I believe was inspired from a Caribbean Country.
Only then were we then invited to the space and started the tour of Fare Waka.
(03:40):
Hearing the shared struggles with colonialism in the storytelling had me intrigued
to listen attentively so I could try to point out some similarities in Mi’kmaq and
Māori culture.
I pointed out that our creation stories were pretty similar, where Kluskap was created
from clay, and through lightning much like the people of Aotearoa, among other similarities,
(04:01):
such as a Sky Grandfather and Earth Mother, being the deities that we originated from.
One question I remember being asked in our second tour was that of one of my colleagues
who asked the question, "How is your language thriving?"
Our tour guide explained the history of the Te Reo Māori language revitalization in 1980s,
(04:25):
which led to the creation of language nests.
This inspired our colleague to search for more information on the concept and to learn
more from language nests creators.
This sparked influence from my colleague to pursue the creation of a Mi’kmaw language nest,
which hopefully will become to Unama’ki in the near future.
(04:47):
The conference was a new experience for me, it was my first real conference where everyone
in attendance was well accomplished academics, and was a little nerve wrecking.
Luckily my colleagues were the best mentors, the four of us L’nu from Unama’ki and we supported
each other throughout the conference.
Among the variety of music and cultures that were being proudly displayed, we were the
(05:12):
only Mi’kmaq group in attendance.
The two favourite memories of all the presentations we did were the Sons of Membertou concert, where
we performed for the conference and the Mi’kmaq Culture Workshop.
Being a part of the drum practices, with Sons of Membertou helped me immensely, as many
of the songs we performed on stage we did in practice.
(05:33):
All the songs we performed either have a storytelling element to it or dancing with the
audience like the snake dance and the kojua, which is a Mi’kmaq dance.
Their set list consisted of Sons of Membertou songs, and Mi’kmaw songs shared with Mi’kma’ki
which is the land of Mi’kmaq.
Songs like the Gathering Song, the Eagle Song, the Honor Song, and Mukalaqati, the Mountain
(05:56):
Song.
...
...
(06:24):
All these songs were very well received by the audience, which felt great to my
confidence as this was my first time performing with the group. Jerome and Ruiha
met as at the concert and Jerome actually co-performed with us on
(06:45):
stage, with his Taonga pouro, which beautifully complemented the chants we were performing.
(07:12):
It was amazing to reconnect with Jerome and Ruiha once again. The Mi’kmaq
Cultural Workshop was so fluid and it worked so well, it was amazing to think
that we didn't go by the script at all. Our group had a wonderful chair who was
able to direct questions and talking points to each of us as we all had a
(07:34):
part in teaching the audience of the culture of the Mi’kmaq. Our topics included
the history of the Mi’kmaq, the language, our regalia, instruction and
participating in round dance and kojua dancing, followed by a period of
questions ending with a video of the Mi’kmaw Debertewey Centre being
(07:54):
constructed, which holds artifacts from the Mi’kmaq that have been away from
Mi’kmaki for far too long.
A key part of this experience was listening,
participating and observing the many different cultures of the world that were
(08:18):
at the conference. Such as the performances from different
aboriginal groups from Australia, Indigenous groups from Japan, Europe, North America, Pacific Islands and Aotearoa.
At the opening concert, I sat in the front row and was emotionally overwhelmed with
(08:45):
the powerful performances we've seen on stage. In my first visit to Aotearoa, we had
the opportunity to learn Haka from a talented group of performers. Then this time,
we had the opportunity to see Haka being done by the same group that taught me
before. I couldn't help but smile at the pride and prowess on the stage. Many great
(09:07):
friends were made on this trip, plus reconnecting with some old friends,
created memories and laughter that I'll remember for our lifetime. Both my
journeys to Aotearoa in a way evolved my identity as a L’nu by reinforcing the
importance of cultural exchange, preservation and adaption. Through participative
(09:31):
learning, music and shared traditions, I saw firsthand the power of Etuaptmumk,
Two-Eyed Seeing, in bringing Indigenous and Western perspectives together for a
common goal. Whether through the Māori commitment to Kaitaikitangi, which is the
guardianship of environment, the revitalization of Te Reo Māori with
(09:54):
language nests, or the shared stories of resilience in colonization, I realized
how interconnected our cultures are and how much we can learn from one another.
These experiences have strengthened my resolve to preserve and celebrate
Mi’kmaq culture, language and traditions, while also embracing the evolving
(10:17):
nature of cultural identity in a modern world. I can now see the importance of
nurturing knowledge rather than gatekeeping it, ensuring that future generations
continue to grow while honouring their roots. The friendships and lessons gained
from these trips will stay with me forever. I'll also remember that the best way to
(10:38):
build a better future for education is through openness, connection and a
willingness to learn from others.
Thanks for listening to this episode of Sound Stories, a Centre for Sound
Communities podcast. This show is hosted by research assistants of the Centre
(11:01):
for Sound Communities, a social innovation lab at Cape Breton University. Be sure to
tune into our next episode to hear our classmates discuss another exciting
Centre for Sound Communities project.
[Ukutangi and rattle]
(11:44):
Kwe, weli-eksitpuk, tewisi Leim Joe. Tle’awi Maupeltu aqq wetapuksin Wekistoniq.
(00:09):
Pjlasi Welta’q a’tukwaqn.
Hi, good day to you all.
My name is Leim Joe. I live in Membertou, but come from and have roots in Eskasoni,
Nova Scotia.
And welcome to Sound Stories, a Centre for Sound Communities podcast.
I am L’nu from Unama’ki and a research assistant with the Centre for Sound Communities.
(00:36):
In this podcast of Unama’ki Soundscapes, I'll continue my thoughts and reflections on
my recent travels to Aotearoa, known as New Zealand.
The second time I went on the trip, I came as a research assistant with the Centre for
Sound Communities and as a performer with The Sons of Membertou in January 2025 and I stayed
for 15 days.
(00:58):
This time was a winter at home in summer in Aotearoa.
Though colder than the last time I stepped in Aotearoa, our team made the journey for
the purpose of participating in the ICTDM conference.
Some of us had presentations, workshops, chair responsibilities, and the most exciting
for me was the Sons of Membertou concert.
(01:21):
Both experiences blended into a learning environment that helped me rediscover the importance
of preserving our culture and our language.
While in Aotearoa, I learned of completely different perspectives, cultures, sounds, and
music.
I know now that we need to shape our generation by nurturing our growth instead of gatekeeping
culture and practices.
(01:44):
What guided the learning throughout was a concept of Etuaptmumk, which means "two
eyed seeing" in Mi’kmaq.
This is brought to fruition by Elder Albert Marshall and Murdena Marshall.
This perspective can be seen as an "etic" and "emic" perspective in anthropology or
"insiders" or "outsiders" perspective.
(02:05):
But the significant difference is that Etuaptmumk is focused on Indigenous perspectives
and joining Western perspectives for the common goal of educating and learning together.
With all the gained knowledge and perspectives I gained from my first trip, I enjoyed educating
my colleagues about Māori culture, landscapes, wildlife, and the city of Wellington.
(02:30):
In both trips I had the privilege to be able to partake in a guided tour from Wharewaka Te Aro
which translates loosely to the House of Canoes in Te Aro, in the Māori language.
In this powerful tour we experienced a mini whakatau, which was a welcome ceremony.
We learned through oral storytelling the significance of the Waka, the Canoes, and the history
(02:52):
of the land and the people.
In our first trip, our group shared “The Mi’kmaq Honour Song.”
(03:18):
The honour song speaks to the significance of being L’nu or Mi’kmaq.
The second time the group was largely academics from the ICTMD conference, and they shared
their song, which I believe was inspired from a Caribbean Country.
Only then were we then invited to the space and started the tour of Fare Waka.
(03:40):
Hearing the shared struggles with colonialism in the storytelling had me intrigued
to listen attentively so I could try to point out some similarities in Mi’kmaq and
Māori culture.
I pointed out that our creation stories were pretty similar, where Kluskap was created
from clay, and through lightning much like the people of Aotearoa, among other similarities,
(04:01):
such as a Sky Grandfather and Earth Mother, being the deities that we originated from.
One question I remember being asked in our second tour was that of one of my colleagues
who asked the question, "How is your language thriving?"
Our tour guide explained the history of the Te Reo Māori language revitalization in 1980s,
(04:25):
which led to the creation of language nests.
This inspired our colleague to search for more information on the concept and to learn
more from language nests creators.
This sparked influence from my colleague to pursue the creation of a Mi’kmaw language nest,
which hopefully will become to Unama’ki in the near future.
(04:47):
The conference was a new experience for me, it was my first real conference where everyone
in attendance was well accomplished academics, and was a little nerve wrecking.
Luckily my colleagues were the best mentors, the four of us L’nu from Unama’ki and we supported
each other throughout the conference.
Among the variety of music and cultures that were being proudly displayed, we were the
(05:12):
only Mi’kmaq group in attendance.
The two favourite memories of all the presentations we did were the Sons of Membertou concert, where
we performed for the conference and the Mi’kmaq Culture Workshop.
Being a part of the drum practices, with Sons of Membertou helped me immensely, as many
of the songs we performed on stage we did in practice.
(05:33):
All the songs we performed either have a storytelling element to it or dancing with the
audience like the snake dance and the kojua, which is a Mi’kmaq dance.
Their set list consisted of Sons of Membertou songs, and Mi’kmaw songs shared with Mi’kma’ki
which is the land of Mi’kmaq.
Songs like the Gathering Song, the Eagle Song, the Honor Song, and Mukalaqati, the Mountain
(05:56):
Song.
...
...
(06:24):
All these songs were very well received by the audience, which felt great to my
confidence as this was my first time performing with the group. Jerome and Ruiha
met as at the concert and Jerome actually co-performed with us on
(06:45):
stage, with his Taonga pouro, which beautifully complemented the chants we were performing.
(07:12):
It was amazing to reconnect with Jerome and Ruiha once again. The Mi’kmaq
Cultural Workshop was so fluid and it worked so well, it was amazing to think
that we didn't go by the script at all. Our group had a wonderful chair who was
able to direct questions and talking points to each of us as we all had a
(07:34):
part in teaching the audience of the culture of the Mi’kmaq. Our topics included
the history of the Mi’kmaq, the language, our regalia, instruction and
participating in round dance and kojua dancing, followed by a period of
questions ending with a video of the Mi’kmaw Debertewey Centre being
(07:54):
constructed, which holds artifacts from the Mi’kmaq that have been away from
Mi’kmaki for far too long.
A key part of this experience was listening,
participating and observing the many different cultures of the world that were
(08:18):
at the conference. Such as the performances from different
aboriginal groups from Australia, Indigenous groups from Japan, Europe, North America, Pacific Islands and Aotearoa.
At the opening concert, I sat in the front row and was emotionally overwhelmed with
(08:45):
the powerful performances we've seen on stage. In my first visit to Aotearoa, we had
the opportunity to learn Haka from a talented group of performers. Then this time,
we had the opportunity to see Haka being done by the same group that taught me
before. I couldn't help but smile at the pride and prowess on the stage. Many great
(09:07):
friends were made on this trip, plus reconnecting with some old friends,
created memories and laughter that I'll remember for our lifetime. Both my
journeys to Aotearoa in a way evolved my identity as a L’nu by reinforcing the
importance of cultural exchange, preservation and adaption. Through participative
(09:31):
learning, music and shared traditions, I saw firsthand the power of Etuaptmumk,
Two-Eyed Seeing, in bringing Indigenous and Western perspectives together for a
common goal. Whether through the Māori commitment to Kaitaikitangi, which is the
guardianship of environment, the revitalization of Te Reo Māori with
(09:54):
language nests, or the shared stories of resilience in colonization, I realized
how interconnected our cultures are and how much we can learn from one another.
These experiences have strengthened my resolve to preserve and celebrate
Mi’kmaq culture, language and traditions, while also embracing the evolving
(10:17):
nature of cultural identity in a modern world. I can now see the importance of
nurturing knowledge rather than gatekeeping it, ensuring that future generations
continue to grow while honouring their roots. The friendships and lessons gained
from these trips will stay with me forever. I'll also remember that the best way to
(10:38):
build a better future for education is through openness, connection and a
willingness to learn from others.
Thanks for listening to this episode of Sound Stories, a Centre for Sound
Communities podcast. This show is hosted by research assistants of the Centre
(11:01):
for Sound Communities, a social innovation lab at Cape Breton University. Be sure to
tune into our next episode to hear our classmates discuss another exciting
Centre for Sound Communities project.
[Ukutangi and rattle]
(11:44):
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